#anti oshamir

[short-wooloo]

How did oshamir become more annoying than reylo?

[sonic-fairyspell]

Oshamir is basically Reylo all over again if Rey went with Ren's bullshit and joined him.

Its just as bad and also somehow worse!!!

[mydreamsarentrare]

I was like “oh cool, the acolyte is a tragedy and quimir is trying to manipulate osha as she inevitably turns to the dark side from her traumatic childhood” and then I went on tumblr and he is the new Coriolanus help

[bereft-of-frogs]

I’m super sorry, I’m going to start tagging this with a negativity tag so if anyone following me is really into it they can block it out but I feel like I got whiplash from the sudden romance subplot. Episode 6 was one thing, episode 8 had a lot more that I’m struggling with how to make sense of. It’s just such a sudden turn. Like trying to think back 2 weeks is insane to me. Like 2-3 weeks ago if someone asked ‘hey do you think Osha and either the masked Sith/Mae’s assistant friend should kiss’ it would have been absurd, not something that was apparently floated for the finale. It was not a thought that crossed my mind until episode 6 of 8. Whiplash. Truly. I feel like we just speed-ran the way these ships take over, I feel a little insane.

I feel like I didn’t have time to properly grieve for Jecki, Yord, and the Jedi redshirts, let alone wrap my head around Sol. I need some time lol

[allgirlsareprincesses]

Choosing the Beast: Modern Folklore Heroines Embrace the Animal Husband

“I choose the bear.” The refrain rang out across the web, with many a woman nodding in agreement or at least understanding, and certain men huffing with indignant outrage. Just a meme, really, but did it speak to a deeper truth? Is it merely age-old mistrust of patriarchy talking, or a true desire for the beastly, the wild, the untame?

I’m no sociologist, of course, but I have noticed an emerging trend in fem-gaze media that seems to reflect this view. In movies like I Am Dragon (2015) and recent shows like My Lady Jane and The Acolyte, the heroine chooses the beast, loving her animal husband in his wild form rather than requiring him to transform back into a mundane man to earn her affection. This is such a departure from the typical folktale pattern that it’s difficult to even find an historic example where this occurs.

Commonly thought to reveal the desire to tame a dangerous mate in a patriarchal society, most animal husband tales (ATU 425a) feature a hero who ultimately transforms permanently into a human. This is viewed not only as freeing him from the maddening effect of his wild form, but also saving his bride from committing the sin of bestiality. In these tales, the animal mate’s transformation is necessary for the salvation of both.

Is the modern heroine then damned by choosing her husband’s beastly form? Or does she actually free them both from the yoke of patriarchal expectations?

Bathing: Discovering the Wild Masculine

The first motif that stands out in these modern screen examples is bathing. In animal spouse tales, there is often a dynamic of the hunter and the hunted, and thus a moment when the hunter comes upon their would-be lover unawares. Perhaps they find the animal spouse sleeping, or they cast a light on them unexpectedly, see them without their animal skin or disguise, and so on. And of course, they often come upon the lover at their bath.

There is an implied eroticism in this discovery, finding one’s quarry not only undressed, but also in the most private of activities. Water of course symbolizes fertility, but bathing is also purifying, symbolically washing away all that might make a mate undesirable. And this, perhaps, is the reason that historically this motif is used almost exclusively for animal brides, not animal husbands.

For the animal husband, he either actively chooses to reveal himself to the bride (perhaps on their wedding night), or she violently strips away his disguise, often armed with “flame and steel” like Psyche and her many avatars. Animal brides on the other hand are nearly always discovered at a body of water, bathing. The hunter will then capture her either by stealing her animal skin or cloak, or by placing his own clothing on her. What does it mean, then, when it is the husband who is discovered bathing in a body of water, held as an erotic object in the feminine gaze?

In The Acolyte, Osha follows Qimir to a pool where he slowly undresses, in full knowledge that she is watching. On the shore, she steals his lightsaber, just like the hunter who steals the animal skin, symbolically claiming him. When he emerges, Qimir dons new clothes, as if acknowledging that he is a different person than before he entered the water, almost purified in a way. Osha is forced to confront that there is more to the murderer in the mask than she realized.

Similarly, in My Lady Jane, our heroine goes looking for Guildford just before sunrise on their ill-fated wedding night, only to discover him bathing in the stables. The scene is gratuitously filmed from Jane’s (very horny) perspective, flipping the script on the countless scenes in screen history shot with the masculine gaze. Immediately after she discovers and confronts him, Guildford transforms against his will into a horse, and Jane realizes that he is an Ethian, a creature she has been taught is demonic and unnatural.

And in I Am Dragon, Mira makes several discoveries in quick succession: first, she deduces that Arman is actually the dragon. In the next moment, she slips from the island’s peak and falls, saved only when Arman transforms at the last moment and breaks her fall with his dragon form. The water begins to wash over his unconscious body, and at first Mira thinks that she will allow him to drown. But the sight of Arman in his human form after he rescued her, worried over by his animal familiar, stirs her to pity and she wraps him in a sail and drags him to safety. In this way, she clothes him, claiming him as her own.

Each of these heroines discovered a new aspect of her husband at the bath, finding him unexpectedly alluring, and ultimately choosing to begrudgingly claim him. Each animal husband tried to wash away his beastly form, to separate himself from the wild masculine. These men feel a sense of disassociation from a part of themselves, but now that their brides have discovered it, there will be no more hiding. Further, the bride now holds the power in the relationship, evidenced by how her husband needs her: Qimir needs Osha to be his apprentice, Guildford needs Jane to help him “break the curse,” and Arman needs Mira to heal him from his wounds.

Playing House: The Half-Husband

The second feature of these stories is a period of domesticity for the couple. For a brief time after the husband’s beastly nature is revealed, the lovers “play house” like children. While sexual tension is present, they typically do not consummate their union during this time, but instead cook, eat, rest, and care for one another. What’s more, they ignore or even attempt to actively destroy the husband’s animal form. They deny that this is part of him and therefore part of their relationship.

In I Am Dragon, Mira heals Arman, and wakes the next morning to find he has left food for her (dragonfruit, appropriately). Together they begin building a home out of shipwreck debris they find scattered around the island. A cheery montage shows them decorating a living space, choosing clothes, playing music, and dancing. But the specter of Arman’s monstrous form lurks on the edge of their idyllic life. Mira has nightmares, and tells Arman how much she fears “the dragon,” notably not referring to them as the same person. And eventually, it emerges that Mira has been planning to escape, rejecting Arman’s dragon form entirely.

After he sheds the helmet and robes of The Stranger, Qimir turns his attention to caring for Osha: he heals her, lets her sleep in his bed, provides clothes, and cooks for her. In turn, after some lightsaber-wielding, Osha becomes more comfortable in his home and accepts the food he offers, eventually even trying on his helmet. Later, they bicker amiably on their way to Brendok, like an old married couple on a road trip. When not facing down Jedi, Qimir leaves his menacing persona behind and transforms into an empathetic, protective, and alluring partner.

Jane Grey, meanwhile, finds herself using her honeymoon sequestered away in a private cottage to try to cure Guildford of his Ethianism. With her knowledge of medicine, she concocts various potions and magical cures, but none of them succeed. Guildford often checks in on her after these disappointments, making sure she’s getting enough sleep and taking care of herself. It’s also clear that they’ve been regularly dining together when Jane suddenly dashes off to rescue her friend. Guildford follows her and the two protect one another, followed by an almost-tryst. Even when they move into the palace, their day-to-day (or rather night-to-night) life is one of comfortable domesticity, although they continue to deny Guildford’s horse form.

In each of these cases (although less so in The Acolyte without Season 2 to continue the story), playing house can only last for so long while the husband’s animal nature is denied. There is a part of him that is suppressed, rejected, and this leads to him being incomplete, a half-husband. Each hero is unable or unwilling to accept and celebrate his whole self with his bride. Eventually, it is that denial that leads to a rift between the couple, which can only be healed not with the transformation of the husband, but with the embrace of his animal form.

Enforcing Patriarchy: The Rival

Each of these relationships exists in direct opposition to the dominant culture in the story: Arman as the Dragon is the literal enemy of Mira’s people, Qimir as Sith is the enemy of Osha’s Jedi masters, and in My Lady Jane, intermarriage between humans and Ethians is punishable by death. By choosing to stay with their animal husbands, even for a brief time, our heroines are openly defying the patriarchal norms of their societies. But no oppressive society is about to take that transgression lying down. In each story, a rival emerges to enforce the patriarchal order, kill the beastly husband, and retrieve the bride.

In I Am Dragon, Mira’s betrothed and descendent of the dragon-slayer, Igor, journeys to rescue her from the dragon. Over the course of the story, it becomes clear that Igor cares nothing for Mira herself, and merely feels entitled to her as his bride. Dragon-slaying is his heritage, so he must find her, kill the dragon, and take his place as the hero of his people. Even the marriage ceremony illustrates his ownership of her: he takes hold of a rope tied to her boat and reels her in, thus binding her to the patriarchal order. Contrast that to Arman, who offers her the power of flight, a symbol for freedom.

In Osha’s case, Qimir’s rival for her loyalty is clearly Master Sol, who wants to keep his former pupil dependent on him and the Jedi. Sol takes patronizing fatherliness to an extreme, constantly rescuing Osha rather than letting her stand for herself, teaching her to deny her feelings and instincts, and lying to her to “protect” her. The Jedi refuse to allow that there might be any other way to access the Force than their own, thus invading the home of the Brendok witches and ultimately orphaning the twins. Sol continues to press this dominance to the end, challenging Qimir and insisting to Osha that his own lies were justified.

In My Lady Jane, there are two rivals, both women. Lady Frances attempts throughout the show to dominate her daughters and crush their wills, forcing them into unwanted marriages, applying political pressure, and even counseling Jane to abandon Guildford to save herself. The other rival is Mary Tudor, who is determined not only to emulate her father’s violent, oppressive, and misogynistic reign, but to crush anyone she considers “unnatural” or who poses a threat to her rule. These characters stand as clear examples of how women can enforce patriarchy, too.

In each story, there is a moment when the rival briefly recaptures or “rescues” the bride from her beastly husband, bringing her to a moment of decision: will she stay within the bounds of patriarchy like a good little girl? Or will she make an act of defiance to choose her own path?

Marriage: Choosing the Beast

The bride’s choice will ultimately decide not only her fate, but that of her mate as well. As an independent character, the wild masculine is deeply wounded, separated from himself and thus from his bride. He longs to transform not into a greater, more whole person, but into a lesser, half-person. Alone, without the embrace of his anima, he cannot see the value of his beastly form. Instead of healing, he faces annihilation.

As a part of the bride’s psyche, the beastly husband represents her innermost desires, the truth of her heart, and a spirit freed from the expectations of her society. He is her animus, her missing wild masculine. If she transforms him into a man, then she will tame his wild nature, bringing him to heel under the boot of the patriarchy. Choosing the human form and rejecting the beast means rejecting her own psychological needs. It would be just another form of psychic dismemberment.

Fortunately and unusually, each of these modern brides chooses her beastly husband without demanding he transform. When Osha finally agrees to become Qimir’s apprentice, she takes his hand under the willow tree, clasping the newly-bled lightsaber between them. A few scenes later, this wedding imagery is repeated when they hold hands over the saber again, this time looking into a sunrise/set. Notably, at the moment they “marry” under the willow tree, Qimir is wearing his beastly helmet with rows of menacing, wolfish teeth. He has not come to the light side or shed his Dark Side persona, but Osha has embraced him anyway without fear. And while they might not both be healed (yet), they are more whole together than they were apart.

When her efforts to cure Guildford of his Ethianism repeatedly fail, Jane begins to suspect that his “condition” cannot be cured at all. But listening to her Ethian friends Susanna and Archer finally convinces her that the truth is Guildford doesn’t NEED to be healed - being an Ethian is who he is, and it’s nothing to fear. Unfortunately, Guildford still associates his beastly form with his mother’s death, so he is unable to accept it as Jane encourages, and flees. After a near-death experience, he uses his equine speed to return to the castle just as Jane is deposed and captured. As our heroes battle toward the end, Guildford comes to learn that there are many other proud Ethians, and that his family loves and accepts him in any form.

Still, he’s unable to transform at will, and when Mary captures him and sentences both husband and wife to death, it seems their story may end in tragedy. But as Guildford has been struggling to accept himself, Jane too has been battling with her own conscience. Does she renounce Guildford to save herself? Use her wits to kill the guard and escape? Bend to her mother’s manipulation? Jane confronts each temptation, and ultimately chooses to face death rather than betray Guildford or herself. But when her Ethian friends (the wild instinct) appear to disrupt the execution, our heroine seizes the opportunity to rescue Guildford. Unable to free him from the burning pyre, she confesses her love for him, and they kiss amid the flames.

Fire is often a herald of transformation, burning away illusions to reveal the truth. And when Jane and Guildford exchange their vows in this symbolic marriage ceremony, Guildford’s fears and illusions are finally burned away. Now that his bride has accepted his beastly form, he can accept it too, and so he at last transforms at will into a horse so that they can escape. Their story ends with them married and whole before the sunrise.

Among our modern heroines, Mira is the boldest in her embrace of the beastly husband. Offered yet again as a bride to Igor, she realizes that this is not what she wants, and casts off the tether from her boat. She declares “I love the Dragon!” using the name of her husband’s animal form rather than his human name. Then, she sings the song that will call the dragon to her, and he appears to carry her away again.

But their story is not over yet! Earlier in the story, Arman told Mira of how he loses control when in dragon form, and that dragons are compelled to reproduce by burning maidens to death and retrieving their offspring from the ashes. Returning to the island with her a second time, the dragon drops her on the altar and prepares to spew fire, but Mira lunges up and kisses him. This act of love, even when he is a monster, stuns the beastly husband. Again, Mira declares her love and kneels before him, saying she does not wish to be parted. We might expect the animal husband to transform in this moment, but instead he lays his fearsome head in her lap as a lover. Their story ends with a child and a flight in the sky, silhouetted by the sun just like the other couples.

Each bride, when confronted with the option to return to the patriarchal limits of her childhood, chose instead an act of love and acceptance for her wild masculine. This embrace helped the beastly husband to accept his whole self, and he is healed without having to cut off the wild parts of himself.

What Does It Mean?

Again, this story is so rare in world folklore that it’s difficult to even find examples. On fleeting occasions that the woman chooses an untransformed beast, it is presented as a cautionary tale. These women are framed as a danger to the community for their bestial impulses and abandonment of the social order, much like witches who were said to consort with the devil. It was certainly never presented as a happy ending, insofar as we can tell from written accounts.

So what does the emergence of this tale mean for our culture? I would argue that this is just the latest step in our ongoing reckoning with historic gender roles, as well as renegotiating with other forms of systemic oppression. People of all genders are pressured to reject a part of ourselves, cutting us off from our own truth and desires that run counter to the enforced social order. We must not challenge patriarchy, must not embrace different gender expressions, must not blur established hierarchies of power, must not find joy and power in our identities, and so on.

This enforced denial does tremendous damage to everyone caught in the system, and so through story, we dream our way to escape. We dream of embracing the dark, wild parts of ourselves, of flying free on a spaceship or a dragon or enchanted horseback, and of being totally loved for who we are.

It’s clear patriarchy is still fighting back against this emancipation of the wild feminine and wild masculine, given that both The Acolyte and My Lady Jane were canceled not long after their release. In the case of The Acolyte in particular, there was a sustained campaign from its announcement to harass and silence the creators. Demoralizing as this phenomenon may be, it’s important to remember WHO ultimately owns these stories:

“Fanfiction is a way of the culture repairing the damage done in a system where contemporary myths are owned by corporations instead of owned by the folk.

-Henry Jenkins, NYT 1997

Ah, an oldie-but-goodie. But Dr. Jenkins is right. Corporations may greenlight, film, release, and then cancel these stories, but ultimately they belong to the people. We take from these tales what speaks to us, leave what does not, and then retell them ourselves in fanfiction, in art inspired by the stories, and in lessons we pass on to our friends and families. If the embrace of the wild masculine speaks to you, let the story take root in your own life. Do you know someone who needs to be embraced, just as they are? Do you need to accept the parts of yourself that society tells you to hate? Do you want to be free, healed, and whole?

If so, then let these stories show you how, and tell more like them. Embrace the beast, and find your joy.

Sources:

Beauty and the Beast Tales From Around the World by Heidi Anne Heiner

In Search of the Swan Maiden: A Narrative on Folklore and Gender by Barbara Fass Leavy

And a relevant song for you, as a treat:

Women Who Run With the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman Archetype by Clarissa Pinkola Estés, Ph.D.

[darklinaforever]

It kills me that the nostalgia that makes part of the Star Wars fandom idealize the Jedi and refuse to see them as flawed and corrupt in their system is so powerful. Just look at the critical receptions from some viewers to The Last Jedi, and now The Acolyte. It's amazing that these idiots didn't learn from their mistakes and reproduced the same pattern of criticism on the show. Idealization of past figures due to nostalgia, therefore refusing a more nuanced or even negative treatment which is objectively true (with Luke, therefore the Jedi and again the Jedi in The Acolyte), misogyny (against any female characters present / with It matters even more if the main protagonist is therefore a woman) racist (against any character who is not white, and even worse when it comes this time to the two main protagonists of the story) and anti romance (against Reylo and Oshamir, while Wtf Anakin and Padme, Han & Leia, Hera & Kanan, Jyn & Cassian or even Revan & Bastilla from the Legend extended universe ?) on the program !

[aniseya]

idk who needs to hear this but people are allowed to not ship reylo but ship oshamir. you do not have “ownership” over something people have just found to enjoy while something about the previous ship they did not.

[jynjackets]

they’re not reylo because osha isn’t sidelined from the narrative to support his goals. from her perspective we see how it makes complete sense why someone like her, (a dedicated, loving yet outcasted former jedi) is questioning where she belongs. Qimir may want to use her and obviously feigning kindness to get her to trust him, but he also genuinely wants a pupil that unlocks the power of the dark side. And he sees that power in osha and it’s this obsession with her that’s undeniably tempting especially for someone who hasn’t quite been given back the loyalty and devotion that she openly offers.

its “toxic” because it’s supposed to be. and we love watching these dynamics unfold because they reflect the ugly truths of human nature. we do things to feel love even if it’s in artificial forms. we incessantly give with the illogical hopes that we might receive something back. how the dark side pulls someone such as osha therefore becomes realistic. and what is more appealing than to allow yourself recognition you never had. to let your emotions be unrestrained and even be your greatest strength. what else could you do when someone finally tells you that there’s more out there for you, and can grant you unspeakable power that’s always been just out of reach

[angrydemonfawnbaby]

ya know, going into the acolyte having seen gifs of osha and qimir (and not knowing that mae was a separate person), i really thought it was gonna be my enemies to lovers otp. and they had me for a second in the little apothecary shop when he sussed out she wasn't mae immediately (not like she made it hard).

but the enemies part of it never really kicked in, ya know? like the stakes never felt real? every moment where she was like "I"m gonna kill you" never felt like it had any real weight. and they're cute, they have chemistry (that's likely just amandla and manny), but they aren't enemies to lovers and their tension is just sexual tension and that's fine but it's maybe a little uninteresting for me personally.

now maemir? layers. he lied to her. she maybe knew that the whole time. she betrayed him. he tried to kill her. he could have killed her. why didn't he kill her? they spent ten plus years together before all this shit went down. there's history. it's all gone now because he erased her memory. that's good shit.

and yeah yeah yeah manny and amandla and everyone is propping oshamir up on a pedestal rn and saying maemir is a sibling dynamic but like have you considered fuck that? we make our own fun. the sibling dynamic existed between the fake bumbling persona qirmir was putting on to keep mae from knowing who he really was, mae has never actually met the real qimir. mae knew the sidekick, and knew her master, and then she didn't know either. IT'S GOOD SHIT.

[konemanen]

The obsession these antis have with The Acolyte needs to be studied. I blame Disney and Lucas Film for emboldening these people with the cancellation. Now they believe they can make comparisons to the Acolyte so shows can get hate-piled, overly criticised and get cancelled. They have even given it a new name "the acolyte treatment". I don't understand people who keep talking or lurking around things they claim they hate.

[infinitepunches]

Poor Leslye. First her boss got cancelled, and now her self-insert patricide fantasy fanfic got cancelled too.

[ebisul]

Heres my second, more concise review of The Acolyte:

Straight relationships aren’t interesting just because theyre both hot

[porgsforqimir]

Where are my acolyte reylos at??

I see a lot of antis in the oshamir posts and I want to support my fellow content starved reylos who have been in the trenches since 2015.

Happy to see new ETL fans, but not interested in interacting with those who hated us back in the sequel days

[bereft-of-frogs]

I also don't know what to do with the Collider interview

I definitely get relating to that but I just...I don't get why this character and this context and why in the same interview she admits they were aiming for horror movie villain for that episode?

docile???? I really don't get it

cool....victim blaming a scared teenager for being vulnerable to a power he'd never encountered and not being able to resist getting his mind invaded I guess? because of his 'lack of strength'? but power of (romantic) love saves the day. I feel weird about this.

I'm so sorry I do NOT get this relationship and I'm hoping with a little distance I can make it a narrative that works for me because I really liked a lot of this show it's just getting undercut for me by how much I do not get this romance.

F- reading comprehension on the part of the interviewer because that's factually not what's said in the scene. Vernestra says, "We don't control the Force," they are demonstrably a religion and she does not argue him on that point at all, even though she probably should have. The interviewer says they watched it THREE times and apparently did not pick that up???

???? earned ????????? by doing what??? also confirmed it was supposed to be triumphant I don't get it

While I think with some distance I'll definitely rewatch because I liked a lot of it, and even that final episode and the duel...but I probably won't be watching a second season. Would love more of a bridge between the books and show for Vernestra, but like I said before I'd only really trust Justina Ireland and Tessa Gratton with that story, so I think I'm tapping out of the official narrative here, hope the remaining final three books stick the landing a bit better...

[soloscavenger353]

I saw a leak before the ep came out that said the last shot is of Osha and Qimir holding hands, and I thought it was too good to be true, or that some sort of anti-interpretation would mess it up.

BUT NO

THIS LEAKER WAS RIGHT. OSHAMIR FTW

[chevelleneech]

I hope non-Black and non-Asian fans who might also ship Reylo quickly come to understand that while Reylo did get a lot of push back for both valid and bullshit reasons… Oshamir shippers do in fact get to celebrate some of the hypocritical arguments working on our favor, because Black/bi-racial femme presenting and Asian male actors are almost never the leads in popular television and film.

They are either paired off with a white partner or they themselves are the sidekick to a white lead, and usually only date people within their ethnicity. The latter of which is neither bad nor wrong, but adds to the misguided belief that Black women and femmes and Asian men are not bankable or attractive outside their own demographic.

So I’m sorry to say, but if you are a Reylo shipper who feels slighted or even frustrated, that’s fine. Feel how you feel, I’m not saying you can’t or shouldn’t make posts about it, but white people being in corruption arc romances or etl is not a rare occasion. Meaning, when yet another one exhibits traits that are toxic or not so great, it is fine for people to not like it. It’s fine for people to call it annoying or repetitive, because it is. When it comes to non-white characters who either match ethnicities or are in an interracial relationship without a white partner, it automatically becomes something new.

Why? Because we do not often see it play out that way on screen. And no, Osha won’t be dealing with anti-Blackness or misogynoir on screen nor will Qimir deal with Asian stereotyping, because race and ethnicity aren’t played the same in Star Wars as far as I know, but that doesn’t mean their casting matters less in reality. At the end of the day, it’s all fiction, but that doesn’t change the fact that Black people and Asian (Filipino men to be exact) people shouldn’t be allowed this opportunity to seem ourselves reflected back on screen in the same genre based shows white people get.

Star Wars, science fiction, and fantasy in general is so overwhelmingly white and creatured/alien, that people don’t even realize how uncommon the tropes and cliches they’re tired of seeing, really are. Osha and Qimir would kikeky still work yet not be as thrilling if either one of them were white, because a white woman being corrupted by the evil man of color has very racist connotations, and a woman of color being corrupted by a misunderstood white man is very common on screen. And if they’re both white… then it’s just a Reylo do over, isn’t it?

So like I said, I understand people will be frustrated and want to know how Oshamir is different regarding the character journeys themselves, but it’s not always just about what’s on the written page. The Acolyte needs fine tuning in terms of the writing, but it’s not the worst show on tv by far. And the fact that Oshamir is interracial and non-white in the classic sense, is a huge part of why they work and why people are more interested than what may have been for Reylo.