#and then watch the deleted scenes at least as many times before watching the film again

[starbuck]

to the person in the tag who just said “I fear I'm giving you all a very skewed idea of what ravenous 1999 is like,” we may not know each other, but we are brothers in spirit

[alphajocklover]

As a kid, I watched a film that had these big cavemen tie a nerd to a pole before he was saved by his archaeologist friends. Since then, the idea of a bunch of cavemen taking a nerd to physically turn him into one of them while forcefully dumbing him down makes me so aroused. Too bad it didn't even happen in the movie, let alone real life...

‘Neanderthals!’ has been one of Terrance’s favorite movies since he was a kid, which made most of his friends very confused. A lot of them couldn’t figure out why he liked it so much. Terrance was the founder, president, and only member of his high school's movie club, the volunteer movie reviewer for his college newspaper, and generally the biggest movie buff that most people ever got to meet, but his favorite movie, out of all of the choices, was a C-list kids movie where a bunch of teen archeologist unfreeze three real cavemen who were stuck in an iceberg, and have to deal with their shenanigans. It was nothing special, just a lame kids movie that wasn’t even bad enough to be funny. None of his fellow movie buffs could figure out why you loved it so much, but the answer was surprisingly simple: that movie was Terrence’s sexual awakening. Watching the trio of muscular, hairy cavemen tie up a 15 year old nerd (who was played by a 19 year old actor for some reason) and dance around him ritually woke something up inside of him. He seriously thought for a moment that he was going to watch the nerd be turned into a caveman, and that fleeting thought has stuck in his mind for years like an itch he couldn’t scratch. He became fascinated with the idea of caveman transformations, and had watched the movie dozens of times over the years. Terrance had seen it so much he thought he knew everything about his favorite movie at this point, that he had every scene, every fact memorized. Until he heard about the missing scenes.

Like many small movies, the fanbase for it was incredibly small, but dedicated. It had one small reddit page, with about 7 people who regularly posted on it regularly, Terrance among them. Things were usually pretty calm there, until one day a newcomer to the forum reported that they had found a copy of the movie with deleted scenes. At first Terrance thought it had to be a scam, but the anonymous fan claimed he’d send a copy of the deleted scenes in the mail, for free, and Terrance accepted. He doubted the guy was trying to hack him with a DVD or something, so even though Terrance wasn’t expecting much, he gave the stranger his address (the address of a PO box. He wouldn’t give your address to a stranger, he was horny not crazy). He was shocked when he actually got the DVD as promised, and even more surprised when He put it on. As it blared to life, he immediately recognized the opening! It really was ‘Neanderthals!’ Or at least a version of it! The sender seemed to have cut out most of the scenes that were the same, leaving only the missing scenes and the opening left. Terrance watched in awe, laughing at the bloopers and making notes on the different scenes that were left out. Then, finally, they got to the scene you had been hoping for. 

It started out mostly the same as it did in the original movie, with one of the teen archeologists, Hal the stereotypical nerd, being kidnapped by the three cavemen, who danced around a fire as he was tied to a nearby pole. But soon the scene changed, and unlike in the original, the cavemen turned their attention to their captive. One of the cavemen, the one who gets redeemed toward the end of the movie and marries one of the main character Moms (like I said this was a weird movie), went up to Hal and rubbed some colored mud on his face, making distinct ritualistic markings. Terrance felt warm excitement come over him as he watched the three cavemen chant and dance wildly, and watched as what he always wanted to happen happened. Hal’s skin tanned slightly and his hair grew longer, wilder and dirtier. Terrance watched, entranced, as his muscles grew beefy and defined, practically able to feel the warmth coming from the fire as you did. He could see the actor's eyes glaze over as his brain seemed to melt and devolve, and could practically feel the dumb guffaw he made echo in your ears as his face became more gruff and his intelligence drained. This was exactly what Terrance had always wanted, what Terrance had been dreaming of seeing for years! Terrance’s itch was finally being scratched, and it felt so good. Terrance felt so good. Terrance felt great! Terrance felt… horny! He practically tore off his clothing, struggling with the buttons for some reason, and began to pull at his cock. He felt himself laugh dumbly and began to mutter.

“Terry is so… horny… Terry wants… pussy!” Terrance said, despite having been gay mere moments before. He laughed dumbly as the remains of his clothing magically transformed, becoming a loincloth. Terry continued to jerk his now growing cock as his changes finalized. Terrance was gone, replaced with Terry, a dumb, buff caveman, and all Terry wanted to do was to find a cave girl to plow.

**hey there! First time doing a caveman TF. Found it very hot (but also hard to find pictures for). Hope you guys liked it!**

[curiositydoorunlocked]

The Recent News

Spoilers ahead for Stranger Things 5, including photos of actors on set.

Look, something about all this (the leak + the photo situation) feels… fishy, and I can see people in various tags are getting various levels of upset by it. So as someone who has been around the block a couple of times, I want to say something. 

First of all: hi, everyone! I’m glad to be here. I’ve been a fan of ST since early-mid 2020 and involved in the fandom since mid-late 2020 (on other accounts, which have since been deleted), so I feel at least marginally qualified to say what I’m going to say. That being said, I drifted away from the fandom before S5 filming began and haven't watched the show in a while; if I get anything wrong please feel free to correct me.

First I want to talk about Bridgerton S3. I closely followed that production in 2022 and 2023. Like Stranger Things, Bridgerton is a high-budget Netflix original show with a large cast, lots of public interest, an active fandom, and what I would call "special considerations" for filming. (In Bridgerton's case it's the historical element; in ST it's the sci-fi/fantasy element plus the historical element, albeit to a lesser degree.) They filmed for a shorter period of time than ST5 is expected to film for, yes, but many of the circumstances are/were similar. That brings me to my point: when Bridgerton S3 was filming, the best we got from the main cast was a handful of photos a) taken from relatively far away that b) did not spoil anything major. Luckily for us, the photos were clear, but in the end they didn't really amount to anything more than eye candy, something to get excited over.

In contrast, these photos from the ST5 set are clear, close, and most importantly reveal seemingly significant story beats/results. (Okay, the Mike and Hopper one isn't super close or clear, I'll give ya that. But it's still pretty damn close for a set that's supposedly locked down! Especially if they're filming a scene possibly related to a major character's death/disappearance!) Kinda odd, right? I'm not necessarily saying they were leaked on purpose to misdirect fans, because I'm not that confident in myself. I don’t have any insider/industry knowledge; I can only claim a healthy (perhaps too healthy?) level of skepticism. But I do want to put that possibility out there, because I think it’s an important one to consider.

“But wait,” you might say, “many parts of S4 were leaked, and leaked accurately at that. What’s to say these aren’t real too?”

That’s a fair point! Maybe production hasn’t learned their lesson from S4; maybe they’re truly terrible at preventing leaks and that’s the end of the story. Yes, they’ve spoken a little about security measures in the lead-up to S5 but that doesn’t mean those security measures were implemented well, or even at all.

Even keeping that in mind, I nonetheless implore everyone to chill the hell out. I say this again, with so much love: CHILL THE HELL OUT. This has happened before: even with the accurate leaks and clear photos we got during S4 filming, we lacked so much context. Mike and El’s “I love you” scene is a great example of this. There was quite the brouhaha over that leak in certain corners of the fandom… and yet the actual scene turned out nothing like the phrase “Mike finally says ‘I love you’ to El” implies. Another example are these photos (see above; my apologies for the poor quality!) of the Hawkins group in the parking lot of The War Zone. When those photos were leaked, I recall speculation that the scene would appear at the very end of the finale, that it related to an apocalypse situation, and so on, but not so! In the show it appeared before the final battle with Vecna: the town was in a panic, yeah, but no apocalypse.

That’s what I mean about chilling the hell out. We can’t assume the photos/leaks are genuine—and even if we did indulge that assumption (which is fair given production’s history!) we can’t assume we have the whole story.

Hang in there, folks. We survived S4 production and we’ll survive S5 production too :)

TL;DR: Hi, I’m new and also not new here. I made this account just to talk about this photo/leak situation because that’s how passionate I am about this godforsaken show. This is a little weird, but whether the leaks/photos are real or planted, stay calm. We know so little right now. Don’t waste your energy on blind panic, not when we still have another year(ish) to go.

[thatsparrow]

can’t imagine the watcher decision wasn’t informed by the success of dropout, a streaming service I and many other people happily pay for, but this news undeniably feels like a disappointment in comparison, and am trying to articulate why:

1. amount of content. I can’t speak to when dropout first launched (I think I started subscribing late 2019?), but I know that when I joined, it already felt like there was an enormous backlog of series to explore—not to mention the amount that was also uploaded to youtube, albeit on a delay (I know I watched at least the first half of fantasy high s1 on youtube, if not the whole thing, and by the time I signed up for dropout, there was also s1 of unsleeping city, bloodkeep, tiny heist on the horizon, and s2 of fantasy high currently live streaming. not to mention the number of full episodes they'd uploaded to youtube of um actually, game changer, breaking news, etc. and how much more was then available on dropout)

I don't know what conversations were happening behind the scenes at dropout, I don't know in real-time what was subscriber-only and what was getting uploaded to youtube, or what the breakdown was of series getting created and solely released on dropout in comparison to content they were releasing for free. all I know is that when I heard about d20 and wanted to check it out, I was able to watch a good chunk via youtube, enough to know that I wanted more, and also to know that dropout had a whole lot else to offer that I was also curious about.

so that's one of the things that feels immediately different about the watcher announcement. they're teasing new series that will be available, but for the moment, it seems like everything that will currently be on the new platform is already available for free on youtube (to clarify, because there's been a lot of confusion on this front, they are not deleting their old content off youtube. all those videos are staying there). there's also a question of release schedule — are they talking about weekly episode releases of one season airing at a time, as was their youtube model, with stretches in between? I guess I come back to, if you're trying to go subscriber-only going forward (with the caveat that the first ep of a season will also get released on youtube, and also with the caveat that obviously dropout had to reach a certain level of success before it was able to release content at the volume, consistency and quality it does now), are you creating enough to justify the sort of wholesale transition they seem to be implementing? i'm not sure the answer is yes

2. paying/supporting artists. no one's arguing that you shouldn't pay or support artists, and there are incredibly valid critiques of how youtube hamstrings creativity and the issues with being beholden to advertisers. more creative freedom is a good thing. more independent artists is a good thing.

that said, it feels like there's a disconnect between what supporters are looking for from where there money is going and how watcher wants to spend it. the video really emphasized wanting to make tv-quality productions, and that they feel like they've hit a ceiling with the youtube business model in terms of achieving that aim, but are watcher fans looking for tv-quality productions? of the new series they mentioned, travel seemed like a pretty big element, which is obviously expensive. I think of new shows released on dropout, and they've clearly got solid production value behind them, but they're also still all filmed on a set (it's 3am in a warehouse!!) — even ambitious and expensive episodes of game changer are still basically shot in the same set of rooms, with the stakes raised from there (the escape room ep, bingo, etc.)

look, I don't work in digital media, and so I don't have a sense of what it costs to put on a show, but I can't help but look at some of watcher's stated ambitions that clearly need to have a significant budget behind them vs something like too many spirits (something I have to imagine has to cost a lot less, but which is just as enjoyable to watch) and wonder if part of the backlash has to do with how it feels like their current revenue is being spent/prioritized

and maybe the problem is that there's just a fundamental disconnect between the kinds of shows watcher wants to make, and what their audience is looking for, but if that's the case, it doesn't feel like moving to a subscriber-only system is the solution

[sickofthistoxicshit]

Lol.. first they promote the hell out of things only to cut it and then they go and delete critical comments on Insta... nicely done ABC.

Guess someone had to do overtime to delete over 500 comments on the Oliver reel. First I checked it was over 700, then suddenly you couldn't click on the answers anymore and now there are about 240 comments left.

Only a few about the cut karaoke. A lot where about how they bait and keep the transphobe around. All those seem to be gone now.

I have a bad feeling about this.

LOL yeah, PR team made a big boo-boo 😂

Not the first time, mind you, Fox used to make the same mistakes I wonder if these are the same ppl.

Also they are not responsible for the cuts, they work with what they get from the director and producer along with showrunner's descision.

Considering Oliver was talking about his favorite parts being filmed at the bachelor party and how much fun they had and how much they drank just to get through that karaoke scene, I'm guessing all cuts were made last minute and the responsibility is less on the PR ppl and more on the decision makers who has been known to be pathological liars over the years.

Moderation in the comments of a tv show is good to a degree imo, I've seen many pages on IG of big soccer teams and tv shows where the comments aren't moderated and it all borders on harassment and negative vibes between the fans themselves and the actors see it more than the decision makers anyway and the ppl talk about why they take a step back from social media.

Do I want the Marisol actress on the show? absolutely not, and that was before I found out about her bad joke on ig. - If you're a public figure and want to get work (in the US at least, where I come from if they fired every idiot who opens their mouth out of turn everybody would be out of a job) you keep your mouth shut and keep your account clean, she only has herself to blame for the hate she gets, especially considering that she didn't even apologize.

But sadly, she is here, crossing my fingers she won't be for long, not only because she's is a bad person, but also because her character is so lukewarm and trivial it's bordering on the absurd.

I am sad for Ryan and Oliver because they seemed so excited about these scenes in the bachelor party and the put in a LOT of effort into it.

BUT if that means the episode of Madney wedding focuses on Madney and nothing else, I am more than okay with that.

That is why you make the bachelor party in a separate episode, or like in CF in Mouch's party, you see them in the elevator dreading what may come, the get to the door figuring out that they've been played and that it is going to be a kick-ass party - the door closes- and opens up again in the morning and they all step exhausted and hungover into the elevator where it's clear the party was epic!

In 10 episodes season, you need to plan out, in advance, your time and scenes carefully, clearly it doesn't happen on 911,

My biggest fear is that from the hour and 15 minutes that were cut into 43 minutes, that the episode would feel rushed and not have emotional impact a Madney wedding should induce and maybe it would have been better if they cut guest stars storylines and calls down to make more room for a proper ceremony.

A kidnapping at this point feels like an overkill, they could have gone for a rough and dangerous call before the wedding and after everyone walk away, they are seen later that day or the next. at the wedding with a beautiful ceremony, like in Cruz's wedding in CF.

I really hope this episode focuses on Madney, everything else is completely unnecessary, I would be pissed if this episode focused more on other ships and take the spotlight off of Madney.

And the PR team should be handed the RIGHT materials in order to make a valid promo and post the right promotional pictures because otherwise it looks like they're deceiving the fans on purpose and that could be the reason why ppl would stop watching the show, ppl don't like to be played for fools.

Now, knowing that everything we were told we'll see was cut, and that final cut was made last second and SO much was cut, I have a bad feeling too, I am hoping we are both wrong. Because they can't afford another 6x18 episode - the format should be better with the move to abc not stay just as bad.

[picturejasper20]

You know with what the crew members of the The Wish film tweeted, I now fully believe that the exec’s at Disney might’ve had something to do with why the movie didn’t click with a lot of people

One of them was yelling about how frustrated they were this scene that was almost finished was deleted for some reason.

So, yeah, i can totally believe now that some weird shit happened during the production of this movie.

You can feel it yourself when watching it- the first third of the film jumps from one scene to the other with around 3-4 songs in 20 minutes. Characters telling Asha about how much she "cares" about others but we don't really see that. Asha complaining about she is told to "sit down" when she questions things like it has happened many times to her before when it happened once. It is such a bizarre pacing i don't recall seeing in other Disney movies before, at least the main ones.

Valentino feels like a character that was forced in the film to sell toys since he doesn't add anything to it. He isn't important for Asha's character nor has a role in the plot.

All things like that that give you an idea that the crew had a more interesting vision that was changed for demand of higher ups.

[daymeeawn]

DayMiiAwn And The Magic Railroad (Director's Cut)

I feel I'm one of the few people who really likes the Magic Railroad Deleted Storylines. Here are some random thoughts on it.

For starters P.T. Boomer wasn't at all what I expected, but I enjoyed him none the less. It was weird how Doug Lennox delivered certain lines ("It's gonna be mine, all mine" is just begging to be said in an over-the-top maniacal voice), but there was a lot of restraint to the performance that made the character feel more real and menacing. He was basically just the aged-up version of how a playground bully would behave in this kind of movie, and I think it adds some relatability to the dynamic between him and Burnett. This is more a personal note, but I find characters (not just villains in specific) who are willing to carelessly destroy other people's belongings to be deeply upsetting, so watching him stroll through Burnett's garden and punching Mr. Conductor's flower basket might have really scared me as a kid, which I'm not saying is a bad thing. Funnily, I think the general character trait of disrespecting nature is pretty good for Boomer. It could be a nice additional subtext to the movie, if the steam engines themselves weren't so bad for the environment.

I don't really mind the lack of engine characters. Before the workprint and deleted storylines released, I was only really interested in the missing Sodor scenes, but when these things released with so little to offer, I took the time to really watch these new human scenes, and I think together they make a perfectly compelling story about familial discourse. Burnett is the grandfather. In Lily's eyes, that means he's supposed to be a warm, welcoming figure. But ever since the love of his life passed away, Burnett has become a recluse, contacted only by his far away family and his occasional errand boy Patch. Lily no longer enjoys visiting her grandpa, but if finally forced when her father is away on business and her mother is about to give birth. She crafts him a friendship bracelet, which her grandma taught her to make, in the hopes that it will finally cheer him up. Despite how mature Lily makes herself out to be, she still maintains a childish mentality about the whole thing, that because Burnett is the grandpa, he's supposed to remain a consistently positive presence. When Lily does arrive, she shares a deathly quiet dinner with her grandpa, in what is probably the least cheerful scene filmed for the movie. Afterward, she shows Burnett the bracelet and tries in vain to put it on him. Burnett pushes her away. Lily goes to bed, and only after she's gone is Burnett willing to let his grief show. The next day, Lily tries to casually bring up the subject of her grandma, and Burnett plays dumb. Sick of trying to connect with him, Lily storms off to where she ends up meeting Patch. It's good to know why she looked so pissed off in the finished movie.

Patch is hardworking, loyal, and deeply respects his elders like Billy and Burnett. Though he comes off as kind of a blank slate in the final movie, in the deleted scenes he's one of the nicest characters in the movie. Just his willingness to maintain long, wistful stories from old men proves that he has the patience of a saint. He's just a good, old fashioned country boy who's willing to help anyone. He brings Lily to Shining Time Station, then leaves for a while to do one of his many errands. And when he returns Lily is missing. Patch has shown interest in the mysterious before, but he's never shown any awareness of the magical properties of Shining Time, so when Lily simply disappears, he doesn't know what to think, leading to my favorite Cody McMains performance in the whole movie, where he sounds genuinely distraught by everything that's taken place. Something I find interesting is how Burnett's grief over his wife and his grief over Lady are treated as two wholly different plotlines, one pertaining more to Lily and the other pertaining to Boomer. Patch sits in the middle of both conflicts, and it's a little awkward watching him juggle all the different roles he needs to fill. Most noteworthy is the scene where he shamefully admits to Burnett that he doesn't know where Lily is. That Burnett put his trust in Patch, and Patch failed him. Surprisingly, Burnett isn't angry, but as he quietly walks away, Patch then flip-flops to questioning him about the lost engine, and even gets sort of interrogative with him, when he was just apologizing to him a moment ago. Then Boomer shows up, and tries to bribe Patch for information in what's actually a kind of creepy scene. Here is where Patch shows him true colors. He stands by Burnett and refuses Boomer's offer, and it's the most firm he's ever been with someone. Here we get the complete version of Lady's backstory, which was senselessly chopped in half in the final version of the film. Presenting the big reveal scene in two separate halves makes Patch visiting Burnett in his secret workshop look like a common occurrence, and doesn't really achieve the same impact the scene was written with the intent to have.

Lily leaving to go to Shining Time is when the wedge in her relationship with Burnett is driven the furthest. Burnett knows where Lily went, and in his eyes, it means she doesn't want to be around him. In Lily's eyes, Burnett is just some sad sack who wants to wallow in his own misery, and sees her presence as a burden. Meanwhile, on Sodor, Lily has observed the behaviors of Mr. Conductor and Junior, one a responsible gentleman, the other a party dude, and when they're together, they never stop arguing. Yet, when Junior is abducted, Mr. Conductor is deeply concerned about him, because in the end, they're family, and they love one another unconditionally. When Mr. Conductor explains this to Lily at the campfire, he's not lecturing her, he's simply stating a fact, then asks her opinion. Lily seems to reject the idea momentarily, but slowly realizes there's nothing there to disagree with. She does love her grandfather, no matter what mood he's in. She decides to go home. She reunites with Burnett, and the two finally share a heart-to-heart. Burnett opens up about his grief for Tasha, and manages to tie it back into his failure with Lady. This time, when Burnett shows a slight hesitance to speak, Lily supports him, rather then running away. Lily tightens the bracelet around Burnett's wrist. He doesn't push her away. Tasha and Lady are intrinsically tied. Bringing Lady back also honors Tasha's memory. From here, Burnett is like a different character. Even during the chase scene, where he vicariously confronts Boomer, he seems to have a playful attitude about the whole thing. That's the hidden beauty of the chase scene, I think. Burnett is enjoying it the same way the audience is enjoying it.

In the final movie, we don't see Burnett or Lily again after the transition from the bluebird, but of course, in the workprint and deleted storylines, Lily narrates the story' conclusion, and shows us that after coming home, Burnett was willing to let people into his life again. Inviting the whole family over to visit and reconnecting with Billy Twofeathers. He lived out the rest his days peacefully. Patch, by allying himself with the side of good, not only got to see the sights of Sodor, but would also end up marrying Lily, showing how this strange experience helped him form lifelong bonds. And our protagonist Lily has learned the true value of family. Oh, and Thomas is there too.

[bedlamsbard]

late to the party, but trick or treat, if you're still up to some!

You get...a cut scene from Home 8 about Peggy hating the whole Captain America thing! (A cut scene I thought I'd lost by accidentally deleting the whole thing but stumbled over it today.)

Rose leaned her hip against the next sink over and watched Peggy worriedly.  “Do you want to talk about it?” she asked. “Before you go back out there, I mean.”

“What’s there to talk about?” Peggy said coldly, dabbing rouge onto her cheeks to try and even out some of the blotchiness left behind from her tears.  She wasn’t the kind of woman who cried prettily.  “Steve married another woman, and now she’s going to be on the cover of every newspaper and magazine from here to Timbuktu.”

“Did you want to be?” Rose asked shrewdly.  “On the magazine covers, I mean, not the other part.”

“Of course not,” Peggy said, turning to look at her.  She had watched Steve sit – well, stand – through too many photoshoots over the course of the past year and a half to want any part of that.  “The whole thing is absurd, I’m astonished that Phillips is still letting it go on when he has the opportunity to let it die a natural death.”

“The whole thi – what, Captain America?”

“American propaganda nonsense,” Peggy said, going back to fixing her makeup.  She had never really understood Steve’s insistence on sticking with the Captain America name and uniform, albeit with the latter redesigned for actual fieldwork instead of a stage show.  The shield was useful enough, but he hadn’t had to paint it red, white, and blue and he certainly hadn’t had to let himself be dragged around by General Eisenhower because the Yanks needed to be bucked up from time to time.

Peggy was well aware that he hadn’t had a choice in the matter – she knew Colonel Phillips had gotten into it with General Eisenhower a few times, even though under normal circumstances Phillips liked and respected Eisenhower – but was equally aware that getting dragged back and forth for the American propaganda machine had probably set the SSR back at least three months in the fight against Hydra.

Rose’s expression, visible in the mirror, was a little uncomfortable.  She was as aware as Peggy was that for whatever reason, Captain America mattered to Steve, but knew as well as Peggy did that it wasn’t exactly convenient, at least not for the SSR.  Instead of being able to send Steve off with the Howling Commandos after the remnants of Hydra, the SSR was now getting dragged into the end stages of the European war  Not a bad thing in and of itself – after living through the Blitz and the V-1 and V-2 rocket attacks, Peggy was certainly ready for a little revenge – but with both the 107th and the Commandos redeployed to the front in Germany that they were going to lose some Hydra stragglers.  Either they would get away cleanly or they would be picked up by the Soviets, neither of which was a good option.

Peggy had watched a little of that afternoon’s photoshoot before she had gotten too disgusted with the whole thing and left to do something that was actually productive.  She had expected Steve’s long-suffering familiarity with the process; she hadn’t expected Natasha’s.  Sherman was, she had to admit, going to get some marvelous photographs out of it, the kind of pictures that would end up on film posters and magazine covers.  The idea of being commercialized like that, of being narrowed down to a handful of still images, gave Peggy hives; she had no idea how Steve put up with it.

No.  She didn’t want that.  She never had.

[langernameohnebedeutung]

You mentioned Meredith Vickers from Prometheus in blorbo post and HOLY SHIT, you've thrown me right back in the blorbo trenches. I watched that movie to kill time, and came out of gnawing at my own flesh about (im)perfect daughter (im)perfect son subtext... like, god THIS was my Succession long before Succession graced our screens. I have So Many Blorbo Feelings about her! Please share yours as well

!! But exactly this! Yes!

The thing is, there is this really big focus on the dysfunctional relationship between Weyland and David - but most of the time when I engage with the fandom, Vickers is kind of reduced to this secondary bully when really, she's also a deeply wounded person and her relationship to Weyland and her trauma are at least as complex. Even on the more redditor-side of fandom, I've heard a thousand times "why does it matter that Weyland is her father, how is this an important reveal" and this just tells me that they never noticed her as a character, never really engaged with her as anything other than a plot-device. But if you pay attention to her, to her actions, to her rivalry with David - then finding out that she's Weyland's daughter makes all of that fall into place.

There is this really interesting theme where she tries to be as inhuman as possible - immediately doing push-ups after waking from cryosleep while everyone else is puking their guts out, the deleted scene where she is disgusted/annoyed by Janek's little christmas tree, the flamethrower scene, even her clothing and style at the beginning of the movie - which is why Janek asks her if she's a robot, too, but she's deeply offended by the notion (by the way, I once thought about this one AU idea where it turns out that she is, in fact, a robot, and it is kind of a controlled experiment on Weyland's part and she gets away at the end either with Janek or Shaw and she has to work through that).

Like...literally, she is so fascinatingly robotic at times:

She just desperately wants to be good enough, strong enough to be recognised as a human being and a person (and I think this is also a relevant theme about womanhood, the idea of her trying to be recognised as a person, as a child, as an equal to her "brother", of working harder than your male peers just to be taken seriously, acting colder than them to be taken seriously...)

Generally, despite the grand themes, they really break down to an abusive family situation where both children blame each other and envy each other instead of realising that their parent is neglecting and mistreating them both (Though I think David is less caught in than loop, I just don't think it makes as much difference in his books) But also, there is this one deleted scene where she tells David that "these idiots are about to infect my ship🙄🙄🙄🙄" and I loved this moment where they actually formed a small in-group in her eyes, them vs. the idiots...) Also, I like that as I mentioned, her clothing and style is very "robotic" at the beginning, but you can actually see her look become more "human" as the film progresses and I love that too. (Also I love that David actually plays up his own android-ness when he wants to annoy her like 'cup of tea, ma'am?' after she threatened to kill him. Really making her feel like she just yelled at a roomba). I actually believe that because of her resentment of David, she actually comes close to seeing him as a person - because resenting a device would be pointless - but that idea itself is insane and she would sound insane if she brought it up. So she is stuck working side by side with her fucking nemesis who can always hide behind being a fucking machine. Even stuff like David's obsession with Lawrence of Arabia or dying his hair - for everyone else, that's just a funny robot quirk but for her, it's probably maddening as hell. Especially because she doesn't know if he's doing it on purpose or whether she's starting to imagine things. Especially when he's clearly aware of this and can dial it up and down on purpose when he's feeling vindictive)

And then there is her relationship with Weyland. For one, you have the distance between the two of them. Weyland doesn't mention that she is his daughter in the big recorded hologram speech - he only talks about David (and how soulless he is). She literally has a different last name (is she married? were her parents not married? did she take on a different name to step out of his shadow? In fact, even that she is on board is really telling because if she was his heir, you would assume that she wouldn't accompany such a risky, potentially one-way mission, thereby risking the company legacy)

There is so much resentment between Weyland and her - but also, I genuinely believe that she loves her father (unlike David, who is just programmed to obey him - but who Weyland actually talks to and confides in instead of her). We know Weyland has this extreme god-complex where he wants to be a creator and he wants to archieve godhood for humans - for himself - by showing the Engineers everything he has accomplished and that they should give him immortality in return when he's already dying. And then you have Vickers reminding him that "A king has his reign and then he dies" - in a way, she is his reminder of humanity, his memento mori (his human daughter). She is the only person in the universe who can give him her honest opinion, actually freely criticise him - but at the same time, that only causes him to push her away further because he cannot stand that. She sees him as human and she's the only person who cares about him as a human, as her human father, but because he tries to erase that part of himself and become god, she has to watch him destroy himself and take them all with him. For Weyland, creating David was a crowning moment for him, for the entire human species. That was the moment THEY created life and became equals with the Engineers. And as his daughter, she cannot live up to that, no matter how much power and success she has and now much tea David has to pour for her.

I just think she's neat, okay 😭

[lesbianwithchainsaws]

"send me a character" you get abed and adam faulkner stanheight (from saw was i close?)

Aaaugh!!!!! YES thank you so much!!!!!! I could talk about both of them for weeks!!!

Abed:

First impression: I loved him really early on and he really quickly became my favourite character in Community. The second they showed Abed's short film to Jeff, Britta and his dad, it was all over for me

Current impression: I love Abed even more now. He's probably one of my favourite, most likely even most favourite character ever. He's so so relatable and I could watch Abed just being Abed forever. I honestly am not even sure i could put into words how much Abed's character means to me and how much I love him!

Favorite moment: I'd say all the times he dresses up as a character and acts as that character/just acts as someone else for a bit. I used to do that a bunch when I was younger so I love seeing Abed doing stuff like that, it makes me happy. Especially when it's Inspector Spacetime. Also: the scene where its mentioned that he has a 2 hour long analysis of the Saw movies because that's gotta be the most relatable scene ever made for me

Idea for a story: I have so many. I have already written way too many and have way too many more. So I'll share one which I don't think I've mentioned before: I'd love to write a fic about all the times people call him emotionless or a robot, and just sort of write out how that makes him feel and view himself until he finally decides to tell people to stop calling him that. Because it happens quite often in the show and I want some kind of a moment where he just stands up for himself and puts a stop to it.

Unpopular opinion: umm, I'm not sure if I have one, at least from all the opinions people on tumblr have. For the most part, I agree with a lot of opinions people have of him on here. I think people sometimes overexaggerate some aspects of his character, but that just kind happens in fandoms and its not a big deal.

Favorite relationship: obvious answer, but it's trobed!

Favorite headcanon: okay, this is my own personal headcanon, but I hc that he keeps a notebook not just of people's traits and things he notices about them, but also has a seperate notebook about the movies and shows he's watched. He writes down every show and movie he's seen, main characters' names and actors, and any other info he wants to remember. Mainly this headcanon is just me projecting bc I have a spreadsheet I made for the horror movies I've seen, so I'd like to believe he does something similar!

Okay and Adam:

First impression: I don't remember what my very first impression of him was tbh because I didn't yet have the sawtism on my first viewing of saw. But I did quite like his character.

Current impression: not a single normal thought has entered my brain about Adam. Every time I think about him, I feel the need to scream about him for days. He's such a tragic character and he hides all that behind his snark. And he wanted to live!!! He wanted to live and do more, but he couldn't!!! Adam also has some hilarious and great quotes, which at this point I'll admit I have like memorised because apparently I've just memorised half of Saw.

Favorite moment: oh my god, either the moment that Lawrence says "there's something you're not telling me" and Adam starts listing a bunch of unrelated shit to Lawrence (which includes the iconic "my ex-girlfriend was a feminist vegan punk who broke up with me because she thought I was too angry"). Or the moment he discovers the camera behind the mirror and says the iconic "this is the most fun I've had without lubricant". Or the deleted Saw III scene where he and Amanda interact. I love that scene so so much and I wish they had kept it in.

Idea for a story: not really a story, but I have thought about writing like a character study of some of the characters from saw. Or I guess more like a partial character study, partial what were they like in their daily lives type of thing. I've also thought of doing something like that with Amanda. Idk if I would ever write a full on fanfic with a plot for the saw characters, but character study-like thing would be cool imo

Unpopular opinion: quite a lot of people want him to come back and be alive, but I am fully against that. I love Adam and the "Adam is alive" au's are great, but realistically I don't want him to be alive in the movies. It wouldn't make sense and it just wouldn't work well imo, especially with how his death impacts the other characters and their stories.

Favorite relationship: Adam and Lawrence of course. But I did see one post of a theoretical ship of Adam and Mateo from Saw X (even though they've never met) and that post was pretty cute!! I should look for that post again

Favorite headcanon: gonna be a stereotypical saw fan and say: gay and trans Adam. It's a good headcanon, I think it can definitely make sense canonically and it just fits! Gay and trans Adam is canon to me

[otnesse]

You forgot to mention how Maleficent deliberately, KNOWINGLY cursed a baby to die just because she wasn't invited (with her also implying just beforehand that she might have cursed said baby to die anyways even if she HAD been invited), also issued a manhunt against said infant for the intervening 16 years with it being HEAVILY implied that had her minions actually found even a trace of Aurora before 16 years had passed, never mind Aurora herself (not to mention were smart enough to stop using cradles as a place to search by a certain age), she would have succeeded in actually having Aurora be pricked by the time she was two years old, and abducted the prince and psychologically TORTURED him and planned to keep him a century to potentially engineer rape against Aurora via him a'la Talia the Sun and the Moon (and that's the best case scenario, as the flashbacks showing them being slightly hollow as they leave implied that Maleficent might have just KILLED them by the time their sentence was up). And that's not counting her antics in Maleficent Returns, where she effectively pulled a Demona and petrified the whole kingdom save for Aurora (and the only reason she was exempt from petrification was because the Fairies protective charms pretty much forced Maleficent to exempt her). Heck, forget Hans, she's even worse than Frollo (and quite frankly, I'd argue that Jafar might have been worse than Frollo as well regarding the rape part. At least Frollo had actual reservations regarding his stint with Esmeralda beforehand [just watch Hellfire.], while Jafar immediately decided to use the Genie to force Jasmine to fall for him and even tried to force Genie to break that rule).

And then there's Ursula who managed to curse god knows how many merpeople in rigged deals (heck, a deleted scene even showed she was also not above giving misleading information that made even fulfilling said deals impossible to her clients), outright sabotaged Ariel's chances of success with both F&J capsizing a boat AND her Vanessa stint, and even tried to up and out MURDER Ariel immediately after gaining the Trident, DESPITE promising as part of the contract to not harm Ariel ("Contract or not, I'll...") and a choice comment to Eric when making off with Ariel ("So looong, lover-boy!") when the third sunset happened implied that she may have even slept with Eric while the latter was still brainwashed/hypnotized by her, meaning she raped him. Oh, and spent the whole time manipulating and gaslighting Ariel to undergo that deal as well. And I'd argue she's worse than Frollo ultimately as well (at least Frollo made SURE to raise Quasimodo to adulthood, actually KEPT his end of the bargain when the Archdeacon forced him to raise the guy as penance, made sure he had a dang good job as a bell-ringer for Notre Dame Cathedral, made sure he was well-fed, even made sure to teach him Christianity, even the concept of forgiveness of sins, and did not dare try to break his word until nearing the end of the film.), never mind Hans.

Saying Hans is the most evil and heinous villain when you really think about it is pure exaggeration. Same goes with Frollo, even, and that guy at least did have an actual rap sheet against him regarding attempted genocide and forcing Esmeralda into marrying him (because most if not all of the above villains committed far WORSE crimes than Frollo or Hans EVER did even WITH the genocide bit).

“OMG, Hans is the most violent Disney villain! He was about to go Game of Thrones on Elsa!”

Ahem…. let me bring your attention to Judge Claude Frollo

And this is AFTER he:

killed Quasimodo’s mother by violently kicking her down the stairs after she ran away to protect her child

mercilessly hunted down and executed every Romani he could find.

burned down all of Paris to look for one woman because he had a creepy, predatory obsession with her

ordered a family to be burned alive inside their home

tried to burn Esmeralda at the stake (because she would not sleep with him)

Other things Hans did:

left Anna for dead (not cool bro)

gave out blankets and warm food to cold citizens

Both are great movies, but let’s be real here.

[pastelwitchling]

Hiii,

I have been following you since RNM (I haven’t watched the show after season 2 I think, only occasionally followed some Malex stuff on here) when I saw you posting about the new Percy Jackson show on Disney. I hope I don’t overstep but I have been dying to talk to someone and share my two cents. This is pretty much a rant so feel free to ignore it.

This rant stems mostly from the fact that I expected things to be closer to the plot in the books.

I must say that I am disappointed after so many people hyped up the show. To be honest, I expected more, especially because RR is involved so deeply and critiqued the films so much which let me to believe that he’d be more peculiar about the show (and I guess that’s true, just in a different way). And I agree that while the show does include more actual scenes from the books right down to copying lines directly, they miss a bit of the character of the books. It started strongly and got worse from there. That being said, the show is fine though I am not sure I will stick around for the second season should there be one.

What annoys me the most is - and that is something you touch on regularly, correct me if I am wrong - that they tell more than they show.

In the books, Percy figures out that Mr D is Dionysus, in the show he gets told.

In the books, it’s suggested that Hades is ‘the god who turned’ and if I remember correctly he’s also directly told in the show (again, correct me if I am wrong).

In the books, he figures out who Aunt Em is, in the show he gets told.

In the books he agonises over who of his friends will betray him, keeping the prophecy mostly to himself. In the show he talks about it.

In the books he figures out the time trap himself, they don’t know it before they enter like they do in the movies as you already mentioned.

For me, this not only is boring but it also takes away a big part of Percy’s character imo. He’s smarter than his opponents believe, can put two and two together - at least in the books. To me personally, he’s not the hero he’s in the books. The scene where he surprised me the most was when they were on the Arch and he tricked Annabeth and “sacrificed” himself.

Also, the whole encounter with Aries was much too harmless imo, as was Gabe and the argument Sally had with him (it looked more like a lover’s quarrel to me). Maybe it’s because it’s a Disney show, I honestly don’t know but I miss Percy’s sass and the more heavy topics which were always addressed in the books but never really spelt out (child abuse, abusive relationships in general).

Oh and the solstice part?? Such a shame to change such a big part of the storyline (the pacing, the urgency, the despair) once again.

And that they took away Annabeth’s love for architecture is a crime in itself. It made her much more approachable because the way she talks and races about it in the books is easy to understand for people in fandoms. I don’t feel that in the show.

I’m sorry if this is overstepping a boundary or too negative, so you can just delete if you don’t feel like answering. But I agree with you that we should be allowed to criticise.

Hi. I'm glad you felt comfortable enough to critique with me, so that's mighty kind of you 😂 (I'm not being sarcastic, I know it looks like I'm being sarcastic, but I'm not being sarcastic, I've actually been waiting to be able to talk to someone about this stuff, so my wholehearted thank you.)

Anyway, this is a lot (which is awesome), so I'm just going to go through it bit by bit.

First of all, I don't blame you for not wanting to watch rnm after season 2. Not kidding, I'd deliberated it for a bit after The Episode That Must Not Be Named, and if it wasn't for Alex, I wouldn't have bothered anymore. But anywhodle.

I'm sorry to hear you might not want to watch the second season of pjo. Personally, I enjoy the show for what it is now, and just love Percy Jackson too much to ever stop supporting the adaptations, but I totally understand the disappointment. Honestly, if RR is as involved as I think he is, and this might get me threatened, but that might be the reason the show isn't as strong as it could be. I think a lot of people forget that there's a difference between books and movies/shows. In a book, you can have characters just talking for several pages. In a movie/show, it's boring. I think, again, RR was so focused on not doing what the movies did that he missed the fact that it was at least entertaining because they had Chris Columbus behind the wheel. He directed the first two Harry Potter movies, and I think we can all agree that those movies proved he can do atmosphere and fun. If I hadn't known that a book author was so involved in the show adaptation, I might've been able to guess because a lot of it feels like someone moving the pages to the screen with no consideration in regards to "how do we make this visually interesting?"

What's important to RR seems to be more that they adapt more scenes of the books, which is what the movies didn't always do, rather than keeping things entertaining for such a different medium.

Yes, I definitely think there's more telling than showing, and in some aspects, there's just completely erasing. I've said this before and I'll say it again; if I watched the show before I read the books, I wouldn't have completely understood what was going on, why anybody thinks Percy's the lightning thief, what the quest really is, or even that Percy is a forbidden child. I got ALL of this information super easily from the movie, and the urgency of everything going on, because it knew it had to present all of this information in simple and entertaining ways, and it did. With a few lines, the movie managed to do what the show couldn't in several passages.

I'm not kidding, the way the show just constantly has characters standing there talking and talking and talking, basically taking passages right out of the book, as though that makes it a good adaptation? I couldn't follow half of what they were saying because they mumble their way throughout. No one ever really laughs. I think Percy smiles once in amusement throughout the whole show (the scene with that lizard thing during Capture the Flag).

RR was so upset that they'd raised the ages in the movies to seventeen, but what does it say when the movies starring seventeen year olds are more fun, a lot brighter and more colorful, and faster paced and more ENERGETIC than the adaptation with the kids??

Percy has shown little to no leadership so far, he's just kind of on the sidelines because Annabeth has to be the one to solve the crimes, Annabeth is suddenly the one talking back to the gods, Annabeth is the one taking care of everything. It's like RR's forgotten that this is Percy's hero journey. The entire series takes him on this arc so that he can lead the other demigods into war during the Battle of Manhattan.

Look, all I'm saying is that by the end of the Lightning Thief book, I totally believed that Percy was going to grow into a great hero that other demigods would trust to lead them into battle, but I don't see myself feeling the same way at the end of season one of the show because they've been so busy putting Annabeth in the spotlight that Percy hasn't had much of a role, at least not a role that seems in any way significant for a forbidden child of the Big Three gods.

At this point, it really feels like they could've put any demigod instead of him, and they would've done the same thing!

And yeah, I'm sad that we haven't gotten to see anything of Annabeth's fangirling over architecture, that was her big love! Instead, the show acts like it'd be too childish if she had any... interests? Hobbies? We never see her reading, we never see her admiring any buildings or structures, we never see her being a, you know, twelve-year-old girl.

I don't know, I do enjoy this show, but like I said before, if RR thinks this is the best adaptation of his books, then I'm convinced he hasn't read his own books in far too long.

[thedarkmistress16]

TS4 Rewatch Rant Analysis

You don’t need to care about my opinion; I don’t want you to. But I want to explain why I’m frustrated about the final product in terms of both within the movie and extending to implications of the franchise. I also want to provide methods to improve or fix the building blocks of this movie as how I see the franchise and how these characters should be treated and developed as someone who’s grown along with these films and rewatched them more than I can ever hope to count. I’d figure I would post this here to get my ideas out there and clear my mind of these thoughts (also writing a fix-it fic is something too time consuming for me rn). I hope, at the very least, that my passionate word vomit is entertaining to someone.

Will be tagging spoilers since this film is still fairly new and I’m not a complete asshole. This will be a mix of analytical criticing and shitposty jokes for the purpose of harsh hyperbole and humor, so a complete mess all around. This is also stupidly long, been in my drafts for a long time so this timing may seem odd, and there is genuine introspection at the tail end of this. I don’t absolutely despise this film or want to run it into the ground, to preface.

I initially had very mixed feelings about Toy Story 4; I couldn’t tell if I liked or disliked it because the characters looked stunning, Bo Peep was different, there were references to previous films scattered throughout, and Woody’s choice had me still bawling a few weeks later when rewatching the scene. It was only after popping in the Blu-ray film in my newly-acquired collection set, understanding commentaries and deleted scenes, and watching other reviews I came to realize what worked and didn’t work for me in the context of the film’s franchise.

To put simply, the positives of this film are it’s attention to detail and overall animation quality (lighting and other effects) and that it’s funny. It seems these two things are unanimous and I do wholeheartedly agree with them. But it’s also why I believe this movie’s existence is to showcase quality with little to no substance. Which is pretty offensive considering the catalog of films that made a fourth one possible had care in tackling problems and characters in an intriguing and consistent way, and these are all stories about toys at their core, which still hold up today for human scenarios. But with Toy Story 4? Having complex and compelling characters with purpose and themes with development? Nah, animation preeettyyyyy and forky funnnyyy lol.

Expand What You Already Know. Or Don’t, I Guess.

This movie likes to forget the foundation it already has and decides to start from scratch, using valuable resources to create new character designs, motivations, backstories, and relationships when most of the work is already done for you. It’s majorly sitting in the RV, realistically doing nothing but taking up space (until the plot says so), yet systematically crippling this movie and the others before it by said existence. These additional toys that are background characters in this film should’ve either had development or a significant purpose in the film more than the ending or random RV shenanigans, or not been included at all because they clutter up the film (and I hate to talk about these characters like this as I do love them but that’s how it is).

In this case, less is more, especially if your main focus is on one to a few characters over the entire cast- being forky, woody, bo, and the new toys. This leads into a discussion of Bonnie having too many toys at this point which is one reason besides a child’s retention rate that results in the neglect of Woody, but the disregarding Woody after Andy’s speech about him meme isn’t the worst issue I’ve come across in this film (and I really don’t blame the girl).

Look How They Massacred My Boy. For Shame.

I didn’t need to rewatch this film again to realize that Buzz was done dirty in this movie. Going as far to say character assassination is amusing, but might not be as true in this sense. Buzz has no reason not to know what his inner voice/subconscious is and it’s occurrence here really undervalues the preceeding movies regarding the character and the thought behind his actions. There is no reason to have Buzz act deluded or ignorant to such common concepts in the world he inhabits as it insults the establishment and progression of his character up to and in Toy Story 4, and I will not blindly accept him as comic relief anymore (that’s what Rex is for and I love him for it).

I am well aware of the people in charge milking Buzz’s deluded state in every Toy Story movie (plus some Toy Story Treats) beacuse it’s funny. I laughed at it too as a dumb kid enthralled by these toys moving, talking, and have personalities. The schmoe and Hawayai jokes are still enjoyable to me, it’s cute. The problem here is there’s more to Buzz Lightyear than just ‘haha silly (deluded) space toy go brrrr,’ and not just in Toy Story 4 does this happen. Buzz Lightyear is tactical, (basically the whole TS2 rescue mission he started, using Rex’s tail to escape the garbage bag and coming up with the caterpiller room transom escape in TS3) intelligent (backed by academy training, shown in his fighting moves, instincts, jargon, etc. in TS1 and relates to last trait) a leader, (steps up into the leadership role in lieu of Woody in TS2  and TS3 or co-lead with him in the TS3 meeting), determined (to save his friends in TS2 and TS3), more emotionally mature than Woody (see all of Toy Story 1 and compare their arcs; Buzz’s turmoil is more self-contained/depricating than Woody’s, as the cowboy decides to take out his jealousy on others and Buzz, almost murdering the space ranger who only ever attacked Woody once and it wasn’t even during his existential crisis), discovering his worth as Andy’s toy and Woody’s friend (relaying Woody’s words back at him in TS2), embracing his role and family, having a crush on Jessie and supporting her through her trauma and fears, and I can go on.

If you want to make Buzz funny without taking away his personality and growth, have more shit like in the sequel, where a toy-savvy og Buzz plays off of those who think they are real like fake belt Buzz. I’m basically asking for the Bootleg Buzz deleted scene here not only because it is stupidly hilarious in concept, but it also lends additional world-building possibilities like a toy’s personal beliefs/perceptions and human/toy dynamics that hasn’t been explored further in this franchise’s film installments (See: Small Fry). Also, having Buzz saying space jargon in the context of his background knowledge always puts a smile on my face and you don’t have to dumb down this character to achieve that. :)

Is This What They Call... A Glowup? Cuz This Ain’t It, Chief.

My main gripe about Bo’s character is that she lost the personality she had in Andy’s house and her alterations go against the established canon of the shepherdess. More specifically, the strong, go-getter Bo Peep the creators are pushing for here doesn’t feel justified as an understandable change in universe because of the decision to portray her as a simpler or less-realized version of her future self in Molly’s room and extensively implies she’s always been or wanted to be a free spirit and leader when she’s never expressed this otherwise. Her new design isn’t as important to complain about in comparison here but I do find it odd and interesting how her eyes were made bigger in her redesign (like doe eyes) yet she’s rougher around the edges and serious personality-wise, whereas her initial design had sharp eyes similar to a human that enhanced her qualities like flirting and sassiness and the idea of porcelain that is smooth but sharp.

Woody’s surprise at seeing Bo all these years later would be much more believable if her personality initially reflected who she is in Toy Story 1 and 2 during the opening flashback; flirty, empathetic, gentle, and a general overseer of the room that watches others take charge to avoid chipping or shattering as she’s made of porcelain and has limited movement by design. Having so much agency and independence in TS4 may subvert expectations, but feels jarring after knowing this context in a back-to-back viewing of all four films. She’s comparatively more bitter, no-nonsense, and world-weary here, which I get because survival and harsh reality of the world, but she should have a lot more chipping than shown if she’s getting as much playtime as she’s boasting and desiring, especially the rough ones as the kids are random (unlike the deleted storyboard version of the playground). This really feels like a different character and I really don’t believe she and her sheep would’ve lasted this long or have this much fluidity, ingenuity, and agency as the movie claims. Some, possibly, but while humans can train and adapt their bodies for flexibility, strength, etc. to survive, toys cannot. They are stuck in their forms and Bo moves slow as per her build and material of which she was constructed, so she can only adapt so much to the rough lifestyle that is being a lost toy that wants to be played with from time to time.

The Lamp Life short tells me she wants more than, well, lamp life, with the intro concept to non-toys coming to life by a child’s imagination in TS4 support this and her possible in canon reason for existence since TS1. But the short is not Toy Story 4 and past Bo never expressed this in past films. She was really just there as a background character for Woody and never alluded to any dislike for her life or any existential crisis due to that initial purpose of being Woody’s girlfriend and nothing else (not even that initially because of Barbie and copyright so supportive side character to be generous). At the very least the creators of this movie could’ve respected Bo Peep in a way that did not completely rewrite her during a time in which the canonical characterization being shown of her is blatantly false (flashback opening scene).

Furthermore, a viewer shouldn’t feel the need to watch a short (Lamp Life) to get the full context behind Bo’s story after Andy because the movie glosses over those details and moves on like no long-time viewer of Toy Story is curious after her “return.” Details which could’ve helped Bo and Woody have a quiet moment to bond and connect over as they share experiences of being lost instead of being treated as an afterthought (Bo’s retelling of her “Lamp Life” to Woody took place after the conclusion of the fourth installment- Woody even says “Oh yeah, what happened after all that time?”- stating he didn’t even think to ask her about her past in detail during the movie at any point and Bo never explains it until someone else brings it up it in the short film- Giggles. This is something that should’ve been addressed way earlier if Bo is supposed to be one of the main characters in the film, hence, this is an afterthought to the creators and a wasted opportunity).

In addition, if they wanted to have Bo Peep undergo a character change that logically made sense, they could’ve lifted over traits from her original self to her lost toy character, such as her flirtiness for ex. Not only was it played for comedy in both the original Toy Story films (mainly concerning her reactions and interactions to/with the protagonists- moving buddy comment with Buzz and contact with and kisses for Woody in TS1 and TS2), it also showed how much she cared about Woody (wanting Woody to see how much Andy misses him in TS1). She was also a little sassy in her expressions and exchanges with Woody, too. Exploring how their relationship was established and/or moments they shared outside of what the audience had already seen for Toy Story 4 would help not only further develop both characters in a reasonable and new fashion, but aid the audience in getting attached to them on another level, thus rendering the couple’s reconnection years later all that more impactful and important. If Toy Story 4 was about the romance of Woody and Bo as old, lost loves reuniting, this movie could’ve really sold me on its existence, considering its content that was never fully realized even with Buzz and Jessie, who are in the awkward, blushing, early phases of dating (they might not even be officially together canonically at this point, and Woody and Bo’s relationship of comfortability would lend a great contrast to this).

It was hella cute to see the shepherdess and the sheriff together and having playful and sweet exchanges in the first two movies. While I understand that time can change a person and how they think of others, especially how memories can be associated with different emotions from introspection and how that person evolves and sees others in different lights, I find it hard to believe that Woody and Bo never once had a kiss on screen in Toy Story 4, nor had any substantial romantic chemistry from either side. It was my understanding in the original films that these two were established as a romantic couple (her existence is to solely be Woody’s girlfriend as said by the original Toy Story commentary) and it is fact that she has kissed him before (again, TS1 and intention to kiss in TS2) and can be seen approaching him to comfort him with words and touches (Woody’s favoritism issues in TS1 and his nerves about cowboy camp going bad in TS2- these moments are cut off by jokes like Potato Head’s comment or Rex’s tug of war with Bo’s sheep, but there’s enough time established with them to be treated as emotionally impactful moments, albeit small).

Woody and Bo being lost toy buddies doesn’t feel nearly as emotionally impactful as a romantic relationship would. Neither character said anything about their past regarding their past romance or even bring it up in Toy Story 4, just reminiscing like they’re old buddies. The most we get is Woody staring at her in two instances (top of the carnival and watching lights in the antique store), and even then it isn’t explicitly said if Woody still harbors romantic feelings or not. Bo commenting on loving Woody’s loyalty after their argument is said when he’s not present, and I don’t think she ever said it to him directly afterwards when they did meet up again, which further hinders their opportunities at expressing their feelings. It feels like one friend-zoned the other off-screen because of how awkward they are around each other and act nothing more than old friends tiptoeing around each other. Buzz and Bo meeting again are arguably more friendly in this way than Woody and Bo are.

The deleted scene of Woody finding Bo again after so long treats their originally established dynamic better than the scene in the film. In that storyboard, both characters have the time to take in and realize who they are seeing as they stare at one other, assess their emotions and memories, and fully act upon those raw feelings in real time as if they are their lost in their own world by embracing. This reunion is cut short but as stated earlier in examples, both characters are given time for this moment to occur organically (within the circumstances), and the insight into Woody’s memories helps visualize his feelings for her through the times spent together, enhancing the quality of the nonverbal aspect of storytelling... or storyboards, in this case.

In comparison to the final film reunion, Woody and Bo have to worry about other kids seeing them move and talk in the playground with their minds already preoccupied with the world around them and toy rules instead of meeting each other again after so long. By the time they get to a safe place to converse, it’s nowhere near as heartfelt and/or important as the encounter should have been and the action of Bo brushing off Woody’s shoulder feels like a visualization of earlier- sweeping a potentially emotional moment under the rug. Not to mention Woody and Bo are in toy mode when they see each other for the first time, preventing the audience from witnessing their first, raw reactions (I can’t explain how good this deleted scene is it has so much potential and I got emotional over pencil drawings of these toys and what it implies and leads to you if it was explored and developed more you don’t understand-). The lack of romance wouldn’t be as much of an issue if their relationship didn’t have an impact on the story’s conclusion and other characters by extension, namely Woody.

Was it Hoes before Bros or Self Before Bros?

I finally understand now why I don’t like the ending of Toy Story 4 and how it made me cry like a little bitch again like the third installment did. It’s upsetting to me because I don’t buy Woody’s decision to stay with Bo and leave his friends and his new kid behind.

I totally get that Woody may have chosen to be a lost toy because he feels no more purpose outside of Andy, and can’t let go of him, and maybe Bo symbolizes a connection to those early and simpler days (even though she’s entirely different now). With that in mind, I do like his self-appointed purpose of guiding forky as his development transitions from wanting to always be the favorite to using that knowledge and humility to help a new favorite toy adjust and understand its role for a kid and accepting that he is still loved regardless at the end of the day and has his family through infinity and beyond. But Woody abandons his new and old family for a new life, throwing out the whole loyalty to your kid aspect and not wanting to see Bonnie grow up. Woody’s decision in TS4 is basically if he stuck with the Tokyo choice in Toy Story 2. I like how TS4 wants to challenge the franchise’s conceptions on toys and their purpose, but it’s also insulting at the same time, attempting to demolish and reconstruct original elements. 

Alternate Routes.

After being tossed away by Hannah, either have Gabby Gabby a) realize she doesn’t want nor need a child to play with her to be happy and embrace the lost toy life, or b) double down on her insecurities and blame Woody forever getting her hopes up in the first place, challenging his ideals of a toy’s purpose and sense of loyalty toward a child, becoming an anguished, heartbroken, antagonist going after Woody in anger or stubbornly stewing away in the curio again.

Have Woody realize he doesn’t have to be the favorite or constantly played by his kid as proof he is loved and wanted by Bonnie, possibly overexaggerating his fear of abandonment earlier on. Have him rejoin the toys with a new sense of duty and belonging that is similar to his actions as a lost toy, but watching over forky’s adjustment and staying loyal to his family and friends with Bonnie picking him up and playing with him again similar to the alternate scrapped ending (possibly with his voicebox still removed because that was so heartwarming). This can also lend a nod to Woody’s struggle with being damaged and fixed by Andy in TS2. In TS4, this can be extended to Bonnie not only reassuring Woody she still loves and wants him despite being broken, but even if he’s unfixable.

Let Woody become a lost toy for his re-connection with Bo (emotionally and romantically stronger on both sides) for the “he’s not lost” line and the infinity and beyond line even separated, as let’s say that because he’s found someone he didn’t realize he’s missed so dearly due to fixating on Andy, he doesn’t want to leave her again not knowing if he’ll ever see her again and because he can’t let go of the past (my least fave solution but yes to toy romance and concept of lost toys having a purpose besides playtime meaning in each other awwe it’s too corny).

So... What’s the Point?

It doesn’t help that the movie gets confused about what message it’s really going for - toy independence but also stay loyal to your kid. In the deleted scene intro to “She’s the One” in Toy Story 4, Josh Cooley stated that he wanted to avoid Woody not changing as a character and essentially resetting the movie back to the beginning where Woody stays with Bonnie and the toys, despite him liking this ending which had come close to being very impactful and emotional. The more I think about this clip, the worse it sounds. Woody can absolutely be in the same place and change as a character at the same time, like overcoming his attachment to Andy by being there for his new kid who wrote her name on his boot like Buzz and Jessie, or wanting to continually guide and support forky as Bonnie’s favorite toy from his experience and knowing he is still loved and with the other toys. A movie can end with the characters physically in the same positions as the beginning, but with learned lessons and values that imply or confirm different actions in their future like bettering themselves aka staying true to Woody’s character and lending an interesting contrast to their earlier positions in the film, Josh Cooley. Similar visuals with different context behind them can be very powerful.

I really don’t understand why Josh Cooley and co. didn’t embrace their initial ideas because I would love to see them explored and he clearly wanted to include (at least some of them) in the final product. Editor Lee Unkrich of Toy Story 1 has said it is hard to cut things out in a film that you really love, worked hard on, and feel important to the story and characters. But you have to remove it or feel like you must in case the scene is affecting the film’s pacing/flow, etc. in referencing the Woody and Buzz bonding scene in Sid’s room, which Unkrich regrets shortening in hindsight.

But this also doesn’t mean you should throw every idea you have on the cutting room floor either, especially if it serves the story, characters, or plot in a beneficial way (hopefully all three). Josh Cooley’s Hungry Hippos idea and among other storyboard concepts I’ve expressed here are all really cool ideas and I wish they would’ve been explored as these are hinted at in previous films like Toy Story 3 and the vending machine scene, which can be developed further with the underworld of toys and gambling via board games concept. If you are passionate about what you’re making and have fun with it, the results will be great, something John Lasseter says at the end of the Toy Story 2 bonus features, and I fully believe that the things Cooley and others wanted to do could’ve worked out if they had that same drive to create and entertain while telling an engaging story that aligned with the characters and their journeys. 

Seeing the scarce amount of bonus features in the Toy Story 4 bonus disk genuinely broke my heart. I’m not sure if they used practically all their generated ideas in the final film or had close to none in the first place to expand the world and rules of toys compared to the last films, but it’s a damn shame regardless to see little to no creativity in this product that has so much more unexplored potential and creative ideas waiting to be immortalized with the ogs of animation in film besides visual quality. Of course I know that Toy Story as a franchise will come to an end eventually, as “toys don’t last forever,” and another franchise may develop these things better or more extensively with toys or otherwise, but I would’ve appreciated at the very least, to have a Toy Story series that either stopped while it was ahead, or be fully treated with all the passion, enjoyment, and respect it initially had as its creators did while enriching the world and lives of these toys to its full potential.

also,

How dare they break this duo up wtf. To infinity and Beyond? more like my waterhole has been poisoned, snakes are in all my boots, buzz lightyear is not coming to my rescue, and the mission is fucked. smh. truly the end of an era.

[danpuff-ao3]

A Minor Problem

At the age of 11, I discovered fanfiction.

It was wholly accidental. 11 year old Danni didn't know what fanfiction was. I was using my allotted 30 minutes of internet time wisely: Googling random Harry Potter stuff (obsessed fangirl that I was.) I joined a fairly innocent roleplay site during one such search. But my innocent roleplaying soon ended when I clicked on an explicit Drarry fanfic.

Where were my parents? Good question. In fairness, around this time my mom was pregnant and we were gearing up to move states. (Which is how I remember what time period this took place in; not sure I'd have recalled my age otherwise.)

Did they ever find out what I spent my time reading and writing? Maybe! My personal fanfiction was saved to the family computer. And in my earliest days I didn't know how to, or think to, delete my search history.

What is important to note, though, is this: my parents never hid my siblings or myself from any media.

I grew up watching horror films. All manner of horror films. (Violence, gore, nudity, sex.) We listened to all sorts of music. (Profanity, sex, violence.) I was also an avid reader from a young age. I inhaled books in a frenzy. My mom gave me Flowers of the Attic (child neglect and abuse, underage sex, incest, murder) before I discovered fanfic. As a preteen, my grandmother gave me a book called She's Come Undone (domestic abuse, mental illness, rape, eating disorders, abortion.) I read Lolita in junior high. I probably don't need to explain that one.

Explicit slash fiction wasn't so different as to shock or horrify me, but it was a unique experience. It opened my eyes in many ways.

I was always a creative person. (No one ask me about the spy novels I wrote at ages 7 and 8.) I was always deeply invested in stories. (Harry Potter, my longtime love.) That I found find more Harry Potter stories!! That I could create my own, even??? There was a whole world to explore!

I might also mention that I was born and raised in the Bible Belt in the good ole U.S. of A. Sex education was barely there. Hardly an education at all. I'd learned more from sex scenes in horror films and hundreds of smut fics. (I don't actually recommend using fanfic as a guidebook, but it can be a good starting point for what to research and explore.)

I learned about the LGBT community. I'd never even heard of gay people before fanfiction. I learned about kinks. I saw many topics explored in deeper, more meaningful ways than any traditional media. Self harm, abuse, homophobia, rape, etcetera.

You can argue, if you want, that minors shouldn't be exposed to some things.

But I'll tell you what my mother told me, when reflecting upon our childhood: "I didn't want to shield you from anything. The world is a big, scary place. At least I could be with you, and talk to you."

She never gave us overt lessons. But I didn't need a lecture after Texas Chainsaw Massacre to know murder was wrong. I knew that monsters weren't real, but danger was. I learned there were specific words only adults could use, that I could say when I was older. And that sex was for grown ups, too.

I never drank, I never did drugs. I never skipped school, or sneaked out of my house. I didn't steal. I didn't cheat on tests, or boyfriends. I was a good kid. And I've been a fairly tame adult, as far as real life and real actions go.

You can argue, if you want, that minors shouldn't be exposed to some things. And I'm not saying everyone should raise their kids the way I was raised. But it was hardly awful, what I went through.

It was never fiction that hurt me.

It was real people, in real life, and the real actions they took against me that hurt me.

Through fandom, I read and wrote fanfiction for Harry Potter. I was involved in online roleplays for Twilight. I made friends all over the world.

I saw a post yesterday complaining about "kids today." How the internet ruined us. How no one should have so much access to information. I disagree.

I thrived.

Who would I be today without my experiences? Not so open-minded, I think, nor so knowledgeable. Lacking awareness of other people, other cultures, other ways of living and loving. Without seeing how much joy and pleasure could exist in this world, or how much darkness and cruelty. My mind turned a thousand different ways. There was so much variety in the fandom world. And so much potential for me to unravel my own thoughts and feelings. To further push the bounds of my imagination and abilities.

My world is all the richer, and all the brighter, for these past nineteen years in fandom.

I learned.

I learned not only about others, but about myself. I learned what sorts of content I enjoyed reading. What sorts of content I enjoyed writing (which, funnily enough, can be different things.) I learned basic coding. I learned about Microsoft. I learned how to troubleshoot computer issues, and internet issues. I eventually learned how to clear a browser history. I learned how to fine-tune engine searches. I learned how to back away from content I didn't like, and how to recover from content that bothered me.

I fell down research rabbit holes related to stories I read. Is this a real town? Is that a real item? I learned bits of Latin, and the importance of lube. I learned about safewords. And polyamory. I figured out what was possible, and what wasn't. The different ways people could think, and feel.

In my early to mid twenties I read a fic with a demisexual character. I did my research. I joined Facebook groups. I interacted with others. I spent years listening and learning and sitting with myself, and embracing my asexual identity.

My Best Friend had a different upbringing than I did. Her parents shielded her from the world. They were deeply religious. They were very strict. Her parents never gave her the sex talk. She learned about sex for the first time in our small town, conservative high school. Her first experience with gay people was her twin coming out of the closet in junior high. She believed in Santa Claus until high school, from our peers discussing the subject in class. She learned about asexuality from me, in our twenties, and from our conversations, learned more about herself.

In our early years, her parents called me a bad influence. I wore short skirts and I made crude jokes. I was watching Saw when she couldn't watch PG-13 films at 13.

Best Friend is one of the kindest people I know. She's deeply compassionate, and very open-minded. She is primed to learn from others, and willing to have her mind changed. She is one of the best people I know.

Being protected from media never protected her, though. Because there are still real people out there, who really hurt her.

We're 30 now. There are still topics to this day I'm surprised to find Best Friend has never heard of. I'll mention a subject in conversation. She asks me questions.

We're 30 now, and despite different upbringings, we're in similar places. We don't party. Neither of us had a "wild" stage. We both have stable jobs and stable relationships. We've been best friends for eighteen years. She indulges in very heterosexual, very vanilla smut. I read all manner of darkfic, whumping, and dead dove.

She doesn't judge me for it.

She never did.

She's known since we were 13, when I boldly and enthusiastically informed our friend group of my fandom world. I told them all about my deep love of Snarry. I won't say they weren't surprised, and that they didn't lowkey judge me, but they loved and accepted me all the same.

Best Friend shares none of my fandom preferences. We're not in the same fandom. We don't ship the same ships. We don't read the same types of stories. Her stomach would roil if she were forced to read the stories I read.

But no one's forcing her.

I tell her about my projects, and about my accomplishments, and she's happy for me. She's supportive.

No amount of "problematic" content turned me into a monster. None of Best Friend's shelter protected her from monsters.

No one and nothing will protect you from the world. We can't expect it. Life is big and wild and strange. And beautiful. And horrible. It is the responsibility of our guardians to guide us. And our responsibility to learn and grow. To study and explore.

But if all you know is how to hate and hunt, well...you have a lot left to learn.

[all-seeing-ifer]

hi, ok, this is kinda weird and out of the blue but im a musical theater student and I've been assigned to sing Astonishing from little women and i need to fill this whole chart about how I personally relate to the song. So first of all A+ for my teacher for nailing it with the character choice for me but before i start rambling to him about the whole Jo is Aroace and Trans Agenda i kinda wanted to have "backup"? not as in he would shut me down but just because I want to be ready when he asks questions and to show him im not alone in thinking this, I was wondering if you have any good essays about this? even like, your own character analysis! im just looking for more opinions and views so I have a strong case

:D oh this is absolutely not weird I actually feel super super honoured that you decided to come to me to ask about it!! Hopefully I can be of help - I’m afraid I don’t have anything in the way of like. actual academia talking about it, because I’ve just never really looked into the academia around Little Women (though that would certainly be interesting to look at…)

I can link you to a few different posts that might be helpful though! It was about time I made like a masterlist of queer Jo posts anyway. Also fair warning some of these are specifically about the 2019 film which may not be super helpful to you in terms of talking about the musical and source material but I’d figured I’d include them for the sake of comprehensiveness.

Posts about the book and earlier adaptations:

An argument for Jo being aroace based on the book

Some moments of trans subtext I noticed in the 1994 film

My list of Jo moments (Joments?) that I think read as incredibly aro (this one actually directly references the musical and the song Astonishing!)

Not specifically an aro Jo post but some of my analysis of Jo and Laurie’s dynamic that was very much informed by the idea of Jo being aro

My argument for Jo being ace based on the book

Examples of moments in the book that can be read as Jo being trans

Analysis of how Jo’s experience (in both the book and 2019 film) mirrors the experiences of many aro people

Posts about the 2019 film:

My analysis of how viewing Jo as aroace fits with the themes of the film

My thoughts on Jo’s motivations in the 2019 film

General discussion of queer subtext throughout different versions, but mainly the 2019 film

Analysis of queer subtext in the film more generally - focused on the reading of Jo as a lesbian so not strictly relevant to what you asked but well worth reading! And y’know. overlapping experiences and all that.

My analysis of the film’s ending in view of Jo being aro

More of my commentary on the film’s proposal scene (not specifically about aroace Jo but that reading is relevant)

An argument for Jo being aroace based on the film (but with some points that are also relevant to earlier versions)

My comparison of different versions of the proposal scene and what gives the 2019 version such an aro feeling

My evidence for Jo being aro based on the film

Another argument for Jo being aro based on the film, again with some points that apply to earlier versions

And of course, what discussion of a classic fictional character being aroace would be complete without a contribution from Mx David J Bradley! Would highly recommend watching their segment in Tara Mooknee’s video on amatonormativity. Again, they deal with the 2019 film specifically but aside from the discussion of the ending most of the stuff they talk about is also applicable to earlier versions, and it’s definitely one of the most comprehensive arguments I’ve seen for aroace Jo! Also it’s where my header image came from, so you know it’s a good video!

Sorry for how long it took me to answer this I hope at least some of this is useful! I found surprisingly few posts about the trans subtext; I definitely have seen some in the past but either they’ve been deleted or it’s just tumblr search acting up again.

[logicheartsoul]

I may be very late here, but I was watching the first ep of TFATWS (because I hadn’t watch the first ep, I joined in a livestream watch a friend hosted halfway around episode 3 with NO context of any of the characters or the world whatsoever except for a very general sense of who is who, and even then it was like ??? I’ll just enjoy this ride with my friends here) and (sort of) rewatching the second ep.

And it’s been at least over a month since the finale aired (and somehow I ended up managing to binge read over 800K+ words of fanfiction plus watch CA:TWS and CA:CW) and... there’s just. Something that struck me.

Obviously, there’s 6 months of time between Endgame (which I had watched before, casually, and also through my dash, so I know marginally what’s going on, if by osmosis) and the start of the tv series (and also...you can tell they shot the boat scenes first (even though in the behind the scenes interviews Sebastian Stan actually admits episode 5 was the first to be filmed) because only during winter time could you wear jackets and long sleeves in Louisiana... lool Those scenes would’ve been something else if they filmed in southern heat) and while there is a lot of stuff they don’t say explicitly in terms of Sam and Bucky’s relationship, there’s still...a lot to think about.

Like the fact that there’s a deleted moment of Bucky actually being in the Smithsonian when Sam makes that speech. He’s all the way in the back but he doesn’t put a hat on (and his outfit kinda reminds me of that end scene in TWS) so if Sam actually...looked, he could’ve seen him. I get why they probably deleted it because they wanted to show us how Bucky and Sam are like “apart”/separate from each other and how they’re faring in their lives and how they would end up reuniting in episode 2 but it’s like, what’s going on here. Does Sam actually know or is he’s just focused on his speech and lost in his feelings (which is totally understandable)? How does Bucky take it -- resignation but feels he has to “move on” and be ok with it or? From watching the first two eps, he’s only truly pissed when Walker ends up taking the shield (and especially with watching Walker’s interview where he claims to “know” Steve and also see him like a “brother”, which, the only people who can claim that about Steve are the Avengers and Bucky, so lmao) and that’s when he ends up confronting Sam about it, after ghosting Sam for ages. (Just HOW LONG did he ghost him??? Because 6 months is a VERY long time!)

But as I was watching episode 2, there’s... a line that just. I don’t understand why it’s there. It’s right before Sam is about to board the plane, and he says, “It’s over”. That could be in reference in SO many things! The conversation? The whole “I’m not taking up the mantle and I can’t just go and ask to be Captain America and take the shield back”? Something else between them, like the end of their friendship or if they had something, anything before this moment??? (Especially when Sam makes one of those jovial/joking comments about “nice reunion”, jeez Sam)

That’s. Because if you take into everything else that happened between them, just how freaking close did they get? There’s so much we could speculate about the depth of their friendship (or even romantic relationship) between after TWS (two years you try to find a guy...) til that moment in Endgame... anyhow. That’s an entirely another post for another day.

What was interesting was that Torres didn’t really act surprised when Bucky was there -- and the way they not only moved in sync but the way Bucky just unconsciously goes to get the comm pieces and put it in his ear and it’s just like... Sam has been working with the Air Force for 6 months on certain missions, and obviously has a working friendship with Joaquin. I think it’s very easy to assume that perhaps Bucky in the beginning did work with them too, maybe not often, but enough times, to know each other and how this works. What kind of things, who knows. 

(Also, it really delights me just how much Bucky actually does know how to use modern technology, especially some advanced stuff, and I can imagine him doing that kind of thing on missions too if necessary. Even if he does only have a “flip phone”. Which makes me wonder, does he have another phone, like a smartphone, or does he do the dating apps thing with his tablet?)

And a tangent to that, when the hell would Bucky actually have a moment to actually have steadfast opinions about redwing???? It would make sense if he did some missions with Sam beforehand.

(Also. Sam doing some engineering on redwing? Sam AND Joaquin being polyglots? Why is this going underappreciated???? There’s “field repairs” and then there’s knowing how to fix technology that’s “Stark-level” as Joaquin claims.)

Maybe being new to all this info has allowed me to see this with fresh eyes because it’s interesting to think about. 

I read a meta post earlier today that was talking about how despite the Winter Soldier being very efficient about “eliminating his targets” (and anyone in the way), that Sam of all people managed to evade that twice. The first time could’ve just been a fluke, after all, the Winter Soldier just needed Falcon out of the way but he just ripped his wing, he didn’t think Sam had a parachute, or possibly thought at that height Sam would’ve died anyway. And then, when he got activated again in CW, all the other people are (assumed) dead when Steve goes down to the cell, but somehow, even with a throw by the chin, Sam isn’t actually dead.

Which really makes me wonder, why Sam of all people? Other than plot reasons/armor, was there something unconscious going on? Or is it because Sam has some association with Steve being with friend, and thus some part of him is like no, I can’t kill him?

There’s just... a lot of implied depth with their friendship (and more, if you ship them) that just makes me go how far does it go because obviously we see that deepening til the end of the series (episode 6 is just. that ending is so soft, hello) but when you pair the “it’s over” comment, with the scene in episode 3 where Bucky pleads with Sam to “do this [that whole thing with Zemo], for me” it’s just. There is some untold story there and we’re all itching for it.

I could honestly go on (there was a lot of nonverbal/visual things I picked up and also thoughts about parallels and other comments I was thinking while watching, and also a lot of thoughts about Sarah & Sam’s relationship, because that nuanced sibling relationship was great even if I wish we saw MORE UGH) but this is a rambly mess and I had to get some thoughts out but. Yeah. Never thought I’d be here but this show proved me wrong (well, actually it was the fics I read that got me here coz I was like... hey, i wanna see the quality of the best fics and well. I read one, and then read more to see if it was a fluke or not and then somehow I inadvertently got hooked).