#and then we play sburb/sgrub

[g0ldenstar]

forgot i finished my trollsona omg ! here she is shes a lil nerd <3

[caligvlasaqvarivm]

CLASSES - a comprehensive guide

The first thing that needs to be said is that there is no such thing as a "bad" class. All of them have the potential to be a great detriment OR great boon to the rest of the team, depending on how far along the journey of self-actualization a party member is. Some may have steeper challenges, but this corresponds with greater rewards.

The second thing that needs to be said is that all players are part of a team, and all personal journeys and playstyles are interlinked. No class is truly "solo." Even the smallest viable session is still two people, and even the most suitable classes for solo play are stronger when they're in a party.

The last thing that needs to be said is that the game wants you to succeed. The game, inherently, wants every player to reach godhood, wants every player to self-actualize, wants every player to win. It respects free will and free choice, so it will allow for failures (and, indeed, doomed timelines are vital to the alpha one existing), but Skaia is ultimately optimistic, and tries at every turn to ensure that a golden ending is possible.

Because, after all, SBURB/SGRUB - and Homestuck itself - are about children growing up, maturing, and learning compassion for each other. About fixing their flaws and rejecting the negative aspects of the society they came from. It's about how it is our duty, our responsibility, to become kind, mature people who care about one another, because we will one day be responsible for creating a new society.

And so, without further ado:

ACTIVE (-) Classes and PASSIVE (+) Classes are described with the dichotomy of "powers working for the self" vs. "powers working for others," but I believe this to be an oversimplification of what the active and passive split is. Both active AND passive classes benefit from being in a party; however, an active class will gain fewer party benefits in exchange for being more suited for solo play, while a passive class will be less suited for solo play, but confer much greater benefits to party play.

This is reflected in their personal quests: while active classes and passive classes will both require intervention, empathy, and guidance from their teammates, the struggle of an active class is usually one of grappling with internal flaws, and the struggle of a passive class is one of grappling with interpersonal or societal relations. In other words, the personal quest of an active player will usually involve getting therapized, while the personal quest of a passive player will usually involve addressing a systemic societal issue. Often, both will be required, but whether a class is active or passive will indicate an area of focus.

KNIGHT - / MAID +

PARTY MANAGEMENT

one who wields [aspect] or leads with [aspect] / one who distributes [aspect] or manages with [aspect]

KNIGHTS (-) are a very flexible and versatile class; "wielding" their aspect does not necessarily mean they are skilled at DPS. It actually indicates the way a knight interacts with their aspect, a very straightforward relationship of tradesperson and tool, or soldier and weapon. Similarly, while a knight does not always take up the "leader" position in the party, they will be the "spearhead," a point behind which the other players rally, a beating heart keeping the party together.

This straightforward relationship between a knight and their aspect leads to knights finding little difficulty mastering their aspect once they've begun. Many knights are, in fact, instinctively drawn toward utilizing their aspect, in the same way that they are naturally drawn toward roles of importance or heroism.

Knights often struggle with their perceived place in society, as well as with their innate sense of self and self-worth, seeing themselves as outcasts, resenting the responsibility placed on their shoulders, and fearing vulnerability. Unaddressed, these issues will lead to knights who actively become a detriment to party success. For example, they can dismiss valid concerns, shirk their duties, and in the worst case scenario, actively lead the party down the wrong path, invoking their natural ability to lead for ill.

Therefore, a knight's journey is one of accepting themselves and accepting their duty to better the world. It is about coming to terms with their own insecurities and learning to rely on others. It is about learning to take responsibility, and accepting the banner of a just and glorious cause.

A fully realized knight will be the center of every charge, the guiding star behind which the other players rally. They can provide clarity and guidance to those still on their journeys, and peace and comfort to those who are struggling or in pain. Where the knight goes, the party will follow, as a unified and united front.

MAIDS (+), meanwhile, tend to be on the backlines. If the knight is the forward march, then the maid is the supply line, an incredibly vital role whose absence is disastrous, even if its presence is nearly invisible. Maids have a nearly infinite well of their aspect to distribute, and are uniquely talented at managerial duties - keeping players on task, patching up the holes in a plan, sourcing and supplying resources, so on and so forth.

This is not to say that maids are relegated to support roles - a maid is usually capable of holding their own in combat just fine, especially if they've been endowed with a more combat-suited aspect. Both knights and maids are extremely versatile. That being said, maids truly shine when they're able to take on these backline roles, and many maids are more noticeable by the devastating effects of their absence rather than the invisible touch of their presence.

However, they are the class that most often starts in subservient conditions - low status, strict duties enforced upon them, so on - and their personal journey is a constant struggle against the control of others. Maids whose parties fail to grapple with and undo these shackling forces will find their maids succumbing to the influence or control of malicious entities; in the worst-case scenario, a maid can become an actively hostile enemy or saboteur, invisibly pulling the party's strings and setting them up for failure.

Therefore, a maid's journey is about rejecting societal oppression and throwing off the chains that bind them. A successful maid rises to become the head of the household - nothing occurs within the game that does not first pass the maid's inspection, and their touch ensures that there is a place for everything, and everything is in its place.

A free maid, who belongs to themselves, incomparably increases a party's efficiency. Every communication line is clear, every distribution route is clean, every mystery is solvable, and every plan is airtight. A maid guarantees that nothing can ever go too wrong.

PAGE - / HEIR +

TEAM BONDING

one who must earn [aspect] or inherits the mantle of [aspect] / one who is beloved by [aspect] or awakens to [aspect]

PAGES (-) start the game with the fewest benefits from their aspects, but the greatest potential for growth. Theirs is a constant battle with the self; they are often cowardly and naive. They possess sensitive souls, and while it is incredibly easy to hurt a page, it's much more difficult to build them up. Because of the difficulty of raising this class, it's practically defined by its journey - a constant struggle against the self - rather than its destination, and the powers the class confers.

Pages, like heirs, are classes of inheritance. A page is promoted by trials and tribulations and comes to inherit a greater power than they begin with; in the same way, the class will one day come to embody its aspect, although the road will always be turbulent and long. Moreover, it is a journey without end; pages, being as sensitive as they are, are the most prone to backwards progress, even after reaching their peak.

They prone to staying weak throughout the entire game, never self-actualizing past being the party joke. They attract the obsession and ridicule of stronger-willed players, and their mistreatment can become extremely divisive. A page can easily become a party's albatross, the epicenter of massive interpersonal conflicts, which can tank an entire session.

Therefore, a page's journey is one of the most difficult of all - that of teaching others how to care about other people. Pages rely on great patience, kindness, and understanding. Their sensitive souls must be carefully nurtured and propagated with love and attention. In the same way that a page can tear a team apart, they can bring a team together, all in the name of compassion and empathy. A fully-realized page is the symbol of a party that has linked hands with one another.

Self-actualized pages, as a result of the difficulty inherent to the class, are incredibly powerful and versatile when fully realized. Inheriting the mantle of their aspect, they become pure embodiments of their aspect, capable of achieving impossible feats of raw, unfiltered power, and inspiring all those who gaze upon them.

HEIRS (+) begin the game very strong, but have a difficult time becoming stronger. This is because their usage of their aspect is very instinctual to them, even at times being entirely beyond their control, hence, "beloved by" in the class description. However, because of how naturally their aspect comes to them, it makes taking further command of their powers difficult.

An heir "awakens to" their aspect because their natural, intuitive control often renders them too comfortable to grasp the greater implications of their class. As an inheritance class, heirs can come to embody their aspect, transforming entirely into it. Their challenge lies in breaking out of their comfortable shell and learning how to utilize their powers in more active, intentional ways.

This is reflected in their personal quests. They are often set to inherit great privilege or wealth prior to entering the game, and are thus naive to the realities of the suffering and pain of others. Without a supportive party willing to challenge their views, heirs can perpetuate that pain by submitting to their place in the world, becoming a divisive force within the party, or, in the worst case, losing themselves to their inheritance, and submitting so wholly to their aspect that they become lost to the rest of the team.

Thus, an heir's journey is to question the stratification of the society they belong to, so that they can recognize and address its flaws. They must learn to interrogate their inheritance, separate it from themselves, and reconcile with it. Theirs is an arc of examination and understanding, descending from their position of privilege and peace to learn about the suffering of others, and deciding that they wish to do something about it.

With full command over their aspect, and a clear vision for how it ought to be distributed, the party gains a new and powerful ally - the aspect itself, which will come to embrace the entire party as family. A fully-realized heir connects the privileged and underprivileged, spreading their inheritance to all.

MAGE - / SEER +

GUIDANCE

one who invokes [aspect] or is drawn to [aspect] / one who comprehends [aspect] or is guided by [aspect]

MAGES (-) are a class of prophets, although saying they "see the future" is misleading. Rather, mages "invoke" the future, collapsing causality to align to their desires. Most mages remain unaware that they are doing so until well into their journey. While all players weigh on the scale of causality, affecting both past and future events, and which sequence of events is the "alpha" sequence, mages have the most direct effect.

Because of this ability to invoke future events, mages possess powerful buffing/debuffing abilities. Furthermore, as one of the two knowledge classes, a mage usually has a very deep understanding of their aspect, and an intuitive knowledge of how the flow of time and causality function. They are "drawn to" their aspects in this way, instinctively searching out points where their influence can affect the flow of events.

However, with great power comes great cost; the mage class is usually assigned to those who are stricken by tragedies and prone to negativity and self-loathing. Mages often begin the game as a detriment to the party, "prophesying" future events that leave the party - including themselves - at a disadvantage. In the worst case scenario, a mage can invoke certain doom for their party or themselves.

Therefore, it is vital that a mage address their tragedies and be given a chance to heal and grow. The ones most struck by tragedy, theirs is a journey of reclaiming lost joy and rediscovering lost hope. However, the transformation is powerful once completed - as the one who suffers tragedy and loss most intimately, a mage can also come to be one of the most empathetic and compassionate members of the team.

If a mage is uplifted, and capable of believing in a kinder and gentler world, then their ability to invoke the future - and the aspects of their aspect that they are drawn to - become kinder, as well. Pain and suffering still have their place, but the ending will be a happy one. With a fully empowered mage, the future will always be better than what came before.

SEERS (+) see multiple branching paths. A mage determines where a road will be built, but a seer tells you where a road CAN be built. They are also often gifted with knowledge of the game and its mechanics, and are especially uniquely gifted with understanding of their own abilities. In this way, they "comprehend" their aspect.

Seers themselves are not particularly gifted in combat through their classpect alone; however, in exchange, they often play a vital role in steering the party. They are the game's built-in guides, with an intuitive knowledge of the game's victory conditions, as well as an instinctive desire to lead others along their paths. Seers are, therefore, one of the most important classes in the game, when one is present.

However, the ability to see is a burden as well as a gift. Seers find themselves paralyzed by choice, and often doubt their own abilities to choose "correctly." They are prone to becoming mired in what-ifs, and struggle with political or ethical debates with no clear answers. In the worst-case scenario, a seer may feel so cursed by their sight that they self-destruct, and deliberately choose poor or incomprehensible answers, in an attempt to free themselves of their sight.

Thus, a seer's quest is, ironically, to see the world beyond the purview of their aspect. They must come to have a more comprehensive understanding of the world they live in, and what purpose they are trying to achieve, so that they can feel confident in the choices they make. A seer is often blind - their journey, therefore, is that of regaining their vision, by connecting with the world outside their inner sight.

A seer with a clear vision for the future will always know exactly which path to choose. A party with such a seer in it will never be stuck and never be lost. If there exists a path to self-actualization, the seer will know it. And if there exists a path to a breathless and perfect victory, a fully-realized seer will light the way.

THIEF - / ROGUE +

UTILITY

one who steals [aspect] from others or steals with [aspect] / one who steals [aspect] for others or steals from [aspect]

THIEVES (-) are a very difficult class to play. They start out with almost no passive abilities regarding their aspect, and their ability to actively use their aspect is contingent on their ability to first "steal" it from someone else. Thus, they are always playing a game of resource management, and there is always a chance for them to be left helpless after a heist gone wrong.

However, their gimmicky nature allows them to overtake other classes even in that class's specialty, if they can set up the exact right circumstances and manage their resources well. This makes them incredibly versatile, especially when a thief is working together with a party, and thus able to count their party among their potential resources. It takes great cunning to play the thief class well.

However, this also makes the thief a potentially dangerous element to the rest of the party. Thieves are often egotistical and self-serving, willing to see enemies and allies alike as resources and tools. Unaddressed, their reckless, selfish natures will earn their teammates' distrust and enmity. In the worst case scenario, a thief running rampant can severely harm the party, or earn so much ire that the party turns against them.

Thus, their journey is that of realizing that their selfishness and ego are flaws - the classic parable of "money doesn't bring happiness." Beneath their uncaring surface lurks genuine emotional distress; a thief must come to realize that their greed and selfishness is an active detriment not only to the people around them, but their own selves. Only then can they heal from their injured souls.

A thief that has undertaken this journey is one who has realized that they are stronger when they are working with others. Their versatility, creativity, and cunning are incredible assets once harnessed toward the will of the party. No situation will ever be inescapable, no safe uncrackable, and no problem unsolvable - not if the thief has anything to say about it.

ROGUES (+) are similarly difficult to play. Unlike the thieves, rogues do see passive benefits from their aspects. However, their active abilities are much less straightforward, and rogues often struggle with understanding them. A rogue's role is to redistribute wealth - thus, "stealing for the sake of others."

A rogue, being able to steal directly from their aspect, truly shines when given enough time to prepare. If a thief must fly by the seat of their pants, then a rogue is a heist planner - they have an infinite box of tools to pull from, if only they know what tools they'll need for the job. This makes them incomparably versatile, even if not necessarily in the heat of combat.

Rogues take on the mantle of challenging the status quo. They usually begin the game already in opposition to their society, seeking out better alternatives and considering unorthodox options. However, not every party is ready for a rogue's radical ideology, and not every rogue has considered the full consequences of their belief in change; in the worst case scenario, the rogue can become outcasted and disregarded, or cause an upheaval that proves disastrous, rioting for the sake of rioting.

It often requires the help of others for a rogue to understand how to use their powers. In the same way, it requires the party's honest communication and exchange of ideas to help a rogue grasp exactly what form their rebellion ought to take. A rogue knows instinctively that something must change; their journey is learning how they ought to go about it.

Once they do, a rogue - given enough time to prepare and plan - is the ultimate utility player, having the right tool for every possible situation. Their abilities are only magnified in a party setting, as their teammates become variables that unlock new possibilities. A party with a fully-prepped rogue always has a perfect plan, a way to solve any problem that they might face.

WITCH - / SYLPH +

AREA CONTROL

one who manipulates [aspect] or achieves dominion through [aspect] / one who nurtures [aspect] or creates a land of [aspect]

WITCHES (-) carry with them the winds of change. A witch manipulates, changing properties of their aspect and their aspect's effect on others, creating a "territory" over which they rule. They see few passive benefits of their aspects, in exchange for their active abilities being so all-encompassing and overwhelming.

Once their territory has been established, witches make the rules. Their changes can be permanent, temporary, massive, and miniscule. However, a witch "achieves dominion" with their aspect - this means that they must first struggle to create this domain, and it's difficult for their abilities to manifest until they do, often leaving younger witches weak and vulnerable.

Witches have strong feelings for how things should and should not be, but not necessarily grounded ideas for how to implement them, often due to some "outsider" status in society. Unfocused witches become dangerous for the party, as they are easily manipulated; in the worst-case scenario, they can fall in with malicious forces, who can sway a witch's turbulent heart and utilize them as a force for negative change, rather than good.

Thus, a witch's journey is that of interrogating right and wrong. A witch must struggle with morality and ethics, and come to clarify their own beliefs; only then can they know what sort of domain they wish to establish, and what sort of rules they wish to enforce. Once they know their own hearts, they can shake off the insidious whispers of malicious external influence.

As if a reward for their struggles for autonomy and independence, the witch is the one whose will is most imposed on the world that comes after them. Just as an evil witch putrefies the world around them, a fully-realized witch who has decided to use their influence for good can create a near-utopia.

SYLPHS (+) call to mind the images of fey folk who sprout plants where they walk. That is how a sylph "creates a land" of their aspect - merely by existing, the world around them becomes suffused by it. A sylph's mere presence nurtures, grows, and heals their aspect; unlike witches, who manipulate what is already there, sylphs can create something from nothing.

The establishment of their domain comes naturally to them. Those caught within it are on the receiving end of their aspect, whether they want to be or not. In exchange for such powerful passive abilities, a sylph's active abilities are weaker, and usually unsuited for solo combat, generally being of healing, buffing, or debuffing nature.

A sylph is prone to selfishness - to luxuriating within their own land, their own aspect, their own mind. They often have difficulty connecting with others and understanding why their own personal world may not be to the liking of the world outside of themselves. Often, they are aloof. An unrealized sylph can cause great harm to the world around them, their domain choking out and smothering their party; in the worst case, they can mire their party within it, leaving their party unable to proceed.

Thus, it often requires the outside world to breach their safe haven in order for a sylph to grow. They must be made uncomfortable, and then made to accept that uncomfortable things are also important - maybe even more important than comfort, at times. Growth often requires pruning; a sylph's journey is to come to understand that good intentions may lead to harm, and, vice versa, that harm can often lead to true growth.

Sylphs can provide the greatest compassion and emotional comfort within a party, encouraging - if not enabling - their teammates' growth in their personal journeys. Once a sylph understands when it is appropriate to encourage, and when it is appropriate to pull back, there is no refuge safer for the party than the sylph's domain.

PRINCE - / BARD +

OBSTACLE REMOVAL

one who destroys [aspect] or destroys with [aspect] / one who allows the destruction of [aspect] or allows destruction through [aspect]

PRINCES (-) possess the ability to annihilate, a destructive class not limited to physical or tangible objects. Princes also enjoy auxiliary benefits as befits their royal titles - many princes start the game with great talents, great status and wealth, or both. They are also endowed with royal presence; their very existence provokes strong emotions from those around them, for good or for ill.

One of the more straightforward classes in the game, a prince's ability to destroy most commonly manifests as DPS. However, their abilities encompass a greater scope than mere damage - the prince's ability to annihilate figurative or metaphysical concepts makes them capable of directly removing any obstacles that stand in their way. As if hungry to consume their aspect, they are naturally drawn towards where it congregates.

However, with great power comes great responsibility: princes are often the most psychologically maligned within the party, and their destructive talents can very easily become self-destructive instead. Usually the result of societal pressure, trauma, and suffering, a prince is prone to embodying the lack of their aspect, rather than its presence. In the worst-case scenario, a prince spreads this misfortune to the rest of their party, destroying the presence of their aspect from their session altogether, often taking themselves along with it.

A prince must be shown compassion. Though they are often viscerally unpleasant to engage with, turning a blind eye to foolishness, loneliness, and suffering - which a prince embodies - is one of the worst things that a party can do. Though the effort at times seems undeserved, to heal a prince requires a staunch belief that there is good to be gained if we are kind to each other. This kindness will be returned; once you are counted among a prince's "people," they will do anything to keep harm from befalling you.

A prince, once shown this grace, is incomparably powerful. To destroy their aspect or with their aspect is the ability to destroy nearly anything, including concepts such as despair, death, and doom. As if proclaiming a royal decree, a fully-realized prince can banish misfortune and ill tidings altogether, leaving nothing standing in the party's way.

BARDS (+) are a wildcard of a class, often responsible for a party's improbable victory, abject defeat, or both. Their abilities are not very well-understood, even by the bard themselves, and they often utilize both passive and active abilities intuitively, unaware that they are doing so. The morale of the party is deeply tied to the bard's own, and it's unclear which side is cause and which is effect.

The ability to allow the destruction of their aspect, or invite it through their aspect, is actually something of a debuff rather than DPS - the bard's ability is to break unbreakable shields, tear down unclimbable walls, and nullify unstoppable forces. Rather than dealing damage themselves, they allow for damage to be dealt that would otherwise have no effect - in other words, by nature, they make the impossible possible. This is the true source of their ability to evoke "miraculous" situations.

Bards are inextricably tied to society - after all, their tales only hold as much value as their relevance to the audience. This means those with the bard class are invariably molded by the worst aspects of the society they come from. They serve as living embodiments of the most unpleasant aspects of society, and living reminders that leaving these elements to fester only means they will multiply in severity. If these beliefs are allowed to go unexamined, bards will always steer a party towards ruin.

Therefore, a party must engage with the bard earnestly, compassionately, and openly, and help them see the errors of the past. A bard must be led, with gentle guidance and genuine openness, to discard their harmful beliefs, and sing a new, more beautiful tune.

A bard that has been brought back into the fold is a worker of miracles. When every other possible option has been exhausted - the knight and maid in disarray, the page and heir unable to keep the party together, the mage and seer blinded, the thief and rogue out of action, the witch and sylph with their territory lost, the prince no longer able to function - this is where a bard will step in, transmuting abject defeat into a perfect and breathless victory.

[hydro-city-zone]

ALTERFALL: 2024 Recap.

As of last post, ALTERFALL's entire cast of Beta Kids and Beta Trolls have been revealed! Before moving on to any further details such as auxiliary characters (Guardians, Exiles, etc.), Alpha session characters or in-depth looks into the Beta sessions, let's recap - for those who joined partway, or are only joining now!

ALTERFALL is a Homestuck Kidswap/Bloodswap AU in which, due to a single in-universe change, many characters' upbringings are altered due to the landing locations of their meteors being switched. The in-universe event that changes the course of the story and the nature vs nurture approach to changing the characters in their new roles was inspired largely by Inverted Fate, which we definitely recommend to all UNDERTALE fans! Below the cut are some images detailing each character, and at the end a links will be provided to read more about them!

BETA KIDS

A group of four human teenagers who communicate online after meeting each other in a series of odd encounters. Together, they intend to play SBURB: a mysterious video game entrenched in conspiracies, hoping to dispel the wild rumors breeding in the depths of message boards, or at least to have some fun. Unbeknownst to them, the game truly is the catalyst for Earth's apocalypse, with the four of them being thrust into another world and given the task of creating a new universe.

BETA TROLLS

Twelve aliens and previous players of SBURB - or as it is known on their planet - SGRUB. Their gruesome home planet of Alternia has instilled within them all manner of quirks, prejudices and generally colorful personalities (for better or worse), but somehow, against all odds, they managed to succeed in their game and create the universe that birthed humanity. Despite this, these twelve have been trapped in their game session, unable to claim their prize of a new home and festering in their captivity. Connections have been established to the game session of the humans, however, and thus they have gained the ability to send messages to them... At any point in the timeline they so please.

POST LINKS:

Humans: John Jade Dave Rose God Tiers

Trolls: Patrons Aradia Gamzee Equius Tavros Eridan Feferi Sollux Nepeta

Misc: Correction Sprite Art Human Modus Descriptions

Chrono Tag

See you soon.

[thewertsearch]

AG: This denizen does not look asleep to me. […] EB: he was wide awake when i found him. i practically crapped my pants!

When you think about it, why would he be asleep?

This Typheus has no reason to wait for John’s challenge, because he’s fully aware that this John will never challenge him. Therefore, he decided to skip the theatrics, and cut to the chase.

EB: what was your denizen like? AG: Her name was Cetus. AG: She was this awful sea monster. Her lair was deep underground amidst a 8unch of shipwrecks. She was quite vicious and territorial. I knew I had to kill her quickly to release the hoard, 8efore she had the chance to do anything tricky. […] EB: did she talk to you? AG: Oh, of course. She was 8a88ling in riddles through most of the fight. I wasn't paying much attention though. I mean, what creature DOESN'T speak in 8oring riddles in this game? EB: so, is that what you all did? EB: kill your denizens as fast as possible, without listening to them? AG: Yeah, pretty much. We were all pretty good players, remem8er? EB: yes, so i've heard.

Well, you were certainly good at the combat aspect of the game - so good, in fact, that you didn't need to engage with any of its other mechanics. The trolls, due to their upbringing, only saw Sgrub as something to defeat, and never took the time to listen to what it had to say.

Denizens are clearly incredible fonts of knowledge, as they're some of the only NPCs gifted with the knowledge of Paradox Space’s wider picture. For all we know, the Denizens could have been trying to warn the Alternians about Jack, or even threats as yet unseen.

Just how much did the trolls miss, by ignoring their counsel?

AG: Ok, I can't exactly speak for everyone. There was a lot going on, and I don't know how some people went a8out 8eating their denizens. AG: For instance, I'm not sure how our hero of 8reath did it. May8e the monster just released the hoard for him out of pity????????

Tavros didn't seem to have a particularly enlightened or nuanced view of Sburb’s mysteries, so I doubt he chatted much with his Denizen.

That said, I do see Vriska’s point. If we assume that all the trolls did defeat their Denizens – which is probably a requirement to beat the game – then how did Tavros pull it off? He’s not exactly a gifted fighter, and I highly doubt a Denizen qualifies as an ‘animal’ to control. I know Bec does, but I believe that's because he still has the mind of a dog. The Denizens are clearly sentient.

I guess there’s no reason all Denizen 'fights' need to be resolved through single combat. Perhaps Tavros completed his quest by playing a kickass game of Fiduspawn.

[borzoilover69]

There's something interesting to be said about the page class in homestuck.

Of course, we have the title definiton of the page. Serving as an understudy to royalty to become great. But we could also take from Jake English’s introduction himself to consider what a page might particularly be:

There is a good SKULL at the heart of any mystery, haunting its EVERY PAGE.

A page, like an empty page in a book. Lacking in anything written on it, but by being a page, given the utmost to have anything, anything written on it. That page could be anything if you learn to harness a pen.

We could speculate that we see the potential of a page in the scratched versions, in this case The Summoner, or Grandpa Harley. This is presuming they carry the same aspects as Tavros and Jake English respectfully.

Grandpa Harley and The Summoner play incredibly influential and important roles on their respective planets by shaping the way their worlds were shaped. Grandpa Harley translated and prototyped the SBURB game for the Beta Kids, set up SKAIANET, which documented the meteors and created tech to bring SBURB to reality, as well as taking care of one of the meteor children and guiding her research to further reach their goal. The Summoners revolution against the condesce is so large, it leads to the exile of all adult trolls to outerspace and away from the planet, which shapes how the trolls that would play SGRUB think and react.

We never see it addressed all that directly other than passing, even though it plays a major part in the story because at the end of the day, a page is a medium for conveying thought, for conveying words, but a page is never the full front and center.

And really its sort of fitting how it comes back to the fact that pages,to quote caliborn, "HAVE TO PROVE THEY ARE WORTHY TO EXIST." Because what use is an empty page! Its just another piece of paper. You can coax and threaten all you like but the words will not appear magically on the page making it a masterpiece. A page draws its importance from whats written on it, like how a page draws its power through other people.

[dingodad]

why can their only be one mother grub

okay there actually isn't that much to this one it's just that the comic pretty explicitly only ever refers to her as "THE mother grub" and the reasons i tend to hear for why there should or could be more than one are always based on shaky logic.

first and foremost that it "doesn't make sense" or "isn't practical" for all trolls to be born from a single cave when i think it's pretty clear that the strangeness and impracticality of one mother grub is basically the point. what we know about troll reproduction is that it is by its very nature incestuous, and that despite being in control of an empire spanning across a galaxy, once their home planet was gone the whole race was fucked. reproductive strategy - as demonstrated by Sburb, the reproductive strategy of universes themselves - is a key theme in Homestuck, and in that respect the reproductive strategy of the troll race a) starkly contrasts the reproductive strategy of humans on earth and b) fits in perfectly with Lord English's strategy for rising to power. almost all humans are capable of creating their own young (with some help) and therefore live independently from the colony, and in the same way, a widespread beta release of Sburb allowed humans lots of chances to recreate their race anew after the Earth's destruction. but English is the god of the inevitable, and of putting - in this case very literally! - all of his eggs in one basket. trolls all come from the one place, bred for one purpose, so they can play one single session of Sgrub and ensure Lord English's one, singular favoured outcome.

to that effect, by having a single brooding mother the trolls' life cycle reflects their social structure. the Alternian empire is an insect colony who, despite having spread across an entire galaxy, have only one queen; and while it is true that in the troll culture the roles of brooding mother and ruling queen are split across two individuals, that there is only one of the latter clearly demonstrates the methods of consolidation and control at play. while it would be more practical for the condesce not to slaughter the members of her bloodline who could be put to better use helping her control such a vast empire, one empress means only one voice to listen to. and when you're trying to keep a clean gene pool like the trolls are, having only one source of offspring to keep an eye on is just commonsense. this is another thing clearly indicated at in Act 6; when the condesce took control of earth she decided that it would suit her purposes better for humans to all donate their genetic material to a central cloning lab rather than be allowed to reproduce freely.

another suggestion i used to see a lot but i guess not so much anymore is that the trolls could, or perhaps would even need to, establish reproduction on the planets they've colonised, which I think stems from a misunderstanding of the whole reason adult trolls are sent into space. it seems to me like some labour under the presumption that, prior to the summoner's revolt, there were no trolls in space, and that the reason the adults were all sent away was to conquer a new frontier. but this isn't the case: we know that when the Signless was alive - which was many centuries before the Summoner could even have been born - he was part of a war "across the planet and throughout the galaxy." so when the condesce "fully decentralized the race from the homeworld [by scattering] all but the children throughout the galaxy", the purpose can only have been to separate adults from children, specifically. if there are more troll children being born on other planets in the empire then not only are the adults and the children no longer separated, but Alternia stops being a planet of any significance at all. it's just one planet where some trolls are born. we should also keep in mind that, as above, the relationship between parent and child holds thematic significance in Homestuck. the separation of progenitor from progeny should always be thought of as a more important motivator than simply expanding Alternia's empire - which, it should be noted, isn't even a goal that furthers English's plans for the trolls! turning the young into emotionless killing machines, on the other hand, does further those plans.

and in the same vein as the clown thing, am i really just the only one who finds the idea of Alternia's subterranean regions being wholly dominated by this one huge overgrown bug - of a scale no living troll could ever comprehend in its entirety, pumping out offspring on a galactic magnitude - really cool. like why do you think trolls talk about this thing like it's a god. why do you think there needs to be a highly specialised and deeply secretive coven of vampire nuns looking after it 24/7

[nolonger100daysoftavvyfanart]

Upd8 thoughts! I've not done this before here so I might get the number of spaces wrong to hide spoilers under the read more, but I'll try it anyway;

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:readmore:

ok surely that's enough

I'd assumed the note was being read directly after they were shouting at her, but apparently they both snuck out later. I guess maybe Harry and Vrissy got distracted or something? It's also very interesting that he's not using,,, his typing quirk,,, which could imply either:

It's just spoken. The pesterlogs could be explained as him using speech to text and treating it like a phone call, which would be in line with the Crockerlish old-timey stuff, thought nothing else suggests he does this

He can use full stops instead of commas when calm. This makes logical sense; he uses more commas when he's under stress, so he'd obviously use less when he's locked in

He didn't write the note. This is possible, but I hope he did.

The Yiffyism is interesting... Also, we might finally find out why his chumhandle is glutinousGymnast; I've previously speculated that he randomly generated it with a chumhandle generator, which may prove incorrect.

Tavvy rodent imagery is back!

Getting killed while generating a shield is dying while protecting someone. Textbook heroic death, I think this one might just stick... though maybe getting taken out by some mook goon cancels it out?

Goop on the screen is interesting. Could it be ecto-slime?

I'd say the skin is too dark to be a troll but vintage-foods has been known to play with the troll tones... At the very least, we now know that GC isn't AR-Terezi, which was a popular theory.

backwards arc number spotted

The only time I can think of where new word != new species was Jane "bothering" people

I seem to remember Vrissy saying something like "nobody worth messaging anyway" about this new chap. At the time I assumed that meant GC was a bot, but maybe they're just clingy... the run on texting stuff kind of reminds me of Harry.

Maybe the goop is said volatile materials? And now we know they aren't a cherub, since they're skeletons, and skeletons don't have buttcheeks

like... a seer?

Candy kids sburb! wait.

These lines earlier kind of imply that TC and GC actually worked on the game, which none of the beta kids had to do for Sburb. Though I do vaguely remember Sollux had to do something hacker-ish for Sgrub...

Ok the goop is definitely volatile

Time to see how this affects my end flash bingo card! I'll have to change things if this upd8 made them impossible, and I'm allowed to change things if I think they've become unlikely.

I was worried I'd have to eliminate "Deltritus kid intro", but luckily I didn't say it had to be the first one.

I do have to get rid of "Tavvy note read during the flash" because it's already been read now. I also have to lose "Moon laser set off by someone dying", because it's already gone off.

I'll be replacing these later this week I think. Good upd8!

[davekat-sucks]

Another thing is that Sburb/Sgrub was never finished. We only see alpha and beta versions. While it would be neat to explore what a full release of Sburb/Sgrub would be like, I doubt anyone working on Homestuck wants to show what that would be like.

Imagine, instead of making a sacrificial species to play Sburb and hoping meteors with ectobiological clones of that species show up, Dirk instead patched Sburb so starting a session wouldn't totally destroy the players' planet(s). He makes the Skianan defense portals send the childless meteors into empty space or something. Bro programmed Sburb for the beta kid timeline, so Ultimate Dirk should know how to hack and modify Sburb.

Heck, Dirk with Rose's help might enough come up with an alternative win condition that lets 1-2 player sessions make a new universe (or just makes it so sessions with less than 3 players won't start until at least 3 players join for the best chance of success). Alternatively, Dirk just patches things so another Lord English can't come about from his version of Sburb. Even without updating Sburb, Rose, Dirk, or really any former player could write a complete walkthrough of the game to help prepare future players down the line, especially since Rose was looking for such a walkthrough after her session started.

It would be interesting to learn about the other lands, consorts, and the denizens as their final boss. What each one was, the purpose of it that reflects the growth of the character, and how each one may defeat the boss to gain all of the ultimate power. Most we could do is just speculate given small glimpses and names given to us. That would be interesting and game breaking to see someone hack and recode Sburb. And having an established walkthrough would show careful extra planning on Rose's part. Maybe have it also give secret messages that she tries to convey without someone like LE or anyone bad, could decipher.

[cannoliparty]

the knight class & its connotations

"the active exploit class, the knight’s job is to “protect their aspect or to protect with their aspect”. they will often end up protecting their allies who lack in the knights own aspect, and these protective tendencies are why they are often seen helping with frog breeding. typically, they are also protectors of the aspect itself, making sure it cant be destroyed in the session. all this protecting makes the knight's challenge learning other's capability in their aspect, growing to know that they are capable themselves."

knights arent as self-introspective as other active classes. lets compare it to a mage & a maid. aradia, maid of time, was busy visiting and "cleaning up" centuries worth of doomed timelines. as a play on words she was made of time, and very connected to her own aspect in that sense. sollux, mage of doom, knew a lot about sgrub (aka the game that would bring their doom) and although like a typical mage he had emotionally dealt with this dread, he still worked hard to split the trolls into teams and start their game, being very active and kind of confident in/with his abundant knowledge of his aspect.

another very strong contrast to a knight is a thief, one of the most self-serving active classes. vriska, thief of light, stole ideas and knowledge for herself. a thief's challenge is literally learning to share their aspect with others! overall, they are the most possesive of their own aspect and using it on/for themselves.

but when it comes to knights, they can be at a loss for how to use their own aspect on themselves. because like a real knight, they serve their aspect. this serving is done through harnessing their aspect as a weapon, and protecting allies either with that aspect or just protecting allies who lack in that aspect. because of all this self-righteousness and sense of protecting and serving, knights are at a loss for how to connect their aspect to themselves. after all, if you only weaponize your aspect how could you use a weapon on yourself?

a great example of a knight is karkat vantas, knight of blood. blood is representing of relationships, bonds, connections with other people, and sometimes just the blood in your body. physically, karkat is assumingly the weakest troll, a mutant in blood. but his vast knowledge in quadrants and overall with his servitude to his friendships, he protects the bonds he has with his friends and takes great care to them, keeping the group of trolls away from any heavy conflict in sgrub. this attitude to blood also makes him a great leader, able to easily rally even the most uncooperative of his friends and leading them to defeating the black king. but he wasnt very good at reflecting these bonds on himself. karkat often dealt with self-esteem issues and viewing himself as the most physically weak, and this is because of the very blood in his body. he hasn't accepted his own worth in his friendships or on the hemocaste of alternia. so as a result, he hides his blood color and his worth to his own aspect.

another example is dave strider, knight of time. he actively served through time, constantly going through and making stable time loops and overall increasing/exploiting the mechanical (time-related word!!) efficiency of sburb. but a negative aspect on time can be how dave used its "mechanical" attributes in other ways. this was through the emasculating but abusive outlook he was raised on. overall dave had a very rigid childhood, and tries to keep up an almost mechanical stoic outlook because of this.

one of the knights i really wish we got more of was latula pyrope, knight of mind. compared to the previous knights there's practically nothing we can take from her that isn't in the openbound segments. i assume she could have been strategically (mind-related word) helpful throughout the alpha trolls' session, serving the logic of her friend's and logic itself. but she also is seemingly concealing a deeper part of herself. this is shown when latula and porrim meet in openbound, and when porrim tells her to "drop the skater act", she immediately does and starts talking in a more relaxed way. it's obvious latula keeps this over-the-top front to somehow maintain a sort of strategy. overall i just really wish we got more of the alpha trolls somehow T_T!!!

thanks sm for reading!!

[animallover432]

Deeply fucked up that Eridan and Nepeta were forced to work together for the sgrub session. How did that even happen, I imagine it took so long for her to be able to play the game that he was like the only chance left to escape annihilation, but still what the fuck. Cat girl who hates the hemospectrum, and enjoys shipping and hunting having to be forced to work with fascist fish wizard man who wants to kill everyone lower than him on the hemospectrum, including her. Most accursed sburb session server client pair ever. And we don’t even see them interact in the comic once!

[autisticsupervillain]

FTF: Isekai Invasion!

The show where we take a character and drop them into a different franchise at a random location to see if they can conquer the world.

This Episode...

Karkat Vantas vs The Underground!

Conditions:

Karkat's only goal is to escape the Underground alive.

Everyone in the Underground us operating under the assumption that Karkat is a human who is very dedicated to his cosplay, regardless of what he insists.

Flowey doesn't interfere because he finds Karkat's antics entertaining.

Besides that, everyone is in character.

It's assumed Karkat is capable of passing through the barrier.

Scenario:

Karkat falls into the Underground and wants to go home.

Invader: Karkat

Ask yourself one very important question. A question that has plagued nearly all of mankind since its very inception. What does God, our omnipotent creator, look like?

Stop thinking, because you're wrong. Our God is just an internet troll from another universe who wears a massive sweater, pulls his pants up to his chest, and has a love for dumb rom coms.

Meet Karkat Vantas, a mutant blooded alien troll from the distant planet of Alternia. Born as a mutant with bright red blood, Karkat had no place in Alternia's dystopic blood-based caste system and, as such, his very existence was a crime punishable by death. As such, Karkat has lived his entire life in constant fear and paranoia that one day his blood would be discovered and he would be killed. Growing up as a born outlaw in a murderous dystopia did not do well for Karkat's psyche, resulting in him growing up into an abrasive asshole who was fully convinced he would die at any moment.

Little did he know until his 13th birthday (or 6.5th birthday going off Alternia's time measurement system), he had inherited a destiny, regarding both the future of his race and the future of his very universe.

See, Karkat wasn't any mutant. He was a direct descendant of the Signless. A troll who, many centuries ago, had rebelled in the name of trolls of every caste, seeking to bring peace to the horrific, bloodthirsty dystopia. He was executed for his efforts, but not before his genetic information was copied.... by Karkat himself. Technically.

Karkat's other destiny was his destiny as a SBURB Player. He and all his friends were destined to play a video game called SGRUB, which would bring about the end of their world. The game, if played right, would allow Karkat and friends to become the gods of the new world, but in order for that to happen at all, the game had to allow Karkat to ensure his own existence through time traveling clone science fuckery. It's complicated.

This gave Karkat a golden opportunity to both escape his horrible situation and rule as the leader of a pantheon of gods over his own personal universe. Namely, our universe. He kindly assures us that it would've been a horrific and brutal regime, but it never really got off the ground, as Karkat's victory was stolen from him at the last second by an invincible time demon and Karkat would up having to work with the humans he had intended to enslave for the sake of survival.

This is because Karkat is not even half the conquer he wants to be. He isn't even really the leader of his team. Despite all his bluster of being a God born from a superior warrior race, Karkat is a loud mouthed weakling when measured up to nearly anyone else on his team. He has no special powers, he's physically the weakest out of everyone, and he isn't even an actual God.

What Karkat does have... is heart. Much to his chagrin, Karkat's special power is basically friendship. As a Blood Player, Karkat is supernaturally predisposed to being really good at making friends and maintaining friendships... which turned out to be the very thing he needed to succeed as well as he did.

See, all of Karkat's friends have a very deep, bloody history. As in, "these people are personally responsible for the most traumatic and horrifying events in my life. Events that shape who I am as a person to this day" deep. They've killed each other before and they would again. However, thanks to Karkat's influence, they're able to not only work together but actually almost get along. Karkat had a genocidal highblood supremacist counting him as one of his best friends, that's how potent this guy's friendship power inexplicably is.

A lot of this can be chalked up to the Blood Aspect, sure, but a lot of it can also be chalked up to who Karkat is under all the paranoia and anger. He gets people, he understands their character flaws, their failings, their fears, and he sympathizes with them. He gets, probably better than anyone else, that everyone around him is effectively a terrified kid with boatloads of trauma. That's the real reason he could never by the bloodthirsty tyrant he dreamed of. It's not who he is, at his foundation. It just took a long time and a lot of bonding with the humans he supposedly despised for him to realize that.

That said, Karkat is only physically unimpressive by the standards of the literal gods that surround him. He's still a SBURB Player and he still grew up on an inhospitable hell planet. As such, he is much stronger than your ordinary human.

Notably, he should powerscale to the same kind of meteor trip that Dave's sprite survived, as it wasn't even Prototyped yet and the Players are generally shown to be able to fight evenly alongside their sprite. That's an impact of almost 4.24 Megatons of TNT.

Source:

He also much faster. Comparing to the human's Guardians, who can move in the span of lightning flashes and nanoseconds.

From this point, Karkat has been getting stronger all of his life. Everyone and everything in Homestuck has an Echeladder, a video game style leveling system that continues to make them stronger as they accomplish random things throughout their life, ranging from opening a fridge to winning a fight.

On top of this, Karkat is certainly a much more skilled fighter than your average human being. His team was able to take in the armies of the Kingdom of Derse, which has been warring with its opposite Kingdom of Prospite for as long as its home reality has existed. Despite that, Karkat found himself being flat out disappointed by how easy they were to fight against, with only the King proving to be enough of a challenge to rally the whole team.

As with all Homestuck characters, Karkat also has a sylladex, a hammerspace inventory system where he can store objects much too big to carry on his person, allowing him to pull out his handy twin sickles whenever he needs them. Really, the fact that most of his friends can knock him out cold with a love tap says more about them than it does about him.

Despite that though, Karkat is still not a fighter and he possesses bad luck to a literally superhuman degree. In fact, his luck is so horrible that it completely counters out luck based superpowers, allowing him to beat Clover, whose luck is so supernaturally good that it made him completely untouchable to everyone else on the battlefield except for Karkat. Turning all your negatives into a positive. If that isn't just Karkat's entire character arc.

Karkat is not the conquerer he so desperately wanted to be. But he is a leader and he is a friend, and in the hands of a Blood Player, those two titles are far more powerful than a warrior ever could be.

Invaded: Underground

Long ago, two races ruled over Earth: HUMANS and MONSTERS. One day, war broke out between the two races. After a long battle, the humans were victorious. They sealed the monsters underground with a magic spell. Until many years later, the seventh human would fall into the Underground, with the last soul they'd need to escape their prison.

Having resigned himself to a quest for revenge after the death of his son and adoptive child at humanity's hands, Asgore swore to use the human souls to achieve godhood and destroy mankind.

And if they were going up against the regular real world humanity? Well, let's just say they'd be wildly successful.

Monsters as a whole seem to be genuinely superhuman by any real world standard, as they frequently show to be able to tank explosions, bust down steel walls, and dodge sound. But, their real strength comes from their magic. As beings made entirely from magic, monsters can damage both the human body and soul with all of their attacks, bypassing a targets conventional durability.

How exactly this manifests depends on the monster specifically. Skeleton monsters throw bones at you, fire monsters throw fire, and snow monsters such as Snowdrake can even create blizzards, a feat that would generate energy equivalent to 15 Megatons of TNT.

Source:

But, they can get much more versatile than that. Like Tsunderplane, a sentient airplane, Vulcan, a sentient mini volcano that can create storms and shoot lightning, and Knight Knight, a giant sleepy knight woman who can create a small sun and call down meteors.... underground.... somehow. Every monster has unique bullet hell attack patterns that can be used in tandem with each other's, coming at you from seemingly all directions at once.

Thankfully, monsters are generally good sports, who will happily wait for you to solve their puzzles and explain how their weird attacks work to you if you seem to not be getting it. Take Papyrus, the confident, boisterous sentry of Snowden who, despite his aspirations to capture a human, could never bring himself to actually hurt one. Even his commander Undyne, arguably the most gung ho about capturing humans, will explain how her powers work to the opponent if they appear to be having trouble... provided you don't test her patience.

And, if soul destroying magical attacks aren't enough, they come in different types. Blue attacks go right through you if you aren't moving, while orange attacks go right through you if you are, and green attacks heal you on contact. Beyond even that, some monsters have special techniques that can change the nature of your soul itself.

Papyrus and his lazy brother Sans can turn your soul blue, subjecting you to increased gravity to force you to jump over their sea of bones, including bones that can stretch as high as a building. Though, Sans's forth wall breaking and teleportation imply that something... more is going on with him.

Undyne, Captain of the Royal Guard and Gero of the Underground, can turn your soul green to freeze you in place, before honorably handing you a spear so you can block all of her attacks.

Muffet, a nefarious spider baker with a penchant for cooking stingy customers into pasteries, turns your soul purple, leaving you tied up in her web and jumping from string to string to escape her man eating pet.

Mettaton, a charming ghost whose robotic body was built by the brilliant Dr. Alphys, serves as the Underground's biggest star, rocking and indestructible body in his base form while his EX form rocks a host of lasers, bombs, and... legs. Some of his attacks can only be dodged with the Yellow Mode soul power provided by Alphys inventions.

And finally, there is the royal family. Toriel Dreemurr is the caretaker of the Ruins, bent on protecting any humans that fall down from her ex-husbands madness. She is the first monster you'll face and Asgore is the last, and though neither force unique soul modes on you, both stand as the strongest monsters out there, burning away all opposition with blistering hot fire.

Despite this incredible variety in powers and skills, monsterkind is held back by some crippling weaknesses. The stronger their foes killing intent, the more damage they take, even being wiped out in one hit by those with genocidal ambitions. Due to their not fully physical nature, their power depends heavily on their own emotions and they lack the ability to wield the time altering power of Determination without eventually melting into a puddle.

So, monsterkind is most held back by the fact that very few of them actually want to hurt you. They're just decent people trapped in a hopeless situation. Even Asgore underneath it all is just sad and tired and misses his family.

Exploit this kindness at your peril, for two monsters in particular stand ready to smite you down should you threaten their world. Undyne the Undying and Sans.

Should Undyne be pushed to the brink, she'll absorb the power of the Earth and use her Determination to strike you down with all her power, going strong with all her might even as she melts from her own Determination. Sans, on the other hand, cheats. Blasting you with Gaster Blasters, throwing you around by manipulating your Souls gravity, and poisoning your soul with your own sins. He's fast enough to dodge any attack you throw at him, and can even break the forth wall to trap you in an eternal stalemate, attacking during your turn or simply never even taking his.

Humans who head for the cliffs of Mt. Ebott beware, for all humans who venture to the mountain never return... and for good reason.

Throwdown Breakdown:

Alright, first off, statistics.

Monsters are consistently much stronger than Karkat, with even characters as early as Snowdrake able to create snowy weather with 15 Megatons of TNT. This is both much higher than the feat Karkat scales to at 4.24 Megatons and is consistent with feats performed later like Vulcan creating a storm cloud.

However, scaling to Mom Lalonde moving disappearing in a flash of lightning and Bro being stated to move in nanoseconds, Karkat is much faster than anyone in the Underground. Light speed is thousands of times faster than lightning and millions of times faster than sound, putting Karkat at much faster than any projectile monsterkind can throw at him. This is a very significant advantage, as not only is it much bigger than the strength gap, but it compensates for Karkat's biggest weakness. Without any resistance to soul destroying attacks, Karkat would get absolutely shredded by a monster's magic.... if they can land a hit on him.

If they can't land a hit, then Karkat stands a fighting chance. Attacks that would otherwise trip him up and kill him, such as the various soul modes, would be more manageable just because Karkat can react so much faster than monsters can attack, keeping them from reliably capitalizing on their strange movesets.

The question then becomes: how does Karkat react to the residents of the Underground? Because that's going to influence who he has to fight and why.

If this were Act 5 Act 1 Karkat, I'd say "kill almost everything without thinking twice about it?" People do forget that Karkat, especially early on, was not a pacifist or a revolutionary. He was a bootlicker and he still holds many of those qualities until the end of the comic, flat out idolizing the Condescension and the bloodthirsty culture she created, largely because he had no choice.

Buuuuuut, Karkat by the end of the comic has changed significantly. The ability to talk no jutsu his way out of dangerous situations with genuine compassion is a skill he develops with time and circumstance as he gradually unlearns a lot of his past behavior. So while he would still be willing to fight people who seem absolutely dead set on killing him, he would be entirely willing to approach the situation more reasonably.

If Karkat is able to see and willing to approach the good qualities in Eridan and Gamzee, despite their genocidal nature, then I can very well see him seeing those aspects mirrored in people like Undyne and Asgore. Hell, Jack tried to stab him to death and Karkat imprinted on him like a lost baby bird. Do you really think that he could bring himself to kill Toriel?

Karkat would likely bully his way through the Ruins. Quite literally, as his screaming would probably scare away most of the regular monsters, much to Toriel's disgruntlement. She's protective but she would prefer you watch your language young man. Despite that, Karkat begrudgingly warms up to her, as her scaring off aggressive monsters with a glare would earn her some cool points in his book, even if he questions the logic of her "talk it out" preaching and annoyed by her protective tendencies. He'd be a hypocrite for it, granted, but still.

Then comes the question of whether he'd kill her when the time came. After all, he doesn’t know about Toriel's weakness to harmful intent, nor does Toriel necessarily phrase the battle as a fight to the death.

I went back and forth on whether or not Karkat would accidentally kill Toriel and then cry his little eyes out. Until I reread the lore and noticed something.

"A being with a powerful soul". As in, a human soul. Karkat isn't human. Karkat is significantly less likely to accidentally kill Toriel in this context than Frisk is for the same reason that monsters can frequently spar with each other and not accidentally dust each other. He lacks the powerful soul needed to make his attacks devastatingly lethal when his only intent is to "prove himself" as per Toriel's ultimatum.

Karkat would get close to killing her, stop, and then when Toriel keeps fighting, go on a tirade. He'd rip into her verbally about how selfish she's being in trying to keep him here. Even without knowing her for very long, Karkat is generally emotionally intelligent enough to put the pieces together, between the discarded shoes and Toriel's stories about the rest of the Underground, to realize she's trying to avoid being hurt by losing another child, even if he wouldn't get close to understanding the full story.

"FUCKING NEWSFLASH, LADY! I'M NOT YOUR DUMB HUMAN KID! I'M NOT EVEN A HUMAN KID! YOU'RE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ME WANDERING OFF TO GET MYSELF KILLED AND YOU DON’T GET TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT I TRY!! I HAVE A LIFE OUTSIDE OF THIS SHITTY CAVE AND A FAMILY AND A LUSUS- ER, DAD? MOM? WHATEVER. THAT ISN'T YOU! SO LET ME OUT!!"

It would work. Toriel is capable of recognizing when her protective desires are selfish.

This is where Karkat hits his first big road block: Papyrus. After a few rounds if hilarious back and forth with Sans annoying the fuck out of him and Karkat's tirades bouncing right off Papyrus's big dumb grin. ("YOU TWO REMIND ME OF THE TWO WORST CLOWNS I'VE EVER MET." I can see a bit where Papyrus goes on a tirade about Papyrus's cooking only for Paps to go "WOW, YOU MUST REALLY HATE YOURSELF TO SAY ALL THESE BAD THINGS ABOUT YOURSELF" and just.... destroy Karkat emotionally by complete accident. Sans is having a blast watching all this. Karkat gets trolled by Papyrus being himself. Best prank ever.

Besides that, this is where an issue crops up. No one is going to know that Karkat gets one-hit by any soul attack until it actually happens. Not Karkat, not Papyrus. This means that even people who aren't trying to kill Karkat won't hold back against him adequately enough to avoid it. And Karkat won't know because every attack that comes at him is so much slower than he is that he won't take them as a credible threat.

This culminates in the issue at hand: Karkat cannot handle Blue Mode. Blue Mode is gravity manipulation that directly effects the soul and Karkat has no resistance to anything soul related. His acrobatics are completely crippled because he can't jump like he could anymore. So Karkat may very well stop here as Papyrus accidentally kills him.

But I do think that Karkat could cut through or climb the sea of bones with his sickles using his superior speed. Papyrus isn't so much stronger that such a thing would be impossible and, unlike Sans's attacks that go right through you, Papyrus's attacks are physical objects that can be picked uo and he physically carries around.

Beyond that, the fight plays out basically the same as if you were to fight Papyrus. Papyrus accidentally roasting Karkat would likely lead to an emotional moment that culminates in a friendship that keeps them from killing each other in the end.

Waterfall beyond that is a wash. No pun intended. Karkat being literally thousands of times faster means Undyne straight up isn't catching up with him, much less hitting him with green mode given his reaction time. I do think Karkat can just run right past her into Hotland, as she's one-third his speed.

Karkat skips Mettaton by saying enough slurs on TV to get him canceled and Mettaton calls it a wash. Can't say words like that in show biz and the censors (Burgerpants) don't get payed enough for this. Then Alphys just.... awkwardly leads him to the exit. She wouldn't even pass out on the bridge because she'd lose him before getting that far.

Okay, no, but really, Mettaton came prepared by having every word Karkat says preemptively bleeped. Karkat then reads Alphys for filth when the question of her crush comes up, making a tierlist of all four options in each quadrant before going on a three hour tirade about what quadrants are. Mettaton capitalizes on the memetic outburst with quadrant themed merch and Alphys gets a new shipping chart.

Frankly, Karkat's instantly memeable rants make all his guest appearances smash hits as Mettaton effectively recreates the Homestuck fandom around him in the Underground. Karkat ultimately prevails in their final encounter by just being a more proactive protagonist than Frisk, spelling out for Mettaton how much the Underground needs him rather than letting him figure it out himself. Karkat and Alphys have a heart to heart where Karkat gives her shockingly genuine encouragement about her insecurities, even for as much trouble as they caused him. She's done nothing but try and be helpful so far and, well.... Karkat takes care of his friends when the chips are down.

Then Karkat beats Asgore (speed gap go brrrrrr) but refuses to kill him and leaves, dropping his grumpy act one last time to genuinely wish him the best, before leaving victorious.

Until Flowey resets to dick with him some more, but that's outside the scope of this analysis.

Karkat lacks the DETERMINATION needed to achieve a True Pacifist ending, but he has all other parts of the equation, the compassion, charisma, and speed to not get hit, giving him a comfortable Neutral Pacifist ending.

This Throwdown's Winner is...

Karkat Vantas!

[blaperile]

Homestuck: Beyond Canon (reactions pages 615 - 625)

Oh man, that was a great update.

Finally we get to see (any version of) Karkat again, it's been so long! I love how he adresses it himself in a meta way with that "KEPT YOU WAITING, HUH" (which hilariously also reminds me of Snake's introduction video in Super Smash Bros. Brawl).

Also, the "big kahuna" thing is a fun callback to how Meenah insisted Jake called her during their last conversation.

I love how much Karkat and Meenah visually resemble the Sufferer and The Condesce lately, fits just right in with how Dirk and Rose were now looking similar to Bro and Mom in the latest update.

Karkat's interactions with Meenah and Sollux are still absolutely golden. Especially love the callback to Hivebent back when Karkat (jokingly) asked Sollux if they were still friends, and now Sollux is doing it to him.

Pffff, the LOBsTERs. Such a silly name and clear A-Team/Rambo rip-off, but I love it. It also clearly shows how Karkat isn't just fighting for/with the Trolls but also has help from all OTHER kingdoms (the Consorts, Carapaces AND Humans!)

Karkat's going with barely any of sleep again, kind of like he did during SGRUB.

Anyway, it's really clear that this is building up to a serious confrontation with Jane. In fact, the very last page here kind of feels like how back in the Homestuck days you'd just know the next page would be an [S] one.

And it would make so much sense for it to drop on 6/12

Except, James Roach his newspost is saying we're still getting another update later this month. So is the [S] page still dropping later this month after all, or will there be one more update for build-up before the real deal?

I'm looking forward SO HARD to that [S] page. It's been so long since we've had one in Homestuck^2, and it'll be the first time for a "proper" one (seeing as the previous [S] pages here were just the God Tier clock and Sollux watching Aradia disappear).

I'm guessing this [S] page will probably be the closure of "Act 1", the question is just what exactly will happen in it?

I'm assuming it will involve pretty much everyone in the Candy timeline (though I wonder what role the kids would play in it exactly?), I'm curious to see if it will also deal with the Meat timeline (will it show Dirk's timeskip and the chasing ships arriving?).

My guess is it will also reveal what exactly "The Point" is. Will it be a Hiveswap-like portal that can transport them to the Meat timeline? Will it be a device that will transport the meteor and everyone on it?

Oh man if the entire meteor gets transported and Jane's ship(s) get left behind that would also be an interesting callback to when Jane entered SBURB and saw the Condesce's ship flying overhead.

If instead they come through a similar portal device on the Meat meteor it would be funny to see their reactions what with how all the Creators are currently gone from that planet (either going to Deltritus or on a little adventure with Jasprosesprite^2).

And will it already be time for Deltritus to start their SBURB session in the next update or not yet?

And what could even be the song? Something composed by James Roach himself, perhaps? Will it be an entirely new song, an existing Homestuck song, or a new song using some existing Homestuck motifs in it?

As for the name of the page, I'm going all-in on "[S] Get to The Point" :D

[thattumbluser21313]

My HC for how earth C/ A future sequel that will never happen officially is the descendants of the main cast play a game of Sburb. But here are a few catches

1:It takes place about 20 years after the ends of the credits so everyone is about late 30s

2:It doesn’t make sense why anyone of the “Kids” would re create Sburb because it caused so much destruction and problems SO what I propose instead is we have the descendants discover the last copy of Sburb in paradox space since there was a effort by their parents to make sure it could never happen again.

3:The “Kids” have all of their powers reset as soon as the first person boots up Sburb because Sburb has to autocorrect to someone who it might see as “cheating” since you can’t be that powerful that quick.

4: Now it would be kind of boring to see this happen the same way just different characters so what if instead of the goal of Sburb being to crate a new universe it is too mend the old one back together

5: It would be a bit different in the sense that how I imagine their session gose wrong is that they have a un even number of players and since the game never expected this it accidentally puts all of the players as Prospit Dreamers and the other side has none so that side is steam rolled and then the roles of the game are reversed meaning that Prospit overpowers Derse and they have to work to now take down the White King

6: All of the “Kids” are trapped on Derse as prisoners (like of how the guardians were in the Beta game) and they have to use their knowledge of the other games to get out and that is what they are doing during the game. It’s also a lot harder since they don’t have access to any of Sburbs mechanics for them (alchemy,God Tier,Lands) the game isn’t for them this time around

I have more but I need to actually start writing something for this so I will call it Sburb:The Last Game (or something idk yet)

(Alright one last thing this copy of Sburb is a copy only existed internally and it’s color motif is Blue (Green,Red,Purple for Sburb,Sburb Alpha,Sgrub respectively)

[tekras-iszovh]

how old are you tekras? youvplayed sburb? where are your teammatea? what was your planet like? denizen? consorts?

"= oh, good questions. it's like my own opportunity. to lore dump. and gladly. ="

"= so, age, can be distorted by multiple factors. (i have had a torrentially bad history with experiences inside robotic selves, fake death, at one point i was frozen in place for who knows how many sweeps- long story, but i'm still here so i can tell it.) but i am late into my thirteenth sweep at this point. when measured by the standard 'life experienced' metric - physically, it froze upon godtiering, which i unlocked about a half sweep ago, but was toying with earlier. ="

"= the game was played, i was eleven sweeps aged at the time, although by the name sgrub, and we had a specific version of it tailored to the unique nature of longer-distance gaming - space, and all - we were all long off planet. aha. i was stationed on a ship headed by the armourer, who was also involved heavily in my raising and training. old man, ancient fuckin seadweller, haha, but i would not change that. ="

"= so as such, the game was not too ready to deliver an apocalypse, so the game kind of just pulled our cabins out of the ships and caused minor breaches, from what i can tell. it was all recoverable, as it is with the impermeable security of the empire, said with heavy heavy tones of sarcasm. my teammates had the same happen. however, as far as i know, of the eight of us, four of them died in a wild mashup of violent outbursts, misplaying and generally attempting to pull eachother down due to a misinterpretation of how this game was meant to be played. ="

"= the other four of us had to relink a couple things and push forwards. but the sabotaging remained, which is why i broke off from them, eventually. i realised, hm, that my given path could end up being something very, very powerful, if i pushed the right buttons. perhaps, ones that were not intended to be modified at all. ="

"= denizens, honestly, most of them are probably still alive and lingering in their planets. mine made for great knowledge, although i am not sure if it was scared of what would have happened, if i did not do it. i still don't know if it wanted us to win or not - all i know is that i am sure that the initial fate of it all was that we were to lose, and perhaps 'reload' our session or even universe, but i decided against it. ="

"= either way, long, tall, big snake, thing looks like it could choke you out. is yours similar? i didn't go to see anyone else's. as for the consorts, uh. ="

"= i don't think i saw any. i heard good things about their little- uh, side quests, but i kind of meant real high intensity pusher beatrate fast-paced bruteforcey business, and that's that. wherever they were, i must have ran right past it on my personal quest, to hm, kind of break into the backend a little bit, which is how i made a lot more progress. ="

"= but yes, i've "played" the game, in a perjorative sense. it has been 'played', for an idiot. i'm sitting on the reward, and now that i have it i have no clue what to do with it. i will not spoil you, though, and i'm sure everyone's is different - maybe mine is fucked, considering i brute forced it, hah, who knows. ="

"= as for the remaining three teammates, one of them fucked up the godtiering process or didn't do it right, one, hm. might still be in there, or he used one of the return portals to fuck off back to the universe before it ever happened, etc. shit, it could not be, but i do not keep track anymore - and the third, he was quite important to me, but fundamentally i think he has such a different role to me in the wider scheme of things, that we cannot interrupt eachother. one who has vast ability to see into the future, cannot interact much with someone who has an ability- or trait - that can shift the bearings, the plan of said future en-masse, we kind of completely twist eachother's pans up, fuck, ha. ="

"= okay, that is your bisweeply tekras word-dump about machinations of sgrub extraplanetary edition v4.a alpha session. it's free of charge, but it costed you time thinking, with your pan, reading it. so, was it worth it - maybe - send me ten million caegars, or else. ="

"= jk. it all looks like a lot here, but it took two and a half sweeps. plus a stretch of time which was a little dilated. so add a bit. ="

[tranquilspot]

[S] STRIFE!

Ha ah! Halloween season jumpscare~ You thought you'd seen the last of me (and this liveblog)!

This 'fight' is funny and laughable. It isn't really to be taken seriously. DAD lighting the candles on the cake can be seen as threatening (and dangerous!) if you was none the wiser that is. It's the boy's birthday, and his dad is aggressively celebrating it. Makes me wonder if strifing really is a custom in Homestuck, or if it's specific for the universes that will play SBURB/SGRUB. Whichever is the case, it's a mock battle is this situation. Or perhaps ageing IS threatening to John. Adulthood (or rather adolescence here) is a scary thing.

Colors, logic, art appreciation

I can't stop appreciating the art style and the dedication to its scarce (for now) details.

Like here, the very moment the candles are lit the flames go bworh! (damn and all at once?)

That's a transition frame, right? So neat. The nuance between the predominant black and white style and the colors is well-done. Less is more. The 'STRIFE!' logo thingy appears (two colors, kinda echoing to the candles. Flames = threat; but also Rochefoucault's quote from earlier?! hmm thoughts for later) and we have a brand new concept shown to us: Strife options. Aggrieve and abjure. By the way neon green and sky blue goes well together, it almost hints at John's and Jade's exchanged colors duality. Color theory is great once you get the hang of it! Aggrieving is offending someone. Rather than a physical attack, it suggest an emotional one. "I don't want your overwhelming love dad, or your stupid cake". Something among those lines. Also, he's such a dork making those movements with his hands. It looks like pseudo kung fu moves. He attacks and a lot more green appears on screen. Freakin' love the flash game effect on the background, and the simplified Slimer looming behind John, as if it was his familiar/symbolic beast having his back. Comical and kinda scary, with his ridiculous small eyes and large mouth. So he strikes, and is auto-pastried which is a pun on Auto-parry, a term and running gag from its predecessor Problem Sleuth. Still on my color observations (what can I say, I'm an artist that love art) this AUTO-PASTRY! is magenta kinda (but not really) close to the batterwitch's fuchsia. Guess I was too eager with that one. However it's nice to see there's different hue of the same color

The flashing dual color thing will also be used later for kernelsprites and ^2 sprites (this duo is Jasperosesprite^2's). The joker magnet echoes to the 'auto-pastry!' text, emphasizing the fact that the cake has comical properties.

Then he slides back into his previous position, simple and efficient (battle and artistic choice wise). If Aggrieve was an offensive and active tactic, Abjure is its opposite.

But before he reacts, it's DAD's turn to attack with a RPG naming system, like the Final Fantasy series (probably a tribute). 'Guardian Rubric: Coddlebrand'. Rubric is a title, but can also be a rule or a explanatory note (school). Is 'guardian' here a category or is he actually grading John on the spot? Perhaps the remaining word will shed some light.

Coddle is overprotecting, so that's what John could rejecting. Brand is a label, so is it a category or insincere 'marketing'. Depends on the point of view we position ourselves: Dad's or John's.

But here's a succinct (even subliminal) text that appears during the cake attack: 'Dotesmite!' What does it could mean? *do some research* Ooooh I see. Crushed by fatherly affection. Smite is hit, but according to world reference there's also a biblical meaning: kill/strike down. John in itself is a biblical name, but I don't see Dad Egbert being cruel to his son. He ain't Abraham. From there there's not much left to do in this flash. I'll just note that the movement effect during the Abjuring is reminiscent of John's windy powers, the blue and yellow colors coincident with his future God Tier outfit. Harmonious improvisation on Hussie part, for sure. Welp! We're done with this first Strife flash. It's writing was very laborious for unknown reasons and I'm very very sorry for 2 months of inactivity. Thank you for your patience, and I'll see you soon for the rest of Act 1. —> Coming soon

[hskinhome]

BA: okay sorry i know i JUST did an ask 8u7 i want to do a call now 83c4u53 im startin to remember stuff

so. im polvya, dont remember my last name. im a teal 8l00d. my moirail is a violet 8l00d called maypur, we have him in the sys. and i was pitch with a fuschia 8l00d called eespie (pronounced ee-ess-pey).

i had other friends. maybe around 8 of us?? im really not sure. i just remember a lot of em. i cant remember if we played sgrub/sburb or not 8u7 i do remember us 831ng on some sort of ship /space voyage thing.

eespie was... strange. him and i were grubhood 8357 friends. and i felt flush for him, 8u7 he started 831ng not very nice 8u7 i didnt wanna leave him so he 83c4m3 my kismesis at some point. he loved making technology stuff and i love 8337l35. so he made a robo 8337l3 thing for me which he named "8ug" it had a camera in it though, in fact he had a lot of cameras on me and thought i didnt know 8u7 i did and was fine with it. when we were on the ship sometimes hed take control of the speakers? and play classical music. this was usually a warning that he was about to randomly decide to fight someone or if people were already fighting lol.

i think i remember a girl? maybe an olive 8l00d 8u7 im really unsure. if literally any of this sounds familiar please respond, preferably 16+ interactions 8u7 im kinda desperate and will accept anything

Without typing quirk:

"BA: okay sorry i know i JUST did an ask but i want to do a call now because im startin to remember stuff

so. im polvya, dont remember my last name. im a teal blood. my moirail is a violet blood called maypur, we have him in the sys. and i was pitch with a fuschia blood called eespie (pronounced ee-ess-pey).

i had other friends. maybe around 8 of us?? im really not sure. i just remember a lot of em. i cant remember if we played sgrub/sburb or not but i do remember us being on some sort of ship /space voyage thing.

eespie was... strange. him and i were grubhood best friends. and i felt flush for him, but he started being not very nice but i didnt wanna leave him so he became my kismesis at some point. he loved making technology stuff and i love beetles. so he made a robo beetle thing for me which he named "bug" it had a camera in it though, in fact he had a lot of cameras on me and thought i didnt know but i did and was fine with it. when we were on the ship sometimes hed take control of the speakers? and play classical music. this was usually a warning that he was about to randomly decide to fight someone or if people were already fighting lol.

i think i remember a girl? maybe an olive blood but im really unsure. if literally any of this sounds familiar please respond, preferably 16+ interactions but im kinda desperate and will accept anything also i have a tq usually, replacing any words beginning with b with leetspeak, when i get excited tho sometimes ill replace vowels in all caps words with 8 as well"

Go message them if this sounds familiar!

-Mod Nepeta