#but also they're actively fucking over marginalized groups and have been for a long time now

[catgirlexplosion]

so excited for staff to make a post saying "awwww we're removing more ui features in a continuous effort to fuck up the website in ways nobody likes because we aren't making enough money and people are being so mean to us about it :(((" and immediately have some dipshit try and start a crab day 2 like it's a hallmark movie and they have to get everyone to "Save Our Hellsite! (affectionately)" so staff can continue making shitty changes and being bigoted

[pn-confidential]

Greetings. It has been a while-ish since our last post, however we are now back with quite a long one. Recently- a user who requested to stay anonymous has contacted us with quite a lot of concerning information regarding the behind the scenes and goings on of the plural nest staff team. This post is going to be recapping exactly what we have been told- with very slight formatting alterations for smoother reading.

Please keep in mind that while this post is incredibly long, our longest yet, I believe- it is imperative that you read through the entire thing thoroughly. Especially if you are either a current plural nest member, or are considering joining their server.

Content warning for the following:

Mentions of harassment

Dog piling

Staff misconduct

Predatory relationships/grooming

(Please bare in mind- everything in quotations was taken straight from the user who has informed us)

“ I think a fun place to start would be mentioning that the current owner, QR, never actually applied for staff and as far as I know, never actually passed through whatever vetting processes were in place at the time?

The previous owner, Bari, started acting... Really erratic in their last few months before handing off ownership, due to a lot of emotional stress around the owner *before them,* Polychrome, trying to beg to be let back into the community after being outed as an anti-endo, and trying to blame their bad behavior on a prolonged schizophrenic episode?

QR was a regular user at the time (and pretty new too, I think) and was mini-modding some sort of dispute in #ask-the-staff. Bari saw this, and instead of telling QR off for mini-moding, they... decided they were really impressed by QR's performance as a mini-mod that they just offered QR a position as a real mod on the spot, in front of the public. I'm not sure how QR rose to owner from there, but... Now you know!

I don't know a whole lot about the actual story behind Bari and Polychrome myself, but partner sys did just find the link to Poly's "apology" for their time as an anti-endo and the post where they blamed it on a mental health episode, if that's something that interests you. ”

“ Someone else we have a *lot* of criticisms of that I know is still current staff is aqua system. aqua system is also still currently staff in nest, and they were really regularly touted in the year or so after we stopped posting in the server as holding a pretty consistent "second-in-command" position in the staff. To my knowledge they're still in that position, and tbh their presence has been always been a lot of why I keep deciding Nest still isn't a home I can return to whenever I check to see if it's improved at all over the years.

I do not know if their views on things have improved in the three years since (I certainly *hope* they have, but... We don't actively go out seeking their posts anymore, for obvious reasons!) but I know shortly after they were elected to staff back in 2021, they used to post a *lot* of... Our friend group used to call it "sysmed light" takes. The one that stands out to me the most in my memory is that they believed that traumagenics were marginalized in the plural community by non-traumagenic voices, and they were constantly advocating for people to basically view traumagenics and non-traumagenics as two separate species that just happened to share the same community, rather than encouraging people to come together over our commonalities. I've also got a really CHOICE screenshot of them talking about how "yeah, medicalizing plurality is bad, but plurality is inseparable from DID/OSDD" which is a WILD FUCKING STATEMENT TO MAKE AS A HIGH RANKING MOD OF WHAT WAS THE LARGEST PLURAL DISCORD COMMUNITY AT THE TIME. They also *really, really* liked to talk about how they saw their plurality as a solely negative force in their life and something they feel ruined their future, which is. Also a cool view to have as someone so high-ranking in a community built upon solidarity and pride.

IMG ID: [A message from Shouto of Aqua System reading:

"I think a lot of it is yeah medicalizing all plurality is bad and no plurality is not inherently a bad thing HOWEVER plurality is inseparable from DID/OSDD and those ARE mental disorders and it's not harmful to acknowledge them as such

Not to mention non traumagenics tend to ignore how much trauma can mess and screw with your experience with plurality

We try to look at our plurality positively but it's still hard for me to act like being plural is something amazing and great when our system is traumagenic

plurality like any other neurodivergency such as autism needs to be treated as neutral: neither inherently bad nor good. It just is. For some it's pros outweigh the cons, for others the cons outweigh the pros"] - END ID

Aqua also really, *really* liked traumadumping in non-vent channels. We have a *really strong* memory of our partner system, during their time as a Nest mod, making an @everyone announcement reminding people that vents go in the vent channel, and literally an hour later aqua sys was posting REALLY HEAVY stuff about their exotrauma unprovoked in plural-discussion-1. This is kind of notable, because in a weird way staff accomodating for aqua's need to traumadump in public spaces is a large reason why #traumagenic-discussion exists? My partner system made me privy to a staff discussion where Aqua was. Bitching and moaning that there was a #parogenic-discussion channel, but not a #traumagenic-discussion one, and eventually they whined about it enough that the rest of the staff made it happen!

This is so WILDLY misguided because #parogenic-discussion wasn't created to be a Cool Treehouse for non-traumagenic systems (who... aren't all inherently parogenic, mind you,) it was created specifically to be a place to discuss the *process* of parogenesis, the difficulty and the psychological alchemy of creating a new headmate out of nothing. Pointing at that and going "but why can't traumagenics have one" is SUCH a wild false equivalence, because... If you want a space to talk about the process of traumagenesis, the actual ways in which traumagenic headmates are created, that's cool and valid, but... 90% of it is just going to be people talking about their trauma in a non-vent channel.

Guess what aqua immediately started using it for.

I know my partner sys pretty directly challenged staff on this once upon a time using exactly this argument, and got entirely shut down on the sole argument of "endogenics get their own channel, traumagenics should to." which. again. is not *exactly* how that story happened. ”

“ Which I guess leads me to my next fun story, which is my partner sys getting ganged up on and harassed by the entire rest of staff for... Knowing the history of why the server's staff was structured the way it was, and insisting that minors probably shouldn't be handling potentially volatile bad actors who could post gore and nsfw at them. Lemon and aqua were MAJOR violators in this story, and to my understanding they're *both* currently still nest staff *and* pretty highly ranked.

A long, long time ago, the interview you used to go through to get verified in the server wasn't run by a bot, but it was conducted by a real, live server member acting as a volunteer. It *was* really labor intensive, but it was also a really cool and refreshing experience, since you *immediately* got to have a fun conversation with a community member and have someone express interest in you as a person the moment you walked through the door.

These volunteers all had the "Helper" role, denoting that they were acting in an official capacity for Plural Nest, but were not Moderation Staff (who just had the "staff" role.) Since Helpers weren't expected to perform moderator duties other than passing off any problematic interviews to a *real* moderator, it was a position that was open to users of all ages, whereas staff was explicitly reserved for adults. At some point during the latter end of Bari's time as owner, after they started acting really erratically, there was a major turnover in staff, and all the new staff members were told that helpers were. A lesser tier of moderator, who were more focused on moderating chat and verifications in order to free up the Real Moderators for more pressing issues. Helpers, accordingly, *were* given the same permissions and as regular mods in the server's settings.

My partner system, who had been in nest for two years now and had talked to the old staff that created that system... Pretty clearly knew that was wrong, and were vocal about as much. They made a large argument that, with Nest being as high-profile of a server as it was, they get a *lot* of bad actors who sometimes post gore and nsfw, and make really violent threats towards staff when they don't get their way, and it was *wildly inappropriate* for minors to not only be willingly exposed to that, but *expected to moderate it.* This was not a hypothetical situation they were arguing, this was very much based on experiences *they* had to deal with during their time as staff, *as well as other staff* talking about how harrowing and traumatizing some of the things they were expected to moderate were to them, and then going "By the way my 14th birthday is coming up.”

Everyone was expressing at first that this was sensible and actually agreed that it was something they needed to work on. Aqua system made some wildly out of pocket comment that a lot of their headmates' exomemories as being literal child soldiers made them unable to see what was wrong with the situation, but they also eventually used the same excuse to decide that they were probably going to trigger themselves if they participated in the discussion further and respectfully bowed out. Everything was cool!

Up until about a week-ish later, when my partner system woke up to 6 pings and 500 unread messages in the staff channel basically calling for their head on a fucking pike.

Lemon collective (who, mind, was 13 at the time, just *Barely* above discord TOS age) and one other minor staff member (can't remember which, sorry) had made a post where they essentially went "Hey, we've been rolling this over in our head for the past few days, and we realized we don't actually agree with this ruling and feel like we are being infantilized, and that they didn't understand what changed to suddenly remove these responsibilities from their plate when they were just as capable of performing them before.” Mind... Lemon was one of the examples our partner system brought up when they were talking about other staff members openly commenting about how some of the things they were seeing was damaging to their mental health, so... that's cool.

Bari immediately threw our partner system under the bus, claiming that it was our psys' idea and all complaints should be aimed at them! Bari also made some WILDLY out of pocket comment claiming that our psys was using abuser tactics to get everyone to agree with them, and implying that psys' angle was "if you don't agree with me you're all inherently immoral and problematic”

and thus the mobbing began

Psys wakes up and sees this whole mess aimed entirely at them, and asked for a moment to backread the whole damn thing before saying anything. After taking it all in, they did eventually try arguing their point in good faith and continuing to stand by it, and tried to be empathetic with "I understand your frustration, I remember being 13 on the internet too and feeling like the stupid age gates were stupid age gates, but... I don't think it's appropriate for y'all to be interacting with bad actors posting death and rape threats” To which lemon retorted with something along the lines of "okay cool, still ageist," and. unironically hitting our partner system with a /neg tonetag.

A lot of other users were backing lemon in this fight out of nowhere as well, and going "Yeah, 13 year olds like you who are actively expressing this shit is harming them SHOULD still be allowed to interact with it! Yeah, psys IS being really rude and unprofessional and manipulative about it!�� at which point psys' fronter at the time went "alright. the rest of the sys is probably going to be upset at me for this, but this is such a lost cause and they'll get it." and slapped that big fat "server leave" button. ”

“ Alright, one more story and I think I'm done for now. I don't want to go too in depth about this because A) I haven't. actually talked to the ex-mod affected by this, and B) I just kind of only know the general story beats anyway, but.

Back in 2021, there was a moderator and longtime community member, Abyssal Void, who got outed as being in a predatory adult-minor relationship. One of the other moderators had receipts *from the victim* that this was going on, and it's. Pretty hard to argue with a screenshot that says "don't tell anyone until you're an adult.” Reasonably, receipt-holding mod banned Abyssal on the goddamn spot.

The *entire* rest of staff jumps on receipt-holding mod for this, arguing that receipts mod shouldn't have acted without a discussion or a vote. Receipts mod very explicitly said at one point, "do y'all really want to have a multi-week discussion about an adult and a minor fucking before we do something about this" and *at least three mods said yes, unironically.*

receipts mod was also *denied the opportunity to share the receipts they gathered,* and bari even told receipts mod "hey, you should take a break. For a year. Because you're clearly not fit for mod duty right now” at which point receipts mod said "uh, no actually, i quit" and left server.

If I recall correctly this incident is actually what lead to nest getting *kicked off of plural hubs* back when that space was big and relevant to our community, because it was *so clear* this was a wild mishandling of a very active and dangerous situation. ”

All in all- as you can see, plural nest is a place to be avoided. The constant misconduct and mishandling of situations from staff- all that which has been mentioned in our other posts- and ESPECIALLY the final situation mentioned within this very post, regarding the groomer situation. Which I hope you are all aware- is very much potential lawsuit material, and definitely not some petty internet drama.

IMG ID: [An embed-message from HubBot. It lists Plural Nest as delisted from Plural Hub. The Delist Reasoning reads as follows:

"Due to consistent and recent reports of an unsafe environment, Plural Nest has been delisted, said staff even going so far as to reprimand a staff member for banning a groomer with proper evidence without referring to staff members, and (CW: CSA) asking for farther, more explicit evidence [of] sexual content with the minor, including the minor's identity."] - END ID

------------------------------------------------------

Plural nest is a genuinely dangerous server. One not even worth joining for the morbid curiosity of it all.

Stay away.

( Thank you to @/anti-endos-are-weird for providing the image IDS/alt text for the images )

[solavelyan]

3, 5 & 22 for choose violence!

3. screenshot or description of the worst take you’ve seen on tumblr

lkaj;fdsf god. i think the most recent one was someone speculating on why of all the inquisition love interests, blackwall isn't as popular, and one of their guesses was that people don't like him as much because he's available to dwarves and qunari. as if people are so comically "prejudiced" against dwarves and qunari that the love interests that will fuck them are somehow tainted. that was pretty fucking stupid.

but one of the ones that really stuck with me was someone who said that... if you dislike cullen, you actually hate drug addicts in real life and you're a bad person. as if that's the only reason he might not be your favorite. pffff.

5. worst discord server and why

the one i'm not in anymore. :3

okay but realtalk, i'm not quite high or brave enough to give a specific name, but i will say that i think it's easy for writing-focused discords to get into a sort of feedback loop that it turns out i just really don't enjoy. some of that is definitely me, but i think i have similar feelings to some other people who were on the same servers as i was and left (the feeling of some spaces being a popularity contest, being unsure of how genuine feedback was at any given time because it could feel transactional, just not necessarily vibing with the sort of unspoken preferences of the group wrt canon interpretation/fanon/etc.).

i also just don't like servers that get above a certain member count because they're too active and i feel obligated to read everything and know everything and then i get anxiety lmao. my ideal server size is like... somewhere under 100 people, probably realistically somewhere south of 50. so that's just me.

most of my fannish group activities before 2022 were either just out in the wild on tumblr, or RP circles in IJ, so i had a bit of a discord culture shock after keeping to myself for so long. and i will say that while some people who are loud about being "live and let live" and being open to other people's opinions are being genuine, functionally... yeah, any contained group of people that gets to a certain size is going to start emulating the behaviors of wider fandom, but in ways much more specific to the driving personalities of those servers.

so you end up with some really wild, overly dramatic discussions of "fandom problems" that functionally only affect the 5 people having that discussion and the maybe 3 or 4 other people that got under their skin about it, so you end up with takes like... well, like in my last question, proposing that a straight white man love interest in a fandom historically pretty friendly to straight white men must be unpopular because he's marginalized somehow, and not because his competition was Ex-Templar Fandom Has Been Thirsting Over Since DAO, What the Fuck Do You Mean That's Freddie Prinze, Jr.?, Charismatically Voice Acted Gay Magic Man from Cool Fantasy Rome, and Tragic Elf Man Ianto Jones. people were just not as into burly bearded dilfy types in 2015 as they are now. it's not a mystery, but if your fishbowl is curved enough, it sure looks like one.

22. your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores

oh, this is probably small and silly, but that bit of flavor text at the beginning of Inquisition for the human pc mentions that trevelyan is from a huge family with close ties to the templar order, is the youngest child of multiple siblings, and was expected to go into service to the chantry, either as a templar or in the clergy. i've seen a lot of religious trevelyans, but i rarely see them portrayed as templars or chantry clergy or something. i'm honestly really surprised, given how popular some of the templar npcs are, that we weren't awash in templar ocs during inquisition's heyday.

i don't mind feeling relatively unique (i think i've only seen one or two other templar trevelyans but that's about it), but this is one of those things that always surprises me when i'm the only one rocking up with an ex-templar oc in a given group. they're so interesting! i would totally read someone else's take on the concept.

[ from the choose violence ask meme ]

[rubenesque-as-fuck]

I saw your recent post about jkrowling stuff... Does it really make sense to completely cancel the entire HP franchise because the author supports female women's independent rights, separate from transgendered folks and their personal struggle?

Why do transgendered folks have so much power? Gay people still don't. It's because they're trans women a.k.a MEN. It's WHITE MEN exerting their privilege, power, and control, over you and everyone like you. Just by wearing lipstick. Please girl, wake up! <3

So, I'm going to start with a disclaimer that I'm a little stoned, so pardon me if I ramble. There's... just so much to unpack here. So many very bad ideas and stupid trash ideology, it honestly fucking disgusts me. It's like unpacking a suitcase full of day-old turds, broken glass, and dead frogs. Trans women are women, and trans men are men! Gender is a bullshit social construct, and it is truly that simple!!! It costs you literally nothing to leave other people the fuck alone and let them try to find happiness however they can in this increasingly fucked up world! Which is why it's so fucked up that someone with as much power and influence as jkr would use that power to actively campaign against the rights of trans individuals, as well as plenty of other terrible decisions. So fuck yeah! Cancel HP forever, who cares, see if I give a shit. And take all of her money and give it to organizations that fight for the rights of trans individuals, just for fun.

And yes, gay people have it rough too! How is trying to pit their plight against the plight of another marginalized group helping anyone?? Can't we just agree that people should be allowed to live their lives in a way that makes them happy, as long as they aren't hurting anybody else by doing so?

Also, trans folks of many ethnicities exist?? Not just "WHITE MEN". Or are you suggesting that only white people can't actually be trans? A fascinating concept, to be sure. And what power are they exerting over me, exactly? The power make me leave people alone and let them live their lives in peace, as whatever gender feels the most comfortable to them? The power to make me question the actions of a shitty author, who goes out of her way to do shitty things?

Also!!!

So, honestly, I have no interest in anything you have to say. Please unfollow me, and then walk into traffic. If you've been on my blog for any amount of time, I would have hoped to have made it clear by now that any ideology in line with yours sickens me and there's no place for it here. Go ahead and suck my farts, choke, and die 😘

[fahye]

Single Use Weapon is a fic I always return to, it's so very much my perfect ending for Kings, so I'd love to see a timestamp for it set after Jack takes his place as David's advisor. Maybe an outside POV on what they're like once they don't have to pretend to hate each other, and how they and Michelle rule Gilboa? Or just something about how Jack, Michelle, and David negotiate their new relationship(s) with each other?

The court session had gone an hour longer than anticipated, and Ruth’s back was beginning to ache from standing, alert and watchful, in her place near the door. It wasn’t her job to keep track of the topic on which the king’s cabinet was painfully grinding their way toward a compromise; her job was to watch the room, to read body language, to let everything blur into hard-won pattern recognition where small things would spring out. A scowl. A sudden change of posture. A gun.

It still left a scrap of her mind free to listen. The debate was on maximum terms for crimes related to substance abuse, among other things, and the Minister for Justice and Corrections looked increasingly frazzled each time his sovereign allowed yet one more question from the block of yellow-shirted activists seated near the back of the room.

A movement drew Ruth’s eye. Prince Jack, who for the past two hours had been leaning back in his chair with boredom in his shoulders and nothing identifiable in his eyes, had finally straightened and was leaning in to murmur something to the king, one hand resting with casual entitlement on the king’s arm.

Ruth should probably have tried to think of him as Prince Jonathan, or at least His Highness, now that she had to interact with the man at work. But Ruth had grown up reading the same gossip papers as everyone else, and had lived through and delighted in the glorious story that had been the failed conspiracy against King David and the role that his brother-in-law had played. To the whole of Gilboa he’d been Prince Jack first in fondness, then in contempt, and now in something like wary pride.

The king listened, body swaying easy towards his advisor’s, though his gaze didn’t leave the debate. Then, with a nod, he stood. The room fell silent at once. The king, in a firm voice, declared the end of the session, and asked Minister Morrison to join himself and Ms Cairech for a dinner meeting.

The young woman at the head of the activist group looked surprised to be singled out by name, but she bowed her acquiescence with grace.

Ruth’s shift was over. She wouldn’t be in the meeting room when the prince’s suggestion, whatever it was, played itself out. She didn’t go home, though; she made herself change into workout gear and spend some time in the palace’s basement gym.

An hour later she was sitting on the edge of a bench, wiping her face and trying to make a bargain with herself in regards to cheesecake and another round of lower-body weights, when she realised that the man paused in front of her was–come on, Ruth, make an effort–Prince Jonathan of Gilboa.

He was wearing the same black gear as most of the off-duty soldiers and guards in the gym. He didn’t quite blend in, given his almost obnoxious good looks and the way he held himself, but he came close.

“You’re new, aren’t you?” the prince said to her.

“Ruth Alpert, sir. Started last month.”

His voice dropped. “Nancy recommended you.”

Prince Jack’s eyes were uncomfortable, this close. Nancy had told her that the prince could be depended on, in a pinch; that if Ruth stumbled across anything that should be known, she could take it to him without fear.

(“He’s a good man, then?” Ruth had asked.

Nancy had barked a laugh. “Good? Fuck, no, girl. But he doesn’t need to be.”)

“Yes. The Minister of Information is an old friend of my father’s,” was all Ruth said.

She wondered now if Nancy had said anything about her, Ruth, to Prince Jack, the most high-profile homosexual person in the country.

Attitudes could be slow to budge. Ruth wasn’t exactly telling anyone. She’d thrashed and been thrashed enough, growing up, to realise that something about her was a silent signal, to those who were looking. But she was keeping her mouth shut on the subject until the idea of being honest about it didn’t feel like walking around with the safety off her gun.

Though one of the palace pastry chefs had gorgeous dark hair and had begun to seek Ruth out to make her taste new confections, and sometimes Ruth met her smile with her own and let herself think, maybe…

For now, she was the first female member of the king’s personal security force. If she still ached a little from the length of her shifts–longing, guiltily, for something to happen that would require her to move–then she was constantly bruised with the effort of not reacting to the glances. The offhand comments. The jokes made just within deniable range of her ears.

Ruth could only afford to be one kind of anomaly at a time. She’d get a handle on this one first.

“Tape your hands, Ruth Alpert,” the prince ordered, startling her. “I’m in the mood for some exercise. Unless you’re already too tired?”

He fell exactly nowhere in Ruth’s chain of command–he couldn’t be commanded by anyone, in fact, which was the whole damn problem with him, according to Captain Gerritz–but his voice was easy with authority. There was no possibility of refusal. Besides, the ache in Ruth’s back had already stiffened itself with pure indignation at the cool glance accompanying the word tired. Which had been, she realised, once she’d done taping and was facing off against him on the mat, the point.

He was a quick fighter. They were both army trained, and Ruth’s extra dose of King’s Guard style balanced out what she quickly recognised as special-ops dirtiness in his own. She couldn’t spare any of her mind to drift beyond the fight. It took her nearly ten minutes to realise that she was, although only marginally, better than he was.

She met his eyes, in a moment of harsh-breathing pause. Prince Jack grinned at her. He’d realised it first.

Ruth let herself grin back, shook the ringing from her head where his elbow had struck it, and set herself to winning.

When she’d pinned him for long enough, and when she released him, the prince rolled onto his back and gazed at the ceiling, breathing hard and with an edge that was nearly laughter. Ruth was exhausted enough that she stayed down as well, head hanging, resting her weight on knees and an aching wrist. Her pulse pounded in her ears. When it began to settle, she realised that there was near-total silence in the gym.

She lifted her head. Standing at the edge of the mat, also clad in military blacks and with a smile on his face, was King David.

“Your Majesty,” said Ruth, trying to decide what else to do given that she was already kneeling. Probably nothing. She liked the king a lot. She already knew he was unlikely to insist on ceremony at a time like this.

“Nicely done, Alpert,” the king said.

“Thank you, sir.” It struck Ruth suddenly that an entire active shift’s worth of her colleagues, and a good chunk more of the off-duty ones in the gym, had just seen the king’s newest guard beat the king’s most dangerous advisor to the mat, in fair combat, and keep him there.

“It’s not fair,” the prince murmured from beneath her, only just loud enough to reach her ears. “But sometimes we have to show what we can do, and we have to do it better than anyone else.”

Ruth wiped sweat from her forehead. “I know,” she said, and put out a hand and hauled him to his feet as she stood.

“No, Jack, you stay where you are,” said the king. He accepted strapping tape from McKean, who was closest to him, and began to tape his own hands. “This is ideal. I think Alpert’s worn you out enough that I might actually have a chance.”

Nobody else in the gym was going back to their weights or treadmills after this. All eyes were greedy on the mat at the prospect of watching this particular bout.

Only Ruth, stepping out of their way, was close enough to see the way Prince Jack’s face altered when he met the king’s eyes: the quick gleam of sharpness and warmth that the king met with his own smile, a code passing between them that required no touch on the arm and no words at all, just something that made Ruth’s heart catch in her chest; a maybe collapsing into yes.

[fatphobiabusters]

1. While fat folks may not get shot by police simply for being fat, you'll find a lot of marginalized groups don't suffer that affliction. Almost as if you can't base everything off one form of oppression or something....

2. Fat folks are in fact treated as children and looked down upon for being fat!! Shows how much you care abt oppressed groups.

3. Fat people are denied jobs every fucking day you nitwit!!! This one truly shows you've never once looked at the problems fat folks face. The only state in America who prevents discrimination based off size is Michigan. Check your privilege

4. Fat people get forced into unsafe situations by medical personnel all the damn time. Fat folks are refused treatment based off weight, we're forced into getting our organs amputated ffs. We don't have bodily autonomy the way slim folks do.

5. When fat people are raped we're told to be happy somebody wanted to have sex with us. Pls shut your mouth forever, fat people who have survived SA don't want or need to hear you.

6. As a fat indigenous person, WHAT. Just because I'm not you, colonization doesn't count??? Indigenous people, who if you recall are still being colonized to this day, are fat and treated badly by medical personnel. We were seen as fat and lazy by Europeans (they had no problems raping our women though 🤷🏽‍♀️). Literally please stop talking out of your ass, you look stupid.

7. Fat immigrants exist???? Your point missed entirely. Fat people are still fleeing war torn countries the same as skinny people, and yknow what else?? Slim people are more likely to be allowed to flee bc most countries consider being fat a health condition and won't take you.

8. This one is true, however in the modern world very few people aren't allowed to vote. As I'm sure you know, the fight for equality has been long and winding and unequal, so I guess my point is this: would you like to ban voting for fat folks so we can fight for the right back?? Would that make you feel better???

9. Right to love, hmmm...while I can't speak for all fat folks, I know as someone who isn't straight or cis this affected me. As it would any other fat person who isn't straight or cis?? Fat gay people exist Katherine!!

10. Above all remember fat people can be anyone. Black, indigenous, queer, disabled, mentally ill, etc. We can be anyone, can come from anywheres, have any struggle a thin person has. But we're also fat, and that affects how each thing that happens to us.

You say our biggest problems are 'not being considered attractive and not fitting into seats' which is a gross understatement of what fatphobia is about. If you pulled your head from your ass you could see this, but considering you don't realize fat people can be non white or disabled, I don't have faith in you.

You say that our health problems are caused by weight alone. Just wondering where you got your MD?? Tell me where exactly you decided you know more abt our own selves and bodies than we do?? I can assure you, as many many many other fat folks can, my health issues are not caused by or a symptom of, being fat. You don't get to decide that as a literal stranger on the internet lmfao.

You seem to have a very serious problem with anyone not exactly like you dealing with oppression. It's honestly a really sad worldview, nobody is going to be like you exactly, but everyone has problems and everyone is allowed to talk about them. They're allowed to use activist language because they are activists!!! And even if they weren't, you don't own activism and activism words and phrases.

You're acting like a child, refusing to acknowledge oppression you think is deserved. Get over yourself, read some fat liberation literature, drink some tea, and rethink why you hate fat people this much

Mod squirrel: btw it's documented that if a fat person dies in police custody due to police violence, cops will try to blame the victims weight for death and not the torture.

Also I'm a broken record but weight is genetic and the majority of diets fail. Fat people aren't all fat for "over eating" stop being a clown.

if i hear one more fucking HAES "activist" co-opting language used by actually oppressed groups im gonna S C R E A M

[invinciblerodent]

Hey, why is it that making a character bi when they're straight is good, and when the reverse happens it's bad? Feel free not to answer if people have been stressing you out with this, but, I'm a pansexual male and I don't really understand why installing for example bi sera mods out of convenience is bad. My friend said its gross but wouldn't it all be gross? Thanks in advance. (Not trying to imply anything, just confused, I am not going to install bi sera mods)

I feel like I should add a reaction image here just to break up the monotony of the text, but I don’t think there is one in my library that would accurately represent what I’m thinking.

Okay. This has been talked about for years at this point, and not to be rude, but if you’re still confused, it’s because you have been either not paying attention, or are actively avoiding the topic. You are asking me to redo the emotional labor that has already been done, by people much more qualified than I am, and is readily available if you just take the time to look for the answer to your questions.

But, I realize that not everyone has been around for the past few years, so I’ll give you the benefit of a doubt, and I’ll try my best to explain it in a concise manner. I’m still not an asshole.

(Full disclosure, I say these things as a white, bisexual cis woman whose long term partner is a white, straight cis man. I experience just about as many privileges as a queer person possibly can, and I highly recommend you look into the thoughts and work of creators of color, and the people who are most harmed by this specific issue. This has not been spoken of for a while now so they may be deep within people’s blogs, but if you really care about the answer, you can spare the ~hour or so that it will take to hunt down enough sources to form an understanding. It’s not my job to do your research for you, I’ll just give a summary of it.)

The simplest way I can describe it is with a somewhat clunky metaphor I’ve read about this like a year ago.

Imagine that you have a plate of cookies. Those are all the instances m/f love is seen in media, all the prince charmings and lovely princesses, all the cartoons, games, movies, books that feature a romantic subplot between a male and a female protagonist. Take away one or two, chances are, you don’t even notice that they are gone. You don’t care, you still have enough.

Now imagine that you have one or two cookies. Those are all the instances openly LGBT+ identities are shown in mainstream media. It’s only a few, but it is all you have. And if you must go hungry for someone else to have one more cookie, you will notice.

I don’t like to liken identities to food, but this is the most straightforward way to say it that I can think of.

The thing about the bi Sera and bi Dorian mods in particular (and tbh I find it rather gross to call those mods “bi mods”, they’re more like “availability mods”, they don’t make them bisexual, they just make them romantically available for player characters of another gender) is simply that, unlike mods making originally straight characters somehow LGBT+ (which does not, in any way, undermine the heteronormativity of mainstream media, and especially the shockingly homophobic and sexist boys’ club that the AAA video game industry can be), it is not creating representation where there is none. It is taking away already existing representation with the intent of making SGA characters attracted to genders they normally would not be attracted to.

It’s not created with the intent of carving out a place in which you could see yourself. It’s created because you were told “no”, and you can’t take rejection.

Remember, if you don’t think representation matters, it is because you are already represented.

Those characters are already part of a marginalized group, a sexual minority if you will, and it is part of their identity- which is especially important to people who identify with those characters. The existence of a character like Sera, who is a fully realized lesbian with a happy ending and an actual character arc not revolving around her sexuality, in a big budget AAA game, can be especially important to people who identify as lesbians. Dorian, a gay man whose story actually deals with issues related to his sexuality, is also especially important to people who may have experienced the same- being told by guardians, people they have loved and respected, that who they are, who they love, is an imperfection to be changed.

To put it simply, bi mods for already marginalized characters take away representation from the groups they were created for. And that’s especially gross in the case of mods like bi Sera, bi Dorian (and somewhere down the line I’m SURE there’s gonna be bi Gil and bi Suvi, and at that point all hell will break loose again) because it echoes what so many gay- and lesbian-identifying people have heard over and over their whole lives: That you must conform. You must enter an other sex relationship to be good enough. You must make yourself accessible to me, specifically me, for me to love you and accept you. Who you are is imperfect; let me fix you. (And let’s not even go into implications of conversion therapy, corrective r*pe, the fucking Russian concentration camps for gay men, and all those other delectable issues that are still present in the year of our lord 2017, because I’m SO not qualified to talk about any of this- really, fkin google it. There are so many excellently written articles just within this community, it’s really not hard to find.)

“Bi mods” are not creating representation for us bisexuals. It’s telling gay men and lesbian women that they are not good enough, that they must change, and they must conform to be worthy of romantic love, because someone who claims to love them cannot be assed to make their fictional avatar of the gender that they are attracted to. It’s hurtful, and damaging, and a disgusting mistreatment of not just the characters, but the people they represent.

You see where I’m going with this? Doing the same to a straight character, while I personally don’t intend to do it because I have no problem playing a character whose gender identity is not the same as mine (for others it may trigger feelings of gender dysphoria, or any number of unpleasant feelings, so really I get it), is coping. It’s clawing out a small, imperfect place for yourself where there was none. It does not harm or affect straight people, it does not tell them that they must change to be loved.

Context in this specific issue is key. You can’t just take the whole thing out of the sociocultural environment in which it exists. You cannot examine these things in a vacuum, take them by the numbers, and just ignore all the times LGBT+ people have seen, and heard, and experienced the same rejection before.

Bi mods for gay characters are made because you can’t take it when you are told “no”.

Bi mods for straight characters are made because sometimes all the representation you can get is what you make for yourself.

There is a goddamn profound difference.

[ace-oppression]

While I'm here, about the list at the top:

1. In a 2017 UK study of 108,000+ people, the community with the highest percentage of people who had been pushed toward, or into, conversion therapy, was aces. Not bi, pan, or gay/lesbian folks, whose rates ranged from 5.2-7.6%. Aces, who experienced this shit at a rate of 10.3%.

Aces faced as many threats of "physical or sexual harassment or violence" at work as gay, bi, and pan people did; only slightly less verbal harassment; and had the lowest percentage of people who didn't experience any kind of harassment, exclusion, assault, etc. at work.

In a 2015 study of 150,000+ American college and graduate students, aces and bisexuals consistently had the highest rates of harassment, stalking, nonconsensual touch, and assault.

I could go on. We face plenty of the same issues.

2. Every time aces and aros try to create positivity tags, culture tags, and other community spaces, the spaces are invaded by exclusionists harassing them. It has repeatedly gone as far as posting dead bodies or porn in the tags and sending them to people directly.

I would argue that the point of the overall community is that the different groups pool our resources and support each other, so more marginalized groups have more resources. But it rarely works like that anyway.

3. ...aces who are those things aren't LGBT, they're LGB, but anyway

4. This is true in the sense that we center those groups and ignore the higher rates of, for example, poverty and assault and suicidality in the bi, pan, and ace communities, and of medical abuse around gender and sexuality in the intersex community, and the incredibly higher rates of EVERYTHING for all people of color in the communitu.

But saying it proudly and loudly is like saying, "I'm an ignorant person who doesn't give a fuck about anybody who I don't already think is like me."

5. The fuck it does. oh my God, when will exclusionists stop repeating lies over and over trying to turn them into facts. I'll give fifty bucks to anyone who can find an organization that says the expanded acronym is lesbian, gay, bi, trans, nonbinary, questioning, and pansexual. This is just a fancy way of pretending that ANYONE has ever used "LGBTPN".

6. It was our community's word before the straights used it as a slur. They have a long history of using any word for us as a slur. The fact that something describes us automatically makes it an insult in their eyes.

Let's not pretend. You use LGBT if you want to make it clear that you only mean those four (technically three) groups. Or sometimes gay, as an umbrella term - which it isn't, and it's been very actively used as a slur for decades, and yet we're not supposed to avoid using it lest we accidentally call a trans woman gay or include somebody who was gay-bashed every day at school.

You use queer if you want to be inclusive. That's why people hate it. That's why terfs have been pushing back against the term for years, and why they write editorials on AfterEllen about it being bad for lesbians and whatever.

There's not a person out there who advocates against the word "queer" who isn't also trying to say that some group - usually some or all trans, bi, and pan people, along with aces and aros - doesn't belong.

7. This stuff about the roots of "pansexual" isn't true. People make the same claim about the term "bisexual" - that it has transphobic roots, because it implies that there are only two genders! People are just very eager to try to paint MGA people as transphobic, I guess.

Bi means you're attracted to more than one gender, which can include being attracted to all genders. The term pansexual arose in the 90s, when nonbinary genders started to become visible within the trans community. It was a way that some people indicated that they were open to those genders too.

There are no terms for sexual orientations that arose out of transphobia.

8. Agreed, weirdly.

9. mogai literally stands for marginalized orientations, genders, and intersex people. OP has made the lack of support for intersex people pretty clear, I guess (and: reminder that 75% of intersex people include intersex in LGBTQ+) but it seems pretty foolish to claim not to support marginalized genders and orientations.

I assume OP means something offensive like, "I support nonbinary people, as long as they only use the terms that I approve of." Because that's the kind of support we all need, amirite?

Oh, and again, the fuck it does. In this case: the fuck "nonbinary" only means agender and bigender people.

This entire part basically says, "There are more than two genders: there are also people who are both genders, or neither! (But anything that isn't basically still two genders is bullshit that I don't support.)"

Like I said: OP has really just written a pretty rainbow manifesto saying, "Aces, aros, and a lot of trans, bi, and pan people, don't belong." The trans, bi, and pan stuff is just slightly subtler.

10. Jesus, for a cis person, OP certainly wants to dictate a lot about how trans people are allowed to be.

11. Literally everyone agrees with this, jesus fucking christ. This isn't a discourse topic.

12. for someone who wants to punch terfs, op sure repeats a lot of the same talking points they do. aces aren't LGBT, these random sections of trans people aren't real, you shouldn't say "queer," the community is for same-gender attraction... the only big difference is that OP actually believes that half the trans community or so is real.

alright sisters allow me to clarify my stances on lgbt discourse!!!

Asexuals and Aromantics are valid, but they should NOT be lumped in with the LGBT community. The reason for this is because we do not face the same struggles as one another.

I think having an Asexual/Aromantic community that is seperate from the LGBT community is a great idea! That way, Asexuals get the inclusion and the ressources they deserve while not “invading” LGBT spaces.

Asexuals who are Homo/Bi/Panromantic ARE LGBT, but not for their asexuality (and vice-versa with Aromantics).

The LGBT community is for people who experience same gender attraction and/or are transgender.

The full acronym is LGBT, or LGBT+. The “+” stands for Pansexual, Questioning, and Non-Binary individuals.

The word “queer” was initially used as a slur towards gay people, and while some LGBT folks have reclaimed it, a lot of us (including me) are not comfortable with it. It’s better to say “The LGBT community” than “the Queer community”.

Pansexuals are LGBT+, since they experience same gender attraction, but it is undeniable that the roots of Pansexuality (people who say that being attracted to transgender people is being pansexual) are somewhat transphobic. (EDIT: No, Pansexuality is not transphobic in and of itself. The ROOTS of pansexuality are transphobic. Pan people aren’t inherently transphobic. You guys need to stop putting words in my mouth and saying that im saying that being pansexual equates to being a transphobe.)

The split-attraction model (ex. Aromantic Homosexual or Panromantic Bisexual) works for some people and doesn’t for others, but it ultimately isn’t harmful so let people use it if they want to.

There are more than two genders. Non-Binary is an umbrella term to describe Bigender and Agender people. Although i support non-binary people, i do NOT support MOGAI.

I try to get involved as little as possible in the dysphoria discourse, as i am cisgender and my opinion is irrelevant on the topic. However, i believe that you must experience some degree of dysphoria in order to be trans.

MAPs are pedophiles and are most certainly NOT LGBT+.

I will punch a TERF if i ever see one.

And that’s the tea for today, happy LGBT history month y’all!!