#and the show sort of fucked this up
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problemswithbooks · 7 months ago
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Look, Alicent is one of my favorite characters and I'm generally more team Green then Black but some of the stuff you claim is just not correct. Mostly the stuff about Viserys.
His conscience pained him badly afterward, and he decided to name Rhaenyra his heir. Nevertheless, he wanted a young woman to sleep with; he didn’t want a wife, he didn’t want more kids, and he had already named his heir. But he married Alicent and had those kids anyway.
Where are you getting this from? Viserys, book or show is not portrayed as a sexual/horny character. He is not Daemon who is often shown with whores or flirting constantly with young Rhaenyra. If he just wanted a young woman to fuck he could have easily scores of them, just like Robert did on the OG series. He didn't marry Alicent because it was his only way to have sex with teenager.
No, he didn't necessarily want to re-marry. He tells Rhaenyra as much when she's mad at him. But that doesn't mean he only married Alicent because he wanted no-strings attached sex. He marries her because his council is pressuring him to do so, and he knows they're right.
She does the bare minimum whenever they are together: the bare minimum of eye contact and conversation. Viserys was SO PERVERSE that even with the minimum attention from a teenager he wanted to fuck her. Not even make her his wife because he didn’t want another wife.
Again, what are you talking about? He didn't pick Alicent because he just wanted an easy lay. We see that he genuinely seems to enjoy her company. That doesn't mean she's trying to seduce him or anything, but it also doesn't mean Viserys is a sex crazed perv. He doesn't flirt with her and the scenes are not shot in a way where they are implying he is driven by his lust for her. If you want scenes like that look at the ones between Daemon and young Rhaenyra.
No, Viserys instead is shown as having actually grown fond of her and appreciative of her kind words. No, he did not want a new wife, but if he needs to re-marry he seems to want to marry someone who he has a connection with. Is he reading to much into Alicent's kindness? Yes, but that doesn't mean he's some old man whose sole motivation is fucking a teenager.
And I’m saying that he didn’t want a wife because of what he’d done before to Aemma. He had already made up his mind that (to console his own conscience and to honor Aemma’s memory) he would make Rhaenyra his heir. SO HE DIDN'T NEED ANY MORE HEIRS. Then why does he get married and have some more?? BECAUSE HE IS AN IDIOT and because he just wanted a young bride.
Yes, he needed more heirs. It doesn't matter that he picked Rhaenyra as his heir. Daemon was the only spare he had if something happened to her, something his council would not be okay with. Heck, the only reason Viserys is King as it is, is because every heir Jaehaerys picked died. This happened even though he and his wife had thirteen children.
So to say that Viserys was and idiot who only took a second wife because he wanted to bang a teenager (despite being able to fuck however many teenage sex workers he wanted, like Daemon did) is ridiculous. He needed to have more kids just in case Rhaenyra did expectantly. I think this is even pretty easily backed up by the fact that he stopped having kids as soon as Rhaenyra had a child of her own despite the fact that Alicent was defiantly still able to have more at the time.
This isn't me saying Viserys didn't make mistakes or you can't hate him, but at least get the facts straight. He did ignore his kids with Alicent (at least in the show, in the book he at least seemed to spend a lot of time with Helaena). He didn't find them suitable positions that would better integrate them into Rhaenyra's court when he passed away. He wasn't a good husband to Alicent, especially later on in their marriage.
But to reduce his character down into lecherous, evil, old pedo man is just not correct. The anon was wrong to boil Alicent down into someone who should have just been a better friend or implying she had any ability to not marry Viserys. Yet, that doesn't mean Viserys is just a horny old man either. It's not supposed to be so black and white and even if the show favors the Blacks, everyone is supposed to be multifaceted characters. Portraying Viserys as just a horny old dude looking for a way to get some sex even if leads to unwanted kids is really shallow and just not what we see in either the book or show. That doesn't take away from Alicent--it was still awful for her. Viserys's intent doesn't change that she was miserable or that he made mistakes that doomed everyone. It just means he's not a cartoonishly one-dimensional character.
I know u won't get my point, but Alicent should have paid more attention to Rhaenyra and respected her and her father's wishes and not have installed her fucking son on the throne. Things started going south when she married Viserys and when she wanted to strip Rhaenyra off her birthright
How about, no?
*Long Rant Incoming:*
1) Viserys didn't talk about "birthright." In the eyes of the smallfolk, Aegon has the "birthright" to rule simply because he is a male Targaryen heir. Alicent's position was vulnerable because Viserys never actually promised Alicent that Aegon would be king but neither did he specify exactly what his role would be and that was the point… all his children wanted his attention and love, and a place to belong. Viserys didn’t know what he wanted. Before naming Rhaenyra his heir, he wanted a son so desperately that he killed his wife for it. His conscience pained him badly afterward, and he decided to name Rhaenyra his heir. Nevertheless, he wanted a young woman to sleep with; he didn’t want a wife, he didn’t want more kids, and he had already named his heir. But he married Alicent and had those kids anyway. He really was so irresponsible and on top of that, he tells Alicent in episode 3 that he thinks he probably was wrong in making Rhaenyra his heir because of his dream/prophecy, so ofc Alicent was worried. Honestly, he could have made his mind up about Rhaenyra and shut up about it. Or he could have actually thought of his other kids and given them some work to do and trained them for some position if he truly cared for them. From the moment they existed, they were his responsibility. And for sure it makes sense why his kids by Alicent, not having known any special love from their father, would want to finally claim a position for themselves.
So, Viserys set the Dance in motion by his choices. If he had supported his Targtower kids and ensured they wouldn’t be threatened by their mad uncle (Daemon; who hated them just because they were Otto's and Alicent's blood) in the succession, then Alicent would have fewer reasons to establish Aegon on the throne.
2) Alicent spent time with Viserys because she had always considered her own self in reference to the Targaryens. What was she if not Rhaenyra’s childhood companion? When Otto compels her to visit Viserys she doesn’t want to. She brings along the book of histories she used to read to Rhaenyra. What else can she offer to the Targaryens? This is what they like: to talk about their legacies and their histories. So she might as well read to him, right? There’s no harm done. And she went. She does the bare minimum whenever they are together: the bare minimum of eye contact and conversation. Viserys was SO PERVERSE that even with the minimum attention from a teenager he wanted to fuck her. Not even make her his wife because he didn’t want another wife. And you see how surprised Alicent is when he declares so matter-of-factly that he will wed Alicent, no questions asked. Because she was the easiest bride-but-no-wife choice of them all. She already had her father in court who was a megalomaniac, and Viserys thought that by marrying Alicent he was giving Otto what he always wanted: greater opportunities for social climbing. So he’d stay out of his way, right? That’s what he wanted all along, right? So I can have your daughter any way I like, right? (Because had he married Laena, can you imagine being so chill with Corlys as a father-in-law? Ofc he wouldn’t desire anything potentially restrictive for him.) And I’m saying that he didn’t want a wife because of what he’d done before to Aemma. He had already made up his mind that (to console his own conscience and to honor Aemma’s memory) he would make Rhaenyra his heir. SO HE DIDN'T NEED ANY MORE HEIRS. Then why does he get married and have some more?? BECAUSE HE IS AN IDIOT and because he just wanted a young bride. He is the reason the war began, and his reckless choices, not Alicent wanting some compensation for her years of mistreatment and suffering. Because even after he got married and had those kids he still had time to make things right but he didn’t.
So Alicent didn’t marry Viserys, it was the other way around. He lusted after her and wed and bed her. Teenage Alicent couldn’t and wouldn't go against the will of the King.
3) Regarding the friendship between Alicent and Rhaenyra it was actually the opposite: Alicent many times tried to defend her and had her back even when Viserys and Otto believed the rumors of her losing her maidenhood (which as an unmarried heir was an insult to the crown). Alicent didn’t want to believe it and she supported her! However, even earlier than that, Rhaenyra cast Alicent off without understanding or offering consolation for the predicament she found herself in. She never tried to understand Alicent and never really paid enough attention to what her friend was going through even before she married Viserys. Alicent was alone and without a friend and Rhaenyra should have paid more attention to her.
4) Things really started to go south when Rhaenyra betrayed Alicent's trust by lying to her and continuing to flout her freedom, special treatment, and life without consequences to Alicent's face. The reason Rhaenyra had bastards and married Laenor was her own fault in the first place. Alicent tried to encourage Viserys to look for any potential suitors for her, and Rhaenyra had every opportunity to make the right choice but no, she messed it up by seeking out Daemon and then sleeping with Criston, so she brought it to herself. After what she did, there was no suitor available apart from Laenor, and her father forced her to marry him because no one else would. And then she had three Strong kids, making every mistake after the other (although I understand her completely: she had to have those kids because she wanted heirs and because that’s her body her choice, you know? She can sleep with whomever she wants) but at the same time, the game they all play is political and during the time and age we’re discussing, it was a big deal if you had bastard kids, especially since there already were THREE legitimate male Targaryen heirs whose fate was unsure and further endangered by Rhaenyra's actions. But it wasn’t Alicent’s fault that Rhaenyra had those kids, it was her own choice and she had to live up to the consequences of her actions. (She did this once by taking her children away from KL because she, too, recognized that they were being pointed at too much and it was getting too obvious).
5) Alicent knew that Rhaenyra wasn’t going to hurt her kids but the system they were born in would. In case she became heir, for Rhaenyra to secure her succession and have no challengers, Alicent’s kids had to die. Those displeased by Rhaenyra could easily dethrone her if there was an active male heir free to roam around Westeros. Alicent's sons would always be a challenge to Rhaenyra. And maybe Rhaenyra hadn’t thought about it per se and I trust that she never had vile intentions towards the kids (despite the deleted scenes where she gives death stares to Aegon) and despite never calling them by their names or developing a relationship with her siblings. Her own council and her uncle-husband would advise her to kill them. Their position wasn’t safe. Viserys could have secured it by giving them land and titles instead of the throne and by having them bend the knee to Rhaenyra but he didn’t. So their position was very much vulnerable because again, he didn’t care at all what happened to them, but Alicent, claiming the throne for her son, and saving his life the only way she knew how, DID.
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puppppppppy · 1 year ago
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these two are so interesting to me
characters belong to @canisalbus
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shanastoryteller · 4 months ago
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The day his deal comes due, Sam goes missing.
Dean tells himself it’s nothing, that he’s gotten caught up in some research, some last ditch, hail mary nonsense and that he’s just turned his phone off and everything’s fine, that he wouldn’t do something stupid, that he wouldn’t break his promise.
He tells himself that for the first two minutes after he cracks his eyes open and sees the empty bed across from him, and the first time his call goes straight to voicemail, and not much after that. Sam’s broken his promises over things significantly less important to him than his brother’s life.
Dean is dressed and in the Impala five minutes later, heart thudding wildly in his chest. He calls Bobby, Ellen, everyone he can think of, but none of them have heard from Sam, none of them have eyes on him. Sam was with him last night, even if he boosted a car, there’s only so far he can get.
He keeps calling, keep searching, desperate to stop whatever he’s trying to do, to find him, to see his brother one last time before he’s dragged to hell. To make sure Sam is going to be okay after he’s dragged to hell. But the hours tick down, the sun sets, and he can’t find a trace of him. He’s so exhausted and heart sick that when he goes to call Sam again it takes him a long time to read the number on his phone, eyes swimming, the time not making any sense.
1:03
That’s not possible.
That’s not –
His phone rings, blocking out the time with Bobby’s name across the screen, and he answers it but his throat is too thick to say anything.
“Dean?” Bobby says tentatively. “Are you – I got an email from Sam. It just said, I mean, did–“
“What did it say, Bobby?” he asks, even though he’s sure he knows.
Bobby sucks in a breath at his voice, because he knows just as well as Dean that he should be screaming in hell right now, not answering his phone. “To take care of you.”
Dean drops the phone, hears Bobby still talking as he grips the wheel and presses his forehead against the back of his hands. This is what he’d been afraid of. This is why he hadn’t wanted to mess with the deal in first place. This is the one thing he’d begged Sam not to do.
It's easy to find a crossroad.
The demon is laughing at him when it shows up, wicked grin in a pretty face. “That didn’t take you long, boy.”
It’s a different demon than the one he delt with, obviously, but Dean figures they all know the same shit, since demons are a bunch of gossips. “This wasn’t the deal. My brother lives and I die.”
“You traded your soul for your brother’s life,” she corrects, so amused by all this that all he wants to do is kill her, to exorcise her, to make her scream. “Just like your father traded his for yours. There’s no reason Sammy can’t make his own trade. Man, but is your family fucked up. Maybe if you’d just settled down like little Sammy wanted, you wouldn’t all be bargaining for each other’s lives like haggling at a flea market.”
“Untrade it,” he snaps. “My soul for him alive, come on, no year, no waiting, you bring him back and take me to hell right now.”
She laughs in his face. “You don’t have anything to bargain with, boy.”
“My soul,” he repeats, “That’s what this is about, isn’t?”
“Oh, it’s what it’s all about,” she says. “But Sammy’s a clever boy. You know that, don’t you? He didn’t trade his soul for your life, he didn’t have to. You didn’t die. No, he traded it for your soul. Sorry, honey, but your credits been declined.”
At first he doesn’t understand. Sam traded his soul for Dean’s, exactly, so there’s no reason he can’t trade it right back. Then he gets it.
She sees the exact moment it clicks, the moment despair and horror sweep across his face too quickly for him to stop them. “That’s right. Little brother owns your soul now. For some reason he didn’t think you’d take proper care of it. You have it because that’s where he wants it, but no one will be making any deals with you, Dean Winchester. You can’t sell a soul you don’t own.”
“You can’t,” he has to clear his throat, “you can’t just come in and change things at the eleventh hour-”
“Eleventh hour?” she interrupts. “Sammy made his deal eleven months ago.”
His mouth is so dry he can’t speak.
“Isn’t it funny?” she asks, head cocked to the side. “All this time, the deal he’s been trying to get out of wasn’t yours, but his own. Maybe the two of you might have even managed it, except you just wouldn’t help, would you? Insisting that he not research, that he not look for a way out, and he spent so much time trying to convince you, coaxing you to talk about your feelings when he knew you were safe, all he because he thought it would make you feel better when he was gone, because he couldn’t tell you the truth and talk about how scared he was, so talking about your fear was as close as he could get.”
Dean’s going to be sick. “Don’t – please, please, I’ll give you anything-”
“You don’t have anything,” she says, gleeful. “You want to know why I agreed? The thing that made it just too delicious to refuse? Sammy’s down there, just starting in on an eternity of torture, and all he has to do get out of it is give up your soul. It’s his, after all, and he can put the original deal back in place any time he chooses. Just one moment of weakness on his end and his beloved big brother will be on the rack instead.” She sighs happily. “It’s almost as good as anything we’re doing to him down there, the knowledge that if he slips up for even a moment then it would all be for nothing. I couldn’t have found a way to twist the knife deeper if I tried.”
There’s vomit crawling its way up his throat and he has to swallow it down before he can speak. “I can’t – I’ll do whatever you want, please, there has to be something.”
She leans forward, cruelty and delight shining in her eyes. “The only thing you can do is what you’ve been telling your precious baby brother to do for the past year. Accept it. Move on. Live a good life so his sacrifice isn’t in vain.”
God. How can she – how can Sammy expect him to –
He’s doubling over, finally upchucking what little he’s ate today, and he’s dry heaving on the dirt when he hears the fading sound of her laughter.
This can’t be real. This has to be Hell, he has to be in it right now. He has to be.
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adoctornotatumbl-r · 4 months ago
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hmm i feel like shit …… computer !!!!! show me doctor mc oy !!
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chasedeys · 10 days ago
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Joe : I looked at Ja'Marr, he shrugged and said 'what are you gonna do?' and I just started hitting it.....We locked eyes and I just started doing it.
Ja'Marr : I looked at Joe and he looked at me, we caught eye contact and I was like 'what you about to do?'.....That's good to see him griddy.....He's happy, he don't show too much emotions so that was good for us.
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trixxedheart · 6 days ago
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It is amazing how the "people that love and uplift transwomen" website will instantly fucking maul a transwoman if she even remotely insinuate that using radfem rhetoric harms trans people
#this is about punkitt making a post literally just saying ''you shouldn't treat masculinity as a threat because it harms trans people''#and straight up getting death threats over it#how is it so hard for people to understand that treating masculinity as a threat directly harms transwomen#that it treats transwomen who show any sort of masculinity as a failure#it reminds me of trans people on 4chan because it enables so much self-loathing#you cannot argue ''men/masculinity are inherently evil'' and claim it's different from radfem/TERF rhetoric because you're trans#it just projects unrealistic body standards onto women#many women including cis women have masculine traits. I know women who have stubble and grow shittons of body hair#like—''biological sex'' is NOT a binary it is a social construct just like any other#and also only hyper focusing hate on masculinity because of patriarchy isn't an effective way of addressing patriarchy at all#hating a group of people based on their traits is not the same as being progressive. acknowledging—and more importantly. teaching people—#—and how it gives them certain privileges over others and to call it out and dismantle those systems is so fucking powerful you have no idea#also I'm going to be so for real with you. the vast majority of transmen do NOT have the privilege you think they do#it's the privilege of being able to pass more than anything. which any trans person would know thats really fucking hard!!!#I love rambling in the tags so much it's so great#sorry for this lol#queer discourse#also addendum: when I say 'women' it's all encompassing. if anyone gets pissy at me for saying 'women' and thinking I'm not including —#—transwomen in that then I'm killing you! you are the problem!
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dykedvonte · 3 months ago
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I just realized some people are confused about events in the alluded to past in Mouthwashing, particularly about how long the crew has been working together.
The only person who is truly new is Daisuke and it’s why his dynamic with the crew and role in the story is very unique and somewhat distant. Curly didn’t just get Jimmy this job on the Tulpar, he got him the job with the Pony Express. He’s been his copilot for probably a couple of years but still not as long as they’ve been friends. None of them are new with the freight industry, Anya and Swansea especially have been doing this for years, together.
Jimmy is the newest on the regular crew, maybe just a few assignments, but it’s not his first time working with them. I think it’s just something important because this isn’t just one bad mistake that snowballed with giving Jimmy the job. None of them thought Jimmy would do anything, no matter how off-put by him they could’ve been, since he hadn’t done a thing since being there. Generally unpleasantness isn’t a crime and he’d be aware of that.
It was a festering thing and a sort of forced trust they had to give him that he knowingly took advantage of. He was the black sheep and still a wolf under the wool. He expected when he lashed out, that he had been there long enough for it to be looked over completely. Got too comfortable in the space he inserted into and did a lot of damage with his claws when he felt he was going to get shaken out.
#I think acting like if Curly just didn’t give Jim the job this wouldn’t have happened is underplaying that they’ve all been working for PE#for a bit and that Jimmy got comfortable enough to do something horrible like#a lot of factors made the trip being out the worse parts of them but Jimmy was slowly letting his worse parts show and I think people assume#that this was one a few mission he went on with Curly and that he advocated for him completely when it was more likely#he pulled some strings so Jimmy could work right under him and stay out of trouble with a decent job and it back fired cause Jimmy is just#not a good person like I see people acting like his breakdown and choice to crash the ship was because this was probably one of the last#chances to fix his life and he couldn’t admit he fucked up soemthing literally handed to him so badly and cruelly#I think people forget that predators like Jimmy rarely do anything the first day. or week or month or year#they ingrain themselves into the schedule and dynamic and build a sort of stability that make it harder to knock them down or push back#he has Curly’s trust as the co pilot and as a friend#Swansea doesn’t like him but doesn’t trust him and Anya is just wary initially#he doesnt even attack her at the start of the trip it’s implied it happens after the psyche evals and when she confides in Curly how#patronizing he is to her and her position. he’s retaliating against a perceived slight to his stability to him it was pure act of power and#anger because he’s at his core an avoidant bully who can’t take responsibility#mouthwashing#mouthwashing game#jimmy mouthwashing#I didn’t want this to be a Jimmy post but it is#more so about how abusers like Jimmy work but I digress cause most of it’s in the comments
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astrobei · 1 year ago
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in my heart of hearts mike wheeler is absolutely an athena kid but i also have to offer up a concept that i think has extreme comedic and dramatic potential aka: repressed gay teenager mike showing up at camp half blood unsure of who his godly parent is and feeling insecure about not having powers and one day when he’s making not-so-secret heart eyes at his best friend and son of apollo will byers is when a bunch of glowing floating hearts show up above his head. and that’s how mike gets claimed by none other than aphrodite, the goddess of love and sexuality, and is in full denial about it for three days because he thinks it’s some kind of sick and twisted JOKE
(on aphrodite’s end, she’s upset mike is throwing away the gift of true love and keeps trying to trick him out of repression by making more and more improbable and hilarious gifts appear when he and will are hanging out. mike hands will a book and it turns into a box of chocolates and he has to fling it away like a frisbee before will sees it. they’re having lunch and romantic music starts playing. she gives mike the same blessing she used to claim piper and will can’t even look in his direction for a full day because he starts blushing so hard. fifty bouquets of flowers show up at the apollo cabin’s doorstep with a note that says love, mike and by the end of it, mike isn’t even repressed and unsure about his sexuality anymore — he’s just trying to not throw himself into the bonfire out of sheer embarrassment)
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charmac · 2 months ago
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I hate to defend Rob but seeing Sunny teens on Twitter try to speculate he isn't "speaking up" about voting because he's hiding being a secret Trump supporter is so insanely ridiculous when campaign contributions in the United States is public information:
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(Yeah. That's a $100,000.00 donation to a grassroots victory fund, on top of a ton of donations to swing states.)
It's almost like making public political statements on social media is heavily advised against when you're a showrunner/employer to hundreds of people.
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llitchilitchi · 9 months ago
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me and @oduvany binged Redwall together a little while ago so I decided to doodle a DSMP/Redwall crossover feat. mice c!DTeam, fieldmouse c!Tommy and dormouse C!Punz
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puppppppppy · 2 years ago
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personal character design headcanons + brainrot
Note: the re-bound!au does NOT belong to me, it belongs to @chipper-smol I’m just not normal about it lol
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#I SAY PERSONAL BC ITS MY OWN SPIN ON IT. NOT CHIPPERS CANON UNLESS THEY DECIDE TO OR NOT YOU HEAR ME /LH#I made a banner and everything this time. PLWEASE send them your questions not me JAJFHDSF#I thought it would be cool if macaque has two separate forms as a shadow and inside a mindscape. like I wanted his shadow form to reflect#him in his prime and then the mindscape form as what he looked like when he died. or a more vulnerable state at least#based on LBD appearing to MK as the ivory lady when she died in the S3 special. I don’t know exactly what it was but my first thought seein#the white void was she was appearing to MK in his mindscape to talk to him. so I built on that#I wanted to give him a more ‘Smokey’ look as a shadow just based on how he manipulates them in the show like in shadow play. I hope this#makes it look cool and immaterial. and then his mindscape form would be more battered up and tangible#the last couple images are chippers ideas though since they said the monkeys are drawn to MK when macaque is possessing him lol#and the fact that macaque doesn’t have any senses unless he’s possessing someone + literally sniffing out wukong in the scroll 🤨📸#I also have a vivid image of macaque moving from the mindscape to physical form like umm. kind of like when he passes the boundary between#physical and spirit/mind(?) it’s like the shadow covers him like ink. or pulling Saran Wrap over your face and it clings to your skin#so it kind of makes the shadow seem like a sort of shell or covering.. and I love the idea of MK meeting macaque in the mindscape for the#first time too. like the moment mac rescues him from LBD and MK sees him all battered and tired looking brooooooo#I’m not even sure if that would count as a mindscape but it rattles around in my brain like loose marbles#god I fucking love this au. gives me imagination fuel swear to god#my art#doodles#lmk#Lego Monkie kid#Monkie kid#lmk au#re-bound!au#rebound au#lmk sun wukong#lmk swk#lmk macaque#lmk six eared macaque#lmk mk#lmk xiaotian
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problemswithbooks · 1 month ago
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On Stella (Helluva Boss)
The fandom fights a lot over Stella and how she's written. Fans who like the way she is presented say it's fine that she's a one-dimensional 'evil queen' trope. It's not bad writing that she's so shallow and one note--some villains are better that way.
That isn't an inherently wrong statement. Some of the most fun villains are shallow, evil, for evil's sake types. Unfortunately, I don't think Stella works as this type of villain for a multitude of reasons.
Reason 1: Stella's 'evil' trait is at odds with the themes of the show.
Stella's primary evil trait is that she's cruel to Stolas simply because she likes being cruel to him. She's abusive and hates him. That, by itself isn't the problem. The problem is that the story isn't about Stolas being in an abusive relationship--it's primarily about two people from two different classes, and how they have to become better people and change in order to have the loving relationship they both want.
Yes, Stolas being in a past abusive relationship could be a hurtle to his growth as a character and him being in a relationship with Blitz, but the show never goes there even when it could. Stolas is not shown as being triggered by Blitz's yelling at him. In Apology Tour he has no issues fighting back and telling Blitz off, ordering him to leave. Blitz's yelling and more aggressive attitude isn't what leads to their misunderstandings, where Blitz accidentally hurts Stolas by reminding him of Stella's abuse.
Instead, Stella's abuse isn't even touched on in any major way, and does nothing to move the plot forward or cause connected drama between the two leads. Yes, she hires Striker to kill Stolas and that does at times cause problems, but she didn't need to be abusive inorder to explain why she'd want Stolas dead. In a world where assassins and murder is around every corner, it'd make just as much sense for Stella to hire Striker because Stolas cheated, and it made her a laughingstock among her high class friends.
I'd even argue her abuse makes the story make less sense. We know, from Stolas's own admission, that once his daughter was born, their marriage wasn't necessary. He claims he stayed to give Octavia a normal life, but if Stella is as volatile as she's shown, why would he think Via being around her was a good idea? If Stella had been less outwardly antagonistic and instead more cold and standoffish, with the both of them having mostly separate lives, intersected by polite, if strained family interactions when around Via, then him staying would make sense.
One of the reasons I think more people wanted Stella to be a caring mother to Octavia was because it explains why her and Stolas were still married despite her constant abuse towards him. If Stella cared about Via, and they were close, Stolas would be not only reluctant to leave but to let their false pretense of 'happy couple' slip in front of Via, since both would hurt her. It also would make Octavia's choice to stay with Stella and her anger at Stolas hold more weight, and give Via more complicated emotions. She'd really love her mom, but be confronted with the fact she hurt her father, who she also loves. As it is, it's pretty clear to see that as soon as Octavia finds out Stella is pure evil, she'll easily go back to Stolas with very little if any internal conflict.
Reason 2: Vivziepop claims she's not a one-dimensional character.
A really huge issue with Stella being presented as a one note bitch, is because the creator herself claims she's not. In an interview, Vivzie says Stella is like Beatrice Horseman from BoJack Horseman, saying that at some point we will see things from her perspective.
The problem with this is that Stella has already been portrayed too negatively and flat for this to work. Beatrice worked because, while yes she was awful to Bojkack, she also had Alzheimer's which gained her some sympathy points, as did the way Hollyhock cared for her. She also wasn't always over the top horrible to Bojack, being more passive-aggressive and neglectful.
On top of that, despite her abuse toward BoJack, particularly when he was growing up, she wasn't framed as the reason for all of BoJack's issues. He was still responsible for his own shitty actions as an adult, and when he retaliated toward her, like tossing the baby doll off the balcony, it was framed as shitty behavior. More than anything, their interactions said more about BoJack than Beatrice. Him trying to hurt her, by throwing away her baby doll or putting her in the shittiest nursing home he could find was to show how BoJack wishes he could retaliate against his mother for all the things she did to him, but it leaves him feeling hollow because he knows that due to her disease she's not aware of who he is. It's meaningless, doesn't help him get any closure.
Stella is not presented as anything other than over the top abusive in every scene she's in. Nothing in the show suggests she's anything besides violent, even going so far as having her choking dogs in a childhood picture. Nor is Stolas's treatment of her supposed to reflect on him or characterize him. The only time it might is when he ignores Via because he's too caught up fighting with on the phone, but again, it's not given much focus and he doesn't reflect on it. The same goes for the cheating--yes, Stella was abusive and he doesn't necessarily owe her anything, but Stolas refuses to acknowledge that what he did clearly upset Stella, both times he talks about it asserting that he knows he didn't hurt her. No, they weren't in love, but cheating is still degrading, and Stella is obviously upset. Frankly, I think it would have made more sense for Stolas to rub that fact in her face--he has no issue insulting her, as we see later in that conversation. Instead, his continued assurance that he didn't hurt her or do anything wrong feels like the writers talking through the character, afraid watchers will judge Stolas to harshly otherwise.
Stella getting the Beatrice treatment will likely fail because there is nothing to soften the audience toward her even a little. She has been presented as Stolas's tormentor and nothing else. There are flashes of possible sympathy for her when she interacts with her brother, but for the most part they're framed as Andre being right and Stella being stupid, rather than Stella possibly being manipulated and used by her brother.
It also will fall flat because unless her background is another showcase of how even the upper class are hurt by the system, and this leads to something either story or character wise for the main cast, then there is no point to bring it up. The point of Beatrice's story was to show how generational trauma seeps down into the next generation. BoJack doesn't even have to know about it for it to reflect on his character and explain why he is the way he is. He and his mother parallel each other, where they start out as innocent children but through their parents mistakes, they grow up into cynical, bitter adults who both feel as if they've wasted their lives.
Reason 3: To many villains.
Stella has taken a backseat in her own villain story to her brother, who, just like Stella, is simply evil (he's even characterized as a catty bitch, just like she is, except less of a yeller). It's true Andre wants power, whereas Stella wants...well nothing really, just Stolas dead I guess, but for the most part they are nearly the same. Andre is just a better written version of Stella since he actually gets to make plans and have an end goal.
Once Andre gets introduced, Stella is redundant because she offers nothing different and in fact offers less to the story overall. If Stella was going to be a flat, evil for evil’s sake villain, she and Andre should have been combined. It would have made far more sense to have Stella be a bit smarter and be the one plotting to get Stolas's power. It also would have made the court scenes more impactful because Stella would be a character that was established far earlier, and who we know is a major threat to Stolas, since she's the one that hired Striker to torture and kill him.
If Andre was going to be the main big bad for Stolas, then Stella needed to offer something different. Generally the underling under the main villain is more sympathetic, and less evil, as a way to showcase how much worse the main bad guy is. Or they're more charismatic and show up far more than the main bad guy, like Azula and Ozai. As it is, Stella is neither. She shows up just as little as her brother, and does far less.
And, while Vivzie is a woman herself, I do find the handling of Stella to have mysoginistic undertones, mainly that since her brother has shown up, she is constantly shown as stupid, and that her only good quality is her looks--things her brother constantly brings up, but are not framed as shitty on his part. Them being essentually the same charater make this look all the worse, since Andre, as I've said, didn't need to be a charater at all, and Stella could have been the main villain instead. To pretty much sideline a female charater in order to introduce a male charater that fills the same roll is not the best. Just like racisuim, sexisuim doesn't have to be done purposfly, and I don't blame anyone who finds this choice to be sexist.
Then there's Striker.
Another reason I think Stella and Andre should have been combined. Striker worked really well as the side antagonist under the main villain. He's the one we see more of, he's more charismatic and has hints of a generally interesting backstory, one that we know would fit into the theme the show has of class issues. He's a mirror of what Blitz could have turned into, while Stella could be presented as Stolas's opposite. Even their work relationship could be a dark mirror of Blitz and Stolas's real love for one another.
As it is, Striker is under two other villains, one of which has become essentially unless to the story (Stella can't do anything Andre can't at this point, especially since her and Via aren't shown to have a close relationship). This reduces his threat level and reduced his screen time since he now has to share it with another character. We can see this in the newest episode, where we get a scene where Andre is talking to Stella and then Striker appears later at the trial with no explanation. If Andre and Stella were combined, that scene could have been Stella going over the plan with Striker instead. This would have helped Striker's character, since as it is, his appearance at the trial is confusing. Maybe he's just out for himself and his selfishness won out over his hate of Royals, maybe he was blackmailed, maybe he was so furious and his pride wounded so much by Blitz he'd do anything to bring him down, maybe it's a combination of all three. We don't know because we aren't given the set up. Is it cool that Striker was a suprise? Sure, but in this case it wasn't worth not showing the charater's reason for doing something that seems to go agasint his own charaterization.
Reson 4: Threat.
One of the main reasons to have a simply evil villain is so the can be incredibly menicing. The Aundence doesn't have to feel anything but fear for the protagonists and hate for the villain. They pose no deep moral question, and it feels great when they're beaten.
Despite being a major villain we never see her threat felt by the protagonists. Take her abuse of Stolas. We see her go to hit him and he catches her hand easily and tells her off without issue. Stolas has no problem standing up to Stella ever. In The entire show Stolas is never portayed as afraid of Stella.
Contrast this with how Moxxie and Crimson interact. Yes, sometimes Moxxie does stand up to his father, but we are shown how terrified he is of Crimson multiple times during the one episonde they interact. In comparison Stella's actions never make Stolas even worried. The most we see is him doging things when she throws things at him, but he doesn't seem genuinly afraid, and it's forgoten as soon as she leaves.
He insults her over the phine, insults her to her face. When he learns she hired Striker we arent shown him suddenly relize he underestimated her and become afraid. He instead he's more conserned with his reletionship with Blitz and getting him a crystal. Stolas never tells Blitz about Stella, so we don't even know how Blitz feels about how she treated him.
It's hard for a pure eveil villain to work when only one charater even seems to know they exist and they aren't even worried about offending them. The only way this could work is if Stella pretended to be nice most of the time, but was secretly ploting, like Scar in the Lion King. Instead she's framed as this force of nature, pure bitch, who torments Stolas, yet Stolas doesn't even show anxiaty when having to meet with her, something we know he's prone too because he shuts himself in the refrigerator when contemplating his confession to Blitz ending badly.
If the writers want Stella to be evil--make her evil. Let her be powerful and scary. Have Stolas fintch at her voice, show flashbacks of her hitting him, let her win arguments and verbally tear Stolas down. Make her smart enough to plan things on her own.
I think when alot of people say Stella is a badly written charater it's not nessesarily because they wanted her to be good, or complex. I don't see alot of people angry at how Mother Gothel was written (besides her deisgn being anti-semetic) or Maleficent. It's possible to write evil, one-dimensional female villains. The issue is that even as an evil bitch, Stella falls short in a mutitupe of ways. Her charater is a complete waste, even more so now that her brother has been introduced. She has no reason to exist and serves no narritive purpose. Even as a raod block to the Stolas/Blitz ship she isn't nessesaey because their main issue is the class systum. Stella could have been dead before the show started, leaving Stolas with Via for drama, and Andre could be the evil uncle trying to get Stolas's power.
Stella is pretty much a sexy lamp, execpt the sexy lamp is also a bitch. She's less affective then the random bitch charaters introduced in romatic webtoon comics that are only there to be mean to the main charater and try to steal her man. Stella's not badly written because she's pure evil and simple, she's badly written because she doesn't serve a purpose in the story and could be replaced with a sexy, evil lamp.
#helluva boss#Stella Goetia#helluva boss stella#helluva boss critical#helluva boss striker#idk#Stella is an interesting character because she really feels like a remnate of a first draft#like i feel like her and her bro would be combined asap if helluva was made a live action show or something#and if she had to stay change her from simply wanting to be mean because lolz#and more because she loathes stolas for cheating with an imp#i mean fans say thats one of her reasons#but it's not actually touched on past a few insults#like playing up her classism would really help make her fit with themes of the show more#i also think her being abusive sort of makes Stolas's half of the show a bit lopsided#like i wish she was more like Verosika because then Stolas could learn something from his past relationship like Blitz did#as it is all of Stella's critisizuims of Stolas are presented as her being a petty abusive bitch#which makes it harder for Stolas to get good advice on how to be a better partner#because none of the toxic stuff from his only relationship was his fault#even when I think there are some things that could have been used#like his habit of just not listening to other people#he does this with Via#and he does it to Stella#aka he doesn't even notice shes ordering a hit on him at the table#its played for laughs but Stolas's lack of paying attention to people#is shown alot#even with Blitz#like when he doesn't notice how much Blitz hates his nicknames#even though he's really vocal about it#idk i think it would have been nice if Stella could have told him that#in the same way Verosika was able to tell Blitz how he fucked up during their relationship
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beatcroc · 1 year ago
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homest[ar/uck] posting. this was meant to be supplementary to the gerome comic as him 'explaining the joke' but i uhhhhhh forgot.
i'm not much for crossovers in the the traditional sense, but it IS one of my favorite character exploration exercises to just go like 'if x media existed in this universe, who would and would not be a fan of it?'. and these ones are pretty notorious and always very fun to mess with for that and so here we are
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moonshynecybin · 1 month ago
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obsessed with how marc's performance of celebrity has this kind of forced im normal im regular sheen to it sometimes that comes off as deeply vulnerable and trying too hard at the same time. his documentary where he tells everybody hes normal no really (conditions of normal: having family members and emotions) and then every other person interviewed is like hes an asshole hes insane hes the next virgin mary hes maybe icarus hes a wizard hes a workaholic and i dont know he does x y and z because it should be IMPOSSIBLE. like hes often balancing some degree of a lie AND often some of the most intensely intimate images ive ever seen come from a celebrity. literally inviting a camera crew to film him waking up from anesthesia. balancing "normalcy" with clear alien status as recognized by his peers. AND he'll drop ass to britney if given half a chance
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beneathsilverstars · 5 months ago
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been working on a lot of text post edits and i think this is my new favorite odile portrait. she's so... dubious. dismayed. perturbed. etc. something along those lines... hm 1 indeed
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eyeballsoup7310 · 15 days ago
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As far as I can tell James is the only one who actually brought transportation in and out of silent hill so you bet your ass I’m gonna put the characters on a road trip
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