#basically all of robb's victories

[thenotoriousscuttlecliff]

One pet peeve I have with battles in movies and TV shows is that they tend to be single engagements that are over in a matter of hours. I know a lot of it is to do with time and budget limitations, especially on TV series where battles are often confined to a single episode, but real battles can often last for days, weeks or even months. Which is why I'm excited for the Battle of Eregion because it has been described as something that is spread across multiple episodes and will last for days and take places across different fronts.

[jaehaeryshater]

After his victory in the War of the Five Kings, Robb Stark threw the tourney of 300 AC in Winterfell in celebration. Tourneys were previously not part of Northern tradition, but with the Riverlands and Vale of Arryn swearing fealty and becoming part of the North, Robb thought it best to show he was embracing their cultures as well. However, in honor of his late lord father’s personal convictions, Robb did not himself compete but rather merely hosted. He gave his favor to Theon Greyjoy, whom he held a certain affection for, by placing his crown upon his head (Lady Catelyn was aghast) and gave him to honor of jousting in his name.

commission by @sofikiii

Throbb Throbb Throbb Throbb Throbb Throbb

What if… you had a best friend… and she said “let me draw throbb for you”, wyd then? Thank you so so so much to sofia for doing this for me ^_^ I recommend everyone ever to commission her because she is so accommodating and hard working but more than anything else, she can easily capture the vision of what you’re describing.

I’m always so so so proud of both the artist for bringing my ideas to fruition, but also to a lesser degree myself for my designs bc I am always involved in basically every detail in every commission I pay for. I will say that Robb’s outfit was entirely sofia’s idea and I think it’s one of the better designs I’ve seen for Robb’s clothing ever :)). I was involved however, with all things Theon (as always, no surprise here). From his lance to his outfit. It’s all so Theon to me and I’m so grateful to sofia for listening to my pages and pages of meticulous text and references and how to depict Theon (ts is serious). He is so smug to get that crown but even more smug that he received that smile from Robb that he’s been frothing at the mouth for. Too smug to ask himself “is it gay to receive a man’s favor and getting what equates to an overly glorified kerchief?”

Mayhaps I will some day expand on this tourney because Robert Arryn threw the biggest tantrum of all time wanting to compete in the tourney, so Robb threw a mini one as well for Sweetrobin, Bran, Jojen, and Lyanna Mormont. Sweetrobin fell off his pony and had a stress induced seizure so that one had to be cancelled, but I would like to show everyone those four and their ponies one day.

[racefortheironthrone]

In a world where Robb Stark wins his war and manages to consolidate his realm, with the 7K being no more, lets assume he also annexes the northern crownlands too, what kind of council or burocracy would he establish to govern and how much of your economic development plans could he reasonably carry out in his lifetime and how could he unify his 2 realms economy into a cohesive unit?

In a Stark victory scenario, I think annexing the northern Crownlands would be an overstretch and something of a distraction from more important tasks (like bringing the Iron Islands and the Vale into his sphere of influence so that he can govern a geographically, economically, and politically coherent kingdom/coalition of northern Westeros).

To quote King Robb:

"Duskendale, on the narrow sea? Why would they go to Duskendale?" He'd shook his head, bewildered. "A third of my foot, lost for Duskendale?"

What matters in a brand-new Kingdom of the North is things like whether Gulltown accepts silver coins minted in White Harbor with Robb's face on them as valid payment for debts and taxes, or whether the Ironborn agree to keep their reaving south of Ironman's Bay, or whether the Stark navy can keep the Trident open all the way to the Bay of Crabs so that the Riverlands can keep trading directly with Braavos.

I did some back-reading through various economic development posts to see what I'd said in the past about the tricky scenario of how one balances the interests of multiple kingdoms in pursuing economic development. One of the things I'm noticing is that there are some reforms where there is real issues with competition/duplication of efforts (a Kingdom of the North can probably only support one Bank, one canal scheme, one sub-treasury system, one purchasing/marketing cooperative, etc.), some reforms where individual kingdoms can pursue their own goals but where there would be an issue about how the king balances the rewards he's doling out between the kingdoms (do you put your marginal dragon into winter schools and greenhouses for the North or church schools for the Riverlands or roads for the Vale?), and some where every kingdom can pitch in in a common effort (if there's going to be one sub-treasury plan, you're going to need a network of granaries along waterways from the Last River down to the Trident, the same information about how to improve agricultural productivity can be shared between the North, the Riverlands, and the Vale basically for free, etc).

That being said, one of the major political challenges of the Kingdom of the North was always going to be how you balance the interests of the component kingdoms and make everyone feel like the central government is giving them a fair deal and being attentive to their interests - and as you say, forging them into a cohesive economy would go a long way into doing that. So for example, one priority should be in working out reciprocity in trade between the newly-chartered cities. It certainly helps that a bunch of them (White Harbor, Gulltown, Maidenpool, Lord Harroway's Town, Saltpans) are along the same coast of the Narrow Sea or just upriver from the Narrow Sea, which makes close trade links more likely. However, you're going to want to make formal legal arrangements that, when it comes to port fees and staple fees and warehousing fees and the like, all of the North's cities agree to set them as low as possible for other Northern cities (if not an outright zollverein), and that burgher rights are transferrable between cities and that city ordinances will be honored by other cities, and so on.

In terms of "council or burocracy would he establish to govern," Robb was already taking a decent first step to bolster Lord Paramount Edmure Tully by appointing Brynden the Blackfish as Warden of the Southern Marches.

As I've written before, issuing city charters would be a crucial element of governing the Riverlands effectively. Giving Maidenpool, Lord Harroway's Town, Stoney Sept, Fairmarket, and Seagard a combination of economic and political self-governance would paradoxically allow King Robb to project royal authority more effectively - especially when it comes to generating revenue and manpower and enforcement of economic regulations.

[writingsofwesteros]

Fem!Robb x Tywin please! Those two are my secret crackship! Let's call him Robyn and she leads the Northmen and while not physically fighting, she's great at planning and strategies and wins them all the victories. She also agrees to marry Frey and on the wedding, Northmen are ambushed by Tywin but this time he promises to spare her mother and the rest of the Northmen from Red Wedding if she surrenders and marries him. She does and the two are married and Tywin is very scary and dominating and obsessed with her on their wedding night.

Maybe something like "I've never met a woman like you. Beautiful and smart, all in one. I knew I had to keep you." And she's basically his prisoner in King's Landing after they return and he isolates her and blackmail her (using her sisters and brothers lives as threats) to keep her submissive and he just LOVES fucking and breeding her?

Part 2:

Hey, I'm the Female Robb x Tywin one! Just to add a headcanon I have for them. Robyn is as meek and quiet as Alicent is with Viserys in bed, except Tywin forces her to orgasm and is very vocal in bed. Keeps telling her how tight and sweet she is. How she's gonna make a fantastic mother and basically baby traps her into falling in love with him?

Maybe a short extra smut in the one shot where Robyn tries to take moon tea and Tywin spanks her and promises to bed her twice as often (he already fucks her every night) to ensure she's pregnant? Please? I loved your Fem Daemon one! Please let me have my Robb x Tywin!! AN: Loved the idea and i hope you like this too xx

NSFW

It was for the good of her people, Robyn thought to herself as she shakily watched her now Lord husband move into the room. She knew it was thanks to him there would be no public bedding ceremony; the thought had long terrified her but she was still not calm. The thin, near see through night shift bore her to him completely. 

“I know this is not what you had planned, in many ways.” Tywin whispered over his shoulder. The fire burned beside them both; warming the room but still Robyn shook. She softly gulped as she clasped her hands behind her back. “I will make it good for you - better than any Frey could have.” The old lion promised darkly.

“Tywin…” She whispered out; softly gulping as he stalked closer. There was something in his eyes she couldn't describe as he so gently cupped your face. “I have wanted you for so long.” He purred his secret. The cat and mouse war games had only wet his appetite even more for the she-wolf. 

“So beautiful and smart…” Tywin continued to purr. His hand moved up and down her sides causing Robyn to gasp out even more. Gods, she knew it was coming but everything was happening so fast. It had not been two days since she was at her own wedding; one that never came to be.

His hands moved past the sides of her breasts. “You do not have to worry.” Tywin purred. His body brushed against her. His bare chest was more muscular than she had thought it was and she scolded herself for staring. The lion only chuckled as he leaned in; lips brushing before the kiss deepened. 

The sweet wolf whimpered against him but Tywin took the lead. He only grew harder at the thought of Robyn’s innocence; all she would know was him, he’d make sure of it. “Good girl.” He whispered, brushing their noses together before his tongue was forcing itself inside her hot mouth.

Her dark eyes were so wide as Tywin gently guided her back against the bed. He watched in delight as she fell back; bouncing with her soft breasts moving too. Fuck, he was too old for this. He should have had Robyn married to his son but they were all so useless. Tywin could only trust himself.

His greedy hands were soon on her as he began to crawl up the bed. His body hovering over Robyn’s sweet body. “Tywin…. “ She whimpered out some more as her breasts softly moved with her breathing. The lion did not listen as he leaned in; his hot mouth taking her clothed breast with his lips.

Robyn cried out as the new sensations moved through her body and had her arching from the bed. “Oh ..oh gods…” She whimpered out as his free hand moved towards her breast and began to palm her. “No Gods here, only me.” Tywin purred into her ear as he ripped the thin layer from her. 

His hands moved over her now bare body as he stared in near awe. Robyn was all his now. The thought alone had him smirking. “I’ll give you pleasure you’ve never known but I need to be inside you now.” She gently began to shake her head; gulping as Tywin’s hand tugged his own pants down.

“Shh, that’s it…you can take me.” Tywin purred. He moved up her body and nearly groaned when her soft, ample breasts brushed against his chest. “Oh, fuck..you are so tight.” He purred as his fat cock was slowly; inch by inch pushing inside her. Her hands moved onto his chest to push him away.

Her legs shook as the pain and pleasure moved through her mind. Robyn’s body shook as she reached for the sheets and tightened her grip on them. “Good girl..taking me so well, you were made for it.” Tywin purred; his thrusts still slow as he watched the erotic sight of her taking his cock.

“You have the body to be bred.” Tywin hummed. His hips rocking as his hands slowly moved over her body. He groped those ample breasts of hers and squeezed them; envisioning them filled with milk. “Good girl.” He purred and leaned closer. The action had his cock slipping deeper.

He watched in delight at how her face screwed up in pleasure. “Do you like this now?” Tywin cruelly teased; his thrusts quickening. The lion was not going to last long - but neither were you.

~

The sight of the wolf in his house colours only had Tywin becoming harder. Their argument the evening before for Robyn to see her family had ended with him fucking her from behind. His fingers stuffed in her arse with a threat of him taking her there. It had her soft for him, he thought it did anyway.

It seemed he’d underestimated his little wolf. “I thought I told you what a wonderful mother you would make.” He purred darkly into her ear. His hands roughly palmed on her now red arse as she whimpered prettily into his ear. The lion took no notice as he kept Robyn impossibly close against him.

“I think you want me to fuck you all day, every day.” Tywin purred; he bit into her neck and had her moaning out. His hand came down on her arse once more and the little wolf was trying to escape. “I will do…every morning and night …even more.” He whispered and soon he captured her soft lips.

Robyn moaned and whimpered; melting against him as her body still shook at the spanks he’d given her. His hand slowly fisted his cock; brushing his fat head against your clit that had you shaking even more. “You won’t see your family today…another punishment.” Tywin hummed just as she took him in.

Tywin was never going to allow her to see her family - but Robyn did not have to know this. She could blame herself as he made her bounce on his cock. Soon, she would be full of his heirs and all his. He licked up her chest as her head fell back. It seemed pleasure had unlocked something inside her.

She was addicted to it; to him even as the young wolf tried to escape it. “Good girl..that’s it.” His fat head brushed against her spongy spot time and time again until she was squirting around him. Still, Tywin did not stop. He only thrust harder and faster; his hold on her side only tightening.

[wearenorth]

Sansa's main reason why the North should be independent is that "The Northmen had suffered too much to ever accept the rule of an outsider again". Ok, but if you look closely, the Starks are basically the sole reason why the North suffered:

It was Lyanna Stark who ran away with Rhaegar (not hate on them, but technically that's the only narrative we can go with till GRRM gives the full story) and that, as a lot of people like to say, is the reason why Robert's rebellion started.

It was Brandon Stark who came to the Red Keep for Rhaegar "to come out and die" - Bradon openly, for everyone to hear, threatened the crown prince - mad king or no, look from whatever angle you want, that's a treason.

It was Rickard Stark who chose trial by combat thinking that he will fight someone from the Kingsguard - that's via Jaime Lannisters sort of a testament.

It was Ned Stark who rallied the North and joined Robert's rebellion leading thousands to death.

It was Ned Stark who chose to finish the war by going to lift the siege of the Storm's End.

It was Ned Stark who went to the Tower of Joy with 7 other lords from the North and chose to fight the Kinsguard. A fight that left only him and Howland Reed alive.

It was Ned Stark who decided to ignore the warning from the deserter from the NW about white walkers and his upcoming future.

It was Ned Stark who agreed to Joffrey-Sansa's marriage proposal as well as agreed to become Hand of the King and go to the South.

It was Ned Stark who made many mistakes, trusted the wrong people and ignored Cercei's warning - some of the reasons for his imprisonment.

It was Sansa Stark who ran to Cercei and told her all Ned plans - though this was cut out from the show.

It was Catelyn Stark that ordered for Tyrion to be arrested and brought to justice - which led to the Lannisters taking this as a slight and threat for them.

It was Sansa Stark who wrote a letter to Robb and most likely Catelyn too letting them know about Ned's imprisonment and supposed treason, as well as the one who called her family traitors for her own survival.

It was Robb Stark that rallied the Northern lords and raised his army and led them into battles, because Ned was imprisoned.

It was Robb Stark that sacrificed nearly 2000 men for the victory.

Though it was Robb who needed alliance with the Freys, it was Catelyn Stark who brokered this alliance on shity terms.

It was Robb Stark who demanded that Lannisters would recognise the North as an independent kingdom - something that Lannisters would never do.

It was Robb Stark who left the North mostly defenseless and who sent Theon to deal with the iron borns - which lead to their invasion to the North, Winterfell and most keeps to the west to be taken.

It was Robb Stark who broke alliance with the Freys by marrying Talisa.

It was Catelyn Stark who created discord among the North - Riverlands army by realising Jaime Lannister, which also led to Rickard Karstarks disobedience and his men's departure.

It was Robb Stark's justice that led for the remaining Karstarks to join Boltons on the Starks quest on taking back the North.

It was Robb Stark's mistakes that lead to majority of the northerners either refuse or ignore the Starks call on their quest on taking back the North.

It was Sansa Stark who demanded that the northern lords would fight for them and was refused (for example, Lord Glover).

It was Sansa Stark who didn't say anything about the Knights of the Vale and let nearly all combined army of northerners - wildlings to die - that's about 3000 men (since Boltons had about 6000 men and Ramsay said that Jon's army is half the size). But nobody seems to care about that.

It was Sansa Stark, influenced by Littlefinger, who did nothing to stop discord among the northern lords during the time Jon spent in the South. Actually, you can see how Sansa reeps benefits from it.

It was Jon Snow who decided to tell Cersei that he already bent the knee to Daenerys during peace negotiations with the Lannisters.

When Daenerys came to the North to fight for the living, it was Sansa Stark who disrespected Dany the most.

It was Sansa Stark who basically dismissed everyone's sacrifices after the Long Night.

It was Sansa Stark who broke the oath sworn in front of the Heart Tree by telling Tyrion about Jon's real parentage - what started the conspiracy to overthrow Dany. Technically, Sansa started another Dance of the Dragons.

It was Sansa Stark who wanted the northern army to "rest", instead of marching south for Daenerys.

It was Sansa Stark who brought "ten thousands northerners" to fight for Jon, who was imprisoned in the Red Keep, meaning she was ready to send thhem to fight (how she got those numbers still baffles me, cause in season 7 it was stated that northern army has fewer than ten thousands men and with with casualties from the Long Night, where everyone lost half their armies, the northern army is even smaller or maybe they didn't fight in the Long Night then).

And it was Sansa Stark who doomed the North to starvation and poverty by declaring themselves independent and by cutting all ties and help from the Iron Throne and other kingdoms. For example, there will be no one to regulate trade for 6 Kingdoms and the North, meaning that The Reach or the Vale can sale food for a bigger prices than to other regions, if the IT interferes, they'll side with 6 Kingdoms - the seller, cause the North is no longer the IT subject. And it's very well known that the North isn't rich.

Actually if you look in the history of the North while Targaryens ruled from the Iron Throne, you would see that the North had some minor conflicts, but still lived in peace. Probably, the only exception is how Cregan Stark rallied the "Wolves of winter" when he came to aid the Blacks near the end of the Dance of the Dragons.

[aegor-bamfsteel]

Hi there, I have a relatively innocuous question regarding Ser Hugo Vance:

“Jaime concentrated on the fare before him, tearing off chunks of bread with his left hand and fumbling at his wine cup with his right. He watched Addam Marbrand charm the girl beside him, watched Steffon Swyft refight the battle for King's Landing with bread and nuts and carrots. Ser Kennos pulled a serving girl into his lap, urging her to stroke his horn, whilst Ser Dermot regaled some squires with tales of knight errantry in the rainwood. Farther down the table Hugo Vance had closed his eyes. Brooding on the mysteries of life, thought Jaime. That, or napping between courses.”

Jaime IV, AFFC

Basically, what is the significance of Hugo, whose family fought for Robb Stark and presumably lost men at the Red Wedding, casually having a kip during the feast at castle Darry?

Along with his brothers, Hugo is called a “friend and companion” to Edmure (who prefers their company to Catelyn’s). Even though all his brothers have survived, Catelyn sees Black Walder hamstring a Vance at the Red Wedding, so you’re right, it sounds like he’s at least lost relatives. His father, Norbert, had squired with Brynden Tully and offered to parley with him. It sounds like they have a personal connection with House Tully and don’t want to see them come to harm.

I think Hugo closing his eyes is a deliberate contrast to the cheerful Westerlands men (and Dermot, also in Joffrey’s service) who came to pacify the Riverlands. The Vances may be welcomed back to the king’s peace, but they’re not joining in the festivities at Darry. Jaime Lannister says: “Our new friends are no friends at all. Their loyalty goes no deeper than their skins…” (AFFC Jaime V). He knows that men like the Vances aren’t truly happy to have bent the knee as opposed to the victorious Westerlanders. It could be interpreted as a sign of disrespect (like some of the Dornish nobles refusing to drink to King Tommen) or even Jaime’s first reaction about Hugo brooding was more correct (they are in a Riverlands castle the Lannisters basically stole by killing its last lord and marrying one of their cousins off to a distant relative. And they’re joining the siege against their liege lord/close friend. I’d be brooding over this situation too).

Or it could be Hugo is just tired from days on the march. Either way, he’s not in the mood to party.

[rise-my-angel]

my father is rewatching GoT and is on s8 (💀) and i have to have a little rant about jon's character assassination because like

he shot mance rayder, who is the enemy at that moment in time, to spare him a painful and lony death to fire. he did this knowing it disobeyed the king, that he might be punished with treason, because it was the right thing to do. even when his own brothers disoneyed and killed him, he gave them a merciful and quick death by hanging/the sword because it is the honourable thing to do - the man who passes the sentence must swing the sword.

so you're telling me that when varys is charged with treason (which is a whole other level of ridiculousness that first of all varys would conceive such an obvious and shit plan, and secondly that he would be caught mid attempted "usurp") jon just stands and watches varys burn to death???? to allow the person passing the sentence to not swing the sword, to die brutally in perhaps the most painful way possible, the way that killed his grandfather and uncle, the way he refused to let mance be killed, the way he was disgusted with shireen's fate???? to not even try to stop it or say words????? to let all his morals go because he is supposedly that pussy-whipped (by his aunt 🤮🤮🤮)?????

i just don't understand how the writers just let that happen???? like?????

Jon doesn't step in because he just has NO agency. If they were smart, they'd have established that Jon is trapped because Dany is forcing him to her side because she has dragons that could kill him, his family and burn his Kingdom alive. But they didn't so Jons motivations and lack of action is confused.

Stannis in season 5 asks Jon about Mance Rayder, "You admire him?" But Jon corrects him by saying "I respect him." Jon did not admire Mance, not did he approve of what Mance has done in attacking the Wall. Jon understands WHY but he does not approve how but still went publically against a Kings orders and mercy killed Mance to spare such a horrible death. Execution via burning alive is literally how his uncle and grandfather were murdered by the Targaryeans and I suspect that had a heavy impact on the way Jon views using cruelty in punishment.

Now, yes, Jons done something similar. During the battle for Castle Black, to force the Wildling army from getting up on top of the Wall, Jon uses barrels of oil to send shooting down and explosions thusly set those men on fire. It's a horrible way to die, but the difference is necessity. Up on the Wall is basically a bottleneck. A small space with little escape and getting into hand to hand combat up there is a death sentance for the Nights Watch. Ensuring they stay down below with explosions of oil fire is literally the only way Jon can prevent his brothers being cornered up there in a slaughter.

The same way we see Robbs first victory in battle was won because he distracted the Lannister forces by sending two thousand men to be slaughtered by Tywins forces. It is a horrible death he sent a lot of good men into, but in the actual field of battle, Robb and Jon both know that safe and clean ways do not win wars. They know the enemy is coming at them here and now with a blood lust and they have to make drastic decisions to prevent that. Jon isn't opposed fire in general, he is opposed to using it in cruel manners on purpose. He knows violent measures need to take place to fight back against forces who are actively set to slaughter Jons own men. War is horrific but Jon is never proud of himself for what he does. He never takes praise for the violence he has to commit to protect his people.

And specifically, executing men in Jons eyes, should never be cruel. He grew up watching his father execute men in the cleanest way possible. Taking a mans head looks violent, but one clean stroke of a sword is actually a faster, and least cruel death men in his position could provide. It means they do not linger in such horrific pain. Even hanging is not meant to be torture. When you hang a man, the goal literally is for their necks to break, and it is not intended that they end up suffocating to death. It happens, but it is not a method of execution intended to cause them pain. The intention is their neck snaps and the death is quick.

Now, season 8 Jon learns that Dany burned alive a father and son for standing up for what they believed in. He also learns, this father and son, was the father and brother of Sam, someone whom is literally like a brother to Jon. And the script has him defend it, as if Jon would ever justify that. As if Jon would ever not be horrified that his best friend and pesudo brother had his father and brother murdered by the daughter of the Targaryean who murdered Jons uncle and grandfather, in the exact same way. He would be horrified beyond belief and at that point would probably keep Sam, Gilly, little Sam and his brother and sisters as far from Dany as humanly possible.

Ignoring the events leading up to Varys's execution because how he ends up being caught makes no sense, Varys is so much smarter then that but then again Petyr Baelish literally died on his knees getting his throat cut in the middle of the fucking meeting hall without getting his final words out like he was a slaughtered lamb, so why would I expect Varys's death makes any more sense.

But, that aside, that is literally the point Jon leaves. Even if Jon does not intervene because he knows Dany might just have her dragons kill Jon then and there if he tried to do the same to spare Varys, he would leave. He would never stick around, he would take what men he had with him and leave then and there. I can believe that in the situation of man vs dragon, Jon understands that if he mercy killed Varys, he would not got the Stannis treatment. Stannis brought him into his office, lectured him for a few minutes, gave him advice, showed him funny hatemail and then offered him literally everything Jon wanted growing up.

I can beleive Jon not intervening in Varys's death because he knows Dany and her dragons will not let that go unpunished the way Stannis did. What I cannot beleive is him siding with her still. Or siding with her willingly in the first place, but I digress.

Also Varys's plan literally hinged in replacing Dany with Jon. They want to tell me Jon would not feel immense guilt for a man being executed in the most brutal way possible on his behalf? Jon not wanting the Iron Throne is in character, Jon allowing suffering to fall upon people he knows for the sake of his claim to the Iron Throne is not in character.

Jon would be running back home back North, putting literally everyone on fucking lock down. Also do not remind me that Jon was literally written to be that whipped for his AUNT. Do not remind me that Jon's character was assasinated for the sake of getting him to fuck a woman whom not only would be heavily dislike and be morally opposed to, but also a woman whom he is related to in the exact same way Jon thought he was related to his mother.

They did not give a single shit about Jon in those final two seasons. Just have him do whatever helps Dany, because he is literally no more important then glorified arm candy.

I'm shocked they actually him kill her at the rate they were going (not that the scene was even remotely satisfying like yeah I wanna watch a nephew make out with his AUNT before he kills her like who asked for this, Jon would not kiss this genocidal mass murderer are you kidding?)

[duxbelisarius]

“I mean, by your logic why didn’t Laena and Rhaenyra get the kids married earlier when they first agreed to betroth them? Because there’s no need to get the kids hitched that young, that’s why.“

The issue here being that Baela and Jace remain unmarried during the war, despite Baela’s stated intentions of marrying Jace. And now that the show seems to have decided to age up Rhaenyra and Daemon’s kids, it makes even less sense for them to remain unmarried.

“And it was the presence of Cregan’s massive northern army that contributed to the powerful Green seats of Storms End, Casterly Rock and Oldtown deciding not to keep fighting.”

The Northern Armies had nothing to do with this; the Westerlands was unable to continue fighting because of Dalton Greyjoy; Lyonel Hightower either chose Samantha Tarly’s ‘nookie’ over his father’s cause or was forced to choose peace by the Tyrells threatening his brother Garmund; and Elandra Baratheon chose to cease hostilities after receiving word of Borros’ death at the Kingsroad. If Cregan had had his way, these houses would have been forced to CONTINUE the war as he sought to raze their seats and crush their remaining armies.

“And yeah, the 14-year-old made some military mistakes. If you want a story where everything goes smoothly and perfectly and there’s no tragedy, then idk go watch a disney movie I guess. Do you think ASOIAF is stupid for the mistakes Robb Stark made, or do you think its tragic and compelling?“

Considering one of the great military leaders of the Dance is LITERALLY 13 years old, this argument has little weight. Even if we assume that Jace was 14 and thus couldn’t be relied upon to make proper decisions, Corlys Velaryon also comes off as a complete moron for the same reasons as Jace does. Providing basic screening and security for your naval forces doesn’t require you to be Sun Tzu or Alexander the Great; you just have to want to ensure that you aren’t surprised by enemy forces, esp. ones that you know are there because your step brother arrived a few days ago at least on a dying dragon, warning you of impending attack. I fully expect characters to make mistakes; my issue is when the writer themselves appears unaware that a mistake was made, or actively appears unaware of inconsistencies within their own story. I’m not asking for or expecting perfection, just a bare-minimum of quality control. 

“It’s a war where dragons turn the tide, so having more dragons on your side is a good idea. Especially when the other side has Vhagar.“

I’m going to plug my own analysis that I’ve done of the Dance now, so that you know I’m not just some rando that decided randomly to complain about ASOIAF today. The issue with this argument is that the war isn’t won by dragons at all, and the side with the most dragons only uses them en masse twice in the entire conflict. George goes out of his way to set-up the dragons as a giant chekhov’s gun, but then proceeds to do nothing with them; he gives Rhaenyra most of the Reach as allies, but has Daemon sit on his butt at Harrenhal when supporting Rowan and Caswell could easily have delivered victory to the Blacks before the war even got into full swing. Instead Daeron single-handedly saves the entire Green war effort at the Honeywine, because apparently it never occurred to the Blacks that the region with the largest agricultural production and the biggest armies might warrant greater attention?

“With Lord Manderly there had been a promised alliance with House Targaryen before that didn’t pan out due to Viserra’s death,“

But we have no evidence that Jace is aware of this, in fact it is Lord Manderly who in forms HIM of the prior arrangement with Viserra; so we’re still left with Jace going over the head of Cregan Stark to negotiate directly with his bannermen, despite the difficult situation this could create for Cregan if he didn’t fall in line with his bannerman. 

“Munkun’s True Telling says that Cregan and Jacaerys took a liking to each other, for the boy prince reminded the Lord of Winterfell of his own younger brother, who had died ten years before. They drank together, hunted together, trained together, and swore an oath of brotherhood, sealed in blood.“

You conveniently leave out the part where this is Munkun’s theory, not a 100% factual account of events; Gyldan does state that it’s more likely than the account of Septon Eustace and Mushroom’s tale of Sara Snow, but it is not presented as THE account of Jace’s meeting with Cregan, just the one that Gyldan deems to be most plausible. As to Bennard Stark, he is described as ‘slow’ to relingquish his power and imposing ‘limits’ on Cregan’s power; if he had usurped him, he never would have given up any of these powers to begin with. This may seem like splitting hairs but it’s by no means explicit that Bennard was trying to deny Cregan his birthright altogether. It would be nice to get more info about this whole affair, but we’re left with only F&B and TWOIAF, which offers little beyond.

“Also, seriously, George ignored inworld prejudice so he could have the story his way? It’s his story! He wrote it to critique that prejudice! There’s this book series you may have heard of called A Song Of Ice And Fire, it’s really good, one of the main characters is called Jon Snow-“

In this case, yes, he absolutely did ignore the prejudice against bastards that he previously established in his own works; the fact that more than half the realm aligns itself with Rhaenyra without any qualms or misgivings about the widespread and well-supported rumours of her own heirs bastardy is proof positive. At least in the animated histories made for Game of Thrones, they give Rhaenyra’s sons white Valyrian hair, so it’s understandable why the Greens claims of bastardy would be doubted. Instead, Fire and Blood and now HOTD make it clear that Joff, Jace and Luke were illegitimate; I’m not saying that I agree with the prejudice against Bastards in ASOIAF, I’m saying that George did not consistently apply it in the case of the Dance, as doing so would have interfered with his intentions for the story. If telling a story requires you to blatantly contradict your own previously established world-building, it means you need to rethink or recalibrate your approach to telling that story. 

“Well if Rhaenyra has no Arryn traits, and Rhaenys’ children have no Baratheon traits, and Alicent’s children have no Hightower traits, and Jaehaerys son of Alyssa Velaryon is the whitest old man I’ve ever seen, then maybe genetics are just too weird in this universe to draw any conclusions.”

Then I guess Ned Stark was just a wacko for challenging Joffrey Baratheon’s parentage, as were Jon Arryn and Stannis Baratheon? I guess Lynesse and Alerie Hightower having blonde/silver hair is of no significance here?

“'Viserys is a terrible father’ yes in many ways but tbh considering he’s half a corpse, terminally ill and high on milk of the poppy I cut him some slack. Also consider that Laenor claimed the sons as his own, and that very early on in the book Rhaenyra and Laena arranged for their kids betrothals. Since Laenor and Laena have a claim to the throne in their own right, appeasing the Velaryons by supporting Jace and Baela as the future King and Queen is actually a good move to make things right after Rhaenys was passed over.“

Robert Baratheon claimed his children by Cersei; doesn’t make them any less illegitimate than they are. Nor can you cite Fire and Blood and then try to use show canon to support your claims; Viserys was not as afflicted in the books as he was in the show, and still ignored Rhaenyra’s obvious lying and deceit to the detriment of the realm, and in the show he STILL does so. Once again, the only reasons she can assure her sons that their bastardy doesn’t matter is because her father and the writers shield her from the consequences of her actions. This is perfectly encapsulated in the show by Rhaenyra telling Luke that she will help prepare him for ruling Driftmark just like her father helped her. And yet we never see Viserys helping Rhaenyra to rule, or we never see that it resulted in her being ready to rule. She insists that they boys need not worry, just as Jace insists to Luke that there bastardy doesn’t matter; but neither Rhaenyra nor Jace can truly back-up their claims. 

“It makes perfect sense for half the realm to support Rhaenyra, because she does have a claim, and in the book had been training for the role since she was 8 and has 5 sons to follow her. Laenor was only a baby when they voted against him.“

Laenor was 7 and had already claimed a dragon by the time of the Council of 101; the council denying him his claim on account of it deriving from his mother was unjust, but that makes it less likely and not more likely that those same lords and their descendants would suddenly support Rhaenyra’s claim over Aegon’s. 

“I love it, but if you don’t like that, if you think its poorly written, then you are entitled to that opinion. But I don’t get why you’re putting yourself through engaging with his work when you could find a more conservative book series more to your liking.“

You are correct to state that George wrote his books the way he did to critique those ideas, and I don’t take issue with that at all. I take issue with him actively ignoring the world-building that he established in his previous works in order to sell us a bad, nonsensically written faux history. I’m taking issue with what George has written in Fire and Blood because I LIKE his other works like ASOIAF and the Dunk and Egg stories. I’m critical of George’s work here because I find it inferior to his other work; it’s his fault for setting such a high standard with his previous work, and then resorting to such inferior, subpar writing standards for F&B. 

I don’t hate women, or illegitimate children, or POCs, or whatever claims you want to throw at me because I have a different opinion than you on a set of fictional characters. I dislike bad story-telling; simple as.

Team Green: Sorry your faves are boring 😊🤷‍♂️ Sure you're supposed to root for the Blacks but the Greens are just more fun. Jace is boring I'm here for my angsty disaster mess 💚

You realise that's bad writing, right? This is a family civil war drama. One side of that family civil war shouldn't be populated with blank slates. If no effort is made into making Rhaenyra and Daemon's children as fleshed out as Alicent's children then that is bad writing.

Some people find the Lannisters more fun than the Starks, but the Starks are still fleshed out characters (and considering in the books Jace is 14/15, Luke is 13, Joffrey, Baela & Rhaena are 12, Aegon the younger is 9 and Viserys is 7 - these kids ages almost map straight onto the Starklings so they were so meant to be our Targlings). It didn't have to be a zero sum "you can only have ONE side that's interesting". The show is poorer for it. Game of Thrones was a disaster in many ways, but at least the different sides of the conflict had equal screen time and attention.

How hard would it have been to flesh out Jace, or at least give him a half-decent haircut? He could have been a mirror to Jon Snow (they technically have the same initials). One is a bastard who does not know he's a targaryen prince, the other is a targaryen prince who discovers he is a bastard. In a world that hates bastards, that insists they are 'wanton and treacherous by nature', there was plenty of potential to explore some complicated emotions, to give weight to how he feels about being a bastard. The whispers that would have followed him, the scrutiny he would have felt, the internalised guilt and shame, his protectiveness over his little brothers and wish to spare them the truth. Maybe after Alicent confronted Aegon over the pig there could have been a shift where Aegon turns his bullying away from Aemond and towards Jace (more in keeping with book canon). Maybe Jace could feel anxious about lessons with Criston Cole due to his open hatred of him. Maybe he could be equal parts devoted to and resentful of his mother over his parentage, maybe he could be driven to perfectionism to prove himself worthy.

The show made Jace more violent in the fight with Aemond than in the book, by changing who started the fight (from Aemond to Rhaena and co.), by narrowing the age gap to make Jace more of a match for Aemond, and by having him draw a knife instead of a wooden toy sword. But they didn't earn that moment. How much more satisfying would it have been if both Aemond and Jace were given equal emotional weight in the build-up to the fight? If the hurt and anxiety at discovering he was a bastard had been building and building until it burst out. The entire reason the show changed the age dynamic between Rhaenyra and Alicent to make them peers and best friends was supposedly to make their conflict more dramatic - why would you then drop that approach with their kids? How does it make the civil war story better if one half of the next generation of characters aren't really characters?

They didn't even have to put much effort into Baela, as GRRM already had her brimming with personality on the page, but they just... ignored that and made her a non-entity. Oh she gets one punch in, and there's a blink and you'll miss it background shot of her trying to hit Aegon (at this point I don't think the actors were even directed to do that I think they just took it upon themselves). Meanwhile Baela in the books is wild and fearless and deliberately provocative and quick to anger and fiercely defensive of her loved ones and wrestles squires in the training yard and has a pet monkey and sneaks out in search of adventure and brings home 'unsuitable' friends. Including a legless beggar, a blacksmith's apprentice whose muscles she admired, a street conjurer, twin prostitutes and an entire troupe of mummers. And she alarms everyone due to being 'overly fond of boys' and gets epic lines like this when it is suggested she marry Lord Rowan:

“I’ve bedded two of his sons. The eldest and thirdborn, I think it was. Not both at once, that would have been improper.”

She could have been an absolutely chaotic presence onscreen. Rhaena meanwhile is a little more like Sansa to Baela's Arya, but would have needed more work to flesh her out onscreen. Her insecurities and wish for a dragon seemed promising at first, but they were dropped as soon as Aemond lost his eye. Because that was ultimately the narrative purpose she served - to provide a new reason for the fight to start that wasn't Aemond hitting and pushing a toddler into a pile of dragon poo. She helps Aemond's image by being the one to start the fight instead of him, and from then on she becomes a voiceless non-entity. We watch Aemond fly away victoriously on Vhagar, we don't see Rhaena tearfully watching the last link to her mother vanish over the horizon.

Considering the prominent role of bastards during the dance (especially the dragonseeds), the uninterest in exploring bastardy in Jace makes little sense. Considering the centrality of gender to the story (and considering a certain event involving key players during the dance), the lack of effort into Baela and Rhaena makes zero sense (the show doesn't even bring up their right to Driftmark in an episode dedicated to discussing the rightful heir to Driftmark).

Considering especially that in fantasy black women are so often consigned to minor Missandei roles, the fact that we were robbed of Baela and Rhaena as main characters particularly stings. Baela in particular was an easy fan favourite in the book, and its a role that black women and girls so rarely get to play. If you had told me before the show that Helaena would be a fan favourite over Baela, I wouldn't have believed it. And don't get me wrong, I like that they fleshed out Helaena in the show, like Rhaena she didn't have much of a presence in the book. But it is so typical that the relative non-entity that they kept white gets to be fleshed out, while the more fleshed out character that they made black becomes a non-entity. And Helaena is skinny now, of course (all love to Phia Saban, but I am mourning plump Helaena).

And don't get me started on Kylo Raemond.

[templaeris]

Did you hear? [ KALSTEN ‘KAL’ ULFHART ] is in town. A [ HUMAN ], I hear that they’re a [ TEMPLAR LIEUTENANT ], rather impressive considering they’re [ TWENTY-EIGHT ] years old. Their friends say that they’re pretty [ DEPENDABLE ], but I’ve heard rumors that they’re also [ UNYIELDING ]. It might just be me, but they remind me of [ A TORN FAMILY CREST, SCRATCHES ACROSS A LEATHER PLATE, OATHS MUTTERED UNDER THE OAK ]. I wonder what side they’ll choose in the upcoming conflict.

—  𝙱𝙰𝚂𝙸𝙲𝚂

full name: kalsten ulfhart, fourth of his name

nicknames: kal, kalion (for his siblings-in-arms in the order)

age: 28

species: human

gender / pronouns: cis man ,  he  /  him

orientation: bisexual

occcupation: lieutenant in the templar order, itching for that promotion

region of origin: frosthold, a bastion on the outreaches protecting wintervale

current place: traveling the land with his regiment

—  𝙿𝙷𝚈𝚂𝙸𝙲𝙰𝙻 𝙰𝙿𝙿𝙴𝙰𝚁𝙰𝙽𝙲𝙴

eye colour: light brown

hair colour: tawny

build: hale

height: 6′3″

piercings: all removed, as befits a servant of the people

tattoos: four, one to mark each major victory of their battalion

distinctive features: battle scars, warrior’s braid

face claim: leo suter

—  𝙼𝙰𝙶𝙸𝙲

excuse me????

— 𝙸𝙽𝚂𝙿𝙸𝚁𝙰𝚃𝙸𝙾𝙽𝚂

 alaric (da:o), cousland (da:o), red hawke (da2), cullen (da:i), kaladin (storrmlight archives), lamorak (arthurian legends), bjorn ironside (vikings), robb stark (asoiaf), jon connington (pre-asoiaf), lan (wheel of time)   

—  𝙳𝙴𝚃𝙰𝙸𝙻𝚂

full backstory tbd pending player discussions but !!! the brunt of things is:

raised in a very family, duty, honour environment, with strict precepts about what the world should look like and how men should behave in it under the law of their Gods

obviously magic was a no go because the Ulfharts are just Boring™ and repressed like that, so he learned to suspect anything out of the ordinary and committed himself to rooting it out - not from fear or even genuine hatred, but as a sort of mercy killing in the hope that it will return erethide to the way it was before

this whole ‘holy soldier’ upbringing routine really left both his worldview and his self-perception narrow as all fucks

seriously, this man has had a grand total of ( 3 ) experiences and they’re all related to direct combat

he’s good at fighting tho

like, seriously good at fighting 

when he was young he though the could coast by on battle prowess alone, what with frosthold being a military enclave and all, but he soon realised he couldn’t hack it at politics and stomach the compromises being an heir entailed (like, talking to elves? reaching agreements with mages? no thank you)

his family practically did him the good favour of ushering him off to the templars before he could cause a civil scandal

he’s been there for the past ? 8 years almost ? in that time, he’s been forced to actually develop other branches of his few precious braincells, like administrative skills (hard running a company) and subtlety. basically, all the commanding traits required to bring his men under heel when necessary

he sees the order as his true family, as he could never really connect with his parents (the ulfharts haven’t communicated an emotion since divinity still walked the earth)

don’t ask him about his younger brother

seriously, don’t

probably dislikes rich people and greater nobles, whom he sees as overly fond of a little thing called power abuse, and is generally a champion of the people provided they’re wiling to follow the Gods and renounce magic (yikes bro) 

did i say repressed???? well i’m saying it again

—  𝙿𝙻𝙾𝚃 𝙿𝙾𝙸𝙽𝚃𝚂

something to shake his confidence in the order!!!!! (BIG VIBES)

a mage saving his life/saving someone close to him/unlikely allies for a greater cause

a catalyst incident that forces him to be the saviour, not in that vague templar way but actually risking his life on his own for a purpose he may not even be certain of

family reunion!!!!

frosthold childhood friends reunion!!!!!

being forced to go back to frosthold to defend something/someone!

strange darkling tidings?????? whispers on the horizon?? the order asking him to go in search for answers to a scholar that might know more about this danger?

battle companions who have seen the best and worst in one another and decide to stand together because of it, not despite :’)))) (i’m weak for 1 trope and 1 trope only okay)

“there was only one bed”

he wouldn’t exactly nosedive headfirst into a torrid affair because he’s just not that Hot Boy Summer type, but I would love to have something/someone that might endanger his dedication to the Order

[honestgrins]

Gendrya; they have a snowball fight with all of the starks and friends, gendrya are a team, he gets obsessed in making the best snow fort/barrier and all arya wants to do is throw snowballs at people so he gives her the ammo and shes the machine gun basically. I hope that made sense. Also it can be a years later thing in canon or an au, your choice :)

All's Fair || Gendrya

"Reload!" Arya comes sliding through the low gap in the snow-packed wall, the ice slick with how often she's made the trek. She pops quickly back to her feet, her smile bright and flush with excitement. "You make the best fort," she crows.

Smiling, Gendry lets her tug him down to her level and accepts a cold kiss to his cheek. "Yeah, it's fun. And your brothers can't exactly make good on any of those polite threats they keep making if I'm back here, so that's alright."

Her eyes roll automatically, but he can see the fondness behind her annoyance. "They're all talk," she promises, only for her mouth to twist up in a grimace. "Except Rickon, I would definitely not get within biting range of that one."

"He doesn't leave that to you?" She bites the shoulder of his borrowed parka for that, and he's tempted to toss her into the nearest snowdrift in retaliation. "Come on, we're supposed to be on the same team. Grab your ammo and get."

"Maybe I want to stay here with you." Her hands slide under his coat, the frozen shell of her gloves pressing against his stomach. When he yelps and tries to get away, her grip turns sharp with mischief. "You did build this great fort for us, and I haven't had a chance to enjoy it at all."

Gendry knows it would be stupid to let her drag him down into the snow, in the open, with her family just on the other side of the wall. Another part of him has been craving some time just for them, and his brain swims in the knowledge they could probably hide out here until dinner. His first visit to Winterfell was terrifying enough when she had first invited him, but he might not have let her convince him to accept if he'd known they would never have a moment alone. Her family is nice; they are also a lot.

"Arya, stop hiding your boyfriend. Let him face us like a man!"

Groaning, he actually pushes her back so he can get his bearings. Arya does not take this gracefully, though, and lifts her head over the barrier to glare at Robb. "You're just jealous he can hold our territory. Tell me again how quickly Theon and Sansa captured yours?"

"Here," Gendry says between laughs, shoving the snowballs he'd made into the crook of her right arm for storage. "Better to be armed when picking fights with your siblings."

She smiles up at him, beckoning for a kiss. "Thanks. Start thinking about what you want for our victory dinner while I go crush the competition."

This kiss is longer, and it warms him better than the fire and hot chocolate awaiting them inside the manor. "My hero."

[goodqueenaly]

Hi Nina,

I have this little fantasy in mind that if Theon didn't betray Robb's cause and chose to not follow his lord father's.... unorthodox plan, (thus depriving himself of what little chance he had to actually inherit his house's ancestral seat), could he hope to be considered a potential claimant to the Hornwood lands, a way for king Robb to show his open handedness to his loyal supporter, and to not favor any northern house over the other, to achieve a sort of political neutrality.

Sure, if Robb's end goal was to majorly piss off basically every northern vassal.

After all, Theon was not a "loyal supporter" of Robb, certainly not more so than the northern (and eventually riverlord) vassals of Robb's who fought with and for him. Theon might have fought under Robb's banner at the Whispering Wood, but he was fundamentally a hostage, taken as such at the end of the Greyjoy Rebellion both to symbolize the North's (and more generally the Iron Throne's) victory over the Greyjoys as well as guarantee that Balon would not try to rise in rebellion again. The best case scenario would have been that Theon would have gone back to the Iron Islands after Balon's death to take up his place as Lord of Pyke, but even into Robb's kingship IOTL Catelyn was recommending that Robb continue to treat Theon as a hostage rather than an independent member of his court.

So to give Theon the Hornwood? Who would have been glad to hear that? Not the Glovers, who had been fostering Halys Hornwood's bastard son Larence and were hopeful IOTL that Larence would be named heir. Not the Tallharts, since Leobald Tallhart's son Beren had a very colorable claim as the female-line nephew of the late Lord Halys. Not the Karstarks or Flints, whom Luwin noted have unspecified blood claims to the Hornwood. Not the Manderlys or Umbers, who were hopeful to marry Donella Hornwood with the hope of controlling the Hornwood for at least her lifetime (if not extend that control past her death). Not Roose Bolton or Ramsay, with the former already trying to eliminate both the Hornwood lord and regional rivals at the Green Fork and the latter assembling an army as the issue was being raised. Not the rest of the North, which as a state (and in particular families like the Mormonts and the mountain clans, which don't even necessarily have a horse in the race for the Hornwood) has a long history of war and antagonism with the Iron Islands (as Alysane Mormont bluntly reminded Asha in ADWD). Robb would have been flouting both the real northern bloodline claims to the castle as well as the potential to put the Hornwood under the marital control of a northern vassal in favor of giving this old northern seat to a foreign, and specifically ironborn, hostage, the son of the Lord of the Iron Islands who in the course of his rebellion against the North's liege had caused northerners to die.

And remember, Balon was already planning to invade the North independent of Theon coming back to the Iron Islands. Balon had quite frankly written his last surviving son off for dead, and if he had not formally proclaimed Asha his heir, he was certainly treating her as a de facto replacement son. Balon would not have cared if Robb made Theon Lord of the Hornwood; if anything, Balon probably would have taken this as confirmation that Theon had been completely brainwashed by those no-good-very-bad greenland lords. Giving Theon the Hornwood would not have helped win the support of the ironborn, it only would have personally rewarded Theon while likely hardening Balon's resolve to attack the North and the Starks. (And even if Balon's invasion failed, imagine the future repercussions - the Lord of Pyke having a permanent seat in the heart of the North?)

There was no perfect solution to the Hornwood crisis; that's the heart of the problem about it. But the absolute last solution Robb should have gone with was to give it to Theon. It would have been a complete repudiation of his role as a liege to his northern vassals, forsaking a very clear opportunity for making a royal judgment and distributing favor. Worse, he would have been doing so in favor of someone who not only brought nothing to his, Robb's cause beyond his own sword, but who represented a history of antagonism and bloodshed between the North and the Iron Islands.

[opinions-about-tiaras]

In your opinion, what immediate changes would there be if Robett Glover was given command of the forces at the battle of the Greenfork, and Roose Bolton was subsequently killed while fighting in the vanguard? Obviously, this means no Red Wedding down the line, but how do you think this would affect the rest of the Stark/Tully war effort, in the months following?

This is very nearly impossible to say without knowing more about Robett Glover's command style and competences. Is he cautious? Is he bold? Is he by-the-book? Is he smart? Is he dumb?

For example, if he takes the Greatjon's advice and makes a forced march through the night, but DOESN'T form up in battle array a mile from the Lannisters with trumpets and banners but instead smashes into them as the sun rises, he wins a great victory, possibly capturing or even killing all of the high-ranking Lannisters and their associated nobles, including Tywin and Tyrion. That basically ends the war right then and right there; the remaining Lannister forces disintegrate, Robb and Robett's two hosts link up and march on King's Landing at once.

It's also possible Robett is a bumbling incompetent, maybe he manages to fuck up even worse than Roose's deliberate sabotage does and the Tywin wins a huge victory, not merely a tactical draw. Tywin still has to withdraw; he's massively overextended. But that leaves him with greatly expanded strategic options, more hostages, etc.

I assume, however, that what you actually meant was "what if the outcome of the battle is basically the same but just Roose dies and someone basically competent commands the eastern host."

And what that means is basically Robb has a lot more strategic and tactical depth in that theater. Robett can push across the Ruby Ford and pin Tywin much more closely in Harrenhal; after Arya arranges to hand the castle over he has more forces and better organized ones to sweep the Lannisters out of the eastern Riverlands. Robett will prosecute the war in a manner Roose won't, which means it isn't hamstrung in a thousand small ways.

The big changes will happen up north, I feel. Ramsay will immediately lay claim to House Bolton and lordship thereof. Robb will give this due consideration (bastards can often inherit in these circumstances, after all) but Ramsay no doubt is going to do something arrogant, horrible, and grotesque that causes Robb to go "no, fuck YOU" and find the nearest legal legitimate claimant; I'm sure there's a Bolton cousin out there, the descendant of some political marriage made to a Manderly or Umber or Hornwood or Flint or SOMETHING three generations back who is the proper legal heir. Ramsay can probably cow the Dreadfort's local garrison and hold it and the land, they're used to obeying him, but he won't have the loyalty of most of the Bolton men, who are under Robb's thumb in the south, and doesn't have the political acumen to make alliances. He stews in the Dreadfort until an alliance of northern lords eventually deals with him.

[phoenix-king-ozai]

Why the Agni Kai was justified!

Why Zuko banishment is his fault and was supported by Fire Nation society.

Extremely hot take...Yeah, I know. Granted, Zuko was MORALLY RIGHT about the Fire Nation troops being sacrificed on the battlefield for victory, but SACRIFICES ARE COMMON IN FUEDAL ANCIENT WARFARE which the Fire Nation is based on! Tokugawa Shogunate Japan, Mongolian Empire, Yuan Dynasty, Aztec Empire, Inca Empire and etc. Which were Imperialist and Absolute Monarchies. Robb Stark and Napoleon did the same thing and are considered great generals!   

As far as Ozai and Azula is concerned, Zuko is a disgrace as Firstborn of the Firelord. Ozai had some hope in the past for Zuko which is why he didn’t Exile, Assassinate or Banished him during his childhood or during reign as Firelord until the Agni Kai duel. Ozai was originally shame of Zuko for possibly being a non bender. Fire Bending probably means everything to Fire Nation Royalty and Nobility, even Piandao [probably noble] parents abandon him for being a non bending because it would be a disgrace. Ozai was probably going to disown Zuko for being a “non-bender” that was born on a Winter Solstice and Premature. High Fire Nation society is all about power, dominance, intimidation. 

The burning and banishment was cause by Zuko breaking sacred Fire Nation tradition!

HE IS A COMPLETE FAILURE OF A FIREBENDER AT 14 AND HAS NO MILITARY EXPERIENCE AS A GENERAL YET HE HAS THE GALL TO CALL OUT GENERAL LI PLANS FOR BEING TERRIBLE?

INSULTING AND CRITICIZING A HIGH RANKING WAR GENERAL WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE NOT BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE ACCORDING TO IROH!

REFUSING TO DUEL (ANIMATED ATLA) OR HOLDING BACK (NETFLIX ATLA) IN A SACRED AGNI KAI DUEL WHEN COMMANDED BY THE FIRE LORD AND HIS IS OWN FATHER!

Was the plan immoral? Yes, but the Fire Nation genocided the Water Tribes and the Earth Kingdom for decades. Morality is the LEAST of the Fire Nation concerns especially when you can sacrifice a platoon of inexperienced fodder to capture a massive town or city and flank the powerful EK army. Firelord Sozin also had no issue committing genocide against thousands if not millions of Air nomads during the beginning of the war, the same can be said for his son Firelord Azulon genocide of the Southern Water Tribes and his raids on the Earth Kingdom and Seige of Ba Sing Se!

And of course, Azula believes Zuko to be a failure just like Ozai. Zuko FAILED to master BASIC FIREBENDING according to Iroh after THREE YEARS OF TRAINING UNDER THE GREAT DRAGON OF THE WEST. Yet, Azula is a GRANDMASTER firebender at FOURTEEN with UNIQUE BLUE FLAMES and LIGHTNING MANIPULATION!

PS: I BELIEVE THAT WHAT OZAI DID WAS COMPLETELY WRONG MORALLY, JUST THAT IT WOULD BE JUSTIFIED IN FIRE NATION IMPERIAL HIGH SOCIETY. NO ONE IN THE DUELING ARENA CAME TO ZUKO DEFENSE OR WAS OUTRAGED! IF ZUKO FOUGHT BACK, DEFENDED HIS VALUES, SHOW SOME SKILL AND FUROCITY THEN OZAI PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE BURN AND BANISHED HIM. HE WAS APALLED BY ZUKO “WEAKNESS” OF MERCY, COMPASSION AND EMPATHY FOR THE LOWER CLASS!

[wolfsneedles]

perhaps a small meta like thing i wanted to write and share on robb. I was thinking about that very haunting and pivotal moment in ASOS, when rickard karstark a loyal man of robb and starks killed the two prisoner/wards kids from lannister family when he realised catelyn released jaime. Catelyn releasing him is different and a very realistically emotional thing but robb acting and defending his mother when rickard says It was Lady Catelyn who was responsible for murder of the two kids....he just slaughtered in sleep and dark of their cells (reeks of bit sexism and misogyny tbh). Not realising however that jaime wasn't gonna get killed anyways that to by rickard or Robb was never gonna let them hurt him. basically so if karstark was avenging his sons...who died in battle with Robb, it is understandable but this was rickard's individualistic revenge - he was fighting for robb too. For North and for Starks and for his KING. i never understood how he killed two children but thats not the concern really. It is how robb reacts to murder of two children by karstark which is so foolish and stupid and honestly cruel considering his revenge was not gonna succeed anyways when jaime had...already escaped (and no omg cat wasn't responsible for karstark betrayal). And then Robb says, "

"I owe their fathers truth," said Robb. "And justice. I owe them that as well." He gazed at his crown, the dark gleam of bronze, the circle of iron swords. "Lord Rickard defied me. Betrayed me. I have no choice but to condemn him.

He made up his mind anyways to execute karstark not for betrayal but also for justice. Poetic Justice maybe...but the entire scene of rickard karstarks execution is very hauntingly beautiful however uneasy and eerie, and you see robb from Cats POV doing something from his own hands himself. The imagery and environmental gloom is perfect. Even weather grrm wrote like, was hauntingly unsettling.

Lord Rickard's fought at my side in half a dozen battles. His sons died for me in the Whispering Wood. Tion Frey and Willem Lannister were my enemies. Yet now I have to kill my dead friends' father for their sakes." He looked at them all. "Will the Lannisters thank me for Lord Rickard's head? Will the Freys?"

He obviously knew, the death of karstark's liege lord will earn him worse betrayals and series of more unfortunate events,, yet he still in despair asks brynden and others, that freys and lannisters will obviously not thank him for this. Infact they repaid him worse.

How then can you call this vengeance? This was folly, and bloody murder. Your sons died honorably on a battlefield, with swords in their hands.”

I wanted to describe the scene which is so poetic. But the fact that there is constant thunder and rain can highlight the fact that it was or can be synonymous to misery and death and...robbs ultimate betrayal when karstarks leave in the night same day. Catelyn described the weather outside as,

"Outside the thunder crashed and boomed, so loud it sounded as if the castle were coming down about their ears. Is this the sound of a kingdom falling? Catelyn wondered"

In the next sentence u see, robb more mature and dauntless when he decides he will execute rickard, "Robb reached down with both hands, lifted the heavy bronze-and-iron crown, and set it back atop his head, and suddenly he was a king again. “Lord Rickard dies.”

(also makes me mention how ppl criticise dany too mostly from the got show, but in books why she kills people, i think....if u put yourself in those historical framework and mentality of medieval society with loyalties and devotion tied to each other whether based on federalism or personal love, betrayal and treachery or going behind a king or queens back doesn't...go unpunished. Treason never goes unpunished when we also think of jon snow executing janos and robb with karstark. You have to realise emotions of both people. the one who carries sentence and one who dies.)

Back to the scenic description i found in this chapter. Catelyn again talks about weather and i absolutely loved contrast bw the weather and grimness of it and an execution soon to be carried in godswood,

"When day broke, grey and chilly, the storm had diminished to a steady, soaking rain, yet even so the godswood was crowded. River lords and northmen, highborn and low, knights and sellswords and stableboys, they stood amongst the trees to see the end of the night’s dark dance."

"Robb flung the poleaxe down in disgust, and turned wordless to the heart tree. He stood shaking with his hands half-clenched and the rain running down his cheeks. Gods forgive him, Catelyn prayed in silence. He is only a boy, and he had no other choice"

I think the rain is perfect thing. the way it is pouring down and then previously it was mentioned how remaining men who took part in killing young boys of lannisters with karstark were hung from trees ...but their faces were darkened and washed and grrm mentions this a lot everytime he mentions a depressing scene with death and ppl hanging from trees esp when lady stoneheart or brothers without banners or brienne and pod encounter people hanged. Its also sooo haunting how karstark was executed in front of heart tree and godswood...by hands of Robb as well (similar to what ned said that man who passes sentence will swing the sword so he knows what he feels too and robb did it last moment too)

" That was the last she saw of her son that day "

This line by catelyn also describes horror of war and how young people like robb in this case are dragged into the lords game of thrones, sometimes half-heartedly sometimes intentionally she describes how war is affecting her son who is after all a boy.

".....rain continued all through the morning, lashing the surface of the rivers and turning the godswood grass into mud and puddles"

This weather is same as it was described and was on the day or eve of when Catelyn and robb along with edmure were making for the Twins and and something more horrific which was about to unfold there as well ( red wedding ) and on their way to twins the rain is mercilessly beating and falling too.

Last i wanna mention is day when robb and his men with Catelyn made for the Twins for wedding and weather was same miserable since last time it was when karstark was executed...which I was thinking DOES point to robbs failure and demise in the end as weather has a lot of impact on story and so does the ice and fire contrast that has always been made where winters and cold winds welcome the coming of darkness and enemy force in this case the Others, and fire reflects passion, warmth and hope for me in passages. prob why i love mention of dany and her dragons because they do represent an entirely different aura and hope against the dread that is building on the Wall and beyond it for coming of the actual-evil-forces the Others.

This is how perfectly the differences bw robbs victory in Whispering wood taken as sign of pride and hope is mentioned with --> emphasis on how warm the weather was, and now their travel to the Twins for red wedding as --> rain, mud, puddle, banks overflowing, their stark banners flooded and hanging down (another excellent indication for how house stark did have their back and strength broken after the wedding hence banner hanging low, or when arya later travels to twins and sees the banners on fire due to the massacre taking place...)

"..As the gods would have it, their route took them through the Whispering Wood where Robb had won his first great victory. They followed the course of the twisting stream on the floor of that pinched narrow valley, much as Jaime Lannister’s men had done that fateful night. It was warmer then, Catelyn remembered, the trees were still green, and the stream did not overflow its banks. Fallen leaves choked the flow now and lay in sodden snarls among the rocks and roots, and the trees that had once hidden Robb’s army had exchanged their green raiment for leaves of dull gold spotted with brown, and a red that reminded her of rust and dry blood"

[nbrook29]

For sobbe 100 and 106 😍

Hi!

Written for dialogue prompts

100. “Sorry! I didn’t mean to touch your butt.”

106. “This is the dumbest thing you’ve ever done.“

***

“Robbe, I’m dying.”

Sander’s pitiful announcement is followed by another few groans of pain.

“Please kill me so I can die faster.”

When Robbe re-enters the bedroom after having found the lotion in the cabinet, Sander is already lying face down on his bed, naked, with only a short towel covering his buttcheeks. He doesn’t even have to come closer to notice the grimace twisting his face where its mushed into Robbe’s designated pillow, or the tautness of his every muscle as he tries to alleviate the pain somehow.

“You know, this is the dumbest thing you’ve ever done,” he decides, rubbing the ointment between his palms to warm it up a little. 

“Hey,” Sander protests weakly, his lips forming into a pout that Robbe would consider cute if it didn’t instantly morph into another wince. 

Not wasting anymore time, he straddles his thighs and after placing a soothing kiss on his nape, he gets to work. It’s pretty worrisome that his position didn’t prompt a teasing comment from Sander, and Robbe frowns as he starts gently applying the gel on his upper back, his hands a little unsure as he’s trying not to press too hard and cause him more pain.

“Does it really hurt that bad?” he asks quietly, watching Sander’s face for any sign of discomfort at his ministrations.

“I think I’ll live, your hands are made of magic.” Sander twists his neck to wink at him and immediately moans in regret as a spasm of pain shoots down his back. 

Robbe chides him gently and tells him to lie still as he looks around for the bottle he brought to squeeze more gel.

“This feels soooo good, thank you.”

It prompts Robbe to lean down and pepper a few kisses on the visible part of his cheek, never having been immune to Sander’s sweet side coming out to the surface, stripped of any teasing. It’s not often he has him so pliant under his hands, so quiet and so cute Robbe feels his heart doing a little squeeze. 

Though, he’d prefer the pain being erased out of the equation because watching Sander hurt sucks.

“This is what happens when old people think they’re still young and springy.” He goes for a joke to lighten the mood and sure enough, the tips of Sander’s lips pull up just a tiny bit. Still, he counts that as victory.

“Be nice to me, Robin, I’m in pain.”

“Okay, okay, I’m sorry,” he surrenders hastily, grazing his knuckle on Sander’s cheek in a silent apology.

“You know what could help?”

“What?”

“An orgasm.”

He says it with such a serious face it pulls a laugh out of Robbe’s chest.

“Yeah, I don’t think so, you’re gonna tense up even more and then it’s gonna be really painful.”

“Why can’t I have nice things,” Sander whines dramatically, shifting under him suddenly and jostling Robbe in the process, making him grab his asscheek to keep his balance.

“Hey, don’t feel me up if there’s not gonna be a happy ending.” Sander smirks, proud of his little joke. 

“Sorry! I didn’t mean to touch your butt!”

“I know I’m hard to resist but you said it yourself that-”

Robbe clamps a hand on his mouth to shut him up, backing up before Sander does his signature move and licks his palm in retaliation like the 5 year old he is deep down. He promises him a happy ending tomorrow if his back feels better and, in an instant, a pleased smile blooms on Sander’s face making Robbe snort fondly as he tentatively moves on to working out knots in his shoulder blades. They’re crazy tight and he winces in sympathy as Sander lets out a few whimpers at the pressure.

“Man, what were you doing in that gym?” 

“Some weight lifting. And stuff.”

That makes Robbe stop in his tracks, fingers halting in the middle of Sander’s tanned back.

“You? Weight lifting? Since when? Wait, why were you even in the gym in the first place?” 

Sander shrugs a little. “Hey, I work out.”

Snorting quietly, Robbe runs his fingers on his arms, kneading the muscles he finds there too. “Baby, I’ve never seen you working out.”

“Well you’re not attached to my hip, are you now? I may be working out when you’re not around,” Sander mumbles into the pillow, his tone a little defensive, and now Robbe’s really confused, his hands faltering, especially when he notices the flush spreading through his neck.

“But you hate sports,” he points out, dumbfoundedly, not really knowing what to make of this change of heart. He’s almost certain Sander is rolling his eyes right now.

“I don’t hate it. I’m just not the biggest fan.”

Robbe picks up where he left off, his touches turning firmer as the muscles finally give a bit. “I still don’t get it.”

A deep sigh leaves Sander’s mouth. He bites at the inside of his cheek as his eyes swivel to the side looking for Robbe’s, and the insecure look on his face throws Robbe off even more. “I might have wanted to work on my body a little, okay?”

“But why?”

“You know... maybe finally gets some abs? Like you,” he pauses, considering for a moment if he should continue. “I look kinda skinny next to you.”

There’s stunning silence after his confession, the rising and falling of their chests matching up in the stillness of Sander’s bedroom. Robbe is gaping at him in a total surprise, mouth opening and closing like a fish.  

He did it for him?

“Sander...”

The boy turns gingerly on his back, not without huffinf and puffing as his hands find Robbe’s hips to keep him from falling.

He gives him a look from under his lashes. “It’s not a big deal.”

“What-, of course it is, I don’t need you to work out for my benefit or something.” 

He ignores the fact he’s now basically sitting on Sander’s dick since the towel slipped off, and leans down, nudging their noses together.

“Baby, all I care about is you being healthy, I couldn’t give less fucks about you having or not having abs,” he stresses, hoping to get his point across loud and clear because Sander being insecure about his body, about his opinion, is something he didn’t see coming at all, and it hurts him that Sander may have had all those thoughts about somehow not being enough for him when in reality, Robbe wakes up every morning marveling at how the fuck he managed to get him all to himself.

Sander’s green eyes don’t exactly look convinced though. “It’s sweet, but-”

“But there’s no but. I love you the way you are. And you’re stupidly gorgeous, by the way. Hot as fuck. Blond or brunette, abs or no abs, all dolled up or puffy and drooling in the morning, should I keep going?” Robbe smiles down at him, triumphantly, cupping his jaw in his still oily and sticky hands, but it’s okay, because he succeeded in shutting Sander up and tinting his cheek pink, and he can feel him relaxing slightly under him.

Sander clears his throat, a little bashful still, and it’s funny to Robbe how the tables have turned; it’s usually the other way around. It’s Sander reassuring him about his rather shallow insecurities, it’s Sander complimenting him left and right, grinning cheekily at Robbe’s embarrassment every time. Robbe’s love and adoration is quieter, more subtle, shown through touches, looks and kisses. 

Maybe they weren’t enough though if Sander believed he may care about such unimportant details as the way his body is built. 

Maybe it’s time Robbe gets more vocal about what that body does to him.

“You really don’t mind?”

Sander’s quiet voice brings him out of his musings and he slots their lips together, with a tad of desperation, but it feels fitted for the moment.

“Nope. So please, please, leave the weights alone, okay?”

There’s a nod against his cheek, Sander pulling back a little to press a lingering kiss to his lips.

“You’re an angel, you know that?” He says in between kisses and laughs brightly when Robbe nods playfully in agreement, pretending to be cheeky about it. “Will there be more massaging tonight?” Sander gives him his killer puppy eyes and who is Robbe to tell him no.

“And will there be more kisses?”

“Yep. Tonight and the day after that. And the day after that...”

Well, that sounds like a plan Robbe could get behind one hundred percent.

[fromtheboundlesssea]

A Dream of Spring Chapter 46

Jon XI

“Queen D@enerys is a mouthful,” he replied. She wasn’t his queen and it was obvious she would never return the courtesy to him, even if he was only a regent. There had been very little respect. Barely even a title of lord cast his way. “Especially if I have to use all your titles.”

She smiled at him snuggly, like a child that had been caught but allowed to carry on in their mischief. Rather reminiscent of Theon when they were children, if Jon were to compare it to someone. Him of Joffrey when his mother had said nothing to reprimand his cruel words about Bran. The woman’s hand slid to his own. “Perhaps simply D@enerys,” she said. His stomach churned, almost a me to hear her innermost thoughts and belief. “As long as I am allowed to simply call you Jon.”

He nodded. It wasn’t as if it would be much of a difference. She would simply be dropping the name of Snow. “The title of king never suited me anyway.”

That had always been Robb and now Rickon. He missed his little brother and wondered how he was fairing since Jon had last seen him.

“And what of the people who chose you, swore to you?”

She was looking ever so pleased with herself. She seemed so sure of who he was in terms of power. The North respected the Stark name and his father. That and the king was still a child. She didn’t know him. She didn’t know him or his people at all.

“They chose their king and I have no doubt they would choose their queen when the time comes.” Rickon’s bride would be queen one day, and even if it wasn’t in name, Sansa was their queen too.

D@enerys brought his hand to her lips and kissed his knuckles. It took everything in him to not yank his hand away. Her lips were like fire, trying to brand him as her own. “Do you think they shall come to like me?”

He looked at her for a long time, trying to find the words that would appease her and make her leave quickly. “They’ll all come to see you for what you are.”

She smiled at him, like she was victorious. “I hope I deserve it.”

“You do,” he said simply. She was a fool. He had promised her absolutely nothing and she was too blind to see it.

She continued to smile and stood, leaning over him. Jon stiffened as she pressed a kiss to the corner of his mouth and he wanted to shove her away, but he needed to bide his time. He was still her prisoner. He hadn’t been returned to Winterfell. She was taking him south and he had no way of returning until they docked, but even then, he doubted that any of his men save perhaps Davos had come with him. For now he was at the dragon queen’s mercy.

“You should rest,” she ordered him gently, as he had seen Lady Stark kindly order his father about. “I doubt Cersei will find you intimidating if the King in the North appears weakened by a common cold.”

He had nearly died of hypothermia. She truly was an utter fool who seemed to think nothing of belittling the trials of others. Jon nodded and slipped his hand from hers now that her grip had loosened. He sighed and closed his eyes, thrilled when he heard her leave.

He was furious. Did no one in her confidence inform her that she had basically kidnapped a king, at least to their understanding? Did no one inform her that a Targaryen taking someone of House Stark away from the North and their family would reflect badly on her?

It was bad enough that she had forced him to stay on Dragonstone. However the North would be all too willing to find reasons to dislike her beyond her house and she was making a rather easy list for them.

Jon sighed.

He wanted to go home.

Continue on Ao3