#because the power imbalance is so real it's gross.

[balkanradfem]

I know I just made a serious post and I'm about to post something silly but stay with me here. I've had an experience that was deeply unsettling and horrifying to me and my mental health, and now you have to hear about it.

So I was reading fanfiction, and you can judge me, it's fine, I don't feel guilty for my little thought crimes, but it was a m/m fanfiction of two fictional blorbos I will not name in this instance. And this fanfiction was absolutely beautifully written, the prose had me in the first sentence; it was sophisticated, detailed, words so unusual and interesting I had to consult a dictionary. It started off wonderfully too, my characters were bantering, they were having issues, then had to work together and be civil to each other, it's what puts a smile on my face.

However, one of these characters had been changed in the fanfiction, in a way that felt unsettling to me. First the author changed his hair to long – and it happens sometimes, I'm okay with it, why not, make him look like an elf. Then his outfits were color-coordinated, and described in detail (it was like reading my immortal). Then he started wearing his hair in a long braid, which is normal, but, then he changed it to two braids, which I felt, was taking it too far, like this would happen only if he lost a bet and was being made fun of. Then he lost all of his desire for banter and started acting very dainty and vulnerable. I was having a bad feeling about it, but I still hoped it would get better. Maybe they would still fight.

The fanfiction had some very detailed and unusual descriptions of food, and it was food I've never heard about, red onion marmelade? I had to stop reading to consider if that was real. The food was a big issue and every meal had several courses and multiple fancy deserts and we were getting information about ingredients and freshness level. Then the characters started a discussion about the food, and the character I'm describing understood in detail how food is made, from what ingredients, in what manner, and I've felt suspicious about that, how would he know about cooking. Unreasonable.

I've still been hanging onto hope until finally, I got to the part where this character was in the hospital, and here I found out that the author erased all of the scars on his body. Not only that, but the character was obsessed with having skin free of blemishes and flaws and from what I was seeing, probably had a skin care routine. This was deeply unsettling because the scars have been vital to the plot, a proof of what had happened to him, and to just erase all this to make him blemish free? There was no hope. I knew it then for sure. I understood what was happening. They had turned him into a tradwife.

The outfits, the braids, the blemish-free skin, the extensive cooking knowledge, the lack of banter, the dainty behaviour... they did that to a fanfiction character. A male character. Nobody is freaking safe. The trend is so strong it bled into my emotional-support fanfiction. I am stripped of one thing that usually comforts me, two fictional males having a female-written relationship.

And the other character, who was supposed to be pursuing him, was written like a sexual predator. Consistently turned on by all of the tradwife elements and pretty much only by that. I generally love this character but in this fanfic I hoped someone would kill him. It was disgusting and disturbing. By the time the characters got to intimacy I was grossed out and skipped it entirely because I was about to throw up.

This is a common issue for me, a big bulk of fanfiction has already been ruined by rape fantasies, by bdsm, ddlg, fetishes, pedophilia, power imbalances, and all other influences of patriarchal society but I can usually FILTER THOSE OUT. Nobody will tag a fic 'tradwife' after they do this to a character. I've never seen a fic ruined in this particular way before.

This is mormon church's fault. They did this to me. They need to be taken down for this bs. This is taking it too far. Give me my adorable fanfictions back.

[dekusleftsock]

Don’t y’all love it when a popular tiktok creator is analyzing a character and interpreting it so, so wrong, and him and his dumb ass take is spreading.

Like it was one thing for you to be wrong

ITS ANOTHER THING FOR YOU TO BE WRONG AND MAKING OTHER PEOPLE MORE WRONG

If one more person says that Izuku is “underdeveloped” and that he’s “uninterested in all of his other relationships” and that he “has a power imbalance in his relationships with other characters bc they care more about him than he does them” STOP. PLEASE STOP.

A fundamental part of Izuku’s character: He is an UNRELIABLE NARRATOR. Most of his character is, therefore, told through SUBTEXT.

Izuku doesn’t say that he feels ashamed about his feelings for Katsuki.

But he does say that he thinks they’re gross.

Izuku doesn’t say that he thinks that Toga and her feelings aren’t human

But he does say that she is the “perfect counter to this quirk”.

THE LIST COULD GO ON.

Izuku is an unreliable narrator in a third person omniscient story (though sometimes mha acts more like a third person objective story? Anyway). That means that the way we do not understand the story is not through a retelling of what is happening to you, the viewer, unreliably—instead it is not telling you the full extent of his character and his thoughts.

To say “izuocha’s relationship is underdeveloped because it’s one sided” is NOT the same as saying “bkdk’s relationship is underdeveloped because it’s one sided”.

Izuku has always been obsessed with Katsuki. At some point the rhetoric being passed around was that it was Katsuki who was underdeveloped and uninterested in the dynamic. Now that rhetoric has been reversed since we’ve seen so much of Katsuki’s POV.

Ochako has always been obsessed with Izuku, NEVER THE OTHER WAY AROUND. In fact, Ochako’s arc even surrounded letting go of those feelings… as literally said in the text. Because that is a textual statement that she makes.

Izuku does not understand how or what Ochako loves in anybody, especially him. She loves a unique sense of personhood, which Izuku has always carried, and of which she saw in the entrance exam.

Izuku does not know how to view things he deems as “girly”, and Ochako very personally CANT be in a relationship with someone that she has realized is very repressed. Her friendships turn from friends to fascination very quickly, into her heroic form. (Think her few moments with Katsuki in that extra, or how disinterested she became of Izuku as she saw him run away from help, and not know how to respond to an apology. Or, hell, how much more interested she became when Himiko was honest with her feelings in their second real confrontation. She even says that she “admires how she can love so freely, and say it with her whole chest”)

LIKE ALL OF THESE THINGS. THIS IS WHY IZUOCHA ISNT DEVELOPED. That’s a purposeful choice in genius writing, at least in my opinion.

Bkdk is a result of Izuku being uninterested in acknowledging said feelings, and this is shown to be different because of the amount of times he has had that imply a deeper emotion or thought that we are not told. Think black whip, controlling your heart solely surrounding katsuki, “my feelings are gross”, the ear piercing scream when katsuki was kidnapped and the “this was a total loss” line, relaxing into katsuki’s arms after the apology, only coming home because of Katsuki, comparing romantic feelings toga had for him and admiration to ALLMIGHT and not katsuki who was “actually in his life”, I COULD GO ON FOR HOURS.

This is absolutely NOT underdeveloped, this is called SHOW NOT TELL. Horikoshi is so purposeful in what he shows vs what he tells. He tells you that ochako and toga are the same, he tells you that katsuki is worried about Izuku, he tells you that katsuki is there to step in when deku can’t handle it on his own, he tells you that ochako has a crush on Izuku, and he tells you that Katsuki is Izuku’s “closest person”.

But he also SHOWS YOU SO MUCH MORE. Unreliable narration is such a key part of Izuku and his character. Izuku doesn’t understand Izuku as much as the audience doesn’t understand him. It’s why I genuinely think most interpretations of his character are wrong, because you really can’t take him at his word. It’s the same reason no one understood katsuki for the longest time, he was in the same circumstances of a character who is only showed to you, not told.

I know i named so many god damn references so if anyone is curious as to what specifically I’m talking about with what, I’ll gladly show what scene I’m referring to. Apparently I can’t remember a damn thing but this manga anyway.

[offtorivendell]

On Elain, Gwyn and their apparent romantic worthiness.

TW: mentions of death, violent or sexual assault, infertility and pregnancy/childbirth related trauma. Please do not proceed if these topics bother you.

Disclaimer: please, please engage with this post with kindness. I promise I am not writing it to stir the pot, but because I - and many others - are fed up with seeing hurtful and harmful rhetoric spewed by the fandom, yet having no back up when dealing with it. Word vomit incoming, I'm sorry. This has been bothering me for a while.

My love to everyone who has been hurt by things they've read in this fandom. 💜

It's 2024 and I cannot believe we are still seeing posts, almost daily, about both of these women; all giving reasons why they cannot possibly be with Azriel. And I don't mean the debatable but utterly harmless discussions about Elain not looking good in black or Gwyn blabbing to Merrill when asked not to. Whatever, go nuts. I mean the truly horrific takes based around things these two women have had no control.

Now, my post history makes it very obvious where I stand in terms of ships, and yes, I'm well aware I've spoken before about the inherent power imbalance - that I perceive - which would exist if Azriel ever became involved with any of the priestesses in the women's shelter he is charged with protecting (to be clear, that's not me suggesting that Gwyn and her story isn't powerful, or powerful representation to those who see themselves in her, nor is it personal to Gwyn, or indicative of any of the sheltered priestesses and their ability to heal; it's purely a function of Azriel's position of authority over their sanctuary). I want to reiterate that my stating my feelings about this was never done with the intent to shame people who do ship them; we all ship who we like, and real world ethics should rarely come into it.

That being said, the following, in my opinion, is one of those times.

Firstly, I just want to say that lived experience informs how we interpret fiction, so please let me clarify something: the people who have said that they don't think Gwyn is ready for a relationship yet, and that NSFW fan art of her with anyone makes them uncomfortable, are not in any way in the wrong. They're simply the other side of the coin to those who find it empowering, and both are valid responses, often related to personal trauma. The problem lies with those very few who say that Gwyn could never have a romantic relationship, and call those who talk and/or post about it "gross." Some have called her "damaged goods." This is absolutely wrong and whoever is doing it needs to stop.

The entire fandom, even those who find romantic or NSFW content involving Gwyn uncomfortable to consume, frequently acknowledges that her trauma doesn't define her, and of course she should be able to enjoy love whenever she feels ready for it. Those who say otherwise are readily condemned from all corners. I've seen it happen and called the people out myself, as have many other Elriel shippers when necessary. However, Elriels are still very regularly and very publicly blamed for the actions of a few (some of whom I truly believe are burner accounts wanting to cause chaos, with their Elriel themed usernames and no post history), despite our largely collective action to call them out when we see it.

Could we do better? Absolutely, but so can you!

Because, on the other hand, I've noticed that, whenever I or others have tried to explain why the pliable bones "theory" - which attempts to reason that Elain could never be endgame with Azriel, as she and any baby would die during the course of pregnancy or childbirth - is equally as harmful, we are met with people publicly and wholeheartedly refusing to understand why (especially recently). Some horrific comments have been made to my friends, not to mention all of those I see well after the fact, which are never widely condemned by any but us. People will argue back that we're wrong, and have even suggested we're weaponising infertility! On Mothers' Day, of all the fucking painful days to say that.

Some of the push back I've seen recently includes:

"Nobody has said Elain is infertile."

No, nobody has, and that's not what we're saying or have ever said. We know you don't think this, as the Elucien fandom loves to write and draw Elain and Lucien's hypothetical future children (which is super understandable, as this is a romantasy fandom after all - no shame, enjoy your warm fuzzies).

What we are saying is that, if it's true that Elain's anatomy wasn't changed as Feyre and Nesta's was - and to be clear I cannot stand that entire plot, I wish SJM had chosen literally any other reason why Feyre's pregnancy was dangerous, as it is simultaneously degrading and doesn't fit with her previously established lore - then Elain and Azriel, together^, would be functionally infertile. Yet it's only ever framed as Elain's body not being able to work with Azriel's, never the other way around.*

^Why didn't the bat boys have to sacrifice their wings to keep their wives/mates safe? Why did the women have to change their anatomy? Because it would make it harder for them to be all powerful? Well Nesta sacrificed her powers! Why not just have Feyre be cursed by an enemy or something, and Nesta found a way to use the Dread Trove to save them all. Ugh. I love SJM's books, but this was such a miss.

*HOSAB/HOFAS SPOILER: funnily enough, this was never said about Ruhn and his eventual mate, even though he actually did think he may be unable to father children, thanks to the Oracle's prophecy. People shipped the hell out of him and a couple of different women throughout the CC series, despite the chance he could never get them pregnant.

"People haven't called Elain damaged goods, so it's not the same. We're allowed to not like her."

My faerie porn* lover in christ, what the fuck do you think the pliable bones "theory" is actually doing? It is suggesting that Elain's hypothetical inability to survive having children with Azriel, and for those children to also survive childbirth, is impaired. Ergo, she's damaged.

We don't care if you don't like Elain, we're allowed to have different preferences in characters and ships. That has never been the problem.

*I use this term with affection as a great lover of the genre.

But "damaged" vs a functionally "impaired" uterus? It's the same damn thing, and sorry, it's misogynistic af, not to mention ableist and homophobic at a minimum. In the same breath you are also reducing your favourite to her apparently functional uterus (even though the pliable bones argument is medically inaccurate, by the way - this is really damning of the state of health education across so many countries).

"Hahaha/lol."

Yes, I have seen people laugh and treat this as a joke. As recently as tonight, in fact. It's disgusting.

Regardless of your lived experiences and shipping preferences, both of these takes about Elain and Gwyn are equally degrading and horrific and need to stop, but if you're only calling out the comments that hurt you/your friends/your ship and not the others, then you should maybe attempt some basic self reflection and analyse those double standards you're carrying.

This entire fandom needs to do better. I'll say again, for the umpteenth time, to any of my fellow Elriels that if you think mocking Gwyn's past is funny, then you're not mature enough to read an adult series. But this works both ways, and if you think mocking infertility is funny/use it as a win, then you're just as immature. I would really and truly appreciate it if we were not left alone to argue over and over again why discriminating against someone who couldn't "have a man's children" is wrong, and why many, many people in this adult fandom - that is largely comprised of women! - might find such a theory, and the resulting discourse, incredibly upsetting.

Infertility hurts; not having a kid when you want one can be viscerally painful. Besides that, I know very few people who have given birth who don't carry around some sort of emotional or physical trauma from doing so. Treating a character's hypothetical infertility with one man as a joke is gross.

Please don't call Gwyn "damaged goods" or suggest that Azriel would choose somebody else over Elain because she couldn't have his kids.

They are the same thing.

It's not hard to be kind. Pain is not a competition.

We should all do better, and take care of each other.

[ariestarfairy]

Did Mystra Groom Gale?

My answer to that is, it's complicated, or perhaps not in the conventional way that people tend to think grooming happens. When I see posts about Gale being groomed it's accompanied by the assertion that Mystra found Gale when he was a child and was his mentor first. From a timeline perspective this doesn't make sense, we would have to throw out so much lore. Mystra was murdered by Cyric in 1385 initiating the Spellplague, she didn't come back until the events of the Sundering, so around 1479. Baldur's Gate 3 takes place in 1492. The earliest she could have met Gale would have been 1479/1480 which gives us a time frame of their relationship possibly being around 11-12 years. If we conclude that Gale is ~30 years old then the youngest Gale could have been is 17. If we conclude that Gale is ~35 years old then the youngest Gale could have been is 22. This lines up with Gale referring to himself as a very young man, not a child, when the events of their relationship took place. Also Gale makes another comment that suggests that he likely wasn't a child during his relationship with Mystra. If you romance Gale, he remarks that he had lovers before Mystra, but not after. If we assume that Gale met Mystra as a child then Gale would have to be much younger than we think he is. Now onto the subject of Mystra and Gale's relationship, adult grooming is a thing and the power imbalance is very real. A teacher getting into a relationship with a student is also problematic in any relationship where there is a teacher and student dynamic. Mystra has a history of changing and removing abilities from her servants and chosen, often times without their consent. This clearly illustrates an exploitative relationship. Also Gale, in all of his naivety of youth, perceived his relationship with Mystra way differently than Mystra did. Mystra has many chosen and most of them do not know one another. He thought she loved him, but he was amusement for her for a time until he messed up and she denounced him. Not only that but in order to maybe, possibly, earn her "forgiveness" Gale has to kill himself and even then forgiveness isn't assured. That's a steep price to pay. If you think Mystra is a good soul and Gale is a horrible person who stomped all over her boundaries, then you you need to learn more about Mystra's gross meddling with mortals. She is by no means innocent and has not only stomped on boundaries, she has done things that cross way over into non-consensual. The Gods are gross, Mystra is not an exception because she's a Goddess and presents as a woman, she's not vulnerable nor is she helpless. She is in the position to exploit and demand and she does it frequently. What also really gets me is how Gale gets labeled as being manipulative and abusive and Astarion is a beacon of perfection. He's not, he targets your character just to manipulate them, and that is his MO for a huge chunk of the game. His tragedy and changing over the course of the game doesn't reverse that, but it's somehow overlooked? Of course you have to view a person in terms of a snapshot. Looking at Gale based on a snapshot within his relationship with Mystra does not make him toxic and it does not mean that he was the abuser. Of course because Astarion was abused by a man, it's a different story, but Gale is a male character stepping on a woman's (Goddess) boundary, so he's necessarily toxic. It doesn't occur to people who play BG3, who have very little knowledge when it comes to the Gods in Faerun that Mystra is truly toxic and that a man can be abused and manipulated by a woman (Goddess) . Don't misunderstand, I love Astarion just as much as I love Gale, but I think it's a double standard to vilify Gale (who WAS mistreated by Mystra) and lionize Astarion while ignoring his machinations towards you in the beginning. Astarion is a classic case of hurt people hurt people, it explains his behavior but it shouldn't be ignored in criticisms of other characters. He's not perfect, if he were he would be boring and not nearly as interesting.

[crumblinggothicarchitecture]

re your commentary on swifts feminism

her song the man has always bothered me particularly how it's been labeled and used as some "feminist anthem" when it's not about feminism. she literally says she'd rather replace the man on top and get to get away with all the bad behaviors men do, "if a was a man" means she'd be the one "flashing dollars and getting bitches and models", being a baller and not a "bitch", and referencing leo dicaprio also feels weird to me given his track record of throwing female partners away the second they hit age 25. if it was really about feminism it'd be a song about getting rid of that structure entirely, not having anyone in a position above someone else especially to abuse wealth and social power but instead it's over three minutes of her wishing she could be in that position instead

Hello! Apologies this took me a whole week to get to <3. I totally agree with on "The Man"(2019) though. This song is such a snobby, classless disgrace.

I always forget that people really believe that to be a feminist anthem… and I just don't understand how people think that?

It's not a song about disrupting the patriarchy. Taylor Swift is singing about climbing the corporate ladder, and wishing, simultaneously, that she was privy to male privilege.

Like she's already privileged, and yet she's singing about wanting even more privileges…. LOL

Swift is not a feminist and I will literally die on this Hill. She's not even a LGBT ally either- but that's a post/rant for another day.

She cares about exactly one thing- herself. Absolutely nothing in any of her songs that she markets as feminist music takes about issues facing women as a whole- or even extends empathy towards other women. All of it is so completely self-centered.

Especially, "The Man."(2019) I'm sorry, Miss Swift, but as a real feminist, I really have no desire to replace men at the top of the hierarchy- I want to destroy the hierarchy.

Also, since you're giving me the opportunity to talk about this, can we talk about how gross this line is: " and they would toast to me, let the players play/ I'd be just like Leo in Saint-Tropez" First of all, she's saying that if she was the man she would be applauded for sleeping around so much, and if she was a man she could be like Leonardo Dicaprio who famously refuses to date anyone older than 25?

Like she's really out here repackaging sexist power imbalances, ones that encourage the objectification of other people, in romantic relationships and singing about how she wishes she could do that without being called out? She's romanticizing Leo's creepy dating life, as perpetually single yet using young girls like accessories, and yet in all of her other songs she is crying about how much she wants to get married and be "pushing strollers." Make it make sense.

Also, uhhh… the men are also called out for being creeps? Why would we stop doing that if gender roles were suddenly reversed?

My aim with feminist activism is to destroy gender roles altogether…

Anyway. She's a fraud.

And you have brought up a remarkably good observation in her music- because this theme extends out well past just "The Man" (2019).

God this song makes me so mad- How does she get away with selling this shit as Feminism??????????????????? She's probably never read a feminist text in her life.

I have this ongoing theory that her idea of "feminism" is just being able to climb the corporate ladder. Like she's just so clearly only imaginative when it comes to business. She really should have just focused on becoming a businesswoman, because she's certainly not a poet or a feminist.

[transmascutena]

what do you think about the incestuous relationships in revolutionary girl utena, and the root causes of the abuse? one of my favorite analyses I've read so far talked about how rape and incest aren't deviant, they are an extension of the patriarchal family unit. And do you have any thoughts/analysis about how it specifically manifests in RGU and the way the narrative communicates these themes?

It's so annoying the way some people act like the incest is just regular brother and sister complexes that's common in a lot of anime, and not an integral part of the show's themes about the Family fostering an environment ripe for abuse. The show treats these heavy themes seriously, and I wish I was smart enough to articulate my thoughts about Miki and Kozue, Anthy and Akio, etcetera. Hence, this ask.

Jsjsksks I know I sent an ask just yesterday about Revolutionary Girl Utena, but your analysis is so cohesive, and I really appreciate you bringing family/marriage abolition and amato-normativity into your analysis posts. It's very affirming to me as an aromantic asexual.

thank you so much! i will admit i also have a hard time putting my thoughts about these themes into words, because they are . a lot, so forgive me if this is a little rambl-y. but they are a huge and very important part of the show, so they're important to talk about.

i think i know the analysis you're talking about, and it's spot on. every kind of abuse we see in the show is a product of The System (patriarchy, the school system, the nuclear family, etc.) that's not to say that the abuse isn't purposeful, or that it doesn't often come from people choosing to do harm, but their ability to cause that harm is facilitated by these systems. for example, the system is not forcing akio to do what he does (although it is the reason he knows it will get him what he wants) it is just giving him the tools to do it effectively. abuse does come from people, but the systems are what makes the abuse so effective, and that's why we need to dismantle them.

this is something i've mentioned before, but a big part of why anthy was so trapped in her situation until the end, is because of the expectation to value family above all else, and to always love and forgive them no matter how they hurt us. and that is the reason why incest is so inherently toxic and abusive. it's not that it's "gross and unnatural" (such rhetoric really only serves to hurt and alienate victims anyway) it's that you cannot ever have a healthy relationship in a framework that tells you that you always have to stay with someone, and forgive someone, and love someone, no matter what. it doesn't matter if there's no age gap (seen in the kaoru twins) to create other kinds of power imbalances and it doesn't matter if they're not actually related by blood (seen in nanami thinking touga isn't her "real" brother, and in touga trying to use that against her.)

i've talked about how all this affects utena as well, and how even the state of not having a family makes you vulnerable to it, here.

it's not that siblings (or other family members) are more likely to be abusive people, but when they are, it is a lot harder to escape said abuse. leaving a regular abusive relationship is already incredibly difficult, but if they're you're family, it's even easier to fall into the mindset of "oh, but they really just want the best for me." when you've been taught that family is the most important thing in the world, leaving them is a huge decision. especially if you rely on them for material needs as well, like housing and food (which also happens a lot in romantic relationships and marriages.) there's also the way that with sibling incest in particular, especially if there isn't a big age gap, the victim will often be made to feel complicit in the abuse, either by their abuser or by society at large. like it's something "weird and taboo" that two people are doing together, rather than the abuse it really is.

that last part definitely manifests in the show, with the victim-blaming anthy recieves. from nanami especially. her desire to prove that she's "not like anthy" comes from an understandable place. she's dealing with figuring out that her feelings for her brother weren't what she thought they were, but it ends up with her putting equal amounts of blame on akio and anthy for the abuse she witnessed, even though there is a clear perpetrator (not helped by nanami already disliking and distrusting anthy.) it's clearest, i think, when she refers to them as "those perverted siblings" to utena.

it's funny (it's not) that this kind of thinking even manages to happen in the fandom itself. anthy is obviously not a perfect passive victim, and it's reductive of her character to say so, but the idea that she is as much an active participant in the abuse as akio is, is a take i have seen too many times for comfort. like, congrats, you fell for the exact kind of thinking that the show was trying to critique!

[nellasbookplanet]

Book recs: sapphic romance for people who like Hannibal and Interwiev with the Vampire, aka fucked up and toxic

Enemies to lovers, lovers to enemies, fucked up power imbalances, manipulations, plain bad people doing bad things - if you like your sapphics a little bit dark check out these books!

Some of these end happily, some tragically, some are more will-they-won’t-they than full on romance, some focus on healing while others focus on Getting Worse, but they’re all very juicy.

For details on the books, continue under the readmore

Feel free to recommend more books in tags and comments!

Othe book rec posts:

Really cool fantasy worldbuilding

Really cool sci-fi worldbuilding

Mermaid books

Vampire books

The Abyss Surrounds Us by Emily Skrutskie

Young Adult. tumblr classic back in the day! A trainer of sea monsters genetically engineered to protect ships from pirates is kidnapped by, you guessed it, pirates, one of whom happens to be very hot.

Escaping Exodus by Nicky Drayden

While my feelings on Escaping Exodus were mixed, it cannot be denied that the dynamic between the two leads and the way they go from childhood best friends to enemies on different sides of a class and power struggle is very delicious. It also features some really cool worldbuilding of living, alien generation spaceships and the human culture that has developed inside them.

The Stars are Legion by Kameron Hurley

This book fucked me up when I read it. It’s weird, it's gross, there’s So Much Viscera, there are literally no men, it has living spaceships and biotech but in the most horrific way imaginable. Had I to categorize it I would call it grimdark military sf. It’s an experience but not necessarily a pleasant one.

The Lumionus Dead by Caitlin Starling

Possibly one of the most unsettling books I've ever read, and definitely the most claustrophobic. Gyre, a caver on an alien planet, ventures into the dark and dangerous underground, guided only by a woman who has no compunctions on using and manipulating Gyre as she sees fit to obtain her secretive goals down in the caves.

The Jasmine Throne by Tasha Suri

On the less toxic and fucked up side of the spectrum, but still pretty juicy. A princess held captive by her own brother, who wants to see her dead, tries to trick a servant into helping her escape, but with undeniable attraction growing between them and the servant having her own goals things quickly get complicated.

Gideon the Ninth by Tamsyn Muir

Listen, if you're on tumblr I probably don't need to explain this book to you. Trust me when I say it's exactly as good as people claim. There are indeed lesbian necromancers in space (quite a few of them, actually), but also incredible worldbuilding that keeps growing with every new installment, interesting political commentary, morally complex characters with fucked up dynamics, and well-thought out plot that keeps you guessing until the last.

They Never Learn by Layne Fargo

Listen, sometimes you just want to read about a vicious bisexual lady professor who murders predatory men and falls for the woman trying to solve her crimes and that's okay.

Fingersmith by Sarah Waters

The source of not one but two movie adaptations, Fingersmith is a story of trickery and manipulation as a young conwoman works to gain the trust of a heiress. I don’t want to say much more because the twists are some of the best parts, but trust that it doesn’t take long for things to get real complicated between them.

The Unbroken by C.L. Clark

Tourraine, who was stolen as a child and trained as a soldier for the empire that conquered her home, is recruited by Luka, the future leader of the conquering country to route out a rebellion. A game of twisted loyalties and attraction is soon to develop.

This Is How You Lose the Time War by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone

Again, if you're on tumblr (or twitter, apparently) you have in all likelihood already heard of this one, too. Just like GtN it lives up to all expectations. It features two women on different sides of the titular time war, who starts leaving letters for the other to find as they chase each other through time. A quick read, slightly surreal, and absolutely beautiful, I cannot recommend this enough. Pretty mild on the fucked-up-scale.

House of Hunger by Alexis Henderson

In a world where the rich drink blood to preserve their health, Marion applies to a position as bloodmaid in a notorious noble house far from home. Suddenly showered with luxuries and debauchery, Marion soon gains the interest and favor of Lisavet, countess of the house. A fresh take on the idea of vampires.

Sorrowland by Rivers Solomon

A young pregnant woman flees a cult that left her body strange and changing in terrifying ways. Hidden from the world, she does her best to raise her children while trying to find out the truth of the cult and being pursued by a hunter in a dangerous game of cat and mouse. In no way a romance, but certainly has some fucked up sapphic shit going on.

The Traitor Baru Cormorant by Seth Dickinson

After her home was conquered by another land, Baru is determined to join their forces and climb the ladder until she’s in a position to free her people. To prove her loyalty, she’s sent to bring order and quell rebellion in another conqured region. Baru is set to succeed, but also has to struggle with her feelings for Tain Hu, a duchess of this region.

Ice Massacre (Mermaids of Eriana Kwai trilogy) by Tiana Warner

Young Adult. A small island is forced to defend itself against intruding forces of vicious mermaids. As all men trying to fight them get lured in by their siren song, a ship filled with warrior girls is sent instead. However one of them, Meela, had a complicated past with one of the mermaids, which is brought back to life when the two reunite on the battlefield. This one is also available as an ongoing webcomic!

Borderline (The Arcadia Project trilogy) by Mishell Baker

Urban fantasy mystery. Very much of the will-they-won’t-they variety, with a bisexual lead who has a male love interest as well as a female without falling into the typical pitfalls of a love triangle. Plays around with various fucked up power dynamics. A year after a failed suicide attempt that cost her both her legs, Millie is recruited by a secretive organisation that works to control traffic to and from Arcadia, the land of faries. Bear in mind that while the sapphic-ness is present throughout, it has a much smaller presence in book 1 than books 2 and 3.

Bonus AKA I haven't read these yet but they seem really cool

The Hunger by Whitley Strieber

Ancient vampire is on the hunt for a new partner, none of which tend to last long.

Codename Villanelle by Luke Jennings

Precursor of the famous Killing Eve tv series. While I don’t know much of the books, I did enough research to know this: their endings differ.

[genericpuff]

Do you know "Eggnoid"? It's a rather old webtoon about a girl being put into circumstances on taking care of a robot guy who hatched from an egg (hence the title) the robot guy appears to be a grown man, but he has mental capabilities of a toddler and even acts like one. So, it's like those types of "born sexy yesterday" tropes but the gender reversed. The girl also repeatedly shown crushing over the robot guy and at some point, she called him her boyfriend despite she's supposed to be his caretaker.

I haven't read it, but I can definitely attest that there's a double standard when it comes to gender roles and age gaps / situations of grooming / etc. in literature but especially in webtoons. And by that I mean I've legit seen people hold comics like Lore Olympus accountable for their gross dynamics between a young teenage girl and the much older and richer love interest, but then turn around and say it's "couple goals" for a teenage boy to hook up with a much older woman. At the end of the day there's still a power imbalance due to the age gap and the massive differences in life experiences between the two, gender doesn't really change that.

Big ole' sip of hot tea as a take, but speaking as an AFAB, a lot of women are just as capable of grooming and taking advantage of younger men in the same way as men towards young women, it's just that on the surface people tend to get skittish about addressing that because they don't want to sound like they're going "yeah well actually women though-" and dismissing the notion of toxic masculinity. Which yes, that's a fair thing to worry about, some people do use that as a way to dismiss the arguments made regarding patterns of grooming behavior in men towards young girls (among many other problems in which men and toxic masculinity are held accountable), but like any topic of this nature, it's not always a cut and dry black and white thing. Toxic masculinity and the grooming of teenage girls by adult men is a very real problem! But just like how we can understand the nuance that being a man by default doesn't immediately make you a predator, we should be able to understand the nuance that being a woman doesn't give you a free pass to do the same things we call out men for doing without consequences. It's like the double standard in LO that it's okay for Persephone to do the same things - if not worse - than what Leuce and Minthe and Thetis do, because she's the main character and she's not some scummy "mud-sucking" lower class person, she's rich and a Queen and she's wearing a giant hat so it makes it okay /s

Unfortunately the saying of "I support women's rights and women's wrongs" is being used in a completely tone deaf "literally excusing the main character of her crimes and wrongdoings against others because she happens to be a woman" kind of way, while missing the real point of the saying - supporting women's wrongs doesn't mean you celebrate their abuse towards others, it just means women shouldn't automatically be viewed as irredeemable "crazy bitches" for making mistakes like any other human does, and like any other human, they should be given the opportunity to grow and heal and learn from their wrongs.

When it comes to Persephone specifically, it can't even be chalked up to a "one time mistake" anymore, she's literally been showing patterns of abusive behavior for years now and refusing to take accountability, and now even Rachel is meme'ing on it knowing fully well it's what people are calling Persephone out for in the critical spaces. That's not "supporting women's wrongs", that's enabling the wrongs of a person because they happen to be a woman, and that's not okay. Persephone isn't a "girl boss", she's a bully.

I think the double standard in these age gap romances also speaks to the idolization and fixation on women as being nothing more than conquests for men as well. People who romanticize age gaps between a young woman and an older man think, "Wow, that woman is so mature for her age, enough that an older richer man would choose HER to be his wife! So romantic!" when in reality those who know those dynamics are unhealthy and toxic recognize it as an older man taking advantage of a young woman who's being love-bombed into believing she's "mature for her age" so that she'll sleep with him. Meanwhile, on the other side of it, those who romanticize young men getting with older women tend to come at it from the angle of "well she's so old and washed up, no man could ever love her, her chance for love and a happily ever after is gone now! it's so wonderful of that young man to give that sad and lonely old woman love and attention!" and yet fail to see it from the same perspective of an older person manipulating a young person with zero life experience, because there's still this deeply-rooted ideology that women are "used up" by age 30 and any man who gives her attention beyond that age range is a hero. Completely neglecting the fact that relationships aren't off the table at all for older single people and they don't need to involve robbing the cradle.

I blame the lack of older couple representation in media tbh, so many mainstream romance stories are basically just this:

To pull it out of the perspective of LO and webtoons for a second (sorry, I'm going on a hell of a tangent here), remember how gross it was when it was revealed in Fifty Shades Darker that Christian had been introduced to the concept of BDSM at age 15 through one of his mom's friends (i.e. an older woman!) who Anastasia calls "Mrs. Robinson"? And they had that relationship until he was 21? And they never really did anything about that, it was pretty much just there to explain why Christian was fucked up but he still got married to Anastasia, an innocent woman who he was repeating the cycle of abuse with, and lived happily ever after anyways?

Yeah. That was pretty fucked up.

[secretwhumplair]

Akreh

957 words | The black prince [WT] (sequel to On the road)

Content | Power imbalance, fear, prejudice, mention of/implied: past captivity, war

Notes | Orafin is reunited with his youngest sister! Elgar is Seen by too many people for his taste!

Taglist | @echo-goes-aaa @whump-blog @scoundrelwithboba @whumpcreations @neverthelass

»Fi- your Highness!«

Orina had never mastered her contenance quite to the degree Ozriel had, and she came storming out when they entered Akreh. Her effort in restraining herself from hugging him as soon as he slipped off the horse was extremely obvious.

Orafin smiled, sharing his sister’s feelings. Very soon, they would be in private and hug for the next half hour, after a beautiful journey; four and a half days of fresh air and moving undisturbed; even the weather had been on their side.

The was a shadow creeping underneath it all, catching up to him, but he ignored it. It would go away. It must go away eventually.

Akreh had once been a bustling little border town, but since the war had started—after it had been besieged multiple times and some part of the army was almost constantly stationed here—most civilians had fled further inland. Some into Rekkshuran inland, as was the nature of border towns. Only a few brave or foolish souls, and those who hoped desperately enough to make a profit off the soldiers, had remained.

What they walked into thus was more reminiscent of a military encampment than a real settlement. Still, whoever wasn’t bound to their post at the moment came out to greet them.

Mostly him, Orafin.

During the time they had been here, Ozriel and Orina must have become a common enough sight that they weren’t worth quite the same fuss any more (except on occasions where it was required, of course, Orafin assumed). But he? He had practically returned from the dead, and the looks he drew varied from disbelief to open delight.

He had always been popular. The youngest, littlest, softest of them, the one who was born so far from the line of succesion that no assumed ambition or power could poison his image.

For a while, he had hated it. Had been determined to prove he was more than that. But for now, he would be more than glad to curl up in his expected place, protected and loved.

»That’s him.«

»He is! Prince Orafin!«

»Long live Prince Orafin!«

»Why is the Teeradian going free?«

Orafin’s head whipped around. His impulse to find whoever had said it was immediately dwarfed when he caught sight of Elgar, walking half a step behind him, ducking, so obviously terrified Orafin felt awful for not having noticed it earlier.

He wanted to comfort him, tell him that everything would be alright; that soon, everyone would recognize what a great service he had rendered him, and be grateful.

He couldn’t talk.

He made the decision in a heartbeat. They were in public, and he wouldn’t be able to take it back, and he wasn’t sure Ozriel would approve, but he had to do something-

so he reached for Elgar’s hand.

* To say Elgar had never been as terrified in his life would have been a gross exaggeration.

There had been the time the slave hunters first caught him and he hadn’t yet known even that they wanted him alive. Several times at the markets, with all the uncertainty of what was in store for him. When his master cheerfully told him he would have friends over later, or his previous master informed him he was to serve as entertainment at a party. The first and second and maybe still the third time he was running from the guards when he was little more than a boy. The moment he realized the wretch was a prince, even.

No, this wasn’t the most frightened he had ever been.

But it surely would be added to the list somewhere.

The military encampment they had arrived at after four and a half days of excruciating travel—because that was clearly what it was, even if its history as an actual city still showed—had welcomed the prince with as much enthusiasm as the outpost had, except there were more people, even a civilian or three by the looks of it, making it a far more impressive occasion.

Unfortunately their reaction to Elgar was equally amplified.

He had noticed their looks and whispers as soon as they came into sight, and there was nothing he could do but stay close to the prince like a well-trained dog, ducking behind him as if there was any chance he could hide.

He hadn’t expected the prince to notice. Why would it bother him, anyway?

But when someone spoke out too loud, he seemed to realize.

Elgar might have imagined the way his eyes softened when he caught sight of him, pathetically creeping behind him like a coward. But he couldn’t have imagined the prince taking his hand. Out here. In front of everyone.

He was glad to take it, glad for the gesture of goodwill towards him being signalled to the crowd, even though the fear of what the crown might think of it when they realized was choking him up just as quickly.

Miraculously, they reached without incidence what once had been a fine inn, its sign of a spilling jug still swinging above the door. The main room had obviously been converted into a command center, maps and writing spilled over the tables, around which serious people sat and discussed quietly, or wrote what Elgar assumed to be important dispatches, or copied things that apparently needed copying.

All rose and bowed to the crown when they entered, but their eyes quickly flitted either to the prince with joy, or to Elgar with confusion or outright distrust.

Yet despite all this, Elgar couldn’t help hoping they would stay at least a few days. He hadn’t ached this badly in—well, truth be told, in two or three weeks, but that was bad enough.

[animentality]

I'm so sorry to tell you this, but you'll never ever stop people from shipping brothers or teacher/student or gross age gaps/ power imbalances.

and even if you decided to censor all art that made you uncomfortable, that kind of stuff would still happen in real life, because incest and pedophilia existed loooong before AO3.

sorry you had to find out this way.

[sqeeebus]

Saw a post about this and would like to share my take on it, no use clogging up this person’s tumblr and all that when I could just make my own point.

Big tw for non-con/rape, sexual abuse, etc

Besides, it doesn’t matter that much because this is a fictional character and not an actual person, so it’s nothing to really fight over— unless people who believe this actually support/enjoy/do non-con and other such gross things in real life, in which case— kindly omit yourself from this planet because you are sick and we don’t need people who actually find shit like this “hot” or would even do it themselves. Fuck you, I am a victim. If you like to believe this aspect is canon because it adds something for you (that is hopefully not erotic or romantic…) then do what you want, I guess. Not my thing, but I can just stay away from it so it’s not a big deal. Again, it is a fictional character but your opinions on what they do is REAL and can affect you and your actions.

Also when you post about that shit and justify it or whatever, you’re making multiple people feel unsafe and you’re making multiple rapists feel VERY safe, just so you know. So maybe make it clearer that you’re not about that in reality.

Anyway, all that done, let’s talk about the more specific and less important argument;

I see people so often characterize Hannibal as someone who is okay with or practices non-con and other such sexually heinous things, based on his attitude and actions in the show.

In my opinion, while we see Hannibal commit obviously horrible things— like murder and cannibalism, creating awful power imbalances and malpractices, as well as performing non-consensual and non-sexual actions on others— we don’t see him doing anything sexually heinous, and in my opinion I don’t believe he would do so.

For one, he encourages Margot to kill her abuser, Mason. Not that this isn’t a thing he would do regardless, but he also drugs and has Mason self-torture, paralyzes Mason to elongate his suffering and to also leave the revenge up to Margot herself, and even aids in the killing of Mason. We do know that he sexually violates Mason, but it isn’t for sexual motivation, as it is a clinical violation in order to harvest his sperm. I will admit, this is rather gross and sexually heinous, but not done for sexual pleasure or in support of sexual assault (rather the opposite I’d think).

This post I saw pointed out that Hannibal also said that he “liked this dragon” in regard to Francis Dolarhyde, who sexually assaulted his victims. This is a good point, and the only real opposition I have for this is that he only said so to get on Will’s nerves, or that he meant it in an entirely different way— that he’d like to kill the dragon/have Will kill the dragon, as that’s why he’d sent the man to his house in the first place (not knowing Will wouldn’t necessarily be there), because Francis already had a vendetta against Will and Hannibal would like to have Will get back into killing. I do know that Hannibal is well-aware of Francis’s crimes, as he reads about them through the paper and so I can’t say that he didn’t know about the necrophilic part of his killings, and that any of them very well could’ve been subject to it. I can only refute by saying he expected Will to kill Dolarhyde and “become the dragon” before any of that could happen.

Hannibal’s whole motto is “eat the rude” and I’d say people who commit sexually heinous crimes would be considered very rude, and he even seems to dislike them when they’re not even targeting himself.

This is not about projecting morality onto dark characters as much as it is my personal take and also to those who need to hear it: stop projecting your creepiness onto dark characters. They can be dark characters without being sexually disturbing.

I guess, personally, I’d just like to have a favorite character/favorite ship that does not perform/support sexual violations. Don’t know how you can fault me for that.

[toxycodone]

so reading more psychology of sex and stuff has me reflecting on why I enjoy stuff like incest (as someone with a sibling) and noncon/dubcon (as an SA survivor) and like

I know some can stem from reforming trauma and coping but also like! these types of taboo things in fictional media are just interesting to explore and write about. like even for people who aren't victims, these scenarios allow for you to explore/take charge of power imbalances (or even lean into the lack of power without any real life effects) and just. do weird shit that would be abhorrent irl.

the human brain is really complicated. bc when i consider the implications of these topics irl its disgusting. like any of these things being irl scenarios makes it gross and immoral because like, the root of it all, the fact that no one is getting hurt and I as a person have total control over the situation is gone.

but anyways. for anyone that's like a rabid anti and stumbles across this i hope this may shed some light on why people like me write and enjoy content like this

[thegamingcatmom]

Hi,👋

It's the anon that dropped the indirect kiss idea

And might I say go right on ahead for the use, better to see it in action then have it sit in my mind collecting dust lol

(Glad to have made your day with the idea😊 I can think of no one better to use the idea, love what you've already done with it so far, can just imagine tanya stealing a strawberry trying to do seductive flirting or whatever but then its like internally:god this is disgusting and MC going 😟 my strawberry I was saving that)

I had another thought that suddenly just dropped of Kate shenanigans

Instead of cuddling for warmth in a cold environment 👀 reverse it, looking for cold in a way too hot room.

Kate struck with an idea: starts blasting the heat then choosing to sit beside MC and whilst MC sitting on couch starts getting dozy from the sudden warmth her head lulls onto Kate's shoulder and Kate y'know is grinning from this cause it's like a cat deciding to sit in your lap and Tanya starts to get upset,

BUT THEN MC moves onto Kate's lap and starts cuddling into her whilst dozing off cause she's just so cold, and it's so nice, like finding a cold spot on your pillow for your hand,

And Kate? Looks like she's won the jackpot

And tanya seeing this? Furious, unfair, why must the world be so cruel.

And also its like you can't do anything to Kate in this moment cause it's like how a cat suddenly sits on your lap and you are STUCK cat laws you are not allowed to move now, and tanya does not have the heart to move MC.

-📚(if this emoji is not taken) anon :P I will throw more kate shenanigans your way lol

Hellaw again, 📚!

Tysm for letting me make use of your *affectionate* intrusive thoughts. Please, do lemme know when that mind of yours needs some dusting, will ya? 🧹 👉👈

(You´re too kind. 🙏 And YESSS that´s exactly it, LMAO. Tanya trying to flirt, bedroom eyes and all, but failing miserably [something she´s not used to...at all]. And while she´s fighting the urge to puke her guts out because gross, MC´s just there like "why´s this my life", not at all realizing the coven leader just attempted [and failed] to flirt with her. She´s so blissfully unaware her kidnappers got the hots for her, I- 😭)

...Another thought, you say?

Okay, OKAY-

LISTEN-

I was there too. As in, I had a similar idea that came to mind quite a while ago. However, mine wasn´t as...cunning as yours, and I say that with the utmost affection and adoration, believe me. Like, YES to all of that!! Kate using whatever means necessary to get reallll close?? The lil shit-

THAT´S WHAT I´M TALKING ABOUT. 😭🙏

Look, when I started writing The Sisters, I had (and still have) a very clear image of their dynamic with MC:

Cunning daredevils in need of a gentle soul to rein them in.

Or, in other words:

Pubescent teenage boys experiencing their first crush.

(Let´s be real: Kate´s ALWAYS been the tomboy out of them. 😏)

So, yes: Kate manipulating the heating system is DEFO something I can see happening. It´s just so cunning but in such an innocent way, yknow what I´m saying?? Like, let´s be real:

With the power imbalance at play here, the sisters could do a lot worse to MC (Irina´s still contemplating though...). I mean, the worst that´s happened so far was Kate giving our girl a light shove to send her tumbling. (The near wrist-break doesn´t count because it wasn´t intended.) Was it mean af? Yes. Normal people don´t do that. (And the ones who do are just scumbags.) But that shove could have very well sent her flying, had Kate wanted to.

There´s a huge difference between being mean and being cruel, and that´s kinda what I´m trying to convey in my story. We´ll probs see more of their cruel side as well, as we go on. Not necessarily towards MC but, yknow, just a lil reminder now and again that they can, if they want to.

...And also a lil reminder for MC to be a bit more grateful for the lot she involuntarily drew? Perhaps? Mayhaps? (Tanya would feel very pleased about that development indeed.)

...Yeah, probs not. 😅

(Tanya: "But-")

ANYHOW, I digress-

What I meant to say was: Bad guys being not quite so bad when it comes to that ONE person?? Like, they still wanna see this world burn, but they´re gonna make damn sure to get that ONE person first before igniting the fire??? THAT´S WHAT I´M TALKING ABOUT. 😭😭

.

.

.

So ye, I approve of Kate manipulating the heating system just a smidge to achieve her goals. Yep. Defo. 100%. It´s kinda cute, ain´t it? Compared to what she could do instead...

I mean, what´s the alternative here? Setting the house on fire so she can be the one to rescue the damsel in distress and have MC´s overheated body cling to her as if she´s a walking popsicle?

...Come to think of it, I wouldn´t put it past the middle child. Best not give her any ideas. 👀

.

.

.

"And tanya seeing this? Furious, unfair, why must the world be so cruel."

Okay but I love that, LMAO. That´s exactly where Tanya´s mind goes 50% of the time. Like-

Poor thing.

The other 50% is just her thinking about all the different ways she could-

If only MC would let her, god dammit. 😤

(Cruel world alright.)

.

.

.

And yes, very much agree on the cat laws. EVERYONE knows this, right?? Under no circumstances are you to move once a cat deems you worthy enough to be used as a pillow. I mean, what an honor, right??

...Tanya couldn´t care less about that shit, tbh. She despises cats. Hates them with every fibre of her being. They have no business cramping up all her space. Strutting about this place as if they own it. Laughable! This place and everything within belongs to her! She will not sit idly by and watch that hairball lay claim to-

(...I think we hit a sore spot here. 👀)

...You are right about one thing though: She just doesn´t have the heart to move MC. Not when she looks so peaceful, for once. A rare sight indeed.

She´ll get back at her sister, one way or another.

...Later.

...Once she´s managed to avert her gaze from a peacefully sleeping MC.

...

...We´ll probs be here for a while, just saying.

(But also: I sense a truce happening between the wicked duo, don´t you? 😉)

.

.

.

Btw: My idea was more MC getting sick and, yknow, being down with a fever. Her poor body is overheating. And one of the sisters is just...there. And she´s too far gone to realize what she´s doing.

As it stands now, MC would never willingly get close to either of them. So I don´t see her cuddling up to any of them anytime soon.

...Not while she´s in her "right" mind, at least. 😜

.

.

.

But, lemme just say this again, just because:

YOUR KATE IS SO CUNNING I LOVE IT. 😭🤌

Thanks a lot for your ask! 💋💋

As for throwing Kate my way:

...Wait-

O-oh, Kate shenanigans...

I mean-

😭🤌

[just-antishipper-things]

You can ship whatever you want! As long as it's not:

• llegal according to real life standards that vary from country to country. • An age gap of more than a year between two fictional characters. • A relationship between two adult fictional characters where one of them is 5'6" or shorter because that means they're minor-coded. • A relationship between two high school aged characters because all minors are children and cannot experience romantic or sexual attraction to one another until they're over the age of 18. • A relationship with any kind of power imbalance like a boss and their employee. • Set in a high school or college setting because the fictional characters should be focusing on their studies instead of romance. • Set in a workplace setting like an office or a library or a coffee shop because they should be focusing on their work. • Childhood friends to lovers because that's sibling incest coded even if they're not related and have had crushes on each other the entire time. • Fictional teenagers who have been aged up in order to explore adult themes, because aging up fictional characters is gross and wrong, even if there is a natural age progression in canon. Whatever age they started out as in canon is the age they will be forever. • Enemies to lovers because that's romanticizing abuse. • Rivals to lovers because that's power imbalance and it started off on negative terms. • If the characters have any kind of argument or misunderstanding or have ever said anything hurtful to one another, because as we all know no couple ever argues in real life. • If one or both of the characters is an alien or humanoid, because that's considered bestiality. So no shipping that time traveling doctor guy with any of his human companions, no shipping that hunter guy with the angel guy, and no shipping that surly werewolf guy with the sarcastic human from that show about teenage werewolves. • Which reminds me: no shipping of any kind when there's a full moon, or a half moon, or a quarter moon, or any moon in the sky. • And finally, no shipping of any pairing or characters you haven't explicitly run by me first because I make all the rules and if I don't like something, it's not allowed.

[samwisethewitch]

Let's Talk About Religious Appropriation and Christianity

In my previous post, I talked about why religious appropriation matters and why it genuinely impacts pagan communities when culturally Christian authors take our gods out of context. Now I wanna talk about why it doesn't go the other way.

Religious appropriation is when someone from a dominant religious group misuses symbols or practices from a marginalized religion. (Reminder: marginalized means an identity or group is treated as insignificant or pushed to the periphery.) There is an element of power imbalance to appropriation.

In the United States, where I live, Christianity is the dominant religious group. Even Americans who are not practicing Christians themselves are culturally Christian -- they were raised in a culture where Christianity is assumed to be the default. In other parts of the world, the dominant religion may be another faith like Buddhism, Islam, or something else. I will be talking about Christianity in this post because that's my experience, but just remember that this isn't about theology so much as social influence.

Someone living in a culturally Christian society might use Christian symbols or elements in their art for a lot of different reasons. It might be a sincere expression of faith because the artist is a Christian (see: C.S. Lewis). The artist might use Christian symbols because they are widely known and will be easily recognized by their audience (see: It's a Wonderful Life). The artist might use Christian symbols outside of their original context or in a subversion of that context to create comedy (see: Dogma by Kevin Smith) or horror (see: Rosemary's Baby). And finally, they might use those symbols as a critique or satire of organized Christianity (see: Children of the Corn).

In any of those cases, it's highly unlikely that the depiction in this media property is going to overshadow actual Christian practices. Christianity is one of the most widely practiced religions in the world. There are over 2 billion Christians globally. 63% of Americans identify as Christians. (And that number is at an all time low! In older generations, it's higher!) And because of the built-in hierarchy of Christianity, there are designated spokespeople who can speak up to set the record straight.

For a real life example of this, let's think about The Da Vinci Code. For those who don't know, The Da Vinci Code is a thriller novel written by Dan Brown. A major plot point in the story is the reveal that Jesus Christ had sex and fathered children with Mary Magdalene, which is considered a heresy by most Christians. The Catholic Church specifically had a huge negative reaction to Dan Brown writing about them spending 2,000+ years intentionally covering up the fact that Jesus fucked.

And The Da Vinci Code had a HUGE impact on pop culture. The book has sold over 80 million copies in 44 languages. The movie stars huge actors like Tom Hanks and Sir Ian McKellan and was the second-highest grossing film of 2006. The massive protests drew even more media attention. This story was a very big deal for a couple of years.

And yet, most people in America and other culturally Christian countries still know that, in Christian lore, Jesus died without marrying or fathering children. Even people who have read The Da Vinci Code or seen the movie can usually recognize that the whole Mary Magdalene thing is fiction. Even if someone did come away thinking Jesus getting it on with Mary Magdalene was historical fact, they're likely to encounter other media at some point that will depict Jesus as unmarried.

More people do not believe Jesus fucked because of The Da Vinci Code. It has not significantly changed popular perceptions of Christianity, or even of Catholicism. This is because Christianity, and specifically the Catholic Church, are huge institutions with both the power and the platform to set the record straight.

Marginalized religions do not have that kind of power or platform, which is why religious appropriation is a much bigger deal for us. In general, you can't appropriate something from a dominant cultural group.

[kenobster]

Hey just wanna say i (as an individual who ships obikin) thank u for putting encouraging words about obikin even if u see them as besties. It’s really discouraging to see so many other shippers sh*tting on obikin people just for shipping obiwan and anakin. Yes ik it’s a controversial ship if u look at it closely but i just do it for fun (and love the chemistry between them). I dont shit on other ships (unless it’s really REALLY problematic) and like cant they just leave us alone in peace?? Same with reylo like yes it’s another controversial ship but again if u dont think and/or look too hard then just have fun with it.

I dont mind codywan im not a huge fan but i see why they ship it, just aint feeling it like obikin does. Same for the rest of other ships (except for dinluke i will die for it as well)

Sorry for the ramble (^^;) long story short that campaign speech u put for the silly ship poll was well put!

Hi anon, I am incredibly glad to hear that I could reassure you after all the mean things that antishippers have been saying about your ship. Ship and let ship is a crucial rule in this house of mine, in which Obikin and Codywan are both very welcome. :D

However, I do invite you to examine some of your own beliefs about this subject. Specifically, I'm curious what compelled you to say "I don't shit on other ships (unless it's really REALLY problematic)." While that's the part that most stood out to me, there is other concerning verbiage in your ask (i.e. the frequent use of the word "controversial" and "if u don't think and/or look too hard" which both felt like similar apologetic statements you use when shipping something you feel others will judge you for).

First, I want to highlight what you said about why you ship Obikin — "i just do it for fun (and love the chemistry between them)." To me, that communicates that you don't see any harm in someone enjoying a ship purely because it is appealing to them. Additionally, you say, "can't they just leave us alone in peace??" which suggests frustration that other people don't share your opinion.

Is it possible that the "really REALLY problematic" ships are enjoyed by people for reasons similar to yours? Is it possible that they, too, would like others to leave them alone and let them enjoy a harmless hobby in peace? What makes it acceptable to shit on their ships and not yours? Who gets to decide which ship is an Obikin-level ship and which is a "really REALLY problematic" ship? You? Me? Can you be certain that our definitions agree?

The first thing you should consider is what makes you feel like a ship is "really REALLY problematic." I think you'll find that most of it is a Squick factor — a gross-level factor. Maybe Obikin is "hot" to you, but it does gross other people out. Similarly, perhaps some ships, especially ones with components that might not make much sense in real life, are "hot" to others but gross you out.

For example, I'd like you to picture Chancellor Palpatine kissing AOTC Anakin on the mouth. Make sure your imagination includes Anakin's young boyish features and his barely-legal Padawan braid. 😉 Now imagine them having sex. In case you're having a hard time picturing this, here's some pictures of them to help you out! 😊

If you're like most people I know, I bet you're super grossed out right now. You might even consider Palpakin to be much more problematic than Obikin. But I chose Palpakin as a comparison for a reason! Because, when it comes down to it, how are these two ships any different in scale? Anakin views both Obi-Wan and Palpatine as a father figure. Both have mentored Anakin since he was 9 years old. There is a significant age gap and power imbalance in both ships. I've even read both Obikin and Palpakin fics that feature sexual activities with Anakin while he's still a minor.

It seems the only difference is that one tends to gross out the average person more than the other. Is being grossed out a reason to shit on someone's harmless hobby? For example, I'm extremely grossed out by sushi. Is that a reason to ban sushi worldwide? Obikin might gross me out, but I don't come after you or your fellow shippers. Palpakin might gross you out, but that's not an excuse to come after me. And maybe other ships gross both of us out, but I will not join you in going after them.

In other words, ALL fandommers, as you so aptly put, "just want to be left alone" and "enjoy the chemistry" of their ship without "thinking about it too hard." So until you agree that NO ship is problematic, you are inviting the same criticism upon ships that YOU like. Because anti-shippers aren't just coming for the "really REALLY problematic" ships; they're coming for every single one of them.