#but a part of it was also repaying wq's and wn's help

[thegetdownrebooter]

“I’ll never be him…” and he's right.

You know what, Lan Wangji’s jealousy of Wen Ning might be a little bit justified due to the fact he’s not only uncomfortably close (for LWJ’s standards) to his husband, he’s also his son’s only remaining biological family member.

But there’s something so funny about Lan Wangji: twin jade, respected cultivator looking at Wen Ning: some dead guy, probably doesn’t bathe, wanted for war crimes, and just thinking “I’ll never be him…”

And he might be onto something, honestly. Wen Ning’s a catch.

[oxfordred]

Okay, one can like JC with his badass whip, his sect leader position, his pretty actor or animation, his love for his nephew and the fact that he’s one of the main players in the story.

What makes no sense is

Pretending like it was okay for him to forget his debt to WQ and WN

Being fine with killing a child and civilians of a sect/clan that probably suffered as much because of their rulers as anyone else did - someone born after the Wen attack/could do nothing

Accepting that him blaming WWX for the attack on LP was fine - the Wens make it clear that they would have taken over LP anyway, and YZY deciding to give in at the moment would have probably saved their lives for the time being (and cost WWX his hand, which he was willing to sacrifice - it wouldn’t have been pretty or just but it might have saved LP from total annihilation, giving them some time until SSC came around in full swing, and eventually overthrow the Wens)

Believing that he loves his civilians oh-so-much - JC loves his clan and his sect, he would refuse to go on night hunts unless they brought glory or someone died anyway. Think about why his reputation is being formidable and harsh, while LWJ’s title is light bearer (roughly, I’m not part of Chinese diaspora nor have knowledge of the language) (side note: isn’t it weird that apart from JL, and attacking Wangxian, JC barely interacts with other characters post WWX’s resurrection? Almost as if, damn, he has no connections. The other three great clans are joined by relationships, shown to interact with brotherhood, and then there’s the Jiangs. I thought orange didn’t rhyme with others, seems purple doesn’t either.)

JC did successfully rebuild his sect (with help from WWX initially) and yes, that counts as being a successful leader.

Yes, one could think he doesn’t owe WWX anything (pre GC transfer reveal) and therefore, him going against him if he truly thought his sect was in danger. (Though let’s remember that the Jins use JC’s jealously and insecurity about WWX to ensure that he doesn’t support him; without which it would have been much harder for others to attack WWX. LXC tries to somewhat intervene, though he was no angel, and MM and LWJ publicly support WWX.)

But no, by the same logic, WWX doesn’t owe him anything. What little he owed (if one wants to ask an orphan to repay a family who found him on streets, despicable as this concept of debt is), he payed back with his GC and his use of DC to help them all win the SSC with much fewer casualties and in much lesser time.

The point is that it’s okay to like JC, it’s okay to dream of AUs where he’s better and supports WWX and changes things - but don’t pretend like he didn’t do what he did in canon, that everything he did was forced or justified OR that reconciliation between him and WWX is necessary AND that WWX should be apologetic.

Reconciliation where JC accepts his mistakes, actually understands WWX and tries to be better can still be written.

Listen, fandom is free space. You can do whatever you want. The above statements essentially only stand when one argues canon with someone OR is trying to push others to believe their POV.

Free expression and right to interpretation shouldn’t be confused with force someone who agree or all-interpretations-are-correct-and-valid - there is a difference.

All this said, you guys will probably do what you want. You probably know most of the stuff above is fact and still ignore it. So like whatever, but also, seriously?

(Also, I’m self-aware enough to acknowledge that while I’m not actually stating anything that isn’t factual, my statements do have a biased tone to them. Somewhere along the way, they went from pure fact to fact with emotion, but eh, I’m human, and you guys like temper tantrums right? Look JC and I match.)

[plan-d-to-i]

Today I met a JC stan who was talking about the golden core transfer and said that wwx violated consent so I googled an article about consent and send them but they kept saying wwx bad wwx owes jc wwx is bad brother wwx is bad servent wwx killed my cow-

*sigh* this fandom is a warzone

lolol. NOT THE COW!!!

Ok Setting aside the absurdity of attempting to apply something as particular as medical consent standards of the 21st century on a story set in ancient China, it stems from a poor reading of the novel in the first place and can add nothing of intellectual value to story discourse. mxtx is very clear about what is right and wrong in universe. That scene is framed as an immense sacrifice by WWX, not a lack of consent on jc's part. jc gave 'consent' within the story. jc wanted a core. jc climbed up blindfolded on a mountain to do anything to get a new core w zero requests, reservations or caveats about it. jc got a new core. a great core. a better than his former core! jc was told about the core transfer whilst being at his shittiest verbally, & violently abusive towards WWX, & he had a one night crisis of faith about all the hate and violence he had heaped & continued to heap on WWX for actually no valid reason to begin w. other than his resentment & misplaced blame. He was not upset that he got a core from WWX. jc's main source of anger/mental distress is that he can't hate WWX without a single care :

“He should’ve been able to loathe Wei WuXian without a care. But right now, the golden core revolving within him took away all that confidence.”

Honestly It's not like jiang cheng was lured up on that mountain with the promise of a new core and returned minus a testicle or a kidney. Every time I see this discourse come up from jc stans I'm like what are we arguing about? The only person in that situation who it could be logically debated didn't have any real choice/ability to 'consent' was WWX, who was the same age as jc and whose hands were tied by jc's choice to die without a core, & by the oath he was forced to make to YZY & JFM.

Would anything have changed if jc had known about the core transfer earlier? Well he knew that he got his core because he went on that mountain pretending to be WWX & asking for a once in a lifetime favor that belonged to WWX. So he does owe Wei Wuxian for his new core. How else could he have met the immortal Baoshan Sanren? Also WN and WQ risked their lives to save jc's life AND return the bodies of his parents. Let's look at his efforts to repay his debt to them, & oh look WWX is included in there too:

“Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism! No matter who they are, with a surname of Wen they have committed a most heinous crime! And those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone! All the people loathe the Wen-dogs so badly that the worse they die the better. Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them, and nobody would speak for you either!”

When jiang cheng says 'nobody' would speak for WWX or the Wens he 'forgets' Lan Wangji, Mianmian and Lan Xichen did, but he is definitely including himself in that 'nobody'.

Jiang Cheng :“Do you really need me to say it out loud? If you insist on protecting them, then I won’t be able to protect you.”

jc is Jiang Clan now. When he says 'I' it's not a leap to understand that Jiang Clan will not stand by WWX. WWX gets it. If he wants to protect the Wens it will be separate from Jiang Clan. jiang cheng doesn't give af about debts or honor or his martial brother if it's inconvenient for him. Even without the core transfer in the mix jc still wrongly blamed WWX for the burning of Lotus Pier and the death of his parents and sister. He still would not have helped the Wens. He still would have been angry WWX needed to defect. Revealing the transfer even earlier would have changed nothing.

To conclude people really need to stop projecting on this fictional character, to the point where they are ignoring, the setting, context, facts, intent of the author/ narrative and reaction of the actual♬♪♫ character they voice their indignation for.

But if we're honest this consent discourse just constitutes an effort on the part of jc stans to muddy the waters with some hot key words & make jc a victim to try & white wash his actions. I don't see them descending on XXC for violating Song Lan's eye sockets with his evil eyeballs. (Thank god) So they don't really give af about ' core consent'. This is not intellectual discourse, it's just trying to shit on a good character and a great deed hoping to make jc look like less of a turd lord.

jc stans keep it moving xx ♪♫♬

[olderthannetfic]

Escapade Vid - The Untamed

I could say this was my attempt at meta on an underappreciated character and that's why I wanted to vid Wen Ning…

Nah, I just think he's hot.

Wen Ning has this adorable babyface and big eyes. Just my type. And then he got a goth makeover and became a creepy zombie, increasing his hotness by ten thousand times. The Living Dead was everything I wanted except for dubcon possession porn, and it both irritates and cracks me up to see how many people find it OOC and badly made. I agree the colors are an abomination though--but more on that later.

I like Wen Ning the best because 1. He's hot and 2. He's one of the most competent characters and compromises his morals the least. Mianmian might be one up on him given how her story turns out, but in a whole series of craven idiots, I like the suicidally moral characters, especially when they're competent.

And also JC. Because I like his face. (What? I never said my Untamed feels were deep.)

I wanted to make this vid last year, right after Escapade. I spent forever finding a song, and I'm glad I did it then because it was a nightmare. I can find love songs easily, but I don't really care about WN/WWX, nor would most love songs fit that. It's clearly one-sided, but WN is also clearly totally happy to follow him around forever. Happy love songs are out. Pining angst is out.

WN is also motivated by high ideals more than specific family feelings. WQ wants to protect her family. WN wants to repay his debts. WN is a shy doofus on the surface when we first see him, and he acts flustered around most of the older characters, but this is deceptive. I feel like the most revealing scene is when he pops up at Lotus Pier, ready to grab JC and take on his entire clan. In what universe was this a good idea? What is he even doing there? Why did it actually work???

I wanted a song that encapsulated WN's quiet stubbornness. The trouble is that like 99% of popular music is either about romance or about being a confident badass, and most of the confident badass music is "Fuck you, ex boyfriend, I'm stronger now". I did not want an ex boyfriend song. A bunch of other songs are macho, flexing dudes talking about how they'll win the sports competition. Obviously, that was out. There are a very few songs like Try Everything, but they're awfully perky for covering Wen Ning's entire story, including him getting, you know, gruesomely murdered.

I honestly can't remember how I found the song I picked. I was probably listening to Happy Hanukkah on endless repeat and saw it in the Youtube sidebar. (Look, it's a great song for all times of year. Shut up.) Matisyahu has many amazing songs that build and move in ways ideal for vids.

I then sat on this source/song combo for a year because, well, it sure was a year. But when we got close to Escapade, I realized I wanted to finish it for the con.

Clip choices:

I'm not going to include the full lyrics on their own since they're in English and on every lyrics site. Instead, I'm putting the relevant bits between my explanations of what I chose and why. A lot of it came together quickly. I knew I wanted to include cute WN moments, like him being bullied by kids, and they wouldn't fit in the main narrative, so I had to put them in the intro.

Feel like the world don't love you They only wanna push you away Some days people don't see you You feel like you're in the way

I had a lot of trouble with 'push you away' since, generally speaking, no one does push him away. However, this is a vid from Wen Ning's own perspective, so it felt like an acceptable match to use the part where Wen Qing tries to leave him behind as they go on a hunt. She's objectively correct to do so given what happens, but Wen Ning is clearly upset that she tried. He doesn't want to be protected, especially at the cost of other people's safety.

Today you feel as if everyone hates Pointing their fingers, looking at your mistakes You do good, but they want great No matter what you give they still wanna take

I was very clear from early on that I wanted to use 'mistakes' for what Wen Ning is actually upset about: ruining Jin Ling's life. Of course he feels super guilty about what he did, despite it not being his fault, but the specific fallout Wen Ning is going to care about is a kid's feelings, not the political drama. That gave me the idea for what to do with 'good' and 'great'. More than most characters in the series, WN is not impressed by the power structure or reputations--scared, yes, but not impressed. WN likes bringing people food, at little things that are quietly good, and their society does not value that. (Cf. everything about Jiang Yanli's betrothal before Jin Zixuan catches feelings.)

'No matter what you give' I used for a shot that is probably not going to read as anything in a convention vidshow. He's bruised up, so I was hoping it would read properly visually. The actual context of the shot is WN having been thrown in the dungeon for being a traitor to the Wen. And yet, when the Wen are defeated, does he get a pardon? Nope, ignominious death. It really didn't matter what he did: these factions are all thoroughly corrupt and the entire system is garbage. It's all power-hungry assholes and sanctimonious prisses ripe for manipulation. All that mattered was that he was a Wen, and the Wens were either on top or being exterminated.

Give your love and they throw it back You give your heart they go on attack When there's nothing left for you, Only thing that you can do, say

The next part is WWX being an ungrateful little bitch. He's understandably stressed, but it still cracks me up that he's all up in WN's face and WN is literally only there to help him. WN might feel an obligation, but WWX sure isn't earning it here.

'When there's nothing left' I wasn't sure about. WN hitting rock bottom is arguably when he gets killed or maybe when they're in the burial mounds, but that didn't work with my structure. I chose to put a montage here of all the times that WQ tells him to stay safe by ditching WWX. I sympathize with WQ, but as WN comments in one of these scenes, he's following their own family code that she taught him. WQ cares so much about protecting WN (and the rest of their little part of the clan, but let's be real, it's mostly about WN) that she's willing to collude with a mass murderer just to keep him safe. Maybe it's only because he's a younger sibling, but WN seems to see things a lot more clearly. I laugh every time he's like "Uh huh, uh huh" as she lectures, and then the next scene is him running off to do something dangerous again.

Today, today live like you wanna, Let yesterday burn and throw it in a fire, in a fire, in a fire, Fight like a warrior, Today, today live like you wanna, Let yesterday burn and throw it in a fire, in a fire, in a fire, Live like a warrior

For this round of the chorus, WN is burning his Wen clan membership in a fire, and the heroic thing is running away, living to fight another day. WN has no ego, nor would ego be helpful here.

Buuuut, equally, being an actual warrior means hurting people, and while he was literally mind controlled into murder, that still couldn't have happened if he hadn't been already involved in violence and fighting. Violence you regret is also part of this life, and so is accepting responsibility for your actions. (Sure, he's very literally not responsible here, but WN doesn't know that at the time and doesn't feel that even later.)

There's some things you should let go, They're only gonna pull you down, Just like weight on your shoulder They are only gonna make you drown

I swear The Untamed has the best casting for a variety of face types. I recognized everybody from the moment they appeared… Except for Su She. Whom I forgot entirely and couldn't recognize at all. Doh.

It wasn't till I was clipping the whole series for this vid that I realized that the reason Wen Ning gets possessed here is that he's the only one to notice Su She's plight and go to his aid right away. I think on first viewing, I read it as him just getting possessed before he could get in the air, but that's not what's happening at all. His dumb ass stayed behind to try to help someone. Seriously, fuck Su She. They live in a grotesquely shitty power structure, but WN responds in admirable ways, while Su She just whines that he's not on top.

We all swing high, we all swing low, We all got secrets people don't know We all got dreams we can't let go, We wanna be brave, don't be afraid

WN's secret is that he gets possessed so easily and why. WQ is refusing to tell WWX in this scene, but he has figured out something is up and gives her a talisman for WN, which shows up later in the plot to great emotional effect--though not in this vid, alas.

The butterfly reveal was one of the first things on my timeline as I recall. I have Many Feelings. Also, this is me, so yes, I totally ship them. >:D

WN and WQ showing up to accept responsibility is kind of a dumbass move, but it's definitely brave. I enjoy how WN just keeps barrelling through the plot in a way that should mean he's the cute woobie who dies early on to prove the world is bad… and that instead leads to him being one of the strongest fighters, making it through the series, and finding A-Yuan again. (Though, okay, he did that first thing also. Heh.)

I ended on Jin Ling because I was so struck on rewatch at how the juniors first meet Wen Ning.

Today, today live like you wanna, Let yesterday burn and throw it in a fire, in a fire, in a fire, Fight like a warrior, Today, today live like you wanna, Let yesterday burn and throw it in a fire, in a fire, in a fire, Live like a warrior

I dimly recalled this fight, but it wasn't till I was clipping that I realized just how much focus each of them gets and how WN is literally strangling them and such. I just remembered him fighting people, not who. It's hilarious how quickly after this (in their timeline) we have doofus woobie WN being cute and them being like "He's my murder zombie! ♥"

For this chorus, I focused on that change. WN is rescuing them. "Yesterday" is their scared faces. Here, being a "warrior" is apologizing to JL. And maybe WN doesn't really owe an apology, but JL does deserve one. Almost no one in the series seems to give a shit about how JL is feeling.

And then my favorite scene with my two faves! WN is finally telling JC what he has probably wanted to for ages. WN is a wuss when it comes to himself, but he gets righteously pissed when someone else is being mistreated. The yesterday he's letting burn here is his promise to keep quiet… along with viciously burning down every bit of self perception and hubris JC ever had. Ouch!

Your heart is too heavy from things you carry a long time, Been up you been down, tired and you don't know why, But you're never gonna go back, you only live one life Let go, let go, let go, let go, let go, let go,

Bless the sequel movie for literally being entirely about Wen Ning's internal struggle. The way he breaks free of the bad guy's hold is by accepting the past and letting go of his guilt over things he can't change.

Today, today live like you wanna, Let yesterday burn and throw it in a fire, in a fire, in a fire, Fight like a warrior,

He's just so hot in this movie! This first chorus is him coming out of the hallucination, having beaten his self doubt and then beating on the villain.

Today, today live like you wanna, Let yesterday burn and throw it in a fire, in a fire, in a fire, Live like a warrior

Okay, in actual canon, JL mostly joined them because he was competing with LSZ like the bratty little asshole he is, but I wanted to highlight how JL got over himself enough to join the other juniors on team WN. Also, WN defends both him and LSZ in this scene in ways he couldn't back then.

Today, today live like you wanna, Let yesterday burn and throw it in a fire, in a fire, in a fire, Fight like a warrior,

This I wasn't planning on at all. As I was clipping the whole series, I was thinking that WN's possessed footage here wouldn't be narratively useful since he went and got taken over again, but when I rewatched for visually impressive stuff to use interstitially, I realized that--holy shit--he's defending Jin Ling in this scene. And he succeeds. I included both a shot of Jin Zixuan, which everyone caught in the vidshow, and a shot that nobody mentioned: Wen Ning's bloody fist after ripping JZX heart out to go with Wen Ning's bloody hand on the sword in the present as he struggles to keep it from Jin Ling. Here, fighting like a warrior means keeping the sword off of JL, even if WN can't defeat the spirit or resolve the entire situation himself.

ALSO I HAVE MANY FEELS ABOUT JC JUMPING IN FRONT OF JL.

Today, today live like you wanna, Let yesterday burn and throw it in a fire, in a fire, in a fire, Live like a warrior

Sometimes, WN is not that sweet. He traps this dude in a hell of his own making instead of letting him kill himself because Wen Ning can be a vindictive little bitch. And then he strides off into the matte painting sunset.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

Other vidding notes:

I totally wanted to do something with Chinese characters, but there wasn't really space, and after much dictionary-searching and asking, it's clear that Chinese does not use morality metaphors involving a compass pointing true north. But that effort was not wasted since I needed a good font for my other vid.

Vidding The Living Dead turned out to be a pain. I had completely forgotten it was in another aspect ratio. The shots look much more beautiful before one crops them. That said, none of them are that beautiful because the entire film has this atrocious green color filter over it. It's like they're all wading through mud at all times. Ughhhhh. I spent so long trying to fix the color on that final scene to be at least a little pretty for my vid.

Still, the film had exactly the emotional tone I wanted. It very much skewers the fanon that WN is entirely the bashful wimp he appears to be on the surface when we first see him. It makes overt the change that we see over the series. It's also fundamentally different because it's a situation where WN is the senior person and in charge of someone. We've seen him babysit a small child, and we've seen him around the juniors with lots of people of his generation also there, but we've basically never seen him out from under WQ and WWX's thumbs. It's only natural that he's acting more authoritative here. His smackdown of the villain is very much in line with how he treats JC during the golden core reveal. WN is not a forgiving guy when he thinks someone has been selfish and awful.

Throughout this vid, there are shittons of color, speed, and motion effects. I don't normally use a lot, but it turned out to be a lot of fun this time. I should find another project to use effects on.

The vid:

Available on AO3.

[bienmoreau]

Rewatching ep 46/the golden core reveal to find screencaps for an edit and just. Thinking abt. JCs horror and disbelief at what he’s being told and the way he reacts. And how on top of so many other things that I’ve already seen talked abt with regard to what this changes for him (esp for him and wwx) and what he’s always believed happened/built his very fragile new life post the Lotus Pier massacre et al. At least in cql and the why they included his dynamic with WQ, it’s also like. Just how massively that would change how he feels about the choices that were made for him and by him in regards to the Wen remnants and not being able to help them. Like I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it talked abt before how revealing what wwx sacrificed/golden core transfer WAY sooner might have changed what happened post sunshot but very specifically and personally for JC finding out that WQ&WN are directly responsible for his being able to be a functional sect leader must feel like he’s being completely gutted. Carpet pulled out from under him and no solid foundations left to stand on in terms of his own checks and balances. Like how much that must have hurt to find out nearly 2 decades too late that he actually had a very good reason to be able to support the wen-rem’ and at least part of the answers as to why wwx did so at such cost to them both but also that it probably, possibly, would have been enough to justify that to others at the time.

And even if it wasn’t it changes so much in retrospect and is such a massive debt to suddenly fall onto his shoulders with absolutely no warning or way to repay it.

Anyways. This is probably completely inarticulate but I’m having a lot of thoughts and emotions abt the faces wzc makes in this episode and all of them hurt.

[manggaetteokkie]

Are there any characterizations in The Untamed that you didn't like in particular, and why?

Oof, this is gonna potentially open a can of worms but hey, I’m already here so I might as well.

Honestly, there’s only really one person that comes to mind when I talk about characterization I don’t really agree with and sadly, it has to be Wen Qing. Before y’all start attacking me because I can hear the pitchforks getting readied, you have to realize that Wen Qing is an absolutely beloved character from the novels and donghua. 

She’s a person who is righteous, with strong morals and even stronger character, and she is fiercely protective of her little brother. Because she didn’t want her brother to get implicated in shit, she scolded him for saving WY but she also helped heal him. Later, despite having so much pride, she begged WY to save her brother. Eventually, after all that WY has done for her and her clan, she sacrifices herself and WN in an attempt to save WY from getting even more implicated in shit. 

She’s the other older sister WY has in his life, the one who will absolutely smack him on the head for doing dumb shit, the one who will scold him while also healing his injuries (she’s not above making it extra painful to teach him a lesson for being dumb and having no self-preservation). She realizes with perfect clarity just how much WY has sacrificed and she’s grateful enough sacrifice her life in an attempt to repay him.

Sadly, I only see a fraction of that strength in the live action adaptation of her. Overall, she was a bit too meek and obedient? The later scenes with WQ were a lot better, when she showed more of her sassy side and they were able to redeem her character more towards the end but the entire beginning part was just ??? for me. Also, even if she’s still a pretty strong character, she doesn’t really compare to the original. One of my favourite moments with her was when she told JC that WY was in danger under the guise of fighting him. I honestly wish we could’ve seen more of that but alas.

I know many people still absolutely loved WQ and think that she deserved better. As a standalone character, she’s pretty solid but since I have the original to compare, I feel like it’s a bit lackluster. Of course, keep in mind that this isn’t an attack on the actress either. How the plot goes is out of her control so my beef is mainly at the team for not doing her justice in that regard. They made her slightly too much of a damsel in distress at moments so I’m a little peeved by it but alas. I think that the actress had potential but she wasn’t able to let it shine which is a shame. The reason I singled her out when she’s not the only one who is a mellower version of the original is because there are only a handful of female characters and somehow, they still managed to screw her up...

Apart from WQ, there are two characters I was a bit shook by. The first is Mian Mian who was also a bit of a mess. In the novel and donghua, after getting protected by WY, she apologizes tearfully but stops her tears when WY tells her to stop crying. For some reason, she cries even more in the live action and didn’t seem like she would be stopping anytime soon either. Even later, when they were escaping the cave, it will forever remain beyond me why they made her fall and bleed, which triggered the Xuanwu’s bloodthirst. I honestly don’t get why they had to make her into such weak character. Thankfully, she redeemed herself by speaking up on behalf of WY later but seriously, why did the script writers have to do Mian Mian dirty like that like it ain’t even the actress’ fault skjfhssdkjfhksd 

The second character would be Xue Yang and in his case, it’s less of a character issue, it’s more the actor’s acting that made me burst out laughing. You can see that the kid tries really hard to act as Xue Yang and sometimes, it can be a bit much. Like if you look at the scene when they brought XY to the Nie Clan, he was in the background and making smirking faces nonstop which really distracted me. It’s nothing too bad but it made me laugh lots and cringe a little. 

All in all, I think most characters did great in the adaptation. While they might not be perfect, I was nonetheless able to understand why they made the change they did and it still made sense in the situation. Some characters were pretty spot on from beginning to end (namely, the evil ones). Some others took a bit of warming up before they absolutely blew me away (Lan Zhan is the perfect example of this one). I just think that people have a hard time writing good female characters which is a big yikes.

[wangxianhugs]

There is a difference between "not doing anything to help" and "actively lead a siege against weak, elderly people whose leaders he owned a life debt to yet voluntarily watched them being tortured and killed, in addition to his former marital brother/biggest contributor for the Jiang sect's achievements in the campaign/one who took revenge on his parent's murderers in his place". Oh right, there is also not telling the whole cultivation world that your supposedly marital brother want to become enemy to everyone when he said he just leave jiang sect. Funny how things work, huh?

Yes the Jiang sect may had been weak at that time, but even the Lans and Nies did ask what "favor" he owned them. (Not sure if favor is the right word cause different language but oh well). He only needed to say "yeah they saved 2/3 of the last Jiang sect members (jc and wwx), and collected my parents corpses" and that is enough to get the wq folks to be part of the jiang sect war spoils. From then, he can just leave them alone, maybe put them in a small village somewhere, then ignore them for the rest of his life. Problem solved.

Why do you think jc didn't tell people what favor he owned them??? Because for many ancient asian cultures, especially ones influenced by china, that's a very, very big favour to save their dead parents corpes and helped bury them, big enough that it's worth selling oneself into perpetual slavery to repay. If anyone knows such a sect leader ignore and even kill those who they owned such a debt, it's great shame to the sect, and no one would ever want to work with or trust the jiang sect again. That is what would truly destroyed the jiang sect, because back then, it was said sth like "the first and foremost in all good deeds is to respect/honored/obey one's parents (loosely translated)", and making sure they are buried properly was one of the most important parts. To be seen as not following that idea was a serious enough issue that could topple a king's ruling, let alone a sect leader.

And like, for those who says jiang sect was too weak to even speak about that. Seriously? Did anyone read the part where wwx with his undead army was one of, if not the most important factor, for victory against the wens?

If with that kind of war hero in their sect, the jiang still couldn't earn the 50 elderly and weak wen remnants... i am sorry but that is absolute undeniable proof that jc is shit at being a sect leader. Like what? How? And yet they got enough spoils to become a great sect again, and even managed to last at least 13-15 years more as a great or at least a big sect.

What does that mean? That means jc purposely hide the debt he owned so that he didn't have to save them, in order to prevent loss of any spoils that would be needed to save the wens (should be very minimal considering the situation), and to help the jins using the wens remnants to kill wwx who had surpassed jc in fame and cultivation. That way, he got both the more share of spoils, wipe out wwx who was just better than him, and got big sugar daddy jgs' s notice (ew).

Honestly, the thing i hate most about jc is how he is, like an old chinese saying, "being a prostitute and yet want to build a temple to honored their virginity/purity". Which means he does evil things for power, and yet act like he is oh so innocent, why would wwx left him (because he had to repay the great favor which jc owned to wq/wn), why would wwx not want to talk/meet him (you led a fucking siege and killed him wtf), why would wwx killed his sister and bro in law (why tf would she ran into a battlefiled and they both demanded wwx to lower his weapon while surrounded by people eagerly try to kill him). Like, JGY and XY did a lot of evil deeds, but at least they know they are villians and don't act like they are innocent. If one chose to be evil, at least be willingly to accept the consequences and not pretend like the whole world wronged them, that's repulsive and disgusting.

I've been told by Chinese friends that JC's actions with the Wen's were the appropriate reaction, as it would be considered a crime against his family to take in the people that belonged to the same sect that killed them? (And they said that this is why LWJ couldn't either, since the Wen's destroyed the CR.) Assuming this is all complete context, I'm wondering if JC might be a warning story about the technically right thing that's actually very wrong (and LWJ taking in LSZ a parallel).

Makes sense. I have no idea what would or wouldn’t be considered an appropriate reaction in this case; my Western brain is saying that a life debt and also the presence of his brother should really cancel out the “people related to these people killed my parents” thing but that is a Western perspective so doesn’t really have an input here. Maybe it works the same in ancient China, maybe it doesn’t, I genuinely do not know and I’m not going to speculate. But I like the idea of it being a cautionary tale about doing things based entirely on tradition or even law without considering the context; “yes, theoretically this was the right call but in practice it was morally fucked”, that sort of thing. JC’s rigid adherence to the law of vengeance against LWJ’s compassion towards the innocent or something.