#anti tfatws

[logansgaar]

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was not a show written or directed by people who liked either of the characters it was about.

[gay-jewish-bucky]

rocket really got the arc bucky (also) should have had, huh?

[breckstonevailskier]

Honestly, if anyone was out of line here, it's the Dora Milaje for trying to kill Walker and Lemar because Walker touched one of them.

[buckydeservesthebest]

Oh God... this scene...

Bucky suffers from depersonalization disorder as a result of the already severe C-PTSD, exposing himself to the same experience that caused that C-PTSD originally is terribly damaging to his psyche! I can't even imagine the level of trauma so profound that he must have experienced at that time! And the fact that this was never once mentioned... makes it clear that Bucky's mental health is not important at all to marvel.... all they've done with that is make it seem like Bucky just swallows that pain and gets over it, just like that... A vile "man up"...

But again, the situation is barely saved by Seb's excellent performance, because if we look closely, as the fight scene flows, you can see that the outline of Bucky's eyes and his nose start to turn red... and you can see a slight layer of tears in his eyes at the end...

Not only that, throughout that scene Bucky grimaces with effort all the time, and it's not effort for the physical act of fighting those mercenaries, because as a super soldier he's dozens of times stronger than them... the grimaces are of effort and pain for having to pretend he's the Winter Soldier, for all that trauma he's living and swallowing without expressing his suffering even for a moment...

From the look Bucky gave Zemo immediately after he gave him the order to attack, I'm pretty sure that part of the plan is something Zemo didn't tell him before he agreed to impersonate the Winter Soldier.... Zemo forced Bucky into a situation where he had no choice but to fight and make it look as realistic as possible, because otherwise everyone would be put in a scenario where someone might actually get killed. And yet Bucky restrained himself enough by always using non-lethal strikes.

I'm sure it was the need to stay in character at all costs that kept Bucky from shedding a tear...

This... this is an undeniable expression of absolute sadness and restrained tears... and it tear my soul apart... 😭😭😭😭😭😭💔💔💔💔

BUCKY BARNES’ HOTTEST MOMENTS

7. 83/161 votes | Bucky pretending to be the Winter Soldier in Madripoor in Power Broker [prev]

[logansgaar]

Peter curing Norman instead of killing him, even when the Goblin just stabbed Peter 2 in front of him, because he knew Norman was not mentally cognizant of his actions and would've never otherwise hurt May paints a whole different light on Tony going after Bucky and Peter's loyalty to him.

I think it'd be interesting to see that debate/see how that influences Peter's rose-tinted glasses, posthumously too.

Neither Norman nor Bucky had a choice in what they did, they only differ in that Norman tested on himself and Bucky was experimented on, so Bucky had even less autonomy than Norman (yet he was made to atone...wtf). Just...gah Marvel really missed an opportunity there. This isn't about who's right or who's wrong btw, just addressing how much May's death and Norman and the Green Goblin would inform Peter's perspective on Tony (given he has now gone through exactly the same thing as Tony did, only he witnessed it happen, and made a different call.)

Peter had the chance to continue and didn't, I think that's an incredibly powerful sign that he isn't Tony's protégé anymore.

[gay-jewish-bucky]

he was so beautiful here 🥺

too bad they never released anything from the show this was from except this one clip and this is the only time we've seen bucky in the mcu since he dusted i miss him so much😭

[six-demon-bag]

🎶 hello darkness my old friend 🎶

[logansgaar]

this is why Bucky has a different therapist in my fic series, because the one mandated to him in tfatws was making him worse and she was not only grossly unprofessional and at times smugly cruel to him, but it was a crushing sign that marvel really only cares about depicting mental health journeys when it's Tony.

Tony's issues stemmed from a completely different place than Bucky's so their arcs cannot be written with the same angle, yet they are.

Tony's journey was rightfully about atonement because his sins were his own making, he chose to do what he did prior to reforming. Bucky is completely different, same as characters like Natasha and Gamora; Bucky does not need to atone for anything because he was as much a victim as those he was made to kill.

I always hated the gag about the "notebook thing" because Bucky's spent decades seeing hundreds of abusive strangers scribble down notes about him that he was never permitted to see or have disclosed to him, never knowing if those notes would lead to more agony or "just" being frozen again. He was placed under a huge amount of dehumanizing scrutiny with zero disclosure or consent, and it's horrific that his THERAPIST identified that trigger and used it as a power play over him....

View on Twitter

Since it came up recently, link to that therapist on twitter 👆 who was discussing Bucky’s terribile therapist in TFATWS and how they should’ve been. 

Transcript:

“As a therapist myself I’ve had a lot of feelings about Bucky’s therapist on TFatWS, and have decided I need to rant a little to let it all out. I’ve worked w/active duty, trauma survivors, and court ordered clients, so here’s some therapeutic conjecture on Bucky’s therapy:

Aesthetically her office and presentation don’t fit for someone who has been through the trauma that he’s been through. A client like this would need something non-threatening and safe- the whole vibe is overly formal and official in an office building, not at all therapeutic.

6 months working together she calls him Mr. Barnes and then James-he has identity issues and is struggling with who he is, so I think that one of the 1st things they would have done is figure out what he is comfortable being called, by whom and what that means for him.

He is still full out lying to her about pretty much everything including PTSD sx—I’m not saying clients never lie if they have good therapists, but if after 6 months he still doesn’t feel like he can be truthful at all then they haven’t built any trust/ solid therapeutic rapport

The pen and notebook thing-that’s clearly a trigger for him, there’s no reason to antagonize him and take notes in session like a punishment, it’s a power play on her part and it only emphasizes his lack of control in being forced into therapy (she should know his hx w/notebooks)

The whole little arm motion she made when she said “they need to make sure you don’t…” – that made so much light of what has happened to him, he probably feels like his arm is only good as a weapon and things like that will not help him accept it as part of his body

The rules, UGH the rules—from how they were talking about them clearly not something he actively created for himself, more like directives that he’s been ordered to adhere to—something fed to him and reinforced, feels like a way to sign off on liability only

THE AMENDS—this is probably my biggest issue. Amends are for people who need to take accountability for their actions and the repercussions of those choices. He had NO choice. He was a victim of horrific crimes against him, and framing it in a way that he needs to make up for

the crimes that others used him for is abhorrent. The lack of trauma informed care as astounding in the way it is being framed that he has to atone for sins that weren’t his. Its clearly reinforcing the idea in his head in ep 2 when he says “HYDRA were my people”.

NO, HYDRA were your captors. They were not your people. That type of thinking needs to get deconstructed and challenged. He can dedicate himself to bringing good into the world and righting wrongs that happened WITHOUT taking on the responsibility of those actions.

Her whole attitude and demeanor were condescending and demeaning. I know some people have said “I love how she calls him out on his bullshit!” That’s not what I see happening. I call my clients out on their shit all the time—this was not that.

And I can only do that with clients ONCE we’ve built the type of relationship where it’s going to be therapeutic for them to hear it, and it’s done intentionally and with purpose. She just came off shaming and mean because they don’t seem to have any form of therapeutic rapport.

She said “you have no history, no family”- there is no therapeutic reason for that, and she’s wrong. He most likely has family alive (he used current tense when talking about his sister) and he was close to Shuri and TChalla, his history is vital to understanding him

When she said “Look, I know that you have been through a lot, but you’ve got your mind back. You are being pardoned. These are good things. You’re free.”—Yeah this feels really dismissive and like toxic positivity. “I know you’ve been through a lot BUT BE HAPPY!!??”

He certainly doesn’t seem to feel like he’s free (especially having therapy mandated), and you can’t just tell someone they’re free. I felt like she was pretty much just like, “shake it off, look to the future!” which feels really shitty when you’ve experienced excessive trauma.

HELLO breach of confidentiality, just introducing herself to Sam as his therapist and confirming it to Walker and the whole police station, it doesn’t matter if they know he’s in therapy you do not break someone’s privacy like that, he still deserves some control over his tx.

Ordering Sam into a session, NO, he’s not your client and you don’t know him well enough to know if that’s appropriate or if it would be harmful to either, and you haven’t asked your client for his consent to have another person in his session

Forcing a trauma victim who was stripped of his bodily autonomy for 70 years into a physically intimate exercise with a coworker that he’s barely interacted with in the last several months? NOPE, just reinforcing to Bucky she has control over him the way his handlers used to

To me, I think she is more focused on signing off on his psychological eval that he isn’t a liability rather than any actual healing or attention to his trauma. This unfortunately isn’t unusual in the military where “mental health treatment” is focused on being mission ready.

They are making sure he’s ready to be an “asset” w/ mandated therapy, which he shouldn’t even be forced to do as part of his pardon because he shouldn’t have needed a pardon at all because he was a victim of horrific war crimes, brainwashing, and dehumanization for 70 years.

I’m just saying, if that was me he would be on my big squishy couch, bright open windows, bowl of Hershey kisses, random fidget toys, and two therapy dogs laying all over him while we work through that trauma and he builds back his identity and finds the calm he wants so badly.

And yes he would probably need someone who would see through his BS, call him out when he needs it, not be overly “touchy feely”, but only if he feels safe and there is trust, where he gets to work on what HE wants, not what others think he needs.

Anyway thanks for coming to my TEDTalk, I❤️my work and I think being a therapist on retainer for the Avengers would’ve been a fucking trip, they all needed a team of mental health professionals at their disposal 24/7 and things would’ve been so much better🤣

ps. They can be a good therapist and just not be a fit for the client, that happens regularly. We know when to make it part of the conversation and when to refer out. Nothing good is going to come out of a contemptuous therapeutic relationship, mandated or not.

pps. That whole situation and the scene with Zemo was so rough. I can’t imagine how much it brought back the violation, humiliation, anger, and helplessness of when he was the WS. I’m just imagining him having a therapist he trusts and being able to process that afterwards 😭😭😭"

[musette22]

may i ask why haven’t you watched tfatws? i’ve recently started following you, you don’t watch mcu anymore?

Hi there! Of course you can ask, I don't mind at all. I understand why you'd wonder about that, seeing as this blog is quite heavy on the marvel-related content lol. Basically, I stopped watching mcu movies and shows after Endgame, because it pretty much destroyed all faith I had left in marvel thanks to the way it (in my opinion) royally fucked up Steve's character arc and made all the wrong calls regarding his relationship with Bucky.

It just made me so unbelievably sad and angry, and I hated that, because I genuinely believe that fandom should be about what makes you happy and that was just not the case for me for a while there. So eventually I just decided that it was just better for me to distance myself from canon the mcu, and focus on the things that did still bring me joy, i.e. the headcanons and stories that we as a fandom have created, based on the canon material but diverging enough from it too to make it actually - in my opinion - good and enjoyable (I usually just call it fanon, though I know that's got inherently negative connotations too, but you know what I mean).

I've always been a Stucky shipper first and foremost. Those two boys are a package deal for me, and thinking about - let alone seeing - one of them without the other genuinely upsets me. So unfortunately, that means I can't enjoy any new Bucky content in the mcu anymore either, because it's Bucky in a world where Steve left him, and that's just not a world I want any part of, if that makes sense. So I'm sticking with my own version of events, which is that Bucky and Steve are enjoying life together somewhere, and I'm just going to leave the new movies and shows for others to enjoy!

[logansgaar]

Watching Isaiah Bradley's mind control play out in CABNW: this is literally why Bucky kept him a goddamn secret even from Steve, after Isaiah had to fake his death to escape and live in some semblance of peace, and publicizing him without asking his permission first was a fucking dangerous thing to do the poor man's safety what the hell were the tfawts writers thinking

[a-hyperfixating-fanatic]

@thefallenbibliophilequote explained some large problems of TFATWS in the tags and I thought I should share.

It's fascinating to me how a lot of the people who were fans of Bucky from caws and cacw era seem to be the ones calling out the inconsistencies, ooc, and ableist stuff with his character in tfatws. While the people who weren't fans of his character or even disliked him now like his character in tfatws a lot more.

Before I start, I wasn’t a Bucky fan until I started watching TFATWS. I’ve been saying CATWS is one of my favourite MCU movies for years, but uh…the reason I loved it wasn’t for Bucky, per se. And let’s just say when I went to the US around the timing of CACW, the Tsum Tsum I bought wasn’t of Team Cap. I definitely didn't dislike him, but if you asked me my favourite MCU characters before this year, I don’t think he’d even be in the top 5. So...uh, anomalies do happen.

I'd be really curious about people who disliked him before TFATWS then found him likeable. I wonder what changed their mind?

As for why older fans are disappointed - as always with disappointment, it's the mismatch between reality and expectation. I think there's a couple of things here.

From a canon point of view, Bucky was established as a caring, supportive and loyal friend in CATFA. While we didn't see much of his personality in CATWS, we saw the torture he was subjected to, his vulnerability in the hands of his captors, and his heartbreak when all of the lies came apart. In CACW he was standoffish with people he didn't trust, but there was also a surprising softness and a dogged protectiveness in spite of everything he had been through. This is carried over in BP, IW and EG, as brief as his scenes were (kudos to Sebastian) -- there was gentleness, there was a quiet pain, there was stoic determination, and there was the trustworthiness.

Now from the fandom side, 7 years is a long time for things to brew - head canons, metas, hot takes, alternative explanations, fanfics...and all of that bleed into fans' impressions of Bucky's character. Again, Sebastian brought more to the story than Bucky's handful of lines, but there's a lot that isn't explicitly depicted that could be extrapolated, such as how much torture Bucky had to undergo to lose his sense of identity. There's also a lot of blanks in his story that invite theories, such as what his family life was like, what sort of work he did before he joined the military, what sort of hobbies he had etc. Fans who have lived with him for 7 years have a fully-fletched person they're carrying into the start of TFATWS.

But in TFATWS, we are introduced to a different Bucky, one that is raw and irritable, bordering on careless and petulant. It was an acceptable starting point, as his grief and anger and guilt are all believable emotions for what he's experienced, but the series then refuses to address any of the underlying issues.

It is afraid to talk about the hurt Steve's decision caused him (and Sam!) and circles around Steve's meaningless absence. It ignores the pain Hydra has caused him over 70 years of torture and forces him to amend for the pain Hydra caused others. It dismisses the importance of body autonomy to a Prisoner of War like him, and makes several jokes about enslavement, body modifications and "disarming". It drives him into uncharacteristically irrational and thoughtless actions -- when canon told us Bucky was someone who cautiously stayed under the radar for 2 long years even while amnesiac and confused.

It flaunted Bucky's pain and anger and guilt while sweeping all the causes of his pain and anger and guilt under the rug, then it told us he was healed by "owning" what happened and that's my villain origin story.

TFATWS did not match up to older fans’ expectations of Bucky’s character, his arc, or his interactions with Sam. I think a small part of that is fanon getting in the way, but a much larger part is TFATWS ignoring established canon, particularly the issues that made Bucky a unique and sympathetic character.

[gay-jewish-bucky]

@fghtinus i accidentally sent the ask too early but yes they did, very poorly (bc this is the mcu and they are incapable of compassionate representation), but yeah it's canon

here are some posts that talk about it x and x

(major trigger warning for graphic and frank discussions of sexual abuse)

[miabucky]

just read an interview from the director about how we’re apparently supposed to LIKE john walker. THAT was them writing him as likeable. maybe it’s just wyatt’s acting or something but i have never been so put off by a character in my entire life. the villainy just radiates off him. unsettling costume self-righteous attitude violent outbursts literally written like every fascist extremist ever. and they want me to pity him ?? to find him likeable or fucking redeemable?? FFFFHDJNE like i have absolutely no history with that character i have no reason to dislike him other than the fact that he is so deeply unlikable. i know “likeable” is a personal opinion but mostly im concerned for the people that like him. i genuinely cannot comprehend what people saw in him in that show to make them like him. as a person, not as a character. he’s a really cool villain and everything i’m just confused that people are treating him like a victim or a straw man. he used lethal force on civilians. he wanted to use sam and bucky to legitimize his claim to the throne. he sees that shield as a symbol of patriotism to a broken nation, a military, not to people. he feeds into every negative stereotype about captain america that steve refused to bow to. he is the american imperialist that the military wants, that steve would never be because his heart is too full of altruism to have any room for ego. the foundation of captain america is the idea of being a good man. without that, captain america is just another tool for the military industrial complex.

[gyrovagus-bibliophile]

This series was written with no fucking heart or brain

Some people: “Do you ever think about how sad it is that Bucky can't make amends to Tony? So there is one name on his amends list that he can't ever cross off. But maybe he can try to make amends to Tony’s family?”

Me:

[amarriageoftrueminds]

that anon made some good points. i always found it weird how the majority of people in the cap fandom only criticizes steve's actions in endgame but ignore how sam and bucky canonically are cool with their friend turning into some time-traveling villain playing with the lives of god knows how many people. which actually makes both of them bad people too! not as bad as endgame! steve of course but you know what i mean.

maybe it's fans confusing fanon with canon, where steve is often called out and punished by sam & bucky by the endgame critical side of the fandom? idk but none of that happened in canon. quite the opposite. they still call steve their friend by the end of the show.

just to be clear i believe nothing since that godawful movie made sense so this is not me bashing sam and bucky. but i do find it interesting how fandom mostly focuses on the part of steve abandoning his friends and not how endgame's bad writing greatly damaged sam and bucky's characterization too. why are not more people angry about that?

In reference to (x)

Yeah it's really a domino effect. The negative implications of one load-bearing 'good' character demolishes the values of a whole relay of other characters. The proverbial one bad apple that spoils the barrel. (Altho tbh the fact that TFATWS Bucky could be swapped out with Brock Rumlow without it affecting the plot, because of how villainized he is, kinda tells you just how badly they've written him. That guy isn't Bucky. That's just SebStan with a terrible haircut and a poorly-fitted plastic jacket.)

It's such infuriatingly shoddy absence of continuity, that EG makes Steve almost a split-personality too. The way he answers the first question(?) Sam ever asks him in CATWS by criticising how bad things were in the past versus how good they are in the future (and they're all things that aren't undermined by the plot, where bad things are revealed in the future!)

You can't be that guy and the 'doing nothing=bad' guy and go and live in the 1950s to do nothing while your 'best' friend is tortured. You just can't! 🤷‍♀️ That would be beyond the pale even for a full-blown villain!

[agentoffangirling]

Someone please tell me where all these John Walker stans came from??