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thepersonperson · 2 months ago

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Thoughts on JJK's ending and my Dream/Delusion Theory being wrong.

Original Theory

Follow-Up on Characters Feeling OOC

(Written using TCBscans. Click images for captions/citaitons.)

Preface

I want to say that this ending could’ve worked if it were given more time. The majority of my complaints are the rushing which I mostly blame exploitation at the hands of the manga industry and predatory contracts.

Here are my original thoughts on JJK 268 when it released and JJK 269 when it released. I've basically reverted to those opinions.

Examining JJK 268–271 as Presented

When the last chapter of Umineko came out, its author Ryukishi07 very much spat in the faces of fans. He mocked them mercilessly and it was glorious. Every single criticism he lobbed at them was warranted because he targeted the fans that refused to see the love he put into his work or engage with the story on its terms.

“Without love, it cannot be seen.”

Ryukishi gave you all the tools to solve the mystery. He told you exactly how to do it. And yet some weren’t satisfied. They wanted everything neatly handed to them in a bow. Ryukishi denied them that simple ending in favor of sticking to his vision and rewarding the fans that accepted Umineko for what it was.

I have my own issues with the ending, but none of my complaints are related to that. I can also say with confidence what happens is completely in character, it’s just not something I personally vibe with.

When I read JJK 268–271 I feel that same creator frustration. I see Gege’s fatigue with fans who care only about the surface level presentation and nothing else. There’s been so much fun setups and follow throughs. So many subtle characterizations and symbolism that goes unnoticed by those who are unwilling to see the love Gege puts into his craft.

“JJK fans can’t read.” This is a fandom joke that is very true. A massive part of the fanbase ignores subtlety and gets upset or confused by Gege following through on it. The entire Sukuna battle was like that. You could pick out all the reasoning behind their actions if you paid close attention.

But then we get JJK 269 where Gege does something he's never done before—over-explain everything bluntly in a way that adds more plot holes and hinders character development. It feels like Gege is going “You don’t understand what I put down? Ok fine! Here are the answers!” It feels like getting to tell those fans off was more important than everything else.

Instead of doing a Ryukishi where he tears into uncharitable critics and rewards those who gave him a chance, Gege just abandons it all and makes an ending that won’t fully satisfy anyone.

With my theory, I decided to look past everything I hated. I decided to trust that if a mistake was made, Gege would call it out like usual. I decided to trust that the inconsistent locations were intentional because Gege has not once ever flubbed them. I decided to trust the clever set up and follow through that’s always been there, even when Gege’s health problems were at their worst.

I decided to look at Gege’s work with love and my heart was trampled for it. My post now serves as glaring proof the ending is botched and nothing makes sense. All the plotholes I found solutions for are bigger than ever. JJK 269 in its entirety is utterly pointless narratively. It could’ve been spent on political fallout, grief, or villain backstories, but instead it reads like a defensive Reddit post.

JJK 271 isn't Satisfying

JJK 271 made everything about JJK 269 worse and then added some more nonsense. Sukuna’s last appearance really sucked for me. I found his entire interaction with Mahito to be grossly OOC.

Mahito is a character who finds humans disgusting and doesn’t care about their opinions or what they do. They also don’t like Sukuna. When Jogo believes that the age of curses needs Sukuna to work, Mahito says they can surpass him. The very idea that Mahito would be upset by Sukuna becoming more human goes against their entire established character.

And more continuity errors!

This conversation is actually their 4th. Here are the other 3:

Sukuna warning Mahito not to touch him.

Sukuna punishing Mahito for touching him.

And Mahito telling Sukuna to shut up and watch him be even better.

Their relationship was antagonistic and Mahito desired a world without Sukuna. Why would Sukuna be with them in the afterlife?

And if Sukuna was going to change his mind it should’ve been with someone he cared about. Jogo and Gojo would’ve been great candidates. Or you know…it could’ve been Uraume themself. In the way Yuji voiced his feelings to Megumi and reached out to him, Sukuna could’ve done the same with Uraume. It could’ve been a thing that expanded more on their relationship and how it came to be. But Uraume doesn’t even get to voice how they feel about anything.

What we get is Sukuna talking to someone he doesn’t like about his emotional issues he has been suppressing and then deciding to live for a person whose history we know nothing of.

I knew him being an unwanted child screwed him up. But that kind of stuff takes a long, long time to unpack. And Sukuna, up until this point has given no indication he was ready to acknowledge his trauma, just like Gojo. Even in the end Gojo can’t admit to Toji and Geto traumatizing him. Sukuna knowing his heart and being so casually open about it just flies in the face of the subtle characterization that existed up until that point. (I wanted Hidden Inventory Arc type reveal you know! But tell not show is prevailing seemingly out of spite.)

He dies stubborn and hateful towards Yuji. He lies to him about feeling nothing and not liking flowers. For him to turn around in death and go I was wrong the entire time no problem to someone he has an antagonistic relationship with is extremely OOC because it wasn't earned.

And since when did Sukuna fear his own curse? When was that ever hinted? All that was suggested was Sukuna having a rough childhood and being exploited by others until he had enough.

Even for all the characters that survived, this isn’t a satisfying ending. Their coping with trauma is unrealistic and contradicts earlier characterization. Their relationships are not explored further. All their arcs or goals are neglected, save Yuji. Nobara didn’t even get to meet up with her childhood friends like she always wanted to. Just the mom letter.

It’s also jarring to see that a series that began with mourning, a series that made itself different by having children deal realistically with traumatic things, end where that heart no longer exists. We have so many characters who are explicitly motivated by their trauma. And we get to see them cope with it in their unique ways and still choose to chase joy through the hurt.

And these final 4 chapters? It’s gone. Yuta being so distressed over everyone treating Gojo like an object and not acknowledging his personhood? Gone. Megumi, Yuji, and Nobara sucking at dealing with death? Gone. They all act like none of it really mattered and won’t affect them for the rest of their lives. Those who were lost are forgotten quickly and their efforts are not remembered. (At this point, everyone ignoring Choso hurts worse than Gojo tbh.)

The Totally Not Kenjaku surviving decapitation and brain eating makes no sense if that's real. And the implications from that are horrible. All Gojo wanted to do was mourn Geto’s body. All we wanted was to see someone mourn him or acknowledge his efforts. I was hoping they’d be buried together. The idea that Geto’s body is possibly being used by a the master manipulating rapist while everyone is ok with that sickens me. (Does any remember Choso?! But hey, let’s kill all the incarnated culling game players who were victims of manipulation or outright helpful to the protagonists’ victory!)

It’s also why Mei Mei surviving and going unpunished or criticized for her treatment of Ui Ui sucks to see. And I guess while we’re at it. Kusakabe really did tell a 15 year old to his face he should’ve died. (And he was wrong about that like the higher ups. Yuji and Sukuna were a backup plan and the fingers were getting stronger all on their own. Gojo was the only adult who took productive action against it.)

The revolution really did die with Gojo. His dreams were good and noble. Resetting the Jujutsu Society and its exploitation was needed. But he gives up on them and asks to be forgotten. It's done in a way that feels like Gege is addressing his fans directly and telling them to get over him too.

I knew Gojo was suicidal, don’t get me wrong, but he was characterized as someone who had a hard time understanding that others did care about him. I was hoping for the revelation his intuition was wrong via a funeral or mourning. That didn't happen and it breaks my heart.

Yuta tried to empathize with him. We see it with the Yujo plot that goes nowhere except to disrespect Gojo’s body one last time. We don't even get to know if he was cremated or buried or how Yuta felt about that experience. It is extremely hard to see this all as anything but Gege expressing resentment for Gojo’s popularity.

And I’ll give Gege credit for that. The only theme that stayed consistent was Gojo being seen as an object to be exploited by everyone, except Sukuna. (I’m not even sure if I can include Yuji and Yuta in the cares deeply for Gojo anymore. It’s so OOC for them to be like this that I want to ignore it.)

The balance of the world changed when Gojo was born. We had several chapters dedicated to how this impacted various people's lives from Toji to random curse users. His death should be just as impactful.

But you know. Kenjaku was proven right. The cycle of curses will continue on because the systemic problems were never dealt with.

The conditions that allowed for Yuji and Sukuna to be created still exist.

Reflection

I understand why people like myself want to reject this ending. It doesn’t feel like Gege put love into it. All the fun little quirks this series had are flattened and discarded in what feels like spite. Not even the final battle has the fun energy that was present just 4 chapters ago.

I’ve decided that I’ll accept these last 4 chapters for what they are, but reject everything they stand for. They’re more interesting to discuss and pick apart than actually read…which ironically is how I feel about Umineko’s final chapter.

And speaking of Umineko… My favorite thing about the reaction to my Dream/Delusion Theory was this—the people who said, if they can’t handle what’s in the catbox, this is their canon.

The fans who love the series and want to weave their own tales based on this in a way that helps others cope, please tag me in your creations. (Especially you @rosemaryreality!) It’s all incredibly Umineko and I’m forever grateful I got to experience the Rokkenjima Incident in real time.

Very important to Umineko’s themes, there was a common sentiment type across those that were dismissive of my theory vs those who were receptive to it—their perception of the mangaka, Gege.

To those that believed Gege was a bad writer, the idea that he could be clever and put love into this series was impossible to them, and therefore my theory was impossible. To those that had faith in Gege as a writer, my theory was solid, even if it needed a little tweaking.

I had the most fun with those who cited manga at me to make corrections like @runabout-river. Or those who wanted clarification on the holes I missed.

The ones that were entirely dismissive? It was boring. Their arguments mostly amounted to “Gege bad”. (I won't post screenshots here because I don't want them harassed, but they are there if you want to verify them.) Not a single person offered me an interpretation where the events were literal and took place in reality using manga panel citations in a way that tied it all into JJK’s themes and characters.

That disappointed me immensely. I wanted someone to prove to me my reasoning was wrong with a similar methodology. Instead they drew rebuttals stemming from their perceived flaws or outright dislike of Gege.

This is quite literally what happens in Umineko. It’s a murder mystery that can only be solved if you consider love. Both the love within the characters themselves and the love the author has put into his creation.

Is it magic or is it a simple trick? Is it a delusion or is it reality? Depending on how you answer and solve the mystery, your interpretation of the story itself changes too.

I wound up being wrong of course, and Gege really did screw up everything in the end. But while that delusion was real? I had a blast.

I’ll be forever grateful to everyone that proved Ryukishi right about Umineko’s core theme.

#cactus yaps #Something something capitalism destroys art.#Umineko Kaisen was the friends I made along the way.#This has been my Potential Kaisen.#The potential man memes should be applied to the worldbuilding and plot points.#I'm not joining the leaks are intentional fakes copium. I witnessed BBC Sherlock S4. Dec 25th Vol release won't change anything.#I do expect Gege to be interviewed about the ending and him discussing alternatives he had in mind.#Since I'm going on vacation next week I'm leaving asks off until after I get back. Then I will go back to true yapfesting.#jujutsu kaisen #jjk spoilers #jjk 271

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leosficlist · 3 months ago

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POST S-4 Getting Together

These fics are about their relationship Post Season 4, which could include apologies and fix-its, or simply fics which acknowledged the events of S4!

Post S4 pt2, Post S4 pt3

Bridges by sussexbound 🔒6.6k words

The silence between them is deafening, interrupted only by the hum of the traffic outside, and the soft click-clunk of the plastic cups Rosie is playing with on the floor beside them. It is the first time they have been alone together, since Sherlock’s birthday. It’s only been two days, but it feels huge, important, like there is a precarious bridge stretched out before them both that they need to at least attempt to traverse.

Nocturne by Atiki 6.6k words

All the most important conversations happen at night.

holding steady by darcylindbergh 12.7k words

“Sitting on a thick wool blanket at the end of a rickety dock side-by-side, legs dangling over the edge, a styrofoam container of wet, dark dirt between them, they’re fishing.”

John knows what this is about. This is about finally figuring it out.

notes: post-everything, no eurus mention, getting away for the weekend

Finally Home by LondonSpirit 🔒 3.5k words

“After the final problem is solved, after everything's resolved, and Sherlock and John have returned to a more or less ordinary life, there's only one ting left to do.

But can they eventually admit what everyone else already knew for a long time, or are they still too blind to see?”

Sehnsucht by unicornpoe 14.7k

Sehnsucht: longing, pining, yearning, craving, intensely missing. An individual’s search for happiness while coping with the reality of unattainable wishes.

John is here now, yes, yes he is. He and Rosie are back home in 221B with Sherlock, safe where they belong... but why is there still a hole deep inside Sherlock, wide and gaping and consuming? Does John feel it too? And what will it take to fill it?

Alternative Facts by SwissMiss 🔒10k words

It was so nice to see they'd finally got things sorted. After all they'd been through, they deserved to be happy. (Or: Five times people imagined what John and Sherlock get up to in the bedroom, and one time we see what they really get up to.)

Six Dates by AvaWtsn 7.4k

A rather accidental 5+1 written for the prompt "is this a date?" Hint: it is.

notes: the first 6 fridays after John moves back in

Whisper To Me by Chrysanthemumsies 20.7k words

Sherlock picks up playing the guitar. John falls more and more in love with every passing day.

notes: John struggling with his feelings, slowly creeping together

Questions and Answers by Pipmer 3.1k

It was useless. What was the point? No amount of talking was ever going to change that John wasn’t interested, and never would be. The only way he would be tempted to pull up house again would be if the practical advantages were enormous, and they just weren’t. Why else would he even consider it?

notes: Sherlock wants John & Rosie to move back in

Once Upon A Time by darcylindbergh 6.5k

It starts with a wish.

In the beginning, John comes home.

notes: fluffy soft warm

Getting On With It by StarlightandFireflies 8k words

“What is it?” Sherlock finally asked, staring into his tea. “Nothing,” John said quickly. After all, he could hardly just come out and say the truth: It’s just hit me again, all this. I’ve realized I’m here, and you’re here, and for some reason you don’t hate me, and yet I’ve got no bloody idea where to go from here. I want to do right by you but it’s hitting me as if for the first time that I’ve no clue how to do that, even though it’s what you deserve. Rated M for chapter 2

notes: "your heart's always been in the right place" "for you John, yes"

Negative Space by Standbygo 8.8k words

John takes a drawing class, but drawing Sherlock has unexpected results.

notes: John’s in therapy, Sherlock goes to John’s art show

Home by liriodendron 2.9k words

Sherlock opens his mouth to ask how he can make the pain go away, but he realizes halfway through that he doesn't know how one asks such a thing, so the only word that escapes his lips is, "John..."

There is a sharp intake of breath at his name, and then John says in a voice like a broken radio, "Take me home, Sherlock."

notes: sex for comfort post-mary's death

Out Of The Woods by SilentAuror

Sherlock is fairly certain that John has taken to flirting with him of late, but can't be entirely certain of it. At least, not until a case takes them into a forest, along with Lestrade's team and something happens that will change everything about their lives...

notes: pining Sherlock, miscommunications, then oodles of fluff, love confessions, virginlock, john plots a romantic date

#johnlock fanfic #johnlock post s4 #post s4 #bbc sherlock #bbc johnlock #johnlock rec

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