#but also lol to the antis (thinking about that fic and twitter user) using this as ‘Leia walking around eggshells with jay'

[bosesmikas]

Jeia + looks of love (pt 9)

[olderthannetfic]

TW Suicide. I talk about suicide from a religious perspective, and religion is not kind with suicide.

I might be reaching but I think religious Asian countries might be more proship-friendly than western countries??

Let's see a few cases. Japan. I'm not sure how religious Japan is, but they have very strict values and traditions. There are so many how-tos and even the language has levels that you can only use to certain people, otherwise it's rude. They can't express queerness so freely that yaoi/yuri is the best outlet they have, and they got called rotten for it.

Japan is notorious for being very proship friendly. There was even a huge "what is proship and why should you block those with 'proship DNI' in their bios" thread over on Twitter and it was so widely shared by Japanese users. At that point, even antis took off the "proship DNI" off their bios (such cowards lol).

The people in my religious (Muslim) country and its neighbor, Malaysia and Indonesia, even the minors, are so proship-oriented that I only ever saw exactly one person with "proship DNI" in their bio. And their posts tell me they're the more "liberal" people of the country. You know, the ones that the older people are using as examples of "Look at that girl. She's been poisoned by the western values, she's showing so much skin. Don't be like her". Now I obviously will just laugh at older people who says such things but hear me out.

The people who are actually practicing religion to the point where nothing sexual is allowed, who WILL screech at sex (both vanilla and kinky) in fanworks should they ever join, won't touch fandom with a ten-foot pole. This leaves us with the absolute freaks who thinks "I'm religious, I believe in God that other people call fiction, but I can't have sex until I'm married and masturbation is haram, so smut fic is actually a great way to let off tension! No one real is having sex so it's a green area. I'm not masturbating, I'm just reading. Sometimes they excite me, most of the time not! Halal mode."

Also, murder and suicide is a sin. A huge sin. If you tell someone to kill themselves and they actually did, the religious guilt would be MASSIVE. I can't imagine an actually correctly-practicing religious sending death threats and not be haunted by the promise of a sin. A sin that involves other people is much harder to forgive (it requires forgiveness from the hurt people, and that's impossible with suicide. They can't forgive you if they're dead) than a sin that involves yourself (masturbation. All you have to do is regret and never do it again. Which is why suicide is seen as unforgiveable. You can't undo it).

So, it sometimes makes me wonder that in the west, MAGA catholic conservatives shares a lot of values with fanpols. But in religious countries, the actually rigid religious ones aren't in fandom, so the fandom is filled with people who aren't evangelical purists.

This incoherent yap might be reaching, but hey, a new perspective to US-Europeans or non-religious people. It's just kinda funny to think about. Since you are very well-spoken and critical (I think so from your replies to the asks!), what do you think?

--

Well... I think there are a lot of specifics here that are hilarious in how you've framed them. (The situation with queer people in Japan has evolved a lot over the last couple of decades. That isn't at all how I'd describe politeness levels in language, and I think your assumptions based on how politeness works in Japanese are ludicrous. Catholicism isn't the big, powerful flavor of Christianity in the US, so it's not where the majority of the nutbars ruining politics come from. Etc. Etc.)

But back in the 90s in US fandom in English, slash was the domain of freaks, and the puritywankers were openly homophobic and did not hang out in the same spaces.

Yes, I do think that part of the rise of the current flavor of antis has to do with somewhat wider acceptance of queerness combined with an overall anxiety-inducing and uncertain situation. They're not secure enough to chill the fuck out, but they wrongly believe that our battles for queer rights here are done and/or that they can be won by throwing the freakier members of the community under the bus.

[keagan-ashleigh]

✨HIIIIIII newcomers from Twitter✨

So, on Twitter I've seen a screenshot of a tumblr post with a whole list of rules that are - I'm sorry for using crude words but - bullshit, for the most part. So I was thinking, hey. Why not make a "how does tumblr works" with actually useful stuff in it. A non exhaustive list though, cause I haven't all night.

Introducing myself quickly first: I'm Keagan, I'm on Tumblr since 2012 (Twitter user since 2013), I have seen the best and the worst, I've been there for the first mishapocalypse, the great Sherlock s4 depression, and I was here when dicks and boobs where roaming the website freely and when the anti-boobs bot flagged everyone randomly. I took a sort of sabbatical after 2017 bc of the Sherlock depression, and the fandom kinda falling apart, and also bc I have a irl life that started to get interesting around that time, but I still came back regularly from time to time until now.

I know how this goddamn website works and I know why we call it the blue hellsite. I've been here since the dawn of ti- no, lol, i'm joking. :')

I started off as an aesthetic blog, then it quickly turned into a social justice/aesthetic/spn fandom blog, and this blog you see this post in is my fandom side blog, the one that saw the birth of my Sherlock obsession and the beginning of my fanartist/fanfic writer carreer. This hellsite saw my queer awakening. It saw me bloom and gain in confidence and self love. It taught me love, patience, pain, and the absurd.

So. Now that's done, let's go. Those are random things in no particular order.

In case you worry about Tumblr being very different than Twitter: yes it is different but surprisingly it's actually not that different.

Any of the following points, you will figure out easily anyway by yourself, Tumblr is actually pretty simple to understand and use, and you'll catch on quickly on the little things that makes it Tumblr, the "etiquette" and all.

For the most part: you can do whatever the fuck you want, no one cares (except dumb people I guess). But do we truly need to remind people not to be assholes with others ? Don't be rude. Duh

- One thing that Tumblr post I was talking about got right is: likes don't matter in terms of visibility, reblogs are more important. Likes are a comment more than a booster. So if you want to boost a posts' visibility, esp art and fics : reblog it.

- On the other hand you won't gain much visibility if you don't get people to reblog you, and honestly while existing here is pretty easy, you'll still have better chances at being visible if you reach people. I'm on a lot of SM and here is still the easiest though so don't worry.

- You can definitely scream into the void, like, it was made for it, this is shitpost paradise

- You can add dumb & insignificant comments to posts like "omg same" or "this is so true" - literally no one cares.

- And no one cares how you call your mutuals, moots, oomfies, pals, friendz, besties, mutts, - no one.

- We do use tone indicators here too. And there's plenty room to write the full words so it's not an obligation but a suggestion from me: sometimes it's less confusing to just say "i'm half joking" than /hs.

- But you can shorten words as you like, it doesn't matter. If twitter got you used to shorten words do shorten words, no worries.

- Your Tumblr experience is closely tied to who you choose to follow or block - you can curate your dashboard/timeline just like you do on Twitter, this is pretty similar. You can and should protect yourself from unsafe people anywhere. That's basic internet safety. Don't overthink this please, if someone is making you feel unsafe and bad, it is your place: block people.

The moderation here is not that bad but not ideal. So please use all the ways you need to make this place safe for you, and don't hesitate to call for people's help. This is a social media based on community. Don't let people trick you into thinking you are wrong for blocking people - or for calling unsafe people out. We have always done that here. We protect and support each other, ok? Good.

- You can follow hashtags, pretty much like on Instagram. In my opinion it's not always working well but you can.

- You can't bookmark posts, you'll have to put in your drafts the stuff you want to check later. And you'll likely forget them there so tell them goodbye as you go.

Eheh 🥲 (good thing i don't know how many tweets i have saved for later 😂)

You can make yourself a "read later" tag too. A tag that you're likely never gonna check either 🥹 Not so different than the Twitter bookmarks, you see.

- When you sign in, you create your main blog. The main blog - consider it like your account if you like - is linked to your profile, if you delete the main blog you delete your profile. You can create as many side blogs (side accounts) as you like (without using another email) and you can delete them without deleting your main account.

Sadly you still can't switch main blog and side blog to link your profile to a side blog, which I have been screaming for since this side blog became my main blog years ago 🥲🤌 this is my own "make tweets editable" cry

- If you're not familiar with blogs and how to personalise them, don't worry, there's a lot of themes you can choose that are simple to use, and the hardest thing you'll have to do is choose colors you like. If it looks hard, there is a ton of resources to help you, and most people will help you if you ask them (I will, honestly don't hesitate to hit the ask button).

Note that you do not have to touch it actually, it's just like your living room, some like it carefully decorated, others leave it at its most basic form, still usable. There is no obligation whatsoever. It's fun though.

If you like coding, you can edit the blog's code or make your own theme, which is pretty cool, I've learned some html modifying mine.

- You can ask stuff, anonymously or not, hitting the ask button on people's blogs. They will answer by a post, they can make it public. There is also a private direct messaging thingy.

- Tags work similarly than Twitter, meaning if you click on "#spn" you will see all things tagged spn - simple. There is some sorts of trends though it's not exactly the same as Twitter obviously.

But they are different in the sense that they serve also for organisational purpose: they are used to identify what's in the post, so that you can navigate blogs more easily. It's more like labelling your Tupperwares so you find them easily in your kitchen, you know what I mean ? The tags are also labels. The tagging system is also important when you set your blog up. You can put tags in the post but that's useless, the tag section is there for it.

- You can check on my blog (on web not app) to visualise it: you can add tabs and pages to your blogs: for example, let's say you want people to find your fanfics easy: you tag all your fanfic posts "fanfic"; on web, when you click then on the tag from your blog, you will have an url with "tagged/fanfic" at the end, you take that and when you create a new page on your blog (it's well explained how to do that in the settings), you use that url to create your tab. Sounds a bit complicated, just said like that, maybe but I promise it's simple. So you see the tagging system is useful to organise your blog.

You can also make pages to add information, like you would do with a carrd or a pinned tweet, you see. (You can pin a post here too). You can make it an "about me" page, or a list of your main tags, etc, whatever you like.

- Side note about tags: if you click a tag from your dashboard, you'll see all posts linked to this tag. If you click the tag from your blog, you will see all the posts you have reblogged or written - the ones that are present on your blog.

- You can communicate stuff in the tags, it's a whole extra expression space. Typically people use it to add comments they don't want people to reblog, personnal additions, remarks, rants, jokes, etc... There is no rule about not commenting whatever you like on posts but that extra space is often used for all kind of reasons.

The only thing is that back then the op wasn't notified for tags, it was pretty much a silent thing betweet you and your followers, now you can see all of them in the post's notes and notifications. So beware what you say, obviously don't be rude, and don't be alarmed if people answer to your tags, it's not so silent and discreet anymore. I kinda like reading people's tags on my posts but I prefered when mine weren't visible by everyone, to be honest lol

There is a character limit on tags, you can't actually add essays but you can write a lot (trust me). And as the comma and quotation marks "activates" the tag and separates them you can't write commas and quotation marks in the tags - I personally replace them with - or ; and ' when needed. It's something to get used to.

- Again on tags: typically, you put trigger warnings in the tags (though you'll see often posts starting with the tw, you can add both, just add them I guess), you can specify "personal" and "don't reblog" to warn people you'd like a cup of tea /i . And, not everyone does it but personally I appreciate when people tag the spoilers and specific themes, shows, characters or ships, so I can hide the posts marked with that tag.

- When tags are blocked you can still see the masked post show up in your dash, with its tags visible, which honestly is perfect bc you often get context in case you want to block words in certain contexts and not others, and if you block stuff momentarily (like spoilers) - you can still save the post to read it later without having to do it with your eyes closed.

- About discourse : of course there's discourse here, there's call out posts too, there's shit and obnoxious people just like everywhere else, don't come here with the idea that it's a heavenly place where everything is pretty and safe from all things annoying. There's discourse here too. There's bullying here too. About all sorts of subjects. (I've seen the queer slur discourse here like DAYS ago). There's shitty people here too. That's internet, contrary to what a certain post said, that's unescapable. And sure that's annoying but that's a fact of life - now you can shield yourself as much as possible by blocking people but honestly don't expect your experience to be way way different than Twitter in that aspect. Maybe less right wing old dudes bc Tumblr doesn't host the same démographic, though there was a nazi problem for a while, I don't know if they're still here tbqh, but that's overall not much much better, let's be honest.

- On your left, old time resident mr Neil Gaiman - but he answers "wait and see" to everything. /j

- Speaking of celebs, there isn't as many on Tumblr (it's said some have secret blogs but shhh 🤫), but there is often ask & answer events that are announced at the top of the dash.

- You won't be penalised for using certain words (even die or dead, the "unalive" wave doesn't crash on this shore), and you can put links if you like, even cashapp, kofi, paypal, etc, there's virtually nothing that will make you invisible in people's dashboards.

The only way you'll get shadowbanned here is if the Tumblr bots think you're a bot or a porn blog. Learn more here.

- But until recently, sorry there's a but, since the great "no tits" debacle, there's a bot that flagged your nuddity posts and it was so hilariously flawed omg (it flagged fucking DUNES I will never forget ahah) - anyway when they flag your post they hide it and you can make an appeal if needed, but honestly I don't think as much problem occured with it since a long while, that thing improved with time and the good thing is you can post artistic tits again! o/ yay

- There's virtually no character limit - there is one, but you'll need to write a long time until you hit it lol (I did once).

- Therefore : threads don't mean the same here. Here threads are successions of multiple people's comments. It makes for some interesting (and often hilarious) participative posts. Because there is no need here to cut your text into small posts, unless you are writing your memoirs or some shit. Look how much I've written already. 🫲Twitter could never. And if posts are long, you can add a "read more" button so it doesn't mean you have to scroll through gigantic blocs of text in your dash. and in the settings you can make long posts look shorter in your dash automatically.

- Related: threads aren't the same, you can't reblog/retweet a post that's in the middle of a thread. I mean, on Twitter you can RT the 1st tweet of the thread, or the 3rd, RT a reply easily - and in your TL only this one tweet appears - you can't really do that here. First of all here there is comments (or captions) and replies, those are not the same. If you want to reblog someone's comment to a post, you'll have to reblog it from their blogs - doable but honestly a bit tedious. And you will always reblog the last answer and all the ones that comes before. You reblog whole conversations, see.

So when you scroll through dash, you WILL experience mini heart attacks when seeing the 1st lines of some posts until you see the arguments that are closer to your moral standards - meaning you'll often see posts that are "shitty comment" then ten replies until you see the ones that says "wtf, it's shitty" - you need to endure the whole thing until you see stuff you agree with ahah, trust me this is FUN

- Here you don't livetweet, you liveblog. Otherwise it's the same. I'm sad I can't do both at the same time but it's equally fun on twitter and tumblr, especially for ESC.

- Like Tumblr said on Twitter: if you scroll your dash long enough you will have seen all of your friends posts. Yes.

- You can make your experience a lot better with the New XKit extension. Explaining it would take a whole ass post of its own so I'm not going to do that here but they have an account here where they explain everything, give updates and answer questions. I can only suggest to give it a look once you're familiar with how Tumblr works without it and with what doesn't work well.

- You can edit posts. You can schedule posts. Take it in 😌

You can edit them and actually - WOW - civilisation hasn't collapsed and bad people still can be held accountable for their shitty comments! Like on Facebook and Instagram too. Let it happen on Twitter, let it be the one good thing that'll happen amidst that awful chaos.

There's a twist though: you can edit your post, sure, but if someone reblogged the post before you could edit it, there will be two versions of your post in the wild. It can be a little bit frustrating. One way to avoid that: let your big and important posts sit in the drafts for a while so you can fix it before publishing it. An advice I never seem to follow.😬

- You can also change text size, font, put it in bold, italic, colour, you can make it gradiant like in Skyblog's most glorious hours, etc, and yes you can put alt text on pictures. You can add links or pictures in the middle of a post - I mean those are blog posts, so 🤷‍♀️

- The app is shit though ☆(ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ* (to be fair not as much as a few years back, honestly, but still, not ideal)(I'm using the app 🥲)

- And you can't translate posts easily, which tbh I think is a big flaw

- Tumblr is flawed but fun and it can be better, the updates are always shit, but it has well intentions and a nice staff.

I guess there's a lot of other stuff to say but honestly we've covered the main things to know and more. All the "rules" and "etiquette" you will learn as you go, Tumblr is no rocket science, it's simple and fun, it's a meme goldmine, great community experience. There's not real rules, you can use that site however you want, no one cares, nothing is serious, have fun, don't let people gatekeep this place with bs rules, build your space as you like, make it look like you. Welcome 👋

Edit: here is a post giving a tour of the settings + some reco about Xkit

[uselessheretic]

ok hot take but also i feel like the "ao3 needs as much money as possible bc theyre the last stand for fanfic rights and at any moment everything can be lost just like it was a decade ago" feels so... similar to the fear propagated by the state to defend anti terrorism initiatives or over policing. which i am not saying that these are the same things (fandom is just fandom in the end lol) but the way that this side of fandom is majority white women and kinda falling for the same line of thought is just...?

bc it is similar to the "we are the last stand against freedom and at any moment your lives can be taken away" based off of past threats where this "last stand" doesnt even fucking do anything.

but the inability to question anything with ao3 is just soooo weird where its viewed as questioning the right for fandom to exist. people see ao3 as the only thing protecting fandoms ability to exist and that they are the single thing keeping creators at bay from purging all fandom when forreal and actually? that hasnt been a threat for the last decade. the culture around fanfiction has changed since then where creators are more eager to see fans engage with it and encourage it. the handful of ones who dont are treated as a minority and kinda actively shamed. you really cant do an anne rice nowadays and not get a shit ton of backlash, not just from fans, but other creators too. like dude... if youre pitching books to agents they actually encourage you to mention if youve written fic because it shows how you engage with an audience 😭

that doesnt mean fic is safe with no threat against it, but the lack of action taken against fic isnt because of ao3... its just bc the climate has changed and ppl who were fans in the 90s are creators today

but again its a culture of "you cant question ao3 about ANYTHING or youre jeopardizing fanfiction" which is definitely bc of the weird polarization of proship/anti stuff that impacts shit thats not even relevant dndjdkdjdn like? wanting the site to update its tagging system, add the ability to save filters, block users, have a better response to harassment, actively state that it does not condone racism and bigotry, get rid of the invite system, etc etc isnt anything that really has to do with ship shit but its taken as Anti Stances which is fucking wilddddd

god or the whole... real minors having nsfw rpf of them thing (🤢) it was kinda wild to see proshippers reactions to it because from what i could see by going thru the qrts and blocking freaks...... most of them also thought it was fucking weird and shouldnt be a thing. which makes sense that the line between anime porn vs "wait but thats a kid???" is clear to even terminally online folks, but then ao3 refused to change it so instead of pushing back they just let it go. so it becomes another thing you cant question or else its threatening ao3 and youre one of the enemies.

iont know man but remember when that girlie on twitter "published" an article about how antis are a cult in ao3s shitty lil "peer reviewed" journal and it was so so sooo bad and had zero sources? its just kinda funny how the inability to question authority, the us vs them, and the financial exploitation is like uhh a thing w proshippers lol????

anyways this is why i think white women are forming a whole fucking fandom qanon bc the amount of absolute batshit insane things ppl say claiming that there are discords full of children being groomed by antis, that proshippers are dying in mass, and that their creative freedom will be taken away if you say "its bad to be racist" so they donate hundreds and thousands of dollars to an organization that straight up doesnt need it? LIKE................ someone call susans loved ones and help her out of this 😭

[mariaiscrafting]

ahhhh ty ty ty <3

ok, so I think that what makes Dream act this way (iykyk) is how dreamwastaken became so big so quickly. and by quick I mean fucking lightning speed.

he didn't have enough time to learn enough about cc etiquette, especially in these three aspects: influence, boundaries and fanbase/stans/whatever you call it. I'll try to explain it:

• Influence: Does he know the influence he has? Like, when he hears that he is the myct with the largest fanbase, does he really process that? I remember he talked about not being able to control all of his fanbase and there's bad apples everywhere -- which is true, and that only like 1% of his fanbase breaks his boundaries (that include sending hate for him, harassing, doxing, etc. yk, basic twitter culture lol) but, honey, with your big ass fanbase, 1% is still a lot of people. As a content creator you *have* to be aware of that.

let's take the hbomb situation. First off, as a streamer, it's you that set the mood of the stream. Even if he was only messing around with his pals, even if they did say to do not send hate to hbomb, dt dunking on him created a toxic environment, which caused his fans being toxic towards hbomb and you know what happens next. Hell, when this happened, I was watching Tapl and he was watching them and he was crying laughing over them screaming bc they were just. so loud and so aggressive that it was kinda ??? Sirs, this is literally a Minecraft Stream lmaooo

my point is, that was not the road that dreamwastaken, 21M fans, should've taken. he don't condone his fans actions but he knows his fans are diehard and will always be on his side, he should be more careful before stating negative opinions, especially if its towards another person.

• Boundaries and Fanbase: He posted a list of his boundaries a while ago, idk if you know or seen it (btw please george copy your bestie for the love of god <3) but I'm not talking about those boundaries, I'm talking about the basic boundaries between cc and viewer. boundaries that, in my opinion, should exist between cc and viewer. I get that Dream is an open person, an oversharing type of open person if I may add, but I think he should take a step back regardless. When I heard that he was taking a time from twitter, I genuinely got so glad, not because he couldn't start any drama then, but because it would do so so good for his mental health. I'm not even that fond of him, it's just that for me, any cc taking a break or outright leaving twitter is a win for me. I know how RSD is hard to deal and honestly letting shit out it's better but dream you have dt you have bbh so please don't make things worse online 😭 I know how good can be to feel validation from millions of people but. it's not a good idea, especially in the state that his fanbase is on rn (this topic is kinda sensitive to talk abt for me bc people be outright ableist and hide it as criticism like. say that shit's not helping his reputation and whatever without acting like he's fucking. manipulating his fanbase for being affected by his rsd💀 or, on the other hand, don't say that hes just being adhd🤪 when he's just being an asshole like damn that's a Him thing bro lol)

(omg it's so big I'm so sorry and theres a part two I'm so sorry tumblr user messed-up-gal ToT) - morango 1/2

pt. 2:

Dream is the proof that the people who loves you can be your downfall. istg. Have you noticed that every drama that Dream enters, people usually get more mad abt how his fanbase reacts (85% they'll react in a bad way) than Dream himself? it's not always, but its definitely more likely. I'm not saying Dream is saint, he Is petty and his ego does him dirty and made him choke multiple times before,, But! i dont think hes a bad guy. he's literally just a dude. ok, he's a 21yr old white gamer man that has a trumpie past (maybe?? idk. I think hes cured now ig lol) so he's bound to do some shitty things but he still tries to get better and hopefully he'll mature. 21 is old enough but it's still so young, yk? I kind of lost my mind during the end and my eyes are literally begging to be closed so tl;dr: Its gonna be hard for him to become a better cc bc his fans don't let him be criticized (by infantilizing his adhd symptoms or the mob mentality as soon as someone says anything abt him), the honest criticism get lost between lies from antis that don't know shit, he still has a lot of growing up to do and overall he became famous too fast and he needs to learn things even faster bc as soon as there's not a single one dream hater on sight they'll turn their back and attack him instead lmao I hate twitter i definitely have more to say but I'm tired and my memory is shit. just-- hate dream if you want, love dream if you want, nobody is obligated to have an opinion but I wanted to express mine. have a lovely day! -morango 2/2

Aight, there's a lot to unpack here, so Imma try to only go into the points I have something to add to (here's what I talk about in each paragraph, if you want to jump to a specific point):

Speed of Dream's rise to fame

The "bad apples" in the Dream fanbase

Post-MCC HBomb stream

Not condoning versus actually condemning his fans

Manipulation & RSD

Criticism of Dream, his fanbase, and his brand

The “just a dude” argument, flipped

First, I agree that one of the many factors that has resulted in the current image Dream has set up for himself, the way his fanbase functions, the ways people hate on him, and the way the Dream brand functions, is the speed of his rise to fame. It's unique, and there are probably a hundred social/psychological angles that could be used to examine the exact effects of that speed upon all of these facets of the Dream Name; did rapid fame beget the rapid rise of unrighteous hatred, did those waves of hatred then instigate the rise of a surprisingly overdefensive fanbase, did that rapid fame get to his head and/or result in an inability to appropriately handle all the after-effects of rapid fame, etc.? That point you bring up, about how the speed of his rise to fame requires him to learn even more quickly, is so interesting to me. I think that maybe Dream expected to get pretty famous pretty quickly, hence the preparedness in regards to some mechanics of influencer fame- merchandise, business-building, networking, knowing how to manage his fanbase to best benefit him. But I don't think he expected to get this famous this quickly. This is all speculation of course, as are this entire post and your ask, but I think that he just couldn't anticipate having to learn how to handle enmasse controversy, waves of antis, or every Youtuber speculating/knowing about him; and yeah, that results in him having to learn all of these things very quickly, lest he allow his whole brand and fandom to fall apart.

Second, I disagree with the frequent argument that Dream's fanbase is only marginally toxic. Personally, I think that the circumstances of Dream's fame, his personality and management of his fanbase, and his brand of content have resulted in the very specific kind of stan that Dream stans are. I don't think this is simply a case of "all fandoms have a small percentage of assholes who take it too far;" rather, the nature of the community itself breeds the kind of mentality of "an asshole who takes it too far." I only even know this because I was a Dream fan (kinda a stan, I'm ngl). At one time, I watched every single Dreamwastaken & Dream Team video multiple times; I listened to the Manhunts on repeat, as though they were podcasts; I followed mostly smiletwt and dttwt accounts on mcyttwt; I had upwards of 10 tabs for AO3 DNF fics open on my phone at a time; I watched DNF and Dream Team Being A Family-esque compilations on repeat; I watched every George and Sapnap alt stream I possibly could; I went out of my way to defend Dream against Redditors and Twitter antis regarding the cheating scandal. For the latter half of 2020, and a couple months of 2021, I lived and breathed this part of the fandom; so when I say that Dream stans are a whole other breed than any other kind of mcyttwt stan, I say that because I used to be like that, too. I usually use parasocial very loosely or ironically, but Dream stans are genuinely one of the most parasocial fanbases I have ever seen or been a part of. The level of investment Dream stans have in this man's life, the lengths they will go to to defend him, the amount of psychonalysis and digging they do on his life and character, the amount of emotion he can evoke in them- it's taken to another level, man. This isn't just characteristic of a fraction of his fanbase; this is what the fanbase is like as a whole.

Third, I partially disagree with your take on the HBomb thing, but not in the way one might think? I actually empathize with the way they reacted much more than I thought I would, simply because I suspect I have RSD (also suspect I have ADHD, have for several months now) and I can see myself getting insanely frustrated because of something like that. Like yeah, it was "just a MC stream" or "just an MC game," but that's kinda disregarding the fact that something that might seem like "just a [insert inconsequential thing]" to a rational mind might have a major emotional consequence/take a major emotional toll on someone with RSD, or really anyone who gets easily impatient/angry about video games (Sapnap reminds me of many of my friends, in that way). The issues I, personally, had with the way they handled the HBomb situation is that these are simply explanations and reasons for my empathy; they are not excuses. I have no excuse when I get irrationally angry about something inconsequential in my own life, for a couple of reasons. One, because I am an adult and I need to learn how to handle my reactions and manage my own anger. Two, because as someone with many mental problems, it is my responsibility to learn coping mechanisms to ensure my own emotional stability and livelihood; this includes learning whatever I need to handle RSD- whether that be isolating myself from others when I know I will become violently/passionately angry about something, creating and sustaining a support system that can get me through bouts of extreme emotion, finding healthy emotional outlets for my negative emotions that won't harm myself or others, or a combination thereof. I don't think what they said about HBomb post-MCC was an irreversibly horrible thing, or anything. I think there were errors committed by two men who should be fully capable of foreseeing and preventing those errors, but I don't unconditionally hate Dream or Sapnap for the post-MCC stream or comments. I just wish they had made amends quickly, publicly, and sufficiently, because the greatest consequences from the whole thing weren't even from those two criticizing HBomb themselves; they were from the waves of backlash because of their immense influence on the MCYT fandom, which could've been prevented, if they had acted maturedly and responsibly after the stream.

Fourth, you’re right, that he doesn’t seem to condone his fans’ behavior. I detest the frequent anti argument that one of the reasons Dream should be criticized is because he explicitly uses his fanbase to attack others, or something of the sort. Personally, I think he created his fanbase in a very specific way and interacts with them in such a way so as to benefit him as much as possible, yes, but he never actually tells his fanbase to go and yell at or harrass anyone. Still, there is a significant difference between not condoning something and condemning something. It might seem unfair, and it might be annoying of me to say this, but I truly think that someone with this large a fanbase, especially one as overzealous as Dream’s, needs to be condemned every single time it goes on some kind of rampage/harrassment campaign. Either that, or Dream needs to make a definitive, permanent statement against any kind of harrassment of others on his behalf. I know he’ll occassionally make the odd tweet or serious stream addressing something his fanbase did, but one of the many reasons his fanbase keeps doing the same damn thing is because he’s so lukewarm and spotty about this condemnation. A fanbase like his needs to be given explicit guidance and boundaries for the numerous things they do in his defense- harrassing/doxing antis, harrassing people who criticize him who aren’t antis (respectful criticism, other CCs, other MCYT stans, etc.), harrassing the people he critcizes (i.e., HBomb), speculating about his personal life (his relationship with his gf, his mental health/ADHD, his romantic life, his childhood, etc.), and speculating about his relationships with his friends and colleagues.  My personal ideology is that, if you have significant influence over someone or a group of people, you are at least somewhat responsible for the things those people do or don’t do, if it at all relates back to you. I’m so fucking tired of the argument that CCs aren’t responsible for what their fans do. Obviously they aren’t responsible for every single one of their fans, and obviously they can’t fully control their fans at the end of the day. But I think there are certain things that reach such a level of extremity that does make those CCs responsible. This can be measured by either scale or intensity; that is to say, if a CC’s fanbase does things on an extremely large scale, or one person from/a fraction of the fanbase does something really extreme, then the CC is made all the more responsible. Another CC I’ve always had trouble discussing with other people on this subject is Pewdiepie, in particular, about the extremists in his fanbase. Because the things a small handful of his fans have done in reference to him and/or in his name were so fucking extreme, I thought Pewdiepie had to take at least some responsibilty. Along a similar vein, because the things Dream’s general fanbase does are so widespread and on such a massive scale, Dream has to take at least some responsibility.

Fifth, okay. Hmmm. I want to tackle this point you made about the ableism he faces in some criticism of him carefully and with empathy, but not coddling. One, I do think a lot of the criticism he receives for the ways he handles criticism (post-cheating Tweets, reactions to John Swan, post-MCC HBomb stream, etc.), disregard his RSD and can be oftentimes ableist. I’ve actually encountered people irl who criticize this aspect of Dream’s character, and have had to explain to them their disregard for how ADHD/RSD affect neurodivergent people’s reactions to criticism. But - and this is a big, and very controversial but - I think mentally ill/disordered people can 100% leverage their mental illness/disorders for the sake of manipulation. This is actually something I’ve learned from a psychiatrist, regarding the ways people I know and I handle our anxiety and depression. This manipulation can be unwitting or intentional, but it is entirely possible, and the possibility shouldn’t be entirely dismissed as ableist. Living with a mental illness or disorder that others know about/that you are very public about puts you in an interesting position to receive frequent sympathy, empathy, and/or pity. I’m not saying that empathy for Dream having ADHD/RSD is entirely unjustified; on the contrary, I have frequently expressed how I can relate to his ADHD symptoms and have defended him for expressing those symptoms, both on mcytblr and in real life. I am saying that Dream fans tend to use his ADHD as a kind of shield for a lot of criticism levied against him, including the supposition that he could be manipulating his fanbase to defend him because of his public expressions of RSD. So yes, my theory is that Dream knows how to levy every aspect of his life for his personal gain and for the growth of his brand, and that includes his ADHD. I think he has courage for his openess about his ADHD, I think his openness has contributed to the rise in awareness of mental health and empathy for neurodivergent people within Gen Z, and I think at least some of his expressions of RSD publicly/online weren’t intentionally made public. All that being said, I also think he has to know just how much his fanbase cares about defending him for his ADHD, and I think he has to know that some of the things he does related to his neurodivergence endear him to his audience, in a coddling, baby-ing, mildly ableist sorta way.  Maybe this is all incredibly presumptuous of me. Of course, I can never know the real intentions behind any Dream video, Tweet, or stream. Maybe I’m just projecting, because I can see myself doing just this, if I had the maturity I had circa 2018-2019. Idfk know, man.

Sixth, I actually agree with you here, people probably do get more mad at his fanbase than him. Dream puts out content pretty seldomly, considering the frequency of content output for other Youtubers/streamers in his field/at his brand size. And yet, he has received masses of criticism. Considering that the things Dream himself does/says do not entirely correlate with the amount of criticism he receives, I think it’s a logical assumption that a lot of that criticism actually goes back to the size of his presence online, rather than the man himself. That is to say, because of the massive community he’s amassed, the exponential growth of his fanbase, their presence on every single social media site and in virtually every single Internet space/fandom, and the size of his metaphysical presence in his fields, Dream is much bigger than the man himself, so the criticism he receives will, at least in part, be a direct or indirect result of all these other aspects of the Dream brand.  Something I don’t think many Dream fans/stans, or even most MCYT fans in general, understand, is that Dream isn’t just “one guy” in the eyes of the Internet- at least, not anymore. He hasn’t been for nearly a year. Like Pewdiepie, Mr. Beast, and other CCs who have amassed similar levels of fame and wealth via Internet content creation, Dream is a brand now, and most people will treat him as such. He isn’t just some uwu soft boy playing Minecraft anymore. He is on a whole other level from any other MCYT in his friend circle or colleague interaction bubble. His words will never again live in a vaccum or private bubble, his friend circle will never again be under anything less than intense scrutiny, his past actions will never again be simple mistakes or silly errors, his words will never again be casual tweets or streams for laughs among a couple thousand followers. Dream’s name represents something much bigger than just the one man. As such, all aspects of his brand, including his fanbase, will tie back to him and, ultimately, to any general criticism of him.

I’m not saying I like any of this, and I actually think the evolution of influencers from people to a marketable brand with similar mechanisms, responsibilities, and liabilities as a corporation is some kind of late capitalism nightmare fuel; I’m just stating my own observations and theories as to why so much anti-Dream criticism seems to be directed at his fanbase, rather than him.

Seventh, he’s just a guy, you’re right, but I think a lot of the antis on Tumblr understand this more than you know. As I’ve seen it, the sentiment among much of the “DSMP stans DNI” crowd seems to be that of “Dream/other MCYTs are such ‘bad’ people, so why do their fans stick to these mediocre, racist men, when there are so many better people to watch/better content to consume?” We know this argument is flawed for many of the obvious reasons - the conflation of all MCYTs’ actions regardless of individual identity, the equating of a CC’s fanbase’s morality to that of the CC they enjoy watching, the exxageration of any error MCYT CCs have committed as bigotry/racism, the fundamental misunderstanding and misinformation that led antis to believe this exxageration of the facts, etc. But I want to focus on the general, underlying sentiment of, “why not watch someone better, when your creator is problematic?” Sometimes, I ask this of Dream stans. Yes, being mildly ignorant, getting involved in the scandals Dream has, and being a right-leaning/libertarian centrist in the recent past all seem like harmless things, all things considered. One could say Dream isn’t nearly as bad as many antis who are misinformed seem to believe, and that there are much worse CCs Dream stans could be watching and creating fan content for. But I think what Tumblr antis wonder is, aren’t there also much better MCYTs/CCs people could be watching and stanning? Because he’s just some guy, right? Is his content truly so exceptional or is he really so exceptional a person, that people have to stick by him, despite the things that spike up regarding his current or past actions? I think that’s what made me finally decide to stop watching Dream. I realized he was just Some Guy. The Dream Team was a comforting dynamic to indulge in, DNF was a cute ship to read and speculate about, and Manhunts were fun videos to watch; however, once the Reddit posts came out and I read them in-depth, the cost-benefit analysis tipped over to the “not worth it” side for me. I realized Dream’s content, while fun and comforting, was not entirely unique, and wasn’t worth sticking around for, given what I then knew about his past political leanings. If he is just Some Guy, then there are a hundred more like him out there. There a hundred more ships, a hundred more found family dynamics, a hundred more entertaining and skilled Minecraft players. So while I agree with you on the point of people being allowed to love him regardless because he is just a guy, at the end of the day, I think that, if we are to believe that sentiment or use that argument in such a manner, we should also understand the flip side- that, if he is just some guy, why is it worth sticking around? To that I say, maybe because people just enjoy the simple things they enjoy.

Anyways, I wholly agree with your tl;dr. Thanks for that insanely long ask, this was a fun thing to keep me occupied while I’ve been at work, facilitating Zoom sessions this whole morning.

[iamanartichoke]

This is neither eloquent nor organized. I’m very frustrated and I just need to get things off my chest. 

Please do not reblog this post. 

Cut for anti-Ragnarok discourse, pro-Ragnarok discourse, the Ragnarok discourse war, mention of Thorki, and general venting. 

I’m not using tags bc I don’t want this post to show up in them. Very sorry and if any of these things is one of your blacklists, please keep scrolling.

Yesterday, I read a fic.

I was wandering through some of the Thorki content on twitter, and followed a link to one of the big bang fics, bc it was a human AU and das my jam.

I didn’t recognize the author’s name. The fic was extremely well-written, though: lots of feels, beautiful narration, a sweet ending balanced with a lot of sadness. It was one of those fics that gave me a lump in my throat.

I was only going to leave kudos, but then I figured I’d take the extra five seconds and leave a comment, bc we all know how much authors like comments. I mean, I’d rather someone leave a comment than kudos, especially if the fic really affected them.I get it and I gotchu, fam. 

Anyway, so I left a comment and proceeded to click on the author’s profile to see what else they’ve written. As you do.

I recognized their AO3 icon, even though I didn’t recognize the name. I’d seen them around on some Ragnarok wank on tumblr. I went to double-check, and it was the same user, and also they’d blocked me.

I do not know this person. I have never spoken to this person. Yet they’ve gone out of their way to block me, most likely bc I associate with the anti-Ragnarok crowd. This happens to me a lot. I’ve even had a couple of former mutuals unfollow and block me (without saying anything to me) and those felt like punches to the gut.

I understand not wanting to see content that you don’t like or that upsets you. Everyone has the right to block whomever they wish. But I can’t deny that getting blocked like that – by someone I don’t know, let alone interact with – fucking hurts. I know it’s not that deep but I can admit it. It’s a shitty feeling and it’s hard not to take it personally.

It’s not really about this particular person at all, although it’s a shame bc they’re a good writer I probably would have followed otherwise. But this entire anti/pro Ragnarok war has gone so far and it’s exhausting. I stayed pretty neutral for as long as I could. 

And here’s the thing. My observations, both from being neutral and also being someone who, despite often being quietly blocked, tends to fly under the radar are this:

The majority of the negativity comes from the pro side.

Look, I side with and agree with the anti side on this one. I can admit, however, that sometimes it gets tiresome to see posts get turned into Ragnarok criticism or tiresome to see more posts on my dash about this that or another thing that sucks about Ragnarok and why. It, like anything, can be tiring.

But I also see that the anti side largely does its best to keep to itself. The pro side complained about the Ragnarok tags, so the anti side made an anti tag, and the pros still come into it to complain. The anti side will post their discussions and criticisms and they largely just circulate within the same group of people. The discussions are almost always criticisms on the source material (ie, the film) and not about anyone who enjoys it.

Now, maybe I don’t see everything. Though I don’t think I’m biased just bc I agree with the anti side – in fact, it was these attributes that made me take a closer look at what they were saying bc maybe they had a point after all. I don’t follow every anti Ragnarok user, but I do follow a lot. I can’t say personal attacks and whatever never happen - but, I hardly ever see them.

That’s not the case with the pro side. I don’t think I follow many from that side, but I see so much negativity from them. It’s like this kind of underhanded negativity that I’m not quite sure how to explain. It’s tonal negativity. 

I mean, sometimes it’s blatant. Name-calling (Loki stans, lackeys, pathetic, delusional, and racist come to mind) is an example. But more than that, there’s this collective tone among the pro side that smacks of condescension and I can’t stand it.

They make fun of the “dissertations” that have been written.

They always include an “lol” or laugh emoji or something to express that they’re not the ones taking this seriously.

They fall back on saying they don’t care about a two-year-old movie.

They’re laughing and making fun and at the same time acting like they’re so above it all.

They want us to just shut up already.

What it comes down to is this: it’s not just a matter of being able to agree to disagree because the pro side actively acts offended that the antis are even having these critical discussions, even if the antis have gone out of their way to not involve the rest of the fandom at all.

(Again, this is not every pro person, but the majority. Tone does matter online, and the overall tone of the pro side is not positive. I say this from a mostly neutral place.)

And here’s a thing about “oh my god, it came out two years ago, get over it!” Yeah, it came out two years ago. So fucking what? You guys are still engaging with it, via fics and headcanons and art. How old the movie is doesn’t matter when you’re having fun with it, but when someone wants to engage with it in a (valid) critical way that you don’t like? No. That’s unacceptable. That’s pathetic. That’s being a lackey. Get over it.

Even writing this, I know that things are much worse for others than they are for me. I get stealth blocked; others are called out by name in public posts, receive anon hate, and are actively targeted.

It’s just, this shit is so fucking toxic to this fandom and it honestly needs to stop. Both sides need to not only stop engaging one another, but also stop acknowledging one another. We get it: you either like the movie or you don’t.

Let people do their own thing. Don’t be fucking obnoxious. If you disagree and genuinely want to talk about it, then try to remember there’s a person on the other side of the screen and be civil. If you disagree and don’t want to talk about it, then just fucking don’t.

If you see a post you disagree with, scroll past. And, yes, block the person if you need to (and sometimes it might be me that needs blocking and I recognize my hurt feelings are my own personal problem, not whoever else’s).

There are a lot of movies in the MCU that are not perfect. (Btw, it baffles me a little to get hated on for my stance on Ragnarok, when I am so much more vocal [and emotionally invested] in hating the Russos and IW/Endgame – but, whatever.) There are a lot of interpretations of characters that are different. There are a lot of people who project their own identity or issues or whatever onto any particular character that resonates (and that’s okay!) and there are a lot of people who don’t project but still identify with a particular character (and that’s okay, too).

Stop judging whether someone is a “real” fan of a character/franchise or not. Just because someone isn’t engaging with the source material in the way you are, and just because they don’t see it in the same way that you do, does not make them wrong. (Yes, this applies to the pro side, too. None of them are wrong or less valid for enjoying and even stanning the movie.) It doesn’t make anyone better than anyone else here. 

Acting otherwise is honestly going to kill this fandom. Because it bleeds over. Fics will have less readers, bc they don’t want to interact with something posted by someone they dislike (or who blocked them). There’s less sharing of things like art and headcanons and content. People unfollow and block each other, people are having to watch what they say, people are losing friends (and potential friends) bc they may be a great person but they don’t agree with you about fucking Ragnarok.

I came to tumblr bc it was the only place where not only could I find other people who loved Loki as much as I did, but it was the only place where I could express that. Express it in fic, in headcanons, in meta. Being creative and starting dialogues and just interacting. I wish we could get that vibe back.

I wish none of this bothered me so much.