#because THAT was a version of an SPN finale that would have worked

[norahastuff]

There’s a lot to like about The Winchesters, but I think one of the reasons it hits so hard for me is that it solves my biggest problem with the finale. Personally, I don’t have a problem with tragic endings. The season 5 finale of Spn has a tragic ending, and I think it’s a wonderful feat of storytelling. Aside from the fact that 15x20 tried to pretend it wasn’t tragic and tried to make it seem like Sam and Dean standing alone on a bridge in Heaven was a happy ending, what I hated most about the finale was they had to flatten Dean into a two-dimensional caricature of himself to do it. Aside from maybe the revelation that Dean stood outside Sam’s apartment at Stanford for hours trying to psych himself up to go in because he was nervous Sam would turn him away, there was no moment in the episode that Dean felt like the complex, nuanced character we had come to know and love over the past 15 seasons. He had no desires or characterisation beyond pie, car and Sammy. There was no sign of all the growth we’ve seen from him, no hint of his own needs, wants or sense of self. I mean, he wasn’t even allowed to interact with his own heaven before Sam showed up. Even after his death, he was never allowed to have anything that was just his. 

Look, I’ve said all this a hundred times before – if you look at my 15x20 tag, it’s basically just this sentiment repeated over and over again – so why am I saying it again now? Well, because The Winchesters is fixing that. The mission Dean is on is all his. It’s not about Sam, or pie or whatever surface level bullshit that finale tried to boil Dean down to. He’s going back to the past, he’s meddling in something insane because he sees value in it, and in the process going on a journey to understand himself better. His narration makes it pretty clear that through this quest he’s learning to contextualise his own life and feelings better. The past presents the future, after all (full disclosure, that’s an Ugly Betty episode title that I just really loved and use far too often in casual conversation), and one of the biggest hang ups in Dean’s life was that he was given this mythologised version of events and expected to believe them. Mary was this perfect saintly mother who sat at home baking cookies all day before she was brutally, and through no fault of her own, ripped away from them. John was the perfect mild-mannered husband and father who only slid into anger and obsession after he lost his perfect wife. 

Eventually Dean realises that none of that is true. Mary couldn’t cook. She was a hunter. She was involved in the circumstances that brought about her own death. She was a complicated person, and in the end he got the chance to see that knowing the real her, flaws and all, was infinitely superior to believing the white-washed fairytale about the perfect martyr that John created after she died. There’s also the fact that John was never the perfect husband or father, even before Mary’s death. We get maybe one reference to that in Spn, how in Dean’s heaven in season 5 he remembers John and Mary fighting and John moving out for a few days, but not much else. The focus is very much on how John turned into a neglectful parent and an angry man after Mary’s death. But The Winchesters is working hard to dispel that lie. John always had this anger in him. Mary even calls him out multiple times on how he’s using her and their relationship as an excuse to avoid his issues. She straight up uses those words. There are also references to how raising your kids to be soldiers and being their drill sergeant rather than their parent is one of the worst things a parent can do to their child. 

Anyway, as interesting as it is to see all these things addressed in the Spn universe, what’s so damn satisfying is seeing Dean realise it. Dean’s on a mission to learn more about his past. To understand that our parents and where we come from shapes and moulds the people we become, but it doesn’t have to define us forever if we don’t let it. By accepting his past and finding out the truth about who his parents truly were, he can accept himself and move forward, free of whatever baggage that had been dragging him down for so much of his life.

And the greatest part about all of this, is that Dean’s the one driving this story. It’s not God, or his father or even his duty to take care of Sam which dictated so much of his life and his choices before. This is about Dean’s choices and who he is as a person and what he wants. It’s funny because as little as we saw John Winchester in season 1 of Spn, he was very much the spectre hanging over the story, and the search to find him is what drove much of the plot throughout the season. Much of what his sons were doing was in reaction to him. And now in The Winchesters, Dean himself is the spectre that’s been hanging over the season. He’s the one making the big moves and steering the action. He’s the one everyone, friend and foe alike, is looking for. He’s the one who gave John the note and put this whole thing into motion. After the ending of Spn took away so much of his agency and everything that makes Dean Dean, he’s finally getting it back and then some.

I’m excited to see how the season’s going to end, but I’ll forever be happy that this show gave us Dean being his own person again. He’s the one picking the music this time.

[lol-jackles]

I agree with your opinions for the most part. But there are still some points of contradiction. For example, if Jared left the show, the spn wouldn't last much without him. If you exclude the bias towards Jensen and Misha, with a proper plot, the series could very well exist. Like making a move with Sam finally finding peace, leaving hunting and starting a family. Dean is happy for him and continues to do what he loves and knows well - hunt monsters and protect people and that includes Sam and his new family. Just if you take the concept that Sam(Jared) is the main character and the story is about him and Dean(Jensen) is secondary and the story can't be without a main character, then what about The Big Bang Theory series? Obviously Leonard is the main character and Sheldon is secondary. But when James Parsons wanted to leave the show(several times) it wasn't allowed? Why? Sheldon is not the main character, neither is Dean, BUT they are both audience favorites. Suppose if the situation was the other way around and Jensen was the one who wanted to leave the spn, the show wouldn't make sense either? Just based on your logic, the main character leaving is a failure for the show. That said, the departure of the same James Parsons would be a big blow to the show. His character even got his own series in the end. Maybe that's what Jensen wanted. And then I don't understand why he didn't just do a series about John when Meri died and he was left alone with kids and monsters. That would have been so much more interesting!

I think I may be misinterpreting "bias towards Jensen and Misha", as in my bias or the show's bias? If the latter then put down that non-canon-compliant fanfiction and slowly step away.

The Big Bang Theory worked with Leonard as the lead until he and Penny got married, which ideally was when the show should have ended because the show started with him pining after Penny. But the show continued for 2 more seasons with the focused moved to Sheldon & Amy and it was very noticeable that the original magic was gone and the show was cancelled shortly after. The ratings in viewership and demo for the last 2 seasons were steadily going down.

I've said many times here that when shows lose their leads, they are either cancelled or limp along for 1 or 2 more seasons (X Files, The Office, Scrubs, 70's show, The OC) but then fans and critics complain that the show got way worse. So even though The Big Bang Theory still had their lead Leonard on the show, moving the focus to Sheldon & Amy still resulted in the show's cancellation 2 years later.

Moving SPN's focus from Sam to Dean & Cas would have had the same result, cancellation in one or two seasons. So the "proper plot" you speak off wouldn't save a Sam-less show. WB knew that and that's why they cancelled Supernatural.

If it was Jensen who left SPN back in season 3 or 4, the show still would have continued to season 5 to reach syndication. During that time the role of Sam's new partner would have been casted and if he or she worked well enough with Jared, then the show could have continued after season 5. Shows that lost their main secondary character have successfully continued for several more seasons: Monk, Cheers, Greys Anatomy, Law&Order:SUV, and of course Walker. NYPD Blues' Andy famously went through 4 partners in 12 seasons, each partner just as popular as the last.

I agree that the Supernatural prequel should have been about a widowed John and wee Sam and Dean. That was Michael Rosenbaum’s immediate assumption on his podcast interview with Jensen. He missed a real opportunity for a young Sam and Dean prequel because nostalgia for the 80s is at an all time high. It could have been his version of Stranger Things as wee Sam and Dean explore the strange and the supernatural, like Sam’s imaginary friend Sully and we get to know more about the Zannas, the only supernatural creatures without agendas against mankind.

[destiel-wings]

Did I miss Misha originally say Cas’s confession was platonic?

I don't think Misha ever said that. For as much as i know he was on the main team with Bobo Berens to actively fight to have the confession happen, so he definitely never thought it was platonic. He's always been quite vocal about how non platonic it was actually, like when in Italy the "I love you" was dubbed with the platonic version of it, "ti voglio bene" (instead of "ti amo", which is the romantic equivalent) he posted a video to criticize that embarrassing decision.

I think there's been a moment, right after the first spn conventions after the finale, when the first fan questions about the confession happened and extremely embarrassing replies were given by certain actors (I'm talking about the infamous reply that Jared gave to a fan asking about it), Misha got really upset (not at Jared, i mean, in general, because apparently even after the confession canonically happened IN THE SHOW, they still weren't allowed to talk about it, or about destiel as an actual thing), and so he may have been quite frustrated for a while, not expressing himself quite as strongly ad he did at first.

But I'm seeing the latest few cons that happened, mainly the latest two jibs, and all the amazing jenmish content we got in their panels together, and how slightly easier it's become for them to talk about it... i mean Jensen and Misha wrote a destiel song on the spot a week ago at the jib11, and Jensen said he would love to see the confession being adressed "maybe we will get to see that soon" and I'm being more hopeful.

And so Misha has been quite more at ease bringing it up again too, like this is another reply he gave last week at jib11:

The thing about destiel is, I think the people in power never wanted it to happen because they thought they would lose viewers and thus, money, tainting the franchise. I think most of the writers tried to slip it in anyway, through the subtext, and they were always allowed it to a certain extent because it worked, and it placed the show in a certain limbo where destiel was basically Schrodinger's cat. It was there and wasn't at the same time. The confession was fought for and i think the peole who cared about it did whatever they could, but still, they couldn't get a complete win since the ones in charge still refused to let Dean reciprocate. So that must've been extremely frustrating for Misha too, because he's one of the ones that really cared for it, and understood just how meaningful it was to many people, and the power it had, and it might have had if brough to completion.

I think Jensen went on board too, somewhere along the way, and he changed his mind for the better. Like, i still think that to him, Dean is probably straight, but he's been way more open recently (ever since the confession, and probably during season 15 too, since the moment he knew the story was going to lead there) and probably after seeing the impact it had, the fandom's reaction to it and the finale, he probably understood just how much it would mean to so many people. So even though he may definitely have a preference for Dean being straight IF THE NETWORK ALLOWED IT i really don't think he would be against a canonically bi Dean. Not anymore. I think he might actually go for it. For the fans.

And i think he's had talks with Misha about it.

But what i mostly mean when I say "it's become slightly easier for them to talk about it" is they have more room to do it, because either their NDAs are about to expire or Jensen buying the rights to the story gives him more power to disclose things and talk more freely. Please take all these words with a grain of salt because i don't work in the industry and these are just my personal speculations, but i think the main problem and cause of frustration with talking about destiel publicly for any of the actors has always been contractual. The show didn't officially take a position (denying Dean the reciprocation) and so all the public statements and opinions of the actors needed to contractually adhere to the "company line" (which i think may *only partially* explain Jared's infamous rant, as a horrendously clumsy attempt to avoid confirmation of destiel - note that I'm not justifying it).

Of course, the enraging thing is that while Dean's reciprocation is canonically up to discussion and subject to interpretation, Castiel's is not. So Misha has always been one of the few to be freer to talk about that specific moment, because Castiel's journey took a clearer stand.

But even that has been buried or blurred down to "interpretation" very often by others, taking another time a huge step back, to favor the colossal hiding of destiel and not risk a blatant confirmation from the show, officially, on both sides. So if Misha ever said anything about it being platonic (which i don't think he did), he was probably just ranting it out in extreme frustration or reciting it as a company line to survive from the snipers of the CW (just as the rest of the actors).

***

That's how i see it anyway. Sorry i went a little overboard with my reply, and brought up Jensen in the discourse too, but hopefully that answers it! :)

[july-19th-club]

Fic writer interview

@goingsparebutwithprecision tagged me in this one and then i had it in my drafts for six or eight months so now it is out of the drafts and into the queue

How many works do you have on AO3? a grand NINE

What's your total AO3 word count? 82,429, which is almost the length of a short novel.

What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

Grace (SPN), Between Friends (Magnus Archives), Yellow Asters (SPN), In the Valley of the Ever Young (Umbrella Academy), and The Steward (Discworld)

I guess i'd hoped Another Journey (The Untamed) would do better - but I'm not at all surprised that my quick and dirty post-finale (by like a DAY) Game of Thrones thing didn't do well. On the other end of the spectrum, my quick and dirty post-finale-by-eleven-hours SPN thing did great it's my top seller. That's 600ish kudos so we're not talking phenomenal, but still. Goes to show I think the difference between how game of thrones fans handled the ending (buried heads in sand, wept and gnashed teeth, rent hair and clothing, ranted for hours on a slow monday worknight shift to me while i listened, horrified and enraptured) versus how spn fans, who never had expectations to gradually and then all at once disappointing, handled the ending (shrug, make some jokes, cry not because it's ending but because it happened, and then crack open the laptops for some quality writing about the whole thing). We were already prepared for things to be bad, so when they were even more bad than all THAT? We were actually, I think, in a way kind of pleased and satisfied. If it had ended well i think it would've been a bit of anticlimax after all that time. Whereas in Game of Thrones there was still the slim chance that they might turn it all around at the eleventh hour, so when they didn't the viewers just wanted to hide and lick their wounds. Produced much less immediate fic.

Do you respond to comments? Why or why not? It really totally depends on the comment and my mood honestly. If it's especially long and glowing I try to give it at least a little bit of attention but it might not be right away.

What’s the fic you’ve written with the angstiest ending? Tie between Another Journey and In the Valley - In the Valley ends RIGHT before a character death in canon, Another Journey ends right after a non-canonical character death. So take your pic. I don't tend to do death for death's sake, but for these two stories it felt cheap to avoid it.

What's the fic you've written with the happiest ending? FINISHED fic? That people can SEE the ending of? Grace, which I now don't like because it's not complex enough and I completely mischaracterized Jack, but that's what Wishes Were Horses is for. Whenever I get around to it. You know.

Do you write crossovers? Not really. I love worldbuilding but trying to marry two disparate worlds is too much for me, I don't like having to do all the logistics. Probably a less pedantic writer would just not care about the logistics but I also don't READ crossovers because the logistics or lack thereof is such an issue for me, so.

Have you ever received hate on a fic? No but back when I was regularly updating Book of Gold (which I'm linking even though I'm probably going to retire that version at some point and start working on a better rewrite) I had a reader who REALLY liked Steve, a character I had no plans to write from the perspective of because I barely remembered him and did not care about him, and still don't really, and that reader would constantly ask me with waning hope if I was gonna do anything Steve related. And I'd avoid saying a definitive no.

Do you write smut? If so, what kind? Prev apparently has some good Cyrano de Bergerac smut which I now want to read. I personally have never posted any sex in fics, but not for lack of hoping someday to tastefully get it all out there. I just was raised catholic so if I say anything sexual where people can see it i get embarrassed.

Have you ever had a fic stolen? I hope not I haven't checked lol but I only have nine and they're not well known so who give a shit

Have you ever had a fic translated? No.

Have you ever co-written a fic before? Nah. When it comes to writing I don't think I could ever split the work I'd want too much control.

What’s your all-time favorite ship? I do not have favorites because the other ones might get sad . this extends to foods, stuffed childhood animals, and books in my reading stack . also fountain pens

What’s a WIP that you want to finish but don’t think you ever will? At this point any of them lkajslkdjfasdf but i really REALLY doubt the immediate future of the Book of Gold, which is a shame because I have all the major beats mapped out in my head. It's just so much more ambitious than even the other long fics I have in my documents files, the scope is years instead of days or months, and it's a lot of planning and prep work that I can't help but feel I should instead spend on either quicker-to-finish stories or original ones.

What are your writing strengths? I think I have a strong voice, a good turn of phrase, that sort of thing. I also think that after years of trying I have gotten good at realistic dialogue that's not TOO realistic as to be unreadable, and I've learned how to be funny. Worldbuilding.

What are your writing weaknesses? Complex plotting, which sucks because I love complex plotting and want to do more of it. Also punctuality, which is not a writing weakness so much as a regular one, and the really big one is character relationships and consistency over time. I struggle to fit all those pieces together/remember whether they fit together when I started. This probably has to do with my social struggles in real life lol it's very hard for me to write characters thinking/believing/philosophizing/reacting differently than I would, at least without falling back into the 'everybody is me' mode that risks them coming off flat. I think my way around this for most of my writing life has been to write from one person's first-person perspective, which helps alleviate that problem, but I'm trying to do different things and expand my skill set/comfort zone.

What are your thoughts on writing dialogue in other languages in a fic? It's cool and I like it but I only know one other language than the one I speak and I speak it at a second grade level. So I don't do this much but I enjoy reading it. Love to copy and paste the language I don't know into a dictionary of words and parse it out it's like a fun secret treat.

What was the first fandom you wrote for? Discworld TECHNICALLY . but really The Outsiders and really really even before that I have an unnamed undescribed thing that I hope to turn into a short story that is almost not at all like the fic. so i will not discuss it

What’s a fandom/ship you haven’t written for yet but want to? Star Trek (I've written for it but haven't finished and posted yet). Perhaps True Blood. I have some ideas.

What’s your favorite fic you’ve written? Again I cant play favorites BUT. It's probably Another Journey. It just came together so easily and the structure fell right into place and I managed to do a lot of stuff that was challenging in a way that felt successful. Book of Gold is next to my heart so close that I'm sure it's not actually GOOD and I don't wanna call it 'favorite' because it's a different thing. It's a sibling.

@whileyoureinschoolidothisallday do you want to do a tag game? and any of the other writing mutuals on here who've plied their hands

[zmediaoutlet]

so i know we just have to accept certain retcons, but the big one that bugs me is yellow eyes's plan for sam and how it doesn't fit with all the vessel stuff. how do YOU make that work in your head?

hallo hallo anon, you have hit on one of the Great Big Bugaboos of spn canon and also the #1 evidence we have to throw in the face all those goofs who uncritically repeat the "Kripke had a 5 year plan!" factoid. He clearly did not, he was flying by the seat of his pants, and while he managed to put stuff together in a fun way the pants are Not Coherent.

Nevertheless, we can make it work, and the way we make it work is that the various members of the angelic and especially demonic hierarchies do not have complete information. Let's do a rough timeline:

In the beginning Chuck created the universe. This is widely regarded as a bad move.

Then, you know, handwaving on him setting up some version of a 'destiny' story arc which will inevitably end in his two sons fighting to the death, via characters he'll create called The Winchesters.

After inventing demons and being a real jerkface, Lucifer ends up in the cage.

In the 70s or whatever, Azazel goes to Ilchester to butcher a bunch of nuns and talk to daddy Lucifer -- Lucifer says "you have to help get Lilith out of her pit so that the seals on my cage can get broken." Azazel says, "But how, Evil Daddy?" Lucifer says, "This really special child." -- HERE IS WHERE THE RETCON APPEARS TO HAVE HAPPENED, BUT WE CAN WORK WITH IT

Sam Winchester is fated in the demonic archives among the true higher-ups, but lower-level demons don't necessarily know about him and his importance.

Azazel starts seeding the earth with special babies. COMPLETE CONJECTURE TO FOLLOW: While he knows that Sam is the one who will be Lucifer's vessel, he also knows that a series of events will need to occur so that Lucifer will get out of the cage to take his vessel in the first place. The first seal is the most important: a righteous man must shed blood in hell. How do we get that to happen? CONJECTURE TWO: I think that Dean must be the Righteous Man because of his place within the tripartite celestial structure: God-Michael-Lucifer mirroring John-Dean-Sam. I do not think that John could have ever actually been the one to 'spill blood' that would allow the first seal to break. (Ethical conjecture three: perhaps it's the weakness itself which has its own kind of righteousness? John's implacable; Dean is not.) CONJECTURE UHH FOUR I GUESS: Azazel is designing an elaborate scheme to ensure that Sam will die on a particular day (maybe bc it works well for opening the door to hell?) specifically to ensure that Dean will sell his soul to bring Sam back, and thereby doom himself to the hell where he will break the first seal.

This should be 6b but tumblr doesn't work this way: now, would it be a hell of a fucking lot easier for Azazel to just ensure Sam dies somehow? Yeah. But given everything we know about him and the dorky-ass demons who hang out in s1 and s2, Azazel is clearly a dramallama and does stuff for the lulz. Plus, I think there's an element of 'proving' to Sam how much destiny has a hold on him, because that is so important for his grooming into saying yes to Lucifer. If he was just hit by a car or something it doesn't have the same effect than if he's part of the emo hunger games.

Sam dies; Dean sells his soul; Sam lives, and wants to save Dean. But of course, he can't save Dean, because Dean *must* go to hell to ensure the first seal is broken. This is why the angels don't help Sam at all, and why Ruby is allowed to run around with impunity. Happily the writer's strike intervened and gave us a miserable fucking s3 finale where that happened, because that is WAY more interesting than Hero Sammy Saving The Day.

Ruby has been getting instructions from Lilith the entire time, presumably since she became a demon herself, and gets launched literally as soon as Azazel is out of the way to continue the Sam-grooming.

CONJECTURE FIVE(?): Azazel and Lilith fucking hated each other, lol. But it's Lilith who's the *actually* important demon, so she wins and Azazel gets sacrificed for being really bad at teaching drama.

It's not actually that complicated, but you do have to take "the special kids were just sacrifices on the altar of let's see what we can get Sam to do" as a given. If Sam had actually started killing all of them, that'd be one thing, and Azazel could have turned that to his favor before maybe having Ava stab Sam in the back regardless. (Then, a Special Kid will go and open the devil's gate for him anyway, so the demons can get out there and start their important seal-breaking prep.) Since Sam was being such a Good Guy -- well, so what, Ava will kill all the rest of them, and then either her or Jake will get turned easy-peasy and kill Sam too. Dean will make his deal either way, and the apocalypse is off with a bang. Or a sick crunching of knife into bone.

Anyway, that's my theory. It fits alongside my ironclad theory that all of history and fate and destiny was leading toward two brothers standing in front of each other in a cemetery, and the only real free will starting once Dean could choose what to do when Sam-as-Lucifer stood in front of him, and what he chose was to be there for his brother. Thereby giving Sam a solid space to grasp and overcome Lucifer, and then save all the days. The Righteous Man who begins it is the only one who can end it, as they say.

[shallowseeker]

Howdy Howdy! Wishing you a fast recovery! Here's something to ponder while you're stuck inside: Are there any villains in spn you wish would have been redeemed? How about any characters you wish would have had a corruption arc? What would you want their redemption/corruption arcs to look like?

Hands-down, I wanna see Bela Talbot. I'd trade an embarrassing number of "golden era" regulars to see her come back and get the "demon Dean" treatment (i.e. having moral grayness around the "work/cases" Hell assigns to her).

Like other demon characters, having her work through her own corruption/toxicity/bitterness/despair would be great. The consequences of her survivorship would be Chef's Kiss for me.

//

Secondly, I wanted to see Andrea Kormos in an extended Purgatory Round II (15x09). She'd make a great mirrored Plot Device for the New Quest (finding the flower/escaping/fighting Lillith etc).

Like Bela, Andrea would work for me personally because she also has to work through her Stockholm Syndrome and corruption. Like Bela, she'd be dealing with the consequences of her survivorship. (I’m sensing I like a theme here…)

For narrative symmetry, of course, she clings to Cas. (I think Cas can be Very Appealing to "ruined/corrupted" characters, especially when he decides to extend his gentle version of non-judgment, so it could really, really work and create Big Emotional Complications). Theme: it's never too late/you can start being good any time.

//

That aside, I think the main three all need to finish their arcs as parents. Especially Sam. For me personally, his final turn was like lukewarm dishwater.

///

As for moral decay/corruption, I'd like to see characters like Eileen Leahy and Charlie Bradbury do a lot more fucking up. (I know Charlie split in the Oz thing and Eileen shot a MoL dude, but I found their mistakes to be generally very "safe.") Same for Lata from The Winchesters.

I'd kill for them to get the Mary Winchester treatment--that is, to be allowed to fuck up as much as The Boys Do.

For Eileen, it'd look like this, I think. I haven't got any good ideas for Charlie, because I find her annoying (I say this with Love now). Lata would naturally have to reckon with her pacifism and hypocrisy.

[ranwing]

So... how much of a clusterfuck was The Winchesters finale?

A massive one, in my humble opinion. This show turned out to be a classic bait and switch. It got sold to the audience as one thing, but with the conclusion turned out to be something else completely.

Let's just start off with the biggest issue - the story of John and Mary and how their love saved the world? Complete bullshit. John and Mary had nothing to do with the final conclusion of the series. They were not even the John and Mary that we grew to know and have deeply conflicted feelings about. They were an alternate version, existing in one of the many alternate universes that Chuck liked to play with. They weren't Sam and Dean's parents and might not ever come to have a Sam and/or Dean of their own.

This is, IMO, exceedingly sloppy writing. We knew from the very start that this was the most likely scenario, as there was no way that TW would fit in with original SPN cannon without massive retcons so this allowed the writers to basically thrown cannon into the shredder because nothing mattered. They could screw around with the mythology and do whatever they wanted because it's an alternate universe. As a writer, this pisses me off because even when writing AUs, there need to be some ground rules to connect with the premise of the original series. This just gave them an out for poor research and sloppy writing.

Which brings us to another major problem. How was there an alternate universe for Dean to play around in when we were told in the final season of SPN that Chuck had destroyed every reality except for the one that our Sam and Dean existed in. Unless Jack went out of his way to create a universe for Dean to jump into, there was no way for this to work with SPN lore. If Jack was now God and could fix all of the damage Chuck had done, why didn't he just deal with the Akrida? Why did Dean need to step in to protect the reality that Sam was currently still living in?

Then we have the biggest issue and that was how Dean was used. Or rather, Jensen since there wasn't a whole lot of Dean there. When the series was first announced and Jared's/Sam's fans were livid that he was being completely excluded from the series (and hadn't even been told that Jensen was ready to move ahead with it before the announcement was made), we were assured that this was all about John and Mary and that Dean would be, at most, a passive narrator. That Jared wasn't deliberately excluded and all would make sense. Well, it did make sense that we were lied to. Whether they realized that trying to make the show about John and Mary just wasn't resonating with the audience and tossing Dean into a more active role was something of a hail Mary, or this was the plan all along, Dean ended up being not just the McGuffin, but the hero of the story. He gets to save the day and all of reality.

This makes it painfully clear that this show wasn't about trying to explore other stories in the SPN universe. This was about Jensen's ego. That he was still upset that his character wasn't the last man standing, even when he admits that narratively it made more sense for Sam to be. This was about giving him the opportunity to be the big solo hero without having to share screen time with Jared. I can't say whether this was what Jensen and CM had originally planned or whether it became necessary to salvage the lackluster storyline, but it turned out to be an empty exercise of hubris and ego.

And I'm sorry, but trying to excuse Sam's erasure by having Dean claim that he was doing this because he had "family" in his own verse (who he couldn't even bring himself to call by name) was a cheap cop out. It doesn't make up for how Jensen and Dannell acted when putting this mess together and how he treated Jared. It was a slap in the face to the majority of the SPN audience, who watched because we loved both the brothers.

If there is any justice in the universe, the network will see this as the failure that it was and that the SPN legacy should never have been put in the hands of an inexperienced production company or when one of the leads is deliberately excluded. TW does not in any way warrant or need a second season and this should been tossed away a the failed experiment that it was.

Sorry Jensen, but you shat the bed. This dumpster fire is all on you.

[spnfanficpond]

New Member Spotlight - March 2024

The Pond is always growing and we want to make our new members feel welcome! Here’s a list of recent additions to our fishy family, along with a little info about them!

Guppies, Jellies, and Mutuals, oh, my!

@samanddean76 -

Other SM names? - Same name on AO3 and Discord

OTP? - Wincest and/or J2.

Looking for in the Pond? - To be around other open-minded and creative people so that I can see how far I can be inspired to go with this writing thing.

Pairings you read? - All of it. I love Wincest, Wincestiel, Sabriel, Destiel, Jammy, and J2.

Genres you read? - Angst, Hurt/Comfort, Fluff, Smut, True Mates, Soul Mates, Unrequited Love, and A/B/O is my favorite way to combine all of the above.

Favorite writer(s)? - nyxocity. She started on LiveJournal with the first episodes to air and transfered a lot to Ao3. Her work in both SPN and SPN RPF is some of the best I've ever read.

What do you like to write? - A/B/O, AU's, Angst, Hurt/Comfort, True Mates, Soul Mates, Revenge, and All The Feels

Masterlist!

Most underappreciated fic? - Joyous Memories Amongst The Sorrow

Something you haven't written but would like to try? Why not? How can we help? - A full on, hard-core revenge story where nothing is softened, the focus doesn't shift away, and there is no doubt as to what was done. Haven't tried it yet as I'm not sure I'm ready to embrace the darkness required to write it. Also, I don't want to scare off my readers. How you can help? Encourage me to finally tackle that next seemingly impossible challenge.

@kayleighwinchester -

Other SM names? - KayleighWinchester (AO3)

OTP? - Awful as it sounds, Dean and my OC! Beyond that, absolutely Destiel.

Other fandoms? - I'm pretty active in the band Ghost's TikTok fandom! I used to be *huge* into Harry Potter, but that's definitely faded in the last few years. As it stands, Supernatural has definitely become the main obsession.

Looking for in the Pond? - I'm mostly here for the community! My fanfic writing has mostly been just for me and shared with a few close friends in the last few years - publishing it anywhere, especially in the really rough state it's in at present, is super daunting! I'm always looking for more people to bounce ideas off of, chat with, and generally obsess over the show with, as well as finding new stuff to read!

Pairings you read? - I'm especially fond of reader inserts, and they were my first big step into fanfic! When it comes to ships, I tend to stick specifically to Destiel, since it's my OTP, but I'm always willing to branch out!

Genres you read? - I love angst! Writing was, for a long time, my free version of therapy, so reading and writing angst was always a huge thing for me. I also love smut and fluff. ...Essentially, everything. Depends on the mood!

Favorite writer(s)? - I always have to boost TinkerbellBleu on Ao3, even though she isn't active anymore. She wrote an amazing DeanxOC fic, essentially turning episodes 1, 2, and part of 3 into full-length novels. I adore her writing and hope she comes back soon!

What do you like to write? - Most are CharacterxOC, and I have absolutely no self-control, so they are almost always ridiculously long. As it stands, I've been incapable of not just writing a fic that is supposed to span the entire show, because there's just *so many* good moments, good scenes, good storylines, etc. There's never one specific 'theme'; I write everything! I do enjoy writing angst, though.

Something you haven't written but would like to try? Why not? How can we help? - Smut! I've made an *attempt*, but never one that I actually kept. Generally, it comes down to a lack of confidence; I'd love some critiques if I ever get around to it!

@whiskeyjuniper -

Other SM names? - Whiskeyjuniper (AO3)

OTP? - DeanCas, Midam, crackship DeanChuck

Looking for in the Pond? - Sprint buddies!

Pairings you read? - DeanCas, Midam, crackship DeanChuck

Genres you read? - Horror

What do you like to write? - Horror, Weird

Masterlist!

Most underappreciated fic? - a happy place to dream about

@bloodydeanwinchester -

Other SM names? - Same name on Discord, alovelyhorror (AO3)

OTP? - Destiel

Looking for in the Pond? - Looking for a place to talk to other writers and participate in sprints.

Pairings you read? - Almost exclusively Destiel

Genres you read? - Angst with a happy ending is my favorite but I also love some good horror. my favorite trope is probably time travel.

Favorite writer(s)? - sobsicles and komodobits on ao3

What do you like to write? - mostly into writing longer destiel canon/canon divergent fics (although i do have an idea or two for aus)

Masterlist!

Most underappreciated fic? - When the Night Is Over

Something you haven't written but would like to try? Why not? How can we help? - The thing I'm most focused on wanting to do now is to finish the longer fic that I’m currently working on. I'm struggling with keeping up motivation now that I'm right in the middle of the fic!

@notanotherthembo -

Other SM names? - Same name on Discord

OTP? - Dean/Cassie

Other fandoms? - TWD, TOWL

Looking for in the Pond? - Beta readers, homies, amazing writers to talk shop with

Pairings you read? - Sam/Femme!Reader, DeanCassie, Sam/Dean/Femme!Reader, Wincest

Genres you read? - Smut, Rivals or Enemies to Lovers,

Favorite writer(s)? - @uncouth-the-fifth is the GOAT

What do you like to write? - Crossovers, specifically ones that feature Black femme characters as the romantic lead

Masterlist!

Most underappreciated fic? - Clap Your Hands If You Believe

Something you haven't written but would like to try? Why not? How can we help? - Reader inserts! I'm working on one right now that I need a beta reader for. I'm also considering finishing up/rewriting an old Spn/True Blood crossover series that I haven't touched in years.

@bigmouthlass -

Other SM names? - darali_starscream (AO3) & Darali (Discord)

OTP? - I write Dean/You, and Dean/Donna should've lived happily ever after.

Looking for in the Pond? - Get a better handle on fandom stuff, meet some other like-minded obsessives.

Pairings you read? - Dean/anyone. He fascinates me.

Genres you read? - Smut to start, anything interesting and well-written.

Favorite writer(s)? - @thoughtslikeaminefield, @sam-is-my-safe-word , @talltalesandbedtimestories, Edge_of_Clairvoyance (AO3), and @rizlowwritessortof

What do you like to write? - They start as smut, and insist on growing plots.

Masterlist!

Most underappreciated fic? - Stairwell Drums

Something you haven't written but would like to try? Why not? How can we help? - I'm trying to get comfortable writing Sam; he's harder for me to feel at ease with. Also slash generally, it doesn't come naturally to me.

That's all for this month, folks! (If we're missing anyone, let us know and we'll add them to next month's list!) Make sure to say hi to the newbies and make them feel welcome! Thanks to all from @manawhaat, @mrswhozeewhatsis, @mariekoukie6661, @thoughtslikeaminefield, @spencereliotwinchester and @heavenssexiestangel!

[silver-stake-through-the-heart]

The thing, about the finale, is that we followed Dean's journey. We saw him slowly accepting and telling what happened in his childhood wasn't fair–

My father was an obsessed bastard! All that crap he dumped on me, about protecting Sam! That was his crap. He's the one who couldn't protect his family. He- He's the one who let Mom die. Who wasn't there for Sam. I always was! He wasn't fair! I didn't deserve what he put on me.

-spn 3x10

And I… I had to be… more than just a brother. I had to be a father and I had to be a mother, to keep him safe. And that wasn't fair. And I couldn't do it.

-spn 12x22

–we saw him trying to overcome how he saw himself–

But what I'm good at… is slicing throats. I ain't a father. I'm a killer. And there's no changing that. I know that now.

-spn 6x06

Come on, man. Can't you see? I'm… I'm poison, Sam. People get close to me, they get killed…or worse.

-spn 9x10

–we saw him telling he wanted out, we saw him thinking about a life after hunting with his found family.

You know, the life I live, the work I do…I pretty much just figured that that was all there was to me, you know? Tear around and jam the key in the ignition and haul ass until I ran out of gas. I guess I just thought sooner or later, I’d go out the same way that I live – pedal to the metal, and that would be it. (…) Now, um… recent events, uh… make me think I might be closer to that than I really thought. And…I don’t know. I mean, you know, there’s – there’s things, there’s…people, feelings that I-I-I want to experience differently than I have before, or maybe even for the first time.

-spn 10x16

Dean: You ever miss life on the road? Mildred: Nah. Nah, I had my fun. You want to know the secret to living a long and happy life? Dean: Actually, yes, I do.

-spn 11x11

Dean: Let me ask you something. You ever regret it, walking away? Lee: Not once.

-spn 15x07

And then… then they kill him. They kill him because of a mistake John made, because he treated Dean more like a weapon than a son. They use an enemy from an episode where John said Once a vampire has your scent, it's for life. but still went You know what to do. and sent Dean being a bait for the vampire.

They literally went all your character growth and your self-acceptance means nothing, you were always the worst version of what you believed yourself to be. You were only daddy's little blunt instrument, you were poison and your very presence was the thing destroying your family and everyone you cared about.

[eisforeidolon]

What is the reason for jenmish fans' constant assertion that J2 friendship is a PR stunt?

I mean, short version is that they've decided Jared Padalecki is personally oppressing them by existing and want everything in the universe to validate their insistence he's a Bad Person that No One Likes. He's totally in the way and if he were to disappear tomorrow, both their RPF and SPN ship fantasies would immediately come true!

As to the RPF, it's about winning the "prize" of Jensen in the stupid shipwar back and forth. It doesn't actually matter if they spend half their time talking about how shitty and homophobic (or whatever) Jensen is, they want him to have chosen their fave over the other guy - as surely anyone would given the choice between stinky Jared and saint Misha! But if you look at the way Jensen and Misha interact versus the way Jensen and Jared interact ... well that's a bit of a problem for anyone with eyes and/or ears plus at least two working brain cells. So J2's friendship has to be a PR stunt for them to win. If you're ITK you can see that J2 actually hate each other but continue to be FORCED TOGETHER AGAINST THEIR WILLS while Misha and Jensen are the REAL BFFs!!! It's true, somebody on tumblr.com told me so!

As to SPN itself, it's tied up in their attempts to "prove" SPN's story was no longer about Sam at all but centered on D/C and everybody knew it and wanted it that way. Which of course means they need someone to blame for why it didn't actually happen, but it can't be Jensen's fault because they need him to act out their fantasies when they eventually get their way. So someone has to be at fault for why Jensen can't tell them how he REALLY feels about D/C and Jared/Sam don't matter anyway. Aha! Jensen must only constantly talk about the brothers as the center of the show just because Jared's always there and he has to appease him (just ignore the inconvenient part where he does that if Jared isn't there, too). Obviously he can't actually LIKE Jared who is such a big bully with a giant ego who can't admit he wasn't part of the REAL story of SPN! If they can just expose the farce of J2's friendship, Jensen and everyone else will surely summarily drop Jared as the irrelevant dead weight he is! Then Jensen can finally do all the joint panels with Misha and make the sequel he actually wants sans Jared that's just six hours of making out with Misha!

TLDR: conspiracy batshit, basically.

[ananke-xiii]

i think you were being facetious about the osiris coffin myth but what do you think about that being called back to in season 14 with the michael coffin plan. im curious what your thoughts on that are.

Hello!

Oh, no I wasn't being facetious (I think you're referring to this post, right?)! As I've said there, this isn't my primary reading of those episodes and I definitely don't think the Osiris myth was planned in advance, not the way I've put it in my post.

But I do know that resurrection is too much of a big theme in s13 to be discarded as a "regular" SPN thing. Specifically, Cas' resurrection spans over 6 episodes (7 if you count his death in s12) where we actually see the steps of his resurrection, so I think it's safe to say that the writers revisited some resurrection myths to come up with ideas (I'm pretty sure every screenwriter has a copy of "The Writer's Journey: Mythic Structure For Writers" at home, which hopefully means they also have a copy of "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" which also means that they have a copy of "The Golden Bough" and Frazer was pretty keen on dying and rising gods).

Now, about the Malak Box which means the Angel Box. I have perhaps too many thoughts about it so I'll try to be brief and only share the most salient points.

The tl;dr version is that I personally think that the meaning of characters who (want to) bury things in the water is two-sided: they want to efface the proof of their actions but they also doom themselves in the process because water is the universal symbol of life, therefore the things we hide in the water won't stay dead and are bound to resurface.

Michael was trapped by Dean in an icebox which was all a big symbolic way to say that Dean trapped Michael deep down his subconscious. What's the most famous symbol connected to the subconscious? Water. So of course the icebox thingy doesn't work because see above: the things we bury in the water will resurface whether we like it or not.

Dean understands that and this is why he builds a box for himself: because he contains Michael in his mind but it's not enough and, since Michael will take control over his mind, Dean thinks that if he puts his own body into a box and hides it deep down the ocean the problem will be solved.

Per its usual, the show removes its characters from making real decisions so we don't know what would have happened if Dean had gone through with his plan. What I personally do know is that Dean's plan was doomed to fail because see above again: water=subconscious=things will resurface.

I also know it wouldn't have worked because previously on Supernatural other things buried deep in the ocean somehow found their way back home: the First Blade in s10 and Lucifer himself in s12.

What do the First Blade, Lucifer and Michael have in common? Well, according to SPN they are evil. So we go back to the idea that evil things can be kept apart if you manage to stuff them deep down the earth/water and far away from civilization. Which, again, doesn't work.

Interestingly, it's usually Michael the one who binds Lucifer to the "Abyss", therefore in SPN we have an inversion of the myth: Dean wants to cast Michael into the ocean while Nick wants to resurrect Lucifer from the Empty. Power to the vessels, yeah! (I think "Damaged Goods" went heavy on the metaphor 'cause we have Dean and the Malak box and Nick and that box thingy where Abraxas was caged).

Now I've written "Abyss" in quote/unquote because abyss, per se, means "bottomless" and it's not exclusively related to waters and oceans but it also very much is. Dean says he wants to bury himself in the Pacific Ocean so, to me, this means the Mariana Trench which might as well be the "personification" of the concept of the abyss.

So we have a very interesting thing here in that Dean is even more Michael-like than Michael himself because he wants to bury the both of them into the abyss. LOL.

Finally, since Malak means "angel" and Dean wants to bury himself in the ocean/Abyss I cannot not think of the "angel of the abyss" found in the Book of Revelation, aka Abaddon/Apollyon.

So we go back to the beginning of my reply: one thing Supernatural is not given enough credit for is that it made full use of both ancient and more modern myths and stories, sometimes not in a respectful way but some other times they were pretty clever with symbolism.

Besides the main characters being conventionally attractive white dudes, the show's success is, imo, due to the fact that it's about this stuff, you know? Once you start playing around with myths you'll always find people willing to listen.

[museaway]

Happy 10th anniversary to my beloved Free! fandom. When I was struck down by a fever in late 2017 and decided to watch the anime, I had no idea the ways the fandom would influence me. So since @rinharumemories is a memory event, I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to finally write a love letter to the fandom! 💙❤️ 

(Adapted from this twitter thread!)

After my fever-inspired crash-course, Free! fell out of my head for a while, but Rin never did. The following year, I watched a cosplay tutorial for him on YouTube and decided to watch Take Your Marks. I saw The Bench Scene. Suddenly I had an OTP!

My first-ever rinharu friend, Rubi, encouraged me to write fic and kindly beta read for me! I was neck-deep in anxiety at the time because of another fandom and Free! was refreshing. My anxiety was so bad that she actually screened the comments on that first fic to make sure I could read them without spiraling.

I found more shippers & joined the Sakura Pool discord, where I would meet my dear SweetHeaven! Su & the other friends I made there helped shape @ficwip's early days as a hashtag game, and (along w/friends from SPN & VLD) were some of our discord's initial members.

When I was designing the ficwip discord, Aenya was kind enough to share tips for role-based channel permissions & let me pick her brain about modding a year-round space! Her advice was invaluable, an absolute lifesaver. 🙏🙏🙏 

Around this time, through the original #ficwip game on Twitter, I met fellow writer @matsuoka-lin and we got to be friends. (During the pandemic, Lin would join the ficwip server and we would recognize our Aquarius bond ♒)

Late into 2018, I was still writing rinharu fic, and I also participated in Inktober, with a good number of the images being rinharu themed. It had been years since I’d drawn, but those two brought it out of me. Sadly, that December, the VLD finale hit during my very first @rinharuweek and launched me back into the VLD fandom for a couple of years. I never finished my RHW '18 entry. But I never forgot Free! or rinharu, and definitely not Rin, who was my profile pic more often than not. 

Flash forward to 2021. Su won a fic giveaway & prompted me to write a rinharu amnesia fic. I worked on it across 11 months. That awoke my muses, and I ended up writing rinharu hanahaki for @ficwip's 5k!

Last August, I was days away from announcing a fandom-wide SPN event when I recalled my dream of a rinharu bang and mentioned it in passing to Lin. We talked for eight hours straight. By the end of the conversation, @thenightpool had been born. 

We started TNP with the humble goal of five participants in our first event, a mermaid-themed fic & art fest. We had months to prepare! Then something happened with FS2 and we scrambled to launch a Halloween fest that we pulled off thanks to incredible contributors. They formed the foundation of the TNP discord, which is set up a lot like ficwip’s to be a year-round little creative community. We’ll actually be launching our own version of fw’s writing retreat weekends later this month! 

The merfest, which got renamed Unleashed Blue, blew past our expectations — as did Sakurathon, a dormant event that we revived for a weekend in April. UB ended up with 52 entries; we’d hoped for maybe 15. Sakurathon was such a success that we rescheduled it immediately. Right now, we have a prompt meme running, and have events scheduled through 2024! 😅 

In addition to @thenightpool, we’ve formed @iwatobievents to promote events across the Free! fandom. And we’re running events there too, for Nagisa and Soumako. Because what is sleep!! 

So the TL;DR is that the rinharu fandom helped give @ficwip life, has inspired me as a writer and artist, led me to my best and dearest friends, and will make a big dream come true later this year: I’ll finally be running a rinharu bang! 💙❤️

And I still have a Rin Matsuoka icon.

(eta: I did, up until the day I posted this. It may temporarily be changed to another favorite character!)

[watchingspnagain]

Rewatching Heaven and Hell

Welcome to “I think I shall never see an angel as lovely as a tree: A Supernatural Rewatch Blog” with Lor and Mace!

 Up today, s4e10: Heaven and Hell.

   So, turns out Anna is a fallen angel, and Cas and Uriel have been sent to bump her off. Meanwhile, Anna wants to do another kind of bumping with Dean, who's trying to come to terms with his part in the war between heaven and hell (oh, kitten, if only you knew). Speaking of hell, Ruby and Sam come up with a plan to save Anna while also pitting angels and demons against each other, and it works pretty well, save for Ruby getting tortured some and Anna taking it upon herself to juice up on her old grace and blitz the demons herself. Then, at the end, we get a Sitting-on-Baby's-Hood Confessional from Dean, who finally tells Sammy what really happened in Hell and for how long. The boys are become super-fret.

 Below is a log of our real-time reactions as we watched. Remember that there may be spoilers for any part of SPN’s 15-season run here. Note also that the nature of our conversation is adult and thus it may contain adult language and themes.

  [and we begin:]

 Lor:

nnggggg Cas and his poufy hair and his dramatic entrances

 Mace:

YAS

 Uriel pounds on Dean but Cas just forehead fingers Sam I LOVE HIM

 Lor:

YAAAAS

Imagine watching this not having SEEN it before

(I mean, I shouldn't have to imagine but I don't really remember)

 Mace:

YES

I don’t remember either

Lor:

"sent the angels to the outfield" DEEEEAN I love you

 Mace:

 YAS

 Lor:

I want to make fun of Anna for "we're in trouble huh?" but honestly the idea that if the Winchesters are scared it REALLY is time to be scared is pretty accurate

 Mace:

YUP

can it, Anna. Nobody cares.

 Lor:

right?

 Mace:

 PERKY LITTLE ASS

 Lor:

why did it take this show like seven years before they could write a woman less than 50 who wasn’t annoying as hell? (exception for Bella)

 YES

 Mace:

RIGHT?!

 i don’t know that I don’t believe in hypnosis but I can’t understand how anyone could be that suggestive. it doesn’t seem possible for someone to count backwards and make me go into a trance

 Lor:

right?

 Mace:

 suggestable? -ible?

 Lor:

suggestestibblitle

 Mace:

 EXACTLY

 Lor:

HOW did Dean not remember this and storm into the empty ready to ungrace Cas? just. HOW.

 Mace:

 RIGHT?!

 Lor:

smarty Sammy

 Mace:

 YAAASSS

 Lor:

I am SHOCKED that Dean thinks feelings are overrated

 Mace:

“you guys are… perfect” Um, hello.

 YES

 Mace:

 that = “Cas is perfect"

 Lor:

YEAH IT DOES

 Mace:

 i mean how many angels has he met?! he sure doesn’t think Uriel is perfect

 Lor:

Cas has been on this show for about 3 minutes at this point and I care 900% more about him than about Anna and her monologue

 Mace:

 HE GUYS CHECK THIS OUT Sam for the win

 Lor:

RIGHT?

 Mace:

 YUP

 Lor:

LOL

 I was gonna say, Sammy, his reality is looking an awful lot like a feverdream these days

 Mace:

 SNORK

 Lor:

I do really like the idea that an angel's grace falls to Earth and becomes a magnificent tree

 Mace:

ME TOO

 HA! That look from Sam. He’s pretty much done with Anna

 Lor:

YEP

 poor Dean. he's just been various versions of "what is my life this is above my pay grade" all ep

 Mace:

how do they not see this as a big ass bluff?! They need Dean

 HAHAHA YES

 Lor:

RIGHT?

 omg his flinch when she touches him

 Mace:

ugh, don’t touch him, hag

 ooof

 Lor:

stop seducing him he's scared

 Mace:

RIGHT?!

 you’re not the wings he wants, lady

 god, his back

 Lor:

LOL

 GET YOUR HAND OFF CAS'S HANDPRINT

 HOW DARE

 Mace:

 YEAH

 Lor:

seriously feels like the most shoehorned in sex scene ever

 Mace:

(Cas will consent to doing it almost anywhere Dean wants, but NOT inside Baby. He can smell her in there still. It’s never come up though because Dean suspects as much and would never.)

 YUP

 Lor:

I get what they were trying to do I guess, but I mean. they have no chemistry. and Dean doesn't sleep with people bc he connects with them over feelings. that's not how he works

 Mace:

 YUP

 Lor:

and nothing convinces me something about Anna makes him break that pattern

 Mace:

 I wonder if they’re trying to make some parallel between her and Dean and Sam and Ruby

 Lor:

(OMG I love that)

 oooof maybe?

they do a really EXCELLENT job paralleling Dean and Cas with Sam and whoever later, so guess they get better at that

 Mace:

 yeah

 Lor:

"HE LIKES YOU"

 Mace:

HE LIKES YOU OMG

 YAAAASSSS

 Lor:

YAAAAAAAS

 Mace:

 ope Team Free Will, bithces

 Lor:

"I guess I just like being a pain in the pooper"

 YAS

 Mace:

 HAHAHAHA

 Lor:

Uriel, you're gross

 Mace:

YUP

 “you’re junkless down there, right?” Is he asking for a friend?

 Lor:

HAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 that line always bothered me bc they're vessels but I guess he doesn't fully understand that yet

 Mace:

 yeah

 Lor:

omg Cas is having feelings over there

 Mace:

 HE IS

 Lor:

actually, I think he does. I think he's falling apart in a flood of feelings of all kinds under there

 Mace:

 YAS

 Lor:

whispers lay me to waste, Cas

 Mace:

he can lay me to waste ANY DAMN DAY

  HAHAHAHAHA YAS

 Lor:

HAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA

 YES Dean save Cas

 Mace:

OOOH DEAN SAVES CAS

  YAS

 Lor:

YES

 mrrrrf Cas's face

 Mace:

 YESYESYES

 Lor:

i always forget that Ruby bringing the demons was their plan

 Mace:

YES

  oh Sammy’s face

 Lor:

RIGHT?

 his voice breaking

 Mace:

 RIGHT?!

 Lor:

the lip tremble and the progression to like one tear

 Mace:

 YES

 Lor:

the tiny sobs he's not letting out

 Mace:

and Sam’s agony behind him

  I CANNOT

 Lor:

HOW DOES HE DO THIS?

 YES

 "I wish I couldn't feel a damn thing"

 GAAAAH

 AND all this while Cas is just starting to feel!

 Mace:

He envies the angels because he thinks they can’t feel, but Cas is starting to feel because of him

 Mace:

 OMG LOR

 Lor:

MAAAAAAACE

 Mace:

 Cas is the key to Dean taming those feelings and Dean is Cas’s key to opening up the feels

 Lor:

YAAAAAS

 [after the episode ended:]

Lor:

I'm so glad they didn't try to keep Anna as a foil/love interest/recurring character and went with Cas. even if they never ever intended any romantic feelings bt Dean and Cas *stares into camera*, Cas is a much more interesting character (the angel considering disobedience rather than the one who already made the choice) and Misha and Jensen are just so dynamic on screen. Anna is fine, but it doesn't come alive the way moments between Dean and Cas do

 Mace:

agreed

 i wonder if Misha’s already-clear-this-early acting chops were a part of that decision, plus the lack of chemistry with the Anna actor

 Lor:

i have heard that that was pretty much exactly it

 who knows what is really true or if that is just something that has been speculated and repeated so often for 14 years that it's become "true" but

 Mace:

 yeah

 I remember hearing/reading that, too

  Lor:

but beyond that I don't think I've heard anyone who would actually KNOW say anything about it

 and they aren't likely to? I mean, you'd effectively be saying the actress wasn't that great. none of those guys is gonna say that about a fellow actor

  Mace:

 exactly

[redleavesinthewind]

7, 22 & 26!

7. What is your deepest joy about writing?

oh it is that feeling when everything flows well and i’m just in the moment writing whatever comes to mind and it doesn’t have to be good but i’m not doubting myself and it is so fun, i wish those moments would happen more often

22. How organized are you with your writing? Describe to me your organization method, if it exists. What tools do you use? Notebooks? Binders? Apps? The Cloud?

okay so that depends on the story/fic i’m working on! for shorter fics i just open a doc and start writing. if they get longer, i write an outline first, but how detailed it is ALSO depends on the story. here’s it’s not about the length of the fic; i have an incredibly detailed outline for one that’s projected to be 30-35k words, whereas a fic that’s potentially gonna be 80k+ only has a skeleton of an outline and the rest is filled in as i go. the outline is usually in a seperate doc (which i tend to call masterdoc) and the specific scenes are copied over to the drafting doc as i write them. which, both the masterdoc and the drafting doc are in microsoft word, then the finished chapter is copied to a google doc for my beta and for me to edit it (because i find that editing works better on gdoc than word) and then the finalised version is copied back into a final draft word doc, so that i can look over it one last time (changing the ways i view the doc back and forth helps me catch things i otherwise wouldn’t). if we’re going back to origins, as soon as i have an idea, it gets a notesheet on my phone, though it doesn’t stay there for long until i create a masterdoc and copy everything over. for the writing itself, i tend to sprint. doing that in a private discord server with a sprint bot, because it gets me more focused, and also makes me take regular breaks. for my original fiction, i usually also create spreadsheets for character organisation, timelines, etc. i do have a bunch of physical notebooks and carry one with me at all times in case i get an idea in the moment and can’t write it down otherwise, though i think that’s a remnant from when i went to secondary school and couldn’t just take my phone out at any time of the day

26. How do you get into your character's head? How do you get out? Do you ever regret going in there in the first place?

i genuinely don’t know. it just happens. i did rewatch a few spn episodes with jody and donna in them before writing hunting contact, but that was more because i just hadn’t seen them in a while and needed to check some details (and also just wanted to watch those eps again tbh) but otherwise i think i just have a good understanding of the characters i write about because i rewatch those shows over and over again (i am normal). and considering original characters, they’ve come from my head, so i just intrinsically understand them. about the regretting going there in the first place, i don’t, but i’ve learned that i have to be careful sometimes. back in december, while plotting for my young royals fic (brothers) i based some of wille’s mental health issues around mine (because i do feel like we’re similar in that regard), and the plotting alone was a bit much (though tbh i wasn’t in a great mental space in december) so i know i’m gonna have to be careful when i actually write those scenes

[the-rollerchloster]

The number of barn scene gifs and mentions showing up in the notes on this is frankly equal parts disturbing and completely expected.

I know that a lot of wincest shippers and "spn is about the brothers actually" people think that if you hate the finale it's purely because you're a heller who is upset about Dean and Cas not getting to make out, but I'd like to think that the notes on this poll are proving that to be categorically untrue.

I AM a heller, but Cas not being in the finale isn't even in my Top 3 reasons why I hate it so much. The main reason I hate 15x20 is because it completely flushes 15 years of character development down the shitter. You could watch 1x01 and then 15x20 one after the other and feel like you haven't missed anything that happened in between, so what the fuck was the point of the other 325 episodes?

I know that covid-protocols changed the plan, and that the team who were deemed essential enough to create those last two episodes did the best with what they were given. I know that Jensen has been quoted as saying he is proud of the performance he put into these episodes, and that certain people have twisted those comments to think that means he likes it (people misreading Jensen's tone is a whole other post); but I don't for a second think that being proud of something you've achieved automatically means it's good.

I also don't think there was ever going to be a good way to finish a 15-year journey where nothing ever truly stays dead. Death is not and has never been closure on Supernatural, so having it end with "and everybody died" is a fucking cop-out.

Even if Supernatural hadn't taken a 15-year journey through Sam and Dean finding out that "family don't end with blood; but it don't start there either", and it had remained a story that was just about their co-dependent trauma bond from a childhood of being raised by a one-track-minded monster hunter, how on earth was one of them dying bloody a success story? How was the other giving up everything he'd ever known a success story?

Add the complexity of the 325 episodes between 1x01 and 15x20 to the mix, and how on earth anybody can think that Dean still wanted to go out with a bang and Sam still wanted his apple pie life absolutely astonishes me?! As they each enveloped more and more people into their lives and their hearts, their motivations changed, as motivations are wont to do as you age from your 20s to your 40s. These are both multi-dimensional characters with changing hopes, dreams and desires that are shaped by the world around them.

In a story that is about family, fate and faith, the finale completely corrupts all three of those things. The Winchester brothers had their chosen family taken away from them, the manipulator of their fate was removed and left them completely directionless, and their faith was decided for them when they were thrust into a heaven (where their parents are supposedly happy together just down the way) that had been newly designed by their 4-year old foster son.

Throughout the entire series we are continuously told season finale after season finale that "there will be peace when you are done", but the Sam and Dean I know would not have felt at peace in that version of heaven. They would have had questions, and a lot of them, and a hell of a lot more work to do.

Don't forget to check out the other polls! There's a new one every day!

[mattzerella-sticks]

Here's how the SPN finale could have been great, if they had the people from Adventure Time running the show:

- it immediately starts off in the future, with a haggard, older Sam fighting monsters and being reckless; he's hunting with some younger hunters, maybe Claire and Kaia; they invite him to drinks but he declines and gets in the Impala and drives away; he takes his eyes off the road to look at a picture of him and Dean and his family that he keeps in the glove box and we get bright lights on his face then a cut to black

- Sam wakes up young again, and there's people around and he realizes he's in Heaven; his Heaven includes Bobby and he explains that Jack has restructured Heaven, it's expansive and there's 'worlds' instead of reliving memories; Sam says that that's cool and asks where Dean is; Bobby distracts him by showing him the Roadhouse and everyone, and it's cool but Sam asks if Dean will be by; this is where we find out Dean isn't in this plane, and that he has his own place; Sam is stunned because he expected to see Dean, and demands to go see him; gets told no

- Sam rushes out to confront Jack and gets into a scuffle with angels which brings back Gabriel who stops them, asking them "you know who this is?" Gabe takes him to Jack and they talk, Sam demanding to see Dean; "he's happy Sam." "No! He can't be happy without me!" Sam goes off to search Heaven for Dean

- Along the way he runs into friends old and new (Charlie, Men of Letters, Rufus, Missouri, Mary and John); even monster Heaven, like Benny; those who were monsters but still good

- Eventually Sam gets caught by the angels and brought back to Jack and we get Jack talking about how he gave up his normal life for this, to make Heaven such a great place; and in it we get some insight that this responsibility was too much for him, too young, and Sam apologizes for how he's been acting like a child too; "But that doesn't mean I want to stop. I need to see Dean."

- "Then let me take you to him." Camera turns, revealing Cas

- Cas takes Sam to a Lake House, Dean's Heaven, and watches him playing with Miracle in the field. "This is his Heaven?" "Actually it... it's ours." Destiel reveal. Boom.

- Dean and Sam see each other and run and crush each other into hugs, talking about how they missed each other; they go into the house to reconnect; Sam fills Dean in and then goes like "Now it can be the two of us again..." which, Dean makes a face at.

- This is Dean's perfect Heaven and he enjoys it, and it doesn't seem like Sam is ready; "oh, so your Heaven is perfect because I'm not in it?" "No. Of course not. It's just... this is my perfect Heaven, just like you'll have yours. We can still talk but... but looking back, I don't regret how it went down. Not anymore. Not that I have Cas."

- Sam then reveals he still has baggage from how it went down, and spent every day jumping into danger until they could reunite because he never expected Dean's death to hurt that bad (instead of making us think Sam's family farce was actually him moving on...)

- Dean tells him he's sorry that he left, but death wasn't the answer; "No matter what, we would have always found each other. What was important is you should have lived your life without my shadow over you."

- Sam breaks down crying, wishing he could have another chance

- Jack offers it to him

- They say their goodbyes, with Cas and Dean standing side by side, Cas's arm around Dean; their hands tangled by Cas's side; they watch Sam disappear and share a few words and kiss

- we cut back to Sam, at the top of the episode, with the invitation for drinks still waiting; this time, he accepts; before he meets them there, though, he asks for a quick minute; he reaches into his phone and sends a quick text to Eileen "I'm sorry for what happened. Can we talk." Then he gets in the car and starts driving to the bar, opposite of where he was going originally, as Carry On My Wayward Son plays and the camera zooms out to capture the Impala driving away

THIS IS HOW DEAN DYING COULD HAVE WORKED