#any scenario where wwx is locked up in the cloud recesses is like. mdzs bad ending for me though
Explore tagged Tumblr posts
grewlikefancyflowers · 2 years ago
Note
Hi,
Its me again.
I dont know if you have talked about this. But can you please explain the relation between the lan parents, the phoenix mountain kiss and LWJ telling LXC about "he wants to take a person to gusu". I have seen a lot of metas in fandom putting emphasis of LWJs loss of control on QHJ and about how he is not trying to become his father. The novel doesnt give us any evidence if QHJ forced madam lan in doing things nor do i think LWJ is someone who would have judged his father or mother's relationship with the limited information, so him thinking/fearing that he is "following his fathers footsteps" feels ooc to me.
Hello,
I'd say I both agree and disagree with what you say, in the sense that it is my opinion that LWJ was fearful of going down his father's path, but I do also think that fandom often portrays this in a way that seems OOC to me.
I think a problem that often comes up is that people in fandom like to fill in the gaps of the Lan parents' backstory, and have LWJ consider this version of the story they've invented to be the truth. Whereas in the novel I'd say it's important that LWJ knows nothing other than the bare minimum facts, as this is what fuels his conflict and uncertainty about it, and his conflict and uncertainty about his relationship with WWX too (in his first life).
This is all we're told about the Lan parents (sorry for the super long excerpt).
'Lan XiChen continued, “However, the woman did not care for him as much. In addition, she killed one of my father’s teachers. [...] “Why?!”
Lan XiChen, “I do not know. But, I assume that it was something along the lines of ‘grievances’.” [...] “And then,” Lan XiChen explained, “When my father heard of this, of course he was in much pain. But, no matter how he struggled, he still took the woman to his sect in secrecy. Ignoring the objections from his clan, he knelt with her for the Heavens and the Earth without making a sound and told everyone in the clan that she would be his wife for the rest of his life, that whoever wanted to harm her would have to pass through him first.” [...] “After the ceremony was completed, my father found a house and locked my mother inside. He found another house and locked himself inside. It was called secluded meditation, but it was in truth to repent.”
He paused before speaking again, “Young Master Wei, can you understand why he did such a thing?”
Wei WuXian answered after a moment of silence, “He could neither forgive the one who killed his teacher nor watch the death of the woman who he loved. He could only marry her to protect her life and force himself not to see her.”
Lan XiChen, “Do you think that this was right?”
Wei WuXian, “I don’t know.”
Lan XiChen looked somewhat lost, “Then, what do you think would be right?”
Wei WuXian, “I don’t know.”
The recurring theme throughout this whole scene is that both LXC and WWX don't know, they don't know the full facts of what happened, why Lan-furen killed that teacher, they don't know if it was right, they don't know what they would do in this situation, or what a solution would be. And we don't know if Lan-furen willingly went along with the plan so her life would be spared, or if she was forced. Even QHJ doesn't feel his actions were right, because he also locked himself up to repent.
The conflicts at the heart of wangxian's relationship in WWX's first life bares a lot of resemblance to LWJ's parents — LWJ has feelings for WWX, they appear to be unrequited. LWJ thinks WWX is at risk of harm, so LWJ wants to hide him away and keep him safe. But the only way to do so would be to keep him effectively imprisoned, because WWX would never stay voluntarily.
There is plenty of textual evidence that LWJ is fearful (sometimes to an extreme degree) of violating WWX's consent, but I think the primary cause of this fear is actually because of what happened on Phoenix Mountain, not because of his father. (Maaaaybe some of LWJ's conflict is also fuelled by his kinks, but most of the textual evidence comes after the Phoenix Mountain kiss, so I think that's the main factor. Also I just can't stand the LWJ angsting about his kinks trope lol)
Prior to that kiss, there are times when LWJ is actually very inconsiderate of WWX's autonomy, prime example being their confrontation post-burial mound when he simply decides WWX should come to Gusu with him, and grabs at him and fights him without even giving an explanation. When he does give one, its phrased as a command, not a suggestion. In my opinion, it's in this scene that LWJ makes the connection between his father's situation and his own, when WWX makes the assumption that LWJ intends to punish him with seclusion. From the moment WWX said that, LWJ doesn't speak & seems unable to defend his actions, then he leaves. I think it's also relevant that the Wen clan had attacked the Cloud Recesses, supposedly due to QHJ having committed some wrongdoing. Obviously this is just an excuse the Wen clan fabricated, as per their usual modus operandi, but considering this & QHJ's recent death, it's likely that his father, and thoughts of his moral failings, were weighing on LWJ's mind quite heavily at this point in the novel.
I spoke in depth about how the events on phoenix mountain prompted the 'but he is not willing' conversation with LXC in this post so I won't go into again here. In summary, it's because LWJ is confronted with his own fallibility, so he doubts himself and his intentions towards WWX.
While I don't think LWJ after the Phoenix Mountain kiss is thinking anything like 'oh no, I've violated the consent of the person I love, just like my father, an evil man!' as you sometimes see in fandom portrayals, I do think he cannot help but wonder. And because his situation and his father's situation have these similarities, I think he cannot help but compare himself to his father. Especially because he made WWX think he wants to imprison him. But rather than making assumptions about things he doesn't know, the uncertainty is what causes LWJ's internal conflict. For someone like LWJ, who generally places a lot of value of rules, precedent and tradition, the lack of clear answers about what he is supposed to do in this situation is a turmoil that he, at this point is his life, isn't well-equipped to handle.
LWJ's solution is to maintain the distance between him & WWX, to not push into in his affairs, even to take an injured WWX back to the burial mound just because he insisted, in his anguish, that LWJ get lost. But then, WWX dies thinking there is no one left in the world who cares for him.
26 notes · View notes
thejhambs · 4 years ago
Note
I love your MDZS thoughts, and there's something I wonder and I'd love your thoughts on it. It's a bit of two what-ifs. Do you think, if Wei WuXian had *realised* how LWJ felt about him before he died (or like... been outright told, cause how else would he have realised, this oblivious man.) he would have reciprocated it then... and if he had reciprocated, would LWJ have accepted it or not been ready for that.
thank you for reading my posts, haha, it's nice to know I'm not just screaming into the void!
I think, if Wei Wuxian knew about how LWJ felt, he would have immediately accepted his feelings. I think, he would never outright realize or at least, acknowledge any suspicion if he had any, because of his idolization of Lan Wangji, and his own belief in his inadequacy as a partner for Lan Wangji specifically.
Accepting it and what LWJ would be willing to give are very different answers. It really depends on the time period. If it was pre burning of lotus pier, during the sunshot campaign, or burial mounds with the Wens.
Pre burning of Lotus Pier, LWJ was kind of aware of his feelings, but repressing it. Not sure how much of this repression was due to him being gay, and how much was his admittedly violent sexual fantasies about WWX. Both would be extremely distressing to a very sheltered 15 year old living in an ancient time. If wwx found out in this time period, I imagine he'd be very enthusiastic about accepting LWJ's feelings. In this time, I wonder how much of an inferiority complex he has. Because, NGL, I'm going to say that his easy acceptance of a relationship with LWJ is a combination of "I'm morally corrupt either way, what's wrong with adding being gay to the mix?" and "if Lan Zhan, the epitome of purity, is okay with it, how wrong could it really be?".
LWJ could either be happy about WWX accepting him, or he would feel disgusted. IMO, he's likely to be happy, but guilty for turning WWX gay, which would be how he feels, even though it's obvious to us that that's not how this works.
During the sunshot campaign, we have WWX who feels disgusting and guilty. He's practicing demonic cultivation, has no golden core, and is torturing people. Not a good friend, or relationship material, and he knows it. If he figured out that LWJ is in love with him, he may push him away, both due to feelings of inadequacy, and fear of being taken out of the action. He's afraid that LWJ would lock him away, even if he loves him, and this fear wouldn't go away, because WWX isn't dumb, and knows what the consequences of the Lan Sect rules could be. LWJ's parents' story isn't known to him, but honestly, it's a logical progression of events, given the background of the sect. He did and would stay away from LWJ.
Tragically, this is around the time that LWJ decides to take a tiny stand. He can justify taking WWX back to Gusu, with minimal guilt. He still knows, in this scenario, his motives are slightly selfish, wanting to keep WWX around him, but it would be good for WWX, right? I also wonder in this time period... did LWJ intend to keep WWX captive? I mean, it could sound ridiculous, but he never denied it when WWX said that he wants to capture him. And, there's precedence in his family, as well. He certainly had no issue dragging the resurrected WWX kicking and screaming to Cloud Recesses, so, that's something I think about.
Then we have the Wen Burial Mounds time period. If WWX found out during this time, he would do absolutely nothing about it. Maybe fantasize for 2 seconds about what could have been, before focusing on the people he needs to protect, in a land which requires him to be on alert at all times to protect his people. If Lan Zhan asked to stay, he would imply that Lan Zhan isn't welcome, specifically because he is a high ranking cultivator from a prominent sect. All of these are things he did when LWJ visited the burial mounds, BTW.
It would make LWJ incedibly insecure. In this time period, LWJ probably considered defecting from his sect to join WWX. I have absolutely no doubt that he would have if WWX had asked him to. Why didn't he? Well, he wasn't sure if he'd be welcome, and he still has that self hatred eating him up, because he probably still has intense sexual attraction to WWX, which makes him feel like he isn't a good person. And, this is the time when he starts seeing WWX as an extremely good person, put in a situation where he literally has no other choice but to act the way he does. This is where LWJ's sense of inadequacy comes in. The optics of a high ranking cultivator wanting to do the things he wants to do (kinky sex) to WWX (a good person in an extremely high profile, but vulnerable position) is really really bad, and he knows that. I doubt he was thinking about capturing him at all in this time period.
Then WWX dies, and LWJ regrets every single inaction during his life. It leaves a lot of time for self reflection, and he probably wondered, if WWX didn't think LWJ hated him, would he have been more willing to accept his help? I don't think that LWJ took WWX's "go away" during the nightless city as more than the delirious ramblings they were. I mean, it probably still hurt A LOT, but I think LWJ knew wtf was going on. He was trying to confess because he thought WWX was dying. And, by then, the whole situation was set in stone, there was nothing that could have been done.
There's a lot of times in the book, where WWX basically accuses LWJ of hating him, and I'm guessing that those times stuck with him. I'm guessing that it's what made him so open and obvious with his feelings after WWX was resurrected.
17 notes · View notes