#avendoraldera

[iviarellereads]

The Dragon Reborn, Chapter 39 - Threads in the Pattern

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(Wheel icon) In which we finally seem to get a glimpse of one of the teensiest mysteries.

PERSPECTIVE: Egwene. Avi is close to tears, saying she owes Nyn a debt. Dailin is her second-sister,(1) and her life means a blood debt. Nyn says if any blood is to be spilled, she'll do it herself. As payment, she'll only ask if there's a ship at the village nearby. Avi says yes, there was one when she scouted yesterday. Egg asks how they cross rivers, feeling as they do? Avi says many have bridges, some they can wade, and the rest... wood floats. She says they made a little ship (raft) out of some dead trees lashed together.

Nyn suggests they should be on their way, but El asks why they've come all this way, and endured so much hardship? Avi says they haven't come far at all, they were the last to set out. Bain says they seek He Who Comes With The Dawn, and Chiad adds that it's foretold he will lead them out of the Three-fold Land, and the prophecies say he was born of Far Dareis Mai.

El says she was taught the Maidens weren't allowed to have children. Avi says if a Maiden bears a child, she gives the child to the Wise Ones of her sept, and they pass the child along to another woman, so that nobody knows whose child it is. Every woman wants to foster such a child, in the hope she may raise He Who Comes, but now the Wise Ones say he's to be found here, beyond the Dragonwall. "Blood of our blood mixed with the old blood, raised by an ancient blood not ours."(2)

Now, Avi says, she has a question for them: why do three Aes Sedai travel alone, here in a land ravaged by hunger and war? Where do they go? Nyn says Tear, unless they stand here talking until the Heart of the Stone crumbles, and the Maidens tense up. Nyn says they're hunting evil women, Darkfriends. A Maiden uses their word, Shadowrunners. Three Aes Sedai hunting Shadowrunners and seeking the Heart of the Stone. Nyn says no, she just mentioned it crumbling, and starts walking away.(4) Egg and El make hasty goodbyes, and they follow.

El talks about how much she's just learned, how much is wrong of what she was taught before, and how much nobody taught her at all.(3) She was taught that the Aiel considered themselves thief-takers, coming after King Laman of Cairhien for the crime of cutting down Avendoraldera to make a throne out of its wood. It wasn't a war to them, it was an execution.(5) Egg remembers one of Verin’s lectures about how Avendoraldera was the offshoot sapling of the Tree of Life itself, given from the Aiel to the Cairhienin five hundred years ago as an unprecedented offer of peace. It's still not clear how they got a sapling of Avendesora, the Tree of Life, since it's said it will never make a seed, and nobody knows where the Tree itself is. And, now, since Laman’s Sin, Cairhienin who enter the Waste disappear, with rumours that they’re being sold into slavery on the other side.(6)

Egg supposes she can understand a war, from that perspective. El distracts her by saying she must know who He Who Comes is, right? Egg says she can't mean... El nods. She's heard a little bit about the Prophecies of the Dragon, and one line is that he will be born of a maiden wedded to no man. And Rand... He does look like an Aiel. Well, he also looks like portraits of Tigraine that still hang in the palace, but she disappeared long before he was born, and she could hardly have been his mother anyway. His mother must have been a Maiden of the Spear.(7)

They catch up to Nyn, and say she handled all that very well. Egg says the healing weave made lightning look like mixing oatcake. Nyn thanks them, smiling, and they walk on in silence. Another mile passes them by, and suddenly El screams, something hits Egg in the head, and everything goes dark.(8) She awakens, bound, across the back of a horse, in a huge group of horses and rough-dressed men. She tries to channel, but the pain in her head stops her. She sees El and Nyn, bound across horses as she is, Nyn's braid dragging on the ground. One of the men notices she's awake, and she's hit in the head a second time.

Waking is easier the next time. Her head still hurts, but not as much. She tastes sour wine and something bitter. She's not bound this time, in a room with a dirt floor and a poorly fitted door. Nyn and El are with her, still asleep. She peeks through a crack in the door, and the next room is richly furnished. She hears them talk about capturing them, feeding them some kind of herbal mixture that should keep them asleep for hours longer.

Egg wakes Nyn, covering her mouth to keep her from giving them away to the men. Nyn realizes they must have given them sleepwell root, which helps with headaches, but just makes you drowsy for a bit. Nyn examines El, and says her skull is broken, but they took her herbs, and she can't do anything without them. A look crosses her face, and she rasps that she didn't bring El all this way to die, she should have left her to scrub pots. Saidar shines around her, and El is healed. Nyn says doing it that way was like peeling off her own skin, though.(9)

They explain to El what happened, but when they look through the cracks again, there are three Myrddraal in the room, one picking up Lan's signet ring, which Nyn had been carrying. Egg channels a hair-fine weave of earth into the iron of the lock, weakening it, but just as it falls to the ground, the outer door of the next room swings open, and many Aiel unleash black-veiled death on the humans. They're about to start in on the Myrddraal when the wondergirls bust out of their room, startling Aiel and Myrddraal alike.

Egg sets the Myrddraal aflame, their screams like a meat grinder. El seems to push the air around them, crushing them, and Nyn wields a thin bar of white light that makes the noon sun seem dark, and the Myrddraal seem to cease to exist, as if they had never been. El asks what the heck that was, and Egg knows somehow that it was balefire.(10)

The Aiel unveil themselves, the Maidens they'd known and some men, as well. Nyn starts toward the two injured ones, but the older man says there's no need, they took Shadowman steel, which doesn't wound but kills. One of them is Dailin, and Nyn gets extra angry, she didn't heal the girl to die like this. El apologizes that they interrupted the... dance. The man, Rhuarc, chuckles and says he's grateful, three Shadowmen would have killed many of them, maybe all.

Nyn calms down, and asks Avi how they're all here? Avi says she followed them, but was too far behind to help when they were captured, so she sought out as many as she could get in touch with quickly to mount the rescue. She says she didn't expect to find any clan chief here, much less her own, and asks Rhuarc who leads the Taardad Aiel, with him here? He shrugs, saying the sept chiefs will take turns and decide if they really want to go to Rhuidean after he dies. He wouldn't have come, but Amys and Bair and Melaine and Seana said the dreams said he had to go.(11)

Avi laughs as if it's a joke, and says a man caught between his wife and a Wise One wishes for a dozen enemies to fight instead, but a man caught between his wife and three Wise Ones, and the wife a Wise One also, "must consider trying to slay Sightblinder.�� Rhuarc says the thought occurred to him, as he catches sight of the three Aes Sedai rings and the heavier gold ring on the floor. He picks them up, and Egg asks about the dreams, do the Wise Ones know what they mean? He says she'll have to ask some Wise Ones, they don't tell the Clan Chiefs anything but what they have to do. He examines the signet ring, and Nyn snatches it from him.

Three Aes Sedai, traveling to Tear, and one of them carrying a ring he heard about as a child. The signet ring of Malkieri kings. They and Shienarans rode with Aiel sometimes, in his father's time. But they died, leaving a child king who courts death as other men court women. He never expected to see so many strange things, here. The path they set is one he wouldn't choose to follow. Nyn says they set no paths for him, they just want to continue on to Tear, at first light.

They all spend the night out under the stars, and the Aiel share their breakfast: goat jerky and a hard blue cheese. They choose the three best horses for the wondergirls, and the Aiel bid them farewell, may they always find water and shade, and perhaps they'll meet again "before the change comes", whatever that means.

The wondergirls go on to the village, Jurene, that they had tried to reach the day before. They're no longer wearing their rings, they don't want to be taken for Aes Sedai in Tear, of all places.

The Andoran soldiers holding Jurene say it's lucky they came when they did, as they expect orders to return home any day now, and the villagers will probably go with them. There's one boat docked, a merchant ship full of fancy wood and rugs, not fast but he's the only one that would dock here, and that only because he found worms in his food supplies.(12) Nyn pays their fares, and twice as much again for the horses, so angry that neither Egg nor El talks to her until they're long away from Jurene.

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(1) First cousin. (2) Hmm. We've seen that the Two Rivers has some "old blood" still running through them. And we know that Rand is He Who Comes With The Dawn, though that title always makes him sound like a euphemism for morning hornies. At any rate, raised by ancient blood but not Aiel sounds right. But, he's not 100% Aiel? Whose old blood joined theirs, and how, when his mother was found fighting as part of Far Dareis Mai on Dragonmount? (See 7) (3) In fairness, hon, their culture's been cut off for thousands of years from your wide open end of the continent, with the exception of the trip to gift the tree and at least the one big war for reasons… (see 5) (4) Interrupting my long ramble to interject that, Gaul mentioned Aiel prophecy regarding Tear. These Maidens obviously know of it too, and see the implications just as quickly as Gaul did. (5) …we can finally talk about! Aviendha called the men "oath-breaking treekillers" last chapter, and I didn't draw attention to it, but here we finally have something like confirmation of why the name, and more, why the Aiel War. Now, is it right that they consider the whole country of Cairhien responsible for one man's crime? No, absolutely not. But, when you rise up in defence of your king, in a way you do become as complicit as he is in what you're defending. Everyone's a little bit right and a little bit wrong here, except Laman Damodred, who was entirely too fucking arrogant. (6) Yeah, so, when we joke about "your fave is a war criminal" in this fandom, we are often only lightly exaggerating. If this is true, the Aiel are selling Cairhienin into slavery, as a punishment, for their king's arrogance. The "your fave is problematic" of it all never stops in this series. (7) Ah, but here we continue from footnote 2. They mentioned Aiel, mixed with another old blood (like… royalty?) raised by yet another old blood (Manetheren). I know I and many many other long-time readers missed this unassuming little infodrop on our first reads. Elayne's probably intimately familiar with every portrait of a prior ruler of Andor, being the heir and all, so she'd be able to tell resemblances. Isn't that funny, that Tigraine disappeared after some sort of prophecy from Gitara Sedai, when Galad her son was still just a toddler, and some years later a young man shows up as the hero of our story who we now find out looks just like he could be her son? Must be a coincidence, after all his mother was fighting as a Maiden, surely no Daughter-Heir would be doing that? (This is absolutely why I asked for direct attention to the history bits explained in Eye of the World in particular, as Rand and Mat approached Caemlyn. RJ's outline of the series was there from the outset. It changed over time, both in detail and in format a bunch: originally, this book was to be the third act of the FIRST book in his proposed trilogy. The man couldn't be concise enough, though, to pull it off. So it was that one book became three, and three became fourteen.) (8) Who would raise a hand to a Wise One, indeed. (9) It can't be a pleasant experience to have to make yourself SO ANGRY just to do it, and then do it all in such a wild, uncontrolled rush. (10) Who else have we seen wielding bars of white-hot fire? What do you think balefire is now? Was Perrin only saved from ceasing to exist when Rand used it against him because he was dreaming? (11) That sounds extra serious. Not just one Wise One, but FOUR said so? Dang. And one of them his wife! That's interesting, given how infrequently Wisdoms and Aes Sedai marry in Randland. (12) But the ladies are TOOOOTALLY not Ta'veren, right.

[primeideal]

WoT book/show chronology ?divergence?

Okay, so I saw some discussion to the effect of "in the show canon, Anvaere is Moiraine's younger sister, and she's actually an old woman, emphasizing the fact that Moiraine is much older than she looks." However, I'm not sure if that follows, because Laman is still their uncle, hence a generation older than them, and he started the Aiel War. Which still ended 20 years ago because that's when Rand was born. Either Moiraine's age is still pretty close to canon, or Laman was really getting up there when he cut down Avendoraldera to make the Sun Throne...

OR the Aiel War really did start that long ago and it lasted decades longer than canon, and that's in part why Cairhien's redhead-related trauma is so ingrained decades later D:

[cannoli-reader]

Just... no.  If Rand is an al’Thor, Moiraine is not a Damodred. The Damodreds relate to Moiraine the way the Seanchan do to Egwene.  They are a horrible thing from her past that taught or reinforced in her some bad lessons, but are not all that important to the character.  To keep going on about Moiraine’s noble background and connections is like hoping the show really emphasizes Tuli’s career as a damane and how impressive and awesome is that Tuli is a talented ore-finder, and lots of stuff about her relationship to Renna.  

Moiraine and Elayne do not have a relationship, period, because their only connection is an awful human being with whom Moiraine didn’t want anything to do, and with whom Elayne never had a relationship, and is better off with substitutes she found along the way, no matter how unworthy the primary one was and no matter how she feels the lack.  To Moiraine, Elayne is simply one of those people who are too close to Rand for her convenience and someone she wants to hustle out of town as soon as possible so she cannot interfere with Moiraine’s attempts to push Rand down her chosen path.  To Elayne, Moiraine is just a mentor figure whom she is on the verge of realizing is as flawed as anyone else.  She does not have Nynaeve’s reflexive hostility to Moiraine nor Egwene’s equally unearned trust and respect.  Elayne’s respect for Moiraine is based on the other woman’s superior rank and experience and ability, and in her first PoV chapter, she is already starting to take the measure of the limits of Moiraine’s insight and leadership qualities.  

To the extent that there is a parallel, it is that Moiraine is an example of a bad path Elayne could take.  She is the dark side of what Elayne could be, without falling to the Shadow.  And that difference is largely centered on House Damodred.  House Damodred is the difference between Moiraine and Elayne.  Elayne had, in their place, Morgase and House Trakand.  Where House Damodred destroyed Cairhien with their selfish destruction of Avendoraldera for a symbol of power, House Trakand’s symbol is a keystone that supports Andor.  Despite House Trakand being the key motivation for Rand to save, protect and spare Andor, Elayne only sees the fighting that has marred her accession to the Lion Throne and regrets her failure to live up to that ideal.  

House Damodred drove Moiraine away from Cairhien into the arms of the White Tower, which is hardly a less toxic institution at this point in the story. It was House Damodred’s gaslighting their children with the rationalizations for their  historical and ongoing crimes that made Moiraine adamant in her refusal to exercise her rights as a Damodred and claim the Sun Throne. But House Trakand raised Elayne to see the ways she can help her nation instead of continuing the cycle of tyranny and intrigue, and so she embraces her duty and pursues the Lion Throne to save the nation, instead of leaving it to the likes of Galldrian Riatin, whom the heroes see as just as much of a potential obstacle to their recovery of the Horn of Valere as his Darkfriend archrival, Barthanes Damodred.  Where Moiraine gives herself over to the less-than-ideal institution of the Tower as an escape from her House, Elayne stands a good chance of freeing Andor from its hegemony, thanks to the ideal of duty and country first that she was taught as a scion of House Trakand. 

There is also the contrast in how Elayne and Moiraine share the fruits of their royal upbringing and White Tower training to help Rand.  Moiraine follows the Damodred-Tower playbook of controlling information, keeping people in the dark and maintaining her image of supremacy to keep them unable to question her. She tries to isolate Rand, keeping him dependent on her for advice and does her best to dictate his plans and course of action.  Elayne, on the other hand, offers him support and knowledge. She tries to help him channel, where Moiraine uses his ignorance as a club to make him doubt himself and demand his submission to her.  She orders him to tell her what he did, so she can pass judgment and tell him he was wrong, whereas Elayne, even at a moment of personal peril during their ill-fated lesson, is aware of the things Rand is doing properly and well.  She asks him about these things, trying to find something they can build on, instead of faults to tear down as Moiraine does.  Moiraine is present and arguably the closest and most knowledgable channeler when Rand starts mastering his abilities under Asmodean’s tutelage, and yet there is no commentary from her, no acknowledgment of his improvement or questions.  Elayne is forgiving of his direct assault on her person with the Power while Moiraine is critical of his efforts to do good.  

More damning is the fact that Moiraine knew for quite a long time that Rand was receiving channeling lessons from Asmodean, and probably knew what “Jasin Natael” was, if not who.  Why does she never confront Rand over this?  Never check what measures Rand is taking to keep him under control, never give him her own list of questions he could ask the Forsaken, through her own insights?  Why does she never offer to link to assist in Rand’s learning?  Because Moiraine is all about the control and the psychological warfare.  If she never acknowledges Rand’s improvement in channeling, she does not have to give him credit.  If she never reveals her knowledge of Asmodean, she does not have to give him props for his plan and the execution of it, to admit that he succeeded brilliantly with no input from her.  And if anything does go wrong, Moiraine is in position to say “this is all your fault, this is what comes of doing things behind my back” whereas if the same thing happens after Rand has read her in, she will have to accept a share of the responsibility.  

But going back to Tear and Elayne’s teaching, Elayne is sharing with Rand her own tutelage on the art of governance.  Before and after their time in Tear we are shown that Morgase governed with her mind on her responsibility to her people, and shouldering that responsibility with all that that entails (contrast “what you order done, you have done” with the Damodreds’ excuses that their tyrannical acts are necessary to govern Cairhien).  Elayne’s recollection of her lessons while in Tear feature Morgase emphasizing that Elayne must understand how the policies she decrees are put into action.  This, in turn allows Elayne to pass on to Rand the practical principles, even if she does not know exactly what he intends.  And while we are not privy to the details of their discussions, when Elayne thinks of passing on her own lessons, she recalls concepts like “guide a stubborn merchant” and “feed the hungry” with an emphasis on the logistics of the latter.  When Rand does announce his plans for Tear, it includes a famine relief expedition, with orders for financing and delegation of specific duties to feed the hungry distinct from the military aspects of the expedition.  He also announces a policy of opened trade with Illian and Mayne - guiding merchants into doing what he wants.  

Moiraine is the one who is scornful of Rand’s policies, at the moment and in hindsight in Rhuidean, dismissing everything he did as a waste of the power he held in Tear, but that expedition might have provided the critical edge in allowing the city to hold out against the Shaido long enough for Rand to bring the other Aiel to the rescue.  Rand’s treaty with Mayene has Berelain seek him out to offer her services, where she proves one of his most able political subordinates, and in fact, creates danger for herself with her loyalty to Rand, becoming a lightning rod for the discontent the Cairhienin are afraid to direct at him.  And his famine relief, military aid and opening of the grain trade has both Cairhien and Illian offering him their thrones.  Because of what he learned from a woman destined to be a ruler, while rejecting the war-making strategy of a woman raised to be an intriguer and one who approaches the governing of a nation or the conduct of policy as a Game. 

There are other contrasts as well.  When traveling with others in tDR, Moiraine expects others to do the labor.  Her sole contribution to the general housekeeping is to overawe Perrin & Loial with her fish-catching, while clearly expecting them to clean and gut her catch for her. Elayne, in the same book, undertakes to make alterations to the clothing of the party to enable them to ride once off their ship.  Later on, she will demonstrate rather impressive cooking skills, and in spite of his, and her established palate, is the only person in the menagerie who is willing to eat Nynaeve’s cooking.  Elayne’s quality as a peace-maker is often presented with her having to overcome the Two Rivers stubbornness of Nynaeve and Egwene, or the touchiness of Aviendha’s honor, and even the guilt-by-association of Egeanin, but let’s not forget that even in the very brief time Moiraine was in their company, she was included in the women who exasperated Elayne as she tried to keep harmony. 

Where Moiraine is characterized by her secrecy and withholding information, Elayne, more than any other character, is frank and tends toward honesty and sharing information.  She expresses her discontent with keeping the truth of their status from the Wise Ones, she balks at dissembling their status to Setalle Anan, she is the one to come clean with Thom and Juilin about the scope of the threats they are facing and even when making up a cover story for joining the menagerie, sticks very close to the facts, while leaving the situation open to a very different interpretation.  When she comes to Caemlyn and begins her campaign, she makes the choice to explain her decisions to her subordinates.  She shares information with Master Norrey, and both of these policies bear fruit, as Norrey opens up more with her, giving her more chances to demonstrate her worth and gain his respect, and enabling Birgitte and Dyelin to function well in her absence and effect both a defense of the city and Elayne’s own rescue.  

Yes, Moiraine and Elayne both have a Damodred half-brother with whom they are not close, but Moiraine can flirt with her brother’s murderer, while discussing that murder and even acknowledging his probable guilt, while Elayne eventually overcomes her issues with her own and accepts him as her brother and that she was wrong to be suspicious of him, putting aside the sort of outlook a Great Game-player would say is utterly warranted and even if not, better safe than sorry. Tarangail was ready to murder his wife to sate his thwarted ambitions, and gave up on seeing his child claim his family’s old throne when Elayne was still a baby.  Galadedrid never wavered in his loyalty to that side of the family, saving Gawyn’s life twice, being willing to die for Elayne and putting his life on the line to get justice for Morgase’s murder.  Needless to say, a notable difference in the two men is that one was raised a Trakand in all but name.  And it is, ironically, the daughter Tarangail gave up on, who succeeded in accomplishing his dream, claiming the thrones of both nations, while his eldest son rose to Lord Captain Commander of the Children of the Light.

One question in the backstory of the union of Damodred and Trakand is why did Tarangail give up on his dream, which is supposedly the motive for his plot against Morgase, at a time when his daughter was the heir-apparent to the throne of Andor, and half his dream was in the bag?  Did he give up on Galad taking the Sun Throne?  How? Why?  Yes, House Damodred lost it, but such dynastic changes are hardly permanent.  Cairhien was in a bad way from the Aiel War, and had lost their lucrative monopoly on the overland silk & ivory trade.  A challenging situation for any new-ascended dynasty, with plenty of opportunities to the Damodreds to play on nostalgia for the good old days.  What’s more, Tarangail was Prince Consort of a wealthy and powerful nation, in close proximity to Cairhien, and his son was a beloved stepson of the Queen. Morgase would almost certainly have wanted to see Galad succeed, and would probably prefer him on the Sun Throne when her daughter inherited Andor than almost anyone else.  Galad was popular in Andor, with both factions, as he would later be with both his men and his fellow officers in the Children. He was good-looking and talented, and there is nothing we can see that might disqualify him as a candidate for a throne in people’s minds.  Varys and Illyrio from A Song of Ice & Fire could not ask for a better setup to play their Return of the King gambit if they found themselves in Cairhien instead of Westeros.  So why would Tarangail have given up on seeing Gawyn on the Sun Throne? 

Because I don’t think Tarangail cared about his children at all in that dream.  I think they were a means to an end, Tarangail’s own glorification and aggrandizement.  Merely the son of Laman’s least-beloved brother, his path to succession to the throne himself was doubtful. His sister only had the chance because of qualities that made her attractive to a powerful interest, and only after the Aiel War cleared out most people who stood between the offspring of Dalresin and the crown.  So Tarangail saw his marriage to the Daughter-Heir of Andor as an alternate route to power (assuming that the marriage itself was not forced on him for Laman’s own agenda at the cost of Tarangail’s chance of succeeding his uncle), to be wielded indirectly. He did not want to see his kids on the thrones for bragging rights, but to wield power through them.  Tarangail could, in the right circumstances, be a power broker in all interactions between Andor and Cairhien, and play Elayne and Galad against each other to his own benefit.  The problem Tarangail almost certainly ran into was Morgase.  Morgase made it clear that he would not be wielding power in Andor through her (Tigraine being only Daughter-Heir might not have had the ability to do so - her mother was still the ultimate power in Andor and Modrellin might have felt it necessary to give her son-in-law concessions to maintain the peace with Cairhien and Laman), and given her protectiveness toward her children and her determination to see that Elayne never suffers her own perceived shortcomings, Morgase would have also made it just as clear that she would not put up with her husband using Damodred-style indoctrination and gaslighting to make their children  psychologically dependent on their father, and would have blocked any effort to make them politically dependent on him.  Hence his despairing of his dream, and determination to eliminate Morgase from the equation.  Ruling Andor as a king would be a delusional hope, but he might have been able to exercise the same level of power as Elayne’s regent, which would have lasted for well over a decade, if he was planning to move against Morgase in short order.  

If that seemed like a long-winded digression from the issue of Moiraine’s Damodred status, my point is this - Elayne is a Trakand.  She empowers and serves, in the best tradition of her mother.  Her rule is for others, where Damodreds use others for their own gain and power.  The Damodreds do not empower, they will cut you down to keep you under their thumb, as they destroyed the symbol that enriched their nation in order to appropriate it to reaffirm their dominance.  

And everything I said about Moiraine here comes across as really bad, for someone who did a lot of good and tried to do more, but, as I think I have explained sufficiently, was critically handicapped in her ability to do good.  Thanks to House Damodred and the White Tower.  The point is, Moiraine deserves better than to be associated with the people who brought the penultimate disaster to the continent prior to the emergence of the Shadow, and who were responsible for most of the grief and troubles afflicting Elayne’s (and arguably Rand’s) family and backstory.  Moiraine herself chooses to be simply Moiraine Sedai, instead of Moiraine Damodred.  If Rand can accept that he is Tam’s son, regardless of whom he was born to, or sired by, Moiraine has just as much right to be her own person, and not bear the weight of a family of which she is one of the best things to be said about it. 

Moiraine & Elayne’s relationship is better for being two women who recognize and acknowledge things to respect about one another, clearly and unblinkered by personal affiliation (as with Egwene, seeing Moiraine as a goal to aspire to) or antipathy (like Nynaeve makes Moiraine a scapegoat of all that has befallen the EF5), and without any false significance of a family tie both are better off without.  They are better than their paternal kindred, because Dalresin and Tarangail married a commoner and a Trakand, respectively.  If we are going to be all about their parentage instead of their own natures and actions, better to focus on those two unrelated women, than the toxic men they share kindred through.  

Unfortunately, the TV show has demonstrated a tendency to not understand the meaning of aspects of characters, and to see this sort of thing as trophies for their favorites, like making Egwene a Healer or the girls ta’veren, or giving Mat a dysfunctional family and Perrin a dead wife, so they can have Tragic Backstories.  So I can very well see them making a big to-do about Moiraine’s & Elayne’s Damodred heritage because it’s a Thing they can talk about in lieu of actual character development.  We might even see Elayne addressing Moiraine as her aunt, and it will matter no more to the plot or either character’s development than Perrin’s wife meant after the episode where she was killed, or how Mat’s family situation really affected any choices he made.  It’s lazy writing 101 - tell us stuff about the characters, instead of showing us who they are.  

been left to my own devices for too long and now i can't stop thinking about what i think worked in season 1 and what i want to happen in season 2.....

although i didn't like everything in the first season, i think that almost makes it more interesting. the show and the books are a dish best served together, where one falls short i often find the other one picks up the slack, highlighting and complimenting each other really well.

imo wot on prime is a really strong advocate for adaptations being willing to make big changes to the source material in order to either a) make the fans reconsider the work by making them see it in a new way b) changing things so long as u stay true the "spirit" of the original (hard to pin down and not everyone will agree, but im gay and moiraine ruled so they did it lol)

context established, i think one of the things ive found most disappointing in the books is how moiraine's family reveal is handled. rj kind of tees up the idea, u see mat and some of the others kind of figure she has to be highborn somehow, but he doesn't really resolve any of this just suddenly everyone knows she's a damodred despite it being a massive deal in terms of um. house damodred's role in the entire narrative history of the world up until that point

i literally couldn't stop giggling bc i assumed nynaeve specifically was going to like. capital m MURDER her murder her lmao. bc it felt like by lying by omission abt her own origin it was just one more way moiraine lied (aes sedai voice "mislead" moiraine voice "gaslight") to the two rivers kids in order to lead them into danger without potentially necessary information. maybe it was a less obviously dangerous manipulation, but to me it def reads as a straw that could very much break a braid pulling camels back

and it also feels like such a missed opportunity not to really tie in elayne to the whole thing? moiraine and her are literally related, even if their actual relationship is not super close (almost MORE interesting), and (not to get too off on my Grand Moiraine Parallel Theory) she and moiraine have a lot of Grand Parallels lol. at most obvious and most unaddressed, i think it would be smart to tackle the whole "we both have half brothers we have a touchy relationship with" thing but also i think it's really interesting to think about how they are both characters who kind of push thru others to make what they want happen but elayne has managed to wrap the quality up in some level of (obviously imperious) charm while moiraine is just. iconically off-putting lmao

tldr i hope the show is wayyyyyy more confrontational about it!!! i want yelling i want devastating speeches!!!

[c01dwitch]

the wheel of time is something that can be so... French?

[amemoryofwot]

I love you Rising Sun I love you Daes Dae’mar I love you kesiera I love you con I love you Topless Towers I love you Laman’s Pride I love you Avendoraldera I love you Kinslayers Dagger I love you Damodred family I love you Feast of Lights I love you The Silk Path I love you Cairhien

[adamreadsthewheeloftime]

I 2021 is almost over, but I managed to sneak in one new character portrait; say hello to Laman Damodred, oath breaker and tree killer. As far as I know, Laman never appears in any scene directly in any of the book, including New Spring. However, he's obviously a massive character in terms of influence, and everyone in Randland knows about Laman's Sin. Some details I highlighted: Laman's throne, made from Avendoraldera; a globe of Rand's World, with a tiny sparkling ruby on the city of Cairhein, and a gaudy, jewel encrusted sword that will one day belong to... but you guys already know that. Anyway, happy new year, everyone.

[littlecitywizard]

Some errors were made here, largely the reference to the aiel war which started because laman damodred cut down avendoraldera and had nothing to do with morgase

WOT REREAD № 71

LEIGH BUTLER

THE DRAGON REBORN

[Morgase:] “A young man who has left his small village often finds it difficult to return to it. I think you will travel far before you see Comfrey again. Perhaps you will even return to Tar Valon. If you do, and if you see my daughter, tell her that what is said in anger is often repented. I will not remove her from the White Tower before time. Tell her that I often think of my own time there, and miss the quiet talks with Sheriam in her study. Tell her that I said that, Thom Grinwell.”

I can’t figure out if this is meant to be the coded cry for help it seems like to me. Because, if Morgase was trained as a novice in the White Tower, any time she spent in the Mistress of Novices’ study is highly unlikely to have been spent in “quiet talks”. Elayne would know that, but Gaebril/Rahvin would not, so it could have been a subconscious attempt on Morgase’s part to alert Elayne that something was wrong.

However, since Morgase was only trained in the Tower for political reasons, and since everyone knew she was (a) never going to be Aes Sedai and (b) the future queen of Andor and thus Kind Of A Big Deal, it’s possible that her training was not nearly as rigorous as a “real” novice’s would be. So maybe she did hang out with Sheriam in her study and chat, for all we know.

So, dunno. But I greatly prefer the former possibility, as an early and nicely subtle flag to the reader that something is seriously awry with Morgase, so we’ll go with that, shall we?

“I do not know,” Tallanvor said softly. “There is too much I do not know. Sometimes I think she is trying to say something…”

Ah, okay. So it was a coded cry for help. I forgot about this exchange until I just now reread it, but maybe I remembered it subliminally, or something. Go me!

[liandrinmoiraine]

EOTW: Chapters 4 - 6

General thoughts:

Hello Thom Merrilin

No but seriously, I really like his introduction here, and though I understand (I think) why they introduce him later in the show, I really like his introduction in the book

The scenes where Rand runs from the Trolloc, and where he interacts with the Trolloc are absolutely thrilling to read

Rand's slow realisation that all the stories were true is absolutely frightening

And Rand struggling with the revelation that he is adopted is absolutely heart wrenching and him trying to deny it and grapple with his heritage is so realistic and I like that Jordan doesn't disregard it

Basically I love Rand

Specific thoughts under cut:

Thom's obvious distrust towards Moiraine and her saying about whether she likes his stories: "That is a matter of taste. (...) Some stories I like, some I do not." It is all gold, and though i do not look forward to their romance plot (siuanraine endgame for life already, i am gay what can i say), I did really enjoy this interaction.

Everything that happens in chapter 4 I love actually, it's the last one before we get into the whole plot thing

Rand feeling guilty that he runs to safety the moment his father tells him is so pure

I love that they turned the name Coplin into a local saying, strangely realistic I think honestly. Definitely something my friends and I would do with teachers in high school and stuff

Tam is so interesting I wanna know more!! I wanna know more about that man! What is up with the sword, who is he?? who did he fight for?? who are all these people and what are their pasts?? What is Avendoraldera?? AAAAAHHH SO CURIOUS

"Light who am I" the best boy Rand. You are the best boy.

The plot is afoot!

[wotliveblog]

House Damodred had a deservedly unpleasant reputation before Laman cut down Avendoraldera and lost the throne and his life for it. Since the Aiel War, it has grown worse, also deservedly.

Moiraine is not just some random nobody.  She’s from the house that cut down the Aiel’s favorite tree this side of the Dragonwall. 

I’m not sure what this means for her exactly.  Maybe she was born with a chip on her shoulder and something to prove.  But as I understand it, once someone becomes Aes Sedai they no longer belong to their previous family and culture (with the exception of the Caemlyn royal family, I guess.)  They’re something new. 

But I wonder if any Aiel would make the connection.

[summerseachild]

You know you’ve been in a fandom for a long time when you realize that your pronunciation of some of the Old Tongue words in Wheel of Time this time around is being influenced by how the LotR actors pronounced Elvish and it’s WILD.

Probably for the best. Twelve year old me pronounced “Avendoraldera” and “Manatherendrelle” like an American trying to speak a foreign language and failing. Elvish influenced pronunciations are much prettier. (Anyone bringing up the mostly useless pronunciation guide in the back of the book will get an eye roll.)

If I can get my mouth to make the disctinction clear between my old and new in-my-Head pronunciations, I’ll make a recording and show you what I mean.

Also: snarky quote of today’s re-read...

An AES SEDAI? In EMONDS FIELD? It’s more likely than you think...

[onaperduamedee]

This is premium ship manifesto that I am sorry to add onto with my wailing. Your post articulates so well the appeal of their relationship, beyond romance.

Perhaps one of the most famous french quotes about friendship is from Michel de Montaigne's Les Essais. Trying to explain his feelings for friend Étienne de la Boétie, he maintains that in friendship, souls mingle and blend into each other to the point where the seam that joined them disappear and that "if one presses me to say why I loved him, I feel it cannot be expressed, only by answering: because it was him; because it was me." (traduction mine)

The most touching element about their relationship is how little need there is for the other to exist as anything but what she is. Other point of view characters will always reflect on how scary, cold or harsh both are. Yet, when they meet again in The Great Hunt, they hug each other warmly and Siuan reminds her that Moiraine "[is] the only one [...] with whom [she] can remember who [she was]. In New Spring Moiraine reflects" "She had never been as close to anyone as she was to Siuan. Or loved anyone as much."

Like their dedication to the Dragon Reborn, there is a certain intrinsigence to their affection: while the world would want them to be softer, they remain exactly who they have always been, Siuan and Moiraine, and love and trust each other exactly as they are. They didn't change each other, they changed together and in parallel as the mission required.

However lacking in emotion and care Min or Egwene perceive Moiraine and Siuan, they remain complete in each other's eyes, trusting the other with the fate of the world. As magnificently explained in the post above, they do not trust anyone else with it, not the Dragon Reborn, not their warders. The leeway and protection Siuan gives Moiraine in handling the search and the length to which Moiraine goes to preserve Siuan's position, although much of her protecting goes into the unsaid, as much as the acceptance of said shielding for people who are used to doing the shielding themselves, are declaration of love enough.

I would add that we do see Moiraine threatening Thom to keep Siuan's involvement a secret in The Shadow Rising in the most dramatic, threatening manner:

"An Aes Sedai with connections high in the White Tower, I would say, else she’d not risk what she has. Someone in the Hall of the Tower? More than one, I’d say; it would have to be. News of that would shake the world. But why should there be trouble? Perhaps it’s best to leave an old gleeman tucked away in his hole in the servants’ quarters. Just an old gleeman playing his harp and telling his tale. Tales that harm no one."

If he had managed to stagger her even a fraction, she did not show it. "Speculation without facts is always dangerous," she said calmly. "I do not use my House name, by choice. House Damodred had a deservedly unpleasant reputation before Laman cut down Avendoraldera and lost the throne and his life for it. Since the Aiel War, it has grown worse, also deservedly."

They are implacable when it comes to each other.

Thinking all day today about how intensely romantic it is to me that Moiraine's literal narrative designated role in the both the books and show is that of Protector, how she spends basically her entire screentime and pagetime protecting and shielding the EF5 and Lan and even random innocent bystanders, and how Siuan is the only person in book and show that she escapes this narrative role with.

To begin with, Jordan very intentionally crafted Moiraine to be the Gandalf of the story, but even aside from that meta note, it is easy to see narratively that from the very start Moiraine's self-designated job in the show and books is to shield and protect the EF5 - especially Rand but everyone else too - from every danger that comes their way until she can get them to the Last Battle, no matter how hard they try to resist their fate.

Even Lan, her stalwart companion of 20+ years, doesn't escape this fierce protectiveness, despite his whole-hearted willingness to accept the same dangers she herself faces. In the show, leaving Lan behind to go to the Eye of the World inarguably makes things harder for Moiraine, but it's her way of ensuring he doesn't get caught in the crossfire of the prophecies and die, even though she readily accepts this fate for herself. In the books, passing Lan's bond is something even the people closest to her disapprove of, but she does it anyway because she's seen all the possible futures, and she knows that this is literally the ONLY way to get him out alive, even if he won't thank her for it. In both book and show, she protects him even against his own wishes, just as she does with the EF5.

Her protectiveness even extends to people who seem inconsequential in her fight against the Shadow. Basel Gill is just a common innkeeper. He's not Aes Sedai, he's not royalty, he's not even particularly rich. The only remarkable things about him are that he's unfailingly loyal to Moiriane, and kind to anyone who needs help. And Moiraine is FURIOUS that Elaida might have harmed him as collateral damage in her quest to her find out what Moiraine is up to. Her icy fury is only assuaged when Siuan personally assures her that he's safe. Again and again throughout the story, despite being mistrusted by so many people, Moiraine acts as protector to even the most seemingly insignificant people, and to me personally, that's the real reason why she deserves to succeed in her quest to fight the shadow, not because she's the narrative-designated good guy or whatever.

And then, there's Siuan.

Siuan is really the only person whom Moiraine never seems to show protective inclinations towards. If anything, for once it's the opposite. In the books, Siuan openly says that most of her problems dealing with the Aes Sedai stem from Moiraine, because the Aes Sedai think Siuan should control Moiraine's actions more and bring her to heel. Siuan's trial - sham though it was - doesn't hinge on the fact that she supports Rand, but on the fact that she conspired for 20+ years with Moiraine to find him. In the show, the danger that supporting Moiraine's quest puts Siuan in is even starker because of how politically DEVASTATING the consequences of exiling Moiraine are going to be for Siuan. The Blue Ajah has loyally stood behind Siuan through her tenure as Amyrlin, and what does Siuan do in return for them? In a time when they're being attacked by every Ajah, Siuan exiles Moiraine - one of the strongest, most talented, and most well-regarded Blue Ajah members - over a petty adolescent rivalry, thereby effectively proving to the Blue Ajah that she cares nothing for their stalwart loyalty to her. Siuan knows how bad this is going to look. She knows that with this exile, she'll solidify her view in the Aes Sedai's eyes as a trifling tyrant, who puts petty enmities above the Tower's wellbeing, and that she'll lose the loyalty of the only Ajah in the entire tower that once whole-heartedly supported her. She does it anyway because she knows the fate of the world is more important than securing her own position.

And Moiraine lets it happen, both in the books and show, she expects Siuan to shoulder that cost, because Siuan is the one person whom she's willingly met on an equal plane, the only person besides herself whom she's willing to let shoulder the full consequences of the quest. It goes beyond them being lovers (although personally I'd argue this is WHY they're lovers), it even goes beyond them being partners who started the quest together when they were barely out of childhood. Moiraine, who looks into all the possible futures that could lead to the Light's victory and defeat, who looks into all the lives that would need to be saved or sacrificed in the timeline where the Light wins, probably knows exactly what fate awaits Siuan, and she lets it happen, because they're equals in a way that goes far beyond rank or birth or experience, and it so fucking romantic precisely because it eclipses even the usual trappings of romance. Because she knows Siuan wouldn't be Siuan, any more than Moiraine would be Moiraine, if she doesn't do what needs to be done in order for the Light to win, even if it means sacrificing her own life. Moiraine is the one on the quest, but Siuan is whom she relies on to build the foundation to keep her quest going, even if it means the path crumbles at Siuan's heels.

Just... GOD. Other ships can keep their overwrought proclamations of undying love and desire and whatnot. To me, the most romantic thing in the world is narrative-designated Protector Moiraine Damodred looking at Siuan Sanche and going "this is the one person i don't instinctively feel the need to protect and shield from life's harms". To me, it's so intensely romantic that in both show and book canon she looks at Siuan surrounded in a death trap by a group of the most powerful and smartest women in the world and peaces out going "she's not stuck in a room with y'all, y'all are stuck in a room with her, good fucking luck. YEET."

[iviarellereads]

The Eye of the World, Chapter 6 - The Westwood

(THIS PROJECT IS SPOILER FREE! No spoilers past the chapter you click on. Curious what I'm doing here? Read this post! For the link index and a primer on The Wheel of Time, read this one! Like what you see? Send me a Ko-Fi.)

(Heron-marked sword icon) In which we get an awful lot of questions for so early in the game.

Tam's injury looks small, and shallow, but it's the only mark on him to explain his fever.(1) Rand has a moment of panic over knowing he's just met a Trolloc, then gets to the business of escape.

As Rand gets ready to drag Tam through the forest, Tam mistakes Rand for his wife, Kari, fifteen years dead. Rand makes a litter of the blankets and cart shafts, fastens the sword belt around his waist (which feels strange and wrong) then starts hauling Tam toward town, getting more and more tired with every step as the adrenaline starts to wear off.

At one point, Tam starts muttering about "they came over the Dragonwall like a flood" just as Rand spots the black rider and Trollocs, but they pass quickly. Tam continues about Laman's pride, avendoraldera, someone making five hundred years of peace when they never make peace, and the blood the price of it all.(2) Rand muses that the stories say avendesora is the tree of life, and belongs to the Green Man, but he's never heard of a sapling. But who knows, he might yet meet the Green Man, or an ogier, or a wild, black-veiled Aielman.

Then Tam changes his subject.

“. . . battles are always hot, even in the snow. Sweat heat. Blood heat. Only death is cool. Slope of the mountain . . . only place didn’t stink of death. Had to get away from smell of it . . . sight of it. . . . heard a baby cry. Their women fight alongside the men, sometimes, but why they had let her come, I don’t . . . gave birth there alone, before she died of her wounds. . . . covered the child with her cloak, but the wind . . . blown the cloak away. . . . child, blue with the cold. Should have been dead, too. . . . crying there. Crying in the snow. I couldn’t just leave a child. . . . no children of our own. . . . always knew you wanted children. I knew you’d take it to your heart, Kari. Yes, lass. Rand is a good name. A good name.�� Suddenly Rand’s legs lost the little strength they had. Stumbling, he fell to his knees.(3)

Rand falls, jarring Tam on the litter. He tells himself it's just some weird fever dream, and aloud he tells Tam he knows he's his father. He gets to his feet and keeps telling himself that the rest of the way into town, because if Tam isn't his father, then who under the Light is Rand?(4)

=====

(1) Some kind of poison, or magical corruption? They were giant half-animal people, so anything's possible. (2) What a bunch of weird words and terms to drop on us all at once here. What do you think any of them could mean? (3) Yeah, that's not how anyone wants to find out they're adopted. (4) Rand's total insistence on Tam being his father is so heart-wrenching. Because, of course he is! He's the man who raised you, who taught you all you know, he's the man who nurtured you your whole life and never gave you a reason to doubt his love and support for you. Action and choice and love make family, Rand. Blood is just blood.

[birgittesilverbae]

Avendesora is the last surviving chora tree and the one in Rhuidean, Avendoraldera is the cutting of Avendesora that was given to the Cairhienin

I've been calling both chora trees "Avendesoraldera" for sixteen years and I'm not about to stop now

[weepformanetheren]

avendoraldera replied to your post: Baby Rand is equally useless to me as Baby...

Moiraine is the best character ever.

=nods solemnly= The Wheel weaves as Moiraine wills.

[weepformanetheren]

avendoraldera replied to your post: avendoraldera replied to your post: It is so weird...

I pronounced Thom as it’s spelled and not Tom, though.

I definitely did, too. Still do, in my head. Reason 148 that all my WoT friends are online.