#as you can tell i feel very strongly about this episode

[queenoftheimps]

Artistic Expression as a Form of Love: aka Some Meta About Interview with the Vampire

hey guess who spent all of today putting off a really boring work task

So I'm just suddenly just having a lot of feelings about how love is tied to creation in Interview with the Vampire.

Specifically, each character's artistic impulses and what they say about their relationships, and how they use their creative output as a sort of love language.

From the very first episode, we see hints of this. Miss Lilly asks about Lestat's music box, which plays a song he wrote for Nicholas once upon a time, evidence of his love for someone who's been dead for over a century.

He later writes his own song for Louis, 'Come to Me', and Claudia makes the connection explicit while deliberately poking at him -- he wrote a song for each of his true loves, but does one signal love more strongly than the other?

She's being facetious to prod at him, but the show seems to genuinely make the point that we can track each characters' relationships through the art we see them create.

After all, we see it with Claudia herself later -- even before there's any discussion of becoming companions, we can feel Madeleine's compatibility with Claudia in the way she makes dresses for her.

Madeleine dresses Claudia as the grown woman she wants to be seen as, as she really is, even before she fully understands the circumstances of Claudia's age. It's telling that in Madeleine's dying vision, the one that convinces Louis of her love for Claudia, that Claudia is wearing a dress that Madeleine made for her.

By contrast, we see how Claudia is incompatible with the coven in the role that they have quite literally written for her. If Madeleine shows her love by treating Claudia as an adult, the coven shows their lack of caring by creating artwork where Claudia is forced into playing a part that diminishes her.

In turn, we can see Claudia's enthusiasm for the coven tied into her willingness to perform -- she starts off trying to smile her way through the situation, before quickly growing tired of the performance (and, relatedly, the coven itself).

But then again, how does the coven show its real loyalties? Well, with a painting.

We don't know who painted Lestat (Armand, possibly?), but having artwork of him in a place of prominence is pretty telling. But then again, the theater's creation is itself a reflection of art as a signifier of love & bonding -- Lestat suggests a theater to a lonely Armand as a way to regain a family/coven structure, after the last one fell apart.

Which makes particular sense for Armand, the character who most explicitly equates artistic expression with love and understanding. We see him underline it in his own telling of his backstory -- "No one has painted me in over 400 years." He associates painting with being seen and cared for by his maker --

-- and yet we, the audience, can plainly see what a warped, toxic relationship it was from the painting itself : a whitewashed version of Armand's face that doesn't truly look like him.

Hell, we even see Armand's betrayal of Louis in the form of creative expression -- to quote Daniel, "He directed the play!"

His treason isn't just that he sold Louis & Claudia out, it's that he participated in a creation that would condemn them. Artistic expression shows us love and loyalty in this world, yes, but it can also be used as a tool of abuse or betrayal.

Which brings us to Louis, he who has the eye for art but maybe not the skill for it, who never said 'I love you' to Lestat and wouldn't call Armand his companion, who ultimately gives up on creation in favor of becoming a collector.

It's especially interesting that his abandonment of photography is also explicitly tied to the end of his visions of Dreamstat. Even the one photo he takes that garners praise is one he tries taking of Armand & Dreamstat at the same time -- as if the closest he can get to expressing love through creation is something that blurs the lines between both men he has complicated feelings for. (Note that the scene where he develops the photo is directly after the "Show me the only way you know how to love" sequence of Louis bashing some guy's head into a wall.)

Hell, if we want to take it even further, we can even see some of this pretense in the inclusion of the Fred Stein photos (assuming Armand actually did sneak them in). On one level, we can see it as Armand trying to build up Louis' happiness, but on the other, it's him trying to build up the image of their romance.

After all, if artistic creation is a sign of love -- especially to Armand! -- what does it mean if Louis is openly disparaging his own abilities to make anything at all?

Taking it further, what does it say that he and Armand have a collection of photos of various boys over the years and expensive artwork hanging on every wall, but Louis doesn't seem to have taken any pictures of Armand in almost eighty years?

And hey, speaking of fascinating boys: what does it mean when Louis hasn't made anything creative of Armand since the 1940s, but he has no problem writing a book for ten hours with some guy he picked up at the bar?

Hell, writing a book where Louis spends ten hours talking about his life and hasn't even gotten up to the part with Armand yet? The supposed love of his life doesn't even garner a mention, to the point where Daniel didn't even know he existed when he arrives fifty years later.

And what does it mean when that book you never wrote is a giant hanging thread in your life, enough to create a connection strong enough that you remember that guy fifty years later and go back to that writing it? Even over the objections of the love of your life?

Especially when find out that Daniel's entire writing career is sparked in part by inspirational words given to him by Louis -- a sign of their bond withstanding the test of time, enough to make them friends after a fifty year absence.

That said, if we're working with the idea of artistic expression as proof of connection -- especially when it comes to Armand -- then it also makes perfect sense why Armand would insert himself into the interview once he's been revealed.

Then it's no longer about Louis & Daniel, or Louis & Lestat, it's about Louis & Armand and artistic proof of their connection! They're both now creating a story, a book that will include their entire romance! It's the first time that Armand has had the possibility of being an artistic subject in decades, so no wonder he's quick to latch onto it.

Even then, though: I think it's interesting that when Armand is talking to Daniel alone, the first story he thinks to tell him about is his relationship with Lestat. Make of that what you will.

(Also, I've said this before, but I am very curious what Armand's feelings towards Daniel will be after having an entire book written in which he plays a starring role.)

I think that this is all very rich with subtext and possible further progression, especially since we are about to enter a season where a new book is being written by Daniel and there's going to be an entire tour's worth of music being performed, all of it ripe with potential for further relationship nuance.

And while I don't want to wander too far into book spoiler territory, I think this might even neatly factor into a potential Season 4 -- especially since book fans will know that a specific musical performance is the catalyst for a lot of what happens in The Queen of the Damned.

[spaceagebachelorstan]

me when i somehow hop universes and find the successful version of myself with a good job and a good house and a good record, and i am torn apart by the knowledge that i am the worse version of myself only to be utterly wrecked by the revelation that i can always get worse and no matter how many therapy sessions i go to and how much disgust i feel over my urges i cannot escape their existence. i cannot escape the blood on my hands and i cannot escape the fact that it’s simultaneously too much and isn’t enough. my murderous rage and the reason for it stay with me always, and no matter how far down they are locked away i will always know that they are there because they are me, even if i can separate myself from them i can never be whole without them both because i am the sum of my parts and my life is not my own, the best life i can lead comes from my worst self and there is no way to ever go back the way i came so im stuck trying to rectify every mistakes my worst self has made. i can hide it well, but everybody knows i do not belong.

[piratecaptainscaptainpirates]

Need more positivity on my dash, so I wanna talk a bit more about how fucking amazing OFMD's writing for its characters of color is!

Now, I'm a professional historian (phd student 😔🤘🏾) and I read and watch a lot of historical fiction because I love it, right? And I have literally never seen a piece of historical fiction that is so respectful to its characters of color.

Usually, in works of historical fiction that actually bother to include characters of color, they fall into two big camps. The most common one is trauma porn, where poc only exist so White characters can save them, feel sorry about them, or so White audiences can pat themselves on the back for feeling sorry about them. Also popular are works that include characters of color but don't bother thinking about how race impacts their experiences in historical settings (shows like Bridgerton come to mind; they want to include poc but handwave racism). And in general I prefer the latter but it still takes me out of the story.

But OFMD hits just this amazing balance. There are many characters of color, and the racism of the world they live in impacts their experiences and perspectives in realistic ways. Ed remembering how his mom told him that fine things weren't meant for people like him has me by the fucking throat, it's so tied up in race and class and it's the root of so many of Ed's self-image issues into adulthood. But the real kicker for me - poc always get the last laugh in OFMD. Yes, the racism in this show is often very realistic, but this isn't a realistic show at its core and it is so, so comforting to know a character who starts acting like a racist dickhead is a dead man walking.

It's so carefully written, and for me it's such a huge comfort: race in OFMD is never hand-waved away, and it's thought-provoking and realistic and relatable. But the show always feels so safe because we know racism in the show is never excused. They tell us in the pilot that if you start being a racist asshole, someone's gonna stab you. Even Stede, our main character - when he makes a racist assumption in the second episode of the show, the narrative encourages us to call him out for it and has a character directly call him a fuckin' racist! He's held accountable and he fucking grows, because unlearning racist biases is important and he doesn't get a pass because he's the main character!

It's not just that OFMD has a lot of characters of color. It's not just that one of our main romantic leads is an indigenous Jewish man. It's not just that characters of color are consistently depicted as smart, clean, competent, and respected. It's that the show respects them enough to think about how racism realistically shapes the world of OFMD, while at the same time providing viewers with a wonderful fantasy of racists getting what they deserve. In the genre of historical fiction, it stands out because it completely avoids the trauma porn and hand-wavey angles, and I can't articulate strongly enough how much I appreciate that.

[echo-lover]

I wanted to share my thoughts about the first three episodes of Bad Batch season 3 immediately after watching them, but I was too emotional about everything I saw that I needed some time to calm down a bit.

It's beyond my expectations, just perfect! From the plot, to the characters, through the beautiful graphics and wonderful music, everything was epic. This season will definitely be much more mature and dark than the others. I love Bad Batch with all my heart and words cannot describe how important these characters are to me. I don't think I will focus on each episode separately, but I will show my general feelings and thoughts.

Something that touched my heart deeply was how Omega becomes so much like Hunter. Her facial expressions, her eyes, tactical skills and that characteristic whistle! I immediately thought of Hunter. She became so mature, strong, decisive and calm in stressful situations. It's clear that she's no longer the same little child we met on Kamino in the first season. She has changed so much... Even Crosshair seems to see this, as he let her lead during his escape from Mount Tantiss. He was her support, did not question her ideas and did not hesitate to follow orders. I love watching their bond become stronger. Every day Omega came to his cell, talked about her day... and he listened... he had no choice because he couldn't just go, but I think they both needed each other's presence. They knew they were not alone and encouraged each other, in some way.

It is clear that Omega still misses the rest of her brothers and strongly believes that she will be able to return to them again, together with Crosshair. She can't imagine leaving him, it's out of the question. No matter how hard Crosshair tries to make her believe that he is not worth saving, she will still be on his side. I think Crosshair realized through her that his brothers never really wanted to leave him and were willing to take him back at any time if he just wanted...

Even though Omega has become more mature, she is still a child. Being locked in a cell, the routine and monotony of life must be very exhausting for her, because she is by nature a lively, active and curious sweet girl. She spent most of her life locked up and the only good memories she had were of freedom and her brothers, even though it wasn't for a long time. She even made herself a doll like Lula, who stayed on the Marauder with Hunter and Wrecker. This parallel symbolizes their connection, despite the enormous distance that separated them. And Batcher... Omega doesn't want to forget, she wants to remember her brothers, the love she had for them and received from them, all those good memories together... Ouch...

Somewhere in another part of the Galaxy, two brothers are desperately looking for their little sister. Their worn armor shows that they have fought hard during this time. Hunter also has different bandana... I've seen a theory that it's similar to the band Omega wore on his wrist in season two. This way, maybe Hunter wanted to always have her close to him, at least a part of her, I wonder if he can smell her scent... Oh Force, I'm gonna cry...

The sight of Hunter having difficulty working with Tech's Datapad, how desperate he is to do everything he can to find Omega, how exhausted he seems... Maybe it's just me, but he looks thinner and has paler skin than before. This breaks my heart. I'm sure he was thinking about Tech who could do the job in a second. The sight of his goggles resting alone, the empty space he once occupied... Marauder never looked so lonely... Let me tell you, I shed a tear.

I really liked how Wrecker was the voice of reason in his conversation with Hunter. It's beautiful how one look, a nod of the head, or a hand on the shoulder can bring Hunter down. They support each other and it is clear that after everything they have lost, they have become even closer. They need each other to keep from going crazy.

Even though they are the only two left, Wrecker still considers Hunter to be the leader and waits for his orders even though he knows he doesn't have to. He remains loyal. When he was talking to the little cadets on the Marauder, I was so happy when I heard his laughter. Honest, loud and heartwarming. I think he's needed this for a long time. He definitely misses the company of a child on board, he loves children so much...

I also love that little scene where Hunter is working and looks at Lula out of the corner of his eye, thinking about Omega. He can't live without her... I feel like if they were separated again, he wouldn't be able todeal with it and would just explode, showing all the anger and despair he was holding, possibly doing something stupid in the process... He loves his little Omega too much that he can't imagine life without her. He is ready to drop everything just to be able to hold her close to him, to keep her safe. I'm so scared for him.

On the one hand, I was surprised that Echo didn't stay with the boys to look for Omega, but I expected him to join Rex. They may also be searching, but I think their main goal is to free prisoners and gather as many allies as possible to create the Clone Rebellion.

I could talk for hours and still not express all my thoughts and emotions that these episodes made me feel. I can't wait for next Wednesday.

[chiibinomonodamon]

WHO WANTS TO HEAR ME RAMBLE ABOUT GAY FURRY DEMON SEX? XD

(damn, there's a sentence I never thought I'd say....)

Okay...so I see some Stolitz confusion and bashing online and I need to type up a defense here because I won't be able to sleep otherwise lol

I consider myself to be a Ship Critic and someone who takes shipping rather seriously.

What I mean by this is, I like to analyze and break down romantic relationships between fictional characters because it's just interesting to write for me. I especially take delight in friendly debating with opinions that I strongly do *not* agree with.

Let me start off by saying I am NOT a "this ship is awesome because gay furry sex lol" type of girl.

FAR from it. I'm generally more passionate about hetero ships between human characters (because I can relate to them more) among other reasons. So if you wanna dismiss my defense as "shallow fangirlism", you can forget about that lame excuse.

I fell in love with Hazbin Hotel when it was finally released in February and suffered waiting for each new two-parts per week. During that time, I decided to watch Helluva Boss as well, after a friend showed me a particularly soul-crushing clip (Moxxie's childhood trauma about his mother).

Yes, I like funny sex jokes as much as the next goofy adult but scenes like this, scenes that carry a very heavy emotional weight are what really get me in the end, even moreso when VERY little dialogue is exchanged. I knew I had to watch the entire episode run after seeing that the creators had a talent for this.

I saw people asking:

"How did Stolas go from using Blitz as a sex toy to being painfully in love with him?"

Oh I can tell you. I can tell you the EXACT moment this is revealed. But it's not spoon-fed to you; it's quite subtle actually and this is why lots of people miss it.

See, one of the strongest talents Vivenne has shown me is that she REALLY knows how to get her characters to communicate their feelings to the viewers JUST from their expressions and body language. These can be 'blink-and-miss-it' teeny little scenes and it may require a couple rewatches.

But since people demand time stamps for all information others post here, I'll rewatch a few scenes from S1 E7 'Ozzie's' as I'm typing this.

'Ozzie's' remains to be not just my favorite episode of HB...but probably my favorite episode of any adult-targeted animated show outside of Japan (aside from S2 E7's Mid-Season Special)

It has this huge reveal for both Blitzo and Stolas.

We'll first address Blitzo's irrational, stalkerish behavior of Moxxie and Millie.

He's obsessed with them. He finds both of them very attractive, fantasizes about threesomes with them and is constantly inserting himself into their personal lives.

Why?

Because they have everything that he badly badly wants for himself.

They have the perfect marriage and he is trying to live THROUGH them.

This was hilarious to me at the beginnning of the show but it's slowly revealed that it's one of the most tragic and depressing things I've ever seen. And it's scarily realistic too.

But you know this already so let's move on...

Blitzo follows the couple to Ozzie's but he can't get in without a date. So he calls up Stolas and yes, this is very low but he doesn't realize how much this means to Stolas (hell, I'm not sure even Stolas realizes it himself!) but the owl man is giddy with joy, he rushes over and they enter Ozzie's.

When Ozzie and Fizz mock Moxxie for being so sappy towards his wife, this strikes a chord with Blitzo (because they're his IDEAL relationship) and he speaks up to defend them.

NOW PAY CLOSE ATTENTION; THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART:

Fizz, still holding onto his past grudge turns on Blitzo to humilate him:

"Some nerve you got commenting on a relationship"

Time Stamp: 11:37

As Fizz says "-ship", Blitzo VERY QUICKLY makes eye contact with Stolas who has a look of panic on his face. Blitzo is seeking VALIDATION from Stolas in this sharp, subtle second of screentime, as if to ask

"Well, ARE we in one?"

And then what happens next...Stolas remains silent, Blitzo's ex joins in to announce how selfish Blitzo was in bed with her, tearing him down further. Stolas stands up like he's going to put a stop to it but then Ozzie notices him and interrogates him about sleeping with Blitzo.

Blitzo looks incredibly ashamed and guilty as Stolas blushes with similar feelings...and hides his face behind his menu; HIS BIGGEST MISTAKE IN THE SERIES SO FAR.

Time Stamp: 12:24

The look on Blitzo's face as he grits his teeth and darts his eyes away basically says

"Yeah, I should have known...boy am I an idiot for trusting him to stand up for me".

(look how SHOCKED he is...wow, this hurts fr ;_;)

This is a silent betrayal on Stolas's part. Afterall, his reputation is on the line, so if he were to defend Blitzo, it confirms they are in fact, dating. He chose his pride over Blitzo and Blitzo is crushed by this betrayal.

Moxxie finishes his song and kisses his wife tenderly. Stolas watches this and also wants to have an affectionate moment with Blitzo (who is rightfully glaring daggers at him) and tries to reach for his hand.

Blitzo rejects his touch and suggests they leave. As they do, Blitzo still looks furious and hurt. Stolas is now realizing how badly he screwed up with a "What have I done?" face (13:41)

He even looks disappointed with himself.

After Blitzo drops Stolas off, he thanks him and tries to smooth over the awkwardness with sweet talk but Blitzo just rolls his eyes in disgust and pulls on his face like "I don't want to hear this bullshit".

He responds coldly and curtly, "Yeah." Stolas makes more suggestions to spend time with him, which just makes him even angrier and he snaps

"I'm not fucking you tonight, okay!

I'm really just..." (14:28)

he pauses to wipe a tear because at this point he can barely hold it together (top notch voice acting and animation directing btw)

"...not in the mood, Stolas."

Stolas still tries to talk him into doing couple things unrelated to sex.

Blitzo's face switches back to anger and frustration because Stolas isn't getting the message so he goes for the blunt tactic;

"Stolas, don't act like what we have is anything but YOU wanting ME to fuck you, okay?"

(14:42)

"You make that really clear all the time."

(again his voice sounds like he's about to break down)

"But I-I just can't do it tonight, okay?"

(Finally meets his eye)

"...I'm sorry."

I believe this is code for "I'm sorry we're even in this situation and how your reputation got damaged. " Or, more painfully, "I'm sorry I'm such an embarrassment to you".

Stolas replies "Okay" and takes a deep breath to compose himself. They say goodnight and depart.

An important note here is that Stolas calls him "Blitzo" instead of "Blitzy" to show more respect.

As Blitzo zooms away coldly, Stolas looks up at the sky with tears in his eyes, surprised at how much it hurts.

He then sits down with his head in his hands in anguish...because he's getting that

"Oh...no. These feelings are real" epiphany.

And as if this wasn't enough angst, Blitzo collapses onto his couch at home, goes through the memories on his phone and starts sobbing.

I'm going to be real with you; this is the most heart-breaking shit I have ever seen in an adult show of this type. It's also the first time a show of this type got me to cry.

The last six minutes have revealed so much information without spoonfeeding it to the audience because the show RESPECTS its audience.

To recap:

*Blitzo takes Stolas on a first official date to use him

*Stolas is extremely happy about it

*Blitzo gets humilated and looks to Stolas for validation

*Stolas betrays him and breaks his heart

*Blitzo snaps that their relationship is nothing more than lust-driven sex

*Stolas realizes he's actually in love with Blitzo and it's a huge problem because (he believes) that it's unrequited.

*Blitzo breaks down because the ONE person whom he thought would protect him didn't do so.

So these two are convinced that neither one loves the other...while the irony is, it's quite the opposite.

Because if Blitzo REALLY didn't feel anything towards Stolas, he would not have gotten this emotional.

Yes, they are both lonely...but I really don't think that's all there is between them.

So..........we know WHEN they started falling...now the question is why;

I think the answer's quite simple; single-target affection.

It was mentioned in S2 that Stolas and Stella did sleep together ONE TIME...but Stolas didn't enjoy it at all. He is stuck with a wife who hates him so much that she put a HIT on him...and a daughter who thinks he's a loser. Blitzo is pretty much the one person in his life who is able to make him happy. That one small, bright spot. He enjoys the sex with him but he also simply enjoys his company, as shown in Ozzie's episode. He is thrilled to simply talk to him about his day...and do anything else that couples do. They're complete opposites. Stolas is an intellectual but naive and sheltered. Blitzo is poorly educated but cynical and street-smart. Opposites attract...though this is likely more from Stolas's POV than Blitzo's.

In other words, Stolas is into bad boys xD lmao

In Blitzo's case, Stolas is the only character who shows him physical affection which he desperately craves. He's pretty tsundere about it most of the time...but I think he actually does enjoy that attention...especially when he's always getting disrespected by Moxxie and Loona..and quite a lot of people around him. BUT he's too scared to get serious with anyone because of past trauma and he also believes that no one could possibly love him as a person. :(

Reasons I Think This Love is Real

Aside from what I pointed out in the Ozzie's episode...there's quite a lot of evidence, esp from Stolas's POV.

After he realizes he's in love, he goes to Asomodeous for an ALTERNATIVE method for Blitzo to use so they will no longer sleep together. He wants to set Blitzo free. Which means he DOES truly love him because love is about being generous to the other person. He COULD be totally selfish about it but he isn't.

Asomodeous mentions how against love potions he is and Stolas agrees. He thinks that's out of the question.

'Look My Way' music video. Lol I don't have to say anything more.

In S2 E6 OOPS

This exchange at 16:57

Fizz: Seems your taste has gotten more 'regal', lately?

Blitz: Yeah, well unlike you, I fuck who I want WHEN I want. I'm not gonna be tied down to some big blue-blood asshole.

Fizz: You coulda fooled me the way Prince was cozying up to you at Ozzie's.

Blitz (gets very defensive) HEY! Stolas only cares about have a rugged peasant raw-dog him into his mattress, okay!

It's nothing...(gets hesistant and looks away)...you know...

(Fizz gives him a 'bitch please' look xD)

"it's nothing else."

Fizz: Then why were you even there?

Blitz: OTHER very important reasons of course.

Fizz: Whatever. I don't actually care.

Blitz: Stolas is just a loud, thirsty BITCH!

(Fizz is rolling his eyes again)

Blitz: He loves feeling the thrill of getting dicked by the lower class.

It's a novelty to him.

Fizz: LITERALLY just said I don't care!

Blitz: And then he'll call me and try to see how my day was!

And he'll pretend to care about me and comment on my photos laugh at my jokes...

Fizz: (Smirking) OH! That's definitely your clue right there that it's all bullshit!

Blitz: I KNOW, RIGHT??

Fizz: (Making a 'What in idiot' expression, shaking his head)

Blitz: HE'S JUST A FAKE, PRIVELEDGED ASSHOLE...

Fizz: Sounds like you just hate him for being a prince!

No one (laughs) and I mean NO ONE pretends to care that much just for a cheap lay.

All right. IF ANYONE knows what real love is like, it's Fizzaroli...who is in a very HEALTHY relationship with Asomodeous. He recognizes the signs because he's IN that place. He sees it...and he's annoyed that Blitzo keeps denying it and brushing it off...yet clearly can NOT stop talking about Stolas (amusing irony)

To sum up (this freaking essay lol) 'Stolitz' ABSOLUTELY has the potential to be pure and true...these two just need to communicate...or Stolas has to PROVE to Blitzo that he's serious about his feelings in another way.

There is no doubt that this ship is 100% endgame and is a case of the 'Earn Your Happy Ending' Trope. I look forward to the rest of the journey. Ron is putting my feelings about Stolitz in a perfect phrase:

[rosenotactuallyquartz]

love like you & rose’s love for pearl

i love relating love like you to pearlrose. particularly, from rose’s perspective. here is how i’ve always looked at it.

the war

do it for her + love like you are exactly how pearl and rose felt about each other during the rebellion.

“You have nothing but the way you feel, your strategy and a sword, you just think about the life you'll have together after the war.”

“If I could begin to be half of what you think of me, I could do about anything! I could even learn how to love… like you!” 

“Deep down, you know you weren't built for fighting but that doesn't mean you’re not prepared to try!”

“I always thought I might be bad… now, I’m sure that it’s true ‘cause… I think you’re so good! And I’m nothing like you!”

“And then you do it for her. That's how you know you can win.”

“Look at you go, I just adore you, I wish that I knew what makes you think I’m so special.”

[Image description: Pearl’s blue hologram of Rose is depicted in this image as she reenacts a memory. She wears a dress with a star emblem at the chest, and she looks down, her expression appears to be one of concern. The background is a soft purple.]

a single pale rose

remember the night that they escaped from the other diamonds ?

“When I see the way you act, wondering when I'm coming back, I could do about anything.”

“When I see the way you look, shaken by how long it took, I could do about anything… I could even learn how to love like you.”

to fake pink’s shattering, she obviously vanished for a moment. in a single pale rose, we see a shapeshifted pearl crying and holding the diamond in her hand.

eventually rose came back, then, you know, “endless honeymoon” as rebecca described it. rebecca continues this in the book “end of an era” by adding, “pink is gone and pearl is free to love rose.”

meanwhile, rose saw how much pearl cared about her that night. she admired her so much–her courage, how much she meant to her because she definitely saw someone who was shaken and wondering when she was coming back after she reformed as rose.

[Image Description: this image depicts a pink flower in Pink Diamond’s palm. She wears a pink glove and there is dirt underneath the flower. Pearl’s hand is taking the flower from Pink]

after rose’s death

the final line of the song is: “love ME like you…”

i like to interpret this as the… truth, really. rose loved pearl more than pearl knew. sapphire had to remind her that she swept her off her feet.

rose loved pearl just as intensely, just as strongly and deeply as pearl loves rose.

rose could love pearl the way pearl loves her.

… but she could never love herself.

pearl knew rose the best. she lived with pink and then she lived with rose for the rest of rose’s life.

the only other individual who knows rose entirely like that… is rose herself. and yet, she hated herself.

“Her lack of respect for herself makes it impossible for her to respect everyone closest to her. She reveres them instead, because they are better than she could ever be, and that reverence is so honest and intoxicating that it draws everyone closer to her, without them understanding the deep self-hatred that pull is coming from.” — Rebecca Sugar, End of an Era, page 88.

meanwhile, there’s:

Interviewer: “Pearl obviously has some unrequited love for Rose, you know, and…”

Rebecca: “I don’t know if I would call it unrequited!” — Comic News Insider Episode 679

and there’s:

“Rose falls in love with Pearl's surprising boldness that comes out of left field.” — Steven Universe: End of an Era, Page 86

all of the flashbacks with rose are told to her son from the perspectives of others. they were either from the perspectives of people who didn’t know pearl or pearl / rose very well. sometimes, pearl would tell a story, but the focus was on how much she loved rose. there are also a few times in the show where her friends remind her that rose loved her a lot more than she knew.

if you think about love like you from rose’s perspective, the ending is meaningful.

the story didn’t end because she couldn’t feel the same love for pearl. the story ended because she couldn’t love herself. it was never about choosing anyone, if anything, she chose steven. pearl’s protectiveness, garnet’s wisdom, amethyst’s playfulness, and greg’s kindness made rose believe that her child would grow up in such a wonderful environment and she was “so excited for everyone who’s going to know [her child].” she didn’t realize that her death would hurt people, she thought they would be better off without her. and besides, she didn’t want to live with herself.

pearl barely knew that rose did love like her !! she was in awe of her; she would blush and show vulnerable parts of herself and smile all the time around her.

the problem is, she never loved like pearl in a way that she could see herself through pearl’s eyes. if she could, then maybe she would have been able to love herself.

[Image description: The Crystal Temple, a gray stone statue of a fusion between Pearl, Rose Quartz, Amethyst, and Garnet with long curls and four arms. In front of the statue, at the bottom, is a house. In front of the house is a sandy road leading to a beach, and the background is a soft purple sunset.]

i know that this song isn’t about any character in particular, but it also fits so many characters. i love relating this to many others—ame & the crystal gems, pearl + rose with garnet, sapphire with ruby, and steven with connie. here’s the pearlrose perspective !

[burst-of-iridescent]

I’ve been reading a series where a guy is in a near identical situation to Katara was in The Southern Raiders. But what I find interesting is that no one really tries to stop him and the fandom considers it completely justified. I can’t help but think despite it being two different series and fandoms that Katara’s gender has at least something to do with this. When a male character wants to seek revenge and kill the murderer to do it, the narrative and fans justify it but when it’s a female character she’s vilified, seen as out of control and letting her emotions get the better of her. I hate when people say Aang was right to say what he did and try to stop Katara from making her own choice. It doesn’t help that we know Bryke is misogynistic based on well everything to do with their female characters post series after they didn’t have the talented writers who actually understood the characters helping them. And sure I know Bryke themselves didn’t write The Southern Raiders but we know from script leaks that there were more shippy Zutara moments that were cut and I think we know who’s to blame for that. So I wouldn’t be surprised if they still influenced the more problematic parts of that episode. Such as Aang and Katara never talking about or resolving their conflict, Sokka calling Aang wise beyond his years and never talking about or resolving his side if things with Katara, and even Zuko weirdly agreeing with Aang at the end that “you were right about what Katara needed.” Even though she literally just told Aang a second ago that he was wrong and she would never forgive him and doesn’t know why she couldn’t kill him. If you couldn’t tell I have rather mixed feelings about TSR episode.

Sorry for the ramble. How do you think their conversations (Katara, Aang, and Sokka) would go if they were to talk about it all after the episode?

oh misogyny definitely plays a part - just compare the way people react to inigo montoya from the princess bride vs katara in tsr - but i think the bigger issue is the overt narrative framing of the episode.

on a first watch, tsr appears to push a very simplistic idea of "violence = bad" and strongly favours aang's perspective, which encourages the viewer to see him as being in the right while katara and zuko appear to be in the wrong. the fact that aang never changes his perspective and both zuko and sokka are (forcibly and very uncharacteristically) made to take his side by the end naturally inclines the audience to do so as well.

it's only with a closer reading that you see a more nuanced take which highlights the flaws in aang's thinking and treatment of katara. katara herself makes it clear that what aang wanted her to do would not have helped her find closure, and she began her healing process without ever forgiving yon rha - which is exactly why i hate people attributing her decision not to kill yon rha to aang when she explicitly stated she did not and would not ever do what he wanted her to!

these are the same people who will also blame zuko for being a "bad influence" on katara, as if the only reason she hunted down her own mother's killer is because zuko convinced her to do it. katara isn't some weeping willow to be bent to the will of zuko and aang; her decisions are her own, not based on the whims of the boys in her life. can we please stop stripping katara of all her agency in the one episode that actually focuses on her trauma and healing?

rant aside, i do wish that katara had talked to sokka after this episode and i imagine there would be some apologising on both sides. sokka - a realistic sokka, because my god was he wildly out of character - would probably check in on her and admit that he was afraid for her safety and well-being. katara would likely apologise for the "you didn't love her the way i did!" remark and i think it would've been nice for them to finally talk about kya and for katara to bring up the conversation she overheard from the runaway about how sokka confessed to seeing her as a surrogate mother.

(imo the impact hearing that would've had on katara was largely downplayed in the show, and is likely part of the reason she reacted to sokka the way she did in the southern raiders, but that's a post for another time.)

the katara-aang conversation would probably have gone the same way that it did in canon, because the issues with their dynamic in tsr are part of the underlying problems with the kat.aang relationship in general. i would've liked to see aang have a little more of a reaction to katara saying she never forgave yon rha (he doesn't seem affected at all in the show), and for that to maybe prompt him to really reflect on what he said.

but ultimately what really has to be tackled here is aang's idealization of katara and his focus on clinging to air nomad values at the expense of those from the other nations - and those problems run too deep to be fixed in a single episode or conversation. the southern raiders would have been a good starting point, but unfortunately the finale never engages with these issues, and so what could've been a great arc ends up going nowhere at all.

[whateverisbeautiful]

♥️ Ranking Richonne

#9: The Two Of Us (S7E12)

This is one of those scenes that dreams are made of. 🤩 It's perfect. Rick and Michonne happy makes me so happy, and that’s what we get in this super important proposal scene. It's the moment Rick and Michonne make it clear that they are Mr. and Mrs. Grimes until the end of time. 🎉 And this is my favorite scene from Say Yes. So one more time for Richonne’s tender, funny, sexy, heartfelt, and gorgeous love letter episode and this scene right here that embodies all of that 🥂...

First, I love the candlelight glow of this scene. They both look so beautiful and perfect together while enjoying a honeymoon date. I also like knowing that the staging was deliberately set up to channel the classic rom-com Sixteen Candles. Rick and Michonne's story is a romance through and through. 👌🏽

(and this ep was even giving rom-com with certain funny moments like the honorable mention "You can handle 8" scene where Michonne teases Rick about leaving her 8 walkers to kill as opposed to his one. 😋)

This Say Yes dinner date always makes me think about an honorable mention s4 finale scene when Rick and Michonne sat together after dinner with faces lit by a fire as they expressed forgetting "what this feels like." And now, here they are in s7 enjoying a candle-lit dinner and allowing themselves to feel the deepest love for each other. Won't He do it!

This is seriously one of their most romantic scenes and I’m smiling from the moment I first see them eating those MRE's with the cute dinner date setup to the very end when Rick surprises Michonne with another MRE. 🤗

I love that they’re all smiley when talking about the food at the top of the scene and then they have this leaders' conversation about what the plan is after they kill Negan. They communicate so tenderly and attentively even when talking "business."

And it is always the sweetest thing to hear Michonne express so much belief in her man when she tells Rick he should be the one in charge of the new world they’re creating. Rick has a lot of supporters, but no one believes in Rick more than Michonne. 😊

Michonne saying, "It should be you" just melts my heart, and I think it melts Rick's heart too cuz he reacts with this genuine smile and a little laugh. Rick says, "Not me" and Michonne again uplifts him, believing so strongly that he’d be good at it. She respects him so much and I love that Rick got to see that here.

And then it’s always great that she adds, "If it’s something that you wanted," giving him the choice. And Rick is honest that he doesn’t think he would want to be the sole guy in charge.

It’s refreshing seeing Rick have the space to express both what he does and doesn’t want for himself in this episode. Because he knows with Michonne he can be honest and human in every way.

So then Rick pauses as he prepares to tell Michonne what he most wants for his life and for the future. And I love that he gets specific with it, saying “The two of us, you and me, reordering things together...” 🥰

Then the shot stays on Michonne’s glowing gorgeous face as she realizes just what Rick is really saying by saying this. 🥹

And I love Rick's nervous breath before he gears up to express to Michonne just how much she is what he wants. After that breath, he looks into her eyes and says with conviction, "I want that. If it's something you wanted."

It’s a proposal, y’all. 🤩 What every proposal really equates to is someone telling the love of their life, 'I want it to be the two of us building a life and a world together' - and this is exactly that. And from his delivery, Rick knows this is a significant proposal.

It’s really sweet the vulnerable way Rick adds 'if it’s something you wanted.' He's always cared so much about Michonne's wants and at this moment this is him hoping that he is something she wants. Especially since she is so much of what he wants.

Michonne smiles and reassuringly says, "yeah" because the two of them together have always been what she wanted too. She knows they’re going to do life side by side from here on out, the way they have always done and the way magnets are meant to.😌

How these two respond after this exchange says they know what they’ve just expressed. This moment is so much more than just agreeing to lead together. They know they’ve agreed to spend the rest of their life as a married couple. Hallelu 🥳

And it’s so sweet how Rick and Michonne both smile here with this little twinkle in their eye because, in all the craziness of this world, they found their soulmate. They found a love supreme, and I appreciate that they took this moment to just openly celebrate that. 

Then of course I love that they seal this proposal with a very passionate kiss. And I swear the way Rick and Michonne look at each other after every kiss is always as passionate as the kiss itself. 😍

Also, I used to always think this was a sweet wedding-ceremony-like kiss - and it definitely is that commitment kiss...but then someone pointed out how Rick is kissing her, and I realized this is also an “if there wasn’t a makeshift table between us, it would go down right here and now” kiss. Lol I forgot just how passionate it was, but I'm all the way here for it. Richonne stays kissing like their life depends on it. 🔥

And I adore Michonne kissing his hand after and then her little bashful smile as she sees the adoring way Rick looks at her. 🥹

And the way Rick is just captivated by her and then looks away with a smile, practically dizzy from this blissful union - Their every look, line delivery, and move in this scene was just the exact perfect choice. I'll never get over it.👌🏽👩🏽‍🍳💋

Michonne makes Rick laugh by cutely saying she’s going to eat 5 more dinners, and Rick again pitches that they should stay out longer. And honestly, me and him were on the same page cuz Rick and Michonne really deserved more time to have just to themselves. So Rick...

I love how he’s adamant they can take their time and tries to subtly slip in extending the trip not just one more day but even "another after that." Rick can never get enough of her and I love it. 😊

Michonne watches her man, knowing there might be more to the story with how he's feeling. But also the way she’s looking at him, you know the pitch to stay out is enticing. And it's cute hearing Rick say, "we found the only way in..." as in - we fell through the roof. 😂

Even when Michonne says a hesitant "we should get back," Rick still is like...

He's still sticking to the fact that it’s all good if they stay out longer. To which I was like, this man is perfect and correct.

And then it is just maximum cuteness when he tries a new approach and says he’s been meaning to show her that one MRE. And his playful delivery of the "...together" part. It’s all just gold.🤗

I love that Rick's romantic heart is always thinking of how to gift Michonne and that moments like this show that they know each other well enough to know just what could put a smile on the other's face.

I mean, even later in this very episode, in a lovely honorable mention scene where Michonne runs into Rick's arms for the embrace of life after thinking walkers got to him, that whole predicament was spurred by Rick wanting to gift Michonne that deer.

And then, even when Michonne is simply relieved and grateful he's alive, Rick still whispers that he owes her one. Did I mention Rick Grimes is Man of the Year every year? 😋

(also y'all, looking at this 7.12 hug just reminds me how that TOWL reunion moment between Rick and Michonne is about to be pure passionate perfection🔥)

It's just a fact that the man loves finding ways to make her smile. And Michonne’s smitten smile when she takes the MRE shows Rick has fully won her over and stole her heart for the umpteenth time. 

How great is it that this pulsating love between them never ever waned throughout the series, it just kept increasing each season. 🙌🏾

I love that in an episode focused on Rick and Michonne, they knew to include a romantic candlelit dinner scene where the two express wanting their future to be spent together.

It's a big deal because even just thinking about the future wasn’t always something these characters could do since it had to be about just surviving to the next day.

And it’s great that now, having some time to even think about what the future looks like, Rick makes it clear that when he sees his future, he sees Michonne.

He wants Michonne by his side going forward, no matter what else the future holds. And Michonne wants the very same thing. That's marriage. That's love. 🥰

So yeah, the whole dang scene is just heartwarming times ten, and I love that we’ll always have this incredibly beautiful moment as part of Richonne's journey.

Like despite an apocalypse and despite Negan's reign, we still got a whole honeymoon episode that more than delivered. The Richonne ship is seriously an abundance of riches. 🤩

This proposal scene establishes that Rick and Michonne are lifelong partners in love, 🗣 they are husband and wife, and, in every way, they are each other's future.

After going canon in season 6, things really amped up with Negan and the Saviors being introduced and all that, and so this was really one of the first times we got to see Rick and Michonne just enjoy some alone time as an official couple. And, of course, the whole scene and whole episode was everything and further proof that Rick and Michonne loved each other, wanted each other, and belonged together.

And it also affirmed that Richonne would stay together, be it in person or in spirit, forever. 😌

[justfandomwritings]

An essay on why I won’t be watching next season.

1. Obviously actors have to promote their shows and hype them up. But the interactions between Nicola and Luke during the press tour were, in retrospect, clearly also acting performances, and it is rare to see acting within the press tour to the degree that those two put on while grossly exaggerating things like how sexy this season would be or how much Polin we would get. I don’t blame them. It’s clearly what they were told to do. And it’s fine to hype a show, but I think a lot of people felt genuinely lied to with the WAY this season was hyped.

2. The casting has been color conscious and inclusive in a way I greatly admire. But they have not been inclusive in other ways. And that’s not to say they should have to be. One show shouldn’t bear the responsibility of being inclusive to everyone and making up for an industries worth of exclusion. But we have exactly one size inclusive character in this whole show, and I’m not even demanding more, but to butcher the season of the only size inclusive person in this show this badly and in these ways sends me a clear message of what the writers thought they could get away with with a curvy actress and how they saw her.

3. The wait times for this season and next season are just too long. The hype dies down too much between seasons such that we care less and less each time we get a new one, especially when you only give eight episodes, regardless of their length. You know who also gave us a season in 2022 and then an eight episode season this year? house of the dragon. And they have to CGI a fuck ton of dragons. Yall were sitting on this season being done filming for over a year and for what? What did you do in post? A bee? And then to have the audacity to do it in two parts? Fuck off.

4. Add to that. The costumes and new sets looked so much cheaper this season than previous seasons. Where did the budget go.

5. The plot is too crowded. Maybe you thought a curvy girl couldn’t carry a season. Maybe it was bad writing. Obviously you needed Cressida and Eloise to have decent amounts of screen time but you also did half of Francesca’s story and set one up for Violet and Benedict that collectively took the majority of the screen time and left us with very little Pen and Colin. Which was a disservice you never gave Anthony or Daphne’s seasons and was why they were good. We got enough crumbs of the others to tell us what was happening but not enough to make them feel like main characters or to make it feel like an ensemble show. There were leads in season 1 and 2. This season it was an ensemble with too many moving parts. But everyone’s said that. It’s not surprising.

6. My biggest problem is the tone. The blame. Admittedly I’m a woman who relates strongly to Penelope so I’m not impartial here. But for a character who spends her entire life being abused by every single person in this show, who is pushed to her absolute breaking point before finally giving her mother and the tonne a taste of their own medicine. For that character to receive no grace, no understanding, no respect, for the vast majority of the season hurt. To not only have zero understanding of her situation but to frame the entire plot of the show around the fact that SHE alone should be sorry. To have minimal to no groveling from Colin over what he said last season, to have no acknowledgment of how he treated her as a safety net, to humanize Cressida who made her life hell with minimal acknowledgment of that fact, to have Eloise get ONE comment from Cressida of all people about her friendship with Penelope but no real reflection from Eloise or acknowledgment on her part or apologies for what a truly SHIT friend she was for DECADES. That hurt. Because the message is that sure, they can push you to your fucking limit, you can break after years of being bullied for your weight and your looks and your status. Your own mother and sisters hands can be filthy with insults and abuse. Your friends can treat you like utter garbage for years. They can befriend your bullies. Your soon to be husband can, very recently, insult you to his friends behind your back. But you owe them the apology for breaking after years of abuse. It’s not that the tonne couldn’t be angry or that they all should’ve fallen at Pen’s feet. It’s that those arguments never happen at all because once again, just like when she was being used and abused by everyone, everything was put on Penelope. And the cycle continues.

7. Colin should’ve groveled more. I know I said that in the previous point but it really ruined things for me so I want to emphasize it. I wanted that man on his knees the whole season, and I should’ve known I wasn’t gonna get that when y’all dropped the list of songs and there wasn’t any of the A List Yearners on the list. But I’m still mad.

8. Actually that’s a good point. Did anyone else think the songs didn’t go as hard this year? Except Pitbull were we excited about any of them?

9. You did the Pride and Prejudice ballroom trick with the dancing alone thing and you didn’t nail it. If you’re gonna do that trick it has to fucking HIT. (And it has to be enemies to lovers.) And you did it half assed. You should be ashamed.

10. There was a two second window there when Cressida asked the maid for help where I thought they were gonna swap lives and the maid would go with her aunt and Cressida would become a maid and I was like “holy fuck is Cressida gonna become Bennys love interest?” and that would’ve been better than what y’all did I think. And it would’ve justified her excessive screen time.

11. I love gender swapping Michaela and making Francesca bi. We love it. But why was Francesca immediately interested. Once again the writers don’t understand pining. Michaela is PINING for Francesca and can do nothing but love her from afar. Francesca loved John completely and whole heartedly. Michaela was a beautiful love story for her but was also a second chance. She loved John completely. She would never have an emotional affair on him. How did you immediately ruin such a beautiful second chance romance?

12. Where was Pen’s friendship with Anthony or Lady Danbury? Why wasn’t Colin proud of Pen the way he was in the book? To make her even more alone? To emphasize that she was alone and at fault and helpless? Fuck off.

I just don’t have it in me to watch this show deteriorate further.

[scoobydoodean]

I was wondering if you, as a Dean fan have opinions about the different writers? Mostly because I see a lot of Dean fans really strongly dislike Dabb for some reason and I don’t really understand why. I’ve never seen a concrete explanation beyond “he can’t write Dean/doesn’t understand Dean/actively hates Dean” but with no examples as to what he does that’s so bad. And I see this in every shipping lane. I don’t have a strong opinion about him as a writer one way or the other.

I'm exploring this more as I rewatch the show (currently on season 6) so I'll speak mainly from that perspective on my most recent thoughts. I am not a big fan of Dabb or Loflin, but have tried to be fair about things so far when talking through each episode. I am a fan of "Alpha and Omega"—it's my favorite finale (it's also... a finale for a season Carver started as showrunner? So I don't know what the implications are there as far as storyboarding). Also points for having demon Dean stab a guy through in 10.02.

I'll focus on the negatives you asked about in this post, but in the links you'll find me moving the narrative this way and that toward much more charitable readings... I think. (I do have a tag #dabb disk horse which you can either peruse or blacklist at your leisure). What I can tell you is something almost always strikes me as a off about Dabb/Loflin episodes so far in this rewatch in terms of character work.

Dabb/Loflin's first ever episode was 4.06 "Yellow Fever". In the aftermath, Kripke felt the need to release a definitive interpretation of their episode to the public, stating, "Dean is not a dick... he's a hero." The whole episode toyed with, to an extent, the idea that all the victims of the MotW were bullies. You can take this other directions—for example, queer meta, or meta about Sam as the real bully. However, the story a lot of fandom latched onto was that "Dean is a jerk and deserves to be humiliated and punished for that" which obviously didn't make Dean fans watching live in season 4 happy—and this theme of Jerk!Dean continues into their next episode, "After School Special", where they once again parallel Dean with a bully literally nicknamed "Dirk the Jerk" by Sam, and throw what I think is transparent shade at Kripke's issued statement from before the Christmas break (post here)... or maybe they mean to throw shade at the Dean fans who got angry. In this episode, they also make illusions to Dean wanting to have sex with barely legal high school cheerleaders, which also did not ingratiate them to Deanfans at the time. I said on my last rewatch, "In After School Special, Dean seems more unlike himself than any episode ever in the history of Supernatural up to this point" (post explaining that here). I carry similar sentiments about portions of 5.06 "I Believe The Children Are Our Future". Yes—I am aware of performing Dean meta. I just... feel like they try a little too hard. It feels hamfisted—desperate. To the point it doesn't feel like Dean anymore sometimes. In 5.06, they also have Dean (guy who is generally very protective of kids) suggest to Jesse that he'd be good to have in a fight???? I can see how they got there, but again—it just feels... off. The last episode I rewatched that they authored, 6.04 "Weekend At Bobby's", also leaves a bad taste in my mouth—not in what it's trying to do with Bobby or what it's trying to do on a meta level—but once again, with dialogue from Dean that just makes me think "he would not fucking say that" (post here). I think looking at all of these, you can probably see deangirl ire toward Dabb has a long history. It's been around as long as he's been around, whether he deserves as much ire as he gets or not.

I haven't circled back yet on this rewatch, but Dabb and Loflin also penned season 7's "The Girl Next Door"... do I need to say anything specific? Maybe I'll just link my entire #amy tag. What narrative did they want you to get from that episode? Who the fuck knows. And that's often the problem:

When you watch various episodes I've mentioned, you can work around to a meta that tells you something different than you might at first think the page conveys—something hidden and maybe contradictory. The thing is... you could also... not do that? And that wouldn't be so bad, except that sometimes the two narratives you can most easily grasp completely contradict each other. "After School Special" can be an episode that points to Sam's envy of Dean and John deep down and foreshadows Sam becoming a bully, but on a meta level, it also just as easily says Sam becoming a bully is somehow Dean's fault, and Sam is some poor captive baby. Dean is a creep and a bully and a cheater but we should all coddle him because he saw his mom die when he was a child and he's sooo sad. "Yellow Fever" can be a queer meta story and might also foreshadow approaching Bully!Sam in 4.14, but it also very much does call Dean a jerk (should we take that seriously? should we not?) and implies Dean should be punished for the outcome of three decades of reality-bending torture. Even if it's a queer meta underneath... it's just as easily one about how closeted men should be humiliated for cowardice or how being closeted turns you into an asshole.

Jumping way ahead, I have to mention 15.10 "The Hero's Journey" just because. Yes, it is full of jokes and Garth goodness, but also tries to sell you the story that nothing about Sam and Dean is real, to a degree that feels like you are being flipped the bird for ever watching this show. And again—you can make meta that it's all a ruse! But is it? Or is Dabb actually just telling you to go fuck yourself? Like he totally wasn't when, after the SPN finale when fans were Not Happy™️, he tweeted a sign reading, "Don't feed the baboons"? Yet again—we play into the motif of the "hero" who isn't a hero at all but some pathetic loser who deserves to be publicly humiliated, bookended with Dabb's opening episode in his opening season. I'm not saying that's what it is on purpose—but I am saying you can make these arguments easily, and that leaves me consistently annoyed with Dabb for being fucking sloppy and leaving me to deal with some of the most insufferable meta imaginable that carries little support outside of episodes written by Dabb or the Dabb/Loflin writing team.... Yes—I am in fact saying that Dabb and Loflin's hamfisted episodes (regardless of their intentions) are largely responsible for some of the most insufferable, loathesome fandom metas about Sam and Dean's relationship around.

Look at 5.16 "Dark Side Of The Moon", and 7.08 "Time for A Wedding!" and 8.14 "Trial and Error", 11.17 "Red Meat", and 15.20 "Carry On". Along with 4.13, while they might or might not say something deeper or contradictory on a meta level, on a surface level, every single one of these episodes sows the narrative that Dean is needy and clingy and needs Sam more than Sam needs him—something I intensely disagree with for a multitude of reasons... but I'll just link this. Many of these episodes also follow a surface level narrative of "normal life obsessed Sam" (and here I'll link my entire #sam the hunter tag and #in which sam is not a helpless little waif with his hands cast over his eyes being carried along by the tides of the immutable sea). When I look at this episode list, I also don't find it at all difficult to believe that Dabb wanted Dean to die in the finale. There is nothing at all shocking about that. And yes—you can argue he's pointing to the opposite—that this fate should be subverted and that's what makes 15.20 the dark ending, but I think you can just as easily argue that yes it's a dark ending and yes Dabb has always dreamed of this ending. A "tragic" ending where Dean dies and Sam goes on to have a white picket fence... while also leaving you little hints along the way that maybe it's all a big ruse because how could he not? He never has to explain anything. Someone else will pick up the story and make it make sense. He's already fucked off to piss all over fans of Resident Evil.

That said, when I mention what I feel is off character work, I mainly mention Dabb/Loflin episodes from my recent rewatch, which suffer from the two of them being newer to the series (coming onto the writing team in season 4) and also leave questions about whether, perhaps, they had conflicting ideas about characterization. Was Dabb the one penning these lines? Was it Loflin? Was it both? Did they trade out who took the lead? I didn't really say anything negative about "Sam, Interrupted" or "Jump the Shark"... (though "Sam, Interrupted" also calls Dean "codependent") who wrote those? Is it possible that the messiness of the meta comes down to two writers at war? I have to imagine though, that they got along, or else they wouldn't have written together for four fucking years. If they didn't get along...? My mind always comes back to their first solo episodes, right after splitting up in season 8. Dabb's first solo episode is "Hunteri Heroici"—the only episode to lend any perspective to season 8 Sam's reasons for abandoning everyone—paralleling him checking out with Fred's catatonia, which Sam has to save Fred from. It is the only episode that lends Sam sympathy in the early part of the season. He follows it up with "Trial and Error"—where Sam promises to save Dean from suicidal thoughts. Loflin's first solo episode is what I would regard as the most scathing solo episode commentary on Sam in the entire series—"Citizen Fang". Then he writes again right after Dabb's "Trial and Error"—penning "Remember The Titans" where Sam tells Dean to get over the promise Sam so passionately made in Dabb's episode and face reality.

This is why we're exploring this rewatch.

DISCLAIMER: Now I just devolve into bitching because I'm writing at 3AM. Proceed at your own risk.

It seems like these days, everyone demands an explanation for disliking Dabb (something about some sort of destiel battle... I don't know what that flamewar is and I don't give a damn tbqh.) I guess I've just been wondering what's actually so great about him. Because it feels like people have overcorrected to basically acting like he's god's greatest gift to mankind. People point to how meta his episodes can be, but I think other writers easily best him on that front on multiple occasions (particularly enjoyed by me so far on this rewatch: 3.10 "Dream A Little Dream Of Me", 4.04 "Monster Movie", 4.12 "Criss Angel Is A Douchebag"), and without leaving their meaning so up in the air that you don't even know what the hell they were actually trying to tell you because there are two different completely incongruous narratives you could just as justifiably claim were the intended one. Some people may find that duality praise-worthy. I don't. I find it sloppy—and when I add in mediocre character work, I just land on the side of him being, at the very best, mid.

Add him in as showrunner, you have... at least two of my least favorite seasons (13 and 15). Add that he's a one-trick pony in terms of the Sam and Dean conflicts mentioned above that he continuously rehashes rather than come up with anything new or fresh, and the same conflicts between Dean and Cas being played out until they both die (shut UP I'm not talking about canon destiel as the alternative—I am literally just asking for more diverse conflicts). I can't say I understand what I''m supposed to find so impressive.

(Before anyone so much as breathes this near me, Berens also sucks and I am going to tear off your nose hairs if you start bringing him up as if disliking Dabb for some reason means wearing rose colored glasses about Berens. Berens can eat a whole cactus raw over "The Trap" alone.)

[kenananamin]

Nanami watching a reality show

a very short list of hcs about nanami kento watching a reality show bc i was watching jersey shore, the hills, and sister wives and wondered what he would think about those shows and reality shows in general lol enjoy!

always avoided watching them bc gojo gave him enough drama and he did not want more

passes you the control and tells you to put whatever you'd like since he was gonna finish his report and read his newspaper for a bit

you put on a reality show, and he doesn't do it but he feels like groaning just from hearing the cast speak

he's a quarter of the way in one section of the newspaper when he hears some of the juiciest comebacks he has ever heard in his life

he doesn't lift his head the whole way but he watches the tv for a bit under his eyebrows

the thing is, nanami is a lowkey chismoso aka nosy

he skims through the rest of the newspaper and closes it and leans back w you to watch. you ask if he wants to change it and get ready to pass him the remote but he stops you and says to keep watching it bc he's getting up in a bit to make lunch anyways

does not get up to make lunch, y'all end up ordering in and nanami asks who each person is 10 times before finally (kinda) remembering names and understanding the dynamics

he'll shake his head and quietly mumble, "damn, that so messy" or "why would anyone in their right mind do that?"

is very shocked at half the things they do or say, but tries to hold in his laughter when someone says something ridiculous

quickly has nicknames for the cast and has his favorites

strongly dislikes the instigator and sits on the edge of the couch when someone stands up to them... but also looks forward to what the instigator does next

watches 90 day fiancé w you and grunts about the episode length but quietly watches... and enjoys

watches 90 day fiancé the other way and enjoys the way americans complain

can only watch a bit everyday and compares reality shows to medication, can only do so much at a time

will later ask which shows you've watched and looks them up when he's alone

will give you updates on the casts after looking them up on social media. "did you know she got married? i think they'll cover that in the next season?"

takes mental notes of contradictions and reminds you of these contradictions during the reunions

feels himself getting irrationally upset at some of these people and has to remind himself it might be scripted

will eventually ask if you'd like to watch a more wholesome reality show to balance out the dramatic ones

later falls into the hole of survival shows

gets a bit sulky if you watch the shows without him

hates to admit that he wants to get back home and watch one of these shows

quietly asks if you'd like to have a weekly reality show day w him where you can relax all day (or most of it at least) and have snacks, order in and just watch watch and comment on these shows

these end up being one of his favorite moments of the week w you, snuggling and enjoying brain rotting television

extras about certain shows:

prays that angelina is removed from the shore house, that sammi and ron separate for their own good, and mike gets the help he needs (is happy when it all happens except for when angelina comes back in the family vacation spin-off)

lowkey wants to rewatch the hills after the ending leaves him wondering how scripted the entire show was (you go back to explain the drama behind that and how it was mtv poking fun at it all)

has given up on trying to learn the names of the kids in sister wives. knows their faces, not their names. feels like he has personal beef with kody. wants to catch up on all recent drama.

[confirmeddead]

Can we take a second to reflect on the truly f*cked up intimacy that exists between Armand and Daniel - and which might come to exist? Even if we put away the possibility of a past-DM relationship!

Armand potentially spent days - days - looking through Daniel’s mind looking specifically for what makes him fascinating. Looking for the reason behind Louis’ interest. Looking through all of his life, dreams, hopes and shame. All of this then resulting in Armand trying to talk Daniel out of his own life through a nihilistic script specifically tailored to him. Ending with that embrace (as Daniel embraced him as his Death), and him drinking Daniel’s blood, and forever leaving his mark on his neck. Then we have Daniel Molloy, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who is many things but most importantly a very competent journalist. Someone who is able to listen, gather research and find some version of the truth hidden behind the smoke and mirrors his subjects tries to conjure up in front of them. The Talamasca has sent him detailed files, which we know reveal a lot of the history and horrors of Armand’s life. Will Daniel in the finale use his skills as a journalist and analyze Armand to get to the truth? (As he does with Louis, as already seen). There is basically a level of enforced intimacy between the two, as they have both without the other’s consent learnt a lot(!) about each other. And if speculation is correct and Armand turns Daniel into a vampire this season? Will Armand see Daniel’s life flash before him? And if that is not intimate enough(!) they will then both be left with a bond unlike anything else - which has been shown to literally make maker/fledgling ’feel’ each other, their respective emotions and thoughts. Like what even is this relationship, and can I get more please haha?! If DM didn’t happen in the past will Armand go to drain Daniel and realize as he does so that the boy from the 70’s still finds him absolutely fascinating? (I strongly believe that Armand believes Daniel when he claims to not find him boring in episode five). Daniel is an insatiably curious journalist with an addictive personality (and maybe a little of an adrenaline junkie, no?) - and Armand must surely be a truly fascinating subject, even given what Armand’s done to him (one vampire might not be enough to interview/to come to understand for Daniel…). Will Armand see that and will that be partially what makes him suddenly decide to turn him??? Their chemistry has been interesting since season one and has only become more intriguing and compelling. I have so many thought, many not really coherent - sorry, love you blog! What do you think?

Hi Anon! First off, let me thank you for sending in your thoughts. I really love having conversations with other fans, especially regarding Devil’s Minion and Armand. I’ll set aside the possible past-DM as well, by the way. Buckle up!

There’s something really important being set up for viewers with Armand and Daniel’s relationship. Let’s look at what the show has presented us with. Armand and Daniel’s meeting was, quite possibly, the worst way for two people to meet. Looking into someone so deeply and, through your own selfish reasons (jealousy on Armand’s part), continuing to coax this young man into Death’s arms is inherently messed up. This isn’t something anyone should take lightly, and Daniel doesn’t. Therein lies the odd set up to their eventual maker/fledgling relationship. I love what you say is “enforced intimacy” because that really is what it is!

Daniel’s character is a juxtaposition when most of who we’re seeing are these immortal vampires. He’s our voice when we want to tell off them off, he’s our conscience and sense when we’re presented with lies, horrible situations, and straight up buffoonery. Putting this man in the same room with The Not-So-Master Manipulator Armand is going to give us some amazing results. He isn’t a 20 year old who will welcome Death with open arms, he’s a bright reporter with just about every point of view a human can have gone through at this point. And this is what will perk Armand’s interest.

I fully believe Armand finds Daniel fascinating already. I don’t think he saw it in SF, marred by his own feelings with Louis, but was open to the idea of trying to see it for the sake of Louis. There’s a huge part of Armand that wants to serve someone, wants a teacher, wants a leader. The teacher part being something he knows he seeks- he sought it in Louis. Louis’ big appeal to others is his humanity, something Armand lacks but craves. And Daniel, not intentionally, is going to give Armand this dynamic he seeks to give him purpose to keep living.

Older Daniel has decades under his belt with his profession and his personal history. Aging up Daniel and having him be this well-respected journalist is probably the smartest thing the writers could have done for the ~bigger picture~ in regards to Armand’s storyline (since he’s such a big player in TVC). We the viewers are presented with someone intelligent, strong-willed, and cutthroat. What can Armand gain from being with someone like that? Literally everything. He’s not a replacement for Marius, Lestat, or Louis. He’s something Armand genuinely needs after everything he’s gone through (and put himself through, let’s be honest). I’ll rehash one of my previous theories that Daniel isn’t the Boy we met in the books who went a little crazy after being turned- our Daniel is a fighter- and he should be ringside on Team Armand. A coach, a shoulder to lean on, an active listener.

So present-day Dubai

I think after everything is said and done in Dubai, Daniel will find the vulnerability in his next subject. He’ll have cracked Armand but will be shocked to find the soft(ish) interior. Daniel will see Armand for who he really is- someone stuck in a loop of their own trauma but also someone with real feelings and love to give. Not just a monster manipulator. Still that scared boy from Delhi, maybe, but not a lost cause. Never.

I’d really love a callback to 2x05. No, Daniel isn’t going to talk Armand onto the ledge, he’s going to be what Louis was to him. You’re not unworthy of love, you’re not hopeless, you’ve made it this far and you’ll continue enduring. These words will hold you up and carry you.

[amyrlinegwene]

It’s become really apparent to me how TV has changed based on the shorter seasons.

I feel like so many TV shows want to tell really in-depth complicated plots, but they’re only given eight episodes (sometimes less). And this can work if you have a smaller cast, or you are very strict about who the core cast is, for example in succession, the core characters are the family unit and the secondary characters—the people who work at the company— are not given a similar level of focus, the actors do a really great job of conveying who those characters and what their motivations are, but they still leave you wanting more because ultimately, you know, you might get a hint of something in the script that you can’t go into in depth.

I think the problem is trying to fit a really complicated plot(s) in an eight episode season that also has an extremely large cast of characters that they want to focus on. I see this in Wheel of Time, I saw it in The Gilded Age too.

And one of the main ways I feel like the stories really suffer is that you don’t really get to sit with a story or the implication of things that happen like you do if there is a longer season. For example, there’s a lot of cutaways right after dramatic event instead of seeing peoples’ reactions and afterwards reactions are implied, or perhaps you skip an important scene altogether, and then just tell people that it happened. 

And I think there’s choices that you can maybe make as a writer or a director once or twice for a meaningful reason, but sometimes it happens so often it really feels like it’s only to save time. You didn’t want to see the character having in that emotional reaction for more than two seconds because you don’t have enough time the episode to focus on them, now you have to go to someone else’s plot. Or you skipped over that explanation/event to just have the character have already found out in the next scene because you know if they were to have that scene, it would take up at least a couple minutes because of course they would react to strongly to that news. But now they have known for hours/days etc so their reaction is stale and can be implied with a withering look or a long sigh and a quick mention to let the audience know that something happened.

When you have a large ensemble cast in a short season, there simply isn’t time to give everyone a meaningful plot all the time or there isn’t time to examine everyone’s deeper characterization as a result of their plot; this often ends up with audiences wanting more and writers relying slightly on stereotypes or character tropes to help round out the character in audiences minds.

I really hope the strike helps reverse the trend of shorter and shorter seasons for television shows, because while not every show needs to be more than eight episodes, many shows would benefit from the ability to have more time to tell their story. It is wild to me that a 12 or 13 episode season for a drama series is now a long season to me.

[bird-inacage]

Only Friends: What Led to Ray's Explosive Tirade (Playing 'The Bad Guy')

I have to admit that this was not how I expected this scene to play out. I was just as flabbergasted as everyone else at first. However I think there's one clear thing that Ray's outburst reminded me off: no matter whether you reveal the truth or keep it to yourself - either way, you are the bad guy.

I'm NOT the Villain

As Boston very derisively claims, if Ray reveals the truth of the affair, he'll be the one unleashing the damage. A similar parallel to what Boston did last episode (with very different intentions may I add, but damage is damage nonetheless).

Mew is incredibly important to Ray. If we talk simply outside of Ray's love for him, Ray wants to treat him well, repay him for his kindness and support over the years. Therefore, once Ray was in possession of this information, he felt very strongly that Mew needed to know. He knew telling Mew was the right thing to do. He does genuinely care about Mew as a person.

Does he warn Mew and ruin his present happiness (which is based on a lie)? Or does he hold his tongue and potentially watch his friend get hurt from other mistreatments by Top further down the line?

Ray doesn't want to hurt Mew in any way. He doesn't want to be the bringer of bad news. Why should it have to fall to him to reveal this awful act of betrayal to someone he cares for so much? And when Mew supposedly doesn't react in the way he expects to this information, Ray goes ballistic with frustration, concern and anger. Why is he the bad guy for trying to help his friend, when Top can seemingly get away with it, and be in everyone's good graces even when he's completely undeserving? Why can no one else see Top's true colours?

I'm NOT the Worst

Something else that occurred to me throughout this episode, is how often Ray's friends belittle and overlook him. And it's so routine they hardly even notice.

Boston has never tried to hide his snide little back-handed comments at Ray. Since their fight at Sand's, he's become even more callous when throwing quips in plain sight. Namcheum makes an observation about all of them being partnered up, and it's only after a few beats that April points out Ray is still single. It's as if they forgot he was even there. Namcheum doesn't tend to pick up on any of the animosity or tension within this group. She's generally not the most tactful or best at reading people.

Then when Ray speaks to Mew in the bathroom, Mew immediately assumes Ray's been taking drugs. Ray looks clearly stunned by this. Yes, he's always coined as the 'drunk' but that's not his one and only personality trait. That's not all he does and is as a person.

It dawns on Ray that even his closest friends seem to always assume the very worst of him. He had a bad feeling about Top from the offset but no one cared or listened. Rather, Ray never gets given the benefit of the doubt, when he's not committed anything as problematic as the heinous crimes amongst their group. Particularly when compared to Top, someone who gets all the praise and adoration when Ray knows he's a certified piece of shit, is desperately unfair. And most of all Top gets the respect of the best friend he loves.

I think what really sent the situation hurtling south was Ray watching everyone play happy families, when he knows there is a web of dishonesty and resentment lurking beneath. It's all a farce. And Ray couldn't stomach it for another moment longer. He had enough.

Become the Very Thing You Loathe

In Episode 4, Ray displays a classic example of self-loathing and self punishment when he goads Sand to scold him. In doing so, it's as if he's deriving some warped form of satisfaction in owning these criticisms. Because he's told these things so often, he starts to believe it, so why not own it too? I actually mentioned this in my Episode 1 meta (regarding Ray's self-actualisation of becoming a burden). Sometimes embracing the very thing you hate being know for, at least validates the presence of that criticism. 'If people keep calling me an asshole, then fine, I'll become an asshole. At least then being called an asshole makes sense.'

So Ray brought it on himself to air out everyone's dirty laundry. 'Fuck it, if you really all think I'm the worst, then fine, I'll do what needs to be done, I'll be the worst. You all happy now?'

Even though Ray adopts the persona forced onto him, he's not happy about it at all. He wants to be identified with more substance, with more credit, as more than just what everyone claims him to be.

[princessmotif]

what iroh should have been, and how it would've impacted zuko and azula's arcs

in terms of canon atla, aside from my criticisms of the orientalism woven into the show's fabric, its pattern of telling not showing, the tumor-like presence of filler episodes that don't do enough as character studies or dynamic studies (mostly in book 3; in book 1 i'm more forgiving of these since atla was still finding its groove), and my issues with zuko's redemption arc not challenging his political beliefs in a meaningful way, the thing that i would consider its biggest failure writing-wise is the fact that iroh is not intentionally portrayed as a morally gray character.

the thing about iroh is that he is a longtime war criminal. they try to soft retcon some of that in book 3 by making his nickname "the dragon of the west" about him pretending to have hunted the dragons into extinction and by making him a part of the white lotus, but this to me is not only grievously boring but also a waste of his character.

i understand why the idea of iroh as little more than zuko's loving, wise, and kooky uncle makes people happy. it means zuko gets to have a father figure who loves him unconditionally and makes him feel safe. that's a lovely concept! but not a very interesting one in terms of the narrative, nor is it one congruent with iroh's initial characterization.

think of the absolute contempt and terror he struck into those earthbenders who tried to arrest him in book 1. think of the fact that he besieged ba sing se for 600 days straight well into his adulthood (his age is unclear, but i'd presume he's somewhere in his mid to late 50s throughout atla, so he would at youngest in his 40s when he lead the siege of ba sing se). think of the fact that iroh only changed his mind about his very active part in the war as a grown man once his son was killed. think of the fact that iroh spent 3 years with zuko in exile without ever once actively making a real effort to help zuko unlearn the fire nation propaganda he was indoctrinated with from birth or to truly help him understand that ozai abused him. think of the fact that the white lotus didn't really do much of anything throughout the war to end it.

what picture do these facts paint? is it really that of a reformed war criminal? no, not really.

iroh loves zuko unconditionally. he is patient and kind and loving with zuko. i don't think there's much, if any, room to argue with that. i am not denying that to zuko, iroh is a loving, wise, and kooky uncle.

however, i am saying that iroh is multifaceted. he is zuko's loving, wise, and kooky uncle, and he is also a war criminal who, despite the show telling us has reformed his ways, is not shown to have done so in any meaningful way. he does not do much to help zuko to unlearn imperialist propaganda, does not do much to discourage zuko from trying to capture the avatar, and does not do much at all to end the war.

this makes for an incredibly interesting and dynamic character! this is a character who believes that his personal kindness absolves him of his heinous political misdeeds. that is why he does not do anything meaningful to challenge imperialism where he sees it. that is why he is also a kind, loving man. he's hugely flawed, but he also has virtues that make you want him to overcome his flaws! there is so much room for him to develop whether it's negatively or positively, and there is so much that can be done with the relationships he has, especially his relationship with zuko! furthermore, this is the summation of what the canon material overall most strongly presents us with.

but it's not how the narrative wants us to view iroh, so it's not how the narrative treats him.

instead, we are told that iroh is a reformed war criminal (and later even the notion that he was in the wrong for his military service to the fire nation is soft retconned) who is now nothing but a loving and supportive uncle to zuko. he's unfailingly kind to both zuko and the gaang, ty lee lets slip that she actually rather likes him despite azula's contempt of him to show us that ty lee is an antivillain who will be redeemed (despite her political beliefs never being actually challenged in a meaningful way), and really the only people iroh is unkind to or who dislike him are azula and ozai to highlight to the audience that they are villains.

this makes for an incredibly static character who essentially only exists to love zuko and act as his moral tether despite the fact that iroh never actually challenges zuko's political beliefs. iroh does not need to grow or develop within the narrative atla tells us exists. he has already done his self-reflection and repented for his behavior. he is a figure of moral authority. while this makes him feel safe and good to viewers who accept what atla tells them without question, in addition to not aligning with what's actually shown, it also makes him insanely bland from a narrative perspective.

but what if atla intentionally portrayed him as morally gray? what if they leaned into his shortcomings?

here's the thing about if iroh is intentionally portrayed as morally gray: zuko's redemption arc improves drastically, and azula's is given a much better opportunity to begin.

hear me out. if iroh is morally gray, then he is not solely there to show zuko what real, unconditional love looks like so that zuko can replace his abusive father with a loving father figure, giving him the strength to do the right thing and join the gaang. i'm not saying iroh no longer serves this function in the narrative; i'm saying that now that iroh does this, and his failure to meaningfully repent for his war crimes and to challenge imperialism creates conflict with zuko. you see, if iroh is morally gray, then his failure to challenge zuko's political beliefs (i.e. imperialism is good) is something that zuko is forced to reckon with throughout his redemption arc.

this would mean that zuko is finally actually challenged in his political beliefs as opposed to simply accepting that people are afraid of him because he is a destructive firebender/the prince and thus representative of the harm they have endured throughout the war. furthermore, it means that zuko has to go against a father figure who has treated him well, so his redemption is no longer a matter rooted in kindness but in moral conviction. zuko doesn't have to lose his love for iroh to do this; in fact, that would be a very boring way to portray this. it is far more interesting if zuko has the internal conflict of both loving his uncle and condemning him politically as he struggles to do the right thing in spite of that love.

the idea of zuko managing to grow beyond iroh and do the right thing even though it is hard, even though it means not only going against ozai's malice but also iroh's complicty, is one that would round zuko's arc out better.

it's also one that would open up the gates for an azula redemption arc a lot more than what canon does (although canon azula is still redeemable).

if zuko outgrows iroh enough to challenge his inaction, then he has outgrown iroh enough to start to really see his flaws.

one of zuko's main flaws in canon is that he has a very black and white way of thinking. this is a hugely defining flaw for him. it's why he struggled to accept that ozai abused him, why he struggled to see that his pursuit of the avatar and thus the war as a whole was wrong, why he got physically ill when he was confronted with the fact that he was harming people, etc.

but if zuko starts to see that iroh's inaction as a flaw despite the fact that iroh loves him so sincerely and is so kind to most everyone, then he can start to break this black and white thinking. like ozai, iroh is no longer on a pedestal in zuko's mind. this would lead to the unearthing of more of iroh's flaws.

in conjunction with the fact that zuko has now seen proof of azula's pain (her psychotic break in the last agni kai), this means that zuko can start to place blame where it's due with people over her pain.

i am under no delusions about the state of zuko's relationship with azula in canon. i've expanded on my thoughts about the love between them here if you'd like to see them, but i can sum it up as so: while azula cares about zuko in her own deeply screwed up way, zuko doesn't really care about azula because he is shortsighted and struggles to empathize with her or even see a need to.

however, seeing proof that azula has been harmed too means that zuko would finally see a reason she is worthy of his empathy. the first, most obvious, and easiest to identify (for zuko) perpetrator is, of course, ozai. like with the war, ozai is clearly malicious. now that zuko has admitted and accepted that his father was abusive to him, it is much easier for him to admit that their father is responsible for azula's pain too. this much i believe is likely in canon as well.

the next person for zuko to look to, which can only happen if zuko has opened his eyes, is iroh. like with the war post 600 day siege, iroh was not malicious in his treatment of azula, but he was still complicit. iroh may not have abused azula, but he did neglect her entirely. he did not give her a chance to ever be anything but what ozai told her she should be. he did not show her love and compassion the way he did zuko. furthermore, he not only failed to encourage zuko to ever try doing so, he actively discouraged him from attempting to.

to be clear: i don't think zuko should be a mentor figure to azula during her redemption. like azula, he's just a kid. he's still growing and learning himself. he also doesn't really understand her at all, even if he has realized that she was hurt too. he doesn't understand how she was, and he's going to have to spend a lot of time reconciling the way their father's abuse colored his perception of her with how she actually is. furthermore, their relationship is complicated and full of pain for them both, so relying too heavily on it to help azula recover and redeem herself would end badly if we're being realistic.

but zuko seeing that azula was abused by their father and seeing that their uncle's failure to ever give her a chance to understand real love is crucial to him realizing that the asylum is not somewhere that gives her a real shot at recovery and redemption.

whether or not azula takes that shot when it's given to her is a more complicated story that would involve both zuko and azula having to reflect more wholly and honestly on ursa than i think either of them ever have before as well as some likely very painful conversations challenging the way she, like all other fire nation citizens, was indoctrinated, but do you see how interesting treating iroh as the morally gray character he is could be?

even if you don't want to see a redeemed azula (i personally do, but the possibility of her rejecting the idea of redemption is also quite fascinating and tragic in this context), zuko's arc and the commentary made about redemption and second chances overall are made so much more interesting and nuanced by this simple choice.

[piratecaptainscaptainpirates]

Awright I'm gonna get my take in on the current round of CJ discourse, because I do think I have a couple things to add! I'll be super clear upfront that I don't really care very strongly about Jack in any direction, he's a convenient character from Ed's past but that's about as far as I think about him.

So, Jack is the only character who we explicitly know has known Ed since he was very young, and the only one confirmed to be with him back in the Hornigold days. It's for this reason alone that I tend to take the information he tells us about Ed at face value - not because I think he's an honest character, but because he's the only window we're provided into that time of Ed's life. We can assume Jack also got into piracy young and he's been through the exact same grinder as Ed; this is one of the reasons that Ed takes it so hard when Stede kicks Jack off the ship. He feels like Jack and himself are the same genre of person - if Stede doesn't like Jack, then he'll realize soon he doesn't like Ed, either.

If he and Ed have had a sexual relationship in the past, I think that's so much more interesting than assuming Jack is lying. Ed and Jack very explicitly are not friends. Jack talks about his "dalliances" with Ed so dismissively. I think it's much more interesting to look at this with the takeaway that Ed's past sexual relationships have been emotionally unfulfilling and do not allow him to be vulnerable because that informs our understanding of Ed later (for example, that can be a fun wrinkle into how Ed brings up the satisfying, intimate sex he had with Stede during his panic in s2e7).

Another function Jack serves is he pushes the atmosphere on the Revenge closer to what it would be on a typical pirate ship. He's constantly making cracks at the crew failing to act like "real pirates," making Stede feel left out for not enjoying such rowdy, dangerous games. This is very useful because it cultivates an atmosphere designed to drive a wedge between Ed and Stede. For Ed, these games are nostalgic. When Jack makes him uncomfortable, it's quickly followed by Jack suggesting another game. When Ed tries to apologize for one of their activities hurting Stede's feelings, or when he tries to encourage Stede to join in, Jack is there to distract Ed and make him feel, in turn, that Stede isn't just rejecting the games, he's rejecting Ed.

It highlights one thing we know about Ed: he's very, very good at conforming to what's expected of him in any given situation. He can be a people pleaser, and he very obviously just wants Stede and Jack to get along and feels stuck in the middle. I'm not saying he doesn't hurt Stede in this episode, but I am saying that when Jack is creating an atmosphere that feels like a more "typical" pirate ship, and Ed leans into the behavior that he feels is expected of him, it leaves him easily confused and upset when Stede obviously isn't enjoying it. We see unusual lack of regard for others from Ed in this episode (like him shouting "that's what you fuckin' get!" at the Swede after the Swede gets hurt), and it stands out because it's not how Ed normally acts, only adding to the guilt Ed's going to feel that makes him leave with Jack.

Neither Ed nor Stede are trying to hurt each other in this episode. Ed is falling back on old behaviors, and when Stede says he doesn't like it, the fact that he still sees Jack as being so similar to him makes him take it as a personal rejection. I don't think Ed's intentionally trying to make Stede feel singled out or bullied, and it's not Stede's fault he's not enjoying what's going on, but Jack is a very, VERY good manipulator and he's set up the perfect situation to make both of them feel wrongfooted with each other. He's not just manipulating the two of them, he's orchestrating the entire vibe of the ship to make Stede feel left out and make Ed blame himself when things go too far.