#as potentially one of these might end up being put with the story itself

[allisonreader]

Time for a poll!

I don't currently have a story blurb for the total of Tales Of A Frozen Sailor, so I wrote up four of them to choose from.

1🌷

A letter in a bottle. A sailor frozen at the bottom of the ocean where it should be an impossibility. All tied to one of the most famous shipwrecks of all time, and one family's continued pain finally gets some closure.

2🌹

Jesse Hudson was an Able Seaman who died during the sinking of the Titanic. Jesse's family always struggled with the loss of their family member. Then one day a message in a bottle found amongst the Titanic's wreckage brings forth all sorts of revelations to light about what happened to the sailor.

3🪻

Sometimes there are events that can't be explained by science. Finding a message in a bottle with it's writer frozen nearby was one of them. Leaving one family's questions about what happened to their missing sailor answered, but has unexpected trials that come with those answered questions.

4🌺

There was always a slight controversy about what happened to the sailor Jesse Hudson on the Titanic. Common wisdom said that he was nothing more than one of the many unfortunate casualties of the sinking. His close friend and would have been brother-in-law; John Winters, begged to differ. Years after the sinking and John's death, a letter and more surprisingly a frozen body just might prove John Winters' suspicions that his friend's supposed death was not as innocent as just being another victim of the wreck and not enough lifeboats.

[jozor-johai]

This is just a short note I will expand on elsewhere, but GRRM has this somewhat infamous quote about LOTR, about what to do with the orcs after the story ends. This is about rulership—what happens after the conquest?

Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

Part of what I love to death about ASOIAF is that it seems fundamentally more interested in these questions than the excitement of the conquest itself.

I see this quote brought up about the Others every once in a while, but I also think that we might be seeing one iteration of this idea with Dany in Meereen and the children of the slavers:

“The Sons of the Harpy are laughing in their pyramids,” Skahaz said, just this morning. “What good are hostages if you will not take their heads?” In his eyes, she was only a weak woman. Hazzea was enough. What good is peace if it must be purchased with the blood of little children? “These murders are not their doing,” Dany told the Green Grace, feebly. “I am no butcher queen.” (ADWD Dany IV)

There are obvious differences—for a start, humans have the potential to grow up to be anything, rather than the known entity of the inherent evil when it comes to orcs.

In an ASOIAF-relevant context, though, the question is similar: you won, do you eradicate your enemies? Their remaining families? What if it looks like a direct path to peace for those you were fighting for? “What good is peace if it must be purchased with the blood of little children?”

Considering that slavery is some of the clearest evil we’ve seen in the books thus far, I think this is one way GRRM is be bringing his thoughts on fantasy rulership to a more human context in ASOIAF.

The issue of letting the children live (or not) also makes for another very interesting parallel between Dany and Robert Baratheon, who is another key figure in ASOIAF’s exploration for how one rules after the battle has been won. Barristan makes the connection nearly explicitly for the reader, standing up for Ned’s name:

“Your Grace,” said Selmy, “Eddard Stark played a part in your father’s fall, but he bore you no ill will. When the eunuch Varys told us that you were with child, Robert wanted you killed, but Lord Stark spoke against it. Rather than countenance the murder of children, he told Robert to find himself another Hand.” (ADWD Dany II)

Robert was faced with the same choice and, over the course of his reign, has been given two different takes, one to start his reign and one at the end of it. Robert’s peace was bought with the blood of Rhaegar’s children, the young Aegon and Rhaenys, delivered—albeit unsolicited—by the Lannisters, to cement Robert’s legitimacy and their own stake in his rule. At the end of his reign, Robert is faced with the premise of a new Targaryen baby being born and Ned offers an contrary opinion much like Dany’s own (in spirit if not in allegiance):

“Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Aerys Targaryen for, if not to put an end to the murder of children?”

There’s plenty more to be said, but I just want to point out this angle for interpreting the GRRM LOTR quote. For one, sometimes people take issue with how literally GRRM himself is enacting his criticisms (saying things like, 'we never see Robert's tax policy either')—but this is a great example of how GRRM can raise a criticism that fits for a different series and make it work within his own world by adjusting the circumstances.

Also, I think that for discussions that attempt to predict where the story will go from here based on comments like this from GRRM, it’s important to see where GRRM is already exploring these ideas. In ASOIAF, this sort of application doesn’t require this idea to be explored with some kind of similarly-undying evil like the orcs or like Sauron, GRRM is applying these ideas to much more human evils, like slavery, and much more human applications, like any kind of military victory.

[directdogman]

HELLo . i . i apologize for asking a billionth question BUT considering as the mingus plush is coming soon i thought it would be a LOVELY time to ask about this considering as it IS mingus related; on her profile thingie, it states that mingus was groomed from a young age. (yeowch!) will we ever get any more elaboration on this, like on her backstory / her father whatsoever? theres . a lot to unpack with that single thing itself and im currently in the trenches of the mayor mingus (or michelle if your fancy) brainrot and would love to hear more about this considering it is QUITE depressing with how bad it could be . i fear i may have worded this wrong but uhm ya..

Groomed in this context means basically forced towards success, not the other meaning.

I've talked about it a lil elsewhere. Basically, her dad (Hannibal Crown) was kind of the proto her. Failed politician who tried to run on name recognition and failed. He instilled Mingus with a lot of inner turmoil/insecurity and forced her to study hard and basically not have a social life, after his political ambitions fell through. He wasn't very smart and couldn't really maneuver. Had no good ideas of his own and botched every job he was given in one way or another. Due to him being raised with an absent father figure and by a traumatized mother, he transferred and worsened the negative aspects of how he was raised to his daughter and showed her no love or affection.

He harshly corrected his daughter on her posture, how she spoke (this is why Mingus speaks somewhat formally to this day), pushed her into every extracurricular he could and basically just negatively compared her in every way to her grandfather, causing her to both internalize his vision of Crown and also develop a deep yearning for him to come back - so he could show her the love that she never got from her dad. Mingus truly despised him and by the end, a part of her relentless pursuit of success was to spite him, to prove to herself (and the world) that she was better than he ever was.

It says a lot that she even abandoned the name he gave her for the name that her paw paw gave his CAT, after all.

Mingus ironically wound up becoming the person her dad wanted her to be and achieved something he never was able to through his failed campaigns - becoming the MAYOR of Dialtown and refilling her paw paw's old position. But of course, enough is never enough. That inner well of insecurity is deep within her and she puts up walls because she was trained to understand that to show vulnerability is to appear weak.

Mingus' last conversation with her dad would make a REALLY good short story too, actually. I'll put that on the list of potential short story ideas for after Roger's route releases! Might be insightful.

[dailyadventureprompts]

Villain: Laormoch, Archfey of the Wild Unknown

Embodying the primal awe and terror of those places beyond the edge of the map, this ancient spirit of the land exists to test and torment those who stray too far from the safety of the familiar.

Though the old stories call him the" thane of the faroff" or an "invisible giant as big as the sky", it is hard to put Laormoch's physicality and the fear it evokes into words: How do you describe being lorded over by ancient trees, or the scornful glare of unfamiliar stars? His shape is only ever suggested by how it bends the natural world, but he is always distant, though always so immense that it feels like he may reach out and crush the viewer.

Adventure Hooks

The party stumble into a village to find its inhabitants struggling to recover after a disastrous hunt. Some wretched beast tore through some weeks ago and was only dispatched with great effort. It was a cause for celebration, at least until the thing was seen stalking in the woods, reading for another attack. To prevent it from assailing their walls and destroying their homes the village's best hunter leads the village's strongest on a sortie, downing the beast only after injuring many and losing a few. This has happened three times so far and the village's defenders are wearing thin. Perhaps the party could lend their aid once the beast is spotted again, and perhaps spend the intervening time trying to find its obviously supernatural origins.

Almost inconsolable, a great lord calls for the party's aid in rescuing his son and heir, who he claims was stolen by the sky itself: snatched out of his tower window by a great hand and carried off into the clouds. The servants and courtiers are skeptical, everyone knows the lord was so protective of his son he barely let the boy leave his rooms, let alone the castle, and it's likely the lad finally managed some means of escape. While they're considering exactly how to search for the lad the party will be approached by the Lord's bastard daughter, she was denied her inheritance by her father's traditionalism, and sees the opportunity to have herself recognized if the true born heir is never found. She'll ask that even if the party does find her younger brother, they either help him escape or leave him where he is, as it would be better for the both of him if he doesn't return to the castle.

Backstory:

Seeking to prove herself against a boastful rival, a hunter ventured far from her village into the deep wilderness, where she found and slew an elk of ethereal beauty, eating its flesh to sustain herself and taking its antlers as her trophy. Though she returned in glory, the beast had been marked by the Thane of the Faroff, who has raised its butchered body as a reverent and gifted it bloodthirsting branches to replace what was taken. The revenant won't stop until it's killed the hunter and torn her body to shreds, which will likely be sometime after she's gotten a good portion of the other villagers killed because she's too good at hunting and too stuborn to die without a fight. The revenant has more than one trick though, the branches animating its body bear seedpods which it scatters as it dies or gores others to death. These seeds eventually grow into twigblights, which are slowly massing in the forest waiting to overwhelm the village's defenders and open the gate for the revenant's final rampage.

Wishing more than anything to get away from the suffocating confines of his home, the young heir has found himself on the wrong end of a fairy bargin. Whisked off by Laormoch to his castle beyond the horizon, the boy has been forced to serve as the archfey's cupbearer as repayment for his captor's "kindness". The party will need to dig deep into the local folklore to figure out how and why the sky might snatch up a forlorn youth, potentially missing him entirely until they run into him while visiting the feywild for a completely different adventure.

Artsource

[panlight]

The discussions around Bella's choice to become a vampire are always so interesting to me, as it's usually centered around how she should have the agency to live and choose the life she wants for herself and like, of course.

But . . . the life she is choosing is vampirism. It's not about whether she's going to college or not, getting married or not, having children or not. She's actively choosing to become a supernatural creature whose intended prey is human beings. Sure, she ends up being instantly amazing at NOT killing people, but she had no way to know that. Statistically, the odds were not in her favor. This choice she is making was potentially putting humans at risk for eternity. That, to my mind, removes it from being a morally neutral decision about living the best life for herself.

Even the narrative itself doesn't give a whole lot of weight to the morality/ethics of making this choice. It's much more about the things Bella will give up (most of which she doesn't even end up having to give up, although she didn't know that), and a little about how upset it would make Charlie for her to disappear. Bella approaches the idea that she might kill people with humor, ("I guess I could throw in a few extra homicides, if it makes Jasper happy. Why not?" and "does this screw my total?") which could very well be a coping mechanism. But you never really feel the WEIGHT of it; it's like since SM knew Bella was going to be a perfect vampire it wasn't really worth wringing one's hands about. Even Edward is more worried about Bella's soul and whether she will be unhappy as a vampire like Rosalie, and not like, "what if you become a ravenous killing machine?" And maybe it wouldn't matter that much if Bella were presented as something other than this uncommonly selfless and Good person, but since she is, you'd think "oh God what if I accidentally murder Charlie or Mike or Jessica?" would keep her up at night. But she just trusts that Edward/the Cullens will stop her from eating people and that's kind of the end of it.

And AGAIN, yes I know it's really a romance and it was telegraphed pretty strongly that Bella wasn't going to become a people-eating menace and this is no doubt just me coming at everything from the Vampire Story angle again but, IDK. Always feels weird to me when potential future murders aren't a factor when discussing Bella's choices, that it's just treated as choosing any other life path. Then again, her romance with Edward has a body count even before she becomes a vampire, so what's a few more?

[flamedraco]

TNT Duo Halloween Bingo

I want to host a TNT Duo fic/art prompt event! Starting from today (October 1) to the end of October 31st!

The prompts are as follows: Shadows Vampires Costume Party Trick or Treat Ghost Demon Witch Folklore Scary Movie Possession Graveyard Zombie Werewolf Full Moon Blood Serial Killer Masquerade Haunted House Fae Haunted Forest Cursed Mirror Painting Familiar

And here are some BONUS PROMPTS (these are just for fun and a bit more detailed than the previous ones): Horror of a Popular Fandom AU: This prompt is when you take an AU that's popular in fandom culture, and you twist it into something horror based. For example, I plan on doing a horror version of a Hannhaki AU. But you can make horror versions of any AU if you try hard enough. Coffee Shop, Flower Shop, Canon Divergence. If the AU is popular and widespread across fandoms as a whole, it can count. Go wild with this one.

Sci-Fi Horror: This one is pretty simple, there is a lot of potential for horror stories when it comes to Sci-Fi elements. Whether you're going with something FNAF inspired or tackling the fear of the unknown with space, there are options.

The Deep Blue Sea: The ocean is a horrifying place and there's a lot of potential for scary spooky shit to happen miles under the surface of the water. This prompt can just be anything involving underwater horror, whether that be ancient eldritch magic and lost cities, or just something large and terrifying that a human can't possibly comprehend in its entirety.

Eldritch: Honestly surprised I didn't think of this when I was coming up with the prompts for the original Bingo sheet itself. This one is very simple, general eldritch horror in whatever form you as a writer or artist or whatever else sees fit. Admittedly there's a lot of room for eldritch shenanigans right there on the board, but consider this a little extra for any creatives who might want a bit more freedom on how and why something is eldritch.

This concludes the bonus prompts.

I meant to post about this event earlier but didn't have the bingo sheet ready until today (thank you Boo from my Discord server who put it together!)

I would like to stress that this is an event for c!TNT Duo, as I do not support William Gold in any way shape or form. I just love the characters and love Halloween so I figured it would be a fun project to work on throughout October.

There's no pressure to participate, nor any real rules other than it being strictly for the characters. Tag your fics and art with "TNT Duo Halloween Bingo". And that you, obviously, cannot have a fanwork count for multiple bingo squares. If it uses two or three of those concepts it can only count for one. Of course, keeping all of them together in a oneshot book or art book or whatever is acceptable, just don't use one fanwork to count for multiple prompts.

There is no prize, this is just meant to be a silly fun thing for anyone who might want some Halloween inspiration for the characters.

Please enjoy!

-Flame Draco

[anthurak]

So I think we all understand at this point that much of the Fairy Tales of Remnant and various other in-universe folktales and legends that have been told or otherwise mentioned up to now are IMPORTANT. That these stories, particularly the ones that are given some kind of focus, are meant to relate to specific events or characters and generally foreshadow things that will happen or be revealed in the show. Whether in the direct sense of ‘this story is actually relating real events that are significant to characters’ like The Story of the Seasons to the Maidens and Oz, or in more indirect, symbolic fashion like Oscar and Ozpin idly discussing The Girl Who Fell Through the World in Volume 8.

Suffice to say, fairy tales in RWBY clearly MEAN something. Especially if a fairy tale is clearly being connected to a character or characters.

To that end, going forward I think we should really be looking at The Warrior in the Woods, and in-particular the animated short, as being narratively tied to Summer, Raven and Taiyang. And specifically meant to foreshadow what Taiyang’s relationship with Summer and Raven was REALLY like.

For one, the connection the animated short draws is not exactly subtle. The short is flat out framed as Tai reading the story to Ruby and Yang for bedtime, with the boy in the story looking like a young version of Tai while the titular Warrior looks literally like a combination of Summer and Raven. And to top it all off, the story even broadly reflects what we already know about the relationships of the three; with the young man losing the woman he so admired and loved just like Tai lost Summer and Raven. Again, the connections are not in ANY way subtle here.

So with that base established, what more can we potentially glean as foreshadowing here?

Well, as I’ve stated in previous posts, I think it is telling that while the Boy in the story did love the Warrior, it is ultimately a tragic, doomed love that was never meant to be.

And more than that, the story notably only gives us the perspective of the boy, and never the Warrior. And likewise, we never learn how the Warrior truly felt about the boy. She clearly cared about him, enough to consider him something of a friend, but did she feel about him like he felt about her? The story never makes this clear, and I think that in and of itself is rather telling: Despite the boy’s attempts to reach out to her, the Warrior maintains her distance. Whatever growing care or affection she might have felt for the boy, it clearly wasn’t nearly enough to get her to break her isolation or duty to safeguard the village in secret. While the boy may have loved the Warrior, it was a love that in all likelihood, could not and was not returned.

So when we apply this to Taiyang, Summer and Raven, a rather bleak picture emerges: That Tai’s relationships with Raven or Summer were NEVER going to work out. Or that neither Summer NOR Raven actually loved Tai in the same way he loved either of them.

And the thing is, this IS supported even by what little we have seen of Tai, Summer and Raven. Just like in the story, we have been told of Tai’s love for Summer and Raven, yet told precious little of how either of THEM felt about Tai. And what little we HAVE been told or shown has left it rather questionable how either of them cared for Tai.

Raven has made it clear that she cares little for Taiyang in the present, which really raises the question of how or if the two were ever in a relationship in the past. And while the existence of Yang might imply some kind of relationship, let’s also consider the possibility that Yang was actually an unplanned pregnancy. The result of a possible drunken, one-night-stand between Raven and Tai. Which would certainly put Raven’s reluctance to be a mother in a VERY different context.

Then we have Summer, and thanks to Ruby’s tree-vision, I think we can count her feelings for Taiyang as being at best ‘ambiguous’.

For one, as I’ve stated elsewhere, Summer’s scene with Taiyang is curiously lacking in especially overt romantic gestures. A lack of noticeable flirting or particularly romantic physical acts like a kiss. They do hug, but as I’ve said before, RWBY has used these close, intimate hugs just as much if not more often to convey platonic or familial affection. Note also that Taiyang is the one to clearly initiate the hug, not Summer

More than any of that, it’s clear that Summer is putting on an act for Tai in this scene. In the scene she is clearly pensive and uncertain and maybe even afraid, but the moment Tai walks in, Summer immediately adopts a mask of ‘everything is normal, don’t worry about anything’. Which calls into question how much of anything Summer does/says in this exchange is truly genuine, and how much is simply an act for Tai’s benefit.

Summer clearly does not trust Taiyang with the truth of what she is ACTUALLY doing. And the clear ease with which Summer assumes this mask implies that this is likely far from the first time Summer has done this.

Just compare Summer’s scene with Tai to both her previous scene with the sleeping Ruby and Yang, and her following scene with Raven; both showing Summer not putting on any kind of act for anyone else.

Most notably, despite whatever resentment she might feel towards Raven for leaving them (or perhaps just leaving her), Summer clearly trusts Raven, more than ANYONE, with helping her on this mission she considered so vitally important.

Summer certainly cared for Taiyang, that much is clear. Otherwise she wouldn’t put so much effort into reassuring him that everything was fine.

But did she love Tai in way that he loved her? Or was it simply a role she went along with for his, and possibly more-so Ruby’s and Yang’s benefit? Given the clear emotional mask and barrier we see her put up when around Tai, I would call the answer, at BEST, ambiguous.

Which all ties perfectly into what we see in The Warrior in the Woods.

The boy in the story, who is presented as looking just like Tai, loved a mysterious but noble warrior, who is presented as looking like Raven AND Summer. But the love the boy felt could not or was not returned and the warrior would instead vanish into the night. Just like Summer and Raven did.

Oh, and the ending of the story match-cutting a shot of the ‘cross between Summer and Raven’ Warrior to a shot of Ruby who likewise has a lot of visual similarities to Raven as well as Summer MIGHT be hinting at something too…

[sugarpasteltmnt]

What are some of your favorite character relationships/dynamics in TMNT, and why? Is there anything that you particularly like seeing explored with them in fan works (art, writing, comics, etc)?

oh wow!! what a fun ask!!

stashing this under a read-more because i really popped off LOL

My favorite relationships and dynamics??

I feel like i should preface this by admitting that Rise was actually my first real exposure to the TMNT franchise-- and after reading and watching some other iterations it became incredibly apparent how different Rise was in several aspects. And i loved it!!

but with TMNT as a whole, i really love the Leo and Raph dynamics across the TMNT universe (shocking i know lol). It's probably my favorite dynamic of the whole franchise lol. I love love love how they can clash against each other in dramatic ways. And yet, at the end of the day, they would lay down their lives for each other. It's so fun and heartwarming to see that across all the different TMNT iterations.

I also think how Splinter's relationship with the boys can drastically fluctuate between iterations is super interesting. Splinter is such a cool character, and playing with his relationship with the boys has such a crazy big impact on the story and vibe. My favorite Splinters are 2003 and Rise and those two are hilariously different. But something they share is their protectiveness of their families. Which is a dynamic some other iterations turn on its head! And I love that!

And April. GOD i love April so much. The concept of her character is a trope i love. A human who is not just a friend but family with non-humans??? I'm obsessed. And I love that each April of every iteration has her own level of unhinged-ness.

Honestly I could probably write a thesis on each character but I'll try to keep it short lol. But something I really love???

The TMNT franchise itself isn't afraid to experiment with its own iconic relationships or story beats.

It doesn't take itself too seriously while putting a lot of thought and care into the wild, different storylines or concepts. What I might think is an iconic relationship/dynamic in TMNT might be different than someone else's-- and that's fun! The level of flexibility and boldness for trying different things for dynamics and relationships is something I really adore about TMNT as a franchise.

There are tropes and dynamics that are totally my favorite. But I also love seeing those things experimented with!!! But I had to absolutely pick something, it would be all the dynamics seen in Rise. I just love it so much!!

And fan works??

as for what I like seeing being explored in fan works, i gotta say--

I LOVE IT ALL AHHHH!!!❤️💞💗💖💕❤️💞💗💖

TMNT is such a fun and unusual IP, and i totally enjoy seeing other fans going wild with their own creative ideas. I love seeing people pop off with whatever their hearts desire. Anything from the iconic tropes to the niche, hyper-specific concepts-- I love it all. Because there is so much to explore with these characters. And I adore seeing people having fun with their ideas. It's hard to answer what my 'favorite' things to see are because I'm greedy for ALL of it! Because seeing all the different experiments with my favorite dynamics and relationships is so incredibly refreshing and exciting!!

I love seeing people play with each brother's relationship with one another. I love seeing the different takes on Splinter and his role as a father figure (or lack of). I love seeing the potential early-days of Rise-April's relationship with the boys as kids. I love every possible take on every possible character. I will always be a sucker for the juicy story tropes. But I'm just as ravenous for the off-the-cuff twists and concepts. I love any and all of it. Because it's so fun to see what people can cook up-- especially when it's a setup that you never would've thought of before but gave you a new perspective!!!

Because at the end of the day, TMNT is-- frankly-- a silly franchise. And it knows it! But it's not afraid to put in the serious moments and emotions that make all the dynamics interesting. And it's not afraid to experiment with its own building blocks. And I love that fans aren't afraid to push the unexpected in fan works, or do a deeper dive of the dynamics and relationships we've seen in different iterations.

This turned more into a love letter for all TMNT and TMNT fans rather than what my favorite parts are, but it's still all true! I am constantly collecting my favorite dynamics and tropes and putting them in my mental shelf of favorite things. While there are classics I'll always love no matter what, some days the flavor changes!!! And I love that TMNT both as a franchise and as a fandom is so diverse when experimenting with these characters!!

So, in a way this is me saying keep having fun creating and experimenting--because not only does it make me happy, but I hope it makes you happy too 🩵

[thegummysharkbagsys]

Why I think Dr. Fizz cares more about other people's opinions than you might think ! : An Analysis

I think most people , considering how much of a minor character Fizz is , wouldn't notice how much he seems to try to fit in , so that's what this thread is for ! I'll start this off by heading back not to ep 5 , but to smth else :

Our first bit of evidence is this scene in Box's Exit Interview !

As you can see here , Fizz seems ashamed of his interest in DND . When questioned , he even lies and says that Box was the one who went on that ramble (while it was very clearly him) . DND is commonly labeled by the public eye as a "nerdy" interest that should be made fun of , which is likely how Fizz started to dislike this aspect of himself , even if it still spills out .

Alternatively , you could also interpret his story about losing a DND campaign and 'putting it behind him' as him potentially being ashamed and / or humiliated for disappointing people with his loss , becoming broken as a result , before 'putting it behind him' , but still being ashamed due to his past negative experiences , scared of making a fool of himself again .

Now , let's move on to our second piece of evidence !

In "A Jury of Your Fears" and "You Can't Do This Forever" , we can clearly see instances where he places the opinions of other people over his own judgement and morals , even if small .

Starting with "A Jury of Your Fears" , he very likely was manipulated in some way to join the Committee , which is especially shown in the scene below !

In this scene , Dr. Fizz attempts to stand for his own opinions and morals , stating how hurting Candle would be against his oath as a doctor . However , upon being threatened by Walkie Talkie , he takes her side , following her orders to attack Candle .

This shows how easily swayed / manipulated he can be , which likely could be influenced by his wish to 'fit in' or follow the others around him .

This case especially stands true in the next episode , specifically , with these scenes :

Once again , we notice the pattern of Fizz speaking up for his own morals , only to change his mind and agree with literally MURDERING Mephone4 due to the opinions of the other members around him .

Of course , it seems likely he changed his vote to not melt Mephone4 around the end (at least , based on who I knew voted for melt and who didn't) , but it's possible he could have been swayed off-screen before casting his vote . Though , this is just speculation . Either way , the main point still stands .

Finally , we move on to what I think is the biggest piece of evidence in the whole thread .

[SPOILERS FOR II18 . READ AT YOUR OWN RISK .]

Someone on Twitter had recently asked Brian how Dr. Fizz communicated with Box's corpse , considering she was dead , and he clearly had to have noticed her lack of pulse when evaluating her . Brian responded with this :

This could potentially imply that Fizz KNEW about Box's state as a corpse , but gaslit himself into thinking there was a logical explanation behind it to not seem crazy to the others and of course , to fit in . Which , of course , has interesting implications in itself , especially when merged with the past pieces of evidence .

Compiling all of this together, Fizz seems to care a lot about fitting in , not wanting to seem weird or even crazy to the people around him . Because of this , when he's faced with conflict , he tends to ignore his better judgement , and , in some cases , tries to pretty much gaslight himself into thinking whatever belief he's faced with , even if nonsensical , makes sense . All so he can just fit in with society . And I think that's really interesting , considering his lack of importance in the show . I really do hope we get to see more of him and (potentially) more about this side of him ! :]

Anyway , that's gonna be all from me ! Tysm for reading this long post n ur more than encouraged to add on w/ ur thoughts n comments or just anything I may have missed ! <3

[arcane-ish]

My worry is this, that the main difference between season 1 and season 2 is that in season 2 Arcane stopped being a tv show and its own thing and became very squarely "a League thing".

Now that isn't necessarily an all bad thing. I mean, League is popular for a reason. There are aspects of League that are fun and creative. And I could picture people who come from League being happy with all the "He said the thing" and shoutouts to all the things they care about.

But to me it feels like season 1 was approached as a way to stand on its own and sell itself on its own and be a story about the characters that you try to sell from scratch.

Whole season 2 feels like they might be cramming all the League stuff into Arcane all of a sudden. And with "League stuff" I mean structural things like:

rush characters to get them into a fighting/champion position (Mel)

rush champs to be their League selves

constantly give characters new looks because League funds itself via selling skins

remind people that there are other continents and potential future spin offs out there (Ambessa, Noxus, Black Rose)

Bring stupid void shit and larger than life threats rather than just very human can comparably low magic threats like Silco because that's how League does a lot of its storytelling

bring up that League skins often also mean parallel universes (academy Ekko)

Like I can imagine that some people are genuinely into it. And some things like new looks, skin universes and maybe even void shit and more continents is fun for people.

I just think it's a huge break from how season 1 was told. And there's still some good character writing and some good theming to tie it together a bit. So it's not like the old values are gone just because all these new values and priorities are suddenly swaming the show.

In the end I've always said that League of Legends is the most like a comic book company with the whole so many "lead" characters with their own backstories and power sets, parallel universes, shifting canons etc.

And Arcane just remind me a lot about what I hate about a lot of comic book media when they leave the whole "this is small story about a baby from space being found by a couple in Kansas, growing up with powers and trying to get the hot city chick to like him" invariably needs to get bigger and bigger threats and suddenly we are on "we now are fighting a galaxy eating cloud, now wait, we are not just fighting to preserve one universe from going kaput, now you have to save all the multiverses".

Ceterum Censeo: I hate Viktor and Jayce particularly for brining all the spacey trippy void shit to a show that previously was a lot more low magic and that had a lot more human and close to earth stakes before that.

(for what it's worth, I think the claims of Christian Linke about Arcane being only 2 seasons in his mind are believable. I full believe that the Jinx, Vi, Warwick, Silco and Cait stuff was always roughyl their plan. I just worry that either League came to them with lots of additional "omg, can you put this in too" requests or that they went overboard with the "omg, now I can put this in too because season 1 was successful" ideas)

[bonzos-number-1-fan]

What R# Means: The ABC's of Fear.

The grading system used by the OIAR is one of TMAGP's more central mysteries. The show is rife with administrative work that's obfuscated even to the employees that assign each case's rating.

I have my own theory about DPHW that I think is proving more and more likely each episode, but as of yet I don't think a comprehensive theory on CAT# or R# has been given. CAT# is still proving a hard to crack but I now think I can take a strong stab at the meaning behind R#.

Spoilers for TMAGP 1-7 below the cut.

For the people who aren't keeping close track of this I'll break down how those terms are used. Each incident the OIAR assesses is assigned a case number in the following format CAT#R#DPHW. CAT, short for Category, is assigned a value of 1, 2, 3, or any combination of those three digits (12, 13, etc.). R, short for Rank, are graded C, BC, B, AB, A, or S (potentially AS but it's not come up). For DPHW each letter is a category itself and replaced with a digit from 0-9 for its grading. So there are 6 separate statistics that the OIAR uses to assess each incident.

If I'm correct about DPHW it's a ranking based on the qualities the incident presents. That's obviously very valuable information. Because of how CAT# is formatted we know it's likely three non-mutually exclusive facets. I had some idea about what it could be but it's proving quite tricky to nail down.

However it's R# that is the topic of today's post and it's something I've had a few ideas on before. We know can assume from its formatting it's a linear scale. C is the "worst/weakest/etc." while S is the "best/strongest/etc.". Initially, I thought that R# was simply a straight forward ranking of potency or threat. Higher the rank, spookier the incident. Very early on that seemed like a strong idea. It was quickly disproven but I then had the idea that Rank was instead the scale of the effect. Higher the rank, wider the incident. Also quickly disproven.

Now I'm thinking it's graded on how hard it is to deny an incident's supernatural nature. Simply put, an outside observer can more readily find a believable rational explanation for an incident of lower rank than of higher rank. Either via their own conviction to believe the supernatural isn't real, or based on the story the OIAR cooks up to explain it.

For that to make sense it needs to tick two boxes. It needs to be able to be pre-assigned to an incident as all CAT#R#DPHW's seem to be, and it needs to be useful information to track. As they're operating under the assumption that CAT#R#DPHW's can be pre-assigned then they're operating under the assumption that each type of incident is relatively stable. Meaning that the likelihood that it can be rationally explained is also relatively stable. Tick 1. There is also a really strong reason for the OIAR to use this as a grade. They're the Office of Incident Assessment and Response, the Response Department might be dead but it was a part of the initial plan. Grading each incident on how likely they are to cause concern should the details go public is very useful for deciding how to approach any given case. Tick 2.

It being useful is all well and good but it does also need to have some evidence so let's look at our highest ranked incident to this point: CAT23RAB2155 - Transformation (Eye) -/- Trespass. A man grew eyes over his body. That's pretty tricky to explain away as a medical mystery. On the other end of the scale we've got CAT2RC1157 - Dolls (Watching), or CAT2RC3338 -Agglomeration (Miscellany) -/- Congregation†. Just a creepy doll and some crappy antiques. I think of all the incidents the one that's the least immediate fit is CAT3C7494 - Collection (Blood) -/- Musical. Most of that incident is very easy to slot in here. "It's just a violin that has sharp strings, so what?". But it's also a violin that made some people eat some other people. However, mass hysteria events do get reported every so often IRL and do have a very long history. So in the grand scheme of things I don't think the details of the event are necessarily all that outlandish. It's really in the realms of urban legend and witch hunts than it is definitive proof of the supernatural.

With all that out the way this is the broad strokes of how I could see this breaking down. C ranks are things you can entirely write off as urban legends, freak accidents, and stress. Potentially things that might not need any covering up at all. I think the majority of events people could entirely say didn't happen will end up in C. "Of course the doll wasn't watching you, dolls aren't alive". B ranks are things that are harder to entirely discount as things that happened but are themselves still relatively easy to excuse as mundane. "Sure, the circumstances of that blogger's disappearance are strange but people go missing all the time, doesn't mean a monster did it". We don't have any A ranks but given the AB rank we do have I'd say A's are things in which no rational explanation can account for it, and as such require more extensive covering up, if it indeed happened. "Okay, maybe the supernatural is real because people don't just grow eyes like that".

As I mentioned early, an S rank does exist. We've not seen this attributed to anything in the show yet and so it might prove to be a special case. However on Klaus' sheet‡ from the ARG it's attributed to an interesting incident. A CAT1RS[No DPHW] with the note Mr. B. And, well, if you know, you know.

From Klaus' sheet we also know that the higher ranked incidents happen less often than lower ones and that idea generally tracks with what we know of TMP and TMA. The supernatural tends to be something you can explain away. It often is explained away. Incredibly overt manifestations are a rarity.

This one will be a slow burn to see if it bears out. Much like with DPHW's it's only really interesting when things go against the theory. I'm not as certain on this one as I am the DPHW theory but I do think it's got legs with our current data.

† This did also feature people who seemed to erase their physical features from your memory after you interacted with them. This isn't something I mention in the theory because it's not taken into account by the header and case number. A major flaw in the OIAR's methodology here is that all incidents are only ever one thing. So the case number is based solely on the presence of lots of miscellaneous objects, rather than the mind-wiping people carrying them.

‡I have made an incident master doc here, containing all the current cases, their CAT#'s, R#'s, DPHW's, etc. It has about as much information on each as I think is reasonable, including who narrates it, a link to its episode, and any other relevant notes, as well as headers for incidents we didn't hear. Additionally it also contains the Klaus sheet (German and English) and links to it when an incident matches. It will be updated each episode after the episode is publicly available.

[thisoneblackjacket]

🎬 NOW IT'S TIME FOR...

Eddie's notes hour!

I just wanted to take a closer look into all of the notes that we see on Eddie's desk within the hidden video + some input/speculation on them

...

1. Starting with the gift list:

I went into it a bit in a previous post, but I think(?) I now have the full list down (w/some help from others from that post) :

Julie - Chimney Cozy

Frank - Bug Catching Net (?)

Wally - Apple

Howdy - Calculator

Poppy - Doilies (still unsure about that one)

Barnaby - Bones (?)

Sally - Mirror

I will say that these gifts seem very fitting for everyone, but between the few questions marks next to some of the gifts, along with Eddie's doubts about Julie's and Frank's gift in the vid:

Sounds like Eddie HIMSELF is unsure if these gifts will work. It has the same vibes as trying to shop for someone that you sort of know the interests of, but not much else

Which sort of amplifies that he isn't the closest to any of the neighbors (seemingly he only gets to interact with them when they need something from him), so this might play more into the theme of Eddie being alienated from the rest of the neighborhood

...

2. Moving on to the grocery list:

Okay so I'm still struggling w/a few words, but I think it goes as follows:

Grocery (I think?)

Envelopes

Pencil

Construction Paper

Paper {Lined} (I think?)

Eggs

Milk

I don't have too much to say here, but it is a bit interesting that Eddie has to buy supplies for his own business from Howdy. I always figured that another reason why Howdy disliked Eddie was because he might have sold his own paper/stationary items at the post office, hence competition, but maybe not

...

3. It's TIC TAC TOE time!! ❌⭕

Now I am not about to begin to try to count how many games he played through that you can see on the screen (you can't make me!)

BUT, given the scoreboard:

Eddie (his left, I'm guessing the ⭕s): 4...?

Eddie (his right, I'm guessing the ❌s): 14

That's at least 18 games by itself, can you imagine how many if you included the draws ?!

Poor Eddie...

But listen - I'll end this post with something that has been scratching at me - Tic Tac Toe as a potential symbol in the story

Now I don't know HOW significant Tic Tac Toe is to WH, but I think it is significant.

Does anyone remember this post back in October, during the Halloween update? The one where OP had put this one tic tac toe game over the map? (go check it out)

I really do think that's a solid lead towards something big, and it was actually one of the first things that popped in my head when thinking back to this.

But even if it turns out it isn't, Tic Tac Toe has been showing up from time to time via drawings/surroundings, which is already enough to at least consider it moving forward

So here, while it makes sense in context as to why Eddie is playing the game a bunch in the video (waiting around for someone to show up with nothing better to do), and all this can honestly be a stretch, but to have him specifically play THAT game, after its been shown to pop up that often...makes me suspicious for sure...

...

Either way, this has been...

Eddie's notes hour!

(seriously, I'm not good at making title names)

[xannador]

Would you ever write out what the alternate ending for Mostly (H)armless was, even if it’s too much to fully comic? I felt like my heart was torn out by the ending, even if the alternate ending is never realized I’d feel better knowing what else might have happened 😭

I have gotten this question a couple times now and wasn't sure if I should answer this. Because doing so would forever close the door on any alternate ending. But sadly I don't see myself drawing more HFR fancomics... so...

Up until page 41 the story more or less follows a set path. Or at least all roads would lead to page 41. After that I had a couple different scenarios and scenes that I could go for. The version that ended up being made was a mismatch of... basically all of the most horrific ones.

And here are the others:

Scenario 1: Almost got away

There was a version of the story in which Chai and 808 got separated again and Chai would end up on the ground floor rather than way up on the hanging platforms. And he'd lure V1-RS underneat one of those platforms and 808 would drop it right on top of the psycho robot, crushing it. This doesn't kill it but it would be stuck (and furious). And Chai and 808 had the freedom to just... walk away from it, while it's screaming bloody murder at them. However, one of its taunts would make Chai turn back; the one about him being nothing without Vandelay tech and he's lucky his traitor drone (808) saved his skin all this time. This would have pissed Chai off to the point of actually turning back to face V1-RS, wasting enough time that V1-RS frees itself. And this scenario would end tragically similar to the one we got: Chai beating V1-RS without any kind of technology but at the cost of his own life.

I didn't go with it because I didn't want to separate Chai and 808 twice in the span of a handful of pages.

Scenario 2: Only one has to die

In this scenario, V1-RS cutting the platform wires on page 46 actually results in the entire platform crashing to the ground. Chai managed to grab onto one of those Vandelay banners and although it rips it actually slows down his fall enough that he and 808 survive. But in this version the museum is also set ablaze.

Chai and 808 would use the smoke and debris (from Chai's fight at the start of the story) to hide from V1-RS while slowly trying to sneak away. A falling plaform would break a window and that would give them an escape route.

But just as they reach fresh air and can see the night sky, V1-RS would once again manipulate Chai into turning back. This time by saying it's going after the gang instead. Just like in the final story Chai realizes that if he wants to save his friends he isn't going to make it out himself. But this time 808 is still alive so he shoves her into a trash can against her will, apologises and disappears back into the fire.

Chai and 808 are into this adventure together so I felt that either both should live or neither. It became neither in the end.

Scenario 3: Xan cannot resist putting kaiju into everything

A different version of scenario 1. After getting crushed by a platform, V1-RS would have crawled out of its host body like one of those parasitic worms that brainwash insects (don't google that) and forced itself into one of the huge display robots. Then it would have ripped other giant robots apart and taken bits of them to enhance itself into something gigantic and monstrous. Chai and 808 would have taken that time to nope the hell out of the museum. They'd scare a few random civilians still out on the street with their unfortunate appearance and meet up with the gang who'd be glad, and horrified, to see them. The reunion would be cut short as an absolutely gigantic, multiheaded, many-legged robot chimera bigger than ZP-1500 bursts out of the museum.

A high octance chase scene (potentially inspired by godzilla 1998) between Roxanne's poor car and Chimera V1-RS and a climb to the top of Vandelay tower could have been next. And the only right way to end a monster like that would be to somehow skewer it on the old spectra tower.

This scenario would've been cool as shit and a spectacle of (literal) epic proportions.

It also doesn't fit the rest of the story at all. Maybe something like this could have worked had it been a robot kaiju story from the start, rather than a horror comic. Also beating the monster with team work was not the right way to end Mostly (h)Armless. Chai always had to beat V1-RS on his own. That is the point of this story.

Scenario 4: If only 808 hadn't broken

There was a way Chai could have beaten V1-RS without getting hurt (or at least not hurt as badly) if he had only been able to communicate with the rest of the gang. That way Peppermind could have figured out V1-RS obvious weakness... it's an AI. And an AI is only as scary as its database. if Chai had found a way to connect 808 to the old V1-RS computer, Peppermint would have been able to poison its database with random nonsense. She could really upload anything; useless trivia about dolphins, the entire anime bath scene wikia, SCR-UB poems, and all Chai would have to do is keep V1-RS busy and distracted until it was so poisoned it wouldn't be able to function anymore. Then it would be easy to finish off.

Although Chai would get help from Peppermint in this scenario rather than do it all on his own, I think this version of the story could still have worked better than the one I drew. Because Chai defeats V1-RS without his robot powers and while being technically on his own.

Perhaps had I taken more time to think the story over I may have gone with this last version. Although If I had been given time to reflect I would probably not have made a fan comic at all. The only reason Mostly (h)Armless exists is because I turned my brain on autopilot for 10 months.

It was a very weird time and the meme of it feeling like waking up from a year long dream-state wasn't entirely a joke.

So yeah, these are the scenarios I can remember. There were a couple of shorter scenes that got removed but story wise they don't add much.

[aioliravioli-69]

Detective Noir AU

Alright, this au has been sitting around, waiting for me to finish it but chances are, I never will :((

So instead, I'll just post what I have so far

This was inspired by that one comment on the au post the author made(at this point you could consider me a stalker for the amount of hours I've scrolled through her feed💀)

First things first, none other than our main character himself, Detective Hollow!

I made him the detective in this one mainly because I was basing it off of the theory that if there was no heroine the keyholder would simply become the hero instead(don't remember where I read this but I'm guessing it was the webtoon comment section).

I also my have just really wanted to draw him in an overcoat

gonna be honest, I did little to no research going into this AU, the thing I most tried to learn about was the femme fatale so I could get a good view on how to design Buddy

Speaking of the femme fatale:

Seems like someone got caught in the spotlight!

And before you ask, yes, those are pants. Weird ones, but pants nonetheless. I swear, I hate lighting when it's from the front. Frontal lighting can go fuck itself. Please ignore the little help lines I put in

Honestly, Buddy's outfit was probably the hardest part of this one. I wanted him to look slutty, but I didn't want to make it TOO slutty, but I feel like I may have added WAYY too many folds in his pantsuit and I kinda messed up on the overcoat lol. The diamond on his chest was inspired by the diamond on the villainess key more than anything and I tried to incorporate that into his gloves too.

Anyway, have some potential outfit sketches I made:

the two I thought might come off as too slutty and

the ultimate winner of the outfit ideas

As you can see the diamond chest window and fur coat were a mut in this outfit and I'm pretty happy with the end result

Y'all know how the femme fatale usually has to seduce the main character a.k.a. the detective?

Well, y'all know me so have an extra just for you <33

But I'm not done just yet!

Remember how I said that I made Chase the hero because of the lack of a heroine in the story? Well...

I did some more surface level research(and I mean very surface level) and decided to adapt the trope of the girl-next-door archetype for him!!

Don't think it suits him, since they usually just sit pretty and wait for the detective to notice them, but they do have badass roles once in a while and I live for those!!!

The one Chase has taken on doesn't though sadly :')

I decided to go with Charlie Hollow for this one because it sounded more like something the timid and 'pure'(yuck I know, but sadly film noir movies often prop up comparisons between the femme fatale and the girl-next-door, this being one of them) girl next door would have

Overall I tried to make this one as cutesy as possible because, why not lol

Lastly(I apologise, I made this in a rush because I was running out of motivation)

The distance between Buddy and the detective sure did close QUICK-

Originally I was planning on adding Deacon as a police officer and now that I think about it I could technically fit Prunella in here as well, but I just don't have any willpower left to keep this thing alive

My art blocks been acting up recently and I can't even pick up the pencil without immediately wanting to put it down :((

I wish I could have continued this and maybe I will someday, but until then this'll just stay in my drafts

[chaos-and-recover]

Hey, c'mere a minute. Listen to me. I know it's been a bit of a day what with the Sleep Token Instagram being wiped clean in the midst of all the doxxing bullshit going on, but I think we're maybe getting a little hysterical. There is so, so much evidence that wiping the Instagram is part of a calculated move to launch a new era, and not a signal that they're walking away. Let's lay it out.

II, III and IV revealed new looks at the Wembley show; Vessel didn't

They posted a link to Ascensionism on YouTube today, and while people are drawing a line between the doxxing and "you make me wish I could disappear" I would like to instead draw your attention to the line "You're gonna watch me ascend"

Sundowning, This Place Will Become Your Tomb and Take Me Back To Eden tell a story. They're a trilogy. The end of Euclid calls back to The Night Does Not Belong to God. It's full circle, end-of-an-era stuff. But if the end of the era was the band itself it would be absolute nonsense to put all that work into designing new aesthetics for 3/4 of the band for ONE SHOW.

The website is still up and the Twitter is still active. It's only Instagram that got cleared out, and even then the saved story highlights are all still there

As has certainly been pointed out by others this is not uncommon. Paramore has done this at leas twice. I feel like Hayley does it semi-regularly on her own account, as well as periodically just leaving social media in general. All members of AFI and their official account changed their profile images to just black ahead of the release of their 2017 album. It's a Thing.

Tour dates!! They still have tour dates. They're going to Australia with Bring Me The Horizon in April (Australia I am SEETHING WITH JEALOUSY). They have Radio City Music Hall, Red Rocks and Sonic Temple

This Tweet:

This now-deleted post from a radio station in Iowa:

This also-removed listing on Ticketmaster (screenshot taken today, Jan 16, 2024:

(The removal of these two items is NOT an indication that they've been cancelled but rather an indication that someone posted them too early)

Yeah, the doxxing sucks. It's got to be stressful for them. But there's also been radio silence from the band and their camp on it and I think that's absolutely the right call -- there are potential legal consequences and it very well could be something lawyers are dealing with. Remember that this is the music BUSINESS and they are not defenseless little meow meows in this. A line has been crossed, boundaries violated, that sucks, that's unforgivable, but I genuinely don't believe we're gonna see the end of the band over it. I mean they are WAY too committed to the bit to let this slow them down.

I think instead we are going to get a tour announcement, and I think we're going to get it as early as this week. Maybe early next week.

We might even get new music or a new reveal from Vessel between now and the Australia dates.

Now let my depressed ass go back to crying to Atlantic on repeat and let's all calm down.

[lyculuscaelus]

In general, the mythological picture Homer and other ancient writers were trying to provide us in their poems is quite different from each other in many aspects. One of which is the lore about Odysseus. For example, in a Homeric world, Odysseus’s family is a line of single sons, as Telemachus has pointed out in the Odyssey, book 16, line 117–120:

ὧδε γὰρ ἡμετέρην γενεὴν μούνωσε Κρονίων: μοῦνον Λαέρτην Ἀρκείσιος υἱὸν ἔτικτε, μοῦνον δ᾽ αὖτ᾽ Ὀδυσῆα πατὴρ τέκεν: αὐτὰρ Ὀδυσσεὺς μοῦνον ἔμ᾽ ἐν μεγάροισι τεκὼν λίπεν οὐδ᾽ ἀπόνητο. 120 The son of Cronus makes our family a line of single sons: Only one son—Laërtes, did Arceisius beget; Only one son—Odysseus, did his father (Laërtes) beget; then Odysseus, begetting Only one son—me, left me in his halls, and had no joy of me.

Also, it’s not just Telemachus using dramatic here and I stand by my point. Might rant about it at some point but for now, let’s just say the word μούνωσε (its 1st person present indicative form being μονόω) is extremely interesting here, and another thing to keep in mind is the use of Dios boulē in the Odyssey, which also deserves some ranting of its own.

Now, back to the topic. The choice of words here is presumably deliberate, as Homer is trying to establish his own version of the story and suppressing some other epichoric traditions. (Creative liberties is certainly not just a modern concept fellas but anyways) Therefore we have our so-called Homeric tradition, which is the result of the omission of a number of local traditions, plus his unique portrayal of characters as a treat. Keep in mind that this is not the only version of the story (but certainly the most intriguing and influential one), so you would notice something off almost immediately (say, Dictys Cretensis and the Telegony). Now, there is only one point I’d like to bring up:

Don’t pretend that those non-Homeric stories could still work well within the Homeric tradition; and don’t expect certain Homeric rules to apply to other non-Homeric lore.

Again, back to our example. The one-son-per-generation rule is most certainly Homeric and can only stay in a Homeric setting. You do not apply this to Theogony and certainly not the infamous Telegony. On the other hand, the Telegony is NOT a sequel to the Odyssey, but rather tells a different story which is set after the time of the Odyssey. That Odysseus seen in Proclus’s summary of this poem is certainly not the Odysseus we know of, and chances are that he was exile by his people while this is invalidated by the ending of book 24 of the Odyssey, and the oar quest might not even have happened in the Telegony.

Yes, I know that some may find the angst potential of Nausinous and Nausithous (this includes me) or the painful death of Odysseus (you lost me here) irresistible, but keep in mind that they’re in a different setting now, and the portrait of characters is likely different. But that doesn’t mean you can’t explore the story itself. In fact, it’s even more intriguing to see how our beloved Homeric characters would behave in these non-Homeric settings. Giving Odysseus a chance to be the father he never was is angsty as hell; putting Odysseus in Thesprotia after him facing family issues also brings the story itself to a new level (glances at Smitty 👀); etc. After all, one could even say they’re fanfic ideas set in different AUs, waiting to be explored by future writers…

So…yeah.