#asm 2022

[measuringbliss]

ASM 2022 issue 56... You can't convince me Paul isn't bisexual, and you can't convince me Peter didn't just have a threesome with MJ and him.

This is a hot cover though, like do I care about Tombstone? Of course not. But it's hot so I'll take it.

(57) she's SO right. Anger fits you well, Mr. Parker.

Oh... Oh no... What the fuck, Nick Lowe. This is stupid and everyone knows it. God this magazine is really doomed. "Universally relatable"? dear lord somebody stop him!

[janetkwallace]

My opinion on Zeb Wells' current Spider-Man run

Note: If you really enjoyed Zeb Wells' run, that's really good! I wish I could have enjoyed it. I am criticizing the product, not the reader. Also, my opinion is not gospel. No one is forcing you to agree with me or my own views of a particular subject. I don't hate Zeb Wells or anyone involved with Spider-Man these days as a person, I'm only criticizing what they made under Spider-Man's flagship. Well, If you're still here... Let's begin.

Number One: Bad Characterization

[Aunt May is right. This is not Peter Parker (From Amazing Spider-Man #23 (2022).]

The characterization ranges from mediocre to awful.

Peter is miserable. Everything is depressing and mean spirited, but not compelling as Daredevil. It's just so depressing to the point it becomes painful to read. Peter and Mary Jane are split up again, despite Spencer's run portraying both characters as close to each other, and the reason why they are split up is because external forces won't keep them together. Because Paul, I guess. He is not even a character on his own, neither his children are, they are just plot devices keeping Peter and MJ apart. That's the reason they exist and I stopped caring.

So, I thought the first issues were low, and maybe the quality would improve over time. Yeah, it doesn't. Peter Parker is a loser for the sake of being a loser. He gets punched more than he gets to punch someone in the face. All I see is Spider-Man getting his ass kicked and constantly needing help from someone else.

In one issue he begs Norman Osborn, of all people, to help him fight the Vulture. You know, the Vulture, who has been defeated like, I don't know, a hundred times before by Spidey himself. Hey, the Vulture has new equipment, so I'll buy it for a moment.

...

....

...........

...I buy more the fact that Spidey managed to break the unbreakable window of Hobgoblin's battle van by punching it back in issue 251 of Amazing Spider-Man.

Anyway, if you're going to ask for someone's help to fight against your enemy, would you choose Norman Osborn of all people? The dude who killed your girlfriend in front of you, who psychologically tormented your best friend, the one Norman Osborn who was behind the atrocity of the Clone Saga, that Norman Osborn who took you as his heir and tried to turn you into the next Green Goblin!? You've got to be kidding me.

From what I read, Norman is not a villain anymore and kind of a good guy now. I don't care, he could have asked for anyone else's help. This is just forced, like many of the things going on in Zeb Wells' run.

Number Two: Lazy Writing

If characterization wasn't already one of Zeb Wells' strengths, his writing often feels, uh... How do I describe it? Well, it is lazy. That's it. While I admit that I got a bit invested in the beginning of the run, the writing fails to hold up to my investment. Again, if you liked it, no worries! I am not criticizing you, the fan, but the Spider-Man book that was a kind of let down for me. And one of the reasons why I gave up reading... it was the writing.

It's ok, nothing particularly memorable, which's a bad thing when you are writing about Spider-Man, dude! Sure, Denny O'Neil's run was boring, but there was at least some investment from the author and the creative team to make the stories interesting, even when they did not make any sense.

Zeb Wells, however, it's just pure nonsense, and he doesn't seem to care much about what's going on, there's no attempt at making any of the stories exciting. If that's the case, then it's more of Romita Jr's effort to tell a story through their artwork rather than words. The artists are the ones who brought me to read this run, who fed me interest instead of Zeb Wells himself.

One issue (I think it's the recent one, issue 23) and the narration boxes are like 'God hit me. MJ is with God. Police sirens. Feds are behind me. Gotta run. Body slam. Falls from cliff', and I don't have much of a problem with it. It is the way it's presented that it is a chore to read. There are moments you do not even notice the narration by how tiny the narration boxes are, because one character says 'Yes, I exist', and that's their narration.

Again, this might be a 'problem for me' problem, since it's easy to follow the writing style, it's nothing complicated. Complicated, however, is the author's relationship with the character...

Zeb Wells does not understand Spider-Man. He is capable of writing a story, Wells is a talented writer after all, but man, does he understand how Spidey works... Peter just YELLS at people, pulls them against the wall, and says 'I DON'T NEED YOUR HELP!!!*' and goes away; that could sum up the way he writes Spider-Man.

It comes as a forced drama to progress a flawed plot in order to keep people invested in an event that is very unlikely to happen, which means Peter and MJ staying together and the story being like 'hey they will be together, but not in this issue! We're gonna tell what's going on... not in this issue!', and the story is all about 'revelations!... next issue'. 21 issues later, and now we know who Paul is, and he still manages to be the lamest Spider-Man character I have ever seen. It leaves me baffled at how or why Mary Jane decided to stay with that guy, without saying it is because of Spider-Man editorial, but in-comic context I mean.

(*Also, small pet peeve of mine, but I absolutely hate the word ballons whenever a characters YELLS VERY LOUD, as if MAKING THE FONT THIS BIG tells us something meaningful to the audience.)

Number Three: Disregard with continuity

This is not a problem with Zeb Wells himself, but with the whole of comics.

Point is, character behavior should remain consistent as the story goes on. The more the chapters, the more it's inevitable that the writer (or writers) may screw up with the character behavior. And in a 70 year old title, of course there'll be lots of character developments and relationship shake-ups, it's necessary in order to keep people invested in. However, Zeb Wells' does the opposite.

Instead of developing characters, they are regressed to their lowest common denominator. Imagine if Lois Lane forgot Clark Kent was Superman and left Clark to stay with another man (following a slap in the face) while Clark himself punches Jimmy Olsen in the face, pulls Perry White to a wall as he quits the job at the Daily Planet, goes back from Metropolis to Smallville to date Lana Lang and Lex Luthor want to be best friends with Supes, how would you feel about it? That's how I feel about the current Amazing Spider-Man run.

I may be exaggerating a bit, but that's what happens. Decades of character growth are completely ignored so Zeb Wells can write his soap opera where everyone does stuff they would never do unless under bad writing. Peter gets beaten by every single villain despite having years of experience in combat and being smart too.

Hey, remember when Spidey fought Juggernaut (issues 229-230 of Amazing Spider-Man) not only with his fists, but by being clever as well? By tricking the unbeatable Juggernaut wrecking havoc through New York to a construction site where he sinks into wet cement? That was intelligent, but forget about it. Under Wells' writing, Juggernaut would have stumped with his feet on Peter's head and the fight would be over.

It's just sad to make us feel sad, because that's 'relatable'. And, speaking of which...

Number Four: Relatability

I have this theory that the Spider-Man editorial only lets writers who agree with “their vision of the character '' write Spider-Man these days. Their vision of Spider-Man? Just like how Stan Lee wrote him back in the '60s. Young, single, social awkward, studying at high school, struggling with a job, engaged in love triangles... They can't accept the fact that a 70 year old character needs to move on and be an adult and, I don't know, have some maturity. Peter is a manchild and I hate it, it's not relatable at all, and if that's an attempt at emulating Lee/Ditko or Lee/Romita phase, it fails.

The thing that made Spider-Man be Spider-Man was how readers related to him, how his character grew up by each comic and alongside the readers. When Peter Parker graduated, some of the readers were graduating too. When Peter Parker asked Mary Jane to marry him, some of the readers were married. When MJ told Peter that she was pregnant, guess what? Some readers were raising their children.

As for this Spider-Man, though... I do not relate to him at all. He suffers, everyone suffers, and it's not engaging or entertaining. We don't see Spidey suffer like Daredevil then coming back stronger than before, he feels weaker by each issue, and a D list villain being able to defeat him in a single issue is an offense.

It's pathetic, what happened to Spider-Man, who lifted tons of weight so he could save his aunt's life? Or the Spider-Man who was buried by Kraven the Hunter for weeks until he came out of the grave because of his love for Mary Jane? The Spider-Man who tore Doctor Octopus tentacles apart because of his love for Black Cat?

The Spider-Man who single handed defeated Firelord by punching the hell out of him?

The Spider-Man who fought Morlun face to face and was so badly injured by the end of it yet he never gave himself in to death? The Spider-Man who lifted an entire collapsing Daily Bugle in 'The Final Chapter'?

I do not feel related to Peter at all. Is that the same character I grew up with? Is this the guy who showed me what an ordinary man could do to help people, while in his outfit or not? Peter represents just how an average person can face life’s troubles and tribulations in order to come out stronger, but this Spider-Man? Peter being a sore thumb by every single issue is so annoyingly frustrating to watch.

Number Five: Paul

Oh, Paul... What's with Paul? He is a self-inserted editorial mandate as a character dictating 'no, you can't be together!', sure, but why does he exist in the story's context? Why? No one needed another Paul.

(Yeah, there was Paul Stacy, Gwen's whiny brother who only existed to blame peter for his sister's death, how he was not there when Gwen Stacy died, that Gwen could still be alive if Peter cared more, and he was annoying on his own right, but back to the other Paul.)

Paul is so one dimensional his kids were born 3D because of Mary Jane's genes.

Like I said before, Paul is in the comics to keep Peter and Mj away from each other. He has no reason to exist other than to fulfill Zeb Wells' (and I blame the editorial too) forced drama agenda. Also, why would Mj marry someone who has shown to be aggressive as Paul, isn't her backstory revolved around her abusive father?

Again, bad writing doing its job. Yeah, Peter and MJ had their ups and downs, everyone has in a relationship, but unlike Paul, they had depth, they had humanity, you cared for both, you understood both's feelings for themselves and each other. Paul is a waste of time, and I could say this entire run is a waste of time and vital energy, but there are some positives.

The good stuff:

Romita's Jr. is a good artist. It looked bad at the beginning, but his artwork has improved with each issue (though the neanderthal faces look weird);

The first story arc with Tombstone was decent. Nothing really new, or astonishing, but overall decent;

Hell is filled with good ideas, and so does this run.

Number Six: Mary Jane's treatment

Poor Mary Jane. The way writers have treated you with the years...

Let's be honest: The marriage was a natural progression for both characters. For years, writers have been teasing a closer and deeper relationship between Peter and Mary Jane, so it was obvious they would soon get married. Peter proposed twice, once in Wolfman's run, and later in David Micheline's.

Under Micheline's writing, Peter was a more mature person, he had been through a lot, and he felt like he had been giving too much importance to Spider-Man over the ears while ignoring he's also Peter Benjamin Parker, that he has a life as a person, so the next step to be taken was to ask Mary Jane in marriage. Why? Because, as mentioned before, they knew each other for a long time, and only MJ knew Peter was Spider-Man and Peter knew that Mary Jane would be there to listen to his worries, as much as he listened to hers.

It's a heartwarming story, it shows how much the characters have grown throught time, and it's one of the best examples of why Spider-Man is one of the most relatable of Marvel characters. And then came One More Day, which ruined the character forever. But let's talk about Zeb Wells instead. His Mary Jane hates Peter for some reason, and it's a drag to follow up why. Other than that, MJ is a writing tool, she is no longer a character. I call it Paul's disease.

Issue 21 tells the reader on the front cover that 'Finally! You will see the truth revealed!', but of course not, it happens in the next issue, and it's just bad. Did they reduce Peter/Mj relationship to this? They can't be the human beings I felt related for years ago anymore.

Personal considerations

[You know how bad a comic run is when other comic books acknowledge it. A panel from Doctor Strange #1 (2023).]

When I read Superior Spider-Man, I swear, Ock Peter and Anna Maria's relationship was more developed than current Peter and Mary Jane's relationship these days. It was obvious Superior would not last forever, after Otto Octavius sacrificed himself (don't worry, he came to life again through a deal with the devil, not kidding), with Spider-Man in his red/blue suit saying "Now it's my turn!".

When I saw that panel, with old Spidey's vibrant colors showing in the dark, I really, really had hopes that Spider-Man would beat Green Goblin' ass and the flagship title would be amazing once again. It was a sign of better days to come. What do I get from out of my invest? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Peter is Spider-Man again and so what? He never learns from his mistakes. He is all about 'with great powers come great responsibilities' and he can't be a responsible adult to save his life. "He and MJ will be together" is teased over and over, but external forces keep them apart.

I was only three years old when One More Day came out, watching Woodpecker on TV while Peter sold his marriage to the devil. I had no idea who Spider-Man was, but ever since I read the books, saw the animated series, and had a school's notebook with Spider-Man in it, I became a fan. And I hope I never give up, because that's the lesson Peter taught me when he got to be written by better writers.

If you enjoyed Zeb Wells as a writer, that's completely fine. We all like something others do not. This is by no means a personal attack against any of you who have liked this run, this is just the opinion of a reader. And that's all.

[earth90214]

damn spider-man writers, they ruined spider-man

[deercharles]

Trying things out

[pumpkinrootbeer]

DONT listen to redditors when they tell you a good jumping off point to get into spiderman comics is Superior!! they are lying to you!! not even as a dig at superior spiderman, as much as i love making fun of it it's a good comic run

but I can't imagine recommending the one where Peter gets freaky friday-ed into a dying doc ock's shriveled body and then proceeds to die in said shriveled body as Doc Ock fucks around in Spiderman's body. and you have to read dying wish which is honestly a pretty dense 5 issue run leading up to Superior Spider-Man on its own, filled with characters that you won't have encountered unless you've been reading asm up to that point (be honest how many of you have even heard of horizon labs.) But then the first like 5ish issues of ssm Doc Ock just tries to get with MJ and also it is HEAVILY SUGGESTED to that doc ock has feelings for May. In Peter's Body. And the whole time Peter is just stuck as a ghost watching doc ock SORT OF FLIRT WITH HIS AUNT IN HIS BODY ? and I'll stop here. but in no world would I suggest maybe one of the most absurd spiderman comics (sure it's no sins of the past but come on) to someone who has only seen the movies or the cartoons, and wants to get into the comics. I get that it's like a fan favorite but come on!!

anyway here's what id recommend people read if they want to Spiderman:

Obviously ASM is the main title and if youre really committed to being in the know on spiderman, it's definitely The place to go. But also it has 900+ issues and it can hard to find a good starting place.

I don't hate the 2022 run as much as some people do (totally reasonably btw there's some choices I'm not crazy for eithsr), and since it's the ongoing run there's not as much you'd have to read to be caught up. A lot of it is little 3-4 issue self contained stories! There's only fifty-threeee (?) issues out rn so plenty to read but not as daunting as the almost One Thousand Issues that lay before you and a near 60+ year run. I also hear the 2012 run is pretty good but I've only read a few issues here and there of that one so I cannot speak to it myself lol

Another series that's not too long but still has plenty there: Deadpool/Spider-Man! has two fan favorites and absolutely plenty of wacky comic antics. The first big plotline isn't the best but the character moments more than make up for it. Only 50 issues so not too bad! Plus, the run is over so you won't be trying to catch up (im hoping they revive it <-self delusion)

Avenging Spider-Man is another good jumping off point imo! It's a team-up series that will point you to ongoing plotlines without dragging you into them, so if one happens to strike your fancy you can go find those comics to read that storyline. It's fun, heartfelt, and self contained (for the most part). Can you tell I like team up stories yet.

For individual issues you can read completely standalone:

Deadpool annual #2 (2013)

Avenging Spider-Man #4

Amazing Spider-Man #248

Daredevil #8 & #9 (2016) (two issues ik im cheating, trust me though)

And if you're just looking to get into comics in general, here's a couple stand alone miniseries that I really like (all 10 issues or less!)

Gwenpool Strikes Back (spiderman is in this one!)

Hawkeye: Freefall (spideys here too!!)

Defenders 2017 (he's not here though... as far as I can remember)

(also you can find all of these online! (for free ;)) at readcomicsonline.li but for the love of god don't use that site if you don't have an ad blocker)

[palelittleadaptoid]

i take your favorite character and their growth and reverse it back to the starting point, undoing all of the character development and history because i am the worst

[earth90214]

ASM #543

anyways heres peter committing nine separate felonies (car stealing included)

Amazing Spider-Man #23 (2023)

written by Zeb Wells art by John Romita, Jr., Scott Hanna, & Marcio Menyz

[faerygardens]

THEY DID WHAT TO KAMALA

[makesitprecious]

🇪‌🇻‌🇪‌🇷‌🇾‌ 🇸‌🇵‌🇮‌🇩‌🇪‌🇷‌ 💙🕷💕 🇬‌🇼‌🇪‌🇳‌ 🇪‌🇻‌🇪‌🇷‌ (almost)

ASM #7 and #8 variant editions (2022) by (Ejiwa) Ebenebe

[watsonjackpot]

+ ( your boy officially ( for better or worse ) now owns every ASM trade from 2008-2022 )

[comfortcaroljess]

ASM (2022) #31

I feel so bad for Jess :( But I do love that Carol's looking for her. I love that she cares so much for Jessica (they're gay actually).

[demigod-of-the-agni]

can i get a show of hands as to who is an ASM sufferer like me? please, i need to show you all my wisdom-filled takes on such a beautiful series <3

no this is a joke this is a CRY FOR HELP. HOW DO I STOP MYSELF FROM COMING BACK TO THIS SERIES. I AM FILLED WITH AN ALL-CONSUMING RAGE AND THERE IS NO END IN SIGHT. WIPING MY MEMORY WITH THE FUCKING WINKLER DEVICE WILL NOT EASE MY MISERY

[earth90214]

the fact peter genuinely said “an evil mathematician transported me and mary jane to another universe” completely unironically is so evil what the fuck is going on

[measuringbliss]

Just read ASM #60 (2022).

...Is that it????

[kainathan]

What made you get into Spider-Man and why is Kaine your favorite?

ive liked spider-man longer than i can remember. i liked him from movies and cartoons as most kids did. i started reading comics when i was like 12 or something via slott spiderverse (which is where i was introduced to kaine). after that i read some slott and i read kaines solo book. i started rly reading older spidey stuff in 2022, when i binged asm and started having Takes on the character. the comic book reading Journey has been a little crazy since then and i havent been as invested in spidey lately but ill inevitably come back to him at some point. i rambled a lot but i hope that answers the question 👍

[palelittleadaptoid]

GODDD I HATE ASM