#and we're going to start s3 you guys the way s2 ended

[loveryoushouldvecomeover-mp3]

planning on going biking + baking pie + passing by my aunt's place to get the pants she fixed me up <33

[0daylighthours0]

(part 2) A Deep Dive into Milkvan and Byler's Development: If Milkvan's Destined Endgame, Why's it Written Like This???

The decision to confirm Will to be in love with MIKE is wild, and I'll tell you why.

When you add a third party to a t.v show relationship, if the first relationship isn't perfect, people gunna start rooting for the third party. Take Stancy for instance.

Throughout s2, we got the vibes that Jonathan held feelings for Nancy. This was clear. But Nancy was still with Steve. This means, in order for us not to sympathize more for Jonathan, Nancy and Steve gotta be ✧ tight ✧. I mean, their issues must be kept at a low, and at the end of the day it's gotta be clearer to us that Nancy does in fact love Steve. Welp, that wasn’t the case. Stancy's relationship ✧ struggled ✧, justifying intimate moments between Nancy and Jonathan - making us feel as if he'd be better for her after all. A smart writing choice, as Duffers intended Jancy as season 2's endgame pairing.

Now, I'd like to point out the foreshadowing of this development.

Come the wrapping up of s1, and it seemed Nancy had retreated back to Steve.

They'd clearly reconciled and - to an outsider - all would appear to be going smoothly. But us as the audience know that not to be the case.

One reason? Well, she'd just shared a suggesting moment with Jonathan.

So our minds weren't on Steve and this show of his with Nancy. Rather, we read into Nancy's slight discomfort, and wondered if perhaps she'd prefer being with Jonathan instead.

This was of course intentional. I'd like to briefly bring to attention the similarities in these moments to ones at the end of s3 - between Mike and Will, and then Mike and El.

Here a conclusion to milkvan's seasonal drama is made, them seemingly staying together, parting on good terms. Hm. And milkvan's moment is.. kinda like stancy's. They got back together because, well, El said she loves Mike. And Steve loves Nancy. And Mike loves El right? The way Nancy loved Steve- But just, coincidentally, we have byler's reconciliation too.

This came before the guy's makeup with El, because, why? This was quite the interesting decision mates. It means that whilst he spends that moment with his girlfriend, our minds are fresh off of Will. People might read into the way he's acting in contrast, just maybe, the way they did during stancy. And people did. That's a bit of a fumble on the writers' part, if you ask me. I know you're trying to let us know that Mike's now on good terms with both members, and his and El's goodbye needs to be the dramatic finishing of the season, but, man, did byler even have to make up at all here you guys? I mean this miscommunication of theirs lasts through to s4 (just like janc-). Why not sort their good terms out later or earlier on, so that we have more mindspace here to focus solely on milkvan, our main main? Or at least, why not just have Mike apologize to Will and be done with it? He could even apologize alongside Lucas, making the moment less personal. And Will could simply forgive him, give a dudely pat it out, and that's it. We wash our hands.

But nah. There's this electricity in the air. The swelling music, the prolonged looks, this doesn't.. seem like a simple make up. It's startlingly short, making us feel as if there have been things left unsaid. And that line,

".. Not possible."

It's so... implying. What do you mean? Why are you looking at eachother like that? What am I meant to get from this scene?

And it isn't a closing reconciliation either, they haven't properly ended their season's drama. I mean no one even apologized for the argument, we're just sort of left with this. Left with the hint of a story that might be further explored - their moment coming off more as anticipation for what's to come than a conclusion. Maybe just a bit like Jonathan and Nancy s1.

But so what? That does not have to mean anything romantic between them is to be told. After all, El just expressed to Mike that she loves him. This means that these sweethearts are practically fortold as endgame, right?

Alright I'll stop stalling.

Season 4.

So. Will is in love with Mike now. Huh. Well, I don't recommend this. As I said, you risk people rooting for Will beyond their hopes for Mike and El as a couple. If this is a plotline you desire, it has to be navigated with precision. So this means that milkvan must be on their A game. Struggle between them has got to be handled delicately. As we see in stancy, and as we saw in s3, just making up at the end of it all isn't good enough. You can risk this mistake once, but we must like these guys together throughout season 4, more than we sorrow for Will. Infact, Will's feelings must not be made too big of a deal. Mike and El are going to stay together, so we should feel a bit sorry for him, but not gather any hope that things will actually work out to his favour.

Like Dustin in s2. He sprouted small feelings for Max, and so did Lucas. Lumax were the endgame, so Dustin's feelings were craftly navigated and not made more important than Max and Lucas' bond. We don't really feel that Dustin is in love with Max, moreso that he likes her and has some moments of jealousy aimed at Lucas. Noone really wanted him with her more than they rooted for Lumax, though we did sympathize for him and feel bad for him regardless.

So yeah, this can easily be written out for Will too. If his story's purpose is meant for the exploration of a gay kid navigating a still homoph#bic time, then there's a lot that can be done without even having to spare much screen time between him and Mike. Focus on his fear of judgement from Jonathan moreso maybe, or have Argyle say something - it can be whatever, mention something homoph#bic, mention something not homoph#bic and give Will hope, whatever - which sets off a thought or idea for Will that prepares his arc for the season.

Back to Mike and El - so we want a 'scared to say "I love you"' subplot. That's good, that good. Fleshes out Mike, plays into El's fears. Shouldn't be too hard.

There's already a mild problem though. This plot is playing out twice at once. We have our boy Will hosting this same fear of rejection by Mike - at least that's how things have been shot. His dread is portrayed through his restraint and timidity in revealing his painting to Mike. Will's painting is basically his version of a confession - the guy too selfless, shy and afraid to express his love outright.

So playing out this storyline at the double is.. a choice. I mean, Mike telling El he loves her is a big deal for the milkvans, shouldn't this romance dominate as much screen time as possible in order to be fully pumped up without any sidetracks to other insignificant in comparison feelings? S3 was already quite clumsy, why not have Mike and El's activities soak in all viewers' engrossment without any departures? Maybe spend a bit of time demonstrating how likeable and wholesome they actually are together. Now that we have Will's affection ontop it all, what's important is that Mike and El's camera time spent matters. They can be angsty, they can withhold some misunderstandings, but they still have to be a good. couple.

Oh yeah, also, Mike should blatantly display feelings for El and El only - duh.

.

..

huh ?

huh ? ? ?

[mitochondriaandbunnies]

Miami Vice S1E21: No One Lives Forever

Sonny's new girlfriend distracts him from his work; Rico hates her.

Where do I fucking start with this one

Okay. Crime. Let's start there.

The actual crime in this episode is so inconsequential that the criminals literally have no motive but "do crime," because that's not what the episode is about. The crime is mere set-dressing for the actual thematic core of the episode, which is "Sonny's Relationships." There will be a number of Sonny's Girlfriends episodes, especially in S3 when they were trying to Heterosexual It Up, but that's not what this one is (and Brenda gets to leave the storyline relatively unharmed, too, whereas the girlfriends in the Sonny's Girlfriends episodes... uhh... don't)

I'm really serious about how stupid the crime part of it is though

Death - the ULtiMat HiGH!

These dudes just drive around Miami jacking cars and shooting up hotdog stands, there is no nuance to it at all. I think this is the least nuanced portrayal of criminals in the entire series.

That's because the nuance is all stored in Tubbs' Roiling Jealousy Over Sonny's New Girlfriend. After we watch the crime idiots jack some cars, we cut to Sonny and Rico talking, and Rico spends about ten sentences complaining about how Sonny has been unavailable recently because of ~Brenda.~ He is so obviously uncool with Brenda that Sonny calls him out on it, asking if he's jealous (the implication being Sonny has misinterpreted the obvious jealousy as Tubbs wanting a Brenda of his own), and Rico, with absolutely not an ounce of sincerity in his voice, backtracks and is like PFFT. No. Falling in love is GREAT

Which like. Is not actually a response to Sonny's question

We meet Brenda canoodling with Sonny, and she asks him why his marriage ended. He dances around the question and asks her in return "who the ugliest guy she ever dated" was. They are very much not on the same page in terms of the seriousness of their relationship. Brenda is asking hard-hitting, "I'm thinking about our future together" questions, and Sonny is asking like... two girls giggling at a sleepover questions.

(I find this super interesting also from a "Sonny is heavily queercoded throughout the series" standpoint-- the "morning after" scene also has Sonny framed very much like women often are in media, waking up in someone else's bed and finding them already up and working out downstairs. Brenda is also significantly wealthier and more successful than he is, and a lot of their love scenes are filmed in a very soft, delicate way that positions them very equally. There's something especially about the scene where they're kissing in the pool, and we see both of their bare backs floating in the sun, that feels almost like we're watching two women. Considering Sonny has another dalliance with a short-haired blonde woman where he's very feminized at the beginning of S2, this feels very purposeful?)

Brenda is played by Kim Griest, who I know best as Kay Gallagher from Wiseguy. This is not what anyone else knows her best as.

Brenda is working out in Sonny's shirt, which she gives back to him all sweaty and gross, and that is the worst crime she commits (but let's be clear: it is a crime. Why would you put on someone else's clothes to work out??)

At the precinct, Gina asks Rico if he thinks the relationship "must be real." She is also clearly jealous, but sad instead of angry, and definitely not remotely aware that Tubbs is jealous. He is uncomfortable talking with her on the subject, makes a somewhat unkind joke at Sonny's expense ("Whatever that means"), and slithers out and away so he doesn't have to keep having this conversation.

"Eye contact is for losers"

Also, Rico and Gina have the theoretical potential to be really wonderful friends and allies as the senior members of the "Sonny uses me as an emotional crutch" club, but the writers never decide to go for that, and instead you get the sense that they just can't ever really be honest with each other and that's a bummer

Sonny and Rico go to make a bust and Sonny calls Brenda mid-mission, which is foolish and supposed to demonstrate how his mind isn't on his work. However, what I'm more interested in is how this phone call with Brenda mirrors two other Important Phone Calls With Women: when Sonny calls Brenda, he's not saying anything of consequence. He's cute and flirty, but that's about it. Then, when he realizes a shooting is going down, he doesn't hang up-- he runs out of the phone booth and quite literally leaves Brenda hanging. She hears gunshots and gets no explanation or closure on what is happening until much later. This is in direct contrast to the pilot, where Sonny's call to Caroline in the middle of the mission is completely vital. utterly heartfelt, and provides extremely needed closure. It is also in contrast to the last phone call he has with Caitlin in Deliver Us From Evil near the end of season four, where Caitlin calls him, tries to tell him something important, and he brushes her off and tells her he'll talk to her later. In all three cases, there's an intersection (and conflict) between his love life and work life: with Caroline he's confirming that even though ultimately he chose work over love, that their love was always real; with Brenda he's briefly choosing her over work and then realizing that's a mistake and ignoring her feelings completely; with Caitlin he seems to have given up on the idea of romance ever being successful and chooses work over her because that's just what he does. Vice states time and time again that there's no fixing the broken justice system from the inside, and that any so-called "good cop" will eventually destroy himself and/or all those around him; Sonny's inability to balance the case and Brenda foreshadows all his other relationships failing as well. Caroline only gets out unscathed because she chooses to divest herself completely from Sonny's world, and Sonny won't find peace until he does the same.

Gina shoots one last shot and Sonny turns her down pretty definitively, and the scene feels frankly like character assassination for Gina. The last time we saw them be at all "couple-y" was way back in episode 8, and even that was already after they'd had more than one "this is a bad idea and we shouldn't be doing it" conversation. Gina asks Sonny if he's "just keeping her around for a pitstop," but the show has not indicated they've been dating for what likely accounts for at least six months (and possibly up to a year) of in-universe time. As a result, her jealousy seems not like it's based in the solid and thoughtful characterization of Gina Calabrese, Vice Detective, but rather in hoary old gender stereotypes: she's a hysterical woman who somehow hasn't realized her relationship (if it ever even was a relationship) has been over for half a year. So when Sonny quietly and sadly responds with "that's not fair" (because if they haven't been dating for 12+ episodes, it's really not fair for her to say that-- she has no control or ownership over his love life at this point), he seems like he's in the right. I am certain this conversation was written by a heterosexual man, and I hate how much Gina's characterization gets worse every time the show decides to create romantic tension between her and Sonny. Gina deserves better, in-universe and out.

Then we cut immediately to Brenda asking Sonny if he and Tubbs have "been partners long." This scene alone deserves an essay; the long story short version is that Brenda asks Sonny if being cop partners is like a marriage, whether your partner always comes first (off the job and on), and whether or not he'd ever think of her as "his partner in crime." Sonny, notably, does not answer a single one of these questions directly. He deflects and jokes, hearkening back to her serious question about the dissolution of his marriage and his jokey response about "ugly guys."

This is his face before she asks if "his partner always comes first:"

Aaand this is his face after he processes what she's just asked him:

When he responds to that question with the ambiguous "Well, on the job...," Brenda looks like this:

And then Sonny follows up with saying he doesn't remember the last time he wasn't on the job, which is to say that he implies that yes, Rico does always come first. Like. Damn, Sonny. Maybe... try lying a little?

Izzy claims to be selling "Richard Gere's shoes" and wooden clogs, because why not

Tubbs tells Crockett his mind is elsewhere, and that he should "take a few days" to "get over whatever it is you need to get over," which is among the bitchiest things he says in the entire course of the show. Rico is usually very patient, cool-headed, and compassionate, but every once and a while he says something downright cruel, and when he does it's often with a smile. He strikes me as the sort of person who has learned and chosen to be good to people rather than someone who's nature is to be kind by default. When Sonny, who is a curmudgeon on the surface but fairly soft and naive on the inside, gets mad, he lashes out; when Rico, who is thoughtful and easy-going on the surface but surprisingly unsentimental inside, gets mad, he gets mean.

On the Dance, Brenda tells Sonny she thinks being there with him is paradise; he deflects and talks about smoking. Brenda asks about Sonny's "closeness" with his coworkers again, and he's weird about it; when she clarifies she's talking about "the woman cop" (Gina), Sonny ceases entirely to mince words like he had with Tubbs. The difference is stark; he's willing to explain to Brenda that yes, at once point he and Gina had sex. He's not willing to explain anything about his partnership with Tubbs-- and yet, Brenda talks like she knows Tubbs, and isn't entirely sure who Gina is, so we know he's talked lot more about Rico than Gina.

When Rico and Brenda do meet, Rico immediately tries to tank their relationship by throwing Sonny under the bus. He implies Sonny is an idiot and bad at his job, and basically tells Brenda she'll eventually leave him.

Okay. Brenda committed one more crime. It's this table:

Izzy continues wearing clogs

Tubbs continues being an enormous bitch, telling Sonny Brenda's not his type, and that his type is "the bearded lady at the circus." Jealousy looks really bad on you, Rico my broski. You are being so so mean to the guy you have a super obvious crush on.

He then asks Sonny to go to dinner with him; Sonny says no because he's got a date with Brenda, but they agree to meet at 6am for a stakeout. On their date, Brenda asks Sonny about marriage and he gets extremely uncomfortable and goes to bed alone when she asks about who their friends would be.

Either because a) he did not set an alarm and was relying on Brenda to wake him up on time, in which case he's a fucking idiot, or b) because he did set an alarm and Brenda turned it off, in which case she has no respect for Sonny at all, Sonny misses his 6am meeting with Rico and Rico gets the shit beat out of him.

Castillo puts Sonny on desk duty because Sonny is a fuck-up. He goes on a sad boat ride over which Red 7's Heartbeat plays to a montage of Brenda, beat up Rico, and disapproving Castillo.

On stakeout, Tubbs plays the saxophone (do we ever see him do that again?) and Gina is reading A Man for All Seasons, which I suppose is doing something as a parallel with regards to the moral repercussions of the dissolution of a relationship but I don't frankly feel enlightened enough on the Tudors to expound on that

Sonny breaks up with Brenda; his line is "you're a very special person and you mean a great deal to me," which is about as unromantic as you can get. Brenda calls what they had a "wonderful fantasy;" Sonny says he can't afford fantasies. They leave it vaguely open but absolutely do not continue dating-- we don't ever see Brenda again. (Good for her.)

Returning to the actual crime, the three Death is the Ultimat High idiots roll around in bed with their guns smashing radios, declare themselves out of money, and go off for another hot dog stand murder. They come upon the stakeout with Tubbs and Gina, and Tubbs is chased down and about to be killed when Sonny swoops in heroically at the last minute and saves him. They end the episode walking away with their arms around each other. Because, you know. Partnership marriage something something something.

Hear me out: I am not convinced Sonny is talking about Brenda when he says "he can't afford a fantasy." The one romantic relationship Sonny has in the series that involves grounded, real-life issues, and actually talking through things like an adult is his relationship with Caroline, which he chooses to have healthy closure regarding. Every other romantic relationship Sonny has is, to some extent a fantasy-- he dates a pop star, a surgeon, a madame-- even Gina is a kind of fantasy to Sonny, as a sweet and understanding always-available fallback. He actually can only afford a fantasy-- he's aware, to some extent, that a normal relationship with a normal woman is likely to end the same way it did with Caroline. Considering all of the very pointed parallels between Rico and Brenda, between "partnership" and "relationship," and knowing that we'll learn in the next episode that Sonny watched one of his best friends die because of his sexuality, I don't think it's wildly out there to think that maybe the fantasy Sonny truly can't afford is one where he can make his partner his number one priority, on and off the job, and be happy about it and accept himself for it. He knows he can't afford that particular fantasy because he's literally seen someone pay for it with his life.

Oh god this was so long

And I didn't even talk about the "department softball games" scene or the lyrics to Heartbeat

Help me

[ladyluscinia]

We're just gonna start numbering these so I can a little bit keep track of them:

2x08 Reaction #1

Ok, they wanted to force end on a "good" note for BlackBonnet in case there is no S3. They kinda fucked it, but that was the goal.

So... why did they do any of that with the Kraken arc at all?

Like my biggest takeaway from the BlackBonnet arc for this season is that they didn't really develop forward. It started with a HUGE backslide for Edward, he sorta got back to the shaky S1 baseline but with way more baggage, then they backslid both of them again... and then the season finale is running across a beach to each other (rose-tinted fantasy style), kissing a few times, "I love you" -> "I know", and then retiring to turn a shack into an inn together.

There's nothing there in terms of, like, growth and progress on their respective issues. No time for it.

...why not?

It's not like S1 actually locked in what Kraken arc needed to be. I was genuinely shocked they went so hard on it for 3 whole episodes - pleasantly shocked, because I thought it was going somewhere interesting, but like. I did not think they would backslide that hard because they didn't have that many episodes and our guys already had a lot of issues to work through.

Like if you wanted a quasi-happy ending just in case maybe Edward didn't need to dig into the absolute darkest recesses of his soul and be haunted by the spectre of his suicidal intent that makes him self-sabotage his relationships for over 3/4 of the season. Maybe that was a bit too big of a lurch backwards to then correct for and sell us on enough growth that his relationship feels at all stable?

Making the season about backsliding and failing to talk about their traumas with each other was a choice, and it doesn't work very well with a happy ending beat here (vs S1 about first attempt at relationship + S2 about backsliding and lessons learned + S3 about genuine growth).

Just... why would you even try happy innkeeper ending and suicidal Kraken era in the same season??? You only had like 4 hours of screen time. And way more than two characters.

You didn't need to go that hard on Edward's whole thing if you didn't have the time to stick the landing. Or even stumble the landing but still get points for trying.

Like now that landing needs medical attention.

[finalgirlwillbyers]

I watched Mysterious Skin for the first time, and season 2 Will is so clearly inspired by Brian. Now I am even more mad at ST writers for his s3-s4 treatment. They never explored his trauma further, in most viewers’ eyes he’s just a sad boy who « is not ready to grow up » and therefore is left behind / is hopelessly in love with his best friend / acts as a relationship counselor for the said friend / is a Vecna radar. How and when is he going to cope with the repercussions of his abduction/ abuse to be able to accept himself and move on? There’s so much to « unpack », and people keep quoting Mike’s unpacking line from s4 lol. Will Duffers drop the assault subtext added in s1-s2 to never address it and pretend Henry / MF took Will for his « powers »? Or was it all magically « fixed » by the power of love (shed scene) and literal exorcism at the end of s2? I hope not, but then there’s so little time to cover it all AND develop Byler? Lol Will is so not ready for the relationship with Mike (who is still dating Will’s sister which adds even more guilt and unnecessary drama to the whole thing).

Eric from MS in a letter to Neil told he thinks Brian is asexual. Then there was a scene with this woman trying to touch Brian, he panicked as it triggered memories of the assault. Per Duffers, ST is a story of a « supernatural kidnapping », so we most likely won’t see anything similar in text. But it kills me when people imagine Byler’s first kiss as this aggressive collision initiated by Mike during one of their inevitable fights. Like ok it’s dramatic and all, but are you guys sure Will is going to be comfortable with that? I don’t think so, even if it’s « you make me feel like I’m not a mistake at all » Mike.

Writers have a lot of work to do to make sure this poor selfless boy faces his trauma, learns to love himself the way he is, accepts his sexuality, treats his desires as a normal thing and moves on. Mike’s ST4 version is so not ready to help with that, the boy needs to be a better friend first, and only then a romantic partner (and who knows how much time he’ll need to start dealing with his insecurities / internal struggles first, face his queerness, sort things with El and admit his feelings for Will?)

So how do Duffers address all of that in ST5 with so many characters and plot lines? I have no idea.

Short answer: they won't.

There are too many ensemble members for the writers to delve into Will's trauma in-depth. We're going to see a revival and expansion of dropped plot threads, just like with El in Stranger Things 4. Who knows if that includes the sexual assault imagery and subtext. It's a shame that the writers are unwilling to tackle that textually, but that aligns with several other creative choices (ex. psionic powers being transferred via mutated blood).

Like I've said many times before, it's important for Will and Mike to grow individually before getting together. They both have personal and emotional conflicts that need to be addressed. Conflicts which impede the resolution of the love triangle plot line.

[tonydaddingham]

I’m so torn on whether I want there to be an angsty desperate mid-season kiss before the resolution just to make us scream or drag the tension out til right after the resolution when everything is Finally Settled For Good and rain is falling and Aziraphale can make his apology/confession and it’s slow and tender and deep

(either way, if the Penultimate Kiss isn’t a 360-degree revolving shot I don’t want it, v much convinced that was what Neil wanted to do for the Final Fifteen before he changed his mind)

i genuinely daydream about this (and s3 in general) an ungodly amount (do i just need to pull on my big girl pants and dive into the foray of writing fic??? probably) and try to juggle what would make sense for the narrative and the characters, and make it less about what i want to see from s3 personally ep1 sex scene cold open + '7 days earlier titlecard'

babes i know this is not at all what you asked for (tldr at the bottom) but bugger it im gonna write out where im currently at with the whole 'i would give all my worldly goods for s3 to go something like this'

(and if i ever write fic consider this basically the framework) (and therefore is half serious half bants) (and if nothing else helps keep meta/speculation straight in my head - imagining it all in context):

ep1 cold opens with another BTB flashback but set after the s2 one (aziraphale and crowley arguing about the brewing rebellion for example, aziraphale tries to warn him again etc, no wing lift), and then hard cut to modern day aziraphale, stood in the exact same position but alone, in his new regalia blah blah blah, roll opening theme

so ep1 is likely gonna be a fair bit of exposition of the second coming, right? maybe there's a timeskip? either way we get glimpses into their existences in the After. im undecided whether crowley would remain in london, or specifically the bookshop? (i think he would, because there's opportunity for a mirror of the 'he saved my books' moment - ie. not let muriel sell a single one - which im sure you can imagine could be Delicious later on), but in any case i think crowley - given that he's keeping tabs on tadfield etc in s2 - would start noticing that maybe the world isn't quite right, Loads of people have started going missing (also dropped as clues in s2), natural disasters etc. Hmm This Is Strange

meanwhile, we get a bit of insight into aziraphale's daily headache in heaven, until they finally get the fax from 'god' about the plane carrying the big JC (and, look, Whoever it is that gets off the plane, whatever theory you subscribe to, let's say hypothetically it's absolutely not jezzy c and aziraphale knows it... warlock? idk). aziraphale realises it's all gone A Bit Wrong, ah shit gonna need to talk to crowley.... rolls credits

(plus im sure there will be new characters plus possible reintroductions of previous ones etc etc that will need screentime)

so they don't interact at all until ep2, not until maybe like 10 mins in - muriel calls mr crowley, he gets to the bookshop and walks in

aziraphale waiting in there, casual as you like with a dainty cupperty (wrong, he's shitting himself), and there's the awkward moment of 'oh when we were last here alone you snogged the living daylights out of me', but they're very much Not Talking (About It)

aziraphale explains what's going on, it's all going wrong, They Can't Find Josh, crowley probably gets a bit shitty with a bit of 'i told you so', aziraphale gets pissed off too because 'he's kinda got a point', but regardless please help

i think crowley would initially refuse - why would he want to be involved at all??? in ending humanity once and for all??? - and would probably leave after a bit of a wessex-flashback-callback of 'we're not having this conversation'/'fine'/'fine!'

idk maybe aziraphale would go back to heaven and start to reeeeeally panic, because the guy they've got in heaven is definitely Not The Messiah, and aziraphale needs to find Him before shit really hitteth the fan, but he needs someone on earth to help him (sigh better go back and ask crowley again)

crowley meanwhile takes this information and possibly works out that actually lol turns out the second coming came a bit early, and yeah probably do need to find him before the world starts going completely to shit - aziraphale comes back and crowley agrees this time (✨a new Arrangement✨) (OH 'THE ARRANGEMENT' WOULD BE SUCH A GOOD EP TITLE)

but it's like. The Arrangement if it was truly all Just Business - they're Not Friends etc

maybe crowley going back to hell in reconnaissance mode would feature here? deploys the beloved tactical turtleneck again? ends up claiming the grand duke position or something? or has been grand duke all along? idk

now i would LOVE another long cold open of flashbacks, but idk if that's gonna happen, probably not. but possibly ep3 is them strategising, sharing intel, Still Not Talking, trying to put the pieces together (i still convinced that warlock/greasy johnson are gonna fit in here somewhere so like. return to tadfield? ripe opportunity to bring back The Them, Anathema/Newt etc)

REVERSE WALL SLAM and maybe a little bit of a spat where some of the anger from the final fifteen is let loose or something - but nothing resolved

probably some more shenanigans of shit going down in heaven, with Cheesus running rampant - angels starting to wonder wtf is going on (and god still has her out of office email on)

maybe the end of ep3 is that they work out what's happening - who JC is, where he is, why the second coming has already started, idk but like major plot pieces start slotting together

so ep4 is where it starts getting hazy but like. i feel that this is gonna be roundabout the time where aziraphale and crowley are in the bookshop researching like mad, trying to piece stuff together, come up with Plans, and maybe crowley goes looking in aziraphale's desk, and unearths the Photo - CUE 1941 FINAL FLASHBACK

and then we return maybe to present day? and this is where they finally get out all the shit that has been building up over the centuries, and culminated in the final fifteen - all the times they've upset the other, lied to the other, etc

tender bit towards the end of this - i need a "my dear" or even BETTER a "darling" thrown in here somewhere

however. i don't think there will be a kiss. a lot of shouting, crying, and maybe yeah stuff coming to some kind of tentative resolution/understanding, but not a kiss. idk i just don't think they'd be ready for it - they might come close to it, like i suspect happened in 41, but they both just honestly say they're not ready but that they meant what they said and that their One Day is coming, they're not done, they're not over 🥹🥹

nownownow hmmmm - end of ep4? angels/demons both come for them; shit's going on in the background, they've twigged this time they're Up To Something, and this time the bookshop isn't protected as it should be - get their arses hauled up to heaven. and major thing? metatron/crowley showdown - not a physical one but a...... 'oh didn't he tell you, aziraphale?'

EP5 LONG ASS COLD OPEN OF THE WAR AND THE FALL

book of life explanation in here somewhere idk

and then yeah maybe a bit of a pinnacle moment for aziraphale of choosing crowley after whatever is revealed from the fall? because he's keeping his promise dammit and he's choosing their side, always their side

firefight out of heaven (if aziraphale falls in the process im gonna throw hands but also. mmmm whump material) and maybe then the 360 kiss? bc you're so right and i totally agree - im glad they didn't do it for s2, but i do think it was initially intended and I Need It

someone gets injured probably but they all flee down to the bookshop and start preparing for whatever is about to come - heaven and hell vs. them/humanity etc. plus the dream sequence of the bookshop will never leave my mind Ever

idk if they'd stay there tho, maybe get back out to tadfield. further heart to heart probably after the whole fall, all cards on the table, 'is there still an us'/'of course there is you old silly' thing

and whilst i don't think ep6 will be like a huge battle, seems a bit ooc, Shit Goes Down, largely gets resolved in the first half just like s1. vavoom (not that kinda vavoom) (maybe) sorted

second coming gets sorted. idk how. but it does

id love for there to actually be some kind of interaction with god? in a way? even if she just stays silent, and they basically just come to their own conclusions about What The Point Is, and she just. smiles like the mona lisa

then the rest of ep6 is just. pure south downs

kiss

OOOOH a kiss outside the front door of their new yellow cottage (i live and die by the yellow cottage aesthetic) (because it's ✨pretty✨) AND IT'S RAINING BUT IT'S OKAY BECAUSE THERE'S A CUTE LITTLE GABLE PORCH OVER THEIR FRONT DOOR now there's a Vavoom

and another

oh go on then have another. and a cuddle. artful shot of them waking up of a sunny peaceful morning in bed together snuggling (ft. tasteful duvet/blanket draping? yes pls)

end of s3 has them slow dancing in the lounge/kitchen (in the GARDEN???) to The Song and the nightingale flies away from the windowsill outside (you can pry this visual away from my cold dead hands)

RIGHT so this is complete overkill @silcosmoke and for that you have my most profuse apologies bestie but. tldr yes a passionate snog in the midst of Tension and Drama, and then just lots of lovely little nice ones ☺️💕

[aithusarosekiller]

Hi Archie! How’s your day going?

The Crowley was Raphael theory? Tell me more Archie! I need to know more..

Hiiii

I'm pretty good actually :D how are you?

It's really late rn and I'm so tired sleeping this so ignore any mistakes haha!

I've rambled about this theory too much lately so I'm just gonna say random stuff and tag the theory tag so you can indulge in everyone else's thoughts but basically

Based on all the teasing in s2, I think we're getting a reveal in s3 and I think that either

1) Crowley will be revealed to have been the previously missing Raphael (which seems to line up well with a lot: the snake thing, the 'I think I understand better than you do' thing, the everyone knows him thing, the knows god personally thing, the 'Raphael seems to be conveniently not mentioned...maybe to hide heaven's institutional problems?' thing, the 'walks on earth and helps protect humans' thing, the 'is Lucifer Satan in this universe? And he says 'Lucifer and the guys at one point but who knows how he meant it' thing, the 'how do you know it wasn't me?' In reference to archangel power thing, the 'close enough to god to think he's safe asking questions' thing, the whole 'his bitterness towards Gabriel feeling distinctly sibling-y even if it was rooted in love for aziraphale' thing, something about the fact he keeps houseplants and terrifies them into submission while trying to keep them alive and 'perfect' feels like he can't deal with smth not being perfect or 'healed' as a lingering thing from his past- he pushes them to be healthy and perfect...can he not do that for them anymore?, the 'knowing when somebody is too far gone to heal' thing and the acceptance of human passing (that feels very important in s2 for some reason) thing, the 'are they making Lucifer a prince of heaven or were they on about someone else, how is this working?' Thing, the 'we know he was powerful so there's a small chance could be Raph thing, smth about the metatron wanting him back and as an Angel...is he luring him using Azi? Does he want Raph back to replace Gabriel?, the 'his cute prefall self gives off both Raph and Lucifer energy and it's so strong it is suffocating' thing, the way he didn't even hesitate when opening the file which suggests that he was RIGHT at the top bc if he was only just high enough he may have hesitated or considered other precautions put in place to stop him from spying, the SARAQAEL TRUSTED HIM SO QUICKLY??? Thing...they really hoped he remembered them???? That's weird..., something about the job story that I cannot articulate, the fact Raphael is MISSING (possibly thought to have just DISAPPEARED) in relation to the number of times Crowley suggests running away, he hates the idea of earth and human life ending for the start...does he want an endless cycle of growing and...gradual healing? Something something he protects people from before the beginning something something, etc)

OR

2) Aziraphale will get his position as head archangel and BECOME the Raphael of the series bc of the name similarity, the healing thing, and the fact the name Raphael hasn't even been mentioned thus far, while Crowley is revealed to have been another angel, likely either Lucifer or Barachiel (both of which would be pretty cool)

I personally prefer option 1 but option two is looking prettyyyyy likely I will admit. I'd be happy with either but...Raph Crowley has a special spot in my heart

[sagethegremlin]

since leitmotifs is your thing, I would love to see your personal analysis on the evolution of the ringtone "over the horizon" by Samsung. quite frankly, I think it is a very important thing to analyze, as something so trivial as a ringtone has shaped our view of a phone.

/hj and /lh looool

Ok so ringtones are something that most people never really think about in their day-to-day lives. It's a noise we hear all the time, and something that we most often will take for granted with how much it is "overplayed" to us. Personally, I've only ever had an iphone so I am not at all used to Samsung's ringtone, which I feel gives me a unique perspective on the matter.

So without further ado, I'll take this year by year and then analyze my results at the end

2011 (Galaxy S2): This is off to a great start. We have a good theme, and the percussion behind it is perfect. This is the kind of ringtone you want to have in your pocket. The kind that says "we're in a disney summer movie montage and we're living our best life!" Overall, a great start.

2012 (Galaxy S3): This one feels like it's trying to do too much. It still has the core leitmotif from the first ringtone, but gone are the feel good vibes of the percussion. Every note that is rung in here feels like it's trying to personally attack you, and that's not even to mention the drums! Everything here is too sharp, and the violins come completely out of nowhere. This definitely feels more like what you would expect a ringtone to be, rather then something that makes you smile when you hear it.

2013 (Galaxy S4): OH WE'RE SO BACK. This is definitely more aligned to the feel of the first one, but it also did so much more without seeming like it was trying to! This is the first one that really uses the core theme more like a leitmotif, and treats it as "this is the melody that you're used to, as a little treat, but check out this too!" and that's exactly what it should be! All in all, this one's just lovely.

2014 (Galaxy S5): This is pretty much just like the 2013 one but I definitely noticed that the parts where the orchestra crescendoed were much stronger, giving it a much more prideful feel.

2015 (Galaxy S6): Ok I'm not saying this one is bad, but it kinda comes out of nowhere and has this vibe to it like you're either about to get a news report or witness a major moment in a coming of age edited in imovie. It also just kind of abruptly cuts off? There's no musical resolution here and that makes me sad. :(

2016 (Galaxy S7): This one starts off so good. It's got a good beat to it and we're vibing so hard dude. But then, it uh, uh, it kinda struggles? I get that was how it composed but it honestly feels like someone on a marimba is struggling to keep time and it makes me nervous like girl we do not need these eighth and sixteenth rests in here we are perfectly fine without them thank you (still better than 2015 tho).

2017 (Galaxy S8): HELLO??? GIRLIE WHERE DID YOU COME FROM THIS IS THE BEST ONE YET! THE BUM BUM BAAS??? Anyway this one is genuinely so incredibly incredible. It starts off with a good beat that it continues to keep up throughout, it makes good use of the leitmotif, and there's a bunch of guys vocalizing in the background like who's idea was that that's incredible!!! :D

2018 (Galaxy S9): This is literally just the emotional climax of a coming of age story it isn't even a ringtone anymore.

2019 (Galaxy S10): Oh she wants to be the sims 4 character creator theme so bad. Anyway this one also doesn't really feel like a ringtone but not in a bad way! Girlie is going off in the string instrument department and it is paying off this just feels great. And the way they do the original leitmotif in the chimes at the end? Oh I love her.

2020 (Galaxy S20): This one is kinda sweet and chill. It definitely feels like it's being played on either a sitar or a mandolin, and it uses that to create a very chill vibe. There are no background instruments or percussion at all, so that really just further proves that these are straying more and more away from the sound of a typical ringtone (for better or for worse). I will say, this definitely feels like something I would try to fall asleep to, not like something I would use to remind me to pick up the phone.

2021 (Galaxy S21): She's so pretty??? I would say that this also has a similar vibe to the last one but I like it a lot more. The piano is absolutely beautiful and I really really enjoy it. And even though this also doesn't really feel like a ringtone, I'd argue that it's better at being one than the 2020 one.

(We're gonna stop there cuz I feel like it.)

If I were to rank all of these, I would say from best to worst: 2017, 2014, 2021, 2013, 2019, 2011, 2020, 2018, 2016, 2015, 2012

Ultimately, I feel like something like this is very interesting to look at. We can see overtime Samsung trying different strategies with this and how that reflects on their future models for it. For example, we ended up with most of these reflecting what I've been calling the "coming of age story" vibe, and we notice how they strive to create much more of a beautiful song to listen to than something trying to alert you of calls. All in all, an interesting look at such a mundane part of life.

[thebiggestmenace]

we're in the double digits, boys!!!

also nearing where I stopped watching :o

totally thought she was talking about Dean???

it's Sam's turn to be threatening now, I guess

so Dean wants him to let him go now?

oh, he left Sam to start his singing career

Crowley took the jerk/bitch thing??

"I am going to kill you dead" I've been waiting for this one :D

you really don't care that he might kill Sam???

"he lied. ✨️he is a liar✨️" love the way you said that Cas

you don't mean that, Dean

demon!Dean sounds like a dog

was that honestly all it took? seems like it was a bit too easy

ROWENA!!!! HI!!!!

omg its the frowny face firefly soldier from tlou :o

omg the musical episode 🤭 I thought it was the one with Chuck

Chuck does show up!!! yippee!!! also doesn't Sam still have the amulet? I feel like he grabbed it when Dean threw it out, so surely he still has it?

we haven't fully met Claire yet, but I have been seeing things and Cas just brought up his family - is Claire actually his kid?? I thought she was just somebody the boys picked up :o *

"I know how my story ends" no, you don't, Dean. stfu

* SHE IS!!!!! don't think I realized that?? somehow????

Cas is such a dad

just sit right next to him, why don't you, Cas?

oooo evil Charlie

Charlie really is their sister :(((

Dean's a child now??

wait, I think I remember this episode?

can he actually kill Cain? will it even work?

"And then you'd kill the angel, Castiel. Now, that one - that I suspect would hurt something awful" so you admit it? Dean loves Cas

we're starting with a seance?? oh, hi, Bobby!!!

LOVE the sassy Sam and Cas duo

"I can't do it without my brother" I know, Sam :( I know

hi, Cas!!! you're back all the way now!!!

this is the last time they're all together and happy, isn't it.

Sam, you gotta slow down, buddy

"I got it from the Hot Topical" I forgot about this!! Cas, I love you

oh, and mini golf!!!

omg I remember this episode? I think?

I only remember the scenes with the bad guys, but I'm starting to think it's The episode. the one with Charlie? yeah, that one

it fucking is, isn't it. cause she just left Cas and Rowena.

I forgot how brutal that was.

and the montage???

not at her funeral, Dean. come on, man

they don't actually kill Crowley, do they? surely not, right? they wouldn't kill 2 (probably 3 tbh) loved characters right after each other, right?

yeah, I didn't think so

Cas sees the bunker as home :(((

wait, is this the season where Cas gets beat up and on the verge of death, he says he loves Dean? I mean, Sam and Dean? **

** nope, it's the one where Dean comes about this 🤏🏻 close to killing him

Dean just left Baby to Sam???

Death????

he's just gonna kill Sam??

nope, he killed Death

and now the Darkness is out

yk I thought s9 was bad. this one. oh-ho-ho, this one was worse. I am in so much pain, you do not understand. I don't even have the words to talk about this season, just OUCH. I do vaguely remember s11, though! so onto that we go, yaaaaaaay

s1, s2, s3, s4, s5, s6, s7, s8, s9, s10, s11, s12, s13, s14, s15

[cuntylouis]

#god I'm trying so so hard not be a bitch about this but it's soooo annoying to see people who didn't care about the show until now#suddenly decide that they need to take up with it bc for some reason one single trailer of a white guy with longer hair and a#fruity jacket who's in make-up is more compelling than two of the best seasons TV has seen in the last decade#and like I get it a lot of people really looked forward to Lestat and we DID get two season with Louis as the main and it's not even THAT#it's the fact that they even DID that trailer when they never did ANYTHING like it for the other two seasons when the marketing#department was practically silent for s2... the fact that they announced the 3rd season when they did directly before the finale#the fact that the finale WAS so rushed and that for some reason Rolin keeps talking about being SO excited to finally get to do TVL#which on one hand I get bc that's his blorbo we KNOW that but also my dude come on this isn't your fanfiction you're doing a tv show here#... like... god I don't know one of those things I could just ignore but it's EVERYTHING coming together that makes me side-eye#the entire thing so hard rn#like I WANT to have fun I WANT to enjoy watching Lestat make an ass out of himself I want to enjoy watching him on screen#but they're making it SO HARD for us with the way they are laser-focusing on the white guy in the room to the exclusion of everyone else#(obviously like... none of this is Sam's fault that man sometimes says weird shit but I think that has more to do with him just not being#good at talking and also some thoughtlessness than any active negative feelings or intentions on his part like he's FINE just don't put#every word that comes out of his mouth on the gold scales bc I can guarantee you for a lot of the shit he says he probably just didn't thin#it all the way through so 🤷🏼‍♀️ this wasn't his call and it's not his fault.)

#ALSO also the entire 'Well we won't focus on the topic of memory and POV for next season anymore' that Rolin let loose on that one intervie#with AV Club has me genuinely wondering if this man understands what he's doing#like what do you mean we spend two seasons picking apart the memory and stories of a black man and a brown man only to expose one of them#to be an unreliable narrator who needs ANOTHER white guy to safe him and the other as a straight up abusive liar#but now that the white guy walks into the room and is the one to tell his story... now we're.. we're not... we won't do that anymore?????#hey Rolin??? hey ROLIN?!?!?! is this thing on- Rolin WHAT THE FUCK kind of SHIT idea is THAT?!?!#and this is NOT to say they shouldn't have written Louis and Armand being who they ARE that's NOT it they SHOULD but oh my GOD#they should NOT have set up the seasons like that if they DIDN'T want to extend this energy towards Lestat too? like why even START IT#LIKE THIS THEN??? what was the POINT???#good LORD even if they aren't interested in continuing the 'memory is a monster'-theme which is - in my humble opinion -#the DUMBEST decision they could possibly make with this but EVEN THEN you CANNOT TELL ME they don't understand that those optics#are BAD (via @universesvisiting)

Hope including these tags is fine i just thought they were good though i don't entirely agree about everything. I'm more optimistic about s3 and since Rolin and other writers have been mostly stellar so far i have a lot of hope and confidence that they're not going to forget how to write a television show and address serious complex topics just because Rolin's blorbo will be in the spotlight. And i think the strike likely affected the ending of s2 being kind of shoddy, and i also didn't feel like Daniel was portrayed as a 'savior'. But i'm deeply annoyed that the marketing and a significant part of viewers are acting like the REAL show is starting now. Like people in the notes of my posts with Lestat going 'oh i need to start watching this now' like where have you been for the past two years.

And the most annoying thing is when any fan of color expresses any frustration with the marketing or with how many white fans are acting they get rude and condescending reactions from certain fans. I have a lot of trust in Rolin as a showrunner and writer but him having said several times now that they're moving away from unreliable narration and 'memory is a monster' when it's mr Lyingcourt's season makes me raise my eyebrows a little. I hope that Rolin is referring more to the show's narrative structure changing and there being less flashbacks etc. because if he meant to suggest that Lestat is going to be a more reliable narrator than Louis and Claudia that would be incredibly stupid

AMC discarded season 2 like a piece of trash and suddenly has knows how to market this show but iwtv fans will still try to gaslight me & others about their particular motives. 🆗️!!!! No wonder this fandom behaves like the real show is finally starting when the network does too but then I get told im overreacting or bitter 🙃

I was actually just going to make a post about this. I wouldn't go as far as saying amc is discarding s2 like a piece of trash but especially now after they released that lyric video i'm starting to feel there's a very noticeable difference in the marketing between two previous seasons and how the marketing for s3 has started (before they've even finished writing!) Some people cynically predicted in the past that a shift like this would happen when the narrative focus shifts on a white character and it sadly kind of seems they may have been right. It COULD be coincidental like if they're finally listening to people's complaints about bad and lacklustre marketing and how it's limiting their show's potential, or because iwtv is much bigger now than it was even compared to earlier this year and they've probably gotten a bigger marketing budget when amc's confidence in the show's potential has grown. But it's very suspicious that this increase of confidence and realization that their show could be a megahit they should invest in accordingly is happening right at the same time the story shifts to focus on Lestat. I don't subscribe to the idea that amc ever tried to intentionally make the show fail because it would make zero sense financially, but i get an impression they perhaps didn't trust that the first two seasons would have broad mainstream appeal, but now they trust s3 to have that.

I'm still excited for s3 but it's incredibly frustrating to see this difference compared to how s1-2 were treated, when the show's success is very much based on those seasons and their black lead. Like this show has grown its popularity slowly and organically despite weak marketing simply because of how good it and its cast is. And now when it seems to be about to hit the zeitgeist, the network decides that it's time to give full effort when the show is going to focus more on a white man. Anyone who's saying you're overreacting or bitter when pointing that out has not paid attention to how the entertainment industry works because this isn't new or unusual, and there isn't a reason to assume amc is any different than almost all the other networks and studios

[noco7]

Do you think the love triangle was forced?

I like how you say "the love triangle." I know you mean Gwen-Duncan-Courtney but like. There was a Cody-Gwen-Trent triangle before them, and an Ella-Dave-Sky love triangle afterwards. They are not the only TD love triangle out there.

I'm going to be honest, I don't personally care about the Gwen-Duncan-Courtney love triangle. I don't get the outrage. So many people see it as the end of the glorious D*ncney empire, but that relationship was crumbling before Gwen got there. I also don't care much for Gwen or Duncan as chacters 💀 Courtney all the way, and Evil!Courtney is Best!Courtney, so the love triangle did not destroy my favorite character lmao. Sorry for the rest of y'all though.

And yeah. It was forced. I think everyone believes that, and I kinda doubt you anon - that you asked this question in good faith. You just wanted to see me rant, didn't you?

And I'm gonna do it, cuz I love ranting. Yes, The Love Triangle was forced. And that's the biggest problem with it, imo. Not the result. Not Gwuncan. But all the steps it took to get there.

It's no question that Gwen and Duncan's like for each other was a little.... abrupt. They are alike, and I could even argue that they WOULD make a decent couple, but Fresh wasn't interested in writing a decent couple, and I'll touch more on that later. They were interested in the drama. So suddenly, Gwen starts missing Duncan. Suddenly, Duncan kisses her. And huzzah, one of the most controversial moments in TD History.

After all what's more soap opera than the girl's boyfriend cheating on her with her best friend? And to get to that scene, S2 and S3 were made a fuckton worse.

The thing about Gwuncan is not just that it's poorly written. It's because the writers had to demolish Gwent and Duncney to get there. And instead of putting down Gwent with grace and dignity, or having their relationship generally peter out, the writers just machet-ed it. And in the fandom's eyes, that's *Gwuncan's* fault.

In the real world you can't blame your bad breakup on the next guy your girl gets with. But this isn't the real word, this is writing. And word on the street is that TD had to fuck up Gwent so that they could get Gwuncan. So now Gwuncan represents the downfall of Gwent.

Duncney, on the other hand, was just... they needed to make the relationship worse in Action, obviously. But how they went about it (even I though I enjoy evil Courtney), did a disservice to her character arc in Island. There's nothing wrong with characters regressing, or making a dark turn, but like. You need to have a reason.

A lot of people say that reason was her anger on being rigged out. And she's right to be angry about it. But how is it Duncan's fault? (I actually have a figured out a way that makes sense but like, TD didn't. And we're examining THEM.)

So now Duncney sucks, so Duncan has a "reason," to cheat on her.

Great. So that's why S2 sucks. What about S3?

I See London. As a Noah stan, this episode doesn't hurt me, and it never did. But as a *writer*? Oof. Some of the worst slop I've seen.

I See London is completely built for the Gwuncan moment, and it's so fucking obvious. Gwen and Courtney building a friendship? It's just to make the betrayal all the harder. Duncan somehow being in London, despite being dropped off in Egypt? Yeah, just for Gwuncan. Gwen helping KIDNAP him? Which is OOC for several reasons.... Just for Gwuncan. Even Noah's elimination could be tied to Gwuncan if you tried hard enough.

Gwuncan, as a writing moment, was the root of all evil. Lmao.

But Gwuncan as a ship? I'm going to be honest, I don't think the love triangle was to set up Gwuncan. Which doesn't make sense, but here me out. Sure Gwuncan happens as a result, but the focus is less on their relationship and more about how it affects Courtney. When it comes time to eliminate either Courtney and Gwen, they make up a fake reason to have a tie. (Cody would have voted for Courtney if he didn't have some random injury.) And then Gwen couldn't just lose, but had to have a random allergy? Like the elimination is so stupid, I can't.

But wow, one half of the ship is now gone. Their relationship lasted FOUR episodes! Four! Two long-standing fan beloved ships that spanned entire seasons, are now destroyed for ... four episodes? Why?

And then they make an episode where DUNCNEY get paired together in a WEDDING THEMED CHALLENGE? Bruh. Like I'm actually sad for Gwuncan, as a ship they were disrespected so bad. The show constantly put focus on Duncney, it's so clear that the writers wanted to talk about Duncney, and that Gwuncan was just a cool conflict they thought of.

It's honestly sad, and my deepest condolences for Gwuncan fans, and any Gwuncan fan who still ships Gwuncan and believes in them - y'all the strongest soldiers.

If TD had truly wanted to make Gwuncan a thing, yeah breaking up Gwent and Duncney was necessary (and perhaps they should have ended Duncney earlier and not just Then), but they should have written Gwuncan as two people fleeing terrible relationships. Let them have the audience's sympathy. And then have Courtney be eliminated instead, and show us how good Gwuncan could really be.

The fact that in All Stars they immediately ditched the Gwuncan idea is either proof they never wanted that ship, or that the audience hated the ship so bad that getting rid of it felt like the only option. Cowards. Should have just taken it as a challenge to prove how good it truly was. That's what I would have done. (That's why i write noco)

Tl;dr. Gwuncan's cheating moment was Cool Drama, Fresh wanted to cash in on that, played the long game and destroyed their savings in the process. But they did get what they wanted! But a cool moment is just that, a moment. And Fresh doesn't even like Gwuncan.

[the-so-called-finchel]

You don’t have to answer this if you don’t want to but which Glee pairings do you dislike the most and why?

I'm going to only focus on pairings that happened on the show and actually had a relationship. I hate Quinn/tana, but that wasn't an actual relationship so no point in addressing it (same with other ships of this kind like Finn/tana, Puck/berry, Puck/tana, Sam/tina). Also I hate basically most of the fanon ships, especially those involving Rachel being paired with her bullies (or anyone who isn't Finn tbh). But those aren't real so no need to address them either.

F/uinn: I hate this pairing because Quinn is abusive af and there's literally nothing good about this relationship. I don't even know where to begin to say why I hate F/uinn. It's just abusive relationship 101. If anyone likes this after watching the show (or even just after s1), I'm very worried about them and their relationships.

St/Berry: I hate all ships that are of the type victim is dating their bully. This is the epitome of that and I'm honestly disgusted that this was the endgame ship for Rachel. Jesse is just an asshole and he never changed. He always put Rachel down from their first meeting. Even in the finale, he (I think it was him) has to bring up the fact that he already had a Tony when Rachel won her. He's just a disgusting character and I hate that Rachel ended up with him. Like if I could delete only one character from Glee, it would be him.

T/artie: Artie never treated Tina with any respect. She was mainly a trophy for him. He liked that she was his only friend and figured that she actually had feelings for him. And idk maybe she did. But Artie was a shitty boyfriend all through season 1 and I'm actually happy that Tina cheats on him with Mike. Also they basically got together because they were like "if we're both single by whatever age let's get hitched." That's not development. It's just sad. But this one and St/Berry are just wish fulfillment ships for the actors playing the characters involved. It's really dumb imo.

K/laine: This is a toxic and abusive ship but somehow people don't see it, even the show is very in your face about it. K and B are constantly in competition (maybe not in s2, but starting in s3 for sure) with each other and they just both seem uncomfortable around each other. B liked it when K was a fan of his in S2, but after that he was just completely not attracted to him at all. K just seems to hate B in later seasons and doesn't care about his problems at all. These two just don't care about each other at all, not even a little close to the way other healthy couples on the show cared about each other. B seemed way more interested in other guys too than in K. I think the main thing about why K/laine doesn't work for me is because B and K just want a boyfriend, but they don't want to be a boyfriend. And this is basically common in all the other ships I've listed above (but in those cases only half of the ship is like that, the other actually wants to be gf/bf and not just have one). Quinn wants Finn as her boyfriend, but she doesn't want to be his girlfriend. Jesse wants Rach as his girlfriend, but doesn't want to be her boyfriend. Artie wants Tina as his girlfriend, but he doesn't want to be her boyfriend.

B/arole: They're only together because Kurt wanted them to date so he can get in Finn's pants and that's just crazy. But aside from their shady beginnings, once Carole married Burt, she became Kurt's mom only, and stopped caring about Finn (until he died and then she remembered Finn was her son) and she stopped being a mom to him. She was all about Burt and Kurt. Also Burt never acted like a dad to Finn. He treated him badly and didn't care about what happens to Finn. He just wanted Finn to work for him in the shop while Kurt would go off to become successful. He was just a stereotypical asshole stepdad. Carole could have done better.

Bro/chel: I almost forgot about this. This was a really weird ship. He was way out of Rachel's comfort zone and he was super creepy and would always talk Rachel down and lie to her. He's basically Jesse Lite. I hate that they wasted all of S4 on this trainwreck and wasted Cory's time.

[archangelween]

>The Metatron is trying to end the world that Aziraphale did everything he could to save in S1.

Nah, I don't think 2C (second coming) is Metatron's goal. I think that's why what I said makes no sense. My Metatron, my belief of what's going on with him--he does not give three shits about the second coming. All he wants is to free his family. A by the book 2C where heaven wins means his family are damned and tortured for eternity, which is bad for Metatron. That is not what he wants.

As far as I'm aware, putting events into motion to start the 2C, getting it going, is how Metatron frees his family, following biblical tradition. So starting it is good, but it going full steam ahead is bad. Just like what god said in s1: working to bring about the apocalypse is all well and good, but it's another thing entirely for it to actually happen. I think the same thing is going on with Metatron and 2C: he's working to bring it about, but he does not want it to actually be successful. Just like Aziracrow in s1: they both went ahead and followed orders "cheerfully" to bring about the apocalypse, but they certainly did not want it to actually happen.

This is why he has his own agenda, this is why he's on his own side, this is why he does not want a by-the-book perfectionist like Michael in charge as archangel. He wants to be able to fuck up heaven's Plan as he likes. What is Written must not be.

Putting Aziraphale in charge, the guy who has a track record of fucking up What Is Written....that's a great way to make sure What Is Written won't Be. Az could even be Metatron's ally, if Metatron knew the truth about him. Is that the angle the show will go? I don't see Metatron trusting Az like that, but I do think we'll see the same implied "you could have just told me and avoided all this bullshit" in s3 the same way we saw it retrospectively with s2.

>but with the clear intent of making Aziraphale believe he wasn't meant to hear it.

I just don't think he's muttering at all. He says the "second coming" at the same volume as he says the rest of his lines. The only difference is that he's saying that last bit as he's walking away instead of while facing Az, and in a different tone. That isn't muttering, muttering implies a lower volume, under your breath, literally trying not to be heard. He was not doing that at all. He absolutely meant Az to hear him say everything he said.

Saying it while walking away, to me, implies "quit trying to stall and get a move on". It doesn't mean "you aren't supposed to hear", which requires a huge volume drop.

>Remember how the camera holds on Aziraphale's horrified reaction?

He's not horrified because he heard something he should not have. He is horrified because of what Metatron just said to him. He knows what the second coming is, what that means: the big one. I think it also means here that Metatron may think Az does not yet know about 2C, and so Az is putting on the appropriate "surprised" face at what should be news. But I think Aziracrow knew it was on deck.

The only point to quibble on here is whether Metatron meant Crowley to also hear, because the way this is shot and framed, I think we are supposed to think that Crowley is able to listen in. We see both Az and Metatron walking away, talking, and as we're looking from over Crowley's shoulder aka his POV, we hear them talking. I do think Crowley heard everything they said, including the bit about the second coming. Metatron may have turned away to say his 2C line, perhaps because he knew Crowley was listening in, and he didn't want Crowley hearing that. But he meant for Az to hear, that's clear.

I also think both Az/Crowley knew this whole season that the 2C was on deck and in motion, if not that Jesus himself was already on earth. We don't know what Crowley knows about the antichrist and apocalypse events; maybe there's stuff that says both happen at the same time, he's certainly expecting it by the end of s1, given his lines about "the big one". I think his reluctance to get more involved, be more open, with Az may partially be due to that: he knows it's coming, he has no plan, and he knows he's going to lose Az, so thus he doesn't want to get more involved because it'll hurt more to lose him. Az thinks, on the other hand, why not use the time we have.

>I don't think we can rely upon Biblical stories verbatim in Good Omens. Imagine if you did that with Bildad the Shuite and Job… you'd get a very different story than the one Good Omens told in S2.

True, but the shape/feel of Job's traditional story is still there. It's just got a little twist to it. It's still generally the same thing: Bildad saves Job from falling to doubt, Bildad is a shoemaker, he's their friend, etc. Enoch's story, I think, will be the same way, because what's been invoked in GO is strict interpretation of the bible, ie fundamentalism. The particulars of how Enoch came to be an angel, why god chose him, what sins his family committed, etc--those are all up for grabs, but that's not the same as rewriting "Enoch was a human chosen by god whose family was punished for sinning". That's gist vs detail, and Gaiman is commenting on trad beliefs--to do that he has to put the actual beliefs in the show. Satire doesn't make sense if it's not the same shape. I'm not saying literally everything in the bible will be in GO, I'm saying broad strokes will be there, just as creationism was, just as Sodom was, Eden, etc. We're talking a difference of the summary vs the script matching. No one can predict what the script will be word for word, but Enoch is one of the big stories, just like Job and Eden are. The shapes match, they're just a little fuzzy on the color. Think of it like foreshadowing: to foreshadow, you're not matching detail for detail, what you're matching is the shape, the feel; one character does a thing, later another does something similar but not exactly the same. Enoch will be similar to the trad bible story, but it need not be exactly the same for every detail. Broad strokes.

>Why wouldn't The Metatron just put Michael in charge of Heaven? Michael will do whatever he tells them to do.

Michael would not blindly follow Metatron, no. Michael is a by the book hardass, which won't work for Metatron's personal agenda to thwart god. Michael will not tolerate deviance like that, and will stick their nose into everything they want. Michael as Archangel means they will make everything their business, which isn't what Metatron wants. Metatron can't get away with murder if Michael is breathing up his ass (technically, he'd be getting away with forgiveness, but in heaven that's a sin equal to murder idiomatically).

>Why would he waste time and risk ruining his Armageddon 2.0 by putting in charge the one angel who ruined Round One? It makes zero sense to think that Aziraphale would ever be considered a viable candidate to be the Supreme Archangel of Heaven.

Metatron isn't trying to have a perfect Second Coming. Metatron wants someone who will fuck it up, but whom he can manipulate so that he can do his own fucking up too. I don't know if Metatron has his own "heaven will win, but I get what I want" plans, or if he's intending to have hell win, or if he's intending to stop things partway along. All I know is he's got his own plans, and a perfect 2C would ruin his day. Putting Az in charge lets Metatron screw things up because Az is a known fucker upper; Michael would not let him screw things up. Az is NOT a literal viable candidate in heaven's eyes, yes, we agree there. Az is a viable candidate in Metatron's eyes because Metatron has his own plans he wants to carry out, that he believes Michael or anyone else would sniff out and snuff out.

>I'm so confused as to how everyone knows The Metatron is the bad guy and doesn't trust him and yet believes the bullshit he sold Aziraphale. Make it make sense? Please? I'm desperate here lol.

I don't think "the bad guy" means the same thing to everyone here. Metatron has his own agenda, but that doesn't mean he's working for hell or that he's evil or whatever. It just means....he has his own side. Metatron is the bad guy because he's acting selfishly, IMO. He's got his own agenda, his own side, just like Crowley and Az had their own side against everyone else for most of history. Aziracrow aren't the only ones with their own side, as we saw with Gabriel and Beez. I would bet Metatron's been playing his own side since always.

I don't think anyone believes that he truly thought Az was a leader, or anything else he said. That was bullshit in the sense that Metatron was lying about it....but it's literally true in that when Az gets it in his head to do something, he does indeed carry it out easily. So Az IS a leader, when he wants to be, when he has to be. That isn't what Metatron believes though; Metatron thinks Az is either a total fuckup wrecking ball or completely pliable, both of which are useful to him.

How people view the Metatron gets confusing because people take various positions on whether he believed what he told Az, and on why he wants Az as archangel, and on what Metatron's own plans are/whether he aligns with heaven or hell or another side. He's painted as a villain by the music and other devices, but why that's the case is debated. Everyone's got their own mishmash of ideas: you think he's someone else, I think it's his traditional backstory. If any one of these pieces about him isn't clear then what someone's saying about him will be confusing, especially because I don't think there's really any correlation with any of the pieces: believing one thing about Metatron doesn't mean you have to believe another thing. It's all piecemeal.

>but, at the end, he had to mention The Second Coming so that Aziraphale was aware of what was really going on and what it would really mean to get into the elevator

Metatron would not have said anything about 2C left to his own devices. He only says anything because Az asks. Metatron was all ready to go up without saying anything about it. He's only trying to shut Az up and hurry him along. It could even be read as Metatron thinking that because all angels love the 2C, telling Az about it would get him to hurry up because all good angels fall over themselves to help with that.

I do think there's something to the "it has to be your choice" to Fall, to choose hell, to deceive god. Not because Metatron is the devil, he's not, but because turning your back on god IS a theme. Sin is also a theme, but I think the idea is that people can do that accidentally, just as Az accidentally walked into the nazis and almost got killed--it was only a REAL miracle that he didn't die, just as Elspeth was only saved by a real miracle, and just as Morag only died because hers was a bit late. How far can people be pushed before they will suffer any consequence? How dire a consequence must people suffer before nothing will stop them from cursing even an all powerful entity? And who won't ever do that, and what does it say about those people? What kind of person is it that calls that "strength of character", that calls that loyalty, who will let a tyrant do anything and call it just? Who will pervert the definition of justice and love and call that righteous? Is that despair, or is it despair that causes the cursing? Is it both? Does it matter? What kind of people say fuck it and embrace their accidental fall, what kind of people try to claw back up the rope? Does it actually say anything about either of them, or does it say more about their environment and the expectations they're held to? About the people around them and how they're treated?

Who do you think played "A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square" in the car at the end of S2: Crowley, Aziraphale, The Bentley?

Aziraphale. It's a reference to Crowley and the crows in the Job minisode, imo. Between them, I mean, not just a parallel scene (which it also is). It's a reply to "no nightingales." Shot in the same 'looking at each other across a space' way:

Probably should also throw in the fact that this is happening in the street in front of The Dirty Donkey with the elevator being just inside it and The Bentley involved so it also has ties to 1967 and that other time they had a conversation like this that we've seen... and the fact that Aziraphale gets into a literal elevator, which the British call...

...a lift. *dark laugh*

*breathes*

Let's all lean heavily on the word 'fabulous' in that sentence that makes this more S3 foreshadowing than anything else lol...

[moonlayl]

I'm curious, what did you wish was different about Daisy and Lincoln's storyline? (that you mentioned in the tag game)

Oh did you just mean you wished Lincoln hadn't died? lol sorry its really late here and I'm tired😂 😅 Same with Philinda? Or was it something else?

(NOTE: this will criticize s3, staticquake, lincoln, and philinda, Even though I do not hate the character or the ships at all, I just wish they were given more development and that some things were differen. I love the characters and the ships though andw think they deserved better)

Okay so no, it's not that I wished Lincoln didn't die, it's just that I wish their romantic relationship was handled differently, and I wish Lincoln's character was as well.

I really loved their friendship and dynamic in s2, and I won't lie, I found myself shipping them. In s2, it actually made sense for them to eventually develop a romantic relationship. and they were cute.

But then in s3, they really weren't given enough focus properly (even though they should've been because she's the main character and it should be the main romantic relationship...) And there's the whole 'shield is apparently right'. Jiaying and the inhumans were completely right in s2 and even Daisy 100% saw that. But Jiaying had to be the villain and shield had to be the good guy so they made her 'evil'. And the inhumans lost their safe place and their lives, and now even more inhumans started popping up, ones who didn't know how to control their powers.

At the end of season 2, we're told that shield is going to help inhumans and Daisy will be in charge of the project. This isn't long after Raina said that Daisy was the one who would lead the inhumans.

the aos writers completely messed this up, and it really affected any possible relationship between Daisy and Lincoln from being a truly good one that could last long-term.

Of all the inhumans that appeared in s3, they either joined shield as agents, or they died. Joey eventually stopped with shield but we never heard from him again.

LINCOLN, was made to join shield, even though he did not want to at all. I know there was crap going on with Lash and the ATCU and all, but the ending of s2 and the chemistry between staticquake made me think that while shield was help out with inhumans, a new type of afterlife would be built to try to help inhumans and reintegrate them into society. Daisy would be the leader of it and Lincoln by her side doing what he does best. He's a doctor who specializes in inhumans. He would help them like he helped Daisy. Something he was content with in s2. A new afterlife didn't even need to happen. We just needed Daisy and Lincoln on the same side, and to agree. Something that literally did not happen throughout their entire relationship.

Look it makes sense for him to want nothing to do with any of it after what happened in s2, but after he literally joins shield for protection, THAT's when he should've gotten more involved.

Instead we get "maybe an inhuman cure that would erase who they were is good." Daisy, after finally accepting who she is, and after having to deal with her whole team acting like working with the atcu that literally locks up inhumans like animals is a-okay, now has to deal with the fucking guy who was all 'it's not a curse, it's a gift' say THAT. And she's the one made to apologize for it.

Her saying (paraphrased) "just because you went to med school doesn't mean someone like me can't have an opinion about human rights" wasn't isn't even an insult at all, and yet his reply is to basically undermine her entire traumatic and unstable childhood. "At least I didn't hack my way through life" what the hell man. That was so uncalled for. And it had nothing to do with the situation. It was literally changing the subject in the worse way possible. Like, it makes it sound as if Daisy never actually accomplished anything? and again, he DIDN'T APOLOGIZE. SHE DID. SHE went to him and apologized. I'd chalk it up to 'a moment's anger' but that only works if you apologize for it.

and then the rest of their relationship is Lincoln not wanting to be with shield, which yeah I completely understand, but Daisy is a shield agent. No way would their rl last long term because they want complete different things from life. And clearly the writers were never going to actually make her lead inhumans. I guess being the leader of a four-person team for one episode is what they meant.

Then we get the hive incident, and Lincoln being obsessive, and when Daisy gets back, he doesn't even visit her, and then: Death.

yeah, they definitely needed better storylines in s3. I don't want to say it was 'rushed' because that's not the right term, but also there was so much antagonism between Daisy and Lincoln due to Lincoln wanting NOTHING to do with her in the beginning of the season and them suddenly kissing and then like a few days later the crap with Hive happening, and Lincoln hinting at taking a a break and eventually Lincoln dying without their relationship getting any kind of resolution or closure, that their relationship felt doomed from the start. I went from happily shipping them in s2 and wanting more of them, to waiting for them to break up and remain friends throughout s3. And then he died so that was that. I guess killing him off was easier for the writers because they could use the angst and Daisy leaving shield for s4.

I guess the bottom line is that 1) I wish Daisy had had a boyfriend who was more supportive, especially right after hive. Lincoln of s2 would've been, 100%, but the writers wanted him to be edgyier. Because I guess edgy and pained white men is what they think makes a better rl (look at fitzsimmons). 2) I wish we'd gotten Lincoln and Daisy actually actively looking out for and helping inhumans together. Didn't Lincoln like literally try to kill a few other inhumans? I know with Lash it was because he'd killed his friends, and with the other inhuman girl it was to find Daisy, but we varely even saw Lincoln interact with other inhumans except for Joey and Yoyo, and that episode ended with all of them fighting.

Like imagine if we'd gotten a few scenes of Lincoln helping out Joey or Yoyo (like he did with Skye, teaching them not to fear their gift) and then scenes of Daisy teaching them how to control. We literally got a scene in s5 of Simmons teaching a young girl how to use her gift, but nothing like that with Daisy? really? Joey just gets training off screen and he ends up barely interacting with Daisy outside of the first episode, and Elena already mastered her powers when she appears. And they screw up her friendship with Elena eventually. Like, inhumans loving and supporting each other in the show happened SO rarely, and it could've been something that Daisy and Lincoln created instead. a safe place for inhumans and them actively challenging the atcu.

With Philinda, Maybe during s2 it would've worked to start showing us that they were into each other, but then they brought in Andrew and Rosalind. Bringing in Andrew wouldn't have been a problem since they were divorced, but then we got the whole 'May wants to get back with him" which I was all on board for, but like with staticquake, that was destroyed in s3. Not only was May x Andrew doomed that season, but Coulson also found another love and both May and Coulson lost someone they loved and at that point, there was too much drama for me to get into it. It doesn't help that we don't get a clear idea of just when Coulson apparently decided he really likes May that way. In s4, he kisses her robot which I was not expecting that conversation at all. And it was gross. Then in s5, we get May loving Coulson back, but only after we find out Coulson is dying.

Philinda could've worked and been great if it had had more development in the earlier seasons, but aos writers decided making them get together right before Coulson would die was better instead. So yeah, I would've shipped them and cared more about their relationship if they had had different storylines. (don't even get me started on Sarge, and LMD coulson)

sorry this got so long and I got carried away with other points outside of the ships lol. I'm pretty sure everything I said was controversial. 😅😅😅

[lovecolibri]

I was hoping Michael's recent growth would improve the next Malex interaction but we got two so far and both of them had him initially look all hopeful only to almost immediately try to bait Alex with some stupid line like 'I just want you to be a guy who gives damn' to push him to open up which of course won't work but will make Alex snap back at him defensively and this dynamic might as well have been copy-pasted from their very first scenes from the pilot. No wonder so many of us are frustrated. Kudos to Vlamis and his puppy dog heart eyes but I really need the show to let Michael use his words that he can apparently do now with everyone else except Alex. 'What are we doing, Alex?' is something that would have made sense for him to say in S1 but after 57 rejections in S2 it's honestly just weird. Alex telling him he would care a lot if Michael got hurt doesn't mean he's looking for something from him or doing the push/pull thing again. Malex has long been on Michael's terms now so suddenly reverting back to early S1 is confusing to me. I really thought the beginning of S3 would have Michael be able to talk about wanting Alex in his life even if he's with Forrest and the friendship/awkward tension of being possibly something more after Forrest's gone would follow but it's 3x07 now and there's no sign of that anywhere. It's getting to the point where them starting a relationship this season if the pacing remains wouldn't feel satisfying to me. But also I really don't think Vlamburn's excitement (especially from Tyler who's the only one who really understands how important good queer rep is no shade to Vlamis) means we're putting things off until S4. And they can't honestly expect to placate fans through another hiatus.

Yes to all of this! Reverting back to that season 1 dynamic where Michael looks hopeful, Alex says something mean, and Michael looks crushed is absolutely NOT IT after all this time, and especially after what went down in season 2. Malex is never going to feel satisfying if that isn't addressed between them, and trying to make the audience forget about Michael's behavior last year by making Alex be the mean one crushing Michael's hopes this season is a cycle I'm not interested in repeating. Mostly because Alex has every right to not think Michael wants anything more from him! Last season was all on Michael's terms like you said, so only giving us Michael's POV and making it look like Michael is hopeful and just waiting on Alex to make a move and putting it all on Alex to start things is ridiculous. But we also aren't getting Alex's POV, so there's not way to know what he's thinking or wants or where he stands with Michael. Is he still pissed about last season (but only at Michael, never at m*ria because we just can't have that. She's his "dream girl", haven't you heard? It's such a shame he's gay, because if he could, he'd pick her too. 🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🙄🙄🙄🙄)

Overall the lack of Malex interacting or talking about each other has been MORE than disappointing. Last season was a lot of misery porn for them, but at least they were in the same frame and we were getting to see them having feelings! Michael's may have had to disappear every time he wasn't in the Malex "bubble" because c*rina was The Worst, but still we got something. And I'm a little confused about the direction they are taking in season 3 because one of the big issues mentioned in reviews about season 2 was the absolute waste of that Vlamburn chemistry! Does this show even know how lucky they are?! As far as he has stated publicly, Vlamis is a straight man so they very easily could have ended up with lackluster chemistry or awkward physical contact scenes. But instead we got this absolute magic with Malex and they can't even be bothered to let them be in scenes together? And we've gotten the Vlamis glassy eyes a few times about Alex, but none of Alex's sad face so we are left speculating about what's even going on in Alex's head.

It's just really frustrating after that looooong hiatus during which they had plenty of time to go over the reviews from season 2 and address what didn't work and while they are doing good in some areas, the fact that they decided to put Malex back at the starting line of season 1 so they didn't have to address the m*luca mess is ridiculous. And on that note, this is NOT the m*ria d*luca show. I am SO BEYOND uninterested in seeing her take on Jones. There's zero indication she could handle what Isobel, Max, and Michael couldn't, especially since her mind is supposed to be deteriorating when she uses her "powers". Oh right, I forgot. She's "not like other girls". 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[jade-marie]

What do you think would have made a better season 2 finale? ? . I'll start in a perfect world I would have love for Rio to live his best life with Marcus n Rhea and ghost Beth for good and then Beth goes to therapy because sis needs it , but to keep it semi realistic.. I mean if someone has to die it should have been Boomer not sry or maybe we get a similar storyline that we're getting in s4 where Beth tries to turn in Rio but he finds out and they have this big dramatic fight that doesn't end in attempted murder pls!!! Also hot take but in s3 I would have loved if the pregnancy wasn't a lie i would LIVE for the drama. Lastly, It would've been so interesting if the s4 bar scene was actually genuine on Beth's part and she wasn't setting him up. anyways thoughts???

Once again, sorry this took me like a decade to answer! Just been sooo busy lol.

If we’re going to the backend of S2 I didn’t actually hate Beth or dislike the concept of her being with Rio, in fact it was quite the opposite. I found her annoying, but I still had hop for her character and I still really liked the whole Brio dynamic. So if we were keeping everything the same and just changing the last part of 2.13, I would’ve done one of two things, depending on the type of s3 you want. (btw I’m making this shit up on the spot so bear with me lmao)

1. Boomer makes bail, potentially with a condition that he goes ahead with his planned testimony against Rio and now Beth too. Rio has both boomer and Beth kidnapped and taken to a warehouse NOT HIS LOFT, LIKE A DUMBASS, then tells Beth to clean up her mess. They argue etc, but she shoots Boomer and tells Rio they’re done - she handled her shit and wants nothing more to do with him. Angsty s3, pretty similar to what we got. Beth doesn’t leave crime, per se. She starts her cash business, Rio catches wind of it and wiggles his way in, claims he’s entitled to a licensing fee. Cat and mouse game starts again, maybe some hate sex sprinkled in there.

2. Instead of Rio doing the kidnapping, it’s Turner. He snatches both Beth and Rio, tries to force them to kill each other or maybe just Beth to kill Rio, idk. Anyway, he basically talks about how Rio used Beth and vice versa, how Rio made sure to put everything on her, trying to turn them against each other. But it doesn’t work and eventually, Beth shoots Turner - RIP doll face, you’ll be missed! It’s her first roll in the mud and bby is soooo proud of his girl. He obvs cleans it up and then we get some power couple Bonnie and Clyde shit for s3. Oh, a girl can dream 💔💔💔

Re the fake pregnancy - I hated the storyline. Although... I think, in the moment, it was probably the only thing that would’ve saved her. I genuinely think that is the one time where he would’ve been able to kill her because his anger was so fresh. I can’t think of anything else that would’ve actually stopped him from killing her. I don’t know how I feel about a real pregnancy either, especially if it actually resulted in a child between them, because I think Beth has enough kids to dislike 🤣

Potentially if she was pregnant and miscarried in the time he was gone... maybe… It just feels like a copout, honestly. Like it’s a way to temper his rage, to make him soften towards her before she deserves it. 

With the bar conversation, if they would’ve had a confrontation about the shooting, fought it out and moved past it, so that her deal with the Secret Service was a new issue - I wouldn’t have hated it. It’s the fact that she’s setting him up on top of having a hitman and on top of already having tried to kill him. It’s the way these things are just piling up and going unaddressed. So the dynamic no longer has that compelling push and pull, it’s just push push push. But if we’re going with the current storyline, everything else is still in play, nothing has been dealt with; I would’ve liked for that to be a turning point. For that to have been a really genuine, raw, honest, moment. Something that we haven’t seen from her before. No ulterior motive. 

And yes, they need to fight. It should’ve already happened, which is really frustrating for me. At this point I’m ready for Mick to lock them in a room like, “you guys can fight, fuck, or kill each other, I don’t care anymore. I’m done with your bullshit”🤣🤣🤣