#are actually feanorian and not doriathrim

[havenotwillnotreadthebooks]

Ok but wouldn’t it be funny if

Arwen, newly arrived in Valinor after faking her and Aragorn’s death and squirreling themselves away on a ship: of course i have proof i am who i say i am! I know the family technique.

Arwen, making the rivers jump to her command via a Song of Power: see? I am clearly Elrond Peredhel’s daughter and of Luthien’s line.

Arafinwe, who damn well knows Maglor used that technique against rebellious baby cousins and various unfortunate Silmaril-thieving kin: oh you are definitely Elrond’s

[sesamenom]

Ok, this (very belated) time we've got somebody with really nice hair, a lot of trauma (possibly related to previous bad decisions?), a Noldorin level of fire and song, and a relative lack of doom and current anger.

and it's....GALADRIEL!

Galadriel fighting for the teleri at the first kinslaying

I actually had some difficulty figuring this one out, so I ended up working backwards. Trauma + bad decisions means they're likely a Noldo, and hair being a defining (canon, sorry maglor) trait points us towards either one of the arafinweans, redheads, or fingon. Low levels of doom rule out the feanorions/redheads and low song eliminates fingon and finrod, leaving us with the options of angrod, aegnor, orodreth, or galadriel. Of those, aegnor is too fiery, orodreth's Bad Decisions outweigh his hair in terms of defining characteristics, and anyways galadriel is the only one who lived long enough to have the lingering bad-decision-related-trauma without active anger.

I'm finally going to have time to do some bigger drawings soon, so here's another build an elf. Once again, I'll draw whoever it ends up being (and maybe a bonus interaction with the Build an Elf 1 winner, Dior!)

[runawaymun]

I feel like we can’t not ask about Elrond for the most recent ask game you reblogged, number one you love talking about him and number two your hcs and characterization for him are always [chef’s kiss]

1: sexuality headcanon

Bisexual vers who has the reverse bisexual syndrome I do: he's attracted to like every man that walks the earth and then exactly one unattainable woman who was nice to him once ten years ago. (Celebrian)

2: otp

Celrond <3 (closely currently followed by Brimbrond (Celebrimbor x Elrond) -- but that's on a VERY close tier with QPR!Gilrond and Celrondir)

3: brotp

Tie between Elrond & Erestor and Elrond & Celeborn right now, but this question always fluctuates for me. I've really been in a second age Elrond mood thanks to Rings of Power lately and have been thinking a LOT about what it must have been like to have been him at that period in his life when he was so utterly immersed in a purely Elvish and presumably overwhelmingly Noldorin court. Did anybody understand his sense of temperature? His need for sleep? His sense of time? His ability to get ill? Did he accept those things about himself and stand up for himself to get his needs met or did he try and keep up with everyone else (hint: in my head it's the latter). How lonely must his existence at Gil's court truly have been in the early half of the second age? Anyway -- I headcannon Erestor as Peredhel, and headcannon that Elrond met him sometime around this time and that it was somewhat of a revelation for him to discover that a) there are other people like him and b) that maybe some of the things that make him 'faulty' or 'eccentric' by Elvish standards are really just human (or maia) traits and actually are just fine & he shouldn't be suppressing them.

And then there's Celeborn, who I headcannon has a strong vested interest in helping Elrond come to terms with his Sindarin heritage, which largely goes ignored (but that Elrond seems to overwhelmingly align himself with in the books). If we're going with a kidnap fam timeline, then Elrond was probably raised to be ragingly culturally Noldorin, and then Gil's court as previously stated is super Noldorin as well and I headcannon that most people there tend to think of him in terms of "Earendillion" -- thus again, stamping him "Noldorin". I think a lot about the fact that he probably had a Sindarin/Doriathrim accent/subdialect prior to the Sack of Sirion, and probably developed either a Feanorian accent or at the very least a strong Noldorin accent by the time he would have met Celeborn. He's got a mixed heritage and possibly doesn't know very much about the Sindarin half early on in his life, and so I think Celeborn really took him under his wing at that point and had a vested interest in helping him learn about Doriath, and Elwing, and Melian & Luthien and Sindarin cultural in general.

4: notp

I'm extremely fond of Elrond in all sorts of relationships and various constellations and polycules because he has so much love to give! But in terms of relationships I think I actively avoid/dislike, it's Gilrond in any dynamic which is romantic (because I headcannon Gil as ragingly aro), and tbh just...most Gilrond portrayals, because most often the power disparity is either romanticised or sexualised and I that's just...a personal squick for me. Ignored is less squicky but I still just don't really like reading their dynamic unless the author has taken some form of effort to reconcile the power disparity. Gil's the high king & Elrond is his herald. Gil could literally ruin his life and there are clear issues of consent in a dynamic like that. It's extremely easy for that to turn into something super unhealthy or dangerous so fucking fast and it always makes me a bit squeamish about the ship. There are ways around it and ways to resolve it in a healthy way, but that does take a lot of work and forethought. Most Gilrond fics tend to gloss over the potential issues of consent and just sexualize the power disparity and that's so gross to me sorryyyy.

5: first headcanon that pops into my head

He deals with really bad sleep paralysis because he's subject to a weird combo of elf-sleep (walking the paths of memory) and true-sleep (actual dream-states), on top of the curse gift of foresight which results in some wack ass visions.

6: favorite line from this character

Books it's a tie between: "Elrond laughed" and “Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere.” and "“Elrond’s house was perfect, whether you liked food or sleep or story-telling or singing (or reading), or just sitting and thinking best, or a pleasant mixture of them all. Merely to be there was a cure for weariness. … Evil things did not come into the secret valley of Rivendell." (none of these are strictly lines and this last one is not strictly from the character but shhhhh)

In the films: "You should have stayed dead" (From PJ's hobbit. That scene is so self-indulgent for me asdlkghjkl)

In Rings of Power: "I swore an oath to Durin. To some, that may now hold little weight. But in my esteem, it is by such things our very souls are bound." (meanwhile me screaming at the screen NO OATHS!! NO OATHS!! YOU DUMB BITCH!!!! but this line still hits me so hard)

7: one way in which I relate to this character

@the-commonplace-book pointed out the other day that a lot of my headcannons surrounding Elrond's differences due to his peredhel heritage and how he (and others) responds to it and struggles to accept his own limits are a rather good metaphor for chronic illness and disability and I haven't been the same since & feel very Seen (derogatory).

8: thing that gives me second hand embarrassment about this character

Please stop making people bully u into self care sweetie it's so Cringe.

9: cinnamon roll or problematic fave?

cinnamon roll cinnamon roll cinnamon roll

[kurdwonder]

from lordsofarda

again this is just a note for myself...the op wrote so good content

I disagree quite passionately!

For starters, their actions are hardly horrific by human standards. There’s no mention of rape or torture during any Kinslaying, crimes which are and have been common in every war ever fought IRL.  There’s no mention of biological, chemical or psychological warfare, and they take up arms only after diplomacy fails. By human standards of war-time behaviour, they’re frankly doing pretty good.

Second, the idea that their opponents were innocent victims and that the Feanorians alone are responsible for all Kinslayings is something I reject completely. The Teleri were throwing armoured elves into the sea before the swords came out, the Doriathrim banned Quenya (an act of genocide compared to the Feanorian mass murders, and one that targeted all Noldor indiscriminately), and basically I’ve talked about this at length before.

Finally, recovering the priceless artefact your father made and died trying to recover isn’t a bad reason to go to war, especially not when it’s 1) 1 of 3 completely unique and the only remaining sources of Light, possibly excluding Varda and the stars, 2) you’ve tried diplomacy, in one case for literal decades and 3) you’ve sworn by the highest powers in the setting to recover them or be damned. If it bothers Manwe and Varda and Eru so much that the Oath is sworn with them as witnesses, they shouldn’t uphold it. You can’t both allow the Oath because of “Freedom” and put Aman in lockdown

[cycas]

Hi, I have been wondering about the relationship between Sindar and Noldor. I’m only just wading into the further lore of ME, and I have found there was wariness at least between the two. How do you figure this relationship changed, if at all? Thanks :)

This is an excellent question, but also a very complicated one! Neither the Sindar nor the Noldor were unified groups, and they were also closely related to one another. No doubt there were people in the Noldor host who knew some of the Sindar from before they left.  I hope people will pitch in with any stuff I’ve missed. 

Both Noldor and Sindar were in Middle-earth for a very very long time. So I think it was different at different times, and between different groups.

When Feanor first arrived in Middle-earth and drove the hordes of orcs that were overrunning Beleriand back to Angband, I imagine the Sindar and Falathrim were delighted by that, at least, because nobody likes being slaughtered or dragged off to eternal slavery.

Feanor started to learn to speak Northern Sindarin, which suggests a fairly close relationship, at least with the Sindar in Hithlum (who were distrusted by the Sindar of Doriath as possibly Morgoth informers, incidentally)

Thingol wasn’t delighted about the Noldor arrival, but he wasn’t actively hostile either, until the news about Alqualonde came out for certain. There is a suggestion that rumours about that were circulating before though, leaked by Morgoth to cause division. Perhaps that’s why Thingol was a bit grumpy about the Noldor from the start, or perhaps he was just distrustful after a very long period with Sauron in charge of Angband. (Where are the fics about how the Sindar discovered that escaped thralls from Angband can’t be trusted…?)

But once Thingol found out about Alqualonde and banned Quenya, I imagine relations got more difficult, particularly in the East. The sons of Feanor didn’t settle in Sindarin-occupied lands, but they were directly on the Doriath trade-route east to Nogrod and Belegost.

The close relationship of Noldor and Sindar in Hithlum seems to continue for as long as Hithlum existed. Gondolin too, had both Sindar and Noldor inhabitants. So I tend to think that by the time everyone surviving was huddled on the Isle of Balar or at the Havens, the distinction between Noldor and Sindar was not considered very important. Everyone was living together in a fairly desperate situation, just waiting for Morgoth to make his next move.

Of course, it was the Feanorians that actually made the next move, so probably at that point the division became less Sindar v Noldor, than House of Feanor v The Rest (Morgoth on the sidelines, cheering on Team Feanor, of course, and poor Celebrimbor acutely miserable, wherever he is).

Gil-galad, whatever version of his ancestry you go with, was not Amanyar, and probably had Sindarin ancestry. So I think his Lindon was probably a bit more Eldar than strictly Noldor in composition.

BUT, we do know that after the end of the War of Wrath, a number of lords of Doriath went haring off to Lorien, Greenwood, Belfalas, etc. And the Belfalas crew at least are explicitly described as leaving to get away from the Noldor.

So I imagine the Doriathrim less integrated than the other Sindar on Balar. They put up with things while the war was on, but after that, I imagine their attitude much like that of (some of) the English immediately after WWII towards American troops : ie, it was nice to have the help in a pinch but now the war is safely over, we are going to grumble about the inconvenience.

(I have seen stuff about the ‘colonial’ Noldor, but honestly, I can’t see it. The Noldor came from Middle-earth, they went back, essentially, to fight a war, most of them then left again. OK, a few of them stayed to, i dunno, form jazz bands or because they met someone or because of their dream to found a doughnut shop or icecream parlour or a jewellery empire, but it was hardly an invasion. They came, they fought the enemy, a lot of them died, then they went home.)

[aragornsrockcollection]

So about Elwing hoping to send them away like she was sent:

At this point there was nowhere for the twins to GO, nowhere to send them, that wasn’t to tol Balar with Gil-Galad and Cirdan. And since they are canonically on their way, and just arrive too late to help, the best thing to do is hide the twins, not send them away. Elwing had hope that Gil-Galad would be able to reach them in time to help, which means the battle was a lot shorter than they expected it to be, and this makes the twins position a lot more dangerous- there will be a fair amount of time where Feanorians hold Sirion uncontested, while two six year olds attempt to stay hidden, before the intended outcome: Gil-Galad retrieving them, has a chance.

Elwing at this point knows she is going to die, and her children will be in a post-battle city for a time occupied by kinslayers. It is essential that they have as little reason to search for hiding places around Sirion as possible. If there is ANY doubt in their heads as to the location of the Silmaril, they’ll rip the whole settlement appart, and Elrond and Elros will be discovered for sure.

So Elwing makes sure they know exactly where it is. She draws them off, to the top of a cliff, Silmaril in full view. And then jumps to her death, confident that Ulmo won’t give it up to them, and they will see it is neither in Sirion any longer, nor within their reach, and hopefully flee, leaving her hidden children to be rescued and brought to Balar, where Earendil will find them on his return.

But Ulmo takes a lot more active role than expected, Elwing survives, and they DON’T return to Balar, because they saw no hope in going back. So something either convinces them that their children are dead (there is no reason to assume if the Feanorians have captured them that they will be spared), or they assume Gil-Galad has them, and if they don’t go on to Valinor they soon WILL be dead, with the rest of the free peoples of Beleriand.

And I think how one-sided the Feanorian attack on Sirion was is the deciding factor. They MUST have thought they had a chance in that fight. Otherwise the twins would have already been on Balar.

They had veterans of Gondor and Doriath, they had the blessing of Ulmo on Tuor’s family, they had a Silmaril, they must have thought one or all of those things meant they could at least hold out until Gil-Galad’s reenforcements arrived.

And, crucially, of the two forces that threaten them, Morgoth and the Feanorians, the Feanorians are weaker by far. Their forces are a shadow of what they were. They took casualties holding the March of Maedhros, they took HEAVY casualties at Dagor Bragollach, they lost forces when Curufin and Celegorm pulled their BS in Nargathrond (don’t tell me no Feanorians followed Celebrimbor in renouncing their actions), they were completely CRUSHED to the point that there would be no hope of taking on the enemy ever again at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. They may have destroyed Doriath, but it cost them not just three brothers, but it was an actual battle with casualties on both sides. Not to mention the non-doriathrim sindar elves who fought for Maedhros when they held the East heroically against Morgoth almost certainly did not follow them to Doriath. And the level of desertion after the bloody sacking of Doriath with no Silmaril to show for it must have been pretty high. We KNOW some of Celegorm’s men were out of Maedhros’s control after the battle, because they abandoned Elured and Elurin, and there is no way they went back and reported for duty after that one.

The Feanorians might be the monsters of Elwing’s childhood, but they are much reduced, and crucially they seem hesitant to attack. Maedhros tries to forswear the oath after Doriath. I suspect the letter they sent involved some PLEASE, PLEASE, WE DO NOT WANT TO DO THIS, JUST GIVE US THE DAMNED ROCK, OK? Except, definitely put more diplomatically. But Elwing had zero reason to think these people have any conscience, they slaughtered her parents and left her brothers to die in the woods. It isn’t a stretch for her to read hesitance to attack as a lack of confidence that they could win, not the crisis of morals they were actually having.

And Elwing never knew any of the kingdoms of Beleriand at their height, she’s exceptionally young and inexperienced, she probably has NO IDEA how pathetic their best efforts are in comparison to what defense Doriath mustered when she was three.

But after the attack? She watched her people slaughtered, it was so one sided that many enemy soldiers, the same elves that brutalized the kingdom of her birth and still followed the Feanorians, couldn’t stomach the butchery and turned on their own forces. It wasn’t a battle, it was a massacre and reenforcements weren’t close to making it in time.

This is the report Elwing brings Earendil. Sirion was never safe. The far weaker of their enemies ripped through them like a knife through butter. They could hope the boys remained hidden and Gil-Galad had them now, but even if he did, Morgoth is coming, and if they couldn’t stop the Feanorian’s at their weakest, they certainly couldn’t stop Morgoth at the height of his power. The only thing they can do for Elrond and Elros is to go on.

Meanwhile, the boys are scared, they’re hidden but imagine the noises they heard, the uncertainty. And then things quiet down. They’re supposed to stay until someone comes for them, but no one is coming, and they’re six.

Maybe they made noise, maybe they stuck their heads out of their hiding spot, maybe they resolved you go look for their mom, but whatever it was, Maglor and Maedhros find them.

They just lost their baby twin brothers. They just lost the Silmaril. They’ve just committed the greatest atrocity in their lives, all for nothing, and their already pathetically reduced forces faced casualties and mass desertion. The men they have left are those who were willing to follow truly vile orders. They’re loyal, but I have a suspicion that, depending on the individuals, Maedhros and Maglor are probably either as disgusted by them as they are of themselves, or feel guilty for leading good elves down an evil path.

This is relevant because if they leave these kids, Gil-Galad might come and get them. But more likely a Feanorian will find them. A fair portion of those extremely loyal elves followed Amrod and Amras, and their lords are dead and they are pissed. Like Celegorm’s men were. And many are deserters at this point and out of their control. The situation post kinslayings has proved pretty volatile and this is the worst one so far.

So there is barely a choice. They’re monsters, but they have not reached such a level that they would leave children at the mercy of a battlefield.

Maedhros is covered in scars, missing a hand, very recognizable as how their nursemaid described the boogie-man in stories, eight and a half feet tall and orcs flee before his intensity. He’s needed to organize what’s left of their people to retreat. He is needed to organize the removal of their brothers bodies.

Maglor has a soothing voice, looks very typically Noldor in a way that makes him hard to feature as a villain in bedtime stories, is built like a jockey (in my head at least, but crazy short for a high elf is probably like 5’11”… which comes in pretty handy keeping a low profile through two ages of the world) and critically here, he can sing two terrified half-elflings to sleep so they can be carried past the carnage without traumatizing them further.

Maglor takes the kids. Tolkien describes him as inheriting his mother’s gentle nature, which given he’s been driven by circumstance to be a murderer many times over doesn’t say a ton about how gentle Nerdanel is, but anyways. By the time he meets up with his brother back at their camp, if anything happens to Elrond and Elros he’ll kill everyone on that camp and then himself.

Okay, here's my hc for how the Feanorians ended up with Elrond and Elros.

They fell on Sirion quickly and viciously. It was the worst of the three kinslayings, the book says. Elwing tries to do as was once done for her and send her children out of the city. I imagine she had a desperate hope they could stay in hiding until the Feanorians left and later meet up with Earendil. She flees Maglor and Maedhros, and is ultimately driven off a cliff.

Meanwhile, the people entrusted with Elrond and Elros are shot down as they try to escape into the forest. The children are spared; I imagine Maedhros' followers learned well from Elurín and Eluréd what would happen to child-killers. They report the children to their superior officers instead.

Maglor retrieves them. Given how long Maedhros searched for their uncles, I imagine Maglor thought it would give his brother closure of some sort or another to see this pair of twins safe.

However, given that Maglor raises them instead of Maedhros, I can't imagine this worked very well. Maedhros would have regretted their deaths, I think. But he's....not doing well at this point in time. Even worse than Maglor, I think, because he's spent more time making decisions that failed and trying to take care of his family, nearly all of whom are now dead. Maedhros would protect the twins from death, I think, but he simply does not have the emotional bandwidth to do much else.

I think Elrond and Elros were both healers; the first is canon, the second can be extrapolated. The hands of a king are the hands of a healer, after all. And I think that seeing injuries - both physical and psychological - in the closest thing they had to parental figures for most of their upbringing might have sparked their interest.

Anyway. That's my hc for the sacking of Sirion.

[djinmer4]

Snippet from the Silmarillion Time Travel AU that will never be completed

“I’d rather hope to do better this time”.

Artanis- Galadriel, he reminded himself, simply arched an eyebrow at him as she passed him extra blankets and a satchel of food.  “You managed to stop the first Kinslaying completely.  Surely you did not expect everything to go your way, cousin.”

“I’d wanted more survivors.”  Maglor debated between taking his horse versus going on foot, but finally decided to take the horse.  He’d have to get the twins back out off the woods after all.  Putting them on the horse would be easier than carrying them both.  He wasn’t Maedhros after all.

“Celegorm was a lost cause once he agreed to be the one to meet Dior.  Your other brothers have survived.”  He returned the earlier eyebrow.  “And I never actually liked Dior.  There was a reason Celeborn and I were not here the first time around.  Did you at least acquire the Silmaril?”  He shook his head.  She pursed her lips in return.  “Unfortunate.  I suppose Elwing got away.  We don’t even need an extra appeal to the Valar this time.”

“Curufin did not take Celegorm’s death lightly.  Fortunately for Elwing, her mother bought her enough time to get away.  And we may yet lose Curufin.”  The frown that had threatened before was now on full display.

“If Nimloth is dead, that doesn’t leave many reasonable leaders left.  Beleg and Mablung would both counsel retreat to the Havens, but they’re both dead.  Oropher would want to attack you.  Eol might agree, on the other hand he may want to retreat.  But he wouldn’t want to go towards Sirion, he’ll want to go over the Ered Luin instead.”

“Dangerous, but possible.  Oropher made that trip the first time.”  He finished tucking everything away the last of the medicinal herbs.  He’d had no medical training the first time around, but hopefully he wouldn’t need it in this case.  “To whom does leadership fall to now that the direct heirs are out of reach?”

“I don’t think it was ever established.  Thingol, like Grandfather, assumed he would always be King and there never would be need for an heir.”  She pulled his simple grey cloak around his shoulders and tied it shut at the throat.  “I think Celeborn is the closest bloodkin, but Cirdan has seniority.  After that is Eol, then Oropher.”

“Not Amdir?”

“Amdir’s not related at all.  He only took charge last time because Celeborn wasn’t here, Eol was dead and Oropher had chosen to take only his people over the Ered Luin.”

“Cirdan’s on the Isle of Balar.  Work to have Celeborn assume control and the regency.  Getting the Doriathrim to safety should be your priority, and if he can convince Elwing to give up the Silmaril later, that should cut down on tensions.  If they object because-” Maglor laid his hand over Galadriel heart. “Then support Eol in evacuating past Ered Luin.  Having fewer people won’t make a difference once the Valar arrive, and may make things easier at Sirion.”

“So you’re already preparing for the next Kinslaying?”

“I don’t think Elwing was actually sane in our original timeline.  I’ve no reason to believe she’s any better in this one.”

She finished smoothing out the last wrinkles on his cloak then stepped back.  “One last favor cousin.”

“What is it?”

“When you find the twins, and I do mean when, not if, take them with you.”

The two of them were curled together in a hollow under the roots of a dead tree, trying desperately to stay warm, when they heard the singing.  It was a cheerful voice, full of warmth and welcome.  If Elurín had to describe it, he would have said it was like sunlight, although he’d never actually ever seen sunlight.  “Someone’s out there.  Maybe they can help us.”

Eluréd hissed back.  “Or maybe they can run us through.”

“Don’t be silly.  Soldier’s don’t spend their time singing in the woods.  They’re like that first ellon, rushing around, yelling and screaming and covered with blood.”  The younger twin thought about it.  “What if we just take a look?  If he’s got a sword or a horse we keep hiding.  If he looks nice, we’ll ask him to help us.”

As it turned out, the ellon did have a sword and a horse, but the sword was sheathed and propped up on the far side of a clearing, while the horse had a feedbag strapped to it’s mouth.  More importantly, he had a fire on which some hares were roasting.  The smell of the cooking meat made their stomachs rumble, which attracted his attention.  “Oh my.  What are two children doing out in the woods in the dead of winter?”

The elder twin took the lead then.  “Some mean soldiers left us out here.  We don’t know why, something about treevenge on our father.”

“Revenge,” the ellon said, but without the lecturing tone that their tutors would use.  “And it certainly isn’t right to punish children for the deeds of their parents.”  He stood up and they both tensed.  But rather than reaching for his sword, he opened up a satchel and pulled out some dull grey cloth, like what the Border Guard would wear.  “The two of you look cold and hungry.  Would you care to join me?”

The twins relaxed.  Clearly, this wasn’t a Feanorian, it was one of their own people who would protect them.  Within minutes, Eluréd and Elurín were curled up next to the ellon, eating some of the roast hare and drinking some strangely flavored tincture from his canteen. (”Sorry, no cups” said the ellon.  “I wasn’t expecting company.”)  The two of them listened to the black-haired elf sing for a while then started asking questions.

“What would you like for a reward?  Our father is the King of Menegroth” boasted the elder twin.  “He’ll give you whatever you want.”

“Whatever I want, hmm?” The elf smiled, but had the two been older they might have seen that the smile didn’t reach his grey eyes.  “Unfortunately, what I want is impossible for him to give.”

“Is your name Daeron?” blurted out Elurín.

“What?”

“I asked if your name is Daeron.”  The younger blushed but kept on going.  “Father said if that the best singer in the world is named Daeron, and he lives alone in these woods and if we ever were to meet him we should tell him that we are the grandsons of Tinuviel and he would help us.”  He was panting at the end of the long sentence, but his eyes were hopeful.  “You’re the best singer I’ve ever heard, so surely you must be Daeron.”

That made the ellon truly laugh.  “I only wish I was as good as Daeron.  You haven’t heard very many good singers if you could mistake me for him.  My name is Ma-Gonfin.”

“Gonfin?  That sounds terrible.”

“Yes, well, my parents wanted a girl.  They had a hard time with the naming ceremony.”

“Oh, sorry.”  The two of them meant it.  They had heard that their parents hadn’t had a clue what to name their older sister, which meant she ended up with a name that made no sense at all.  ‘Thingol Foam’ was almost as bad as ‘Hair Commander’.

They were getting tired now.  The black-haired ellon noticed, then bundled them up and placed them on his horse.  “Where are we going?” mumbled Eluréd.

“I’m on a journey to meet my brothers.”

Elurín yawned. “Will they take care of us?”

“Yes.  I swear it.”

[the-woodland-realm]

Thranduil’s Queen Headcanons

Okay everyone, sit tight, because I’m going to unleash a year’s worth of headcanons. 

General Headcanon about Elves

Since Tolkien did say that Middle Earth was our Earth in the distant past, the geographies should roughly line up. the twilit mere of Cuivienen would roughly be situated around the Caspian Sea area in Central Asia. Thus, I’d imagine that the earliest elves as well as the Avari who refused to depart from Cuivienen to have more Asian features, with slanted eyes and darker hair. 

Following the same logic, the Silvan elves who settled east of the Misty Mountains, and that area would roughly correspond to Central Europe, which is dominated by, you guessed it, temperate forests. The Sindar elves who settled in Beleriand would occupy Western Europe. 

The argument becomes a little more tenuous for the Vanyar and Noldor, most of whom (or in the case of the Vanyar, all) sailed to the West, which, pre-eleventh century, was considered the Great Unknown. 

Though blonde hair is not particularly prevalent in Central Asia, it does occur, and I’d like to think that the Vanyar were a group of elves who had such genetic predispositions. 

As for the strain of silver hair that runs in Telerin royal houses, that might just be due to a genetic lack of pigmentation.

Regarding Thranduil’s golden hair, he might have had an ancestor who was a Vanya (we can assume that elves married outside of their clans with the case of Indis and Finwe, a Vanyarin lady who married the High King of the Noldor). 

If only I put this much effort into my actual research. 

Okay, so this brings us to the main topic of this post: Thranduil’s queen. 

Since Thranduil in the Third Age relocates his kingdom and builds an underground cave complex/palace not unlike Menegroth, it’s safe to say that he was alive and lived (not just born) in the First Age. This makes sense because his father, Oropher, is described to have come from Doriath. 

Thranduil’s queen is Tatharel, a Sindarin noble and a daughter of Doriath. She was born in F.A. 472. 

Her father, born on the Great Journey and to whom Cuivienen was only a backwards glance. Her father, a particularly skilled marksman, by electing to wait for Thingol and thus be sundered from his own parents (who joined the host of Olwe), gained Thingol’s favor and was name High Councilor along with Saeros before the latter’s death. 

Her mother was of the house of Elmo, the same line as that of Celeborn. Tatharel's maternal grandfather, Galathil, was killed in the First Battle of Beleriand, and her grandmother faded from grief. Her mother was taken under the tutelage of Celeborn, Galathil's brother. Tatharel's mother is therefore the sister to Nimloth, Second Queen of Doriath, and Tatharel herself is first cousin to Elwing, mother of Elrond.

With such a lineage and her father's position in court, Tatharel is well-versed in diplomacy and is taught to bear herself with dignity and pride befitting of her position. She values logic and intuition, as well as a quid pro quo method of handling affairs.

Oropher was born in the Year of the Trees and occupied a minor position in court. His wife and son lived in East Doriath. In F.A. 495, when times grow dark, Oropher moves his household to Menegroth, and that's when Thranduil and Tatharel met.  

In F.A. 495, Oropher moves his household to Menegroth. Thranduil and Tatharel meet for the first time, and Thranduil mistakes Tatharel for Luthien. 

Tatharel’s initial impression of Thranduil is that he’s a country bumpkin, but comes to appreciate his quirks and finds them refreshing from the splendor and excesses of court. Similarly, Tatharel doesn’t fit Thranduil’s idea of a court lady and finds her to be intriguing. 

They spend more time together and become friends, though solidly denying any rumors of being lovers. 

In F.A. 502, Thingol is slain due to the quarrel with the dwarves of Nogrod over the Silmaril. The court is severely disrupted, and Tatharel’s father maintains control until Dior and his family arrive the next year. 

Since Tatharel’s aunt is the queen of Doriath, she gains considerable respect and jealousy 

Thranduil and Tatharel survive the sackings of Doriath, first by the dwarves of Nogrod and then by the Feanorians, and flee to the Havens of Sirion. There, they basically wait out the rest of the war.

Tatharel, regardless of her later titles, has always considered herself to be foremost Doriathrim. The destruction of her home and the sinking of Beleriand contributes to her eventual melancholy and her bitter regret.

At the end of the First Age, her parents and Thranduil's mother decide to sail West. However, Tatharel, wishing to see more of Arda, decides to remain and with the other Sindarin survivors, join Celeborn's fiefdom in Harlindon. Celeborn (perhaps because she is kin) offers her a seat on his council, of which Oropher is also a member. Unsurprisingly, since Harlindon is technically under the rule Gil-galad, the Noldorin councilors have more political clout. Oropher, disliking this power imbalance, decides to migrate east to Rhovanion. Tatharel follows because she has started a tentative relationship ("friends") with Thranduil.

As the Second Age passed, Oropher continuously moved the capital north, from Amon Lanc to north of the Gladden Fields then to Emyn Duir. She saw this as the beginning of isolationism, but held her tongue. However, the memory of Doriath, the Fenced Land, lingered her mind, for it was that same isolationism and hostility that led to its ruin.

Tatharel and Thranduil further pursue their relationship, and towards the end of the Second Age, he was hinting at a marriage proposal. When Oropher decides to join Gil-galad in the Last Alliance, Thranduil proposes, but she hesitates. Only when the Woodland army was preparing to depart did she run in front of Thranduil, promising that when he returns, she would marry him.

When Thranduil came back from the war, he was haunted by his father's death and the horrors of war. He delayed the issue for two hundred years before marrying Tatharel who was crowned the Queen of the Woodland Realm.

After the War of the Last Alliance, the Silvan elves suffered a significant decrease in their population, particularly able-bodied males, who were the usual demographic to partake in politics. The Sindar, with their experience of warfare and positions as officers, experienced little decline. The ratio of Sindar to Silvans increased, and that's what mostly triggered the Sindar to actively demand more rights. 

So up until now, the Silvans and Sindar have coexisted peacefully, for it was the Silvans who gave land and lordship to the Sindar, a social contract of sorts.  The Sindarin rightists followed Oropher east because they were eager for power. These elves were by no means a majority, but they were a considerable plurality and were mid-tier at Thingol's court. In Harlindon, despite the population mostly being Sindar, they were often overlooked in favor of the Noldorin lords, and it was only powerful Sindarin nobles like Celeborn and to a lesser degree Tatharel, one of the few who can claim kinship to Thingol, have their voices heard. But in a new realm, these rightists would see an increase in their power without the presence of the Noldor. It was a fresh start. Obviously, when they first entreated the Silvans, they couldn't assert themselves too highly because the Silvans, seeing the inequality, would refuse the Sindar to settle on their lands. They had to settle for relative equality at first, but that seed of ambition always remained.

Now, the Sindarin rightists want more privileges and sought to do so by making the Silvans second-class citizens. Sindarins would receive the upper government and military positions, would be taxed less (regressive income tax brackets, oh my), etc. Tatharel opposed such a policy, as did Thranduil, for such a course of actions would undermine his father's original intentions. This earned Tatharel some enemies.

Thranduil, like Tatharel, is torn about the growing gap between his people. On one hand, he understands his father's intention in sincerely adopting the Silvan culture (c.f. rightists who take advantage of Oropher's actions to elevate themselves). On the other hand, he sees the reasoning behind having more Sindar in positions of power because they were more experienced with warfare and statecraft as well as they supported his father in Doriath and Harlindon.

Rather than taking action, Thranduil becomes passive, first granting more Sindarin military officers to protect the realm. Then he offers more council seats to the Sindar who had such experience previously. It's not something he does intentionally; he acts with the welfare of the kingdom in mind, but his actions quickly become a slippery slope which benefits the rightists.

Although Tatharel is a bit more forgiving towards the Noldor since some of them are kin by marriage (e.g. cousin-in-law Earendil, grandaunt Galadriel), Thranduil's not particularly fond of the Noldor. He, like many Sindar, believe that the wars that ended the First and Second Ages were caused by the meddling of the Noldor. In fact, due to the massive losses of the Woodland army in the War of the Last Alliance, he believes that he was shorted by Gil-galad. He doesn't like Galadriel very much, even though she's technically related to him through marriage. This anti-Noldorin worldview and disdain for their meddling causes Thranduil to ban correspondence to the west where the Noldor dwelled.

Thranduil isn't as right as the rightists but he's much more right than Tatharel who's centrist.

The politics at Thranduil's court is really a holdover from Doriath. Ironically, Tatharel held a higher position than Thranduil and the rightists in Doriath, and she knows them better than Thranduil, who lived in Doriath for a very brief time. She understands them, their motives and potential underhandedness, and is not obligated by a bond of gratitude like Thranduil is.

Regarding Tatharel's stance on the cultural-political divide, she isn't against the Silvans. In fact, she's divided on whom to support, but she knows that Thranduil's passiveness and the slippery slope that's happening is wrong. She doesn't actively support the Silvans because to her, they with their wild ways contradict everything she's been taught in Doriath. Yet she doesn't believe that they should be subjugated in order for an elite Sindarin class to emerge.

A potential cause for her disfavor of the Silvans would be that they pushed forward a Silvan as a candidate for queen during the two centuries between Thranduil's return from the war and his marriage to Tatharel. The Silvans also recognized that the Sindar would begin to attempt to grapple for more power and wanted a Silvan queen as a reassurance of their continued prestige, even though it was widely known before the war that Thranduil and Tatharel were quite close. 

In the end, Thranduil married Tatharel because she understood him, braved the fires of the Second Kinslaying with him, and followed him east though her immediate family departed for Valinor. It was this loyalty and intimacy that compelled Thranduil to choose Tatharel. The Silvans saw this rejection of their plea, and both peoples contributed to the growing divide.

Despite Tatharel's personal aversion for the Silvans, she knew rationally that this rift was dangerous and could prove to be disastrous if it were to be manipulated by outside forces.

Around T.A. 1000, Thranduil and Tatharel's marriage became strained. She was tired of seeing Thranduil granting more and more privileges to the Sindar as if he was repaying them for an old debt.

When she was heavily pregnant with Legolas, she and Thranduil had a particularly nasty spat, in which Thranduil, scarred from war and in a moment of fury, struck Tatharel. She, in retaliation, told him that his court was filled with a nest of vipers and that he should have married his Silvan queen (basically reneging their marriage). That marked the beginning of the end of their relationship. Both regretted their words and actions later, but the deed was done.

Thranduil’s retreat to his underground palace, built in the memory of Menegroth for his queen causes Tatharel to fully see an echo of Doriath, and when Thranduil forbids all correspondence to the west, she can no remain silent. She drafts a letter to her kinsman Celeborn expressing her concern regarding Thranduil's isolationism, the divide between the people, and how Celeborn manages a similar situation in Lothlorien. The cultural divide, her troubled marriage, and the growing darkness she included in her letter to Celeborn. She lamented the glory days in Doriath, how Thranduil was so blinded in his rule, and how she felt so suffocated in the Woodland Realm. She wondered if she would have been better off if she sailed after the War of Wrath, among other grievances and regrets. Her letter is intercepted, and she is charged by the council for treason as well as insubordination, for which the punishment is death. However, considering that she has been a wise and just ruler, the council agrees to lessen her sentence to exile. She agrees, much to Thranduil's dismay, and goes into self-exile, leaving the king with an infant son. 

This letter wasn't treasonous in its intent, which was to seek advice from Celeborn, but the rightists twisted it to make it seem like an act of treason. Also, the fact that she directly rebuffed Thranduil's edict and sent a letter west didn't help. 

To escape and forget her plight, Tatharel travels east, past Rhun and the great deserts to the magnificent cities of the Far East. It’s only after two thousand years did she return to Middle Earth near the end of the War of the Ring. She lives with her kinsman Celeborn for a short while. When Celeborn meets Thranduil to redraw the boundaries between their realms, she accompanies Celeborn and meets Thranduil. 

[doegred-main]

I would argue that no Feanorian has zero braincells. Unlike Tolkien's most beloved characters that basically win through deus ex machina even when their actions are stupid on purpose (this is one of Tolkien's themes all through his work, after all: his heroes are not the smart people). Still: yes. Celegorm is far from stupid. and, in my opinion, not truly hot headed.

This because he is also the one leading the Feanorian troops into Doariath during winter. A battle they will win despite: their enemies being half godlike, their enemies having had the Silmaril, their enemies knowing the territory when they completely ignore its layout.

Basically had he been hot headed, stupid or less than skilled they would have lost that battle. In every conceivable way: they had all the disadvantages, they should have lost. The only advantage they held was an army that actually did fight Morgoth and knew what they were doing. What happens instead is that they win and the doriathrims have to flee from their territories. Far from the actions of a stupid man.

For the cruel, I love his feralness, but I cannot see him as cruel per se. He can be when he feels cornered, but not for its own sake. He is the one moving his troops to save Ciridan and the Falmari before the Dagor-nuin-Giliath. He and Curufin are the ones moving, with a mass of refugees to save Orodeth and his people. More than cruel I would call him ruthless. Like nature is. That is why I love him.

I know why fanon Celegorm has negative braincells (as opposed to the traditional Feanorian zero) but I think you could make a case that he, more than any of Feanor’s sons, inherited his father’s linguistic talents.

Besides the coup in Nargothrond, when they learn of Finrod’s death, it’s Celegorm rather than Curufin who tries (albeit unsuccessfully) to calm everybody down. Plus, more crucially but much more meta, Celegorm speaks the languages of birds and beasts, which is a hunter thing, yes, but it’s also a skill Tolkien first conceptualized as being a major characteristic of Rumil, the linguist of his earliest writings.

It’s not clear-cut canon, but it’s such an interesting possibility, to have the guy who is hot-headed and cruel also be the guy who inherited the linguistic talents of the guy who invented tengwar

[sweetteaanddragons]

#Make Fingon Controversial 2021!#Fingon

I mean. If you want a really problematic Fingon.

. . .

When news comes to the Halls of Mandos in the form of the Doriathrim dead, there are a certain amount of sympathetic looks sent Fingon’s way. No one is crass enough to actually say anything, of course, but the speech of the dead is not like the speech of the living, and the looks speak eloquently enough.

Most confine themselves to looks.

“What would you say to your kinslayer now?” Elenwe says, voice more vicious than is her usual wont.

Fingon looks at her blankly and thinks, but does not say:

When we arrived in Beleriand and heard he was lost, I went to him and said not a word of the Ice. I thought not a word of the Ice and did not until one of his brothers pulled me aside and urged me quietly not to lay too heavy a burden of guilt on him for Losgar because he argued against it.

I thought not a word of reproach against him when he healed, I thought not a word of reproach against him when I still searched for him, and I thought not a word of reproach against him when we were in the bitterest of the Ice and had no idea he was anything but well.

If I would not think ill of him for your sake - for you, who are as dear to me as a sister - what do you imagine I would say to him for the sake of them?

. . .

When news comes to the Halls of Mandos in the form of the Feanorians who turned against their lords in Sirion, there are a certain amount of sympathetic looks sent Fingon’s way. He ignores most of them.

Some refuse to be ignored.

“At least you never had to fight against him,” one says heavily.

He was a good advisor in the wars. Fingon had been friendly with him as far back as Aman.

Fingon looks at him with a gaze as cold and as hard as granite and thinks, but does not say:

I fought at Alqualonde. They excused me later; they said I did not know what I was doing, that I did not understand what was happening. This was true.

What they never realized was that if I had realized, I still would have fought because I drew my blade for one reason and one reason alone: Maitimo fought, and he needed more blades to hold the line.

If I fought for him then, what makes you - you, who turned against him, who dared betray your oaths - what makes you think I would have fought for anyone but him now?

. . .

When news comes to the Halls of Mandos in the form of Maedhros in chains, there are a certain amount of sympathetic looks sent Fingon’s way. He ignores all looks, except for the one that is not sympathetic but agonized.

He meets it with blazing fury.

“How dare you?” he demands when Maedhros has been safely locked away and Fingon is alone outside his cell. “How could you?”

Maedhros bows his head. He is shaking.

But Fingon cannot let it go. “How could you hurt yourself?” he insists.

Maedhros looks up, then. “That is the least of my crimes,” he says grimly.

“It is the worst,” Fingon says, “it is by far the worst.”

Maedhros does not argue with him anymore. Not like he used to. His eyes are weary when he asks, “Is it the one you cannot forgive me for?”

“Don’t be stupid,” Fingon tells him, and he presses his arm through the bars so that he can grasp Maedhros’s wrist to ensure he does not feel alone in his chains.

‘only members of the house of finwë rule over the noldor,’ true, but the second trait doesn’t have to follow the first. anyone who wins an election in second-age tirion is officially adopted into the house of finwë, usually by findis or fingon or someone else inoffensive