#but Astarion WANTS to ascend and you know what in the right context I love that for him

[lets-go-hurt-someone]

I love Shadowheart. She was my bae throughout my first (unfinished) Tav run. I abandoned that run because Astarion convinced me I needed to restart as Durge for him, but Shadowheart forever holds a very special place in my… well, heart.

I’ve been thinking about the contrast between them and their arcs and the way fandom interacts with them.

They both start off as characters that by D&D standards are “evil.” Shar is an evil aligned goddess, and vampires are evil aligned creatures.

However, Shadowheart isn’t evil. She disapproves of actively evil decisions and approves of kindness to animals and the helpless. She just doesn’t like it if you seem to be putting do-goodery above your search for a cure to the tadpoles. She is fine with killing the grove, but the contrast between her at the tiefling party and the goblin party shows pretty starkly how she really feels.

Astarion starts off the game evil. I will fucking fight anyone on this. He has very very good reasons to be evil, but so does Shadowheart… and she’s not. Astarion enjoys chaos, he likes murder, he likes hurting people. He thinks being “good” is weak and stupid and that might be a trauma response, but it is how he genuinely feels at that point in his story.

And yet. AND YET. For some reason, I have never seen anyone complain about making Shadowheart a Dark Justiciar. If she likes you, you actually have to encourage her to kill Nightsong. Even on my evil run, she spared Aylin if I didn’t tell her not to. You have to either not care about her or intervene to make her evil, and right up to the end where she kills her parents and Shar wipes her memory again, she is just so miserable and resigned to what she’s been influenced to be.

But people do it to get the hotter sex scene or whatever and that’s fine.

But Astarion? The man who spends the whole fucking game begging you to help him take over an evil cult and murder his “family” so he can become a living vampire as soon as he realises it might be an option? The guy who will throw a fit and leave you if you don’t either succeed in a persuasion check or help him eternally damn 7007 people— no matter how close you’ve gotten to him?

Apparently you’re an evil piece of shit if you find his “bad” ending compelling or, dare I say it, hot.

I don’t really care which ending you prefer for either character— I think the game does a great job on its own telling you what you should think and it’s fairly nuanced for both characters. I just don’t understand why Astarion has to be so woobified and his “bad” ending fans vilified as if they’re naive morons with no media literacy.

Shadowheart, the character, hates her “bad” ending way more than Astarion, the character, hates his. And fandom can’t reflect this because I don’t know…

Oh god. It’s sexism isn’t it?

[alpaca-clouds]

Astarion, Sexuality, and Polyamory

I have not written an Astarion analysis for a bit. But there is actually something I kinda want to explore more for Astarion. Because I actually think there is one aspect that does not get explored enough - specifically in spawn endings. (I do not think it is quite that relevant to ascended endings, because Ascended Astarion is never gonna admit to it.)

I am not telling anyone anything new that a lot of Astarion's arc is about reclaiming his personhood, and also his sexuality, after Cazador stripped his personhood from him, and controlled his sexuality for two freaking centuries. We also do know that for an elf Astarion was still a minor when Cazador turned him. While we don't know exactly for how long he was a vampire, we know it was roughly 200 years - and the official age puts him at 268 right now. So he was not 100 years, which is when elves usually come of age. (Which also explains why he has a name that very much sounds like an elvish child name.)

We do know that usually elves are quite sexually liberal and yes, elves that are physically grown but not considered adults by elven standards will usually still fuck a lot. Because they are fucking hippies. It does stand to reason that Astarion hence had some sexual experience prior to being turned. But still, given how young he was in comparison to an elvish lifespan... The majority of his sexual experience was controlled by Cazador in one way or another.

Ironically we do not even know whether Cazador himself ever directly raped any of his spawn. We know he tortured them, but headcanoning Cazador as demi or ace works perfectly fine with the infomation we are given.

Given that during the two hundred years Astarion was with Cazador he did not have a lot of actually consensual sex, and most sex he had was always about him trying to seduce the next victim to accompany him to Cazador, it does stand to reason that Astarion does know a lot about technique in terms of sex... But - and that is the thing I would love to see explored a lot more - actually does not really know what he himself likes. Because to him nothing he was forced to do was ever really enjoyable, was it? Because it was forced onto him.

This is also where the last Astarion post I made comes to play. Aka how the Astarion romance arc gets a nice bow at the end on the graveyard. It is one of those gamey-thingies, where the character arc gets fully resolved, because it kinda has to - even though realistically it would probably take months for a person to get to that point.

I still think, though, it is an underexplored theme. How Astarion actually needs to learn that sex can be something that he had can do for himself, that can (but does not have to) be about connection to someone else, and which can offer a context to give up control - but does not necessarily need to. And I just like the idea of him getting to learn again what he actually likes.

To me this is particularly interesting because I read Astarion in a way that he links a lot of his self-worth to his seductiveness, but actually seems also very naive when it comes to sex.

This also brings me to the other aspect: The polyamory option. Astarion in the game does not have a problem with the polyamory with Halsin. However, his first reaction is: "It is not because we have not in a while, is it?" His big insecurity in there is: "Oh, we have not fucked, now they don't want me anymore." If you assure him though, that it is not about that, he will be fine with it.

Again, I would in a way argue that there is also once more the "tie a little bow around it" thing happening, given that the game just wanted a proper happy ending there. I am absolutely sure that Astarion is in general fine with polyamory (especially given that Faerûn is not as mononormative as the real world is - so it is not like a super foreign concept), but I do think he is in general just insecure about his own relationship to a romanced partner. Because let's face it: The man struggles with a lot of insecurity and self-hatred, because of what he has done and was made to do.

And realistically speaking, that might well come through if there was something polyamorous happening. (And let's be clear: Anything polyamorous, because let's not be limited by the sparse options canon provides.) Because while I think Astarion is absolutely able to feel compersion, I also think he will never the less always compare himself to whatever other partner(s) his partner has. Because the man really, really needs some lessons in self-love again.

I talk about it a low, how yes, Astarion is the character from the game I write about most - but he is actually not my favorite character. Like, non-companion NPCs included he is still in the Top 10, but more like number 6 or 7 probably. But I love writing about him, because... Well, I love writing about people healing from trauma because it allows me to project *coughs* and there is just no character for this like Astarion. And I do love to write different characters healing in different ways. Astarion's way is probably the most messy one, though.

Funnily enough in my stuff he does end up in a polycule too. But at first it is mostly about him realizing, that Tav still has feelings for his ex-girlfriend. And yes, in the end it is Astarion who sets them up to get back together. Before he gets his own scaly boyfriend a bit later. But that is all stuff that happens more than 18 months post canon, where he got a chance to heal a bit from all the shit. He is not fine, but he is a lot better than before.

Ironically I do think that at some point later on he is also going to get with Halsin. But that might be like 10 or 20 years in the future. Not an immediate thing.

[shenanigans-and-imagines]

Hellooooo

Could I have, for your lovely Evie/Tav:

General: 2, 4 & 9

Story: 2, 3, 11, 13 & 17

Romance: 7

Thank you kindly, and I hope you have a nice day!!

(a different picrew because I can't draw. Just imagine blue eyes)

Astarion x Evie (Ace!Tav) Masterlist (for context)

General

2. Do the other companions have special comments or reactions upon recruiting your Tav?

Answered here

4. What sort of general actions raise or lower their approval?

Raise approval:

Taking her out of camp

Compliment her music

Being nice to children and animals

Respecting her wishes

Remembering things from her dialogue

Engage to playful banter

Lower approval:

Leaving her behind in camp

Insulting her profession and music

Deceptive pick up lines

Solving problems only with violence

9. Does your Tav have any escalating conflicts with one of the other companions, like Lae’zel and Shadowheart’s knife-fight?

I want to say no. Evie is keeping mostly towards the background, especially in the first act and doesn't want to cause waves.

Although, I do think she'd have plenty of background bickering with Astarion. Also Gale would start to grow more and more frustrated with her lack of understanding of her own magic outside of the fact it works. I would want part of her quest to touch on the fact that she can't read.

Story

2. How do they advise the player character on Raphael?

Evie: "The devil you do or the devil you don't". The Hells probably had a field day when that line was first spoken. I suppose they were all rather proud of themselves.

Evie: Perhaps I'm being a bit obvious, but maybe we shouldn't trust a literal devil. He compared himself to a literal cat trapping a mouse. Not exactly subtext is it.

Evie: I'm not saying his power isn't real. I have no doubt he can do exactly what he said, but that gives us all the more reason not to trust him. We know he has an ace up his sleeve, best not play at all.

3. How do they react to Astarion biting the Player Character?

Evie: A vampire? Well, I supposed I should have seen that coming. There's pale and then there's...whatever Astarion has going on.

Evie: You let him bite you? Did it...did it hurt? I mean, of course it hurt, but you know, everybody has their preferences.

11. What do they say if the PC tries to force them to go up on stage with Dribbles the Clown?

Evie: Believe it or not there are certain rules I follow when it comes to performances. Number one, never work with clowns.

Evie: I will eviscerate you in fiction when this is all over.

13. How do they react to the PC either allowing Astarion to ascend or convincing him to spare the 7000 spawn?

Allowing Astarion to Ascend:

Evie: All those people...you-- helped him kill 7000 people? For what? For power? For protection? I understand being afraid. Trust me, I do. But to lead to this? How are you not terrified?

Convincing Him to Spare the 7000 Spawn:

Evie: He'll never believe me if I said this, but what he did was brave. Denying himself that power, risking never being able to see the sun, all for the chance at real freedom? That takes courage. I hope he comes to understand that someday.

17. If romanced, how do they react to the Dark Urge trying to kill them in Act 2?

Evie: I'm up love, promise. I just need to... *eyes open wider and she sits up* Are you alright? Has something happened? You don't look well.

Evie: Protect me from what? Start at the beginning.

Evie: Alright that's...bad. I can safely say that is very bad. Truth be told I rather like living. Why didn't you tell me sooner? I know I'm not the best at understanding curses or compulsions or whatever this is, but I could have helped. I'm here for you, you must know that by now.

*Durge knocks out and wake up tied up*

Evie: Easy now love. It's alright. Nothing is going to hurt you, I promise.

Evie: I'll try not to take that personally. I know you're in there, just hold tight. I'm not leaving.

Evie: This looks like it's hurting you more than me. Don't lose focus now. I'm right here.

*night passes sick and sweating, but bloodlessly*

Evie: Good to see you back to yourself, can't say I'll miss that feral look in your eye. Now will you please tell me what's going on?

Romance

7. What questions can Zethino ask the PC about Tav in the Love Test? 

If she were an animal, what would she be?

What brings her joy when the world goes dark?

What true fear lingers in her heart?

Companion!Tav Asks

[synapticjive]

Once again, I don’t think I know enough about Astarion since I’ve never actually completed his Spawn or Origin runs. Maybe I’ll start those before I make any conclusive metas. I feel like all of my feelings have been works-in-progress. I admire anyone who can make conclusive judgments on his character with certainty, because I 100% cannot. Everything I say is from the context of my two playthroughs and to some extent, from me being a survivor.

Anyway.

Here’s to better studying this character.

I will say this, though.

Was he always evil? Yep.

Does that invalidate his trauma? Nope.

Is his Ascendant arc well fleshed out and explored? Also nope.

Is his evolution across his trauma realistic? Yes and no. More later since I never completed Act 3 with him as a spawn, and as I’ve said before… I lost him right as I entered Act 3- he became very cold and distant just before completing the ritual. It was in those moments where I felt like he was “using” me- forgot that we were even in love- just to get him freedom and fulfill his revenge fantasy. Which, okay, I get it. Use the ones you love, especially if they’re powerful and can destroy whole cities within seconds. Just love me while you’re doing it, alright? Don’t trivialize us because you have “bigger” plans. (Sorry, this got very personal.)

Maybe that’s why I wasn’t initially angry with him as Ascendant, because I was owed eternity and a rightful place in his kingdom. I was owed everything, and he promised everything. Maybe that’s why I didn’t think of him as being abusive or exploitative, but grateful, tactful, and, yes, even loving. I think Qarinah was indignant after all they went through, to be dropped right before he needed her most.

This gets rectified soon, though. I think that they both soften and recognize how much he needs her during the “be my eyes” scene- a scene that I don’t think gets enough attention (not sure if you get this scene when you simply kill Cazador.) This is such a powerful and transformative moment between you both, and he couldn’t have done it without you. Qarinah relents because she knows why he was cold, it doesn’t mean that she forgives him, it just means that she understands and was willing to help. She loves him, despite feeling exploited just moments before they set foot into the Szaar palace. If he could sit with her through the night as she grit her teeth and fought her urges, then she could stand with him through this.

Seeing him with an upper hand that seems so unnecessary and cruel is so disheartening with this new patch. I just want Qarinah to be happy and embrace her choices, not shy away from them. She created this monster- in him and in herself. It’s what she wants. She doesn’t want to be afraid. I hate that she looks that way.

Sorry to ramble. More later.

[random-introverted-blog]

Yandere Shadowheart how? [Naturally there will be lots of spoilers]

Excellent question! I've been racking my head around this for a long, long time (sorry again to my ever patient partner) and I think I've figured it out IN CASE ANYONE WANTS TO TRY FOR THEMSELVES.

Shadowheart doesn't naturally exude many possessive traits. She straight up will let Tav/Durge skip off with Halsin, happily at that and ask for details. And she's down for a roll with the Drow twins (especially if Halsin is included) as long as she's gotten to be with Tav/Durge exclusively first.

However she does get noticeably irritated when she catches Tav/Durge after they sneak away with Mizora.

"Kind of you to offer a free sample then. Now that he's/she's tried out inferior goods, he'll/she'll know just how good he/she has it already."

"I'm not jealous, you know. If I wanted to bed something loyal and pure, I'd find a swan."

This could easily be read into as her being hurt at Tav/Durge's lack of trust to ask/talk to her first, their willingness to get down-dirty with a devil/Mizora or both. But it does offer some wriggle room in how to perceive her characters perspective and securities about their relationship.

Shadowheart will then add that due to her background it was almost encouraged to keep things... open among them.

"The way I was raised, the way I was trained... well, it was positively encouraged, to get to know each other. Even from the memories I can recall, there's stories I could tell you..."

I can feel your eyebrows and skeptical looks, just let me cook a minute longer.

Shadowheart will conclude the conversation by highkey telling Tav/Durge to ask her next time they feel like sleeping around and assuring them, if asked, that she would not mind as long as they keep her needs in mind too.

You could take what she says at face value. She's absolutely chill with Tav/Durge getting their hands down as many pairs of pants as possible as long as it's properly communicated with her beforehand.

Or you could suspect that this is something she says she's okay with because that's what she was trained/raised to believe and accept. That it does bother her more than she lets on, maybe even to herself. And if that's how you read into it (canon or not) then you can definitely twist a Shar-Inclined/Dark Justiciar Shadowheart down the obsessive/possessive path. I personally can't see a way to twist a Selunite!Shadowheart but that's what this blog is for!

I know we all look at Ascended!Astarion and go "wow his resources to hunt and control Tav/Durge would be endless!" I've read the fanfics too, guys. But let's not forget DarkJusticiar!Shadowheart is Shar's chosen and right hand. After she kills her parents she even acknowledges in awe how she can call on and command Shar's forces whenever she needs/wants.

She now has command of an entire screwed up cult/church of people who are obsessed with lies, trickery, and deceit. I think that's a tad spoopier than being hunted by some vampire spawn. Never know when the innkeeper or friend you met on the road is with your obsessed ex-girlfriend.

"BUT WAIT WHYNOYANDERESHADOWHEART" I hear you shout angrily, your voice full of !!!ENDGAME ROMANCE SCENE SPOILERS!!!

"DARK JUSTICIAR SHADOWHEART STRAIGHT UP DITCHES YOU WHEN THE ABSOLUTE IS DEFEATED TO GO AND REBUILD THE CHURCH"

DO YOU KNOW WHY I LOVE NIGHT ORCHIDS?

I'VE HEARD THAT SHIT TOO, IT TRAUMATIZED ME AND I ONLY SAW IT ON YOUTUBE.

The thing is, while in a different context. You can reject Astarions offer to turn you into a spawn. You can break up with him at anytime before the end of the game. You can kick him in the nuts when he asks you to kneel after you say no and he says "yes". And while he COMMENTS he should turn you into a spawn just to teach you a lesson of his power (depending on chosen dialogue with him post breakup) the game does not pull any shenanigans that implies he will come after Tav/Durge. It's just highly suspected in the fandom he will because that makes sense. But if you want to take it a step further; in the cut epilogue cards with Withers, it's said that while he does pine over Tav/Durge he will not seek them out because he believes it is beneath his station. If you choose to acknowledge cut content, the game will tell you he leaves Tav/Durge alone.

Count how many active Ascended!Astarion fics there are where he chases them to the ends of Faerun and get back to me.

If the logic can be applied to Ascended!Astarion then the same can go for DarkJusticiar!Shadowheart. She leaves, regrets it for one reason or another, changes her mind, justifies a return, Shar somehow is like "it'd be useful to control them and what better way than the old puppet strings of love?" or whatever. The beauty of a fanfic is that you can decide the details and circumstances for yourself.

That's the bit. Now go forth, Shadowheart simps yearning for dark/obsessive/possessive content too, go and multiply. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

P.s

The game will let you start a romance with Shadowheart in Act 1 but will not give you the option to break up with her. In my first playthrough I was with Shadowheart halfway into Act 2 until Astarion and I hugged and it took Shadowheart confronting my Durge to finally break things off. The game locks you into a yandere-esque romance with Shadowheart... Make of that what you will...

On that note, I believe Karlach is the same...

Look, just make everyone yandere I'm just saying anything is possible if you put your mind to--

[wetcatspellcaster]

Can I get into the "hugging Rose" pile pretty please 🥺 By now I'm thinking we need to put sticky notes everywhere in camp to say we love her, cherish her, she is valid in her feeling, she is needed because she simply exists, she is beautiful, she is gorgeous when she is silly, and that we want to hear of her worries, her troubles, and her happiness. It will take a village to make her think she is valued, but we will make it work. We, and therapy (now I'm imagining the couple therapy, where Astarion and Rose scream at each other that the other one needs it more, while therapist plans to buy a house because it will take them years to sort this mess)

This chapter had been the warmest hug and a cup of tea on the coldest day. And a little targeted, because damn. Thinking your problems are so small compared to others, and it being a reason to hide them, thinking it does not warrant attention and help? And then, when it accidentally gets out, panicking, but everyone is supportive and offering to help? And it's terrifying? Too close to home. Poor Rose. Keeping all that fear to herself, when she had people who would understand her like no other, is a hard pill to swallow.

And I wonder if even after this Astarion plans to Ascend. Like, here is before him an example of bravery, Rose, who says yes, once the tadpole is gone, I'm back to being miserable, and it's fine. She can deal with it, not having a godlike demonic power. Or is there no self averseness? Or is he like "yeah, no, I don't want to be like that"? Because who knows what is happening in that brain. I mean, they encountered so many people who got so corrupt with power, and he lived under Cazador, so perhaps there is literally nothing left in that brain but desperate need to feel safe no matter the cost.

Their nightly cuddle was so sweet. The "let's put on a pause that disagreement, because you need a hug right now" just 🤌🤌🤌 I was afraid the reveal of Rose illness will end up in more arguments, but there is still little brain left in that vampire's head!

Thank you for this chapter. It was so nice to see Rose comforted and acknowledged, assured she is still the part of them, they still love her. Even Lae'zel! That was a nice surprise!

And congratulations on submitting your thesis!

Astarion/Rosalie couple's therapy is actually a hellscape of an idea and I'm living for it :')))) there's a reason Zethino offered love trialling for free, and she's not even a professional

Chapter 14 was partly to ensure that the angst got broken up by some comfort (I will be endeavouring to give people nice things in Act 3, even though Act 3 gave me nothing to be nice about) - but I did also think that the only way to develop the relationship ahead of the end of Astarion's questline was to simply have them reach a point where they're both too tired to fight so they put their argument on pause for a bit... so that's what happened here!

It'll be two chapters until we're back to Astarion's POV, but I think the pause here also happens purposefully on his part so he can recalibrate. Like yes, him being nice to her and absolving her of the shame of lying is a selfless act and a genuine attempt to comfort, and I don't want to undersell that. But the only way I can imagine that working in my own head in this point in my characterisation of him if it's not also motivated by his new need to control and adapt his persona or presentation to the situation. The thoughts I hinted at in Pieces are certainly happening, but rather than have another argument or act rashly in the moment when you're still potentially operating with inaccurate information... instead I imagine there's a slightly selfish desire (however unconscious!) to bide his time and fully learn how to accommodate this new context!

As for Lae'zel, I imagine her seeing Rosalie's courage as her only strength, so learning it comes from the mindflayer of it all was probably a lot to process. But she's right, it makes her uniquely suited for leadership in this one particular situation!!

(Also laughing that the chapter feels targeted, making a magical allegory for high functioning depression SEEMED like a good idea back in 2021...)

[limpfisted]

while wyll is a very well intentioned person part of the game is about subverting tropes, and to ME hes MY special princess. he is by no stretch of the imagination “perfect” n hes not SUPPOSED to be perfect, n he has glaring flaws present in the text in subtext that make him very interesting narratively

while wyll trying to fight monsters and devils to save people is objectively good

in dnd, monsters, devils, goblins, even animals in the context of this game. theyre still literally people. theyre capable of language and complex thoughts and motivations

while im not about to be like (fire emblem vc) DIMITRI. KILLS. WOMEN. wyll’s quest to be a generic lawful good human warrior male is not as black and white as he wants it to be

and he can be a hypocrite and a liar

and he can be dumb and needlessly vicious. he stands in the middle of the room with priestess guts and to her face goes “tav lets just kill her. lets kill everyone here lets blow this nasty wench to smithereens” and u have to go priestess guts i am so sorry my friend would fucking say that to you. while we are. trying. to be SNEAKY, WYLLIAM!!

he DOES try to kill karlach. he probs killed other innocent prisoners of zariel. he thought it was the right thing to do, its reasonable. but he still did it. n he never faces tbe consequences or even the guilt.in fact he only faces consequences n guilt when he does the RIGHT thing

wyll IS a very kind and tolerant person to a point but its interesting to see like. who deserves second chances to wyll. and why

like obviously being a generic goblin killer doesnt make u a bad person or anything. its good to kill momsters that are hurting ppl. but hes eventually going to hv to look back on the things hes done for mizora and the devils hes killed, and go “hm.” bc even tho he HAD to do it. he also justified it. and that makes it worse

its honestly kind of interesting he doesnt hv anything to say abt freeing 7000 hungry vampire spawn. n when ascended astarion mentions them, wyll asks how many ppl astarion has killed. “dozens, hundreds?” bro it was 7007 ppl, u know the exact number. he cant even wrap his head around it

like everything else in his life—i dont think he really knows how to weigh the burden of that decision bc he can really never let himself feel the full severity of anything without going “ok moving on” or “let my next action prove my worth.” (ie when he tells karlach hes been a beast but he still wants to prove himself, when u tell him hes a monster, he will still prove himself to the sword coast n be tbeir protector.)

its a very rich thing, hes going on his own little narrative journey here where hes realizing what kind of man and hero he wants to be, same as all the rest of them

n a part of that is coming to terms with things like balduran being a lie, n baldurs gate being so much less than he remembers

something i really enjoy abt the game as someone who considers themself an existentialist is. the burden of freedom. we are condemned to be free. despite the facticities and realities of the world n other ppls reactions to our decisions—we alone make our choices n deal with those consequences

wyll is always, always making the best of a bad situation, hes always doing the best he can, hes always doing what he thinks is right, he always tries to be kind and good and gentle to the people “who deserve it.”

but hes only human, and the road to hell is paved with good intentions

when it comes to morals and “goodness”—sometimes being guided by fairy tales and legends is…. lazy moralizing, that will lead to more pain for everyone, wyll included

wyll DID do good things for the people of the sword coast. and that matters. but u know what. everybodys got something to atone for, pobodys nerfect

again this is not a wyll hate post this is actually a WYLL IS AN INTERESTING CHARACTER AND INTERESTING CHARACTERS HAVE FLAWS post lol. hes really not as goody goody as people think. he loves murder and blood tbh, just u know, the murder and blood of evil doers

[utterdrip]

hello im back (that anon who cant play bg3 herself but needs to Explode dekarios-style over her tav and astarion)

i wrote a full ask for axelias backstory to provide context but then i realized how long the ask would get . so here i am with half of what i need to rant over AJSJSJA

ANYWAYS axelia (my rogue tiefling who was a street urchin) and astarion are absolutely enemies to lovers in the same way shadowheart and lae'zel would be enemies to lovers !! they initially hate each other w a Passion but thats before they realize how eerily similar they are w their experiences and outlooks, and how the other can only really begin to understand why they behave the way they do

initially axelia hates astarion bc she has Issues with political figures (the start of her Trauma is bc of one bribed politician that fucked her already poor family over .) and while she wouldnt admit it easily she had a bias AJSJAJAJJ the only thing she really cared about when she got out of the nautiloid was to get back to her younger sister (hope). astarion would pick up on the friction pretty quickly and sass her right back the most to the point where its honestly a routine for them to fight and the only thing missing is either of them copying shadowheart and laezel w the blade at the throat

however. axelia got to know more about astarion beyond his facade . what really was the first thing that made her empathize w This One Of All People is how they both really dont trust/like ppl who display themselves as a lawful hero AJSJAJJAJ she grew up as a street urchin who was forced into that position bc of a guy who pretended to be good, and nobody would help her, a starving dirty tiefling child whos providing for both her and her sister, without smth in return ? so yeah no she Fucking Gets It .

time passes on and she develops an old married couple dynamic w astarion AJJSJSJA like still bickering but more lighthearted as they learn to empathize more w each other. fast forward to him trying to seduce her for the first time and it was a "might as well happen" thing for her KWNRKSJAJA she felt comfy enough that she didnt see any reason to refuse, and she didnt want to admit it at the time but she was def growing more unironically fond of him and his company

the more she hears about astarions story the more she gets furious for him and determined to show him that there are people who will fight for him . its the protective kind of love that axelia doesnt even realize is whats happening. she just knows that above all else, cazador needs to Die and she'd be willing to risk her own safety just to help astarion see it through

by this time theyre in a relationship w no labels AJJSAAA basically act 2 relationship. theyre both not exactly sure what they are to each other but they both know they can rely on the other to actually Give A Shit about them. while they both still love to argue and Disrespect each other its the fun kind where they definitely know its just banter at this point that they can easily use to team up on the others <33

act 3 comes and while axelia also gets the fear behind astarion wanting to ascend so badly she also knows that thats not a decision hed be too proud of if he could see the consequences now AJSJAJAJ so ofc spawn route <33

this is already a super long ask and i apologize for that but thats roughly how i see them progressing if i could acrually play the game </3 i have more Thoughts but ill shut up for now AJSJSJAJA but thank you for reading all that if ever <33

-✨��� (new anon !)

SPARKLY NONNIE U HAVE MADE MT ENTIRE DAT KNOW THIS

axelia sounds like a fucking Deligjt and i empathize SO HARD. with distrusting political figures. astarion says magistrate and i tense up like a scared cat

it mustve been like whiplash for axelia tho!! him first acting all posh and haughty and “im a magistrate i put away trouble makers i do it sooooo often its boooooring to talk about” and then. hes like okay so if u had to die. how would u want to die. are u cool if i just like drain the baddies we kill. can i please please pleeeease open this door to creatures fucking i wanna see what they look like and make fun of them. like this little fop being the most bastard gremlin of a man is everything to me

honestly playful bickering is So Important to me like if u cant chat the shit with your partner, if you cant make fun of yourself with and for them its just boring imo.

i wonder—how does she begin to start opening up to him as well? like is there a specific catalyst do u think? like i feel like her having a protective anger over astarion would make him be like ????we are barely more than strangers why do—oooooooooohhhhh you have siblings. dont you (disdainfully)

idk im just throwing shit at the wall bht im adoring this i reallt hope ur able to make it a reality sooner!!!!!!

[angelicgaming1007]

My opinion on new astarion kiss

for context ^^^

Let me preface this with: I DO like the kiss. HOWEVER

I feel like as an ONLY kiss for A!A which is who im assuming its going to that its..going to lose its charm fast. Its great yes however so is the butt grab kiss. YES im a kinky a** person. I enjoy the kiss but-

The one we have pre-patch 6 is passionate and loving and while yes I know theres people out there who argue he doesn't love you anymore. He does in his own way he still does. You can believe otherwise im not here to tell you your head canons are wrong or your AUs are wrong, because thats the beauty of fandoms is headcanons and AUs can all exist as different "timelines" I don't want this to be the ONLY kiss, Im not saying I dont want it as a kiss. But I feel like this is TOO cold and distant to be the only kiss, and not appropriate for some places like the middle of the street or pre / post battle.

What I want is randomized kisses. Where we still have our little butt grab kiss, maybe the neck grab kiss that was spread around awhile back and this one randomized for ascended astarion. And then have 2 other kisses and the butt grab randomized for spawn. That way we have variety just like we do with the voice lines.

When the update comes out I dont think im going to go for it until I see more on these kisses to see how this works if its randomized or what they did. Because personally I don't want to lose the current kiss we have (or it be restricted to non A!A). So to my mutuals please keep me up to date if you can. Edit: I explained better my problem in a dm with friends copy paste below

the new kiss feels like it just objectified him for the sake of fan service and took him back to the power drunk post-ascension night where you're turned into a spawn. like..it feels like it lost all the romance and doesn't feel in character for the things they established in dialogue and I already had issues with the inconsistancy of the turning tav into a spawn dialogues I dont want ascended to be just turned into "Just a kink" like a certain person wants him to be. Bc all the dialogues leading up to ascension has choices that its NOT a kink that you are trying to help him and it feels post ascension that's thrown out like it means nothing. Thats why it bugs me because it feels like slipping back into that problem again.

I dont mind it as an option / variation with randomized kisses but if it becomes the sole kiss it feels we fall right back into that shoe horning that threw our choices out the window.

[vorestarr]

I think this is a place where it's helpful to play the friend route with Astarion as well as the romance, because some of the ascended path outcomes are still true in the friend route.

He still offers to share power with friend Tav if you have high approval and let him drink from you, he still talks about creating a new world, he still talks about being protected, etc. And honestly to me, a lot of what he says as an ascendant sounds similar to the way he talked in act 1, when he'd first broken free of Cazador's influence and was trying to figure out how to keep this freedom.

So romance aside, to me, the difference with ascended and spawn Astarion is his perspective. Not that he lost a soul or doesn't feel love anymore or even that he is a different person, but that he's stuck in a particular way of thinking, while spawn Astarion is stuck in a different way of thinking.

I think a lot of it comes down to the cycle of abuse narrative as well. Cazador was treated poorly by his vampire master until he killed him, then he treated Astarion the same until Astarion killed him. Now here's Astarion, who ascended because he believed it was the way to ensure Cazador did not gain more power and also to ensure no one could ever do to him what Cazador did again. Is he right? No, we see that the non-ascended route works for him too. But he doesn't know that in the ascended path, and ascending kind of locks him into that kind of thinking. Because he's given up so much, sacrificed 7000 souls, there's no going back and there's no questioning it now.

I think that's the thing for ascended Astarion: he can't go back. Spawn Astarion has chosen not just to not ascend, but also to begin the process of grappling with the terrible things he's done and that there are ways to move forward to try to right some of those wrongs. Ascended Astarion argues those 7000 spawn are already dead, he already killed them centuries ago when he brought them to Cazador, that's in the past, there's nothing he can do, the world is terrible, all he can do is look after himself and make sure he has the power to stop things from hurting him that way.

To me, that's the key difference in perspective.

And when we apply this to the romance paths and see the difference in how ascended vs spawn chocies play out, I think for me, things fit into place.

Ascended Astarion loves Tav, he didn't stop loving Tav, his feelings for Tav haven't changed. But Ascended Astarion wants to make sure he can't lose them. He wants to make sure no one can take them from him or hurt them. He offers them parts of his power, offers to share his world dominating throne, offers to make sure things don't hurt for Tav the way they hurt for Astarion. I think all of that is an expression of love, but it's coming from someone who is convinced the world is terrible and cannot change and the only way to ensure you aren't hurt is to have the most power and control. And he learned this because this was how he survived those 200 years.

The difference with spawn Astarion is that he's opened himself up to the different idea (and very painful idea, for the record, looking at his reactions to being confronted by his past conquests in the dungeon, by the families of the children he kidnapped and the children themselves, etc) that things can change, even things that have already happened, and his previous way of thinking, while protective when he was in Cazador's control, is not the truth of the whole world and does not apply to all situations.

So it's something like, staying in your trauma-response pattern of thinking because that's what saved you before, versus going through the painful process of learning a new pattern of thinking because you are no longer in the trauma situation and that pattern doesn't exactly apply anymore.

And I think in the context of the romance, to me, that doesn't make the Ascended path bad or evil. It makes it messy, it makes it painful, it means Astarion feels like he can never loosen his grip, it means he can never stop looking over his shoulder because that's what he's had to do for 200 years. I think it's a safe path for him in the way that sticking to what you know is safer than taking a risk on something new. I think his romance with Tav was not safe in the same vein because it was something new, because it made him question things, because he can have realizations like "I don't think I want anyone to think of me in terms of sex." And if he starts having those realizations, who is he? How does he learn who he is again?

He knows who he is as a vampire ascendant. And he knows how to have a relationship with Tav based on all the relationships he had as a vampire spawn. He tries, I do think he really tries, to be good to Tav in that relationship. But deep down, he has all the insecurities and fears he had as a spawn, but he doesn't have the tools or ability to address those fears, and that reflects how he frames their romantic relationship.

tldr; he loves Tav even if he ascends, but that love is framed by the fact that he lives his life with the fear of any vampire master - that someone will take it all away from him one day.

I'm not

Tryna make discourse here

But I'm curious about Ascended Astarion. All evidence I can see points to the fact that his love for you dies and warps into possession, obsession. Like you're his favorite pet, and not an equal or a partner or even really a person

But I've seen some fans of ascended Astarion state that they believe he does love you, he's just blinded by his new powers and will mellow out in a bit.

I wanted to point out how spawn Astarion speaks about loving being in the sun,

But ascended Astarion, who CAN walk in the sun, speaks about wanting to blot it out completely and plunge the world into darkness

Spawn Astarion says he wants to be equals with you at his grave scene

Ascended Astarion breaks up with you if you do not agree to become his spawn, and, if you DO agree, he believes you are degrading yourself.

I understand that there's a wealth of ways to interpret things, but I haven't seen any evidence of Ascended Astarion having.... How can I explain my feelings here...

He seems to me to have lost his soul and his ability to love. I see the desire for power, control, safety, possession. Obsession. But I don't see love, or affection beyond "obey me and you will be my most treasured possession"

Again, please, no hating on one route or the other I'm looking for legit like, literary analysis of the scenes we have been given for evidence. I'm even trying to refrain from pointing out my own opinions based on what I've seen to some degree so I don't overly colour this post while asking for more info. Also

Question: is Ascended Astarion a full vampire, as well as "the vampire ascendant" like is he a true vampire? Or is " the vampire acendant" a different kind of creature than a full vampire since he did not drink the blood of his master? Do we have any in game or canon explanations?

I'm curious! Help me