#black walder frey

[dyannawynnedayne]

Ryman Frey (stevrons son with Corenna), his wife*, Edwyn Frey, "Black" Walder Frey, and Petyr Frey

Ryman's Wife = she wasnt given a name, so I named her. She is Anya Smallwood, and is the sister of Theomar Smallwood. She Does Not Like her husband (or her children tbh) and lives in a nearby motherhouse. She's waiting for Ryman to die so she can become a septa lmao. I just imagine she doesnt have a ton of ambition, got married to Ryman of all people way too young, and watched Ryman 'ruin' all their children in her opinion. She ptobably left when Petyr fostered somewhere.

[stannis-the-freaking-mannis]

house pie

[cynicalclassicist]

It's going to be Big Walder by the end. Maybe Lothar is able to take control of the Twins after a lot of his relatives fall in vengeance for the Red Wedding or to each other. But it might be a kind of quick cycle through Lords of the Crossing.

that-one-homosexual reblogged your post “As a reminder: Succession in Westeros…” and added:

Just like to add that the Stony Dornishmen prefer male primogeniture (following Andal tradition rather than Rhonyish). http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dornishmen

Not all Stony Dornishmen. (In fact, not most of them.)

4. Do all Houses of Dorne follow the first born heir law?

The vast majority, yes. May be a few stony Dornishmen in the mountains who go their own way, those least touched by the Rhoynar.

–GRRM, “Concerning Dorne” (bolding mine)

lizzierh replied to your post “As a reminder: Succession in Westeros…”

For curiosity’s sake, the Freys appear to be pure Salic.

I don’t think we’ve seen any real evidence of that, other than Big and Little Walder’s conversation after they heard news of Stevron’s death, and they simply may have been overlooking the girls in their obsessive succession-counting. And considering the conversation referred to “Aegon and all his sons”, um… I don’t count it for much. Also, Salic inheritance is against Westeros law, as both Gorold Goodbrother’s maester and Jon Snow would tell you. So if the Freys do exclude women, they’re doing it illegally if so.

The proof will be in what happens after Edwyn Frey, the current heir to the Twins, is killed by his younger brother Black Walder. (He’s totally going to, if Lady Stoneheart doesn’t get to him first.) Edwyn’s heir is his only daughter, 9-year-old Walda. Will Walda be heir? Or will Black Walder kill her too? Or will he simply take the inheritance from her because she’s a little girl and might has the right? (Especially if he claims she’s his bastard, as she might be.) And will Old Walder give a fuck if he does, or will he just sit there and heh about it? If he’s alive at the time (which I expect he will be) of course. Mind you it probably doesn’t matter that much since I doubt Black Walder’s going to survive the end of the series anyway; hell, lord knows which if any members of House Frey will be standing in the end.

[daenystheedreamer]

Fem Ramsey. Hit ask. That's it.

the ultimate femcel

[adarkandmagicalforest]

hidden being the operative word, incase any of you ask 'what about robert?' 'what about theon?'

[vitaminkenjoyer]

tbh i think brienne is telling the truth about the location of hollow hill being a day's ride away from pennytree.

both brienne and arya are blindfolded when taken to the cave, and when arya goes with the brotherhood to high heart (twice) she is never blindfolded which wouldn't make much sense if indeed hollow hill was underneath high heart (thought i don't doubt that there are weirwood cave systems that extend there as well). pennytree has the obvious landmark of the huge oak tree with a thousand pennies nailed into it, so it'd make sense for the brotherhood to blindfold people when in the area.

it makes the most sense geographically, with raventree hall to the north and it's gigantic dead weirwood tree and pennytree not far off to the south located in between the two hills. the entrance to the cave is likely well hidden and obscured, located on the side of one of the teats.

and logistically i don't think brienne and jaime could afford to linger for weeks traveling in the riverlands given the fact that they are likely to be encountered by not only members of the brotherhood and their spies, but also jaime's own men who were sent to search along the red fork for the blackfish (addam marbrand was given command north of the river, ser dermot of the rainwood to the south. i have to assume since they aren't mentioned in jaime's dance chapter that they are still searching at the time.), or they may run into any members of the garrision that jaime released from riverrun.

brienne has been given enough trust by the brotherhood to be given back her sword and presumably she is now privy to the exact whereabouts of the hideout, or close enough. which makes me think hyle and pod will not only be held as leverage as part of whatever deal jaime n brienne will make with the brotherhood, but also as a reminder that should jaime or brienne give up the location of this hideout or try to invade with jaime's forces, they will kill hyle and podrick at the first sign of betrayal.

now the question mark just becomes what are they up to in the weeks following their escape/possible collaboration with the brotherhood. they can't stay hidden for too long i would think, considering the fact that jaime's men would be all over the place looking for him, and the freys have their own men searching for outlaws and black walder has gone so far as to torture smallfolk into giving up information regarding their whereabouts. at darry is also lyle crakehall who has pledged to hunt down the hound/other outlaws.

[agentrouka-blog]

do you think the asoiaf series have an issue with romanticizing incest ? sometimes i feel like even a pulpy series like flowers in the attic better managed to communicate the horror of incest by making it a sort of family curse

It's not romanticizing incest any more than it is romanticizing violent abuse of power. GRRM's storytelling style is geared around the reader having to make their own judgments of whether or not a character's actions and choices are "good" or "bad" or harmful or life-affirming, or destructive or effective.

And he is definitely not writing "horror" in the sense of chilling you to the bone emotionally. (Which is valid, too.) He's writing a bit more intellectually than that. He's examining the subject. From multiple angles.

Why is incest harmful? What is harmful about it? Given a general lack of natural inclination toward it, what underlying forces are bringing it forth in the story? Are they similar to the underlying forces that cause other forms of harm?

When characters romanticize incest in the story, or when they normalize it (fictional historians or other characters about the Targs, mainly) this too is the author asking you to use your brain and question that.

If you read Fire and Blood and expect that the author is presenting you with Protagonists to Identify With instead of A Problem To Analyze, you're reading it wrong. It's fictional non-fiction. Literally a fake history book.

As for the actual novel series, you're still not seeing him romanticizing incest through characters like codependent Lannister-supremacy murder twins Jaime and Cersei, or Viserys's abuse of Dany, or Craster, or the rumors of Black Walder Frey. They all involve misogyny and objectification, supremacist disdain of "lesser" people, and/or outright generational cycles of sexual and emotional abuse.

Jonsa as a concept, too, is an examination of the underlying forces. In the so-called "original outline" (really one of many), GRRM directly plays with the concept of an incest romantic attraction between Jon and a Stark half-sister (named Arya in that case) that "torments" them, and is likely to be at least in part a commentary on the distortion of family relationships through the rigid status differences enforced by their oppressive feudal, patriarchal society. As in, the incest is not fetishized or romanticized, it is a problem that has to be miraculously overcome by the revelation of Jon's actual degree of relation, which paves over the "perversion" that existed because there was no natural family bond.

So... no, absolutely not. There is no romanticizing. The book series absolutely requires critical thinking, there is meant to be some emotional distance induced by the excesses it depicts, giving you room to question and analyze. If you swallow it all as a form of "different in-universe morality" then you're missing the point.

[mights-quills]

lainey hightower: ‘the witch beyond the wall’ by the wildings / ‘ the damsel of castle black’ by the night’s watch / ‘ the crow whore’ by her haters

marysa manderly: ‘the white queen’ by the northmen, ‘ the young queen’ by the southerners, ‘ alyssane’, by herself and the travelling fair, ‘ the mermaid’ by rose bolton and walder frey

heistia umber: ‘ the lady of the heath’, by blood raven, jojen and meera reed. ‘ the bloodwitch’ by melissandra.

cassandra algood: ‘the western prophet’ by the western houses, ‘ the mandoomer’ by the small folk

maerie rivers: ‘ lady maerie’ by brienne of tarth, ‘ lady rivers’ by jaime lannister.

[atopvisenyashill]

i’m curious what they’ll call it tho like it’s not gonna be called the second red wedding in canon. will they go with another color? the black wedding? the grey wedding? the…(tully) blue wedding? will it take its name from lady stoneheart? stoneheart’s massacre? the brotherhood’s massacre? stoneheart’s wedding? the last wedding of walder frey? no that’s too long.

[markhenzel]

My grand theory of ASOIAF with combination of multiple theories

1) Jon Snow is Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne son

2) Ned went through the same situation as Robb Stark but with different choices

3) Arthur Dayne is Mance Rayder

4) Coldhands is the original Mance Rayder

5) Edric Dayne is Rhaegar and Lyanna son

Personally, I never like the idea of Jon Snow is son of Rhaegar and Lyanna because it's undo the entire story of Jon. He's a bastard and we see from his perspective about how Westeros mistreat bastard as bad omen. But he ignore the mockery and climbs his way to be Lord Commander of Night's Watch. Make him royalty and what we left with? Is that mean all bastards are evil by nature? With Joffrey, Ramsey, Ulf The White, Hugh Hammer, Daemon Blackfyre, Bloodraven etc? So Jon is a good guy because he never a bastard? It's stupid. I always think his story is more toward King In The North with Robb's will subplot.

I personally believe Jon is son of Eddard Stark and Ashara Dayne. It's a parallel to Robb Stark with Jane Westerling and Walder Frey's daughter. Ned Stark went through the same as Robb Stark did but made a different choices. Just like Robb Stark had to choose between his honor after dishonor Jane Westerling or his duty for promise made to House Frey, Ned Stark had to choose between his honor towards Ashara Dayne or his duty after his brother, Brandon Stark's death to betrothed with Catelyn Tully to strengthen Stark-Tully alliance. As Robb picks honor, Ned chose duty. But Ned still takes Jon Snow under him as he is indeed an honorable man.

I also like to think after Ned lifts the siege on Storm's End against House Tyrell (and he's beef with Robert for letting House Lannister leave without answer the crime from Elia and her children and kingslaying), Ned went to Starfall, castle belongs to House Dayne to say final goodbye to Ashara Dayne as he is currently betrothed to Catelyn Tully. But when he arrived, he got the news that Ashara Dayne is pregnant with his son, Jon Snow. There are chances Ashara Dayne told the location of Tower of Joy to Ned as she probably got it from Arthur Dayne.

So, a battle ensues in Tower of Joy. Let's imagine it for a second. Let in the fight, after many friends and foes died, and only Ned, Howland Reed and Arthur Dayne survive, and right before the fight continue, Ned reveal that he is the father of Ashara Dayne's baby which stops Arthur from giving the final blow as it would be an act of kinslaying. As they both stop fighting and Arthur Dayne surrenders, Ned Stark being honourable man as he is, instead sent Arthur Dayne to the Wall for his crime.

Now, going about Arthur Dayne. Just like Jaime chapters and Barristan Selmy chapters, Arthur Dayne probably going through an identity crisis about who he is currently and why he should dedicated his life for another organization that all about same as Kingsguard. So he went to Wildlings under the disguise of Mance Rayder to find himself and lives amongst Free Folks and learn their way of life. That's of course until The Others emerge and he leads as King Beyond The Wall to avoid them.

Alright. I'm not gonna elaborate too much on Coldhands being actual Mance Rayder as it wasn't strong evidence. But I just 100% sure that Mance Rayder is an actual person since most Night's Watch did witness he was born and raised in the Wall. So there's two person; Arthur Dayne takes name of a dead (presumably) Night Watch aka Mance Rayder and the real Mance Rayder who probably died or Coldhands.

Finally, Edric Dayne. Just so you know, I got this idea from the meme about "What if Jon Snow born with white hair? How hard Ned gonna explain it?" And that's give me an idea and I been onto Edric Dayne for since then. Think about it, a boy with white hair and purple eyes. Where else to hide it other than a house that known for having white hair and purple eyes aka House Dayne? It's equivalent of Rhaenyra saying her bastards are truborn because Rhaenys has a black hair. Storywise, it's also make sense. The child that been prophecies to save the world ended up just being a side audience and not involved with the main plot whatsoever. And just an addition, the original idea for A Feast For Crows supposed to have 5 years time jump and it was Edric Dayne involved in Dorne subplot instead Darkstar.

[jedimaesteryoda]

The Green Fork ran swift and deep here, but the Freys had spanned it many centuries past and grown rich off the coin men paid them to cross . . . when they were done they'd thrown up stout timber keeps on either bank, so no one might cross without their leave. -AGOT, Catelyn IX

The Freys have so far proven to be one of the most faithless houses in the series. They use their position as Lords of the Crossing to secure themselves the best offer, always demanding a toll.

It brings to mind the tale of "The Three Billy Goats Gruff," a troll under the bridge, always greedy, was willing to forgo one goat for the next if the next one was bigger, meaning he offered a larger meal. Lord Walder himself is a grumpy and greedy figure like the troll, always hungry for the best deal for himself. With things coming in threes, the Freys join their cause to royal candidates and are quick to throw them aside and turn their cloaks if the next candidate is stronger and brings potentially more rewards.

The Freys first allied with Robb Stark, King in the North. He offered them a marriage and fostering two Freys. They then cast him aside after his broken betrothal, and Lord Walder had been wanting to switch sides after the Battle of the Blackwater. They are now allied with the Lannisters the wealthiest house, with the alliance with House Tyrell, the two strongest kingdoms, making them the strongest players on the field. They made the Freys de facto lords of the riverlands and offered marriages like the Boltons making Walder's grandaughters' the Ladies of the North and Darry and prizes like Riverrun. However, we know like with Robb Stark, the Lannisters' success won't last due to Cersei's mismanagement, the desire for vengeance over their past actions and another player coming onto the field from across the Narrow Sea.

"And what if I do not choose to pay this toll?" "Then you had best retreat back to Moat Cailin, deploy to meet Lord Tywin in battle … or grow wings. I see no other choices."

The fairy tale ends when the third goat arrives, the biggest and strongest of the three. The hungry troll sees him as his best meal, but he misses that his size took away the troll's leverage in threatening him as the goat knew it was capable of challenging the troll and rams him into the river to drown. The last candidate that will make them turn their cloaks and offer an alliance to will of course be Daenerys, the strongest of the three candidates.

Knowing she will need to face King Stannis, they'll demand large rewards from her. Like possibly amongst other things, to be made liege lords of the riverlands or even Riverrun and Winterfell given Walda was supposed to be Lady of the North. I also wouldn't put it past Black Walder to offer Daenerys marriage. Of course, in doing so, they overplay their hand.

They missed as each royal house they made their offer to got stronger that meant they could demand more rewards it also meant their leverage was weaker. They had the most leverage with Robb who absolutely needed them to get from the North to Riverrun and vice versa. Their leverage lessened with the Lannisters as they knew the Freys had nowhere else to go if they pulled the Red Wedding, and did not need the Crossing as much, being able to send men from King's Landing to the North or riverlands via the kingsroad. With Daenerys, she will have learned of their history of treachery, having proven themselves to be untrustworthy allies who had made themselves pariahs and lost much of their military strength in the North and reprisals over the Red Wedding. They will demand much while offering her little, or overcharging for their services. Along with having a large army, she will have dragons, something none of the other candidates ever possessed, that will allow her to fly over the Twins without paying their toll.

Looking at the opportunity costs, she may also find that they made themselves so universally hated, that it would do more for her cause to crush them.

Daenerys's reply to their offers of alliance will likely be met with "Dracarys." The Twins will likely be burned in dragonflame, and the ones who survive the flames will jump into the river to drown.

The Freys always demanded a toll, but failed to see that if they didn't live up to their side of the bargain of providing assistance, there would be a price to pay for their faithlessness and treachery.

[greenaswildfire]

I was thinking... (spoilers, spoilers everywhere)

the writing decision of focusing so much on the fact that Aegon's parts were burnt root and stem is probably related to the future alliance with the Baratheons, right?

If they don't change it (lmao), almost at the end of the Dance Alicent comes up with a marriage pact, this time with Aegon instead of Aemond, and Boros's daughter. But with Aegon's inability to produce heirs, how will that work now? Will this alliance still hold?

Oh well, they'll probably use it as an excuse to justify Boros betraying the Greens. Because nope, if TB is betrayed, the Greens must also have at least one betrayal to make up for the huge difference of loyalties :)

In terms of important Houses I can't remember any house betraying the Greens (Great Houses, not others like House Peake or Fossoway). I consider quite curious how, in terms of Black side, House Arryn and House Stark took their sweet time to help them. These two Houses pulled a Late Lord Frey, way before Walder frey was even born lmao

And it's not even secret that Rhaenyra's mother was an Arryn, everybody knew House Arryn would side with the Blacks anyway, the realm knew House Arryn would be a rebel House and still, Jeyne Arryn is shown as very cautious, letting Rhaenyra fend for herself instead of helping her. (Can't blame her though, she was probably the only actually smart woman in this show who wasn't butchered by plot in order to prop Rhaenyra up)

And I won't even mention the Starks. With the reddit leaks I'm very, VEEEERY curious to see the reason behind this late help. Everything depends on whose version will prevail, Condal's or Hess's.

If we take these two houses into account, we have: Strong, Stark, Velaryon, Arryn (and maybe Blackwoods?) betraying the Blacks for their own purposes, not to mention Rosby who made very clear Rhaenyra's hypocrisy, but I doubt they mention anything about this House, right? :D

And when it comes to the Greens... only the Tullys and the Brackens (but as far as we know, their leader was burned by Daemon for refusing to bend the knee, so maaaaaybe they won't even remember them in S3?).

5 (maybe 6) vs 1 (maybe 2), woah, quite a difference in loyalties, even more considering how the Green side has always been the one with less support and dragons.

The thing is: iirc, the allies that betrayed the Greens weren't motivated by distrust in them, or the crown's misdeeds against them (like what happened with Arryn, Stark and Velaryons in TB). It was due to circunstances and manipulation tactics, otherwise, they would have stayed loyal to the greens.

Team Black NATURALLY doesn't inspire loyalty.

So they thought "how can we balance things and make the Blacks look like they inspire more loyalty than the greens???? Oh! How about find a way to shake the Green alliance with Boros Baratheon? Between a Green eunuch with a crown and Rhaenyra's two boys, Boros has more chances of power with her than with Aegon.

Condal, Hess, you can't fool us. We can predict all your moves.

Such a shame though, because by the looks of things it won't even be someone from TG who is going to kill her (if that ever happens in this fanfic of theirs), is most likely someone from TB itself because they simply have no enemies anymore.

Which is far worse PR move for a team who loves to boast about "how Aegon was poisoned by his own allies" :) Hackondal and Mess are stuck with this ending, unlessss they bring back Sunfyre and follow the book. But Rhaenyra, killed by a TG? Naah, it wouldn't be tragic girlboss enough for her. I place my bets on TB.

[stormdnerys]

So... I've had this idea in my head for a while now, but... what if, at the end of Robert's Rebellion, Daenerys was actually raised by Ned Stark and betrothed to Robb Stark?

Everyone knows the story: Ser Willem intended to take Queen Rhaella and her little dragons, fulfilling his duty, but unfortunately for the queen, Willem was intercepted by Stannis's soldiers before he could reach her. Rhaella didn't escape and died during childbirth, though not before begging Stannis Baratheon to spare her little dragons' lives, for the blood their families once shared.

Daenerys grows up in the North, as Stannis and Ned manage to keep her alive, though they condemn Viserys to take the black (Robert is already sitting on a bloody throne; adding more blood would only drown him further—this is the Spider's counsel).

Dany knows the Northerners don’t love her; she grows up knowing the sins her brother committed and the atrocities her father ordered, and though in any other life she might have taken pride in her lineage—because everyone actually remembers Queen Rhaella fondly—Daenerys is completely disconnected from that part of her life.

She’s not a Northerner, but she has been raised under Northern manners and ideals. She is a dragon but wears the skin of a wolf., breathing ice instead of fire.

And the thing is… everything happens as in canon: Ned becomes Hand of the King and is beheaded by order of Joffrey Baratheon when he uncovers her origins. The Northern lords declare Robb King in the North and Daenerys as their queen, who has earned her place. Both are betrayed by Theon Greyjoy and Walder Frey. Robb dies at the Red Wedding, and Daenerys barely escapes with her life thanks to Ghost, her direwolf. Winterfell is taken by Roose Bolton, and Daenerys is forced to marry Ramsay in a desperate attempt by the Boltons to secure their fragile hold on the North. Though Daenerys isn’t a Stark, she is respected as one.

And Daenerys, though she would rather die than allow another man to touch her, sees it as the price she must pay to reclaim her home. Daenerys eventually finds her way and frees herself from Ramsay, taking back control of Winterfell.

She rebuilds her kingdom from the ashes, leaving behind the warm wolf she once was. Now she is a Winter Queen, and she will be respected and treated as such. She is scarred by war and its horrors; all she wants is to bring her family back together and finally die. Rickon is with her, which is some comfort, but Bran is still lost beyond the Wall, Arya is presumed dead, and Sansa is married to the Lannister dwarf, subjected to the horror and torment of the bastard who calls himself king. Daenerys leads the war, determined to fulfill her purpose. She does not fear bringing winter with her.

But... the rumors are true and it is something that takes everyone by surprise, Stannis, who dies in battle, Joffrey, who has decided to close the gates of Kings Landing and Daenerys, who knows that her last kinsman, Viserys, died beyond the wall.

Beyond the Narrow Sea, a young Targaryen prince managed to escape and calls himself Rhaegar's son. He has three dragons at his command and has come to reclaim what is rightfully his.

And that includes his young aunt Dany.

[cynicalclassicist]

Huh, ASOIAF Tumblr really feels old. Yeh, I've heard that Black Walder stuff flying around. Maybe it happened or maybe it didn't. It feels fitting, as Stevron's death leaves a lot of potential instability for House Frey, with way too many heirs.

Who killed Stevron Frey?

Huh. I was going to say “I thought he died in battle?” But then I checked the wiki and ACOK, and:

“Your uncle Ser Stevron Frey was among those who lost their lives at Oxcross. He took a wound in the battle, Robb writes. It was not thought to be serious, but three days later he died in his tent, asleep.”

So, hmm. That’s just a bit suspicious.

OK, so we know it wasn’t Big Walder, he was up at Winterfell. It probably wasn’t the Brotherhood, either. Who else had it in for Freys, prior to the Red Wedding?

Let’s see… the Frey inheritance goes Old Walder Frey > Stevron Frey (Walder’s eldest son) > Ryman Frey (Stevron’s eldest son) > Edwyn Frey (Ryman’s eldest son) > Walda Frey (Edwyn’s daughter, 8 years old) > Black Walder Frey (Ryman’s second son)…

Ah, there we go. Black Walder is not to be trusted. It’s known he’s slept with his brothers’ wives, his cousins, and maybe even his father’s wife. And Edwyn worried he was behind Ryman’s mysterious death — which was wrong, that was the Brotherhood (as linked above) — but what if Edwyn had the right motive but the wrong target?

So yeah, if Edwyn dies mysteriously, and Walda “disappears”, don’t be surprised. Though Black Walder might be Walda’s real father, so a disappearance might not be that necessary, just a usurpation.

Or… Stevron could have just died naturally. “He was very old. Five-and-sixty, I think. Too old for battles. He was always saying he was tired.” Conspiracies aren’t always necessary, really.

[daenystheedreamer]

game of thrones filler episode concepts

- ser pouce gets lost in the red keep and tommen and margaery have to find him! lots of fun scooby-doo type door gags. maybe tommen stumbles upon the bodies maegor built the red keep on. they’re somehow still bleeding, as if they’re the only reason the castle hasnt been whitewashed from rain. cersei accidentally gets roped in when ser pounce knocks over her wine glass!

- sansa is haunted by the ghosts of her parents while at the eyrie... to help them move on, she has to let cat possess her so lysa and cat can mend their relationship :) this magic is never mentioned ever again, even though it could be really really helpful :) the afterlife stuff is also never mentioned again

- it’s hard work being the cleaning staff for harrenhal! roose bolton wants to be leeched, there’s man-eating rats to keep track of and there’s a weird little girl running around making trouble.... back door pilot for a downton abbey but it’s harrenhal

- guest star satin episode! it can be like one of those one-off hot women on supernatural that dean will date for an episode and she never shows up again

- now hear me out. ‘doctor-lite’ episode with maybe just a cameo from walder frey or roose, means it can be produced cheaply. it’s the day before the red wedding and black walder and lame lothar have got a HELL of a party to plan! 

- hotd filler episode! corlys brings home strange weeds from the free cities.... little arrax accidentally sets it on fire and the smoke is making house targaryen-velaryon-hightower a little kooky.... jace and aegon actually bond (this is never referenced again) and even the dragons are affected - vhagar gets the munchies! rhaenys is the only person not acting funny. revealed in a post-credits that she had QUITE the roaring twenties back in her hippy days 🤭 also she takes medieval medicinal CBD but thats unrelated