#because guess where jews HAVE been ethnically cleansed?

[insane-control-room]

tfw you see jewish characters being used for pro-palestine content via the pan-arab colors (without acknowledging their yiddishkeit): wow great job misappropriating TWO cultures at once!

[timetobeaghost]

The Noah hate mob is so much worse than I thought. Finally saw the story pic going through someone's blog. Cluelessly I had kinda figured a "sticker" is something you can add to your pic, like a filter. And I thought he might have made a dumb sexy pose maybe with a hot dude and put "zionism is sexy" on it. I thought he might have been somewhat douchy and insensitive, because that seemed IC to me, making a dumb post in a serious situation.

But no. He is making a selfie with a friend who seems to be involved in anti-antisemitism activism and wears a (literal, yeah everyone but me knows what a sticker is, I guess) "Hamas is ISIS" sticker, which is a very important message (because people did not use to like islamists cutting off people's heads and raping girls back when it wasn't happening in Israel, maybe they could remember that feeling) and holding Stickers in her hand that apparently read "Zionism is sexy", which is meant to proudly support Israel and Israeli jews, which is healthy and understandable considering it is a reaction to a horrible terror attack on Israel and to a reminder that its very existence in in danger. No, Zionism does NOT mean war! Zionism does NOT mean ethnic cleansing. To say this is antisemitic trash. Jews wanting the tiniest bit of land to live in peace and thrive is the farthest thing from evil. Do you know how many Jews used to live in the Middle East. Do you know where their offspring is now? ISRAEL. And nowhere else because they were ethnically cleansed out of everywhere else.

And no Israel is not perfect, radical settlers and a right wing government supporting them and all that. That needs to be solved. That in no way means Israel's existence and with that Zionism is evil.

Now still those ZiS stickers could be criticized as dumb, I guess. As flippant in a serious matter, but any hate boner can only be explained by antisemitism, and Noah really didn't do shit to deserve anything. And then he was told he should be put in a blender by Hamas. Hamas being a terror organization who really does specialize in slaughtering jews in creative ways. For context.

The only proper reaction is 💯 support for Noah!

If you are part of a hate mob you are those people, oh they had good reasons for their spontaneous anger, I am told. Spoiler alert: history has already decided you suck. And I can guarantee you the Duffer brothers deepest revulsion. No one dreams of appeasing you people! Leave ST fandom and enjoy your jihadism fandom, if that's where your priorities lie.

If you are on the side of: "Yes I know he kinda deserves criticism, but lets not overdo it. Bullying is not nice either", congratulations for being human, but you are the majority Germans in the mid 1930s and you can do better.

Because someone asked me what I say to a 6-year -old Palestinian being murdered in the US, I say this is utterly VILE. It was a crazy, violent murderer's reaction to the terror attack and it is endlessly tragic that this happened. It was not a reaction to solidarity with Israel's people. The pos was reacting to the actual event. Peaceful, loving support for the victims is the antitheses to that. I wanna ask back what you think of hundreds of children being brutally murdered or kidnapped in Israel on October 7th. Can we agree that this shit is utterly vile as well? Can we agree THOSE HOSTAGES NEED TO BE BROUGHT HOME? Btw?

[jewish-vents]

I find it ironic and even absurd at this point that the people who advocate against genocide, ethnic cleansing, and discrimination are the same ones who continue to chant and wish to commit these exact same crimes against Israelis/Jews. almost every single Pro-Palestine person that I've ever seen says over and over again that genocide etc is bad. and then the next thing they say is that every Zionist is a n*zi and that they should all die in the most gruesome ways possible, without knowing the actual definition of Zionism of course. I don't get it, i genuinely cannot grasp their mindset. how come wishing death upon Israelis, telling us to "go back to where we came from", and wanting to ethnically cleanse over 7 million Jews is even plausible? I thought you were against mass slaughtering and bigotry?? like these people make no sense. and then they have the audacity to say they're nOt AnTiSeMiTiC. I used to have respect towards human rights activists, and those who deemed themselves liberal or progressive, but I'm actually glad i got to see their true intentions. It's all about hypocrisy and hating jews. it always has been. if these people actually cared about Palestine, they would had promoted and advocated for peace to the region. they would protest against the Israeli government and not blame or dehumanize the entire population. they would speak about the two state solution, because no matter what that really is the only solution for this conflict. but noo, instead they wanna simp for terrorist organizations and globalize the intifada, targeting Jews around the world. I am so tired of this crap. both Israelis and Palestinians have nowhere to go, so why must everyone scream and chant for violence and chaos, or glorify the atrocities of Oct 7th? this won't solve anything. but i guess it's easier being antisemitic, right?

.

[odinsblog]

Saying israel isnt related to judaism is antisemitc, brah. Bar none. Israel is the second word in our most important daily prayer and "next year in jerusalem" our annual call to action during the Zionist holoday of passover where we celebrate going HOME to ISRAEL 😱. if you keep listening to the small majority of self hating, white passing american jews on tumblr you're gonna keep being called antisemitic cause you are.

netanyahu and the right wingers suck. So do the arab colonizers whove refused peace since the un told the muslim occupiers they had to share their atolen land with native and returning diaspora jews

[re: this post]

OMG, anon is this really what you wake up for in the morning?

I want anyone reading this to note that anon had to create a strawman argument to attack me for something that I never said

It’s weak sauce, “brah”

This is how some people have to argue when they cannot actually defend their feeble, misguided, deadass wrong opinions

Show me where I ever said that “Israel isn’t related to Judaism,” and I’ll delete my blog

What I said was, “Jewish people are Jewish whether they're religious Jews who have been to a synagogue, or not. Non-religious, non-observant Jewish people are still Jewish people. Intentionally conflating ‘religious Jews’ with all Jewish people is antisemitic,” and then I said that “conflating Israel with all Jewish people is also antisemitic”

It’s all right there in the post, “brah”

And how tf are “Arab colonizers” and Muslims “occupying” a place where they’ve been living since forever? Do you think that Native Americans are also occupiers??

Please stop talking

You’re embarrassing yourself

Arab peoples are Semitic, as are Jewish people. Jon Stewart once touched upon this extremely salient point, and I haven’t forgotten about it ever since. BTW, he wasn’t on Tumblr when he said this (and neither was Seth Rogan), but EYE definitely brought it to tumblr

And I think it’s cute that you think I care what Zionists call me. Like, I haven’t ever been called antisemitic, but it wouldn’t carry much weight coming from Islamophobic, racist zealots who routinely call other Jewish people antisemites just because they disagree with them—the bulk of the students protesting at Columbia University are Jewish (many with direct ties to Israel, or descendants of Holocaust survivors), but I guess somehow their voices aren’t supposed to count, because they don’t agree with YOUR fuckery?

Pfft

Please STFU and don’t bother me again

But just for added clarity: This is not a “religious” war, this is about ethnic cleansing, illegal settlements and land grabs that Israel has been doing nonstop and continuously since 1948

In conclusion, anon you are full of shit and about to get blocked if you continue with dropping this bullshit in my inbox, because I refuse to debate every rando with a keyboard and an internet connection—maybe try Discord or find a subreddit for r/assholes?

But before I go, I’ll leave this video (the transcript is in the original post)

and a link to this post, where people who actually know what they’re talking about explain it far better than I ever could.

[religion-is-a-mental-illness]

7 Things pro-Palestinians Forgot to Tell You (...this war is not about land...)

You hear so much about Israel and Gaza in the news. But there are a few things that pro-Palestinians forget to tell you. Here is a quick summary of the things you need to know.

1) Why don’t the Palestinians have a state?

So you have the Jews and the Arabs fighting over the same piece of land. Why not divide it into two? This smart idea has been proposed a few times throughout history: in 1937, in 1947, in 2003 and in 2008. The British proposed it, the UN, and the Americans. And while the Israelis were willing to compromise and accept this solution, the Palestinians kept saying no to it. By the end of this video, you will understand why. Here is a hint. It is not about the land.

2) You are next

You may well be saying to yourself: Who cares? So the Jews and the Arabs are fighting over a piece of land and each thinks that God is on their side and it is all just stupid religious stuff. Well, you’re wrong, because you may well be next. Hamas and all their friends – ISIS, Hezbollah, the Taliban, the Muslim brotherhood – they all want a Muslim world. They see Spain as a Muslim land, and Rome as the capital of the Crusaders, the infidels. And London, and Paris, and Berlin, and Manhattan… They accuse the Jews of wanting to control the world, yet they themselves very clearly state that that’s what they want to do. I listen to them, and so should you. Ignoring reality and wishful thinking doesn’t make you morally superior. I urge you to go to one of the anti-Israel rallies happening near you and ask the young Muslims (who, by the way, are the fastest-growing community in Europe) whether they prefer European democracy or Sharia law. Or whether it should be illegal to be gay. Really, please just try it and see.

3) Why are there so many Palestinian refugees in the world? 

Hundreds of millions of people all over the world have become refugees as a result of war or other disasters from 1945 till today. A UN agency was set up to help all the refugees. And there is also another separate agency, called UNRWA, for the most privileged refugees in the world - the Palestinians. You’re probably asking yourself why the world needs two agencies? Well, the difference between these agencies is that UNRWA, the agency for the Palestinians, allows the Palestinians to pass their refugee status on to their sons and grandsons and great grandsons and so on. So instead of putting all the money into helping the real refugees in the world, the UN is pouring money into Gaza, whose people are using this money to finance Hamas.

4) Ethnic cleansing

Israel is accused of ethnic cleansing. Let’s check the numbers. In 1948 there were 160,000 Israeli Arabs; today there are two million. In 1967, there were around a million Palestinians; today there are 4.5 million. I am not very good at math, but I do know that two million is more than 160,000. Now let’s have a look at the number of Jews in neighboring countries. In Lebanon in 1948 there were 6,000 Jews; today there are about 100. In Syria, 80 years ago, there were more than 30,000 Jews. Today there are basically zero. In Egypt in 1940 there were 70,000 Jews. Today there are three. So yes, there is ethnic cleansing going on in the Middle East – but it’s the Muslims who are doing it to the Jews. My next video will be about this very topic. 

By the way, the two million Arabs living in Israel enjoy exactly the same rights as the Jews. Is it all perfect and uncomplicated? No. But if you ask Israeli Arabs where they want to live – in Israel or under Palestinian rule, most of them will choose Israel. Israeli Arabs enjoy more rights and a higher standard of living than any Arabs in the Middle East. Did you know that it was an Arab judge that sent the president of Israel to jail? I guess not. Most Israelis don’t know about this either. And do you know why? Because what does it matter if the judge is a Jew or an Arab or a Druze? The president was a criminal and so he was sent to jail.

5) Hamas doesn’t like gays

You will have seen lots of so-called progressives marching proudly with the Palestinians in pro-Hamas demonstrations. They didn’t get put on the streets when half a million died in the war in Syria; they didn’t demonstrate when Iran murdered girls who refused to cover their hair. Pakistan is about to deport 1.7 million Afghans. I wonder if a single progressive will come out and demonstrate for them… The progressives have apparently decided to team up with Hamas. Do you know what one of the first things Hamas did when it came to power in Gaza was? They rounded up gay men and took them up onto a roof. And not to enjoy a rooftop party but… Lesbians are not welcome either. Actually, no progressive ideas are welcome in Gaza.

6) Gaza is not a prison

Let’s talk about Gaza. Is Gaza really the biggest prison camp in the world? Gaza shares borders with Israel and Egypt. Israel doesn’t control the border with Egypt, so how can it be a prison? Moreover, Hamas, which was elected in 2007, very clearly states that it wants to destroy Israel. And yet Israel continues to provide water, electricity and aid to Gaza. Have you heard about any other countries that provide humanitarian aid to their enemies? And how about this: did you know that the daughter of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh was treated in an Israeli hospital? Hamas is one of the richest terror organizations in the world, and Haniyeh has a net worth of 4 billion dollars. He resides in one of the most expensive hotels in Qatar while his people are suffering in Gaza. But unlike others who blame Hamas leaders who have billions in the bank and are now living in Qatar and Turkey, I don’t blame them. 

If Hamas enjoys the support of 65% of the people in Gaza, then what is happening is their fault. I will now say a crazy thing that has never been said before by the mainstream media. The people of Gaza are responsible for their situation. I know it’s shocking. They aren’t choosing terror because they are poor. They are poor because they are choosing terror. Money is not the problem. The people of Gaza get more money from the UN, the Arab countries, the European Union and the US than any other group, but instead of investing in education and infrastructure, they build tunnels and rockets. There is no shortage of that in Gaza.

7) Constitutions

I am sure you have noticed my heavy, yet beautiful, Israeli accent - and yes, this is the Israeli perspective. The thing is that after seeing this, you might switch to the BBC and see the other side, the Palestinian side. And you’ll be like: Who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? To answer this question, I like to go to the source, rather than relying on he said, she said. Let’s look at the basics, at what each entity, Israel and Hamas, says about themselves. The Israeli Declaration of Independence says: WE EXTEND our hand to all neighboring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighborliness, Israel will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion or race; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; 

The Hamas constitution says: Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam obliterates it. There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.

This conflict is not about land; it is about values. Jihad, violence and death versus freedom, equal rights and peace. Which side are you on?

I want to thank my supporters. You keep me going! The success of this video is determined by you. Like it and share it. See you next week. Yalla bye.

==

If you've been following me for a while, you'll know this is not some kind of strawman, it's an explicit tenet of Islam that it has global supremacist intentions.

If this was about land, it would have been resolved decades ago, since there have been multiple offers made, all of which have been rejected. It's about killing all the Jews, conquering the lands, and then waging jihad globally.

I've been talking about Islam and its goals for years, so to turn around and say, oh, this isn't about religion, when Hamas terrorists are telling you that it is, and it's exactly what Islamic doctrine declares... you suddenly have a short memory. What did you think it would look like?

This is Islam. This is jihad. This is what Islam wants. This is what Islam promises to do worldwide. This is what Islam looks like in full Muhammadean flight.

And exterminating jihadists who know they have their god's divine command behind them, who say themselves that the only solution is jihad, is the only way to defend a non-Sharia world.

[clarabosswald]

I've been reading your posts about the Israel-Palestine issue and I'm messaging you without going on anon to show that I have a genuine desire to understand. You've said you don't support apartheid and you're not a zionist so I want to ask why you believe the issue is that complicated, and get your genuine response. I'm from Pakistan, a country created in the name of religious protection and it has been at the helm of several genocides and displacements to this day. I lived in South Africa where the settler population coexists after the abolition of apartheid. I'm now a settler in Canada and I support the fight for land back and the dissolution of the colonial state even as I reside in it because I would prefer to be welcomed on this land after Indigenous sovereignty has been returned. I am just curious if you really do feel such an attachment to Israel's existence knowing that from its conception it has been a settler colonial apartheid state. Certainly Netanyahu has worsened it but the ethnic cleansing, ghettoization, displacement, imprisonment without grounds, and torture of Palestinians has been ongoing for decades. I do believe that most people currently advocating for Palestine's liberation and the dissolution of Israel as a state don't want to kill or even displace all Israelis, there is just an understanding that Israel's existence depends on the subjugation of Palestinians. And as for Hamas, most people would not want Hamas as a governing body but Israel has backed all Palestinian resistance efforts especially peaceful ones into such a corner that at this point Hamas is like any violent resistance force such as the ones in Ireland, Algeria, Haiti, Vietnam or elsewhere. Would you disagree that the violence they enact is rooted in Israeli violence? Decades of brutal oppression can only lead to radicalization in this way. I hope that you will understand I'm genuinely trying to gain your perspective on these issues and not trying to attack you. This situation is personal to me because the loss of lives is heartbreaking and I've lived in so many countries where violence not only paints the history but the present and I wish we lived in a world where borders and militaries did not exist. But I've come to learn that unfortunately peace is often achieved when there is violent resistance to oppression.

I already sent follow up direct messages so I'm SO SORRY for spamming you but I guess I'm nervous about you misreading my tone since it's easy to do that online and people have attacked you regarding all this. I just want to reiterate I make no claims to knowing everything and certainly not to knowing you and your allegiances or politics. I can tell you care about people and that's why I want to have a genuine conversation, if you'll engage with me

hi - first of all, you seem to be coming with good faith and nowadays that's not obvious at all, so thank you for that

the first thing i want to address is that yes, i'm not a zionist. at the same time i've got no fucking idea what constitutes "zionism" in western eyes at this point in time. but i don't believe jewish people have got some super special holy right of "owning" israeli lands or whatever, just because they're jewish and it's the people's ~promised land~. that's zionism how i understand it. and i don't believe in that because i'm a secular (non-believing) jew.

"why you believe the issue is that complicated" is a question that on the one hand seems extremely weird to me, and on the other hand... really makes complete sense. i say that it's complicated because there are literally decades upon decades at the very least of history behind the events that started on october 7th. and i've found that westerners seem to be desperate for some easy-to-digest, eli-5 version of it. they want fairytale morality where they can say that one side is 100% good and the other side is 100% evil. they don't want to think, to have mental/moral struggles. i think it's... naive at best, to expect something that involves decades/centuries of history and millions upon millions of people, to be that simple.

"I am just curious if you really do feel such an attachment to Israel's existence" - because it's where i was born, where my family was born, where my friends were born, the only place i've ever lived in. it's my home. it's hot and humid, the people are often rude and inconsiderate, every time it rains there's a stupid amount of flooding in the streets... and it's the only home i've ever known. is that really that hard to understand?

"I do believe that most people currently advocating for Palestine's liberation and the dissolution of Israel as a state don't want to kill or even displace all Israelis" - you know, i believe so too. that's why it's so flabbergasting to see many of the same people repeat the speaking points of different organizations that for many years have called for exactly the killing/displacement of all israelis (or at least all the jewish ones). the absolute lack of critical thinking and source-checking is infuriating. or just... the general ignorance. 99% of the people who are involved in the recent protests have probably never even heard of hamas before october 7th. honestly, considering what i've seen and heard, some of them probably still are ignorant of its existence. for fuck's sake, i've seen people think that the gaza strip is the west bank because it's located to the west.

"And as for Hamas, most people would not want Hamas as a governing body but Israel has backed all Palestinian resistance efforts especially peaceful ones into such a corner that at this point Hamas is like any violent resistance force such as the ones in Ireland, Algeria, Haiti, Vietnam or elsewhere." - can you give examples to the most recent peaceful palestinian efforts? the most recent attempt at the peace process i can think of off the top of my head is the oslo accords... possibly camp david? and i assume i don't need to explain what those were and what happened after them? but i might be missing something more recent. your mentions of other locations in the world are an excellent shout because i do believe the israeli-palestinian conflict is nothing like them. i do believe it's a unique conflict in global terms. i do think the ongoing comparisons in the west to other historical conflicts is part of the same western attempts to simplify it and make it more palatable (?) to the western audience.

"Would you disagree that the violence they enact is rooted in Israeli violence?" - to be as thorough about it as i can? no, i don't, because this (arab-jewish tensions/clashes/violence in the region of palestina/palstine/israel) goes way before the state of israel was declared. at the same time i think this is infantilizing towards palestinians. neither side's violence is just reactionary or devoid of responsibility and choice.

"Decades of brutal oppression can only lead to radicalization in this way." - what's maddening to me about this specific argument point is that the exact same thing can be said of israelis in particular and jewish people worldwide in general. (my point being that i do not accept any kind of excuse for violence against civilians and innocents, anywhere.)

"This situation is personal to me because the loss of lives is heartbreaking and I've lived in so many countries where violence not only paints the history but the present" - i appreciate your sympathy and sense of personal connection. from my perspective i can tell that since october 7th i've had to start paying a lot less attention/ignoring western opinions, or i'd have gone mad weeks ago. (not just as a form of speech. i'm so thankful for going back to therapy a few months ago.) it probably started back when i started following the russian invasion of ukraine. i've seen western reactions to the suffering of the ukrainian people and there was something very... disconnected, about those reactions. i realized that you can't... just make someone understand what it's like to live under rocket/missle/drone fire. the sound of them hitting around you. or exploding overhead. feeling the shockwave hit your body while you hide in shelter and can only hope that the roulette won't land on you this time because it was, 100% directed at you and your family and friends, at civilians, openly and unapologetically. to live in war in your own home. it's the exact same now with the current war (which is far from being the first war i've lived through). i've reached the conclusion that the only opinion that really mattes is that of palestinians and israelis. the rest just cannot begin to comprehend.

"But I've come to learn that unfortunately peace is often achieved when there is violent resistance to oppression." - and after over 75 years of violence (if we're only counting since the establishment of israel, which, i repeat, is really not the starting point of any of this, neither is the current war since october 7th), where did that get us? what did that achieve?

to which i can segue to one of my main opinions: the whole reason this conflict has been going on for so long, and only gets worse, is because more importance is being given to the past than to the future. the heads of both israeli and palestinian leaderships are stuck in the past and up their own assholes (either alternatively or at the same time, it's a true biological miracle). the only thing that will truly make a change is when people will realize that the wheels can't be turned back and we can't replicate what used to be. the only way to create a sustainable and peaceful future for both israelis and palestinians would be to give up the glorification of the past. but to be clear, i'm well aware that i'm an idealist and the chances of my ideals actually happening are nonexistent.

this post is long enough as is but i want to touch on a few more points and attempt to paint a slightly more complete picture here.

the old yishuv (if you're interested, the hebrew version of this wiki article is a lot more comprehensive, and google translate should do a good enough job on it)

Expulsions and exoduses of Jews

Jewish exodus from the Muslim world

Mizrahi Jews in Israel

Ethiopian Jews in Israel

Arab citizens of Israel

The Hamas Networks in America: A Short History

fuck bibi, fuck ben gvir, fuck smotrich, fuck levin, fuck their coalition of religious nutjobs and rightwing extremists, fuck the west bank settlers, fuck jewish terrorism, fuck jewish supremacy.

[cantotallyeven]

OK look, I'm not reblogging that Trump Tirade of wild, frequently off-topic, entirely uncited claims. But I want to say that if you are interested in understanding a bit better why people like me feel the way they do about Israel - that is, that it's fair to label it an ethnostate and that is something that needs to change, NOT that it should cease to exist - you should look at the history of colonisation in Rhodesia or the USA. All of these arguments - "we want X group to have their own country too, on this land we've chosen for them", "actually we have people from X group who we've integrated", "they would do worse to us" - they've been run before.

I don't personally agree with the slogan "from the river to the sea, palestine [must/will] be free" because of how imprecise it is, the fact that it can be read as calling for a reverse ethnic cleansing (which would be just as bad as what is happening now). However, I know that a lot of people who do use it and agree with it envisage a South Africa style one-state solution. That's personally what I'd want to see as well.

I appreciate that if you're an Israeli Jew this is a very difficult time. I live in the UK and find it horrifying that my country is acting as a passive enabler of Netanyahu's agenda. If you wholeheartedly support a free Palestinian country, it must be awful seeing it reduced to rubble and feeling there's nothing you can personally do to stop it.

I'll just breeze past your opinion insult there. So you say I should look into the history of colonization in the US. But here's the thing. Israel is actually a decolonization project. it was literally the indigenous people going home. And those indigenous people didn't want to kick the current occupants out, they wanted to live there in peace with them. But those current occupants didn't like that. They refused to give the Jews equal rights. And when Britain and the UN left, they went and tried to ethnically cleanse all of the Jews. They failed. So what were the Jews to do? Simply say "no worries' and let all of the Palestinians back in?

You say you envision a one state solution South Africa style but how would that work? Cuz like, the population of Gaza + the West Bank is around 5 million. The population of Israel is 9 million. Isn't that equivalent to Israel just taking control of Palestine? Like, even if the 2 million Arabs form a voting block with the incoming Palestinians, it would still be the current Israeli government in control until all of the new citizens are integrated. And again, this assumes that Hamas would not have an issue living in peace with Jews, they've shown time and again that they don't want that. Like yes, in an ideal world that would happen, but I don't think it could in the real world.

And yes, seeing all of that death and destruction sucks. I guess where we differ is I feel Hamas is more to blame for that than the IDF.

[samofthefool]

I'd like to kindly ask if any of you have considered reading a book, like, ever. Pan-Arab Nationalism which is where the modern Palestinian movement arose from, was clearly anti-imperialist.

The, at the time, secular Palestinian nationalists viewed many of the Jews in the region as European invaders, however, this view lacks nuisance and may have been colored by European Anti-Semitism.

While many of the Jews that were involved in the process of carving out a space for Jews to live were more affluent, they were working towards a state because they were, as a class, an oppressed minority in Europe.

A good analogy to this would have been if Black Americans would have been forced to Liberia more than they already were after the Civil War and forced to fight against the natives, the British and the French at the same time. The black free slaves that were put there would also be considered victims of colonialism. Keep in mind that some black thought leaders at the time also liked the idea, much like some Jews liked the idea of a state in Isreal and some didn't.

In Israel's case, both the British leaders and the Jewish thought leaders won out for the most part and Jews went to Palestine. They had been before the mandate as well, but this could also be said of Liberia if we are keeping the analogy.

Now, at the time, Palestine was under the British mandate after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. We can all say, hey, maybe carving up countries isn't good and self-determination should be a thing, but that type of thought about nations and peoples was only just emerging. Hence why a lot of middle eastern borders wreck some ethnic groups pretty hard. (Looking at the Kurds)

So unfortunately, we have a situation where the British are saying, hey, Jews, you can be safe here and do your Jew stuff, all while a national consciousness was growing among the Palestinian people, much like it was across the whole of the Arab world.

So the British are like, ok, ok, Palestinians, right, I guess they're a thing now? (Not that they entirely weren't before, but from the British view) Sure, you can also have some of this land, but not the majority of it because we sort of promised our oppressed minority we want to get rid of a big chunk already.

Palestinian factions egged on by support from neighboring expansionist Arab states amidst the Pan-Arab movement said no, and the 48 war began.

So yes, the Palestinians are very much victims of colonialism, but it would probably be incorrect to call the Jews colonialists in the traditional sense.

Additionally, it would be wise to add that the Palestinians are victims of not only European colonialism, but Arab imperialism as well, as they were used for some time in the region for territorial squabbles with little to no real care for their sovereignty.

As the conflict raged on things have gotten a lot worse. The Palestinian side is no longer secular and their Arab allies have lost interest in their utility, meanwhile the Israeli side is becoming more fundamentalist and emboldened by a lack of political consequences to slowly do an ethnic cleansing. (I won't say genocide here because it really does look like their policies as of now are meant to push the Palestians into the surrounding states, not eradicate them entirely. Still bad, but these are different terms.)

And of course, the Palestinian side has lost the secularism and have become Islamic fundamentals that are perfectly ok with breaking the laws of war constantly (although Israeli isn't faultless here either, Hamas is a lot worse), using child soldiers, and embedding fighters in the civilian population to score sympathy points from the west when Israel conducts urban warfare.

Ultimately, pressures from the West and the Arab world have emboldened both sides to continue to fight each other and their civilian populations don't seem like they want the violence to end yet.

Getting back to Avatar, Aang would hate this whole conflict. The only thing he would want right now is a ceasefire and for everyone to sit down and figure out how to stay at peace.

I guess, what I mean to say is that there is no "Fire Nation" here and if there is one, it's the British.

[rauthschild]

We told you that the British and their Roman compatriots decided that things were getting too hot in this country prior to Ronald Reagan's administration; they made all the overtures, paid all the payola with our assets, encouraged our industries to leave America and move to China with huge tax breaks, yes, yes, to take advantage of Chinese slave labor.

It was all so schmarmy. Lots of celeb photos of Ronnie, the Great Peacemaker, selling us out, surrounded by equally smiling Chinese politicians.

That's where and when the exodus of industry from America to China began, and the first moves to relocate the parasitic "British Crown Interests" to China began.

Who is engaged with and a member of BRICS right now? The Brits, of course. Plying their dirty trade as Masters of Deceit, trying to distance themselves from the financial disaster they have created.

It's not only a matter of them hypocritically destroying the criminal financial system they set up here and profited from for 160-plus years --- at our expense. It's the cheek of them blaming us for it.

These are the same people who call concentration camps "gated communities". The same cynical wordsmiths that call genocide "ethnic cleansing" in an effort to side-step the truth --- and the law.

https://x.com/LemkinInstitute/status/1850251102920581557

They are vicious, because they know they are guilty.

As soon as you catch on to who has done all this to us and to Western Europe and Japan and the former Commonwealth, you can start working out the solution to this problem. And it doesn't involve war in the Middle East. And it doesn't involve any "civil war" here.

It instead requires a worldwide round-up of criminals, caught red-handed.

Warn everyone else. Don't let the parasites continue their activities without raising the alarm. Showcase and spotlight the one country that is always, always, always at the bottom of the dogpile and its Roman Curia masters.

When people are misled by the British Bunko Artists, anything is possible, even complete reversals of logic.

Imagine the irony of Microsoft firing employees who participated in a demonstration for Palestinian relief and accusing them of being Anti-Semitic?

https://x.com/JeremyWard33/status/1850137803935359052

If you are pro-life and anti-war, if you are for peace and against naked commercial aggression, you are now "Anti-Semitic".

According to research done by Michael McKibben and others, there are no actual Hebrews left, and the vast majority of those who consider themselves Jews in the current day have no Semitic blood at all.

So calling those who resist the slaughter in Gaza "Anti-Semitic" is really the height of both ignorance and hypocrisy: because the most humble Palestinian or Yemeni has more Semitic blood in his fingertip than Benjamin Netanyahu.

The true "Anti-Semites" are obviously all those who are killing the Arab peoples, including the Palestinians.

And guess who is right there, promoting the genocide in Gaza?

https://x.com/QudsNen/status/1850265984499957931

It's time for us all to realize that we have been snookered. Royally.

https://x.com/apocalypseos/status/1850289489706676437

How is this possible? Ever heard of buying influence? Literally?

Meet AIPAC, the Zionist-Israeli Lobby:

https://x.com/KerryBurgess/status/1850161767755735473

And last but not least, if you have been feeling that "nothing makes sense anymore" --- you aren't imagining things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQyjO2bD4Rw

These are all short little blurbs, but taken together, they add up to a Big Picture.

[messy-does-cosmology]

Omg guys how about instead of going into my anon asks and telling me about how you think Israelis should be ethnically cleansed, you could write to your representatives about your beliefs instead! Mine are actually not relevant to anything at all. I cannot change anything personally. All I can do is be in solidarity with groups campaigning for peace. Funnily enough, ethnic cleansing, murdering civilians, and genocide are not peace! So I'm not actually interested in joining you in that.

Once again, I am a tumblr blog of a 23 year old cosmologist from England. I'm not the queen. I'm not Joe Biden. I cannot actually personally make Netanyahu die. You should not be this obsessed with my perceived lack of posting about explicit war crimes in Palestine.

I don't post about the horrors in Palestine for the same reasons I don't post about the horrors on October 7th. Because I cannot healthily interact with news about genocide or murder of civilians and then just go about my day. More power to you if you can, but I can't do that. I also refuse to become a vector for stoking factionalism between Jews and Arabs. The majority of where I get my information on peace related movements is from the Jewish/Palestinian solidarity group in Israel. Those are people actually working together in their grief to try and campaign for a lasting peace.

I post about antisemitism in the pro-Palestine movement because I hope people will listen, and then become more productive members of the movement. Stoking racial hatred only leads to more war, which is what Netanyahu and Hamas want.

No one has any right to tell me I don't care. It's because I care that I'm so careful with my words and my advocacy. I have been writing to my local rep about a ceasefire for the past 2 weeks, and a few days ago she voted for a ceasefire in parliament. It wasn't because of me, it was because of how many other people did that. But I do care. Obviously.

You people on the Internet are really showing yourselves here. It's not the ratio you have a problem with, it's that I value the lives of Israeli civilians at all. And this most recent asker told me that explicitly! That I cannot care about both. Well guess what. I can. And I do. I will not dehumanise millions of people for the sake of a nice easy "kill the baddies" narrative. The only real iron dome is peace, and peace is possible. It is not too late. Another world is possible.

[some-eldritch-bats]

Can we just quickly address a few things???

Yes, Israel's government bends the knee to the ultraorthodox faction of Israel's Jewish community.

No, that does not mean that even most orthodox Jews support the Israeli government.

Yes, support for a quasi-fascist (or just regular fascist, depends on how you define it) government is bad.

No, that does not give you the freedom to grill every Jew you meet asking them to prove that they don't support Israel otherwise you'll assume they do and try to make their life difficult over it.

Yes, Palestinian people are where Hamas recruits most of its followers, and Hamas is Not Fucking Good For Palestine.

No, that does not mean "most Palestinians" support Hamas and NO it does not give you the freedom to stereotype Palestinians anymore than you could stereotype Jews. And frankly, even the ones who do loosely support Hamas?? You know what, I get it, I'd be willing to loosely support shitty people too if they were the only ones who defended me against being quite literally at major risk of being shot in the street.

Really cannot stress enough that like... I don't have numbers or anything, but I'm guessing that a fairly big majority of Jews not only do not support Israel, but would actively seek to see it change quite radically if they could do Literally Anything about it.

And, like... guys, I'm never going to blame a Palestinian who supports Hamas' actions because... again, yeah. I'd support people who were the thing standing between me and bullets too. But we do have to reckon with the fact that Hamas are not actually good news for Palestine or Palestinians as a people in the long term. They're cheering for an ethnostate just as hard as the current Israeli government is and I'm broadly of the opinion that gleefully trying to build an ethnostate is Quite Bad Actually.

That said, we (by which I mean Jews) still need to deal with the simple fact that Israel's government is currently on the edge of attempting to enact an out-and-out genocide. You can call it "ethnic cleansing" if you like, a phrase that is still fucking horrifying, but there's no actual line between that and genocide. I know we as a community, even those of us like me who have been somewhat sheltered from the strict realities of it until semi-recently, have at least some degree of cultural trauma over the Holocaust... but that does not give us the freedom to blithely ignore when our siblings by culture might be on the cusp of trying to create another one.

And, for fuck's sake

Don't let the right wing morons use this as ammunition to push antisemitism.

I have already seen comic strips by far-right/fascist artists who are going "yes, look at how bad the Jews are! This is why we are justified in killing them!" Do not fall into the fucking trap of pushing fash rhetoric or allowing it to grow. THEY DO NOT SUPPORT PALESTINE. THEY JUST HATE JEWS.

[leviathan-supersystem]

the simple fact remains that nothing that any other state has done- whether that state is germany, or the other arab nations- justifies the treatment of the people of palestine.

at any rate @thesasukecomplex:

There has never been a sovereign state called Palestine, and there has never been a recognised region called Palestine or Falastin either.

i already conceded your first point, but the second point is an outright lie. the region was referred to as Syria Palestina under the romans, then later split into sections called palestina prima, palestina segunda, and palestina salutaris under the byzantines.

Perhaps it was locally referred as Falastin, but none of the Muslim rulers of the land prior to the British had a recognized name for the region.

wrong, the region was referred to as Jund Filastin under the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates. [link]. this was not just the local name and was in fact the official designation of that region by the muslim rulers.

Because in 1939 Amin al-Husseini was offered a partition plan where 80% of the land would befall under a sovereign Palestinian state. Guess what he did? He DECLINED THE OFFER. Why, you ma ask? BECAUSE HE DID NOT WANT JEWS TO HAVE THEIR OWN STATE. Even if they just had a small portion of the land,

leaving aside that Amin al-Husseini is not the be-all end-all of the representatives of the palestinian people, you're ignoring that A: obviously no one's going to agree to any partition plan that involves the mass expulsion of people from the land they live on, especially given that the Peel Commission did not allow for any independent palestinian state. palestinians didn't want to have significant portions of their population resettled while still living under british rule? yeah no shit. and B: the twentieth zionist congress also rejected the peel commission because they didn't feel 20% was enough land.

also like, who do you think you're going to convince with this argument? people who are opposed to the nakba/continuing apartheid state generally are against any amount of forced displacement to establish an ethnostate- no one's going to go "gosh, the zionists only wanted to do a little ethnic cleansing at first? wow that's sooo reasonable and it's soooo unfair that palestinians didn't agree to be displaced from the land they had lived in for centuries- it's only fair that if the palestinians wouldn't willingly submit to a little ethnic cleansing, they should be punished with a lot of ethnic cleansing" be serious for a moment you're not going to win anyone over with that.

The opposition of Jewish immigration even dates back to the Ottoman Empire when the Egyptian rulers opened up free immigration for Jews and revoked their dhimmi status. The Palestinian and Arab response was to massacre Jews. The Hebron massacre of 1834 and the Damascus affair in the 1860s were proof of their unwillingness to live beside Jews.

incredibly misleading description of both events. the hebron massacre of 1834 first of all was committed by the egyptians, not the palestinians, and in fact the palestinian peasant uprising was the primary target of the massacre. the egyptian forces did also engage in antisemitic violence, despite jewish people not having participated in the palestinian peasant uprising, but of the ~500 killed by egyptian forces, the vast majority were palestinian arabs. [link]

regarding the damascus affair, this was instigated by christians who made a false accusation regarding the disappearance of a monk named father thomas- not to mention it wasn't even in palestine, it was, as the name would indicate, in damascus syria.

i suppose you're going to say "ah, but i said 'the palestinian AND ARAB response ahaha", but for that to be valid i think at least one of the two examples you gave would have to have been committed by palestinians. and that's not to say that there were never examples of ethnic strife between jewish and palestinian people under ottoman rule, but if it were really as inescapably pervasive as you claim, you wouldn't have to use acts committed by egyptians and syrian christians as your go-to examples.

the charitable interpretation of your error is that you're simply lazy and intellectually incurious, you just looked up "antisemitic violence in ottoman syria" and didn't bother to check who committed the violence, or whether it was even the the palestine part of ottoman syria. the less charitable interpretation is that you're lying deliberately to manufacture a narrative in which there was already extreme opposition to jewish immigration/presence in palestine prior to the creation of contemporary political zionism in the late 19th century. this is a lie, there were various waves of jewish immigration to palestine during the ottoman period which largely went without incident.

the examples of palestinian opposition to jewish immigration in palestine which you referenced (the actual examples, that is) were after the emergence of zionism and overt british support for the zionist cause- to look at palestinian opposition to a wave of immigration which was specifically part of a settler-colonial project to displace the arab population and establish a jewish ethnostate, and conclude on that basis that palestinians must have been against jewish immigration in any and all contexts, is ludicrous. especially since opposition to jewish immigration in this time period was often explicitly phrased in terms of concern about the advancement of the zionist project. you're acting like the 1947 partition plan came out of nowhere, when in fact it was the culmination of a zionist project which had been moving forward since at least the balfour declaration.

also it's shockingly ignorant of the various jewish immigrant communities that moved to palestine under ottoman rule and lived there in peace, from Chaim ibn Attar and his followers, to Menachem Mendel of Vitebsk and his followers, and so forth.

and let's return to what you said here:

So no, Jews could not just immigrate and settle into Palestine and everybody would sing Kumbaya around a bonfire.

is everybody singing kumbaya around a bonfire now?

no, of course not, for whatever hypotheticals you might raise about what violence might have occurred had jewish immigration occurred in the absence the zionist project, it is dwarfed by the very real violence which is occurring specifically as a result of advancing the zionist project, and trying to displace the arab population to establish a jewish ethnostate.

Imagine being so dumb and wilfully ignorant you cannot even use google, because this information you can find easily.

you couldn't even be bothered to check who committed the hebron massacre of 1834, or who the majority of the people killed by egyptian forces were.

But what do you expect from someone who uses Al-Jazeera as a source. The same Al Jazeera that made up a story about the IDF raping Palestinian women

this is false- the story was not made up by al jazeera, but rather the story was concocted by Jamila al-Hissi, who was later found to have fabricated the story by an investigation by hamas and al jazeera themselves, who publicly retracted the story. this is reported on here in the times of israel, which is obviously not a pro-palestine source [link]. so apparently in your book reporting on a rape accusation, and then later reporting that rape accusation had been investigated about found without merit, renders a source too lacking in credibility for it to ever be permissible to link them (i notice you can't find any actual inaccuracies in the article i linked). but surely you would only post/reblog the most credible possible news sources, such as ::checks notes:: fox news [link].

anyways back to @nerdylilpeebee:

Why should the Jews trust a islamic state?

i like how you're acting as if the proposal made in the 1988 Hamas charter of an islamist state is some real and present possibility, as if hamas is going to somehow gain total unconditional victory in the near future and simultaneously revert to their original more extreme 1988 party line. the reason i brought that up is to illustrate that even the most hardline elements of the palestinian resistance are open to a multi-ethnic state, not because i think that establishing an islamist state is the an ideal, or even likely, path to palestinian liberation.

to turn the question around though: why should the palestinian people trust a zionist state? you know, the zionist state that is, currently, slaughtering palestinian people en masse?

again, you're expecting us to weigh hypothetical violence more heavily than the actual, real, currently occurring violence going on right now. but even the most lurid hypotheticals you might propose about what violence might occur if the apartheid system in israel were to be dismantled are dwarfed by the actual violence we see occurring right now.

no cause some of the shit y'all are saying has me genuinely worried that you don't understand the difference between immigration and SETTLER COLONIALISM. y'all do realize that if jewish people just mass migrated to palestine and lived peacefully among palestinians as neighbors and countrymen, then none of this would be a problem. right? you get that, right? you get that our issue was never "there's too many jews here" but rather "why am i getting kicked out of my house." RIGHT?

[canmom]

It's set in a Germanic-based country ran by an authoritarian military that actively corrals and abuses a Jewish-coded minority group because they're viewed as monstrous threats to society. And that is JUSTIFIED in the author's opinion and in the eyes of the narrative. It is DIRECTLY antisemitic and specifically based in the kind of genocidal antisemitism the nazis embodied. You don't get to "I don't think it's nazis though:/" that.

presumably in relation to my comments on Attack on Titan in this post.

I admit I’ve had a hard time knowing how best to respond to this message. let’s say, I guess, that I had a similar impression of Attack on Titan prior to watching it. I changed my mind after seeing it. but I realise ‘not actually Nazi propaganda’ may be a tough sell for something with this much suspicion on it.

your tone seems like you think I’m some kind of diehard Attack on Titan fan who wishes to resolve cognitive dissonance by denying the fact that it is very obviously drawing on the history of the Nazis, the Holocaust, and global antisemitism in general in both its imagery and many elements of its narrative. so if it wasn’t clear enough from the previous post, I don’t give a shit about fandom. I don’t care if you love or hate it. I think Attack on Titan is fascinating and worthy of critical analysis, but that’s as much for its flaws as its successes. and for that reason I am trying to understand what makes it tick.

all the same, my reaction would be quite different if I believed the narrative really did try to justify the genocide and other atrocities it portrays.

so if you’re willing, let me present my reading of Attack on Titan; what I think it’s trying to do. I’m not trying to persuade you to enjoy it, but I would like to explain why I think ‘Nazi propaganda’ is not a justified reading, and - whatever the flaws in execution - I believe Isayama’s intentions must have been something else. in short, it’s very much about fascism, but I believe can very reasonably be read as an - forgive me - attack on fascism: an illustration of why people may fall to fascism, the horrific consequences, and perhaps how one might turn away from it.

so. just to clarify the premise a bit: the thrust of Attack on Titan’s later arcs is about how the “Eldians” (the ‘Jewish-coded minority group’ who comprise nearly every named character) try to deal with living in a world where nearly everyone hates and wants to kill them.

the majority of them live (at first, unknowingly) on an autarkic island-state where the whole population is Eldian, but later we learn how other Eldians, including the antagonists of the earlier parts of the story, live in ghettos within the neighbouring “Marleyan” empire and fight on its behalf in return for conditional privileges.

as far as justification, to address this at the start: we learn the Marleyan narrative backing the oppression of Eldians is to claim that all of this is a form of punishment for the abuses of the defeated Eldian empire. now, I think it is a misstep for there to be a concrete reason why people hate the Eldians (history shows that people have never needed a reason) - but as far as whether the narrative bears this out, it’s unequivocal that the alleged sins of this past Eldian empire are just a flimsy and irrelevant excuse for what the Marleyans are doing to them in the present.

nevertheless, this recent empire which is accused specifically of ‘eugenics and ethnic cleansing’ is part of why I think Japanese nationalism, and the concept of guilt over the atrocities of your country, is part of the pot here. I would argue that Isayama’s “Eldians” are not just an allegory for Jews, nor just an allegory for the Japanese. they are constructed out of elements of all of these - and even the Germans as well! it is Eldians who wear those iconic brown cropped uniforms that appear in all the marketing for the show, and it is only quite late in the story that we learn the main characters are ‘Eldians’ and not just the only surviving humans.

still, this does mean Isayama’s story approaches the history and imagery of Nazism, which is already dangerous enough, and also takes a run at the history of Japanese imperialism (hence the first major controversy being with Korean readers). ‘reckless’ would be an understatement, and it’s not really a surprise that it got such a bad reputation.

so, watching Attack on Titan, @mogsk and I were constantly asking each other what is this about?? what is it trying to say? often it’s hard to tell! but I think as we watched a picture emerged.

the major thrust of the final section of Attack on Titan, the part covered in Mappa’s anime rather than Wit Studio’s, revolves around the conflict between two brothers who both represent cartoonishly extreme possible responses for the Eldians. Zeke represents a sort of negative-utilitarian ‘lie down and die’ attitude: he believes that the lot of the Eldians is so irrevocably hopeless that it’s better not to exist at all than just to suffer. his plan for a sort of ethnic suicide calls to mind Gandhi’s infamous remark that the Jews should have willingly gone to the ovens rather than fight the Nazis. (in reality, if it needs saying, Jews resisted extermination fiercely in many different ways, even when the fight was absolutely futile).

meanwhile, Eren, who was previously the protagonist, develops his shōnen protagonist attitude - “if you don’t fight, you cannot win” - into such an extreme ‘us or them’ stance that “the whole world is his enemy”. he comes to believe everyone outside his home island must be destroyed in what we could call this story’s equivalent of a nuclear war: sending a bunch of huge guys to crush everything flat. (despite the dedicated efforts of the animators, in practice this can’t help but come across as very silly, especially when it’s given the hilarious name of ‘the Rumbling’, but whatever, it’s a fantasy story.)

as argued in this article (an article which points at a lot of things but doesn’t really develop them very far, though broadly seems to agree with me that the thrust of Attack on Titan‘s approach to far right ideology is a critical one), Eren’s worldview calls to mind the Nazi jurist Carl Schmitt’s idea of enmity - two incompatible existences where one must eventually be annihilated, and politics as the field of this conflict. in this framing, if you accept Eren’s belief that fighting to the death is inevitable, his conclusion - get them before they get you - follows.

so after the timeskip, Eren goes from being a hot-headed shōnen protagonist to a sort of Yukio Mishima-like figure, a quiet man at odds with the world due to an extreme nationalist ideology, who carries out an act of terrorism in attempt to provoke others to follow his lead. (there’s more to the Mishima link I want to develop, like I think the obsession with sacrifice can also be read in relation to him, but I’ll leave that for the more full treatment.) unlike Mishima, Eren largely succeeds and gets what he wants. (perhaps, rather than Mishima, we might think of the Nazis and the Beer Hall Putsch - like Hitler, Eren turns his imprisonment to his advantage.)

over the course of the season, Eren defeats Zeke and starts putting his plan into motion, becoming the primary antagonist who the other main characters now work to oppose. (their reasons vary: for some their family will be destroyed by Eren, while for island Eldians like Hange, it is explicitly that ‘there is no excuse for genocide’). Eren is supported by the Jaeger-ha faction led by the fanatical Floch, who are unequivocally presented as full-on fascists: a bunch of violent young men throwing their weight around with summary executions and torture in the conviction they’re going to make a new order under Eren. even though many of the Jaeger-ha are former comrades, the sympathetic surviving members of the Survey Corps such as Armin and Mikasa reluctantly commit to fighting and ultimately killing them in order to try to pursue Eren.

the alternative presented to these ridiculous grand schemes is perhaps a familiar set of anti-war story beats you might recognise from works like Gundam: characters from opposing sides spend time among their enemies, realise they are not so different from the Other, and talk to each other to put an end to the cyclic conflict and work towards a common cause (namely, stopping Eren). there are some really juicy dramatic scenes when the former enemies have it out and confront each other with all of their crimes - and try to understand what brought them about.

to set this arc up, we spend a lot of time not so much with Marleyans themselves, but with the Eldians who live in ghettos as hypersurveilled second-class citizens to the Marleyans, showing how their actions arose from their oppressive circumstances. these characters signify a number of possible responses, from eager complicity with the oppressor to conspiring against them according to various ideological lines, but most just trying to live out their lives in a deeply unfair scenario, upholding the few personal relationships they have.

by the point they’re all actually fighting, it’s become very ambiguous who we’re expected to root for. I think this is the point. this story is not about a heroic struggle for survival, it was all along about a stupid and needless bloodbath that grows to consume more and more and more.

a key moment, to me, comes in the final episode to date, which is mostly an extended flashback to the first time the island Eldians - our main characters, the Survey Corps - set foot in the wider world. they bear witness to acts of anti-Eldian prejudice, and later end up spending joyful evening drinking with a group of heavily Turkish-coded characters on the outskirts of the city. in the context, this happy moment is presented in a rather forlorn way: a peaceful ‘what could have been’ if everyone hadn’t been fucked up by empire, complicity, trauma etc. at the end of this episode, we return to the present and see Eren’s plan going into motion.

moments like this to me signify what Attack on Titan ultimately considers valuable: a positive encounter of different cultures. the times things go well for the characters are when they approach the Other honestly and openly; the times it goes poorly are when they close themselves off and refuse to let go of prejudice, and what tends to rescue this sort of situation is a character responding to this with forgiveness. (the arc of the two children from the ghetto, Gabi and Falco, and their meeting with Sasha’s family may be the most direct example of this.)

the same observation goes for the role of characters like Onyankopon (the story’s one Black character, a soldier recruited from a country annexed by the Marleyans, who defects to support the Eldians and is portrayed very sympathetically, at worst a little naive) and the characters from Hizuru (the setting’s Japan analogue, who arrive to make diplomatic overtures and propose an awful plan for how, with their technology, the Eldians can defend themselves in their new geopolitical context). although these are minor characters, the show puts a lot of work into building up their relationships with the island Eldians as part of a broader arc of being forced out of their ignorant, parochial worldview.

I am waiting for the anime to cover it to see the ending. it would surprise me a lot if Eren was not stopped (it would be quite a shaggy dog story otherwise), but I don’t ultimately know what the thematic answer is going to be. ultimately the challenge that Attack on Titan has set for itself is in showing not just the defeat of Eren as an individual, but showing that his entire belief system is wrong. having called it into question, it must provide a convincing account that coexistence between Eldians and everyone else is possible, and conflicts as entrenched as this one can be resolved peacefully rather than by annihilation.

in other words, the story has provided many convincing illustrations of why someone might fall prey to a fascist ideology, and many examples of that going badly for them, but ultimately it hinges on showing the limits of “if you don’t fight, you cannot win”.

so, let’s return to the question of whether it’s antisemitic.

intentionally? i don’t think so at all; the sympathies are overwhelmingly for the Eldians. I don’t think you could possibly read or watch this and come away thinking the author sees the Holocaust with anything other than absolute horror and revulsion.

unwittingly, through carelessness towards historical trauma? honestly, god that’s a hard one. were a Jewish author writing this story, many of the moves it makes would make plenty of sense to me; I’d have plenty of praise for it. but Hajime Isayama is not Jewish; this is not ‘his’ history and the context where he chose to tell his story is a popular shōnen manga that’s mostly about action - the nuances he’s trying to get at are unlikely to be appreciated by a lot of his audience, and it’s easy for people to latch on to the militaristic imagery and sympathise with what he seems to be trying to attack. (I am reminded of when The Man in the High Castle was adapted for television and the marketers decided to plaster every advertising surface in Nazi symbols. at that point it doesn’t matter how well the work in question criticises the Nazis, the damage has been done. Attack on Titan isn’t nearly that bad, but, yeah...)

certainly if I write a story about war and genocide, I try to avoid directly invoking the images of a specific genocide, but instead attempt to construct more of a layer of abstraction. (it is a difficult line to walk, since fiction should address the most horrible aspects of the world. too much timidity strips you of the ability to say anything at all.)

yet at the same time, it is precisely that reckless charge into the worst episodes of history that makes Attack on Titan so fascinating to drill into. it is not content to just be another action/horror shōnen with a series of escalating fights, but trying for something - to me that something seems to be some kind of grand story about the nature of conflict and the world and the forces behind fascism and nationalism. there is some sort of animating force at work here - Hajime Isayama was wrestling with something in the pages of this manga.

now, I don’t think Attack on Titan has any insight to offer on the Holocaust, if it is read as a historical allegory. the fact that the Eldians can turn into Titans and nobody else can - a fundamental difference between Eldians and everyone else - means we’re already far into the realm of fantasy with no real historical analogue.

in real genocides, it is vital to recognise that the first task of the perpetrator has always been to construct the difference between the two groups and make some minor difference salient: to convince some subset of the population who had been living alongside another to see themselves as an ‘us’ and the latter group as a ‘them’. and while Attack on Titan does show examples of anti-Eldian prejudice falling at random on people who are not Eldian but merely suspected by an angry crowd, the existence of that ‘real’ difference does change the scenario. all the other fantastical elements, like shared memories and even time travel, go even further to take it away from a historical model.

one particular case where it’s hard to figure out what Attack on Titan is doing is the matter of conspiracy theories. we learn at one point that the Eldian empire actually orchestrated their own downfall as a way to end the war, after which point a specific Eldian family actually secretly manipulated the Marleyan empire for the ensuing hundred years! yet this is no unified Eldian conspiracy; it all comes as news to all the other Eldian characters too, and very soon after revealing this, the manipulator character is killed off by Eren, the hardcore Eldian nationalist.

so like, god, what? this makes absolutely no sense as some sort of narrative about historical antisemitism. like, it’s not anything: it’s neither saying ‘look, antisemitic conspiracy theories are true’ because it’s not like the conspirators are secretly orchestrating things to Eldian benefit; rather it’s as if the ruling class threw their entire people away to the ghettos. yet nor is it ‘the conspiracy theories are a paranoid fantasy’: there actually is an Eldian pulling at least some of the strings. so the only frame it even sort-of makes sense is part of the show’s larger discourse on violence, pacifism and relating to the Other. yet it’s incredibly fraught to bring into a story that’s in part about the Holocaust!

why do that? I can’t even explain it.

and that’s definitely one of the most strained episodes in the whole story - not that things are ever especially grounded, but the idea of a guy putting on a stage show in a ghetto to reveal that he’s been pulling the strings only to ask for assistance in the genocide of his own people is just... bwuh? what is that? it is, throughout, very much manga storytelling: the characters are larger-than-life, and its image of war, however full of futility, is still one with room for considerable sentimentality.

all this is why ultimately I read Attack on Titan as being not so much a direct analogy, but a kind of attempt to drill into the emotional/ideological underpinning of fascism. the Titans are at first presented in a way that reflects the Nazis’ construction of their enemies as monstrous: distended proportions, mindless cannibals, natural features of the human body exaggerated to become a source of disgust, yet all curiously desexualised. at the outset of the story it is a case of heroic humans against monstrous enemy in a war of total annihilation.

gradually this story is revealed to be a complete delusion: the humans are not the last survivors at all but an ignorant bubble in a much wider world, and these Titans are of the same category as the ‘humans’, victims of a sadistic punishment by another human society. ultimately the villain is perhaps imperialism itself, whether under the hands of the warlord who created the Eldian people through enslavement and forced his enslaved wife to become the first Titan, or the rule of the Marleyans who one day came to replace them. the common people of both sides such as Sasha’s family, when they get to speak directly, figure out they are much the same as each other. they do not, in general, want to fight.

but despite everyone around him rapidly maturing, Eren is unable to let go of the proto-fascist worldview of his childhood, and he grows his category of ‘enemy’ larger and larger. for everyone else, despite their best efforts, more and more atrocities get added to the ledger as realpolitik takes hold and they act to defend whoever they define as their friends.

so the story unfolds as a tragedy: on a very simple level it could be read as saying, “this is why nationalism/fascism can seem appealing, but look, this is what happens if you don’t let go of it.” and alongside that it is perhaps trying to paint a path away, a story of characters unlearning nationalism. but at the same time often it seems to be merely observing the tragedy of such a world, taking after Schopenhauer, as that article from earlier argues.

so.

is that sort of project worth invoking the imagery of the Holocaust - a sudden flashback to children in what is evidently a close analogue to the Warsaw Ghetto? it’s not that it’s irrelevant, and indeed it may be better to directly confront that subject than to engage in Nazi military imagery without it ever coming up (c.f. many other shows that use it like Girl und Panzer etc.) yet even after all this, I don’t know! I feel like I could make a case for either stance.

ultimately, I don’t think there has to be a party line on Attack on Titan. if you find it hard to stomach regardless, I don’t blame you. people respond to works of fiction in many different ways.

at some point - probably when it’s actually ended in anime form - I still plan to write a more thorough analysis of Attack on Titan‘s thematic development. I don’t think I’ll be able to provide a definitive ‘yay or nay’ answer. it will always be a ‘challenging’ work and not one I’d recommend lightly. but I do at least think it’s worth the time I’ve spent engaging with it so far, and I hope you can see why, whatever the fuck it is, I at least don’t think it’s a work of Nazi propaganda.

[inqilabi]

So you think Islamic terrorism will just disappear if Israel is defeated? And what exactly do you believe will happen to Jews in that case? Where can they flee? Neighbouring Middle Eastern countries? Many Israelis came to Israel from many of those as refugees because of antisemitism.

But I guess everyone is entitled to an ethnostate except the Jews who have been persecuted in every corner of the world.

What “terrorism” are you referring to? The same way Mandela was on a terrorist list & ANC was considered a terrorist organization? I’m sure you’d agree now that he wasn’t a “terrorist” & ANC was an organization for liberation as the general public consciousness does now. Which is the typical consciousness of liberals, who espouse a concern for humanity- an empty consciousness which recognizes truths after the fact. The point is to stand on the right side of history before the fact, when it matters.

Who is talking about Jews fleeing? Ending the occupation of Palestine by abolishing the state of Israel does not mean Jews are expelled???? There would be reparations of course. Like that recent Brooklyn Jewish man who came to settle in Sheikh Jarrah, to occupy the home of a Palestinian who had the house for generations. Yes he’d have to vacate the house. For the rest of the people, how reparations will be done is to be decided by the people & newly formed gov. And Israelis would have to be re-educated out of the Zionist mentality from the years of propaganda & settler colonial history. People forget that Muslims, Jews & Christians did live together in relative peace at some time for some time. It wasn’t until the Balfour Declaration (which was the 1st declaration of war) did Arabs start to revolt (rightfully) & these revolts is where the typical Zionist depiction of Arabs as bloodthirsty for war with Jews out of hatred comes from. And today Arabs are branded as terrorists.

Jewish Palestinians themselves were against Zionist colonizers, thought of them as European in character & eventually fought them too alongside non-Jewish Palestinians. Especially since Zionist terrorists (Irgun, Stern Gang, Haganah) then started murdering & raping everyone to create the nation of Israel. These groups are what then formed IDF and probably Mossad. And Mossad may have been responsible for the Baghdad bombings to get Iraqi Jews to settle in Israel, though Israel denies this. But was admittedly responsible for Lavon affair sooo. All that to say that the creation of Israel was a violent one that ethnically cleansed indigenous Palestinians, and continues to do so.

[uglyfruit]

ok ok as a muslim who has been keeping track of the palestine situation for basically as long as ive lived i want to speak on a few things that the anon is saying. first of all you can quit the cutesy bullshit going "omg ah oki i didnt know uwu!" when youre trying to spread misinformation involving the ethnic cleansing and genocide of an entire people. this is not one of your online discourses about conjectural garbage that has no carryover to the real world. israeli citizens ACTIVELY benefit from the colonization occuring because guess who lives on those colonized lands??? ISRAELIS. and for your information, on """jerusalem day""" which is basically a reverse independence day where israelis celebrate the day that jerusalem was taken over (yeah let that sink in. they are celebrating them conquering a land.) they demanded to be let into al aqsa mosque, which is the third holiest site in islam. so much so that they VIOLENTLY protested to enter and were shaking the doors to the building down that the israeli "defense" forces (which should be renamed because they are not defending anything but an illegitimate state, are the tools used to seize more land unlawfully, murder innocent men women and children, and are AGGRESSORS, NOT defenders) had to prevent them from entering because they knew a fight would ensue, which by the way, their treatment of the israeli """""extremists""""" as you would call them was millions of times more restrained, no tear bombs, no gas canisters, no rubber bullets, no chemical warfare - all which have been used against palestinians in the past. Furthermore, israeli "citizens" are what have incited the last events, because these israeli CITIZENS are the ones who have been illegally breaking into palestinian homes and evicting them with no legal claim. its these israeli CITIZENS that support netanyahu and his draconian policies. its these israeli CITIZENS that continue to enable the violence against palestine and its rightful people. you can build a palace with words. israelis may claim to be against the violence, and yet they remain on palestinian soil benefitting off of palestines resources and continue to say empty promises. if you truly supported palestine you would GET OFF THE LAND! IT DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU! PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN LIVING IN PALESTINE LONG BEFORE YOU COLONIZERS CAME AND WILL CONTINUE LIVING THERE LONG AFTER YOU LEAVE. and i can already hear the antisemitism crocodile tears. palestine has had a population of jews long before israel was instated and all were coexisting peacefully. maybe if israel used the 3.8 billion dolllars worth of U.S funding on moving their citizens who "dont want to hurt palestinians" to other countries and OFF palestinian soil instead of spending it on bombing children and hospitals, maybe THEN i'll believe that israeli citizens dont want violence. because the only form of nonviolence that they condone is palestine simply laying its weapons down and not resisting as the remaining lands are taken from their rightful owners. fuck your nonviolence, palestine WILL be free and fuck israel you colonizers. you are MONSTERS, there is no 2 ways about it. get out.

.

[gavrielabrahams]

I wanted to comment on a post about Jewish population numbers without gumming up the post itself.

I'm thinking about my exposure to the three Jewish communities I've been a part of, my hometown, my college town, and where I live now.

Part of the reason our numbers aren't back up to Pre-shoah is because we're still losing lots of members to secularism. Lots of people choose to blame intermarriage, but in my opinion that's horseshit. When Jews marry outside of the tribe, they're faced with the ultimate choice, "do we raise the kids Jewish or not?" People who have a strong connection the Jewish community are going to raise their kids Jewish, with or without a Jewish spouse and those that done will not. Our local Reform congregation has so many "interfaith" families that still SHOW UP for the community (in this case I put interfaith in quotations because they're really not interfaith. They are Jewish families with one parent who doesn't identify as Jewish).

The reality is that we're losing a lot of our numbers simply because we're not doing enough. We need to do more CULTURAL outreach. We need to put more emphasis on community. In college, every holiday had full day celebrations. Think of secular holidays, especially when you were a kid. Halloween wasn't just the three hours you spent trick or treating, it was a build up, it was an all day affair at school, with a costume parade and themed activities.

Why then does my local community have one pizza party during Sukkot and nothing else? Hell, we don't even celebrate Simchat Torah here, can you believe that?!?! Simchat Torah is basically Fall Purim without costumes.

I dunno, I guess what bothers me is that it feels like we're still suffering ethnic cleansing but instead of genocide it's just slow assimilation. The world around us is making it easier for us to just give up, give in, go quietly into the night. I'm not afraid my kids won't choose to stay Jewish, I'm afraid my great-grandkids won't. I'm afraid that after I'm dead the branch I added to our tribe will fizzle out and move on.