#anti robincest

[princemonday]

nowadays i see a sliver of batcest on a blog i block it immediately 😌 protecting my peace if you will

[jenn0wow]

Y’all btw I am anti robincest like shipping Tim, Dick, Jay, AND ESPECIALLY DAMIEN with each other is just weird to me (also with Bruce is weird just to add that on)

[soboroki]

Tea with Dcdweeb: Batcest Edition

Disclaimer: What I say in this post is my opinion. You don’t have to listen to what I have to say. Comment your thoughts and opinions, but any unnecessary hate will not be tolerated. Death threats will also not be tolerated.

Today I’m talking about the most controversial topic ever in the DC fandom, and that is the Batcest or robinphile community. If you’ve been fortunate enough not to know what it is........ I’m sorry but I’m going to ruin it for you. Batcest is the romantic or sexual pairing of the characters Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, and Damian Wayne. I didn’t include the girls because it’s mostly the boys that get paired together, but Cassandra Cain is also adopted by Bruce.

I personally don’t ship any of these characters together because I see them as a family, and it doesn’t matter that all of them with exception of Damian are adopted. I still see them as family therefore I call it incest. To me it’s weird that some people like to see them in romantic or sexual relationships, especially Damian, who is a thirteen-year-old in canon. That’s what really rubs me the wrong way about this fandom is that people ship a minor with adults, and I don’t care if it's fiction. I still think it’s inappropriate and problematic.

Now here are some common reasons/excuses that pro-batcest people used to defend their ships. 

~ They’re just fictional characters or it’s just fiction. 

Well Jan, just because it’s fiction doesn’t make it any less problematic. Incest is very real, so why not treat fiction the same way?

~ They’re not related by blood.

We’re not about to invalidate adopted families just so you can ship incest. Adopted families are real families and adopted siblings are real siblings. Also Damian is Bruce’s biological son, so that excuse isn’t effective to begin with.

~ Let people ship what they want to ship.

You can do whatever you want, but that doesn’t stop anyone from having opinions about it. You can’t expect anyone not say anything when it’s something as controversial as Batcest. I do draw the line at death threats and unnecessary hate because that’s never okay.

~ You’re homophobic

This one has to be the most stupid and infuriating excuse ever. First of all, as a member in the lgbt+ community I wouldn’t want this to be represented in the community especially when there are other healthy same sex ships that these characters are paired in. So, no, I don’t think it’s homophobic that, regardless if you’re a member of the community or an ally, we don’t want incest or pedophilia represented in the community.

I’ve said what I wanted to say about this topic. I’m not here to change anyone’s minds because I know I won’t and they’re going to continue shipping what they want. Also, just because I don’t agree what these people ship doesn’t mean I hate them. I don’t know them to do so. That being said, I’ll say this again, death threats and unnecessary hate will not be tolerated. Please share your opinions and respective criticism.

[brudami]

damian wayne deserves to be happy with his family without a bunch of freaks thinking his dad should fuck him

or any of his brothers for that matter. people can have platonic relationships without a sexual or romantic one following, especially in a family. if you think its okay because damian and his brothers aren't 'technically' related ur both disrespecting adopted families and being an incest loving freak. if u have to say theyre not 'technically' brothers, i got some bad news. they are brothers.

[demiboy-mint-choco]

1. The incest shippers are big mad boys!

2. If you wanna ship Dick with a boy, ROY IS RIGHT THERE! If you wanna ship Jason with a boy, Kyle is right there! If you wanna ship Tim with a boy, Connor is RIGHT THERE! And if you wanna ship Damian with a boy, Jon is right there!

i thought of this on my way home…….. i made this in like 20 minutes

[whetstonefires]

The sad Jason art you reblogged, the original artist is a rampant JayTim shipper fyi 🤢

Okay, listen. I cannot figure out why you would send this. What purpose is this supposed to serve? Who are you helping? What is the desired result?

Like, sure I don’t enjoy that ship and I really wish it were less prominent, because it makes so many potentially interesting fics unreadable for me, but it’s far and away the most innocuous of the intra-family ships.

(Followed by either of them with Cass ig since Steph doesn’t strictly count. Or Duke, but like DC deeply failed to integrate him into the family network. Actually is anyone writing Duke/Tim, there’s space to do some fun work there with the idealization-of-and-identification-with-Robin-as-wearable-identity.)

It’s not like anyone is being depicted Committing Sex Crime here, or like there’s an existing familial dynamic to be getting corrupted. Or even a firmly ingrained power dynamic. They’re about three years apart in age and didn’t even meet until their late teens? I don’t like the adopted sibling incest angle even in that context, but I can’t pretend that part is actually inherently hurting either of them, except by complicating things with their support systems and intensifying the baggage.

The reason I find the ship so intolerable is they have so much baggage between them, adopted family very much included, even before you start on shit they’ve actually done to each other, that to jump straight into the premise you have to go either wildly AU or wildly ooc (very frequently both) to sell them having a remotely sane or healthy romance, let alone at all a normal one.

The AU version tends to make them hopelessly boring by flattening every existing element of complexity to avoid Problems and the ooc option both boring and vaguely revolting to my personal sensibilities, because I have issues about people’s characters being warped around the demands of romantic relationships, and especially about the result being treated as positive. Those things on top of the sibling thing is a definite hard no.

...I feel like the only way to get me actually interested in a JayTim premise would actually be to lean in to all that shared baggage and dysfunction, and depict the relationship as a downhill tumble of mutual projection and trying to process their own Robin-related-identity-smear issues and overlapping parent issues using one another, ‘self-recognition through the other (derogatory)’ angry makeouts, and all that unhealthy stuff, made even more fucked up by their canonical existing tangled respect for and resentment of one another.

All that, if well executed, could be really intriguing! And could even potentially sell me on the ‘ship as ultimately positive in the end, because the narrative would at that point have put in the work to make the relationship a vehicle for character development.

As far as I know, though, that is not what the shipping community for these two is looking for at all, ever. And I'm not going to subject myself to a million versions because one of them might be tolerable.

So, I know this is something I dislike! On every level! I avoid it! I have, in fact, ended acquaintanceships with people because they could not consistently remember to respect clearly delineated boundaries about it, because they’d internalized the ship as a baseline norm of batfam fandom. Don’t like that.

But like. What possible purpose could it serve to warn me that someone whose reposted-and-reunited art I reblogged ships this thing? What is that adding to the world? Is this supposed to be helpful to me in some way?

I’m not entering into a longterm or intimate relationship with this person whose name I don’t recall. I’m not interacting with them. I didn’t even reblog a post original to them or directly from their blog. The JayTim ship is not relevant to the art in question, which was a depiction of Jason speaking to Bruce (not pictured).

Even if the artist were a JayBruce shipper and there was some relevance, I’m not clear on what you think you would be accomplishing by informing me there might be secret bad subtext to an art I reblogged!

Like. State your goals here, don’t just end your statement with a 'mouthful of vomit' emoji, which incidentally is somewhat more triggering for some issues I’ve been working on than the JayTim ship itself, because guess what people are complicated.

Is your goal to get me to comb through my blog to remove the post? To go memorize the url so I know to avoid this person in the future? To blacklist them???

What even is rampant in this context anyway. Just. Lacking in restraint? The boundary-disrespecting issue I mentioned before? Just...doing it a lot? Do you mean it in the heraldic sense of ‘standing up on their hindquarters for dramatic effect?’

Be specific. Explain why you are inflicting this subject on me in the correct presumption it’s a subject I like to avoid. Why does that make sense?

I’m not interested in being roped into whatever weird playground politics drama this is, okay? Jeez louise.

[asexualarkhamknight]

Finding a well written batfamily Gen fic with no romantic ships

[heyitsani]

Never Be the Same

Omega!Dick Week Day 1: Breeding

Word Count: 1975

Rating: Teen and Up

Warnings: Mention of miscarriage (not jay/dick) and Robincest (obviously)

Pairing: Dick Grayson/Jason Todd

Summary: Dick has been thinking about kids for the past couple of months and he's finally gathered the courage to approach Jason about it.

Notes: Here is my submission for the first day of Omega!Dick Week.  It was hard to pick which prompt for this day I wanted to go with, but this story came to me more easily than any of the other ideas so here we go.  

You can also read this on AO3 here

The breath he took came in long and left stuttered.  He had been planning for this conversation for weeks.  Weeks.  And yet he found himself still worried that he would be turned away.  Not completely, because his Alpha would never do that to him. But he wasn’t sure how receptive Jason would be to the current desire Dick had been fighting against for a few months now.  

It had been two years since he and Jason had bonded, five since the Alpha had come back from the dead with the desire of vengeance in his heart only to be stopped in his tracks by the older Omega.  It hadn’t been his plan to make Jason choose between him and the vengeance, he hadn’t even known it was Jason when he had first approached Red Hood as Nightwing.

But when the younger man had caught wind of his scent, the entire plan crumbled and the years Jason had spent hoping he could someday become the Alpha that Dick’s Omega wanted to bond with came flooding back.

And Dick had been knocked on his ass (literally and figuratively) once he figured out that the reason the hooded anti-hero smelled so much like home was because it was Jason.  

His Jason.

The kid who came back into his life with guns blazing as a man.  A man that ticked all the boxes Dick had been unable to tick off with any of the Alphas he had dated in the past.  Except for the “provide for me” box.  

But it hadn’t taken Jason long to prove that the somewhat unseemly underground he had built would do just that.  And much to Bruce’s dismay, Dick bared his neck to the young Alpha and accepted him as mate.

But now, two years after that night, Dick was restless and craving something only Jason could give him.

He wanted pups.

He wanted to fill the penthouse Bruce had given them as a bond present with the sound of childish laughter and tiny feet running up and down the halls.  And he had come down to Jason’s office in the building that he owned as Red Hood in hopes of convincing his mate that it was something they could start to try for when his next heat hit in a few weeks.

“Mr. Grayson!”  The surprised shout of the receptionist wasn’t too surprising for Dick.  Usually, he called ahead to warn her he was coming so she could warn Jason.  Today he hadn’t wanted Jason to be prepared.  “I’m so sorry, I didn’t know you were coming by today!  He’s in a meeting.”

“That’s all right, Shelia,” he told the young omega.  He paused in front of her desk and smiled down at her.  Dick had always liked her, had in fact been the one who told Jason to bring her into the fold.  She had been abandoned by her alpha when she had miscarried their pup and Dick had come across her as Nightwing and had been invested in her ever since.  They had kept her in the dark and she simply thought she was working for Jason Todd, Bruce Wayne’s returned-from-the-dead son. “Is he having it in his office?” She shook her head and he sighed in relief.  “I’ll wait for him there.  Will you just have someone tell him that I’m here?  But it’s not a rush.”

“Of course, Mr. Grayson. Should I have anything sent to you?”

“My usual tea would be perfect.  Thank you.” The woman nodded and picked up the phone, dialing one of Jason’s assistants undoubtedly.  But he didn’t bother waiting to find out for sure. Instead, he slipped through to the elevator that would take him to the top floor where Jason kept his professional office.  He knew that if Jason was in a meeting but not in his office, then he was probably in the basement and it was not something Dick wanted knowing the details of.

The ride up was short and the instant he stepped out of the elevator onto the plush carpet of the lobby of Jason’s office, he was greeted with another familiar face.  A beta, Travis, who worked as one of the office assistants to Jason.  Someone who didn’t get involved in the seedy parts of the business, but who knew about them all the same, unlike Sheila.

“Mr. Grayson-Todd.” He also knew of his and Jason’s very secret marriage.  Something not even Bruce had been privy to until very recently.

“Travis,” Dick greeted, taking the cup of tea that was presented to him.  “I’m just going to wait in his office.  He had no idea I was coming by and it is not an emergency. But it will most likely be lengthy so make sure he doesn’t pause the meeting he’s in.  Just have him finish and then come see me.”

“Understood.  I’ll call down to Jake now.”  Dick patted the young man’s shoulder before slipping into Jason’s office and shutting the door behind him.  He glanced around, not at all surprised to find it neat and organized, that was just Jason.  

He was incredibly pleased to see the pillows Dick had left there a few weeks ago, sitting on the bay window seat that Dick had told him he should have installed.  He had said it under the guise of using it to share a meal together, but Dick really just enjoyed the view.  

So that was where he made himself comfortable.  Kicking off the black Kenneth Cole dress shoes he had paired with his black slacks and deep blue button down, he sat with his feet tucked underneath him. Leaning into the pile of pillows, he held the warm mug of tea in both his hands and looked out at the city below. Losing himself in the cars passing and the people walking by.

“Mate.”  The word broke through his musings, pulling sapphire eyes to turquoise.  The smile that pulled across Dick’s lips was easy and lazy, the sun soaking through the window providing comfort and relaxing the nerves that he had been dealing with all morning.  Putting the nearly empty mug onto the window ledge, he held out his hand for Jason to take as he got closer.  

But Jason didn’t stop there. No.  Instead, he sat across from Dick and pulled his Omega into his lap, burying his face into the side of his neck where his scent glands were.  Dick slipped a hand into Jason’s hair and the other around his broad shoulders in response.

“You smell…worried?”

“Nervous.”

Lifting his head, Jason looked up at Dick and frowned.  “What do you have to be nervous about?”  Looking down at Jason, Dick took in his features as he smiled down at him, not bothering to answer right away.  Now that he was there in Jason’s arms, he wasn’t nervous at all.  Jason was just smelling the lingering scent from earlier at this point.  “What? Dickie, what is going on?”

“I want you to pup me.” Dick chuckled when Jason choked on nothing.  Placing both his hands on Jason’s cheeks, he pressed his mouth to his Alpha’s.  

“Wait, Dick.  You’re not in heat.”

“Hmm,” Dick hummed, kissing the corner of Jason’s mouth before moving down his jaw to his neck. He scraped his teeth against the scent glands there, forcing a moan from his mate.

“Not that I’m complaining about this current course of actions, but can I have your attention for a moment?”  Sighing softly, Dick pulled back and let his hands slips down and around Jason’s neck. His fingers laced together behind his neck and Dick smiled at Jason.  “What brought this on?  You’re not scheduled to heat for a few weeks.”

“True,” Dick confirmed. “But I wanted to discuss it in advance. Before I need to have Leslie put in the script for suppressants.  And I wanted time to convince you if you ended up being opposed to the idea.”

“And did you think that was likely?”  Shrugging a shoulder, Dick didn’t say anything.  “When have I ever given you anything less than what you have asked for?”

“A fancy espresso machine is different than a pup,” Dick pointed out.

“But both just as complicated to maintain.”  With a roll of his eyes, Dick dropped his head to Jason’s shoulder.  “What?  Guess I should work on my dad jokes.”

“Is that what that….wait, are you saying yes?”  Jason laughed and brushed Dick’s bangs off his forehead when he lifted his head from Jason’s shoulder.

“I’ve been ready since the day I gave you this.”  Dick felt Jason’s thumb brushing the mating bite just below his shirt collar.  “I’ve just been waiting for you to be ready.” Dick considered him for a moment, taking in his words with a frown.  “What?”

“You never said.”

“No, but I knew you weren’t there yet.  I don’t view life in the same way everyone else in our family does.  Death and coming back from it, it changed the important things,” he elaborated.  “When Talia was training me, all I wanted was vengeance.  I couldn’t think of anything beyond that.  Not just because of the Pit Madness, but because I didn’t remember what life was like before.  Talia managed to distort all of that.”

Dick knew that.  Jason had confessed how Damian’s mother had managed to bring out the worst side of Jason.  The side that he still struggled to keep under some kind of control to this very day.  The side that always left Bruce wondering if it was a good idea to welcome his once-dead son back into the family.  Not because he didn’t love him, but because he no longer followed the strict rules that Bruce himself had to follow for his own sanity.  But Jason had proven he could be what Batman could not be.  That he could get his hands dirty when the others couldn’t.

“But that day I came across you again, I snapped out of it.  None of it mattered.  All that mattered was you and what I had to do to prove that I could be what you wanted. But snapping out of that haze also meant I realized just how quickly life is snatched from us in this line of work.” Leaning into the hand that pressed to one of his cheeks, Dick kept his eyes on Jason’s as he confessed.  “I would have pupped you the night we bonded because I knew that there could be a chance that the next day I would be gone and I wanted you to have a part of me for as long as possible.”

“Jay…”  Dick didn’t know what to say.  He didn’t understand that side of death.  He had only ever been on the surviving side of it.  He had buried too many of his family members only to have them come back to life.  The idea of having to bury Jason again made him dizzy with fear.

“Shh, Mate,” Jason comforted, leaning up to press his lips to Dick’s for a moment.  Just a press of lips to another, simple and yet heavy with meaning.  And Dick instinctively sank into that comfort.  He let his omega take the lead and relax into his alpha.   This was easy, giving this control over to Jason. He had never given Dick cause to regret accepting his courting, unlike alphas in his past.  Giving in had been as easy as breathing.

Two puzzle pieces easily falling in together.

“I would give you anything and everything you wanted.  This is no exception.”  The words were spoken a hair’s breadth away from the lips his had just been pressed against.  “Especially since I, too, want this.”

“Good,” Dick pulled back enough to look down into Jason’s eyes again and smiled brightly.  “I’ll tell Leslie to skip the prescription this time around.”

“Good.”

[brudami]

if you have to justify why its not 'technically incest' then its incest full stop