#because trapper was created at the same time as hawkeye

[thebreakfastgenie]

You know how in Maximum Ride there was the Max/Fang romance but then to add drama they introduced Dylan, who was created in a lab to be Max's perfect mate? The M*A*S*H writers centering the first three seasons on Hawkeye/Trapper and then creating BJ.... idk I never finished Maximum Ride this post is a sign for me to go to bed.

[fireinthefireproofvault]

Who Would Each M*A*S*H Character Play in DnD?

Hawkeye chooses a Tiefling character and plays the ‘what, just because I look like this?’ card anytime he gets blamed for things. Makes a bard partially so Trapper doesn’t have to and partially because he’s against unnecessary killing. In fact, he loves the roleplaying so much and is only in favor of killing really bad NPCs, so he gets mad if people (Frank) try to play the mission-driven murder hobo. Even mischief like personal sidequests to seduce NPCs often end up benefiting the party with information or rewards, so they can’t be too mad at him, especially when he plays amazing support as a mostly nonviolent character.

Trapper leaves the campaign early, but man was he good at roleplaying. The DM has to stop him from actually reenacting things in real life especially if they’re indecent. Almost refuses to call Hawkeye’s character by his name, just ‘handsome devil’ variations (Klink wants what they have fr). His character was an elf rogue; he was almost a bard but he wanted to be able to do more than support, i.e. become the main character if he wanted. His character was great with female and kid NPCs alike, almost all of them liking him unless they were stern authority types, especially because he was good at finding legitimate ways around them.

Ignoring the pressure to fill Trapper’s shoes, BJ plays the character he wants to play, an air genasi former sailor named Blow Jibhandler. He knows. Of course he knows. Despite his character’s name and background, Blow has a wife and child back home and his main motivation is defending his wife’s honor. Raves a lot about how his daughter inherited his powers and is already creating storms at such a young age. Is immediately thick as thieves with Hawkeye’s bard, claiming he remembers him from some old tavern by the sea and helping him write songs and vicious mockery insults.

Margaret decides she wants to let loose, so she goes with barbarian, but she doesn’t feel that’s any reason to sacrifice beauty or brains, making the character a very well-read elf whose ways got her kicked out of being a footsoldier and has her hating being a cog in some old man’s machine. Uses her character’s frustration at the idiots surrounding her and that same feeling from real life as motivation for her battle rage. That and sexism, too. Anytime an NPC is sexist to her they only make her more powerful. Pushes Frank out of the way to just become the tank herself if he won’t do it.

Frank also leaves early. Doesn’t like how infrequently his character gets the spotlight or gets teased by Hawkeye’s character. Wants to be a traditional hero, so he goes for a human paladin but never takes the chance to be the tank unless the others make him. Makes the generic white guy warrior with dead wife backstory.

Charles goes for a wizard upon learning they’re the most traditionally educated, flaunting fake wizard school credentials any chance he can get, especially if he thinks it’ll get him in places (it doesn’t always). The phrase ‘otherworldly grace’ is all it takes for him to choose an elf even though the others complain they’ve got elves already. For a guy who acted like roleplay was beneath him, he’s gotten so interested in not only his fake credentials but also being able to step in with the perfect spell at any given time. Also bantering in character with Hawkeye and BJ’s characters.

Radar wants a familiar so bad, choosing druid for a chance at having animal friends. They’re versatile, too. As far as race goes he’s content “just being a regular human” especially when Hawkeye and BJ tease him about playing a halfling. His character in particular somehow passes every single perception and investigation check. He doesn’t like fighting so most of his moves in combat are holding enemies down, healing the others, or just letting his familiar do it as long as it’ll be safe. It’s technically not canon but they let him make it be a bunny rabbit.

Klinger decides his bard cross-dresses too as a form of protest for how his people are treated, having chosen a goblin so he can be shrewd and do the voice. He loves doing voices best and will absolutely demonstrate dance moves his character does. The type of bard that seduces NPCs of any gender to kill them, but not without the satisfaction of revealing to male ones that he was a dude the whole time. His little goblin is really loving and loyal to all the other characters and really isn’t afraid to stick out his neck for them.

Father Mulcahy obviously chooses cleric, commenting on both the obvious choice and the irony of being a healer amidst all the doctors and nurses. An Aasimar seems too on-the-nose and he wants his character to be down-to earth, so he sticks with a human who’s trying, and usually failing, to rein everyone else in. Plays a very combat-heavy cleric that absolutely bashes in the faces of evildoers who don’t heed his message, causing some of the other players to tease the Father that ‘thou shalt not kill’ and all. The good cleric is an uncle, so he’s also great with child NPCs, even if he’s awkward around women.

Nurse Kellye has a sense of humor, so her ranger is a halfling from a far-off island who’s an expert with both her twin swords and a bow and arrows. Loves both rushing in and quickly picking off enemies, so a joke about ‘sic-ing Kellye on ‘em’ emerges. Just like Margaret’s character, she doesn’t take any bullshit from NPCs, especially male ones.

Colonel Potter, of course, is the DM and he spends most of his time done with all the players’ utter horse hockey.

[majorbaby]

The minute I cut that rope they made me a soldier. MASH Season 11, Episode 6 — Bombshells

I used to post practically every week about s11e06 Bombshells because it's my favourite BJ episode and the one I find most fascinating, because BJ seems to frequently think that it's BJ against the world, and Bombshells is a rare example where I think this is narratively true. At last, here are my lengthy but decently articulated thoughts about this Very Special Episode (to me!).

BJ has this "lone wolf" view of himself because he either imagines he has nothing in common with the people around him and therefore it's hard for him to relate to them, or he actually has a hard time relating.

Aside from Potter, who is hardly his peer, and Frank who is The Worst and also leaves two seasons into BJ's run, BJ is the only main cast member who has a wife and/or child waiting for him at home. He's in a different stage of his life than anyone else, and he lashes out at Hawkeye and Margaret at different points claiming specifically that they can't possibly understand what he's going through by being in Korea, away from his family. But for a few differences in their personalities, their world views, and I suspect their class backgrounds (though the latter two are open to interpretation), Trapper might be the character whose civilian life and role on the home front most closely resembled BJ's, and they should kiss about that tbh.

Relatability is important to BJ. We see that through the tension created when he feels his friends 'can't relate' to what he's going through to the point that he gets upset if they try to tell him they understand how he feels. We also see this through how he bonds to people from similar walks of life, for example, the patient in Death Takes a Holiday. Some of this is just normal human behaviour. It makes sense that BJ would relate better to people who share the same values as him, and a wife and children are symbols of those values. Of course, that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't connect with people who have different lifestyles with us. BJ obviously does do that, although he doesn't stop wanting relatability and that can make things rocky for everyone involved. What I'm trying to say is, BJ isn't as alone as he seems to feel he is. In fact, it's kind of funny how not-alone he is, sharing a tiny tent with Charles and Hawkeye, which naturally causes tension between the three of them. And the fact that he relies very heavily on Hawkeye's support throughout the show.

But in Bombshells, he's really, properly alone. Early in the episode, he'd been giddy to get away from the camp and everyone in it to spend a day by himself, fishing peacefully. Then the most harrowing thing to ever happen to him onscreen happens, and Hawkeye isn't there, as he so often is, to shoulder it with him. All BJ has is a total stranger who gives him an impossible task that goes against pretty well everything BJ believes in, to a fault. A doctor forced to cause someone's death - imo, I think this moment is equally as traumatizing for BJ as Hawkeye's moment on the bus in Goodbye, Farewell and Amen. BJ, who couldn't get on board with Hawkeye's plan to do a medically unnecessarily surgery in Preventative Medicine — even if it meant they had a chance to prevent the further injury or deaths of dozens of patients — is forced to cut a man's life line. It's a devastating moment and I have a lot of sympathy for him.

I know BJ well enough at this point that I don't expect him to voluntarily reach out to anyone for help, but interestingly, his isolation is even mirrored by the B-plot. We get an unusual Hawkeye-Charles team-up, where they run a scam reminiscent of the ones Hawkeye and Trapper used to pull, duping the whole camp for funsies. It's not just that normally HawkBeej are the unit to Charles' lone-wolf, it's that Charles and BJ's roles are reversed here even in the tone the plots take: CharlesHawk are doing something frivolous together, while BJ pursues a serious plot - now it's possible my memory may be failing me, but I can't think of another episode that replicates this formula. One specific example of these plots playing off one another as the A/B plots regularly do on MASH: BJ makes a phone call to try to figure out if the man whose line he cut might've survived, while Hawkeye and Charles make a phone call to see if they can contact Marilyn Monroe, the star of their scam.

In typical BJ fashion, when Potter tries to ask if everything's okay, BJ pulls away and acts like everything is fine, but this time it's because he has a plan and he wants to see it through on his own, rather than just sit by himself feeling powerless. He even tells Potter he'd like to try another fishing trip — trying to catch the one he'd cut loose the day before. He does all of this on his own checking beds, asks around, flings open the doors of the ambulance trying to see who's inside — but the fact that these scenes are interspersed with the B-plot, this would make an interesting montage, which is the thought that inspired the gifset I made. It matters less to me why he's doing it and more that it's a rare instance of him doing it on his own.

If he thinks that's because no one can help him, the episode doesn't really argue with his assumption. Hawkeye can tell that something is off, but despite his efforts, BJ keeps himself out of reach. I do not like the position the narrative takes at the end, when BJ tells Hawkeye that they, as surgeons think they're "self-righteous" and better for thumbing their noses at the estabilshment - I think that's a pretty dishonest way to characterize everyone at the 4077th including BJ and an straight example of MASH's unfortunately centrist leanings in the later years.

But despite my problems with that messaging, I still like this episode for it being about BJ and his resolve, detached from those around him and detached from the other big part of the BJ character - his family. All the other big BJ episodes - Period of Adjustment, War Correspondent, Death Takes a Holiday - feature his personal relationships in a big way that drives the plot. Bombshells is an episode that promotes BJ to protagonist, demoting other characters who might otherwise play a role in the drama.

This is most striking to me when even Hawkeye is unable to reach BJ and plays no role in the resolution of the A-plot. He sympathizes with BJ and tries to comfort him with "Well you didn't have a lot of options" - that may be compassion from Hawkeye, but I think it probably sounds dismissive to BJ, and that puts them in an odd role-reversal: BJ in crisis, and everything Hawkeye says is cold comfort to him. Finally, Hawkeye resigns himself to the feeling that he can't help BJ with this and so he leaves when Margaret comes to get him.

I'm not especially fond of the way BJ resolves the plot by giving away his medal and is then shown to be somewhat at peace with that, not because I fault BJ for it, but because I take issue with the broader practice and so does the show on many an occasion. What's important to me is that BJ also does that completely on his own — tie-up the plot.

I could probably go on about how much I disagree with the messaging of this episode, how much I detest the show taking a shot at it's own formerly anti-establishment beat and how that actually does the BJ character a disservice, but I'm not going to here because it's not as important to me as the unique format of this episode.

Bomshells is no s04e19 Hawkeye, but I really appreciate having so much textual stuff to chew on for BJ, rather than having me sit here and try to interpret the inconsistent writing that the writers admitted to for BJ, or Mike Farrell's acting directions. You could say this about a lot of characters, but BJ really deserved to be given the opportunity to stand on his own two feet more often.

[almostpleasantrebel]

Dozens of Songs Tag Game

I was tagged by the lovely @thebiwifeonao3 for the dozens of songs tag game!!! Here’s how to play. Also I’m sorry for how much M*A*S*H is on this.

step one:

so here's the game: 12 songs you've recently listened to (include a lyric that you like maybe), 12 ships (can be solo or platonic, dw) (hard mode: from 12 fandoms???) that the songs loosely make you think of, & tag 12 people to do the same.

easy mode: do half a dozen instead idk

here's a fun idea: you could even listen to the playlist from the person who tagged you to use some/all of their song picks!!

step two:

whether you've been tagged or not, you can send an ask with the song & pairing and create a work based on the idea. And the theme of 12 is fun so could be 12 characters, words, paragraphs, chapters, anything!

profit!!! (have fun & maybe end up reading some new fic!)

Songs and ships under the read more thingy

1. XXL (LANY) — Margaret Houlihan/Lorraine Anderson, M*A*S*H

Backseat secrets we will never tell

2. Apocalypse (Cigarettes After Sex) — Margaret Houlihan/Helen Whitfield, M*A*S*H

Your lips, my lips, apocalypse

3. She Looks So Perfect (5 Seconds Of Summer) — Margaret Houlihan/Hawkeye Pierce, M*A*S*H

Your lipstick stain is a work of art

4. Only You (Yaz) — Elizabeth Corday/Anna Del Amico, ER

All I needed was the love you gave all I needed for another day and all I ever knew only you

5. At The Ballet (Kelly Bishop, Nancy Lane & Kay Cole) — Margaret Houlihan, M*A*S*H

Everything was beautiful at the ballet. Graceful men lift lovely girls in white. Yes, everything was beautiful at ballet. Hey! I was happy... at the ballet. That's why I started class... Up a steep and very narrow stairway. To the voice like a metronome. Up a steep and very narrow stairway. It wasn't paradise... It wasn't paradise... It wasn't paradise... But it was home.

6. Trouble (Kristin Hersh) — Abigail Marjorie Lockhart, ER

Trouble oh trouble can't you see you have made me a wreck now won't you leave me in my misery

7. Summer, Highland Falls (Billy Joel) — Elizabeth Corday/Mark Greene, ER

For we are always what our situations hand us

8. Miss Atomic Bomb (The Killers) — Margaret Houlihan/Trapper John McIntyre, M*A*S*H

All that I wanted was a little touch, a little tenderness and truth, I didn't ask for much, no talk about being at the wrong place at the wrong time

9. Until The World Ends (Arch Tremors feat. Lollo Gardtman) — Margaret Houlihan & B.J. Hunnicutt, M*A*S*H

And you are safe with me until the world ends

10. There Is A Light That Never Goes Out (The Smiths) — Margaret Houlihan/Peggy Bigelow, M*A*S*H

Take me out tonight where there's music and there's people and they're young and alive driving in your car I never, never want to go home because I haven't got one anymore

11. Father and Son (Cat Stevens) — Margaret Houlihan & Alvin Houlihan, M*A*S*H

How can I try to explain? When I do he turns away again It's always been the same same old story from the moment I could talk I was ordered to listen, now there's a way and I know that I have to go away I know I have to go

12. Remember Me (Lullaby) ((Gael García Bernal, Gabriella Flores & Libertad García Fonzi)) — Henry Blake/Lorraine Blake, M*A*S*H

Remember me though I have to say goodbye remember me, don't let it make you cry for even if I'm far away, I hold you in my heart I sing a secret song to you each night we are apart

Tags: @remyfire @mercysong-tardis @cuddleswinchester @allcanonisrelative and anyone else who would like to participate

[yorshie]

Hi Yorshie!

(Edit from the future. I'm sorry this is so long)

I'm the same annon who mentioned the Leo and Hawkeye comparison, and I actually really liked and agree with your opinions! I didn't know how to articulate them before, and it's actually been a long minute since I've seen any MASH, but I really loved your analysis of the characters! I absolutely agree 100% that the similarities are on the surface, but once you get down into the meat of their personalities and how they handle conflict (past their masks), they really are very different. I think I initially considered the two very, very, very similar because I have been considering some of the Fandoms more angsty aus of Leo instead of the original version from the cartoon. Either way, thank you so much for writing a whole character analysis just for little o'l me! *happy spin*

I still like the characters and their similarities a lot, and I wonder how they would bounce off each other if they ever did meet? I don't know when or how that would happen, but would they be friends? would their competitive nature's create conflict? friends to enemies over the course of the war? could they even become enemies when all they want is for the fighting to. just. stop?! would they initially bond of their similar mask styles and then later grow resentful when Leo would inevitably rise *giggles* up to the challenge? hmm. I also think there would be a ton of comedy potential in a character pairing like that if you also consider their age gap. Would Pierce find Leo's teen antics amusing and remind him of himself when he was a teen, or would they constantly be at odds because Leo has No Respect for authority?

My parents would leave M*A*S*H on the TV when I was a kid, so I remember seeing the characters all the time, which is how I know anything about it at all. A couple of years ago, I sat down to watch it from the beginning and in order. While I enjoyed it, I got distracted in the middle and never picked it back up, so I wouldn't really be able to call myself much of a fan, I guess. That being said, my favorite character from M*A*S*H has always been B.J. Honeycut! I was a prankster when I was a kid, and I loved that even though he was an adult, B.J. also liked to clown around and be silly. He also really loves his wife and child, and he actively misses them all the time.

(also gives Henry Blake and Trapper John the grinchiest side-eye I can muster)

I'm thrilled you got to see the movie and that you enjoyed it! I love the Rise movie so much that when I had to get my first root canal, I picked it to watch during my appointment to help keep me calm (I had already seen it 5 or 6 times lmaooo) and I actually giggled several times while the dentists were hollowing out my molar (my husband, there for emotional support, couldn't believe it 😅🤣)

Thank you again for sharing your art, time, and energy with us! (Continue to hydrate friend! Many hugs)

Hello Nonnie! Thank you for coming by again! Absolutely don't worry about the length of the ask lol it's all good.

(Side bar before I get into the Leo and Hawkeye talk, at least Trapper had an agreement with his wife. Idk if that agreement included she could do as she pleased while he was away at the war, but he was at least up front about his infidelities.)

I think if Hawkeye and Rise Leonardo were ever to meet, it would be an explosion of many different things at once. First and foremost being, I think it would break Hawkeye a little bit. Let's not forget that Leo would be sixteen at the time of the movie (if that's when they would meet) and I imagine Hawkeye would 1. be insanely angry a kid was risking his life, followed by 2. insanely angry to hear that this kid blames himself for everything bad happening. I think it would be a complete 180 if Hawkeye met Leo when he was older, maybe further into the war, because as much as a wonderful character Hawkeye is I don't think he could be in the same room with the man that "started the war" without busting a vein to is heart and dying on the spot or having a complete mental break. (i know you say you haven't watched the show a lot so I won't spoil specific things but Hawkeye's state of mind is a reoccurring factor)

I think they'd get along personality wise if Hawkeye never found out Leo was "responsible" for the war. And since Hawkeye has no respect for authority himself, I don't think Leo having none would bother him at all. Probably hijinks would ensue though lol, i mean it is Rise after all.

BJ is by far one of the best characters in M*A*S*H. I think my favorite episode with him (that's not heavy) is Dear Siegfried, and I'd recommend it if you haven't seen it yet. The best part about M*A*S*H is how real each character feels, how they each have their own goals and flaws.

Included some M*A*S*H gifs for you hehe

[machihunnicutt]

⭐️!!!!! :0!!!!

HEY THANKS! sorry this took a while, I'm gonna rant about BJ & cigarettes under the cut...

One of baby it's you's main conflicts/themes (to me) is the conscious choice to cast off unhealthy coping mechanisms/self-destructive behavior...choosing/creating your own happiness, moving forward and all that! BJ smokes cigarettes through most of both sides now. When he's in precarious mental/emotional situations, he picks unhealthy ways to cope (in MASH: violent anger/breaking things, gambling, excessive drinking, displacing his feelings onto others - usually Hawk).

I wanted to make this struggle clear, and have a way to refer to it visually in baby it's you. And also for BJ's relationship to cigarettes as the fic opens to be indicative of how he's changed in the time since the end of both sides now (where he quits smoking at the end!) From baby it's you chapter 2:

BJ lay alone on the couch. He’d fallen asleep with his neck at an odd angle and now it was stiff. He missed Hawkeye’s weight and warmth immediately. He stared at the ceiling and listened to Hawkeye talk to Trapper. He heard Hawkeye’s rolling, lovely laugh and murmurings of excitement. Evidently, he was Hawk’s best man.  BJ felt lonely again, even though he wasn’t alone. He wanted a cigarette. He dug his fingernails into his palms instead and waited for Hawkeye’s uneven footsteps, coming back to him. 

Even in this brief moment, he's choosing not to fall back into his smoking habit. He's choosing Hawkeye (who's always wanted him to quit) instead. We see the trigger for the bad coping mechanism (Trapper as Hawk's best man) and then see him struggle to choose how to cope. Does he have faith in Hawk's love/commitment/loyalty? or is he going to let his insecurities win?

And Erin's aware of this! It's another thing they have in common (she shares his anger/his tendencies to close off or run when he's upset/his anxiety). She associates his quitting with Hawkeye. She can see how her dads make each other better/happier/more confident. In chapter 3:

Erin had been glad when Dad quit smoking. It was a compulsion, she understood. Erin picked at her cuticles until they bled, which was sort of the same. She was glad he was less on edge. She was glad his worry for Hawkeye was no longer smothering and raw, as it had been. She was glad they were in Maine. She was excited to see the house: because it was Hawkeye’s childhood home, because it was likely full of old photos and books and fascinating knick knacks for her to ask him a million questions about, and because she’d been promised her own room. Dad wouldn’t need to smoke in a place like that.

I want to talk about Peg too...BJ also smokes with her! Having trouble with words so here are some arrows: smoking -> courting Peg -> repressing his sexuality -> lying to Peg -> maintaining destructive habits (smoking & drinking heavily) in order to maintain marriage...

But at the same time there's something sexy/attractive in the act of smoking. In chapter 2:

She met his eyes. Her jaw was sharp and tight. She was gripping the railing so hard that her knuckles had gone white. BJ took a few hasty drags from their shared cigarette and then put it out. He could taste the waxy, floral, chemical flavor of her lipstick. It was like kissing her, indirectly. They hadn’t yet kissed. They’d been courting at a glacial pace. It seemed like the only way to do it, when you were really serious about a woman. “I’m a little afraid you’re going to break my heart, BJ,” Peg said. “I think I may like you too much.” “I’d never break your heart,” BJ blurted.

I wanted him to be smoking in this really tense will they won't they moment because it's another instance of BJ choosing one path over another. He chooses to self-destruct/hide who he is. 1946 BJ is a different guy!

And then GOD IM SORRY THIS IS SO LONG the actual chapter titled cigarettes. From chapter 10:

“What are you looking for?” Hawkeye said.  BJ turned away and picked up his jacket. He fished around in its pockets until he found the packet of gum, and then ripped it open. “I wanted to…god, Hawk, I’m sorry. I was resisting the urge to buy cigarettes,” he said.  Hawkeye looked stricken. “You’re smoking?” he said. “No, I’m chewing gum,” BJ said.  He was exhausted, all of a sudden, and his eyes were tearing. “I’m sorry,” BJ said.  He pinched the bridge of his nose and then pressed his fingers to his eyelids. “What are you sorry for?” Hawkeye said. He reached out, grabbed the end of BJ’s tie, and tugged.

BJ chooses Hawk! He chooses gum over cigs. He chooses to to fight his jealous/angry/insecure impulses and be open with Hawk.

Beejhawk :)

[radioprune]

I posted 11,943 times in 2022

That's 935 more posts than 2021!

1,513 posts created (13%)

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Blogs I reblogged the most:

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I tagged 6,645 of my posts in 2022

Only 44% of my posts had no tags

#queue - 841 posts

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Longest Tag: 141 characters

#i’ve been working on my daydream believer lol but i’m embarrassed to work in it when my family is home 😭 plight of a monkees girlie even now

My Top Posts in 2022:

#5

btw hawkeye “sneaking” into the peace talks is another example of he can act but he can’t lie. like he’s riffing he’s vamping he’s saying whatever to get in but he’s doing a bit he’s saying lines and then he’s literally just in there having a manic episode

122 notes - Posted February 7, 2022

#4

mein gott die girlies auf lörel canyon are leaving schpotify

136 notes - Posted February 1, 2022

#3

can I hold an informal survey in the tags I’m curious about correlation btwn peoples favorite beatle and monkee. feel free to add any other axes that might be relevant. peace and love

228 notes - Posted January 7, 2022

#2

also bj would walk across the country to see him he would literally walk across the country he would write letters once a week and then three times a week and then every other day and then sometimes more than once a day and hawkeye wouldnt write back because he doesn’t want to be the thing that ruins bj’s life and bj would literally pick up and walk across the country just so he could look at him for fifteen seconds to make sure he’s alive but then he wouldn’t be able to tear himself away because he would always walk across the country for him or paint the whole camp red which is the same thing and um.

252 notes - Posted February 7, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

i love you mash 4077 i love you hawkeye i love you trapper i love you margaret i love you radar i love you henry i love you klinger i love you bj i love you sophie i love you father mulcahy i love you welcome to korea parts one and two i love you peace on us i love you yossarian i love you hawkeye i love you hawkeye!!!!!!

259 notes - Posted July 7, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

[multiplecomplexes]

(@mashbrainrot since you wanted to know)

Okay, so I guess I should start off with this - I do not see Trapper and Hawkeye's relationship as being romantic, or even physical.

I think they love each other, deeply. I think they were both very important to each other's stability and mental health. But I just do not see their relationship extending beyond the platonic, or even the familial. Which, I would like add, does not dilute, diminish, or detract from the Love shared between them.

However.

I do also see them both as being closeted queer men, perhaps even partially closeted to one another. They both know, but neither has actually said anything outright, so they can dance around it, and joke about it, and try to find a comfortable place to be in it, while still holding on to that plausible deniability lifeline.

But the thing is, because they are platonic queer friends, they can play.

They can just say shit. And because there's no real stakes, there's no problem, it's all a good time and they can just screw around and play with this new (queer) way of being. The 4077, for all its horrors, has created, ironically, a safe space bubble. Klinger can crossdress and explore a new way of expressing his masculinity/femininity/gender, Margaret has a freedom of expression and responsibility that she probably just would not get in any other setting as a 1950s woman, Hawkeye is...the way he is, you see where I'm going with this?

The 4077, in its weird way isn't "real", this isn't the World. This is currently their reality but its not...Reality.

So they can be. They can try stuff, do stuff, explore themselves in ways that may or may not have been open to them in a different setting.

And then, Reality hits.

Henry dies, Trapper leaves, and thus - enter BJ, stage right.

(Further under the cut cause I start to go on)

And BJ....just messes everything up.

Because its real.

Joking and being open about his queerness isn't quite so comfortable for Hawkeye anymore when the guy he's bouncing off of is...earnest.

There is real emotion here, there are stakes, there are consequences. BJ has a family. And if something happens between he and Hawkeye...what then? We know how Hawkeye is about families, about children, the guilt that he would feel would destroy him.

These aren't just playful jokes that mean nothing, aren't serious, and are just meant to tease, the man is actually very much in love with Hawkeye. Its not

So it's not safe, anymore. We're striking too close to home, now.

Calling yourself a guy's missus just doesn't slide off as easily as it does when you know the guy in question wants that to be your reality, even if only for awhile.

Making sex jokes isn't as easy when that is something that could happen, compared to making those same jokes with someone who is like "yeah sure of course, I'd fuck you dude, totally" and then can't even keep a straight (haha) face while saying it because it's just so ridiculous and the both of you know it and are fine with it.

BJ's emotions, and the romantic love and physical attraction he feels toward Hawkeye is real. It's too real, in fact. Add a joke and there's very little space to breathe.

So, Hawkeye pulls back. He's still flamboyant, he still flagrant and out there, but in the face of BJ's reality, his diminishes.

Also something that needs to be taken into account is that, once season four rolled around, the show had gained popularity, recognition was growing. And the tone changed.

In the first three seasons they had several POC in either recurring roles, or singular roles with importance. They talked about racism, war, gay men in the army, civilians being stolen for soldiers, children being drafted, the way foreign soliders (and particularly American soldiers) came in and completely fucked over and subjugated the Korean people, the blatant LIES the army told to cover its ass when they made a mistake, propaganda, ect. it was a gigantic Fuck You to the army, "Regular Army" was the enemy, sometimes even more than opposing forces were.

Seasons 1-3, for all its faults (and it had them) was belligerent.

But season four and onwards was when the money and the attention came in. And that's not to say that they didn't still have a message, or anything like that, no no, not at all. But the studio was paying more attention now and they had to mind their step a bit better if they want to strike deep where it counts, because they have to measure their blows now.

So, by a kind of necessity, their teeth were dulled.

Klinger was in uniform more often, "Regular Army" actually had some good guys in it, and Hawkeye's queerness did not progress much farther from the point it had already reached (not to say that is actually would have before, we don't know, probably not, but you get my gist).

So that's my longwinided point, Hawkeye might have gotten queerer if Trapper had stayed around, I think it's probable even, given that his character is always pushing the envelope of behavior, but with the arrival of BJ and the truth of his emotions and desires toward Hawkeye, coupled with the advent of extra hands on the pen and eyes in the writer's room, effectively set the limit.

[marley-manson]

☕️ + Trapper?

Thank you for asking! I’m putting this under a cut bc it got a little long.

I love him. I'm really looking forward to getting back around to the first three seasons on this rewatch (I started Mash in season 7 bc I'd casually watched the first half a decade ago and the original plan was just to finish it lol) because I really want to pay more attention to him, both for fic purposes and general appreciation purposes.

So pending that rewatch, what I love most about him is his vibe with Hawkeye. Like I originally got into Mash pretty much solely for the barrage of gay jokes, and boy do they deliver on that promise. They're so fun together, their chemistry is very engaging, and they have a very in-sync, very mutually supportive vibe.

There's a pretty popular take that Trapper sort of mentored Hawkeye/supported him as the new kid, and Hawkeye passed along the favour to BJ, and I think that's a solid legit interpretation, but I think it sells Hawkeye's support of Trapper a little short. Trapper looks out for Hawkeye, does his best to protect him and stand with him and create a united front against any of their enemies from Frank to the entire army to the war, and Hawkeye also does the same when Trapper needs him - he's with him every step of the way when he tries to adopt Kim, he stops him from making stupid rash decisions as best as he can a few times, he's good with little supportive gestures and outpourings of emotion.

If Hawkeye supports Trapper less than the reverse it's because Trapper got fewer dramatic moments where he needed it because the writing tended to focus on Hawkeye imo. And I really enjoy that mutual support vibe - I can easily imagine that if Wayne Rogers stayed on through the character development years he would've gotten a lot more emotional plotlines featuring Hawkeye being supportive the way BJ did.

But to focus on Trapper specifically rather than just his relationship with Hawkeye, I love the aforementioned protectiveness, which we also see with Kim and Margaret a couple times. I think there are a few interesting implications wrt some of the lines, like the ex-Catholic thing. Not Catholic, but his parents wanted him to be a priest? I'd love to see his relationship with his family explored - maybe they're estranged, maybe he married too young to get away from them and start his own life, maybe he married for money to go to med school after being cut off.

If he's not religious but was raised very Catholic that's also interesting personality-wise. To me it suggests a certain free spirited streak, contrariness and/or urge to question, which fits perfectly with his and Hawkeye's attitudes towards the army as well. Like, to take that and run with it, I don't think he was just supporting Hawkeye's campaigns against the army, I think he also found value in them, and he probably really loves Hawkeye's rebellious streak in particular.

(Granted a lot of this is projection bc I have close family members who were raised in a christian cult, a few of whom left it, so I have some preconceived ideas about what type of person leaves an intense religious sect and possibly their family along with it.)

I also like to think he’s knowingly bi and has been around the Boston scene, much like Hawkeye, though I think he’s much better at subtlety than Hawkeye. I’m sure I’ve said this before but like, since we’re all taking Hawkeye’s jokes as his bi evidence then it just makes sense to do the same for Trapper, who has many of the same jokes with a very similar vibe and eagerly participates and hits on dudes like Klinger and Frank as well.

Hm what else... I like his cynicism in contrast to Hawkeye's idealism, as seen in Ceasefire, Mail Call, possibly Alcoholics Unanimous though I'm really feeling the need to rewatch to get the details correct now lol. But as a general vibe I think it's a good counterpoint to Hawkeye and I wonder where it comes from - I generally assume they were drafted around the same time, Trapper a few weeks earlier based on his conversation with Frank in O.R. and possibly the book continuity from my understanding, so I don't think it's just that he's been in Korea longer, I think it's something about Trapper as a person.

That's actually another reason he maybe supports Hawkeye on his campaigns so much - maybe he appreciates Hawkeye's idealism because he doesn't have much of it on his own. Trapper can ground Hawkeye a little and make him a bit more aware of consequences, but at the same time Hawkeye can inspire Trapper a little and make him see more possibilities.

I also think he's smarter and more observant than he's given credit for. He's straightforward but in an open and honest way, not in a simple or ignorant way. Like the common joke that if BJ and Trapper ever met BJ would be playing 4D chess and driving himself crazy and Trapper would have no idea and just be happy to meet a friend of Hawkeye's - like in that joke context, if that was BJ's vibe, I think Trapper would be aware of BJ's paggro hostility and simply ignore it. That's how I see Trapper.

So yeah basically I think Trapper has a lot of potential for depth to draw on, and he’s a great and very entertaining partner for Hawkeye, and I wish he got more seasons but life isn’t fair sadly.

[thebreakfastgenie]

What do you think MASH would have been like if Wayne Rogers had chosen to stay with the show?

Different, but a lot the same. That's such a hard thing to answer... Assuming everyone else came and went at the same times, I think the later seasons would evolve in a lot of the same ways, because of Larry Gelbart and Gene Reynolds leaving when they did. Margaret's arc would have been the same because Loretta would still have been fighting for it. Maybe the sex wouldn't have gotten phased out quite so much, since Trapper was also there to sleep around. I think there'd be a somewhat different dynamic between Trapper and Hawkeye and Potter than BJ and Hawkeye and Potter... at least, if I were writing an AU fanfic I'd approach it that way. I'm not sure the show would have, because I think they wanted Potter to be your friendly neighborhood regular army CO and they would have written him that way regardless.

The truth is, I think Trapper and BJ are pretty interchangeable in broad strokes. So the scenes would feel different, because he'd be delivering lines differently, and Wayne Rogers and Alan Alda did a ton of nonverbal background acting so we'd get more of that which I would enjoy a lot. But Trapper and BJ basically play the some role in most of the episode plots and could easily take each other's place. Trapper wouldn't melt down about cheating on his wife, but he might have a crisis if he developed actual feelings for someone. The primary way I don't see them as interchangeable is Trapper was always Hawkeye's partner in crime and the later seasons create tension by having BJ refuse to do that, but I don't exactly have faith that the writers wouldn't just make Trapper do it anyway, even if it was out of character. It's out of character for BJ some of the time and that didn't stop them.

I hope they would develop Trapper's character more and with it his working class Boston background and that they'd take the opportunity to use that in the dynamic between Trapper and Charles but I'm not really sure they would, because the show doesn't really do that much... we don't see east coast vs west coast vs midwest rivalries, Charles only calls Hawkeye a Maine hick once, etc.

One thing I do not think would have happened is a Trapper/Margaret arc. They might have hooked up similar to Comrades in Arms, but only if Wayne and/or Loretta pushed for it imo... Comrades in Arms only happened because Alan pushed for it for years. If anything significant happened with Trapper romantically, I think it would have been him realizing he did love his wife, if the hookups still got gradually phased out.

Obviously Wayne would have made different character choices... who knows, maybe Wayne would have remembered White Gold and Preventative Medicine never would have gotten made, but if it did, it would have been different.

[basil-the-scorned]

I’m creating a test (that it totally caffeine and sleep deprived based)

Because I’ve recently seen a lot of tests for TV shows that focus on different things and now I kind of created one...

I call it: The Pink Appendix Test!

What the heck is the Pink Appendix Test, you ask?

Well...

It’s a TV Test where either A: something happens to a character that is very controversial/questionable but is ignored or brushed off  until it’s addressed in a later season/ episode (like 5+ episodes later) or B: A character does a questionable act twice or more: while the situations might be similar or the exact same, the way the situation is handled differs.

This is 100% Based on the character Hawkeye Pierce from MASH, in which he removed an upper military officer’s healthy appendix twice in the series, each having different reactions despite it being almost the exact same situation.

3 questions to ask in order for a show to “pass” this test (I’m doing the B part for now, this is still a rough draft thing)

 1B: What questionable thing does this character do? Does anyone help them/catches them in act but does nothing?

2B:The second (or more in some cases) time they do it, what has happened to them since, what’s the tone of the show, what characters have come and gone?

3B: What happens after they do/attempt to do the action again? What are the consequences? Do they feel the same way as last time? Does anything change?

Good example (and what I based this on): Hawkeye and the Appendix

1B: What questionable thing does this character do? Does anyone help them/catches them in the act but does nothing? In a season 3 episode of MASH called White Gold, Hawkeye and Trapper trick Col Flagg. into thinking that he has appendicitis in order to stop him from making off with some penicillin. They both operate on him and removed his healthy appendix.

  2B:The second (or more in some cases) time they do it, what has happened to them since, what’s the tone of the show, what characters have come and gone?  By the time the season 7 episode of MASH called Preventative Medicine has aired, Trapper has been long gone, replaced by BJ Hunnicutt, who follows mostly by the book of medicine and code. After Season 3 of MASH ended, with the death of Col. Blake came the foreshadowing of more darker moments in the show to appear more often, and the realities of war coming to a head.

3B: What happens after they do/attempt to do the action again? What are the consequences? Do they feel the same way as last time? Does anything change? Unlike the first time, in which Trapper went along with the idea to fool Col. Flagg into thinking he had appendicitis and took out his appendix, BJ flat out refused to do this to a ruthless general, calling what Hawkeye was doing completely unethical and wrong. (And this was actually a descision made by Mike Farrell himself, because originally, BJ was going to go along with Hawkeye’s plan and help him remove the appendix. Mike Farrell thought it would be out of character for BJ.)  Hawkeye, both times, believes what he’s doing is right and will be the best option in the end. While we don’t really see the outcome of White Gold, we know it ended on a happy note: Col. Flagg was stopped. And Hawkeye probably felt like he did something right. In Preventive Medicine, Hawkeye took out the appendix, but the wounded that he was trying to prevent from coming, still came. He didn’t feel the same feeling he did in season 3: instead, he felt frustrated, and probably numb. 

And...yeah...that’s my basis. Any questions, leave in the comments/tags! I will try and answer as best as possible. And hey, if you can improve on it or wanna use it, go right ahead!

[dragoneer99]

the weird thing about mash is that i’ve never done military service and still feel like i’ve met someone like each of the characters in it bc of their general archetype

frank i’ve definitely met. he’s the entitled fuckboy who grew up rich and got into the military as an officer and thinks he can do no wrong because he was in the military and followed the rules. he’s also an example of how those rules were deliberately set up to harm people. because spoiler alert: the military is literally just a murder machine.

your military doctors? they help the infantry go kill people. Your engineers? they build the weapons that kill people. every single occupation in the military is deliberately designed to a create a system that murders other people

then hawkeye and trapper, with neither of them under the illusion of being good people. they’re trying their best in a shitty way and the reason they get cracked down on isn’t because they drink and womanize--because every soldier does that (sorry your faithful military husband has most likely been cheating on you overseas)--it’s because they have the absolute gall to not be totally obedient slack-jawed idiots. “the army hates people who rock the boat” is LITERALLY a line in the show

then houlihan, who is almost the same as frank, combined with army’s overwhelming sexism at the time. She wants a happy place to live at the end of the war and to be treated as more than an officer’s sidepiece while he whines and manipulates her. She adheres to the rules because unlike trapper and hawkeye, the women can not get away with nearly as much, so she has fooled herself into thinking the rules are good.

it’s a good show y’all

[ninthfeather]

Ninth, I am trying to watch M*A*S*H, but Hawkeye and Trapper are just... teeth-grinding... Can you recommend me some of your favorite episodes?

Ok! So, if Hawkeye and Trapper are teeth-grinding for you, first of all, that’s understandable–a lot of their jokes about women are not really that funny, and they often go way too far while making fun of the rest of the cast, especially Frank, but also Henry and Radar in earlier episodes. While Hawkeye remains a main character until the finale, Trapper’s actor left the show after three seasons and was replaced as Hawkeye’s partner-in-crime by BJ Hunnicutt, a practical joker who’s also a happily-married man with a young daughter. You might enjoy that dynamic a bit more. So, I’m gonna try to focus a bit more on some later episodes, and on ones that focus on side characters: 

S1 ep 12 “Dear Dad”: The first of M*A*S*H’s many “Character writes a letter home as a framing device for several unrelated incidents at the 4077th” episodes. I like this one less because it’s Hawkeye narrating and more because of the stories, most notably Klinger mailing a Jeep home piece by piece and Hawkeye performing surgery in a Santa outfit.

S1 ep 15 “Tuttle”: This is the one “Hawkeye and Trapper shenanigans” ep I’m gonna recommend. The two of them make up a doctor as part of scheme to get supplies to the local orphanage, and the lie balloons until this fictional man wins a commendation, at which point they kill him off and the camp has a funeral for him. The spiral of continuously escalating nonsense is wonderful.

S1 ep 19: “The Long-John Flap”: Hawkeye gets a pair of long-johns from home, and in the middle of winter in Korea, they’re the envy of the camp. Under duress, lends them to Trapper when he’s sick…and soon, the things have been traded around the entire main cast. One of the first really good ensemble episodes, and excellent in terms of characterization. Basically, it works on the same principle as the “Who broke the coffee machine?” bit from Brooklyn 99, using a petty squabble to bring out interesting facets of all the characters.

S1 ep 20: “The Army-Navy Game”: During a much-anticipated football match between the army and the navy, the 4077th comes under attack. First, they call for support from their own forces–and then for a different kind of help, when an unexploded US bomb lands in the middle of camp. This one is a “Let’s mock the US military” episode, and it balances humor, drama, and suspense really really well.

S2 ep 12: “The Incubator”: Hawkeye, Trapper, and Radar get into it with some supply officers after finding out that while an incubator for cell cultures is not on the Basic Equipment List for a M*A*S*H and they can’t have it, they’re welcome to request a pizza oven. A good example of the “let’s mock military bureaucracy” subgenre of M*A*S*H episodes. 

S4 ep 25 “The Interview”: The M*A*S*H personnel are interviewed for what is basically a propaganda reel. The episode was originally aired in black and white, so try to find it in that format, if you can! This episode was part script and part improv, and it really feels authentic to how these characters would react to being interviewed.

S5 eps 1-2 “Bug Out”: The camp evacuates their current position in favor of a safer location, but one patient can’t be moved. Pierce, Margaret, and Radar stay behind, while the rest of the camp attempts to retreat in an orderly fashion. An hour-long episode that really hits that comedy vs. humor balance.

S5 ep 9 “Mulcahey’s War”: Please skip this if detailed medical stuff or discussion of self-harm are triggers or squicks for you, but it’s a good episode. Father Mulcahey’s difficulty in connecting with a patient leads him to ask Col. Potter for a chance to go to the front. This is more drama than comedy, but it’s *really good.* Mulcahey is a lovely character and this episode was really good for fleshing him out.

S5 ep 23 “Souvenirs”: During the Korean War, many locals, especially children, made money by retrieving battlefield souvenirs and selling them to US soldiers. Of course, the fact that these battlefields were often full of unexploded mines and bombs made supporting these children ethically questionable at best. As you may have guessed, this episode also leans into drama rather than comedy, but once again it’s good. Also, there’s definitely *some* humor, it’s just in the form of jerks getting their due.

S6 ep 5 “War of Nerves”: This episode focuses on another side character, psychologist Sidney Freeman, and tackles some pretty tough ethical questions in the process. Specifically, how do medical professionals justify healing people and then sending them back into a war, knowing they are very likely to get reinjured? I wouldn’t call this episode uplifting, but it’s cathartic.

S6 ep 20 “What’s Up, Doc?”: Margaret, worried that she may be pregnant, approaches Pierce about a pregnancy test. What follows involves some medical history and is perhaps best not brought up here, but suffice it to say that this episode is an excellent Radar and Margaret focus piece, with a bonus bit of good Klinger content. Not bloody enough to require a medical squick warning, but I will spoil you: no animals die during the episode. I promise.

S7, ep 11 “Point of View”: Please skip this if the medical bits of M*A*S*H squick you out, but otherwise, this episode was amazing. It was an experiment with perspective, filmed from the point of view of a soldier with a throat injury being treated at the 4077th. The unusual POV creates a sense of immersion and also allows the writers to use the limited POV in order to create suspense–whereas in a normal episode, you follow the characters around, this time you’re hearing snatches of gossip during the POV character’s brief interactions with the principals. It’s neat as all heck.

S8 ep 19 “Morale Victory”: BJ and Pierce complain about the same movie running in camp all the time; Col. Potter gets fed up and appoints the two of them as morale officers, challenging them to do better. Meanwhile, Charles deals with the case of an injured soldier who feels his nerve damage has ruined his career as a concert pianist. This episode is some of the best Charles Emerson Winchester III content the series has to offer, and also some surprisingly good (if not perfect) disability theory for when it was made.

S11 ep 1 “Hey, Look Me Over”: Nurse Kellye wants Hawkeye to take her seriously as a woman. This should not take nearly as much effort as it does. You can tell Alan Alda did the writing because it’s a little heavy-handed at times but Nurse Kellye is amazing and we should all respect her.

An additional note: People are and will probably always be divided on Klinger--some people love him, some even consider him an example of early and imperfect LGBTQ+ representation, some people just don’t find him as funny, and other people consider him a harmful portrayal of crossdressing/trans people. If you find yourself wanting to avoid Klinger wearing a dress because you aren’t as comfortable with the way the writers handled him, you should watch later episodes, since he crossdressed less as the series went on and the writers ran out of quality jokes to tell involving his wardrobe.

[mlcsped]

USA Heartland Fans Celebrates Our Groupies With An Interview Our next featured Groupie is Les Cline! Les, as you will all discover, is a huge Heartland fan, and joined the Group on Feb. 26th, 2015. We got so much great information in this interview and we had a great time with it, as you’ll see why. Meet Les: ________ USA Heartland Fans: How long have you been a fan of Heartland? Les: I stared watching Heartland four years ago. Almost to the date. Found it on Netflix during a snow storm and became hooked. Nothing like binge watching for four straight days. USA Heartland Fans: Why do you like Heartland? Les: I grew up in Nebraska around farms and ranches. I was the town kid that had grandparent who were farmers. I really related to the characters of the show. Even though I am almost the same age as Jack he reminds me of my grandfather. His wisdom and his guidance. I started to call some of what Jack says as “Jack-isms”. USA Heartland Fans: We agree, the story lines are so relate-able to almost everyone. And YES about those “Jack-isms”. Who else watches Heartland with you? Les: My wife, she actually found it on Netflix thinking it was a movie. She was so angry when episode one ended: “How could they end a movie that way?” Then I told her that she just started to watch a series. She was relieved. She was a farm girl from Nebraska too. Later we found out that one of our nieces also loved watching Heartland. USA Heartland Fans: Aww, wow. We love how Heartland brings our families together. Okay, Les, who shouts louder at the TV, or the most during an episode: You or your wife? Les: Me! My wife will make some comments about certain things, but my voice seems louder when things happen that surprise us or that we want to go differently. For example, Season 8 Episode 6, Ty and Amy meet on the road. Amy says: “I miss you.” And Ty responds: “Take care of yourself.” Me: WHAT! TY, YOU IDIOT! YOU JERK! One of many reactions; some bad, but most good, and some with tears in the eyes. USA Heartland Fans: Hahahaha, LOL. You shouting at the TV. I love it.What are 3 of your top/fav story lines in the past 9 Seasons? Les: I think it is easier to look at seasons versus story lines, but when you think of it, each season is a story line. #1 would be Season 8—from the uncomfortable reunion; (Ty) punching Prince Ahmed; Pike River; Jack and Ty in the barn loft—to the ending with the wedding (with Amy saying) “I married the boy in the loft.” {USA Heartland Fans: Aw, yes what a great moment}. Les: #2 would be the bonding of Jack and Ty in season 5 when Ty takes his dad's ashes to the lake. Then the hunter tells Jack that he thought Ty was his son. {USA Heartland Fans: Huh, OMG Les, YES! That whole episode}. Les: So many and they are all so good. #3 would be the moment that Ty tells Amy in Season 2, Episode 16—‘Ties that Bind’— when trying to rescue Spartan: Amy: I'm so sorry, I should have listened to you (...) I'm so stupid sometimes.” Ty: No you’re not; you’re just passionate. I'd do it again in a second. I'd to anything for you”.” USA Heartland Fans: Les, those are truly some amazing moments! When was the last time you watched an episode with your wife, and what episode was it? Les: Unfortunately, we do not get Heartland like those select few in the Northern areas. The last episode we have had the chance to watch together was Season 9, Episode 18. My wife does not like watching things on computers and is more patient than I am, so she wants to wait for Season 10 to be on TV. I am so hooked that I have to have my Heartland fix. I read social media, follow the productions, follow the stars, and watch whatever I can. And if there is a long break, I get into my DVDs (Seasons 1-9) and re-watch everything. Yes, I have watched from the beginning of Heartland about four times. It is such a great show. USA Heartland Fans: Okay, now *IF* you had creative control over the show, what would you do with the characters? Les: Amy and Ty will finally open their own clinic in the barn like they always planned and expand the ranch. With the baby on the way they will eventually have a small house built on the ranch. We then can watch their little "nugget" grow up for more seasons to come. This way we can relive Amy and her mom's relationship through Amy and her daughter. Maybe a son, but I think it needs to be a daughter for that reason. Tim and Casey get married, Georgie graduates and goes to college, Lou marries [redacted]. The directions are limitless, but exciting to think about. USA Heartland Fans: Hahaha; OMG! I love your [redacted]. That is so awesome. We have wanted that too… and seeing ‘Nugget Borden’ with mom and flashing back to Marion and Amy... PRICELESS! Okay, so *WHO* is your fav character and why? Les: My favorite character is Jack Bartlett. He is so laid back, except when it comes to Tim. He is such a grandfather; has the answers even when it is something you don't want to hear. Or he makes you come up with your own answer instead of telling you. He is also stern, but fair with discipline. Yet is a cream-puff when it comes to emotions and living in a house of estrogen. Thank god for Ty being close by. Lisa is the perfect wife for him. I have to add this as one of the best scenes: Jack owing Lisa $20 because Remi got back on his good side. USA Heartland Fans: Hehehe. We love that scene, too!. Dare we ask who your fav couple is? Though we think we know. Les: That is the hardest question, so many perfect ones. Has to be Jack and Lisa. USA Heartland Fans: YESSS! GO, "JISA"!   Why are they your fav couple? Les: They are the couple that just clicks together. They get on each other’s nerves, yet adore one another. They are not afraid to talk about difficult things even though sometimes it takes them extra time to bring it up. Lisa wanting Jack to meet with the lawyers; wearing a ring; taking a name. Just a great relationship, just wish Lisa would move into Heartland. USA Heartland Fans: Yes, we totally agree with that. Jack is your fav character but, who is your least fav and why? Les: Where do we begin? Season 2: Caleb; Season 4: Chase; Season 6: Jeremy, Season 7-8: Prince Ahmed, and then there was Dan Hartfield. Of course, I was not a big fan of Cassandra in the beginning until Amy needed a girlfriend, now I like her. But the winners are Chase and Prince Ahmed. Oh, wait. I forgot one. Jesse Stanton, he wins. Jesse Stanton: the spoiled rich kid that attacks Amy through Ty, Ty through Amy and tries to manipulate things so he can steal Heartland. Yes, has to be Jesse.(Tim was a jerk but I don't consider him as a least favorite. He was lost but now he's found. (And Casey is great for him.) USA Heartland Fans: All great choices. Okay, bonus question: You’ve mentioned “Jack-isms”, so we must ask: Which Jack-ism is your favorite? Les: My favorite Jack-ism was in Season 8, Episode 17—All I Need is You. Jack to Ty. Not really a Jack-ism, but… "Watching you grow up over these past eight years confirmed something that I’ve always believed. That the goodness in a man runs much deeper than one moment in time. You’re a good man, Ty Borden. I don't judge a man for his mistakes; it's what he does to repair those mistakes that count.” Runner-up: “For a bronc riders, Caleb, we think that eight seconds makes the man. Because that eight seconds feels like a lifetime. In a funny way marriage is like riding a bronc. There are twists and turns and the odd headache. But if you both ride it like there is no tomorrow, that lifetime together will feel like eight seconds.” Too bad it was wasted on the Caleb and Ashley’s wedding. USA Heartland Fans: Those are both excellent quotes from Jack. Thank you, Les, for your incredibly detailed answers. Is there anything you want to add? Les: Thank you; it was fun thinking back into episodes. I have followed this show more than any show ever. I was a true M*A*S*H fan with Alan Alda and Harry Morgan. Heartland bumped them to #2 all- time favorite. I have created notes on every episode of every season of Heartland, Titles, Songs, and highlights with some quotes. I would not say that I am obsessed but I am a very big fan of the show. And if they do not get renewed for a season 11 I will go into a mild depression just like I did when Hawkeye got on that chopper and watched Trapper drive away on his motorcycle (on M*A*S*H). Heartland has also introduced me to singers and songwriters that I may have never heard of or even listened to. Now I have collected not only the songs they sung for Heartland but other they have produced. Just another great benefit that Heartland has done not only for their fans but those that contributed to the shows success. Look at the actors that have had brief appearances on Heartland and then moved one to other ventures that have great success. One is Kit (Tatiana Maslany) Orphan Black. Another is Miranda Frigon who has been in many Hallmark movies and produced her first music album. USA Heartland Fans: All great points, Les! You provided us with so much amazing info about your likes and dislikes. You are definitely a true Heartland fan, and we're so pleased to have you on board here with the Group! Thanks for sharing your passion with us! ________ Stay tuned for our next "Celebrating Our Groupies".

[thebreakfastgenie]

I think BJ has a lot of weaknesses but genuinely GENUINELY don’t see him being cruel as one of them, and especially not purposeful cruelty. At worst he obviously has at least one friend that allows pranks to veer heavily into cruelty, which isn’t a great reflection on him (or rather pre-war him) but I think the main weakness there is how he seemingly had/has a penchant for following big personalities with a sort of weak styled ‘good naturedness’ - i dont see any of his own pranks anywhere near Leo’s nastiness. He fails as a friend at times, especially in GFA (I will never understand why the writers made him DO THAT in that last episode), but one of his things is literally… how good he can be. It’s why Hawkeye likes him? He is kind to people. If you (a general you, not you personally) just don’t like BJ it’s cool, but at the very least… you have to accept that the writers didn’t intend to make him seem cruel and that others may not see him that way in episodes like Joker is Wild etc.

I don't see BJ as a cruel person but I do see him as good person who can become cruel under the right circumstances. Hawkeye is the same way, but Hawkeye's moments of cruelty are usually towards someone who deserves it and when they're not he gets pretty viciously called out. Not that BJ never does, Margaret does read him for filth in Wheelers and Dealers and he does seem contrite at the end of that episode. A big theme of mash is that good people are pushed into doing things they wouldn't normally do. This can be as big as cutting a rope or "keep that damn chicken quiet" or as small as being unkind to a friend. BJ is good and kind but honestly I think Hawkeye had attached himself to BJ before BJ got a chance to really demonstrate any of that.

I absolutely disagree with the idea that BJ has a penchant for following big personalities. I don't AT ALL think BJ was a follower with Leo. I think they were equals and the difference is just that BJ grew out of it. I don't want to come across as mean here because everyone is welcome to their own interpretations but I personally can't see that any other way. BJ does follow Hawkeye but I truly believe that's situational. BJ arrives in Korea and Hawkeye positions himself as someone who's been there a while and basically says follow me I'll show you how to survive this (which is flawed because as time goes on it becomes apparent that Hawkeye is not doing great at surviving it himself). I don't think BJ is weak at all. He just has a higher bar for when he thinks it's worth rocking the boat. And like how you said Hawkeye likes that BJ is kind, BJ likes that about Hawkeye too, and he likes Hawkeye's passion. It's not just that Hawkeye is a big personality, but what that personality is.

I also think to some extent this is an artifact of the writing. BJ is Hawkeye's designated best friend (even more than Trapper because Hawkeye was the established protagonist by the time BJ was created) so of course Hawkeye is a little more the leader. I can see why you (general) might say BJ is more of a follower as a Watsonian explanation for that but I'm not really interested in doing that.

I think what Leo shows us about BJ is that BJ had an immature frat boy prankster phase, which actually reminds me a lot of how Hawkeye and Trapper behave in the early seasons (which I think is largely a deliberate regression to college behavior as a coping mechanism). This opens up some interesting avenues about how much BJ has in common with Hawkeye, because one of the big differences between them is that BJ is a proper American grown-up with a family and a house and everything and an occasional point of conflict is BJ (and sometimes the others too!) not seeing Hawkeye as equally adult because he's a bachelor. The dynamic with Leo feels like BJ has matured a lot more than Leo has and has mostly outgrown their pranks, but he remembers them fondly and he still cares about Leo so he's sort of putting up with him. That being said, he does seem to enjoy the revenge pranks he pulls on Leo, so maybe he's tapping into a younger part of himself. I actually don't think Leo is that nasty, either. He's a dick to be sure, but he's not that bad (and I actually think people overstate Hawkeye's dislike for him based on a recent rewatch).

The thing is BJ himself canonically lashes out because he gets tired of always being the good guy. This is textual in Wheelers and Dealers! And it makes sense because he canonically also turned down a draft dodge because he "had to be he good guy" so in some ways being a kind, good-natured person got him stuck in Korea.

It's BJ himself who I feel sometimes goes too far. In all fairness, it's not only BJ who goes too far. Hawkeye goes too far sometimes and so do Hawkeye and Trapper in the early seasons when they almost drive Margaret to transfer. There's one episode where BJ tells Charles to go listen to his records in the Officers' Club, which is a perfectly good compromise, then arranges a party in the club just to be a dick to Charles, who had done nothing to deserve it. Unless I'm mixing up episodes, he does get some comeuppance from Margaret and Charles at the end. Obviously the main example of BJ going too far is The Joker is Wild, and I'll get to that in a minute.

So, The Joker is Wild. I genuinely cannot see that episode any other way. And I've never seen a true defense of BJ's behavior in that episode. I've seen people who love the episode because they ship BJ and Hawkeye and see it as an unhinged psychosexual thing, but that only makes it worse for me. I've been open before about the fact that I just don't like Joker is Wild. It feels tonally way off for season 11, but I think it would work fine earlier in the show. The way everyone is in on it only makes them not look like giant dicks if you think Hawkeye deserves it, which again works fine in the earlier seasons, but by season 11 he's not so much the wacky prankster anymore. BJ just lies to him and drives him into this state of really awful paranoia and it's just not funny and honestly uncomfortable for me to watch. One of the reasons I don't like it is I don't see BJ as a cruel person, but his behavior in that episode IS cruel, and unlike other times like Period of Adjustment there isn't a reason for it. I'd be really interested to hear how you see that episode, though, because like I said I've really only seen "BJ is cruel to Hawkeye and that's upsetting" and "BJ is cruel to Hawkeye and that's hilarious" takes. I agree that the writers didn't intend to make him seem cruel but I don't know how else to read it which is why I think that episode is poorly written and I don't like it. In general I think the writers are worse at acknowledging when BJ is being unkind or wrong than they are with Hawkeye.

[thebreakfastgenie]

I think it would be a really interesting AU to have Hawkeye, Trapper, and BJ all there at the same time. Either BJ replaces Frank, or they just have more surgeons, or maybe Frank stays in command longer so they bring BJ in as the fourth surgeon, but then Potter comes anyway. And Charles can come later or not but he's funny so he should.

In this scenario, there isn't jealousy between Trapper and BJ to start, because they actually know each other, and it's basically Hawkeye and Trapper adopting BJ into their group, but it's definitely Hawkeye who initiates it, so they're a trio but Hawkeye is the center. Trapper and BJ are friends, but they're both best friends with Hawkeye.

And then when Hawkeye has his assorted breakdowns, Trapper and BJ have different opinions on how to handle it, and that creates tension. Maybe Potter or somebody even has to yell at them that they're only making things worse for him by fighting.