#blood does not define my siblings' relationship with me. it's the way i view them
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Completely ignoring what I wrote a few days ago, I would love to one day include non-blood related sibling dynamics in a fic one day. One where they all know they're not related. But it doesn't matter anyway bc they're siblings and that's all that matters.
#rambles#despite the fact that i don't mind that trope in literature you can really tell when a korean light novel author has siblings or not#they either go the route where siblings are abusive and hate each other#or they end up falling in love with the non-blood related mc#or they act like real siblings#but a sibling dynamic is a really unique thing?#idk maybe i can say this bc my brother isn't my full brother#but even though i have always known we don't share a father that never made him any less my brother?#half/full siblings are just titles#he's my brother#granted that's not the same as being completely non-blood related but i'd hope it's similar?#idk i'd like to capture something like that in a story one day#'it doesn't matter who or where you came from it doesn't matter you're still my sister/brother'#knowing i feel this way why doesn't the pseudo incest trope gross me out?#imo you can be on paper siblings but if you never viewed this person as your sibling they won't be your sibling#see the thing is viewing someone as your sibling is viewing them with a very specific mindset#you love them in a very specific way#if you do not have this mindset toward them you're not siblings#even if you may be on paper#blood does not define my siblings' relationship with me. it's the way i view them#we're not siblings because we share blood. i could give less of a damn about that#we're siblings because of the way we were raised and molded by each other#in most pseudo-incestual stories at least one party never had any intentions of viewing their new sibling as their actual sibling#while it is weird for me to think of someone changing their view of someone from sibling to lover like....#even if i think it's weird i'm not gonna fault them for changing their mind#it's not up to me to police what other people do or how they feel#as long as they're not hurting anyone it's fine with me#i think what it boils down to me is that i am not going to project my relationship with my siblings upon other people#that's not my place and because it's not my place i am not going to judge
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I think. For me L+M is another example of a male+female pairing that seems a little too straightforward to ship in canon and hence some fans view it as “boring” and “low hanging fruit”, and as a result the ship is less popular despite having canon crumbs that you can interpret in a shippy way. So the ship being low hanging fruit turns around? In canon they have a strong friendship and lots of moments, and that’s what I like them as, friends (and they are canonically friends). Shipping these “straightforward straight pairings” can be a bit squicky (because I tend to think they are more interesting nonromantically) but it turns out in the end I will blatantly blaze through my squicks because I am desperate for content. And also because shippers actually care about them and their bond.
However, for these pairings people SOMEHOW usually impose a familial interpretation (siblings, in-laws) even though they are not related in canon either by blood or marriage. It’s more acceptable in DM because F/M certainly gets a lot of crumbs but it also kinda makes me salty to see people reduce L+M to being in laws only, like their only connection is through Falin, and that is just plain wrong. I have seen so many male+female pairings that get stuck in the fanon “sibling-coded” area and it’s like… guys it’s okay to not like them as a ship and not make them siblings. Guys. Not every kind of love has to be romantic or familial. I think sibling coding is fun and all that but sometimes it does feel like a “gotcha! I totally do not ship them because they’re like SIBLINGS to me and if you ship them you’re WEIRD”.
L+M would still be funny if it’s the fanon “lesbian elf teams up with her gf’s autistic brother and they squabble but work together to save the day” but canon L+M just drives me crazy because they obviously develop a bond outside of the other people they love, and they’ve basically known each other for two years only which is short even for a tallman lifespan, let alone Marcille’s. Actually I think what really gets me about L+M is that every time they get a moment that can be interpreted as shippy (eg. succubus, M wearing the dress in the Golden Country, even M knitting in the room with L in the Kensuke extra just like her mom used to do with her dad), there might be a few blushes and nervousness, but they quickly return to the status quo of being comfortable and physically affectionate with each other. Which you can interpret them as not seeing each other romantically, in deep denial, or they’re just so comfortable with each other that they don’t need to define their relationship, they just are.
Tbh the widespread DM fanon did mislead me a bunch, I thought we would get obvious F/M shipping or even confirmation after the bath scene but nope. I thought L+M would kinda stay the way they were pre Ep 11 and have a fun back and forth bit noooo they had to go and save each other and learn about each other’s deepest desires. I was shocked that they weren’t being discussed on such a widespread level considering how much screentime and importance they both get. Saw someone say “the romance between F/M is the catalyst and main plot driver” and I want to bang my head against the wall. DM has ship crumbs for a ton of ships but nothing has ever been confirmed canon and I’m happier because of it and it’s fun to explore.
I would say L+M needs better PR but honestly just read the manga, it does all the PR lmao. I can forgive anime onlies but if you read the manga you surely cannot ignore the elephant in the room.
#mine#lmao when i finished dunmeshi i wrote a post somewhere else abt how i accidentally got into l+m#and a mutual was like. [staring at my fav dynamic from a diff fandom] oh of course you latched into l+m#save me a man and a woman being friends. save me#long post
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so what did you think of each of the roy sibs ending?
I think it was a great finale and while there were twists and turns I didn't expect, I feel like it was totally right for all of them.
Kendall--Right NOW, I'm ending on a pessimistic vibe for Kendall wherein I agree with Jesse that this is the defining event in his life that he'll never get over... I don't see Kendall being a good, like... father. I don't see him being a whole person. I see him as being less of a destructive force than his father (simply because, though I imagine that someone with his wealth and connections will build something again, it will never be on a Waystar level) but I don't think he'll ever be happy and recognize the freedom he has been given for what it is. Kendall wants to be shackled.
[insert my "the Roy siblings would all be a lot better off if they just channeled their intense emotional issues into safe, sane, and consensual kink (not with each other)" spiel]
I also think the fact that Kendall was willing to throw out the one thing that haunted his conscience since season 1, the one thing that brought true empathy from his siblings (the cater waiter thing) in exchange for Waystar... That is why I don't think he's going to get over this for a looong time, if ever. He was willing to sacrifice everything for this; he did; and he lost.
Roman--I mean, I think a lot of people are gonna go into the baby Romey stuff, and I won't excuse Kendall getting physical with him. in the hug.... But lol, I do think we can all say we wouldn't lose our shit over someone saying our non-bio kids aren't "real bloodline"... and then we'd lose our shit. Do I think that was ALL about the kids for Kendall? No, of course not. But that is a *hell* of a trigger. And yes, for sure there's some ugly Logan-fostered macho shit going on there (I interpreted that dialogue as Sophie being adopted and Iverson being biologically Rava's but conceived with a sperm donor because Kendall is infertile) but also... those are his kids, man. And frankly I think the fact that Roman clearly agreed with Logan on that is the 50 billionth dog whistle about Roman's core political leanings that he TRULY believes in that we've gotten since s3. The guy who said the "blacks and the Jews" line now caring a good bit about "true Roy blood"????
I also feel like Roman is just not gonna work and idly waste away in his millions, never able to be honest about his sexuality, his desires, or his trauma in a straightforward way. He will never be able to have a healthy relationship.
Shiv--The tragedy of Shiv is that she became her mother, and I did see a lot of that coming, and I don't agree with the "this is anti-feminist" takes because a) Shiv has always been complicit to acts of extreme misogyny, so it makes sense that she'd fall prey to it b) I think the point that the show was trying to make is that even if Shiv was fit to be CEO (she wasn't) she still wouldn't be selected because of this culture of extreme misogyny that is Waystar.
I think that in the end, Shiv does have a sick love for Tom, and the shock of him being the potential CEO rocked her and put her in a place where she was like "it's going to be HIM???" And she both wanted to be with him, tbh, if he was going to lead anyway... and could justify her desire to be with him as a strategic move while receiving validation from him (because Shiv is so desperate for male validation, always). Shiv couldn't handle the idea of Kendall being CEO because at the end of the day, the siblings view that seat in a very childish way. Kendall with his "I'm the eldest boy", Roman with the "but why couldn't it be me" as if it's just something you get because it's there, and Shiv with the points system of fairness in her head.
So it makes sense that in the end, someone who had far less emotional stake in it (who perhaps began with more but had that whittled away over the series) like Tom would "win". Tom didn't need to be a sole ruler--he was willing to compromise with Matsson because it served his purpose and got him power he can use another day, maybe. Tom registering Matsson wanting to fuck Shiv with clear anger, then brushing it aside for his goals, when s1 Tom was devastated when she cheated, when her sleeping with other people has always been such a huge crisis for him... chilling. But that's why he won.
Also, the reality is that Logan was right about none of the kids being able to rule the company (Kendall has the business training but emotionally he could never distance himself enough to be truly rational over it) but the issue is that this was HIS FAULT LOL. He never wanted them to be on his level. He wanted to lord over them. And he was upset when the people he designed to fail... failed. Something Kendall basically pointed out in s1.
So Logan created this company that in theory should've been a family legacy, but ultimately began and ended with him, because he couldn't bear to share it. And I think that's such good writing.
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aren't kaeluc siblings??
hi dear! stellar question and apologies for the infodump - according to the original chinese text, kaeluc are sworn brothers, which is, in very brief terms, defined as two ppl who are not related by blood who have sworn loyalty to each other. from what i understand, it's a pretty common trope in cn media (and has similar parallels in western media) ie if you follow the untamed/cql/mdzs, basically half the characters are sworn siblings to another character (but they're not treated as related nor do they view each other as actual siblings)
i don't feel particularly comfortable going deeper into the history/culture of sworn siblinghood since i haven't studied it in extensive detail nor am i chinese and able to speak to the cultural aspect, really just calling out the trope in itself and how it functions for the purpose of answering your question
there's a lot of discourse around kaeluc regardless, which seems to stem from whether they view each other as siblings, considering that kaeya was effectively adopted into the ragnvindr household at a young age. imo, this aspect is up in the air since we don't really have canon info from either of them stating how they view their relationship to one another. i tend to pretty exclusively write them as 'they grew up together in a childhood-best-friends fashion but just...in the same house', but i'm also very much a 'ship and let ship' person. i have no problem with people viewing them as siblings and shipping them, it's just not my cup of tea
i'll add one addt'l note that some kaeluc shippers push the 'they're not blood-related so they're not actual siblings' agenda as a justification for shipping kaeluc while still 'accepting' the idea that they're siblings, which has always rubbed me (and others) the wrong way in the sense of treating adoptive familial relationships as not 'actual' familial relationships
tl;dr is that i see no reason to view them as actual siblings given that the canon cn text states that they're sworn brothers and they have never spoken about considering each other as siblings. others have different views (often either agreeing with me, but in the 'but they're adopted so it's not real broship' way, or disagreeing in the 'it says brothers so they're brothers' way, plus a holdout of 'they're brothers and that does not stop me from/is a bonus to shipping them') and frankly as long as everyone can stay in their lane and do their own thing, i really don't care what ppl prefer to see kaeluc as lmao
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Wei Wuxian and Chinese Virtues of 忠孝仁义
There’s a lot of conversation about Wei Wuxian and how he struck out on his path without a concern for the Jiangs; about how he’s reckless and not giving a sh*t about his role within his society; about how he had a family and siblings and threw it all away for his sense of right and wrong. But the way I read his actions is within the context of the virtues of 忠孝仁义 (and how the virtues, especially 义, is ingrained in him via the Jiang sect motto). WWX’s major decisions can all be read as him acting in accordance with one or more of these virtues. Even when WWX is being his most irreverent self (and yes he’s rude and bring about a lot of second hand shame) he still remembers the we-self (to borrow from baoshan-sanren’s post) context as the head disciple of the Jiang Sect. Even when he seems to abandon everything, he didn’t abandon his understanding of these virtues.
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First of all, let’s talk about 忠. 忠 (zhōng) is loyalty, devotion, fidelity. I usually associate the concept with loyalty towards your country but it can be applied to other units too. In the case of CQL where we don’t see an Emperor or country, it would only make sense that this concept be applied to either a person (e.g. SuShe at JGY) or a sect.
Tangent, feel free to skip: An (maybe THE) embodiment of this virtue is 岳飞 (Yue Fei), one of THE MOST famous Chinese generals. Yue Fei lived during the second half of the Song dynasty. He loved his country so much, he wrote poetry about drinking his enemy’s blood and eating their flesh (壮志饥餐胡虏肉,笑谈渴饮匈奴血) and taking back his country’s lands and saving the two previous emperors from being POWs. He is famous for the tattoo of the words “尽忠报国” (exhausting all loyalties to replay country aka i will be loyal and fight for my country until i die) on his back bestowed by his mother before he left home. When he was unjustly executed for treason, the executioners saw that on his back and the people knew a great man was wronged.
(if anyone wants a translation of the poem and a rambly share about some of my favorite Yue Fei related facts/stories, let me know. Otherwise, i’m gonna get back to our favorite necromancer)
So back to WWX. His loyalties are very much with the Jiang sect. After JFM and YZY dies, within the structure of 忠, Jiang Cheng is effectively who he needs to be loyal to because Jiang Cheng is the sect leader and essentially the symbol of the sect. The act of giving up his core to JC, then, embodies the idea of loyalty within the context of 忠. (I’ve seen memes about how WWX gave consent, WQ gave consent, but JC didn’t. drwcn has a great post about consent. For this post, i’m not going to go into it because this is outside my defined scope.) Furthermore, 忠 compels WWX to protect the Jiangs. I’ve read meta that thinks WWX was trying to get himself killed based on the crossing of his hanfu and his mouthing off at Wen Chao. I’m inclined to believe that reading because if dying means JC would never find out, so be it. And as long as WWX is dead, there will be no evidence of the core transfer so JC would never lose face before other cultivators. It would mean the Jiang sect can be rebuilt to its old status without being tainted by WWX’s sacrifice.
Ok, next is 孝. 孝 (xiào) is most often translated as filial piety. I don’t think there is a good sense of it in western culture. In chinese culture, it is the expected deference younger generations need to display to elders in their direct lineage. [Note: i use lineage because you can be 孝 towards your biological parents and grandparents, your kungfu master and their master, your adopted/honor bound parents, etc but not to everyone who is in a higher generation. It’s very family/lineage based.] 孝 is complicated because it’s ingrained into Chinese kids at a really young age. Go pour your grandparents tea. Go give your grandparents a back rub. Listen to your parents. When your parents get old, you’ll take care of them. Respect your elders. Even if your elders are wrong, don’t talk back. It’s a set of emotions that tie you to your ancestry. To turn your back on it feels like turning your back on your culture and identity.
Tangent, feel free to skip: Ok, this is really cool and I had to share. In looking up 孝 in the online xinhua dictionary, it says about the etymology: “形声。从老省,从子。” This is so cool! We have two characters: 老 (old, as in Yiling Laozu) and 子 (child). You’ll notice 孝 is a character where to top part of 老 is taken and 子 essentially follows. This character is a style of character where the meaning comes from the structure of the character. So 孝 is where the children follow the old, often blindly and with disregard of their own needs.
WWX, as an orphan, can only direct his 孝 towards Jiang Fengmian and Yu Ziyuan. 1) No matter how awful they were as parents, JFM and YZY raised WWX. 2) WWX is the head disciple. That means JFM is his shifu. [He calls JC his shidi and JYL his shijie for that reason.] That teacher-disciple relation is often described as “一日为师,终生为父” (a teacher for one day should be treated like a father for life). Both 1 and 2 bind WWX to the Jiangs regardless of his adoption status. So, when on the boat YZY and JFM tell WWX to take care of JC and JYL, it’s the order of an elder in his direct lineage. To not listen, to not defer to that order would not be 孝. Considering they perished at Lotus Pier, WWX was obligated to execute those orders to their fullest whatever the price (i.e. golden core).
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Along those same lines, out of 孝 (and human decency, tbh) WWX and JC had to retrieve JFM and YZY’s bodies. Wen Ning helping them out in that situation is a HUGE favor. Not to mention all the other things WN and Wen Qing does for them. I will get to the favors and their ramifications later.
Ok, moving on to 仁. 仁 (rén) is most often translated as benevolence or humanity. (I want to say I find the translation of humanity very interesting from a bilingual child’s perspective because the chinese character for person/human is 人 which is also rén. I got the concept confused a LOT.) 仁 is found in the love and kindness shown towards fellow humans. Ctext often translates it as virtue, which is a bit too broad, IMO. I think this line from Confucian Analects explain the concept succinctly:
樊遲問仁。子曰:”愛人”
Fan Chi asked about benevolence [仁]. Confucius said, "It is to love all men."
WWX embodies this love better than everyone else in the story (except maybe LSZ but LSZ probably gets it from WWX). WWX meets stuttering WN and acknowledges him, offers to give advice, and truly sees the younger man. He treats WN with kindness and friendship (and yes, he takes advantage of WN’s willingness to push him around in a turnip wagon but that’s more shenanigans). WWX also sees the Wens at Phoenix Mountain as human and steps out of line to help them. His blindfolded five arrow show stems out of his 仁. His saving Mianmian is also an expression of his 仁. So many of WWX’s actions stem from 仁. A lot of the fandom see it as his empathy and I agree! It is that! But it can also be viewed as his internalization of the virtue to love humanity.
Finally, 义. 义 (義,yì) is actually the reason this ENTIRE post came to be. 义 is the same 义 as Yi City. I offer the traditional version of the character above so you can see how it compares to the stone on the way to Yi City. You will recall when WWX says Yi City, LWJ asks, “Yi, which means chivalrous?” And WWX explains same character but for coffin/mortuary in this case.
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Actually, 义 is used in a lot of words:
正义- correct/rigit + 义 = righteousness
意义 - ideal + 义 = meaning
侠义 - knight -errant + 义 = chivalry
义气 - 义 + air = personal loyalty; code of brotherhood
名义- name + 义 = nominal
义父 - 义 + father = sworn father (this is a difficult to translate idea that sometimes i translate as godfather for simplification and cultural parallelism. it’s a parent figure that you acknowledge via vows. If the character for father is replaced with brother, then it’s the relationship that the 3zun have. And OMG i want to talk about the 3zun and romance of 3 kingdoms and how much of a awful un-义 person JGY is… but also holy out of scope batman)
In the case of virtues/morality, we’re looking at 义气 - the 义 that means loyalty to people and a code of brotherhood. The Jiang Sect ancestor is described as a 游侠 (yóu xiá, wandering hero). The ancestor’s identity as a 侠 (xiá), which indicates a highly skilled martial artist/fighter who will defends others (à la wuXIA and xianXIA), places him within the world of 江湖 (jiāng hú, sometimes translated as rivers and lakes or “pugilistic world” in some wuxia subtitles). In 江湖, 义 is the most important virtue. Based on 义, you help those in need. You stand out and do what is right. You are an outlaw that follows a strict moral code. 义 is the foundation of the Jiang Sect’s motto. Furthermore, the idea of 义气 can in some ways be viewed as currency. You do me a favor, I owe you one. You treat me with decency, I return the favor. You DO NOT return kindness with ill intent. It is taboo.
WWX exemplifies 义. 义 is part of what makes him so lovable and reckless. For 义 , he sticks out his neck for LWJ during Wen Summer Camp. For 义, he follows LWJ to search for the Yin Iron. Under 义 , he is free to be the hero who lends a hand whenever it’s needed. Oftentimes, 仁 and 义 go hand in hand because to stand up and stand out for other requires love of others and seeing their humanity.
So let’s get back to the Wen remnants: for 义, WWX must protect WN and WQ. As I mentioned before, WN and WQ had done WWX and JC (and thus the Jiang Sect as a whole) MULTIPLE HUGE FAVORS. 1) saving JC from Wen Chao at Lotus Pier. 2) retrieving JFM and YZY’s bodies. 3) transferring the golden core against WQ’s best judgement. All of these actions are so vital to the survival or the reputation of the Jiang Sect. WWX knows it. I’m positive JC knows it. To turn their backs on WN and WQ would be 不仁不义 (neither 仁 nor 义). Really, the ONLY thing they should be doing from the perspective of 义 is helping the Wens to repay their kindness. But WWX knows, as the head disciple, that JC cannot afford to align the Jiang Sect in sympathy with the Wens because it’s political suicide. The Jiang Sect WILL NOT SURVIVE if Nie, Jin, and Lan all turn against them. Even if Lan stood neutral, Nie and Jin would still be able to wipe out barely rebuilt Jiang.
So what does WWX do? He has already painted himself as a rebel, as rude, as ill bred. And from an outsider looking in, WWX is in alignment with his slippery descend into darkness. WWX knows if he steps just a little more out of line, he can accomplish everything else his morality dictates. (We could talk about WHY WWX feels like it’s ok for him to give up everything and analyze WWX’s self worth and what not. But that’s also outside the scope of this post and i’m pretty sure other people have done a better job of it than I could.)
Save the Wens, run away to the Burial Mounds, and defecting are all aligned with WWX’s morals. Defecting protects JC and the Jiangs sect in an act of loyalty (忠). Defecting also protects JC and JYL, thus fulfilling the filial piety toward YZY and JFM’s instructions (孝). Saving the Wens returns the debt of 义 that JC and WWX owe to WN and WQ. Saving the Wens also appeal to WWX’s sense of 仁 towards the non-cultivators. Lastly, protecting the Wens means JC does not end up 不仁不义. From WWX’s perspective his actions are the only option for him to really have no regrets when he asks his heart.
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#LONG post#meta#jiang cheng#wen qing#wen ning#my meta#character analysis#江氏家训#江澄#江晚吟#魏婴#魏无羡#wei wuxian#yunmeng jiang sect motto#tw: blood#the untamed 陈情令#陈情令#cql#mdzs#魔道祖师#i swore i tries to keep the scope narrow#i just want people to see what i see he's doing because it hurts so much#and i feel so bad for him#i am trying not to place judgement here#忠孝仁义#温情#温宁#jiang fengmian#yu ziyuan
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what do you think about natasha and yelena's relation now that you have seen the movie? Sibling like or something else? I read one of your post about how complicated their relation can be and I'm curious about it. Its kind of spoilery, I know it but still.
It IS spoilery, which is why I held off to answer til now, and I'm sure a lot of other people have covered it better than I can, but what the fuck, I'm gonna give it a go.
I think that everyone- including, to some extent, the movie itself- wants to boil their relationship down to one thing, even if that one thing is a mess of contradictions. And don't get me wrong, I love the contradictions, and I love what we got on screen from them. It feels complex and layered and real, and a thing I liked is that both of them are 100% right; based on their experiences, combined with the bizarre combination of Black Widow talent at reading people but their own inability to gauge for themselves rather than for the cause, Yelena and Natasha both understood the situations on their own terms.
The movie clearly wanted to use the family device, and I think to some extent it worked; that fake family was the only stability any of them had, and the more I watch the more I realize the profound effect those three years had on all four of them. (It's a lot easier to see in Nat and Yelena, but I appreciated how clear it is that none of them got out emotionally unscathed.) The problem for me, though, is that while it's the closest thing any of them had to family, it's still not, in fact, family.
And just so we're clear here, I don't mean "because they weren't blood related." I mean because the movie tries to put "none of it was real" and "it was real to me" in binary opposition and I don't believe that's the case. I believe that the closeness and the intimacy can be completely real without the situation being remotely real, and I think that it's damaging to lean in to the idea that every relationship has to be easily categorized. I think society finds it a lot easier to assume that the only reason for adults to be close- and also capable of being truly hurt by each other's actions- is if they're either related or romantically/sexually involved, and to show how close Nat and Yelena are the movie went all-in with Door Number One.
I think their relationship is not easily defined. I think that three years undercover as a family meant something but not everything and while we know they hadn't heard from Melina or Alexei since Ohio, I think we still don't know how much, if at all, they were able to interact in the subsequent several years in the Red Room, which changes things pretty drastically. I'm also pretty sure we don't know how much the time in Ohio was actually idyllic, or the one least-bad moment in shitty lives. We know Nat had been in the Red Room before she was six; we see Yelena and Natasha doing gymnastics in their backyard, which feels like sisterly fun and games except that we know (both from comics and from the opening credits) that gymnastics is part of Widow training. We see Melina teaching the girls about science and she tells Nat later that she tried to teach them to not fall for traps. That Melina and Alexei were the best family Nat and Yelena knew doesn't mean that they were family family- just that they might be family in the way four broken Russian spies most needed. Or that they're family the way found family is family, rather than people who grew up together. Or that there's not really a word that encompasses the messiness of their closeness, except that to disregard their closeness does a disservice to all of them.
Do I ship it? Not really. Do I see it as sibling-y? Also not really. In my notes from one viewing I have "queerplatonic partnership????" but that doesn't feel exactly right either. I don't think any of these are blanket AGAINST the text and I wouldn't mind reading any of them if done well- which is good cause that's what 90% of the fics are- but mostly what I think Nat and Yelena are is scarred, and codependent, and terrified, and needy but refusing to admit they need, and a lot of other things that don't fall neatly under a label.
I like that for all of them a lot more than I'd like if they were actually familial, and while I understand the necessity for a label like "family" to tell the a blockbuster story in two hours, I feel like every possible label takes away from some of the complexity that meant so much to me.
#allofthereplies#Anonymous#Black Widow movie spoilers#BW spoilers#Natasha & Yelena#Natasha/Yelena#(tagging both to cover my bases in case anyone's triggered by either/or#but mostly I'm talking about how I don't think a single label describes their relationship)#Yelena Belova#Natasha Romanoff
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Survey #389
“i’m well aware i’m a danger to myself / are you aware i’m a danger to others?”
How much do you weigh? Yeah, we're starting off on a bad foot. If you are outside, what are you most likely doing? Putting Roman's used litter in the trash. Do you think you can love someone without trusting them? Hm... I guess you could love them, but it'd be a complicated situation. What’s your opinion on people who go hunting for sport? If it's purely for sport, from the very bottom of my heart, fuck you. Do you have a fairly fast or slow internet connection? I'd say it's decently fast. Have you ever been someplace tropical? Yeah, Florida. My grandma lived there. Are you sensitive to caffeine? No. It does like... nothing to me. How do you usually get around? My mom's car. Have you ever been accused of being too clingy? No actually, but I know I kinda am. What do you think about Kim Kardashian? I don't have an opinion of her. Can you speak any French? No. Favorite yogurt flavor? The only yogurt I've been liking lately is cookies and cream to add a different texture, because otherwise, I don't like its natural texture very much??? Idk man, my taste buds are wild. How much money do you have in your wallet right now? Just like $5. What bottled water brand do you like? Essentia. Your favorite way to eat chocolate? As chocolate bars, probably. How often do you listen to country music? Like, never. Linkin Park or Avenged Sevenfold? Linkin Park. Last surgery you had? Pilonidal cyst removal. Have you ever played guitar? I briefly took classes for it in high school, yes. Best I got to was playing some of the intro to "Crazy Train." I enjoyed it, but not enough to be consistent and really learn. Is there someone in your life whose career/life choices you find immoral/unethical? Have you ever told that person your views? Do you find it difficult to support them (emotionally or otherwise) because of their choices? I don't think so? What trait do you feel you lack that you wish you possessed? Independence and confidence would be nice... Have you ever considered writing your memoirs? No. Do you find it difficult to stay invested in online relationships? God no. I love my online friends. Half of 'em more than "irl" ones. Are you the type of person who pays close attention to the release dates of movies, music, etc., and will, for example, go see a movie or buy an album on the date it is released? If so, when is the last time you did so? I have to be VERY invested in it to care THAT much. It happened most recently when Meerkat Manor: Rise of the Dynasty premiered. Do you have any stickers on your laptop? No. Would you rather have a job for which you had to go in early in the morning or one you had to stay late into the evening at? Early in the morning. I'm in a better mood in the morning. Do you use any apps to track your health or medications? I have a calorie-counting app, as well as one to track my period. Whose opinions/recommendations do you value most? My mom's, best friend's, and psychiatrist's. If you could’ve been at any historical event, which would you have liked to witness firsthand? I don't really know. Maybe the very first Pride event? Is there something that you really want to do but are afraid of doing? If so, why are you afraid of doing it? Ride a rollercoaster, for one. I know I never will, though. I'm too afraid of throwing up, but even more realistically, I fear passing out before of the twisting and turning and just standing up makes me very dizzy. My blood pressure is STUPID low. What is something society “expects” you to do that you don’t want to do and/or don’t plan on doing? Have kids. That's a big 'ole fat no from me. Have Jehovah's Witnesses ever come to your door? Twice at least. Are you well-known by people in your area? No. Have you ever experienced sleep paralysis? No, thank Christ. It sounds terrifying. What's your favourite type of bird? Barn owls. Melanistic ones, to be exact. Stunning. What tv show(s) have you been watching currently? I'm only keeping up with Meerkat Manor: Rise of the Dynasty. Have you ever dated a smoker? For less than a day. Do you share a middle name with any of your siblings? Yes. Have you ever been a member in a band? No. Besides the school band. Can you cry on command? If so, have you ever used it to your advantage? No. Do you have separate emails for personal and business? No. Have you ever missed a flight? Yes. Have you ever seen a lunar eclipse? Multiple times. Have you ever taken a ride in a convertible? I think once with my brother. Why did you last need to use a band-aid? I'unno. What fruit do you eat most often? Apples. Who was the last person you visited in the hospital? My ma. Has someone ever tried to start an argument with you over Facebook? What happened? A few times. I don't feel like thinking over this. Have you ever had an unusual type of milk (eg. oat, rice, almond)? I've tried almond milk, and I hated it. If you could experience life as a Disney princess for a week, which princess would you pick and why? uhhhhhh idk When you’re at home, do you spend most of your time in your room? I'm essentially always in my room. If you like to sleep in late, have your parents ever told you off for doing so? No. Do you find piercings attractive? Yep. Do you like potato chips? Loooove 'em. What’s the most stalker-like/creepy thing you’ve ever done? If you don’t think you’ve done anything like that, what’s the most stalker-like thing someone’s done to you? Nothing beyond checking Jason's Facebook sometimes after the breakup, I think. Even that though I wouldn't recommend doing. You're just going to get yourself hurt. Stay away from exes' profiles. Do you think it’s a double standard that a woman can hit a man and expect to get away with it, but if a man hits a woman it’s assault? Yep. I don't give a fuck what's in your pants, you don't hit anybody unless you're fighting to defend yourself. What’s your favorite old Disney movie and favorite new Disney movie? I mean... define "old." I'll go with The Lion King for old, and for new, uh... Finding Dory, probs. Name something “trendy” or popular that you dislike. I don't really know what IS trendy right now... Is Snapchat still "in?" Because I've never gotten that. “Dirty talk” in the bedroom…love it, like it, don’t care, dislike it, or hate it? I think I'm kinda neutral about it? Like I mean it also depends on exactly what is said. I prefer more loving talk, though. What is/are your favorite type(s) of ethnic food, and what’s your favorite food within that type? I'm a basic fatass that likes American cuisine most, aha... Like give me a cheeseburger and I'm happy lmao. How would you describe your relationship with your hair over the years? I love it more now at a short length than I ever did long. When it was long and I was in my deepest depression, I was awful about brushing it. It would get so knotted. Like looking back, it nearly makes me shiver. I HIGHLY recommend cutting your hair for anyone who struggles with selfcare. How do you feel about your SO daily/regularly checking up on a couple of his exes on social media? I'm single, but hypothetically, if you're checking an ex's page nearly every day, I would not be okay with that. I'm totally fine with exes remaining friends and just cordially talking now and again, but that's it. It's a respect thing. Do you prefer your guy to wear cologne or not? I personally like cologne if it's not overwhelming. I really don't care if you wear it or not, though. Ladies, how important is it to you that your SO wears/would wear a wedding ring? This survey is so heteronormative. But anyway, unless there was an issue like it not fitting, I'd want my spouse to wear their ring. What was the turning point that led you to decide for or against having children? There are a lot of reasons I don't want kids. I'm too selfish with my "me" time, I stress out too easily, I don't want to dedicate my life to keeping another person alive and fed and happy, I have bad genes... I could go on and on. I just wouldn't be a good, "present" enough mom. I am much more interested in ensuring *I* am okay. Is having your “dream” wedding really that important to have? Not at all. I mean I want a smooth and memorable wedding, but I'm not obsessed with it being perfect. Do you consider it cheating if your SO goes to a strip club and then doesn’t tell you? That's certainly not cheating, but I wouldn't like it. Being secretive about anything in a relationship is unhealthy, imo. I'd be hurt and also very insecure because I wouldn't feel like "enough." How old is too old for trick-or-treating? Honestly? I don't think you ever are. Like come on, does it REALLY matter? Let people have fun. I don't do it because of societal standards, but I would if I didn't care about being judged. Do you sleep with your arms over or under the covers? It depends on the temperature, but I normally wake up with them under. Do you own any t-shirts of your favorite band? I have an Ozzy one stored somewhere, but it doesn't fit me now. There was another I really liked too, but that one is WAY too small now. Fries or onion rings? Fries. I'm not a fan of onion rings. True/False: you’ve had an odd dream this week. Story of my life. I had one last night where I kept dying in different ways, and I actually felt the pain, like drowning in magma. Do you find tattoo sleeves attractive? YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. Do you like carving pumpkins? Yeah. What’s an animal you want to have as a pet but can’t? My mom has absolutely forbidden me to get a tarantula (uh, many tarantulas in my case) until I move out, lol. That doesn't stop me from checking Craigslist like every day. ;_; Have your parents ever caught you drinking? "Caught," no. Any time I've drunk, I've had permission or was a legal adult by then. How would you react if your celebrity crush came to your door? First be humiliated at my appearance and then absolutely pass out lmao. Has your mom/dad ever walked in on you kissing or anything more with someone? No, thank fuck. The person you have a crush on is drunk and goes to kiss you, you know they don’t realize what they’re doing, but do you kiss anyways? If I know it's something they wouldn't do sober, absolutely not. What would you prefer to get from a guy/girl: flowers, a hand written poem, a picture he drew of you or a nice night out? Any would be lovely, but the poem would appeal most to me because of the amount of thought that goes into poetry. Do you any shirts with any kind of images of food on them? What? I don't think so, no. Which holiday is the most fun to decorate for? Halloween. What was the first website you had an email account on? Yahoo. Have you ever written a fanfic? No. Tattoos or piercings? Both are grand, but tats win. What’s the last gross movie/show/video you saw? I saw this picture of a snake split open that had eaten another snake. Would you rather live in a huuuge house or a little cozy one? Lil cozy one! I don't want more space than is needed for cleaning reasons, as well as price. Do you have a tutor for anything? No. Who’s the best kisser you know? Jason was. Has anyone ever threatened you with a knife? No. I'd like it to stay that way. (If you’re a girl) Has anyone ever called you "shortie" instead of girl? Ew, no. Do you have a deep voice? For a woman, yes. Do you play games with boys/girls, like 'hard to get’? Hi, I'm an adult. Is there a Sonic where you live? YES. It's my fave fast-food place. What do you like on your pizza? I have three go-tos depending on my mood: Pepperoni, jalapenos, or meat lovers.
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I was talking to someone on in light of my recent post about shipping mindsets (non-blood related sibling shippers), and we got into an interesting conversation about sibling relationships. Basically, what does it REALLY mean to be siblings, outside of the literal, genetic definition.
The way I see it, it’s all about “recognition” and “functionality”, which creates the commentary on how this relationship is presented and identifiable in fiction, not to mention between real life people. “Recognition”, in a sense, happens on the individual level, but can either be funneled through what otherwise is already established in society—this being what makes it something to BE identified by the individual—and/or, it can be gained and tailored by personal experience by said individual.
In other words, “What it means to be a sibling” is going to be dependent upon what can be understood through an established concept and/or an individual’s recognition of this concept’s functionality.
What? Expecting me to say: “Oh, it’s people who do this and this and this and this together...”? Yeah well, whatever I’d list down, it’d more than likely just be a component of what the “true” answer is, which is going to be interchangeable depending on who you ask and what they essentially recognize as a sibling relationship. It makes you wonder then, is there really a definitive answer? I don’t know if I can truly say yes in a way beyond the literal (especially in having a relationship as opposed to only just being siblings by fact), but what can be observed and compared are the commonalities between people’s recognition of this functionality. Somewhere between that is where a general answer can be noted.
You’ll find this common for most things, whether about romance, siblings, family, personality traits, themes, etc.—how many times have you heard: “well I wouldn’t do that” or “this is totally this” or just simply, “I see it this way”. Be a part of any Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Supernatural, etc.—ANY fandom, really and for more than just shipping. You’ll see this eventually.
Recognition of functionality. If it’s congruent with how someone can recognize it, then that’s what they’ll see it as. “I calls it like I sees it”, and all that.
This can go in a way of even symbolism or subtext that requires “pre-knowledge” outside of the text. These things are used a certain way because people decided it to...well, be understood a certain way. I mean, the color white being a symbol for this or that didn’t just happen out of thin air—this patterned usage and understanding was passed down as a way to be recognized and further utilized a particular way. More simple than that, like for adult jokes—these are purposely written in a way for an adult to understand because they’re expected to have the knowledge available to do so, where a child otherwise normally wouldn’t.
If we’re thinking about how do we get there—recognition—I tend to think about how the world essentially establishes these things as concepts to be understood.
“What it means to be [blank]”
Some societies differ on these things, of course, but even through the knowledge that different parts of the world might have, what you’d say, an “alternate criteria” to define these things—it’s evident to the idea of how our views on things are part of a wider establishment to be understood and recognized in a particular manner.
To break it down, the most basic understanding of what a sibling is comes from the literal—your brother or sister, whether by genetic means or lawful. Beyond that, there lies a function of which this typically happens—you’re reared together as a family, foundationally under platonic connections. Of course these two things don’t always coexist for some people seeing as people can have biological siblings that they weren’t raised with or have an adopted sibling that they’re raised with. But, when these two factors do coexist, then we easily go into what can be experienced within the function of being raised as siblings. The sibling function can even include the mentioned adopted siblings, where they hold the title officially and are reared despite the lack of genetic connection.
That’s where most of if not all the common tropes people think of originate.
But why do you even think of these as “tropes”?
This can either come from personal experience, or that of what you’ve, essentially, been taught through external means, such as media or other people’s experience—this is where establishment happens.
We grow up forming this palette of ideas that we use as a means to recognize the established concept here—which I believe media/fiction is a major influence in how the concept is widely spread to those on a very basic level. In a way, it might even determine the outcome of how people THINK they should act if in accordance to the concept.
“I grew up understanding this is what [blank] means, so therefore not only will it be how I recognize it, but it’ll also be the way in which I believe it should be expressed.”
Most people don’t think about this so intentionally, but if you start to wonder about the reasons as to WHY you think the way you do, this thought will eventually arise in some form or fashion. It’s almost kind of a “chicken or egg” scenario—is the way society thinks about sibling relationships based on the individuals thinking it first, or is it based on what’s represented as a collective and THEN given to the individual to essentially learn?
Ehh, kind of both, really.
For instance, in real life, why would someone get to the point of calling a friend a brother or sister? What would give them the idea to even do this?
One could point to personal experience: what an individual recognizes in association of “family” can be placed on other people, and if that individual has the thought process that has a “criteria” for what it means to be a sibling, they’ll thus place this where they see fit if they can recognize the criteria being met with that friend. It could even be more straight forward through their already existing sibling—if the relationship is similar, then it just naturally falls into place to call this friend of yours a sibling too.
For the second point, media/fiction is well known for painting the picture here:
“Got a friend who you’re really close to and have platonic feelings for [function]? Then they’re like a sibling to you!”
It isn’t advertised this way of course, but when you see this essentially represented in the information that you consume, an individual will then have that become a part of their palette to be recognized in their own or other people’s relationships. This definitely happens with romance A LOT.
You could have best friend you’re really close to, and maybe they’re like a sibling to you, but that doesn’t seem to stop this annoying kid from pointing out how you “look like a couple” or should “hook up already”. Through either or both of these points, a person can gain the idea to recognize these concepts for themselves, even if by the fact they may be wrong in what exactly is happening.
In fictional material, I believe judging this is typically much easier than it would be in real life. This is mostly due to the fact it’s just so much more...deliberate, whether it’s explicit or subtle, for how a writer does their thing. A writer is just another individual who has their own palette that they’ll express through their work—it either lines up with your own or it doesn’t. What tends to interfere with recognition is context (wooo!), where there lies a flexibility to manipulate the things that otherwise would be identified a different way—symbolism can be a great example, like through the use of motifs that are unique to a story. I never get tired of saying “context is key”, or better yet, “let context be your guiding key”, for my fellow Kingdom Hearts fans.
True love’s kiss? Romantic at it’s core, right? But then Maleficent (Angelina Jolie) comes and uses Maleficent’s true love for Aurora to represent this platonically instead. Frozen does this with with Elsa and Anna for their “Act of True Love”. Hell, I’ve even actually seen the “Jian Bird” representation used to convey the close, existential bond between sisters in a manhwa called “The Gamer”. The key thing is that the concepts here go beyond the connotation it might be widely known for, and thus allows the context to manipulate it for another recognizable meaning. Sometimes this isn’t even really a deviation of meaning—people just sometimes don’t understand how flexible some elements always were in general for how they can be recognized and utilized in fiction or real life.
“Oooh they hugged!! Romance is in the air! OH. MY. GOD. They smiled at each other toooo?!?! It has officially sailed guys.”
....uh, you DO know hugs aren’t limited to that, right? Right?.....Please say right.
Oh boy.
What we know and recognize might not always line up with the context of which the meaning resides, hence why you might have some people shipping characters with a sibling or other platonic relationship—the individuals doing so have found something represented between the characters to be congruent with their personal recognition of romance, even if the actual context is different for the character’s relationship. Sora and Riku, Aqua and Ven, Fang and Vanille, Yuna and Rikku, Noctis and Prompto, Fina and Dark Fina, Tanjirou and Nezuko, Sam and Dean, Ponyboy and Sodapop, Steve and Bucky, Elsa and Anna, Rapunzel and Cassandra—boy, I’ve seen it all and can go on forever. All are examples of relationships that have expressions where a fan might say “hey, I see it this way”, but if what they recognize for themselves is meant to be recognized in a different way via the context....
Conflict breeds catastrophe (Thanks Vision).
Most shipping tension in fandom then comes from whether or not a recognition of something is based on the individual or is based on the material conveying it on its own to be recognized as such. That’s about when terms like “canon” starts being thrown around willy-nilly. What we recognize and what the context is are two things that either line up, or they don’t, and thus we have the pool of interpretations that have a go at each other, some being fierce, meaningless fights and some being pretty great discussions that can often show the flexibility of a context’s meaning. This does line up with something I mentioned before in another post about subtext, and this is certainly related. A big question would be that, if what is in the context is meant to be recognized a certain way, was it REALLY presented in a way to, well, be recognized as what it claims to represent?
That breeds a larger conversation towards the establishment and meaning of all the individual things in question and how either context determines its meaning or if the subject inherently retains a specific meaning. e.g. holding hands or hugging doesn’t mean romance in every context, but confessing you “like like” (lol) someone will “always” have an association with romance or sexual nature...
You know, until someone has the interesting idea to have two people “like like” each other platonically because, you know....recognition?
There are maybe some things you can count on to mean certain things because, a real life person had to have written it and more than likely has at least some similar recognition patterns shared with their primary audience. Chances are, they wouldn’t be an individual who grew up in a place where their understanding of reduplication is opposite to, well, everyone else. But you never know, I guess. Again, there lies that point about subtext (here is the post, in case anyone is wondering) where you might be able to argue that, pretty much, a writer can make a mistake in their writing and mess up the whole process of recognizing elements within a context unintentionally, where it wouldn’t really BE subtext anymore.
Other than that, most people’s issues with recognition is interlaced with their ability to identify what these elements are. Between context and what can be understood as “established meaning”, usually the answer can be discerned if the writer is truly creating something to be understood by other people. That’s where authorial intent and THEIR recognition starts to be considered the most by the audience.
Buuuuut I’m gonna stop there.
I’m probably more rambling at this point, but it is an interesting and WIDE subject, so it is to be expected. It’s fun stuff.
#final fantasy#kingdom hearts#supernatural#frozen#shipping#fandom#tangled#demon slayer#fiction#subtext#final fantasy xiii#final fantasy xv
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Here’s literally all the rosie lore.
(template 1) (template 2)
Name: Rosemary Nare Etana Alias: Ro, Rose, Rosie Personality: Rosemary is very open about her emotions. She takes a while to warm up to people, but when she does, she loves people very strongly. Relatives: Father (estranged), Mother (deceased), 4 older siblings, 2 younger siblings. Status: Alive Species: Human Gender: cis female Age: 19 Eyes: Gold Hair: Pink Appearance: Rosemary is 5′5 and has short pink hair. She has two scars, one along her back and one on her lower right abdomen. She also has a tattoo on her calf of a lily. Birthday: July 30th Constellation: Leo Height: 5′5″ or 165 cm Blood Type: O Occupation: Magic Knight -Squad: Black Bulls Country: Clover Affinity: Lava Magic (On a scale of 0-10: 0 being terrible and 10 being the best) Physical Strength 5/10 Magic Amount 7/10 Magic Control 9/10 Magic Sensing 6/10 Cleverness 9/10 Growth 8/10 Equipment: none
(this next one is all in first person which i am NOT used to writing in but...)
Part 1: The Basics
What is your full name?--Rosemary Nare Etana
Where and when were you born?--I was born on July 30th in a large city in the Common Realm, however we moved to a small town shortly after I was born.
Who are/were your parents? (Know their names, occupations, personalities, etc.)--
Lily Etana was my mother’s name. She worked several jobs while raising us, like waitressing and being a maid. She was very kind too, but a lot of people took advantage of her for that. I guess that’s why Val and I have taken to being aggressive about how we feel, and aggressive in sticking up for her. When I was 12, an assassin killed her and gave me the scar across my back. I’m sure he was sent by my grandparents, but they played the fool and even sent an advisor to her funeral. Since then, that advisor has scheduled meetings with me monthly to make sure I haven’t told anyone.
My father’s name is Andranik Typhos the fourth? something like that, but I don’t know very much about him. I know he’s a noble, but I’ve never met him. I don’t hear that many complaints about him, and Mother says he was a wonderful gentleman, but I’ve met his parents, and I find it hard to believe that they would raise a lovely son.
Do you have any siblings? What are/were they like?--I have four! On my mom’s side, at least.
Valerian is the oldest. He’s sixteen years older than me, so he’s a lot more mature than me, and very protective of us younger siblings. He has three kids, too, and his wife is Eli’s cousin. They have been married since I was only three, so she’s been in our lives forever. The two of them basically became my parents after our mother died, so I couldn’t be more grateful to them.
Then is Dahlia. Dahlia is 12 years older than me. She’s very calm, and there have been more than a few times where Valerian has been freaking out and Dahlia always keeps her cool and fixes the problem. She’s the best at makeup.
Basil is in the direct middle, and they’re 9 years older than me. They are very energetic and mischievous. I don’t think Basil wants a spouse, but they’re very dedicated to their craft. I blame them for the multiple scams of my father’s estate, but who’s complaining? Basil also has a scar along their right cheek, running from their nose to their chin
Azalea is the closest to my age, she’s 25. She’s a lot like our mom. She treats everyone with kindness, but I worry about people taking advantage of her for that.
Also, I know that my father has two children younger than me with his wife, but I’ve never met them and I probably never will.
Where do you live now, and with whom? Describe the place and the person/people.--I live with the Black Bulls! The base is really crazy and always changing, but there’s always something going on, so everyday is fun.
What is your occupation?--I’m a Magic Knight, but I have also worked some other jobs in the past.
Write a full physical description of yourself. You might want to consider factors such as: height, weight, race, hair and eye color, style of dress, and any tattoos, scars, or distinguishing marks--I’m 5′5, and around 150lbs. My skin is pale, so I tend to burn very easily, and my eyes are yellow and my hair is pink. I like to wear warm colors and clothes that aren’t very tight, as well as boots. I have two large scars, one is about three inches and is a slash along my stomach, while the other one is about eight inches long and runs across my upper back, both from assassination attempts. I try to hide both of them. I also have one tattoo on my lower calf, so it’s usually covered.
To which social class do you belong?--I believe I’m considered a commoner. I likely wouldn’t be considered a noble unless something happened to my father’s legitimate children, though I have no interest in being taken in by his family.
Do you have any allergies, diseases, or other physical weaknesses?—I get nosebleeds often because of an injury when i was younger.
Are you right- or left-handed?—right handed
What does your voice sound like?—If I had to describe it, I’d say it’s medium in pitch and kind of airy.
What words and/or phrases do you use very frequently?--nothing particularly?
What do you have in your pockets?—um. a handful of flowers, a pocket watch, and assorted candies.
Do you have any quirks, strange mannerisms, annoying habits, or other defining characteristics?—I sometimes bite my nails.
Part 2: Growing Up
How would you describe your childhood in general?--Average for the most part, I’d say. I had a loving mother and 4 great siblings. Still, my mother’s death hit all of us very hard.
What is your earliest memory?--Sadly, my first assassination attempt. That one was when I was around five and it was sent by my father’s family. It gave me the scar on my stomach, and also gave Basil the scar on their face from them protecting me.
How much schooling have you had?--I went to the small schoolhouse in town up until I was 12, and then I started going less so I could work more.
Did you enjoy school?--I enjoyed learning, but I’ve found that I learn more outside of school.
Where did you learn most of your skills and other abilities?--I learned basic first aid and how to identify certain plants and herbs from my siblings. I mostly learned battle from experience and assassins.
While growing up, did you have any role models? If so, describe them.—my siblings, especially Basil
While growing up, how did you get along with the other members of your family?--We all got along very well as kids, though they were all a lot older than me so that did strain our relationships a bit, especially as the youngest.
As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up?--As a child I wanted to work in medicine, even though my magic is ill suited for it. I only decided that I wanted to become a Magic Knight after my mother’s death.
As a child, what were your favorite activities?—i used to love helping my mother garden.
As a child, what kinds of personality traits did you display?--I cried a lot more than I do now. I was always scared, as I knew from a young age that my father’s parents wanted me dead.
As a child, were you popular? Who were your friends, and what were they like?--My only friend was really Eli, but she hung out with all the kids from town, so i vaguely knew them.
When and with whom was your first kiss?--also Eli, when we were about 12 and 13.
Are you a virgin? If not, when and with whom did you lose your virginity?--I’m not. After Eli left town I kind of lost myself for the next two years until I became a knight.
Part 3: Past Influences
What do you consider the most important event of your life so far?--My mother's death perhaps?
Who has had the most influence on you?--Eli. I think if not for her, I would be a very different person.
What do you consider your greatest achievement?--The amount of nobles I’ve insulted to their faces on official magic knight business.
What is your greatest regret?--being born.
What is the most evil thing you have ever done?--I don’t think I’ve ever done anything “evil”, only some malicious things, but I don’t regret them.
Do you have a criminal record of any kind?--No, but I probably should for extortion.
When was the time you were the most frightened?--The first attempt on my life.
What is the most embarrassing thing ever to happen to you?--My elder brother catching me lying about my profession.
If you could change one thing from your past, what would it be, and why?—i would be stronger.
What is your best memory?—probably the first few months with the black bulls. It was genuine happiness for the first time in a while.
What is your worst memory?—the aftermath of my mother’s death. I don’t remember the actual event, some mix of trauma and head injuries, but I do remember the weeks following.
Part 4: Beliefs And Opinions
Are you basically optimistic or pessimistic?—i think i’m more pessimistic, but i'm trying to be an optimist.
What is your greatest fear?--My greatest fear is once again being too weak to protect the people that I love.
What are your religious views?--I’m not religious.
What are your political views?--I think that the Clover Kingdom’s nobility is corrupt, and the whole system needs to be fixed.
What are your views on sex?--I think nothing much of it.
Are you able to kill? Under what circumstances do you find killing to be acceptable or unacceptable?--I think I’m a hypocrite on this. I think killing is unacceptable, but I wouldn’t hesitate to kill the people that harm the ones I love.
In your opinion, what is the most evil thing any human being could do?--In my opinion, the most evil thing one can do is to habitually hurt and abuse others.
Do you believe in the existence of soul mates and/or true love?--No. I don’t think that anything like that is real.
What do you believe makes a successful life?--I think that money plays a large part of success.
How honest are you about your thoughts and feelings (i.e. do you hide your true self from others, and in what way)?--Very open. My emotions are very easily read.
Do you have any biases or prejudices?--Yeah i hate nobles.
Is there anything you absolutely refuse to do under any circumstances? Why do you refuse to do it?--I try to stay out of the public eye as best I can. I also refuse to do jobs near my grandparents’ home.
Who or what, if anything, would you die for (or otherwise go to extremes for)?--Finral or Eli. I’d do anything for them.
Part 5: Relationships With Others
In general, how do you treat others (politely, rudely, by keeping them at a distance, etc.)? Does your treatment of them change depending on how well you know them, and if so, how?—I try to keep people at a distance, but when I become close to someone, they become one of my People. I’d do anything for the people I’m close to.
Who is the most important person in your life, and why?--Right now, it’s probably Eli or Finral. They’ve positively affected me in more ways than I can count.
Who is the person you respect the most, and why?—Captain Yami is the person I respect the most. Joining the Black Bulls changed my life so much for the better, and I’m so grateful that he gave me that opportunity.
Who are your friends? Do you have a best friend? Describe these people—Eli is my best friend. She’s loud and always smiling, but I worry about her. I’m also pretty close to Magna. He’s a great friend and brings out my mischievous side more.
Do you have a spouse or significant other? If so, describe this person.--Finral is great. He’s a little goofy, but he is very loyal and loving.
Have you ever been in love? If so, describe what happened.--I think I’m in love right now.
How close are you to your family?--I’m very close to my older siblings.
Have you started your own family? If so, describe them. If not, do you want to? Why or why not?--No. I think I’d like to at some point be a mother, but not for a while longer.
Who would you turn to if you were in desperate need of help?--I think I would find it hard to turn to anyone, but if I was so desperate, probably Eli or Magna. I’m too afraid to show Finral my weakness.
Do you trust anyone to protect you? Who, and why?--No. I need to be strong enough to protect myself.
If you died or went missing, who would miss you?--I think that the bulls would.
Who is the person you despise the most, and why?--My father. My mother spoke kindly of him, but he abandoned her.
Do you tend to argue with people, or avoid conflict?--I argue more.
Do you tend to take on leadership roles in social situations?—depends who I'm with, but I’m more likely to take a leadership role.
Do you like interacting with large groups of people? Why or why not?—I’d prefer a smaller group, personally, but i’m not bad with large groups.
Do you care what others think of you?—yes. immensely
Part 6: Likes And Dislikes
What is/are your favorite hobbies and pastimes?--I enjoy reading romance novels, and spending time in nature. Flower fields remind me of home and give me comfort.
What is your most treasured possession?—my pocket watch. my mother gave it to me, since it was a gift to her from my father.
What is your favorite color?—i like warm pale yellow
What is your favorite food?—I like crepes!
What, if anything, do you like to read?—I like to read romance.
What is your idea of good entertainment (consider music, movies, art, etc.)?--I enjoy reading. On days off, I often spend hours at a time sitting outside and reading.
Do you smoke, drink, or use drugs? If so, why? Do you want to quit?—I generally don’t, but I will drink sometimes. I probably drink an average amount.
How do you spend a typical Saturday night?—generally hanging around the Bulls hideout. If I have a day off I often go visit home to see my mother’s grave and give her flowers.
What makes you laugh?—My squadmates! I’ve been told my sense of humor is bad..
What, if anything, shocks or offends you?--I hate the prejudices of the Clover nobles.
What would you do if you had insomnia and had to find something to do to amuse yourself?—When that happens (because it has before) I will usually walk around the base, sometimes I eat a snack. I also like to head outside and look at the stars when I can’t sleep.
How do you deal with stress?—I will usually end up letting it out, whether emotionally or magically. I don't like to bottle things up.
Are you spontaneous, or do you always need to have a plan?—I prefer having a plan.
What are your pet peeves?—people talking over others.
Part 7: Self Images And Etc.
Describe the routine of a normal day for you. How do you feel when this routine is disrupted?--I wake up at about 7 every morning, and get ready for the day. If I have a mission, I’ll leave for it early. On days I don’t have a mission, I will either go visit my mother’s grave or go see my grandparents or their advisor.
What is your greatest strength as a person?--I’d say my strength is supporting people. And also throwing lava.
What is your greatest weakness?--I lie a bit too much, and I am a bit indifferent towards people I don’t care about.
If you could change one thing about yourself, what would it be?--I would want to be more caring.
Are you generally introverted or extroverted?--I’d say introvert.
Are you generally organized or messy?--Organized. I don’t like disorder.
Name three things you consider yourself to be very good at, and three things you consider yourself to be very bad at.--I’m good at lying, cleaning, and fighting. I’m bad at controlling my emotions, sewing, and cooking.
Do you like yourself?--No, I really don’t.
What are your reasons for being a magic knight*? Are your real reasons for doing this different than the ones you tell people in public? (If so, detail both sets of reasons…)--I am a magic knight because I want to protect people.
What goal do you most want to accomplish in your lifetime?--I want to heal from my past.
Where do you see yourself in 5 years?--I hope to still be a Magic Knight, and hopefully a higher rank.
If you could choose, how would you want to die?--I would want to die swiftly if I could choose.
If you knew you were going to die in 24 hours, name three things you would do in the time you had left.--I would try to isolate myself from the people I love, so that they wouldn’t have to deal with grief. I think I would generally be calm.
What is the one thing for which you would most like to be remembered after your death?--I want to be remembered for my strength.
What three words best describe your personality?--open. loyal. decisive.
What three words would others probably use to describe you?--Rosie is loyal, smart, and loving!!-Eli
#black clover#black clover oc#bc oc#oc rosemary#my art#fhdjksfhk this took so LONG im dying jim#im also doing this Whole thing for eli but shes nowhere near done yet#nini ocs
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I don't mean to be rude, and I apologize in advance if I am!! But why do you ship this nd WHY does this ship exist? Aren't Elsa and Anna sisters? And blood related at that. I don't want to hate on ships, you can ship washer you want as long as you aren't hurting anybody!! It's just that ships like these with incest startle me a bit. Maybe I'm just confused since I really shipped Kistof and Anna so I'm missing out on this? Ahhh sorry if this is annoying!! -confused anon
Hi Confused Anon ( aren’t we all? ;) ),
Thanks for your polite ask, lol finally I get to dust off this blog’s ask box! :)) I’d love to respond with a whole essay xDD but I don’t really have time :’( so maybe I’ll just give a quick rundown for now.
I might not be the most representative person to pose this question to lol because I am an outlier in general, meaning due to my life experiences, my development, my major in college, my deep meditation practice, and more, I do not abide by normative, dominant, hegemonic social structures and social constructs (nor do I actively resist them per se), so I am unfazed by anything.
I started shipping this after I watched the first movie when it came out in Nov. 2013. One of my first posts on this blog, 7 years ago, was me explaining how I came to ship this (I had made the post private, but now you can read it here. Also this other post, but I wrote it when I was a college student, so it’s a little too analytical for my tastes now. Those were my views at the time). 7 years is a long time, so my mindsets and reasonings have changed, but all the reasons I had for shipping them from before are still with me today.
I didn’t go into the movie with the intention to ship them, but while watching it, I picked up on a lot of chemistry between them because their interactions and even storyline were infused with strong popular romantic tropes, tropes that were used in other classic Disney movies themselves. I used to watch a lot of romantic comedies so I was very familiar with common romantic tropes. Of course, having came away from the movie having noticed all these romantic notes between them, I was a little confused and thought maybe it was just me. But when I went online to search a bit to see if others saw/felt what I saw, I found out it wasn’t just me!
So one of the reasons why this ship exists is because people picked up on the romantic tropes that colored some of Elsa and Anna’s interactions, tropes that have usually only appeared between romantic couples, in films and in real life. Even if the creators didn’t intend to and didn’t actively put the tropes there, they are there.
If we apply the principles of Buddhism (not the religion. Many ppl mistakenly practice things as devotional worship or for superstitious reasons. But if ppl really want to know everything about the mind, how the world works, the universe, who they are, about themselves and “other” people and why people do what they do, the meaning of life, true happiness, the end of suffering and stress and conflict, and consciousness, then forget psychology [not saying it’s not useful though]. Buddhism, or rather Buddhadharma, is the true science of mind, or at least the much more effective tool), it says that there is the law of cause and effect, the universal law. Everything that is created in the universe and each phenomenon that happens is the result of the momentary coming together of causes and conditions that make that thing happen. There are many many causes and conditions and intricacies and things are interconnected and interdependent, no one person can control something to happen (certain conditions have to be there for something to happen). Something can not come from nothing. If something happens, then certain causes and conditions have been created to bring that result. A seed was planted. If we plant an apple seed, what comes out will be an apple tree (provided the right conditions were met, like water, soil, sunlight, etc.). It will never come out as a banana tree. And so we can understand the underlying principle behind how each situation and phenomenon arises, about existence itself, why each thing exists.
Now WHY did I go off on that tangent??? LOL All of this is to say that certain causes and conditions have been created to result in the effect of many people shipping Elsa and Anna together and there being a fandom for them. (These principles and explanations might seem very simple and like kindergarten stuff, but despite that, many people can’t accept it. ESPECIALLY when it applies to heavy stuff in their regular everyday life. Or even trivial things tbh lol) The last I checked, there were people from at least 26 different countries shipping Elsa and Anna together.
Everyone thinks they see reality exactly as it is and takes it for granted, and thus attach strongly to the notion that they’re right. But if that’s the case, then why are there so many fights over who is right? So who is actually right? Even if someone were to follow the majority consensus or some popular, ingrained, long-standing ideas / societal rules, it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re right. There are many cases of the blind leading the blind. People used to follow the geocentric model of the universe before they discovered heliocentrism. Ideas are always in flux and keeps changing and transforming, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, sometimes imperceptibly and sometimes conspicuously. If you ask 100 different people why they ship Elsa and Anna, you will get 100 different answers (with a lot of overlap of course) with unique spins on their reasons. Because in the world, each person sees reality through their own color-tinted glasses and filters and adherence to labels, concepts, beliefs, upbringing, etc. And then the person seeing “reality” through red-tinted glasses gets mad at the person seeing with blue-tinted glasses for not seeing the world how they see it (and gets frustrated not understanding why), and vice versa. In this scenario, what is actually best? To realize you’re seeing “reality” through color-tinted glasses, and so you should take them off and truly see reality without any filtered lenses. (This is a little off-topic, but I had to bring some Buddhism into this because first of all, dharma applies to everything lol, and secondly, Buddhism is all about dispelling confusion. There is definitely a way to see reality exactly as it is, it typically involves meditation.)
Yes, Elsa and Anna are sisters. But I’ve never seen any pair of sisters act like them before (if there are, then that’s great!). I have a sibling myself, and we are very close, but we don’t act like how Elsa and Anna act with each other. With most siblings, I would say there’s a lot more joking around, teasing each other, sarcasm, pranks, and casual relaxed communication than the intense intimacy, deep eye-contact, and soul-bonding that Elsa and Anna share. Disney has portrayed many other sibling relationships before, but it seems like they tried something a little different with Elsa and Anna’s relationship that made it pretty easy for many people to ship them together.
I ship Elsa and Anna together because their pure true love for each other transcends all labels, concepts, preconceived notions, and time and space. They are completely selfless when it comes to one another and that’s what true love means. They make each other better people and it empowers them to extend this selflessness toward other people. Their sacrificing themselves for each other and selflessness in action is true love exemplified. No one deserves Elsa more than Anna, and no one deserves Anna more than Elsa (speaking from my shipper heart xD). Confining and defining their love as just sisterly seems limiting and not allowing the full potential of their true, expansive, infinite love to manifest. (A sibling relationship is really beautiful, but it still has to be shaped and look a certain way, it has to fit into a particular mold and box and abide by certain conditions. Otherwise, as we have incontrovertibly seen, people will scream bloody murder and be squicked out and all hell will break loose.)
We can even go one step further to say that the same similarly applies to people’s definitions, notions, concepts, ideas, and beliefs about love. They say this love is like this and that love is like that, this is what love should look like, this person can love this person but only if it’s like this and not like that, this is what it means to love and to be loved, etc. Again, it’s limiting, and placing restrictions on something whose essence is boundless. In Buddhism, with the realization of Enlightenment, one realizes that true love is selfless, unconditional, boundless, free, all-encompassing, nondual, timeless, compassionate, wise, nondiscriminating, infinite, universal, endlessly flowing, non-judgmental, creative, indescribable, and inconceivable. So THIS is the love that I see and ship between Elsa and Anna. I love their relationship as sisters, but their love is so grand that it cannot be contained inside that label, so it transcends and goes beyond any attempts to neatly define and characterize it.
It’s okay if incest ships startle you. Uncomfortable feelings come up whenever the ego experiences anything that challenges its worldview and everything it’s ever known and held to be true, and that prompts it to question and reconsider its mind-constructs. We have a knee-jerk reaction to grasp, hold, and attach to what we like, and to avoid, reject, and push away what we don’t like and what makes us feel uncomfortable. For what it’s worth, Buddhism tells about the cycle of life, death, and rebirth from beginningless time, so we have all lived infinite past lives and been each other’s lovers, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, friends, enemies, grandparents, etc. at one point or another. (Deep, but intriguing!, topics for another time.)
If you really like to ship Krist0ff and Anna, then go ahead and ship happily. First rule of Buddhist meditation: Whatever you do, ONLY DO IT, 100%. ;) And if you don’t do something, then don’t do it, 100%. And then move on to the next moment. Be in the present moment. And remember that everything is changing moment by moment. Mind is changing moment by moment. Don’t need to anticipate the next moment. Who knows where our shipper hearts will take us.
I like to ship people based on their chemistry and characterization. Elsa and Anna have a great true love story that is theirs and theirs alone. I don’t like to ship relationships that seem contrived, thrown in there for the sake of it, not fleshed out, lacking in substance, trite, and with characters who are underwhelming or underdeveloped.
Lol no worries, this is not annoying, I’m sorry this is so long and that I took 7 days to get back to you. I wish I could give specific examples from the movies with beautiful gifs to explain why I ship them (I’ve probably written such posts in the past. Maybe I’ll come back to edit this reply one day), but I’ve gotta skedaddle! I’d like to hear your thoughts about my reply if you actually read this, so please send me a message in the ask box again if you can.
Also I’m a girl if that makes any difference, but yeah anyway, skedaddle time, love you all!
Oooooh I never finished replying to someone else’s ask box message asking me why I shipped them, it’s from years ago :’(, I started typing my reasons and saved it in my drafts, but it’s incomplete. But here’s what I wrote at the time!
1. I just love everything that Elsa and Anna feel and do for each other. Elsa isolates herself from Anna to keep her safe, and Anna persists in trying to get Elsa to open up to her and goes to find her when she runs away. They’re always thinking of each other and worrying about each other. They act selflessly for one another and their unconditional love is expressed so genuinely. This kind of devotion in any relationship is rare.
2. There was a lot of chemistry between them in the movie. At the coronation ball scene, I get that the creators were trying to depict awkwardness between them since they haven’t spoken in a long time, and Anna wanted reassurance that Elsa didn’t hate her so she was nervous about getting Elsa’s attention and approval, but the scene came off as Elsa being kind of suave and flirty and Anna being flustered because her crush just complimented her. Then Anna gave Elsa a playful smile when she was dipped upside-down as if she only had eyes for Elsa.
When Anna stares admiringly at Elsa as she stands atop the staircase, it was like a scene straight out of A Cinderella Story or Enchanted where the prince stares at his true love like she took his breath away.
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Um... /post/188248925631/dick-and-damian-dont-love-each-other-more-than Explain, please. Also curious about your opinion on the Dick and Damian being the mirror of Bruce and Dick, especially things like That scene in Nightwing #20 and fanon's heart nut material that is Dick being Damian's father figure along with brother.
LOL that was a goof post that basically is just another way of me saying “stop making the Batkids have favorites, let them all love and appreciate each other just in different ways.” With the fact that Dick and Damian tend to interact with each other more comfortably than with their other siblings not being proof of favoritism, but rather just...a lot of the same things and experiences appeal to them in very similar ways, so they have plenty of available bonding activities at any given moment.
Like I see them both as adrenaline junkies in a way that say, Tim perhaps isn’t....like Tim isn’t afraid to do any of the things he does as a vigilante, of course, but he’s a more cerebral character, more of a thinker, happy surrounded by computers and data and investigation files as much as anything else...whereas Dick and Damian I both see as very physically oriented people, they like action, danger and excitement that gets their blood pumping and adrenaline going, like....on its own merits.
So they’re like “HELL YEAH, LET’S DO THE THING” when the thing isn’t always the most....logical course of action, but hey, at least they’re not gonna be bored, lol. Y’know?
As far as Dick and Damian mirroring Bruce and Dick....I both agree and disagree with it.
I disagree in the sense that canon and fanon frequently views them as an INVERTED mirror of Bruce and Dick, with Dick as the happy Batman trying to cheer up the brooding Robin Damian, as opposed to when Bruce was the brooding Batman cheered up by his happy Robin Dick.
Because I think that devalues Bruce and Dick’s VERY early relationship, the inception of it, the foundation of their bond....and perhaps ironic given how critical I am of Bruce and his badly written or acted upon parenting a lot of the time....I think this perception of Bruce and Dick undercuts some of Bruce’s BEST times as a parent to Dick, specifically.
Because Bruce WASN’T just a dark, brooding Batman for most of the time Dick was Robin, historically speaking. Before the late 70s/early 80s, which was also around the time they started transitioning Dick out of Batman’s sphere and into his own role as Nightwing and most associated with the Titans, like....before all that, Batman tended to be as silly, tongue in cheek, and yes, even cheerful, as he was at times dark and brooding. Like, in pre-Flashpoint stories that trace back to Dick’s early years, Bruce SMILED, even when in the cowl. He laughed, he joked, he called Dick by personal endearments. He was PATERNAL and affectionate.
And given that in pretty much every version of his origin story, and like....in logical view of the events that unfolded in it....Dick himself did not START as a cheerful, happy go lucky Robin without a care in the world. He was traumatized, he was grieving. Depending on which origin you go with, he had massive trust issues, in all origins he has abandonment issues....early Dick Grayson had a darkness every bit as much as anyone else, because he was a lost and grieving child trying to find his way in the world with his usual support, lifeline, the familiarity that had defined so much of his early life in the form of his parents, his friends, his circus....like all of that was gone, and he had to start over in terms of finding things good and worthwhile in a world that had taken all of that away from him.
And it was Bruce who helped him do that. Who was HIS light, HIS brightness every bit as much as people tend to credit Dick with being his, if not more. Like, I would argue that it was NEVER that Dick made Bruce lighter and happier by simply being himself and always being cheerful and joking. More accurately, I’d suggest that it was more that Dick made Bruce lighter and happier by giving him reason to make a conscious CHOICE to be those things...for Dick’s benefit, specifically, so as to help steer Dick away from becoming a replica of his darkest and most brooding self, by setting a more carefree, light-hearted example for Dick to look at and use to help decide how he wanted to shape himself and what he wanted to shape himself into.
So the irony is, I think Dick and Damian are MORE of a mirror to early Bruce and Dick than people actually deem them to be. That they weren’t actually an inverted mirror, with Dick always playing the role of the cheerful inspiration that brightened his counterpart’s demeanor. I see it as Dick occupying the exact same role Bruce did in Damian’s life, leading him by example, out of his own personal darkness, the way Bruce had once done for him...no matter what differences came between them later in life.
The part where I DO think they’re actually an inverted mirror of Bruce and Dick, is in the paternal bond between Dick and Damian, that fandom highlights so consciously. Its not that Bruce wasn’t paternal, as I said earlier. Its more that like....there was always that slight distance or buffer (that grew as Dick grew older) that came about because of the uncertainty between Dick and Bruce as to what they actually were to each other, what label to use for each other....friend, brother, partner, father/son? And I do firmly believe that as the adult and guardian, it was Bruce’s responsibility to take the lead in establishing what they were to each other...or at least, what they COULD be, if Dick wanted it to be.
Like, I mean, the popular take is that Bruce never adopted Dick as a kid because he didn’t want to replace Dick’s father in his eyes. But like, there’s all of one story in pretty much their entire history when Dick ACTUALLY says anything like that himself...and its back when he’s like, ten or eleven, and they’re trying to keep him in Bruce’s custody and so like, a judge is forcing ten year old Dick to like....put a label to them himself. And Dick is many things, but presumptuous on his own behalf has NEVER been one of them, so I have super negative feelings towards that always being pointed at as why Bruce didn’t adopt Dick as a kid and saying see, it was for Dick’s benefit because he was just doing what Dick wanted....like, no. An orphaned kid who lost everything once, has massive abandonment issues, and ended up taken in by a billionaire who gave him more than he could have imagined....like that kid is NEVER going to be the one to push the envelope and say “hey this isn’t quite enough for me, could you please also adopt me, Bruce, even though you’ve never given me any clear indication that this was okay with you or something you even wanted?”
Like. Its just not realistic. Or fair to put that on the kid, to be the one to open up that avenue for exploration. This is why people who foster or adopt older kids are HEAVILY stressed to make clear to the child like....what their OPTIONS are. Like if they foster them initially, its not presuming anything about the child’s wants to just....make it clear that hey, if this is ever something YOU want, we would be very much open to adopting you and changing our dynamic accordingly, but if not, that’s fine too.
Kids just aren’t going to have the confidence to ASK for that. They’re just not. Especially when they come into the relationship with the kind of emotional baggage and familiarity with total upheaval that Dick had.
So my point being....I don’t think it was ever truly that Dick wanted to not be adopted, or expressed or hinted at that in any way. I think its more likely that Bruce projected his own wants on Dick, based on the fact that he initially identified with him and his circumstances so much, seeing himself reflected in Dick’s tragedy when losing his own parents. I think Bruce’s hesitancy to raise the issue of adoption when Dick was a kid was far more likely to do Bruce assuming Dick wouldn’t want that....because Bruce projected himself into DICK’S shoes, and based on THAT, operated off of what HE would have wanted as a kid....which was to NOT see his parents replaced in any real way, even though Alfred of course was very much a paternal presence throughout his later childhood.
So its not even that Bruce didn’t want to adopt Dick either - I think he very much did. He just told himself that Dick wouldn’t possibly want that, because Bruce couldn’t imagine have wanted that himself when he was Dick’s age, in Dick’s situation. And so Bruce held back from ever really raising it while Dick was a kid, because he was afraid he’d only get rejected if he did....again, just based purely on his personal assumptions and history.
The irony, for me, and why I see this as an inverted mirror to Dick and Damian’s bond....is that I think once Dick was in Bruce’s shoes....he did the EXACT SAME THING BRUCE HAD DONE....just in the other direction. He, just like Bruce had with him...projected himself into Damian’s shoes, and based his decisions off his assumptions about what Damian wanted or would want....which were in turn, based on his memories of what HE had wanted when he was the one in Damian’s position. Which was for Bruce to fully act like a father to him, to not hold back or hesitate or be afraid to step into that role.
So because of that, Dick tried to avoid what he saw as responsible for so much of the distance between him and Bruce - that hesitancy to establish a clear relationship and bond that left no real doubt how either felt - and so he in contrast all but threw himself into the paternal role with Damian...also using it at the same time to hide from his own grief and other issues stemming from Bruce’s death as well as having to be Batman. He EMBRACED being there and available as an actual father figure to Damian, if Damian made moves in that direction - which of course Damian inevitably did, because he was a kid desperately in need of affection, and here Dick was offering it freely and openly.
I think this additionally played into why Dick was so resistant to believing Tim about Bruce - it wasn’t that he didn’t WANT Bruce to be alive or that he didn’t trust Tim or WANT Tim to be right....it was that on some level, because of what he saw as so crucial to being for Damian’s benefit, and to avoiding making the same ‘mistakes’ with Damian that he felt Bruce had made by holding himself back from him at times, emotionally....Dick couldn’t afford to see himself as a placeholder in Damian’s life. Especially not without any guarantees that Bruce actually was alive or could come back....let alone how long that would take to happen. If he did that, accepted that, it would be all to easy to put off establishing that firm presence and role in Damian’s eyes for longer and longer....until one day he might look up and years might have passed and Damian was sixteen and pissed off and moving out because he didn’t know what he was to Dick and Dick was afraid to tell him, because he was afraid of replacing Bruce in Damian’s eyes.
So I think on some level, Dick just couldn’t allow himself to believe Bruce might come back, because if he did that, he wouldn’t be able to commit to what he truly, honestly felt Damian needed him to be, for Damian’s sake.
With the end result being that strong father/son seeming bond between them....and Dick not having ANY clue how to handle it when Bruce DID ultimately come back, and he probably went in his head....oh shit, I fucked up, I replaced Bruce in Damian’s eyes, or at least made it weird or difficult for them...I gotta get 1000 miles away from here STAT, otherwise I’ll fuck things up for them more and they’ll never have the father/son relationship I want them to have and they deserve to have, and it’ll be all my fault. And PS no this does not have anything to do with my devastation that I went all in on this whole ‘treating Damian like my own son’ thing and now I can’t do that anymore, I have no real claim, that’s not my place and I gotta just make my peace with Bruce occupying the role I came to want and love having myself.
*Shrugs* So yeah. All of that.
Oh and also....it does feed my ire on the ‘treating Dick like he’s only sorta Bruce’s son because of the smaller age gap between Dick and Bruce and how young Bruce was when he took Dick in’ front. Because Dick and Damian have just as small an age gap and Dick was pretty much just as young and Damian just as old as Bruce and Dick had been, originally...
And yet notice how fandom has NO trouble characterizing Dick and Damian having an almost father/son dynamic even WITH Bruce still present and even WITH them only having occupied those roles in each other’s lives for a year.
But meanwhile, Dick raised solely by Bruce from ages 8 through the end of his childhood, and some people still can’t wrap their heads around how they could possibly be TRULY a father and son to each other because this reason or that one?
Meh. Sounds fake. Hard pass. LOL.
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connective tissue - mlandersen0
this is my piece for the fantastic Slenderverse Zine (2019). this was a pleasure to write, and i am honoured to have been a part of such a wonderful project. you can check out the zine here, and read this fic on AO3 here.
a quick disclaimer - i hope it's quite clear that i do not support the views which the character Shaun Andersen expresses in this fic. this is an exploration into mental health stigma, the entitlement of neurotypicality and the damage which can come about from both sides of any relationship within which someone is suffering because of mental illness. i am not interested in any discourse. please take this fic for what it is, and if you disagree, feel free to write your own. likewise, please heed the content warnings.
thanks, and i hope you enjoy <3
cws: mental health, mental illness, ableism, sickness, anxiety, depression, blood, twins, abuse, therapy, gore, terror, horror
Shaun’s parents often address him in the same breath as talking about Michael, as if the two are immutably connected, their meaning solely defined by virtue of each not being the other. But the parental Andersens could not always retain this facade of equality in front of their youngest child. No, Shaun found the documents when he was ten, long after Michael’s departure.
At the time, the words he found staggered him with polysyllabic ambiguity:
Monochorionic.
Parasitic.
Anemic.
But one phrase unfurled its roots and lodged itself into the squishy whorls of his brain.
The night of the discovery, little Shaun Andersen ran screaming into his parents’ bedroom, tears and terror marring his face the way fresh understanding of horror always does. When his mother hushed Shaun, held him close and begged him to explain what was wrong, the boy’s answer made the colour flood from her face.
All too soon, Shaun found himself confronted with yet more walls: walls so staggeringly bleached that, to Shaun, the paint served not as a reminder of cleanliness, but of spores and fungi and bacteria, swelling into turgid contaminants ready to burrow through his skin and pick his bones clean.
“Twin-to-twin transfusion syndrome,” the therapist reads from her notes. She smiles at Shaun, with too many teeth. “Where did we hear such big words, hm?”
Shaun keeps quiet. In the time since Michael left, the value of silence impressed its qualities upon him. The art of disquiet is something everyone knows about, but few possess the gall to produce. Shaun maintains fixed eye contact with the therapist, while revelling in the security offered by his glasses. There’s a plastic quality to her dimples: an artificial construction of pleasantry that only a child could see through.
She doesn’t care about you.
Shaun believes there’s relief for both of them when the light goes out of her eyes.
“It’s okay, Shaun,” the therapist says. Her voice quavers noticeably. “I think you’re a very smart boy. You’d like me to tell you the truth, wouldn’t you?”
I think you want to tell me the truth and not have to deal with me, Shaun thinks. The therapist continues on regardless:
“Sometimes, when people have babies, things can go wrong. The baby might come out sick, or a bit different.”
The therapist watches him for a response. Shaun tries his best not to blink. Her mouth twitches.
“When a mom has a baby inside, the baby gets their food from an organ called the placenta. It’s kind of like a phone charger — it gets plugged in to the wall of the mommy’s tummy, and when she eats, nutrients from the food are transferred to the baby. These nutrients are transferred by blood. Do you understand?”
You’re talking to me like I’m an idiot. This doesn’t feel professional at all, is what Shaun Andersen understands. How old does she think I am?
“With twins, sometimes they share one placenta, instead of having one each. And sometimes, blood gets passed between the twins.” Her face creases, like she’s recalling something unpleasant. “This can mean that one twin doesn’t get enough blood — they’re called the ‘donor’ twin — and the other gets too much blood, making them the ‘recipient’ twin.”
The therapist actually looks away before going on, and Shaun is sure it has more to do with practiced decency than genuine upset.
“Michael received the blood your other brother didn’t get.”
It sounds like she’s reading from a script. Maybe she prepared this. Wanted to scare me and take me off guard so she can get into my head. I’m not going to say a damn thing. Fuck her.
“I’m sorry you had to find out the way you did, Shaun.” The therapist’s mouth twists in a grim approximation of sympathy. “But it’s just a fact of life.”
A fact of life that Michael devoured his twin in the womb.
It’s only now that he’s in some lightless attic, face-down on the floor with his skin prickled against the cold, that this wash of memories coats Shaun with their accusatory foam. There’s a peculiar, pickling scent prodding at his gag reflex; this room reeks of mold and misery. It’s as if the air itself is frothing from an unseen mouth. For Shaun, this triggers a memory encased in nausea. A taste identical to the sour pills the therapist gave him that day spills onto his palate: anti-anxiety medication.
Shaun vomited the first batch he took, so he ceased taking them all together. Instead, he replaced each pill in his medication box with chalky, pastel candy, and made a big show of swallowing one in the morning and one in the evening.
He’s just like Michael, really. As long as there are witnesses, he’ll put on a show.
Splinters impale the meat of Shaun’s mouth, and sawdust cakes his tongue. He hacks and coughs, and writhes on the floor. His knees manage to find purchase in the gloom, but his muscles tremble and quiver with the effort of kneeling. He’s been bashed and bruised, dragged carelessly and tossed aside like a used rag. Tenderised meat before the slaughter.
And Michael’s going to be the same.
Shaun’s breath pulses out in panicked bursts. He can just about see his exhalations curling away in the freezing cold. No, he can’t be this weak — he must shove it back, quash the feeling. He’s worth more than this. If he goes back on the things he said to Michael now — horrible, hateful things — then he’ll never be able to live with himself.
So Shaun breathes steadily, working his way around the anxiety attack the way his therapist never showed him. As his heart rate steadies and adrenaline drops, all that energy and fear circumvents his guts, and heads a frontal assault on his brain. This leads to a conclusion burning through his mind with perfect clarity
This is all Michael’s fault.
Shaun never knew the name for whatever disease ravaged his brother’s mind. Not that he ever asked. The less he knew about Michael’s... abnormalities, the better. He remembers phrasing it that way to his parents, when he finally said no to another trip to see the remains of their estranged son.
Each week flowed the same way: stilted conversation between siblings, and pained platitudes from their parents. All meaningless little words of encouragement deliberately skipping over the elephant in the room — or, rather, the room containing the elephant, with its queasy walls and claustrophobic bars on the windows. No one in there ever used words like crazy or sick — in fact, they gave you a sheet of words to refrain from using when in the presence of the patients. All the relatives and guests of the inmates were expected to behave in this fashion.
This nauseated Shaun. He knew his brother was still in there. And he knew better than anyone how Michael liked to play his little games.
Regardless, Shaun tried his best to make Michael talk, and find something recognisable in the muddy depths of his eyes. But every visit, the dark deepened. No matter how many toys he tried to share, no matter how many stories he’d try to tell, and no matter how many times he affirmed to Michael that they were best friends and one day he’d get out of the hospital so they could play again... he stayed the same.
The final straw comes one dismal, rainy Friday afternoon. Shaun and his dad sit next to each other, opposite Michael with a table acting as barrier between them, saying nothing.
An aide took them both aside before they entered the main facility, and explained that Michael is being trialed on another type of medication. The visit is going as miserably as the weather foretold.
Michael looks barely human. Something is altered in the familiar shape of his body, like a bent coat hanger hastily reformed into an approximation of its original structure. The older Andersen brother slumps back in his chair, his skin several shades whiter than the wall behind him. His mouth is cracked with dehydration, and his hair is tangled with sleeplessness and grease. But worst of all are his eyes. They sit listless and devoid of comprehension, with blank pupils gazing aimlessly at his family, through them, and beyond them. A candle snuffed out before shrinkage of the wick.
Shaun remembers the emptiness of his therapist’s eyes. The glee in outwitting her. The pleasure of looking into those sad, brown depths.
There is no joy in peering into Michael’s skull.
Without warning, Shaun’s temper seizes him with all the ferocity a young boy’s hormones could. He slams his clenched fist down on the table, rattling metal. All conversation in the room ceases, a veil of corpselike silence.
Michael, however, doesn’t react. He doesn’t even acknowledge the sound.
The words jump from Shaun’s mouth like oil from a sizzling pan, murderous in their venom.
“You’re such a freak.”
Before the aides can reach him, Shaun’s dad grabs him by the shoulder and yanks him out of the room, into the hallway. Shaun can tell he’s furious, but there’s so much anger pumping through his blood that he just doesn’t care. He needs to do something, anything, to puncture the film over Michael’s eyes. Anything to make him so much as flinch.
But Michael remains unaffected.
As expected, the facility removes them both immediately, and Shaun is given a one-month visitation ban. This doesn’t bother Shaun in the slightest — in fact, he feels victorious, and righteous in his fury. There’s no way he’s coming back. Not this time. Michael squandered his last chance.
Even so, he’ll never forget his last view of that room, before his father pulls him away.
Tears spilling freely down Michael’s stony face.
From then on, the pre-trip talk with his parents is a minefield to navigate. They try so hard to make everything light and cheery, to speak about Michael like he’s still a part of their family, but Shaun overhears them speaking about their visits when they think he’s not listening. Now, more often than not, Michael’s arms are bound throughout their visits. Other times, they’re only able to converse with their son from behind a pane of tough glass.
Sometimes, they came home early.
‘Oh, Mikey’s feeling a touch under the weather today,’ their mother chirps. ‘But he says he misses you lots and lots!’
Her happy tone belies the true quality of their visit. It doesn’t matter. Shaun never asks for further details. Eventually, Shaun is old enough that his moods are ascribed to the terrors of puberty, and he is left to his own devices.
In retrospect, the seven years between Shaun’s Michael-detox and their first meeting as adults seems superfluous. The difference the years wrought upon Michael shocked Shaun.
Where once there existed a timid, chubby little kid with the brightest of smiles, now stood a gangly, hollow-looking man, with eyes like pits of coal. Though the corners of Michael’s mouth upturn upon seeing him, Shaun doesn’t register any warmth.
Somehow, this infuriates Shaun more than his brother’s tears ever could. He’d always assumed that even though his brother is older, Michael would remain the same size — adulthood somehow being barred for the mentally ill. Resentment boils away in Shaun’s stomach seeing how much taller his brother is, how clean-cut his features are. But this isn’t the thing which incenses Shaun the most.
It’s that, in those eyes, those chasmic clefts gouged out in his pale flesh, Shaun saw quiet patience.
Intelligence.
Forgiveness.
Just the mere hint of any kind of pity from his brother makes Shaun’s thoughts curdle with rage. How dare he be okay? He’s supposed to be sick! Isn’t that the whole reason why he got locked up in the first place?
Shaun knows these are irrational and angry thoughts, but would rather cut out his own tongue than internalise them as ‘unfair’. He slaved away the better part of his life playing second fiddle to his parents’ worry and concern, always visiting Michael, paying more attention to Michael... all while their favourite son plays the part of a theatre dummy.
So Shaun makes the decision there and then. He is under no obligation to take care of this man forced upon him by blood — but he will. He will be the most selfless, compassionate human being his brother has ever seen.
Then they’ll see who has the right to forgive.
The walls of the attic Shaun can’t see feel like they’re closing in on his aching body, dragging themselves closer with hidden, noiseless claws. If you hadn’t lied about seeing the Tall Man, he wouldn’t be as sick as he is, his thoughts hiss, and he thinks that the walls are growing mouths and speaking to him, indicting him, readying to pluck his head from his shoulders and smack it on a pike.
Yet, as his fear increases, tiny increments of light make themselves known in Shaun’s vision. Eventually, he’s able to zero in on a shape just out of each — something large and mostly crimson, with a long curved blade extending from its middle. Sickly, distended panic courses through Shaun like a white-hot fever when he recognises the shape.
It’s a fucking chainsaw.
The enormity of the situation crashes into his nervous system. He’s being laid out, prepped and ready for consumption. Oh God, he drugged me to tie me down and cut me open, and then he’s gonna go find Michael and do the same thing-
Keep it together! Express some reticence, for fuck’s sake. You’re not going to break down. You’re not going to give in. Michael’s the one who hurt you, kept hurting you, all this time. Without him, you would have a real family. A home. A future. Not biting the dust spilled on some dank basement.
The attic betrays nothing but the acrid stench of death. People have died here. People have been tied up and carved open like autopsy specimens, all for the gain of their sadistic owner. Shaun, despite his terror, continues to squint at the weapon.
You’re about to bite the dust anyway...
When Shaun sees the blood staining the steel, he screams.
Another flashbulb memory comes searing into his head: his brother’s wafer-thin form keeling over in the snow. That chokehold of panic throws Shaun into immediate action, forcing him to run and cradle the body of his brother. He’s so desperate and terrified, not knowing if this is really Michael, what this body could be capable of...
And yet Shaun grabs hold anyway, all grudges suddenly forgotten, and oh fuck it must be Patrick, because his nose is bleeding and his limbs are as heavy and wet as the white beneath their boots. Shaun hauls him the best he can, inwardly cursing his lack of strength, and as he drags Patrick over to the frozen table he can only pray his mental fortitude is made of stronger stuff.
“I came here to apologise.”
“Really.”
The sarcasm pours out of Shaun without a second thought, so heated it almost scorches the icy air. But there’s no way he could ever dam this wave of fury.
‘There’s still a lot you don’t know...’
It takes everything Shaun has to not to let his poker face flicker, but the rage beneath makes him want to seize Patrick by his lapels and bash him against a wall. How dare he. This freakshow of a bodysnatcher can’t even keep his brother’s body alive and well long enough to stand up while having a conversation, and yet has the nerve to patronise him?
Shaun hears, ‘I’m sorry for Stormy,’ as if from the other end of a tunnel. All that’s brewing in his head is the conundrum sitting in front of him. Two personalities, one body. They’re interchangeable now, one and the same. Twice the twin, half the skeleton. Michael, playing patient zero to a contagion which wrecks and wrings until bloodied flesh is all that’s left behind. Patrick, a disease forged in the womb and soaked into the being of a boy who could have been something different.
Should have been.
Never will be.
No one could reconcile the two but Shaun.
So it must be a sickness, an illness, a disease. And everything bad that ever comes from sweet Michael’s mouth is a result of his condition.
If that’s the case, is it so awful to want to be as far away from them — from him — as possible, whoever — and whatever — he is?
Patrick is only sharing the broken-down condo which remains of his brother’s body.
Taking back his stolen property.
And where does that leave Shaun?
As the unspoken martyr, of course.
There’s only so much room in my head for bullshit, Shaun seethes. I’m not going to live my life cleaning up after him — not for Michael or Patrick.
And that’s it - that’s the one thing that people never let him have. The realisation which hits upon their return to the motel, where Michael cowers beneath the words spat from Shaun’s molten mouth. He always possessed a thought process blessed by rapidity, but a tongue cursed to be silver. Shaun is nothing but a host to a panoply of pain as essential to him as his own veins.
As essential as the blood flowing between Michael, and the brother he never met.
When Shaun storms out into the cold, determined to be somewhere, anywhere that puts great distance between him and the entity Michael/Patrick Andersen, he feels the full force of the Virus, nesting, breeding, multiplying beneath his skin. There’s no room for guilt and worry and pain — just the cure.
To never be near his brother again.
When Shaun saw Patrick’s nose bleeding, he had to swallow back bile. He knew in an instant that their brother never left, not really. Once, connective tissue held the bonds of their brotherhood fast. The transfusion continues. The real question is — who is the donor, and who is the recipient?
Even his own family emphasised the importance of their blood-bond, unable to comprehend Shaun’s behaviour.
“He’s your brother, Shaun, and he needs your help,” his mom tells him one night, barely holding back the tears. “I know he can be difficult to deal with, but this isn’t his fault. He didn’t ask to be sick.”
And Patrick didn’t ask to die, Shaun wants to scream. No one blames Michael for cannibalism, do they?
Now he’s facedown in the wood, sawdust clinging to the hot streaks his tears leave behind, and that mortifying image which plagues his nightmares comes looming large from the recesses of his mind; two twin boys, floating without care in a shared amniotic sac, their umbilical cords respectively attached to the same fleshy hunk in lieu of a beating heart.
Shaun feels like his foetal never-brother. Severed. Shrink-wrapped in his own sac, the very thing keeping him alive. And then eventually swallowed whole.
It’s time for Shaun to cut the cord for good.
Why couldn’t you just be normal? The tears start for real now, fat and salty and rolling down Shaun’s face in a tempest. His internal monologue is louder now, drowning out the background noise of his softer (yet much more insidious) conscience.
Stormy would still be here if you weren’t so fucked up... I could have had a normal life if it weren’t for you...
There’s no time left for forgiveness. Because of Michael... Patrick... because Shaun willingly exposed himself to this pathogen again and again, he is going to die here, in this glacial attic, with no one around to know or care.
But, as the lights are turned off, and a dark, unfamiliar laughter fills his every sense, a set of horrid thoughts riot in the screeching crowd of his brain; the thoughts that could never quite be buried.
Michael didn’t know what he was doing... Michael didn’t know what he consumed…
Shaun once made the mistake of asking his mom what his other brother was going to be called.
No-one ever asks to be infected.
Shaun’s eyes shut against the darkness for the last time.
“I always liked the name Patrick.”
#mlandersen0#the andersen journals#slenderverse#michael andersen#shaun andersen#patrick andersen#slenderversezine#quinnwrites
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really LONG CHARACTER SURVEY. RULES.
repost , don’t reblog ! tag 10 ! good luck !
TAGGED. I stole it. TAGGING. Go for it. lol
FULL NAME : Arthur M/organ NICKNAME : A handful. English, Cowboy/Cowpoke, Black Lung, etc. Common aliases are Tacitus Kilgore and Arthur Callahan. AGE : 36. BIRTHDAY : January 25th, 1836. ETHNIC GROUP : Caucasian. NATIONALITY : American. LANGUAGE / S : English, primarily. Knew a handful of Welsh thanks to his father, but it’s faded with disuse. SEXUAL ORIENTATION : Bisexual, somewhat closeted. ROMANTIC ORIENTATION : Biromantic, somewhat closeted. RELATIONSHIP STATUS : Verse dependent, single-ship with @notanoutlaw in most. CLASS : Lower/working HOME TOWN / AREA : Arthur just mentions he was born “up north”, I headcanon around the Oregon area, possibly California due to his mother’s favorite flower, but it’s uncertain. Though, the place he laments the most about is New Austin, or “out west”. CURRENT HOME : Transitory, he moves with the gang. PROFESSION : Outlaw, occasional bounty hunter.
PHYSICAL. HAIR : Light brown, dark blonde in some lights. EYES : Unique eye colour, blue-grey-sorta hazel. NOSE : Average, dimpled. Scarred from fighting and getting it broken a couple times. FACE : Somewhat sharp features in the brow and cheekbones, square jaw. LIPS : Full, can be dry/chapped. COMPLEXION : Somewhat clear? Hard to tell. Dry, dirt spattered sometimes. BLEMISHES : Uncertain. SCARS : A handful. Most notable are the one he has on his chin that is most visible with shorter facial hair, one across his nose, and the one left on his shoulder by the O’Driscolls in chapter 3. TATTOOS : N/A HEIGHT : 6′0, possibly 6′1 WEIGHT : Uncertain, fluctuates. BUILD : Stocky, broad shouldered and he can be fairly intimidating, especially when his weight is about average or above. FEATURES : Look above? ALLERGIES : N/A USUAL HAIR STYLE : Right parted, about 3-5 in length. Though, for people who don’t know the system--fairly short, tufts out around his ears and may reach the back of his neck before he cuts it again. USUAL FACE LOOK : Expression wise, his kind of got a resting irritated face, sometimes bored. Rarely clean shaven unless he has to be, usually keeps a fair amount of stubble. USUAL CLOTHING : I change him too much to say. Tends to keep his heavy navy blue winter jacket, jeans/ranch pants, some sort of button up shirt, and sometimes his tan leather jacket. Tends to keep his hat, however, unless he needs to go without.
PSYCHOLOGY. FEAR / S : Arthur has a mild one of change. He’s adaptable but he’s very sentimental and nostalgic, he will miss “old ways” and previous places. There’s also losing his usefulness, disappointing those who depend on him (much as he will get defensive when it happens). Post-Guarma, he does develop a fear of drowning. It won’t keep him from swimming, but getting swept or held underwater may cause some panic. Post-game au, he does fear about getting sick again and actively avoids doctors. ASPIRATION / S : Uncertain, just wants to get out of the mess he’s in and eventually just wants a calm existence somewhere. However, once he’s diagnosed with TB, his main goal is getting those who want/will listen to him out of the gang as it starts to fall down. POSITIVE TRAITS : Caring, compassionate (to people he knows, might not be clear on first impression), intelligent (much as he may say the opposite and isn’t exactly book smart), observational, brave, humorous (in certain situations and may be a cover sometimes), friendly (somewhat, changes as he ages), artistic, creative, loyal, etc. NEGATIVE TRAITS : Violent, murderer (doesn’t do it without reason but he knows he’s killed more than he certainly should), defensive, (passive) aggressive, sarcastic, depressive, self-deprecating, selfish, rude (sometimes intentional, sometimes not), conflicted, stubborn, reckless (sometimes, has mellowed out with age but it’s still there), self destructive (sometimes), money-driven (not always a flaw but he’s easily swayed by money). MBTI : ISFJ-T - Turbulent Defender ZODIAC : Aquarius TEMPERAMENT : Phlegmatic-Melancholic ANIMALS : I’m not going to take the quiz because the game is very heavy handed with the whitetail buck motif for high honor Arthur. lol VICE HABIT / S : Smoking, drinking, etc. FAITH : Non-religious. GHOSTS ? : Generally, the existence of ghosts isn’t something he completely writes off after he’s witnessed the few in the game, but he’s also hard pressed to admit to believing in them outright. AFTERLIFE ? : Not in any sort of defined sense. He’ll often say he doesn’t believe in one or it won’t be a nice one for him if there is, but he finds himself nervous about the subject once he gets sick. REINCARNATION ? : He doesn’t know enough about it. ALIENS ? : Not really? Doesn’t really know he’s looking at a UFO when he sees it. POLITICAL ALIGNMENT : Don’t start. ECONOMIC PREFERENCE : Uncertain. SOCIOPOLITICAL POSITION : Uncertain. EDUCATION LEVEL : Does not have a formal education on even the basic levels (primary, high school, etc), however Hosea and Dutch have taught him to read and write and he’s learned a handful of things when it comes to survival and his lifestyle. However, he’s not exactly book smart or the “book learnin’ type”.
FAMILY. FATHER : Lyle M/organ, deceased. MOTHER : Beatrice M/organ, deceased. SIBLINGS : No blood related, but considers John as one along with a couple other members of camp. EXTENDED FAMILY : He has a few uncles, aunts, and cousins, but he’s not in touch. Issac, his son, and his mother, Eliza, who are both deceased. Mary L/inton/Gillis, ex-fiance. (Cain Kennedy, lover - @notanoutlaw) NAME MEANING / S : Arthur - English, “noble, courageous”, Morgan - (and I’m going against what’s been said in fandom) - Celtic/Welsh surname, comes from Old Welsh name Morcant - “mor” as “sea” and “cant” as “circle”. HISTORICAL CONNECTION ? : Uncertain in the game, but it’s been pointed out about King Arthur and also Morgan le Fay, which highlights his struggle with good vs evil themes in his character.
FAVOURITES. BOOK : Uncertain, mostly non-fiction. MOVIE : -- 5 SONGS : -- DEITY : Doesn’t know enough to give a favorite. HOLIDAY : Christmas, in a way. Not quite for the religious context, but he enjoys the hunting and cooking the gang does to celebrate, singing and talking over fires. He remembers it vividly when he was younger, so it’s stuck with him. MONTH : April-May. SEASON : late spring, early summer. PLACE : He likes most places in wilderness, give him something with a view and he’s good. WEATHER : Sunny, average weather. Not too hot, not too cold. SOUND : Rain, birds, etc. SCENT / S : Again, rain, campfires, etc. TASTE / S : Prefers savory over sweet. FEEL / S : Weightlessness in his limbs once he’s able to sit/lay down after a long day, fingers in his hair, etc. ANIMAL / S : Horses, dogs, cats, animals. NUMBER : He hasn’t given it much thought. COLOUR : Blues, greens, deeper colours.
EXTRA. TALENTS : Sharpshooting, Arthur’s got impeccable aim and speed when using guns, there’s also his drawing, he’s getting fairly good at tracking, etc. BAD AT : Admitting to mistakes, expressing himself emotionally, adhering to rules, anything overly scientific, etc. TURN ONS : Sense of humor, confidence or self-assurance, kindness and/or compassion, dark hair, etc. TURN OFFS : Hypocrisy (much as he suffers from that himself), cockiness (has a limit before confidence becomes a turn off), excessive or needless cruelty, etc. HOBBIES : Drawing, writing in his journal, hunting, wandering around/sight seeing, etc. TROPES : Anti-Hero/Anti-Villain,The Atoner, The Big Guy, Jerk with a Heart of Gold, Obfuscating Stupidity, etc. AESTHETIC TAGS : Horses, old west, deserts, nature, gun slinging, writing, drawing, photography, etc.
FC INFO. MAIN FC / S : R/oger Clark, mainly in game icons so I haven’t found a need for one. ALT FC / S : -- OLDER FC / S : -- YOUNGER FC / S : -- VOICE CLAIM / S : R/oger Clark GENDERBENT FC / S :
MUN QUESTIONS. Q1 : if you could write your character your way in their own movie , what would it be called , what style would it be filmed in , and what would it be about ? A1 : I actually REALLY enjoy the game’s story line, much as I feel the redemption through death is overplayed and not as deep as people make it out to be. I’d find a way to subvert that or some alternative, but idk. I like the game’s story. lol
Q2 : what would their soundtrack / score sound like ? A2 : Western-y. IDK? The game’s soundtrack is actually really good too so. Q3 : why did you start writing this character ? A3 : I love his development and progression as a character, and even with the trailers where he seemed no more than an angry outlaw there was a part of me that was still “hmm” about writing him. Ultimately, he’s grown to mean a lot to me and I really enjoy writing for him on this blog. Q4 : what first attracted you to this character ? A4: As mentioned above, Arthur probably has one of the best character progressions I’ve seen in a while imo. Even in the beginning, I went in under the impression that I’d be playing as this outlaw so the violence and gruffness wasn’t too much of a surprise, much as I wasn’t too attached until later chapters in the game because of this. However, as I spent more time playing as him and reading his journal, seeing how he interacts with strangers and people he loves, he has some depth to him and some deep rooted flaws and insecurities that are played very well in the game. He’s probably one of the few character deaths I’ve cried over. lol Q5 : describe the biggest thing you dislike about your muse. A5 : I have to be truthful, Arthur’s an asshole. lol I didn’t like and still don’t like him from Colter into Horseshoe in behavior and personality, much as it’s lessened from my first play of the game because I know what happens to him and how he grows. However, while he’s not blind to himself and how he acts, he doesn’t think for himself really. Even if he hates debt collecting, he does it for the gang and even tells Strauss he does it for pleasure at a point (sarcastic or not, considering they are talking about Thomas, a man trying to raise money for charity while suffering poverty himself on top of having TB), he does whatever Dutch tells him, among many other things. It’s not until later in the game that the theme of grasping redemption comes into play, and he starts to act and think for himself a little more once things start to spiral. As much as I love him with all my heart, Arthur’s got some deep flaws that are hard to ignore. Q6 : what do you have in common with your muse ? A6 : HHHhh. I’d say we suffer from similar self-esteem issues, not just in body image but morality of character (much as his are way more complicated than mine jaksfha), we also have a similar sense of humor...Yeah, idk. I’m attached to him as a character and I can relate to him in certain ways, but it’s hard to pinpoint. Q7 : how does your muse feel about you ? A7 : Idk, he’s pixels? Though, for the sake of a fun answer, I genuinely don’t know? We can be fairly similar in mannerisms and thought process (at points), but I have no idea if we’d actually get along if by some universe rip we were able to meet. Q8 : what characters does your muse have interesting interactions with ? A8: I don’t want to get specific, I interact with a lot of interesting characters. Anybody who’s put me out of a comfort zone or forced me to look at Arthur in the different way has definitely stood out. Q9 : what gives you inspiration to write your muse ? A9 : The game itself is a good source, I enjoy putting up lets plays of it in the background sometimes if I’m struggling or just need something that isn’t music. I get more muse putting together blog playlists than playing them, but there’s that, too. Also generally plotting or talking about him can pull some to the forefront. Q10 : how long did this take you to complete ? A10 : An hour or so, I think?
#hey i'm already damned . || about .#ain't us who changed . || headcanon .#/// long post#[I love how once it got into paranormal experiences I had to account for the fact some of those things exist as things in canon lmao]
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MBTI and the Seeds
Religious bullshit, meet personality bullshit. I took to 16personalities for a direction on this and was actually pretty convinced by the majority of the results (which is whack because 16personalities almost always gets at least one letter off), but I have an unfathomably large amount of information about this test stored in my grey matter so I’ll be hopping off a bit to fill in my own blanks. Also notable is the severe trauma each of the Seeds have been through
This is going under a cut because it's a long post and honestly might be more worthwhile as a reference for myself and how I write the Seeds, but I can’t be the only personality nerd in this fanbase.
Jacob Seed: ISTJ. The Logistician
I wasn’t sold on this one initially given that Jacob seems far more comfortable with out of control situations than most Js generally are, but I find the overall profile fits him better than ISTP. My explanation is that his time in the juvie, the military, and the foster system has forced a maturation of this particular function due to constantly feeling out of control, which makes him more open to adaptation than he would have been otherwise.
Strengths:
Honest and Direct: Notably Jacob is arguably the least manipulative Seed. He “tricks” you in a sense with the conditioning but that is more a strategic concealment than any deception. Unlike the other three, Jacob does not pretend that his actions come from any sense of love or divine calling. He is always straightforward with the deputy, even if that doesn’t restrain his cruelty.
Strong-willed and Dutiful: Basically see all of the Book of Joseph, as well as his “you think I care if I die” comments. I lump very responsible under this.
Calm and Practical: I don’t think I have to explain this part. Jacob never reacts from an explicitly emotional place. The “did you think you were free” is the closest to losing his temper I think we see from him. He has expectations, and failure to meet them will be punished. He doesn’t see a need to get emotional about it, preferring to detach himself
Create and Enforce Order: Well, culling the herd is an unconventional tactic, but...
Weaknesses:
Stubborn: As Joseph said, Jacob has been getting into it since he was a kid. Even with the brother, he’s willing to die for, he explicitly argues with him. And even in the face of his own death, he refuses to rescind his own philosophy, or even demonstrate any regret for the path he’s chosen.
Insensitive and Judgemental: Jacob’s a shithead no I will not elaborate
Always By the Book: an illegal paramilitary cult, yes, but one that holds to Jacob’s exacting standards.
Often Unreasonably Blames Themselves: Loath as I am to woobify Jacob at all, there’s a pathos to him. As Joseph says, he thinks of himself as a “weapon without a purpose. A soldier without a legacy”. As a child, he protected his siblings and as an adult, he views himself as little more than a meatshield. There’s a sense that he objectifies himself, reduces himself down to simply the function of violence and protection, and those high standards mean that he views death as simply another failure.
can bastard be a personality type
Joseph Seed: ISFP- The Observer
The test originally gave me INFP, but I find that unconvincing for two reasons. One, INFP’s are predominantly defined by an open-minded approach to life and to ideas, which doesn’t fit well with a guy so convinced he got religion right that he was willing to kidnap and murder people. Two, while Joseph is definitely contemplative and deals with the symbolic, his “visions” are not flights of fancy but are in some sense practical. He doesn’t really appear to engage in thought experiments, merely interpret sensory (or in this case extrasensory) information that he is presented with.
Strengths:
Charming: The man runs a successful church for a reason, and it can’t just be good cheekbones and dogwhistling
Sensitive to Others: Joseph has a keen insight into other people’s emotional state, which is what makes him so effective at manipulating them. He tends to meet people where they’re at with a certain deftness that would be impressive if he didn’t use it the way he did
Passionate: about the LORD. No, but I’ll give this to the man, he’s certainly got a vision, and sticks to it with intensity.
Curious: I think anyone working in the business of people has to have an inherently curious mind, and while Joseph may believe he has all the answers, his fascination with the Deputy to me indicates that he has an inherent draw to things that disrupt his world. I also think about how he would get in trouble as a child for seeking out forbidden material, such as Spiderman comics. those Satanic webs...
Weaknesses:
Fiercely Independent: He’s developed a supportive community now but Joseph has always marched to the beat of his own awful, awful drum, which has gotten him kicked out of at least one job and lost him at least one set of foster parents. He doesn’t seem to need people as much as he acquires them
Unpredictable: Sometimes with blood, sometimes with forgiveness, it's hard to say how Joseph will respond to disruption on any given day. Where the spirit leads, I suppose.
Easily Stressed: This one I’ll actually argue that his turbulent history and the demands of his job have at least taught him to cover this up, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t cracks in the armor. “yOU HAVE TO BELIEVE ME!!!!!”
Overly Competitive: He’s a sore loser with a tendency to punish people for failing him (see: Faith and the statue)
Fluctuating Self-Esteem: He’s dealing with a joint worldview where he is at once God’s chosen and a “no one from nowhere with nothing”. How much of that is genuine we may never know, but I don’t think the fluctuation is outside the realm of possibility
John Seed: ESFJ-The Consul
I was a little on the fence about N vs S but ultimately found that John’s a bit more concrete than conceptual.
Strengths:
Strong Practical Skills: I mean, the man orchestrated a hostile takeover of an entire county, he knows how to get things done when he wants
Strong Sense of Duty, Very Loyal: This part is likely underdeveloped given how tempestuous forming relationships was for most of his life, but given how bound he feels to Joseph its clearly in him.
Good at Connecting With Others: He’s a shitstain, but according to Joseph he had business connections everywhere and was basically a walking secret storage bin. John can probably be very charming if you don’t know how he spends his weekends in the bunker.
Sensitive and Warm: again, underdeveloped given his background, but there’s clearly a lot of emotions broiling just below the surface given how volatile he can be and how easily Joseph can access them. Joseph also describes him as a very sensitive kid, for what that’s worth
Weaknesses
Worried About Their Social Status: The boy is a climber
Inflexible: He holds pretty firmly to his headcanons on Hope County (for fuck’s sake John Nick’s sin isn’t Greed, its Sloth) and has a very definite view on how things should be. Not to mention he seems very particular, just based on the state of his home and his clothes. He has rituals and habits, and will not deviate.
Vulnerable to Criticism: If you say anything about his future receding hairline he will cry. He just will. Not to mention I’m citing that look he gives you when you’re apparently costing him paradise by not converting
Often Too Needy: He will either get attention or he will die trying.
Too Selfless: Honestly, selfless isn’t the right word here, but I’ll copy the way 16 personalities describes it because I think it fits really well for John. “ Consuls sometimes try to establish their value with doting attention, something that can quickly overwhelm those who don’t need it, making it ultimately unwelcome. Furthermore, Consuls often neglect their own needs in the process.” John is a deeply selfish person but he does act like someone who tries to get affection by giving everything of himself, often to the point that he makes the other person uncomfortable.
I literally love this dramatic edit it's so good
Faith Seed/Rachel Jessop: ENFP-The Campaigner
I have nothing to add, it just fits. At the most, I think Faith is a little more pragmatic than she lets on (given that whole “if violence is the only language you choose to speak”) but to me, that can easily be an extension of the ENFP’s ability to connect emotionally. It means they know how to cut people off
Strength
Curious: I mean you don’t end up in a cult willingly without a little curiosity. Faith also seems mildly intrigued by the Deputy’s resistance, and while this eventually culminates in frustration with our intractability, I believe there’s a genuine investment in the journey to conversion
Observant: Faith is cued into her public perception, both from the resistance and the cult, and consciously constructs it. She also shares Joseph’s ability to tune into emotions and exploit them.
Energetic and Enthusiastic: How much of her ray of sunshine persona is constructed for the benefit of converting people will probably never be answered, but I don’t believe it can be constructed whole cloth. I think Rachel always was a person with a lot of heart and enthusiasm for her passions, even if it's not as constant as Faith Seed wants you to believe
Excellent Communicators: There’s a reason she’s regarded as the Siren. She can talk people into things even they don’t want to do. Certainly left me shook
Know How To Relax: *insert weed joke here*
Very Popular and Friendly: Again, her Siren persona may not be 100% genuine, but you can’t fake that level of charisma
Weaknesses:
Poor Practical Skills: Listen, Rachel is smart as hell (definitely smart enough to develop a drug and orchestrate mass production thereof), but her planning skills? Not great. Up until Burke gets taken out of the Bliss her plan seemed to be “talk with the Deputy over and over until they change their mind”. She kicks it up a notch after she finally gets annoyed with us but it seems a bit more “making it up as she goes”, and she falls back on strategies that have worked for her before but aren’t really effective for the Deputy. In fairness, I don’t think any of the Seeds are strong in the planning department
Overthink Things, Get Stressed Easily: Unlike with John and Jacob, Faith doesn’t really let us in to see her darker side. She prefers to speak of her flaws in the past tense. Yet clearly anxiety has been an issue in her life, given how deeply her isolation sat with her and her sense of worthlessness. Using drugs as an escape from stress also makes sense for her character, at least from my perspective
Highly Emotional: Faith communicates in emotional terms, manipulates people through emotions, and unlike someone like Jacob Faith loses her temper. She shouts at us, demonstrates her frustration very openly, even screams at us that we couldn’t possibly understand her.
Independent to a Fault: Her personal history gives her some interesting codependent issues with Joseph but based on what we hear of her from Tracey Rachel resented anyone trying to control her, even if they had her best interests at heart, and was perfectly willing to burn bridges over people questioning her choices.
If people are interested I can develop these out more. I may eventually do these for the police force members too but frankly, we’re given less to deal with for them, in particular with Joey and Staci, so who knows.
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I gave a talk in sacrament meeting today and I just felt like sharing it here :) It’s not perfect, but I felt like it went pretty well.
The Savior has called us to feed His sheep, to care for our Heavenly Father’s children, in whatever situation we may find them. Ministering to them as He would do if He were here, and in so doing helping them and ourselves on our journey to become more like Him.
But there is a difference between providing food for the sheep, and lovingly leading and guiding them they way the Savior would. There is a difference between acting out of a sense of duty and purpose, and acting out of love. The key is charity.
I recently returned from a mission, and in my mission we had a motto we would repeat along with the missionary purpose which stated “as missionaries, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is at the center of our lives and our love for Him is the reason for everything we do.” We said this to remind ourselves that it wasn’t about the numbers or the checkboxes or the little tasks to fill in the day, it was about Love for the Savior and Love for our spiritual siblings. This motivation helped to see further, beyond the everyday obstacles to the eternal goal.
When we minister to those around us, we cannot do so with short term vision. When visiting a brother or sister who hasn’t come to church in a while, we cannot go into that visit thinking that in 30 minutes we are going to reactivate them: They’ll come to church next Sunday and not miss a week after that! When we visit people with such a short term view, we ignore the complex nature of life, and often get frustrated, ending our efforts to minister prematurely and leaving the sheep out in the cold, feeling that they didn’t want our help anyway.
In a recent talk from Sister Joy D. Jones, she shares a story of a family she and her husband were assigned to visit. They arrived with cookies and smiles and were promptly and clearly sent away. It was evident that this family did not want to be visited. Now, it would be perfectly understandable if Sister Jones and her husband had not had the desire to continue visiting them. This family didn’t seem to have any intention of ever returning to church, so what was the point? Why bother them with something that they didn’t want?
But, rather than let discouragement overtake them, Sister Jones and her husband consistently continued to visit, and she tells us “After many months of our standing on the doorstep, the family began letting us in. Eventually we had regular prayer and tender gospel discussions together. A long-lasting friendship developed..”
There are a few key phrases in this paragraph. Those are “after many months,” “eventually”, and “long lasting.” Sometimes we may hear stories like this, and expect our results to come as quickly as it sounds there’s did. After all, we have the pleasure of hearing the conclusion of this story after a few short paragraphs. But in reality, it took months of standing on the doorstep, rejection after rejection, before they could even get inside. And then, I imagine there were many rejected or awkward prayers, stunted conversations, uncomfortable silences, and unwelcome gestures of friendship before the families began to see one another clearly and understand the individual struggles of each of their lives. It was only then that a long lasting friendship could begin to develop.
Another factor that I think is key is that Sister Jones doesn’t end this story with, “and then 5 years later the husband became a stake president and his wife was the relief society president” or something similar. Sometimes that is how these stories go, and it’s wonderful when they do. But Sister Jones doesn’t even tell us if this family became active in the church. What she does give is us a story of people who spiritually edify each other by building real friendships and taking the time to understand one another.
That is the goal we need to have when we minister in the Savior’s way. Obviously it would be nice if they would come to church, we want all our siblings to partake of the ordinances of salvation because we’ve seen how they bless our lives, and we would love to see our friends at ward activities and service projects. But that is not the point, it is not the goal, of ministering in the Savior’s way. The goal is to help people know that they have people who care about them, who will care about them through whatever they go through, whatever they choose to do. That they have a family beyond their blood relatives and that they have people they can call if they ever need help or feel lost or just need to talk.
It is for this reason that the Savior counseled the Nephites in 3 Nephi 18 “ye shall not cast [them] out of your synagogues, or your places of worship, for unto such shall ye continue to minister; for ye know not but what they will return and repent, and come unto me with full purpose of heart, and I shall heal them; and ye shall be the means of bringing salvation unto them.”
We don’t know what is in store for anyone, all we can do is love them and be a support to them and help them know there is a place for them here if they choose to accept it. But that if they don’t accept it, we are still their friends. There are countless accounts throughout the scriptures about Jesus Christ which state that He “was moved by compassion” or “had compassion on him.” His motivation was always love. He never did a miracle out of a sense of duty or hoping to get something in return, He ministered to those around him because He loved them. Plain and simple.
In Elder David A. Bednar’s talk More Diligent and Concerned at Home, he discusses Home Evenings. He describes the rather rambunctious and chaotic atmosphere that often existed while he and his wife raised their children, and the exasperation they felt that “the righteous habits [they] worked so hard to foster did not seem to yield immediately the spiritual results [they] wanted and expected.”
Have we ever felt like this as we try to minister to people? I know that I felt it as a missionary. Feeling like the gospel truths I tried to teach my friends got lost in the chaos of their lives, and the doubts and trials the adversary threw at them.
Elder Bednar continues, saying that he believes what his sons remember about their chaotic home evenings would not be what one might expect. “They likely would not identify a particular prayer or a specific instance of scripture study or an especially meaningful family home evening lesson as the defining moment in their spiritual development. What they would say they remember is that as a family we were consistent.”
In our efforts to minister: whether by assignment or in our friend and family relationships, may we always be consistent. Whether the person that we care about is going through a rough time, or if they seem to be on top of the world and without need of our attention, we should always show by word and deed that we are true friends, so when they time comes, they know they have someone to turn to.
On my mission, I had a particular district leader who would end each and every conversation reminding my companion and I that we could call him if we needed absolutely anything. He would further clarify that, although some people just say that, he was being serious. He would say this after every interaction, without fail. My first couple of transfers around him I thought it a bit silly and over the top, although I appreciated it, and we never really took up his invitation but it was nice to know he cared.
A few months later, I was serving around him again, and he had never stopped with his reminders. This time I was in a trio, and me and my two companions each had very serious and specific trials we were facing - physically, mentally, and emotionally - and we knew exactly who to call. Because of this Elder’s consistent show of care and concern, even during times when it didn’t seem entirely necessary, when the time came that we needed help we knew we had a true friend to turn to, and a worthy priesthood holder to administer blessings in times of need.
It is my wish that we can all reach this point with our friends and family. As disciples of Christ, may we each be known as the person who will always be there for those in need.
In his talk “Concern for the one” Elder Joseph B Wirthlin speaks of three possible reasons that some of the sheep are lost from the flock. I want to take a moment to say that sometimes, we can’t tell who might be in danger of getting lost. Maybe you see them at church almost every Sunday, they showed up to the last ward activity and you’re pretty sure they bore their testimony last fast Sunday, or maybe it was the month before that…. Either way, President Eyering learned that it is wise to remember “when you meet someone, treat them as if they were in serious trouble, and you will be right more than half the time.” Not to say that we should all treat each other as if we are seconds away from a breakdown, but show love, care, and compassion in all of our interactions.
The first reason some get lost from the flock is that they feel different. As Elder Wirthlin put it “They may look, act, think, and speak differently than those around them and that sometimes causes them to assume they don’t fit in. They conclude that they are not needed.” He goes on to say, “The Lord did not people the earth with a vibrant orchestra of personalities only to value the piccolos of the world. Every instrument is precious and adds to the complex beauty of the symphony.”
Christ taught in Luke 17:1 “It is impossible but that offenses will come; but woe unto him through whom they come.” The world is a difficult enough place for those that feel different and left out -whether because of race, sexuality, disability, or experience - if there is one place these people need to feel they belong, it is in our sacred meeting houses, and in our even more sacred homes. We each need to do our part to eliminate offense from among us. We must examine ourselves, asking “is there anything in my conduct that could make someone feel unwelcome here?” and then we must ask for the Lord’s help to rectify any wrongs that we discover.
Another reason Elder Wirthlin teaches that some may feel lost because they are weary. They feel they have given much and made little difference. He reminds all of us “Even when you feel that your strength can add little, the Church needs you. The Lord needs you.” When we minister to our loved ones, we can help them recognize their own unique talents and strengths. Sometimes we mistakenly think that ministering to someone must be all about their needs and weaknesses. When we take this approach, sometimes we can augment feelings of inadequacy, as if the person is a burden to those around them. Instead, a very important factor in ministering in the Savior’s way is giving people opportunities to realize how strong and capable they really are. Whether by asking for help ourselves - and showing that we trust them - or inviting them to help us serve others, when those we love know they are needed and appreciated, their understanding of their divine potential grows.
The third reason for getting lost that Elder Wirthlin discusses is straying. Some people make decisions that lead them away from the gospel of Jesus Christ. To those who are concerned for a loved one he counsels. “Love them. Be kind to them. In some cases, they will return. In others, they will not. But in all cases, let us ever be worthy of the name we take upon ourselves, even that of Jesus Christ.”
We have a divine responsibility to minister to all of our Heavenly Father’s children. As we study the life of the Savior and the words of his inspired messengers, we can learn how to more authentically love others in the way He loves us.
(Talks I mentioned:
Sister Jones: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2018/10/for-him?lang=eng
Elder Bednar: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2009/10/more-diligent-and-concerned-at-home?lang=eng
Elder Wirthlin: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2008/04/concern-for-the-one?lang=eng)
#restoredchruchofchrist#the church of jesus christ of latterday saints#church#religion#tumblrstake#queerstake#ministering#love your neighbor#charity#we all belong to the family of God
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I still believe that Grima could get along with the Corrins because (putting aside the fact that they didn't raise their child themselves) they are dragons as well. Even more important : how would Grima react to discovering they were basically lied to their whole youth by all their family members, and that it puts them in a position where they don't really know who they are, even after Revelations ?
I think you’re oversimplifying both Grima’s relationships and the full issue at hand here.
First, the fact that the Corrins are dragons has nothing to do with his ability to get along with them. Remember: Naga’s a dragon and there are very few things Grima hates more than her. So much of why he gets along with the dragons in general is because they’re either young and open to viewing him without prejudice (Fae, little Tiki, Myrrh, Nowi) or have suffered at the hands of humans themselves (the Corrins and Ninian – adult Tiki falls into this broadly and has also suffered at Naga’s hands, so he’s very sympathetic to her plight). But there are humans who have gone through the same: Raigh (young, obsessed with dark magic, and lost virtually everyone he’d cared about when invaders burned down the orphanage where he’d been raised), the Robins (hunted by Grimleal, reviled by Ylisseans for being Plegian), Henry (dumped in an abusive orphanage where he lost most of his ability to even feel pain or express emotion), the Nohrian royal family (Concubine Wars combined with Garon’s abuse and neglect), Julia (lost her whole family – witnessed her twin brother murder her mother and then had to assist in her brother’s death)…there are a lot of Heroes that Grima can either sympathize or empathize with, and every day he’s learning more, making new connections, and becoming the Hero Kiran has always known he could be.
Also, I never said that Grima and the Corrins couldn’t get along – in fact, prior to the Kanas’ arrivals they got along quite well (again, I have another ask, I just keep getting things in my inbox that will take less time to answer so I’ve been doing them first so I can devote my attention to the big headcanon dump once I’m in the clear). I said they had a falling out – and nothing in the definition of that term requires that the relationship end. Is Grima upset? Yes. Would he consider cutting all contact? Probably, because when he gets angry his thinking gets rigid. But lucky for him, there are other forces that help to rein him in and force him to re-evaluate things – namely Kiran and Robin.
So as furious as he would have been in the moment (especially after finding F!Kana alone and in such distress), raging that the Kanas need better, need more, need to be kept away from the ones who did this to them, the tactician and the Summoner would have challenged him at every step. Look how much the Kanas admire their parents. Think of how distressed they’ll be if they can’t see them ever again. You’d be making things worse for them rather than better if you cut off all contact (again, Robin would stress, because clearly they’ve been separated by their parents’ presence in Askr for quite some time). And Grima doesn’t want to hurt them – that’s the last thing he wants to do. So he softens, giving the Corrins every opportunity to step up and take responsibility and prove themselves capable of doing better. And as they do that, their relationships can and will mend. But it will take time and effort.
And last, it’s not the fact that they didn’t raise the Kanas themselves. If they had given the Kanas up to be adopted, seen them placed in loving homes, Grima would have had absolutely no problem with that – in fact, he would have empathized with the pain of that loss and respected the fact that they did it with the Kanas in mind. His issue is the fact that they dropped their infants in the Deeprealms, said they’d visit, and then went back to war. They left their children waiting and yearning for parental affection at an age where they needed it most. The damage has clearly been done: F!Kana gets so distressed that she cries when she’s alone, and M!Kana is pushing himself to grow up well before his time for the sole purpose of winning his mother’s attention. And it’s upsetting to see that.
So now with all of that out of the way, let’s talk about the lying.
Grima is no stranger to having people lie to him. He’s spent the vast majority of his life being told half-truths or manipulated by pretty words and sob stories. And he loathes it. He finds it manipulative, selfish, even cruel, to knowingly mislead someone, especially if it’s for personal gain and at another’s expense, like what happened so often during his stint as the ‘divine’ watching over Plegia. With that said, while he does take a dim view of how Hoshido handled the issue, ultimately he will admit that it was done with good intentions, to ensure that Corrin was protected and provided for. Nohr he takes a harsher view on, considering that they kidnapped Corrin and effectively wiped their memories; however, he doesn’t lay that blame on the Nohrian heirs, just on Garon and those who controlled the situation. The princes and princesses clearly did their best for the new sibling they adopted as one of their own, and he respects and frankly admires that they chose to take Corrin in without hesitation, making them an integral part of their family in spite of the fact that they were in truth a foreign prisoner.
Grima does not believe that anyone, human or dragon, is defined by their birth. He feels that he, himself, is a product of humanity’s cruelty: his level 40 dialogue spells it out directly (”Humans are selfish. And the ugliness of mankind has turned me repulsive. It’s the world that wants me to be evil.”). So to his mind, where Corrin was born and who their blood relations are isn’t important. The family they choose, the friends they make, the life they decide to lead, are what define who they are. And he would tell them as much when they express their confusion, citing the example of the tactician whose body is his vessel and whose soul accompanies him even still: if Robin’s identity were defined by his birthplace, his parentage, then he would be a zealous cultist like his father willingly giving up his body for the purpose of reviving the fell dragon. But he wasn’t. He chose instead to fight against his father by seeking peace for all he could, and defined the Ylissean Shepherds as his family – something they responded with in like kind, such that their children knew him as ‘Uncle Robin’ through their upbringings.
So when they fret that they don’t know who they are because of all the lies they’ve been told, his response would be a question: who do you want to be?
#fire emblem: heroes#headcanon#grima#corrin#robin#answered#anonymous#wow this got way longer than expected#also can we just appreciate for a moment#the fact that grima is getting a chance to define for himself who he wants to be?#once humanity defined him as a destroyer#and by their machinations he became just that#driven by grief and rage and hatred#and while it's true that he still feels that deeply#his time in the order is giving him a chance to define himself#and he wants to be not a destroyer but a protector#so he takes care of the dragon creche and supports those he can#his ferocity is used in defense of his allies rather than in oppression of others#so when he asks corrin or anyone who do you want to be#he's trying to show them the very same chance that kiran gave him in askr#dragon creche
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