#as he did have the rights of an envoy and Rhaenyra would and should have respected that

[rhaenin-time]

Among the reasons I don't trust that the writers of HotD understand the story they're trying to tell is that even with the baffling changes made to darken his character, Daemon is the only one talking sense in Episode 10 and yet it's clear the writers don't want you to think that.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen being attacked for decisions made by members of her Council is an actual thing, I realize. And its basis is 21st century misogyny found in certain “fans”.

Here are some examples:

1. B&C was orchestrated by Daemon, as retribution for the murder of Lucerys Velaryon. Daemon sent Rhaenyra a letter from Harrenhal (in the book canon, he was already there when news reached them), in which he promised her that her son would be avenged. That’s it. She was informed that Daemon would do something in retribution, but she wasn’t filled in on what.

And somehow, Rhaenyra is responsible for B&C. How? Because she didn’t stop Daemon? (As if she could). And even if she knew what he was about to do, why should she have stopped him? Her child was murdered in cold blood. The war had not yet begun. Her innocent boy was an envoy, and he was murdered while peace terms were still being considered. Rhaenyra is a mother in pain. The only thought running through her mind at the time was that her child was murdered. She didn’t give a damn about any of the “green” children. Why should she? I know I wouldn’t if I were in her place.

Rhaenyra had no knowledge of B&C and was not in any way involved, nor did she care enough to stop it. And I repeat, why should she?

2. The situation with Ladies Rosby and Stokeworth. I am super tired of hearing how Rhaenyra is “evil” because she didn’t support the ascension of other women in positions of power at the time.

First and foremost: How is that her job? Oh, that’s right. It’s not. She had her own fight against the patriarchy and her success could have paved the way for other women to be permitted a better life in the future.

Secondly, it was Corlys, Rhaenyra’s Hand, who insisted that Ladies Rosby and Stokeworth be passed over. Corlys is the one who viewed Rhaenyra as an exception to the patriarchy.

Change doesn’t happen all of a sudden. It needs to be small, like Rhaenyra’s successful ascension on the Iron Throne. Turning the Realm into “Barbie Land” overnight would have brought down the whole system, not changed it.

Rhaenyra’s decision to heed Corlys’ advice was correct. But I also think she should have followed Daemon’s advice as well and arranged marriages for the girls with Hugh Hammer and Ulf White.

In any case, this situation is not Rhaenyra’s fault, nor was it her choice. It was Corlys’, you know, the man who’s not only her Hand but who commands the Realm’s largest fleet and finances Rhaenyra’s actual war. The fact that certain TG stans believe Rhaenyra could have done whatever she wanted in this scenario and ignored Corlys’ advice proves they don’t know shit about politicking.

3. The raised taxes in King’s Landing: once again, not Rhaenyra’s idea. It was her Master of Coin, Lord Bartimos Celtigar, who came up with this solution.

And as bad as it sounds, it is the only possible solution to the crisis, because the Greens are the ones who stole all the gold from the treasury and left the Realm impoverished (something for people to chew on, when they have the nerve to claim that TG = Team Smallfolk).

Now, when it comes to Alicent, however, she is somehow the “victim” of the decisions made by the men around her.

Hypocrisy much?

[rynnthefangirl]

I get that it is pretty standard storytelling to stack the odds in favor of your villains in order to make the protagonists eventually success more satisfying… but it is so frustrating to see how the mood of Westeros at the start of the Dance was so flipped around from what it was in the books.

People WANTED to fight for Rhaenyra. She was the Realms Delight, Viserys’ Little Girl, the rightful heir. During Aegon’s coronation, Smallfolk murmured in hesitant confusion, occasionally shouting out “Long live Queen Rhaenyra!” The Starks, the Arryns, the Velaryons, and many more houses were 100% behind her. Even in the Reach, which should have been fully in the Hightowers pocket, many houses were declaring for Rhaenyra. She had the majority of the Houses in Westeros on her side! Meanwhile Otto was writing for foreign aid in a desperate attempt to get more support for their side.

The Greens believed that the Realm would side with Aegon due to misogyny and fear of retaliation, and were shocked at how much support Rhaenrya managed to garner. They usurped the throne not just bc they were willing to tear the realm apart for power (though they were) but bc they believed it would would not be necessary. But as it turns out, stealing a throne, slaying a peace envoy and your own nephew, and imprisoning/murdering lords for keeping their oaths does NOT make you popular. The Greens were doomed by their own arrogance. They themselves had no respect for oaths or loyalty, and assumed that the rest of the Realm was the same. They thought that as long as they had Kings Landing and Vhagar, they could bribe or threaten the houses into submission. But that was not the case. The Greens plan did NOT go as they wanted bc other houses were not as grasping and selfish as they expected. Not as grasping and selfish as they and their allies were.

But in the show?

-People hate Rhaenyra for the death of Jaehaerys, but absolutely nobody seems to give a shit that Aemond murdered his nephew, a 13 year old peace envoy. I don’t think he has even been called a kinslayer yet.

-The smallfolk all cheer at Aegon’s coronation (though I will give the show credit that the smallfolks attitudes are shifting against Aegon after the ratcatchers and parading of Meleys’ head, as they should).

-Jane Arryn, Rhaenys Targaryen, Corlys Velaryon all seem to resent Rhaenyra. It’s not even clear why they are fighting for her, as it seems to be with the greatest reluctance.

-The Brackens are the noble oathkeeping house that will burn before betraying their king, while the Blackwoods are evil underhanded murderers.

-Rather than the taking of Harrenhall being a decisive and important victory for the Blacks that shakes Aegon to his core, Daemon is floundering to get any support while all the Riverlords hate him and call him and Rhaenrya a tyrant.

-The Freys are only reluctant allies, again solely for whatever they can get for it.

At this point, the only ones that seems to pose any sort of threat to the Greens is their own leaders. Certainly not any of the Blacks. I’m not even sure why Criston Cole is bothering to take smaller castles around Kings Landing instead of just marching his men to Harrenhall. They’ve talked about it being the key to the Riverlands, and it’s not as though Daemon has a host there (or seemingly any firm support from anyone but House Blackwood). So go take it! What they hell are they waiting for?

Despite the brutal losses of Rhaenys and Jace, the Blacks take both Harrenhall and then Kings Landing quite decisively and with little bloodshed. Rhaenrya’s downfall is due to her own descent into grief, vengeance, and paranoia following the death of her children and multiple betrayals, combined with the insanity sweeping KL and the realm due to the stolen crown treasury and the horrific war crimes being rained down upon the realm (thanks Aemond, Daeron, Dalton, Ulf, and Hugh).

As it stands though, I’m reminded of Game of Thrones S7-8, where Cersei is able to do anything she wants with no backlash while Daenerys and hated and betrayed for her every action, despite Dany being an infinitely better person and ruler. I mean, it’s not quite at that level, but it is in the same ball field.

Stakes are good and all, but let the leaders of Team Black be as cool as they were in the books. And let Rhaenyra be flawed, let the burden of the war force her to make bad and vengeful decisions. While I certainly don’t want Rhaenyra to be totally demonized and it should not all be on her, we’ve swung too far the other way. The show’s depiction of Team Black needs balance. And the Greens need to face consequences for what they do.

[jacaela]

"Daemon married Rhaenyra because he wanted her throne"

but when at last he came to earth, he knelt before his brother and offered up his crown as a token of his love and fealty. Viserys returned the crown and kissed Daemon on both cheeks, welcoming him home, and the lords and commons sent up a thunderous cheer as the sons of the Spring Prince were reconciled.

On Dragonstone, meanwhile, Princess Rhaenyra was once again great with child. She too took to her bed, with her husband the rogue prince ever at her side.

Surprisingly, Prince Daemon agreed with his wife. “In the Stepstones, my enemies learned to run and hide when they saw Caraxes’s wings or heard his roar…but they had no dragons of their own. It is no easy thing for a man to be a dragonslayer. But dragons can kill dragons, and have. Any maester who has ever studied the history of Valyria can tell you that. I will not throw our dragons against the usurper’s unless I have no other choice. There are other ways to use them, better ways.”

And so it was decided. Prince Daemon would lead the assault on Harrenhal, riding Caraxes. Princess Rhaenyra would remain on Dragonstone until she had recovered her strength.

“An eye for an eye, a son for a son,” Prince Daemon wrote. “Lucerys shall be avenged.”

High above the city the queen and her prince consort came together, circling over Aegon’s High Hill... Prince Daemon circled the towers of the Red Keep before bringing Caraxes down in the outer ward. Only when he was certain that the defenders would offer him no harm did he signal for his wife the queen to descend upon Syrax.

Prince Daemon proposed that the former be wed to Hard Hugh the blacksmith’s son (who had taken to calling himself Hugh Hammer), the latter to Ulf the Sot (now simply Ulf White), keeping their lands black whilst suitably rewarding the seeds for their valor in battle. But the Queen’s Hand argued against this, for both girls had younger brothers. Rhaenyra’s own claim to the Iron Throne was a special case, the Sea Snake insisted; her father had named her as his heir. Lords Rosby and Stokeworth had done no such thing. Disinheriting their sons in favor of their daughters would overturn centuries of law and precedent, and call into question the rights of scores of other lords throughout Westeros whose own claims might be seen as inferior to those of elder sisters. It was fear of losing the support of such lords, Munkun asserts in True Telling, that led the queen to decide in favor of Lord Corlys rather than Prince Daemon.

Prince Daemon echoed the queen’s misgivings. Giving pardons to rebels and traitors only sowed the seeds for fresh rebellions, he insisted. “The war will end when the heads of the traitors are mounted on spikes above the King’s Gate, and not before.” Aegon II would be found in time, “hiding under some rock,” but they could and should bring the war to Aemond and Daeron. The Lannisters and Baratheons should be destroyed as well, so their lands and castles might be given to men who had proved more loyal. Grant Storm’s End to Ulf White and Casterly Rock to Hard Hugh Hammer, the prince proposed…to the horror of the Sea Snake. “Half the lords of Westeros will turn against us if we are so cruel as to destroy two such ancient and noble houses,” Lord Corlys said. It fell to the queen herself to choose between her consort and her Hand. Rhaenyra decided to steer a middle course. She would send envoys to Storm’s End and Casterly Rock, offering fair terms and pardons…after she had put an end to the usurper’s brothers, who were in the field against her.

When the girl asked what was in the letter, he said, ‘A queen’s words, a whore’s work.’

...And yet he did nothing to take her place in any way.

[horizon-verizon]

Her first act as queen was to declare Ser Otto Hightower and Queen Alicent traitors and rebels. “As for my half-brothers and my sweet sister, Helaena,” she announced, “they have been led astray by the counsel of evil men. Let them come to Dragonstone, bend the knee, and ask my forgiveness, and I shall gladly spare their lives and take them back into my heart, for they are of my own blood, and no man or woman is as accursed as the kinslayer.” Word of Rhaenyra’s coronation reached the Red Keep the next day, to the great displeasure of Aegon II. “My half-sister and my uncle are guilty of high treason,” the young king declared. “I want them attainted, I want them arrested, and I want them dead.” Cooler heads on the green council wished to parley. “The princess must be made to see that her cause is hopeless,” Grand Maester Orwyle said. “Brother should not war against sister. Send me to her, that we may talk and reach an amicable accord.” Aegon would not hear of it. Septon Eustace tells us that His Grace accused the Grand Maester of disloyalty and spoke of having him thrown into a black cell “with your black friends.” But when the two queens—his mother, Queen Alicent, and his wife, Queen Helaena spoke in favor of Orwyle’s proposal, the truculent king gave way reluctantly. So Grand Maester Orwyle was dispatched across Blackwater Bay under a peace banner, leading a retinue that included Ser Arryk Cargyll of the Kingsguard and Ser Gwayne Hightower of the gold cloaks, along with a score of scribes and septons, amongst them Eustace. The terms offered by the king were generous, Munkun declares in his True Telling. If the princess would acknowledge him as king and make obeisance before the Iron Throne, Aegon II would confirm her in her possession of Dragonstone, and allow the island and castle to pass to her son Jacaerys upon her death. Her second son, Lucerys, would be recognized as the rightful heir to Driftmark, and the lands and holdings of House Velaryon; her boys by Prince Daemon, Aegon the Younger and Viserys, would be given places of honor at court, the former as the king’s squire, the latter as his cupbearer. Pardons would be granted to those lords and knights who had conspired treasonously with her against their true king. Rhaenyra heard these terms in stony silence, then asked Orwyle if he remembered her father, King Viserys. “Of course, Your Grace,” the maester answered. “Perhaps you can tell us who he named as his heir and successor,” the queen said, her crown upon her head. “You, Your Grace,” Orwyle replied. And Rhaenyra nodded and said, “With your own tongue you admit I am your lawful queen. Why then do you serve my half-brother, the pretender?” Munkun tells us that Orwyle gave a long and erudite reply, citing Andal law and the Great Council of 101. Mushroom claims he stammered and voided his bladder. Whichever is true, his answer did not satisfy Princess Rhaenyra. “A Grand Maester should know the law and serve it,” she told Orwyle. “You are no Grand Maester, and you bring only shame and dishonor to that chain you wear.” As Orwyle protested feebly, Rhaenyra’s knights stripped his chain of office from his neck and forced him to his knees whilst the princess bestowed the chain upon her own man, Maester Gerardys, “a true and leal servant of the realm and its laws.” As she sent Orwyle and the other envoys on their way, Rhaenyra said, “Tell my half-brother that I will have my throne, or I will have his head.” [...Arryk/Erryk Cargyll in song and legend...] Aegon II was two-and-twenty, quick to anger and slow to forgive. Rhaenyra’s refusal to accept his rule enraged him. “I offered her an honorable peace, and the whore spat in my face,” he declared. “What happens next is on her own head.” What happened next was war.

Fire and Blood, by GRRM, pg 408-410 []

[iknowhowtrianominaworksbutimlazy]

Sorry my friend, but your mixing up roles, protections and purpose here. Lucerys was a messenger who should have been and was protected by guest right in neutral territory. Aemond did not attack him in Borros‘ hall, as Borros guaranteed for his safety and attacking him wouöd have been an affront to Lord Borros. He then proceeded to leave that protected space.

And at that point it is important to remember what his mission was. The group of people that you must not attack and I assume you are thinking of are parlamentarians. But they come in to main flavours

1. To negotiate an end to hostilies, either by offering a surrender of their own side or terms and conditions for a surrender by the opposition.

2. For humanitarian purposes, like exchanging prisoners, evacuating non-combattants, evacuating the wounded, in ancient times asking for permission to recover the dead after a defeat.

These are communications that need to take place even (or especially) during war time to avoid the war turning into a completely senseless slaughter of everyone that cannot end until one side is entirely killed off. And most crucially they do not harm any side but instead benefit both.

But Lucerys fits into neither category. He was not there to negotiate a surrender, as here had not been any hostilities between Rhaenyra and the Baratheons by that point and the humanitarian option doesn‘t make sense either. So even if we _weren‘t_ explicitly told we could very much infer what his purpose was: he was there to secure/raise an army for his mother. To make sure Borros Baratheon fulfilled the oaths his father had sworn to Rhaenyra. That means he was there in a military capacity, (as was Aemond btw.) and was a valid military target according to the rules of war. That is not to say he wasn‘t „innocent“ war is not just but he was certainly a valid target.

To illustrate that point further. It is a warcrime to shoot a soldier who leaves throws down his weapons, raises his hands above his head, waves a white hankerchief in the absence of an actual white flag and shouts „I surrender“ (actually that declaration is enough) even if he killed dozens or even hundreds of your friends, comrades or even family members, you are not allowed to kill him at that point. But a truck carrying ammunition to the battlefield you are allowed to destroy and kill the driver of, even if said driver is a seventeen year old fresh out of college, who was forced into service and never hurt a single living thing.

If you want to make the point that war had not broken out, I would argue that by that point blood had already been drawn by Rhaenys at the Drageon pit and even if the outbreak of further hostilities could still have been averted, his Graces Council was justified in operating in warlike conditions.

If you want a real world example of a somewhat similar situation in our world I encourage you to check out the Trent Affair during the American Civil War where to Confederate Diplomats where taken prisoner by the Union Navy vessel USS San Jacinto. It nearly ended in war between the US and Great Britain and was only averted by the release of the Envoys. This site here provides actual insight into british grievances. Note the conspicuous absence of „a Diplomat was taken prisoner“ as a complaint. The main issue is, that they were captured aboard a british vessel and british neutrality was therefor not sufficiently respected.

Regardless of our difference in opinion regarding the works of G.R.R.Martin and their HBO Adaptations, I hope you have a most pleasant day or night.

Best wishes.

Calling an envoy, a soldier and a threat, is quite literally the dumbest thing you can say. They are basically postmen with diplomatic immunity. It really sums up the extent of intelligence I have come to expect from team green fans. Lucerys was innocent and he will keep being it, murdering him was a war crime + king slaying being a taboo.

You can take your stupid posts somewhere else. Him saying "I will not fight you" isn't a joke, he is representative of borros's enemy and his only Job is to take a letter and bring back an answer, if he joins in fighting he starts a war.....like aemond did.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

“Errors were made in the hours following King Viserys’ death.”

So much said through that line alone in the teaser. It would have been more believable to have Otto’s voice trembling while saying it.

By errors, he should mean the multiple crimes the greens have committed. Kidnapping, seizure, theft and murder for starters. I mean Otto himself hanged Lord Caswell for the simple suspicion that he was leaving to warn Queen Rhaenyra of her father’s death and the usurpation.

But that’s not what Otto meant. He doesn’t give a damn and in no way acknowledges the crimes his faction committed. What he meant was that the murder of Lucerys before a war had even officially begun, would give the Blacks just cause to retaliate. And he knew perfectly well that this is the opportunity Daemon had been waiting for.

Daemon had wanted to gut him for many years, and now that there was no Viserys to stop him, Daemon would come for all the Hightowers. And what’s more, Lucerys’ murder gives the Blacks the right to shed some Hightower blood and be perfectly justified for it.

I have seen posts with people blaming Rhaenyra for Lucerys’ death (the absurdity of it!)

First of all, at the time, no official war had been declared. Rhaenyra was even considering peace terms.

Secondly, Jacaerys and Lucerys were sent as envoys, not soldiers in battle. What certain people fail to understand is that even in war, there is a code of honor to be respected. You warn the enemy in advance that you intend to declare war, for starters. Another important aspect - envoys are not soldiers! Therefore, envoys are not to be harmed. Borros Baratheon understood that, and even he tried to protect Lucerys from Aemond’s wrath.

The boy was sent as an envoy, and as such, especially when war had not yet been declared, should be given safe passage back home.

Aemond went after him on a dragon 50 times the size of Lucerys’ and directly attacked him. Lucerys was murdered in cold blood before he could reach home from his mission.

Rhaenyra did not send her sons to their deaths. They are not babies. They are teens, on dragonback, sent with messages to the great Lords of the Realm. Jacaerys is a perfect example of a successful envoy. He did his job well and secured the support of the Vale and the North (who have the most powerful armies in Westeros).

Lucerys was unlucky to find Aemond at Storm’s End. How was Rhaenyra to know that the psycho would be there or that he would dare break a code of honor, attack and murder a child sent as an envoy?

Alicent clearly didn’t instill any honor and decency in her own sons, regardless how much she preaches those two qualities. Shows what a terrible mother she is.

Did she do as Rhaenyra did before sending Aemond to Storm’s End? Did she tell him that he is to go there as an envoy and not take part in any fighting, because no war has yet been declared? Did she tell him the importance of respecting a code of honor? I doubt it. But even if she had done so, I doubt Aemond would have listened to her now. She should have raised him right when he was a child and told him a few things, like:

1. It’s not ok to hit young girls

2. It’s not ok to insult someone’s recently deceased parents!

3. Throwing the word “bastard” around is dangerous

Oh and…

4. Outright killing an envoy gives the opposing side the right to wage war and spill blood as well!!!

Alicent really is “mother of the year”, isn’t she? Maybe she could have used the time she spent rubbing her feet for Larys’ pleasure to actually educate her children.

So yeah, all the “errors” made will cost the greens greatly. It will cost their entire bloodline.

For all Daemon and Rhaenyra lost themselves, they still won and achieved what they set out to do: they eliminated the greens’ bloodline and ensured the Iron Throne for their own children and descendants for the rest of the Targaryen dynasty.

[horizon-verizon]

The terms offered by the king were generous, Munkun declares in his True Telling. If the princess would acknowledge him as king and make obeisance before the Iron Throne, Aegon II would confirm her in her possession of Dragonstone, and allow the island and castle to pass to her son Jacaerys upon her death. Her second son, Lucerys, would be recognized as the rightful heir to Driftmark, and the lands and holdings of House Velaryon; her boys by Prince Daemon, Aegon the Younger and Viserys, would be given places of honor at court, the former as the king’s squire, the latter as his cupbearer. Pardons would be granted to those lords and knights who had conspired treasonously with her against their true king.   Rhaenyra heard these terms in stony silence, then asked Orwyle if he remembered her father, King Viserys. “Of course, Your Grace,” the maester answered. “Perhaps you can tell us who he named as his heir and successor,” the queen said, her crown upon her head. “You, Your Grace,” Orwyle replied. And Rhaenyra nodded and said, “With your own tongue you admit I am your lawful queen. Why then do you serve my half-brother, the pretender?” Munkun tells us that Orwyle gave a long and erudite reply, citing Andal law and the Great Council of 101. Mushroom claims he stammered and voided his bladder. Whichever is true, his answer did not satisfy Princess Rhaenyra. “A Grand Maester should know the law and serve it,” she told Orwyle. “You are no Grand Maester, and you bring only shame and dishonor to that chain you wear.” As Orwyle protested feebly, Rhaenyra’s knights stripped his chain of office from his neck and forced him to his knees whilst the princess bestowed the chain upon her own man, Maester Gerardys, “a true and leal servant of the realm and its laws.” As she sent Orwyle and the other envoys on their way, Rhaenyra said, “Tell my half-brother that I will have my throne, or I will have his head.”

Fire and Blood, by GRRM, pg 409-410

[i-am-innocent]

Daemon absolutely did wrong with B&C. Because he shouldn't have killed Jaehaerys.

He should have killed the enemy combatant in the room.

Because you know who was an actual grown adult?

Helaena.

Who let herself be crowned? Who accepted the title of Queen and showed her complicity every time she answered to "Your Grace?"

Helaena.

Who actively took part in the book!councils enough to say, "hey, while we're usurping our sister's throne, there's a good chance she has more support than us so maybe we should generously ask her for the throne she has more support for before we try to murder her?

Helaena.

Most importantly, who rode what was, at the time, the second oldest bonded war dragon?

Helaena.

And I'm kinda of getting sick of this whole “Helaena was innocent” narrative.

When a house or a person declares for Team Green. Or worse, they accept the title of Queen of Team Green, they become the enemy of Team Black. You are supporting Aegon's claim to the throne, you're claiming Rhaenyra's title as Queen, and are therefore the enemy.

When Helaena CHOSE to answer to attend that "coronation." When she CHOSE to answer to Your Grace. When she chose to occupy the Red Keep and remain there as the implicit threat that should Rhaenyra press her claim, she would mount her massive war dragon, she was declared an enemy of Team Black.

Her death, and I don't just mean the decision to jump, was a consequence of her own actions.

Your own Action 🤝 Your own Consequence

If Helaena had refused to attend the coronation, refused to answer to Your Grace, had made it publicly known that she would not fight on her massive war dragon and Team Black had just decided to kill her, then yes she would’ve been innocent.

But that’s not the case.

Her massive war dragon was a big reason the Blacks couldn't safely put a stop to the coup right away. Her massive war dragon gave Aemond enough false confidence (because it was false. because when the ravens returned the greens were in for a surprise that really shouldn't have been a surprise) to attack an envoy not even grown.

She's not the only person responsible for his death. She's not the most responsible. But Luke's blood is still on her hands.

Stop comparing Helaena: grown ass queen on a grown ass war dragon to Luke the minor on a baby dragon and claiming that she's somehow more innocent than he was. She wasn’t.

And even if you want to try to convince yourself that her show!version still had no idea what was happening. Doesn't matter. If the enemy is using the threat of force against you, to prevent you from claiming what's yours, you don't ask yourself "but what if the grown ass pilot for their second largest air bomber doesn't understand what she's doing?!"

Luke was a minor even by the standards of that world. He would never be safe had he defected to the faction of the woman who spent his entire life dehumanizing him, teaching her children to dehumanize him, nearly killed him, and assaulted his mother while trying. He doesn’t get to choose who he supports, and yet ends up being murdered by his uncle who felt emboldened in part by the dragonpower behind his cause.

If you're going to protest that “There was no reason to execute Queen Helaena the enemy combatant,” by using the inconvenient fact that she posed a viable threat, even if she did not think of it that way, you need to open your eyes to the reality of the show, which is that regardless of how much you love that grown ass character, it does not make her innocent.

I don’t care how "cute" she comes across to you.

She chose her side, and died for it. However HotD wants to play fast and loose with numbers, she was undeniably a grown ass queen mature enough to understand that. I’m not saying she definitively deserved to be executed, but I won’t be out here claiming she’s innocent when she’s not.

Jaehaerys Targaryen will be murdered in House of the Dragon. He is innocent, but will be killed because he is associated with Team Green. He will be killed as an act of “revenge” because of a situation Helaena chose to put herself and her children in. He is not responsible for any bad blood between Team Green or Team Black, nor is he responsible for the actions of Aegon or Aemond.

But Helaena is. So yes, it's unfair that it was him and not her. It's actually a little stupid on Daemon's part.

In fact, part of me wonders, what if B&C were simply there to justifiably execute "Queen" Helaena: enemy combatant?

What if Jaehaerys panicked and attacked the men acting on the queen's behalf? Daggers are commonly carried after all. And what if B&C were torn about what to do, but then looked at Alicent and remembered the precedent she set:

Children are NOT innocent just because they're children.

What if Blood was just following her example?

Tragic.

Kind of getting sick of this whole “Lucerys was innocent” narrative and that B&C is justified because of Luke’s death.

When a house or a person declares for Team Black, they become the enemy of Team Green. You are supporting Rhaenyras claim to the throne against Aegons and therefore seen as the enemy.

When Lucerys CHOSE and volunteered to fly (because they would be faster than ravens) to Storms end in an attempt to gain support for Rhaenyra, he was declared an enemy of Team Green. His death was a consequence of his own action.

Your own Action 🤝 Your own Consequence

If Luke had refused to go in person, and Team Green had just decided to kill him, then yes he would’ve been innocent. But that’s not the case.

Stop comparing Lucerys to Jaehaerys and claiming that it was a fair exchange. It wasn’t.

Jaehaerys is six years old, probably has no clue what the hell is even going on, he doesn’t get to choose who he supports, and ends up being murdered for something his uncle did.

So people protesting the “there was no reason to kill Jaehaerys” by using Lucerys death as a fair reason, need to open their eyes to the reality of the show, which is that regardless of how much you loved that character, it does not make them innocent to everything.

I don’t care how cute he comes across to you. He chose his side, and died for it. He was mature enough to understand that by 13-14 years old. I’m not saying he definitively deserved to be murdered, because I don’t think he did, but I won’t be out here claiming he’s innocent when he’s not.

———

A justification I am also seeing a lot now, is that “well Jaehaerys is team green by default because he’s Aegons son”

Myrcella Lannister was murdered in Game of Thrones. She was innocent but was killed because she was associated with the Lannisters. She was killed as an act of “revenge” because Oberyn was killed in a situation he chose to put himself in. She was not responsible for any bad blood between the Martells and Lannisters, nor was she responsible for the actions of Cersei or Joffrey.

Jaehaerys Targaryen will be murdered in House of the Dragon. He is innocent, but will be killed because he is associated with Team Green. He will be killed as an act of “revenge” because Lucerys was killed in a situation he chose to put himself in. He is not responsible for any bad blood between Team Green or Team Black, nor is he responsible for the actions of Aegon or Aemond.

So stop with this ridiculousness. What’s to come is not right, it is not justified in any way shape or form, and it will be devastating and sad.