#batman 410
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dukeofthomas · 7 months ago
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I like you. Robin!Jason with a gun
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jasontoddinorder · 4 months ago
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Batman #410: Two Of A Kind
Released: August 1987 Written By: Max Allan Collins Pencils: Dave Cockrum Inks: Mike DeCarlo Cover By: Dick Giordano
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Part Two
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anonymousllama · 8 months ago
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Jason Todd you will always be famous to me
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jasontoddenthusiastt · 2 years ago
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Jason comic panels I adore.
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evasive-anon · 1 year ago
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This comic casually referring to Jason as a 5th grade dropout had me fucked up almost as hard as this kid dropping a line about graduating from the streets like it was his education section on MySpace in 2004.
From Batman The New Adventures #410 and #409 (1987).
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slightly-sad-sloth · 2 years ago
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Robin Redesigns; Jason Todd!
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Ft. Jason’s canon hatred of mimes bc it tickles me
As ever, click for non-potato quality
COMMISSIONS OPEN
Part 1 | Next
Text ID for sketch page;
[Sketch 1 - (Stayed up late to do homework)]
[Sketch 2 - Arrow pointing to Jason’s boots; Convinced Bruce they were practical cause if he got lost B could find him easier]
[Sketch 3 - Arrow pointing to smol Jason; the littlest of guys]
[Sketch 4 - Jason: An’ then she said mimes were better! Can ya’ believe that?!]
[Sketch 5 - Soul-less Ginger Ver.]
[Sketch 6 - Jason: That’s the ugliest car I’ve ever seen in my life. Two-face: It’s about to be a very short life, kid.]
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frogaroundandfindout · 5 months ago
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I’m just like you
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You are?
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You’re just like me
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There’s somewhere else we’d rather be
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Somewhere that’s ours
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Somewhere that dreams come true
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Yes, I am a girl like you
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batbaffle · 11 months ago
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hand on shoulder compilation ✨
and bonus:
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batbaffle · 11 months ago
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DC #574 (Bruce is talking to Leslie here BTW)
also:
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Batman #410 ("Mr. Wayne and his ward had hoped to attend")
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DC #571
Jason keeps up with Nascar and Major League Baseball as a guilty pleasure and nobody can tell me different. I don't remember the exact issue of robin jason playing baseball, but if anyone knows it, please comment below.
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reginalusus · 5 months ago
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I personally imagine Jason would never let go of the custom two-door Miata (it could be a Porsche 924 or Honda Prelude but I'm pretending it's a Miata) Harvey had back in the 80s. If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's under the cut.
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From Batman #410 - Two of a Kind (1987).
I think about this panel a lot.
Ko-Fi.
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aalghul · 5 months ago
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im soooo tired of batman comics from the 90s onwards screaming "jason todd wasn't dick grayson and that's what got him killed" at us when batman himself told dick that jason was too much like him.
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batman #410
they both devoted themselves so heavily to his mission that they defy his orders to save people. it was what made him say jason was just like dick back in jason's first post crisis story as robin, it makes sense if that's also what made him say it the first time dick confronted him about jason's death.
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New Titans #55
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dukeofthomas · 2 months ago
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A thing
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jasontoddinorder · 4 months ago
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Batman #410: Two Of A Kind
Part One
Part Two
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kindlingkeen · 7 months ago
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not ‘baby jason was a sweet little cherub, way easier to deal with than his predecessor’ or ‘baby jason was an unhinged murderchild imitating the violence he viewed as normal due to his poverty’ but rather ‘baby jason was a snarky, clever, extremely eager to please kid and when he was triggered he fought with everything he had to protect himself and others’
🤨 Did you sneak a peak at the outline for my baby Blue Jay AU that I keep pretending doesn’t exist, anon? Seems like you and I are on the same wavelength. Baby jason was a snarky, clever, extremely eager to please kid and when he was triggered he fought with everything he had to protect himself and others is exactly how I think of the little guy.
Canon actually supports this version of him. In fandom, the tire theft origin story gets a lot of attention, but the canon details of what came after are so important. After Bruce gets his tires back, he makes a deal with Jason not to turn him over to the cops or social workers if he goes to stay at Ma Gunn’s School for Boys (Batman #410).
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Turns out the school is a front for criminal activity.
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Jason nopes right outta there and gets picked up by Bruce again for boosting tires (Batman #411).
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Jason tells Batman about a plan to steal from the museum. Then Jason shows up to foil the crime himself because he didn’t think Batman believed him. It’s after this that Bruce takes him home.
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Bruce likes to talk about how he tried to put Jason on the right path, but really Jason’s heart was already there to begin with.
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jasontoddenthusiastt · 2 years ago
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Favorite Jason images
Batman #410
His eyes hold galaxies within them but still reflect such pure childhood innocence. Poor kid’s naïveté and trust are going to be subjected to so much exploitation in the upcoming issue and the future in general.
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Alfred having premonitions, Bruce projecting and not listening. Why is “child” in quotations … what is that supposed to imply? Despite Bruce’s niceness to Jason on the surface, he says some pretty hurtful things about him when Jason isn’t listening. While this perception does shift when Jason proves him wrong, he tends to swiftly rebound to his preconceptions at the first instance of disagreement between them (or even when Jason makes a valid argument).
No matter how much he told Jason he respects him and how he’s a smart kid, his notion that Jason has to be “corrected” definitely bled into their interactions. Jason running off in aditf wasn’t just as a result of their conflict within that story, it’s a culmination of all of these conflicting vibes he’s felt since he met Bruce. Fast forward to modern comics and he says these things to Jason’s face with the express intent of inflicting pain. Alfred has a point, Bruce … never too late to fine-tune your perspective.
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a-bad-case-of-the-stephs · 2 months ago
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How Batman uses the idea of those "born for" vigilantism to justify working with Teen Vigilantes before and after the death of Jason Todd, and what it has to do with Stephanie Brown.
(DISCLAIMER: I'm not trying to condemn the concept of child/teen vigilantes in superhero comics, its a staple of the genre and dumb to condemn it like you would in the real world. I'm analyzing the times in which Bruce Wayne the character has questioned the concept himself, and the rationalizations he comes to about it)
By examining Bruce Waynes mindset immediately before, during, and after Jason Todd's deadly time as Robin, we can see how Batman rationalizes and justifies teenaged vigilantism.
When Dick Grayson as Robin is shot by the Joker, Batman essentially fires him from being Robin. Bruce entirely dismisses the concept of working with a "child" to fight crime. Batman seems to believe working with Dick as Robin is simply too dangerous.
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Batman #408 (1940)
His Mindset at this point: Teenaged Vigilantism = Dangerous and Bad
But this, obviously, doesn't stick. It barely takes any time at all after this forBruce Wayne to take in Jason Todd and subsequently make him the second Robin.
Crime fighting with a 19 year old is too dangerous, but crime fighting with the 12 year old? Yeah, sure, why not!
There is an obvious contradiction, and a clear change in mindset.
In order to rationalize his choice to take in Jason Todd as Robin after firing Dick, Bruce Wayne must internally reendorse the concept of Teenaged Vigilantism. And he does so in a specific way:
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Batman #410 (1940)
Mindset: If Jason Todd was not Robin, he would become a criminal and die
The dying part is specific as well. When confronted at first by Alfred, its more of an afterthought, something which would occur down the criminal "road" Jason was bound to end up on. But when he is later confronted by Dick, the idea that being Robin "saved" Jasons life takes center stage.
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Batman #416 (1940)
It's no longer some distant crime related death Jason was on course for, it was an imminent death which Bruce was able to save him from.
Mindset: If Jason Todd was not Robin, his "self destructive energies" and lack of "self esteem" would have killed him.
This phrasing is SUPER interesting to me, because its not true in a very specific way.
1. Jason Todd wasn't really shown to have "Self destructive energies" before he became Robin. He was stealing to make a living, to stay alive. He never showcases a desire for "self destruction", unless you count his hitting Batman with a tire iron, and his interference in Ma Gunn’s heist. Which I don't.
2. It seems to imply Jason Todd might have died because of specifically "self destructive tendancies", which seems ascribes a small amount of passive potential suicidal ideation, which is also vastly unsubstantiated by anything we see from Jason before he becomes Robin. But you know who is a character who is deeply rooted in concepts of suicidal ideation? Batman. (I'm not going prove this point here, but this concept gets more firmly rooted in the upcoming years after this comic, Knightfall being a great example) Being Batman, Knightfall will establish, is pretty much all that keeps Bruce Wayne living. You could say that being Batman saved his life.
3. Bruce admits he took Jason on because he was lonely in this very same confrontation when Dick pushes him on this idea. This makes it abundantly clear why he needs this rationalization in the first place, his real reason for making Jason Robin appears to be somewhat selfish.
But what does this all mean? For one, it proves that Batman's primary explanation for why he took on Jason Todd is lowgrade BS. It also shows how Batman's rationalization has begun to veer into projection. He states that Jason was saved from his self destructiveness by becoming Robin, something that is certainly true for himself, but not really Jason.
We see this projection fully take root when Leslie Thompkins confronts Bruce. Not only is Jason Todd saved by becoming Robin, now he wasn't even chosen by Batman. It was, much like Bruce Wayne becoming Batman, inevitable. Something he was "born" to do.
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Detective #574
Mindset: I didn't chose Jason, he was chosen, he is just like me, we were born for this
This is essential. This mindset will show up again and again as a core part of Bruce's ability to rationalize working with child vigilantes once Jason has died.
Lets look at how his mindset has been evolving from before he meets Jason to his time as Robin progressing. Batman has gone from:
Teenage/Child vigilante Bad --> Child Vigilante Good because Jason would have become a crimial --> Child Vigilante Good because Jason would have died, I saved his life --> Child Vigilante is Good because I saved his life and Jason was meant to be Robin just like I was meant to be Batman, this is what we were was born to do
This is insane rationalization. But it works. For a while.
Then, Jason begins acting out, and putting himself in danger. Whoops. uh oh! How can Jason be saved by becoming Robin, if he is endangered by it? The balm for Bruce's semi-suicidal ideation was crime fighting, so if Jason is self destructive as Robin, does that mean Jason isn't like Bruce after all? Does that mean he wasn't born to be Robin? Was Bruce right in the begining? Is Teen Vigilantism Bad? Well, lucklily, the rationalization Bruce has built doesnt need to change too much in order to accommodate these new facts.
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Batman #426 (1940)
See, this issue has not reverted back to being child vigilantism, it's the fact that Jason isn't ready yet.
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Batman #426 (1940) / Batman #427
Batman latches onto this idea, he identifies it as "the problem". Is he wrong? No, not really. It does seem like Jason needs come to terms with his parents deaths. But this is important because it is still a rationalization for mindset he started with, still part of the reason he can be in favor of Teenage Vigilantism.
Then Jason Todd dies, as Robin. That truly breaks the underlying concept for this rationalization, that being Robin saved Jason Todd. The entire justification has fully shattered, and Bruce Wayne has lost a son. And, so because of this, in the wake of Jason Todds death, we see a full 180 revert back to the idea Bruce held onto at the end of Dick Graysons time as Robin: Teenage Vigilante = Bad.
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Batman #428/ The New Teen Titans #55 (1984) / Batman #439
He has fully rejected the very concept of working with anyone, including the now adult Nightwing. He is literally right back where we started, with even deeper convictions against working with someone else (especially a kid) ever again.
But we all know this doesn't stick. He takes on 13 year old Tim Drake as Robin not long at all afterwards. As the 90's progress Bruces goes on to work with a huge variety of other vigilantes and partners, both teenaged and adult.
So how does he possibly justify this?
I believe he retrofits his rationalization for taking on Jason as Robin.
He adheres to a primary idea. The idea that some people are, like him, simply built for Vigilantism. That they, much like he once believed Jason was, "born" for it.
Mindset: Child Vigilantle is not always Good, but it can be Good. When its the right kind of teenager. Some Teenaged Vigilantes are meant to be Vigilantes just like I was meant to be Batman.
In this way, Jason Todds tragic murder is not a failure of concept, it a category error. Batmans mistake was not working with a teenager, his mistake was working with the wrong kind of teenager. Jason Todd was not built for vigilantism. But others are. This means he's still totally in the clear to work with teenagers, Tim Drake as Robin, then Cassandra Cain as Batgirl, and then eventually Stephanie Brown as Spoiler. So long as Bruce is able to believe they are "born" for it, that they are like Batman himself, meant to do this, and incapable of living a normal life, there is no contradiction, his rationalization holds.
But where’s the proof?
This mindset can be clearly seen and prominently seen when Stephanie Brown is fired as Spoiler.
When Steph is fired as Spoiler because she has moved in Bruce's mind from the "acceptable Teen Vigilante" category into the "unacceptable Teen Vigilante category". And the reasons he gives for this decision are exactly in line with the rationalization I've lain out. She is consistently contrasted to other teen vigilante characters who are fit for duty because he does not see her as "like him/them".
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Detective #790
Notice how he jumps right from "Jason and Stephanie were/are not fit to fight crime" to "they could/can have a normal life" right to "unlike me and you, Cassandra Cain, who are stuck fighting crime forever". Much like how he originally justified his decision to work with Jason Todd as Robin through the idea that Jason and Bruce were both destined for this life, he applies the exact same idea, but this time, about himself and Cassandra Cain as Batgirl. And in contrast to them, and in directly comparison to Jason Todd, Stephanie is not meant for crime fighting.
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Batgirl #38 (2000)
And Stephanie Brown is contrasted with Cass again, when Bruce first explains why he fired Steph to Cass. This is a consistent pattern. She is not like Cass. This is why she shouldn’t be a vigilante.
When he explains that he is going to fire Steph as Spoiler to Tim, he says something very interesting which invokes the same idea. In the list of three reasons he throw out that Steph shouldn't be Spoiler, he mentions that she is going to "throw her life away". When taken in combination with the other panels discussed, its clear to me that he means this is the common way the saying is used. That she is wasting her life by being a vigilante, that she should, as he mentions earlier, be living a normal life. But why is he saying this to Tim? If one of the reasons Steph shouldn't be Spoiler is her ability to lead a normal life, why the fuck is Tim exempt? I think it comes from a genuine belief that Tim is "like him". Unable to live a normal, non-vigilante life, "born" for crime fighting. Much like Cass, who we already saw him directly compare himself to in this exact same way. Thats why he can directly reference to Tim Steph's ability to have a normal life as a reason she shouldn't be a vigilante, he doesn't believe Tim fits the same category at all!
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Robin #106 (1993)
So why the fuck does Stephanie move categories? She was acceptable earlier? What changed?
I've already done an in-depth explanation for what the subconscious underlying reason Bruce fires Stephanie: she simply is no longer useful to as a balm for his loneliness. I highly recommend checking out the post here if you are interested in the breakdown of why and how.
But in addition to that, it’s clear to me that it also has a weird amount to do with Jason Todd.
Stephanie simply and clearly reminds Bruce of Jason Todd. He points out their similarities in personality, and it’s worth mentioning the similarities in their circumstances as well (mothers who struggle(d) with drug addiction, and fathers who were criminals).
As we saw in Detective #790, their personality similarities led to Batman associating Steph with Jason. This makes sense, this association would only grow as he got to know her over the time she is sanctioned as Spoiler.
I believe this association leads to him eventually placing her in the same category as Jason, as not "born" for vigilantism at all, and as capable of having a normal life.
But it also serves as a clear way to rectify his mistakes with Jason. It’s his way of “making up for” his role in Jason's death. It’s his second chance. Never mind that this second chance leads to his assessment of Stephanie having very little to do with Steph herself, and a whole fucking lot to do about Bruce’s guilt over Jason’s death.
This is especially brutal because it seems to come from a place of genuine care (and a selfish desire to assuage his guilt too), but Stephanie doesn't get the tender moment of explanation and grief and regret that Cassandra hears. She doesn't get to know this.
What she gets, is to be told point blank that she is fired because she just isn't good enough. She gets to hear that she lacks the "skills and talent" from the same man who originally came to her to train her because he finally saw and recognized her potential. She gets told she will never be good enough by the guy who told her that she could learn and improve under his instruction. She gets two sentences. She has to fight for any more.
I cannot emphasize enough the fact that she had to track Bruce down to get an explanation for why he was suddenly ghosting her. He didn't even have the decency to tell her himself. Stephanie had to track Bruce down just so she could find out that he gave up on her.
Stephanie gets a blunt lie about why she is fired. And Bruce Wayne gets to feel good about "correcting" a mistake that had nothing to do with Stephanie. Stephanie gets cut off from her friends. Bruce Wayne gets to reconcile with his team. Stephanie gets to feel worthless. Bruce Wayne gets to feel justified.
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