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goldentigerfestival · 5 months ago

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Since I'd been talking a lot about JP Vesperia (primarily Yuri and Flynn and the heavy changes that surround them, and because I'm highly passionate about them in their original context), I wanted to compile some more jarring if not outright glaring mistakes in the localization (or what were likely intentional changes, because I can't look at some of these and just call them "mistakes"). I'm not going to mention every little change throughout the game, so smaller things I'll mostly be leaving out (namely things that don't really affect characters or context). I primarily just wanted to give some insight on some of the bigger parts.

Some of the changes seem to have been mistakes in translation itself (not just localization, but misunderstanding what was being said in general; such as, there's an instance I mention of that between Patty and Don), so I've got some mentions hanging around for clarity purposes as some scenes didn't make much sense, likely because of this.

Vocal tone with Yuri was the most prominent issue that got me making this, and the context that was changed being right after if not equally next to that (most often also with Yuri but also Flynn).

This is something that has been bothering me for a while and I've been wanting to share this stuff with people interested in seeing the game with its original context. Generally speaking, the plot and story themselves are on point. The majority of the differences surround Yuri and Flynn respectively, so there's going to be a lot of mention of them throughout.

I've also posted video clips of my favorite scenes and the heavy changes, so consider those a supplement to this and vice versa.

Part 2.

Part 3.

Part 4.

(Other) GTF Favorites.

I'd like to preface this by mentioning the chief director and producer of the game itself has also spoken about localization inaccuracy issues, so that's something to keep in mind (it's in Japanese, but you should be able to use the offered post translator).

I'd also like to preface this by mentioning that in the original, Yuri is more playful and relaxed/casual (generally but including with Flynn, which the dub pretty much entirely changed until arc 3), but also gentler and softer. He has a very large variety of tonal behaviors/tonal "moods" that were pretty much nuked from the dub.

Basically, to get the full experience for Yuri, I can only really recommend playing the game in JP audio. Obviously you won't get the actual context because all you'll have is the dub context, but that's also partly why I'm making these posts - to cover the contextual changes while the video clips cover some of the tonal changes (because lbh I don't expect anyone to actually go watch the entire game in JP with subtitles unless you're as insanely dedicated as I am, and I'm largely doing it out of my love for the original Yuri and Flynn and my disdain for how the localization treated them).

As a heads up, there won't be many skits in here because I'm going through a specific YT playthrough for these screenshots. Specific skits won't always come up in the playthrough in question, and I can't find a whole list of skits in JP anywhere online. I don't have all skits unlocked in my own save either yet (you can unlock all skits with Grade which I have yet to do in the DE), so I can't use that to compare all skits right now.

There are plenty of small changes here and there that I won't be including in these posts because there are some sentence changes that aren't impactful but do exist. I just don't want to be here for a year covering the random changes that don't matter much. I'm also not going to include details of a lot of honorifics because I'd be here all day, but there is one one major instance that I mention later on.

For reference if anything wants to actually watch the game in JP with the subs (it goes until just after Hypionia), most of the references come from here. Since in some cases the subber just reused localized text even when the context wasn't the same, I did bring some of those up in these posts too. These were subbed before the DE version came out. I used screenshots with subs where possible to make it easier to follow along.

I have a lot of passion for JP Yuri and I hope I can pass on some of that passion to others. 🙏

Apologies in advance if some of these sound cranky. If I sound cranky about some specific changes, it's probably because I am.

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Since I talked about the whole, Raven being shady and Yuri therefore not being grateful to him incident that the localization for some reason butchered and made Yuri sound like a generally ungrateful or just outright dumb person who doesn't understand gratitude, I'll summarize that one again here:

Yuri has a skit with Estelle originally talking about how he can't find himself being grateful to someone like Raven for showing him how to sneak out of the castle. Basically, Raven is shady and he's not sure he should be grateful to someone like that, and is confused as to why Estelle would be so grateful when she doesn't even know him (because in his mind, he isn't sure he wants to trust a guy with those vibes). The dub just kinda... makes him sound like an ungrateful jerk and not so much because he's not sure he wants to trust Raven. It doesn't really sound like it's an issue of his with Raven specifically but more that he just generally doesn't feel grateful for the aid (and that in general one shouldn't feel grateful for aid like this), which gives off a really wrong impression of him that doesn't hold up throughout the game. Yuri wasn't wholly ungrateful for the gesture itself, but because of who it came from (and I imagine a weird peppy guy in jail is good cause to be skeptical).

We start off we a classic "Yuri, you idiot!" that was changed to "come on already!".

Yuri's response to Estelle mentioning he'd been in the knights doesn't actually give a time frame for how long he'd been there (the dub made up three months, but there was never originally even a time frame given).

Here when Yuri asks Estelle why she can't just leave, her response indicates she actually does know why. The dub made it more ambiguous, which could be easily misinterpreted as she really doesn't know, so I'm dropping this one here.

For some reason the localization seemed to have Estelle responding to Karol directly about the ace always performing their attack last ("I don't think so"). What she was referring to was the tiny monster that walked by, asking for confirmation that that monster was not the eggbear they were looking for (I wasn't gonna fight with the video to get a better screenshot without the annoying YT red bar in the way so the monster is in the corner mid-movement lol). Not sure if that was a genuine mistake, but it was an odd one.

(Also, side note and not putting an image here because it's more general, but Yuri refers to Karol as "Karol-sensei" which was translated in the localization to "Captain Karol". Basically, Yuri calls him "sensei" because that's a teacher/professor, and he's making a play on Karol's knowledge and being their "teacher" about monsters/maps/etc.)

I'd say this is more along the lines of overexaggerating and not overreacting, but this line was literally changed to "haha" in the dub. The whole point wasn't that Yuri just brushed her comment off or found it funny. At this point he still literally thinks she's exaggerating about her lack of knowledge out in the world, her excitement, etc.

Not the only instance you'll find of the dub just changing entire sentences to something meaningless as if they ??? didn't know what it meant (they actually changed Patty saying an entire sentence to "aye"). In some cases they added entire sentences that weren't even there...

Even though I can kind of see where they went with the dub here, the point was supposed to be that Flynn actively thought he would be happy for Yuri to go outside the barrier and see the world.

The dub changed this to Flynn saying that he, in the now, is happy that Yuri is outside the barrier, but then says he got a little less happy when he saw the wanted poster, indicating he was previously happy but got less happy, yet says in that moment that he is happy.

It's a weird case of (past/present) tense usage for the most part, but they also removed the fact that Flynn is literally saying "I thought I would be happy" (thus expressing he'd been wanting Yuri to see the world outside the barrier and would've been happy to find out he did). The reason he's not finding himself happy is because of the wanted poster and the crimes listed on it, following up that his honest happiness for Yuri (ultimately because of the poster) was a lie.

This also means they removed Flynn expressing the honesty of his happiness for a positive concept for Yuri, which, given all the changes toward Flynn in the dub, already now takes away from the fact that he'd been actively hoping for good things for someone and we're left with this more sarcastic take on him being "happy".

Obviously his happiness wasn't really a lie because most of the crimes were falsified (primarily the ones that would make him actually mad, because Flynn has had to have been aware this whole time that Yuri has committed small time crimes for the past few years now), but at the time, the focus on this conversation is that Flynn thought he'd be happy at a time that Yuri left the barrier; meaning he'd been hoping for it prior to it happening.

I'm also mentioning it because it's the very first in a whole line of changes the dub made to their relationship (and it's their first in game interaction ffs) and to Flynn himself as he's perceived as a character. The original is much more expressive of how important they are to each other in a lot of various ways.

Inserting the JP audio version of the following scene with Flynn here.

And... the following one from there.

This was changed to "damn, we if lose our balance...". I know they did it because Yuri had just fallen over, but I'm including this one because the context isn't... really the same thing?

This dub change is a bit odd to me. They had him saying something along the lines of "she is a princess after all" in the dub, regarding the council backing her.

The original context is more like, the council is backing her and he's hearing it directly from Ioder and he probably doubts Ioder would lie like that or about that, cementing that yes, she truly is, like he suspected, a princess, but it's almost still a bit odd to know. It's sort of like, he knew/had suspicions but hearing it directly from Ioder just confirms it for certain.

The dub just made it sound like well yeah, it's obvious they'd want to back her, she's a princess... but Ioder is a prince, so that doesn't explain why they're not backing him. She is a princess after all, so of course they'd back her... but what's stopping them from backing the prince?

Another weird one for me. In the dub Yuri says that "even the Commandant was a little in over his head", when he actually... really wasn't? All he did was step in. Things got bad enough that he had to, but he wasn't in over his head. Not sure how or why the dub ended up with that.

An example of the dub having a habit of just adding in random lines that didn't actually exist (and in this case the one added didn't even contextually make sense. This was no thank you from him, this was literally him making Yuri do something for him because he was going to ask Flynn for a favor and ended up with Yuri in the cell instead).

Another super weird one in the dub. They had Yuri saying Flynn was "too" late, implying he hadn't made it in time, but he did. He made it just before the battle started, but the original context only says he's late, not too late (which makes sense given that they were ready to fight but hadn't started yet).

This was changed to Yuri just mentioning there was one way they could get out of there without actually saying what it was, and Judith saying if he thinks it might work what's the harm in trying it out. Not sure why they changed Yuri literally telling her his plan, so... again, a super weird change that I don't get why they didn't just keep the context the way it was.

Third image was changed to "someone get me away from this psycho", which... I also don't get why they put that there unless they just wanted so much flavor text that they wanted to change the whole "they're in a fight and he's telling her not to come over here because he's pissed at her because they're fighting" part of the fake fight they had going on.

Not one I have a huge problem with, but definitely good examples of them going out of their way to change just... perfectly normal stuff that literally has no reason to be changed? Some of it is flavor text and some of it feels over the top for me. Stuff that makes me like... why would you change that when there was no reason to? Could be more of a personal pet peeve of mine, but I just don't like unnecessary changes when there was nothing wrong or odd about the original text and doesn't at all come off odd in English. Unfortunately Vesperia got littered with those.

I didn't feel like getting a whole video for this, but basically Judith gives a little laugh instead of just the more upset/distressed(?) sound she made in the dub. Feels more fitting imo to keep up the "lie" Yuri started for her. The dub makes it seem more like she feels guilty, versus here she's giving a little forced giggle to go along with it. Again, a change I'm not sure why they put in.

Ngl I get completely different vibes from these. The JP comes across more as concern, rather than... treating them like they're some mob on the loose...?

Once again, this gives off negative vibes toward Flynn as a character imo.

Here Judith gives more of a reason for coming with them, which they changed in the dub to "with the circumstances being what they are, this is just how things turned out". Reasonably, she didn't have to stick around after they ran from Dahngrest, but here she gives a quick "reason".

The dub changed this to "I'll bet he is". They were just told he's the current magistrate in Heliord, and all Yuri says here expresses he's letting it sink in and realizing exactly why all this is happening here. It's not a huge story beat or anything that gets changed, but it's an example of changing things that don't need to be changed as if trying to play things up in a way that... doesn't feel necessary to me? In this case the situation is kind of dawning on Yuri as he realizes how bad this situation could be/why it's like it is, but in the dub it comes across as more just unimpressed and "of course he'd do that".

An unfortunate, classic moment of them changing how much Yuri believes in and trusts Flynn. They changed this to "gotta run, Flynn!" and he just... leaves. I'm sorry but in what universe does "leave the rest to you" equal "gotta run"???

This one is one of those cases where the localization text was super awkward and wonky, and worse, they actually voiced it that way (like "we have guild's job to deal with". Yes, they actually voiced it that way too on top of everything else grammatically wonky with the entire conversation that they didn't bother fixing when the DE came out).

Also here, they changed what Yuri says about Cumore and Flynn. "I don't know how I could explain this to Flynn" doesn't, at least to me, carry the same weight as Yuri actually feeling ashamed (in the dub he says "what a shame", but does not express shame, versus him saying "how pathetic" and expressing shame in feeling pathetic) and saying he can't even face Flynn because Cumore got away. The thing is, Yuri does tend to posture, so when he fails at something, it hits him pretty hard.

And let's be honest, this just hits way harder than "he will get what he deserves".

Interestingly, Yuri could also fall into the category of viewing himself as sinful later on, which I talk about in my favorites post and the usage of "crime" and "sin" within the JP context.

Not particularly important, but just another (more mild) case and example of how the dub just randomly changed tone/mood/wording for no reason.

Another case of Yuri being more aggressive in the dub than he actually was. Here, all he says is just a plain statement. In the dub, he has an attitude about it and says it in a tone that's more insulting that Ioder didn't know about Heracles.

This isn't the only case of dub Yuri acting aggressively toward Ioder when he wasn't supposed to be and we'll get to that, but Ioder is another similar case of the dub making Yuri unnecessarily vocally rude (despite that Ioder is very polite toward Yuri).

(I left out the subtitles because all they did was copy the dub's localization, which kinda defeats the point of this post LOL. This will be the case going forward for any same circumstances.)

This one's a more interesting tidbit to me and less of a harmful change (i.e. I find that a lot of if not most changes relative to Flynn do more harm than good when compared with the original context). Basically it's saying "sweet mask and sharp eyes", implying Flynn's sweet face is a mask and saying it contrasts with his sharp eyes. I could get into a whole rant about why I love that in relation to some side material, but even in the game itself, there's the knight Flynn with his sweet, polite side and his real side that only shows when he's around Yuri (basically, who Flynn has to be for his job and who he actually is as a person, which he only gets to be around someone who knows the real him).

I'd guess this got changed in the dub because they weren't sure how to word it, though there's no mention of "heartthrob" here at all and instead actually says "sweet mask" as if, again, to say his sweetness is just a mask. It's actually a very interestingly accurate representation of his character - how he tends to not be himself when he's being "knight Flynn", and how that sweet face is contrasted by the look in his eyes (which they say, you know, eyes are the windows to the soul, so this would imply the sweet face is the mask and the eyes are the real Flynn. And of course, this Flynn is implied to show himself in his sparring with Yuri in Aurnion, where sword fighting is the best way to express himself. This isn't to say Flynn being a nice person in and of itself is a lie, but that his overly polite, respectful, kind knight side is a sweet mask contrasted to the man who loves to fight and has a sharp look in his eyes)

For now, we'll be back at Mantaic in the next post (due to image per post limit).

#Tales of Vesperia #GTF JP Vesperia Things #GTF Vesperia Localization Woes #really like... a lot of the time? the other characters weren't changed all that much #it's primarily Yuri who got this weird shift where they just... flattened his personality?#but some of the biggest offenders ended up being some of the most important scenes in the game which is what bothers me #and sometimes the localization is pretty much just... on point with the plot dialogue and other characters #yet for some reason they just... changed a lot of tone for Yuri?#it's just like... Yuri will have personality in his tone and they instead make dub Yuri speak it in a flat way in those moments #this did happen with the original dubbing quite a bit but it's also just SUPER noticeable with the new lines #my suggestion would be to at least play the game w/ JP dialogue and see how you feel coming out of it if you're a fan of Yuri and/or Flynn #and if you like it enough then I'd suggest watching the playthrough in JP that these screenshots came from if you're RLY dedicated lol #it's not JUST Yuri it's just /dominantly/ Yuri. other odd lines just didn't... go as hard?#like Raven and Karol especially go pretty hard on their lines in JP and the Schwann stuff with Karol was OOF #or if you'd rather just skip to watching it in JP I mean be my guest lol I just know some ppl might rather PLAY it #I just feel like... like... even tho not everything in the dub is horrendous... if you're a YURI fan?#it's hard to go back to the dub (impossible for me ngl) when you have this actual silly little guy #who is a lot more emotional and wholesome and Yuri isn't acting like he has a stick up his dubbed ass in some scenes #I still prefer the 360 version plot-wise for the most part and it's a mixed bag there a bit but #I can't get JP audio on the 360 so. it's the struggle ig.#in my case though it's this feeling of like... them wanting to create an image onto Yuri that wasn't supposed to be there?#obviously I don't know what went on in the loc room but I do know I walked out looking at dub Yuri like #him and the original Yuri aren't even the same. I get so frustrated with dub Yuri's unnecessary ATTITUDE sometimes #which wasn't ever a problem for me period in JP. he's emotional and sincere WAY more often #also lbh I cannot reasonably picture dub Yuri all dressed up and pretty the way he is in official artwork LOL #and that's the thing. I see them so differently it's like they're different people #I also just feel like the dub was like. he doesn't fit OUR vision for him. what WE want him to be like #and again I don't know what went on in that loc room but I DO know that's how I came out feeling from this game #anyway this is in hope more ppl will come to love JP Yuri's personality and stuff #but yeah more next time on ''why did you do this to my sweet baby boy''

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crest-of-gautier · 1 year ago

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pq posting before i go to bed! a shorter session (3 hours) but it was nice and i'm happy to say that i finished you in wonderland!

THIS WAS SO FUNNY... honestly i don't think i give enough credit to akihiko and mitsuru's dynamic they're literally so good i really enjoy how well they know each other but also they're like.. a constant in each other's life and i do enjoy their interactions a lot even if i never vocalize it...

wow yosuke, who would've thought that you two are partners, this guy literally introduced himself as your wife /s (i kinda regret naming souji yosuke wifey but im glad i wrote the y in lowercase bc otherwise i wouldn't be able to tell their dialogue apart 💀

and finally, yosuke <3

some more elaborate thoughts (aka speculation) under the cut because i learned my lesson from last time

ok unfortunately i can't say that im going to go AS INSANE as i did last time when i was spitballing in the tags for the second pq posting just because i feel like i aired out most of my "AAAA WHO IS ZEN AND REI??" there but.

i do have to say that i'm very glad i'm at the point where p3 and p4's casts are able to interact! i can't tell if it's because the writing feels like it shines a little bit better here rather than the solo casts (sometimes i roll my eyes at how junpei and akihiko are with some of the traits the writers play up), or if it's because i'm a guy who's very endeared by crossovers and interactions from characters who didn't exist in the original source material.

i had a lot of times where i was writing things down in my notes software during the crossover segments and im just?? really endeared and creatively inspired by it, to be honest. i really like this aspect of pq.

i think something that catches my interest with zen and rei at the moment is the difference in how they're.. regaining their memories. like... it's interesting to me that zen is able to get some of his memories back from the stuffed rabbit marked with "niko," but rei doesn't. i don't really know how much i can speculate off of this atm (i feel like this is something i'd get more info on when i progress through the second labyrinth, or it's something i'm missing out on because i can't use intertextuality to piece things together. i dont know shit about alice in wonderland.)

like it does make me think that maybe these two are like.. separate entities in that respect (rather than a shared one? but i could be wrong, and i welcome that!). but also there's something that makes my brain go "AAA" about how adamant zen is about wanting to protect rei despite not having any memories, because my brains like "WELL WHAT IF ZEN'S TRUE IDENTITIES AND MEMORIES ARE ACTUALLY THE OPPOSITE, AND DON'T WANT GOOD THINGS FOR REI." poorly phrased but like, it's about the irony, y'know.

i have no fucking clue what rei is supposed to be if we're going under the notion that they're two different things that have lost their memory (she is so head empty only food and its precious tbh). but like my brain just thinks that zen is just... going to end up being some awful incarnation or something like idk. there's something about persona characters with amnesia that make me raise my eyebrow... like just look at ryoji and marie and teddie...

and i guess as another thought on the matter, the way zen and rei work mechanically speaking does make me ponder a bit because like.. obviously, yeah, they can't equip a subpersona because they're... GESTURES. not persona users but FUCK, the way zen and rei have very distinct skillsets just make me wonder if those can allude to what they symbolize. like zen's skills are much more.. destructive and im just like (AIGIS VOICE) "YOU ARE DANGEROUS."

anyways. i am very much invested in the identities of zen and rei but i am also glad that the crossover stuff is here too because i think the sillies will keep me inspired... and also im just happy to see yosuke... i really like yosuke even if i forget that i do a lot of the time..

last thought, after seeing souji talk and move, i think i'd definitely want to look into p4 side... because um. 🥴 i'm really simple guy. i need more minato in my life. (everyone rolls their eyes. i'm predictable!) i want to see minato move and talk. i want to think about him. he's my boyfriend. he's my wife. he's my universe. im being so cringe about him but I DONT THINK THIS IS A SURPRISE TO ANYONE... i like him a lot (NO SHIT, LIZZ). but!!! idk if this'll be something that i watch or play, it depends on what the NG+ functionality in this game is like...

anyway gn!! thanks for reading my delusions im very much enjoying this game and im happy to be playin git.

#pq #lizz.txt #lizz.jpg #i like this game a lot... i GOTTA get better screenshots of the animated cutscenes from a playthrough sometime they're really cute #honestly cutscenes take forever for me to get through... i've been typing up dialogue of interest in my notetaking software as well as my #reactions because i like having documentation of what i thought while playing...#which is also why i also do a bit of speculating here too since i want to have it written somewhere you know #i have lots of things im curious about for this game!!#and mechanic wise i def look forward to exploring some different party members #im planning on making my party consist of minato + souji + yosuke + aigis #unsure if the fifth slot goes to naoto or zen and rei. depends on what subpersonas i have #i really like zen and rei's abilities but hnngh them not bing able to equip subpersonas is a bit hmmfor me gameplay wise #at least in terms of the sp buffer. they're definitely solid and low maintenance but im like.#surely there'll be a time where the sp regenration per each step you take gets outclassed right #unrelated BUT i AM losing my mind at how the megaten wiki does not have pq party member learnsets on the skill pages like what the fuck #actually malding that i had to go to gamefaqs to see if any of my party members learned media + recarm naturally or not... smh #but anyway. good game im enjoying it!

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