#batman 444

[timdrakeinorder]

Batman #444: Crimesmith And Punishment

Part One

Part Two

[librarylexicon]

same energy

Early Tim was very eager to learn...

[nerds-yearbook]

In Batman 444, cover date February 1990, Dana Hanrahan was introduced and marked the final appearances of Crimesmith and Jeffrey Fraser (dies). Dana Hanrahan was created by Marv Wolfman and Jim Aparo. ("Crimesmith and Punishment" Batman 444, DC Comic Event)

[wanderingmind867]

Here's the Batfamily section of my DC reading list. I'm combining it with the list for the Superman and Batman team up books (like World's Finest, Brave and The Bold, or DC Comics Presents).

Batman:

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 1 (Detective Comics #36, 38-55, Batman #1-7, New York World's Fair Comics #2, World's Best Comics #1 and World's Finest Comics #2-3)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 2 (Detective Comics #58-74, Batman #8-15 and World's Finest Comics #4-9)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 3 (Detective Comics #75-91, Batman #16-25 and World's Finest Comics #10-14)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 4 (Detective Comics #92-112, Batman #26-35 and World's Finest Comics #15-22)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 5 (Detective Comics #113-132, Batman #36-45 and World's Finest Comics #23-32)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 6 (Detective Comics #133-153, Batman #46-55 and World's Finest Comics #33-42)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 7 (Detective Comics #154-173, Batman #56-66 and World's Finest Comics #43-53)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 8 (Detective Comics #174-191, Batman #67-75 and World's Finest Comics #54-62)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 9 (Detective Comics #192-210, Batman #76-85 and World's Finest Comics #63-70)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 10 (Detective Comics #211-232 and Batman #86-100)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 11 (Detective Comics #233-257 and Batman #101-116)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 12 (Detective Comics #258-281 and Batman #117-132)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 13 (Detective Comics #282-303 and Batman #133-148)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 14 (Detective Comics #304-326 and Batman #149-163)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 15 (Detective Comics #327-347 and Batman #164-178)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 16 (Detective Comics #348-371 and Batman #179-198)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 17 (Detective Comics #372-391 and Batman #199-216)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 18 (Detective Comics #396, #399-400, #402, #404, #407-408 and Batman #219-220, #222-223, #226, #229 and #231)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 19 (Detective Comics #415-418, #424-425, #428-429, #432, #434-435 and Batman #232, #234-235, #239, #241 and #247)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 20 (Detective Comics #442, #444-448, #452-454 and Batman #251-260, #262-263 and #266-268)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 21 (Detective Comics #460-476, Batman #272-277, #279-288 and #291-297, DC Special #28 and DC Special Series #1)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 22 (Detective Comics #477-479, #483-484, #486, Batman #301-319 and Batman Family #17 and #20)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 23 (Detective Comics #488, #491-505, Batman #321-324, #326-329, #336-337 and DC Special Series #21)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 24 (Detective Comics #506-526 and Batman #341-359)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 25 (Detective Comics #527-547, Batman #360-381 and Batman Special #1)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Vol. 26 (Detective Comics #548-567, Batman #382-400 and Batman annual #10)

Robin:

DC Deluxe Collections: Robin Vol. 1 (Star Spangled Comics #65-85)

DC Deluxe Collections: Robin Vol. 2 (Star Spangled Comics #86-105)

DC Deluxe Collections: Robin Vol. 3 (Star Spangled Comics #106-130)

DC Deluxe Collections: Robin Vol. 4 (Detective Comics #390-391, #400-403, Batman #192, #202, #227, #229, #230-231, #234-236, #239-242, World's Finest Comics #200 and Justice League of America #91-92)

DC Deluxe Collections: Robin Vol. 5 (Batman #244-245, #248-250, #252, 254 and Detective Comics #445, #447, #450-451)

DC Deluxe Collections: Robin Vol. 6 (Batman Family #1, #3-9, #11-20, Detective Comics #481-493, Batman #333, #337-339 and DC Comics Presents #31 and #58)

Batgirl:

DC Deluxe Collections: Batgirl Vol. 1 (Detective Comics #359, #363, #369, #371, #384-385, #388-389, 392-393, #396-397, #400-401, #404-424, Batman #197, Justice League of America #60, Superman #268, #279 and Superman Family #171)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batgirl Vol. 2 (Batman Family #1, #3-7, #9-20 and DC Comics Presents #19)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batgirl Vol. 3 (Detective Comics #481-499, #501-502 and #508-510)

The Joker:

DC Deluxe Collections: The Joker Vol. 1 (Batman #251 and The Joker #1-10) ✓

Catwoman:

DC Deluxe Collections: Catwoman Vol. 1 (Batman #345-346, #348-349, #350-351 and Detective Comics #520)

Two-Face:

DC Deluxe Collections: Two-Face Vol. 1 (Batman #81, #234, #258, Detective Comics #66, #68, #80 and DC Super-Stars #14) ✓

The Riddler:

DC Deluxe Collections: The Riddler Vol. 1 (Batman #171, #179, #263, #279 and Detective Comics #140, #142, #362, #364 and #377) ✓

Man-Bat and Jason Bard:

DC Deluxe Collections: Man-Bat and Jason Bard Vol. 1 (Man-Bat stories from Detective Comics #400, #402, #407, #416, #429, Batman #254 and Jason Bard stories from Detective Comics #425, #427, #429, #431, #433 and #435) ✓

DC Deluxe Collections: Man-Bat and Jason Bard Vol. 2 (Detective Comics #458-459, #481, #485, #492, Batman Family #11-20 and Man-Bat #1-2)

Batman Family:

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Family Vol. 1 (Untold Legends of the Batman #1-3, Bruce Wayne stories from Batman #304 and Detective Comics #483, Bat-Mite stories from Detective Comics #482 and The Brave and The Bold #200, Alfred stories from Detective Comics #486, #489, Commissioner Gordon story from Detective Comics #489 and Commissioner Gordon and Alfred story from Batman Family #11)

Superman & Batman:

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman & Batman: World's Finest Vol. 1 (Superman #76 and World's Finest Comics #71-94)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman & Batman: World's Finest Vol. 2 (World's Finest Comics #95-116)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 3 (World's Finest Comics #117-131)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 4 (World's Finest Comics #132-141)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 5 (World's Finest Comics #142-153)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 6 (World's Finest Comics #154-164)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 7 (World's Finest Comics #165-177)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 8 (World's Finest Comics #178-197)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 9 (World's Finest Comics #217-220, #223, #225-227, #232 and #234)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 10 (World's Finest Comics #235-237, #239-240 and #243-249)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 11 (World's Finest Comics #250-260)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 12 (World's Finest Comics #261-262 and #264-270)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 13 (World's Finest Comics #271-276 and #278-281)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 14 (World's Finest Comics #282-291)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 15 (World's Finest Comics #292-293 and #296-302)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 16 (World's Finest Comics #303-313)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman and Batman: World's Finest Vol. 17 (World's Finest Comics #314-323)

DC Team-Ups:

DC Deluxe Collections: DC Team-Ups Vol. 1 (The Brave and The Bold #50-51, #53, #55-56, #61-63, #65-66 and #72-73)

Super-Sons:

DC Deluxe Collections: Super-Sons Vol. 1 (World's Finest Comics #154, #157, #215-216, #221-222, #224, #228, #230-231, #233, #238 and #242)

Batman Team-Ups:

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Team-Ups Vol. 1 (The Brave and The Bold #59, #64, #67-71, #74-76) ✓

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Team-Ups Vol. 2 (The Brave and The Bold #77-86)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Team-Ups Vol. 3 (The Brave and The Bold #87-96)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Team-Ups Vol. 4 (The Brave and The Bold #97-106)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Team-Ups Vol. 5 (The Brave and The Bold #107-116)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Team-Ups Vol. 6 (The Brave and The Bold #117-126)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Team-Ups Vol. 7 (The Brave and The Bold #127-136 and DC Special Series #8)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Team-Ups Vol. 8 (The Brave and The Bold #137-145 and Batman Family #20)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Team-Ups Vol. 9 (The Brave and The Bold #146-155)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Team-Ups Vol. 10 (The Brave and The Bold #156-165)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Team-Ups Vol. 11 (The Brave and The Bold #166-175)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Team-Ups Vol. 12 (The Brave and The Bold #176-185)

DC Deluxe Collections: Batman Team-Ups Vol. 13 (The Brave and The Bold #186-192 and #194-200)

Superman Team-Ups:

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman Team-Ups Vol. 1 (World's Finest Comics #198-214)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman Team-Ups Vol. 2 (DC Comics Presents #1-9 and All-New Collectors Edition #58)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman Team-Ups Vol. 3 (DC Comics Presents #10-19)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman Team-Ups Vol. 4 (DC Comics Presents #20-30)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman Team-Ups Vol. 5 (DC Comics Presents #31-40)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman Team-Ups Vol. 6 (DC Comics Presents #41-49 and annual #1)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman Team-Ups Vol. 7 (DC Comics Presents #50-59) ✓

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman Team-Ups Vol. 8 (DC Comics Presents #60-68 and annual #2)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman Team-Ups Vol. 9 (DC Comics Presents #69-76 and annual #3)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman Team-Ups Vol. 10 (DC Comics Presents #77-84 and annual #4)

DC Deluxe Collections: Superman Team-Ups Vol. 11 (DC Comics Presents #89-97)

[superboy-tm]

Uh oh, Tim doesn't know where his parents are

Batman (1940) #444

Also, despite fanon (and some modernization in interpretations of female characters), it really seems like Jack Drake is the business man and Janet just travels with him as his wife. Alas, it was 1990.

[timdrakequotes]

Tim: I just don’t believe you. You don’t miss anything.

Bruce: You can train yourself to do the same, Tim.

--Tim Drake with Bruce Wayne (Batman #444 – Crimesmith and Punishment)

[phoenixkaptain]

I don’t want to get into a debate on whether or not Tim’s parents were actually abusive, but I do want to state outright that it doesn’t really matter, because Tim didn’t trust his parents.

What do I mean by this? Well, the beginning of Tim in comics is A Lonely Place of Dying (I’ve talked about it ad nauseum at this point) and one thing you may see people mention is what Tim says about his parents in it.

These are both from Batman (1940-2011) #441

Alfred asks, basically, “You do have parents, don’t you?” And Tim’s body language as he talks about them is strange to me.

Tim scratches his face. This is the only time Tim touches his face in these comics. And his eyes, he stops looking at Alfred, who he’s talking to, and looks at Dick, all the while changing the subject.

Is he lying? No. He’s uncomfortable. A part of this is that this interaction takes place before Tim tells them who he is, which Tim doesn’t want them to know. This is just the first time we see any hint of uncertainty on Tim. Interesting.

More interesting is, in the same issue

“I never told them, but for years I kept having the same nightmare over and over again.”

This is pretty clear cut. He doesn’t tell his parents things. He doesn’t tell them important things. And, well, it’s probably because he doesn’t talk to them very often

These two are from Batman (1940-2011) #444

First things first, Bruce brings up the subject. This isn’t the first time, post his introduction, that we see Tim and Bruce talking. They talk in #443. But Bruce has to broach the subject.

And Tim is avoidant. He says they don’t call often, and he isn’t bothered by it, or he doesn’t appear bothered by it. He doesn’t say what they’re fighting about, nor does he actually say what they’ll do if the trip doesn’t help. He’s very offhand about the whole thing. He almost treats it like he isn’t talking about his parents, but just two people in some circumstances he happens to know about.

Tim cuts Bruce off by pointing out the computer. He doesn’t want Bruce to finish, he doesn’t want Bruce making a promise he ultimately won’t keep, he doesn’t want Bruce to focus on him.

Tim’s relationship with his parents, especialy his father, is, from what I know, always presented in this detached way. Even in Young Justice, when Tim talks to his father, he does so through a newspaper. He doesn’t make eye contact, which is a strange thing because Tim always makes eye contact.

(That’s part of why Tim is a bit unnerving in his introduction. He is always making eye contact. Always.)

Tim doesn’t trust his parents. Why doesn’t he? Because they’re busy. Busy with work, busy with fighting, busy with each other. He doesn’t tell them things. He doesn’t tell them about his nightmares, he definitely didn’t tell them about his vacation week roadtrip, and he doesn’t tell them about Bruce.

Does that make them abusive? I guess not. Not in these issues, anyway. Down the line, I think his father especially crosses the line, but at this point? They’re mutually ignoring each other. Tim talks about his parents in a detached way, as though it doesn’t effect him. And, maybe it doesn’t. This was 1989, not exactly the pinnacle of mental health awareness with proficient knowledge of how absent parents effect the children they’ve not been raising.

Or, Tim used Batman and Robin as a proxy for affection, which is why he feels so strongly towards them and why he tells Alfred they mean everything to them and why Tim is unafraid in the face of his own death but panicky in the face of Alfred’s death. Batman and Robin are just his hyperfixation, something to obsessively focus on and keep track of to keep his head above the water, something he’s been obsessed with since he was three and saw Batman for the very first time, something he says himself he’s followed since he could read to the point that he listened to news reports on the off-chance Batman and Robin might be mentioned at the age of nine.

Who knows? ¯\ _(ツ)_/¯

[timdrakeinorder]

Batman #444: Crimesmith And Punishment

Part One

Part Three

[the-babygirl-polls]

Ultimate Babygirl Tournament!!!

Hello everybody! Happy anniversary to this blog! Through the struggles and strifes we have managed to make it a whole year! Yippee!!!

This will be a longer post with all the information regarding it underneath the cut.

tl;dr--all characters, lineup, submission form for images and propaganda, Round 1a with start 12/16

As you voted for the ultimate babygirl tournament where the babygirls with the highest votes fought each other, here is the top 20 that will participate in this tournament:

Tianlang Jun - Scum Villain's Self Saving System (1,326 votes)

Edward Teach - Our Flag Means Death (1,160 votes)

Nona - Nona the Ninth (1,076 votes)

Ballister Boldheart - Nimona (1,030 votes)

Eddie Diaz - 9-1-1 (1,009 votes)

Jean Pierre Polnareff - JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (751 votes)

Harry du Bois - Disco Elysium (705 votes)

Vash Stampede - Trigun (656 votes)

Rand al'Thor - Wheel of Time (623 votes)

Miles Edgeworth - Ace Attorney (603 votes)

Tomura Shigaraki - My Hero Academia (545 votes)

Sanji - One Piece (520 votes)

Bruce Wayne/Batman - DC Universe (480 votes)

Xue Yang - The Untamed (472 votes)

Uchiha Madara - Naruto (471 votes)

Jean Descole - Professor Layton (467 votes)

Harrowhark Nonagesimus - The Locked Tomb (461 votes)

Trafalgar Law - One Piece (452 votes)

Ianto Jones - Torchwood (444 votes)

Buggy the Clown - One Piece (442 votes)

With those 20, here is the bracket for each round! Underneath will be the description since this is kinda hard to read lol

Round 1a

Buggy the Clown vs Harry du Bois

Rand al'Thor vs Uchiha Madara

Sanji vs Bruce Wayne/Batman

Harrowhark Nonagesimus vs Miles Edgeworth

Jean Descole vs Vash Stampede

Xue Yang vs Jean Pierre Polnareff

Eddie Diaz vs Ianto Jones

Tomura Shigaraki vs Trafalgar Law

Round 1b

Tianlang Jun vs (winner of Buggy v Harry)

Nona vs (winner of Sanji v Bruce)

Edward Teach vs (winner of Jean v Vash)

Ballister Boldheart vs (winner of Eddie v Ianto)

Here is the submission form for propaganda and images:

Round 1a will go live on 12/16 to give myself time to make all the polls! Thank you all so much for being on this silly little babygirl journey with me for a whole year, and I can't wait to see how this turns out!

[comicbookbrain]

Zatanna and Batman - Detective Comics 444, Julky 2008

[fancyfade]

I have in read nowhere near every batman comic so there could be more but

Bruce sure gets framed for murder a lot

Batman 225 he is framed (as batman) for the murder of TV personality something jory. In tec 444 or 445 he's framed for talia and ras' murders (as batman again). And in Bruce v wayne murderer he's framed for the murder of vesper(as Bruce this time)

I know batman has thousands of comics and there are going to be repeat ideas but batman 225 and tec 444 were not published that far apart

[gretahayes]

Batman (1940) #444

is this not the same kid you told to piss off last issue. bruce it has been just a week max and you said alfred would train him for a while. bruce.

[dailytims]

Batman (1940) #444

[aingeal98]

hiii. while you're thinking about Al Ghouls do you have any comic book recommendations for them? I want to know more about Ra's and Talia without the post 9/11 narrative. Or more about the LoA in general.Tha k you!

Absolutely! I know there's a few reading guides out there for Talia that can probably give a better overview with a more filtered and streamlined guide. Such as this one here, which features Talia at her best:

Other than Son of the Demon, when I refer to LexCorp era Talia and her old character, these are usually what I'm referring to. This is who she was right before she got tortured into being evil. For a deeper dive into Talia's history, this reading list is really well put together:

If you're looking for something even longer, with the full history and context of Batman and the al Ghuls, here's pretty much everything I've read for the al Ghuls starting from the beginning. I'm not an expert by any means so I may have missed some relevant story or mixed up the order of a few different single issues, but there's enough here to offer a coherent timeline. If you can't afford to buy the comics, all of these should be available to read for free by typing them into a search engine and adding "read online" at the end.

Also please note that you don't have to read all of these. Some of these particularly in the 70s/80s contain repetitive story beats. Ra's has a scheme to make Batman his son in law, Talia helps him out. Batman opposes it, Talia helps Batman but doesn't fully abandon her father. That's the pattern writers fell into after the initial establishing of Ra's and Talia as characters. Some stories are better than others, and some break the mold entirely or put a fresh spin on it.

This is going to be LONG and I apologize in advance. I like to ramble about things. Tis a key part of this blog.

The 70s, aka the beginning of it all

Note: In all of these the al Ghuls feature in the main storyline, not the side stories such as Robin or Batgirl unless noted otherwise.

-Detective Comics 411: Into the Den of Death Dealers

Bruce and Talia's first meeting. Written by Denny O'Neil, Talia and Ra's creator. Batman fights a bull. It's very charming in the way only this era of Batman can be.

-Batman 232: Daughter of the Demon

Ra's and Bruce's first encounter, featuring Dick getting kidnapped, Bruce fighting a leopard, and Ra's attempting a ridiculously elaborate overprotective dad scheme.

-Batman 235: Swamp Sinister

-Batman 240: Vengeance for a Dead Man

The one where Batman and Ra's dynamic takes a turn for the worse, where Batman realizes that Ra's has a very different set of morals to him and can be ruthlessly evil.

-Batman 242-244

Introduction of the Lazarus Pits. Some racially insensitive moments that are on par for the 70s.

-Batman 257: Hail Emperor Penguin

-Detective Comics 444-445 and 447-448

Ra's framed Bruce for murder long before David Cain stole his idea. I think Cain did it better but this is still fun.

-Black Lightning 2: Merlyn Means Murder

A non Batman related Talia appearance.

-Batman: Where Were You on the Night Batman Was Killed?

4 part story where Batman's rogues thinks he's dead and come together to figure out who did it. Not massively important for the al Ghuls but Ra's being the judge in this trial is so funny to me.

-DC Special Series 15: I Now Pronounce You Batman and Wife!

The one where Ra's gets fed up of Batman refusing his son in law offerings so he just knocks him out and drags Batman to the wedding ceremony. Not my favourite by a long shot but the "marriage" is important for Damian's conception, since in Son of the Demon Batman hilariously enough doesn't want to sleep with Talia out of wedlock until she reminds him that they're technically married if you stretch the law by a whole lot. After that he's all for it.

-Detective Comics 485: The Vengeance Vow + Detective Comics 490: Requiem for a Martyr

Not a huge fan of this issue considering it fridges Kathy Kane and uses a brainwashed Bronze Tiger to do so. It's included a lot in reprints of the al Ghul storylines and does give us a look at the inner workings of the League of Assassins, but I could do without it. Also DC having two master martial art old men called Sensei who look very similar with one being good and the mentor of characters like Richard Dragon and Shiva, while the other is Ra's al Ghuls father and evil, is very confusing. You could tell how much they REALLY loved Kung-Fu based characters in this era of comics.

-The Brave and the Bold 159: The Crystal Armageddon

The 80s, aka seeds of Character Development and Plot!

-Batman 330-335

The start of Dick and Talia's dislike of each other. Also featuring the most terribly racist Fox family plotline I've read. It makes me glad Jace Fox gets to be Batman in the future even if I didn't like that comic either. He deserves to be Robin and Nightwing too as compensation for this storyline.

-Batman Annual Volume 1 Issue 8: The Messiah of the Crimson Sun

I enjoy this story because rather than have Talia working with Ra's and switching sides halfway, she's firmly opposed to her father from the start here. We start to see the beginning of character development compared to the regular pattern of the old comics.

-Detective Comics 526: All My Enemies Against Me!

We get Pre Crisis aka Earth One Jason Todd's origin while also getting Talia and Catwoman helping Bruce, Babs and Dick fight all the other rogues. I really, really love this issue and I can't fully explain why. It just ticks all the boxes for me.

-Batman 400: Resurrection Night!

Another comic I really enjoy, with Talia teaming up with Robin!Jason to help Batman and Catwoman foil Ra's latest scheme.

-Batman: Son of the Demon

Damian's origin. A must read. The tragedy of what could have been and how loved he was by both parents kills me every time.

The 90s aka we're getting darker and edgier now. Also featuring character regression and Bane for some reason.

-Batman: Bride of the Demon

Classic shenanigans but featuring Tim as Robin this time.

-Batman: Birth of the Demon

Ra's al Ghul origin story time! Trigger warning for sexual assault. Definitely not the tone a 70s era Ra's comic would have but not bad in my opinion.

-The Batman Adventures 13 + 17

Set in the Batman The Animated Series universe, it shows this universe's version of Talia and Ra's and is a pretty faithful adaption! Shocking I know.

-Azrael Issues 5-9 + 29-30

Azrael meets the al Ghuls and Ra's considers making Azrael his heir instead. Basically a classic Ra's Talia and Batman story with Azrael there instead of Batman. Not my favourite, it feels like it belongs in the 70s instead of being 90s al Ghuls.

-Batman: Brotherhood of the Bat + League of Batmen

A future elseworld story starting Tallant Wayne, son of Talia and Bruce. Clearly inspired by the baby in Son of the Demon, who would grow up to be Damian in main continuity.

-Batman: Legacy Volume 1 + 2

A sequel to Batman: Contagion, where a deadly virus spread through Gotham and even infected Tim. This time Ra's is in charge of the spread of the second round of the virus, Talia is back under his thumb and seems miserable about it. And also Ra's is considering making Bane his heir and Talia's husband, which probably contributes a fair bit to her misery. Character regression for Talia compared to how much she went against Ra's in the 80s, but one I personally find realistic. Main drawback is that a lot is written by Chuck Dixon and Talia is weirdly sexual at times. An understandable deal breaker for many, but it's the biggest 90s al Ghul story so I felt it important to mention.

-The Batman and Robin Adventures #10

Set in the comic version of the Batman The Animated Series universe, so if you're a fan of that cartoon you'll probably enjoy this.

-Batman Chronicles Volume 1 #8

Talia centred story that sums up her internal conflict between her father and Batman. Gets to the heart of why Ra's, despite his love for her, is not a good parent at all. Would recommend.

-Batman & Spider-Man: New Age Dawning

Crossover goodness for any Spiderman fans out there.

-Batman No Man's Land #0

The Talia cameo here is good imo. It shows layers to her and Bruce's dynamic that we haven't fully seen before. Plus we get to see Helena becoming the Bat of No man's land.

-Batman: The Chalice

One shot that doesn't fit in NML continuity despite being published at the time. I'm adding it anyway because I enjoy how it portrays Ra's and Talia. A nice break from their most toxic era so far (relationship wise).

The early 2000s aka The Brief and Glorious Talia Independence Era

-JLA: Tower of Babel

The tipping point. Ra's goes too far in messing with Batman, and Talia leaves him. It should have been her permanent break from Ra's and his cult, but if you ignore everything from Death and the Maidens onwards and live in denial like me, it still is!

(This comic also had the unfortunate consequence of giving the most insufferable "Batman solos fiction" fans more fodder. But tis a small price to pay for Talia finally freeing herself from Ra's suffocating grip on her life.)

-Batman Chronicles 22

You get good short stories for Shiva, Steph AND Talia in this issue, exploring more of their character without any of the usual entourage around to hog the spotlight

-Detective Comics 750

Talia is so delightfully done with both Ra's and Bruce. She's sick and tired of their shit and doesn't want to be dragged into it any more. If Tower of Babel was her gaining independence from Ra's, this is her gaining it from Bruce.

-Action Comics 772-773

The start of Talia's LexCorp era.

-JLA Secret Files and Origins 3

Flashback story giving more insight into Talia's POV during Tower of Babel.

-President Luthor Secret Files and Origins #1

-Batman Legends of the Dark Knight 142-145

Like the Birds of Prey storyline of this time, these issues make no attempt to stay in continuity with the rest of this era. It's more a generic 90s story than one that fits where the characters are timeline wise at the date it was published. Only reason I'm adding it to the list is because you get Talia shooting the Joker and leaving him for dead. Batman has to dip him in the Lazarus Pit to stop him from bleeding out.

-Superman Volume 2 Issue 170 (cameo)

-Batman: Our World's at War Issue 1

-Superboy Volume 4 #89

-Suicide Squad 2001 #2 (side role)

-Superman: The Man of Steel 120

Talia is trying to take down LexCorp from the inside meanwhile Superman is like "I stopped the evil stuff you were doing!" and she's like "Congrats you destroyed the evidence of LexCorp doing evil stuff in the process." He still doesn't realise she's on his side, which to be fair is part of her whole antihero deal at the minute.

-Adventures of Superman 600

-Superman: The Man of Steel 122-125

Plot starts in 122. Talia appears in 123 onwards.

-Superman Volume 2 Issue 190 + 194 + 198

Batman: Hush Issue 4. (brief appearance) and Issue 9.

Decent Talia characterisation to me, not so decent Lady Shiva appearance. Torn between amusement and disappointment that Talia manages to beat her by hitting her with a chair. (Yes, really.)

-Superman/Batman #6

Batman informs Lex that Talia has bankrupted him and sold the LexCorp building to Bruce Wayne. Sucks to suck, Lex.

After this, there was so much potential. You had a solid basis for Talia as an independent anti-hero, using her connections to team up with villains only to double cross them when the time is right and take them down from the inside. A master at espionage in the making. Instead Death and the Maidens happens. You might as well skip to Robin: Son of Batman and fill in the blanks however your imagination deems fit. It's probably better than what DC came up with.

[taliaalghulhub]

Detective Comics (1937) Issues 444, 445 and 448

Ok this is another comic I don't think a lot of people know about

Batman responds to an armed bank robbery and on confronting the person in charge she reveals herself to be Talia, after hearing the police entering Talia runs and Batman appears to shoot her in the back though he claims to have never pulled the trigger

He's accused of murder by Jim Gordon who claims there was nothing wrong with the gun and the fact that he loved her but hated her father was a valid reason he might have done it. Gordon tries to arrest Batman but Batman escapes leaving Scrag Donovan tied up to the bat signal

In Detective Comics 445 Jack Ryder shows that Batman is wanted for murder on the news. Alfred also askes Bruce is he murdered Talia to which he denies immediately

Batman then takes a prison guard uniform and disguises himself as a guard to go and visit Ra's Al Ghul in his jail cell.

Ra's then admits that he was the one who actually had Talia murdered and Batman framed for it, he then shoots himself and says that nothing is to precious to sacrifice in return for revenge agents Batman. As he dies he throws the gun towards Batman

He's seen by guards who then try to arrest him again, he's almost caught as a person he put in jail holds him through the bars but using gas manages to make his escape leaving only his cape behind.

Detective comics 448 opens with a shot of Gaston St. Lucifer's circus and Bruce disguised with a goatee and a fringed jacket, here we see multiple characters introduced including Sireena "The Sensuous Snake Charmer" , Grobo "The Smallest Strongman", Shondu "The Human Corkscrew" and Slapleather Smith "The Most Devastatingly Accurate Sharp Shooter"

Batman notices that Grobo is spying on him and attempted to follow him before he can go alert anyone he might be working with but he looses him. He finds himself near a house of mirrors and decides that that must be where Grobo is hiding.

Batman takes of his disguise so that he's in his armour and fights a group of henchmen in the house of mirrors. After leaving he runs after Grobo again then finds two guys playing cards in a caravan so he dresses as Ra's and confirms that Ra's is in fact behind everything he then also takes out the two men in the caravans before being taken down by one of the clowns at the circus.

He wakes up in the main tent with the ringleader of the circus sat on a chair and Sireena the snake charmer standing next to him, I'm sure you know where this is going,

Sirenna then reveals herself to be Talia in a blonde wig, she asked Batman to join then who says no then her pet snakes start to try and attack Batman

Batman is then attacked by the sharpshooter from earlier but he throws an arrow into the barrel of the gun jamming it

He fights the contortionist then it turns out the the clown from earlier was Creeper. He tries to then go after St Lucifer thinking that he's Ra's but it turns out that Ra's has disguised himself as Grobo

Something falls in the tent and it sets on fire, Batman takes Talia and leaves the tent as Ra's just burns to deaths

Gordon is outside and Batman shows him Talia but then Gordon "shoots" Batman in the back but it does nothing because it's Batman and they just wanted a good cover for the comic. Batman explains how everything worked I won't type it all out so I'll put the explanation at the bottom of this post.

Batmans name is cleared and Bruce drops an epic diss on Ra's by calling his life an "a monumental waste of genius"

[superboy-tm]

Bruce runs sooo hot and cold--he was just telling Tim he'd do whatever to help with Tim's parents, now he's yelling at Tim to get him info and go home (back to school).

Batman (1940) #444