#as long as people acknowledge it’s incest I have no issue with the ship tbh

[worstloki]

Tbh I can’t stand the thorki ship, idk if it’s just that I cannot stand incest even in fiction or if it’s that thorki shippers often deny that it’s incest because “they’re not biologically related.” So??? They were raised as brothers, and as someone with quite a bit of adoptive family, I feel like saying Thorki is okay because “it’s not really incest” is saying that if you’re adopted you’re not really family. Anyways you do you, but could you tag it please?

I use #thorki and #thor/loki and don’t appreciate those arguments either for the same reason... I do however see it as a crack ship and find it extremely funny bc even if you go ‘god genes/family trees are different’ and ‘asgardian culture allows this’ you’re still stuck with the avengers standing right there going ????????!!!!???!?!????????????? Because...... Bro. You two are brothers right. Bro. What’s with the gazing into each other’s eyes?? Didn’t he go genocidal for a bit?? Thor???? Thor?!????

[insertdeeplyrics]

On the ending of Supernatural

Hi, I’ve never actually posted anything on Tumblr of my own creation (I mostly reblog stuff), but I’ve just seen the ending of Supernatural, and given that this is where I’ve been fed my SPN content, it felt right to share my thoughts here. I’m sure nobody is going to read this, but whatever, I just need to get this out of my chest. Sorry in advance if this is too long, but I have to type this out if I want to move on.

I still need to take some time to process everything that’s happened, because it is a lot. I did have my hopes up for the finale, thinking that Cas would at least show up, but like many of the fans, I was let down.

So I guess that would be the first issue I had with the episode. Regardless of what Dean felt towards Cas, if he reciprocated his feelings or not (which he totally did, I mean, we have all been watching the same show for 12 fucking years, and if you don’t believe me, there are plenty of metas that would support this statement), he still is his best friend and it doesn’t sit right with me the fact that he doesn’t even try to find a way to rescue Cas from the Empty. And okay, maybe he didn’t, make Cas got resurrected by Jack, then why the hell wasn’t he on the final episode? He was a pivotal character for the series, I mean, the proof is in the ratings: Season 7, when he was killed off to apparently never return, the ratings were at their lowest. The show may have started as just Dean and Sam, but over the years it became much bigger than them, and it is so disappointing that the show runners failed to acknowledge it. But I’ll get back to this point later.

Okay, I need to talk about Dean’s death, the only part of the episode that made me cry, because my poor baby had to suffer so much! Like, when he started saying that Sam never put up with John’s crap (which reinforces my headcanon that John was abusive towards the boys) and how much he admired him for it, my heart just shattered. I just love Dean Winchester so freaking much, and they did him so dirty... Don’t get me wrong, Jensen and Jared’s acting was 10/10, like, I thought I had a grip of myself and then Sam started crying and tears came back to my eyes. Nonetheless, I felt that the scene was so freaking long! I mean, Dean was dying, and he had time to make a 10 minutes-long speech! C’mon! Also, I get that Sam and Dean’s relationship is quite deep and strong and whatever, but I felt a bit unconformable watching it: it didn’t feel like a brotherly goodbye, more like a lover’s one. They were too touchy and intimate, and, overall, their relationship from this point on was coded as a romantic one, in my opinion. And Chuck, did I hate it! I have an older brother and I know what it is like to be close to your sibling and to love him more than anything else in the world, but the way they portrayed their relationship on this last episode felt incest-y, which makes me believe that this scene was originally written with another character in mind (cough CAS cough) or the writers don’t know the difference between romantic and brotherly love. To finish off, the way they killed off Dean??? I mean, I did expect Dean to die, but this was such a horrible and ridiculous way to go... I would have accepted it if he died actually fighting, but impaled??? After all he’s been through, after fighting so many demons, angels and deities, that’s how he dies??? That just felt cheap and rushed. Dean did not deserve that ending and I refuse to accept it. In fact, I refuse to acknowledge the existence of this whole fucking mess of an episode. Also, I just can’t believe that no one showed up to Dean’s funeral. I just can’t. I get that maybe it was difficult to bring in a lot of actors due to the pandemic, but they could have added them on post-production...

Next, we have Sam’s ending. He quits hunting and finally obtains his white-picket fence life. I did like the fact that he honored all of his friends and family that he lost along the way, especially Dean. Like, yes, if my brother died, I would like to keep a token (don’t know if that’s the actual word for it, my first language is not English), to have something with me that reminded me of him and to have him with me wherever I go. And I did like that he named his son Dean, in honor of his brother. However, we don’t know how he met his wife, we don’t even know who she is. They set up Sameileen for what?? Like, Sam and Eileen deserved better, tbh. And, again, even with Covid restrictions they could have done something to signal that Sam got married to Eileen, you don’t need the actor there. In fact, we never actually found out what happened to her, and just like I can’t believe that Dean didn’t even try to save Cas from the Empty, I can’t believe that Sam didn’t reach out to Eileen. Furthermore, the montage with his son felt cheap and a way to try to appeal to the audience’s emotions... (Btw, as a side note, the grey wig and the glasses, my god, they did Jared dirty 😂😂). But it wasn’t doing it for me, I didn’t care much for the kid, and while I do believe that was always going to be Sam’s ending, I didn’t like how it was executed.

And the worst part of it all: that suuuuuper long scene with Dean driving in Heaven, waiting for Sam. They could have used that time to show something more meaningful, even to develop a bit more Sam’s new life, how he adjusted to domesticity and fatherhood and all that crap. Or, I don’t know, A TEAM FREE WILL 2.0 REUNION??? And I guess this is my biggest issue with the whole episode. I get it, Sam and Dean are the central characters, the ones that started it all, but family don’t end with blood, and they were not the only ones who deserved a goodbye. They had formed so many bonds and friendships over the years, and to not have them address them on the final episode just feels infuriating. Especially Cas. His arc was not finished, he deserved to be on the finale. We never got Dean’s reaction to his confession, we don’t know how he felt about him, nor did Cas get to say goodbye to any other character. How did he get out of the Empty? What is he doing now? Is he still an angel? Also, he gave his life to save Dean, only for Dean to be killed not long after. My headcanon that is helping me cope with Dean’s death is thinking that he was so quick to accept his death because he was hoping to reunite in Heaven with Castiel. A girl can dream, ok??? But also, what about Jack? He is the new God, but I highly doubt it that he won’t drop by the Bunker from time to time, after all, Sam and Dean (AND CAS, ESPECIALLY CAS) raised him. And Charlie? Did she get back with Stevie? Did she and the boys go for drinks from time to time? And Jody? Donna? Claire? Sorry to be so repetitive, but I just can’t understand why the writers thought that these characters weren’t important enough to deserve a spot on the finale, and not just an off-hand mention (and not even all of them got that). Of course, the brothers are the main characters and their goodbye must be the longest and the most emotional of them all, but like I said before, the show stopped being just about the Winchesters on season 3, when Bobby was first introduced, maybe even 4, with Cas.

Overall, the finale left a lot of questions unanswered, most of them regarding secondary characters (but not less important for that!), completely destroyed Sam and Dean’s character development (Dean never got to be free, like he had been fighting for all season, probably all his life; Sam’s development is non-existing, as he ended up as he would’ve if he never had gotten on that hunting trip with Dean 15 years ago), and completely disregarded all the themes they had been setting up this season, probably on previous ones as well. It is sad knowing that the writers, either don’t know the show good enough to give it a proper goodbye, or they just didn’t care to do so. I don’t know who’s to blame here (definitely not the actors, though, probably someone higher up the chain), but I just know that I am so fucking disappointed. I expected more from the last episode of a 15-season TV show, one that has been part of my life for 7 years. I guess, that despite all of it, I can’t hate Supernatural. Maybe I was not a hardcore fan like some people on this site, but I did care for the characters and what happened to them. This is the show that introduced me to the world of shipping (Destiel will always hold a special place in my heart, it doesn’t matter how badly their relationship was treated, as well as the characters) and I got to discover one of my favorite characters, Dean Winchester. He is just such so complex, one that I relate to on so many levels, and his relationship with Cas has been the source of many short stories that I’ve never posted anywhere, but that have made me take up writing again. That’s the reason why I love the show so much, it has helped me tap into my creativeness and go back to writing, a passion of mine that I seem to have forgotten over the years. Anyways, maybe one day I’ll publish some of those stories, and maybe even write my own fix-it fanfic, but right now, I can’t deal with anything that has to do with the show, I am too hurt. Maybe once the five stages of grief are over, I might give it a try and read all of the amazing codas and fanfics that I’m sure will be posted here or on AO3. But for now, Supernatural is dead and gone, and I don’t want to talk nor think about it anymore. I’m done wasting my time here, because I feel like that’s what I’ve been doing this past 7 years after watching this crap of a finale.

To finish this long rant off, I just want to say thank you to some meta-writers, the true heroes of the fandom. Thanks to them, I carried on watching the show, because they made me have hope that things will get better. They are the ones that have made this experience worth something, and even though I’ve never spoken to any of them, I see you and I love you. Thanks for everything ❤. 

@tinkdw @charlie-minion @dotthings @heliodean @verobatto-angelxhunter @misha-moose-dean-burger-lover

[kuromichad]

another thing about what’s changed pretty drastically in fandom culture (tbh culture in general) since when i was a kid is like. so, after several years of Anti Culture honestly i dont even have it in me to care anymore to have like, constant paranoia that someone out there is thoughtcriming by shipping the wrong things or even making violent porn of them, nobody should be literally dwelling on these things constantly lmao the specter of the problematic shipper is so deeply unhealthy and an unwinnable battle. what i feel is the acute issue, the thing we’ve actually made a LOT of progress on, is ‘does anybody even acknowledge that it’s rape/incest/etc and that it would rationally upset people.’ 

the danger of ‘rape culture’ is that it’s made up of things that are normal and treated like common sense, like ‘that’s just how it is.’ that’s what makes it a pervasive culture that creates unsafe situations, keeps victims from speaking up, enables perpetrators to do what they want and to get away with it. you get away with assault and harassment by convincing people that it doesn’t count. what was dangerous and hurtful to me about the content i saw was, like i said, that it was treated casually, that there was scarcely any acknowledgment that certain ships or kinks or specific portrayals of otherwise inoffensive tropes were more caustic, should be treated with more care. 

in the same way that romcoms will utilize what is objectively stalker behavior and have it be rewarded with the romance working out in the end, loads of fanfiction would involve rape/incest/csa and not acknowledge it-- either because the author genuinely doesn’t understand that’s what they’re portraying (which is the fault of generalized rape culture) or because it’s just inconvenient that anybody would be a killjoy loser about what they see as a totally made up concept that doesn’t affect anybody-- and have everything neatly tied up in the end with their ship getting together/fucking and everyone praising it in the comments as such great content. it was encouraged and common (Normalized) to see literally no difference between that kind of shit and any other fluffy happy uwu unproblematic fanworks because all of it was fictional and all of it was made by people having fun. nothing in it needed to be taken seriously and none of it should bother anybody.

clearly, this is not what things are like now!!! like of course things arent perfect but there’s exponentially more awareness among like, all people, especially in fandom as well, of the broader implications of everything, the seriousness of a given subject matter. when these things do happen by genuine accident it gets discussed, and it happens less because people are exposed to those discussions beforehand. and everyone is goddamn well aware of what makes a ship Problematic, the theory behind it, even if there’s a whole lot of debate about whether those rules are being enforced appropriately or in good faith. like, as much as it’s obnoxious and creepy for people to be like “yes i know i’m SOOOO problematic <3 i do all of this on purpose <3 i love being as EDGY as possible <3 kinkshaming is my kink <3” it’s literally a VERY GOOD THING that they actually fucking know it’s wrong. that’s a big fucking change. that’s the entire point of working against grooming because grooming is based on normalization... a person saying “i’m into this specifically because it’s taboo and i know exactly how wrong it is” is literally not normalizing it lmao.

basically im just. longwindedly repeating what i said before: the fact that people actually know now to have locked side accounts and separate aliases and shit for specific kinds of content is a sign that this discussion is working. acknowledging that certain shit is caustic and different and triggering is actually a big fucking deal in contrast to how shit used to be and that on its own is going a long way in protecting today’s kids. this is why it aggravates me so much that we’ve escalated to infiltrating intentionally private spaces just to... show these works to a much broader audience that the creator literally did not want and took measures to avoid. the ‘righteous’ person who goes EVERYONE LOOK AT THIS!!! is literally doing more damage than the person who was like ‘i know this is a sensitive matter and people who dont sign up for it shouldnt be exposed to it’ and had their trust violated. even if the latter person is the one that’s the Evil Pervert. 

if what’s in that private account is anything less than expressed intent/desire to actually harm real people then it should stay private because that means it’s literally inherently not the kind of thing that poses an immediate threat to people. maybe you view it as like, a Spiritual threat, metaphysical, religious, because of dwelling on it so much, spending so much time being afraid of what people are hiding, being crushed under the emotional burden of Everything In The World Is Unethical In Some Way, but that’s just. not healthy. and we do not agree. the tree that falls in the forest may still make a sound but it’s not one you would have heard if you weren’t putting yourself in its path. the tree falling ON you is a worse outcome than the sound alone if you hadn’t been there. Does that make sense

[nr0r]

I am literally copying and pasting from Discord heck

You ever just wake up and get a lot of stuff to write down so you jump on that immediately before sleeping again? Like, jump on your computer to type it easier and all that? yeah. ok so I'm gonna honestly sit and hammer out why ZaDr is so shipped, despite the controversial status. Maybe put some logic/reasoning on this extremely old ship, prolly post this up on Tumblr or Twitter. Cause I'm extra about yesterday, and want to at least give people some form of clarity, cause that's nice to have. Ok uh. aHEM ANYWAY blabbing away aside:

ZaDr is extremely popular, and the biggest thing I hear most outta people other than moral out cries of 'age disputes' (we don't know ZIM's real age at all, and it's very possible he very well could still be a kid. There's stuff that supports this, but I'm not here to post my proofs for my very vanilla 'ZIM is actually a kid' AU. Maybe some other time. Whatever, moving on) and 'they hate each other/are enemies disputes' (enemies -> friends, as well as enemies -> romance is an age old trope and everywhere. Seriously. This is in every fandom just about and is inescapable. It even happens in canon in a lot of them.) So here's some clarity on why this gets shipped to hell and back:

The two have a LOT of common, in fact, a LOT more than the rest of the cast do. Their chemistry is prime for shipping compared to everyone else, despite the 'moral issues': -ZIM and Dib are both EXTREMELY passion/overly zealous about their goals, ambitions and beliefs to the point of ludicrousy and mockery. -People don't believe them and do not believe in them. At all. -They crave acceptance in their beliefs and ability to succeed in their goals. -They also crave acceptance/being commended/acknowledged by their superiors, who regularly put them down/mock them over their goals/ambitions/beliefs -They are so so so stubborn about this, despite the clear odds stacked against them -Both have no friends. Both are incredibly lonely and can only, realistically, confide in each other at this point. This has even happened in canon, tho that episode was never finished and aired (Mopiness of Doom) -This is the only ship with an episode like Mopiness of Doom -They fuel each other's ambitions and would be nothing without each other

These are the primary reasons why this gets shipped like crazy. Other ships exist, and boy howdy do I ship some of them too as I am shipping trash, but I'm willing to admit and accept there's very little in the way of 'proof' or chemistry for them. Some ships I ship that have no hope compared to ZaDr honestly:

RaZr: -A common trope. SuperiorxUnderling. But they got nothing going really -Seriously. RED fucking hates ZIM, and while this argument is used against ZaDr, Mopiness still happened. -RED actually regularly tries to get ZIM killed. Same with PURPLE. Both sent him to a part of the universe they thought would yield nothing in the hopes of ZIM dying off from the long travel/never returning/getting lost -All they have going for them is: 1. That trope and 2. They uh grew up together -ZIM will probably someday kill him and PURPLE tbh

TaGr. This is a VERY popular ship... but like: -What... what have they done together in screen time -Or transcripts -Or comics? -No seriously. What? Hardly anything at all. People just ship them cause they're both grumpy and girls tbh.

RaPr is ACTUALLY the only other ship that's very viable and has canon support that I can think of: -I don't have to explain this  -Just look at them -They're like. Married, dude! -MARRIED!!!

Gonna get into ships that I see are done to spite ZaDr, which... makes no... sense...Like... why do people ship ships to spite other ships...It's like me going up to a buffet of cakes, seeing people eating chocolate cakes mostly so I pick vanilla just to spite the chocolate cake fans and I'm all " -ZIM LAUGHTER- FOOLS!!! YOU INSOLENT EARTH-PIGS!!!! COWER AND TREMBLE AND CRY FOR I HAVE CHOSEN CHOCOLATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!" like... what are they seriously gonna do....? Drop their cake and cry? No dude they're gonna keep eating lmao

anyway. anyway. salt aside, let's get into this:

GaDr (Gretchen and Dib romance): -Why? -They never... really... maybe a couple times in the comics and once in the show. But that's literally it. -All the people I have personally interacted with who ship this ship proudly proclaim it's to spite ZaDr like. Good for you?  -Like dawg it's ok if Shadow is my favorite Sonic character man. You don't... you don't gotta stan Cream the Rabbit just because so many people stan Shadow the Hedgehog. Like it's ok. It's ok. It's ok.

ZaSr (ZIM and Skoodge romance): -I actually enjoy this ship. It can be done cutely, but like... -Dawg, ZIM is AWFUL to Skoodge -Fucks him over -Mocks him -Nearly gets him killed a number of times -They got nothing going for them other than being short, being unfortunate and the same species

ZaTr: -The only straight ship I ship lmao -Ummmm -Again. Why. A lot of these 'spite ships' actually contain the problems people complain about most, but ignore in spite ships or when TAK is in the equation (DaTr) which I don't get, but like hey, I said what I needed to earlier already. -No seriously, WHY? I don't... because... enemies->romance, right? They just don't have enough material. It would be like if ZIM and Dib only had Nightmare Begins are their material, and that's it. If that were so, I too would be saying WHY?

I think this concludes my brain vomit, and I can finally get back to bed, but yeah idk. 

Disclaimer: It is fine to like ships, it is fine to dislike ships, but don't be a bully over it. I've seen tireless arguments against ZaDr that are honestly? Easily broken down through a couple google searches. This doesn't invalidate disliking something, but this doesn't mean it's 'right' either. All in all, we're all watching IZ 'wrong' by shipping these characters. Hell, we're watching it 'wrong' by even liking them enough or thinking any of them are cute. Seriously. At the end of the day, Jhonen hates how we're all going about fandom participation, and practically has since day one, even if there was nothing shipped ever (which is impossible tbh.) That's why he stirs the pot. That's why he likes to make crude/random statements just to get easy people riled up, and that's classic 'don't take the bait/feed the trolls' internet 101 at play.

And double Disclaimer: You simply cannot make noise against ZaDr over the joke of ZIM being ‘OLT AF’, and then continue on with TaGr and DaTr. You just cannot. You also cannot make noise against ZaDr for ‘moral’ reasons and then ignore... DaGr (Dib and Gaz). Seriously. That one has absolutely no fucking defense. None. That’s disgusting, that’s incest, that’s sick, that’s   I’m getting off topic but. Still bro.

[mermaidsirennikita]

What do you think about this whole "anti culture" on tumblr? I understand disliking something and criticizing something, but anti culture is more than that-it's constantly hating on smh, it's trying to make people who like it feel bad, it's trying to claim some moral superiority (like "canon vs fanon", "my ship's purer/better than yours", "I ship problematic ship (PS) myself, but lecture others for shipping other PSs", etc.), it's sending hateful anons etc. It exists in almost every fandom.

I... have a lot of mixed feelings.  Obviously I have no issue with being argumentative (lol I answered a couple of anons in an argumentative manner today) but to me there’s debating and there’s actively seeking trouble and I’d prefer to stay out of that PERSONALLY because while I have a ton of opinions I consider some opinions more important to me than others.  Like, do I love every ship that comes across my dash?  Not at all.  There are many I loathe.  But it’s really not worth my time or energy to bitch about it.  I do. Oh, I do.  But most of the time that involves me messaging or texting my mutuals/friends privately.  I was more into being super loud about my fandom opinions a few years ago, but now I’d prefer to write a super fucking long essay that I’ve thought about for a bit vs. just dashing off a three-sentence post every few hours.  I also feel like I do a lot more of my talking in my tags, and that’s more private on Tumblr, you know?

I do think there are some incredibly problematic ships out there.  I ship some.  BACK IN MY DAY--and anyone who’s followed me for a long time knows this--I was like... the resident Incest Shipper.  I had about three or four sibling ships I just kinda circulated.  Obviously I abhor incest irl, but it was a problematic thing I shipped, and I still have some of those ships though incest isn’t popular on TV as it was a while back lmao and thus there is less for me to ship.  But the thing is that though I shipped these ships, I never romanticized them.  I recognized them as fucked up.  My canonical ending for most of them in my head was “they all die”.  I didn’t think it was okay.  I didn’t want anyone to run off together or *coughsaveWesteroscough*.  I called out my own problematic-ness and basically acknowledged that a lot of my interest in these ships was based on a) hot actors b) chemistry and c) my own interest in tragic ships and what is more tragic than people who can never and should never be together and will probably end up dead?

I do think there are limits.  Because the way we view fiction does reflect the way we view real life, and I think that if you are not shipping consenting adults with consenting adults, you are not in good territory.  Any ship that involves pedophilia, I don’t think you can defend with “it’s fiction, I know it’s wrong!” because there are plenty of kids on the internet who can fall prey to being groomed if they get involved in fandoms that are down and chill and groovy with pedophilia-related ships, and also that’s just... beyond.  Like, if the actors playing people you are shipping are an adult and a child, that is a real fucking child you’re sexualizing right there.  I don’t feel like I can explain the wrongness of this in comparison to other things, and it shouldn’t have to be explained.  It also, frankly, is a part of a very big issue online rn which involves children being groomed through subliminal messaging, not by anyone outright being like “want a candy bar little girl”.

There’s also an element of me that says... whatever.  Sure, you might get your feelings hurt because people are calling you out on shipping weird shit, but maybe you should.  If it’s perpetuating harmful ideas, if you’re writing fanfic that involves rape or a number of other fucked up shit that I see on here... be prepared to get called out.  Back when I shipped Cesare/Lucrezia on The Borgias, I think I was pretty tame, but I still got anon hate and I just kind of was like “yep figured I would anyway moving on”.  Buck up, buttercup.  Tbh, there is much worse than some of the hate I’ve seen people receive on here that they freak out over.  Much worse off your computer, to be exact.  And it’s not fair, maybe, but you should probably be prepared for that.  For me, nothing on here can be as bad as my real life has been for the past few months lol.  That’s not even the worst that my life has been, and many people have it 10000000000000000% worse than I do.  I think you do need to have a thick skin on here, because not everyone will agree with you and there will always be toxicity in fandoms.

But what is an “anti”, really?  Is it someone that disagrees with you?  We’re all against something, you know.  Obviously the biggest anti thing I see is anti-r*ylo, and I don’t super like that ship either though I don’t care enough to express my opinion.  Or anti-j*nerys, which I have expressed my opinion about a good bit.  Everyone has a problematic ship, but I think the issue that “antis” have with those ships is the weird cultishness around them, the insistence that they MUST be canon (when canon is hardly the end all be all) and the fact that they’ve sort of taken over large chunks of the fandom.  I follow “antis”, and I’ve seen people for their ships be twice as vicious as they’ve ever been.  People claiming moral superiority are hardly the only ones sending hateful anons.

Also, you can indeed shut anon off and if it’s a problem you should probably do that.

My opinion is basically: that sucks, check yourself and your own behavior if people call you out, some will be right about your own issues and maybe you can fix that, but also some will just be assholes to be assholes.  And while fandom is usually based around fiction that somehow reflects reality, as all fiction does, it’s not real.  That’s so important to remember.  It’s not real.

[greywindys]

So shit's pop'n off with the shippers, and it's making me wonder. How do you feel about anti-shipping in general? As well as antis who feel that if ya like a bad ship you're promoting what makes it bad (you like 2nu? you like Pedophilia/Incest. 2Doc? you think spouse abuse is fine.) Do you think there might be validity to trying to get people off a ship promoting bad behavior? Or is it an excuse for bullying? Or maybe a bit of both?

Anti-shipping doesn’t bother me that much tbh. There’s value in having a diversity of perspective, especially in this fandom where the ships with the most visibility carry with them a lot of different issues. So, we kinda have to maintain an equilibrium because if one side ever overpowers another then people begin to feel alienated. I was here when the fandom was mostly pro-shipping, and you had some fans acting very aggressively towards anti-shippers (some of whom were pretty young). For that reason, I’ve had a tendency to side with anti-shippers more, at least here and probably as long as fandom in general remains on Tumblr which, imo, is a very shitty platform for fandom BECAUSE we’re all squished together trying to coexist and we all know that’s never going to work.

All that being said, I find the idea of equating liking something with promoting it kinda myopic. Some of it seems to come from this idea of thinking that shipping = wanting the ship to end happily ever after. To me, shipping has always meant, “I see there’s a story to tell here and I’d like to explore that.” And that could literally be anything. We also tend to deploy a certain level of cognitive dissonance like, I know with Noodle shippers, fans tend to self-insert into her rather than actually view her as Noodle subsequently making it a lot easier to gloss over the age difference. Other people just like…are kinky, which is a whole other discussion but what I’m trying to say is none of us have ANY idea of why we’re here doing what we’re doing and we’re not entitled to that information if someone doesn’t want to share it. Like, I’m also averse to the notion that you have to disclose trauma to justify interest in a ship.

As for “getting people off a ship” I’m not sure I personally would ever say directly to a person “stop shipping this, you’re gross” but I do think it’s valuable to encourage people to challenge their own thinking so that they can ship more consciously (putting disclaimers up, tagging appropriately etc.) Some people *do* take the bully route which is murky territory because you have to realize that when someone has been personally affected by something, it’s going to be a sensitive issue and the knowledge that yeah, realistically, they’re not going to be able to stop EVERYONE from shipping is frustrating and infuriating. It can be difficult to see but there *is* a distinction between anger and bullying.  People who send anon hate are bullying. People who vent on their personal blogs are angry and likely have valid reasons for being angry (though tbh, it’s always a little perplexing to me when I see people place these incredibly scathing vents in the main tags because 9/10 someone is going to clap back at the same level of anger and then it just spirals from there).

Basically, I’m okay with anti-shipping but not to the point where I expect or would pressure people to stop shipping completely (or hating on them when they don’t) because like…I don’t know every single fan or their story or where they’re coming from. I ship too, so like, what would that make me? But we also need to be open to acknowledging the issues with the ships in this fandom so that hopefully people feel comfortable talking about it openly (which would then hopefully decrease anon hate). Hopefully this makes sense! It’s hard to articulate my position in a short answer because in some ways, I’m still figuring it out for myself too.

[sigurdjarlson]

RANT INCOMING. Yeah it’s about the hellcourse. (tw: rape, abuse, sexual abuse, incest) 

You know a lot of these people seem to have this view that "this makes me feel bad so it's bad and should not exist" and it's a very narrow minded, selfish point of view (it's telling that most 🐜 are children tbh because children have that kind of logic. Some people never grow out of it though I guess)

a particular kink, trope, show, book, fanfic, piece of fan art, whatever that makes you uncomfortable or even triggers you..is not inherently bad. Bad for you? Yes. Bad for everyone in the world ever? No. And to say something should not exist because YOU personally don't like it is..a very entitled and selfish way to view things.

 I've read fics that make me uncomfortable.

 I've read fics that left me feeling gross and fucked up for days. But are the authors bad? Absolutely not. Is the work inherently bad and dangerous? No. It's my personal experiences that make me feel the way I do and not everyone shares the same personal experiences I do. What upsets you might not upset someone else. What helps you might not help someone else. And understanding that is a matter of empathy I think.

when it comes to..problematic works of fiction. (Noncon, abusive ships, incest) they're exactly that. Fiction. Are those things horrible? Definitely. But it's perfectly fine and safe to explore these things in fiction. No one is being harmed. And as long as no one is arguing that they are okay there's no issue.  (and I have rarely, rarely seen shippers arguing that any of these things are okay irl, Honestly some of the shippers of very problematic things that i’ve met are some of the kindest, intelligent people i’ve ever known! Because what someone likes in fiction does not correlate with who they are irl or what they condone irl) 

 And someone being uncomfortable with those things is not the problem because it's understandable. It's when a person thinks they can dictate what a person consumes in fiction that it becomes a problem. It becomes a problem when people begin abusing others for having different opinions. 

Why might someone want to explore these things in fiction?

Some people just find the dark sides of humanity interesting. Fiction is a safe way to explore such things because no one is being harmed. You can explore why someone might do those things or what causes someone to end up that fucked up. Sometimes things are so awful we struggle to comprehend what could possibly make a person do those things and we’re trying to understand it via fiction.

Some people do use it to cope. This has been controversial as of late and...just because a coping mechanism is harmful for you does not mean its harmful to everyone. Everyone copes differently and mental health professionals understand that and thats why people are sometimes encouraged to explore their trauma through fiction. It helps those people. It doesn’t help you? That’s okay but you don’t get to take that away from others because you don’t like it.

You do not have a right to dictate what is or is not healthy for another person unless you are their mental health professional or they ask for your input. Seriously. Mind your own business.

Some people get off on it. Yeah. Some people jack it to noncon and incest and such. So what? It might disgust you (and that’s understandable and most shippers would agree) but it’s hurting NO ONE. Like I said as long as they’re not like hey this would be totally cool in real life...they’re not hurting anyone. 

This can make survivors understandably uncomfortable. No one is saying you’re wrong for being uncomfortable with it. People are saying you’re wrong because you’re trying to control what other people do. 

And the thing is...a lot of those people ARE survivors too. ^^ Scroll back up to the paragraph on coping.

 There are a million reasons why someone might be aroused by these things too.

Some people like it because it’s taboo/dirty/wrong. It’s the feeling that they’re dirty for getting off on it that gets their rocks off.

Some people like it because that’s all they can get off to due to trauma. (this is a common reaction believe it or not. Things like rape fantasies are common in rape victims.)

Some people want to explore dark themes in fiction. Maybe they just find it interesting because it’s so horrible they can’t comprehend what makes people do those things.

Maybe they’re trying to work out things from their past. 

Maybe they’re exploring these themes because they’re trying to understand what happened to them and why it might have happened.

 Maybe they’re trying to take back the power/control they had so cruelly ripped from them. 

They just do. Some people have kinks and they have no idea why. That’s alright. Rape fantasies are quite common in the general population. You can argue why that is all day long but it doesn’t change the fact that people have them. Some people like the thought of being powerless. Some like the idea of someone being so attracted to them they can’t control themselves. I can go on and on.

 Most romance novels have themes like this actually. And that’s okay because it’s fiction. Is that okay in real life? NO. That’s rape. You should always have someone’s enthusiastic, informed, consent.

Also the thing is..rape in real life isn’t about attraction. It’s about power and control. And no one ever truly wants rape. (That’s why it’s rape??) Dub-con is not a thing in real life. Only in fiction. And in fiction? It’s perfectly okay to explore these things because it doesn’t hurt real people. 

And people argue this normalizes such things but it doesn’t? You can’t normalize something that is universally condemned? Rape/incest/abuse is wrong. This isn’t a controversial opinion.

People who claim things like rape/incest/abuse aren’t inherently wrong for XYZ reasons are either (1) delusional (2) trying and failing to rationalize their own behavior (3) lying.

I think of how surveys say college men claim rape is okay and I can tell you right now they KNOW rape is wrong. They’re actively choosing to believe otherwise. They’re trying to convince themselves of it. (rationalizing) 

Abusers will argue all day long about how their behavior isn’t abuse because ______ or they deserved it because _______. It’s not their fault because ________

They will attempt to rationalize their own behavior to take the blame off themselves and put it elsewhere(or take the guilt off themselves if they are even capable of feeling guilt). Hell, sometimes they convince themselves they’re right and actually believe it. 

It reminds me of a post that had a passage from a book on abusers. It goes something like “abusive men will claim they have no control and yet more often than not when in a rage they destroy their victim’s belongings..but not their own.” 

It’s a choice. It’s not because they saw a show with abuse in it and became an abusive monster. They chose to be one.

Are there cases when people aren’t aware they’re being abusive? Sure. But usually on some level they do know what they’re doing is wrong. Most of us know instinctively that hurting others (whether physically or emotionally) is wrong. (unless someone has rationalized their behavior and deluded themselves into thinking it’s right. which happens) But again..this is not caused by fictional content however. There are many reasons but that is not one of them.

Some people claim that predators will use it to groom victims. And the thing is predators can use anything to groom victims. They can use praise, candy, puppies, anything to groom their victims. The point of grooming is to make the victim trust them and they can use many things to do that. 

Also I will point out that most noncon/incest/abuse fics are tagged as such. It’s tagged as rape/abuse/incest. Rape/abuse/incest is bad. It’s not called anything else there. It is what it is and no one is trying to argue otherwise. So....it would actually be counterproductive for them to use such things? Because it’s acknowledged as being wrong. They don’t want their victims to think it’s wrong. 

Some people raise the concern of children stumbling upon these things and not understanding or worse acting on what they’re seeing because it makes them believe it’s normal. 

And..that’s the same argument as “violent video games make people violent.” 

If i write a noncon fic and a child stumbles upon it despite it being tagged properly...it’s not my fault. Beyond proper tagging I am not responsible for monitoring what children see. That is the PARENTS job. If a child lies and says they’re 18 and reads said fic...it’s not my fault. 

This is the case for anything. Books, tv shows, porn, etc. Content warnings are there for a reason. Child safe options are there for a reason. Should we ban everything in the world that is inappropriate for children to see? (violence is included but somehow no one ever argues violent shows or fics should be banned..only sex...hm...telling) 

No. We should put warnings and have better tagging systems, etc. Beyond that..this is the parent’s responsibility. Children shouldn’t be seeing it in the first place.

And the harm something can do does not erase the good it may possibly do. some people only realize what happened to them was abuse because they saw it tagged as #abuse or #rape. There are so many survivors who use this kind of content to cope. There are a lot of good things that can come from it to believe it or not.

There’s also genuinely a lack of sex ed and people should be championing better sex ed programs in schools rather than trying to rid the internet of a ship they don’t like. Seriously I can’t stress this enough. We need better sexual education in schools. 

To say fiction causes X is taking the responsibility off the perpetrator. It’s giving predators the ability to cry about how society is the problem not them! Fiction made them do it! It’s not their fault!

Guess what? It is their fucking fault because they knew what they were doing. They chose to hurt someone and they deserve 100% of the blame for it. Don’t you dare take that off them. 

And yes rape culture is a thing but I might argue that these reoccurring themes are not the cause as much as a lens through which we can see problems that are already there.

And these things are 100% a problem when done in real life. But in fiction. Ughh I just..fiction hurts no one. No one is being harmed. Fictional characters are not people. They have no rights. They don’t have feelings. 

And people who stumble upon these things and are genuinely triggered? It’s very unfortunate and I sympathize but it doesn’t mean those works should be removed from the world. 

(I completely agree things should be properly tagged so people who don’t want to see those things can avoid them. And people who don’t tag their shit need to get their act together)

But ultimately It's your responsibility to make your own safe space. Unfollow blogs that ship or post things that upset you, stop reading fics that make you uncomfortable, don't go in the tags, blacklist, block, etc. there are so many options! 

If people tag their shit and you pointedly ignore those warnings and barge in anyway and then get upset...it;’s not the creator’s fault?

Fiction does effect reality but not in the way people think. It’s not a direct cause and effect relationship. Correlation does not equal causation. 

If Tom reads a noncon fic and rapes someone..it’’s not the author’s fault? Or the fic’s? It’s fully on Tom who chose to rape someone. The fic did not make him a rapist. No one reads something and suddenly turns into a horrible person. If they act on shit like that? They already had very serious issues to begin with because normal, decent people do not do those things. Duh.

And you know I think a lot of @nti’s are survivors lashing out. And hey I get it. I’m a survivor too. I may cope differently than you do but I can understand why others would be upset by it. I’m sorry you had such horrible things happen to you. You didn’t deserve it and your abuser/rapist deserves to rot in fucking hell

But the thing is...fiction isn’t the problem. It didn’t make them do what they did. (that’s a whole other discussion)

People who choose to do horrible things are the problem. 

Maybe @nti’s are lashing out at creators because they can’t lash out at the people that hurt them. That’s misdirected aggression and it’s harmful. 

Don’t hurt others who have done nothing wrong because you’re hurting. 

Hurt people hurt others. The cycle of abuse is called a cycle for a reason 

(While most survivors do not become abusers, it cannot be denied that most abusers were abused at some point. if you’re trying to understand why abusers are abusers you have to take that into account because it is a factor. Along with many other factors)

And I see that with many @nti’s. (not all) They doxx, suicide bait and emotionally abuse others in the name of “justice.” That’s just rationale. Faulty rationale for very toxic behavior.

I believe there are definitely some @nti’s are just fucking assholes who are using social justice as an excuse to treat others like shit because it makes them feel better. But I also believe some people are genuinely misguided or lashing out too.

The thing to remember..you are still responsible for your behavior. Being a survivor or mentally ill does not make you exempt from this rule. You are responsible for critically looking at your own behavior and making appropriate changes. 

I try to live my life in a way that causes the least harm possible. That’s my philosophy and I think it’s one all of us should strive to live by.

Your life will become much more pleasant if you avoid the things you dislike and enjoy the things you do like. Strive to help others. Not hurt innocent people. 

Please stop hurting people over fictional ships. It’s not hurting anyone. It really isn’’t.

If you want to really help people. If you really want to help survivors..help REAL survivors. Donate to charities, volunteer, work for better sex ed, the list goes on and on.  (many shippers do these things too because they understand that fiction and reality need to be separate) 

Because telling Angie on tumblr she’s disgusting for shipping X does nothing.

Summary: I’m very tired of all this

But I wish you all the best all the same.

Whoever you are...whoever is reading this. I hope you find peace..

[diabolikdrabbles]

FREAKIN' THANK YOU for drawing the line, omg. This is why I've even taken to blocking some of the stuff that I see in this fandom. Ppl can like what they like, but it is so hard to find blogs that actually care about the psychological need for these boys to get better than drool over some hot incest. Sometimes the stuff I see makes me wonder if we're even talking about the same game.

Sighhhhh, it is quite disappointing sometimes when I see the different levels of conversations about the series throughout the fandom. Though I think it’s because we’re all here for different reasons or purposes.

I love the diaboys, I really do. I drool over them too BUT I also understand that if I met someone exactly like them in real life, I’d avoid them at all costs. Anime boys are just easier to like because you can 1) admire them from afar without getting your feelings hurt and 2) it’s a fantasy most of us dream of becoming a reality one day in our own relationships. The diaboys are all twisted in their own way. Some blogs acknowledge this while others don’t, and it’s just a weird mix tbh.

The reason why I tend to take on the psychological viewpoints whenever someone makes a claim about the characters going through specific mental illnesses or behaviors is because I want them to realize that perhaps it isn’t what they originally thought it was supposed to be. I’m not an expert in psychology, I’m not a psychologist, I don’t even study psychology in school. But I’m aware of mental illnesses and understand it since I have family members dealing with it. Even now, there’s still an issue of understanding mental illness in general in our world. Those long answers I give back on those asks aren’t meant to attack people. It’s to educate them and make them think deeper. I may come off a little strong or harsh and I’m often criticized for those aspects of mine, but it comes with good purpose. I have no intentions of hurting anyone with my words.

As for the incest ships or ships in general and as I’ve explained before, I don’t care. I mean, I do to some extent, but I won’t go out of my way to make someone’s day shitty by starting a dumb Tumblr fight with them. Ship what you want, just don’t make Yui some insignificant third wheel person and for God’s sake, enough with the incest. It’s problematic, guys. I’m not homophobic or anything like that. If the boys weren’t all related to each other, then I wouldn’t have mind. But they are. And this is an otome game catered for female audiences first and foremost. I’m sure many of you would jump into my askbox and attack me if I had said, “Dream Daddy is not catered to gay people originally!! I can ship the dads with other girl characters too!!” Oh, how the tables would turn then.

Like, do you see what I mean? How frustrating and hypocritical it is to have this topic be discussed? People run in circles with it. It’s annoying and ugh, I’m sorry for making this answer longer than what it should be but I felt as though this was a good place for clarification and such because this is a rising issue and people have been discussing this with me back and forth for two days now, and I just want to go back to writing scenarios as soon as I get my test over with on Tuesday, and okay. I’m done ranting now.

-Admin Yuuzuki

[jockhunta-blog]

shadowhunters, oops.

send me a fandom and i’ll tell you…     //      accepting.

heads up, I stopped watching the show like 2 episodes into s2 so I’ll be going off the books, which I’ve read all of (including the spin offs) because I’m TRASH. also, I’m going by the main series here, so if anybody wants to ask about TID or TDA that’s fair game : )))

the first character i ever fell in love with: CLARY HECKIN FRAY MY DAUGHTER 

a character that i used to love/like, but now do not: alec, unfortunately. honestly I DO still love him but I just can’t deal with how the fandom treats him like he can do no wrong. he’s a lovely character but I just don’t feel excited about him like I used to purely because of all the Fandom Discourse like he deserves better tbh

a ship that i used to love/like, but now do not: I guess M/alec for the same reason. the fandom is just horrible in their treatment of these two like constantly putting them on this pedestal and refusing to acknowledge their flaws ??? like ??? let them be flawed that’s what makes them more realistic. and to be clear this is like the Fandom not really the rpc fandom !! i feel like the rpc generally does a better job of letting these two be flawed but the Fandom itself is a trashfire tbh

my ultimate favorite character™: Sebastian because I’m the worst and I like the villains the best lmao

prettiest character: I/SABELLE L/IGHTWOOD COULD STEP ON ME AND I’D NOT ONLY THANK HER BUT ASK HER TO DO IT AGAIN

my most hated character: Valentine I guess ?

my OTP: Cl/ace will always be my fave but I’ve got a soft spot for Cl/arabelle and Cl/imon as well

my NOTP: J/imon. mostly because of bad experiences I’ve had with people in the rpc that based like their entire portrayals around it and the issues I had with them have just tainted the ship for me forever. 

favorite episode book: City of Heavenly Fire or City of Lost Souls

saddest death: Seb’s death fucked me up because I KNEW she was gonna hit us with green eye Jonathan before he died and it still fucked me up and Jocelyn holding him uh g. he deserved it of course but mother’s losing their children gets me, even though jocelyn never was much of a mom to him.

favorite season scene: anything where Seb and Clary interact or anything where Magnus sasses someone bc out of all the characters he’s the biggest sass master lbr 

least favorite season scene: I don’t remember the books well enough scene-by-scene to have a least favorite scene lmao.

character that everyone else in the fandom loves, but i hate: I don’t HATE them but I never really saw much of a point to the Maia/Jordan story lines. Like Maia at least was kind of helpful but most of the time it felt like she and Jordan were just there for more drama or just thrown in randomly like ?? again my memory of the books isn’t the best but I just remember skipping a lot of their scenes bc they bored me lmao

my ‘you’re piece of trash, but you’re still a fave’ fave: Sebastian lmao

my ‘beautiful cinnamon roll who deserves better than this’ fave: Isabelle or Magnus tbh. let them be happy.

my ‘this ship is wrong, nasty, and makes me want to cleanse my soul, but i still love it’ ship: Cl/abastian. before anyone gets all ‘ ew incest ’ on me, let me explain: I love toxic ships, and they’re about as toxic as it gets. obviously they aren’t good for each other and should never be together but I love watching them interact because you never really know what’s going to happen ?? it’s all kinds of fucked up and that’s what makes it interesting to read about ya feel ? but it’s also TRASH and I will 100% admit to that lmao 

my ‘they’re kind of cute, and i lowkey ship them, but i’m not too invested’ ship’: out of the main ships I guess s/izzy or simon/maia ? s/izzy is cute and I have nothing against it but I’m just kinda “meh” about it having not read the books in so long. Their wedding at the end of L/ady M/idnight was cute tho. and again Simon/Maia felt like unnecessary drama lmao.

[antthonystark]

I don't get why some malec shippers are so pressed about people shipping jalec? Like we all know malec is canon why are you all so concerned about what people personally like and enjoy?? It's interesting that despite their ship literally being real they're so insecure about it that when someone ships their character with someone else they freak out

yeah, man, if everyone thought like you and i do, fandom would be a better place because ship wars wouldn’t exist. the single worst, stupidest thing about fandom is easily a ship war - even if they don’t call it that, that’s still what it is lol. unfortunately what a lot of people in fandom are best at is pitting people against each other for absolutely no reason, and they’re extremely good at it too (which, hey, at least they have, uh, something going for them)

my philosophy is “ship and let ship” - even if i don’t ship something, i don’t care if you do, it’s not my business, who cares who cares who caaaaaaares which fictional characters strangers on the internet like to think about and write about for fun?? how pressed do you need to be to make something so ridiculously insignificant your business and get all pissy and self-righteous about it lol

like, in terms of OTPs, i ship malec first and foremost (i shipped jalec casually for a bit at the start of s1 when alec actually had canon feelings for jace, and then alec’s “my brother” tirades as s2 began sort of got me out of it lol and now it’s just my #1 brotp), so i would never want to see alec with anyone except magnus. but why should i care if someone else thinks differently? what business is it of mine, right? especially given that malec is so very, extremely, incredibly canon (like…endgame, everyone’s OTP level canon), so who’s it really hurting lol

i feel like the jalec hate comes more from the magnus people than the alec people (not to throw magnus stans under the bus and i, as an alec stan, might be biased), and i totally get being upset with people who would make magnus’s character insignificant or try to demonize him or imply that he’s not good enough for alec - if people who ship jalec do those things then that’s absolutely fair enough to get upset about it. but, for the most part, come on, this is fandom. not everyone’s going to ship the same things you are, or look at things the same way, and that doesn’t mean that people are disrespecting your character or whatever it is you feel, right? 

 and you’re right about the fact that malec is not only canon but so extremely overwhelmingly popular….listen……there’s almost nobody in this fandom that doesn’t ship malec - there’s no reason to go after the few people that don’t. even a lot of people who like jalec also like malec, from what i’ve seen. like imagine not shipping malec in this fandom - you’re probably not having the best time anyway, and then people just act like assholes about it for absolutely no reason and i don’t get it tbh

and then, of course, as i mentioned in brief earlier, there’s the whole “brother” thing that has come up especially in the first couple of episodes of season 2, where people say that shipping jalec is incestuous. i can understand that perspective to an extent, (and like i said, it kind of put me off shipping jalec romantically) because adoptive siblings are still siblings, and alec clearly now considers jace to firmly be his brother in canon. but, again, if people want to ship it, i don’t have an issue with it, and i’m not going to go after people for it because it’s not my damn business - because it’s not, like, clary/sebastian where it’s, ya know, involving blood relationships. and especially because jace/alec was 50% canon for at least 9 of 13 episodes in season one, in that alec had actual feelings for jace that were 100% canon (although one-sided, reducing the canon level to the aforementioned 50% figure, if that makes sense). what’s more, these feelings were really important to his character arc in the first part of the first season. 

and, consummate alec stan that i am, i find it somewhat disrespectful to alec’s character as a guy who was really struggling and suffering with the guilt and shame of having feelings for someone like jace who was taboo to him for so many reasons by saying anyone who thinks those feelings were valid or real is gross or wrong or has an incest fetish or some such nonsense like that. 

(and, okay, they met each other when one was ten and the other approximately twelve. they weren’t necessarily “raised together” until they were on the cusp of teenhood - so that they consider each other brothers is totally, 100% valid like i said because adoptive relationships are still family relationships, but i don’t think it’s that bad if people ship it romantically, but maybe i’m just desensitized to all manners of things as a result of being in many, more gross fandoms before this one lol) 

like, also, listen. i don’t think people really understand why people like me - who ship malec - are a little iffy about how they never really wrapped up alec’s feelings on jace. the thing is, i’m first and foremostest an alec stan, and if you watch s1, especially the early part of it, through alec-tinted glasses, so much of his arc and personal character elements have to do with his feelings for jace, and then it didn’t get a whole of resolution. and rather than have them be naturally phased out as his interest for magnus grows - which i would have been totally fine with because that’s realistic and makes sense - it kept being brought up as late as episode 9 (when alec punched jace in the face for bringing it up, so that’s healthy) and then just completely dropped out of the blue by the next three episodes. and then he’s just 100% brother, no mention of those feelings that he so awfully struggled with. they did kind of do a bit of ship whiplash - shiplash, coining it now, nailed it - between having alec actually have feelings for jace to considering him his brother and nothing else, especially since they really played up alec’s feelings for jace (or maybe that was just matt daddario’s insanely well-acted longing stares @ jace that just sort of punched me in the gut every time, so i overstated their importance in my own mind, which is entirely possible). again, introducing magnus and starting to build the malec relationship makes sense as an impetus for affecting this change in the jace/alec relationship, but the one line that will always haunt me is the one in 1x09 - why bring it up if you were just trying to phase it outtttttttt

from an alec stan and a writing perspective, it sorta rubbed me the wrong way, but if they’re doing it this way, i have no problem and don’t want them to unnecessarily revisit it for no real reason other than to present a pointless, perfunctory “wrap-up” similar to the tacked-on resolution that was presented in the books where alec only “thought” he had feelings for jace. i’d much, much, much rather them go forward with malec if that’s what the intention is, because ultimately that’s where things should be and i don’t want them to get hung up on things that should have been wrapped up in the first season but weren’t. but wanting closure on an important arc for your favourite character isn’t a bad thing, either. i feel like these days people even acknowledging that alec’s feelings for jace were real in any way are considered “lol gross j*lecs who hate magnus and only want white men to get together lol”