#anti-15x20

[passiveagressivepoet]

dean died because john winchester didn’t get him his tetanus shots

[t00muchheart]

The thing about a theoretical supernatural season 16 is that you could make it happen in so many ways and still have it be on-brand. Nothing is too camp or cringe for this show. Name a solution, it would work—it was all a dream? Sure. Resurrection? Been there. Time travel? We’ve done it. Just continue and have them fix problems in heaven? Plausible. The finale was just an amateur film made by someone (ghostfacers, fanfiction crew, etc.)? Not only makes sense but also explains the party city wig and blurry wife.

The options are endless, and almost anything you can think of is not only possible but can probably easily be made to make sense in-universe.

[whateverthedragonswant]

This might be a hot take but I've gotta get this off my chest:

I have seen so many times in the past two years the point being made by a particular section of the fandom that Sam was the hero of SPN, the "Luke Skywalker" of the series as Kripke himself stated, and that the finale ending made sense for not only Sam getting to live but also for Dean's ending. And in the very same breath, it's mentioned that the show was always about the brothers, no one else, that's what Kripke always wanted, etc., but this argument is always made from a very pro-Sam slanted/skewed anti-ship (and sometimes anti-Dean) point of view without taking into consideration of just how much the story of SPN evolved even before Kripke left the show.

Like say what you will about Sam being the hero of the story, and I'm not going to disagree with you about that being Kripke's original intention because you're right. Sam was the main protagonist; that's clear from the outset of the series. The whole first season is everything being told from Sam's POV. It's evident in every single episode in how each case has resolution thanks to Sam. He is made to be the hero. The whole arc of season 1 is about Sam being dragged back into this world due to his desire for revenge for what happened to Jessica which turns into something more aka Sam is naturally a hunter and he wants to help people/help his family->Dean. It's even Sam in the season finale that chooses a different way compared to John's quest for revenge by choosing Dean/his family over his revenge.

So, yes, you're right when you say in the beginning of the series that Sam was the hero/main protagonist. Absolutely. But what is not being mentioned/realized is that somewhere along the way, during Kripke's era, Dean's own story within the series became just as integral to the main story like Sam's as did their relationship as brothers. Kripke developed the story to include both. They both become essential to the main overhead arc of the entire show. The whole reason John and Mary even got together (through Heaven's intervention as per SPN canon) was to bring about both Sam and Dean's existence. Dean becomes the complement to Sam's role. We find out that Sam is the chosen vessel for Lucifer, and then we find out Dean is the chosen vessel for Michael, which leads to the showdown between Heaven and Hell essentially through the two. Both have a decision to make; both are tapped on the shoulders by both sides (i.e. Cas/Ruby); both are essential to the main plot while having their own separate arcs/journeys. Dean is no longer a side character or even the "Han Solo". His story is developed and we not only see his own hero's journey that he has to go on (when physically separate from Sam for example; going into the future though this is still intertwined with Sam's journey itself; going back in time, etc.) but his own desires, thought processes, relationships (outside of Sam), are also brought into the forefront for his story. Can this happen with side characters? Sure. But that's not what happens here because Kripke not only develops/beefs up Dean's story but also interweaves it with Sam's very carefully, to the point that the show doesn't work without both characters. Hence, Sam is no longer the sole main protagonist.

Which is why, for example, Dean is the one to kill the YED even though Sam had been determined to make YED pay for what happened to Jessica. And Kripke masterfully balances the main plot between the two as the show develops, so much so that we get payoff for Sam's journey (which leads up to Swan Song but I'll get to that in a moment), by fulfilling big plot points such as his killing Lillith and setting Lucifer free. He even still gets the hero's end by choosing to sacrifice himself to save Dean and the world in 5x22. Kripke beautifully takes Sam's original journey and tweaks it in such a way that while Sam had his dad's training and a similar quest for vengeance, he made a different decision and he did that while having much more on his shoulders (literally the weight of the world) than John ever did. And we still get payoff for what was initially set up way back in season 1. We get a close out to the Jessica story line, to Sam's powers story line, all of it, before Kripke dipped out.

And in the same fashion, we also got a closeout to Dean's story line. If he would ever get out of hunting, would he allow Sam to go into that dark night alone, would he be the same as John -- all of it.

So the ending to 5x22 absolutely makes sense. And we get: Dean surviving and going to live a "normal" life & Sam making the sacrifice (as the hero the series started out with) while also somehow surviving & making his way back to his brother. That's Kripke's ending. Now to be fair, Sam making his way back to Dean more likely had to do with them setting up the next season, but ultimately he wasn't dead after throwing himself and Michael into the pit.

Then in the later seasons, which some fans like to exclude or dismiss (but it's still part of Sam and Dean's official story), their stories were still integral to the main story but they had also evolved to include other characters (such as Cas, Jody, Donna, etc) and they had developed over the next ten years. So when looking at the series as a whole, Dean and Sam's endings in the series finale do not make sense. Kripke already got his ending in 5x22 and the show moved past that, and quickly set out to dismantle it in 6x01. This theme continued and the idea of free will became the center stage even more than it had in the first five seasons. By the time the last season rolled around, Dean and Sam had different desires, their stories had not only been completely intertwined to make both of them the main protagonists but both the heroes, and how their ends/hunting boots were hung up in the end would both matter.

So if you watched all of the seasons, 15x20 doesn't make sense. Because Dean and Sam wanted very different things by that point, they had both built relationships with other characters (Cas and Jack were the biggest ones but those two were not the only ones), and their story had effectively changed.

And if you didn't watch any of the later seasons (or you dismiss it), 15x20 still doesn't make sense because this wasn't the ending Kripke had for the seasons 1-5 Sam and Dean. If anything, it felt like it could have been 1x02 instead of the Wendigo episode, ending Dean and Sam's story in two short episodes with nothing in between.

That does not make sense.

Imagine we were discussing the show Buffy the Vampire Slayer. We all know how that ended (I'm talking TV only, not the comics). Buffy saved the world, she survived (finally!), and she was free from Sunnydale. Now imagine she had been killed off. Not only would it feel redundant but it wouldn't feel like a true ending for the story told over the past 7 seasons. What would have been the point of her being resurrected in season 6 then? What would have been the point of her relationship with Spike, Dawn, and the others? Could Joss Whedon have made it into another hero's sacrifice (instead of Spike doing the heroic/redeeming sacrifice), that she got Dawn, Willow, Xander, and the other Slayers ready to defend the world that she would die saving? Sure. But again, when you compare that ending to her story, it doesn't really make sense. There is no payoff, for the viewers or for the character of Buffy. She had earned that ending, the freedom from the Hellmouth and from the burden of being alone as the only Slayer (aka Chosen One). Which is why we get that great shot in the end:

Willow: "Yeah, the First is scrunched so...what do you think we should do, Buffy?"

Faith: "Yeah, you're not the one and only Chosen anymore. Just got to live like a person. How's that feel?"

Dawn: "Yeah, Buffy, what are we going to do now?"

The hero, who had already made the hero's sacrifice more than once, finally earned the ending that she wanted: freedom and the ability to choose to live her life for herself. The burden of being The Slayer had been removed and spread out to others (effectively building a network, hold that thought for a minute), she was no longer alone, she had defeated the Big Bad (which was effectively the Hellmouth since it kept creating/calling to these other Big Bads she faced over the years as well as the monsters she started out fighting), she might have more to face in the future, but it's up to her now what she wants to do. She is given the choice aka free will and that's what she earned after everything she had gone through during the duration of the show.

That's an ending.

This isn't:

Death wasn't supposed to be their ending. While some might be able to turn to you and say 'but they end up in Heaven together, they're at peace', that doesn't make it a payoff ending, for the viewers (early seasons only or all seasons) or for the characters of Sam and Dean. That's not effective storytelling. Neither ending was heroic or earned.

Dean dying, while again wouldn't make sense given the story, could have been painted as heroic if it happened during the battle with Chuck for example. Their final battle with the ultimate Big Bad. Even though they both died heroically quite a few times before this, it could have been done and while ultimately disappointing, it could have been the hero's end for Dean (just like Sam's end in 5x22 was the hero's end for him). This death wasn't heroic; instead it was from vampire stunt guy #4 who apparently juiced before that scene getting an upper hand on the hero and impaling him on a piece of sharp rebar. During a milk run hunt. Now imagine if that were Sam. Ask these people who think that by the end of the series that Sam was the only hero, ask them if that happened to Sam instead, would they still be praising the finale? Or imagine that was Buffy. That she survived like she does, the Hellmouth in Sunnydale was finally gone, only to be killed by a random forgettable vampire who she had faced off with in the first season and got away, only to suddenly return and take the hero out, thus negating the payoff/earned ending she and the viewers got. Doesn't make sense, right?

Now imagine if say Dawn was killed off in a similar way (though tbf Dawn's role was not the same as Dean's in the story) or during the battle, and we see Buffy living her life through the years, getting out of slaying, having a family which consists of a daughter she names Dawn, wearing her own Party City wig and looking at a picture of Dawn all teary-eyed, dying in her sleep as an old lady, and then reuniting with her in Heaven. It doesn't work. Not only because Dawn had a very different role in the show when it came to the main story but also because it DOESN'T WORK. What kind of hero's end is that? What payoff is that? Is it great that Sam gets to choose to get out of hunting and have a family? Sure. But that's not where his story was headed, in later seasons, or even during Kripke's era.

Going back to the network thing I mentioned with Buffy, Sam had done that. Not only were there strong hints of leader!Sam near the end of the series, but he had effectively built a network of hunters for a time until Alt!Michael killed them all. But he and Dean still had a network going through Jody, Donna, Claire, even Jack until he turned God!Jack. Wayward Sisters might not have taken off when it first aired but the point was made: a hunter network still existed. And these characters, this network, even though not shown in the finale, still survived no matter what happened with Sam and Dean in the end. Why is this important? Because not only does it extend the hunting universe, but it also removes the burden from the heroes' shoulders. So they could have gotten out of hunting if they wanted to, just like Buffy could have laid down her axe (or stake). The heroes had earned it.

So for Dean to die on a random hunt and for those few to say that it was being foreshadowed this whole time with Dean's quotes (from before season 15 btw) and a proper ending to his story...they really don't know what show they were watching or how storytelling works in general. Because when they say that, they negate Dean's whole arc of season 15 (while also negating his whole series arc). Dean was angry in the beginning of the season because he thought not only had his free will been taken from him, but also because he thought he hadn't had any free will this whole time. There's a reason why he says what he says to Cas in 15x02. There's a reason why he was so gung ho on letting Jack sacrifice himself, and only once once Sam and Chuck say what they say in 15x17 does Dean make a different choice: his family (and the world) vs his own desire (his idea of free will, not fully realizing that he's actually utilizing it by making that choice). It's only when he chooses not to kill Chuck in 15x19 that he is completely self-aware and that he is using his free will to make a choice. A choice that affects how the Big Bad is ended/defeated. "That's not who I am."

He was given the hero's choice and he made it. And his decision was the right one that had payoff from not only the events in 15x17 and 15x18 but for his overall story. That's why what Cas says to him in 15x18 about who he is as a character was so important. It set Dean up to not only have self-realization but to also act upon it. Think about how many times over the years Sam and other characters have told Dean this about himself but he never really believed it. Why? Because he hadn't reached that part of his journey yet. Because he hadn't reached the end of it yet. So it makes perfect sense how 15x17, 15x18, and 15x19 play out. This is the appropriate ending battle for not only Dean but Sam as well:

This was the hero's sacrifice they made. They could have been killed from Chuck beating on them as he did. He could have chosen to snap his fingers at any point. They made the sacrifice in order to get Jack the time and energy he needed to power up to overpower Chuck. And they never stayed down no matter the pain, no matter the potential of their deaths at Chuck's hand. They refused to give it up. This is why Sam helps Dean back up and why they're laughing/smiling. Because they know that no matter what happens to them, Jack/the world is going to win. "Why are you smiling?" "Because...you lose." And their sacrifice not only hands victory over to the new generation aka Jack but also instates the new God who replaces Chuck aka The Big Bad of the entire series. EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS SCREAMS HERO.

So it's not only payoff for Jack's story (as well as Chuck's) but also for Sam and Dean's. And both brothers were the heroes. Which is why Sam tells Chuck that he loses and Dean tells him that they won. Why both of them tell Chuck about their plan that they formed together (and Jack doesn't say a word). Which is why Chuck says he's going to die at both of their hands, both Sam and Dean look at each other, and then Dean makes the choice not to kill Chuck. "See, that's not who I am. That's not who we are." Because they both were the heroes and main protagonists of the series. Something that Kripe had set up long before 5x22.

"What kind of an ending is this?" One the heroes had earned. Chuck as the Big Bad wanted violence and death, an ending he would be entertained by. And even for an ending he hadn't imagined for himself (where he loses), he still expected a grisly death at the hands of the heroes. Had either Winchester done that, then Chuck would have gotten what he wanted and it wouldn't be the heroes' end that they had earned.

This was the ending that Sam and Dean earned:

The choice to continue on if they wanted or to get out of hunting for good. To go see Jody, Donna, and the girls, or go get Cas out of The Empty, or go on milk run hunts for a while, or even to go to a freaking baseball game (screw you, John!); the point is it was their choice. That's what they had earned by the end of the series.

The ending that Chuck earned was not only the worst he could imagine but it was punishment for everything he had done. Both brothers say as much:

Sam: "I think it's the ending where you're just like us. And like all the other humans you forgot about."

Dean: "It's the ending where you grow old, you get sick, and you just die."

Sam: "And no one cares. And no one remembers you. You're just forgotten."

This was not the heroes' ending or the ending both characters had earned/deserved:

This was:

For the ones who insist that Dean's sacrifice was the right ending for his story and that he got a new Heaven as a reward are incorrect. Heaven wasn't what Dean wanted, not before he got what he earned.

For the one who insist that Sam's ending was right for his story and that he got to have a family and choose to get out of hunting as a reward are incorrect. Sam wanted Dean to be a part of that life (however it looked) and he had no desire to get out of hunting by the time the series came to an end.

15x20 is not the right ending for either Winchester.

And for those who say that Dean hadn't become one of the heroes in the series or that the finale was right because Sam was the sole main protagonist by the end (or even Kripke's ending in 5x22) clearly weren't paying attention. Not only did Sam not get the heroes' end or the end he wanted and earned, but neither did Dean who had been developed into the other main protagonist of the series, by the series creator himself before he left the show.

Bonus:

15x20 was not their real finale and here's how you know:

Next shot (after cutting to black):

Nothing after it.

SPN:

Next shot (after fading to black):

And then:

(while still in costume, the two leads thanking the fans and then the crew/bridge drone shot complete with show music)

Compare this to how 15x19 ended as well. We get the montage, the drive off shot, and then the scene from 1x01 of Sam shutting the trunk of the Impala as Dean watches. Then cuts to black.

That's their finale.

[asshole-outlaw]

As he should

[lolaused2run]

Hey remember when Jensen was so upset about the series finale he went to talk to the writers & they told him to "take it or leave it" & then had to be convinced to "take it" & then actively changed the barn scene so at least Dean was able to stay on his feet the whole time?

And then he created a whole prequel just to show his character actually wasn't just aimlessly waiting around for his brother to show up, & started talking about rebooting the series as soon as it ended, as if he was thoroughly dissatisfied with the ending? Yeah, me too

[freakoutjess]

i don't hate the SPN finale but i also don't love it. would i have loved it better if dean didn't die? obviously. but if they did have to make one of the brothers die and have it constitute a 'happy' ending or even a hopeful one, the one to die would have to be dean. if sam had died in the end, either we would get 10 more seasons or it would end in a very VERY dark place which i don't think post-season 5 had the guts to do in any of the season finales.

but 15x20 is also where we got the samdean "it's always been you" speech so whatever complaints i have about the episode, it would be overruled.

[mybrainproblems]

sam in 01x16: "i don't want to do this forever"

sam in 15x20: dies in a party city wig with a son who has an anti possession tattoo

[cpopnatural]

15x20 Notes

-THE CAS IN THE PREVIEW??????

-OH THEY WERE SICK

-the happy music.

-uhhhhhhh pie haha isn’t it funny

-yeah I miss Cas too. Anyway. Pie time

-THE FUCKING CLOWNS HAHAHA

-Singer and Kripke fuck off

-they left the woman alive but cut off her tongue? Classic SPN silencing women

-unserious ass show!!!

-the fact that this whole case is just set up to ensure Dean dies. So fucking stupid

-are we just on this earth to suffer

-I need to get drunker

-THE REBAR IN THE BACKGROUND OF THE BARN

-why are we bringing back this random woman

-REBARRRRR

-this is so contrived

-they really test Jackles to his limit rn and he’s past. It

-he does not look like he’s dying?

-YOU WERE JUST TALKING LAST EPISODE ABOUT HOW YOU CAN CHOOSE YOUR OWN ENDING WHAT IS THISSSSSS

-what theme does this convey. What does any of this mean

-whyyyyyyyy the fucking incest bait

-WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE

-why is he monologuing go to a hospital!!!!!!

-it tries too hard to make you feel sad but none of this is earned

-NO AMERICANA YOU DID NOT DESERVE AMERICANA YOU STUPID EPISODE

-JARPAD????? HAHAHAHAHAHA

-no one at Dean’s funeral except Sam. Whatever

-I like Sam but Sam can not carry the last half of this episode. Or should I say Jarpad can not

-when do we get to see white wig jarpad

-“that kid of yours”……..

-the fucking look Bobby gives after “Cas helped” is so funny. Auntie telling you a boy stopped by earlier looking for you (I’m delusional)

-the car in fucking heaven

-stop with the Carry On dude

-Dean Jr akdjskdhs

-if they were being realistic they would have Dean Jr wearing one of those Southern ass monograms

-we skipped over blurry wife on accident

-WHITE WIG JARPAD YESSSSS

-Dean Jr with the anti possession tattoo

-why he look like old John Mulaney here

-don’t make me listen to the acoustic cover of Carry on My Wayward Son

-is this the fucking Glee cover or something. Why are we listening to it twice

-THE STUPID FUCKING BRIDGE

-no cello Americana. Be so for fucking real

-this is the evil version of the time they panned out from Dean and Cas staring at each other

-POST CREDITS SCENE??????

-I feel like I’m being attacked

-everyone on there and not Misha. Sick and twisted

-I think I said “what are we doing here” about 20 times.

0/10. A failure on all fronts. No other episode has made me question my life like this

[thereisnolumos]

The perfect ending

15x19 - Inherit the Earth

[whateverthedragonswant]

I was thinking about Dean Winchester today, as one does, and I was thinking about that finale again.

While I don't agree with the whole Dean death route as his endgame, it drives me crazy every time I think about how they could have just made a small tweak or two in the writing to make it work better and have a much bigger emotional impact. They could have made it work for them on so many levels and just chose not to. It literally was right there.

I've said in the past that had Dean been shoved into that godforsaken rebar in lieu of one of the kids, then that would have worked better than the random push out of nowhere that we got. Now, I think what would have worked even better than that is had Dean been pushed in lieu of Sam. Hear me out.

Dean and Sam have a toxic codependency during the show that the writers worked hard to break in their development as characters outside of that dynamic. It didn't take away from the brothers being the main characters of the story line or their whole dynamic but chose to develop them healthier (as much as it could be in that story line) and fill them out as individuals while still preserving the Winchester brothers dynamic as the heart of the show and as the center the story revolved around.

One of the earmarks of this toxic codependency is that they are both willing to jump to sacrifice themselves (and everyone else) for each other. Many other characters throughout the series remark on this very thing, to the boys themselves. It's a lesson that they are meant to learn and we see both characters attempting to at times, i.e. Sam telling Dean not to look for him & to go live his life before the end of season 5. Now, while Dean saving Sam might seem like more of the same, here is where the whole tragedy part comes in that actually could have worked.

In the beginning of 15x20, we see Dean with Miracle, we see him at a pie festival and spending time with Sam, doing a milk run hunt, while also planning to get out of hunting (the application on his desk). So for him to die unexpectedly on a hunt is indeed tragic but it's even more tragic because he actually was trying to get out. But it was to save his brother (after them saving the kids aka the world, & literally the world in 15x19). Something that Dean has always seen as his responsibility (taking care of his younger brother) but in this light, not because he feels it's his duty as his father programmed him to do, but because of how much he loves his younger brother. It would no longer be part of that toxic codependency.

Which could have then perfectly led to the emotional barn death scene monologue and tied back to the pilot in a more meaningful and beautiful way for both characters.

While it still would have angered a lot of fans (myself included) because this wasn't supposed to be Dean's endgame based on what the series was leading to (which is why 15x19 makes more sense as an ending to the whole journey the brothers went on; people can hate on later seasons all they want but they happened and they told a story that had evolved from earlier seasons while maintaining the core of the whole series). But if it had to happen, it could have been done so much better just by a small tweak like that alone. (like instead of Party City wig Sam and that whole mess, we could have seen a younger/sort-of-present-day Sam doing the exact same scene & still grieving Dean that would not allude to Sam living a half life).

This would have kept the brothers' dynamic intact, kept them as the center/heart of the story and given that perfect brothers ending, set Sam up to (sadly) be the one part of the Winchesters Family 1.0 to survive and move forward (and though I hate this idea, set up Dean 2.0/a future generation of hunters), and given Dean not only more dignity in his passing but also make sense for his character. Sam has always been one of Dean's primary motivations as a character as well as family (which is why his goal mentioned alongside those two motivations in The Winchesters 1x13 works on a level that the rebar/his time in Heaven in 15x20 SPN didn't); this would have maintained that important part of his arc in a way that would have worked and helped to bring that tragic factor to it organically.

Tragic for Dean because he never got to get out of hunting even though he had been on the verge. Tragic that he was at that moment just starting to figure out what he wanted after this long war his father had signed him and Sam up for was over. Meaningful because he died protecting/saving Sam and the last remnant of his original family. Meaningful because he made the choice, something a hero is supposed to get.

Tragic for Sam because he lost Dean (aka his brother/best friend/parent), something he has done time and time again, but also feared. Tragic because now every single member of his original family is gone. Meaningful because Dean "protected" him and as the Dean antis always like to say, he would be the final girl standing. Meaningful because he now gets to make choices, something a hero is supposed to get (not a half-lived life or unable to move on from his brother's death aka showcasing that toxic codependency again).

If this tweak was made, I believe it would have been a better finale that still wouldn't fit in after 15x19 (again, the story had evolved in later seasons) but would have made much better sense in the series as a whole and a beautiful yet tragic close out to the brothers' story.

[kvitka97]

Never happened… tag your fanfic properly kids.

Hey besties, gonna say first up that I do not know how accurate this information is, but considering I got it from the mouth of a guy that worked on the last two episodes of Supernatural, I’m going to take this information as true and factual. Okay. I was on a Supernatural filming tour in Vancouver and our guide was a camera operator for the final two episodes and he got to read the original script for the final episode. LET ME TELL YOU, the whole killing off Kansas and Ellen’s Roadhouse thing was correct, BUT, the part about Jimmy being there and not Cas??? Yeah no. Dude man said that in the script it was Cas that was there and Dean met him in the Roadhouse and confessed back to him and embraced “not as a friend but as a lover would”. !!! They confirmed that Dean was bisexual because in heaven he realised that he didn’t need to ‘perform’ anymore and could just be his true self. BUT WAIT, THERES MORE. Because of covid Misha wasn’t travelling to Vancouver to film the final episodes. Jensen pushed to wait until they could do it properly but the script was changed to how it is now. So yeah, there you go.

[anmolsmsblog]

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[couragehopelovefaith]

I still hate 15x20 of SPN with a burning and harming passion. Got it. Good to know.

[tickingtimetilltwelveseventeen]

Seasons 6+ Rewrite

Heyloo 👋

I am in need of some assistance for fic writing purposes. Everybody is doing a rewrite, and I want in lol.

To that end, what are the storylines or plot points from Season 6 onward that just didn't make sense to you? Here's my list of what I have so far (pardon the grammar - it's late where I am and I can't be bothered with punctuation):

Dean never getting the chance to explicitly show himself as bisexual.

No references to The Lost Years (i.e. the year between Seasons 5 and 6 and the year between 7 and 8)

Cas/Crowley were somehow able to get into Lucifer's Cage to get Sam's body. Like, I get that they couldn't get his soul, but accessing the Cage at all kinda negates the drama of the entire 5th season.

Alpha Monsters and Eve storyline completely dropped.

Civil War in Heaven not given enough screentime

Cas removing Lisa's and Ben's memories of Dean

Literally everything about the Leviathan

Becky essentially mindraping (and almost actual raping) Sam into marriage

Bobby's death

Sam choosing not to go after Kevin at the end of Season 7

Kevin and Charlie never met

The angels got nerfed

Oz

Kevin's death

Dean's only a demon for 3 episodes

Cole

The Stynes

Charlie's death

Killing Death

The British Men of Letters

Amara bringing Mary back

The alternate universe (because I want the REAL Bobby, Kevin, and Charlie, not Alt!ones)

Not killing Lucifer for good at the end of Season 12

Kaia's death

Missouri's death

Benny's (apparent?) death

Not getting the closure we actually needed from John's return episode

Not exploring Michael and Adam enough

That Cas was the one thing Chuck couldn't control or predict. Don't get me wrong, part of that sentiment is BEAUTIFUL and like the reverse soulmates AU idea I never realized I needed, but I think it discredits Dean (and Sam, and all the other characters, for that matter) and the choices he made after averting the Apocalypse. I'd prefer if all 3 of them fucked everything up in this universe rather than Cas alone.

Everything about the last 2 episodes

On a related note, here are storylines I hated but don't necessarily think should be rewritten:

Sam choosing a "normal" life with Amelia. While I definitely think that he should have gotten Kevin first, I can understand him giving up Dean and Cas both as dead and immediately retiring once Kevin was "safe".

God being the final villain. I go back and forth on whether or not they should have gone in this direction, to be honest. On the one hand, I love the originality of it and the implied fuck you it gives to both the writers and religious despots worldwide, but I liked Chuck too much as a neglectful parent rather than an openly abusive one. Neglect is its own brand of abuse, and I think they should have explored the concept of him just not caring more than the idea that he cared too much and hated what happened to his perfect story.

Cas's deal with The Empty, if only for the sheer angst potential.

[noegrl83]

I agree that the last 2 episodes were it. The rest of the season was straight trash (sorry not sorry 🤷🏿‍♀) i mean they hunted ghosts in the middle of the afternoon in 4k high def bright contrast for Christ sake🙄 the only thing i would have pulled from the finale is the idiotic ICP sale rack knockoffs😑 I mean...was BELLA NOT AVAILABLE!!??! even ruby getting her sweet sweet revenge would have been a better serve! Lol...oh and also sams wig...in fact his hair ALL season😭 (i swear a heller infiltrated the H&M department😂 lol!)

I’m not sure I fully trust anyone who thinks Season 15 of Supernatural is great. I think it’s 14 or 15 in my order of “favourite” seasons.

But if you do love it, why?

If you also aren’t a fan, what bothered you the most about it?

(Disclaimer: I mostly like the last two episodes and a couple others, so I’m not saying there is no good there. Just not a lot.)

[rustyoldfangirl]

You know what bothers me the most?

It's not being baited for years, it's not being treated like dirt and tossed aside, it's that in the end HATE conquered LOVE...

Bibros won... They literally hated every character beside Sam and Dean... They hated their wives...

But we hellers?

We loved deancas but we Also loved Eileen, we loved Jody, we loved Charlie, we loved Claire, we loved Kaia, we loved Rowena, crowly, we loved Donna, Bobby, Ellen.... We loved Genevieve and Daneel, we loved every one.... But in the end? The haters won...

Hate conquered... And that's a terrible message