#atu 425c

[chaos-has-theories]

For the FURTHER record, you could also make a gorgeous Beamont/Villeneuve fusion Girl Genius Beauty and the Beast AU.

There is a castle with invisible servants (Castle Heterodyne). There is a monster on a hill (the ancient Heterodynes). There are two princes between which the lady thinks she must choose, even though she can keep both (Gil and Tarvek). One is good with words; the other isn't, and that one isn't fully human either.

It gets tangled up of course by AGATHA being the Beast, but don't you think that's beautiful?

[krsonmar]

For those asking for a full version translated to English, this one in an anthology of fairy tales translated from French might or might not be the exact, correct one (I haven't read the whole thing yet) but it is roughly 100 pages long and has de Villaneuve's name on it. Scroll down to the Table of Contents and then you can hop right to the story from there. It is 100% free because public domain and also because, as always, PROJECT GUTENBERG AND INTERNET ARCHIVE FTW!!!

What we really need is an adaptation of the original 1740 The Beauty and the Beast

So were you aware that the The Beauty and the Beast story we all know is a heavily abridged and rewritten version of a much longer novella by Gabrielle-Suzanne Barbot de Villeneuve?  And that a lot of the plot holes existing in the current versions exist because the 1756 rewrite cut out the second half of the novella, which consisted entirely of the elaborate backstory that explains all the weird shit that happened before?  And that the elaborate backstory is presented in a way that’s kind of boring because the novel had only just been invented in 1740 and no one knew how they worked yet, but contains a bazillion awesome ideas that beg for a modern retelling?  And that you are probably not aware that the modern world needs this story like air but the modern world absolutely needs this story like air?  Allow me to explain:

The totally awesome elaborate backstory that explains Beauty and the Beast

Once upon a time there was a king, a queen, and their only son

But while the prince was still in his infancy, in a neat reversal of how these fairy tales usually go, the king tragically died, leaving his wife to act as Regent until their son reaches maturity

Unfortunately, the rulers of all the lands surrounding them go, “Hmm, the kingdom is ruled by a woman now, it must be weak, time for an invasion!”

And the Queen goes, “Well, if I let some general fight all these battles for me, he’ll totally amass enough fame and power to make a bid for the throne; if I want to protect my son’s crown, I have no choice but to take up arms and lead the troops myself!”

(Btw, I want to stress that this woman is not Eowyn or Boudica and nothing in the way her story is presented suggests that she had any interest martial exploits before or in any way came to enjoy them during these battles.  This is a perfectly ordinary court lady who would much rather be embroidering altar covers for the royal chapel and playing with her child until necessity made her go, “Oh no, this sucks, I guess I have to become a Warrior Queen now” and she just happened to kick ass at it anyway.)

And the Queen totally kicked ass, but the whole “twice as good for half the credit” thing meant that no matter how many battles she won, potential enemies refused to take her and her army seriously until she had defeated them so no sooner would she fend off one invasion than another one would pop up on a different border.

So she spent the majority of her young son’s life away from the castle leading armies, but it was OK because she left him in the care of her two best friends, who just happen to be fairies!  This was an awesome idea because a) fairies have magic, and therefore are like the best people to protect the prince from any threats and b) fairies consider themselves to be so above humanity that the lowest fairy outranks the highest mortal, so they’d have no interest in taking a human throne.  Good thing they were both good fairies instead of one good and one evil one!

(Spoiler:  they were not both good fairies.)

So the two fairies basically take turns raising the prince until he’s old enough to rule.  And on the eve of his twenty-first birthday, the evil older one comes into the prince’s bedroom.

“So listen, kid.  You’re about to become king, your mother’s on her way home from the war to see you crowned, and I have a third piece of good news for you!  You see, I’ve actually been spending so much time here lately because Fairyland’s become a bit too hot to hold me for reasons totally not related to me being secretly evil.  And if I have to hang in the human world, I might as well reside in the upper echelons of it, so even though as a powerful fairy I completely eclipse your puny human status in a staggeringly unimaginable way, since you’re about to be king and since my premonition that I should stick this whole guardianship thing out because you would be hot one day has totally proved accurate (go me), I will graciously lower myself to allowing you to marry me.  Please feel free to grovel at my feet in gratitude.  (Btw, we can totally start the wedding night now, we’ll tell your mother about it when she arrives tomorrow.)”

Keep reading

[rapha-reads]

So I'm reading Echo North by Joanna Ruth Meyer, and I absolutely adore how it's a mix of all these tales I spent five months studying for my thesis. It's the entire ATU 425 tale type category at once*. A bit of Beauty and the Beast, a bit of Cupid and Psyche, a bit of East of the Sun and West of the Moon... When you know what you're looking at, it's so interesting to analyse it all.

*ATU= Aarne-Thompson-Uther Index, a classification of as many of the folktales and fairytales indexed around the world and the centuries, catalogued after their structures (their type). ATU 425: "The Search for the Lost Husband". ATU 425A: "Animal as Bridegroom" -> East of the Sun and West of the Moon (and The Serpent Prince, the Pig King...). ATU 425B: "Son of the Witch" -> Cupid and Psyche (also The Son of the Ogress, Tale of Baba Yaga...). ATU 425C: "Beauty and the Beast". There are a few more types (it goes to 425E), but these three are the main ones.

[horizon-verizon]

Big unpopular opinion - I really dislike the saying, "Laena tamed the rogue prince," especially the people who still use that saying for show daemon. They had viserys say, "daemon and rhaenyra share the blood of the dragon they are restless and chaotic" and I feel like that goes for both book/show daemon and rhaenyra and it really describes daemon perfectly. I love daemon and Laena's relationship especially book version but I wouldn't describe it as she "tamed him" it gets worse when i see the nettles and daemon shippers say the same thing that nettles "tamed daemon"

A) Agreement

I dislike it as well, since it makes Daemon seem more an animal than a human AND in the show we see Daemon broken or worn down by his separation from Rhaenyra and his dreams of Targ dragonriding glory, himself driving that glory for his house.

He wasn’t tamed, he seemed to lose a huge chunk of drive. Canonically, you could say Laena gave Daemon room to really indulge and explore his tenderer side, thus his leeway and becoming a father. But he never actually lost his quintessential "fire". Like Harwin for Rhaenyra, she gave him emotional safety.

B) Myth and Storytelling

The idea that anyone can be "tamed" through a relationship comes from people looking at the oversimplified or just misunderstood stories adapting from the tale of Beauty and the Beast archetype (not Disney; ATU 425 “Animal as Bridegroom”: ). Tales where a woman “taming” the bestial, undesirable behavior of a man or removing those qualities that the audience/society does not want or list as taboo.

Here is a description of “Animal as Bridegroom” (the super category) indexed as “The Search for the Lost Husband” in ATU:

refers to a group of folk and fairy tales about a human woman marrying or being betrothed to an animal. The animal is revealed to be a human prince in disguise or under a curse.

“Animal as Bridegroom” [ATU 425A]:

In folktales classified as tale type ATU 425A, "The Animal as Bridegroom", the maiden breaks a taboo or burns the husband's animal skin and, to atone, she must wear down a numbered pair of metal shoes.

“Son of the Witch (The Witch's Tasks)” [ATU 425B]:

This category of tales involves the heroine performing difficult tasks for her husband's family (more specifically, her mother-in-law). In this type, the heroine reaches the house of a witch (sometimes, her mother-in-law; sometimes, another female relative of her husband), where she works as her servant. One of the tasks is to go to another witch's house, and fetch from there a box, a casket, a bag, a sack of something that her husband warns not to open, but she does.

And “Beauty and the Beast” [ATU 425C]

Zipes summarized the tale thus: the third or youngest daughter asks her father (a merchant or king) for a gift (bird or flower). The only place he can find such a trifle is the garden of the beast or monster, who demands the merchant/king's daughter in return. Richard MacGillivray Dawkins, in turn, remarked that the heroine's sisters asked their father for material possessions (e.g., dresses), whereas she asks for a simple token that will lead her to the enchanted prince. 

Uther remarks that this type contains the "presents for the daughters", lacking, however, a quest for the lost spouse.

But GRRM tends to subvert tales, not retell them 1:1, and we see it in Sansa’s story of always being paired with the conventionally unattractive, bestialized man.

And the idea, when focusing on how there is taming, is very metaphorically murderous. Check out rhaenyragendereuphoria’s post HERE. 

[donewithmygracelessheart]

Please suggest me ATU 425 books (specially 425c)!

[kellyvela]

Did you know that there is a version of Beauty and the Beast where the Beast is a white wolf???

The Beast is a White Wolf???

THE BEAST IS A WHITE WOLF???

Yes, there is a French version of Beauty and the Beast called 'Le Loup Blanc' (The White Wolf) that appears in the book Contes Populaires de Lorraine by Emmanuel Cosquin, published in 1887. 

And if I think about a white wolf is really hard not to associated it with Jon Snow and his own white wolf, Ghost.

As I said before, Sansa and Jon fit perfectly in the classic roles of Beauty and the Beast, so this new discovery is really interesting.

More under the cut.

There are various online sources of 'Le Loup Blanc' in French, its original language. Sadly, I haven’t found an english translation of the complete tale, just a synopsis in Spanish and an english translation of the ending.     

But, from the synopsis in Spanish and the google translation of the French sources, I can tell you the following: 

A father has three daughters and before he goes on a trip, his two older daughters ask him for gifts.

The youngest daughter asks for nothing, but at his father insistence she asks him to bring her a “talking rose”.

The father gets surprised by his youngest daughter’s request because he never heard of a “talking rose” before, but he accepts the request anyway.  

As expected, the father can't find a “talking rose” anywhere, not until he found a beautiful castle where he discovers a bush of roses that could talk and sing.

The father takes one of the talking roses but at that moment the White Wolf appears saying that the father must die for taking the rose. 

The father begs for his life and tells the White Wolf that his youngest daughter asked him to bring her a talking rose.

At the father’s confession, the White Wolf tells him he will be pardoned and allowed to keep the talking rose only if he accepts to bring the first person he meets at home to him.

The first person the father meets at home is his youngest daughter.

The girl accepts to go to the White Wolf’s castle in her father’s place. The father takes the girl to the castle.

The White Wolf reveals, among other details, that he was cursed to be a white wolf but only during the day. At night he returns to his human form. 

The White Wolf asked them to keep his secrets.

The secrets are revealed at the end and...   

...Unfortunately, the tale has an unhappy ending. 

Talking about unhappy endings, Heidi Anne Heiner, the author of the book Beauty and the Beast Tales From Around the World, tells us:

Finally, the third and final unhappy ending in Beauty and the Beast Tales From Around the World is found in a tale that I translated myself for the book, The White Wolf. There are three tales by that title in the book, but this version was originally "Le Loup blanc” from Contes Populaires de Lorraine by Emmanuel Cosquin, a French tale. To my knowledge it has never been published in English translation before.

It is a short tale and is a straightforward ATU 425C (Beauty and the Beast) tale. But it is especially abbreviated for it ends like this:

After spending another night at the castle, the father returned home. The girl remained and soon began to enjoy the castle. She discovered all that she could desire, each day there were music concerts and nothing was forgotten for her entertainment. However, her mother and her sisters were filled with anxiety. They said, “Where is our poor child?” and “Where is our sister?” The father, upon his return, at first would not tell what had transpired, but in the end he yielded to their entreaties and told them where he had left his daughter. One of the eldest visited the sister and asked her what had happened. The girl resisted for a long time, but her sister persisted and ultimately she revealed her secret. Immediately, they heard horrible screams. The girl stood up, shuddering with fright. As soon as she went outside, the white wolf came to die at her feet. She then comprehended her mistake, but it was too late and she was unhappy for the rest of her life.

That one is particularly brutal for she has no second chances, no way to redeem herself for simply revealing the secret which most tales in this group provide so she can find redemption. Which makes it all the more fascinating. [Source]

How dare you?

Despite the unhappy ending, let’s talk about all the new information. Now we know that, according to Heidi Anne Heiner, there are at least three versions of Beauty and the Beast called “The White Wolf”, versions she compiled in her book, although I’m not sure if the three of them have the same sad ending.     

The rose in this tale is not just a rose, but a talking and singing rose. Roses and Songs are two themes that reminds me of Sansa Stark.

The White Wolf being a secret prince reminds me of Jon Snow. 

The prince's curse, being a white wolf during the day and returning to his human form at night, reminds me of Jon's ability of warg inside his albino direwolf, Ghost. It also reminds me of the possibility of Jon living inside Ghost before his resurrection.

Also, in the Show, during his proclamation as King in the North, Jon was called “The White Wolf”.

The promise of keeping the White Wolf’s secrets reminds me of Jon’s true parentage secret and Ned’s promise to protect him of the dangers its revelation could create.  

In the tale, the White Wolf asks the father and daughter not to tell anyone what they see and hear at the castle, but both of them breaks their promise. While the father only reveals the castle’s location, the girl reveals the White Wolf true identity.

I know there is not certainty that the Books ending being the same as the Show ending, but this tale unhappy conclusion reminds me of what happened in the Show: Sansa revealing Jon’s true parentage and Jon not “entirely” forgiving her for doing that, no matter her good intentions. 

There is also no certainty that GRRM knows about this particular version of Beauty and the Beast; this could be only an interesting coincidence.   

On a happier note, I found this beautiful fan-art of the tale:

(Art credit: Le Loup blanc by Sieskja) 

You can read the 'Le Loup Blanc' tale here (French - Complete Book), here (French - PDF), here (French - Complete Tale) and here (Spanish - Synopsis).

The author of the book Beauty and the Beast Tales From Around the World, also has a very extensive list of tales similar to Beauty and the beast that you can check here.

And on an even happier note, I must tell you that in many illustrations of Beauty and the Beast tales, Beauty is a redhead girl [you can see them here and here], and I will leave you with my favorite one:

This illustration came from: Boyle, Eleanor Vere. Beauty and the Beast: An Old Tale New-Told. London: Sampson Low, Marston, Low, and Searle, 1875.

[vesperlionheart]

February is for Fairytales

Maybe you do or don’t know that I’m a hardcore sucker for fairytales and love them dearly like I do my creative writing. (Sources: The Black Bull, Lindworm & the Tam Lin Love a Changling, The Spirit of the Oasis.) February is a short month perfect for short works. Other months may (or may not) have their own themes for me to work on but February is for Fairytales.

Here are some of my fav tropes organized by the ATU index. Pick one out and send me one along with a pairing. I’ll choose a couple to work on during the month of February.

Aarne–Thompson-Uther type #

425— the search for the lost husband

510A —Cinderella

507A— The monster's bride

330 —The Smith and the Devil

300 —The dragon-slayer

302 — The ogre's /(devil's) heart in the egg

433A — The prince as serpent: A serpent carries a princess into its castle

451 — The maiden who seeks her brothers

471 — The bridge to the other world

400 — The man on a quest for his lost wife  

425C—Beauty and the Beast

Do you have a favorite fairytale or myth? Maybe a favorite trope or theme? Maybe just a setting or maybe just a pairing? Feel free to get a little creative and ignore the bullet points.

[intothestacks]

This isn’t entirely accurate. (It’s not entirely wrong either.)

I’ve taken a university course on oral storytelling traditions (aka folktales), so let me explain something:

Folklore can be categorized based on theme and plot. 

“Beauty and the Beast” is categorized as a 425 tale, aka “The Search for the Lost Husband” (or more specifically, a 425C tale) by the ATU index system used by folklorists, the oldest of which is the tale of Cupid and Psyche.

However, one of the several French versions (The Story of the Beauty and the Beast by Gabrielle-Suzanne Barbot de Villeneuve, if memory serves) was inspired by real-life events as well as several of the already-existing versions of the tale.

[chaos-has-theories]

ALSO also i promise this isn't just the brainworms talking but. His Majesty's Dragon is a Beauty and the Beast narrative

[chaos-has-theories]

"Beastly" by Alex Flinn is a surprisingly excellent Beauty and the Beast retelling - it has the Beast as an actual Beast. It has the bear from "Snow White and Rose Red" using a laptop in the forest. It has the mc changing his name and fully working on himself even before the girl shows up. It has rather sweet flower symbolism that actually works.

The movie, of course, has literally none of those things. But even so. EVEN SO.

The one thing I cannot forgive is Neil Patrick Harris as Will the Tutor.

[chaos-has-theories]

People think a Beauty and the Beast relationship chart is a simple matter of

but actually it's more like a big ball of. Um

[chaos-has-theories]

[The Amazon Queen] scoffed at the imaginary honor that this Intelligence offered her. . . Thus, without responding as the old Fairy desired, she stood motionless and fixed her eyes upon me. I was as astonished as she was; we exchanged glances with the same look on our faces, and the old Fairy recognized quickly from our silence that our feelings were the exact opposite of the joy she expected to inspire in us. “What does this mean?” she said bitterly. “Why do mother and son remain silent? Has this delightful surprise deprived you of the ability to speak? Or are you blind and brazen enough to reject my offer? Speak, Prince,” she said to me, “will you be ungrateful and imprudent enough to despise my kind offer? Do you not consent at once to give me your hand?”

Gabrielle-Suzanne de Villeneuve: Beauty and the Beast (trans. Aurora Wolfgang)

Old Fairy: i want to marry my godson

The Prince and his mother, having not seen each other in years and yet sharing the exact same side-eye:

[chaos-has-theories]

Belle: i wish i could live in the city

literally everyone: 👉 AUTISM

[chaos-has-theories]

Personally I think that, having written it out like that, I should be able to just call my paper finished and get an automatic A

[chaos-has-theories]

According to Freud, the family romance first takes shape at a time when a child begins to liberate himself from parental authority... He fancies himself the child of a prominent statesman, a millionaire, an aristocratic landowner-of a person appointed with the very qualities in which his own parents seem most wanting... Freud further observed that although the new, exalted parents are equipped with the attributes of the actual, humble parents and that the child's family romance thus reflects nostalgia for the days when his own mother and father seemed the most noble persons on earth (and when he basked in the light of their glory), he identified an element of revenge and retaliation in the minds of these young romancers. Nostalgia and revolt, exaltation and debasement, reconciliation and revenge: these are the twin motors driving the family romance.

Tatar, Maria. "3. VICTIMS AND SEEKERS. The Family Romance of Fairy Tales". The Hard Facts of the Grimms' Fairy Tales: Expanded Edition, Princeton: Princeton University Press, 2019, pp. 74

--

Giving Siegmund Freud access to a Tapas account just to see what happens

[chaos-has-theories]

my problem is that. I imprinted so hard on the "Be the Serpent" podcast that I need to very carefully tell myself that no, I can't just pick a book a movie and a fanfic to explain my thoughts when I am writing my BACHELOR'S THESIS. but man do I want to