#bad arcane criticism

[sapphiresaphics]

The entire point of Arcane is about promoting the idea that no matter how much bad shit you’ve caused, it’s never too late to do something good.

And yet there are still people in the fandom that despise Caitlyn because she doesn’t fall on her hands and knees groveling and begging for forgiveness for her mistakes.

[sapphiresaphics]

It really is quite amazing how many people are intentionally reading Arcane so poorly. I legitimately want to scream at people sometimes. I don’t understand it. Wtf happened in those 3 years to completely sour people this badly?

I knew we would eventually reach a point where masses of people would misinterpret Arcane, but I never imagined it would be this bad.

Yes, I absolutely agree that season 2 was rushed, especially Act 3, and it is undeniable that the series would have benefited from at least one more episode if not an entire act. However, the current discourse about the show is so superficial that it's impossible to have a conversation about anything deeper but a mere synopsis of the characters and story.

So many of you expected this series to hold your hand and dumb everything down so you can understand it. But when it wasn't the case, you all started rioting and calling the characters vague, the plot bad, and the ships underdeveloped.

The amount of people who value spoken text more than the actions of the characters is worrying. And more worrying than that is the amount of those who interpret the said actions so superficially. I can't believe it needs to be explained that it wasn't Vi's death that led to the "good" timeline, but the lack of hextech. The result would have been the same if either of them had died. It wasn't about Vi, but about the child that died because of dangerous technology and that therefore that technology must not be used. The mischaracterization of Vi in general is insane. Call me biased and unfair, but the moment I hear you don't like her I will assume you didn't understand the show.

Also, the whole discourse around Caitvi scene in episode 8 is giving brainsmooth. No, Vi didn't choose Cait over Jinx, quite the opposite. No, Cait didn't plan all of it to fuck Vi. No, Vi didn't do it because she felt forced or because she is a horny animal who doesn't care about her sister. No, them fucking in a cell is not about the class difference, but about the fact that Vi felt an insane rush of emotions after realizing that Cait would let go of her revenge and help Jinx escape, all for her. Yes, I do agree that it would be nice if we got a longer conversation between Vi and Caitlyn and it would feel great to hear Cait apologize, but I'll always value actions over words. Her talking to Jinx, recognizing that she is just as bad as her, and choosing to trust Vi that her sister can change, thus letting Jinx escape will always mean more than any verbal apology and I'll die on that hill.

Also, it was Jinx's decision to let go and walk away. It was not about Vi trying to get to Vander, but about Jinx being tired of everything. Even if that fight didn't happen, the result would be the same: Jinx would leave because she knows that Vi couldn't do that. She knew that the two of them couldn't have a normal life together and that Vi would never give up on her. Jinx didn't "die" because Vi pushed her or failed her, but because she loved her too much. Whether you believe that she is dead or that she escaped, it's her decision either way.

Again, I agree that too much happened too quickly, but stop confusing your stupidity and inability to read between the lines with the quality of the series.

Arcane is flawed but still brilliant.

[sapphiresaphics]

I am SO FUCKING SICK of this being used as an excuse. There’s this NASTY pervasive policing in media by some “fans” who believe that you can’t like or enjoy a character unless they’re completely morally PURE. They believe that any negative thing a character does MUST be met with equal retribution and/or punishment, or else that means the media in question is CONDONING or SUPPORTING the actions of said character.

Caitlyn, along with every other character in Arcane, is a morally grey character. Meaning they do good things and they do bad things and you’re supposed to have the capacity not to forgive the bad but to be able to understand the reasons behind their actions and see things from a perspective that is not purely black and white. Understanding Caitlyn’s actions doesn’t mean you condone/forgive them, but it also doesn’t mean you condemn her for them either.

Caitlyn does some bad things in her position of power, but she’s not a fascist. Fascism is a far right-wing authoritarian belief. But Caitlyn never show signs of being right-wing. She doesn’t believe in the ideology of fascism and she actively works against the system she’s been put in charge of when she can. She doesn’t use the deep dark prisons in Stillwater where Vi was held, she refuses to lock people up without cause, and she has no interest in amassing power. She has one goal: Get Jinx. That’s it. And she uses the power that was GIVEN TO HER BY THE GOVERNMENT to try and enact that goal. And importantly when that goal is met/exhausted, she RETURNS POWER BACK TO THE GOVERNMENT. Which is what a military leader IS SUPPOSED TO DO under Martial Law.

But these moral police “fans” just see that she did bad things and therefore she is bad too. Simple as that. And anyone who tries to bring CONTEXT and NUANCE into a show that heavily relies on CONTEXT and NUANCE gets blamed for approving of “war crimes” and defending “classism.” And no… that’s not how media literacy WORKS you pompous asshole!

It’s extraordinarily frustrating that fascism as a term has no clear definition, because that allows these moral police assholes to label anything they don’t like under the fascism umbrella. It makes trying to discuss Caitlyn and her arc really difficult because they just shut down all discussion with “she committed war crimes” and they never even bother to try and look into the story beyond that extremely surface level reading.

[sapphiresaphics]

It is really disheartening that the entire Arcane hashtag is FLOODED with gorgeous sexy Jayce x Viktor fanart and intimate discussions…. while all discussion centering around Caitlyn x Vi seem focused around accusations of FASCISM, chemical warfare, police brutality, and oppressor x oppressed readings.

God, you guys just HATE lesbians, don’t you?

Fuck you all.

[sapphiresaphics]

The council decides to invade all of Zaun to get Jinx.

Caitlyn: “innocent people will get caught in the crossfire!”

The council doesn’t care. They’re planning to invade anyway.

Then the attack on the memorial happens.

Caitlyn: “We aren’t prepared for a full scale attack, the attack on the memorial proved that. So I’m planning to lead a small elite strike force into Zaun with 3 objectives. Dismantle shimmer. Arrest anyone associated with Silco. And get Jinx.”

Caitlyn looks into her Kiramman archive to figure out a way to do this without hurting a large number of people. Discovers the Grey vent system and puts into motion a plan to use the Grey to clear the streets using it like tear gas and attacking only facilities associated with Silco and his fellow Chem-baron goons as a way to prevent unwanted civilian casualties.

The show literally shows Caitlyn and her team using the vents themselves to enter and exit areas and attacking ONLY the chem Barrons and their goons.

Fandom: “OH MUY GAWD! CAITLYN IS LITERALLY HITLER GASSING THE ENTIRE CITY IF ZAUN! THE GAS IS CANCEROUS AND KILLS ON IMPACT! SHE’S SUCH A HORRIBLE PERSON! SO MANY INNOCENT CIVILIAN LIVES LOST! I CAN’T BELIEVE SHE HURT INNOCENT CIVLIANS! DRUG LORDS ARE STILL CITIZENS AND DESERVE HUMAN RIGHTS! ACAB! ZAUN IS A GAZA PARALLEL! DICTATOR! DICTATOR! DICTATOR! KKKIRAMMAN”

Me: Jesus fucking Christ almighty….im so fucking tired…

[sapphiresaphics]

People scream “show don’t tell!” all the damn time, but the second a show actually DOES just show you stuff and make you use your brain to piece things together you scream “bad writing! Bad writing!”

Fuck you. You don’t want a story to “show don’t tell,” you’re literally angry they won’t just spoon feed you the answers on a silver platter.

[sapphiresaphics]

I’m tired, everyone.

Tired of loving a character that is universally maligned and hated.

Tired of people conflating the classism issues in a fictional show to real life wars and terrorism.

Tired of people gushing about how the mlm ship is somehow “gayer than the on screen lesbian sex scene.”

Tired of people not understanding what the word fascism is, how it works, and applying it to anything they dislike with no thought or ounce of self reflection.

Tired of people conflating being poor with moral righteousness.

Tired of people refusing to actually do the work and analyze the show they claim to like.

And most of all… I��m just tired of all the ridiculously bad takes.

[sapphiresaphics]

I do have to wonder how many of the people “criticizing” arcane are literally children and for whom Arcane is their first “adult” TV show given how BAD their moralizing and understanding of nuance is.

Like, I don’t recall seeing anything THIS BAD in the Blue Eye Samurai fandom. And Mizu has done far worse things (even intentionally) than Caitlyn ever has.

And it’s weird cuz I keep seeing a lot of them comparing CaitVi to… Catradora?

Are you guys children who came to Arcane from She-Ra? Is THAT why you’re struggling to deal with the complexities of the story and bemoaning that characters aren’t “punished” for their transgressions?

[sapphiresaphics]

I love that you’re complaining about what happens season 2, as if Vi DOESN’T fall in love with an enforcer in season 1. Like all of season 1 was her falling head over heels for the person she’s supposed to hate, and you’re ignoring ALL of that to bitch about season 2.

Arcane critical criticisms of season 2 can only exist if you ignore the context of season 1.

Why would you use this sequence of shots

As your opening scene

And then just never properly tackle Vi's feelings towards becoming an Enforcer? Let's say I was convinced enough that she'd join up for the Jinx hunt—my sister's gone I need to lay this ghost to rest—where was the guilt that should have been eating her alive afterwards?? And the working through of that guilt?

I don't know if I dislike this writing choice more, or the deluge of fans nodding along to the tune of "love and understanding can fix all of it"

[sapphiresaphics]

What I don’t get about all the Caitlyn hate is that you don’t have to make shit up to hate her?

You don’t have to say that she “gassed the entire city of Zaun” to be angry and upset about the way she uses the Grey to go after Jinx. The fact she uses the Grey at all IS still a morally questionable action that you can criticize WITHOUT exaggerating the effects and culpability.

One of the main reasons I defend Caitlyn so much is not because I agree with her actions, but because the ways people are exaggerating the severity of her crimes is getting RIDICULOUS.

No, she is not a “domestic abuser” for hitting Vi in the ribs.

No, she does not “sexually assault Maddie” because they sleep together.

No, she did not give all of Zaun fantasy cancer by unleashing the Grey.

No, Caitlyn is not a fascist or a dictator because she was manipulated by Ambessa.

These words MEAN THINGS and when you exaggerate their meanings and blow things WAY out of proportion just to shit on her or the writing or whatever grievance you have with the show, you are showing the rest of us that you’re mentally a child and incapable of having a serious discussion or analysis of the events of the show.

STOP ACTING IN BAD FAITH.

That’s really all I want. I don’t care if you don’t like Caitlyn or she’s not your favorite character. That’s fine. Art is subjective, not all people have to like the same thing. But when the show presents one thing, and you argue something entirely different or adjacent to that thing to shit on it, you are strawmanning your arguments and starting from a position of bad faith.

[sapphiresaphics]

^^^———

Yeah, well, I wanted Viktor to don a half mask and haunt an opera house while singing “music of the night” but it didn’t happen.

Like… you guys GET that this is symbolism and references to famous TRAGEDIES, right?

Please tell me you guys understand this concept…

And like… Jinx DOES become a symbol for the revolution? Like that’s part of her ARC in the story and the ONLY REASON Zaun comes to help in the final battle is because SHE joined in. You still got your revolution. You still saw her processing being part of the revolution even if she didn’t want to be a part of it at first.

Like seriously? You’re mad they referenced Les Miserable in the intro and you didn’t get her waiving a flag in the show?

wtf is wrong with you guys?

[sapphiresaphics]

You can tell that I’m starting to piss people off because so many of these “anti” people have blocked me for calling out their dumbass bullshit.

That’s not gonna stop me though! Screenshots for the win, bitch!

Anyway, as per usual this is a dumb post by a dumb person. Vi is NOT “clearly having a panic attack.” She was sad, yes, and very emotional. But having emotions isn’t having a panic attack. Panic attacks look a very specific way and this does not track.

And yes, there absolutely IS something romantic about this. At her lowest point thinking that she just lost both Jinx AND Caitlyn, Caitlyn comes in and informs her that she let Vi make this decision to save her sister. Caitlyn, the woman who’s been hunting her sister for 2 seasons, whose mother was blown up by her, who sacrificed so much to capture her sister… waltzed into the room and let her know that she forgives Caitlyn for wanting to save her sister and that she’s letting her anger go because VI’s love is more important to her than her hatred of Jinx.

At her lowest point thinking she lost Caitlyn, Caitlyn came in and let her know she’s worth the love. That she’s not a bad person for making the decision to free Jinx. That her love for her sister IS still important and a worthy quality to have.

That’s HELLA romantic. What the fuck are you talking about?

And yeah… it IS impulsive. And it IS selfish. Two things can be true at once.

[sapphiresaphics]

It’s not “anti-science,” it’s anti-MAGIC.

The Arcane is NOT scientific. It doesn’t behave scientifically. It LITERALLY possesses Viktor and steers him down a path he normally would not have taken. The effects of the magic wreck havoc on the world, topside AND bottom.

Like, in League of Legends lore magic exists as a result of cosmic Eldridge horror entities and it has its own wants and desires. Using magic is DANGEROUS because you can never be sure if your intentions are ACTUALLY your own or not. Magic WANTS to be used in the same way the One Ring from Lord of the Rings WANRS to be found.

Maybe you need a brush up on League of Legends lore before you start criticizing its systemic issues and equating magic with science?

one more thing i definitely dislike about arcane is how...weirdly anti-science it is. maybe it attempted to be talking about the ethical decisions that are involved in scientific progress but instead...

tell me why a disabled man's pursuit to alleviate his suffering is treated as going against the very nature of the universe when his disability is hardly 'natural' (if such a thing exists) but rather caused by the machinations of the upper class of the society he lives. a society that has created many more disabled children and orphans just by how it functions. but ohhhhh magic science bad...don't mess with the order of nature...

[sapphiresaphics]

I think the other thing that bothers me about the hatred for Caitlyn is that if she was a man the shipping community would be ALL OVER IT.

There’s literally a whole cottage industry of making TV shows and movies about toxic male characters. And these shows are ranked as some of the “best TV ever!” Shows like Sopranos, or Breaking Bad. Movies like American Psycho, Joker, Fight Club. Media that explore toxic masculinity and depict the “hero” male characters doing some absolutely DESPICABLE things.

But Caitlyn isn’t afforded that luxury. Any small transgression she does is scrutinized with a lens SO INTENSE that no normal character could bear it.

I mean FUCK, it’s in Arcane itself! Viktor and Jayce are two men with privilege in Piltover, whose experimentations and science is the catalyst for the events of the show and which cause BOTH cities immense suffering and pain. But because these two men nudge foreheads together and profess their… affection as friends… the fandom won’t leave them alone! The fandom treats Viktor as this emo sad sack, and Jayce as this big dumb idiot, neither of which are true to their characters.

You all just can’t handle lesbians being messy at all. You need them to be pure and perfect and idolized. Caitlyn doesn’t do half of the evil of what Viktor was going to do to the world, but she’s treated as irredeemable and Viktor is treated as innocent and pure.

Fuck all of you.

[sapphiresaphics]

It truly is astounding that for the entirety of Season 1 of Arcane all of the characters go through tremendous growth in their arcs and end the season in a much different place than when they started… and then when Season 2 rolls around fans are ANGRY that the characters aren’t behaving the way they did in Season 1.

Like, I’m sorry, but what do you think an arc IS? When Jinx says to Vi at the end of Season 1 “you’ve changed too” did you think that was just a throw away line? Do you not understand that the changed Vi at the end of Season 1 is the same Vi we’re gonna start Season 2 with? Did you think all of the characters were just going to RESET to their default traits? Did you FORGET everything that happened in season 1???

I don’t think the writers “forgot who the characters were,” I think the writers were just continuing where they ended Season 1 at.

Like, yeah… Caitlyn behaves a LOT differently than she did in Season 1… because ALL OF SEASON 1 HAPPENED.

Jinx behaves a LOT differently than she did in Season 1… because THE FINALE OF SEASON 1 HAPPENED.

In order to believe that the writers somehow “forgot who the characters were” you have to willingly forget and ignore all of the growth (and setbacks) they had during Season 1.

Like… Caitlyn was a young naive cop who wanted to do the right thing and to see the world differently. And with the help of Vi, she learns about the plight of the undercity and champions for their cause…

But then she’s KIDNAPPED from her home while naked, tortured by Jinx, kept hostage for at least a full day, held at GUNPOINT by Jinx, and then watches as her mother is blown up by Jinx.

THAT is where her story ENDS in Season 1.

So when we come back to Season 2, seeing Caitlyn struggling to treat the undercity with kindness is difficult for her and she’s struggling with falling down a very dark path. And so when Ambessa sets up an attack on a memorial that was in honor of her dead mother… yeah… she’s gonna slide BACKWARDS.

All that goodwill she had romping around Zaun with Vi learning about the undercity’s plight is violently RIPPED AWAY from her.

Same with Vi. We end the season with Vi not being able to reach Powder. And now she has to confront the fact that her moment of weakness in hurting Powder all those years ago helped create Jinx. She ends the season with the burden that everything that happened is a result of her failures. “When people look up to you, you don’t get to be selfish. When you say light a fire, they show up with oil. And whatever happened next is on you.”

That’s where we BEGIN season 2 for Vi. Immense guilt and shame and a deep desire to make things right. Her Season 1 desire to get powder back was VIOLENTLY ripped away from her.

Like… I do not understand how anyone could watch this show and these two seasons and NOT follow along with their arcs and progression. Especially when the show does so much to show its work and make it as CLEAR AS DAY what and why characters feel the way they feel at any given time.

[jjkyaoi]

by the way. people are allowed to complain about this season feeling rushed. i don’t know when it became a thing in this fandom to completely jump people who have valid complaints like YES arcane is a fantastically produced and beautifully animated show and nobody will be able to top it but they did start things with some characters only for it to never go anywhere so it can all be wrapped up in three episodes 😭