#aotv discourse

[awesomefringey]

A friend was last night at the Mexico premiere thanks to her job, she isn't a fan but knows who Louis is and I have told her about some fandom gossip over the years. She said that Louis is really sweet and comfortable with the kid in the film but also treats him the same way he does his youngest siblings which can be taken in any way. As a real parent connection or simply how he is with kids because we know thanks to the Deakin drama that he doesn't see the youngest twins often. He does kiss F in the lips but also kisses Doris the same way so might be a family thing. There is quite a lot of shirtless Louis and Lottie talks about Fizzy and his granddad talks about Jay and Freddie. She said either his granddad is a great actor or he doesn't know about the kid not being Louis or the kid is Louis' because he is really convincing lol she also said Louis sounds super smart and vulnerable in the doc and made her like him a lot.

Thank you nonnie for sharing.

I personally really hope that at some point we can finally move past focussing on those few moments that involve the kid and instead be able to see and listen to the what the movie tells us about Louis in the other 97% of it.

Like you said there at the end and I so appreciate it, let’s talk about his intelligence, let’s talk about his vulnerability. This is what I care about. Not what 5 minutes of Louis being sweet to a sweet kid does to people and their future in this fandom. This movie wasn’t designed against Larries as much as it wasn’t designed for them.

[twopoppies]

I am SO mad why does everyone always seem to think the worst of Louis immediately?? Ughhhh, I’m seeing EVERYONE all over Twitter, even some people who really are usually super supportive fans, are saying “well if he says that I’m gonna leave” “I’m not gonna watch the movie if he really says it” are you serious??

Because some people are really fucking tired. And other people are being dramatic. But I don’t agree that people “always think the worst of Louis”. TBH, from what I’ve seen, Louis is more often excused and everything is blamed on his label or his closet or because he’s being sabotaged.

Either way, getting all worked up before anything even happens is par for the course in this fandom. Try and ignore it as best you can. Tomorrow there will be actual proof of what’s in the film. It would be nice if people saved their public worrying until then.

[yorkshirelarrie]

ok this is it guys. not long before we’re gonna get real reports of what’s in the doc. it’s been nice knowing you all and serving alongside you 🫡🫡🫡

[nooradeservedbetter]

-

[larrylimericks]

23Mar23

We’re feeling some internal friction At silver screen Louis’ depiction; All the world is a stage But it’s hard to engage When plot lines combine fact and fiction.

I get really rambly below the fold. Proceed with caution if you’re over the discourse already.

I debated seeing All of Those Voices in theaters. I didn’t see either of Harry’s films in theaters — Harries are too much of a wildcard, and I refused to sit through hours of squeals and gasps and reactions, not to the movie but to “omg! Harry’s going down on someone! omg, Harry’s bum!” So I was already tentative about seeing Louis’ film in a shared space, outside the protective silos of tumblr. But I bought a ticket, because I want to support him and because I was genuinely curious what story would be told. Then we got the trailer and I hesitated again, not wanting to watch a propaganda film. But, I’ve lived through all the other Bullshit moments, so I figured I could live through Bullshit on the big screen.

My theater crowd was great — pretty neutral aside from an amusing row of politely excitable Larries I was in secret solidarity with. And I pretty much loved the film. Well, 92% of it. I look forward to watching it again when it streams. I mean, it was an hour and a half of content featuring this fascinating creature we’re all obsessed with. I didn’t want to blink. I hung on his every word (when I could understand them). How cool to get, essentially, a long-form interview, where he’s not promoting an album and we’re not getting the same sound bytes. Louis is wonderfully open and vulnerable, and the story of his life (heh) is inherently compelling. The cinematography is beautiful. The behind-the-scenes are delightful and delicious. I can’t wait for the AOTV gif sets once we have it in high-def.

But it has some plot holes as wide and deep as the ones in Don’t Worry Darling.

First, there’s the confusing (to the uninformed) absence of a love interest. Louis is asexual, as far as the film goes. There’s not even a ghost of Eleanor, with whom he’s cumulatively spent a decade and who is supposed to have inspired so many great love songs and with whom he is supposed to have survived a pandemic. Props to E for living her best life now: going to see Scream on AOTV opening day, enjoying full custody of the pups, publicly supporting her assumed partner — sorry you got Kiki Layned from the film, but I’m guessing you weren’t even written into the script. (It’s not like the film was conveniently re-edited in the months since their break-up. Her stunt tapering was intentional.)

Then there’s the glaring absence of a baby mama (thank god; that family would have been even more insufferable). We’re cruising along for 45 minutes or so and then, wham, Dad!Louis enters the chat with a fully formed 6-year-old child. The kid just magically appears with no backstory — just like in real life ... twice (the first time with the pregnancy announcement and the second time with the revival of Dad!Louis after several years of dormancy, right in time for documentary filming. Just like Harry stunted with his co-star during filming and production, Louis stunted with his.)

The kid is cute, and faultless in this. The scenes are objectively sweet (as they were designed to be). But Louis, who normally keeps things very close to the vest, is all of a sudden an emotional spigot you can’t turn off when it comes to these scenes. It seems quite out of character. Which brings back to mind that this Louis *is* a character. The Freddie scenes just didn’t seem to have a point in the plot other than: Louis is a dad. And that role isn’t integral to the film’s story.

He’s incredibly emotional with Freddie, but the movie doesn’t tell us why. The storytelling gets lazy here. The lad/dad plot seems wedged in. The movie would be perfectly complete without it. I felt like it could have been integrated a few different ways: Louis experienced tragedy after tragedy after tragedy — loses 1D, loses his mum, loses his sister ... and then impending fatherhood either becomes another trial he must reluctantly face (in the surprise pregnancy narrative) or it helps him navigate the grief of losing his sole parent, his closest confidante. OR, Louis, not wanting to be like the absentee father he had, shows up for his own oopsie baby despite the unexpected circumstances. But there’s no exposition or rising action. No footage or photos from the first few years of the kid’s life that we haven’t already seen. Just an immaculate conception.

I think the most compelling narratives of the film are these:

Louis’ overcoming adversity after adversity after adversity. Holy hell. I lived through 1D ending, through the devastating news about Jay (god, I remember the shock and sadness of that day — it was incomprehensible), through the heartbreaking news about Fizzy, and then when you think Louis is gonna get his moment of victory with his first solo world tour, coronavirus pulls the rug out. (That sequence was well done: where we keep seeing the dates get closer and closer to March 2020, and we all know the villain that’s coming, but it’s still such a blow.) I lived through all that in real time, but seeing it in such a concentrated sequence really highlights the shit he’s been dealt, and hearing him open up about so much of it ... that’s the character development relevant to the film’s denouement. And getting to see Louis get what he deserves, finally, and hearing him acknowledge that he deserves it, was a lovely ending.

Louis’ journey to find his footing and his confidence as a solo artist after unfathomable success as part of a group. But, in a sort of plot twist, he’s not really solo, is he? The film gives a lovely introduction to his band now — and in their own words, reveals that they’re not just a backing band, they’re a *band* band. Louis has let them in. He’s forged a new brotherhood. *That*, for me, was the heartwarming story. I loved those scenes, loved seeing Louis in his element, which is in a collective, where he is both king and jester at the same time. (Or perhaps Oli’s the jester. Thank fuck for him, man. Oli is the standout. The breakthrough performance. The comic relief. I want a spinoff series.) It’s easy to miss 1D and glorify those short years and think nothing will ever top it, but Charlie’s storytelling of the LT Band is remarkable. We’re left looking forward, not back.

I know Louis’ dedication to his fans and his fans’ dedication to him is a huge focus, but I don’t really enjoy watching commentaries on fandoms I’m a part of. I’m living it. I don’t need outsider context. And in a fandom as fractured as Louis’ (and 1D’s) there’s not a universal experience. The film depicts dedication as sleeping on streets for rail, hopping from country to country and draining bank accounts — because that’s the kind of “superfandom” that gets easily turned into a marketable freak show. Show me the documentary on the fans who organize the light projects, who run the fashion accounts, who curate livestream sources on show nights, who have turned giffing into an art and science, who help promote Louis in the absence of a competent marketing team, etc., etc. I also thought the interview with the American(?) girls talking about LATAM shows was shortsighted. And showing the rainbow factions but not addressing them? What a missed opportunity to talk about songs like Only the Brave becoming a queer anthem. Straight artists can have gay fans, you know.

But the film doesn’t make the kid relevant to any of those storylines. He could have been worked into the first, but wasn’t. It was like a standalone narrative, with footage from a narrow set of days. I was at both those L.A. shows. The energy was so different from night 1 to 2. And in retrospect it’s clear Louis was performing the first night so Charlie could get the right shots. More like a choreographed play than a rock concert. It makes sense now why the Clarks weren’t in the VIP box with Freddie — couldn’t have them cluttering the frame or distracting the actors. Just, everything about the Freddie scenes is heavy-handed. Make a sign for your dad! Draw his logo in the sand! Fly a kite at sunset! He’s the spitting image of Louis! (Len does all the heavy lifting.) And all the maneuvering it had to take to get all those shots from the L.A. show?! In the VIP box from behind (and from the front, and when he just happens to be mouthing along to Two Of Us), side stage watching Louis end the show, on-stage watching Louis approach Freddie after the show, on-stage catching the moment Louis gives the lad a shout-out ... Charlie had a shot list. But sure, nothing was set up, it was totally organic.

I’m still unsettled by how heavily Charlie laid it on at the first premiere press conference — *he* was the one to bring up the kid, and was weirdly emphatic that nothing was staged, nothing was forced. It had the same energy of the “It’s. Not. Real” thrown baby doll moment, only it’s Charlie insisting that It. Is. Real. Thou dost protest too much, me thinks.

And of course, the lack of interaction between Louis and Harry remains, as ever, the biggest tell. We get poignant post-1D Nouis and Lilo moments in the film, but no Larry. We’re spoon-fed these Very Emotional Moments between father and son (“love you,” “Darling,” mouth kisses), when the real story, the real emotion, the real connection is in just a few seconds of furtive glances between Harry and Louis in the backstage footage of the last 1D performance. Christ, the way Harry’s eyes bore into Louis — chin tilted down, eyes glancing up from beneath a furrowed brow, lips tight, disguising his attentiveness with a hair flip ... they mastered so many forms of silent communication. The quiet call and response, the depths of love and care and concern and protection contained in micro-expressions. Fuck, give me 90 minutes of that. Just a silent film of Louis and Harry looking at each other.

Anyway. Sorry this sounds so grumpy. I did really love most of the movie. But I haven’t made sense of why this film was made. I don’t know its purpose. Maybe the introspection forced by the pandemic lockdown is to credit for this glut of music docs (“docs”) lately. Maybe nine minutes frees him up for nine more months or nine more years. I dunno. He obviously wanted this story told in this way.

Seeing a movie requires the willing suspension of disbelief. You have to ignore critical thinking in order to enjoy the story you’re being told. You tune out your knowledge that everything is fake for the sake of being entertained. We know that Superman can’t actually fly, but we still buy tickets to the cinema. But, a documentary shouldn’t require us to employ this semi-conscious perceiving mode. Yet here we are. I’m just not sure how much more or how much longer we can suspend our disbelief to enjoy fandom.

[seasurfacefullofclouds1]

I agree we could get away from the incessant discourse on Louis' love life (Louis Tomlinson fucks, so what). But in honor of the clip you posted, I want to talk about my favorite relationships (platonic of course) - the one Louis has with Helene Horlyck (a woman!). 

First Helene is an amazing vocal coach. Just watching those early XFactor performances, she took those five boys (only one with any real training) and turned them into something incredible (obviously puberty, confidence and other people helped too). Just those last few performances, the range they had (Zayn always, but Liam's falsetto, Niall's rasp, Harry and Louis' ability to hit Zayn's high notes when he left) - thank you Helene!

The scenes between her and Louis in AOTV are goals. How she helps him with his confidence as well as his voice, can intuit exactly how he's feeling (and her pep talks are just perfect), how she describes him as "gentle and sensitive" - I get goosebumps just thinking about it. And Louis wrote the foreword to her book  (https://tbhonest.co.uk/2021/12/22/just-sing-by-helene-horlyck-is-the-confidence-boost-we-all-need/amp/) Sigh. I love them. 

I was happy to see her at Liam's funeral with other 1D staff. Anyway, pick someone supportive - it's Helene! 

Appreciation for Helene (ignore her praising Simon Cowell)

[dogsliampaynedoesntinstagram]

There's something really fascinating about the way people have been reacting to the suggestion that Louis isn't blacklisted. In particular, it seems like both in general in the discourse I've seen and in your anons, there's an underlying feeling that saying that Louis isn't blacklisted invalidates the challenges he's faced in the industry or with 1D. It's strange because to me it feels like the opposite. After the extreme power imbalance he experienced in 1D (they got plenty of resources and it gave them a lot of success but they had very little control or leverage and it clearly took a toll on their health, physical and mental), it makes complete and total sense to me that Louis would prioritize independence and control of his career, even if it meant sacrificing financial support or some mainstream success. It feels like a validation of what people have observed about his relationship with Syco that he eventually learned from it and knows what to prioritize now.

The real question I have is whether Louis' deal with BMG gives him ownership of his masters (BMG's website has a testimonial from Rita Ora specifically mentioning that she owns her masters with BMG). That might speak to why he used so little Walls music in AOTV. At the very least, it's what I'm wildly curious about, rather than how often he's played on radio 1.

Anon - I think recent events have just underscored the point you are making. I see the appeal of a world view where the only obstacle that matters is one with a clear cut villain whose goal is to make your life worse. But it's not real - not for anyone. Not for us and not for the celebrities we are projecting onto. Our problems are almost always much more complicated than this world view allows - and we have to figure out how to navigate them.

I'm fairly sure Louis does own his masters - I think that's the deal with BMG. I agree that given that it makes a lot of sense that he plays

[holyshit]

What even is the drama that’s happening today??? I dont see anything other than some vague posts

lol sorry i understand the struggle of trying to find the source of the discourse. someone posted an anon of someone claiming to have seen AOTV and pretty much said it included a ton of stuff that people won't like etc etc. could easily be a troll so i wouldn't give these things the time of day until fans actually start to see it in numbers so, shrug!

[jlf23tumble]

the starting montage of aotv damn he has a lot to say. I saw aotv for first time yesterday and honestly I'm surprised why theres not much discourse about it? cuz that's the only section where harry features in entire movie and fans are still just not connecting the pointed commentary overlapping it?!?!

For real, molto curioso, no?? I think it's because a lot of people aren't likin' what he's saying here, and rather than connect the dots, the transference is in the rush to cry over Freddie (or just ignore it, or to focus on the hug, which is a choice for sure!)

[awesomefringey]

I live in the UK. I've worked at Odeon cinemas, before their re-vamp and policy changes.

No. We absolutely do not screen movies in any form of frequency, and no, unless you're in higher management, you're not part of any movie screenings. We only screen a movie if we actually get a notary to do so because the the rating or warnings have been challenged or marked as lacking.

So for example, if a PG-13 movie gets challenged as containing themes or scenes not suitable for the rating. Only then does a member of higher management skim through it, often to certain time markers. We absolutely do not watch the entire movie, that's ridiculous. Do you know how many hours of footage we'd have to screen on a weekly basis? We'd have to specifically hire someone just to screen movies.

We're allowed to take home posters and stuff, but that's about as much as we get in terms of 'perks' for the job.

Anon is on some serious bullshit. At least about how they came about the preview.

[faithinlouisfuture]

At what point do we stop complaining and enjoy Louis AOTV Documentary, his successful world tour, his surprise Live Album, his concert Livestream benefiting children in Palestine and his 19 festival appearances. Some fans will never be happy. They need to alway find fault and complain as that gives them the dopamine rush.

maam i have no idea what you’re talking about because i’ve been touching too much grass lately so i’m completely out of the loop when it comes to annoying fandom discourse- all i see on my mutuals blogs is the fun stuff and that tells me i’ve done a great job curating my experience here ☺️

thank you mutuals for putting ass and happy thoughts on my dash 🫶🏽

[alarrytale]

Hi Marte :) A live album or a concert movie would be amazing. If it’s a live album he could say him and no one outside the fandom would pay attention as we saw with Medicine so I agree with what you said. Louis reading things in Twitter group chats is really funny when you consider things like his smile after you still like to wear my jumper after umbrogate. I think he also does things to mess with us such as when he said good girl to a fan again after he saw the fandom freak out about it on Twitter. Hope you’re having a peaceful morning <3

Hi, anon!

A live album would be amazing. I don't think he'd do a concert movie so close after aotv, so i'm thinking a live album or another streamed live performance or something.

I heard he said group chats in the smallzy interview, but knowing he's technologically challenged i'm thinking he meant he's following conversations in threads? I don't think he's got time to be in gcs. Umbrogate was everywhere on every social media platform so i don't think he'd have to be in a gc to notice that discourse. I do think he pays attention to fandom talk and that good girl thing from him the second time was deliberate. He knew what he was doing.

[berlinini]

I don't get what is y'all's obsession with the hiatus tbh. There's nothing new to discuss because everyone already knew it was Harry's idea, so people in the fandom (larries) who defend him are looking the other way on purpose, and people outside simply don't care. Also obsessing over a band that's been dead for like six years seems like a waste of time if you stan an artist who is tying to build himself up and needs a healthy fandom to begin with.

AOTV revived the discourse, that's all.

[twelvedaysinaugust]

Would love your take on Louis’s use of pride flags in his promo, particularly in his latest AOTV stuff. Granted I know it’s hard to avoid them in fan shots, but when they are colorized against faded tones it is certainly feels very intentional. This could ofc just been seen as a nod to his fans but for someone for who claims gay rumors rub him up the wrong way this feels…odd. And yes, a team is involved, but certainly he must have some quick glance of approval for his Spotify canvases? Or have someone who knows he would be not ok with that (or other things) as part of the process?

But I guess that’s why some of us are still here. What he’s said doesn’t seem to always align with his behavior. I’m fine with him lying to protect himself and frankly it’s none of our business anyway…it just gives me a lot of cognitive dissonance. Like the comments you had on Sofie - he doesn’t want any speculation being publicly single for more than 5 mins - but he’s ok with the pride flags? And I do think it’s somewhat significant they are actual flags vs. just generic rainbow colors; it’s a meaningful symbol that I would hope he is using purposefully…

So I have much noped out of all the discourse the last few days because that shit does not spark joy. So my context for this ask is rather limited, but I do have general thoughts when it comes to this!

To me, it actually doesn’t create much cognitive dissonance. Quite the opposite, really. The thing about the rainbow Apple t-shirt and the associated fallout is that the article was pretty visible and mainstream. Like, I could see someone who maybe didn’t know much about Louis or 1D reading it and putting two and two together. With things like the colorized flags, I don’t think it’s going to reach anyone outside the fandom, nor do I think it would make people have questions about Louis’ sexuality. If people outside the fandom picked up on it at all, I think it would just be interpreted as a nice nod to queer fans.

[persephoneflouwers]

aotv trailer dropped and the kid is there and yea that’s the discourse.. nothing new in the trailer to be honest but the kid being there has upset a lot of ppl although I feel like it was expected that he’d be there but yea

Thank you, angel! I think it was to be expected. If you think about it, Louis has been literally training us and preparing us for the mega huge Babygate show for 2 years. I’m not going to lie and say I’m not upset, because of course I am. But looking back at the time I started keeping tracks of bbg content… it just hit me that was the plan all along. They/he wanted us to get constantly (at least once a month, often every two weeks for the past years), so now we all have this astonishment but we all kinda knew this was happening. See what they did there? They gave the ones who believe in it a narrative (ew) and the ones who don’t believe a reason to get ready for it.

I just got home, so I don’t know how bad it is. I don’t know what people’s reactions are and I don’t know what’s been said, but I can’t stop thinking of Young Louis getting the It is what it is tattoo on his chest, because that’s exactly it right? It is what it fucking is. It’s just sad, if you ask me.

But as always, I will sit back, relax and enjoy my flight.

[awesomefringey]

You can cut out the bg parts but it doesn't erase it. Louis still wants us to think Freddie is his son

Nonnie, I think this is where you’re wrong.

I don’t think Louis is inherently driven to use the kid as a punchline in a fandom disagreement.

That’s why I keep saying I’m not the target group, because those 2 minutes won’t wipe away 7 years for me. If he wants us to stop reminding people of it, I happily agree.

Let’s stop making this child a topic and let’s give him privacy, instead of creating UAs and snooping around his parent’s IG for family pictures.