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skyflyinginaction · 4 years ago

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MDSZ Name Meaning Explanations

Wow MDSZ has intricate naming: there are a lot of interesting meanings that fit very well with the characters!

One thing I realized when I researched names is that Chinese names, like Japanese names, are filled with a lot of nuances that have to do with the characters themselves and their role in the story. The character’s names subtly explain their roles and personality in the story.

These are the characters I noticed are the ones that don’t have a lot of posts about their names. I decided I am going to do a post on the characters whose name meanings are not much talked about in the fandom.

This post is heavily inspired by thisworldgodonlyknows who made a post explaining the meaning of the names from one of MXTX works and what it has to do with corresponding with the characters.

MXTX’s names for her characters in her works seem to be chosen intuitively. This makes sense because the names she chooses have a lot to do with both the characters and their arc in the story.

I won’t be doing any explanations on Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji, Jiang Cheng, and Jiang Yanli

because they already had more than enough metas on them. I’m not a Chinese speaker, so although I will explain my research to the best of my ability in this post, take it with a grain of salt.

Mo Xuanyu (莫玄羽)

Mo Xuanyu’s entire name is a subtle reference to his background in the story.

His surname Mò/莫 means "do not, is not, can not" or "there is none who -“

The character in his surname is used to refer to saying something that is puzzling, baffling or impossible to explain in the Chinese language.

This would make sense when talking about Mo Xuanyu since all we know about him is that he's one of Jin Guangshan’s many illegitimate children. Once a disciple of the Jin Clan until his expulsion due to his homosexuality and harassment of the Jin sect leader Jin Guangyao, his expulsion resulted in more abuse at the hands of his family. The abuse he suffered caused his mind to mentally deteriorate, producing a vengeful side of his personality which led him to take up demonic cultivation leading him to perform the body offering ritual to bring Wei Wuxian back to get revenge on his family for the abuse he suffered from.

We don’t know an awful lot about him or his personality other than his background so this makes him come off as very mysterious.

The character in his given name is Xuán/玄 means "black/mysterious”

The character Xuán/玄 is another character to refer to the color black in a specific context in Chinese but when this character is used it also has negative connotations. The symbolism that black is associated within Chinese culture is destruction, evil, disasters, sadness, and suffering; it is considered an unfortunate color. The symbolism for the color black goes very well with Xuanyu as a Character in his role. The bad fortune aspect could reference how he was expelled from the Jin sect, his suffering under the abuse of the Mo family, and wishing for revenge on them for the abuse he suffered under wishing destruction on them. Black the color of evil this can refer to his interest in demonic cultivation and his connection to Wei Wuxian who practiced demonic cultivation donned black clothes and was called evil by the cultivation world.

Black is another way to refer to yin because yin has the color black. Wei Wuxian’s birth name Wei Ying comes from yin as in yin and yang the character Ying (嬰) from Wei Wuxian birth name comes from Ying ling or infant spirit in Chinese used to refer to the spirits of dead fetuses Which is a possible nod to his demonic cultivation. Ying means infant it can also come from yin as in ghost, death, and evil a subtle reference to he brings Wei Wuxian back through the body offering ritual.

The second character in his given name yǔ/羽 means “feather" (羽) is the character is used for “immortal" or "ascending" this can be considered to be an irony to him similar to how someone who didn’t ascend in cultivation is equivalent to someone who cannot fly. Mo Xuanyu is someone who didn’t ascend in cultivation hence his weak cultivation. (羽) when the language is used in a negative connection meaning “ascend" or "passed away” in Chinese this is given insight into how he died mysteriously with the body offering ritual. His entire given name can refer to how he vanished without a trace, mysteriously and without a sound, like a feather.

Qin Su (秦愫)

Her surname doesn’t mean anything in Chinese; it is just a surname Her given name Sù/愫 means “guileless and sincere” in Chinese this can refer to what was described in the novel as appearance and personality-wise someone innocent and naive.

If you look closely her entire name is a homophone to Qingsu (情愫 qíng sù sentiment feeling) a phrase that is used to describe feelings in Chinese.

Qin Su is an emotional character, guided by her own emotions. This makes her different from other characters who are corrupt and squash their sentimentality for ambition or revenge since the emotional aspect makes her name sound like a sentiment feeling.

Qin Su is guided by her emotions which give her strength An example of this is noted in her backstory. Is when JGY saved her during the sunshot campaign gave her the will to pursue him. The most prominent scene of an emotional outburst where she openly lambasts her husband/brother for his deception and murder of her son her feelings of rage and betrayal gave her the strength to actively resist JGY as he attempts to coax her into giving out the name of who gave her the letter.

An innocent emotional character compared to the corrupt cultivators who died horribly who was too innocent to survive in the corrupt world of cultivators and could not handle knowing the dark truths.

Yu Ziyuan (虞紫鸢)

The character in her surname Yú/虞 means "be anxious or worry." If you dive deeper into her character it speaks to one of her major concerns to how her husband perceives herself and their son in comparison to Wei Ying. Her surname references her major insecurities.

Zǐ/紫 means “purple" her signature color and yuān/鸢 means "kite (bird)” the kite is a type of bird of prey this speaks to her aggressive and fierce personality and strong cultivation.

Zǐyuān (紫鸢) is also another way to refer to the Chinese wall iris; purple is the color of the iris, so this again references to her signature color. Iris has noble connotations that speak to her noble status and a fact that she is a graceful and elegant woman even with her bad temper. Purple flowers are tied to royalty represent dignity and pride both speak to her tremendous pride and noble status.

Luo Qingyang (罗青羊)

Next is Mian Mian

Luō/罗 means “silk” in Chinese; this can invoke the trope "silk hiding under steel.” Underneath her delicate appearance is a tough backbone; she is not afraid to stand up to her own beliefs and the people she cares for.

The character in her given name Qīng/青 means “green" but when used in classical Chinese Qīng is another way to refer to “black”.

yáng/羊 means “sheep.” Sheep are considered innocent in Chinese; the sheep symbolism could emphasize her initial appearance as a frail damsel in distress who needs to be saved. A woman who is considered weak and dumb as a sheep by the sexist men of society.

Also, in ancient Chinese symbolism, sheep represent justice, which goes hand in hand with her tough backbone who is not afraid to stand up to her own beliefs for what’s right and wrong.

So, her given name together means “black sheep.” She would be considered the black sheep in the world of cultivator being born a servant and a woman and easily dismissed.

The black sheep part can refer to how someone who chooses to outcast herself from mainstream cultivation society in favor of pouring her own life as a rough cultivator on its outskirts with her family.

Her nickname MianMian comes from Chinese sheep wool which is called mian yang (绵羊).

Jin Rusong (金如松)

The character of his first name Rú/如 has the same character and meaning as Jin Ling birth name Rúlán/如兰

This refers to how he is the same generation as Jin Ling.

The second character sōng/松 means "pine tree.”

If you put the characters of his given name together means "to be like a pine tree” this Sounds like the phrase "to make like a tree and leave” This can note his one-time appearance in the story. Pine trees symbolize longevity and long life; this is ironic for him because his fate of dying young.

Jinzhu and Yinzhu (金珠 &. 银珠)

Another two minorish characters are Jīnzhū/金珠 and Yínzhū/银珠 their names mean “silver pearl and gold pearl” this doesn't mean much on the surface since the meaning of their names is obvious.

In Chinese pearls, gold and silver are connected to wealth, money, and status. They are meant to say something about Madam Yu’s status as a noble and to emphasize their relationship between master and servant.Gold and silver are valuable and prized this empathizes them being Madam Yu’s prized servants, but this can also indicate something about them as people: they are both known for being extremely skilled cultivators. Their fancy names highlight how prized they are personally to Madam Yu as her right/left-hand women.

Jin Zixuan (金子轩)

Zi/子 means (child), Zi/子 is a generational character that is used in the Jin clan by Guangshan to name his children this can Zixuan is the only legitimate child of the sect leader of his father.

The second character xuān/轩 means "a tall pavilion.” The character xuān/轩 is used to mean “dignified as a king.” His entire name can refer to his position as the inheritor of the Jin clan with all their wealth and estate prestige as well as his lofty attitude.

Jin Ling (金凌)

There was already a meta on Jin Ling birth name Jin Rulan,

His courtesy name Líng/凌 means "rise above.” The e name it goes with the statement "I’ll rise above others;” he wants people to think differently about him due to their prejudice for having no parents and rise above the people’s perceptions of him.

This can mean his character development that he’ll rise above the adults of society and escape the prejudice they eat up through his growing acceptance of Wei Wuxian and maturity at the end when he takes over as a sect leader.

Wen Ning (温宁)

Wen Ning’s given name Níng/宁 means “peace"

His name notes his kind nature in contrast to his cruel, power-hungry relatives and his peaceful nature even when turned into fierce corpses.

His courtesy name Qiónglín/琼林 means “beautiful forest;” this notes his timid personality who hides behind others who is seen hiding behind his sister when first introduced and his low confidence in himself. Forests are used to hide outlaws. This can refer to how he had to hide from society since it deemed him dangerous since he was restructured by Wei Wuxian.

Wen Qing (温情)

Wen Qing’s entire name (Wēn Qíng,温情) when put together means “tenderness” it shares the same character(情) as Qin Su’s name.

She does have a kind-sounding name. At first glance she seems harsh and aggressive but she’s shown to be very kind as shown by her willingness to continuously save WWX and her care for her relatives especially Wen Yuan, and her tenderness and love feelings for her younger brother.

She is also the one who tells WWX “thank you” and “I’m sorry” important arc words that exemplify humility and empathy which WWX then passes onto Jin Ling.

Lan Qiren (蓝启仁)

I found Lan Qiren’s name ironic because the character in his name rén /仁 means “benevolence,” the same one used for kindness and humanity.

I find this ironic in the way he treats his nephews prizing them on the surface as gentlemen but not as individual people.

I find the Qǐ/启 “open" part ironic as well because he doesn’t hold an open mind with Wei Wuxian’s antics considering him a “corrupting influence” on his nephew and disapproved of his use of demonic cultivation. Reluctance to accept him and Lan Wangji’s marriage, scolding Lan Xichen for showing grief over his best friend’s death despite his feelings and life in danger. On the surface, it doesn’t seem like he actually holds any kindness but when examined the character rén /仁 it fits his personality well.

The character rén /仁 came from Confucianism. Ren is the fundamental virtue in Confucian that represents the moral qualities that govern man and his relationship with others. It’s considered the perfect virtue or can be categorized as the ren of virtue and ren of affection. Ren of affection is considered compassion and empathy for others as well as altruism for another human being. Ren of virtue symbolizes the perfect virtue of moral perfection and human excellence, to become a morally perfect individual to nurture morally upright individuals that are grounded in moral values.

When I looked deeper into rén /仁 it says a lot about him as a character which is that he cares about the rules of the Lan sect and gets angry at any perceived misconduct. Though he lacks the kindness and humility of ren he has the rules of ren Qiren have more of the ren or virtue is seen how he treats his nephews characterized them as perfect moral gentlemen first than people the second build on his high standards to his nephews, to be honest, righteous and immaculate raise them to be model students.

This can reference his status as a teacher in how he teaches both his nephew and students to be upright and moral citizens of society. the meaning in his given name "Open benevolence” can be on how he preaches the rules to others in short openly preaches the ren in Confucianism the character rén /仁 suits someone who cares about the rules not the compassion of ren.

Lan Jingyi (蓝景仪)

Jǐng/景 means “scenery"

Jingyi’s second character yí/仪 contains the meaning "courtesy, etiquette, manners" and comes from Yi which is something that is used in etiquette and ceremonial.

His name can be a reference to him being in the Lan sect and his and Qiren’s names are made to represent the Lan sect principles.

When you look at Lan Jingyi he doesn’t seem to fit the traditional standards of a Lan sect disciple with being both brash and outspoken, but he is the Laniest of the Lan sect disciples there is. He does care about the Lan sect rules and gets angry at anyone who breaks them this is shown with the way he gets annoyed at Wei Wuxian in Cloud Recess for breaking the rules and how he embodies the Lan sect motto is when he speaks up for Wei Wuxian against the cultivators during the second segue of the burial mounds. He shows to be different in the way he follows the rules and discipline, not in a quiet, stiff way but a very loud outspoken way.

Jin Guangyao (金光瑶)

His name is a cruel irony to his character and symbolic of his relationship with him and his father.

His birth name is Meng Yao. Meng/孟 means " eldest amongst brothers” this can mean being the only son of his mother. Yáo/瑶 means "jade, precious stone” this can infer how he is beloved by his mother.

But his name Yáo can likely be a reference to the pearl button Jin Guangshan gave Meng Shi. The pearl button is symbolic of his relationship to Meng Shi and Guangyao.

Another is seen in his courtesy name Guangyao is that he lacked the generational name Zi like the rest of his father’s children. There’s a reason for that.Him not sharing the generational character means that Jin Guangyao is acknowledged as part of the family but not as a son. This showed that Guangshan accepted him due to his accomplishment only to further his ambitions for the Jin clan and insulted him by saying he was not in the same status as his sons denying him from an equal standing among them. He was never acknowledged as having equal standing with them because of his status as the prostitute’s son.

His courtesy name Guang/光 carries the same characters in Guangshan’s name this can apply his desperation to get his fathers love and approval to how he does anything to gain it.

Only to realize that he never thought much of him and was like the prostitutes in the brothel he uses then discards when he’s done with them just like how his father did with his mother. he doesn’t actually think much of Guangyao and Meng Shi only being valued Meng Shi for giving him personal amusement and pleasure but not value as a person and GuangYao for his accomplishments for his political goals, not the person himself he’s someone of little value to his father as the pearl button had.

Nie Mingjue (聂明玦)

Second, of the Venerated Triad Nie Mingjue. If you split the name character apart Míng/明 means “clear, bright” and jué玦 means "a penannular jade.” His name is read as "bright penannular jade"

Jué玦 comes from Yujue/ 玉玦 which is a jade pendant that is often used as a symbol of separation or resolution for homophony reasons reference as someone who has their mind made up and won’t change it; this notes his relationship with Guangyao and NMJ’s personality. The separation and resolution note his tragic broken bond with Jin Guang Yao whose rigid view of morality and sense of justice and Guangyao’s desperation for approval worsened their relationship over time.

His name goes well with his rigid views of justice and black and white mortality he displays. He is someone who never listens to the views and opinions of others and never empathizes with them; he is someone who is deadset and rigid in their views who won’t listen to someone’s opinions regarding his own rigid black and white morality and harsh pursuit of justice.

Lan Xichen(蓝曦臣)

Lan Xichen name xīchén/曦臣 means “Chancellor of the morning sun”, the chen/臣 part of his given name notes his warm, friendly temperament in contrast to his younger brothers frosty cold exterior the morning sun next to his brother’s stoic face. Chancellor refers to his high position in the cultivation society of the venerate triad members of the Lan clan.

His birth name huàn/ 涣 means to “dissolve” which could mean the dissolution of his innocence as he grows more aware of the corruption that lies around him even those he trusts the most at the end of the story he’s left in turmoil he has to deal with the fact that he factored into the deaths of his two friends. His doubts towards Nie Hanshang could imply that he would go back to the optimistic naive man he once was.

Nie Huaisang (聂怀桑)

Last but not least the character whose meaning I am going to talk about is Nie Huaishang His entire name Huáisāng/怀桑 means “to hold mulberry leaves”.

In China, mulberry trees are planted because they are a staple food of silkworms to make silk

growing mulberries suggest wealth and security. This meaning suits Huaisang perfectly. He's someone who enjoys simple luxuries like keeping fans and hates to work hard love to live a comfortable life.

But there another aspect of his personality that of being a chess master who watches his plans go into fruition all the while watching comfortably at the side he manipulates and plans the events that take place in the story his process is like he’s spinning silk from behind the scenes. someone who sits comfortably in the background but spins the silk to manipulate the events in place.

This is only my interpretation of what the name means for the characters if you feel that this isn’t the case feel free to add or change. I am not an expert Chinese speaker so I apologize if I translated something wrong. I want to give a huge shout out to thisworldgodonlyknows who helped me create this post a huge thank you for helping me elaborate on the character’s names.

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ouyangzizhensdad · 4 years ago

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Phoenix Mountain Kiss and Consent/Boundaries in MDZS

The following opinion, expressed in the recent mdzs controversial opinion thread on twitter, is actually one I’ve meant to address for a while:

Even if most of fans loves the 'stolen kiss scene' in the Phoenix Mountain in the novel, that was a sexual harassment.

People in the fandom, especially those who were introduced first to the novel through cql, have a tendency to criticize the Phoenix Mountain kiss scene, saying it was non-consensual. My problem is not that they are wrong. The kiss is (or starts as, at the very least) non-consensual. My problem with this criticism is that people point this out as if it were a mistake. As if mxtx had meant to write a romantic kiss and had instead fumbled it all up and made it not consensual by virtue of not being woke, not being a good enough writer, or being too influenced by bl tropes. And that readers are too unsuspecting or not educated enough to realize the wrong mxtx committed.

Here’s my hot take: The kiss is non-consensual because it was written to be non-consensual. mxtx is not trying to pull the wool over our eyes. The reason why we, as readers, can infer that, is because the non-consensual aspects of the kiss are important to the events of the plot, some of themes explored in the book, lwj and wwx’s relationship after wwx’s return, and lwj’s character arc. mxtx uses this moment and its aftermaths, amongst others, to make a point about consent and communication in relationships--one of the central themes of the novel. Shocking, I know. Arguing that consent and communication are a main theme in mdsz: now that's a controversial opinion.

Now, I won’t argue mxtx always manages to develop this theme with utmost finesse. You can critique and disagree with her treatment of the theme throughout the novel (taking into consideration, as well, how it’s not just explored through lwj and wwx’s relationship). That being said, isolating events in the novel like the Phoenix kiss scene to mark them as Good or Bad without considering the context in which they happen and are explored within the novel is just bad literary analysis :/.

Let’s first consider this simple statement: the non-consensual aspect of the kiss is not accidental--mxtx knew it was non-consensual when she wrote it, and she wasn’t trying to hide that fact.

By the time we reach the Phoenix Mountain competition, lwj has accepted his feelings for wwx, and that these feelings will not be returned. After all, in the xuanwu cave, wwx took great pains to ‘reassure’ him that he is super-straight-and-totally-would-never-flirt-with-him. Yet, wwx continues to ‘flirt’ with him--tossing a flower at him just before the competition--which we can gather is a source of, um, great torment for him.

We are not privy to lwj’s thought process leading to the stolen kiss. What we know for certain, however, is how he reacts to and perceives his own actions after the fact. Through wwx’s unreliable narration, we can still understand that lwj immediately regrets his actions and feels uncontrollable anger towards himself and his lack of self-restraint. While wwx has more complicated and contradictory feelings bout the kiss, lwj clearly sees his actions as wrong and disrespectful. He is scared of what he has been capable of doing unto another person--pushing wwx away the moment he sees him after the kiss.

The person spun around. It was Lan Wangji after all. However, right now, his eyes were bloodshot, his expression almost frightening. Wei Wuxian was startled, “Wow, so scary.”

Lan Wangji’s voice was harsh, “Go!”

Wei Wuxian, “I just came here and you want me to go. Do you really hate me that much?”

Lan Wangji, “Stay away from me!” [chapter 69]

As readers, we are told that the Phoenix Mountain kiss, nor its implications, is not something to consider lightly. The fact that lwj’s reaction after the kiss is written in, and that it is so intense for someone usually so reserved, or the fact that we learn that more than a decade later he is still ashamed of himself and describe himself as having done something wrong (or, very wrong 很不对 ), all prove that the non-consensual aspect of the kiss is not an accident and is not downplayed as something to expect from someone in love with another person.

蓝忘机闷声道：“我，那时，自知不对。很不对。” [chapter 111]

I can already hear some people ask: even if it was not an accident, why chose to include a non-consensual kiss between the two romantic leads? if not because it is a bl trope/weird kink, why did mxtx chose to put this in her novel? what do we gain by including dubious consent or non-consensual interactions in our fiction?

The long-short answer is: because the act of crossing boundaries is a very productive story-telling device for any piece of media focusing on any type of interpersonal relationships. Crossing boundaries--willfully or unintentionally--is a source of conflict, internal and/or relational, which can drive the plot forward, shape character development and relationships, as well as be useful for certain thematic discussions.

Current discourses regarding consent in English-speaking, mostly-western spheres of the web tend to be very polarized, painting people who cross boundaries as bad. The solution presented (i.e. how to not be a bad person) tends to be an invitation for everyone, within any relationship, to constantly negotiate consent verbally and honestly: to constantly disclose boundaries, to constantly ask for permission, etc. While I do not dismiss the value of these suggestions, it is an ideal representative of certain socio-temporally specific cultural expectations of what communication is, how communication should happen, and how relationships should be like, etc.. Human relationships are messy, people are flawed and hurt each other, and we have complex internal lives (for instance, someone might not realize their wants or limits until they are faced with them). Instead of having media show us only a specific type of idealized relationships where boundaries are never crossed, ever, they allow us to explore the implications of boundaries within interpersonal relationships. Or, sometimes, media and fiction just aim to represent or are influenced by this very real part of human relationships, and use it as a way to create conflict within the narrative and relationships (sometimes in a interesting manner, sometimes in a very gross manner).

In mdsz, the Phoenix mountain non-consensual kiss is a two-fold source of conflict: internal (lwj) and relational. While wwx remains unaware until he and lwj are together of the identity of the person who kissed him, the implications of the kiss ends up shaping their relationship both before and after wwx’s rebirth.

A source of (unknown) conflict between lwj and wwx after he is summoned back from the dead is the fact that lwj believes wwx is aware of his feelings. But this conflict is further compounded by the fact that lwj has once forced his feelings unto wwx, and is utterly afraid that he would dare to ever do it again. That is why, every time wwx initiates physical contact, or flirts very deliberately with lwj, lwj never goes further than what wwx has initiated. Sometimes, he even de-escalates their proximity or level of intimacy (usually by asking wwx to “ 别乱动” or, famously during Drunk#2, by literally knocking himself out) --out of fear that he, again, would lack self-control and do something wrong to the man he loved. He never presumes he has the permission to push their relationship further than what wwx is offering. Without that added source of conflict, would it have been reasonable to expect lwj and wwx to have realized their mutual feelings earlier, even with the issue of lwj not being aware wwx does not know of his feelings?

“In the beginning, the reason for behaving in such a manner was to let Lan Wangji be disgusted with him and kick him out of the Cloud Recesses, and they would never have to meet again, going their separate ways. Lan Wangji couldn’t possibly tell what his real intentions were. Yet, [..] even when faced with Wei Wuxian’s various actions, tricks, and pranks, Lan Wangji never once lost his temper, reciprocating with restraint and courtesy.” [chapter 99]

That is all true, of course, until Drunk 3. Here again, the ghost of the stolen kiss plays a part in accentuating the conflict. Without it, would lwj have jumped to conclusions as quickly? And, plot-wise, the shared perception of wwx and lwj that they have taken advantage of the other is a source of conflict that does multiple things--it gives wwx an incentive to go look at the temple at night to distract himself from his guilt and sadness, instead of going the next day with lwj (at which point jgy would have had perhaps already left) and it keeps wwx in the dark about lwj’s feelings until lxc reveals to him the events of the past he has forgotten. Here again, issues of consent are clearly taken into consideration as a source of conflict, shaping both characters’ motivations and the events of the plot.

Finally, the theme of consent/boundaries is an important aspect of lwj’s internal struggle, particularly in relation to his father’s choices. The kiss is part of his journey.

It is not coincidental that the Lan motto is “Be Honorable”/”Self-restraint,” and that lwj is presented as the model Lan disciple. This element is part of the context that gives narrative and thematic meaning to the non-consensual kiss. When lwj forces a kiss on a blindfolded wwx, lwj goes against the values he holds dear and the teachings that were imparted unto him--prime internal conflict.

But what is also interesting, to me in any case, is how consent is the thing that ultimately differentiates lwj’s choices from his father’s.

How willing was Lan-furen to be saved by Qingheng-jun? to be taken to live in seclusion in the Cloud Recesses? to be married to him? to have children with him? The novel never tells us clearly. However, the novel gives us an idea of how lqr, lxc and lwj perceive their parents’ relationship. For lwj, we are given an insight into his perception indirectly during the following conversation between him and lxc.

[Lan Xichen] spoke, “Wangji, is there something on your mind? Why have you been so tense?”

Of course, in most people’s eyes, the ‘tenseness’ probably looked no different than Lan Wangji’s other expressions.

Lan Wangji’s brows sunk low as he shook his head. A few moments later, he replied in a low voice, “Brother, I want to take someone back to the Cloud Recesses.”

Lan Xichen was surprised. “Take someone back to the Cloud Recesses?”

Lan Wangji nodded, his expression pensive. After a pause, he continued, “Take them back… and hide them somewhere.”

Lan Xichen’s eyes immediately widened.

[…]

“Hide them somewhere?”

Lan Wangji frowned softly. “But they are not willing.” [chapter 72]

Indirectly, we come to understand that lwj draws parallels with his father situation: they both want to protect someone by taking them to the Cloud Recesses, but these persons are unwilling. The unsaid question here is, would I choose to do as our father did?

The non-consensual kiss is part of lwj’s journey, through which he comes to understand that, despite his strict upbringing and disciplined lifestyle that was supposed to keep him from becoming like his father, he is capable of being his father (or at least who he thinks his father is). He learns that he can understand what sort of passionate feelings could bring someone to do something that goes against not only the wishes of his clan members, but the very wishes of the person they love, for the sake of keeping them safe or for the sake of having them by their sides. And at the end of that internal journey, lwj chooses not be like his father--to put wwx’s decisions and wants and needs first. After buyetian, lwj offers his protection and confesses his feelings--and wwx rejects him. lwj respects wwx’s choice, while still going against his clan to protect him. He brings wwx back to Mass Grave Hill knowing full well that wwx would not survive long the wrath of the four great sects seeking revenge against him, and goes home to receive his punishment.

Overall, what I tried to say in many many words, is that the Phoenix Mountain kiss is not non-consensual by accident. It is not because mxtx is an awful person or is not educated enough, or because she thinks dubious consent is romantic. The fact that it is non-consensual is addressed within the narrative, fuels internal and external conflicts, and is as well woven into the plot structure and the themes of the novel. The kiss is not an outlier element, added to titillate a readership--it exists as an integral part of the novel.

I’m not saying it’s not okay to decide that you do not want to engage with any content that includes non-consensual interactions or dubious consent because that triggers or irks you regardless of the way it is handled. It is totally valid to not personally enjoy or have criticisms about choices mxtx made in exploring these themes, in presenting the internal and relational conflicts around consent/boundaries, or even in the way she decided to write the scenes that figure dubious consent. However, it is not really helpful to divorce an event from its context within a piece of media in order to brand it as either Problematic or Unproblematic, Good or Bad.

Note: Much more could be said about the theme of consent/boundaries in mdzs; this is not exhaustive in the least.

Note2: Much more could be said, in relation to the question and theme of consent, about: the cultural limitations of Westerners to engage fully with a text written for a chinese audience; the limits of fan translators to fully understand the nuances and themes of a novel and to communicate them in a different language; about the place dubious consent and non-consensual interactions has had in the romance/erotica genre for a long time, and no, not only because Misogyny or Homophobia.

#re: controversial mdzs opinion twitter thread #mdzs #mdzs meta #excuse my english lmao #wangxian #this is 2k i'm sorry

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kotokoharrow · 4 years ago

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Case Study 001: Haruka Sakurai

Note that this analysis is based around my own views. I do not present my way of interpreting Haruka as fact, and I am sharing this to see if others agree with me. If you disagree, you are more than welcome to say so and we can discuss it!

Content Warning: This analysis contains discussion of: Animal abuse and death, child abuse and death, emotional abuse, child neglect, murder, flashbacks and nightmares. Please proceed with caution if you are sensitive to any of these topics!

Evidence List:

Haruka’s Profile

Haruka’s Voice Drama

Undercover

Weakness

Two Breaths Walking

Voice Line

Timeline Convo

Character Analysis

A young male prisoner, quiet with downcast eyes. During Es’ early interrogations, he offered only a few constrained words in response. However, he has gradually become more talkative, forming an emotional bond over the course of his interviews. Once one begins to converse with him, his gentle pre-disposition is revealed.

He has a meek temperament and, even in Milgram, does not appear to be dissatisfied. Barely manages to communicate with Es and the other prisoners. However, during conversations, as if some meaning is lost along the way, there is a disconnect.

Haruka is a teenager with a very low opinion of himself, shown in his attitude in his voice drama and the lyrics of his song. When he appears in Undercover, he is shown wringing his hands together, avoiding looking at the camera, and when he finally does shows an unhappy expression. These pieces of his body language show that he is an anxious boy.

Haruka doesn’t appear to be very bright, with his song being written in hiragana, and he struggles to follow along with everything that Es says to him in his voice drama. He even says himself that he isn’t very bright. However, this is likely a result of his mother’s treatment of him, as he hasn’t been allowed to develop as he should have.

The shot in Undercover that shows his room shows young children’s toys on the floor. This, along with his speech patterns, show that he remains in a child’s mindset, despite being 17 years old. I believe that this is due to him becoming ‘stuck’ at an age where he experienced a traumatic event as a child - the event that revolved around fireworks and the girl in his MV.

Haruka’s primary motivation is love. He was neglected and emotionally abused by his mother his whole life, and so has been deprived of the love that most people receive from their parents. Despite love being his motivation, he shows in his interrogation questions that he doesn’t really understand what it is - he just knows that he wants it.

While his primary motivation is love, Haruka’s primary fear is abandonment. He is also afraid of being deceived, which again ties into his fear of abandonment. Haruka believes that everyone will leave him when they learn what he has done, and also believes that he will bring misfortune to others. This belief of bringing misfortune to others is likely a belief that his mother gave to him.

Haruka avoids situations and things that remind him of his trauma, such as animals and small children. This, as well as imagery in his MV, his mother’s treatment of him and his general personality, lead me to believe that he experiences PTSD.

The kanji in his given name means ‘far’ or ‘distant’, which likely references his personality, and the fact that he finds it difficult to get close to and communicate with others, due to having been deprived of connections for most of his life.

MV Analysis

I believe that Weakness takes place after Haruka has committed his crimes, and that it’s showing events from his past in the form of nightmares and flashbacks, which is why they appear distorted and there is heavy symbolism. As a result of this, even what we see in the MV is ambiguous as to whether it really happened, as dreams are not always literal and even with flashback-type nightmares, key facts can appear different to what happened in reality.

At the beginning of the MV, we see Haruka sitting in front of a dressing table, looking at himself in the mirror. The table is likely his mothers, as the perfume bottles on it seem to belong to a woman. Behind Haruka, we can see a window that shows that it’s daytime, but when his reflection in the mirror changes into his younger self, we can see that it is night-time outside (with red sky and a full moon). As the image changes, I believe this is Haruka experiencing a flashback, or perhaps a sign that he is having a nightmare.

I also believe that Haruka experiences PTSD as a result of his mother being emotionally abusive and neglectful towards him. I believe that this mistreatment when he was a young child explains a lot of his current personality - his behaviour fits in well with the behaviours of people who survive emotional abuse (doubting his own perception of things, a very strong negative opinion of himself, fear of abandonment).

There are many lyrics in Weakness that I believe point towards Haruka’s mother being emotionally abusive. The notable ones to me are: ‘Tell me, why are you drifting away from me? / Tell me, why do you say it’s my fault?’ and ‘If I tried and couldn’t say it / You would get angry at me and say “You’re hopeless”’. I believe that these lyrics are directed at Haruka’s mother.

As for imagery in the MV, when Haruka initially falls backwards from the dressing table, he falls into the liquid from his mother’s perfume, which shows how her treatment of him has surrounded him. Later, while he’s walking alongside her happily, she barely looks back down at him, and when adult Haruka pushes his younger self back, the following image is shown:

I believe the drawing in the background is meant to be Haruka’s mother, and his cruel treatment of his younger self is meant to show that he has internalised his mother’s abuse, going on to blame and punish himself for what he believes she would blame and punish him for.

Later, it shows Haruka as a child watching the fireworks with a girl his own age, whose face is blacked out like his mother’s. While it’s not clear what exactly happened, something bad happened to the girl, and she vanished from his life.

This is pure speculation, but I don’t think that Haruka killed the girl. I think something bad happened to her - possibly she even died - and that Haruka blames himself for what happened, whether fairly or unfairly. I believe that what happened was traumatic to Haruka, and he tried to avoid thinking about the bad part by focusing on his memory of the fireworks, which is a part of his denial.

Later, Haruka is petting a dog with his mother. Then, he goes outside to search for the dog, and comes across the dog’s body. Initially, I believed that Haruka had killed the dog, and I still think that this is a highly likely theory, as yellow roses are seen (which in flower language used to represent jealousy), and the lyrics that play during this point are ‘You praised me by saying “You’re crazy” / Thank you, I’ll do my best’ which, to me, alludes to children acting out for attention when they are being neglected, because due to the lack of positive attention they begin to see all forms of attention as a good thing, including negative attention.

However, in the timeline conversations, there is an exchange between Haruka and Shidou where Haruka has bloodied hands, and he tells a concerned Shidou that it comes from a bad habit of his, that when he’s tense he clenches his fists and his nails dig into his palms, causing them to appear bloodied.

Shidou: Sakurai-kun...? Could you show me your hand? Haruka: Hei!? No, this isn’t... it’s n-nothing... Shidou: Lend it to me. ...Your palm is covered in blood. Let’s have it disinfected. This... has it always been like this? Haruka: A-ah... I-it’s a habit... W-When I feel tense I grip my hands really tight, and my nails...

This detail has caused me to wonder if Haruka didn’t actually kill the dog. We see child Haruka looking for the dog nervously, and then appearing horrified when he finds the dogs corpse, then he looks down at his hands and sees blood on them. We also only see adult Haruka bludgeoning the dog. It’s common for people with PTSD to re-experience trauma from different perspectives, or with details changed, so it’s possible that Haruka did not kill the dog.

However, at this point, I think either explanation could be possible, so I’ll leave both of those theories here and move on.

Later, when it shows adult Haruka strangling child Haruka, I believe that this is when Haruka’s Milgram murder takes place. Before he begins strangling his child self, he is seen looking at a memory of himself being ignored by his mother, and becomes enraged, lashing out at his child self and strangling him, seemingly in an act of self-loathing.

However, I believe that Haruka is actually murdering his mother, having finally snapped and let out all of his repressed feelings. After the murder is over, I believe that Haruka was so horrified by what he did, he went into denial - which is something he has practice from doing his whole life - and the details of what he did became distorted.

In conclusion, I believe the following:

The MV takes the form of Haruka’s nightmares, which is why it’s ambiguous, unreliable and distorted

Haruka was emotionally abused and neglected by his mother since childhood

Haruka didn’t kill the girl, but he does blame himself for what happened to her

EITHER: Haruka killed the dog to try and get his mother to notice him, OR Haruka didn’t kill the dog but still in some way blames himself for the dog’s death

Haruka killed his mother directly due to his repressed feelings of anger towards her for abusing and neglecting him

Haruka is horrified by what he did, and on some level is in denial of the facts of what happened

Misc Analysis

Undercover

Haruka’s bedroom has toys that would be more appropriate in the bedroom of a young child. This shows that he is mentally stuck in a child-like state. Interestingly, there is also a drawing of a tree with two snakes that also appears during his MV. I don’t know what this means.

Haruka is shown strangling Es, which backs up the idea that Haruka’s murder happened when he was shown strangling his child self. Haruka’s mouth is wide open, showing that his murder involved heightened emotion on his part. This wasn’t a cold and calculated murder, this was a spur-of-the-moment response to something.

Interrogation Questions

I’m picking a few notable interrogation questions to analyse. In general, though, Haruka’s answers were much simpler than Yuno’s, which shows his child-like mindset and difficulty in understanding things.

Q: If one of your wishes could be granted, what would it be? A: I want to be loved.

Pretty straightforwards. This shows Haruka’s core motivation is to be loved.

Q: When was your first love? A: I don’t know.

Q: What’s the difference between romantic love and just love? A: Don’t they both mean that you like someone?

Q: What’s your ideal date plan? A: I don’t understand.

Despite his core motivation being wanting to be loved, Haruka doesn’t understand much about love, due to having been deprived of it his whole life.

Q: What kind of person is your father? A: I disappointed him.

This is the only time we hear of Haruka’s father. I’d guess that his mother blamed Haruka for his father leaving them, and that’s why he believes that he disappointed his father.

Q: Have you ever had a pet before? A: I have not.

Q: What is your favourite animal? A: I don’t like animals.

Q: What are some things you can’t deal with? A: Small children and animals.

Haruka denies any incident that was traumatic to him.

Q: What do you think of your family? A: I love them.

Despite having been deprived of love from his mother, he still says he loves them.

Q: Tell us what you enjoy doing. A: I like talking with the other prisoners.

Haruka talks about what he’s been doing since coming to Milgram, which implies that he didn’t have much he enjoyed doing beforehand.

Two Breaths Walking

A song about a boy meeting a girl. The girl tries to teach the boy about life, but due to the boy’s mother having taught him about life wrongly, he struggles to understand, and as a result ends up hurting the girl.

With Haruka as the boy, the girl in his MV as the girl, and his mother as the boy’s mother, this directly parallels Haruka’s MV. There isn’t much to talk about, because the parallels are pretty direct. It backs up the idea that Haruka’s mother was abusive, teaching him wrongly through her abuse and neglect.

Voice Drama

Es: Now, let’s begin the interrogation. Prisoner Number 1, Haruka. Haruka: O-Okay… I-I’m sorry… Es: Huh? Do you have something to apologise for? Haruka: U-uh, no… I’m sorry.

This shows us Haruka’s submissive personality. This kind of apologising for any perceived fault is very common in survivors of emotional abuse, because they learnt in the abusive environment that their abuser could find fault in anything, and to lower the severity of abuse, they would apologise. However, as this level of apologising isn’t needed or expected in regular situations, when it carries over it stands out.

Haruka: Ah, uh, um… I didn’t understand whatever it was you were saying. It was difficult. Es: Huh? Haruka: Uh, um… I’m sorry. I’m not that bright. Es: Haruka. What age are you? Haruka: Um… 17 years old, I think. Es: You think? Haruka: Uh, well… I have no interest in my age… I’m sorry.

Haruka isn’t used to having to think for himself, which is also common in survivors of emotional abuse. Abusers try to make their victims dependent on them, they may try to make decisions for their victims, or in the case of abusive parents may speak for them and deprive their children of the ability to develop. Taking into account Haruka’s cover song, I think it’s likely that this was the case with his mother.

Es: The only name left that hasn’t been said is Amane. Haruka: A-Amane. Es: What’s wrong? Haruka: I-I’m not good with them. Children at that age. A-Amane is a good girl, but she brings back b-bad memories.

This is most likely referring to whatever happened with the girl in Haruka’s MV. Haruka avoids thinking about traumatic incidents, even in his nightmares he avoids the details of them. Avoiding triggers of traumatic events is a symptom of PTSD.

Haruka: It’ll happen sometime. I… I… Even though I try to be normal, everything gets ruined. You, everyone, if you knew me… If you knew everything that I did… I’m… gonna be abandoned, that’s bound to happen. Because I’m a selfish killer.

Due to his abuse, Haruka solely blames himself for everything that happens. It’s likely that his mother blames him even for things that weren’t his fault, so this thought process stuck. Haruka’s primary motivation is love, and his biggest fear is abandonment.

Glitched Voice Line

Then what should I have done instead!? Tell me! Tell me so even I can understand!

I believe that this line from Haruka is addressed to his mother who he killed. He felt that he had no way to gain her love, and he is looking to her to tell him what to do.

Other Theories

Twin Theory

A theory I’ve seen says that the child in Haruka’s MV isn’t Haruka as a child, and is actually his twin. I don’t think we have any evidence to support this. I think that, given how much of Haruka’s MV is made up with abstract imagery, we should be careful with interpreting it too literally.

Autistic Haruka Theory

I have no issue with people seeing Haruka as being autistic, however, all of the theories about him being autistic seem to come from an outdated view of autism. I am autistic myself, and while I can recognise a lot of autistic traits in Haruka’s behaviour, I don’t think autism is what they were going for. I think that Haruka’s ‘autistic traits’ are, instead, supposed to show that he’s in a child-like mentality after a trauma that took place in his childhood, and that his behaviour has been strongly influenced by his abusive mother. I believe we have evidence that points towards this specifically, but no evidence that points specifically towards Haruka being autistic.

Unexplained

Why does Haruka say that his hands bleed when he’s nervous and what connection does that have to the blood on his hands in the MV?

What is the significance of the necklace that Haruka wears?

What is the significance of the girl in the MV?

What happened while watching the fireworks?

Did Haruka kill the girl?

What’s the significance of the tree and the snakes?

Final Verdict

My Verdict: Innocent.

I’m very glad that the popular vote determined that Haruka was innocent! My major reasons for this are:

1. His MV is the most abstract right now - it’s unclear exactly what happened, so any judgement based on his crime is going to be difficult. 2. For Haruka to open up more, I think he needs to be reassured that he will not be abandoned. I think that Haruka’s second MV will give us more details, because we have reassured him that he will not be abandoned.

Thank you for reading this ridiculously long thing! I hope to write these for all of the prisoners, and eventually catch up to where we currently are with the voting! If you enjoyed my analysis, please consider sharing so it can reach a wider audience!

#milgram #haruka sakurai #sakurai haruka #deco 27 #deco27 #analysis #mine

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my-darling-luna · 4 years ago

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Your Majesty Chapter 3

Just a reminder that NONE of these gifs are in anyway supposed to represent what the reader looks like, I just use them for a basic look of the dress. I try to be as inclusive as I can be in my writing and if there is anyway that I can be more inclusive, I would love the feedback. Remember to take care of yourself today! I love you!!

Your Majesty Masterlist

Summary- It has been more than a decade since the Kingdom of Ultron lost their princess. (Y/n) was just a 17 year old that didn’t know much about her past. Realizations happen and lives are crossed. How will (Y/n) handle the new pressure?

Stucky x reader

—

“Murdered?” (Y/n) sat in astonishment. The people who cared for her almost all her life were dead. The hatred and disgust for them slowly washed away, leaving only despair and anger at Hydra.

The normal ride took a little under half the time than usual as the horses were no longer at a walk, but rather at a fast jog across enemy lines. The palace doors opened, Vision pulling a dazed (Y/n) along by the arm.

“How was it-” Tony’s face dropped at the sight of what was going on.

“Her caretakers were murdered and a clearly marked threat was on the wall.” Vision said to the king as Pepper pulled her step-daughter tightly into a hug.

“Vision, Rhodey, get everyone into the planning room. I want letters out to every main kingdom in the surrounding area mentioning the urgency for them to show up now.” The three men walked down a corridor and into a room, leaving the two women in the entry way alone.

“Why don’t we go see Morgan, okay? Maybe you can help her with reading.” Pepper’s hand ran up and down (Y/n)’s arm in a soothing way while walking her into the bedroom to the left of her parents’.

“Mommy! Sissy!” (Y/n) cooed at the little girl, sniffing the impending tears back.

“Hello sweetheart, what are you doing there?” (Y/n) sat down on the floor just as she had been taught; with her back straight and her legs crossed at the ankles. Morgan slowly walked over to her sister, her chubby arms held out to grab her cheeks.

“Why cryin’?” Morgan patted (Y/n)’s cheek.

“‘Cause I’m sad.”

“No be sad anymore.” Morgan threw herself into (Y/n)’s arms before pulling away after she got distracted by the colors of her blocks. (Y/n) dabbed away the tears away with a handkerchief so that her makeup wasn’t more messed up than it already was.

(Y/n) took a breath, her feelings were jumbled and her heart ached. It was her fault that her parents were dead. Parents, no that wasn’t right, they weren’t her real parents. Caretakers like Vision called them? No that was insensitive. Foster parents? She could do that. It was her fault that her foster parents were dead. She wanted to hate them so much for keeping her away from her family, but she couldn’t. What would she do if she was Mama or Papa? Would she keep a child away from their own family so that they could be with her? No.

Poking took (Y/n) out of her train of thought. Morgan held a book tight in her grasp while poking her older sister.

“Mommy told me that you would read to me.” (Y/n) smiled and nodded before getting up and sitting on the small toddler bed. Morgan scrambled in behind her and settled in between her legs.

“You ready, sweetheart?” Morgan nodded as (Y/n) opened the book so that both could read. “Once upon a time-”

***

The patter of the rain on the window was easy to lull (Y/n) into a day dream. She was clad in a thin white nightgown with her legs drawn in close to her stomach. Her arms traced the length of her calves absentmindedly.

A knock pierced the quiet room and (Y/n)’s head turned to greet the reason for the noise.

“May I come in?” Her father asked kindly, a mood that was only brought out by his children or Pepper. (Y/n) nodded and the door was closed. Tony sat down on the bed, his weight sinking the mattress. “I meant to ask you earlier, but I’ve been so busy with planning. How are you?” She shrugged.

“I’ve been worse, but I’ve definitely have felt better.” Tony rubbed his daughter’s hand before moving closer to her.

“Do you want to talk about it?” (Y/n) paused for a second before nodding.

“I...I just guess that I feel like a bad person.” She looked up at her father who gave her a questioning look. “I mean, I feel like I hate them sometimes, you know? They didn’t even try to send me back to you or anything even though they knew. But then I think about it and I realize that they took great care of me and loved me no matter how I acted.” (Y/n) sobbed, her words were broken off with hiccups at some points. “I hate them, but I love them and that makes me feel terrible.” Tony sighed and tried to make eye contact with his daughter who turned her head away.

Tony tilted his daughter’s head to look at him. “It’s okay to feel like that because I have.” She looked at him with a questioning look. “I haven’t told you much about my parents in the past week and a half that you’ve been with us, but my father- your grandfather- was the toughest person to live with and for the longest time, I resented him, almost hated him. He never seemed like he was proud of me and never showed me any love. I didn’t realize until I was older and he had passed away, that he just wanted the best for me; he just didn’t know how to show his love. And I know that your issues aren’t the same, but I also know that you loved them a lot. It’s okay and normal to feel some type of animosity towards them. You just need to realize that they needed you as much as you needed them at that point, and it doesn’t make it right, but it made them human.” (Y/n) nodded, her tears clearing up.

“Thanks dad.” Tony’s eyes glossed over, but as quickly as it arrived, it disappeared.

“No problem, okay?” (Y/n) nodded and he kissed her forehead. “Do you remember the party I talked about the morning after you came home?” She nodded. “Well all of the surrounding kingdoms are going to join us. It is scheduled in two days and it’ll be a good chance to meet some new people.” Tony’s confidence and smile were infectious and (Y/n) felt better after those words. “Now get up so we can have some breakfast together.” He left the room and soon Lillian came in and put her in a simple gown just for the day.

***

“Can you see that, Morgan?” The little girl nodded and giggled at the sight of the horses out grazing the field. (Y/n) held the little girl on her hip before wrapping her arm around Morgan’s waist.

“They fluffy!” Tony and Pepper watched the two from the inside of the castle. A window outlooked the barns and their two girls stood right outside of it.

“They’re okay.” Pepper mumbled to her husband as she leaned into his side. Tony put his arm around her and gave a quick squeeze to their intertwined hands.

“Yeah, I know. I guess I just get nervous sometimes, especially with everything with Hydra and (Y/n). I just feel like something bad is going to happen, you know?” Pepper hummed in agreement.

“We won’t let anything happen to them, you know that, don’t you? Our girls are safe.”

“Mom? Dad?” (Y/n)’s voice called as soft patters of shoes were heard on the tile. Pepper and Tony turned around to see their daughters, Pepper’s heard warming every time (Y/n) called her ‘mom’.

“Yes sweetheart?” Pepper asked, her voice soft.

“Morgan wants to go riding, I wanted to see if you wanted to as well.” The two adults looked at each other and nodded.

“We’d love to, why don’t we go get changed and meet back here. You have Morgan under control?” (Y/n) nodded and smiled.

“Let’s go get changed, bug.” (Y/n) mumbled to the little girl before walking down the corridor to both of their bedrooms. “Are you excited for tomorrow?” Morgan enthusiastically nodded, a twinkle in her brown eyes. “Good.”

***

“Good afternoon, (Y/n).” Lillian’s sweet voice echoed in the huge room as she shut the door.

“Hello, Lillian.” Lillian watched as (Y/n) rifled through dresses to find the one that she wanted to wear for tonight. “What do you think of this one?” She held up a tan dress with flowers flowing up the skirt and the bodice.

“I think it’s really pretty.”

“Do you think it’s too much?” Lillian shook her head.

“I know that you’ve never went to one of your father’s parties before, but there’s no ‘too much’ there.” (Y/n) smiled back at Lillian.

“Deal. Okay, I think this is it.” Lillian helped her get into her dress. “Have you seen the ballroom yet?” (Y/n) asked, starting light conversation with someone who she would call a friend.

“Yes, it’s beautiful and I think you’re going to love it.” Lillian moved her over to the vanity and started to blot her skin with makeup.

“I don’t know,” she made eye contact with the girl behind her, “I think this is a little much for a girl who just got here.”

“I think it is enough for a lost princess that was found after sixteen years.” (Y/n) shrugged while Lillian finished the last of her makeup.

“Say hi to all the princes that you’ll meet there. They’re all super handsome.” Lillian wiggled her eyebrows which made the two laugh.

“I’ll make sure that they know who you are.” Lillian blushed, not thinking that (Y/n) would take it seriously.

“Good luck!” She called as (Y/n) walked out of the room.

“Thank you.” (Y/n) blew a kiss to her before walking down the hallway and over to where she was supposed to meet her parents and sister.

“You look wonderful, sweetheart.” Pepper kissed her daughter on the cheek and (Y/n) flushed.

“Thank you mom.” Tony kissed her cheek as well, whispering the same compliment to her. She was about to say thank you, but she was so distracted at the sight of her little sister. “You look beautiful, bug.” Morgan giggled. Her dress was a light pink with glitter tulle and a small tiara on her head.

“Thank you!” The four were distracted by the sound of the announcer saying her father’s, mother’s, and sister’s names out loud.

“Good luck, princess.” Tony squeezed his oldest’s hand before walking through the door with the rest of the family. (Y/n) stood by the door, waiting for it to open and for her name to be called.

“Princess (Y/n) of Ultron.” The announcer called and the huge oak doors opened. (Y/n) stepped out onto the balcony and looked down to all of the people below in the ballroom. Her hands were clasped loosely and her back was rigid as she listened to the clapping from down below. This was her new life.

—

Taglist- @austynparksandpizza @aikeia @simplyfandomish @baby-noodles @lili-ann-love @rebloggingeverything @spookyparadisesheep

#stucky x reader #fanfiction #fanfic #fantasy #fluff #love #bucky barnes #stark reader #steve rogers x reader #steve rogers #bucky barnes x reader #bucky #royalty #x stark!reader #marvel x reader #reader insert

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anxietymuffin · 4 years ago

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Opegana: our roots

This is a story that’s basically a prologue/epilogue to the main story for my oc’s. It’s and original world and Our Roots is about the gods who created it, running away from the olympians.

(Click the pictures for better quality)

The main trio

Kiran, Goddes of the sun and war

Anahita, the Goddess of water and chaos

Eretus, God of life and vegetation

Saros, The Goddess of the moon and magic

Hai, goddess of Balance and Love

Rei, The god of Loyalty and Family, he is a symbol of Honor

Though Hai and Rei are less of gods and more of.. powerful beings.

Kiran and Saros are sisters, together they raise and lower the moon. There are no conflicts between these two because they are equals and one could not exist without the other.

On earth, Saros was considered a young god and therefore could not be trusted in raising the moon. They also did not trust her because in their mind, her magic could mean evil and deceit. When they got to Opegana, she had the opportunity to raise not one, but three moons at their own paces.

Kiran was not trusted because although she had the ability to raise the sun, she was deemed dangerous when it became known she is also a symbol of power in war. She could plan any attack to perfection so she was kept away from the mortals in fear the she would interfere with wars to her benefit.

Anahita was also not allowed to interact with the mortals due to her chaotic nature, they thought she would cause tsunami’s and hurricanes just to watch the chaos unfold down below. They never saw pass the “evil” but chaos does not mean evil, it meant a lack of rules but they turned their backs to her anyways.

Eretus on the other hand was a being who could be trusted, but he was a direct descendant of a titan much like Zeus and he feared that one day Eretus would grow tired of how he and the other 5 were treated and attempt to overthrow him. So before anything of the sort could happen, Zeus used magic that created chains that nullified Eretus’s powers as long as his being existed on earth. Those chains were released when he got to Opegana.

Together Hai and Rei became the image of “the perfect couple” with Rei being incredibly loyal and completely devoted to Hai while she was loving and gentle to him. A holiday was made in their name “Reihai” which was basically a week long version of valentines day. Each day representing a different kind of love (not 7 cause obsessive love is off the list here 😤)

Day one: Eros, Love of the body

In most cases this implies sexual desires but on this day it means more “get someone you’re close with something nice to decorate their body with so they can feel as beautiful as you view them” so clothes, jewelry, hair piece anything that can be worn is on the table.

Day two: Philia, Affectionate love

A day to share with friends or family, this type of love is linked with Loyalty and trust and considered “equal love” which is valued higher than Eros. This day is meant for you to spend quality time with the people you care abut or hold dearly to you.

Day three: Storge, Love of the child

This represents the unconditional love parents have for their children and is spent as a fun day for the younger ones, and can be shared with any child to a trusted guardian. It is spent doing things that will entertain both you and the child, eg: games, going to the theatre or playing outside.

Day four: Agape, playful love

As implied, it focuses on the blossoming of young love with flirting and teasing, always seen in the beginning of a relationship. This day is shared by teens and young adults, who spend it exchanging flowers, love notes and sometimes small meaningful gifts.

Day five: Pragma, long lasting love

Thus day is directed to married couples or life long friends, this day represents the kind of love that goes on and only survives with constant maintenance and nurturance. It may mark an important date in their lives. A common gift given on this day is a steal chain necklace or rings.

Day six: Philautia, Love of the self

A day to focus on yourself, where you’re encouraged to take the time to care and treat yourself kindly. Since most people are always so focused on trying to make things work between famly and jobs, some may neglect their well being so it’s always good to have a day dedicated to yourself to relax and take care.

So that is... the beginning of how Opegana came to be! There's a lot more plot to cover when it's just the beginning but this is what I'm handing in

If I find the motivation I'll continue to make it into a mini movie

#opegana #my ocs #original characters #original story #digital art #digital drawing #mk oc #mortal kombat oc

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sapphire374 · 3 years ago

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Soy Sol: Chapter 12 (I'll Be There Through Every Step)

Wattpad Link

Ch.1 / Ch.2 / Ch.3 / Ch.4 / Ch.5 / Ch.6 / Ch.7 / Ch.8 / Ch.9 / Ch.10 / Ch.11 / Ch.13 / Ch.14 / Ch.15 / Ch.16 / Ch.17

Ámbar runs into her apartment with tears falling on her face. She tries to escape into her bedroom, but Simón catches her before she’s able to. “Ámbar, what happened? Why are you crying?” Simón guides her to the couch and she cries on his shoulder in the comfort of his arms. Tears smearing the mascara all over her face. “Remember when I told you I had a meeting with some students from Law school. Well, the truth is I wasn’t going to meet for any school project, I went to go talk to my biological mom,” Ámbar tells Simón. “Look I didn’t mean to lie; I just didn’t feel like hearing anyone tell me how bad of an idea it was. I felt like I owed that moment to myself, to discover more who I am before I married you.”

“Ámbar I would’ve never stopped you and you know I always support you on every decision and step you make. Us getting married means that we have to trust each other. You have to trust me that I’ll always be here for you no matter what. I know it’s tough, to try to discover more who you are. That happened when Luna was trying to discover from who and where she came from.” Ámbar nods and wipes away her tears from the tissue Simón gave her. “It didn’t even matter anyways since part of me doesn’t believe her but then the other part of me wants to. It made sense everything she said but still hurts, a lot,” Simón holds her tight as she tells him everything Sylvania told her.

“Originally I was considering on meeting Sharon as well to have some questions answered but I don’t want to end up feeling hurt again and in tears like today. Maybe I should just leave everything in the past… I don’t know,” Ámbar says. “I know this can be very hard for you but if that’s what you want, I think it’s a good idea, to speak to Sharon even just a little if you’re ready. Maybe it can tie some loose ends, and you can finally have some of those questions answered. That’s the least you deserve.” Ámbar stares to her lap and thinks about it for a second. Simón gently holds her hand and lets her know, “I will always be here, whether you decide to go talk to Sharon or not. I’ll be here every step of the way.” Ámbar holds out her arms and gives Simón a tight hug. She kisses him on the cheek and lays her gentle face on his shoulders again.

Jam and Roller

It’s the next morning and the whole gang is huddled around Delfi as she prepares their skating video. The nerves crowd the air as she finishes the project on her computer. “Done! It’s ready you guys,” she exclaims. Some are anxiously sipping their shakes while others are tightly holding on to their companions. Pedro stares in awe and shows how proud he is of his soulmate and the whole gang. “You guys this is just the first step into making this dream, the Jam and Roller, stay alive and come true. You all should be proud because we have finally came together, worked hard and did an awesome skating routine. We got this,” Luna announces. “On ready, one, two, three… Jam and Roller!!” the gang all chant.

Delfi presses the button on her computer and it’s official, the video has been sent to the competition’s organization. After sharing a group hug with Juliana, they resume to their posts. “Since today is a special day in which we sent the video, I’m willing to give you guys this day off. Enjoy it, you all truly deserve it after how hard you guys have been working,” Juliana lets the team know at the rink. Gastón heads over to where Matteo is at and says, “hmm well someone seems to be saved by the bell.”

“You’re right, speaking of which I’m so excited to finally sing that song, I’ve been working on for Luna. I spent all night practicing it hoping she forgives me, and everything can get back to normal. I hope this plan works,” Matteo chuckles. “Don’t worry amigo, everything will be fine and lately I’ve been seeing her in a much happier mood. I think she even probably forgot about the arguments and such,” Gastón suggests. “Yeah, I hope so.”

Luna rolls by Matteo and he doesn’t help but stare at her. “So, are you going to talk to her, or should I have to do it for you?” Gastón jokes around. Matteo takes his advice and heads to Luna where she is taking off her skates. “Hey Chica Delivery, are you getting ready for the concert I’m having today,” Matteo asks. “Wouldn’t miss it for the world,” Luna giggles. “Glad you said that cause I may or may not have a surprise all planned out,” Matteo comments. Luna gasps and couldn’t help her excitement cloud the air. “Chico Fresa, I didn’t know you were the mysterious type?” Luna and Matteo begin to laugh in synchronicity. “Well, I guess there’s a lot of things you don’t know about me then.” Matteo’s phone begins to buzz. He picks it up and answers the phone call.

Once he has hung up, he lets Luna know he has to leave. “I’m sorry but I have to go now to start preparing for the concert. I would love to continue this conversation, but the surprise won’t reveal itself on its own hmm,” Matteo teases. Nina rushes to Luna after seeing him slip away. “Luna, what was all that giggling?” Nina whispers. “A special moment that truly felt like it hasn’t happened in ages,” Luna responds.

Jazmín and Delfi both sit together on the couch as they discuss their plans on how they’ll find out who the secret admirer is. “So, I was thinking we can look at all the comments of your recent video and maybe find some clues as to who the secret admirer is. I feel like they probably must have known you from your videos I’m assuming,” Delfi states. “Of course, they know me from my videos, I am the most popular on the web. Who honestly wouldn’t want to date me?” Jazmín insists.

A delivery man holding a large bouquet of flowers enters the Jam and Roller and hands them to Jazmín. Delfi stares in shock. Jazmín pulls out the card and reads “Mi amor, I chose these flowers because they represent the beautiful tones of your eyes and bring out your inner sparkle. I hope these make you feel the happiness I feel just seeing you.” Jazmín holds the card close to her chest and doesn’t help but cheer. “Oh my Jazmin, this person is head over heels in love with you,” Delfi says. “I know! Whoever this is, he already sounds so charming.” Delfi is beyond excited for Jazmín but can’t help but feel a little worried for her friend since they still don’t know who this person is. Why are they sending them anonymously? She finds this a little fishy.

Sharon’s Apartment

Ámbar knocks on the door, she shakily turns the knob when she hears the door unlock from the other side. “Come in,” Sharon states while her personal caretaker guides Ámbar to the dining room as Simón follows her in. “Don’t be shy and take a seat.” Ámbar and Simón pull two chairs and sit down in response to Sharon. She slowly takes a sip from her tea as the room fills with silence. Ámbar is beginning to have flashbacks of all the lonely nights she would have being with Sharon.

“It is a pleasure getting to see you again Ámbar, you hadn’t visited in 7 months. I was beginning to worry that maybe you have forgotten about me,” Sharon admitted. “No, it wasn’t like that, I have been just so busy with law school and managing the Jam and Roller. That’s all,” Ámbar replies. “You’ve always been busy, that’s never changed. I suppose that you’re here but not only to just meet me or stop by to say hello because you would’ve done that before. I can sense you’re here for something,” Sharon remarked. Ámbar turns her eyes towards Simón as a sign for help. “Ms. Benson, I don’t mean to intrude but Ámbar has decided to come here to ask about her past,” Simón answers. “I was wondering what made you decide to adopt me?” Ámbar asks.

Sharon takes a deep breath. “In the past, I had always wanted a kid, but it never seemed like the right time. When I heard Sylvania was planning to give her child up for adoption but didn’t know who would be fitting to be the parent of her baby, that’s when I saw it as a sign of fate. It was meant for me to be your mom,” Sharon takes another sip of her tea. “I’m a little surprised since you never seemed like the ‘loving children’ type. No offense or disrespect,” Ámbar comments. “You know I was a lot different before the fire, after that everything felt a lot stressful with life in general.” Sharon reaches out to hold Ámbar’s hand and feels the ring on Ámbar’s finger.

“You’re engaged?” Sharon questions. “Yes,” Ámbar responds. “And you never told me?!” Sharon shows her dismay and stays silent. “Well, it was pretty recent, I was planning to tell you I was just not sure when or how. It’s complicated and you know that plus you never liked Simon anyways,” Ámbar said. “I know we’ve never had such a close relationship but just know I’ll forever regret not being that loving caring parent you deserved to have. I know it’s too late, but I still care about you and love you.” Sharon begins to cry and tries to wipe her tears with her fingers. “I know madrina, I know, and I love you too mom.” Ámbar heads out with Simón since she thinks it’s for the best.

Benson Valente Mansion

Monica is seen gathering some tulle and fabric in the living room. She hears the door unlock and it’s Ámbar and Simón. “Oh, hello guys! I’ve already begun preparing some of the table arrangements for the wedding reception,” Monica states gleefully. Ámbar looks a little flushed and just nods trying to avoid crying. “Mija, what’s the matter? Is everything okay?” Monica seems concerned for Ámbar. When she notices Ámbar doesn’t say anything, she does what she knows best, she hugs her. Ámbar hugs her back.

“Well, I think I should leave you two in private,” Simón whispers to Monica. Simón leaves to the kitchen when they head to the couch as Monica gives Ambar the tissue box. “Have you ever felt empty inside? Feeling as if everyone you knew as a child and grew up lied to you. That your own story held in the hands of someone else. I feel like….. me trying to uncover the pieces are as if their edges are shattered and there’s no way on putting the puzzle together. Nevermind, this all might sound very silly to you,” Ámbar sniffed. Monica thinks for a little bit. “It’s not silly at all Ámbar, it’s normal to feel this way not being able to know your own story of how your life began. But just know it doesn’t make you who you are entirely. For example, when I look at you, I don’t see the girl who was manipulated by her madrina. I see a strong-minded, hardworking, caring young girl beside me who does an excellent job managing the Jam and Roller while attending Law school. Not anyone can pull off all those moves at once, and you do it so effortlessly. You may not know the full story and only some parts of it, but you are not your mother’s mistakes. In fact, I’m proud of you. After everything you went through, you still managed to seek the right path in life, and it worked. You gave it a second chance, you had what’s so important to have, and that is hope. So, when you walk down the aisle wondering ‘who am I,’ you’re Ámbar Smith, the one who overcame it all.”

Ámbar turns to Monica sobbing, but this time with a huge smile on her face, even showing her teeth. “How do you do it?” Ámbar asks. Monica looks at Ámbar with a confused expression. “How do you know exactly what to say at the right time?” Monica smiles back giggling alongside Ámbar. They stay wrapped in each other’s arms on the couch. Ámbar starts glancing at all the beautifully tied table arrangements for her wedding, how you can tell the amount of effort that was put in each one of them. That’s when it hits her.

When they break away from each other’s arms, Ámbar faces Monica. “Can you be the one to walk me down the aisle? You have always been there for me whenever I needed you these past couple of years and…. I don’t know how to say this, but you have showed me how it feels like having a mom. Why wouldn’t I want my mom there?” Ámbar starts tearing up again. “It would be an honor to attend it, and it truly warms my heart hearing you say that. Ever since our family reunited with you and Alfredo, it’s felt much bigger and cozier. I’ve got two daughters, Luna and you. I wouldn’t miss your dress fitting or wedding for the world.” They begin to hug again. Near one of the walls close to the living room, there’s Simón who couldn’t help but smile while spying on them. It makes him feel ecstatic knowing that Ámbar does feel like she has a family now and is not alone, not ever again.

Matteo’s Concert

All of Matteo’s fans begin to huddle up near the pit of the stage. Everyone is beyond excited to hear his collaboration with Viviana on stage for the very first time. Luna enters with Nina. Nina stays holding Luna’s arm, trying not to get dragged away by the crowd of people nearby. “So Luna, how have you been feeling about the whole thing?” Luna turns towards Nina and says, “A little conflicted not going to lie, but I’m here to support Matteo. I’m still a little bit upset at what he did calling me jealous and standing me up on our date, but I think I’ve put it past us. Today is a special day for him and I shall be here for that.” Nina nods in response.

Gastón rushes over to Matteo backstage. “Everything okay amigo?” Matteo picks up his guitar and nervously answers, “Yes. Once Viviana and I stop singing, you turn off the lights and have only the spotlight facing me. Just like old times when I had sang to her Alla Voy. I will sing this song I wrote for her, and it shall feel like we’re the only ones in the room. This night shall be perfect for her.” Gastón approaches him and smiles while patting him on the back. “Don’t worry you got this!”

The crowd starts chanting when the lights turn on as Viviana and Matteo approach the stage. They begin singing into their mics, Viviana doesn’t stop staring at him while Matteo’s eyes are fixated on Luna. He is in awe of how beautiful she looks tonight, even though he feels like Luna looks beautiful all the time.

Luna starts dancing along to the song with Nina, they don’t stop giggling and having a great time. Viviana starts noticing who Matteo can’t keep his eyes off of. She grows green with envy. She never liked Luna and was always hoping he would break up with her. She tries to get really close to him, even at times trying to have a sharing mic moment. Viviana throughout the song doesn’t stop making eye contact with Matteo and keeping him close. When she sees that this doesn’t Luna, or him she reacts quickly. Once the song ends, Viviana standing next to Matteo grabs his neck towards her and kisses him. She has her hand caress his cheek. The fans are screaming with excitement.

As for Luna, she’s speechless. It feels like the world has stopped and she has lost track of her surroundings. When Matteo pushes Viviana off him, he turns and sees Luna running out of the venue crying.

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kingstylesdaily · 4 years ago

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Stevie Nicks Answers All Our Questions About Harry Styles

Of all the disciples to worship at the altar of Stevie Nicks, none have managed to capture the attention of rock’s reigning priestess quite like Harry Styles.

The 26-year-old rocker (who this week received three Grammy nominations) is the Gucci-clad poster boy carrying the torch for a bygone era of music history that the Fleetwood Mac frontwoman helped crystallize. Styles recently cited the group’s 1977 (and still charting) classic “Dreams” as one of the first songs he learned the words to growing up. Their friendship began in 2015 after the former One Direction member presented his idol with a hand-piped birthday cake after a Fleetwood Mac gig in London. (“Glad she liked carrot cake,” he later said.) The years since have seen the duo’s mutual affection blossom into one of pop culture’s most cherished bondings.

Last year, when Styles inducted Nicks into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, he proclaimed the 72-year-old “everything you’ve ever wanted in a lady, a lover, in a friend.” Nicks has gushed about him in interviews as everything from “the son she never had” to her “love child” with bandmate Mick Fleetwood. Styles earned her official seal of approval after covering “The Chain” every night of his first solo tour in support of a record that sounds closer to Crosby, Stills & Nash than anything he released under his prior band.

“Harry could’ve lost a lot of fans, but he didn’t,” Nicks recently told Vogue over the phone. “I’m so proud of him because he took a risk and didn’t go the One Direction route. He loves One Direction, I love One Direction, and a gazillion other people do too, but Harry didn’t wanna go the pop route. He wanted straight-up rock and roll circa 1975.”

Nicks has been embracing some of the busiest years of her dual careers as both Fleetwood Mac frontwoman and solo sorceress—and doing so amid a global pandemic. Since she last performed with Styles at the Forum for his Fine Line release show in December, she’s released a 24 Karat Gold concert film and “Show Them the Way,” her politically minded single and first piece of original music in six years. After Miley Cyrus asked for Nicks’s blessing before releasing her “Edge of Seventeen”–tinged “Midnight Sky,” the two joined forces for an exhilarating new mash-up titled “Edge of Midnight.”

In honor of Styles making history as the magazine’s first solo cover boy, Nicks caught up with Vogue to answer all our questions about their cosmic connection. Currently beachside with her quarantine bubble in Hawaii, she’s been doing what one would expect Stevie Nicks to be up to during a pandemic: writing new music, dancing around her house to “Watermelon Sugar,” and “casting little spells.” As befitting rock’s foremost storyteller, our intended 30-minute chat turned into a two-hour confessional about her love of Styles, working with Cyrus for the first time, joining Fleetwood Mac, the president-elect Joe Biden, the Met Gala, betta fish funerals, and much more.

ksd note: edited to only include Q&A about Stevie and Harry!

Did you get a chance to look through Harry’s cover story yet?

Right before I called you, I sat here and looked at all the pictures on my new iPad. What can I say? That’s my Harry. I think the thing that’s most wonderful about him—and I’ve told him this, and sometimes I think he takes it the wrong way—is that he’s such a kooky guy. He’s the type of person you’d wanna live next door to. He’d look out the window, see you having a hard time planting flowers, and rush out asking, “Can I help you with those roses?” “Sure, but you are Harry Styles, right?” That’s who he is.

I really only know him to a certain extent, but I have gotten to experience some big moments in his life, like when he released his first solo record at the Troubadour. I always think of Tom Petty saying, “So, you wanna be a rock star or you wanna be a pop star?” It’s two completely different things, and he really could have gone pop like his friend Zayn [Malik]. I was sorry that Zayn didn’t keep going more because I thought he was really good. But he took the pop route, which I think was right for him. Harry could’ve lost a lot of fans doing rock and roll, but he didn’t. Harry did a long tour with that first record and said, “I’m a different person now. I have a full-on rock band, and this is what I’m gonna do.” With many of my records, I’ll stuff down peoples’ throats until they like it, and that’s exactly what he did. Then he went away and wrote Fine Line, one of my favorite records.

What were your immediate thoughts listening to Fine Line for the first time?

Me and four of my friends sat with Harry in his living room in London and listened to it a few times before it came out. But it wasn’t really Fine Line yet. The first time we listened to it, nobody really said anything. The second time everyone started to go, “I think this song is great, but it should be second in the sequence.” By the third listen, it was five girls screaming, “Well, Harry really now, I think you need to take these four that are called Harry Songs and do this and that—” while he’s sinking in his reclining chair thinking, Are these women ever gonna leave? Thanks for your opinions, but oh, my God, stop already.

What changed when you heard the record in it’s finished form?

This record means a lot to me. When it was all put together, I listened and said, “Oh, my god, the Beatles live.” A whole lot of people live in these songs. Fleetwood Mac lives there. I live there. When I listen to “Fine Line,” I hear melodies that would’ve worked on “A Day in the Life. “It has that same kind of complexity. I think the Beatles would’ve thought, Here we’ve influenced a young man who took some incredible things from us and made them his own years and years later.

Earlier this year you posted a message saying that Fine Line is Harry’s Rumours. Can you elaborate on what you meant by that?

When Harry asked me to do “Landslide” with him at the Forum, I asked why, and he said, “Because I want you to be there. You were there for my first night at the Troubadour for the first record.” That night I wrote him a letter that said, “This is your Rumours so you have to really respect it and adore it because these kinds of records sometimes don’t ever come again.” Fleetwood Mac went on to make many great records, but people would bet their life on the fact that Rumours was the one. And this might just be the one for Harry. We were all kind of the same age when we made Rumours. I was 28, and Lindsey [Buckingham] was 27. I actually don’t even know how old Harry is—he’s that timeless to me.

Do you have a personal favorite of his songs?

Every one represents a different thing to me. “Sunflower” is such a great little song. He loves to do crazy videos, and one time I called him and said, “I have an idea. You’re gonna be a bee, and the sunflower would be your girlfriend, and you guys would get married and live in a beehive with your little bee children. You’d sing the lyrics ‘kiss in the kitchen like it’s a dance floor duh duh duh’ and show this entire bee relationship.”

What did he think of that pitch?

When I finished, the other end of the phone was silent. I said, “No, really, think about it. It’ll be fantastical like a Francis Ford Coppola movie.” He’s like, “Yeah, okay...” [laughs]. I also love the “Adore You” video with the little fish because I have my own special relationships with fish.

In what sense?

I always have two beta fish, but they have to be separated otherwise they’ll kill each other. I stick my finger into their aquarium, and the blue one will swim around my hand like a little dolphin. When my fish get old and suddenly die, I have funerals for them in my backyard where I play Celine Dion. I have them filmed, and everything [laughs]. It’s too much, but I thankfully haven’t had any recent fish deaths. I haven’t even been able to sit down and show Harry the videos of my little fish, so when I saw the “Adore You” video, I couldn’t believe it.

Why is it important for you to foster these relationships with younger artists like Harry who’ve been so openly influenced by you?

I’m inspired by them. I’m inspired that Miley wants to make music with me. I’m inspired that the Haim girls are my biggest fans—and I theirs. A lot of these kids are making the amazing records I’ve been waiting for them to make. I’m not like other 72-year-olds. I listen to current music because I want to be current. When people find out how old I am versus the music I’m listening to, they think it doesn’t gel at all. I’ve been collecting musical knowledge since I was in the fourth grade listening to the singles my grandfather used to bring home. I listened to Buddy Holly and the Everly Brothers until the sixth grade when R&B radio became Top 40. I said goodbye country and hello R&B, so it’s not like I’m ever stuck on one thing. What I love about Harry is that he’s very old school but still modern. And that’s kinda like me.

You both also transitioned from massive groups to equally massive solo careers rather seamlessly.

When I decided I wanted to be a solo artist, I’d only been in Fleetwood Mac for a few years. I tried to figure out a way to do it gracefully because I didn’t wanna break up the band. I just wanted to sit at my piano and write poetry. After we did a record and a really long tour, the band scurried off to different parts of the world while I’d just be home writing songs for a year and a half. What did they care what I did while they were all on vacation? I’ve always said all the way through these two careers I’ve had: If you’re in a band first, never break it up.

Do you think One Direction would ever reunite?

I think it’s a good idea. For all we know, One Direction is completely broken up forever. But I think those guys are friends, and five or ten years down the road, they could all go, “You know what, wouldn’t it be really fun to do a One Direction tour?” Because that’s what people do. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did reunite at some point just because they can. And because it would just be fun. Harry is the kind of person who would never stomp on that idea. He would never say, [imitates posh English accent] “Never! I would never do that again!” Because why not just keep the door open?

Was there any particular detail or passage in Harry’s cover story that stuck out to you?

According to this article, he can get in a car with his friend to drive all over Europe then drive back by himself. I stopped driving in 1978 because my driver’s license expired and I’d already made a lot of money. I very smartly thought, “You know what, if someone even hits you and it’s not even your fault but you’re a little drunk, you are done. You’re finished, and the fortune that you’ve made is gone, so why should you drive anyway?” By then me and Christine were very cloistered, but Harry’s able to live a freer life because he’s a guy. He’s like Mick. He has a free life.

Would you say that you don’t?

I’m only comparing us in the way that Harry goes off to the Bahamas to work on songs, then flies back to L.A., then London, then Italy—I can’t do that. I can’t do that by myself. He’s able to do whatever he wants by himself, and it’s a whole different way of life. Being that Harry is a guy, he’s able to be a loner more than I am. As a woman, I’m not free to do all that. Even when I was his age, I couldn’t just get off anywhere I wanted. When we were on the road, Christine and I didn’t have a clue in the world what the boys did. We went to our rooms with security guys standing outside. It’s not like we ever escaped to go club-hopping in downtown Manhattan. We never got to live that life, so freedom as Harry knows it is very different than it’s been for me.

Did you ever have any figure in your life who provided some sense of mentorship the way you have to artists like Harry?

I didn’t really have anyone. If I had any guiding force at all, it probably would’ve been Christine McVie because she was five years older than me. And five years is five years, you know? Chris was friends with Eric Clapton and knew all the famous musicians in London. She’d married John [McVie] and done a bunch of records with Fleetwood Mac before I came along, so she’d been in the music business for a long time. I was breaking up with Lindsey when she was breaking up with John. She was my therapist and my go-to person for just about everything. We had each other to get through that really difficult situation where no one was gonna quit the band. Christine and I kept the whole thing together by telling the three men, “You quit because we’re not stopping” Thank God I had her, but on the other side of that, thank God she had me. We really were a force of nature.

** I’m curious to what extent fashion plays a role in your and Harry’s relationship. Have you** gifted him any accessories that were significant to you?

I actually gave him a ring at the Forum thing. It’s very masculine and has a pink stone in it. I told him it was a pink diamond, but it really isn’t. It would’ve cost $5 million. It was mine, and I really loved it, but I thought, This should be for Harry. You can see it on his hands in the “Falling” video where he’s playing the piano. If Harry and I were in a band together, we’d be trading all kinds of crazy stuff.

What are your thoughts on him being the first solo male cover in Vogue’s history?

It makes me feel so inspired. I’m extremely jealous he’s on the cover of Vogue because I’m 72 years old and have wanted to be on the cover my whole life. I’m such a magazine hag, so I’m incredibly jealous of Harry, but I’ll get over it. As far as all the crazy things he’s wearing, you do whatever you have to do to be on the cover of Vogue. I’m very proud of him, and I think it’s great that there’s a man on the cover…but I should’ve been in the corner off in the distance [laughs]. Did you know I’ve never been to the Met Gala?

We would be honored to have you at the next gala and every one after that. I’m putting this in the article to make sure it’s in the public record.

As Mick Jagger says, “We still have our freedom, but we don’t have much time.” I would like to be not much older than I am now so I can wear a fantastic outfit and entertain everybody. It’s a dream of mine, and most of my dreams have come true, but I need to not be 90 when it happens.

Harry and you could perform together.

We wouldn’t even have to rehearse. We’ve got a couple of duets that are really great. We do “Landslide” and “Two Ghosts” together really well. We actually have five or six terrific acoustic numbers that we could do at the drop of a hat.

You hinted earlier this year that there might be a role for Harry in the miniseries based on the stories of Rhiannon. Is there any update there?

This is probably the third-biggest thing I’ve ever done in my life after Fleetwood Mac and my solo career. There’s a lot to be done in the movie business before I can start riding my horses across the mountains of Wales. I’ve signed with a movie company—I’m not gonna tell you who—and we just signed a writer. I’m not gonna tell you who that is either, but there’s an amazing part for Harry. My favorite character in the series is the only man who goes through all four books. He’s a magician who doesn’t wanna be king, and I think Harry would just be so perfect.

Have you and Harry discussed collaborating on any future music together?

We’re open to making music together because we’ve been very successful when we go onstage just to do one song. I would love to be in a band with Harry, but even if I never saw him in person again, he’s made a record that breaks my heart in a million places like Fine Line. As far as music goes, there’s plenty of fun things that he and I could do. We can just reach out to each other and do it. I’m always ready to slip back into those high-heel black suede boots and become my alter ego.

via Vogue.com

#kingstylesdaily #Harry Styles #hs: mention #Stevie Nicks #november 2020

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hlupdate · 4 years ago

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Of all the disciples to worship at the altar of Stevie Nicks, none have managed to capture the attention of rock's reigning priestess quite like Harry Styles.

The 26-year old rocker (who this week received three Grammy nominations) is the Gucci-clad poster-boy carrying the torch for a bygone era of music history that the Fleetwood Mac front-woman helped crystallize. Styles recently cited the group's 1977 (and still charting) classic “Dreams” as one of the first songs he learned the words to growing up. Their friendship began in 2015 after the former One Direction member presented his idol with a hand-piped birthday cake after a Fleetwood Mac gig in London. (“Glad she liked carrot cake,” he later said.) The years since have seen the duo's mutual affection blossom into one of pop culture‘s most cherished bondings.

Last year, when Styles inducted Nicks into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, he proclaimed the 72-year old “everything you’ve ever wanted in a lady, a lover, in a friend.” Nicks has gushed about him in interviews as everything from “the son she never had” to the “love child” of her and bandmate Mick Fleetwood. Styles earned her official seal of approval after covering “The Chain” every night of his first solo tour in support of a record that sounds closer to Crosby, Stills & Nash than anything he released under his prior band.

“Harry could've lost a lot of fans but he didn't. I’m so proud of him because he took a risk and didn’t go the One Direction route," Nicks recently told Vogue over the phone. "He loves One Direction, I love One Direction, and a gazillion other people do too, but Harry didn't wanna go the pop route. He wanted straight-up rock-and-roll circa 1975.”

Nicks has been embracing some of the busiest years of her dual careers as both Fleetwood Mac front-woman and solo sorceress—and doing so in the midst of a global pandemic. Since she last performed with Styles at the Forum for his Fine Line release show in December, she’s released a 24 Karat Gold concert film and “Show Them the Way,” her politically-minded single and first piece of original music in six years. After Miley Cyrus asked for Nicks's blessing before releasing her “Edge of Seventeen”-tinged “Midnight Sky,” the two joined forces for an exhilarating new mash-up titled “Edge of Midnight."

In honor of Styles making history as the magazine’s first solo cover-boy, Nicks caught up with Vogue to answer all our questions about their cosmic connection. Currently beachside with her quarantine bubble in Hawaii, she’s been doing what one would expect Stevie Nicks to be up to during a pandemic: writing new music, dancing around her house to “Watermelon Sugar“ and “casting little spells.” As befitting rock’s foremost storyteller, our intended 30-minute chat turned into a two-hour confessional about her love of Styles, working with Cyrus for the first time, joining Fleetwood Mac, the president-elect Joe Biden, the Met Gala, betta fish funerals, and much more.

Did you get a chance to look through Harry's cover story yet?

Right before I called you I sat here and looked at all the pictures on my new iPad. What can I say? That's my Harry. I think the thing that’s most wonderful about him—and I've told him this and sometimes I think he takes it the wrong way—is that he’s such a kooky guy. He’s the type of person you'd wanna live next door to. He’d look out the window, see you having a hard time planting flowers and rush out asking "Can I help you with those roses?" "Sure but you are Harry Styles, right?" That's who he is.

I really only know him to a certain extent but I have gotten to experience some big moments in his life like when he released his first solo record at the Troubadour. I always think of Tom Petty saying "So you wanna be a rock star or you wanna be a pop star?" It's two completely different things and he really could have gone pop like his friend Zayn [Malik]. I was sorry that Zayn didn't keep going more because I thought he was really good. But he took the pop route, which I think was right for him. Harry could've lost a lot of fans doing rock-and-roll but he didn't. Harry did a long tour with that first record and said “I'm a different person now. I have a full-on rock band and this is what I'm gonna do.” With many of my records I’ll stuff down peoples' throats until they like it and that's exactly what he did. Then he went away and wrote Fine Line, one of my favorite records.

What were your immediate thoughts listening to Fine Line for the first time?

Me and four of my friends sat with Harry in his living room in London and listened to it a few times before it came out. But it wasn't really Fine Line yet. The first time we listened to it nobody really said anything. The second time everyone started to go "I think this song is great but it should be second in the sequence." By the third listen it was five girls screaming "Well Harry really now, I think you need to take these four that are called "Harry Songs" and do this and that—” while he’s sinking in his reclining chair thinking "Are these women ever gonna leave? Thanks for your opinions but oh my god stop already."

What changed when you heard the record in it’s finished form?

This record means a lot to me. When it was all put together I listened and said "Oh my god, The Beatles live." A whole lot of people live in these songs. Fleetwood Mac lives there. I live there. When I listen to "Fine Line” I hear melodies that would've worked on “A Day in the Life.“ It has that same kind of complexity. I think the Beatles would've thought “Here we’ve influenced a young man who took some incredible things from us and made them his own years and years later.”

Earlier this year you posted a message saying that Fine Line is Harry’s Rumours. Can you elaborate on what you meant by that?

When Harry asked me to do "Landslide" with him at the Forum I asked why and he said "Because I want you to be there. You were there for my first night at the Troubadour for the first record.” That night I wrote him a letter that said “This is your Rumours so you have to really respect it and adore it because these kinds of records sometimes don't ever come again.” Fleetwood Mac went on to make many great records but people would bet their life on the fact that Rumours was the one. And this might just be the one for Harry. We were all kind of the same age when we made Rumours. I was 28 and Lindsey was 27. I actually don't even know how old Harry is—he's that timeless to me.

Do you have a personal favorite of his songs?

Every one represents a different thing to me. “Sunflower” is such a great little song. He loves to do crazy videos and one time I called him and said “I have an idea. You're gonna be a bee and the sunflower would be your girlfriend, and you guys would get married and live in a beehive with your little bee children. You’d sing the lyrics “kiss in the kitchen like it's a dance floor duh duh duh” and show this entire bee relationship.”

What did he think of that pitch?

When I finished the other end of the phone was silent. I said "No really, think about it. It’ll be fantastical like a Francis Ford Coppola movie.” He’s like “Yeah, okay...” (laughs). I also love the "Adore You” video with the little fish because I have my own special relationships with fish.

In what sense?

I always have two betta fish but they have to be separated otherwise they'll kill each other. I stick my finger into their aquarium and the blue one will swim around my hand like a little dolphin. When my fish get old and suddenly die I have funerals for them in my backyard where I play Celine Dion. I have them filmed and everything (laughs). It’s too much but I thankfully haven’t had any recent fish deaths. I haven't even been able to sit down and show Harry the videos of my little fish so when I saw the “Adore You” video I couldn’t believe it.

Why is it important for you to foster these relationships with younger artists like Harry who’ve been so openly influenced by you?

I'm inspired by them. I'm inspired that Miley wants to make music with me. I’m inspired that the Haim girls are my biggest fans—and I theirs. A lot of these kids are making the amazing records I’ve been waiting for them to make. I’m not like other 72-year olds. I listen to current music because I want to be current. When people find out how old I am versus the music I'm listening to they think it doesn't gel at all. I’ve been collecting musical knowledge since I was in the fourth grade listening to the singles my grandfather used to bring home. I listened to Buddy Holly and the Everly Brothers until the sixth grade when R&B radio became Top 40. I said goodbye country and hello R&B, so it’s not like I'm ever stuck on one thing. What I love about Harry is that he's very old-school but still modern. And that's kinda like me.

You both also transitioned from massive groups to equally massive solo careers rather seamlessly.

When I decided I wanted to be a solo artist I'd only been in Fleetwood Mac for a few years. I tried to figure out a way to do it gracefully because I didn’t wanna break up the band. I just wanted to sit at my piano and write poetry. After we did a record and a really long tour the band scurried off to different parts of the world while I’d just be home writing songs for a year and a half. What did they care what I did while they were all on vacation? I’ve always said all the way through these two careers I've had: if you're in a band first, never break it up.

I know Beyoncé because I spent a day with Destiny’s Child making the “Bootylicious” video. I owe them a debt of gratitude because that’s the one time I ever got to pretend I played rock-and-roll guitar! But when Beyoncé made the decision to be a solo artist she did not see herself going back to Destiny's Child every couple of years. And that's a perfectly acceptable decision because sometimes that's what people wanna do. I, on the other hand, said why not have the ability to go back to Fleetwood Mac whenever I want? Being a Gemini I get bored really easily, so being able to have those two careers was great.

Do you think One Direction would ever reunite?

I think it's a good idea. For all we know, One Direction is completely broken up forever. But I think those guys are friends and five or ten years down the road they could all go "You know what, wouldn't it be really fun to do a One Direction tour?" Because that's what people do. I wouldn't be surprised if they did reunite at some point just because they can. And because it would just be fun. Harry is the kind of person who would never stomp on that idea. He would never say (imitates posh English accent) "Never! I would never do that again!" Because why not just keep the door open?

Was there any particular detail or passage in Harry’s cover story that stuck out to you?

According to this article he can get in a car with his friend to drive all over Europe then drive back by himself. I stopped driving in 1978 because my driver's license expired and I'd already made a lot of money. I very smartly thought "You know what, if someone even hits you and it's not even your fault but you're a little drunk, you are done. You're finished and the fortune that you've made is gone, so why should you drive anyway?” By then me and Christine were very cloistered, but Harry's able to live a freer life because he's a guy. He's like Mick. He has a free life.

Would you say that you don’t?

I'm only comparing us in the way that Harry goes off to the Bahamas to work on songs then flies back to LA then London then Italy—I can't do that. I can't do that by myself. He's able to do whatever he wants by himself and it's a whole different way of life. Being that Harry is a guy, he's able to be a loner more than I am. As a woman I'm not free to do all that. Even when I was his age I couldn't just get off anywhere I wanted. When we were on the road Christine and I didn't have a clue in the world what the boys did. We went to our rooms with security guys standing outside. It's not like we ever escaped to go club-hopping in downtown Manhattan. We never got to live that life so freedom as Harry knows it is very different than it’s been for me.

Did you ever have any figure in your life who provided some sense of mentorship the way you have to artists like Harry?

I didn't really have anyone. If I had any guiding force at all it probably would've been Christine McVie because she was five years older than me. And five years is five years, you know? Chris was friends with Eric Clapton and knew all the famous musicians in London. She’d married John [McVie] and done a bunch of records with Fleetwood Mac before I came along so she'd been in the music business for a long time. I was breaking up with Lindsey when she was breaking up with John. She was my therapist and my go-to person for just about everything. We had each other to get through that really difficult situation where no one was gonna quit the band. Christine and I kept the whole thing together by telling the three men "You quit because we're not stopping” Thank god I had her, but I think on the other side of that thank god she had me. We really were a force of nature.

I’m curious to what extent fashion plays a role in your and Harry’s relationship. Have you gifted him any accessories that were significant to you?

I actually gave him a ring at the Forum thing. It’s very masculine and has a pink stone in it. I told him it was a pink diamond but it really isn't, it would've cost $5 million. It was mine and I really loved it but I thought "This should be for Harry.” You can see it on his hands in the "Falling" video where he’s playing the piano. If Harry and I were in a band together we’d be trading all kinds of crazy stuff.

How did you come to decide on your all-black stage uniform?

I started getting paid when I joined Fleetwood Mac but up until then I didn't have any money to buy food. All of a sudden we were going on tour so I just packed up my normal clothes. We started eating because there was room service and there I was gaining ten pounds in the middle of the tour. I didn't fit in any of the clothes and I didn't have time to shop so when I got home I said “I can never do this again.” I knew a friend who knew a designer and I told her I needed a uniform because I can't be thinking about what I wanna wear every night. It makes it so much easier since everybody that's in Pittsburgh isn't necessarily gonna be in Philadelphia. Harry's done the same thing with his white pants and pink shirt.

What are your thoughts on him being the first solo male cover in Vogue’s history?

It makes me feel so inspired. I'm extremely jealous he's on the cover of Vogue because I'm seventy-two years old and have wanted to be on the cover my whole life. I’m such a magazine hag, so I’m incredibly jealous of Harry but I'll get over it. As far as all the crazy things he's wearing, you do whatever you have to do to be on the cover of Vogue. I'm very proud of him and I think it's great that there's a man on the cover… but I should've been in the corner off in the distance (laughs). Did you know I've never been to the Met Gala?

We would be honored to have you at the next gala and every one after that. I’m putting this in the article to make sure it’s in the public record.

As Mick Jagger says, "We still have our freedom, but we don't have much time." I would like to be not much older than I am now so I can wear a fantastic outfit and entertain everybody. It's a dream of mine and most of my dreams have come true, but I need to not be ninety when it happens.

Harry and you could perform together.

We wouldn't even have to rehearse. We've got a couple of duets that are really great. We do "Landslide" and “Two Ghosts” together really well. We actually have five or six terrific acoustic numbers that we could do at the drop of a hat.

You hinted earlier this year that there might be a role for Harry in the miniseries based on the stories of Rhiannon. Is there any update there?

This is probably the third-biggest thing I've ever done in my life after Fleetwood Mac and my solo career. There’s a lot to be done in the movie business before I can start riding my horses across the mountains of Wales. I've signed with a movie company—I'm not gonna tell you who—and we just signed a writer. I'm not gonna tell you who that is either but there’s an amazing part for Harry. My favorite character in the series is the only man who goes through all four books. He's a magician who doesn't wanna be king and I think Harry would just be so perfect.

Have you and Harry discussed collaborating on any future music together?

We're open to making music together because we've been very successful when we go onstage just to do one song. I would love to be in a band with Harry but even if I never saw him in person again he’s made a record that breaks my heart in a million places like Fine Line. As far as music goes there's plenty of fun things that he and I could do. We can just reach out to each other and do it. I’m always ready to slip back into those high-heel black suede boots and become my alter ego.

This interview has been edited for clarity and space.

#harry styles #stevie nicks #vogue magazine #251120

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mel-at-dusk · 4 years ago

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SEX, LIES AND CHEAP COLOGNE: AN ORAL HISTORY OF ABERCROMBIE & FITCH’S SOFTCORE PORN MAG

The story of how an oversexed, strangely intellectual magazine by a polo shirt brand completed the improbable task of changing the course of sexuality in America’s malls, homes and moose-print boxers

Abercrombie & Fitch CEO Mike Jeffries was a shrewd businessman, but he didn’t always make the best decisions. Between the blatantly racist T-shirts he signed off on, the child thongs he called “cute” and the series of public statements he made admitting that his brand intentionally excluded anyone who wasn’t “cool” and “good-looking” with “great attitudes and a lot of friends,” it’s no wonder that he spent the majority of his reign at Abercrombie in hot water. (For the uninitiated, Abercrombie made what fashion writer Natasha Stagg calls “sexy versions of the clothes kids already wore to school: T-shirts and jeans, stuff you could toss a football in or throw on the grass if everyone decided to go skinny-dipping.” More importantly, as she writes in her book Sleeveless, it was “for those who were casually peaking in high school.” It, meanwhile, peaked in the 1990s.)

An exception to Jeffries’ questionable CEO-ing would be A&F Quarterly, the glorious, controversial and questionably pornographic “magalog” he created at the height of the brand’s popularity in 1997 in order to connect “youth and sex” to its image. Woven in amongst surprisingly thoughtful interviews with A-list humans like Spike Lee, Bret Easton Ellis, Rudy Guiliani and Lil’ Kim was a cascade of naked photos from photographer Bruce Weber which showed nubile youngs in various states of undress. They were frolicking, they were caressing and they were deep in the throes of experimenting with types of sex that — at the time — had never been portrayed by mainstream brands.

With issue titles such as “XXX,” “The Pleasure Principle” and “Naughty and Nice,” the Quarterly dove headfirst into the risque. During its 25-issue run between 1997 and 2003, it printed interviews with porn star Jenna Jameson, offered sex advice on how to “go down” in public and suggested — on multiple occasions — that its readers dabble in group sex. One issue published an article on how to be a “Web exhibitionist,” another featured a Slovenian philosopher barking orders to “learn sex” at school and big-dick Ron Jeremy even stopped by to talk about performing oral sex on himself and using a cast made from his own penis.

The actual Abercrombie clothing being modeled in the magalog was an afterthought, appearing in Weber’s photos as more of an impediment to nudity than an actual, purchasable item. The whole thing was, as journalist Harris Sockel put it in an Human Parts essay, “20 percent merch, 20 percent talk and 100 percent soft-core aspirational porn.”

None of this would have been vexing had a more adult-oriented brand been the ones hawking it, but Abercrombie & Fitch was — and still is — marketed toward suspiciously toned teenage field hockey players named Brett. Though he might have looked like a man in his big salmon-pink polo, Brett was but a child. Abercrombie was fond of saying its clothing was for college-aged clientele, but we all knew where its real haute runway took place — inside the crowded halls of every middle school in Ohio.

The Quarterly, too, was intended for college kids, and to prove it, Abercrombie shrink-wrapped it in plastic and sold only to those over 18 for $6 a pop. You could buy it as a subscription, of course, but it was more commonly found in-store, nestled alongside A&F’s cargo shorts and “thongs for 10-year-olds,” a questionable placement that prompted concerned parents, conservatives and Christians to accuse Abercrombie of sullying their children’s minds with impure thoughts.

As such, the Quarterly became the subject of a mounting number of boycotts, protests and controversies that some believe were responsible for its eventual demise. By the time circulation peaked at 1.2 million in 2003, it had been denounced by organizations like the National Coalition for the Protection of Children and Families, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, the American Decency Association, Focus on the Family, the National Organization for Women and, of course, the Catholic League.

Yet the outrage against the Quarterly was matched — if not exceeded — by its cult following, who found its frank portrayal of sexuality to be transcendent. Journalists, artists and the teens whose hands it fell into adored the magazine, and its rarity — plus its utter absurdity — makes it a sought-after collector’s item to this day.

At the same time, few people know about the Quarterly and even fewer realize what it meant to the generations of young people discovering themselves and their sexualities through the unlikely lens of branded content. As journalist Emily Lever puts it, “There’s no weirder way to learn about sex than to pick up a magazine by Abercrombie & Fitch — a brand for hot, mean mostly white kids who shoved you into lockers — but, I guess I’ll take it?”

This is the story of how an oversexed and strangely intellectual magazine by a polo shirt brand completed the improbable task of changing the course of sexuality in America’s malls, homes and moose-print boxers.

AND IN THE BEGINNING, THERE WAS ASS

The first issue A&F Quarterly debuted in June 1997. With 70-ish pages of full-color hard bodies, it was relatively tame compared to later editions, but it quickly became popular when Abercrombie’s nubile clientele realized it was a paper-backed portal into an adult world of sex, nudity and the kind of unbridled sensory hedonism their parents warned them about. As rumors of its legend began to spread, people began to wonder: What the hell is A&F Quarterly, and why is it printing ass for teens?

Emily Lever, journalist and chronicler of the Quarterly’s absurdist philosophical leanings: A&F Quarterly was an in-house magazine put together by Abercrombie & Fitch that published a who’s who of literati to accompany their images of young adult and teen bodies in order to hawk expensive distressed jeans and polo shirts to kids who would shove you inside a locker.

Alissa Quart, author of Branded: The Buying and Selling of Teenagers and director of the Economic Hardship Reporting Project: From what I recall, it had a Bruce Weber-y vibe — gorgeous young men and teens unapologetically objectified, a leering retro pin-up element, also sort of like the highly stylized, sexed-up, nostalgic 1980s and 1990s black-and-white Guess ads. Men — boys, really — were photographed without their shirts, elaborately muscled abs, sometimes naked.

Harris Sockel, in his Human Parts essay: [It was] Playboy crossed with Fratmen.com and a bit of Field & Stream. The Quarterly made my hormones do a kick line across my frontal lobe. I wanted to nibble the soy ink for snack until sunrise. To absorb it so deeply I sweat grey drops onto my pillow. To rip a page from that issue and fold it into a paper flower and stick it all the way up my ass until it came out my mouth.

Lever: Yeah, it was hot. But it was also extraordinarily literary. It featured big-time thinkers, writers and philosophers — stuff that was supposedly intended to expand your mind. It was way too high-brow for the average Abercrombie teen, and its existence made almost no sense given what the brand represented.

Savas Abadsidis, editor-in-chief, 1997-2003: There was nothing else like it. We were the first mainstream brand to combine playful, irreverent, intellectual content with sex and youth in this beautiful, high-art magazine format. Was it controversial? Sure. But it made the entire country take notice.

What they didn’t necessarily see, however, was what was going on behind the scenes. Not only were we the first brand to do this kind of advertising, we were also the first big brand to normalize gay culture for a mainstream audience, expose America’s youth to some of the era’s most progressive thinkers and use our platform to address sexuality in a useful, hands-on way. And you wouldn’t necessarily expect that from Abercrombie. That’s what made it so cool.

It all began in 1996. I was 22 and working at a temp job for a prominent New York architect who happened to be friends with Sam Shahid, a big-time creative director for Calvin Klein, Banana Republic and later, Abercrombie & Fitch. He was looking for an assistant. I had taken a deferment to go to law school and was looking for a job for that interim year, so I applied. I got in.

It was a horrible gig at first. Just awful, Devil Wears Prada-type stuff. I left crying many nights. But I had two things going for me. The first was that Abercrombie had a really small office in the West Village. Mike Jeffries, the president and CEO of Abercrombie, used to come in. He wore flip flops, had a desk made out of a surfboard and began each sentence with the word “Dude.”

Mike Jeffries, ex-CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch, speaking to Salon in 2006: Dude, I’m not an old fart who wears his jeans up at his shoulders.

Abadsidis: I didn’t know it at the time, but Mike was gay (I wouldn’t find out until much later). I think that was part of the reason why he and Sam — who was also gay — took me under their wing. They actually didn’t realize that I was, too — it’s not like we all sat around a bonfire at Fire Island and talked about how us gay guys were infiltrating Abercrombie — but that dynamic dovetailed nicely with Bruce’s photography for both the brand and the Quarterly, and it certainly set the tone for what was to come. I was grateful to get what amounted to an unofficial apprenticeship from both Mike and Sam, and eventually, they had me doing much more involved tasks than I was hired to do.

One of them was sitting in on important meetings. At the time, Mike was inviting all these different editors from magazines like Interview, Men’s Journal and Rolling Stone to come in and brainstorm ideas for what the Quarterly could be, but their ideas were flat. They felt like ideas coming from 45-year-olds writing for college kids, and I could tell Mike was getting frustrated by how little they seemed to grasp what he wanted.

One day in a meeting, one of the magazine editors threw out an idea. Without even acknowledging him, Mike turned to me. “Savas,” he asked. “What do you think about that?”

My mind raced — I could tell he was testing me. If I flubbed the answer, I’d be done. I briefly considered censoring myself, but then I thought better. What did I have to lose? I was young. Surely, I’d find another summer job. “I don’t think it’s a great idea,” I told him.

Apparently, that was the right answer. Mike practically threw the guy out of the room.

After that, I started to think more about what I’d want to see out of a magazine. I was just out of college as a French comparative literature major at Vassar, and I was super into that sort of 1950s-style Esquire journalism with the dapper closing essay. I was deep into The New Yorker, Interview Magazine, 1990s-era Details, MAD Magazine and 1980s pop star mags like Tiger Beat, too — those were all an influence. I also loved philosophy, social theory and comics. And graphic novels. You know — college stuff. Then it hit me: If the magazine was for people like me, why not get actual college kids — not 50-year-olds — to create our content?

I suspected my ideas were what they were looking for and knew they’d look fresh compared to what other editors were throwing out, so I decided to take a risk. I got up at 2 a.m. and typed out a 20-page proposal for what I thought the Quarterly should be. The next morning, I faxed a copy to Mike. I left another on Sam’s desk.

About a (very anxious) week later, Sam called me into his office and told me to pick up his phone. Mike was on the other line. As I reached for the receiver, he leaned over to me and said, “Who the fuck do you think you are?”

I didn’t even have time to comprehend what that meant before Mike’s voice was in my ear. “Congratulations, kid,” he told me. “You get one shot.”

Shortly thereafter, I was promoted from Sam’s assistant to the completely green, 23-year-old editor-in-chief of the Quarterly. It was a Jerry Maguire moment. I was thrilled and terrified at the same time.

They gave me a month to put together a staff and get the first issue out. Bruce Weber was named as its exclusive photographer — he’d already been shooting ads and campaigns for Abercrombie — and Sam was the creative director. As for me, I knew I’d need an editorial staff, and stat.

HOLY SHIT, THERE ARE NO LIMITS

Abadsidis quickly throws together a team composed of two college buddies, Patrick Carone and Gary Kon, who he describes as “pretty funny and stuff.” Carone became the only straight guy on the editorial side. Kon is Jewish and gay. The three of them vow to stay as true to the idealized college experience as possible with their content — even if it means chasing white whales.

Abadsidis: I can’t remember the exact starting budget, but it was upwards of a few million, probably much larger than most magazines get for their first issue! But our budget was also Bruce’s budget. He was getting advertising money, so we were well taken care of in that regard.

We weren’t really expected to turn a profit, though. That was never the point. Come to think of it, I don’t even think we tracked how much the magazine impacted clothing sales, although from what I can remember, clothing sales bumped up double digits every quarter after we launched (for a while, at least). [This statement is unverified.] But that didn’t matter: Our mission was just to set the brand image and make people aware of us. That was our version of success. We were also our only advertiser for a while, so we could get away with a lot of stuff that other publications couldn’t.

Gary Kon, managing editor, 1997-2003: When Savas offered me the job, I jumped at the opportunity. I’d already interned for Sam, and I’d have to scan hundreds of Bruce Weber images that he shot for Abercrombie as part of the job. And I fell in love with his work. It was the visual connection that seduced me. Weber’s photos were like a new Greek mythology; the men and women depicted in the photos were both idealized and sexualized. As a gay kid, who was pretty comfortable by that time in my own skin, I had no problem recognizing the eroticism in his work.

Abadsidis: Me, Gary and Patrick was definitely something special. I don’t think I’ll ever have an opportunity to create anything like that again. I was a huge comic book fan. If I had to describe it, it’s the closest thing I’ll ever come to Stan Lee’s Marvel comics bullpen. Pretty much everyone I hired was super unique. We weren’t all gay (maybe half of us were) but few of us really adhered to the Abercrombie image.

I think Sean came on in 2001.

Sean T. Collins, managing editor, 2001-2003: I was a little skittish about it at first because Abercrombie & Fitch represented everything I was not. They marketed, almost exclusively, to the lacrosse players that called me names I cannot repeat. It was very preppy, and that was not me at all.

I was alternative, maaan. I was a big fan of Nine Inch Nails. I wore a lot of black. A&F was everything I wasn’t, and in a way, everything that had tormented me as a kid. The irony of me working for them was palpable, but what I learned very quickly was that at the Quarterly, you could do anything that you wanted.

One of my first articles was an interview with Clive Barker, the writer and director of Hellraiser (he also wrote Candyman). Now, if you’ve seen Hellraiser, you can imagine just how far of a departure a sadomasochistic horror film was from Abercrombie & Fitch, but getting him to sign on was easy. He’s gay, and at the time, he was super ripped. I think he appreciated the extravagant gayness of the Weber stuff in particular. He was also a photographer, and his husband was, too. I think he recognized what was going on with the photography.

We had an unlimited expense budget, so I took him out for drinks at the Four Seasons. I talked to him for hours, and then he invited me to go back to his house and hang out and see his art studio. He had three mansions in a row on Sunset in Los Angeles, up in the hills. One for his office, one for his actual domicile and one that was a painting studio. I got to see that. I was just a 23-year-old kid. This was my first job out of college, and I felt like Cameron Crowe from Almost Famous. After that, I was like, “Holy shit, there are no limits.”

Kon: I have to credit Savas with pushing us to work without limitations. We were very lucky. At some point during my tenure, I realized that as long as we worked within our (sizable) budget, we had almost full autonomy. We could plan trips to Hollywood to shoot our favorite actors. We could travel to Thailand to reenact our version of The Beach. We could tag along to London or Rome or wherever Bruce was shooting the catalog. We could stroll into the office at 11 a.m. and work until 11 p.m.

Collins: If I wanted to talk to Bettie Page, the pinup model from the 1950s, they’d be like, “Okay, sure.” If I wanted to feature Underworld, my favorite electronic music band, it was, “Sure, go ahead.” It was total editorial freedom, which was so strange knowing how specific of a person the “Abercrombie type was.” I’ve been writing for two decades now, and I’ve never experienced anything like it since.

Abadsidis: Everyone wanted to be in it, too. At first, it was just indie musicians. But then, in the second issue, we snagged Lil’ Kim. That’s when I knew we’d made it big. She was into it — she loved everything about the Quarterly. A lot of people did. The whole high-brow/low-brow thing was really appealing, and the idea of going to college, reading good books, getting drunk and having sex felt uniquely nostalgic and fresh in the context of America back then. Clinton was getting impeached for getting a blow job. It was just a weird, puritanical time, and the Quarterly gave people a national platform to let their freak flag fly.

We had Rudy Guiliani, early Britney Spears, Paula Abdul. There was the New York issue where we talked about the Harlem Renaissance. Spike Lee — one of my idols — asked me if he could be in it. He’d done advertising, you know? I remember him being like, “Yo, this is the deal. I’ve got to give you mad props. This is the dopest thing out right now, advertising-wise.”

We had big-time philosophers and literary figures, too. They were great. We wanted to mimic the experience of being in college and having your mind expanded, so we got writers like Bret Easton Ellis and Michael Cunningham on board. There was a whole Sex Ed issue plastered with musings from Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Žižek, a friend of a professor’s from college. I believe Jonathan Franzen was in there, too.

Jonathan Franzen, award-winning novelist and essayist: I gave hundreds of interviews between 1997 and 2003, almost all of them at the request of various publishers. One of them must have thought it was a good idea to talk to A&F. The fact that I apparently did (I don’t remember it) signifies nothing except that I felt grateful to my publishers.

Collins: We got a lot of weirdos, too. John Edward, the guy who talked to dead people. Chuck Palahniuk, who wrote Fight Club. At the time, it didn’t have the meathead reputation that it does now. It was legitimately looked at as this piece of anti-corporate, anti-capitalist art, the irony of which was just delightful given that we were a capitalist brand trying to sell polo shirts and $90 ripped jeans.

Abadsidis: The only guy who refused an interview was Donald Trump! I have a feeling his 90-year-old secretary had something to do with it. Though we were technically a magalog and did belong to the brand, our stuff was just really visionary. David Keeps, who was the editor of Details at the time, always defended the Quarterly as a real magazine and publicly said that we were doing more innovative stories than most “real” magazines at a time.

ASPIRATIONAL HOMOEROTICS

It’s no secret that the photography and creative direction of Weber and Shahid contained homoerotic undertones. Irreverent, minimal and moody, it was suggestive without being literal, spinning entire storylines into a single frame. At the same time, it was too idealized to be “real.” The queerness that their photos showed was, as Collins puts it, “aspirational,” meaning that like the mostly white, ab-riddled models instructed to sell cargo shorts by taking them off, they didn’t necessarily represent the full reality of what queerness actually was.

Still, the photos that the Quarterly published during its seven-year run did more to normalize and represent queerness and non-monogamy than any other mainstream brand at the time — weird, considering that Abercrombie’s target market was hegemonic suburbanites whose parents bred genetically pure golden retrievers and had cabins in Vail. Without these photos, the Quarterly might have read more as a minor-league Esquire or Ivy League MAD Magazine, but with them, it became one of the least-discussed, most under-appreciated items queer history.

Collins: Our editorial content — which almost functioned as a parody of so-called “Abercrombie people” — was always accompanied by this extremely beautiful photography that was also extremely queer. But it was never explicitly so. It was all this nudge, nudge, wink, wink stuff. I don’t know how you could miss it, though. The homoeroticism was so overt.

Abadsidis: You’d have had to have been blind not to consider the imagery homoerotic (though, it was really in the eye of the beholder). We had the Carlson twins posing on the cover and riding a motorcycle. We had a drag queen named Candis Cayne. There was a lesbian couple kissing at a wedding.

Kon: David Sedaris, Gus Van Sant, Gregg Araki, Avenue Q, Stan Lee, Peaches, Fischerspooner… you could teach a queer theory class with everyone we featured.

Abadsidis: At the same time, we never labeled anything as “gay” or “lesbian” or “queer.” We never came out and said, “Welcome to our gay magazine!” and we never had a meeting where we were like, “Okay, guys, let’s figure out how to make this thing gay.” It was more nonchalant. The imagery implied it without saying it.

Hampton Carney, A&F Quarterly spokesperson, 1999-2003: The message we were sending was clear: “You do you, whatever that is. Have fun!”

Abadsidis: That was a very 1990s thing.

Collins: There was a specific brand of Abercrombie gayness that got shown, though. The word that they always used to describe Abercrombie as a brand was “aspirational.” They didn’t want to make it like an everyday, normal-people brand. They wanted it to be associated with money, glamour and that WASP-y aesthetic. So all the gay raunch of it was presented within the context of what appeared to be a very square, nuclear family: white, wealthy and secure.

At the same time, that was really when same-sex marriage was kicking off as a political issue. I think you can see a commonality in how Abercrombie was essentially making an argument that you could be a normie and also be gay. That was a newish thing at the time (though I’m barely an expert as I’m not gay myself). Still, I can’t help but see a resonance between coming up with this clandestine content that normalized being gay at the same time this big political fight that was brewing.

Maybe being more forward about it would have come across as “too political.”

Abadsidis: Part of me wishes we’d gone a little further with being more outwardly queer, but I don’t think the time was right. Maybe with a braver CEO — no one at the time was brave enough to take on queerness or gay rights as a mainstream brand, including us — and that’s why few people remember the Quarterly as the sort of transcendent queer thing that it was.

Kon: It’s never been credited as such, but the Quarterly is really an item of gay history. I don’t think we were pushing a “gay” or “metrosexual” lifestyle on people as much as we were showing that it already existed, even out in Middle America. Perhaps that’s what made people uncomfortable. We took that thread of counterculture and taboo that ran through the imagery and continued it into the editorial content. We dealt with topics like drinking, drugs, religion, politics and sex. Again, these are issues young people dealt with daily, but were rarely editorialized.

At Vassar, there was a yearly party called The Homo Hop. It was one of the biggest parties of the year and leaned on Vassar’s history as a women’s college. I bring this up because, on the night of my freshman Homo Hop, I was instructed that each student had to do something sexually that they had never done, and one drug that they had never done. It wasn’t that you had to be gay, but you had to experience something that was new and different. I think that translated well into the Quarterly. Yes, there were a bunch of gay guys writing and shooting and drawing images. But we were simply trying to expose Cargo Short Brett to ideas, images, artists, books, writers and directors that he may have never heard of before. Our shared experiences would become his.

Collins: It was culture jamming, really.

Abadsidis: It was also very “college” to be fluid or experimental without labeling it. I think it’s safe to say that college is one of the gayest places there is in life, maybe not sexually, but definitely in terms of having your mind expanded about different types of people.

Carney: I was in a frat. I’d see fraternity brothers streaking across campus together. It was never a big deal. There are a lot more people in the middle of either extreme of sexuality than people talk about. We’re not one and 10 — we’re one through 10, if you will. That kind of stuff has always happened on college campuses, and that’s the kind of mentality we had around sex. We just happened to editorialize it really beautifully.

Collins: There’s a Barbara Kruger print that reminds me of the mood we were trying to capture: It reads: “You construct intricate rituals which allow you to touch the skin of other men.” That’s basically what Abercrombie & Fitch was. It was an intricate ritual that allowed sunkissed lacrosse players to metaphorically touch the skin of other men.

Carney: You know what’s funny, though? It was never the gay stuff people had a problem with. It was everything else.

LET THE CONTROVERSIES BEGIN

For almost every moment of its seven-year life, The Quarterly was a controversial publication. Parents, politicians and conservative-types didn’t appreciate its no-holds-barred approach to rampant fucking, and they could not, for the life of them, understand how such an adult magazine was making its way into the hands of their precious teens (who were probably jacking off to dad’s Playboys long before the Quarterly came along, but I digress). There was approximately one year — 1997 — where the amount of people it pissed off stayed below a critical mass, but after a certain somebody published a story that vaguely suggested underage kids drink, it was off to the races.

Abadsidis: We got in our fair share of trouble with Christian groups and concerned parents right off the bat. Let’s take one of the earlier issues — I believe it was Summer of 1998. It was my story. Basically, I suggested that people could do better than beer and that they should “indulge in some creative drinking.” There was one drink I made up called the “Brain Hemorrhage” and a few others you could play a drinking game with. We also included a spinner insert people could cut out.

None of it had anything to do with driving, of course, but the issue was called “On the Road.” It was a sort of beat-focused, Jack Kerouac thing, so some people interpreted that as us promoting drunk driving (though we did nothing of the sort). Also, the kid on the cover was underage. He was 16, if I remember correctly. Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) didn’t like that.

Karolyn Nunnallee, vice president of public policy for MADD: We had been really focused on underage drinking and had been instrumental in getting the country’s legal drinking age raised to 21. Then Abercrombie & Fitch comes out with this weird magazine that basically said, “Don’t go back to college drinking the usual beer. We’re going to show you a new way to drink.”

Not only did they have this drinking game, but they had recipes for these mixed drinks for young people to partake in. I was like, “Abercrombie & Fitch? Aren’t they in the clothing business?” What in the world were they doing? I mean, they were a high-end brand, not Walmart. Why would they take their focus off of clothing and put it toward alcohol? Were their clothes not good enough that year or something?

Needless to say, we weren’t happy with them. Curse words were handed out. We sent a letter to them and started a whole media campaign about it. We went on as many news media outlets as we possibly could with the story of how incensed we were.

Abadsidis: I was sure I was going to get fired over that. We had to remove the page with the spinner out of every single issue across the country. We apologized, of course, but it ended up backfiring against the protesters — that incident gave us so much publicity. It put us on the map. It also made us a target for conservative types. They hated us. After MADD, boycotts of Abercrombie started flaring up all over the place. That’s around the time we hired Hampton to do PR.

Carney: It was my job, at the time, to defend the brand. I’d go on talk shows like Entertainment Tonight or Today Show and explain away our latest controversy (there were a lot). It wasn’t hard, actually; each time, I’d give them what was more or less my go-to response: “It’s a beautiful publication intended for college-aged kids.” And that was the truth! It was way ahead of its time and was absolutely meant for people 18 and up.

Though not everyone saw it that way. The sex and nudity really got to people. A lot of them definitely thought we were making porn. That was the constant complaint: We were deliberately putting porn in the hands of young kids.

Lever: The Quarterly featured about the same level of nudity as a European yogurt commercial. Which is to say, a lot. It was a “clothing catalog” with almost no clothing. Of course [American] people thought it was pornographic!

Carney: Okay, sure — there were photos of like, six girls in bed with one guy and more than a few spreads that enthusiastically suggested naked non-monogamy — but it wasn’t porn. It was tasteful. And let me tell you — nothing we had in there was surprising to kids.

Abadsidis: The models ranged from 16 to 20. It was erotic. It was art. I don’t think there’s anything pornographic about the Quarterly unless you think that nudity, in and of itself, is pornographic.

Illinois Lieutenant Governor Corinne Wood did, apparently. In 1999, she called for a boycott of Abercrombie & Fitch because its “Naughty or Nice” holiday issue “contained nudity” and “even an interview with a porn star.” That porn star was none other than Jenna Jameson, who at the time was well on her way to becoming a household name. A so-called “child prodigy” occupied the neighboring page, sparking accusations that the Quarterly somehow intended to connect children to porn.

A cartoon of Mr. and Mrs. Claus experimenting with S&M across from the statement “Sometimes it’s good to be bad” didn’t help, nor did the “sexpert” who offered advice on “sex for three” and told readers that going down on each other in a movie theater was acceptable “just so long as you do not disturb those around you.”

The Illinois Coalition of Sexual Assault joined Wood’s boycott. Later that year, Michigan attorney general (and eventual governor) Jennifer Granholm sent a letter to Abercrombie complaining that the “Naughty or Nice” issue contained sexual material that couldn’t be distributed to minors under state law.

Carney: There were four states that tried to ban us after that. I remember Granholm. She was my arch-nemesis at the time — we really got into it. I respected where she was coming from, of course, but our whole thing was that we weren’t showing anything that wasn’t actually happening on college campuses. And I’d already made it pretty clear to the press that the magazine wasn’t for minors.

Also, it’s not like we were the only magazine talking about or showing sex. You could find all the exact same stuff in Cosmo or Playboy — it’s just that we were a clothing brand, and one whose major customer base just so happened to be teens and young adults. No one expected that from us. Brands weren’t “supposed” to be talking about sex period, let alone to teens and young adults. But we took it upon ourselves to pioneer a more open, honest view of it. That’s the wrinkle that made it so interesting.

We did come to an agreement with Granholm. We decided to wrap the magazine in plastic and make it available for purchase only to those over 18, that way, it’d be even more clear that we weren’t “selling porn to the underage.”

Kon: I believe it was one of the few times the company acquiesced.

Collins: Other than that, don’t remember getting any instruction from Savas, Mike or Sam to tone it down. It was kind of mutually assumed that we weren’t going to apologize for the sexual nature of our content. We knew we had to keep things sexy, as it were — that was our whole thing.

We weren’t deliberately trying to piss off people, but we were trying to push the envelope, and there was definitely an element of deliberate trolling of conservatives and Christian groups. It was a good thing if we pissed them off. It created the controversy that made the brand seem edgy and dangerous, which is what you want if you’re trying to appeal to young people.

Carney: We were also just showing real things that happened at college. And as anyone who’s been to college knows, it’s not just about reading and writing papers. It’s also about sex. Not only that, of course, but we’re sexual beings. We respond to images that are sexual. We were trying to take the stigma away from that and acknowledge that it’s not a bad thing to do.

But no matter how clear we made it, our stance on sex polarized people more and more. I could tell, because almost as soon as I started speaking on behalf of the magazine, strange things started to happen to me. I got stalkers. People left me messages saying I was going to hell and I’d have no afterlife. I got hate mail to my house. One person left a package containing their dirty, stained underwear at the front door of my apartment with a note saying they’d be “coming by later” to “talk to me about it.” I had to call the police on that one.

I was the face of the publication, so I got the vast majority of the harassment. But I didn’t mind. It was my job to take the fall, and I heard and respected every single person’s complaint and talked to them about it. Plus, for every message I got banishing me to hell, I got another from a journalist or a fan begging me to save a copy for them. People collected them. They really loved it, precisely because it was so sexual.

Abadsidis: Mike didn’t flinch about any of this stuff. He wanted to defend it because he could see it was working. We weren’t about to tone anything down (at the time).

Flash-forward to June 2001. The Twin Towers are still standing tall, tips are being frosted and Apple has just unleashed iTunes onto an unsuspecting populace. A&F Quarterly, now in its fourth year, is in hot water once again. Having survived a number of boycotts, lawsuits and controversies since its inception, it’s now in the midst of weathering another minor national conniption over its use of nudity.

Jeannine Stein, describing the Summer 2001 issue in an excerpt from a Los Angeles Times article called “Nudity? A&F Quarterly Has It Covered”: [It’s] explicit in ways that most catalogs and fashion magazines are not, and its use of male nudity is uncommon among general-interest publications. It features 280 pages of young, attractive men and women alone and together, in serious, romantic, sexual and party modes, wearing lots of A&F clothes, some A&F clothes and sometimes no clothes at all. Among the coffee-table book-ish photos by Bruce Weber is a man, covered only by a towel, surrounded by five women; a woman at the beach reclining body-to-body with three men; a back view of a naked man getting into a helicopter (we haven’t quite figured that one out yet); and a few topless females.

There are many naked butts and breasts.

Abadsidis: We also had photos of nude women in a fountain — which were inspired by Katharine Hepburn skinny-dipping at Bryn Mawr College — and a whole set dedicated to the Berkeley student that spent a day naked in class. It was par for the course for us, but even though we’d done the whole shrink-wrap and over-18 thing, people still felt it was too sexual for branded content.

In response, an unexpected alliance formed between cultural conservatives and anti-porn feminists to boycott Abercrombie & Fitch over the Summer 2001 issue of A&F Quarterly. According to Wikipedia, the offending issue included “photographs of naked or near-naked young people frolicking on the beach,” “top-naked young women and rear-naked young men on top of each other” and an “interview with porn star Ron Jeremy, who discussed performing oral sex on himself and using a dildo cast from his own penis.” Once again, Wood was at the helm.

David Crary, journalist, excerpt from a 2001 Associated Press article: Illinois Lt. Gov. Corinne Wood — a Republican who has been sparring with A&F since 1999 — announced the boycott campaign last week in Chicago. She has recruited a diverse mix of supporters more familiar with facing off against each other than with working together.

Wood, writing on her website in 2001: A&F is glamorizing indiscriminate sexual behavior that unsophisticated teenagers are not possibly equipped to weigh against the dangers of date rape, unplanned pregnancies and sexually transmitted disease.

Michelle Dewlen, president of the Chicago chapter of the National Organization for Women, speaking at one of Woods’ press conferences in 2001: It’s not a catalog. It’s a soft porn magazine.

Rev. Bob Vanden Bosch, head of Concerned Christian Americans, as quoted by the AP: It’s very important for people to get involved. The exploitation of sex and young people in A&F’s catalog isn’t only atrocious but also a psychological molestation of their teenage customers.

Quart: It was predatory in a few ways, really. One was that it confused the corporate identity of Abercrombie and the advertising with the editorial. It preyed on young consumers not understanding the difference between editorial content and sales content. Back then it led, I saw, to a way that girls were objectifying themselves and commodifying themselves. It ultimately led to boys also objectifying themselves and commodifying themselves — not to the same extent, but far more than they were when I started reporting Branded a little more than two decades ago.

I have the stats on the male body image dysmorphia at the time in Branded (which has only worsened). Then, male body shaming and “manorexia” was on the rise, for the first time on a mass scale. It couldn’t help for the most popular brand at the time to have a dedicated giant glossy magazine filled with pictures of male teenagers with zero body fat half undressed.

Abadsidis: I mean, sure, as much as any advertising does. It wasn’t like we were leading that charge. Any effect on self-image was certainly unintentional, but I do think it did make people want to be athletic. You definitely saw a lot of guys trying to look like that during that period, especially as time went on. If you look at the first few issues, the guys aren’t that built. Ashton Kutcher was actually in the second one — that was his first big break — and they get increasingly more cut from there. That whole era is when men’s body issues started to come out.

Lever: I’d also submit that all this was controversial because it was pre-internet. The internet mainstreamed sexual content in a way that makes A&F or other “scandalous” ad campaigns (like the 2003 Gucci ad with the model’s pubes shaved into the shape of a G) seem quaint, even obsolete. Like, do you remember that Eckhaus Latta ad a few years ago that scandalized people for five minutes because it showed people having real (albeit pixelated) sex? Neither does anyone else.

SLAVOJ ŽIŽEK TEACHES SEX ED

Always filled with philosophy, social theory and intellectually minded topics that likely soared over the heads of most Abercrombie consumers, the Quarterly outdid itself in the Fall of 2003 with its penultimate issue. A gorgeous romp of summer-spirited abandon accompanied by some delightfully incoherent, Dada-like musings from Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Žižek, it connected a “back-to-school” theme with a pretty clear directive to fuck. Yet, the information it presented was actually rather safe and tame, a reality which confused and irritated Quarterly staff. Their content was legit, so why was everyone up in arms?

Abadsidis: The “Sex Ed” issue was the second to last one that we did. It got some of the most criticism, and was supposedly the reason everything was finished. I literally had stuff in there cited straight from the University of Michigan’s freshman student handbook on sexual conduct, and it still pissed people off! Then, of course, there was Žižek.

Lever: Žižek identifies as a radical leftist. He’s very famous for his work on cultural theory and critical theory. He analyzes all kinds of topics in his signature, impenetrable — but also approachable — style. And when I think of him, I think of his very distinctive manner of speaking, that some people have described as being on cocaine constantly. But he’s definitely kind of a cult figure, a favorite of people who consider themselves highbrow, but also fun.

He’s really touted as the greatest anti-capitalist of our time, and yet, here he was, “sexually educating” the mean girls and boys of your high school, in a brand catalog whose entire goal was to ensnare young people for the purpose of selling them distressed jeans.

According to the magazine’s foreword, the editor wrote to Žižek and said this: “Dear Slavoj, enclosed please find the images for our back to school issue. We’ve never had a philosopher write the text for our images before, so write what you like. We’re looking for that Karl Marx meets Groucho Marx thing you do so well. Thanks, Savas.”

Abadsidis: I love Slavoj. He was friends with one of my professors from school. He only had 24 hours to write this, so we actually sent someone to London where he was to drop off the images we wanted him to write text for. They hung out for a day and then flew back with what he’d written.

Lever: It was basically a series of insane, absurdist ramblings pasted over really hot naked people.

Žižek, excerpt from A&F Quarterly’s 2003 Sex Ed issue: Back to school thus means forget the stupid spontaneous pleasures of summer sports, of reading books, watching movies and listening to music. Pull yourself together and learn sex.

Lever: I mean, that’s like the first episode of every teen TV show, where these three nerdy boys start high school and they’re like, “Okay, we’re going to be cool this year guys. We’re going to lose our virginities.” It’s very formulaic. But there’s more.

Žižek: The only successful sexual relationship occurs when the fantasies of the two partners overlap. If the man fantasizes that making love is like riding a bike and the woman wants to be penetrated by a stud, then what truly goes on while they make love is that a horse is riding a bike… with a fantasy like that, who needs a personality?

Lever: The “go learn sex at school” part really struck a nerve with conservatives. But I don’t think it was that transgressive. Fourteen-year-olds are receiving messages to have sex all the time — what did it matter if some Eastern European anti-capitalist was hitting them over the head with it through the pages of a polo shirt advert?

Abadsidis: Fox News got involved, if I remember correctly. That was one of the few times I actually got pissed off about how an issue was being covered. I mean, the information in there was handed out to students by an actual university. Half the issue was quotes from this really influential philosopher. But for some reason, people really took offense to the language of it. That whole year [2003] was just a bad one for us.

THE LAST HORNY CHRISTMAS

For its final trick, the Quarterly released a holiday issue featuring 280 pages of “moose, ice hockey, chivalry, group sex and more.” It had oral sex, group sex, sex in a river, Christmas sex and pretty much every other type of sex you could think of, all which followed an earnest letter from Abadsidis which read: “We don’t want much this year, but in keeping with the spirit, we’d like to ask forgiveness from some of the people we’ve offended over the years. If you’d be so kind, please offer our apologies to the following: the Catholic League, former Lt. Governor Corrine Wood of Illinois, the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, the Stanford University Asian American Association, N.O.W.”

But the issue didn’t really hit. By fall 2003, Abercrombie was involved in a number of lawsuits and protests related to exclusion and discrimination, which left people cold despite the inviting warmth of a crackling, fireside circle jerk (a Weber offering which, I’m told, can be found on page 88 of the final issue).

Cole Kazdin, journalist, writing in a 2003 Slate article called “Have Yourself a Horny Little Christmas”: The challenge for me, when masturbating with my friends to the nubile nudies in the Abercrombie & Fitch catalog, is trying not to think about serious things like racial diversity; it tends to kill the mood. But because most of the models in the catalog are white and because a lawsuit has been filed against the clothing retailer for allegedly discriminating against a Black woman who applied for a job at the store, it’s hard for the issue not to rear its nonsexy head. [In 2004, Abercrombie also agreed to pay $40 million to settle a lawsuit that accused the company of promoting whites over Latino, Black, Asian-American and female applicants.]

Collins: As a brand, Abercrombie did a lot of things that were quite gross. I’m sure you remember when they came out with these T-shirts with these racist stereotype characters on them. You would just see it in the catalog and just be like, “Jesus Christ.” It was awful and stupid and self-defeating, just tone deaf. And we just couldn’t figure out how no one at the company saw the problem with it.

Stagg, excerpt from Sleeveless: Kids in my high school wore shirts that read, “Wok-n-Bowl” and “Wong Brothers Laundry Service: Two Wongs Can Make It White,” accompanied by cross-eyed propaganda-style cartoons. If you weren’t part of the in-crowd (and white), A&F was oppressive. Non-jocks made their own anti-A&F T-shirts, using the brand as a catchall for exclusionary, competitive behavior and old-fashioned bullying.

Carney: That stuff was indefensible, really. Those were the darkest days of my job — listening to calls and reading letters about how offensive those shirts were. Even though the Quarterly was quite separate from the brand and we had no influence over what they did or what clothes they designed, we did still have to print their stuff at the back of the magazine. It was pretty uncomfortable.

Stagg: By 2006, Mike Jeffries’ most controversial public statement on sex appeal was really just saying what we were all thinking: “Are we exclusionary? Absolutely.” Those remarks were followed by lawsuit after lawsuit, mostly involving staffing discrimination. An announcement about the store refusing to carry anything over a size 10 reportedly marked a noticeable decrease in sales.

Abadsidis: There were a lot of underlying problems at the company. The amount of negative press Abercrombie was getting was getting silly. No matter what we did, we’d end up in the news, especially if it was related to the Quarterly. After so many bad news incidents, it just felt done, like its moment had passed. It was bound to crash at some point.

Gina Piccalo, excerpt from the Los Angeles Times: Clothing retailer Abercrombie & Fitch has pulled its controversial in-store catalogs after outraged parents, conservative Christian groups and child advocates threatened a boycott over material they said was pornographic. However, a company spokesman said the move had nothing to do with the public outcry. The catalogs were pulled to make room near cash registers for a new Abercrombie & Fitch fragrance.

Abadsidis: People like to think that the boycotts and Christian protests had something to do with it, but that wasn’t the case at all. By 2003, Abercrombie’s stock was low — something to do with ordering too much denim. The store was having negative sales for the first time. There was the line in the New York Times, who covered our demise, that Mike was “bored” with it.

Collins: We had no warning. We were all there one day, and the next, we were gone.

Lever: The Quarterly was a relic of a different time. I feel like it could never have been made after 2008 for so many reasons — economic, and cultural and political. It would just never fly. It was made before feminism pervaded everything, at a time where you could be completely flagrant about gross patriarchal shit and still get away with it.

It was kind of like this last gasp of a certain conception of what’s desirable — a very hegemonic coolness exemplified by white Ivy League frat kids who got fucked up the night before their philosophy class. That doesn’t have much currency anymore. Abercrombie kept that image on life support until its last gasp.

Now, 20 years later, what’s cool is not that. What’s cool is to have depression and ADD. The ideal is out. The real is in. And the Quarterly, having always existed in the liminal space between, is neither here nor there.

EPILOGUE

In 2008, Abercrombie resurrected the Quarterly in the U.K. for a limited-run special edition to celebrate the success of its European stores. The original team was reunited — Abadsidis, Shahid and Weber — with the hopes that Britain’s more “open-minded approach to culture and creativity” would provide a welcoming substrate on which to re-grow their original ideas of sexual liberation. The issue, “Return to Paradise,” was “more mature” than its American cousin. It was well-received — aside from the usual protests about sex and nudity — but it wasn’t continued.

Two years later, in 2010, the Quarterly was revived again, this time as a promotional element for Abercrombie’s Back-to-School 2010 marketing campaign, which bore the unfortunate title of “Screen Test.” The lead story Abercrombie put out on its website sounded like a cross between American Idol and a gay porn shot: “The staff of A&F Studios opens up to editorial to explain the steps the division takes to find new, young, hot boys. The cattle-call approach to herd young talent ends with the best of the beefcake earning a screen test that ‘could be the flint to spark the trip to the star.’”

Bruce Weber would be shooting, of course. This would become especially ominous after he was accused of a series of casting-couch style sexual assaults by 15 male models beginning in 2017. According to the accusations, he subjected them to sexually manipulative “breathing exercises” and inappropriate touching, insinuating that he could help their careers if they complied.

Arick Fudali, a lawyer at the Bloom Firm, which represents five of Weber’s alleged victims, declined to confirm or deny whether any of the alleged assaults happened on a Quarterly shoot. If they did, they’re not prosecutable as sexual assaults in New York. Because the states’s statute of limitations on reporting rape is only three years, anything that happened during the Quarterly’s run wouldn’t count toward a sexual assault charge (unless a minor was involved, which Fudali also declined to confirm).

No one I spoke with for this story remembers seeing, hearing or experiencing anything like what the allegations against Weber describe, but some expressed concern over how they might affect the legacy the Quarterly leaves behind. “The accusations are pretty grim,” Collins told me. “You feel for the people who are put in that position. People had power over them. It just makes you think, ‘Was any of this worth it?’ Not really, if people were getting hurt.”

As such, it’s difficult to conclude with definitive sign-off about the Quarterly’s legacy. Either it was a bastion of progressive and transversive sexuality that simultaneously trolled and nourished the very audience it sought to mine, or it was the product of darkness and pain. Either way, Sockel sums it up just right: “The Quarterly was discontinued in 2003, after the American Decency Association boycotted photos of doe-eyed bare-assed jocks in prairies and glens,” he wrote in his recollection. “It was nice while it lasted.”

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