#anti show Sansa

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

We can learn a lot about D&D from these two quotes. The fact that one is demonized and protrayed as a narcissist (falsely) while the other is adored and praised.

Daenerys, who D&D decided to portray as cruel and descending into insanity from season 5 on, is written as acknowledging her suffering. However, she says that she endured by finding strength in herself. This view of her past shows how she understands that, while without her circumstances she wouldn't be where she is today, she knows it was unnecessary and awful. Her motivation for most of the show is ensuring that what happened to her doesn't happen to anyone else.

Sansa, on the other hand, outright thanks her abusers. It's one thing to acknowledge how one's trauma shaped you, but it's another thing entirely to thank those who harmed you. By thanking Littlefinger, Ramsay, and others, Sansa is basically saying that her past self needed to suffer in order to become useful. It's D&D basically saying that femininity and women in general need to suffer in order to become "strong".

By choosing to contrast how Dany and Sansa view their pasts and deciding to make Sansa the one the audience is meant to root for, D&D are condemning Dany's idea. They are saying that women shouldn't credit themselves for enduring trauma, rather they should be thankful to their abusers.

This is just one example for how Dany is punished for being active in her life and actively rebelling against her "place" as a woman. Sansa is passive and only acts out when helped by men until the very end of the show, when she has "earned" her active role. Even in her final ending, she asks a man, her brother, to be given the North. Dany takes the lead in her life as soon as she is able, and, even when she's Drogo's bridal slave, she learns how to gain some semblance of power over her life.

Dany is punished by the GoT narrative for being a proactive woman and choosing to condemn rather than thank her abusers. Sansa is rewarded for her passivity and thankfulness to her abusers. This an just one example of the underlying sexism in the show.

[fromtheseventhhell]

It's crazy that people still uphold show!Sansa as a well-written character and pretend that liking her is the pinnacle of feminism when it would be infinitely more impactful to acknowledge her terrible and misogynistic writing. This is the same character who, while written by two men, was thankful for the abuse she suffered because it allowed her to grow. The same character who we had to be told was smart because the writers were too lazy to develop or show her intelligence. The same character who had to rely heavily on the men surrounding her and ended up accomplishing nothing on her own merit ( and no, thinking that she deserved to be Queen doesn't mean that she earned it). She is not well-written, she is not complex, and she is not a feminist character. Which is fine! If you enjoy her then good on you, but please stop pretending that she's something she isn't just because you feel the need to justify liking her character

[daenerystargaryen06]

Can antis like, keep away from Daenerys please?

I'm so tired of seeing people writing out crap that Daenerys will be the villain, Jon is better, she is mad, calling her Danielle, yada yada. Just say you don't like her (because she is ultimately better than your fave) and go.

I'm also tired of seeing people giving the Starks (especially Sansa) her traits. I've seen edits of people making Sansa a Targ, people talking about how she'll get Daenerys' dragons, that Jon will kill Dany for her, etc.

Just keep Daenerys' name out of your mouth if you hate her and can't stand that she is strong, independent, and has an amazing character arc. A majority of Daenerys fans don't like other asoiaf characters, but you hardly see any of them going on a tangent about how much they hate that character. Usually it's us Dany fans defending anti hate against Dany and also defending antis hate on Dany to prop up their own fave (mainly Sansa).

I heavily have a high disdain for show!Sansa (she's alright in the books, not my fave but she's much better compared to the garbage that is her show character). But I don't go out of my way to hate on her, diss her character, write pointless metas about her going "mad", "evil", or "dark". Nor do I see any other Dany fan doing so. We don't hate on Sansa to prop up Dany. We don't give Dany character traits of other characters/Sansa. We don't speculate about how she'll die or get killed or manipulated by another man. It's disgusting.

It's also disgusting seeing anti hate towards Arya. Arya is my second favorite female character in asoiaf. She isn't ugly, she isn't crazy or some violent murderer, she isn't going to be permanently warged into Nymeria and become Sansa's; nor is she going to become Sansa's assigned assassin to kill all her enemies while Sansa and Jon live in lala land. It's not going to happen.

It is so disgusting how a vast majority of Arya and Dany fans don't do half the things their antis/Sansa stans do, yet they go out of their way to bash these wonderful characters to prop up their own fave or to get them out of the way for Sansa or Jon (mainly Jon fans who bash Daenerys to prop Jon up and cheer Jon for killing her).

We can talk about our faves without bashing another character, making metas about them that don't even follow the text, and just being outright nasty.

Do better. Just keep away from Daenerys and Arya.

[whitedragonwolf4961]

You know I remembered something from Battle of the Bastards. Show Sansa was smirking as the Knights of the Vale destroyed Ramsay’s army. Smirking that is until she saw Jon alive. Then her smirk turned into a frown. Why? Shouldn’t she be happy that she arrived just in time to save her brother? Except… she didn’t tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale even though she kept insisting they need more men. And now she’s frowning seeing Jon alive. Why? What if it’s because she was hoping that he would die in the Battle, leaving her to get all the glory for herself? She already gave up on Rickon and didn’t seem bothered that he died. But she sure looked unhappy seeing Jon alive. Why? Well I now think it’s perhaps because she was hoping he would die too and that would leave her the only one around to get all the credit and glory for herself. If this is true… then she only saw Jon as a tool and was hoping he could be discarded. Imagine if I tell a Jonsa this. That Sansa only saw Jon as a tool and she was upset to see that he survived the battle and thus she wouldn’t get all the credit for winning.

[naetaesarya]

Personally, I plan to never get over how D&D tried to push Sansa Stark as the brains behind the Starks' martial strategy and leadership -- you know, with all of her "experience" vs Jon's literal years in a defence organization.

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

I still get irritated when I remember that ridiculous season 8 subplot of Sansa hating Dany.

Dany who postponed her war in order to come to the North and help save them from the Others. Dany who fought tooth and nails during the Winterfell battle.

That Dany being hated by little miss arrogance Sansa. The person who hided in Winterfell's crypts during the battle and never helped anyone but herself and yet had the audacity to lecture Dany how she should rule. As if she knew shit about it.

And D&D wanted to convince us that this xenophobic Karen was somehow more deserving to become ruler than Dany and Jon who dedicated their lives to serve their people. Yikes.

[daenerystemper]

every day stansas set up their fave :sob:

[mutter-of-dragons]

She can't stand the fact that Jon bend the knee and pledged to Daenerys, therefore losing their supposed independance of the North to a "foreigner". The thing is that D&D were too stupid to live, thought it was a good idea to have Sansa to be this savvy character who simply KNOWS from their ass that Daenerys is untrustworthy and that she would be ultimately proved right when Dany burns King's Landing, so D&D can tell you through her "see?? See? She was right the whole time!" Fuck their bad writing. Look at how dumb they made Show Sansa look (not to mention a greedy backstabbing bastard towards her own brother/cousin, since she was willing to sell his secret to anyone who wanted to hear, if that would dispose of Daenerys too)

You know what, I'm still upset about something.

Why does Sansa have that attitude towards Daenerys when she asks her "what do dragons EAT anyways?"

I mean, what the hell is her problem? What does she expect Daenerys to say, grass? air?

Last time I checked, it was them who went to Daenerys for help because they needed her dragons. So, what's with this bitter superiority attitude of Sansa? Seriously, I find her incredibly unpleasant.

Do you want her dragons or not?

It's so stupid..

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

TG stans and stansas rejoice in and ridicule women who get brutalized by their intimate partners, suffer traumatic miscarriages, lose almost all their children, and are murdered by a family member then turn around and cry about Helaena and Sansa's treatments in the fandom.

TG stans call Rhaenyra a fat whore, call her lazy for not riding a dragon into battle after a traumatic miscarriage (btw it takes 1-2 months to recover from a miscarriage), mock Visenya's death, and view the rest of Rhaenyra's children as subhuman. But when TB points out how Helaena and Aegon were both overweight in the book, talk about how Helaena went insane after B&C, and how she doesn't do much plot wise in either the book or show, they start bitching.

They complain about how people shouldn't target Helaena's weight, we should be sympathetic to her after her son is murdered, and she's really a victim so we should pity her not critique how little she does. Yeah, I agree, Helaena deserves sympathy for everything that happened to her, but so does Rhaenyra. But that doesn't matter to greenies, they just hate Rhaenyra so much that they'll act just as if not more awful than the misogynistic lords of Westeros.

Stansas will blame thirteen year old Dany for the crimes of her father, blame a bridal slave for the acts of her husband who bought her, call her a psychopath for not "properly" mourning her abusive brother who threatened to carve out her unborn baby, mock Rhaego's death, say she's a selfish person for freeing slaves, say she's a tyrant/horrible ruler for not perfectly dismantling a system built on millenia of slavery, mock her death, and theorize she'll turn into an mad tyrant based on nothing.

But if anyone criticized Sansa's portrayal on GoT, say she was being willfully ignorant in AGOT, talk about how she's persisting in her fantasies, critique how she acted in seasons 7/8, or theorize literally any ending for her character other than being qitn, they're sexist and hate all "feminine" women. They come up with the most horrible theories and write such hateful metas about Dany but then turn around and act like they and Sansa are the ones being victimized.

The shear hypocrisy of TG and Sansa stans is astounding, it's no wonder those parts of the fandom overlap so much. As long as they have their victims that they can project onto (Alicent/Helaena and Sansa), they're happy. But if anyone dares to criticize the characters or point out actual facts from the story, they turn around and bitch about how much we "hate their poor babies". It's just so frustrating seeing how much they hate and hate Rhaenyra and Daenerys yet reject anything that doesn't align with their ideas.

[fromtheseventhhell]

Queen Sansa when Northmen start coming to her worried about their lack of resources

[daenerystargaryen06]

Jon Snow meeting Daenerys

Based on my rewatch of GoT with my friend, I found that I really don't like the meeting D&D created between Jon Snow and Daenerys. What could have been a monumental and great scene between two amazing characters meeting for the first time after going through all they did- it just pisses me off and feels bitter over the way D&D handled it.

My biggest gripe is the way they handled Jon going to Daenerys to ask for her help against the WW within the show. Not even ask, more like demand, without giving Daenerys anything in return.

Jon, when arriving within Dragonstone, knew that Daenerys had an ongoing war occurring against Cersei. Daenerys was declaring herself Queen of the 7k, she was vying for the throne, and was obviously going to war against Cersei for said throne. War is never easy. Dealing with Cersei (mainly within the show) wasn't going to be a cake-walk (mainly because Tyrion was written as the sympathetic man who needed to 'keep Daenerys' temper in check and give her crap for plans'). Jon knows that wars take up time, require heavy focus and planning, need men and resources, etc. yet he decides to ask Daenerys to drop her war against Cersei and help him fight against magical walking dead creatures that exist on the other side of the Wall without giving Daenerys anything in return.

This is not how any sort of politicking works. Jon can't just waltz in and expect Daenerys to drop her war against Cersei (someone Jon knows is a crazed lunatic who wants his family dead and anyone else that she considers her enemy and the North under her rule) just because he states that these magical walking dead men exist without bringing proof nor giving Daenerys something in return for what he wants.

Jon also knows that the people of Westeros aren't going to believe in the WW just because he says they exist. This was shown even in the first episode of season 1 when Ned executes a deserter from the Night's Watch who said the WW returned and nobody believed him! Tyrion and many other characters referred to the WW as nothing but 'grumpkins' and 'snarks'. Hell, even Jon himself didn't believe the WW's existence until he got attacked by one himself. This is lazy writing on D&D's part. Having a character miraculously think his word alone would convince others (especially a Queen who he needs the help of) that the WW exist without any form of proof or giving something in return for their help, and somehow 'forgetting' all the experience he went through of people discounting the WW existing from the very first season despite them having returned.

This just made Jon appear incompetent, forgetful, and demanding.

I also dislike this scene for the implication it gives- 'poor Jon Snow needs to convince the arrogant Dragon Queen that the WW exist and are a threat to humanity'. Let's be real here. Nobody else knows the WW exist, especially not Daenerys who lived a majority of her life within Essos (excluding book!Dany that is- due to her dream of riding into battle against the Others upon the Trident). Daenerys has a perfectly viable reason not to trust what Jon is saying, nor to suddenly drop her war against Cersei just because he demands her help, especially when he doesn't give anything in return for her! This man deadass looked Daenerys in the eye and basically said: "Yeah, I need you to drop your war with Cersei, come North and give all your power into helping me fight against dead men that nobody else believes in. Oh, and I don't have anything to give you in return, and I won't bend the knee because idk you. K, thanks."

This was obviously very poor negotiation which would definitely not happen within the books. D&D made Dany more hardened, and the way they framed the scene with her and Jon made it seem like they wanted to further play into the slow descent of attempting to pit the audience against her. I have seen people say that Daenerys was too 'arrogant' and 'egotistical' in this scene with Jon due to the way D&D framed the interaction and characters within this. Not to mention the fact that afterwards they had Tyrion be the one to start negotiations with Jon for his alliance AFTER his dumb plans costed Dany her allies in the first place. When we all know book!Dany to be politically savvy, intelligent, and a negotiator/compromiser. It just painted Daenerys in a bad light overall. Even for show!Dany, how do people seriously expect her to be willing to immediately agree to Jon, drop her entire campaign against Cersei, go North, and give her power for some random man that comes to her and says 'magical walking dead men exist and I need your help to fight them' without having a compromise/input from Jon for her aid? The ONLY thing Daenerys wanted from Jon was for him to bend the knee and acknowledge her as Queen, and she would have helped him.

And let's be honest here- I get that the North fought for their freedom and such but that was only due to Cersei and the Lannister's after Ned's execution. There was the quote from the show- "it was the dragons we bowed to." Now dragons are back. Jon admitted that even just after meeting Daenerys she was better than Cersei. He should have been willing to bend the knee to Daenerys, as she had agreed to fight for the North and help Jon if he did so, giving him the aid of her armies and dragons. The showrunners did this stupid parallel between Jon and Mance Rayder. Mance refused to bend the knee to Stannis even if it'd help his people, with Jon asking him- "isn't their survival more important than your pride?". They then did the same with Jon refusing to bend the knee even if it'd help his people, and Daenerys asking him the same thing. This parallel is unneeded, and only showed Jon as being incompetent, as he had that experience with Mance and should've known that pride doesn't get you anywhere when you're a ruler over others lives and need help.

Also- I doubt the North would last long being independent from the other Kingdoms. Limited resources with a coming winter on top of it all after a war against the Bolton's? No way Jon or Sansa could think that would ever work in the North's favor for it to be independent in the long run. Especially with the war against the dead that was yet to come.

I swear it was like the writers had Jon drink stupidity juice for this entire thing and thought 'wow. This is really something. Our best writing yet.' over that horrendous scene. My sanity cannot take it.

[naetaesarya]

I love following you so much bc even tho i'm out of the fandom i can keep tabs on sansa stan nonsense lmao it's so entertaining

It's an exercise in self-control 😭 but no, really, this makes me so happy because it's entertainment (and catharsis!) for me too! Some of my friends offline have the sansa and jonsa stan tag link so when we get together, salsa stark is added to discussions over alcohol and chips.

[artcinemas]

sansa stark might not be part of the key five but she is seven's chosen sacrificial lamb her transition from little bird to alayane stone is literally girl defining seven's biblically accurate transition from maiden to crone. have y'all ever thought of that?

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Sansa Following Cersei Will Not Make Her Queen

I'm sure a lot of people have seen how stansas like posting about how Sansa will become queen because she learned from Cersei. Example below. I'm going to talk about why that doesn't make sense in both the show and the book.

Example:

First off, the obvious: Cersei is not a good ruler. In the show, she is a tyrant (except in season 8 where everyone is just fine with her for some reason). She blows up Baelor's Sept to get rid her political rival, she doesn't care about the smallfolk or even lesser nobles, and she gets rid of anyone who criticizes her. How exactly is she a good role model?

You could say: "Oh she's doing the opposite!" Is she? In the show, she almost gets Jon killed in the Battle of the Bastards (and looks very disappointed when she sees he's alive) and helps cause Rickon's death by hiding the truth about the Vale Knights. Jon and Rickon are her political rivals and she is directly involved with what happens to them by deliberately hiding information, which she had no good reason to hide btw. Her undermining of Jon continues is season 7, where, when Jon is gone trying to get allies to save the fucking world, she encourages the Northern lords to literally speak treason by saying they should've chosen her over Jon. She also for some reason doesn't take into account the fact that Jon is planning on bringing back a giant army when she's making food storage plans. Why not? Is she hoping Jon will fail? Either way this follows show!Cersei's shortsightedness.

We have further proof of her being like Cersei when Daenerys arrives at WF. D&D have literally confirmed part of the reason Sansa didn't like Dany was because she's pretty. Putting aside how sexist that is, that kind of pettiness is not something you want in a ruler. We see how it negatively affected Cersei's reign as she alienated and eventually killed her allies because of Margaery's beauty and conflicting goals. If Daenerys hadn't gone randomly insane, would Sansa have pulled a Cersei and tried to get Dany killed? Well we'll never know, but considering how quickly she betrayed Jon when it meant undermining Dany, I wouldn't put much past her.

In the same vein as the Dany jealousy, is the whole "Not one of us" mentality. Throughout the show Cersei constantly utilizes this view as support for why she doesn't trust anyone. This greatly sabotages her reign and makes her completely isolated thus furthering her mental spiral (both in the books and the show). Again, not a great thing to emulate, but show!Sansa fully embraces this rhetoric when she encounters Dany and her people (which is super xenophobic btw). If it weren't for Dany being in the North, Sansa and everyone else would be wights and the Night King would be winning. And yet, Sansa is outright hostile to Dany (where is Sansa's courtesy which is her armor?) running the risk that Dany will leave. And if what she believed about her being insane like Aerys was true, shouldn't she be worried about being fed to dragons (even though Dany wouldn't)? This is so very reminiscent of Cersei and Margaery and the ending is very much the same.

In the books, yes, Sansa has learned some valuable things from Cersei. However, she doesn't want to be like Cersei, and that's something I admire about her. Book!Sansa is not on path to be queen, and that's ok, in fact, with her role models being Cersei and fucking Littlefinger, that's a good thing.

[montyluvsjasper]

Jonsa fans write 1000+ post of all the foreshadowing of Jonsa.

Jon and Sansa are structured in the story as the romantic leads respectively. Even Sansa antis have admitted the extreme parallels between Jon and “Alayne”. Jon Snow literally has dreams about burning people and thinks it's the most vile thing possible. Sansa wished/prayed for a strong knight to kill Janos Slynt, and Jon’s the one to do it. Jon dies trying to save who he thinks is Arya Stark.

No I don't care about your wolf howl, your blue rose or your Targaryen restoration.

[amaltheas-garden]

hotd writers thought Rhaena's Vale plot was too boring for tv so they stole a black character's plotline to make a white character more interesting, and they thought we wouldn't notice because they made the Velaryons black in the show (and yes, Rhaena is still written as a white character because she is Valyrian, and the racially based discrimination and violence book Nettles faces has been erased) 🤡