#are you engaging with the meta you’re reblogging or are you just trying to high horse someone cause you read the book?

[iguessitsjustme]

I’m writing this while walking to work so forgive me if it’s not entirely coherent. I think it might benefit some people to have a reminder that books and show/movie adaptations are different. Reading the book might mean you know the framework for the show/movie but it does not make you An Expert on the show/movie.

First and foremost, I’m not going to say don’t post spoilers, but I will so do not go onto someone else’s post and post spoilers. You would not like it if someone came into your house and spoiled things for you. Do not do that to others. It is not only incredibly rude. It is entirely selfish. Which brings me to my next point.

If reading the book enhances your experience, if it’s something you enjoy, I’m glad! I am so incredibly happy for you. It does not make you smarter or inherently more informed than the people that choose not to read for whatever reason.

You might know what happens and have more knowledge about the story as a whole but that does not mean that people that are posting predictions or speculations don’t know what they’re talking about. I know a lot of people that watch these shows have some sort of degree in writing or literature or visual media. Gonna use myself as an example here, I have a degree in writing. I am decent at analysis. I mostly post silly little shitposts or memes but all of my posts are operating from a place of being informed.

I am capable of predicting what’s gonna happen. I am aware of narrative structures. I’m aware of plot devices. I’m aware of the common tropes in the shows I watch. And that doesn’t matter! Because that is entirely Not The Point. I don’t care if I predict accurately. It’s not about the what happens. It’s always about how we get there.

Of all of the shows that are airing and I can pretty much tell you what the ending of each of them is going to be. Even without reading the novels. That does not make them any less enjoyable for me. It makes them even more enjoyable. Cause now I get to watch for the details. I get to watch and see how this show has decided to show the journey of the story. And sometimes how they completely rewrite expectations. Some of the things I have watched have been very, extremely good at subverting tropes and expectations. Things can veer off in directions you don’t expect even if you’ve read the novel. Simply because it’s a different story. It is imposssible to do a 1 to 1 adaptation. As much as we might want it. It is simply not possible.

I have read a few novels that the shows are based on. Every single show has made drastic changes to the source material. So while you might have knowledge of what’s to come in the novel. You might have the ability to spoil everyone for what’s coming, even you can’t be 100% sure until it happens. And condescendingly telling people it’s so obvious when you have future knowledge is incredibly unacceptable.

This has gotten very long and I am actually at work now and should probably actually do my job but I just need to reiterate. Reading the novels is fine! It’s fun! I am genuinely so happy people are reading and enjoying themselves and also enjoying the shows! That is wonderful! But do not ruin or attempt to ruin someone else’s enjoyment simply because you think you know more. Make posts about the differences on your own blog. Talk about spoilers with friends that have also read the novel. But do not go onto a stranger’s post and post spoilers because you might be ruining the media you love for that person without even realizing what you’re doing.

[hellsvestibule]

Actually I’m just going to use the tag “high literary standards here on hells vestibule” from now on If I’m live-blogging a book or writing meta over a couple sentences long.

I will try to tag it that from now on so you can either search or block my long posts if you use a tag blocker? Idk I hope that works. I’m going to try to tag things by title too but I’m still sort of hesitant to put them in any public tag people track so if you really just hate a specific title I’ll try to come up w specific tags for you to block but Its going to take me a bit to concoct specific tags or even find previous posts if its been a while since they were made or anyone reblogged.

I’m going to keep reminding people for a few days then you’re on your own and you Will be forced to look at my long posts (even then I’m never going to liveblog like, 20 posts in a row about something otherwise I’d just make a separate blog. but tbh the most you have to bear in this regard is usually like 5 posts about a book I read before I move on or me over explaining my art or a video game character based on something I’ve read to anyone who asks. Also go ahead and ask me about things you know for a fact I’ve read or talked about before if you’re interested, I like talking about things and engaging w followers. But im keeping it here bc I’m treating it the same as I would the occasional burst reblog of an artist or 20 year old show none of my followers have seen. I don’t want to juggle any more blogs or specifically be known for literary analysis or observations. Also if you really want me to answer a question its better to ask than leave it in the tags or comments where I’m less likely to see or respond. I’m only going to shut you down if you ask me something I’m uncomfortable with or if you ask me about something I know nothing about.

[lotsofletters]

POLOL FAQ:

Q: What is PoLoL/P.L.L.?

A: People of Lots of Letters. Technically, a meta server. Realistically, a meme factory. Currently a few hundred members strong, not everyone in the server needs to be a meta author in the technical sense, as much as someone who enjoys conversations designed to break apart and enjoy the text in a meaningful level. Individuals using the polol tag adhere to a general code of conduct in dictionary and term usage so as to be able to hold fruitful conversations between each other and give followers a meaningful, stable compendium of information to follow. 

Not all members will have perfectly aligned ideas, but as many study the same confirmed source texts and work in matching terms and shared resources on tools like AV Media Study, there will often be a conjoined thread between the content. On the other hand, we just may start yelling about pelicans and seem randomly deranged, so you know. Come for the meta, stay for the memes.

Q: Are your asks open?

A: Yes. Trolls, people foaming at the mouth, etc etc will not be posted. Blatant ass bait will be deleted. Etc etc. Good lord people, find something you actually enjoy.

Q: Are you one of these anti-CW servers/blogs?

A: Some members of PoLoL are parts of various campaigns like EE or TSY, but PoLoL is not itself any of these. Some members have frustrations at the network involving these issues, but this blog is not for that. Ask us about our meta, ask us about our memes, but if you have any CW-boycott questions please submit them to the appropriate blog. Here they will be deleted.

Q: Are you some sort of secret society or cult or whatever the hell the rumor is currently?

A: Yes we worship this thing called the dictionary. Or sometimes swedish dumplings. Maybe pelicans. Or fandom’s just high, I dunno, take your pick. (No. The answer is no, but the memes out of it are delicious.) For what it’s worth, the server is themed after the Men of Letters, which itself is based on hermetic lodges in the canon. We can even give you meta about that! So sometimes we joke around and theme our things after related Occult Orders, but I swear you don’t have to sign a blood pact to join and there is no hypnosis involved (~ you will eat pierogi, you will eat pierogi, you will ~ )

Q: Well then, can I join?

A: Nyes. POLOL used to be completely open doors, but due to fandom severity has become slightly more closed, because like you, we like having our happy spaces! Generally, what it takes to actually join the server is to be engaged with our content or the blogs of active members that can refer you. Basically, we don’t want you here if you’re gonna be a dick breaking up our flow. If you’re noticed to just be a cool person, whether we actively talk to you or not, we may send you an invite. Or, maybe just like, message one of the highly active members, even if you also don’t talk to them a lot. People tend to notice people that are active in their blog orbit. If you’re the kind of person constantly posting things opposite of the spirit of the server or wander up with an empty blog, you’re probably gonna get denied, but generally, like? Yes? Hit us up, we’ll talk.

Q: How many admins are on this account?

A: 

Q: Do I have to be part of the server to like, use the hashtag or post meta?

A: I mean, no, not really. If we do see a large sum of people starting to use the tag for content contradictory to the actual intent (things that do not use the proper structure, definitions, etc), we may ask you to stop. On the other hand, if you post some crack that feels up our alley and tag it, we’ll probably reblog it whether you’re in the server or not (and may end up with that invite link mentioned above.)

Q: Does your blog have like, a masterpost of content?

A: Not yet, that’ll probably eventually come, but we’re going to try to start with a fairly solid tagging system to begin, including by tumblr url of member, episode, character or pairing, and more.

...More q/a coming eventually, I’m sure.

[alienheartattack]

I understand that feel. The last time I brought up my frustration with writing and fandom recognition, I got lectured that I should write for myself (which I already do) and shouldn't care about whether or not I get a response when posting. I hope you don't get the same because it sucked!

ETA: I want to preface this that I’m not trying to call out anyone, this is me expressing my anxieties and insecurities about writing. The last thing I want to do is make readers feel like they’re not doing enough because no one is obligated to react to fanwork, and I know a lot of you struggle with mental health, just as I do. I’m just having a bad brain day today and needed to vent. (Classic anxiety move to barf out an anxiety post and then get anxious about inadvertently hurting someone’s feelings with my anxiety barf. Having a brain is stupid.)

Thanks for reaching out. It’s good to know that other people feel the same way. Writing is such a difficult process and I think people’s first instinct is to keep all those anxious and uncomfortable feelings inside, but that just leads to more anxiety and more negative feelings around writing. One of the reasons I stopped writing fanfiction in the first place is because I started feeling like no one really gave a shit if I was putting out work or not, and when I got comments they’d be weirdly demanding about continuing stories that were marked complete. (Those were mostly from FFnet.) It felt like people wanted to engage with other people’s work with gush posts and metas and fanart, but not mine. Eventually I got in my head about it and stopped wanting to write because whatever I was doing, it clearly wasn’t enough to make people care.

Whoever lectured you is a jerk. Writing is so intensely personal but it’s also a communal act, a sharing of ideas. If we didn’t want people to engage, we wouldn’t post. (Almost all of my fanfiction pre-2014 exists only on my computer, because I really was only writing for myself.) It hurts to pour so much time and effort and energy into something with little or no result. No one wants to feel like they’re shouting into a void. I struggle with being a fanfiction writer generally because fics are always going to be less popular than fanart and other visual fan media because the latter are easier and faster to consume, so we’re already working at a disadvantage compared to fanartists and graphic makers. It’s human to seek out responses. It’s human to want someone to read your work and like it. It’s human to be upset when that doesn’t happen.

Ironically I don’t get a ton of engagement on here, at least in terms of messages. I got a few messages welcoming me back to Tumblr and that was really great. When I announce that I’m taking prompts then I’ll get a few, but other than that my inbox is quiet. I can’t even remember the last time I had an anti or some other troll try to bother me. Once in a while I get someone reaching out to say that they like my work and read my stories over and over, and that just makes my entire week. Sometimes, if I’m feeling particularly discouraged about my writing, I’ll go back and reread comments on my fics for a little boost. (Watching the ship have a horny meltdown in real time when I first posted Another Taste of Pomegranate was legitimately one of the high points of my life.)

I’m also not the best with commenting and such on fics myself, so I feel like a hypocrite when I’m like “waaaaahhhh please pay attention to my woooork” but I’m trying to be more active in that regard. And I feel like it’s unfair of me to expect anything from anyone, especially during covid times when everyone is already stretched so thin. It’s just really hard to pour your heart and soul into your writing and not get feedback, whether you’re in the process of writing and you want reassurance from a beta reader or you’re putting out stories and no one seems to notice. The process of writing is terribly lonely because it’s just you and your thoughts and your words. It’s natural to want a connection past that.

tl;dr, Writing is really difficult and emotional and so am I! If you’re a reader, please consider leaving a comment on a fic or reblogging it with a comment or tags. If there’s an author you love, tell them. Even if you’re just keysmashing or posting something like “I love this” or “fave,” it’ll make someone’s day.

[mrs-nate-humphrey]

Love that last ask about the reboot and your response! I do like the writing from the original series but why can’t they do that but make sure there are people from marginalised groups within the group of writers too so that things don’t get...icky...? I dunno the right word. Also, I feel like it’s too early to have a reboot...like the original only ended 11 years ago...maybe give it like at least 20 years since it finished before doing a reboot? It’s also gonna hurt my bi heart and soul knowing that the poc and queer characters are gonna be...republicans...I want that from the awful white straights (who we still kinda love but also kinda hate) from the 2000s not these gen z kids who are fluid and don’t know what a landline is! I also kinda don’t want the reboot at all...like I’ll watch it and if it’s good then that’s great but I don’t want it...I want GG to stay as it was - pretty crappy with kinda awful characters (except Jenny & Eric!) but you watch the show anyway bc it’s nostalgic and you kinda like it...you know?

haha, i'm glad you liked that response! i saw you reblogged it and i was like :D

i thought they did, actually? a few months ago i remember seeing an article about safran wanting a more diverse writers' room and giving a woman of colour (i think a black woman, but im only about 60% sure) a very senior position or something along those lines - which is one of the reasons i was like 'oooh im excited', haha. but a few days ago i was looking for that article because i wanted to send it to someone and i ...... couldn't find it?? so i have no idea what happened - i'm pretty sure i didn't imagine it or make it up, but it's weird that the article isn't there anymore. maybe it was a tentative thing, or maybe she wasn't REALLY a part of the writers room and was a consultant/sensitivity reader kind of person. or maybe the article just got paywalled. like i have no idea what's happening behind the scenes for the reboot - it could be a super inclusive and fun environment! but that doesn't change the way safran's the one calling the shots, or like, the fact that he is the person we all know is in charge, or whatever. (i have such a limited understanding of how tv shows are written, despite a friend spending actual hours telling me the ins and outs of it all, RIP.)

also GOSH what you're saying about the reboot and gen z kids reminds me a little of some meta i saw about the propaganada in the falcon and the winter soldier. that is not my fandom, but it IS something my sister's into, and since she lets me talk to her about gossip girl even when she'd rather be doing anything else, im always down for her to tell me stuff about media she likes even if it's not something im super into. but basically i was looking up TFATWS so that whenever my sister watches it, i can follow that conversation if she wants to talk about it, and i saw this REALLY GOOD POST about how marvel is essentially using their movies to advertise to the viewerbase. and it made me go, "shit, isn't gossip girl doing that too?"

gossip girl literally CHANGED trends in the late 00s. fashion was shaped by it. designers were so excited to send their stuff to the show for blair and serena to model. what is that if not an advertisement!! what is this show if not a vehicle for capitalism!! and obviously, i think you can still have fun watching it and still go "ooh i want to dress like blair waldorf" or whatever and there's no harm in it. but i think it's just a thing of like, the way the show is built is going to actively try and cater to kids who are currently in high school, because that's what gossip girl has always been and likely will always be. and we're sadly too old to naturally get it. if kids on the reboot are using tiktok i'm going to stare at myself in the mirror and wonder when i became 50 years old, lmaoooo.

but i think that's a big part of what isn't doing it for me: the pop culture of it all! i would've HATED watching gg when it was airing. keeping aside that i would've been too young to engage with it the way i do now (i bet nate/jenny would've been my otp or something, which, no shade at people whose otp is NJ, just saying this to say that i have changed as a person so much over the years, hahaha) - keeping aside that obvious thing, i love watching gg now and being like, 'oh this show is so dated' every time one of them smack their little flip phones shut. i can't take blair and chuck's wedding seriously because the moment "it's time" starts playing i'm like "oh wow this is so 2012 hahahaha" which.... is obviously not how it would've felt if i'd been watching it while it aired.

anyway. i watch gossip girl the way people watch period dramas; all "ah, times long past, wow, this is redundant now." i watch gossip girl, watch the flip phone shut, and go, "oh, how much things have changed."

[dimples-of-discontent]

Thoughts on “Destiel is Real.”

So, I’ve been relatively scarce of late (except for when I went bonkers with reblogging deadly Cockles content...which I think I blacked out from b/c it was like being waaayyyy too high and it’s all their fault) because, if y’all don’t know, I have stage 4 breast cancer and am in chemo. I’m tolerating it really well but it takes a surprising amount of time, actually, especially since I’m still working 80% time and also living alone so doing house stuff etc. 

This is all to say that I’m weighing in on things belatedly a lot. Like, I do still want to analyze the Cockles JIB panel as a whole b/c, oh my, was there a lot there. But today I will settle for this piece of it. I apologize if this is reduplicating what smart folks said elsewhere right when it happened. I was also off Twitter to avoid having it bring me down so I might just be really unaware. But as soon as this moment happened I was like, “oh man we’re gonna argue about this for like 84 years.” So here’s my small contribution on what this reminded me of.

To me, listening to Jensen and watching him engage the crowd, inspired a lot of anxiety b/c it did definitely seem like he was pissed off. I just couldn’t tell with what or who, especially given firsthand context from some folks in the room like @bluestar86​ who wrote this account: https://twitter.com/bluestar861/status/1130255687290937344?s=21 about the general positivity Jensen and Misha had shown earlier (which is why Misha mentioned the shirt) and how the energy in the room was almost entirely positive. I totally believe that. But it didn’t reconcile easily with what I felt I saw from Jensen.

Until I remembered SDCC 2011. The one where Misha had been fired and all of them knew but none of the fans do. I wrote a long meta on that panel that I’m actually super happy with so maybe check it out? Anyway, this is how I described some of the dynamics:

The way everyone is sitting at this table isolates Sera and the body language from Jared and Jensen is openly hostile. Jensen especially pushes himself as far away as possible, defensively crosses his arms, leans away, doesn’t make any eye contact. Jared is also pissed and is functionally shielding Misha with his body while he does the first Cas question. Both of them are very protective and Jensen is more than a little hostile. They also both keep egging the audience on in their love for Cas/Misha, as when Jensen shouts “YEAH!” in affirmation of audience shrieks about the character. They want to show Sera what a piss poor decision it was to take Misha away from the fans…and from them. Whatever else you see happening these are some amazing friends.  

So, we had a remarkably angry Jensen at this panel and he was angry specifically because the network had made what he considered--both professionally and personally--to be a fucking terrible decision. But he couldn’t say that. He’s got NDAs and stuff to worry about. So instead he settled, among other things, from egging the audience on to show how much they loved and wanted more Castiel. 

Now I’m not saying the correlation is 1-1 with Destiel. But I am suggesting a thought experiment where something similar could be going on. And by “something similar” I mean “Jensen has inside knowledge about a thing the network has decided that he thinks is fucking stupid and that will hurt the fandom.” Like, oh for example, they’re not moving Destiel out of the subtext.

Additional fuel for this fire. Many have speculated that it’s network president Mark Pedowitz who’s the blocker. Jensen, earlier in the panel, asks the audience to applaud Pedowitz. That’s weird and he’s never done it before. True, Jared was talking about how Pedowitz says that they set examples for other shows and that Pedowitz is complimenting them on it so it was at least that in part. But Jensen is MASTERFUL at throwing shade while appearing to be doing the correct, professional thing. Witness his comments about Bob Singer and last year’s S13 finale. He’s done it with Eugenie and Sera too and probably others I don’t know about. Having the audience applaud Pedowitz if he knows something negative about Pedowitz--something the audience won’t like and that will actively hurt many of them--has a major bite of irony that I feel Jensen is perfectly capable of trying to engineer. (Or maybe there hasn’t been a final decision but he knows it doesn’t look good and why. Don’t lose hope! This is just speculation and a thought experiment.)

I’m going to put the JIB analysis under a cut, since it’s long and has lots of images. It ends with “The most similar behavior I saw was Jensen angrily getting the audience to cheer for something, even doing the same hand-raising gesture. In 2011 it was Castiel (”Go on! Show Sera how much you love the character she killled!”) and this time it was Destiel (”Go on! Show the network how much you love the ship they won’t textualize!”). That’s what made me think, initially, that he may know something about plans for Destiel that a) makes him mad, b) that he considers a bad decision by the network, c) that he thinks that audience will be hurt by.”

Anyway,

If you watch the JIB panel (starting about 12 mins in) you see, first, that Jensen wants Misha not to bring it up. He raises his hand at Misha which I first thought was him being like “shhhhhh don’t bring that up!” but which on repeat viewing I think was him actually just trying to get Misha to shut up so he could literally try to understand what she was saying. Once the audience reacts to Misha’s comment these are their faces:

Jared is absolutely looking at Misha like, “dude, why did you have to go and do that? You just threw a live grenade onstage.” Jensen is hamming it up gesturing at the audience to scream louder. 

Jared changes his face to “well, when you’re right, you’re right! What are you gonna do.”

Here’s Jensen. He’s looking grumpy. Now, is it fake grumpy, a recognized and favored persona that he has. Or is it actually grumpy? Or is it both”

I think it’s both. But I also think he looks sad. And concerned. Like, on behalf of the audience not for him. Now you can say I’m projecting if you want--this is all total rampant speculation--but look at his eyes. I think he’s upset that he has to talk about this at all (since he knows a little about the fandom conflict it sets off) but there’s something else. 

He pauses for a good, long time looking at the audience responding. And according to Saz and others the response was HUGELY POSITIVE! So why does he then announce into the mic with a grumpy fake laugh and what I honestly have to call sarcasm, “Destiel is real!” 

Note that Misha is not worried by this. If Jensen were actually legitimately furious I think Misha would look a little worried. But instead he looks amused and curious about where this is going.

This is Jensen asking “Is it?” for the first time. He looks intentionally confused - that’s the bit he’s doing. 

Here’s Jensen after the audience starts to audibly yell “Nooooo!!” His face says “WHAAAAAAT!?”

People then yell “yes” to drown them out and he asks, “Where?”

Second “where?”. Maybe he’s trying to get them to say “subtext” - a word the cast has great familiarity with and which was used in “Fan Fiction” and which they can joke around a lot about. That’s my guess. Maybe he has a subtext joke set up he wants to do with Misha. (Remember his tweet to Misha during “Fan Fiction: “you keep your subtext to yourself. I’m not that kind of girl. Wait...”)

They don’t - at least not clearly. Someone in the front row says, “Nowhere.” Misha says, “Help” (after mouthing something at someone in the audience that is probably “I’m sorry about this.” Jensen checks on Misha BUT disregards the fact that he’s looking over at the question-asker (who didn’t even ASK a Destiel question, just wear a shirt she liked) and asks “Where?” AGAIN.

Misha then takes things in hand and reaches out to tell Jensen, “don’t get into a fight with these people.” Jared is making a “Yikes!” face at the person in the first row who is continually yelling “Nowhere!”. 

Jensen does sit down, but he’s mad. He’s really tense and it takes him a while to shake it off. 

Who’s he tense with? The most obvious answer is the audience but let’s consider a couple things. 1) The audience was giving a mixed answer, including and sometimes more loudly the “Nowhere!” that you would think Jensen would want to hear IF he were angry/tense about the “Destiel is real” shirt or the audience’s support of it. 2) He was demanding consensus and an answer to where it was real EITHER to have them say “nowhere”--which they did so why not just stop?--OR to get them to say something like “subtext” to lead them into either a question or a bit about it.

So why keep pushing? Hoping to change the answer? Hoping to find consensus? Or maybe just hoping to get them to make a lot of noise about it for a long time (at which he succeeded). Now, Jensen is famously inconsistent about Destiel and also famously different onstage, especially for J2 audiences...though this, the most Holy Gay panel of all the panels, isn’t a place he’d shy away from, e.g. “What would Dean and Cas do on a trip to Rome? Everything I think of right now is inappropriate.” 

Which brings us back to “who’s he tense with”? Could it be only part of the audience? Which part? The part yelling “nowhere” or the part yelling whatever positive things they were yelling? I’m going to hypothesize, based on a LOT of other stuff that I’ve written about, that he’s annoyed with the negative folks spoiling it for everyone with their “nowheres” and is trying to get the positive folks to drown them out and give him a good answer he can run with. 

The fact that nothing coherent emerges is actually what gets him annoyed. And, by extension, the volume and persistence of that small part of the audience, which lets people like Pedowitz shoot down the idea of textual Destiel as something the viewers “don’t want,” annoys the living shit out of him because he sees the viewers all the time and knows that a majority of them either are ok with or actively want textual Destiel.  I imagine him thinking something along the lines of, “Why can’t these nice people just have what they want? It’s b/c of assholes like you.”

He definitely lets his emotions get the better of him. He was already not in the best place, thanks to circumstances I hope to write about later but which boil down to having his special panel with Misha (that he was visibly psyched for from the moment he got onstage, “I always have so much fun with you!”) taken away because he got some awkward wood from being choked and straddled. So with that grumpiness he was primed not to make the best decisions. He gets aggressive and confrontational when he’s pissed, which is a thing I don’t love about him, even though it’s very easy to see why, and maybe this was just his battleground of choice. 

To get back to the thought experiment about whether this is like SDCC 2011, though, I think it could be. I think it’s far more complex, given all the discourse surrounding Destiel and Jensen’s own sexuality. (Here’s a post I wrote in response to a question about Jensen and Destiel and bi!Dean that asked whether I thought he experienced them as about himself and Misha.) It’s tough, b/c each piece of evidence could go both ways (ha). Either mentioning Pedowitz for applause is excellent shade or total sincerity. Either Jensen is mad at the pro-Destiel audience and trying to get them to admit that they’re wrong, or he’s mad at the antis and trying to get them drowned out. 

The most similar behavior I saw was Jensen angrily getting the audience to cheer for something, even doing the same hand-raising gesture. In 2011 it was Castiel (”Go on! Show Sera how much you love the character she killled!”) and this time it was Destiel (”Go on! Show the network how much you love the ship they won’t textualize!”). That’s what made me think, initially, that he may know something about plans for Destiel that a) makes him mad, b) that he considers a bad decision by the network, c) that he thinks that audience will be hurt by.

Given his shift in attitude overall and the mood of the room as described by attendees, it seems plausible to me that his engagement was a performance, using the audience, of what it is the viewers ACTUALLY want. But it could also just have been a grouchy Jensen taking it out on an old, familiar punching bag - the topic he never wants to discuss onstage - Destiel.

[korranguyen]

So I’m going to break the theme of my blog and speak directly to fandoms on something critical here, cause I’ve just gotta say this once:

If you don’t want to take part in discourse, don’t engage in it.

Simple as that.

For every opinion or interpretation that you have, there will always be people— maybe up to 7.66 billion— who disagree with you. That’s how communication works; that’s how being a human works: you share your ideas with the people around you, expressing what you have to say to other people and eliciting other people to share how they feel in return. Sometimes people will agree with what you have to say. Sometimes people won’t. Because guess what? Your word is not, and will never be, the end-all-be-all of discussion. Because the world does not revolve around you.

For those of you who are American, I’m sure you’ve grown familiar with that kind of “political conversation” by now: the kind where people scream what they believe with zero intention of negotiating with what the others have to say, and then the other side screams louder, and louder, and louder, and does anything get done? Did anyone drop their swords when the radical lefts declared “my body, my choice; if you do not have a uterus, you do not have a valid opinion”? Or when the devout Christians said “God dictates life; abortion is a murderous sin on all accounts?” Pfft, no! Because different people; different opinions and beliefs. If your outlook in life is “my way or the highway”, well... that’s how we get LA traffic at rush hour.

If you find that you do not want to provoke discourse, here is some advice:

Don’t push your opinion on a public platform in the first place, particularly if it is controversial.

When you do choose to express your opinion, don’t be sarcastic, negative, or otherwise inflammatory, and don’t attack other generalized groups of people. If your language is hostile, the chances of people becoming hostile enough to take time out of their day to protest against you are much, much higher.

Steer clear of discussion-based reblog chains. If you hear a conversation in earshot about something you have no interest in, why in the world would you walk over and join it? Mind your business and keep scrolling. I did the same thing all the time in high school when people started Snapchatting, glamorizing their stress levels, or gossiping about other people’s bullshit. Walk away.

The previous three points are all tips to avoid rousing people into sending you their own opinions with you (and thus starting “discourse”) in the first place. But if you still want to express yourself, that’s great!— but know that, whether in person or online, when you say something, you will always... run the risk of people responding to you, so to speak.

Last, but the opposite of least, there’s still a way to avoid discourse even if you completely disregard everything I just said: ignore your dissenters! The great thing about being on social media is that everyone you speak to is an online entity that disappears the moment you hit the power button on your mobile phone or slam your laptop shut. So if someone reblogs your angry rant with an angrier response, ignore it. If someone walks into your inbox trying to provide a counterpoint to your point, if you don’t have the energy to be open-minded at the moment, ignore it. Nobody is forcing you to respond— or to even be on Tumblr. Go take a hike. Literally. Or call your mom and tell her you love her. I don’t know; just do something that involves making positive connections with the world.

Point is, you can’t possibly cast opinionated meta out there, especially on controversial subjects, and expect discourse not to happen. You can’t expect everyone to respect your opinion when you’re unwilling to do the same. The only person whose thoughts, actions, and beliefs are under your control is yourself, so if you’re unhappy with the content you’re surrounded with, take charge of that situation in the only way one single person can: by reflecting inward and managing your own behavior to make the best of the choices you do have.

(I would just like to point out— due to the inflammatory connotations the pronoun “you” often brings— that this post is not personally directed towards anyone in particular. Just a reflection on some fandom behavior I’ve seen since I’ve joined Tumblr that I’d like to share once and for all. Cheers!)

[inevitably-johnlocked]

Hello Steph!! 💙💙💙Just wanted to get it off my chest; sometimes I get really really... I dunno, agitated? I want to share my Johnlock fics (my work, my passion, writing is my oxygen rn)... and it's already up, but... I'm new to the fandom and not many people see it, or comment, or know me (especially not the old johnlockers and that makes me sad) and I feel... insecure and worried and... There's so many incredible writers I adore and admire and... I feel I'll never be good enough...

Hi Nonny!

*HUGS* Aw, I’m so sorry that you’re having a hard time getting an audience… I TOTALLY feel you there, as it took me two or three years (I can’t remember it was so long ago) before people saw my meta, and I’m still trying to get my art out there to the masses. Unfortunately, it’s all about luck and patience. Is it fair that some people can just come to the site and 3 days later are popular? No, of course not, and it is frustrating that some of us have to work harder to be seen than others, but in the end, it really is just luck, unfortunately. 

All I can honestly suggest, Lovely, is to just do it for YOU because YOU like doing it. If you’re putting out a thing just to be popular, you’re just going to burn yourself out and beat yourself up when you don’t make it. Write a story because you want to see that story in the fandom, and when you post it, TAG ANYBODY not because you want popularity but because you want people to read it. Saying that you only want popular or more established people to notice you is really… mm, I don’t want to say elitist (I can’t think of the word I’m looking for), but it comes off like you are only here for the popularity, and while I GET THAT, honestly, I really do because I did the same thing, never discount the newer and smaller followers of your work… honestly, the smaller bloggers are the ones more likely to have time to engage with you and to offer you valuable critique and insight: remember there are more smaller blogs than big ones, and they’re the ones who are going to help you get your stories out there more often than not. 

Once I started doing my stuff for ME, and discovered I actually do enjoy writing and interacting with people, did I stop feeling like I was unworthy in this fandom. I know, I’m not really one to talk, given I have a moderately well-known nameamongst us all, but seriously, Lovely you’ll be happier when you’re doing it for you. My tips to you are:

Engage with other bloggers, whoever they may be, and comment or reblog their posts. This gets people to see your name.

Don’t be afraid to tag people in your posts, and ALWAYS share your stories you post on AO3… you NEED to share them on other platforms otherwise people won’t know they’re there. AO3 has a “Share” button on EVERY story you post, so USE THAT LIKE IT’S YOUR BEST FRIEND.

Don’t be afraid to contact the people you admire and love off-Anon. I promise you, I’m friends with a few of the well-known writers and artists on here, and they are the sweetest and softest beans ever and they squee and LOVE knowing how much you admire their work, because they surprisingly DON’T hear it a lot because people are afraid to contact them. CONTACT THEM, SEND THEM A NOTE. They may not respond, but I can guarantee you that they are hugging those comments and may keep them for a rainy day when they themselves are feeling down. 

DO THE WORK FOR YOU. If you love what you’re doing, that will show in your work, and it will improve its quality immensely. And if people compliment and praise your work, accept it and don’t self deprecate (something I’m very bad at doing myself, b/c of my low self-esteem). It WILL help you know that you are doing well.

Also, learn to spot the difference between “critique” and “useless shitty comment that helps you in no way”. Critiques can sometimes seem negative, but in the end they make you feel like you want to improve and usually point out some things you can work on in a constructive and positive way. Useless faff makes you feel like shit, but DON’T let them get to you!!! Seriously, EVERYONE gets the trolls, and the best way to put up with them is to hold your head high and not engage them. 

I love you Nonny, and please, send me some of your work either by tags or chat and I can help you promote it! And remember you are amazing, and it will take some time, but stay positive, have fun, and just be yourself

[haljathefangirlcat]

still thinking about that “we Have To Talk about how quips are ruining fandom by destroying meta and turning all fic into shitposts” post @ms-demeanor wrote a great rebuttal to, and about the other posts she wrote about it and about the You’re Doing Fandom Wrong attitude in it, and about the notes on those posts. not gonna reblog or reply to any of those because my thoughts are admittedly kind of random and jumping from place to place and probably OT to the point of the discussion, but you know. still thinking.

so, uh. not trying to start wank or anything but enjoy the ranting that got way out of hand under the cut.

so, like... that one “we can’t just block everyone who quips and shitposts because some of these people also write actual meta but then they unfortunately go back to Not Engaging With Canon by writing quippy shitpost-y stuff” line, or however it was actually phrased? besides the blatant entitlement with the “you have to fandom ONLY in ways I like, I can’t just engage with the part of the content you create that I’m interested in and scroll past the rest” thing (which kinda reminds me of the whole “you can’t CNTW on some of your fics, I should be able to read ALL of your fics” thing, in a way) and the ”I refuse to curate my fandom experience and I’ll make it some stranger’s problem” thing (which... reminds me of a few other things, but tbf it has probably been around since the very first days of fandom), what if someone doesn’t even see meta and quips/shitposts as fundamentally different and mutually exclusive approaches to fandom? what if they see them as just two ways to be interested in a specific fandom and interact with it, and maybe even closely linked together, so going from one to another is actually very, very easy for them? hell, what if they (gasp!) even mix quips and meta together sometimes?

I have a few posts about what I think Baran bo Odar and Jantje Friese might have been doing with mythological references and themes in Dark, and about what I got from the series finale. some are meme-like, phrased in a joking tone, probably even shitpost-y? another one is literally just a gifset plus me having intense Feels in the tags, and the last one is an edit of the kind I’ve seen people complain about as “those cringey unoriginal tumblr aesthetics that all look the same” in at least a couple of occasions. does that automatically mean I only wanted to “win” at fandom (with my hard-earned prize being... a handful of notes in a fandom that’s not even that big compared to others) and that I haven’t actually spent probably way too much time thinking about the significance of Martha’s Ariadne play as a commentary on character interactions/plot/narrative themes (and honestly still do from time to time), or that I don’t occasionally read the captions under other people’s gifsets and suddenly feel very much enlightened about why the Ariadne play mentions the myth of the Flood of all things? that I didn’t start reading posts and comments and reviews and theories about the series finale as soon as I finished watching it? that, just because I didn’t write 10K+ words of Perfectly Serious Seriousness about all that stuff, I simply refused to Engage With The Text? 

... and if I said that I feel a little irrationally self-conscious at the idea of writing down all of my (often rambling, sometimes jumbled) thoughts about a series that to me actually does feel very deep and complex, so adding memes and humor to that or finding different means to put my ideas out there makes me feel more comfortable expressing myself while also taking off the (admittedly made-up) pressure of having to write a whole coherent essay where I have to find a clear and explicit way to explain where every single thought comes from and how it leads to the next like I’m gonna get graded on it? or that a lot of those thoughts stem from memories of spending five years of high school translating and analysing ancient Greek poetry and reading and watching and discussing every available interpretation and reinterpretation of it from Nietzsche to Vernant to Dürrenmatt to Christa Wolf to Pasolini to a lot of others and from certain things in Dark violently hurtling me back to those times without even asking for permission, so a part of my self-consciousness is actually “I probably don’t actually know/remember enough about this to base a whole in-depth analysis on it even though I do think there’s something there” and another part is “shit I’m too lazy to dig through all of my old textbooks and homework and additional readings to hunt for the thing I feel the desperate need to reference or figure out who might have said it, so no extended explanation here either”? I guess in the end it would all boil down to “there’s an amount of effort and physical and mental energy I’m willing to put into fandom but I also have limits to stop something that makes me feel happy from becoming a chore”, which. considering the whole “you have to put all your resources into constantly pouring out 100% serious meta and nothing else because that’s what I like, no deviations allowed” thing? yeah, I can see saying stuff like that would still make me a blight upon fandom. and/or Not Engaging.

which, I realize, it’s a thing I keep coming back to. but that’s because I really, really, really hate it? seriously, what even counts as Engaging With The Text correctly? not shitposts, and not quips either, apparently. Regardless of the fact that humor and crack have existed in fandom since forever and that it’s actually not uncommon AT ALL for them to be born out of looking at canon from different angles, pointing out whatever the fan in question finds surreal/strange/implausible/convoluted/awkward/just kinda funny about it. 

also, not canon divergence/what if fics motivated not by a desire to “fix” something that made us feel bad when it happened in canon but by a desire to actually fix what we felt was objectively a poor writing choice from the author, because we shouldn’t Engage by analysing the text to criticize it or to think over how and why certain aspects of it don’t work for us or how we think the structure of the text itself could be modified or even improved, we should Engage by... writing meta and/or writing canon-compliant fics with perhaps a little allowance for slightly-to-the-left-of-canon-compliant missing moments fics, I guess? 

from what I’ve gathered from reading other fandom discussion some time ago, AUs are also out, especially Modern/No Powers AUs, because those are always just an excuse to slap your fave’s name on your OC/disguise your original fiction as fanfic to get comments/ignore all that’s interesting about canon to write yet another dumb syrupy high school or coffee shop AU, even if I’m honestly not sure what kind of AUs people are even reading to never get to the “there’s no supernatural threat so let’s focus entirely on the fucked-up family dynamics and blatant mental issues in a world where you can’t just ignore them by marrying off your daughter or sending your son to be someone’s squire” AUs or the “this is pretty much what happens in canon but adding new dimensions and different outlooks on the themes by moving everything to a new context” AUs. seriously, I could rec you a pretty great “this guy would be a horrible father and treat his children horribly in any world, it’s not just the feudal society around him, it’s him as a person” AU and that’s literally just the first thing that came to my mind. but, hey, maybe Engaging is only engaging with the canon plot and setting and nothing else, what do I know.

... fuck, thinking about it, I’m not even sure if by “not shitpost and not quips” I should even mean humor/crack? because it’s not like the OP was clear about it in any way? maybe it’s just all that’s weird and tropey and not-canon-compliant? I can see the “everybody gathers in the main character’s stuff to smoke weed and weird shit happens” fic I got a chuckle out of some time ago being one of the dreaded tumblr-born shitpost fics that are supposedly ruining fandom by ensuring that fans stop thinking (?), but what about the “everything is the same but this one character is a catboy, not for any particular reason but just because” fic I’m currently following and loving? people have been joking and shitposting about catboys a lot on tumblr lately (I distinctly remember that the last catboy joke to pop up on my dash was the “I’m your catboy gf and I’m stuck in a wall” one...) and finding an always-a-catboy!AU initially got an amused smile out of me, so is the mere premise enough to make the fic just a joke/just taking a trope and running off with it/just part of a shallow trend? even when the author literally goes “oh shit just realized this is all a metaphor for neuodivergence and masking” in the story notes? unless writing a character who’s never explicitly stated to be neurodivergent in canon as a being literally or metaphorically neurodivergent in your fic is always shallow projecting or posturing issuefic... instead of, y’know, looking closely at the text and Engaging with it by interpreting it that way....

I feel all this ranting/venting might end up plunging into Why We Slash discussion territory now, so I better stop here.

anyway, in short, good to know I’ve been in fandom for years yet I’ve always been just a Fake Fan who Can’t Think and is constantly Doing It Wrong (by Not Being Transformative Enough, possibly). gonna do my best to stay exactly like that in the future <3

[geekout-f-t-w]

1) addressing this b/c as far as I could tell I was the only dissenting opinion in 4100 notes

2) I had no problem with a “heehee AU of Jensen playing Sam!” headcanon. I do have a problem when you apply current show character analysis to said headcanon without taking into consideration that everything about the character is different. Objectively that doesn’t work.

3) people posting about bad takes is a way to stop the spread of, or bring attention to (intentional or unintentional) posts that involve queerphobic language or other inappropriate topics. For example— your AU version seemed to assume that everything for Sam would remain written the same way. For arguments sake (tho it’s objectively impossible) we’ll say that’s true. If you believe Sam is straight when played by Jared, why would he be queer if played by Jensen? What is it about Jensen that makes you default assume queer? This toes the line at assumptions about Jensen that cross a line into RPF vs fanfic and yeah, publicly analyzing real people for the purpose of making a fictional character queer doesn’t sit right with me. Especially if they’re not out. So yes— I’m going to speak up b/c I want people to confront those ideas and try to see why they could be a problem. Which leads me to-

4) tone via text is hard to discern, and while yeah a couple lines in my reply were said with some snark, most of it was genuinely explaining why the headcanon is fine but why the 16 point character analysis was founded on false assumptions and faulty logic. You’re an acafan, yeah? Then you should know that the character we’re presented with on the aired episode is formed by the writer, story editor, showrunner, actor, director, editor, and then finally approved by the network exec. Changing one of those moving parts changes the character. That’s what I took issue with. You took a headcanon but then presented meta and character analysis based on something that would no longer exist if your headcanon was assumed true. This isn’t me being mean it just... is.

5) this one I take a bit personally b/c again, I was the only dissenting opinion in 4100 notes. And yes, you’re saying this as a blanket statement at fandom but I’m going to respond as if this is specifically about me. if there’s no “correct” way to fandom why did you write this whole post about how to interact within fandom? Sure, I could have done my reblog differently. I could have been worse or better. I could have sub posted, or took screenshots and blasted the post. I replied directly b/c I believe in addressing the person I’m discussing as opposed to sneaking around being sub posts/blocks/etc b/c to me that’s just more respectful. Sure, not everything is an invitation to debate but engaging in debate shouldn’t also be met with a knee jerk “they’re disagreeing with me therefore I’m being ATTACKED”. I never claimed to have the high ground and I didn’t attack you with malice, nor was my tone meant to be condescending. You chose to ignore what my post actually said and assume I was “shitting” on you. Assuming any and all dissent is an attack for no reason isn’t it. I’m still not even angry, nor judgmental, or any of that.

Anyway...

It’s really disquieting how combative some people are when it comes to fandom. And I don’t necessarily mean things like anti disc horse or dealing with fans who treat queer interpretations and queer shipping like some dirty secret. I get why things get combative in those instances, because ultimately it’s not about the fandom thing itself, 90% of the time. There’s far more at stake in a conversation about queer representation or purity culture than a headcanon.

But when it comes to things like just…not vibing with someone else’s AU ideas, or headcanons, or character interpretations? There’s literally no reason to get all up in arms about it like you’re solving a problem by telling them how bad their take is. You’re not solving a problem, you’re creating one where one didn’t exist before.

Keep reading

[violet-vernet]

so, you may be aware that i’ve been over here by myself, quietly working through the stages of fandom grief for some time now.  while i was out on hiatus and/or popping in and out of tumblr at a casual distance, so so many folks in fandom moved on.  my feed went all over the place, which wasn’t helping me engage with what i was reading, and was making it hard to reblog much of anything at all.  it pushed me even further away, for a little while.

hopefully, you’ll be happy to know that i’m at a point where i can overcome that inertia a little, and have started going through my follow list and interacting with the posts of people i want to see more of in my feed. hi, charming folks that I follow!  (side note, this turns out to be a LOVELY way to meet and signal boost your own neighbors, you should try it yourself.)  i’ve also unfollowed some folks that had really just gone in a different direction than i have, and if you’re one of those people I want you to know it wasn’t personal in any way, I just need to focus what is really a ridiculously high and unworkable number of posts bombarding me every second, into a more manageable list. godspeed, and may we meet again one day.

anyway, that’s what’s going on in an admin sort of capacity.  meta type thoughts continue to develop as well, and if anything i’m more convinced than ever that the game is still on, but that’s a post for another day.

[smallforone-blog]

Rules

Attention!:

Some of my muse’s thoughts and behaviors are problematic. He is a victim of emotional neglect and sexual abuse, from a toxic household, and has developed deviant sexual and social tendencies in response to this trauma. Notably, he exhibits some narcissistic and sociopathic traits, has a poor/flawed understanding of appropriate sexual behavior, enjoys manipulating people, mocks/criticizes/verbally abuses others especially when stressed/defensive, possesses low empathy, and passes blame to excuse his behavior. Depending on when in his timeline he is being portrayed (before or during/after intensive therapy in third year high school), these facets may be more or less pronounced, controlled, or acknowledged by him.

I have a zero tolerance policy for criticism or accusations regarding my decision to portray these serious, dark themes. I do not condone my muse’s views and actions, nor do I fetishize them. If you are uncomfortable with these themes, please block the appropriate tags. If you object to the entire principle of writing them, please unfollow. Simple. You are always welcome to ask me respectful questions regarding what/how I play, but casting judgment will not be accepted.

How I Play:

I am non-private semi-selective, meaning we do not have to be mutuals in order to interact and create threads, but I am still entitled to declining something I don’t want to engage in.

I may not follow back for myriad reasons all regarding my personal preferences (muse identity, characterization choices, writing style/ability, frustrating blog layout, missing rules/info, etc). Please do not take this personally. If this happens, you are still welcome to initiate interaction with me in any way, IC or OOC!  Also, if I do follow back, I definitely want to RP with you!

I will likely unfollow and decline to interact if you have too much OOC drama/fandom hate/anti behavior/bullying/callouts/discourse/politics/worldview on your blog. HUGE pet peeves of mine. I repeat, I do not support callout culture.

I am very uncomfortable with interacting with duplicates of my muse. It is absolutely my own failing and insecurity, but even just reading about others of the same muse triggers my inferiority/superiority complex, and I feel very sensitive. I wish it were not this way and could better interact with my fellow muns with good taste in muse, but this is currently not the case. Again, nothing personal is intended, but I will most likely not be able to interact with the blogs of duplicates for my own personal comfort. (This is 100% not the case for other fans of the muse or meta/fanfic writers; come to me!)

Multimuse blogs generally make me uncomfortable for various reasons, so unless I make a rare exception, I probably won’t follow (though I repeat you are still free to interact with/follow me).

I operate my muse based on what I feel is in his character to do at that moment. Sometimes that makes planning difficult, because he may not respond to a circumstance in a way I anticipated. Sorry if things do not go as planned. But I do also love plotting and overthinking things, and I think the more we communicate about what’s going on, the more we’ll both be on the same page.

I am willing to play scenes including sex/smut, gore/violence, angst, horror, abuse, torture, my character’s death, etc., and there will likely be somewhat disturbing content like this on this blog, especially considering his personality flaws and history of abuse. They will be tagged with “cw:” followed by the label.

I have severe depression and social anxiety with unpredictable mood/energy/motivation swings. I have a history of sporadic activity sometimes, and I know that is inconvenient, sorry! Also, in general I’d tell you I am slow at responding.

I may drop a thread due to general life anxiety, lack of ideas, or loss of inspiration, my deepest apologies. Don’t feel bad and do feel free to continue interactions with my muse in the future!

If you are RPing smut with me and I do not know your age, I assume you are above the age of consent. I am uncomfortable with roleplaying smut with underage individuals, so please refrain if you are under age 18.

What I Appreciate:

I am a huge fan of thorough communication. Notably, if you are planning on attempting to kill or torture my muse, it would be nice for some notification of this (either in the post/tags or in a message) at least one post beforehand.

Let me know if something I’m doing in a thread with you is making you uncomfortable. I myself am comfortable with exploring some very dark themes. I will do my part to check your blog rules, and I apologize if I am ever forgetful about anything mentioned.

Please try to refrain from controlling my muse’s thoughts and actions (unless that is your muse’s quirk; ask me).

Please try to remember to start a new post instead of reblogging an ask post over and over. I literally do not care, but some people whose dash I may show up on do care, and I’d rather give the people what they want.

I would rather non-RP blogs not reblog my RP threads (but following me and ‘liking’ them is totally okay)! Headcanons I’m going to say are generally okay to reblog, because I appreciate that others enjoy them. Just don’t steal them for your own muse or anything--like, especially the really specific/original ones.

I am not an artist and none of the art on this blog is mine. However I do edits on various images from time to time, usually tagged as such if significant enough. If you are the artist of something on my blog and want it taken down, message me! Similarly, I find it unsettling for others to use my significant edits meant for my muse in particular as their RP blog dash icons, so please don’t do that; I...think that’s fair and makes sense...? ? If you’re not sure, you can totally ask me about it.

What Is Acceptable:

Always feel free to send me an ask, IM, or communicate in our RP thread if you have something to say or ask. Or if you just have a random comment! Seriously, anything.

If it seems like I’ve forgotten about a thread or neglected to respond and you you really want to continue it, feel free to message me to remind/ask about it.

Let me know if there is something you want tagged, and I will try to accommodate with what I see as reasonable.

I am 100% cool with us engaging in more than one thread at once. Do it.

Pretty much all the memes in my #memes tag are always open. Meaning as long as you specify which one you’re referencing, you can send it in any time, even if I reblogged the post ages ago.

I selectively accept OCs and characters from other fandoms. It would be nice to have a little background on them first (either in a message or a link to info), especially if I am unfamiliar with the character or fandom (just assume I am). I may not be capable of responding if I don’t have enough knowledge about what I’m doing.

I am okay with roleplaying total AUs (as in, a completely different setting), but it is not my default preference. The best way to go about seeing if I’m interested would probably be to message me.

#info is my tag for posts with further information about my RP tendencies, habits, and preferences. Reading those is absolutely not obligatory but just there in case you want to know more!