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forestbathing-studies-blog · 7 years ago

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Shinrin-Yoku: —The Art of Forest Bathing

I remember turning on the television. The camera moved down the normally sand-coloured dirt road, now churned into a red sticky mess by the latest rains, with oil puddles of ominous grey and brown refusing to melt into the earth. They glimmered with a splattering of rainbow colours, but the oil was still and stagnant.

The sky was grey, no clouds or anything. The camera crew had walked up to a little coffee-skinned boy who stood in the lane smiling, periodically pressing his palms together, fingers outstretched. He looked at the reporters, eager to please.

“And have you ever seen a flower?” One of them asked.

“No.”

“Not at all?”

“No,” said the little boy, shaking his head and smiling.

I finished packing my bags and scribbled a haiku to pin on my front door as my traveller's message.

what if you are fooled- that rainbows are scars in the sky you applaud and let bleed?

As I walked to the edge of my forest the boy's answer came to me again who had never seen a flower in the mud of his shanty town, who trusted those that sent the bombs tt would set him free, free of a family to love him, free of the need to go to school any more, and free to choose which crater to sleep in, now that his house stood no more. I was leaving in my pursuit of forest study and specifically to further research forest bathing, a science started in Japan that I saw also as an art, and I knew that ultimately this study would benefit in those who had been robbed of the nature to nurture them. With this in mind I set off on my journey.

It is true that my own log cabin in the wilderness has no lock. No lock means a certain feeling of freedom. But freedom must be fed to flourish. It is not something you can give up, when your health suffers, or finances run low. You must build up your beliefs and values and experience them, and learn to learn them from others. That is the real reason to get in touch with nature, for walking in a forest also means stepping away from civilisation.

With my bag over my shoulder, I paused at the last tree before walking out into the meadow to pin my goodbye haiku to a tree trunk.

the aroma of pine

and the young morning’s fresh rain

reach my words

An early morning mist lay streaked with sunrise over the grass on meadows. A few rowers were already gliding down the river that bordered the large expanse, dipping their oars in and skimming along the calm surface, tiny whirpools in their wake. There was an elegant, timeless quality to the scene before me. Standing under an old oak trees, I thought if I was writing a novel, this is where I would start it, just as the hardy young rowers swept by, seamlessly almost, in the mirrored river.

the sturdy oak tree

gives some ancient shade

to my thoughts

In truth my journey started in-between Panama and Colombia, in a village called Paya. I wore a red loincloth in the jungle of the Darien Gap, between Panama and Colombia. I stayed with the Kuna Indians almost exactly on the border, deep in the rainforest.There have been many efforts from colonial missionaries and sects to prise the Kunas of the Darien Gap away from their belief in the Nana Dummad, Mother Hearth, a belief closely associated with respect to the nature around them. All failed. These people, who live in the jungle remain closely at one with their environment. This seems to have a real benefit: Kuna people have a low average blood pressure (BP, 110/70mm Hg), and, do not experience the age-related increase in blood pressure that is common in Western society. Death rates from cardiovascular disease and cancer, the first and second causes of death in the western world, are so rare in the Kuna that they are almost non-existant.It is impossible to say there is no connection between living in the equatorial forest and these figures. A parallel can be drawn to the jungles of Kerala, in southern India,where the local people enjoy a remarkably healthy existences among forests, where fresh food is available almost freely throughout their environment. If there ever was a model for sustainable development, it is the State of Kerala in India, and its jungle patterned by waterways, in hich reed and wooden boats float past idyllic villages set among the trees. No slash and burn here.In both the Darien Gap and Kerala, inhabitants are literally able to pluck food from branches. Freshness is always an important issue, and their food from their respective forests is high in vital flavonoid content. Flavanoids existabundantly and naturally in cocoa trees, but are often removed from chocolate, even dark chocolate because they can be bitter, and milk interferes with their consumption.Among the Kuna, I witnessed forest life first hand. Contrary to what one sees in news reports about people who live in these environments, everyone was healthy, and fit. It was only when leaving the settlement of Paya in the jungle, and heading towards the town of Turbo across the huge bay, that settlements began to look ragged, and disorganised, and people listless, with ill-fitting, ripped clothes, and vacant expression.In the green jungle there was always work to do, though more leisure time too, after the work had been done. Pollution was basically a foreign affair, and the Kuna carried much knowledge about the nutrients, health aids and poisons in their environment, as well as which areas were mosquito-ridden, and therefore likely to have the malaria parasite, and which areas of the rainforest were free of mosquitos.Living in the jungle, or even travelling through a jungle, is an enthralling experience. In sweltering heat as healthy as a sauna, and better than any exfoliant or moisteriser, every day is an adventure, and a detoxication for the mind.almost But problems occur when our world reaches into the areas of wilderness. I discover sad news after I leave the Darien Gap that , Víctor Alcázar, my guide and good friend was caught in an attack by a Colombian right wing squad, an attack that killed four Kuna Indian spiritual forest leaders and terrorised the harmonious settlement I had stayed in. Victor, who escaped suffering from bayonet wounds, was accused by police and prosecutors of being an accomplice of the invaders. It is inconceivable that such a kind, gentle person, who lost previously lost his front teeth demonstrating against Noriega, the Panamanian dictator, and a much-experienced guide in the jungle, could have done anything like that to destroy his own business. The veteran jungle guide, who had complained frequently about how the lack of police presence in eastern Darien hurt his business, told reporters he was a scapegoat for the police failure. I have never been able to get further information about what happened to him, this wonderful Carib of the Darien jungle, who had found himself under great stress and pressure, a man of great happiness and humour who harmed no-one, who I had corresponded with for a few years, with an unbelievably simple address of Víctor Alcázar, El Real, Darién jungle, Panama. among the treesshadows and thoughtstravel for miles 木木木

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Siberia: it is no wonder this great expanse spawned such unparalleled works of literature. Every person one meets is a perfectly described character, a walking story, ready for a novel to step into. As for the land mass itself, there is simply too much of it to describe. Many don’t even try, and rarely even glance out of a window from their train invariably traversing through the immense taiga, but none will admit to any monotony of the journey. Most travellers on trains here are not romantics. Siberia pulls on more than the mere sentimental. The concept of time and space take on a new condominium for those who do stand or sit looking out of the train windows. The trees are lyrical, and give rise to great orchestral symphonies of the mind. These pines, birch, spruce and larches may not have been the forests that padogas and fancy pavilions were built from, nor the dark, luxuriouds wood of Balinese carvings, but on these tree trunks and logs whole cities had been erected over permafrost, the wooden stilts serving better for the purpose than concrete, which starts to crumble in the plunging cold. At these times temperatures slide to such nonsensical figures that bananas become hammers and even vodka freezes. But vodka is an imported drink here, from wheatfields and grasslands, and made for drinking around kitchen tables up in high-rise flats that circle cities. From these tables and bottles trains are watched below as they made their way through the taiga. Those who take those trains across Siberia are not people who succumb to the self-indulgent charms of wanderlust. True travellers, they are mostly teatotal. The true Siberian traversing his or her native land cures and heals not with vodka but with pine oil, which he or she imbibes, or rubs on ailments and heats as a natural aroma.

Chita (Чита) is situated right where two rivers meet, the Inogoda and river Chita, from which the town is named. The two rivers come together a couple of hundred kilometres north of Mongolia, in Eastern Siberia. Chita is distinct. There are only two cities in the world where on the same hill at the same time are three temples of three different religions: Judaism, Islam and Christianity, and Chita is one of them. In the ancient part of the city on the top of the hill (the old prison used to be there, too) there is a synagogue, a mosque and an orthodox church. This is why Chita is called the second Jerusalem. Even the flag looks Palestinian, with a yellow triangle replacing the Palestinian red one, and three stripes of red, white and green.

“I understand there is no key to your log cabin, where you said you live, so if you don’t need a key, what are you searching for?” said the wizened old man, sitting on a wooden ledge lining a thin bed of small growing roots. With his thin white beard and green shawl he looked like a curator of bonsai trees.

“You mean why have I travelled so far?” I asked, the traveller in me long adept at turning philosophy around like the spinning of a coin, but only to help the conversation grow, to water it, give it life.

“In miles or in ideas?” the man replied, hand on his beard, a little tug, “or perhaps the key is only in the questions.”

I looked at the little man, at his amused eyes. He could have been from Tibet, or Kalmikiya, or of Hazara descent, living in the middle of Afghanistan. Chita was not part of the Siberia of pine, spruce or birch tree anymore. Here one felt the bleakness of the Central Asian grasslands, the steppes. The old man was a Buriat, of Turkic, Mongolian origins; a Buddhist.

“I’m just looking for my way forward,” I said.

“Ah,” he said, “then in miles!”

He tugged his silky white beard again, once, twice, a third time. “A pity,” he said, “in ideas is more fruitful.”

“If I hadn’t come all the miles across Siberia we would not be chatting about this,” I said.

“And nor would we if I had crossed over Siberia the other way” he replied. “It is a good thing all I did was sit here, otherwise I would not have had such a delightful, perhaps only an inconsequential moment, but I am rather sure that from here, near the end of your journey, it is your ideas that will now travel.”

“The importance of my journey then is not what I feel about it, but in what others find in it,” I said.

“That is the real journey,” replied the man. He lifted his hand up flat, horizontal, so that it cast a shade over the small plants growing in the fresh spring soil. “It is not my ability to lift my hand that is important,” he said, “but the shade it provides so the flowers can grow and bloom without over-exposure to the direct light.”

He stood up. “Ah, see, you are taller than me. You are offering me shade,” he said, giving a chuckle, “but others kilometres away will only receive shade from the ideas you have.”

He offered his hand and I shook it.

“If you must travel far to find the right way to provide shade of ideas for others, so be it,” he said, “but remember one must travel for that reason, not to count the distance.”

From within a slip of a pocket at his chest he pulled out a small booklet, with grey cardboard cover. “When you think about our meeting, and exchange ideas about the trees, then please make one of these haiku in here part of that exchange. Only open and look when you have collected your ideas and tell others.”

I took the booklet, and slipped it into my chest pocket. I wanted to tell him that everyone needs space, and some need movement, too, the creaking of a rolling wagon wheel, ruffled flapping of a sail or click of train wheels.

Then this small, alert man on the edge of the large flower bed surprises me, placing his hand on my arm. “my niece will accompany you, the taiga is her home and she is returning there after visiting me,” he says, “her name is Yenisei. Tell me what you learn from the trees, if we meet again. If not, tell another.” BELOW SYRAIGHT AFTER leaving forest part: 木木木

It took a childhood of intermittent tramping through pine forests in the Alps, where I grew up and a decade of living in the empty deserts of the Middle East to understand forests. That and spending an afternoon in the ethereal Redwood forest, in California. I thought I’d never seen anything more exquisite and majestic. Exploring the taiga of Siberia is awe-inspiring. There is also something else, that the more time I spend in forest areas, the better my chronic and inexplicable breathing difficulties I have improve.

the pine cone that feeds all the forest is the forest

l long for nature’s products when I walk among the bushes, shrubs and trees. Not the creams from companies with names like Natura, or Flower, Plantigen, with pictures of flowers or berries on the front, and packed with goodness knows what chemicals in a plastic container. TO REMOVE

sunlit waterfall in my wooden cup the taste of a rainbow

misty morning droplets of forest poetry I touch the sky

木木木 By name alone, Yenisei sounds beautiful. Yenisei. Names become more exotic the deeper one ventures into the forests of Siberia, in the endless boreal forest, or snow forest, of coniferous trees, pines, spruces and larches, and the white trunks of the birch trees. Yenisei is my guide, and is named after the River Yenisei itself, one of the three great rivers of Siberia. She is sleeping under the boughs of another pine tree, under great branches that trap the warmth. My guide is the niece of the man I met in Chita, and related by DNA and language to many of the tribes of Northwest America.

The forests ripple over the horizon. I am under the impression I will take this mysterious, beautiful forested land with me wherever I go, spiritually, in my heart, and soul. Already mentally, and physically, it has had a positive effect after only a couple of days. There is no other forest like the pine forest. I try to write a haiku about falling asleep under a pine tree, where heavy snow does not make it under the thick boughs that trap the warmth, but just can’t get it right. No matter, I am content merely to be, among the trees. Perhaps it is the scent I like most, as well as the gentle grandeur.

pine tea for the soul starts with a harvest of needles and forest air

Yenisei is not necessarily my guide for distances we will cover in the vast interior of Russia, but also my guide for my own interior. For that purpose, I will accordingly learn all I can about the forests of Siberia. Yenisei lives in the taiga, in the forest, usually in a small community, with other ethnic Evenks, who live a nomadic life among the trees, setting up camp a while then moving on, for the pleasure of moving as well as living. On a mat of pine needles am rejuvenated

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Here, at the other end of the thermometer from many, in Siberia, it is cold. My hands are already numb as I light the third match. The dried grass and hay, though, is still unfrozen. This time, with cupped hands not feeling the naked flame, it catches alight, a whisper of smoke then glowing tips. The herbs start to smoulder and flare, minute pinpricks of light, and soon I sip pine nut tea and offer some to my guide, through the large snow-covered branches. She smiles, and has her own forest herb brew to boil up. She hands me some dried Valerian flower roots. “Chew them,’’ she says, ‛’the flower grows here. It will help you sleep well, with nice dreams.’’ “I’m having wonderful dreams already!’’ I answer. It is only now I understand how much I appreciate the company of fir trees, and only now that I am consciously learning how healthy they are for our physical and mental health; our chemical balance, and for the soul. The landscape of rolling forests is peaceful and mystical at the same time, and we are near the top of a small hill, among thick pine trees, in scenery that looked tame enough for a Christmas card, but far enough from any settlement to see by the light of the stars and moon alone. I open the old man from Chita’s little grey cardboard book and read the first haiku. without roots we cannot flower 木木木

The first time I heard the term ′forest bathing’ was at 4 am, in Banff, Canada. It was the middle of January, and I was half way up through the trees of Sulphur mountain. I had a long knife in hand in the absence of a pick axe or walking stick, to stab at the icy snow on the steep incline and a heavy old rubber mattress thrown over my shoulder, and twisted together at the hip. The plan was to climb the mountain, blow up the rubber mattress and speed down again, and continue my journey all the way to the Darien Gap, and Kuna Indians, over the next few months. It was tough work going up the mountainside. Not so much because of the steepness, but because of the deep snow up to my waist, and I wanted to widen a path, so that my ride down would happen at speed. It was also tough work as I had not quite got over my long summer and autumn’s work, first tree planting, then burning old tree tumps, followed by carrying heavy loads of water on my back to put out smouldeting tree stumps, before finally graduating to lumberjack, and felling trees for miles and miles into late autumn. No-one could accuse me of idealistically falling in love with forests — my relationship had been physical. The Japanese woman on the ledge had been watching me for a while when I arrived. I had started at 4 am. She had started earlier, or more likely had trekked up faster. Or both; she had been on the Japanese Women’s Everest Expedition a few years earlier. Our conversation was brief, some might say terse, or aphoristic: to her quizzical look I had offerred an explanation of enjoying being on the forested slopes in winter. “You ever heard of forest-bathing?’’ she asked. “Oh, you mean because of the rubber mattress?” I answered, lifting it off my shoulder. “No. It’s what you’re doing. Getting in the good air,” she said. “They studied the benefits in Japan a couple years ago, and it’s called Shinrin-Joku. Forest bathing.” somewhere far in the woods under the pine’s speckled sunlight a tiny acorn gives birth

I blew up the inflatable mattress, jumped on and sped down the steep hill through the forest, down the gulley I had made walking upwards. At the bottom of the mountain my travelling partners arrived by pick-up. I duly got picked up, and we drove down to Central America. And I forgot about forest bathing until Guatemala, a few months and many miles later.

under the trees leaves and shadows of leaves only shadows stay

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When I arrived in Guatemala I befriended two honey collectors in the lush bushes up the sides of a volcano. The path we were on went straight up, no matter how steep the side of the volcano became, straight up through the trees, then areas of grass, then trees. And they walked fast. Fast meant really fast, up the slope. It was a lesson learnt, in many different ways — in general, our lifestyle is worse than many in the developing world. Of course, on that day on the volcano I had very little style, and not much life in my limbs either. They stopped, politely.

“I will let you go,” I said, “you are too fast!”

The elder of the two men patted his midriff and smiled: “Have some wild forest honey!” he said in Spanish.

He put his hand in the bag he had slung at his hip, and took a glass jar out, opened it, then took a tortilla out and dipping it into the jar, gave it to me. I chewed the honey-dipped bread. It was suitably delicious.

The forest honey on my tortilla was a dark, deep amber; real medicine, and strongly antibacterial. When honey is applied on a cut, graze or scrape, an enzyme from bees called glucose oxidase activates the release of H2O2. Forest honey, the most medicinal of all honies, can even kill antibiotic-resistant bacteria like MRSA. It is also hydroscopic and pulls water away from an infected wound by osmosis. Dryer wounds heal faster, but honey also pulls lymph fluid to the wound, making balanced healing, and this honey’s low pH of between 3 and 4, makes it acidic. Bacteria cannot survive in an acidic environment.

The unrefined forest honey on the tortilla was my excuse to immerse myself into my environment. I waved goodbye to my companions and admired the view through the trees, thankful for the cover as the rain poured. As I sat, I thought of ways to render the exotic appeal of the surroundings onto paper in haiku, to convey the atmosphere of purity and harmony.

Below me in the tinsel light of the rain, I saw a shining river winding its path between the hills, and made my way downwards towards it. Great Mayan cities were carved out of the jungle here, cities now so hidden that one can really only stumble on them by accident. I took out my notebook and waded into the river, and sat on a small smooth rock to watch the current stream pleasantly by, the clear surface of the river broken by the fast patter of raindrops. It was then that a rubber raft came drifting around the bend, with four occupants, three men abnd one woman, in mid-conversation.

“Ah’m tellin’ ye!’’ shouted the man in front, in broad Scots dialect, and bright red Celtic hair . “Tha’ bloody rum’s poison man, gie’ us a whisky any day!’’

“Nah,’’ his colleague insisted in Carribean lilt and big laugh, “there is nothin’ compared to rum man!’’

Seeing me just are they were seen by me, they both expertly swivelled the rubber craft round with their wooden paddles to where I sat.

“Join us man,’’ said the Carribean, all smiles again contrasting with ebony skin. “My name’s Claymore, that reprobrate there is McGillan,’’ he laughed, in a fitting Jamaican accented musical tone, “and this is Beatrice, from Canada, and there’s Guillermo,’’ he said, pointing to the third man holding his oar as a rudder, having pioted the dinghy alongside me.

I got in. Beatrice, long-haired with red bandana, red-flowered wrap and bikini top, sat on the opposite side of the dinghy and I picked up a paddle amd dipped it into the river, swivelling it back.

“Well Ah’m nae normally one tae argue mind,’’ McGillan continued to Claymore, in full swing, “Ah’d waste neither disinfectin’ yer backside frae the tooth marks of tha’ croc over there!’’

We turned quickly to see a small alligator floating slowly in our direction, snout causing a few small bubbles to escape as it watched us guide by.

“Hey man,’’ said Claymore, “the alligator that bites your butt gets a drink from me!”

“You bloody men,’’ said the woman called Beatrice.

The forest murmured constantly with almost electric activity, but not all the noises blended in, just as the flash of colours of a macaw startled against the background of green, so a high pitched cry or deep rumble caught the senses sharply. Large butterflies, in translucent blue fluttered out of reach, almost in a dance, and no again near the riverbank on either side there was a sudden plop! As an animal quickly jumped into the water as we swept by; frogs perhaps. This was haiku country, and surely Bashō would have felt inspired among the lush, green vegetation.

Then Guillermo said: “Look!’’

Beatrice was still finishing a drawing. “The calm tranquillity of the woman’s mind,’’ she had just said, as she sketched in a long thick phallic tree trunk that bent slightly upwards over the water. Guillermo seemed to see things that we did not with our untrained eyes. He stood watching the jungle from the raft, looking at things that had happened here years ago, gesturing at what was indistinguishable in the thick forest. He quickly and easily leapt ashore picking a leaf and chewing it, then picking another from a different tree, We stepped out of the raft, causing Beatrice to look up, and waded to the river bank.

“I am Lacandón Mayan,’’ Guillermo said, as he led us up the steep bank into the forest, “my people live here long, long time ago. We came to the jungle to escape the Conquistadores, and have been a forest people since. When we farm in the jungle, nosotros, us Lacandon, we farm with nature. We mix plot of land with different plants so we don’t starve mother earth. We grow lemon, onion, pepper, corn, watermelon, all in same place. We grow banana and papaya trees to shade, so the rhythm of the forest does not change. We don’t have disease spreading on our land because we don’t grow only one kind of plant. The earth keeps strong because different plants’ needs are different.’’ He looked around. “Here we can build a incense burner renewal ceremony hut.”

The jungle looked untouched. To Guillermo, however, the pattern of the jungle had been modified, and soon we came up to some light undergrowth. We walked around what appeared to be a large mound, and pulled at the tangled branches.

“I think there’s a way in here,” said Claymore.

“Do ye then?” Asked McGillan about thirty minutes later, as we pulled and chopped and cut. A passage way finally appeared, and we slithered into the entrance, an entrance that was paved with chunks of stone. There was room for one down the small rectangular corridor, and room for two in the small chamber at the end of it. Rough scratched on stones set around patches of earth were all that was left of the probable etched hieroglyphics and artefacts.

“People have been here before us,” said Guillermo, “only the forests have stayed.” He looked up towards the treetops. “The name Guatemala comes from Nahuatl Cuauhtēmallān, ′place of many trees,’ a translation of the Mayan K’iche, ′many trees’,” he said.

in my forest I hunt for words -trees are stories

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Up near the Arctic Circle, there is magic afoot during the winter months. We know that Santa was a shaman in his big black boots, collecting the Fly Agraic mushroom, red with white dots from the forest, and feeding it to his reindeer then drinking the mix when their livers had removed the toxins, or putting them in a big sack and later hanging them to dry above the fireplace. And these magic mushrooms that grow under the fir trees, with ethereal fertilisation, are symbolised now with the draping of silver-coloured tinsel over the so-called Christmas tree, in reality the world tree, the tinsel symbolising sperm.

Of course, after eating the magic mushrooms the deer fly, and Santa laughs, with red cheeks, and the Siberian tribal and Saami people’s myth of the world tree is real. If you would like to treat yourself to one of these mushrooms, make sure you boil it first, unless you have any reindeer around. And then come North, and see the northern lights, glowing, moving behind the silhouettes of pine trees and watch, touch our magic, natural world.

snowflakes drift

as plum blossoms open in Seoul

and in my memories

The world tree has been ursuped and used in many homes as the Christmas tree, but if people wanted to follow the Nativity scene more closely they would use a palm tree. Palms are wonderful, magical trees in their own right.

two tall palms

in monsoon rains

give a coconut kiss

I briefly mentioned living in the deserts of the Middle East. What I meant was working as in-house environmental consultant for the Saudi Arabian oil company, based in a desert town called Abqaiq, meaning Tiny Bug, over the world’s largest oil field, the Ghawar Field, and on the edge of Al Ahsa oasis, with its 30 million palm trees, in the Eastern Province. 30 million trees is a lot of dates.

in only one date the taste of paradise — never eaten alone

Walking through the immense date plantation, shaded by the broad patterned leaves in a day exotic with heat was always a thrill. Meeting bedouins in the evening, who had nothing to offer but the best hospitality and warm sand dunes, under a backdrop of a wide, clear sky full of stars and the aroma of roasted cardamon coffee, the cardoman, as always, from the Guatemalan highlands, and the coffee possibly too, served with fresh, frothed camel milk and genuine conversation; a life at its most luxurious.

in coffee friendship

embers from the dancing fire

-floating stars

At the fringe of the large date palm plantation I stopped one evening, and walked towards a small oasis set in the wavy, curved lines of the desert sands. The oasis was surrounded by lush green palm trees, some tall and stooped, and some thick and rigid. I knelt down and reached deep into the cool, fresh water, and lifting my cupped hands drunk some and splashed my face. When I looked up I saw her sitting at the waterside about fifty yards away, opposite me, between the trees. Her legs were in the cool water of the oasis and she’d pulled her black abaya up to her thighs. I had startled her and she started to pull the abaya downwards but stopped when I smiled and touched my forefinger to my lips.

The oasis took on a creamy glow as the sun set in the desert somewhere in the distance. She kept her abaya up on her thighs, kicking in the water, softly, as I sat on the opposite side of the oasis, taking in her etheral beauty. Finally she stood up, carefully letting her abaya drop from uncurling, long fingers. Pushing a large palm leaf aside she turned to walk away in the sand, and glanced back for one long moment before making her way up the sand dune behind her.

Only in Saudi Arabia could one share such an illicit, sensual spell.

the setting sun

melts into shadows

and shadows melt into night

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I am reminded again of the inbuilt need of western culture and civilisation to proletise, often found these days through the workings of charities, who go to great lengths to inform us of noble savages around the world who need our help to care for their environment and develop, by which the charity companies really mean they want our money.

In Kerala, sitting on a houseboat made from reeds on one of the many waterways through the jungle, I was told thatt the first tree huggers were from India; 294 men and 69 women of the Bishnois branch of Hinduism, who died in 1730 while trying to protect the trees in their village from becoming raw material for building a palace. They clung to the trees while being slaughtered. But their action led to a royal decree prohibiting the cutting of trees in any Bishnoi village. Thee days the villages are virtual wooded oases amid an otherwise desert landscape.

The Bishnois inspired the Chipko movement (chipko means “to cling” in Hindi) that started in the 1970s, when a group of peasant women in the Himalayan hills of northern India threw their arms around trees designated to be cut down. Within a few years, this tactic, also known as tree satyagraha, spread across India, forcing reforms in forestry and a ban on tree-felling in Himalayan regions.

among the trees only thoughts and shadows move

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The traveller, farmer, writer or must seek isolation, whether he or she likes it or not. So I walk through the forests and hills back to where Yenisei has fashioned a small yurt from branches and canvas, marveling that yet again I found my way. Through Bashō we learn that the true writer does not lead a sedentary life, and indeed must walk in order to express his or her syllables. Bashō walked for 156 days through Japan in his legendary ′Deep Road to the Far North,’ series of haibun that defined the term.

By walking on his long walk, Bashō also demonstrated that the true haiku and haibun haijin’s tool is not the pen but the wooden staff. Not only does this staff lift branches and part bushes to see the dew drops and flower petals, but it can also be leant on when searching the sky for floating eagles, patterned clouds and drifting cherry blossoms. The wooden staff also taps haiku on a road perfectly, like a variant of morse code message to nature:

win—ter—is—o—ver

a—dog—barks—to—each—tap

of—my—carved—staff

My journey is in fact a journal of nature—a kikôbun. Ahaibun is a pilgrimage, maybe only of ideas, but a kikôbun has no destination, despite being a journey. The travel journal that is the kikôbun denotes a wanderer that is not Quixotic in his or her reveries, but rather seeks to record. A sword or lance of any kind must therefore be put aside for other quests, as a kikôbun merely takes from the nature that is seen when walked through, to put onto lines on pages. The semiotic wooden walking staff therefore takes on symbolic meaning.

My wooden staff— the kikôbun’s sword carving thoughts

Not Don Quixote, nor wandering samurai, what, then? Like the Navajo in the southwestern states, who use wooden tools on mother earth lest they leave scars, I don’t set out to make an impression that might not heal.

my staff slices the trees still stand and yet…

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The ice patterns blown onto plants are more beautiful than the flowers that briefly bloom in summer, and more fragile. But my journey into Siberia brought me equally tender and graceful moments, landscapes, untamed, grandiose, full of proud fir trees, and the natural home of Siberian religion, for the true Siberian religion is shamanism, and travelling through the Siberian taiga is also taking another journey into the spirit world with a shaman encountered on a muddy village path, or up in a grassland meadow.

I know shamanism well from the Saami people in Lappland, and find female shamans are able to reach further into the sky. Shamanism also has a spiritual home in the steppes of Kazakhstan, and Yakutia, in the north. From Kalmykia on the shores of the Caspian to Korea, true shamans listen and interpret what nature is trying to say. No traveller or journey man or woman can remain untouched by this simple and compelling spirituality.

to know your path follow the shadows of the tracks above you

I realise my guide Yenisei is a shaman first through her commitment to her forest environment, even before watching her use different herbs for nutrition and salvation, spiritual purposes that involved intricate rituals.

northern lights

the night sky whispers in colour at the edge of the town

Yenisei teaches me to be at one with the forest around me She does this by encouraging me to sense the forest as well as merely see it. As all simple messages, it takes time to fully understand and grasp, but as I do I feel real comfort.

pine trees gently sway -is it the wind blowing or is it my mind?

Her rituals are deeply personal, and intimate, and it feels like such an honour that she lets me watch, and participate, showing a trust one only finds among forest-dwellers. And I don’t take notes. The rituals of the shaman are not to be broadcast wherever one feels like, so I will give only the most basic of impressions here.

Before any sacred shaman ceremony, juniper is burnt. The very first step is the connection with nature, and the juniper must be sought and found. Yenisei chose the juniper bush carefully, studying the texture of the berries and tasting a few, before deciding on the right bush in the right location. She put her juniper berry mixture into some oil in a small bowl, which she heated with a candle in her hand and walked the perimetre of a clearing she had found with longest view facing northwards.

She took the rest of the juniper needles and berries and boiled them into an immune-strengthening tea that helps heal the digestive system, pulling energy into the solar plexus. This juniper berry tea acts as a diuretic to help support the function of the liver and kidneys and expel toxins, energising the endocrine system. Pine needles from other pine trees can also be used for tea, or birch bark, and nettles.

She started softly tapping her shaman drum. The rhythm of a drum further energises and awakens the inner senses., and she had specified no shyness or holding back when transprted by the beat of one’s rhythm. Then came the hush. My Evenki shaman listened, especially for the sacred cuckoo bird, a symbol of good luck: hearing it could improve your spirit and feeling — if we let it, and we listened to the sounds of nature for strength.

Yenisei then spoke, softly. She said juniper pine needles were dropped nto the hands of those taking part in the shaman ceremony. The closed hands are passed over the incense or oil lamp a few times, and palms are opened to reveal the pine needles, which are ‘read.’ Being right, or wrong, was not important. What was important was to come to a consensus about possible meanings, and that in this concensus the healing may begin.

sounds of the drum

through the trees echoes tapped

shaman

her eyes lit by fire

the yurt by song

We sleep a while. Then from my bag I take out a packet of coffee made by an Italian friend, roasting the coffee on the charcoal dawn fire. I serve it to Yenisei, as she purrs herself awake and unwraps herself, naked, from the fur. In front of our shelter a beautful sight: a ring of green fire, the Aurora Borealis.

midwinter night a dark sky's lights dance in the wolf's eyes

northern lights the magic world speaks shaman inspired

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I find it difficult in Novosibirsk, the capital of Siberia, and do not need to be in the capital of anywhere. Soon Yenisei will show me how to draw the birch sap from the trees, and I will literally taste the taiga. Today, though, Yenisei, my mysterious shaman has other duties to take care of, and so will make her own path alone, and let me make mine. We will part ways, my shaman and I, my guide, in more ways than one.

among the pine trees only one set of footprints- mine

And I write one more haiku, as I wach her become a small dot on a space between trees that is my horizon, walking lightly in the soft snow.

snowflakes and I on the path this morning even the trees are lonely

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We often talk about taking the train, but of course, the train takes you, just like a dream does. Everytime one steps up the steps of a train carriage, one steps into a dream.

on the train deep into the soul of Siberia we share bread and reverie

My travelling ccompanions on the train eastwards through the forests are American. American travellers busy sewing or sticking flags of Canada to bags and shirts is legendary and has almost become de rigeur. It is rare, however, that being an American is alone an offense, and cetainly not in Siberia. All the same, one of the Americans across from me is busy plastering Canadian patches on bags and clothing, before practicing the accent with a lot of lilted ‛ays.’

“I am not sure all the matriachical train station guards in the small towns along the railroad tracks will spot the difference,’’ I say.

“Hey man, you gotta do what you gotta do,’’ says the young man. “Where’s Snowden anyway?’’ he adds, “I’d like to meet him, maybe even bring him in. There must be some kind of reward.’’

“Well, Canadians wouldn’t be saying that,’’ I said, “and you never know what kind of microphones they have on trains.’’

The American goes quiet in contemplation, a silence broken only by the pretty sight of his travelling colleague, Linda, slipping out of her flip flops and painting her toenails bright red.

“I’d do this in the bathroom normally,’’ she chuckles.

She was from Florida, and wasn’t exactly sure where the train was heading.

“All the way to Vladivostok,’’ I answered.

“And no cute guys,’’ she said.

She was good-looking in a disharming sort of way, with strawberry blonde hair, but as such did not stand out in the carriage, aside from her flip flops which set her apart from the high heels worn by the Russian women on the train. Inside the compartment it was too warm as usual in eastern Europe, but most passengers have kept their sweaters on regardless, as if judging the temperature by the view outside, where patches of snow flashed by under the fir trees.

Linda puts her heels on the seat beside me across from where she sat. “I could paint a little white maple leaf on,’’ she giggles.

At a small station her male colleague dashes off to restock on food, eschewing the fresh pine pastries being sold from baskets on the platform and buying instead overpriced stale buns in plastic packets from the buffet.

“They even asked if I was American, man,’’ he says, mournefully, returning.

“Don’t worry, only the mosquitoes weren’t fooled,’’ says Linda.

winter morning- the scenery paints itself into my imagination

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I find out that about 150,000 inmates were imprisoned in more than 150 camps in the Perm region during the late 1940s. This was about a third of the working population of the region:

Perm-36 Labour Camp Schedule

Daily Schedule of a Gulag Prisoner Time Activity

6:00 AM Wake up call

6:30 AM Breakfast

7:00 AM Roll-call

7:30 AM1 ½ hour to march to forests, under guarded escort

6:00 PM1 ½ hour return march to camp

7:30 PM Dinner

8:00 PM After-dinner camp work duties (chop firewood, shovel snow, gardening, road repair, etc.)

11:00 PM Lights out

Much of the railroad has been laid by the bare hands of prisoners from labour camps, whose prison was Siberia itself. Gulags rarely needed fences or guard towers. Escapees were never going to get far. And the railroad still crushes the bones of those who perished building it.

Not everyone who laid down rail lines in Siberia was a prisoner. Many volunteered, and even stayed afterwards. Those people have a special inner peace about them. An understanding and deep respect of nature. They are people who prefer the numbing colds of winter to the pleasant summers, full of unforeseen dangers and reckless laziness.

Their sense of freedom is like nothing experienced elsewhere, and maybe all the more so because it is worked so hard for. Freedom in the land of gulags. It is an interesting thought. But for all its history of brutality and horror, Siberia is a vast, mystical land, a land of shamans who reach where the church or mosque doesn’t, and where temperature plunges so low that cement or metal foundations of buildings are useless next to the hardy wooden ones of the taiga, thus proving, once again that nature wins.

the further one travels

the more opens up

behind us

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Two decades ago I drank a glass or two of homemade wine on a front porch, with a retired postman who’d walked home from Toliatti, on the Volga, from the non-descript decrepid town somewhere on a trainline in the middle of Russia.

Delivering the post had been his job — to the Hungarian eighth army who had invaded the Soviet Union in support of German troops, during the Second World War. And János delivered mail. He collected it from the train, or trucks and delivered it to the front line troops. This is a more important role than it first appears, for a man cannot fight without news that his loved ones are well.

It was love that made János walk. In the middle of the Second War and the middle of Toliatti, János delivered his mail and kept walking. He walked out of the town, along the trainline, then through the taiga, through the trees, over forested hills, across rivers and sleeping in the woods on the edges of villages. He walked, and walked, all the way back to Eastern Hungary, across the steppes then great plain. He walked under stars, raindrops and hailstones, from sunrises to sunsets, to the golden soils of the wine-growing town of Tokaj, back to his wife.

When he arrived back, he discovered his sister-in-law had been taken away, just taken off to the gulags of Siberia. So he turned around and walked again, attempting to find her, somewhere in the hugeness that was the Siberian taiga. He never found out what happened to her, but still now missed the Siberian forests, and especially the tribespeople that were its inhabitants. As I sat in Tokaj, Eastern Hungary, drinking his delicious homemade wine, which he kept in a wine cellar dug into the hillside, I noticed her picture, his sister-in-law, hanging on the wall; a beautiful young woman, the portrait soft in the evening glow.

János spoke no English but we understood each other very well. We shared much, János and I, much of the same soul, as we refilled or glasses, glancing at the portrait of the young woman who died in the gulag.

water drop on a branch from a cloud far above — tiny tree magnified

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We are in Yekatinberg. Among the Ural mountains outside Yekatinberg’s eastern balconies in pine-scented forests, I think of János and his long monthly walk, passing through here years before. I am not a man of the pencil-line horizon, and I walk upwards, to the nearest peak, to compose my haiku.

high in mountain forests where even shadows don’t reach nature inspires through silence

Siberia is home to so many who live with nature. Winter, when traps are laid, and fresh water comes from holes dug deep in the ice, is discreetly turning towards spring. I always miss the hard, yet pristine environment of the winter months in the forest. Winter is a time when travel is often easier, across solid lakes and rivers and through frozen forests. It is a time when hospitality is offered, when bears are not around near villages, nor dangerous ticks and bothersome mosquitos in muddy parts of the forests.

Soon though, the bears will be out again, and hungry. It is not possible to chase them away when fishing. They will always come back, so must be shot. The leaves will shimmer in the breeze. It will be harder to follow animal tracks, and easier for animals to keep their distance from hunters. In Tyumen I will only see the fort from afar. I don’t mind. I feel at home among the birch and pine trees, and castles all seem seem to share such similar histories.

Tyumen fort shines at night not as much as the birch trees -such longing

I look over at Linda, now applying another colour of nailpolish. I imaged her taking a few barefoot steps with snow melting.

she walks in the snow until the grass at the edge of spring

But by the time I have scribbled my three lines and looked up again out of the train window it is snowing:

how thoughtless-

spring blossoms are late yet another haiku about snow

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Stragglers are we. All for what? Sometimes, like now, its good to get off before the end of the journey, then the journey really never ends. Until then, the traps are set. The night is young. The snow is fresh. I’ve seen the tracks. The conditions are difficult for the elk right now. The snow is not strong enough to support elks, so they often get stuck, making easy meat for hungry wolves and awakening bears. And an elk, or caribou in north America, can provide food for a long time.

But the taiga used to be home to a much larger mammal: for four hundred years, thousands of mammoth tusks have been found in Siberia, about fifty thousand of them, from mammoths almost intact, with many organs perfectly frozen and stomachs half full of food — at times the blood still viscous due to the ‘anti-freeze’ components found in the blood, so called cryptoprotective properties, as in Arctic amphibians and fish.

It is quite easy to imagine that at some point in the future a mammoth is going to be cloned using that viscous blood. Large animals like the woolly mammoth could help stabilise the ecosystem in parts of Siberia.

But why so many mammoths ended up in Siberia remains a real mystery. Why did millions of the woolly mammoth move to the cold in Siberia, and how did they die so quickly after eating? Did a massive cold front move suddenly from the Arctic? That would be a climatic condition that does not exist today. If this is the case, it would have been very cold — freezing a mammoth suddenly and quickly is no easy thing at all. It would have taken temperatures as low as -100°C. The mystery is far from solved…

so many tusks found far in the Siberian tundra we step over ancients

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On the Road of Bones you never travel alone. Here, they say, words themselves freeze, dropping in tiny fragments, tinkling like a wind chime. This is the notorious road built by the prisoners of the Gulags, the torture camps.The road stretches to Magadan on the Pacific ocean, from Yakutsk in Yakutia, a vast mysterious republic within the even larger emptiness of Siberia. A republic that would be the eighth largest country in the world if fully independent, with a population of just 1 Million.

In the distance

more forest

—and more distance

Here in Yakutia the temperature can plunge to -60°C, rendering the road a gamble that only those needing to escape a misdemeanor take, or those imbibed with a certain madness. But who would go in summer, when the mud and mosquitoes make escape almost impossible and madness almost sure?

So the best time to go is in late winter, before the melting of snow and floods, when the cold is loosening its bitter grip - but even then it is dangerous, for when the temperature rises it begins to snow heavily again, after being too cold to snow during the winter months. And the wolves are hungry by then. And I mean hungry. Last winter a pack of 400 wolves killed 300 horses before they were finally driven away. But we gamble. We leave behind the rugged Yakutians who want us to stay until June, the summer solstice, and the start of the new year in Yakutia, when the republic is full of festivities, and greets the rising sun in the morning as one.

sunrise- drumbeats of snow thud

from high branches

Yakutia means a chance to also explore the Buddhist nature that lies within each of us. I sit facing the last of the taiga, the last birch tree, and compose my haiku – peacefully, I thought.

pine needles make a comfortable rest oh! stinging ants!

And I return to the train. The Trans-Siberian, and stare at the early morning dawn.

trees touch sunlight something blossoms in me I ask no more of my forest

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The train nears the Pacific coast, near to the land of volcanoes called Kamchatka, but on this journey we are only passing by, and our last stop will be Vladivostok. Vladivostok is the kind of city I would like to arrive to at dawn, and there has always been something fascinating about this last city on a train line that one could start in Portugal if one so desired, with a few waits on station platforms in-between.

In Vladivostok we will be near the North Korean border but also near to Japan. But for now I would be satisfied to sit on a wooden bench facing the Pacific. I think about Ese, photographer and writer who drove up from Bulgaria to the beautifully forested Carpathian mountains of Western Ukraine, to be my translator and travel companion at the start of my journey through Siberia. Together we hiked from village to village, tasting the homemade wine and raindrops, sleeping in bales of hay and cottages, walls covered with local hammered tin art.

While trekking a trail that wound up through pine forests on steep hills where small brooks and streams tumbled, and Carpathian chamois carefully took their quick morning drinks I sat against a tree trunk and edited a draft of her fascinating book, Butterfly Thy Name, a raw intimate journal covering her inner desires, while she joked with me about coming on the Trans-Siberian and adding another exotic chapter. Ese was disarmingly frank.

“I have an idea that a half Ukrainian, half Georgian lumberjack with fine equipment would be an exciting, erotic mix,’’ she declared, and smiled when I said “Vladivostok or bust!”

hello Ese I am here at last, facing the sea — without you

And then I know with rare certainty that when I arrive in Vladivostok I will already miss the trees of the Siberian taiga:

-her beauty

thousands of miles away

in the immediacy of my mind

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Some notes on Shinrin-Joku, or Forest Bathing:

The history of forests is an alternative history. Yet looking back, we can see clear signs of how trees contributed to physical and mental heath. Tuberculosis, for example, was incurable only a smattering of decades ago. Up to the mid 20th century it was the norm to send people to the mountains in Switzerland, or somewhere where the air was fresh. But when those afflicted by the deadly lung disease went to the hills, where were they going, exactly? They were not going to the peaks, but in fact to the mountain forests. It was not specificaly mountain air that was healing, but perhaps more the forests, from the pines and fir trees, which grow on elevations from the sea up to 3960 metres on a mountainside. The Paimio Tuberculosis sanatorium, in Finland, was an example of this, where until the 1950s patients were wheeled out into the forest itself, which was more or less at sea level. Contrary to expectations, results also seemed to be magnified when the forest air trapped moisture.

Rehabilitation through interaction with forestry has long included psychological issues. When one is deep in a forest, on a path between tall trees all three potentially negative issues melt away. Among the many reasons to preserve our ancient forests, the emotional ones stand tall. Forests are the perfect landscape to cultivate what are called transcendent experiences—unforgettable moments, of attunement to that outside the self, and moments that are ultimately perceived as very important to each of us.

It was in 1982 that the Forest Agency of Japan unveiled shinrin-yoku, forest bathing, in the beautiful woods of Yakushima. Yakushima was chosen because it contains some of Japan’s most pristine forests, including those of select cedar trees that are over 1,000 years old.

The first findings of shinrin-yoku testing showed lower levels of the stress hormone cortisol in subjects after forest walks, compared with those who took laboratory walks. It was the first hint that a walk in a forest might not be the same as a walk in a different environmental setting.

We know now that time within forests reduces psychological stress, depressive symptoms, and hostility, while at the same time improving sleep and increasing both vigor and a feeling of liveliness, and lowering blood pressure and pulse rate. Studies also show increased heart rate variability, which is a good thing because it means the circulatory system can to respond well to stress.

Research has shown that the emotions of pleasure and happiness are elevated with an increase in tree density. The bigger and denser the trees, the higher the scenic beauty scores—up to a point. Arguably the composition of the air intake, the serenity and at times majesty or beauty of the surroundings will all have a role to play. Forest bathing; spending time in forests, increases ability to focus.

It takes only twenty minutes of shinrin-yoku to alter cerebral blood flow to a state of relaxation and opyomose hemoglobin (as found in red blood cells). Stress hormones that can compromise immune defense are dramatically reduced. This is vital: activities of antiviral white blood natural killer cells are suppressed by stress hormones.

Since forest bathing can lower stress hormone production and elevate mood states, it is not surprising that it can also influence immune system strength, specifically increases in the number of white blood natural killer cells, increases in the functional activity of these antiviral cells and increases in the amount of intracellular anticancer proteins. In addition, the level of the hormone serum adiponectin is also increased. When this hormone is present in low concentrations it is linked with obesity, type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and metabolic syndrome, among other bodily disorders. These changes can be noted at a significant level for a full week after some time in a forest.

Natural chemicals secreted by evergreen trees, collectively known as phytoncide, such as a-pinene and limonene, have also been associated with improvements in the activity of our frontline immune system. Measurements of the amount of phytoncides in the air during studies have correlated the content to improvements in immune functioning. In the fresh forest air we breathe in the phytoncides. The trees give off these chemicals to protect themselves from insects. Phytoncides have antibacterial and antifungal qualities which help the evergreen trees and plants fight disease. When we take in these chemicals, our bodies respond by increasing the number and activity of a type of white blood cell natural killer cells. Increased activity from these important calls from three-day, two-night forest bathing trip lasts for more than thirty days.

Spending time in forests gives the cognitive portion of our brain a break, allowing us to focus better and renew our ability to be calm. Patients recover from surgery faster and better when they have a view of trees, and had fewer postsurgical complications compared to those who had no view or a view of a cement wall. The use of pain medications is significantly lower than that of rooms with no plants; patients have lower blood pressure and heart rate, and rated their pain to be much lower. Patients who have plants in their rooms also have comparatively higher energy levels, more positive thoughts, and lower levels of anxiety.

Since a view of nature or a few potted plants can influence subjective and objective measures of stress, and maybe get us out of the hospital faster, it seems likely that nature can keep us out of the infirmary to begin with. The first indication that this might be the case was examination of the annual sick records of the State Prison of Southern Michigan, which highlighted a glaring difference in health-care utilisation based on prison cell location. Those inmates housed in the cells facing outside to a view of forests had far fewer visits to the medical division than did those inmates housed with a view of a concrete yard.

Research in Japan showed that greening select high school classrooms with potted plants for a four-month trial period significantly reduced visits to the infirmary compared with age-matched students attending classes without the visible plants.

But forests need not be merely admired. Forest gardening is historically the prime source of gardening in tropical regions and the most traditional of land use forms. It is also probably the most resilient of agroecosystems, and are the most common form of land use in Kerala, in southern India. They are also common in Nepal, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Sri Lanka, Mexico and Java, and have been shown to be a significant source of income and food security for local populations. These gardens exemplify polyculture, in layers, building a woodland habitat, and conserve much crop genetic diversity and heirloom plants that are not found in monocultures.

Kerala has three and a half million forest gardens. Even the smallest forest garden can hold over twenty coconut palms, over ten cloves, over fifty banana and pineapple trees and thirty pepper vines, with additional fodder.

In Nepal, 70% of households have home gardens of an area 2–11% of the total land holdings, cultivated with a mixture of annual and perennial plants that can be harvested on a daily or seasonal basis. Biodiversity that has an immediate value is maintained in home gardens, as women and children have easy access to preferred food, and for this reason alone we should promote home gardens as a key element for a healthy way of life.

A natural forest is divided into seven distinct layers:

a ‘canopy’ layer

a ‘low-tree’ layer of smaller nut and fruit trees

a ‘shrub layer’ of fruit bushes

a ‘herbaceous layer’ of perennial vegetables and herbs

a ‘ground cover’ layer of edible plants

a ‘rhizosphere’ of plants grown for their roots and tubers

a ‘vertical layer’ of vines and climbers.

Forest Gardens are ideal projects for open spaces such as industrial wastelands, where trees can be planted, where even in heavily built up areas, new ‘city forests’ could contain perennial vegetables with little intervention.

At some stage forest gardening leads to forest farming, combining trees with crops or livestock, or both, on the same piece of land. Products typically fit into the following categories: edible, medicinal and dietary supplements, floral or decorative, or specialty wood-based products. Toyohiko Kagawa, who began forest farming in Japan during the 1930s, persuaded many of Japan’s farmers to plant fodder trees to conserve soil, supply food and feed animals. Then World War II disrupted communication and slowed his advances in forest farming, unfortunately changing the course of agriculture again.

Researchers in Japan and South Korea are re-establishing that connection again, with their scientific advances in the study of forest bathing. Perhaps one of the greatest benefits I personally discovered about shinrin-yoku, that stays with me, is the way it starts, and deepens long enduring friendships.

how many plants

Can I fit into

one haiku-

木木木

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i-am-very-very-tired · 8 years ago

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Director, Jon Hershfield, MFT Mindfulness and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for individuals and families affected by OCD, Anxiety, and related disorders Home About Us Services Free OCD Group Jon’s Blog Media Links Contact Us Previous Next HOCD (Sexual Orientation OCD): Part Four – Denial I don’t know if you’re gay. I don’t know if what you are experiencing is a fraud perpetrated against yourself, identifying as one sexual orientation while secretly being of another, and having both the insight to know it’s a secret and the pre-meditation and masochism to keep that secret from yourself. All I know is this – if you are obsessing and engaging in compulsions, it will fail to bring about certainty. The word “denial” is at the root of all forms of OCD. It is popularized culturally to relate to issues of sexual orientation, but every person with any form of obsessive compulsive disorder experiences the fear of “denial” whenever they choose to do exposure instead of rituals. The compulsive hand washer who chooses to allow themselves to touch a dollar bill and then eat a french fry is sitting with the terror that they may be in denial of the cold hard fact that a molecule of someone’s feces may have made its way from the dollar, to the fry, to their mouth. The Harm OCD sufferer, who lives in a war-torn mind of horrific images of violence against loved ones, holds a baby in their arms and tries to breathe evenly while covertly contemplating whether or not they are simply in denial of their closeted sociopathic “true” nature. Still, nowhere does this word “denial” get tossed around more than in the context of HOCD, the obsessive compulsive fear of being or becoming a sexual orientation not your own. So what is denial? This? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsVpdBIi1BU Unlikely. Denial is actively choosing to behave in a way that directly opposes your values or beliefs without being aware of or acknowledging it. An excellent example of this is the character Milton in the film Office Space. He stops getting paid, loses his office, is completely rejected by everyone, yet shows up for work, and continues to clock in and out on time. He gets his revenge in the end, but the character is mostly portrayed as a deranged idiot. Somewhere at the core of HOCD is a fear that society at large will view you this way, as a deranged idiot who should have known what was going on. A person in denial in the context of sexual orientation is a person who repeatedly engages in gay sexual activities and refuses to acknowledge that any part of him/her has a same-sex attraction. It is not simply the behavior (many people of one orientation enjoy experiences of other-orientation), but the refusal to acknowledge the behavior that makes it denial. A man who sneaks off from his wife in the middle of the night to have sex with other men is not necessarily in denial. He may be fully aware of what he is doing and simply making a choice to do so. We might say a woman who repeatedly blacks out after a night of binge drinking and misses work, but refuses to acknowledge the role alcohol plays in her getting fired, is in denial of her alcoholism. Still, there remains some problems with attempting to define denial. First, the term is laden with connotations popularized by psychoanalysts, springing from a theory of psychology that hinges on the idea that people suddenly discover who they are after relieving themselves of repressed thoughts and feelings. This translates into pop culture commentary such as “he’s in denial” without the term actually meaning anything other than “I think that person’s gay.” Second, obsessive compulsive disorder involves a deficit in tolerance of uncertainty, so when we try to define “denial” as the state of purposefully disregarding one’s genuine desires, it becomes a frustrating endeavor. What does genuine mean? How can we be certain that the thought about an act is different from the desire to engage in the act? An easier exercise would be to identify what denial is not: Denial is not: Choosing to disregard thoughts, feelings, and sensations associated with another sexual orientation Pursuing relationships of meaning and value despite thoughts and feelings whose content seems incompatible with this pursuit Committing to relationships you are invested in despite the presence of doubtful thoughts about sexual orientation Accepting the presence (without guilt, disgust or fear) of sexual fantasies outside of your historically preferred orientation Letting go of seeking reassurance about your orientation Accepting uncertainty regarding your sexual orientation and the label that goes with it Love and HOCD One common concern among HOCD sufferers is that if they choose to accept uncertainty and stop doing rituals, they may discover that they are gay and that discovery will result in a revelation to their loved ones that they have been lying about their orientation. The fear thrives on an image of a tearful husband or wife feeling deceived, tricked, lead on a long and ultimately meaningless journey to middle age alone, the victim of a fraud perpetrated by the a fool who couldn’t come to terms with their homosexuality. In other words, “I can’t just be with this person I love if there is any doubt as to the meaning of these gay thoughts, so I must get certainty to protect my loved one from a future betrayal.” To the contrary, cognitive behavioral treatment for HOCD when there is a significant other involved must include exposure to the idea of denial and the way in which it could destroy the other person. HOCD becomes a form of Harm OCD in this way. So in addition to imaginal scripting exposures in which the sufferer could write out the feared consequences of persisting in gay denial in a relationship, the sufferer should also do exposures to strengthening their relationship. By investing more fully and more completely in their love for their significant other (despite sexual dysfunction that may have occurred due to OCD anxiety), they are getting both exposure to the fear of destroying a loved one and, as an interesting side effect, a better, more meaningful relationship. In short, invest in your relationships in such a way that if they fail, it will be the most devastating. That is romance. Loving Your Friends People often write to me about their confusing feelings for their platonic friends (this is especially common in younger people it seems). Not to put too fine a point on it, but what often distinguishes our friends from lovers is whether or not we stimulate each other’s genitals. Much of the hallmarks of romantic relationships are congruent with platonic ones: mutual interests, unconditional respect, reliability, feeling good in the presence of each other, all of these experiences are indicators of healthy friendships. Because these relationships are essential for healthy functioning on a very basic level (friends help watch your kids while you’re outside the cave hunting mammoths), they become a source of anxiety. What if I lose my friend? This makes them an easy target for OCD. So while I can’t give you certainty about whether or not you are in love with your friend, I can tell you what HOCD sufferers often fear is gay denial and simply isn’t: Anxious butterflies in your stomach when you get a call from or see your friend Desiring physical closeness with a friend Having intrusive sexual thoughts about a friend (note: people with Harm OCD have intrusive thoughts of harming the ones they care about) Feeling love for a friend Feeling no one else can understand you like your friend Testing, Testing, One Two, One Two The root of all HOCD evil is testing. Testing means seeking out emotional or genital stimulation for the purpose of attaining certainty about your sexual orientation. This often comes disguised as exposure with response prevention (ERP) but is actually a wolf in gay clothing. What I mean by this is it’s a setup by the OCD to get you to think you are doing therapy when in fact you are just doing compulsions. Watching gay pornography and masturbating to it for the purpose of checking to see how easy it was, then analyzing how easy it was in an attempt to prove to yourself that you are definitely straight or gay is just a convoluted compulsion and has no chance of benefit. Exposure without response prevention is not OCD treatment. It is just responding to unwanted thoughts with self-reassurance and mental review again. Compulsively masturbating to different material, gay or straight, with the intention of proving something, will always backfire in the end. People who get stuck on this compulsion create a feedback loop of gradually conditioning themselves to become more and more stimulated by their fears, but, sadly, without getting to really enjoy any of it. There’s nothing wrong with enjoying sexual fantasies that feel taboo or are different in some way than the real sexual relationships you like to pursue. But compulsive testing often leads to hours and hours of desperately trying to feel aroused by something and then studying the minutia of your response to it, killing any chance of it being genuine sexual exploration. Was my orgasm as big as it is to my preferred orientation? Did my penis swell the exact amount, less, or more? Did my vagina respond the way it would to my husband? These are bait laid out by the OCD for you to do more and more compulsions. Only now they come with their own evidence, a mountain of gay porn and shaming sexual manipulation. If it came without the shame and without the analysis, it could be a beautiful thing. Exploring your sexual mind is as much an act of mindfulness as any. But like all forms of mindfulness, the value exists only in non-judgmental, non-shaming exploration, curiosity about what you find, not desperation. It’s like demanding your doctor keep running tests for a disease you fear and then using all the testing as evidence that the doctor must think you have it! Collecting evidence about your orientation by testing your reactions to sexual material doesn’t work. Evidence collected during the course of a compulsion is no more evidence than a confession derived by torture is a reliable source of the truth. Hello, Good Bi In the end, unless you are willing to do ERP to the idea that you may be in “gay denial” and so long as you remain committed to achieving certainty about (instead of confidence in) your sexual orientation, there will always be material for your OCD to bait you with. This is not a challenge unique to HOCD, though it often feels that way. People with contamination OCD eventually need to expose to the uncertainty over whether they are just trying to get away with being irresponsible or disgusting. People with Harm OCD still have to expose to the idea that they are just trying to blend in and not get caught being psychopaths. The obsession with sexual orientation and labeling it correctly may go on for years, decades, coming and going throughout your life, being addressed with and without therapy, lurking in the shadows, then pouncing with the threat of gay denial when you least expect it. Until you do exposure to denial, you are only scratching the surface. ERP specifically targeted at denial fears may be more nuanced or abstract than ERP to a fear of being gay. Typical exposures for HOCD fears may involve looking at triggering materials, listening to triggering music, and being around triggering people (all without doing compulsions of course). But for the specific fear of being denial, life itself is the trigger and exposure means committing to that life. This may mean following through on your plan to propose to your girlfriend, letting yourself enjoy a gay fantasy while having sex with your boyfriend, letting yourself really be moved by a homosexually-themed film, and so forth. In other words, be yourself in the moment and really commit to that self even when it seems disingenuous. Long Term Management – The Bigger Picture It may feel like this, but this is irrational and that’s what makes it comedy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyxqlA4rqaU OCD is a chronic disorder. No matter what level of mastery you develop, obsessions are going to show up sometimes and your instinct will be to engage in compulsions on some level. What this means is remembering all along that the bigger picture is tolerance of uncertainty and acceptance of the presence of unwanted thoughts. It is not the eradication of unwanted thoughts. HOCD sufferers often become disheartened when, after effectively crushing the obsession with CBT/ERP, somewhere along the line finding themselves taking the bait again. This is most often triggered by a fear that the essentially free and fulfilling life you’ve earned back from your OCD with treatment is really just a lie, a perpetuated act of denial. So it’s important to approach the fear of denial, whether it is currently at the forefront of an active HOCD obsession or the product of a brief lapse after getting better, with the same tools. Don’t buy in to OCD’s distorted logic that “because it came back, it must be the truth.” Kill two birds with one stone by immediately going back to the mindfulness and CBT tools that worked last time. By immediately returning to ERP and mindfulness tools, you not only put the OCD in its place, but you also get exposure to what may feel like an act of denial (Here I go again, pretending this is OCD). If you’re new to OCD treatment, get help in whatever way you can access CBT. If you are actively in treatment, use it to confront your fear of denial head on. If you have had treatment in the past, don’t be afraid to check in with your OCD therapist to get back on track. Booster sessions are a normal and healthy part of CBT for OCD. Consider this – we may define denial as running from the truth. If this is the case, then it is far worse to be in denial of your OCD (and not committing seriously to treating it with CBT) than it is to be in denial of whatever your OCD is talking about. While the consequences of your fears coming true are quite unknowable, to deny yourself OCD treatment has clear and predictable consequences. Jon Hershfield, MFT is a psychotherapist in private practice licensed in Maryland and California, specializing in the treatment of OCD. Follow him on Twitter and Facebook. Click here for HOCD: Part 3 Click here for HOCD: Part 2 Click here for HOCD: Part 1 By Jon Hershfield|March 22nd, 2015|Compulsions, HOCD, Mindfulness, Obsessions, OCD Information|214 Comments Share This Story, Choose Your Platform! Related Posts Permalink Gallery How to Respond to Unwanted Thoughts Permalink Gallery Relationship-themed OCD (ROCD) Permalink Gallery POCD Part Three: The Groin and Other Junk Permalink Gallery POCD Part II: Treating Pedophile-Themed OCD Permalink Gallery POCD Part I: What Is Pedophile-Themed Obsessive Compulsive Disorder? 214 Comments Jeff December 1, 2013 at 6:43 am - Reply This a great article. Everything you say makes perfect sense and it seems that people suffering from this and any form of OCD must have the courage to accept this total uncertainty. I won’t get into my particular case because I’m sure you heard it all before, but my questions has to do with the subject of getting treatment. The fact that HOCD doesn’t seem like a widely known form of OCD makes me incredibly anxious and I am terrified of actually getting misdiagnosed by a “specialist.” How do can ensure that you are being treated by someone who will properly recognize HOCD? I am very nervous about potentially meeting a professional and having them tell me that HOCD doesn’t exist for something along those lines. Jonathan Hershfield December 1, 2013 at 5:01 pm - Reply Glad you enjoyed the article, Jeff. It is unfortunately a scary venture seeking out a trained professional who can treat OCD, especially HOCD. The short criteria is this: They must primarily treat OCD and they must exclusively treat it with CBT (and within that they must emphasize ERP). The chances of them completely misdiagnosing your symptoms if these two criteria are met is low. There is a good list of providers and some good tips on the types of questions to ask them at http://www.ocfoundation.org/treatment_providers.aspx. Not everyone uses the term HOCD, so that doesn’t mean they can’t treat it. When speaking to a new therapist, I would ask them what their experience is in treating sexual orientation obsessions. Jo-Ann January 5, 2014 at 4:35 am - Reply Another fantastic article – thanks Jon! I love how you continue to evolve the recommendations regarding therapy. For example – this article discusses long term management and realistic expectations for such. Of course, I love the humour that you use as well. Those of us with OCD know that humour is a powerful weapon, and when we are in the thick of OCD or an attack/trigger – humour is often the first to go! Jonathan Hershfield January 9, 2014 at 6:27 am - Reply Thanks for the kind words! Glad you liked the article! Melvin January 10, 2014 at 7:15 am - Reply So If I look at Gay porn for 5 minutes and don’t get a erection the look at straight porn for 5 minutes and do achive a erection its fake? Jonathan Hershfield January 10, 2014 at 8:54 pm - Reply I don’t understand this question. It sounds like you are engaging in some kind of checking/testing compulsion. Rachael January 14, 2014 at 2:38 pm - Reply I am worried I could be suffering from this , but I just don’t know how to be sure. It only started about a week ago and I have been in a meaningful reletionship for two and half years. I’m scared I will lose my boyfriend due to this obsession. I’ve been having panic attacks for days. What should I do? In addition , do you have any suggestions of specialists in the Philadelphia area? Jonathan Hershfield January 18, 2014 at 7:43 pm - Reply Jonathan Grayson is in Philadelphia and is a pioneer in treating obsessions like these. Can’t do much better than that! kevin February 2, 2014 at 10:56 pm - Reply Hey Jonathan, ive been reading your blog from france, where you can read on many forums that there are a lot of young people/adult who suffer from HOCD. The scary thing here is that this OCD is not really known and trust me a LOT of those people were misdiagnosticed and went through suicide attempt/death. Unfortuantely most of them can read or write english to seek help abroad, especially here in the US where the disease is accepted as “real”. Im going through the HOCD since september, but it took me three months to realize it. I was in the first place certain i was turning gay or bi, slowly isolating myself, being scared of my long time friends and scare about being gay, that my whole life was a lie that i was a girl inside…i had a complete meltdown and went to my mum to explain her how i felt (i had been through a sentimental breakup, the death of my grandma, a new place where i moved in but where i feel so bad and new shitty job who took me away from my dream) : “mum, i think im gay, well also im still in love with this girl who dragged me in deep depression. ” She was like : ok son, why not, but have you been really attracted by a boy? do you have feelings for him? my answer was no. never. And then and only then i discovered the HOCD, going through few US forums and i read all the symptoms i had been through. I will engage in a therapy soon and try to cure my depression/suicidal thoughts. Im ready to accept that i might be turning gay or bi, although when i feel in a good mood and when my brain is running fine, there are some moments when i feel so ridiculous about all this OCD and 100 straight. I have two questions for you if you dont mind : 1; A LOT of psy/therapist here in Europe have very freudian analysis of sexuality, many people here ive been told by their therapist that basically everyone is bisexual and that you cant be 100 straight or gay. What’s your opinion with the Freud theory? 2/ About bisexuality, for which i am as afraid as gayness, do you think the HOCD reveals this 1% part of feminity/gayness everyone could have? Thanks again for your blog, i wish more people could read it, it would save some lifes.. Jonathan Hershfield February 6, 2014 at 8:02 pm - Reply >>>>Hey Jonathan, ive been reading your blog from france, where you can read on many forums that there are a lot of young people/adult who suffer from HOCD. The scary thing here is that this OCD is not really known and trust me a LOT of those people were misdiagnosticed and went through suicide attempt/death. —I have no explanation for why there is such a deficit in people who treat OCD overall, and specifically sexual obsessions, which research shows clearly affects about 11% of the OCD population (and my guess is more when you consider how many people never view it as OCD). >>>>Unfortuantely most of them can read or write english to seek help abroad, especially here in the US where the disease is accepted as “real”. Im going through the HOCD since september, but it took me three months to realize it. I was in the first place certain i was turning gay or bi, slowly isolating myself, being scared of my long time friends and scare about being gay, that my whole life was a lie that i was a girl inside…i had a complete meltdown and went to my mum to explain her how i felt (i had been through a sentimental breakup, the death of my grandma, a new place where i moved in but where i feel so bad and new shitty job who took me away from my dream) : “mum, i think im gay, well also im still in love with this girl who dragged me in deep depression. ” She was like : ok son, why not, but have you been really attracted by a boy? do you have feelings for him? my answer was no. never. And then and only then i discovered the HOCD, going through few US forums and i read all the symptoms i had been through. I will engage in a therapy soon and try to cure my depression/suicidal thoughts. Im ready to accept that i might be turning gay or bi, although when i feel in a good mood and when my brain is running fine, there are some moments when i feel so ridiculous about all this OCD and 100 straight. I have two questions for you if you dont mind : 1; A LOT of psy/therapist here in Europe have very freudian analysis of sexuality, many people here ive been told by their therapist that basically everyone is bisexual and that you cant be 100 straight or gay. What’s your opinion with the Freud theory? —-The idea of people being a sexual orientation spectrum comes from Alfred Kinsey, not Freud. I am not an expert in human sexuality, so my opinion is only my opinion. To be honest, my opinion is I don’t know — except that being 100% anything sounds unlikely. I am human, but then that means I am about 60% water. So looking for absolutes in how we define things seems like a waste of time. I think it’s normal for people who identify with one label (i.e. “I am straight”) to also have and even enjoy thoughts and feelings more commonly associated with other labels (i.e. “I am gay” or bisexual etc). Whether this somehow makes them “less straight” or somewhere on a spectrum, I really have no idea, nor do I think it matters. >>>>2/ About bisexuality, for which i am as afraid as gayness, do you think the HOCD reveals this 1% part of feminity/gayness everyone could have? —Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) is a disorder in which unwanted intrusive thoughts (obsessions like “what if I am not who I want to be?”) are responded to with behaviors aimed at getting certainty (compulsions like hyper-analysis of sexual attraction, avoidance of triggers, etc). It is called a disorder because it takes up a lot of time and causes impairment in functioning. I don’t think OCD (including HOCD) has anything particularly interesting to reveal about human sexuality. Andrew February 5, 2014 at 6:26 pm - Reply John, God knows I’ve spent hours upon hours reading about HOCD…kind of comes with the territory, right? This was by far one of the most clearly written and simultaneously hilarious series I’ve read on HOCD. Personally, I’ve derived great benefit from mindfulness, but I have yet to find a therapist who believes I actually have HOCD instead of some other issue. Their reasoning is that I don’t present any other types of OCD symptoms outside of “HOCD”. The APRN I see, on the other hand, thinks I’m a textbook case. Do you know of anybody around the Hartford/Springfield area that would be able to help me out? My complications with the HOCD also had a lot to do with a past history of sexual abuse when I was a child. It seems to me that that only complicates things unnecessarily. After all, OCD is OCD, right? Still, I’d immensely appreciate any advice you could offer. Thank you! Jonathan Hershfield February 7, 2014 at 6:23 am - Reply >>>>John, God knows I’ve spent hours upon hours reading about HOCD…kind of comes with the territory, right? This was by far one of the most clearly written and simultaneously hilarious series I’ve read on HOCD. —Thank you. Now stop reading it. >>>Personally, I’ve derived great benefit from mindfulness, but I have yet to find a therapist who believes I actually have HOCD instead of some other issue. Their reasoning is that I don’t present any other types of OCD symptoms outside of “HOCD”. The APRN I see, on the other hand, thinks I’m a textbook case. Do you know of anybody around the Hartford/Springfield area that would be able to help me out? —Not off the top of my head but check http://www.ocfoundation.org/findproviders.aspx. The idea that you need something other than an obsession, compulsions, and impairment is silly. >>>My complications with the HOCD also had a lot to do with a past history of sexual abuse when I was a child. It seems to me that that only complicates things unnecessarily. After all, OCD is OCD, right? Still, I’d immensely appreciate any advice you could offer. Thank you! —Yes, abuse complicates life, but OCD is OCD. Martin February 9, 2014 at 2:57 am - Reply Dear John, thank you for your articles. I’ve never been diagnosed with OCD, but I am fairly certain that I have it (HOCD mainly, had Self-HarmOCD, and SchizOCD (fear of halluzinating things and turning into a maniac) on top of it). The problem is I live in Europe and OCD treatment is very hard to get at here. I had two therapists already: one wanting to search around in my dreams for God knows what and one was some homeopathic ghosthealer-nutbag (at least in my impression) filling me with worthless plant potions and an unrelenting tendency to tell me I was not gay because of my body language and that I had no female soul in my body (nutbag, you see). I was able to muddle myself out of this mess for 1 and half years (where I was 95% symptom free and living the high life), then last May I was crushed with professional stress and fell back into HOCD, this time more mindbending than ever. It felt like I had made a deal with the devil who would grant me one and half years of “quality life” only to drag me to gay hell thereafter, where I would drown in mindcrushing fear forever. Before this last turning point I did not even know about HOCD, although I probably suffered from it for about 4 years before that and learning about it worsened things (self-devised ERP gone wrong). In the last months I managed to combat fear again (with my proven recipe of exercise and not giving a fuck) but then it felt like the OCD was trying to move to a new target (SchizOCD again and after that the topic that I am in love with my dad) and it feels like it has me by the balls now (funny terminology, right =P). Everytime I get to grips with one topic another flames up or even adds to what is already there. Lately, it seems I have sort of lost my identity. I feel empty most of the time or simply not like me and that my life runs on auto-pilot – not crashing but certainly not enjoying the ride.. Unfortunately my OCD tells me I can’t listen to the music I used to like anymore (heavy metal) firstly, because if I ever turned out gay then listening to that music would make me look like an overcompensating imposter; secondly, I have this fear of the songs I like getting “tainted” when my OCD links them with OCD thoughts and essentially turns them into triggers (especially songs about love) and lastly that I am simply not entitled to this music anymore because I cannot figure which things I TRUELY like, after all it might just be a part of my unconciously crafted “straight-disguise”. It seems like a minor detail but I have the feeling the OCD is taking everything that once made me me, everything that I held dear about myself, puts it into the doubt/fear-meatgrinder and turns it against me, destabilizing my whole self-image and identity in the process (not only the sexual identity, EVERYTHING). On top of that comes the fear that I moved too far out this time. I am plagued by this fear that all these thoughts and the memery of these thought will never wash off, that they will always be there in the back of my mind ready to wait for the next outbreak to remind me of my “mental crimes”, just like it happened this time. Overall my outlook on life turned very gloomy. The situations presents itself to me as follows: Either I am not the person that I think/love/want to be or I have OCD, a livelong disorder that will turn me into a mental wreck everytime I get put under stress. Neither option seems acceptable to me. Currently I am just living from one clear day (where al of this seems ridiculous to me) to the next, trying to survive the fear-filled weeks in between. I did not intend to rant about that stuff, sorry. My real intent was to ask you whether you know an OCD therapist who might do Skype counceling. I browsed all therapists in my region, but most of them only offer some sort of personality coaching and dealing with illness and only a few even list OCD among their therapy subjects (adressing it with talk therapy mostly it seems). I read some self-help books about the topic but I understand that I need guidance for my recovery or otherwise I will possibly do more harm than good. I too read your book about mindfullness, but I still haven’t figured out how to implement it effectively or maybe I am just impatient. Jonathan Hershfield February 11, 2014 at 9:06 pm - Reply >>>>Dear John, thank you for your articles. I’ve never been diagnosed with OCD, but I am fairly certain that I have it (HOCD mainly, had Self-HarmOCD, and SchizOCD (fear of halluzinating things and turning into a maniac) on top of it). The problem is I live in Europe and OCD treatment is very hard to get at here. I had two therapists already: one wanting to search around in my dreams for God knows what and one was some homeopathic ghosthealer-nutbag (at least in my impression) filling me with worthless plant potions and an unrelenting tendency to tell me I was not gay because of my body language and that I had no female soul in my body (nutbag, you see). —Sorry to hear you received poor treatment, but your description of it is hilarious. >>>>I was able to muddle myself out of this mess for 1 and half years (where I was 95% symptom free and living the high life), then last May I was crushed with professional stress and fell back into HOCD, this time more mindbending than ever. It felt like I had made a deal with the devil who would grant me one and half years of “quality life” only to drag me to gay hell thereafter, where I would drown in mindcrushing fear forever. Before this last turning point I did not even know about HOCD, although I probably suffered from it for about 4 years before that and learning about it worsened things (self-devised ERP gone wrong). In the last months I managed to combat fear again (with my proven recipe of exercise and not giving a fuck) but then it felt like the OCD was trying to move to a new target (SchizOCD again and after that the topic that I am in love with my dad) and it feels like it has me by the balls now (funny terminology, right =P). Everytime I get to grips with one topic another flames up or even adds to what is already there. Lately, it seems I have sort of lost my identity. I feel empty most of the time or simply not like me and that my life runs on auto-pilot – not crashing but certainly not enjoying the ride.. Unfortunately my OCD tells me I can’t listen to the music I used to like anymore (heavy metal) firstly, because if I ever turned out gay then listening to that music would make me look like an overcompensating imposter; —Yeah, what’s straighter than men with long hair and tight leather pants screaming poems about how painful life is? >>>>secondly, I have this fear of the songs I like getting “tainted” when my OCD links them with OCD thoughts and essentially turns them into triggers (especially songs about love) —This isa common concern. The trick is to sell out the OCD whenever you can. The OCD says not to contaminate a song, then go out of your way to contaminate it. Take your favorite song and start calling it “the gay song I will always think about gay stuff with.” It will bother you at first, but then you will forget to do it eventually and you will also forget to be worried about it. If you are protective of things, it makes them bigger OCD targets. >>>and lastly that I am simply not entitled to this music anymore because I cannot figure which things I TRUELY like, after all it might just be a part of my unconciously crafted “straight-disguise”. It seems like a minor detail but I have the feeling the OCD is taking everything that once made me me, everything that I held dear about myself, puts it into the doubt/fear-meatgrinder and turns it against me, destabilizing my whole self-image and identity in the process (not only the sexual identity, EVERYTHING). —Again this comes down mostly to you compulsively trying to control your identity instead of accepting that you do not have control. >>>On top of that comes the fear that I moved too far out this time. I am plagued by this fear that all these thoughts and the memery of these thought will never wash off, that they will always be there in the back of my mind ready to wait for the next outbreak to remind me of my “mental crimes”, just like it happened this time. —This appraisal of your experience as “mental crimes” that need to be “washed off” is a big part of your untreated OCD, something you would want to work on with a CBT specialist. >>>Overall my outlook on life turned very gloomy. The situations presents itself to me as follows: Either I am not the person that I think/love/want to be or I have OCD, a livelong disorder that will turn me into a mental wreck everytime I get put under stress. Neither option seems acceptable to me. Currently I am just living from one clear day (where al of this seems ridiculous to me) to the next, trying to survive the fear-filled weeks in between. —You sound depressed, but at least you haven’t lost your sense of humor. I think your main issue has to do with faulty appraisals of your situation. You describe OCD as being able to wreck you every time you are under stress, but your OCD is largely untreated. You also express concern about not being who you want to be, suggesting you believe there is some way to be certain that you are such a thing. There isn’t. >>>I did not intend to rant about that stuff, sorry. My real intent was to ask you whether you know an OCD therapist who might do Skype counceling. I browsed all therapists in my region, but most of them only offer some sort of personality coaching and dealing with illness and only a few even list OCD among their therapy subjects (adressing it with talk therapy mostly it seems). I read some self-help books about the topic but I understand that I need guidance for my recovery or otherwise I will possibly do more harm than good. I too read your book about mindfullness, but I still haven’t figured out how to implement it effectively or maybe I am just impatient. —I do. You can email me to discuss. I can also suggest some other treatment resources. Alisha February 26, 2014 at 5:45 pm - Reply Hello! I am posting here because I need some help. Over the last three years I have been struggling with obsessive thoughts and compulsions, although I didn’t understand what it was until very recently. I have never been formally diagnosed with OCD, but from all that I have read I would be very surprised if this was not the case. My obsessions are varied. I have experienced irrational fear of my husband not being my son’s father, despite the fact that it was not a possibility. I struggled with that exclusively from just before the birth of my son in Nov. 2010 until just before his birthday in 2013. It was triggered by a terrible dream with that theme. Eventually I explained to my husband what was going on in my head, he was a good sport and the resulting paternity test laid my fears to rest and confirmed what my logical mind already knew, my husband is my son’s father. Unfortunately, after that particular fear was silenced, I could feel my mind casting around for a new worry. Needless to say, I found something new to worry about. My obsessions started to focus themselves around my son. I struggled with fear of touching him inappropriately. These fears eventually faded, without much effort on my part although I’m beginning to believe the repeated exposure to his nakedness during diaper changes and bath time played a big role. From there, I began to worry that he had autism despite the fact that he had virtually no symptoms and had hit every milestone expected for a child his age. A consultation with his pediatrician calmed my anxiety. Afterwards, I began having intrusive thoughts that were geared toward physically harming my son with a knife. It worried me so much that I threw away certain knives that had featured in these thoughts and developed what I now recognize as a compulsion to put all knives in the sink on the left side after use. This fear too eventually subsided, although I’m not sure why. But of course, I have found something new to fear which is what has brought me here. The other day I was out with my husband and I saw a girl I know to be a lesbian. She was working in a shop we visited and came up to greet us. I thought to myself “wow, she is pretty” and thats all it took to set the train in motion. Ever since I have been so afraid of “becoming” gay or “realizing” some hidden truth about my sexuality that would result in the loss of my marriage and with it my family. I feel like that is the central point that I keep coming back to. The thoughts are different, but each causes me to fear loss of my two best guys. If my son had a different father, I would lose my family. If I touched my son inappropriately I would lose both my son and husband as well as harm my son. If I harmed him physically, the same. The autism fear is the only one that doesn’t seem to fit the mold there. Why is it that some of these thoughts seem to go away more easily thab others, and what should I do to help myself. I cannot afford to see a psychologist, so this is my best shot at some answers. Any help you could provide me would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. Jonathan Hershfield March 3, 2014 at 5:33 am - Reply >>>>Hello! I am posting here because I need some help. Over the last three years I have been struggling with obsessive thoughts and compulsions, although I didn’t understand what it was until very recently. I have never been formally diagnosed with OCD, but from all that I have read I would be very surprised if this was not the case. My obsessions are varied. I have experienced irrational fear of my husband not being my son’s father, despite the fact that it was not a possibility. I struggled with that exclusively from just before the birth of my son in Nov. 2010 until just before his birthday in 2013. It was triggered by a terrible dream with that theme. Eventually I explained to my husband what was going on in my head, he was a good sport and the resulting paternity test laid my fears to rest and confirmed what my logical mind already knew, my husband is my son’s father. —Good sport indeed if he was willing to get a paternity test to accommodate your obsession! >>>Unfortunately, after that particular fear was silenced, I could feel my mind casting around for a new worry. Needless to say, I found something new to worry about. My obsessions started to focus themselves around my son. I struggled with fear of touching him inappropriately. These fears eventually faded, without much effort on my part although I’m beginning to believe the repeated exposure to his nakedness during diaper changes and bath time played a big role. —Fear of “inappropriateness” around one’s children is very common in OCD. I think your insight that exposure to him helped the obsession fade is right. It can be so debilitating for parents with this obsession who begin to avoid their children as a result. >>>From there, I began to worry that he had autism despite the fact that he had virtually no symptoms and had hit every milestone expected for a child his age. A consultation with his pediatrician calmed my anxiety. —This too is not an unusual obsession. As you already know, you have a history of seeking unnecessary tests from authority figures (in this case doctors) believing that reassurance is the key to ending an obsession. Problem is, it simply sets the stage for the next obsession and just makes the content shift around. >>>Afterwards, I began having intrusive thoughts that were geared toward physically harming my son with a knife. It worried me so much that I threw away certain knives that had featured in these thoughts and developed what I now recognize as a compulsion to put all knives in the sink on the left side after use. This fear too eventually subsided, although I’m not sure why. —Also a very common obsession for OCD parents. >>>But of course, I have found something new to fear which is what has brought me here. The other day I was out with my husband and I saw a girl I know to be a lesbian. She was working in a shop we visited and came up to greet us. I thought to myself “wow, she is pretty” and thats all it took to set the train in motion. —It is a common distorted belief that recognizing attractiveness in the same sex somehow equates to sexual orientation despite there being no evidence to support this. At the start, your insight into the history and pattern of your OCD should clue you in to what’s happening. >>>Ever since I have been so afraid of “becoming” gay or “realizing” some hidden truth about my sexuality that would result in the loss of my marriage and with it my family. I feel like that is the central point that I keep coming back to. The thoughts are different, but each causes me to fear loss of my two best guys. If my son had a different father, I would lose my family. If I touched my son inappropriately I would lose both my son and husband as well as harm my son. If I harmed him physically, the same. The autism fear is the only one that doesn’t seem to fit the mold there. Why is it that some of these thoughts seem to go away more easily thab others, and what should I do to help myself. I cannot afford to see a psychologist, so this is my best shot at some answers. Any help you could provide me would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. —Why some obsessions leave quicker than others usually has to do with whether or not you continue to engage in compulsions, but there is also some randomness to it. It’s the mind after all! You have a long history of untreated OCD. The treatment for OCD that works is cognitive behavioral therapy. If you do not have access or cannot afford a therapist who does CBT for OCD, then the next best thing would be to use some kind of self-cbt workbook. I see from your follow-up comment that you got The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD, which I think should resonate with you. You would probably also benefit from a lot of the material in Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by Jonathan Grayson. I think you need to keep the focus on the similarities, not the differences in the obsessions, and then identify ways you can do exposure to this larger fear of losing the ones you love. Alisha February 26, 2014 at 5:51 pm - Reply Also, I should mention that I just bought your book this morning. The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD. I should get it in a couple of days. I am hoping it will be very helpful. lre478 March 5, 2014 at 7:21 pm - Reply Hi Jon, Just wanted to congratulate you on the amazing job you do, as you give hope to a lot of people who would struggle to find some otherwise. I believe/hope I am very much on the way to recovery from HOCD. Thanks to a therapist who didn’t use CBT at all (although he recognises it and respects it as a form of treatment). I’m basically at the stage where I still get the compulsions and think about my sexuality far too much but for some reason this just doesn’t seem to matter as much as it used to. I’m still getting all the same thought processes, but I rarely feel horrible and crippled by anxiety like I used to, whilst even getting random periods of a couple of days where I feel completely fine. My therapist and I are now looking for a therapist who knows about HOCD here in the UK (which, believe it or not, is very difficult) who could help get me over the final hurdles and go back to enjoying my love life. Just thought it might help people who are in the middle of HOCD to know that there definitely is a way out! I almost feel excited to have been part of discovering and understanding an illness which seems to be fairly new (when I first had issues with it, two years ago, there were like two articles about it on the internet, at most, now they’ve at least multiplied tenfold) and would one day (if I make a full recovery) love to become an OCD therapist and help people win their battles. So yeah… Thanks Jon Jonathan Hershfield March 7, 2014 at 6:34 pm - Reply Thanks for the positive feedback! Glad things appear to be pointing in a healthier direction for you. You might check out http://www.ocduk.org to see if they can direct you to resources in the UK. Another option might be working online with someone in the US. People like you probably make the best therapists, go for it! Tom March 7, 2014 at 4:00 pm - Reply Hi Jonathan, I have recently relapsed with hocd after feeling great for over a year. I just got your mindfulness workbook and have been going through and doing exercises. I have my moments, but can see an improvement in myself. Thanks for the great book. Can you recommend any specialist in northern New Jersey? Jonathan Hershfield March 7, 2014 at 8:20 pm - Reply Thanks for the positive feedback, happy the book is resonating with you! Allen Weg in East Brunswick – http://www.stressandanxiety.com/ Itisawayoflife March 11, 2014 at 2:39 pm - Reply Hello, I have a quick question about testing. I personally fell into the trap of testing and checked gay porn a lot. I myself have spent 2 hours watching gay porn in one sitting, the problem is I seem to get a slight reaction to the gay porn. Its nothing like I get to straight or lesbian porn but its something. My penis will increase in save and this worries me. I have still never had an erection without forcing it. I just wanted to know if this a normal thing for a person with HOCD to receive slight arousal from gay porn and mental images. Jonathan Hershfield March 16, 2014 at 4:38 am - Reply >>>>Hello, I have a quick question about testing. I personally fell into the trap of testing and checked gay porn a lot. I myself have spent 2 hours watching gay porn in one sitting, the problem is I seem to get a slight reaction to the gay porn. —Good. Means you aren’t dead. >>>Its nothing like I get to straight or lesbian porn but its something. My penis will increase in save and this worries me. I have still never had an erection without forcing it. I just wanted to know if this a normal thing for a person with HOCD to receive slight arousal from gay porn and mental images. —-I can tell you two things. First, it is an assumption, not a fact, that anything that happens between your legs is an indicator of your identity or orientation (whether you’re watching straight porn, gay porn, or c-span). Second, you are asking for reassurance in an attempt to get certainty that you are not gay. So long as you do that, the OCD will always find a way back in. Ryan March 14, 2014 at 5:07 pm - Reply Hi Jon, Wanted to thank you a lot for writing these blogs, helped me a lot when I first found out about ocd. I’ve had 5 sessions of cbt after which my therapist and I concluded my ocd was too severe to be treated yet. I thought I was progressing and then my girlfriend told me about Elton John’s coming out story and I fell right back to square one. I was wondering if there’s anything I can do in the meantime to help the obsessions? She suggested taking antidepressants but I don’t want to kill my sex drive any further with my girlfriend. I feel in a much darker pace having had to stop the cbt, and I feel even more numb around women. Jonathan Hershfield March 16, 2014 at 4:56 am - Reply Hi Ryan, I don’t understand what you mean when you say your ocd was “too severe to be treated yet.” Since severity would only be reduced by treatment, when is that supposed to happen? You are asking what to do about your obsession other than treat it, but I’m not sure how to answer that. If you don’t have access to treatment, the only other thing would be to do self-CBT with a workbook. As for meds, if your ocd is indeed severe, it may be necessary to utilize medication as a tool in helping you get the strength to treat the ocd. That’s something you would have to sort out with a psychiatrist. Ryan March 16, 2014 at 4:11 pm - Reply Hi Jon Sorry I didn’t put that quite right. I wasn’t ready for CBT, in that I was struggling greatly with only imaginal exposure and my therapist felt I would just keep struggling more and more. I think one of the problems was that I was trying to get attracted to women following the exposure, and while it worked, it increased my expectations and I wasn’t ready for the drop. My depression has definitely increased, and I’m getting the groinal responses without the anxiety around men. After I’ve had a bit of time on SSRIs would it be possible to do some skyping sessions with you? Thanks Jonathan Hershfield March 16, 2014 at 4:52 pm - Reply Yeah, trying to get attracted to something has a pretty predictable effect when you consider what happens when you try to NOT have a response to something. When depression is a major factor, it often trumps your ability to effectively engage in ERP. CBT/ERP is hard work and you need to be motivated and believe the effort is worth it because you’re worth it — both things that get zapped by depression. Medication is sometimes a necessary element in these cases if for no other reason than to get the depression out of the damn way! Re skype sessions, that depends somewhat on your location. Email me directly at [email protected] for more info. james March 21, 2014 at 10:14 pm - Reply Here’s a quick question that has been bugging me. I have been trying to implement a self help plan and I can’t help feeling like I’m doing it wrong. I’m following work books, but when I’m doing erp I feel like, although I am feeling anxiety and trying not to do compulsions, that there is a fear that maybe I don’t have ocd and aren’t gay and that the exposures may brainwash me to actually be gay. Of course that sounds like ocd, but there is no guiding light here when I’m sitting down reading coming out stories and I just feel anxious afterwards. Jonathan Hershfield March 25, 2014 at 6:42 pm - Reply I would include in your exposures the idea that you may not have OCD and may have to cope with finding this out too late. When I work with people who compulsively wash their hands until they bleed, they often think ERP is brainwashing them into being irresponsibly lazy. Ryan March 22, 2014 at 1:26 am - Reply Hi Jon, since I last posted I’ve had a very good week, saying to myself “I don’t need to know the answer to that.” I was getting aroused thinking about being with my girlfriend after that. But just today my friend hugged me in an aggressive way. I felt like I enjoyed it physically but with no groinal response. Is that what you meant by the desire to be physically close to a friend? I’ve had these thoughts to different extremes for almost 3 years now and I feel like it’s a coming out process. The anxiety and depression have mostly gone, which reinforces that belief more. Jonathan Hershfield March 25, 2014 at 6:44 pm - Reply The question begs, do you need to know my answer? Personally, I love a good aggressive hug. It generally wouldn’t occur to me that this could mean something, but if it did occur to me, I would say “OK then” and go about my business. Olivia March 24, 2014 at 12:43 pm - Reply Hi Jon, First, I’d just like to say your work is incredibly insightful. I’ve dealt/dealing with nearly every form of OCD. It feels like an absolute curse. Germ/filth obsessions, orderliness/moving items in my house over and over again making sure they are in the “right” spot, horrifying thoughts of hurting my family/pets, obsessing over a variety of illnesses and convincing myself that I’m dying of something and of course the HOCD. When my mind moves on from one the next one comes full force. I’m only 22 and so I wonder if I’ll ever be able to lead a normal life. Regarding HOCD..when you fall into a trap of testing yourself and look at sexual images, can the HOCD thoughts provoke arousal? This will happen to me initially and then I look again later and get confused because I realize I don’t desire who or whats going on in the image. Jonathan Hershfield April 2, 2014 at 3:46 am - Reply You posted a later comment that you found the answer to your question, but I wanted to reply anyway. People often comment that treating OCD is like playing whack-a-mole, the carnival game in which you hit something only to have something else pop up right after. The reason this analogy is flawed is because if you practice whack-a-mole, you actually get better at it. So even though your OCD may shift in it content, if you learn to get there before the OCD, do the exposure, confront your discomfort with uncertainty, you actually can master this thing. Doesn’t matter if the contaminant is on your hands or in your head. Olivia March 27, 2014 at 9:58 am - Reply Hi again Jon, I actually discovered the answer to the question I posted on Mar. 24th. I apologize for the inconvenience. Thanks James March 30, 2014 at 6:15 am - Reply I promise I’ll stop posting here once I’ve got this all in line and in the mean time I’ll continue to keep it short. So if one of my distorted thought processes is that I feel I should have the physical reactions of a teenager every time I see an attractive girl and I want to write a script to squash this distortion, how would I go about that? Would I write about how every other guy has those reactions and I’m the only one who doesn’t? That would cause significant anxiety, but I’m not 100% what angle to approach that one with. Jonathan Hershfield April 2, 2014 at 4:33 am - Reply >>>I promise I’ll stop posting here once I’ve got this all in line and in the mean time I’ll continue to keep it short. —“All in line” suggests you are seeking certainty. >>>So if one of my distorted thought processes is that I feel I should have the physical reactions of a teenager every time I see an attractive girl and I want to write a script to squash this distortion, how would I go about that? Would I write about how every other guy has those reactions and I’m the only one who doesn’t? That would cause significant anxiety, but I’m not 100% what angle to approach that one with. —I would write this sort of script from an angle of uncertainty, focusing on the idea that you NOT responding a certain way COULD mean something and if it DOES, it might pan out a certain way you’ll have to deal with. TJ March 31, 2014 at 12:33 am - Reply Hey, i have had HOCD of and on for 4 years now im now 17 years old and have obssesive thoughts compulsions and rituals and eats up most of my day. Im worried that im acutally gay and not hocd have any suggestions i already have therapist, but not specialized in OCD and said she has never heard of this can u help? Jonathan Hershfield April 2, 2014 at 4:35 am - Reply Not sure what to add other than you have to find a therapist who is competent in treating ocd. To not have heard of sexual orientation obsessions suggests they are not trained in any way to treat OCD. There is a decent list of treatment providers at http://www.ocfoundation.org. Cf April 1, 2014 at 2:04 am - Reply Hi Jon, thanks for all of your blogs (and your book!) It’s helpful to hear from someone who really knows how this feels. My question- I have had ocd my entire life, no question about it, and have all of the symptoms of this theme as well. Lately I have been really struggling with sexual orientation obsessions and have managed to say ok whatever to most of them, but yesterday I felt what seemed like true longing for one of my good friend and it didn’t evoke fear in me at all, in fact it felt like I enjoyed the feeling. I don’t know if I have gotten good at ignoring those things but I did no response to it, just tried to keep a neutral attitude. The fact that I didn’t feel anxiety is scaring me now, even moreso because my scariest obsessions (the ones that I still avoid) have involved this particular friend. I don’t recall ever having a conscious attraction to her but I have a dreaded feeling that one of these days I am going to realize that I have been attracted to her all along and I’ve just been repressing it. I have been working hard on mindfulness meditation but this particular fear seems to be completely stuck…either that or it’s not a fear and all of my other thoughts were a distraction to really dealing with this true attraction. It’s making me feel completely powerless because I just can’t feel better no matter what things I try. I have faced the fear/emotional block head on but I still really don’t understand how to move past it. Any ideas for ERP or should I just learn to live with this and always feel (know?) like I am secretly in love with my best friend? It just feels so so real. Jonathan Hershfield April 2, 2014 at 4:42 am - Reply The fear of not having enough fear is sometimes referred to as a backdoor spike. The issue here, as in all OCD, has to do with an intolerance of uncertainty. Accepting that you could be in love with your friend, does not mean you ARE in love with your friend. It means that you are allowing the thought of being in love with your friend to float by without compulsively trying to eliminate it. Instead of focusing on how to process the thought and guarantee that you are straight, the focus needs to be on allowing the thought to be a thought and accepting that if it coincides with a reality, you will figure out a way to cope with that reality. In the meantime, responding to the thought compulsively only ensures that it remains intrusive. You can practice this with imaginal exposure script probably, something focusing on the idea that you are secretly in love with this person and your failure to compulse it away has some consequences. In short, a lot of “ok, maybe…” Dave April 7, 2014 at 11:17 pm - Reply I have read many comments by gays and non gays on the internet who say that if you get aroused by guys then you are gay. No arousal for girls=gay. I have been getting consistent groinals or arousals for guys since age 25. Never before. I read where one guy said he was straight and never had a gay thought until age 27 and then he started noticing men and getting aroused to them and lost all his arousal and attraction for women. He is in his mid thirties now and says he has accepted himself. This parallels my story where I was aroused by women but amn’t so much anymore and am by guys. This makes me depressed as you know. Also there is a belief in the gay community that hocd is a way to keep gays int he closet and is harming them. What if the reason I am so sad and irritable is because I have been told I have ocd instead of accepting my gay self?? Maybe it is damaging me like old fashioned gay reparative thereapy?? I also read a response to a guy who had wondered if he had hocd and a girl replied that you wouldnt have arousals for 4 yrs to men if it was ocd. I have this 7 yrs now. This makes me feel that my situation is hopeless. It’s so confusing. There are people who say the brain/body reacts with arousal to anything sexual whether it is within your orientation or not and there are other experts who say no, that men are only aroused by their real orientation based on scientific studies. There are people with hocd who claim to not be aroused by guys and there are sufferers who claim to be aroused. Are some of them in the closet?? Are they genuine cases or fakers? I can definitely see obsessive traits in my behaviour but yet I feel my fear of being gay is true at the same time. I have read up on ocd and it says that ocd people are not aroused by their thoughts. Well if that’s true then I dont have ocd and am just repressed. Yet when I told my ocd therapist this a few yrs ago he didn’t care if I got aroused and still said it was ocd. Which is it though? I am confused. Was he lying to me? I am scared my orientation either switched or was born gay and was never aware that this side existed in me. Some say you would know by adolescence, others say you may discover gay feelings much later in life and you realise you were gay. My post is not very coherent as I am in a bad way right now, confused and depressed. I was told to agree with the gay intrusive thoughts and welcome the groinals but when my brain tells me I am a (derogatory gay word) and I agree my morale drops off the charts. I was told to not challenge them. But when I do this I get depressed and there seems to be no hope. I know you hate me posting here at this stage and I know you feel that you cant help me anymore than you have so far but when I see guys topless I get arousal feelings down there, and then none when I see girls topless I really lose faith in treating this as ocd. This was not the case until 25 yrs old. I used to feel aroused by girls never guys although I never tried as it never occured to me to evn try. But I fear that the old me is dead and never coming back and I will end up like these gays who have posted their experience. Other hocd’ers seem so much more positive than me and either know their obsession is not true or they seem to be more upbeat and make progress and come through this. I have been for therapy and nothing changes. I feel hopeless, I see no light at the end of the tunnel, and I certainly do not feel like this obsession is false. I have lost faith in therapy and myself. Oh a gay guy came onto me in a straight niteclub last weekend and I felt disgusted and weirded out by it and fled pretty quick. I had no desire to get with him. Yet I fear I will act on these urges one day and I feel like I want to crawl up and die because of that. Also I have read that ocd people do not get aroused by their thoughts yet another says 40% do. What is the difference between a groinal and arousal? I have read your blog more times than I care to remember but I am still confused. Is a semi erection or full erection considered a groinal? Is it a strong tingling or excitement feeling down there? Where does it start to cross the line? I apolgise for my incessant behaviour. Nobody hates me more than me. I have read that anxiety will pass if you sit with it for 20-30mins yet mine does linger all day. I will eventually have to give in and test. Maybe its not an ocd urge? Maybe its gay sexual urges that must be released?? I dunno 🙁 Thank you Jonathan Hershfield April 11, 2014 at 6:43 pm - Reply >>>>I have read many comments by gays and non gays on the internet who say that if you get aroused by guys then you are gay. No arousal for girls=gay. I have been getting consistent groinals or arousals for guys since age 25. Never before. —Well, if a person says it on the internet, it must be true then. I have yet to see a large-scale peer-reviewed scientific study drawing a direct causal relationship between groinal responses and orientation or a case of a person turning gay against their will, but I have also never heard of anyone getting HIV from a doorknob and several of my clients think this is going to happen to them too. The only logical conclusion is to accept uncertainty, including the idea that you could be the first and would have to cope with that if it were true. >>>I read where one guy said he was straight and never had a gay thought until age 27 and then he started noticing men and getting aroused to them and lost all his arousal and attraction for women. He is in his mid thirties now and says he has accepted himself. This parallels my story where I was aroused by women but amn’t so much anymore and am by guys. This makes me depressed as you know. Also there is a belief in the gay community that hocd is a way to keep gays int he closet and is harming them. What if the reason I am so sad and irritable is because I have been told I have ocd instead of accepting my gay self?? Maybe it is damaging me like old fashioned gay reparative thereapy?? —It doesn’t parallel you at all because you don’t accept yourself, so again, maybe, anything’s possible. This guy you read about is presumably out there gaying it up and feeling good about it. Certainly is an interesting story anyway. I do hear that you are depressed and am sure that is incredibly painful. You have a theory that you are depressed because of repressed feelings or something like that. I think you are depressed, at least in part, due to the fact that your refusal to stop compulsive testing behaviors has made it impossible for you to be present in the moment of any of your preferred arousals, making it seem like something you care a lot about has died. That is depressing. It is also treatable if you are willing to take the risk of accepting uncertainty by not doing compulsions. Yes, it may end up meaning you are in fact in some kind of gay denial or gay awakening. Or it may result in you freeing yourself rom your OCD and depression. One thing is for certain, the testing keeps you frozen in this state in perpetuity. None of my contamination clients ever overcome their fear of germs (whether rational or irrational) until they stop trying to prove they are clean. >>>I also read a response to a guy who had wondered if he had hocd and a girl replied that you wouldnt have arousals for 4 yrs to men if it was ocd. I have this 7 yrs now. This makes me feel that my situation is hopeless. —I would argue that your hopelessness stems more from you disregarding the repeated instruction by likely any OCD therapist you have ever read about to stop seeking reassurance about your obsession (on the internet or otherwise). It is, as above, just another form of washing. It is guaranteed to backfire in the end, as are all compulsions. The question is not, why did that girl say 4 years means you’re gay? The question is why is Dave online asking questions about gayness? >>>It’s so confusing. There are people who say the brain/body reacts with arousal to anything sexual whether it is within your orientation or not and there are other experts who say no, that men are only aroused by their real orientation based on scientific studies. There are people with hocd who claim to not be aroused by guys and there are sufferers who claim to be aroused. Are some of them in the closet?? Are they genuine cases or fakers? —Unknowable. >>>I can definitely see obsessive traits in my behaviour but yet I feel my fear of being gay is true at the same time. I have read up on ocd and it says that ocd people are not aroused by their thoughts. —This is an inaccurate oversimplification. >>>Well if that’s true then I dont have ocd and am just repressed. Yet when I told my ocd therapist this a few yrs ago he didn’t care if I got aroused and still said it was ocd. Which is it though? I am confused. Was he lying to me? —The therapist was correct in my opinion. Physical arousal is not a relevant factor to determining what an obsession is. If it were, all of my Harm OCD clients would be serial killers. >>>>I am scared my orientation either switched or was born gay and was never aware that this side existed in me. Some say you would know by adolescence, others say you may discover gay feelings much later in life and you realise you were gay. —I understand this is your obsession. My recommendation would be that you stop doing compulsions and do exposure to your fear that you were either born gay and just realized it or have turned gay. But again, the xposure will only work if you stop engaging in reassurance seeking and testing compulsions. >>>My post is not very coherent as I am in a bad way right now, confused and depressed. I was told to agree with the gay intrusive thoughts and welcome the groinals but when my brain tells me I am a (derogatory gay word) and I agree my morale drops off the charts. I was told to not challenge them. But when I do this I get depressed and there seems to be no hope. —It’s coherent, and I am sorry to hear you are suffering so. Perhaps a more mindful focus would be better suited for your personality. In other words, instead of agreeing with the thoughts and calling yourself names, work more on acknowledging simply that the thoughts are passing by and resisting the urge to argue or problem-solve them. There are several books on mindfulness that might help you understand this concept. >>>I know you hate me posting here at this stage and I know you feel that you cant help me anymore —If you know what I am thinking and feeling, this suggests you may have more magical powers, which I recommend trying to figure out a way to turn into profit. >>>> than you have so far but when I see guys topless I get arousal feelings down there, and then none when I see girls topless I really lose faith in treating this as ocd. This was not the case until 25 yrs old. I used to feel aroused by girls never guys although I never tried as it never occured to me to evn try. But I fear that the old me is dead and never coming back and I will end up like these gays who have posted their experience. —Though I suspect it isn’t, you will only get better if you accept that it could be. Now, having accepted that your fear has the potential to be true, what is it that you will do differently? This again, can only be arrived at once you stop testing and reassurance seeking. This means when you notice arousal to guys, you accept it as it is and don;t follow it with an in-depth analysis of what it COULD be. Same goes for when you become aware of an absence of arousal to girls. More “oh, hey, there’s that” and less “oh no what is that and what does it mean and where can I get a definitive answer?” >>>Other hocd’ers seem so much more positive than me and either know their obsession is not true or they seem to be more upbeat and make progress and come through this. I have been for therapy and nothing changes. I feel hopeless, I see no light at the end of the tunnel, and I certainly do not feel like this obsession is false. I have lost faith in therapy and myself. —You are making some assumptions about others with OCD that I think is somewhat biased by your experience with it. This is to be expected, but something you may want to try to let go of. Other people are other people. It is clear that you are depressed and that you need some professional help with this depression. You say that nothing changes in the therapy you’ve done, but I don’t know how long you did it or whether you were consistent with the ERP. My experience on this blog is just that you struggle to stop doing compulsions, which is the primary thing a person is asked to do in OCD treatment. But the loss of faith in oneself is not to be taken lightly. I hope you seek professional help to address these depressive symptoms above all. >>>Oh a gay guy came onto me in a straight niteclub last weekend and I felt disgusted and weirded out by it and fled pretty quick. I had no desire to get with him. Yet I fear I will act on these urges one day and I feel like I want to crawl up and die because of that. —The idea that you think crawling up and dying is a reasonable way to cope with the possibility that one day you might respond positively to a gay experience suggests a lot of distorted thinking going on. And none of it has anything to actually do with sexual orientation, from what I can tell. You say you had no desire to get with him, but then you say you are afraid you will act on your urges. What urges? That doesn’t make any sense. More accurately, you are afraid of your obsession and responding to it with attempts to prove that it won’t come true, which is only making the presence of the obsession more intrusive and pervasive. >>>>Also I have read that ocd people do not get aroused by their thoughts yet another says 40% do. What is the difference between a groinal and arousal? —The amount of reading you do. >>>>I have read your blog more times than I care to remember but I am still confused. Is a semi erection or full erection considered a groinal? Is it a strong tingling or excitement feeling down there? Where does it start to cross the line? —Where did I say there is a line? A groinal response is a response in your groin. Your groin is the area between your legs. What we make of our interpretation of what goes on between our legs is up to us. Trying to make it a system of measurement for sexual orientation is compulsive, unreliable, and will never work. >>>I apolgise for my incessant behaviour. Nobody hates me more than me. I have read that anxiety will pass if you sit with it for 20-30mins yet mine does linger all day. I will eventually have to give in and test. Maybe its not an ocd urge? Maybe its gay sexual urges that must be released?? I dunno 🙁 Thank you —From what I have read, nobody to date has died from anxiety. Your argument that you will eventually “have to give in” to compulsive choices because anxiety remains high suggests that you believe something else. To your maybe-questions, the answer may be maybe. This is not an endorsement of compulsions, which regardless of how you want to label your experience (OCD, gay, or something else), will never work. On your own, it appears you are making some kind of a commitment to continuing the testing and reassurance seeking compulsions because of the temporary and random moments of relief they bring. I again want to discourage you from this strategy and instead recommend you get professional help for your depression and OCD symptoms. Dave April 11, 2014 at 11:21 pm - Reply Jon thank you so much for answering my post. I am aware I am a serious pain in the ass. As I write this I have just had a horrible day. I have read your reply carefully and I am really trying not to test by masturbation right now. You’re right I am choosing to do compulsions but this is where its so difficult for me: I was filling my car up with gas today at a service station. I was grabbing a take away coffee when this good looking guy walks in and as I glanced at him my brain in that split second thought he might be gay and I got an instant strong tingling sensation in my testicles. This is the response I used to get sexually to girls when I was happy in my teens so I know its an arousal response which scares the crap out of me. Anyway my anxiety went up but not in a panic, more of a mood drop and dwelling on what happened down there. I was thinking about it for hours after even as I went about my day. LAter as I was relaxing watching tv I saw a soccer player changing his jersey and I was caught off guard as he took his top off and I get this VERY STRONG tension suddenly grip my groin like I was getting super aroused against my will. It was absolutely terrifying. Then this evening I was with some friends and got very strong groinal responses around them but different from the one I had earlier. This time I felt tightening in my perineum, a slight semi, and this awful sexual tension and again my mood plummeted. Its impossible to ignore it Jon as the feelings down there are SO STRONG and scary. At its worst its like this massive sexual tension or urge in my groin to have sex with a guy even though Im terrified. I go about my day if I am out of the house but my mind is dwelling on it and my mood is very low and depressed. The reason I’m describing these groinals in detail is to underscore how strong they are and hard to ignore without giving in to compulsions. The sensations are so strong and disturbing that I just want to masturbate to my intrusive scary thoughts just to get rid of that awful ‘horny’ feeling in my groin that stays all day. Then when I get off to it my mind uses that as proof that Im gay as many experts online say that people who are gay masturbate about men most if not all the time and here is me doing just that. Also the relief I feel after makes me feel like I enjoyed it. I know you say anxiety never killed anyone yet I read that many hocd’ers merely have thoughts and not groinals. Now I know you have dedicated a blog to groinals so I’m not the only one but the word ‘groinal response’ is so vague that I feel that others are simply misinterpreting some tiny harmless sensation down there, where as I am getting these massively strong responses in my groin that they couldn’t possibly have what I am experiencing. It’s so strong and scary that my way of interpreting it is that I super aroused by men and that my fear is making the arousal uncomfortable and scary. It makes my heart sink to my stomach. I can only imagine what I am experiencing is gay sexual urges that are repressed like some right wing very religious anti gay weirdo in denial would feel, fighting his urges until he has to give in and lead a secret ”sinful” gay life. I am not religious for the record. I dont hate gays and never would discriminate yet I have read from gays on message boards say that ‘while you are not anti gay, you dont see gay as being equal to straight in your own mind and that is keeping you from embracing your sexual orientation.(gay). I did not ask these gays this, I read a hocder asking them on a site called Empty Closets where they believe hocd is a made up illness to keep guys in denial. Many say they were tormented before accepting themselves as gay so this blows the whole ‘gays love their attraction-hocd’ers fear their ‘attractions” argument out of the water that I have read on ocd websites. Anyway I just wanted to say when I resist compulsions to masturbate the groinal tension lasts indefinitely and then I start having gay dreams at night and I am scared I will have gay wet dreams and that could make me almost suicidal tbh. I live with my parents even though I am past 30. I may have to move into a rented house in another town for my potential new job and I am terrified of that because when I freak out now at least I can come home and no longer have to keep up the mask of being a normal everyday guy. I can talk to my parents about my gay worries and offload some of my fears and break down if needs be where no one can see. If I am sharing a house with people (even if they become friends) I fear I will have no emotional support (as I would never tell anyone about this) when I am really anxious and have no one to talk to and I will have an emotional breakdown. Also I fear my true self (gay?) being exposed to people and I will be exposed as a gay. I fear this because I am worried I will be sharing a house with a hot girl and wont be able to perform sexually if we hook up or I am afraid I will have anxiety attacks in bed like I used to have in my early 20’s with girls. Conversely I am scared I will be sharing a house with a gay guy and end up having sex with him. This terrifies me because I am getting so sick of wondering and worrying I may give in to find out if the opportunity presents itself. Also I fear having seriosuly strong sexual urges (groinals) around a gay guy housemate and giiving into them. This makes me want to stay at home with my parents and not take this job for fear of these potentially disastrous (for me anyway) events from happening. At least I can be myself with them. Does this sound like I am in the closet to you? I had a girlfriend up until recently. She did not know I had ocd or gay fears. I loved her but due to the long distance she ended it plus she probably lost attraction for me. I could have sex with her and enjoyed it. But my big fear is that gay sex would feel so much better. Sorry for vomiting my fears all over you. I really would like to get therapy from you on skype but financially am not currently in a position to do so due to being unemployed for 8 months now. Just to warn you I am a pessimist by nature and hate feeling as if I am ‘bullshitting myself’ by saying this is ocd. I will try my best to not give in to these compusions but it feels like trying to give up heroin. 🙁 Many thanks once again. I know your articles have been a godsend to many sufferers. Jonathan Hershfield April 17, 2014 at 3:58 am - Reply >>>>Jon thank you so much for answering my post. I am aware I am a serious pain in the ass. As I write this I have just had a horrible day. I have read your reply carefully and I am really trying not to test by masturbation right now. You’re right I am choosing to do compulsions but this is where its so difficult for me: I was filling my car up with gas today at a service station. —Yeah, that’s super gay. Oh, there’s more… >>>>>I was grabbing a take away coffee when this good looking guy walks in and as I glanced at him my brain in that split second thought he might be gay and I got an instant strong tingling sensation in my testicles. This is the response I used to get sexually to girls when I was happy in my teens so I know its an arousal response which scares the crap out of me. —This is a logical fallacy. You are saying that because something feels like something else you remember feeling, that the two feelings are the same, for the same reason, or are somehow caused by the same thing. Though they could be, your reasoning for thinking that they MUST be is flawed. Since you are scared much of the time anyway, a more logical assessment of the situation would be to say you don’t know why you felt what you felt and stay out of the interpretation business. >>>Anyway my anxiety went up but not in a panic, more of a mood drop and dwelling on what happened down there. I was thinking about it for hours after even as I went about my day. —This analysis and repeated return to the topic for more analysis (what you call “dwelling”) is a compulsion. Though the thoughts may persist on their own, you are also actively bringing them up for review in an attempt to prove you are not gay. >>>LAter as I was relaxing watching tv I saw a soccer player changing his jersey and I was caught off guard as he took his top off and I get this VERY STRONG tension suddenly grip my groin like I was getting super aroused against my will. It was absolutely terrifying. —This only makes sense if you believe that a physical response between your legs has an intrinsic meaning that is intrinsically threatening. If my groin started talking to me, I would be alarmed. Anything else it might do is not particularly interesting regardless of what I happen to be observing in the moment. If I assigned automatic meaning to the goings-on down there and set about trying to prove that it didn’t mean this or that, I would be convinced I was in denial of my sexual orientation to everything, including men, children, my car, the computer I’m typing away at right this moment, and the lunch I just ate (so delicious I might just secretly want to leave my wife and marry it). >>>Then this evening I was with some friends and got very strong groinal responses around them but different from the one I had earlier. This time I felt tightening in my perineum, a slight semi, and this awful sexual tension and again my mood plummeted. Its impossible to ignore it Jon as the feelings down there are SO STRONG and scary. At its worst its like this massive sexual tension or urge in my groin to have sex with a guy even though Im terrified. I go about my day if I am out of the house but my mind is dwelling on it and my mood is very low and depressed. —I don’t recommend ignoring. Acknowledge what is objectively true, that you are aware of a physical sensation in your groin. My recommendation is to leave it at that rather than pull yourself away from everything you care about to play the certainty game, which you are guaranteed to fail. >>>>The reason I’m describing these groinals in detail is to underscore how strong they are and hard to ignore without giving in to compulsions. The sensations are so strong and disturbing that I just want to masturbate to my intrusive scary thoughts just to get rid of that awful ‘horny’ feeling in my groin that stays all day. Then when I get off to it my mind uses that as proof that Im gay as many experts online say that people who are gay masturbate about men most if not all the time and here is me doing just that. Also the relief I feel after makes me feel like I enjoyed it. —But then they are as strong as they are because of the strong response you give them. >>>>I know you say anxiety never killed anyone yet I read that many hocd’ers merely have thoughts and not groinals. —Not sure where you read that but it is inconsistent with my experience treating HOCD. Though you might still have to accept the possibility that your fears are true and that you are a special case. Further, how a person would be certain if they did or did not have a groinal response is somewhat mysterious. >>>>Now I know you have dedicated a blog to groinals so I’m not the only one but the word ‘groinal response’ is so vague that I feel that others are simply misinterpreting some tiny harmless sensation down there, where as I am getting these massively strong responses in my groin that they couldn’t possibly have what I am experiencing. It’s so strong and scary that my way of interpreting it is that I super aroused by men and that my fear is making the arousal uncomfortable and scary. It makes my heart sink to my stomach. I can only imagine what I am experiencing is gay sexual urges that are repressed like some right wing very religious anti gay weirdo in denial would feel, fighting his urges until he has to give in and lead a secret ”sinful” gay life. I am not religious for the record. —Your fear is that what happens between your legs is more severe than what happens between the legs of other people who say they have HOCD. This is either true, untrue, or something like the truth. You have to accept this possibility rather than trying to prove it away. This would be true of any obsession, such as the Harm OCD sufferer who tells me they felt a strong urge in their hand toward reaching for a knife and not just a thought or a tingling in their fingers. >>>>I dont hate gays and never would discriminate yet I have read from gays on message boards say that ‘while you are not anti gay, you dont see gay as being equal to straight in your own mind and that is keeping you from embracing your sexual orientation.(gay). I did not ask these gays this, I read a hocder asking them on a site called Empty Closets where they believe hocd is a made up illness to keep guys in denial. Many say they were tormented before accepting themselves as gay so this blows the whole ‘gays love their attraction-hocd’ers fear their ‘attractions” argument out of the water that I have read on ocd websites. —-I realize the irony of me saying this on my own blog, but I can’t take anything you say seriously if it is going to start with “but I read on the internet…” >>>Anyway I just wanted to say when I resist compulsions to masturbate the groinal tension lasts indefinitely and then I start having gay dreams at night and I am scared I will have gay wet dreams and that could make me almost suicidal tbh. —What makes you so desperate is your interpretation of the experience, not the experience itself. Have gay dreams. So be it. >>>I live with my parents even though I am past 30. I may have to move into a rented house in another town for my potential new job and I am terrified of that because when I freak out now at least I can come home and no longer have to keep up the mask of being a normal everyday guy. I can talk to my parents about my gay worries and offload some of my fears —Sounds like you have them participating in your reassurance compulsions. You should teach them about OCD and form a contract with them in which they have your permission to deny you reassurance. >>>and break down if needs be where no one can see. If I am sharing a house with people (even if they become friends) I fear I will have no emotional support (as I would never tell anyone about this) when I am really anxious and have no one to talk to and I will have an emotional breakdown. —Living at home may be a good safety net. Or it may be a form of avoidance. Hard to say, but if you are afraid you can’t function outside of your parents’ house, you pretty much guarantee it if you never move out. >>>Also I fear my true self (gay?) being exposed to people and I will be exposed as a gay. —This assumes anyone cares what sexual orientation you are. Anyone who actually DID care is unlikely to care as much as you seem to. But above all, what other people think is unknowable. >>>>I fear this because I am worried I will be sharing a house with a hot girl and wont be able to perform sexually if we hook up —Don’t hook up with your hot girl roommate. That story almost always ends in murder-suicide or waking up in a tub of ice with your kidney missing. Both problems bigger than being secretly gay. >>>>or I am afraid I will have anxiety attacks in bed like I used to have in my early 20′s with girls. Conversely I am scared I will be sharing a house with a gay guy and end up having sex with him. This terrifies me because I am getting so sick of wondering and worrying I may give in to find out if the opportunity presents itself. Also I fear having seriosuly strong sexual urges (groinals) around a gay guy housemate and giiving into them. This makes me want to stay at home with my parents and not take this job for fear of these potentially disastrous (for me anyway) events from happening. At least I can be myself with them. Does this sound like I am in the closet to you? —You talk of being yourself and at the same time are avoiding pretty much anything that has the potential to develop a sense of self. I think you are not yourself now, but a slave to your obsession. The term “in the closet” comes from the fact that homosexuals have historically had to hide their lifestyle from hetero-normative society, hence having gay sexual encounters in closets and such instead of broadcasting their affections to the public. I can’t imagine what “in the closet” has to do with what your experience is. >>>I had a girlfriend up until recently. She did not know I had ocd or gay fears. I loved her but due to the long distance she ended it plus she probably lost attraction for me. I could have sex with her and enjoyed it. But my big fear is that gay sex would feel so much better. —Maybe it would. I don’t see why that’s relevant to what you’re going through. I have not had gay sex nor do I have any plans to, but my guess is it feels pretty awesome. >>>>Sorry for vomiting my fears all over you. I really would like to get therapy from you on skype but financially am not currently in a position to do so due to being unemployed for 8 months now. Just to warn you I am a pessimist by nature and hate feeling as if I am ‘bullshitting myself’ by saying this is ocd. —If you plan to get better, you can do so while still being a pessimist, but you will have to eventually do exposure to your fear that this is not OCD and that you might be gay. The only way to effectively do this exposure would be to live your life and stop trying to prove you are straight. >>>>I will try my best to not give in to these compusions but it feels like trying to give up heroin. 🙁 —That’s true. So since people actually do successfully give up heroin (I have met a few who have), it suggests that they have decided whatever pain they have to go through to get off of the drug is worth it, that there is some value they have which means more to them than being high. If the thing you value most in life is certainty about your orientation and certainty does not exist, then this is a recipe for depression. >>>>Many thanks once again. I know your articles have been a godsend to many sufferers. —Don’t give up on yourself. Ryan April 16, 2014 at 4:29 am - Reply Hi Jon, So since I’ve been forced to stop the treatment I’ve been doing pretty well at stopping the complulsions as well as practicing some mindfulness, and it was actually working. I felt a connection to my girlfriend that I hadn’t felt in a long time, and my anxiety and depression was mostly non-existent. However, I’m afraid I’m starting to have obsessive thoughts about one gay man in particular. While it’s a passing worry right now, I’m expecting it to take up more of my thought process like all my other obsessions in time. When the thought first came it was just a thought, but isn’t that how these things always start? I find it hard to deal with how unfair this all is at times. I know I’m going to choose my girlfriend no matter what, I just want my thought process to match that. While there are many obsessive questions I could ask you, I’m not going to as I’ve been down that road too many times before. Jonathan Hershfield April 18, 2014 at 5:34 pm - Reply Hi Ryan, I would do exposure to the idea that your focus on a specific person may develop into an obsession and may interfere in your ability to enjoy being who you are. You can do this by writing scripts about the person or finding other ways of triggering this thought. Much of what you are describing suggests that you are hoping to control your thoughts one day, a concept which always gives OCD the upper hand. When you are no longer afraid of having certain kinds of thoughts, you stop setting up self-protective roadblocks. Then regardless of the content, your thoughts appear less threatening. C April 21, 2014 at 4:10 pm - Reply Hi Jon, Recently my thoughts have gone down a lot, but I still have a feeling that I might be gay. I’ve tried to face this fear but the feeling/thought is just telling me that this is really who I am and bringing all kinds of evidence out. I have a sense that this feeling is just fear and I’d like to eradicate it, so I’ve been trying some scripting and exposure. One thing that scares me the most is that someday I will just realize that I’m gay and that the evidence has been there all along. Right now if I made up my mind to do it I could probably just ignore this feeling and move on but my brain always wants me to check and see if it’s still there, and then figure out how to get rid of it (similar to “just right” ocd, I don’t want to move on without getting rid of this feeling because then i won’t feel just right!) If something good happens to me and I feel happy the feeling comes up again and says “yes but I’m still here and therefore you must be gay, just think of all of the close girl friends you have had and how little success you’ve had with boys, there must be a reason for that, it’s totally possible that you are gay” and it feels very real. Like I said, I’ve tried some scripting and exposure by looking up “how I realized I’m gay” stories online but since I’ve made progress on the actual anxiety it’s harder to put myself in the story and actually bring up the scary feelings. Doing things like that mostly just makes me want to cry instead of feeling any anxiety. I wish I could return to having crushes on guys instead of feeling like I am probably going to realize I’m a lesbian at any moment…. and in my logical mind I know I’m not a lesbian, but it’s like the emotional part of my mind disagrees and wants me to constantly try to attack this bad feeling. I’m not sure what to do, do you have any ideas for how to tackle this? Jonathan Hershfield April 25, 2014 at 9:16 pm - Reply >>>>>Recently my thoughts have gone down a lot, but I still have a feeling that I might be gay. I’ve tried to face this fear but the feeling/thought is just telling me that this is really who I am and bringing all kinds of evidence out. —How can a feeling or thought “bring out” evidence? Evidence is something that exists outside of the mind and can be collected and measured, such as the number of times you wake up naked next to members of the same sex. Thoughts and feelings are not evidence. Trying to get a feeling to go away only makes the inevitable presence of that feeling more problematic. A better strategy would be to accept the feelings as they are and choose behaviors based on your best guess in each present moment. >>>>I have a sense that this feeling is just fear and I’d like to eradicate it, so I’ve been trying some scripting and exposure. One thing that scares me the most is that someday I will just realize that I’m gay and that the evidence has been there all along. Right now if I made up my mind to do it I could probably just ignore this feeling and move on but my brain always wants me to check and see if it’s still there, and then figure out how to get rid of it (similar to “just right” ocd, I don’t want to move on without getting rid of this feeling because then i won’t feel just right!) If something good happens to me and I feel happy the feeling comes up again and says “yes but I’m still here and therefore you must be gay, just think of all of the close girl friends you have had and how little success you’ve had with boys, there must be a reason for that, it’s totally possible that you are gay” and it feels very real. —These are excellent insights and you should use this skill of yours, the skill of being able to articulate and pinpoint your fears, for making the most effective exposure scripts. >>>>Like I said, I’ve tried some scripting and exposure by looking up “how I realized I’m gay” stories online but since I’ve made progress on the actual anxiety it’s harder to put myself in the story and actually bring up the scary feelings. Doing things like that mostly just makes me want to cry instead of feeling any anxiety. I wish I could return to having crushes on guys instead of feeling like I am probably going to realize I’m a lesbian at any moment…. and in my logical mind I know I’m not a lesbian, but it’s like the emotional part of my mind disagrees and wants me to constantly try to attack this bad feeling. I’m not sure what to do, do you have any ideas for how to tackle this? —I would focus the ERP on making the most effective scripts, so the focus is as fear-based as possible. And I would look at any thing you avoid because it triggers the thoughts as something to confront. Actually, general exposures to ensure more frequent triggering would be good, such as putting up a triggering picture somewhere you might see it a lot. The issue of feeling frustrated with your thoughts and feelings not matching is a mindfulness issue, one in which you need to work on observing the thoughts and feelings as being whatever they are, rather than judging where you think they are supposed to be. George April 24, 2014 at 9:52 pm - Reply Hi, Ive been dealing with anxiety and ocd since my mid/late teens, am now 21. I have only recently been diagnosed and start treatment soon (hopefully). the vast majority of my experience with odd is about my health, but I have had problems with Harm and now sexual. In the past these ocd episodes seemed to last a couple of weeks, and slowly the thoughts would disappear and I would be back to feeling like myself. However Ive been crippled by HOCD for nearly 4 months now, and its made my life a living hell. At first the thoughts would cause a great deal of panic, but now its like its just part of my life and something I deal with everyday. I used to get good spells where I would feel great again, this could last a couple hours or a couple of days. But I can’t remember now the last time this happened. Its like I don’t know who I am anymore and it sucks, I used to be so happy with my life. I have thoughts whilst watching TV, whilst playing sport, with friends and even family sometimes. I don’t know how much more of this I can cope, I don’t understand how something like this could happen, its so bizarre. Its happened before and I have got over it, so why can’t I this time? I really have lost all hope of my normal thoughts ever coming back. To make it even worst, I have started to talking to a girl, who Is great and really attractive. However when I realised that something could happen with this girl, I have been overwhelmed by doubt. “what If I don’t get aroused when I’m with her”, “what if my ocd ruins the chance of a relationship” “what if my sex drive doesn’t come back” and so on. Its tearing me apart and I can only dream of how I would normally react in this situation. J May 9, 2014 at 4:27 pm - Reply I’m a 25 years old male, and since the end of last year, i’m having hocd. I had before at 16 (that lasted for years) when i almost have been raped in my first job. But i overcome this and hocd had gone. But i kept having ocd, fear of having cancer, fear of the world is not real (like matrix). I also always get really bad after watching porn, i fell like i’m cheating my gf with porn and become paranoid, i’m dating her for 5 years. But late last year, on a day i was really bad, paranoid because i had masturbated watching porn, the night before the day (i not slept the night to watch porn), in a joke in service, a friend pulled my arm on his penis, which i did not like. But i felt a strange feeling, i had no erection or anything, but it was a strange feeling down there. I started getting really scared and paranoid since then, always trying to confirm that i am straight. I know i’m straight, but my brain always tell me: if you are straight why you had this strange feeling? and i get more and more scared. This is messing up my life, studies and work. i’m begging for help. Jonathan Hershfield April 28, 2014 at 2:00 pm - Reply >>>>I’m a 25 years old male, and since the end of last year, i’m having hocd. I had before at 16 (that lasted for years) when i almost have been raped in my first job. But i overcome this and hocd had gone. —Sorry to hear about your traumatic experience, that must have ben difficult to cope with. >>>But i kept having ocd, fear of having cancer, fear of the world is not real (like matrix). —This is not an unusual obsession, people sometimes call it existential OCD. >>>I also always get really bad after watching porn, i fell like i’m cheating my gf with porn and become paranoid, i’m dating her for 5 years. But late last year, on a day i was really bad, paranoid because i had masturbated watching porn, the night before the day (i not slept the night to watch porn), in a joke in service, a friend pulled my arm on his penis, which i did not like. But i felt a strange feeling, i had no erection or anything, but it was a strange feeling down there. I started getting really scared and paranoid since then, always trying to confirm that i am straight. I know i’m straight, but my brain always tell me: if you are straight why you had this strange feeling? and i get more and more scared. —It sounds like there is a belief that being straight means not having any strange feelings. This is resulting in you doing compulsions to prove that the strange feeling does not mean you are gay, which is impossible and just fuels the obsession. >>>This is messing up my life, studies and work. i’m begging for help. —The treatment that works for OCD is cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) with exposure w/ response prevention (ERP). My recommendation is to get treatment, identify and resist compulsions, and confront your fear of uncertainty (for this, cancer, or anything else). D May 18, 2014 at 8:03 pm - Reply Hi, 30 year old male her. Ive been dealing with anxiety and depression for my whole life. Recently though OCD has been the worst. The OCD is much worse when I am anxious and or depressed. I finally got it under control though not till after my girlfriend and I broke up. I controlled the OCD with meds, ACT therapy, stopping avoidance behaviors, controlling sources of stress and quitting porn my previous favorite compulsive behavior. I must thank you and your blog for giving me the courage to go to therapy and treat this type of OCD. I still am dealing with some anxiety when feminine looking men talk with me. I am also afraid to commit deeper to the new girl I am dating for fear of hurting her. I previously had a dream of opening my own business but the OCD fears make me hesitant to talk to people though I am much better than only 3 months ago. Also on some days I wake up anxious and my libido becomes nonexistent this exacerbates my mental checking behaviors. Do you have any advice on speeding up recovery and preventing relapses? Jonathan Hershfield May 24, 2014 at 6:29 pm - Reply >>>>Hi, 30 year old male her. Ive been dealing with anxiety and depression for my whole life. Recently though OCD has been the worst. The OCD is much worse when I am anxious and or depressed. I finally got it under control though not till after my girlfriend and I broke up. I controlled the OCD with meds, ACT therapy, stopping avoidance behaviors, controlling sources of stress and quitting porn my previous favorite compulsive behavior. I must thank you and your blog for giving me the courage to go to therapy and treat this type of OCD. —Sounds like you’ve worked hard to overcome a lot of challenges. >>>>I still am dealing with some anxiety when feminine looking men talk with me. —This is an interesting subject. “Feminine men” (assuming we are talking about men who exhibit significant “flamboyant” traits”) often make people feel something. Could be anxiety, humor, disgust — all that depends on your experience I guess. The comedian Louis CK has a bit about why he thinks it’s ok to laugh at a gay person if they’re being what he thinks is silly, not just because of their orientation. Several times I have had HOCD clients tell me that they are very concerned because they felt uncomfortable when a very feminine-seeming man interacted with them. Some of it may be a fear of being sexually attracted or something directly related to the obsession, but I think at least some of this has to be black-and-white thinking about how you’re “supposed to” respond to people. This a long-winded way of me saying that maybe you need to accept that some people make you uncomfortable and just be uncomfortable instead of trying to do something about it. If you are finding that you are avoiding people with specific traits because of your OCD, then of course try to find ways to get more exposure to these people and resist the urge to make yourself feel good about it. >>>>I am also afraid to commit deeper to the new girl I am dating for fear of hurting her. I previously had a dream of opening my own business but the OCD fears make me hesitant to talk to people though I am much better than only 3 months ago. Also on some days I wake up anxious and my libido becomes nonexistent this exacerbates my mental checking behaviors. —This is very common and probably the absolute worst symptom associated with OCD – avoidance of life. I recommend you put your foot down and adamantly refuse to let your fear get in the way of your values. You value having a relationship – so pursue a relationship. If it means you have to risk destroying someone’s life in the process, you look the OCD in the eye and you say “worth it.” You value being a business man? Then take the risk that it will all fall apart because of your spontaneous escape from the closet. You might be wrong. If you’re wrong, you get to have a life filled with the pursuit of your values – that is, the equation for happiness. If your fears are accurate, you will still lead a life of values, but have to cope with some adjustments that may be difficult. But consider the worst nightmare of all – putting your life on hold and then one day discovering you didn’t have to and it’s too late. >>>>Do you have any advice on speeding up recovery and preventing relapses? —Don’t back down. Insist on non-avoidance of the things you care about. And of course, accept uncertainty. naina May 22, 2014 at 4:00 pm - Reply Hi jon Im 14 year old girl and i think i have cd I wanna share my story …… So around 2 years back i had this crazy obsession with all the electrical appliances .. I would make sure that i closed all of them before going 2 bed it started out as a precaution but it became a daily habit but it became so bad that i would repeatedly check again and again just 2 make sure the house dint get burned down or got burgled cause i dint lock the door properly it consumed a lot of time And i would end up going to bed really very late because of this And all of this checking had to be done in particular oder or i wud find myself in distress Then just a few days back i was reading an article in a magazine about gay people And a random thought popped into my head ” what if i am a lesbian ” ? Initially i brushed the thought away cause it sounded so stupid But slowly it really started bothering me and this thought kept me occupied for the whole day And i slipped into depression All day i would search the internet for answers I read about coming out stories and theey caused me terrible anxiety The feeling was like i always had before my maths exam A tight knot in my stomach and my heart pounding 🙁 It was all so confusing cause ever scince i entered puberty ive always liked guys and had numerous crushes on them . The only thing i ever wanted was a boyfriend . and ive never seen girls as a romantic interest nor have i ever had crushes on them . And i also go to a all girls school and ive never been attracted to my peers at school and now its like whenever i review my crushes over mentally in my head its like my brain is telling me that i dint like them or i just somehow convinced myself that i liked guys 2 repress my true lesbian self Somedays i feel 100 percent straight and the feers seem irrational and stupid but on bad days they seem so real they scare the crap outta me I even stopped watching t.v cause of fear of seeing someone attractive of the same sex Whenever i had gay thoughts i wud repeat the phrase ” im know im straight ” five times over I also began having wierd thoughts like maybe im not nice enoough to my grandma and thats why im having gay thoughts or i should keep my pair of specs on my dresser this way i wont have lesbian thoughts .. i know totally wierd but i did this stuff anyway Now whenever i go out i find myself doing a lot of checking whenever i see members of the same sex i think about kissing them It still dosnt feel right and it feels pretty disgusting so i think thank god this means im not a lesbian But again my brain finds a wayb2 manupilate my feelings and then i asm myself “did i really feel disgust or did i actually enjoy these thoughts “? Its so frustrating and i forced myself 2 watch t.v again but all i do is a lot of checking again I keep on playing imaginary secnarios in my head where im kissing a girl and then im kissing a boy and then i compare them Kissing a girl still dosnt feel right Gah it feels like im losing my old self 🙁 And i also had fears of bieng a pedophile now wenever i c children i get scared and think ” what if i touch them inappropriately ? And i feel so disgusted Sometimes my mind tells me that maybe im a disgusting person and i dont deserve to live Is this OCD ? I feel so bad all the time. Plzz help me Jonathan Hershfield May 24, 2014 at 7:06 pm - Reply >>>>Hi jon Im 14 year old girl and i think i have cd I wanna share my story …… —Brave of you to write. >>>>So around 2 years back i had this crazy obsession with all the electrical appliances .. I would make sure that i closed all of them before going 2 bed it started out as a precaution but it became a daily habit but it became so bad that i would repeatedly check again and again just 2 make sure the house dint get burned down or got burgled cause i dint lock the door properly it consumed a lot of time And i would end up going to bed really very late because of this And all of this checking had to be done in particular oder or i wud find myself in distress —This is a very common form of OCD. >>>>Then just a few days back i was reading an article in a magazine about gay people And a random thought popped into my head ” what if i am a lesbian ” ? Initially i brushed the thought away cause it sounded so stupid But slowly it really started bothering me and this thought kept me occupied for the whole day And i slipped into depression All day i would search the internet for answers —This is a common compulsive response to a common obsession. It can be especially potent for someone your age because your sexual mind is going through some developmental changes and this is making the issue of orientation seem super-important. >>>I read about coming out stories and theey caused me terrible anxiety The feeling was like i always had before my maths exam A tight knot in my stomach and my heart pounding 🙁 It was all so confusing cause ever scince i entered puberty ive always liked guys and had numerous crushes on them . The only thing i ever wanted was a boyfriend . and ive never seen girls as a romantic interest nor have i ever had crushes on them . And i also go to a all girls school and ive never been attracted to my peers at school and now its like whenever i review my crushes over mentally in my head its like my brain is telling me that i dint like them or i just somehow convinced myself that i liked guys 2 repress my true lesbian self —You need to recognize that reviewing crushes in your head is a mental ritual. Instead of repeatedly trying to get certainty that the electrical appliances are off, by checking them, you are repeatedly trying to get certainty that you aren’t gay by “checking” your memories of crushes. Your life is more functional when you assume the appliances have been turned off and accept that if the house burns down, you’ll deal with it. Same here. >>>>Somedays i feel 100 percent straight and the feers seem irrational and stupid but on bad days they seem so real they scare the crap outta me I even stopped watching t.v cause of fear of seeing someone attractive of the same sex —This form of avoidance pretty much guarantees that the obsessive thoughts will worsen and have more power ver you. Avoidance makes everything worse. Watch what you want to watch and accept that it may come with unwanted thoughts. The alternative is living in a smaller and smaller world until you can’t do anything at all. >>>Whenever i had gay thoughts i wud repeat the phrase ” im know im straight ” five times over —Major compulsion, which again only makes the obsession more powerful. >>>I also began having wierd thoughts like maybe im not nice enoough to my grandma and thats why im having gay thoughts or i should keep my pair of specs on my dresser this way i wont have lesbian thoughts .. i know totally wierd but i did this stuff anyway Now whenever i go out i find myself doing a lot of checking whenever i see members of the same sex i think about kissing them It still dosnt feel right and it feels pretty disgusting so i think thank god this means im not a lesbian But again my brain finds a wayb2 manupilate my feelings and then i asm myself “did i really feel disgust or did i actually enjoy these thoughts “? Its so frustrating and i forced myself 2 watch t.v again but all i do is a lot of checking again I keep on playing imaginary secnarios in my head where im kissing a girl and then im kissing a boy and then i compare them Kissing a girl still dosnt feel right —You have to watch tv without engaging in mental rituals or you are just demonstrating to your brain that tv is dangerous. >>>>Gah it feels like im losing my old self 🙁 And i also had fears of bieng a pedophile now wenever i c children i get scared and think ” what if i touch them inappropriately ? And i feel so disgusted Sometimes my mind tells me that maybe im a disgusting person and i dont deserve to live Is this OCD ? I feel so bad all the time. Plzz help me —I can’t diagnose you via a blog comment. But suffice it to say that if you told me you looked kind of like a striped horse and you lived in a zoo, I’d suggest you might be a zebra. My recommendation is that you get treatment for OCD, or at least seek out an OCD specialist and get an evaluation. Everything you described above is not only treatable, but common, meaning any decent ocd specialist would know how to help you navigate out of this web you found yourself in. And if you can regain control of your symptoms at this age, consider all the grief you’ve spared yourself in adulthood. Start by talking to your parents if they are people you can turn to. You might want to check out http://www.ocfoundation.org/ocdinkids/teens_young_adults/do_you_have_ocd.aspx and the other resources on that page. naina May 25, 2014 at 8:12 am - Reply Thanks a lot !! Any advice on how to approach my parents I spoke to my maa about it amd she just said it was harmones and i shouldnt be bothered about it .. I dont think we can afford a therapist at the moment Any advice on how to beat this monster ? I want to come back to leading a happy life … This ocd or whatever it is is ruining my life …..any self help books u can suggest ? Also i want to thank u for such wonderful articles on the subject of ocd Whenever i have such thoughts i end up reading your blog . ( i know compulsive behaviour ) il try 2 avoid it .. again thank u any help will be greatly appreciated Jonathan Hershfield June 7, 2014 at 3:57 am - Reply It depends on what kind of relationship you have with your parents. Ideally you could be open and honest with them, and by open and honest, I mean you can explain to them that this is not just hormones or normal teenage sexual confusion, but an obsession, something that keeps you awake at night. If therapy is unaffordable or inaccessible, the next best thing would be some books on the subject. There is a good booklist at ocfoundation.org and I believe there is a section specifically for teens. Michelle June 2, 2014 at 11:36 pm - Reply Hi Jon, I don’t know if this is what I have or not but I often come and read your articles and comments for relief from my anxiety which I am doing now. I am 25 and have been in my relationship with my boyfriend for 8 years. I have always known I have been attracted to men sexually and romantically and remember having crushed on guys and men. I have never doubted or questioned my sexuality until 8 months ago. I remember I started to doubt my sexuality and sexual orientation after reading a personal recovery story from an al anon book (because I am in the program). I remember reading it and relating to it because he was young and he described his relationship with his girlfriend of 5 years ending. Right around the time I read this story I was also contemplating whether I wanted to break up with my boyfriend or not. This guy then described falling in love with another women but then through the “safeness” of alanon started remembering memories of sexual abuse and then could face his homosexuality. I remember having an immediate pit in my stomach (like now) of “Is that me? What if I’m a lesbian and have been repressing it? What if I discover I’m a lesbian?” “What if I’ve been sexually abused and don’t remember and will remember by being in al-anon”. I was able for a week or two to push this away but then was so anxious I literally couldn’t sleep for 3 nights (falling asleep for 2 hours in the afternoon out of exhaustion but waking up anxious) and got a prescription for meds to help with the anxiety. I am now off of them though. So I worried about both of them. I have “tried” to remember if there is any indication I have been sexually abused even narrowing it down to who in my family could have possibly done this, WHICH is awful and there is no indication to do so, I could never tell them this and feel pretty horrible about this. Even like almost trying to create an imagination of it but obviously I can’t because I don’t remember this happening. I still fear I could have a memory about this one day. But the worrying that I might be bisexual or a lesbian is still here and I am constantly doubting. Is it normal for it to be really strong some days, even a week, some days there’s worry or thoughts without the anxiety, and then some days the anxiety is really strong? Or does this just mean I am trying to repress that I might be bisexual or a lesbian? I experimented once with kissing a friend of mine who is a girl when I was 14 but I never had romantic or sexual feelings for her, she basically asked me if I had ever kissed a girl and tried it. I have also been turned on watching lesbian porn. I seeked out another therapist who specialized in sexuality and sexual orientation issues who reassured me this doesn’t necessary have anything to with someones orientation. I felt relief after this for a while but I am still worried about it and often google to know it is common. I often ruminate through my past memories of any moment which may have indicated I had feelings for girls or friends that I ignored. Would I know by now if I had ignored them? I can honestly say (although I even doubt that I am even telling the truth here if that makes sense) that I have never desired to be romantically or sexually involved with a female. I have gotten anxiety now for women who are attractive but who before this hit, I would have just realized they were attractive looking, maybe wish I looked like them, and that’s all. This post is helpful though with denial and friendships because I have worried that i have just denied my feelings for my friends with my girl friends,, even though I never wanted to be sexual or romantic with them. Before dating my boyfriend, when I was in high school, I did have a few close guy friends but since then I can’t say I have any close guy friend. I have been pretty close with some of my girlfriends but have always considered them more like sisters. I make friends easier with girls and am pretty shy and intimated around guys, especially if I find them attractive. I also find it hard to flirt with them because I feel stupid or that I am going to make a fool out of myself. I generally have suffered from pretty low self esteem. But I am worried and doubt that his means it’s because I am actually more connected and attracted to women and could be bisexual? I’ve asked my boyfriend numerous times and a friend if they ever thought I could be a lesbian? I don’t know how to stop worrying about the future. About what if I could fall in love with a women after I’m married and have kids. I find that when I don’t feel anxious and feel “straight” (I know this really isnt significant) but then easily I can read something or hear something that gives me anxiety and starts me doubting again. Before this hit I was seriously doubting what my feelings were for my boyfriend and if I wanted to break up or not. If there was someone better, if I am just too scared to leave him, if there is someone better for me. 3 years ago he went on an exchange in school (which is stressful to begin with) and I was obsessively worrying about whether he was spending time with girls, would break up with me, or cheat on me although I really had no reason to believe this and he continuously showed me he loved me and wanted to be in a relationship with me, and I had a lot of anxiety around this time. I was always worrying about how much he loved me. We have a stronger relationship now and I love him and love spending time with him, I am attracted to him and we are talking about moving in together. I fear that I have been in denial about my sexual orientation or that I am somehow discovering it, or will in the future, and this is just something that is coming up so I can realize it before we get married and it makes it harder. I relate to many things people share on here and find myself googling about how to know if I am gay, coming out stories, ocd almost every day now. I jsut feel tortured and controlled by this, it’s been so long, I find it hard to focus on other things. Do you have any advice? Jonathan Hershfield June 7, 2014 at 4:29 pm - Reply >>>Hi Jon, I don’t know if this is what I have or not but I often come and read your articles and comments for relief from my anxiety which I am doing now. —Sounds like OCD. >>>I am 25 and have been in my relationship with my boyfriend for 8 years. I have always known I have been attracted to men sexually and romantically and remember having crushed on guys and men. I have never doubted or questioned my sexuality until 8 months ago. I remember I started to doubt my sexuality and sexual orientation after reading a personal recovery story from an al anon book (because I am in the program). I remember reading it and relating to it because he was young and he described his relationship with his girlfriend of 5 years ending. Right around the time I read this story I was also contemplating whether I wanted to break up with my boyfriend or not. This guy then described falling in love with another women but then through the “safeness” of alanon started remembering memories of sexual abuse and then could face his homosexuality. I remember having an immediate pit in my stomach (like now) of “Is that me? What if I’m a lesbian and have been repressing it? What if I discover I’m a lesbian?” “What if I’ve been sexually abused and don’t remember and will remember by being in al-anon”. I was able for a week or two to push this away but then was so anxious I literally couldn’t sleep for 3 nights (falling asleep for 2 hours in the afternoon out of exhaustion but waking up anxious) and got a prescription for meds to help with the anxiety. I am now off of them though. —Those are a lot of “what-ifs.” >>>>So I worried about both of them. I have “tried” to remember if there is any indication I have been sexually abused even narrowing it down to who in my family could have possibly done this, WHICH is awful and there is no indication to do so, I could never tell them this and feel pretty horrible about this. Even like almost trying to create an imagination of it but obviously I can’t because I don’t remember this happening. I still fear I could have a memory about this one day. —This is a compulsion. I have encountered a few people with what they sometimes call “false memory” obsessions wherein they become concerned that something may be buried in there that they have to figure out. It’s unfortunate because a lot of time gets wasted in a fictional past while the present continues to be left behind. >>>>But the worrying that I might be bisexual or a lesbian is still here and I am constantly doubting. Is it normal for it to be really strong some days, even a week, some days there’s worry or thoughts without the anxiety, and then some days the anxiety is really strong? Or does this just mean I am trying to repress that I might be bisexual or a lesbian? —No idea. Anxiety is a part of life and comes and goes in the general population. OCD is a mental disorder that includes obsessions and compulsions, impairs functioning, and takes at least an hour a day of obsessing or compulsing. It waxes and wanes throughout one’s life and appears to go up and down for several reasons, including stress. >>>I experimented once with kissing a friend of mine who is a girl when I was 14 but I never had romantic or sexual feelings for her, she basically asked me if I had ever kissed a girl and tried it. I have also been turned on watching lesbian porn. I seeked out another therapist who specialized in sexuality and sexual orientation issues who reassured me this doesn’t necessary have anything to with someones orientation. I felt relief after this for a while but I am still worried about it and often google to know it is common. —It would be very convenient if reassurance worked, but unfortunately it doesn’t when you have OCD. You saw a sex specialist who told you that you have no reason to think you are gay, but you have an informational bias that pushes you to constantly discount information that conflicts with your obsession. Googling is just another form of compulsive reassurance seeking and backfires accordingly. >>>>I often ruminate through my past memories of any moment which may have indicated I had feelings for girls or friends that I ignored. Would I know by now if I had ignored them? I can honestly say (although I even doubt that I am even telling the truth here if that makes sense) that I have never desired to be romantically or sexually involved with a female. I have gotten anxiety now for women who are attractive but who before this hit, I would have just realized they were attractive looking, maybe wish I looked like them, and that’s all. —The question is why you think this is information you’ve collected during the course of a mental ritual is useful or important information. >>>This post is helpful though with denial and friendships because I have worried that i have just denied my feelings for my friends with my girl friends,, even though I never wanted to be sexual or romantic with them. Before dating my boyfriend, when I was in high school, I did have a few close guy friends but since then I can’t say I have any close guy friend. I have been pretty close with some of my girlfriends but have always considered them more like sisters. I make friends easier with girls and am pretty shy and intimated around guys, especially if I find them attractive. I also find it hard to flirt with them because I feel stupid or that I am going to make a fool out of myself. I generally have suffered from pretty low self esteem. But I am worried and doubt that his means it’s because I am actually more connected and attracted to women and could be bisexual? I’ve asked my boyfriend numerous times and a friend if they ever thought I could be a lesbian? I don’t know how to stop worrying about the future. About what if I could fall in love with a women after I’m married and have kids. —You seem to want certainty about the future, which is not possible. If you put your life on hold because of your fears about the future, you are likely to be disappointed with the results. If you guess and pursue the things of value to you in the present, you may find that the future works out just fine and that you don’t need to know ahed of time exactly how. >>>I find that when I don’t feel anxious and feel “straight” (I know this really isnt significant) but then easily I can read something or hear something that gives me anxiety and starts me doubting again. Before this hit I was seriously doubting what my feelings were for my boyfriend and if I wanted to break up or not. If there was someone better, if I am just too scared to leave him, if there is someone better for me. 3 years ago he went on an exchange in school (which is stressful to begin with) and I was obsessively worrying about whether he was spending time with girls, would break up with me, or cheat on me although I really had no reason to believe this and he continuously showed me he loved me and wanted to be in a relationship with me, and I had a lot of anxiety around this time. I was always worrying about how much he loved me. We have a stronger relationship now and I love him and love spending time with him, I am attracted to him and we are talking about moving in together. —Relationship obsessions are common in OCD. >>>I fear that I have been in denial about my sexual orientation or that I am somehow discovering it, or will in the future, and this is just something that is coming up so I can realize it before we get married and it makes it harder. I relate to many things people share on here and find myself googling about how to know if I am gay, coming out stories, ocd almost every day now. I jsut feel tortured and controlled by this, it’s been so long, I find it hard to focus on other things. Do you have any advice? —You should take the risk that you are denial and get treatment for OCD from an OCD specialist who can teach you how to stop doing compulsions and embrace the present before you run out of time on Earth dwelling on the past and future. Ryan June 12, 2014 at 11:02 am - Reply Hi Jon, For the past month or so I’ve been working on stopping compulsions. I no longer engage in avoidance in watching tv and seeing friends, I just try living with the groinal responses and thoughts without judgement. I get groinal responses without anxiety which upsets me but I know there’s no definitive answer for them. However, the one compulsion I keep engaging in is checking to see if I’m attracted to men. How do you normally help your patients combat this? I don’t feel anxiety over these thoughts/feelings anymore, but I get a groinal response every time I’m touched by a man. I don’t want to ask I reassuring question but throughout this process I have progressively felt more gay, and I can’t help but get upset by it at times. Jonathan Hershfield June 20, 2014 at 7:05 pm - Reply >>>>For the past month or so I’ve been working on stopping compulsions. I no longer engage in avoidance in watching tv and seeing friends, I just try living with the groinal responses and thoughts without judgement. I get groinal responses without anxiety which upsets me but I know there’s no definitive answer for them. —What upsets you is probably the idea that you’re not supposed to have groinal responses to things. But groins have responses to things. >>>>However, the one compulsion I keep engaging in is checking to see if I’m attracted to men. How do you normally help your patients combat this? I don’t feel anxiety over these thoughts/feelings anymore, but I get a groinal response every time I’m touched by a man. I don’t want to ask I reassuring question but throughout this process I have progressively felt more gay, and I can’t help but get upset by it at times. —When you say you are checking to see if you are attracted, you need to recognize this behavior as a compulsion and abandon it when you catch it. One way to do this is to expose to the idea that maybe you are attracted to men and to welcome having a groinal response. “Feeling gay” doesn’t mean something in particular. It’s a feeling. naina June 22, 2014 at 6:43 am - Reply Hi jon I wanna ask some questions …why do all of my other obbsesions dont alarm me as much as hocd doesi mean that ive had pedophile and trangender obbsessions bt they never caused me as much as anxiety tat my homosexual obsessions do ….. And my ocd has moved on to another thing ever scince the recent demise of my father im obbsesed that another one of my family member will die so i have to count upto 12 five times over .. And why does my hocd revolve around my friends my mind keeps telling me that i love my best friend on a romantic way ..its so frustrating ive always had sisterly affections for her .. And uh one more thing whenever i feel extreme anxiety i start shaking so badly and i cant breathe properly .. This thing wasnt so bad until my father passed away . Now after the traumatic incident i had a full blown panic attack and i thought i was gonna die when my family rushed me to the emergency room where the docter diagnosed me with hyperventilation syndrome Idk whats wrong with me .. Plzz help .. im scared that il start hyperventilating in public where uts gonna be dead embarrasing ..:'(:'( Jonathan Hershfield July 3, 2014 at 2:00 pm - Reply >>>>I wanna ask some questions …why do all of my other obbsesions dont alarm me as much as hocd doesi mean that ive had pedophile and trangender obbsessions bt they never caused me as much as anxiety tat my homosexual obsessions do ….. —You are likely doing more compulsions in response to your thoughts about sexual orientation than in response to your other intrusive thoughts. >>>>And my ocd has moved on to another thing ever scince the recent demise of my father im obbsesed that another one of my family member will die so i have to count upto 12 five times over .. —Sorry for your loss. Counting compulsions are common in OCD. The first thing I would recommend is that you stop saying you “have to” count and instead acknowledge that you make the choice to count in order to relieve your discomfort with thoughts of your family. The problem is that the counting behavior only validates the idea that you have magic powers to protect family members, when you do not. >>>>And why does my hocd revolve around my friends my mind keeps telling me that i love my best friend on a romantic way ..its so frustrating ive always had sisterly affections for her .. —The OCD does whatever works. The thought that you could be sexually attracted to your friend makes you feel like you have to engage in rituals, which strengthen the OCD. >>>>And uh one more thing whenever i feel extreme anxiety i start shaking so badly and i cant breathe properly .. This thing wasnt so bad until my father passed away . Now after the traumatic incident i had a full blown panic attack and i thought i was gonna die when my family rushed me to the emergency room where the docter diagnosed me with hyperventilation syndrome Idk whats wrong with me .. Plzz help .. im scared that il start hyperventilating in public where uts gonna be dead embarrasing ..:’(:’( —-Sounds like panic disorder, which primarily consists of panic attacks and the fear of having panic attacks. It is treatable with CBT and sometimes medication. The first thing you need to be careful with is not avoiding public situations. Once you start avoiding, it can get progressively worse. Better to risk panic in public and embarrass yourself than isolate yourself from the world. john June 28, 2014 at 7:12 am - Reply hiee sir great article.i think im also suffering from same but some doubts.i have obsessions sex with family members children etcthat made me felt guilt.i was so terified by it.i remember i have one same sex experience in my childhood.which made me think im gay and my friend commented are you gay.i then started doing mentally checking am i aroused by men.whole day i used to search net learning about gays.i was terrified by it.my chilhood experience also made me terrified and feared that i might act upon it again.i had gronial responses seeing movies i was terrifies and went into depression.then i read your article and found that it is hocd. but i have 2 thoughts two thoughts discuss 1st-i admire mens look like nice hair style cool look smart. is this attraction i just admire them just thoughts 2nd-i got sensation in mouth i was disgussted by it but i felt i enjoying it.but then i think its totally illogical why am i thinking myself as gay. ive alaways loved girls girls are attracted to me im attracted to them.ive always been mad about them whole day i used to think about them.i always fantasy girls.i cannot imagine myself with guys.nor sex.but i read the word homophobia and denial now i doubt am denying or am i bisexual or gay.help me sir i waste my whole day serching net to reassue my self. Jonathan Hershfield July 3, 2014 at 2:04 pm - Reply You describe several symptoms of OCD and then appear to be asking reassurance about what is or is not attraction. I would recommend you admire what you admire and accept that you get sensations sometimes. As for spending all day searching the net, you will need to stop that compulsion in order to overcome your obsession. v July 23, 2014 at 5:28 am - Reply Hello Jon, thanks for your patience in listening to us prattle on about the same crap all the time!! I have made great progress via ERP, listening to a “worst case scenario” of realizing that I am a lesbian, pursuing a gay relationship and in the process destroying my relationship with my husband and children. As a result, my obsessions dwindled away and I felt a freedom I had not felt before, it was lovely. Prior to that, ever since I met my husband (20+ years ago), I always had this sense that I had to be “on my guard” against the evil gay monster in my head, just waiting in the wings to come and stuff everything around. Sounds bizarre!! I would try to “force” the thoughts away, and at my worst (some 10 years ago), would have to have a small photo of my husband on the dashboard of my car, which I would have to look at whilst driving so that I could keep my mind on him and not let my mind stray. OK to let my car stray all over the road, but don’t you dare let that mind stray, girl!! Anyway, I probably got too comfortable, and also my doc was so pleased with my progress that she cut down my meds, very slowly I might add, and about 6 weeks on being on a 1/4 of my original dose the thoughts started to slowly creep back in, and predictably I have taken the bait and reacted with sirens blaring and alarm bells ringing. What really worries me is that sometimes when I try to “let myself go”,I don’t feel as anxious, but I feel very very selfish and detached from my husband and children, quite robotic and definitely not present, like I don’t give a shit anymore and actually WANT to walk out on them all. Then the thought will come “how could you think such a thing???See??? THATS why you can’t be too careful, otherwise you will do something terrible and lose everything!!! It is like there is really something dark and self destructive inside that actually wants to stuff it up. And yet when I say to myself’ “OK, so if you want to leave, just do it then!”, it’s like I am screaming out to myself, “NOOOO!!! I don’t want to do that at all!”. What a nutjob! It’s actually almost funny to type it up and read it, it’s so silly. I just deal with this by trying to let the feeling be and get on with my day, but it is very scary. I pass women on the street, or in a car, and I don’t have to even see their faces, I just feel like I have to keep a small part of the thought of that woman in my head. It’s not even a sexual thought, but just thinking about them, wheras before I would need to force that thought out of my head and get my mind back on my husband, now I am just trying to let it be there and ignore it. But the fear is that the longer I let the thoughts of women remain in my head, the more I will turn into…you guessed it….a cane toad (joking, you know what I mean). A part of me wants to let the thoughts be there, feels almost like an addiction or something. What’s up with that?? I can’t help but wonder if those feelings are just tricks to try to get me to go back to hyper-control, because that’s how I felt safe before. Hmmm, food for thought. Any thoughts/ideas??? Jonathan Hershfield July 23, 2014 at 5:20 pm - Reply Hi V, though you mostly seem to have a good handle on what is going on, there seems to be a part of you clinging to the idea that the thoughts themselves are problematic and should be absent. The thoughts are in fact normal events that you are over-responding to, stirring up a cycle of obsessing and compulsing. You describe the thoughts as “creeping back in” as if they were blocked out and found a way to return through a secret entrance. The thoughts never left, nor should they have. They are thoughts. If you enjoy them, enjoy them whether they reflect your behavioral choices in life or not. If you do not enjoy them, then notice that and accept that you don’t get to pick and choose which thoughts pop up on your radar at any given time. Might as well invite it all and take the risk of accepting uncertainty. Catie July 25, 2014 at 4:16 pm - Reply Man, I hate the idea of having OCD or any diagnosis for that matter. But I go from therapist to therapist (have been since I was a teenager–talk about denial) and finally after like 14 years it’s beginning to sink in and I cry out of self pity that this is struggle is real. I am studying to get a counseling degree now myself and it’s been a big eye opener, particularly when you can look back through your parent’s generation and grandparent’s generation and start to put the pieces of the puzzle together that there are others who have anxiety and panic attacks and intrusive thoughts. Often, I’d go to the hospital with a panic attack feeling all nauseous, not being able to breathe right, thinking it was something else. My themes move around from a)I’m a pedophile (gotten over this one) to b) i’ve been sexually abused to c)I’m goign to harm my spouse or any potential future children to d)I’m a lesbian and need to leave my marriage to be true to myself and then all this pain will go away e)I have a disease (went to the doctors quite often begging them to test me and google ridiculously about all sorts of diseases). Doctors keep telling me it’s anxiety and they can only prescribe anxiety meds (which I rarely take despite them prescribing it to me) e)I’m really a man on the inside or have high testosterone levels so I’d check my voice, my finger length, hair growth on my body, etc. (I want to cry right now actually saying this) and f) when my therapist tells me this isn’t about my sexuality I don’t believe her. I think she just doesn’t accept me for who I am or understands me. G)I obsess about my relationship and think I’m in the wrong relationship, I’m with the wrong person, I’m too scared to leave, I’m afraid to be alone, I’m afraid I’m going to lose myself fin the relationship if I stay (etc. etc. etc.). (I’ll add that relationship anxiety follows me from one relationship to the next.). I’ve been to four therapists who all tell me the same thing…a)you have O.C.D. and anxiety and dependency issues. They really don’t seem to help me cope with the sexuality piece that matters to me so I just keep going from therapist to therapist. I’m not sure what to do at this point. I know im getting better cuz I did some ERP and went to LGBT support groups and conferences. I even read LGBT literature to help me. I admit I used to feel spiked whenever I saw people that looked gay but now I am doing much better about it. I know I am attracted to women and know I am on the spectrum. Likin women doesn’t scare me anymore and it doesn’t make me feel shame. So on some level the OCD is there and is real but on another, my sexuality is real too and I want certainty on all of it but I’m not sure what is the boundary line. I don’t want to deny who I am (which is a woman on the spectrum who is fluid) but I also don’t want to keep checking and ruminating about everything either. I’m not sure what to do. I just want the anxiety to go away and learn to trust myself and tolerate uncertainty. Jonathan Hershfield July 26, 2014 at 4:32 pm - Reply >>>>Man, I hate the idea of having OCD or any diagnosis for that matter. —Why? I would rather know that what I was going through was common, well-understood, and treatable. >>>>But I go from therapist to therapist (have been since I was a teenager–talk about denial) and finally after like 14 years it’s beginning to sink in and I cry out of self pity that this is struggle is real. I am studying to get a counseling degree now myself and it’s been a big eye opener, particularly when you can look back through your parent’s generation and grandparent’s generation and start to put the pieces of the puzzle together that there are others who have anxiety and panic attacks and intrusive thoughts. Often, I’d go to the hospital with a panic attack feeling all nauseous, not being able to breathe right, thinking it was something else. —That must have been scary. >>>>My themes move around from a)I’m a pedophile (gotten over this one) to b) i’ve been sexually abused to c)I’m goign to harm my spouse or any potential future children to d)I’m a lesbian and need to leave my marriage to be true to myself and then all this pain will go away e)I have a disease (went to the doctors quite often begging them to test me and google ridiculously about all sorts of diseases). —These are all very common OCD manifestations. >>>>Doctors keep telling me it’s anxiety and they can only prescribe anxiety meds (which I rarely take despite them prescribing it to me) —Why go for a psychiatric evaluation and not follow psychiatric advice? >>>> e)I’m really a man on the inside or have high testosterone levels so I’d check my voice, my finger length, hair growth on my body, etc. (I want to cry right now actually saying this) and f) when my therapist tells me this isn’t about my sexuality I don’t believe her. I think she just doesn’t accept me for who I am or understands me. —It sounds like your therapist is using reassurance as a strategy, which is ineffective for OCD and typically makes things worse. >>>>G)I obsess about my relationship and think I’m in the wrong relationship, I’m with the wrong person, I’m too scared to leave, I’m afraid to be alone, I’m afraid I’m going to lose myself fin the relationship if I stay (etc. etc. etc.). (I’ll add that relationship anxiety follows me from one relationship to the next.). I’ve been to four therapists who all tell me the same thing…a)you have O.C.D. and anxiety and dependency issues. They really don’t seem to help me cope with the sexuality piece that matters to me so I just keep going from therapist to therapist. —Sorry you’re having difficulty finding a therapist who’s a good fit for you. >>>>I’m not sure what to do at this point. I know im getting better cuz I did some ERP and went to LGBT support groups and conferences. I even read LGBT literature to help me. I admit I used to feel spiked whenever I saw people that looked gay but now I am doing much better about it. I know I am attracted to women and know I am on the spectrum. Likin women doesn’t scare me anymore and it doesn’t make me feel shame. So on some level the OCD is there and is real but on another, my sexuality is real too and I want certainty on all of it but I’m not sure what is the boundary line. I don’t want to deny who I am (which is a woman on the spectrum who is fluid) but I also don’t want to keep checking and ruminating about everything either. I’m not sure what to do. I just want the anxiety to go away and learn to trust myself and tolerate uncertainty. —Sounds like your heart is in the right place. I would emphasize the uncertainty tolerance over the anxiety reduction. If the focus is on changing the way you feel, you are likely to do compulsions. If the focus is on addressing behavior (as in choosing behaviors that reflect a person who accept uncertainty), you will see better results. For people who experience attractions to both the opposite and same sex and accept this, the OCD can still make you feel like you need certainty about where you fall on the spectrum. You don’t. In fact, what you need is to never know and instead become adept at accepting your thoughts and feelings as they come and go. Catie July 25, 2014 at 4:23 pm - Reply I’m scared to do this OCD work cuz I do’nt think I have it. I’m not scared to do the LGBT work. I’m good with facing that. Like I feel proud to be on the spectrum and I identify as bisexual. I’m proud to not be like everybody else. l add that when my therapist tells me this isn’t about my sexuality (She’s a vet in the field for 35 years and specializes in sexuality but I still tell her it is about it but she says “you like to go there and ruminate you are gay and have to leave your marriage but I do’nt think your issues are about that). But I still know that’s not totally true. Yet what she says mirrors what all the other therapists say so I’m not sure what to do at this point. I’ll add that both my mom and grandma go to the hospital with panic attacks too and they never think it’s a panic attack so i tend to believ ethem and think it’s something else and just don’t believe the doctors. but now it’s starting to sink in for me and my mom too (who is finally goign to a therapist at 60). so maybe there is an issue of ocd. Jonathan Hershfield July 26, 2014 at 4:36 pm - Reply >>>>I’m scared to do this OCD work cuz I do’nt think I have it. —That’s somewhat inconsistent from your earlier post in which you described having almost every OCD symptom I have ever heard of. >>>>I’m not scared to do the LGBT work. I’m good with facing that. Like I feel proud to be on the spectrum and I identify as bisexual. I’m proud to not be like everybody else. —-Great! >>>l add that when my therapist tells me this isn’t about my sexuality (She’s a vet in the field for 35 years and specializes in sexuality but I still tell her it is about it but she says “you like to go there and ruminate you are gay and have to leave your marriage but I do’nt think your issues are about that). But I still know that’s not totally true. Yet what she says mirrors what all the other therapists say so I’m not sure what to do at this point. —If you want to treat the OCD, the best approach would be to do exposure of some kind to your fear that sexuality issues are being poorly addressed and may have negative consequences you may have to cope with. This could probably be done with imaginal exposure scripts, but also needs to include the elimination of reassurance-seeking with your therapist and others. >>>>I’ll add that both my mom and grandma go to the hospital with panic attacks too and they never think it’s a panic attack so i tend to believ ethem and think it’s something else and just don’t believe the doctors. but now it’s starting to sink in for me and my mom too (who is finally goign to a therapist at 60). so maybe there is an issue of ocd. —Yeah, maybe. If you’re feeling stuck, usually that means it is time to try something different. That something-different may be owning your OCD diagnosis and treating it. Catie July 25, 2014 at 4:28 pm - Reply I got over the pedophile one too with ERP cuz of babysitting my niece and nephews and godson a lot. i mean i had lots of triggers in the beginnign but it seemed to move to another theme for me. I’m not saying this doens’t come back from time to time but it’s gone away for now. That was really the proof that i knew i had OCD cuz i actually believe the thoughts. but hocd? That’ snot something I believe i have but yet i obsess about it. odd cuz i’m bisexual so it’s confusing for me. Jonathan Hershfield July 26, 2014 at 4:38 pm - Reply If I understand correctly, you seem to be implying that you can’t be bisexual and have OCD at the same time. This is untrue. You have an obsession about your sexual orientation, whatever words you want to use to label it, and you engage in compulsions to feel certain that your definition of orientation is accurate or appropriately related to somehow. Michelle May 5, 2015 at 4:21 am - Reply First, thank you so much for the work that you do and the helping hand/support you give to others. So this anxiety/thoughts/doubt has never fully left. It seemed to be manageable for a bit. Or maybe just other things took over along with some depressive moods. But my anxiety and doubt around “what if/maybe I am bisexual” has been triggered by a coworker at a new job who I know is female dating a female. I find I am anxious and doubting/trying to figure out if I am attracted to her? Or maybe I am and the anxiety is just mixing me up? I sense my anxiety waa triggered more when I found out she is dating a women. But I can’t be sure. I can’t figure out if there was a “I could be with her/date her” attraction before or just an “I think she’s cool and we get along”. I definitely find i keep trying to imagine if i would enjoy doing relationship/sexual stuff with her and while most of the time I conclude no, i doubt that answer anyways. Then other times I try to just take a mindful/accepting approach towards ” maybe it is an attraction (or crush) and i can deal with it and I still want to be with my bf” but I still get anxiety, I still get doubt and I still get so preoccupied with this in my head. Part of me feels that before this anxiety/doubt about my sexual orientation hit I could acknowledge that she is an attractive woman and that would be that. No anxiety. But now the fact that I do notice and that she is a,bisexual or lesbian, actually causes me more anxiety. And then a ton of questions run through my head like “Does it mean there is more potential for me to be attracted to her because she in fact is bisexual or lesbian?” “If this piece has caused me more anxiety, why?” I even get, maybe an intrusive feeling but also the thought “what if she can sense I am attracted to her (or bisexual/lesbian) and can tell I just haven’t accepted it yet or am denying?”. And a whole wack of other questions/thoughts. I have had days (mainly not at work) where I seem to think and feel that its not a sexual attraction but then I doubt “maybe this is just part of sexual fluidity and I am awakening to a same sex attraction”. Does it make sense if I say this anxiety/doubt stuff sometimes feels like its this whole other world, this whole other me. But then other times it just feels like it IS me and if I could just settle the doubt/anxiety everything would be okay? I also feel so fed up and stuck with this. To the point that I really doubt who I ever was and am. Like how do I know the REAL me and the GENUINE me? How do i know the real me has been attracted to and interested in my bf this whole time if I doubt so much? Sometimes I can’t even figure out what attraction is. And i ask my bf and he ” just knows” so it causes me more doubt. Times like this I do wish I could just be with my lovely bf without all this doubt. I keep looking up therapists in my region but can’t seem to follow through with contacting them. So many “what ifs” go through my head. If I were to get assessed and get treatment (and what if they just send me off thinking I’m in denial?) And get CBT at the minimum but realize I have true attraction to women, would the CBT still help with the anxiety I feel and at the least to find clarity? Like I wouldn’t be denying a part of myself (if it were attraction and not anxiety) if I did do CBT? Michelle May 5, 2015 at 4:40 am - Reply I want to add that it’s not just the fact that this coworker is an attractive woman (or that I find her attractive – I have always been able acknowledge women are attractive without doubting what it means) that spikes my anxiety. But in the mix I also keep questioning and trying to figure out if I am attracted TO her personality and TO her or if its just that I have noticed that I think she is cool and find that she has a cool personality, like I could with anyone else and before this major anxiety/doubt. Is this just a way to find certainty? I don’t if this is an attraction to her but it has caused me a lot of anxiety. To my best certainty I do not recall having felt an attraction, or more so a sexual attraction, FOR a woman before this anxiety. I know you can’t give me the answer or what it all means. But if its true that I may have to deal with anxiety/doubt (I dont know if irs OCD) AND an awakening to an attraction to women, would CBT still help? Jon Hershfield May 5, 2015 at 4:47 pm - Reply You would be best suited identifying your attempts to know for certain what KIND of attraction it is as a compulsion. CBT from an OCD specialist would help you better identify and resist compulsions. Jon Hershfield May 5, 2015 at 4:45 pm - Reply >>>>First, thank you so much for the work that you do and the helping hand/support you give to others. So this anxiety/thoughts/doubt has never fully left. It seemed to be manageable for a bit. Or maybe just other things took over along with some depressive moods. But my anxiety and doubt around “what if/maybe I am bisexual” has been triggered by a coworker at a new job who I know is female dating a female. I find I am anxious and doubting/trying to figure out if I am attracted to her? Or maybe I am and the anxiety is just mixing me up? —-Trying to figure out what you’re attracted to is what’s mixing you up. >>>>I sense my anxiety waa triggered more when I found out she is dating a women. But I can’t be sure. I can’t figure out if there was a “I could be with her/date her” attraction before or just an “I think she’s cool and we get along”. —Why is it important to know the difference for certain? >>>>I definitely find i keep trying to imagine if i would enjoy doing relationship/sexual stuff with her and while most of the time I conclude no, i doubt that answer anyways. —This is a compulsion I refer to as “scenario bending” in The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD. >>>>Then other times I try to just take a mindful/accepting approach towards ” maybe it is an attraction (or crush) and i can deal with it and I still want to be with my bf” but I still get anxiety, I still get doubt and I still get so preoccupied with this in my head. —It would be helpful is stopped framing success as the absence of anxiety. Anxiety is a normal human emption that people experience from time to time, made worse primarily by attempts not to feel it. >>>>Part of me feels that before this anxiety/doubt about my sexual orientation hit I could acknowledge that she is an attractive woman and that would be that. No anxiety. But now the fact that I do notice and that she is a,bisexual or lesbian, actually causes me more anxiety. And then a ton of questions run through my head like “Does it mean there is more potential for me to be attracted to her because she in fact is bisexual or lesbian?” “If this piece has caused me more anxiety, why?” I even get, maybe an intrusive feeling but also the thought “what if she can sense I am attracted to her (or bisexual/lesbian) and can tell I just haven’t accepted it yet or am denying?”. And a whole wack of other questions/thoughts. I have had days (mainly not at work) where I seem to think and feel that its not a sexual attraction but then I doubt “maybe this is just part of sexual fluidity and I am awakening to a same sex attraction”. Does it make sense if I say this anxiety/doubt stuff sometimes feels like its this whole other world, this whole other me. But then other times it just feels like it IS me and if I could just settle the doubt/anxiety everything would be okay? —Yes, that’s what it feels like to have OCD and be stuck on something. You are doing in your head what some people do by washing their hands a lot. >>>>I also feel so fed up and stuck with this. To the point that I really doubt who I ever was and am. Like how do I know the REAL me and the GENUINE me? How do i know the real me has been attracted to and interested in my bf this whole time if I doubt so much? Sometimes I can’t even figure out what attraction is. And i ask my bf and he ” just knows” so it causes me more doubt. Times like this I do wish I could just be with my lovely bf without all this doubt. I keep looking up therapists in my region but can’t seem to follow through with contacting them. So many “what ifs” go through my head. If I were to get assessed and get treatment (and what if they just send me off thinking I’m in denial?) And get CBT at the minimum but realize I have true attraction to women, would the CBT still help with the anxiety I feel and at the least to find clarity? Like I wouldn’t be denying a part of myself (if it were attraction and not anxiety) if I did do CBT? —CBT combines the approach of challenging distorted ways of thinking (cognitive) with modifying unhelpful behaviors to be helpful (behavioral). I’m not sure if your question has an answer, but at a guess I would presume that what you are seeking is some kind of clarity, which is really only attainable when you stop doing compulsions and entertaining all of these “what-ifs” in your head. CBT can do that. Miguel June 2, 2015 at 6:06 am - Reply Hello Jon, I’ve done a ton of research on OCD this past year and I would say you’re articles are the most insightful I’ve read thus far. I’ve never been “formally” diagnosed, but I’ve had OCD since I was younger and my brother pointed it out while watching an episode of MTV’s “True Life” based on the disorder. I began with compulsions,like bending my middle fingers on the table and rolling my eyes back and saying “I believe in the De-God!” almost like a battle between good an bad in my head. I would be on the verge of saying “The Devil” but ultimately God triumphed. I would run upstairs to my room where I had a crucifix over my headboard and in a similar fashion, but kneeling would utter “THANK YOU GOOOOOOOOD” at the top of my lungs. To this day, I have strange instances where out of nowhere i feel the need to dart my eyes towards all the religious objects in my room and perform this ritual. I would also hate the idea or mention of death related themes. For the longest I would avoid saying things like my phone battery “died” . To me the battery had simply ran out and I would ask people to “take it back” as in take back the phrase “died”. When I went away to college my OCD just disappeared out of thin air. I was fine until I stumbled upon my first ever real relationship about a year ago. My girlfriend had made a remark like “that’s so gay” and that’s really what set the motion going of my current sexuality obsessed OCD spectrum. I’ve never experienced groinal response or any of the other severe symptoms like thoughts of suicide, for me it’s been most endless ruminations and examining myself and other to see if I give off “gay” cues or if there are people that “seem” gay based off there appearance and can see something in me that I fail to see. It also seems like I’m also obsessed with the outcome of my relationship. I literally search OCD related material damn near every day, and I believe it has become a compulsion. It actually seems like my obsessions are gravitating away from my sexuality, and I have just become obsessed with the idea of obsessing, if that makes any form of sense? I’ve purchased your Mindfulness book but I have yet to actually utilize it, so far the techniques I’ve picked up from various resources have helped me cope, or atleast calm my obsessions. I guess what I’m really writing to ask you is, if your personal OCD ever delved in to your sexuality and your experiences with it and what were other spectrums of OCD that you personally had to battle with? I find it pretty damn cool that you were able to make the transition from sufferer to healer, and that your work especially has really made me consider working with OCD patients. Jon Hershfield June 18, 2015 at 4:45 pm - Reply Glad you find my blog pieces helpful and I hope you benefit from The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD too! I’m not clear why you knowing the personal details of my OCD history will help though. Let’s just presume I’ve had a wide variety of interesting thoughts and have learned through CBT how best to relate to them. Miguel June 2, 2015 at 6:22 am - Reply Also, one strange spike I forgot to mention. My full name is Miguel Mares, I have a fraternity brother named Michael Maris, I’ve never met the guy I only know his name and that he use to date girls in college but came out as gay when he graduated. I was told I had similar personality traits to him and similarities in our name really set the ball rolling and made me paranoid that I was secretely gay and had no clue. This is strange to me because I don’t know anything about this guy besides those details and they set my paranoia on high, especially the name similarity. I guess my mind takes on a “History repeats itself” sort of fear. The ironic thing is I share the same name as my father yet my mind skips over this and jumps to things my OCD gets worked up about Jon Hershfield June 18, 2015 at 4:46 pm - Reply Sounds like you are personalizing a thing that happened to another person to have something to do with what you imagine could happen to you. Christy June 10, 2015 at 3:31 pm - Reply Hi Jon, I have been dealing with hood for a very long time but had a nice two year break after doing about a year of erp and mindfulness. However, my hocd came back recently after going off meds and getting pregnant with my 2nd baby. I’m managing pretty well and trying to use mindfulness techniques, and find that it comes and goes, but it is still very much “here”. I think about it every day and wake up with it every morning. Some days are better (mostly when my mind has come to the resolution to “just be” and not judge any thoughts/feelings) but other times I struggle with it during the day trying to find the way to “let it go”. For instance, I was doing really well and then saw a blogger Ingrid Nilsen came out yesterday and I just can’t stop thinking about it! I know I need to be tolerant of spikes and keep chugging along, I sometimes just feel so exhausted by it all. I want to feel like my old self again where I’m not constantly worried and wondering when this will go away! I’m not sure I want to go back to doing all the erp again since I have literally done every erp possible (2 years ago), and have found great benefit from mindfulness. But I find that my brain just won’t let me be mindful like it used to! Thanks for any insight! PS – I actually did a Skype session with you a fee years back and it was immensely helpful 🙂 Jon Hershfield June 18, 2015 at 4:33 pm - Reply The thing to remember with triggers like these is that you are predisposed to personalizing events that relate to your obsession. A person you don’t know having an experience you don’t have and doing a thing you haven’t done is giving us very little information to get upset about unless you tell yourself it’s some kind of sign. You may have to accept that the thought “this is a sign” may come and go at various points and your job is simply to make room for it as it passes through. George June 26, 2015 at 6:32 am - Reply >>>>First, thank you so much for the work that you do and the helping hand/support you give to others Hellor Dr. Hershfield (Sorry for the bad English and the long comment) I know I like women since the moment I had memory but I got hooked to pornography at 13 and around 15 -16 started to watch transsexual porn (Trans-female first) and after every session I would felt disgusted, depressed, guilty, frightened, anxious, and angry for everything and everyone (Didn’t realize it was HOCD or OCD I didn’t know such thing could exist). Then at 20 years old (I am 22) I got bored with the porn and decided to watch gay porn (I thought it would be the same thing and I was “secure” that I was straight), after 2 videos I had panic attack and I began to analyze each feeling/emotion than I could remembered and every video since I started watch porn. My HOCD got so bad that I could not sleep sometimes and I started to weep and pray to god for forgiveness (I don’t have anything against homosexual people) Then I developed POCD because I discovered fictional sexual stories and within them there is a lot of stories with underage characters (male and female, I GET DEPRESSED AND ASHAMED EVERY TIME I REMEMBER). I stop watching ANY kind of gay porn for almost 2 years but I never stop questioning why I watched all that stuff (feeling anxious and frightened and re-checking with straight porn) But 4 months ago I began to read these stories again (POCD) because i thought that it would be a good idea to check and discover why I got hooked in the first place. All my life I struggled with OCD (Didn’t know it exist until December of last year, I thought question and re-check everything 20 times it was normal) I had ED in my first time with a woman (due anxiety to find “answers” and shame for being overweight, she was a prostitute) and I am scared of doing it again because of ED. I feel “stuck”, “jammed”, hopeless and I feel that nothing is worth it if I am gay or bisexual because I like girls all my life I had a lot of crushes in kinder, elementary, university (anime in high school because due economic reasons I changed to a male-only school but never felt anything for my classmates apart from be friends. And because my shyness (overweight) only got had 2 friends) I have had so many fantasies about being in shape and lure women, have a girlfriend, a wife, even have friends with benefits (with girls) or “one night stand” with different girls (you know the alpha male fantasies). i don’t want to believe or feel that all that was just a lie. Jon Hershfield June 28, 2015 at 9:58 pm - Reply George, thanks for your comment. Though you describe a terrible fear of being gay which may very well be OCD, it sounds like your overall relationship to sex and pornography has been unhealthy and you would benefit from psychotherapy to address this, besides getting treatment for your OCD. You give examples of compulsive behavior commonly found in OCD (e.g. checking your reaction to pornographic stories to see how you react), but also examples of sexually impulsive behavior and risk-taking (e.g. engaging with prostitutes, porn addiction of increasingly stimulating content…). I would recommend professional help for both of these related and somewhat separate issues. Mike July 15, 2015 at 2:03 pm - Reply I apologize, in advance, for the length of this post. Ever since I can remember I have loved girls. My first crush was when I was in kindergarten for a girl. When I was in grade 6 I started to watch Latin Lover, a Spanish softcore porn show late at night about hot women having sex with each other and with men. I would get so turned on by it and I didn’t masturbate to it because I did not know how to. Anyway when I was 4-8 I was sexually abused by a boy older than me and then I guess I acted this out on other boys my age but I still liked girls. When I got older I got into straight porn and liked it, it turned me on so much. Then I later started watching gay porn and got turned on by it and began to watch it more than straight porn (high school). One day I tried watching straight porn but then I noticed that I was not able to jack off to it anymore. I became afraid and scared that I became gay and was only able to masturbate to gay porn. Later in high school I took myself away from gay porn for two years and only masturbate to straight and lesbian. However I was still afraid of being gay. I avoided watching the men in straight porn, I was afraid of getting turned on by guys. I go on various websites to prove to myself that Im straight and I read hocd blogs every night. Whenever people talked about homosexuality I got scared that they were talking about me and I was afraid that my same sex experimentation was part of my anxiety. Now Hocd has come back in full force. I cannot masturbate to women as much anymore. Straight porn does not turn me on as much as it used to. I monitor my voice to see if I sound gay and I check out men to prove if I’m gay and I check out women too. Although I still like women, I feel like a I’ve lost some attraction to them and I can barely get a boner to thoughts of them anymore. I’ve started to look at gay porn to check my arousal but now I get aroused by it again and I started to masturbate to it again and I feel disgusted about it. I left high school recently and I am so scared about this. I keep checking with men and women. Now I’m scared to have sex with a girl because I’m afraid that I won’t be aroused. About a week ago, I had a gay thought and I couldn’t get it out of my head. I was so anxious and then I decided to look at gay porn again. When I looked at it, I became semi-erect and noticed that I had developed some pre-cum, faster than I normally do when watching straight porn. I became so scared and my stomach began hurting and my head felt uneasy because of this. I masturbated to the gay porn and then I felt guilty afterwards and looked for websites to explain why this happens to me each time I get a gay thought. This cycle of self-doubt and masturation to gay porn occurs at least once every month. Am I gay or do I have HOCD? Jon Hershfield July 16, 2015 at 6:20 pm - Reply >>>>I apologize, in advance, for the length of this post. Ever since I can remember I have loved girls. My first crush was when I was in kindergarten for a girl. When I was in grade 6 I started to watch Latin Lover, a Spanish softcore porn show late at night about hot women having sex with each other and with men. I would get so turned on by it and I didn’t masturbate to it because I did not know how to. Anyway when I was 4-8 I was sexually abused by a boy older than me and then I guess I acted this out on other boys my age but I still liked girls. —Sorry you had to endure such a trauma. The acting out you describe is a common response. >>>When I got older I got into straight porn and liked it, it turned me on so much. Then I later started watching gay porn and got turned on by it and began to watch it more than straight porn (high school). One day I tried watching straight porn but then I noticed that I was not able to jack off to it anymore. I became afraid and scared that I became gay and was only able to masturbate to gay porn. Later in high school I took myself away from gay porn for two years and only masturbate to straight and lesbian. However I was still afraid of being gay. —Sounds like you have a history of hyper-sexuality and easily became addicted to the stimulation pornography (of any kind) provides. >>>>I avoided watching the men in straight porn, I was afraid of getting turned on by guys. I go on various websites to prove to myself that Im straight and I read hocd blogs every night. Whenever people talked about homosexuality I got scared that they were talking about me and I was afraid that my same sex experimentation was part of my anxiety. —You are describing some common compulsive responses to fear of being gay. >>>>Now Hocd has come back in full force. I cannot masturbate to women as much anymore. Straight porn does not turn me on as much as it used to. I monitor my voice to see if I sound gay and I check out men to prove if I’m gay and I check out women too. —Yes, also very common compulsions. >>>Although I still like women, I feel like a I’ve lost some attraction to them and I can barely get a boner to thoughts of them anymore. I’ve started to look at gay porn to check my arousal but now I get aroused by it again and I started to masturbate to it again and I feel disgusted about it. I left high school recently and I am so scared about this. I keep checking with men and women. Now I’m scared to have sex with a girl because I’m afraid that I won’t be aroused. —All of this checking and reassurance seeking has to be ceased before you can get any clarity back. >>>About a week ago, I had a gay thought and I couldn’t get it out of my head. I was so anxious and then I decided to look at gay porn again. When I looked at it, I became semi-erect and noticed that I had developed some pre-cum, faster than I normally do when watching straight porn. I became so scared and my stomach began hurting and my head felt uneasy because of this. I masturbated to the gay porn and then I felt guilty afterwards and looked for websites to explain why this happens to me each time I get a gay thought. This cycle of self-doubt and masturation to gay porn occurs at least once every month. Am I gay or do I have HOCD? —I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment. What seems clear is that you have a fear of being gay that is somehow wrapped up in distorted beliefs about what it means that you can get off to gay fantasies. You’re engaging in a lot of compulsive behavior that only intensifies the power of your obsessive thoughts and the situation is made worse by an addictive or otherwise unhealthy relationship to pornography. This creates a complex issue that needs to be addressed in professional therapy. That being said, I would start with someone who is CBT oriented and well versed in OCD. If they are also trained in sexual impulsivity/addiction-related issues, that would be good, but you made need a different therapist for that. The most reassurance I can give you at this point without contributing to your obsession is that a lot of your behavior appears driven by a belief that what your penis does determines what your identity is and I disagree with that logic. Mike July 17, 2015 at 7:41 am - Reply Hi Jon, thank you so much for responding to my post. I still have some things I want to clarify. I want to add that I consider myself to be fairly liberal and I support gay rights, so I don’t think that I am homophobic or a bigot, is it still possible to have HOCD? Also, is it possible to be straight and to be able to masturbate to gay porn? Certain posters on yahoo answers, for example, do not think so, and when I read those responses I feel insecure. Do I have to quit pornography for my sexuality to sort itself out? When I look at pictures of nude women, it takes me a while to get an erection, but when I check pictures of men, I get an erection quicker and I get extremely anxious If you don’t mind I want to further explain the cycle of doubt I experience that honestly tears me apart. Every month or so, a gay thought will pop up and then I feel anxiety, and I decide to masturbate to gay porn. It’ll usually be triggered by seeing a man on tv or something. When this happens I experience more arousal than normal straight porn, which creates more anxiety for me. When I go to masturbate, my legs feel shaky, my heart beats quickly, and my head hurts. After the deed is done, I don’t feel happy. Then I proceed to do the same thing two more times in the same day to rid myself of the thoughts, I guess. Then a day or so afterwards, I’ll feel more confident that I’m straight and wonder why I ever doubted my sexuality, and then go back to straight porn. There will be days where my arousal to straight porn is very strong and then days where it is weak, and then I feel anxious. The problem is that I am so tired of this monthly cycle of self-doubt. Whenever I watch straight porn I feel like I can’t truly enjoy, or like I’m scared that I won’t be aroused, and I get weaker erections. I still feel drawn to attractive women, in real life, but if I see an attractive man, I’ll have to make sure that I don’t like him. I know you’ve suggested therapy, but I don’t have the means to do so currently. Can you please suggest some ways for me to begin to help myself combat this nightmare? I truly do not want my college years to be ruined by this. Thank you. Jon Hershfield July 18, 2015 at 8:54 pm - Reply >>>>Hi Jon, thank you so much for responding to my post. I still have some things I want to clarify. I want to add that I consider myself to be fairly liberal and I support gay rights, so I don’t think that I am homophobic or a bigot, is it still possible to have HOCD? —Giving me more detail and then asking me the same question again should be considered a compulsion. >>>Also, is it possible to be straight and to be able to masturbate to gay porn? Certain posters on yahoo answers, for example, do not think so, and when I read those responses I feel insecure. —Probably true for some people and not true for others but can’t see how the ability to get off to something would be an indicator of orientation unless your understanding of sexuality is very simplistic. >>>>Do I have to quit pornography for my sexuality to sort itself out? When I look at pictures of nude women, it takes me a while to get an erection, but when I check pictures of men, I get an erection quicker and I get extremely anxious —You figuring out your sexuality and you taking control of your OCD (the drive for certainty) are somewhat separate issues. Yes, you will probably have to address your relationship to pornography before expecting to better understand your sexual identity. >>>If you don’t mind I want to further explain the cycle of doubt I experience that honestly tears me apart. Every month or so, a gay thought will pop up and then I feel anxiety, and I decide to masturbate to gay porn. —So you either have to consider that you have an impulse control issue that drives you to masturbate in response to simply having a thought about something or you have to accept that some part of you simply enjoys the expression of gay sexuality. Or both. >>>>It’ll usually be triggered by seeing a man on tv or something. When this happens I experience more arousal than normal straight porn, which creates more anxiety for me. When I go to masturbate, my legs feel shaky, my heart beats quickly, and my head hurts. After the deed is done, I don’t feel happy. —I’m not an expert in sexuality or sexual addiction, but what you are describing here sounds like a problematic relationship to masturbation that needs to be addressed with professional help. I don’t think it defines your orientation, but it doesn’t sound healthy or happy, which is what sex and masturbation is meant to be. >>>>Then I proceed to do the same thing two more times in the same day to rid myself of the thoughts, I guess. —Then this is a straightforward compulsion and something you need to stop if you expect the obsession to improve. >>>>Then a day or so afterwards, I’ll feel more confident that I’m straight and wonder why I ever doubted my sexuality, and then go back to straight porn. There will be days where my arousal to straight porn is very strong and then days where it is weak, and then I feel anxious. The problem is that I am so tired of this monthly cycle of self-doubt. Whenever I watch straight porn I feel like I can’t truly enjoy, or like I’m scared that I won’t be aroused, and I get weaker erections. I still feel drawn to attractive women, in real life, but if I see an attractive man, I’ll have to make sure that I don’t like him. —No, you don’t “have to make sure” of anything ever. You choose to engage in compulsive behaviors that you think are going to “make you sure” and they ultimately make the situation worse than if you simply accepted uncertainty about your fears. They may not be easy or happy chpices, but they are behavioral choices that are under your control. >>>>I know you’ve suggested therapy, but I don’t have the means to do so currently. Can you please suggest some ways for me to begin to help myself combat this nightmare? I truly do not want my college years to be ruined by this. —You describe being impaired by a mental health issue that is complex and causing you pain. You may need to figure out a way to prioritize professional help. If you have no financial means for any kind of treatment, then you might see what services are provided by your college. There are several books about sexual and porn addiction, but I am not familiar with them. There are also several excellent self-cbt workbooks for OCD, but I think you need to concurrently address the compulsive masturbation. In terms of the OCD alone, and in short, you have to stop trying to prove what you are, accept uncertainty, and simply be what you are in each given moment. Mike July 29, 2015 at 10:48 pm Thanks so much for dealing with my questions, Dr. Hershfield. Over the past few days my anxiety has lessened somewhat and I’ve realized that I have a problem with attaining certainty in various parts of my life. However, I still am not entirely sure how to respond to thoughts that provide me with severe anxiety. Do I try to ignore the thoughts or do I just tell myself that its HOCD causing the thoughts? And my final question is: is there a way to alleviate performance anxiety with straight porn and sex. Although I have not had any urges to watch gay porn, sometimes I feel scared that I wont be able to masturbate to straight porn and then I either am not able to masturbate or I do masturbate, but it consists of me checking my arousal and trying to ignore the man in the porn. Also, will I eventually have to expose myself to gay porn once again? Lastly, I will heed your advice and seek help in my college in the fall. Jon Hershfield August 8, 2015 at 1:33 am >>>>Thanks so much for dealing with my questions, Dr. Hershfield. Over the past few days my anxiety has lessened somewhat and I’ve realized that I have a problem with attaining certainty in various parts of my life. However, I still am not entirely sure how to respond to thoughts that provide me with severe anxiety. Do I try to ignore the thoughts or do I just tell myself that its HOCD causing the thoughts? —Both. You acknowledge that these are the thoughts going through your head and you choose to attend to things of greater value than your thoughts. >>>And my final question is: is there a way to alleviate performance anxiety with straight porn and sex. Although I have not had any urges to watch gay porn, sometimes I feel scared that I wont be able to masturbate to straight porn and then I either am not able to masturbate or I do masturbate, but it consists of me checking my arousal and trying to ignore the man in the porn. Also, will I eventually have to expose myself to gay porn once again? —Gay porn sometimes serves a function as part of a planned ERP approach, but I would never describe it as “necessary.” If you think it is necessary, then it is probably a checking/testing compulsion. As for anxiety associated with the sexual expression of your preferred orientation, the key is mindful acceptance of the present moment and not trying to control what arouses you or doesn’t. Jack September 2, 2015 at 10:26 pm - Reply Hello, Dr. Hershfield. I just wanted to thank you, because your work has really helped me improve with my HOCD. My anxiety has really lessened, but I still obsess a lot in terms of thoughts and groinal responses (I think that’s the worst part, because having an erection towards the gender you think you don’t like still seems, in my mind, like “good evidence” though I simply HATE it when it happens). I guess my worst problem, however, is not knowing for sure and not accepting uncertainty for good. So I’m trying to write an imaginal exposure for that and listen to it until the thoughts go away (it doesn’t cause me a lot of anxiety, just great worry and rumination). Would you mind analyzing the short “confession” I created to see if I’m doing it right? I appreciate your time. Jon Hershfield September 4, 2015 at 1:51 am - Reply Glad the articles have been helpful. First thing, you have to get rid of the notion that your objective is to get the thoughts to stop. That keeps the OCD in place. The goal is to change your relationship to the thoughts such that you see them as normal events, not threats that need to be analyzed or neutralized. Thoughts You have lots of them. As for what gets blood flowing to your junk, you have to stop treating that like it’s some sort of arbiter of truth. Either it means you get turned on by all kinds of things (and so what?) or it means you get unwanted erections for random reasons (and so what?). Accepting uncertainty doesn’t mean accepting the loss of your sexual identity. It just means committing to focusing on the things you actually value in life. You accept the uncertainty that your computer could blow up in your face by committing to your interest in this post. If you want to send me your script, no problem. Cara September 4, 2015 at 3:45 pm - Reply Hello, Thank you for this amazing article. I am a 21 years old female from Poland so sorry for any grammar mistakes. I’ve been diagnosed with HOCD and my therapist’s prescribed me some medications and only mentioned CB Therapy. I don’t know if she’s planning to do that. I want to ask you a few questions. I am a virgin and never had a boyfriend, which seems pretty weird, but I’ve always waited for “the one” and now I doubt that “the one” even exists. But I’ve always dreamed about boys in my puberty and then about man in my adulthood. I’ve had many crushes, even crushed on my almost boss (I didn’t get the job). I’ve never crushed on girls. Even now I don’t, but my HOCD makes me think that every girl is attractive and I feel so anxious, because I don’t find guys attractive anymore. Is it possible that I became lesbian? I don’t want to be with a woman, it’s not my nature, I don’t even mention sex because it seems gross, but my HOCD tells me: you want it. And I don’t know what to think. I’ve never watched lesbian porn and when I cool down I know I’m not gay but still feel anxious and want to come back to my life, like watching tv, reading books (I love reading books), going out with friends without anxiety that I can see some woman and fall in love with her (like what). I want to fall asleep without the thoughts, becuse I used to imagine myself in some man’s arms before sleep and now falling asleep is jus a battle. Sometimes I doubt it’s HOCD and thinking about being lesbian and I accept it and then again feel anxious and tell myself I’ not gay – it’s awful. Is it HOCD? How can I be sure having no sexual encounters in my past? Has every HOCD sufferer that “denial phase” or backdoor spikes? Can I be gay not knowing it my whole life and always crushed on boys? I want my life back, I used to like the way I look, comparing myself to other girls, admiring beauty I could see in everyone. Now I can’t do it without innuendo and anxiety. And I’m scared of sex too now, and men, and everything. And what’s scaring me the most: I could have a boyfriend, there is someone in my life, but I just don’t have no feelings toward him. I’m not attracted to him, I never was. And my HOCD tells me that it’s because I’m lesbian in denial. There were other guys, they were trying to hit on me but I just didn’t feel attracted to them. If you’ll read this, thank you. I really appreciate it. And sorry that it is so long. Wish you all the best Jon Hershfield September 5, 2015 at 2:52 pm - Reply >>>>Hello, Thank you for this amazing article. I am a 21 years old female from Poland so sorry for any grammar mistakes. I’ve been diagnosed with HOCD and my therapist’s prescribed me some medications and only mentioned CB Therapy. I don’t know if she’s planning to do that. I want to ask you a few questions. I am a virgin and never had a boyfriend, which seems pretty weird, —Just because your experience is different from those you compare yourself to, doesn’t mean yours is weird. >>>but I’ve always waited for “the one” and now I doubt that “the one” even exists. —Depends on your definition of THE, which may or may not be realistic. >>>>But I’ve always dreamed about boys in my puberty and then about man in my adulthood. I’ve had many crushes, even crushed on my almost boss (I didn’t get the job). I’ve never crushed on girls. Even now I don’t, but my HOCD makes me think that every girl is attractive and I feel so anxious, because I don’t find guys attractive anymore. Is it possible that I became lesbian? —I don’t know. But I wouldn’t use the awareness of attractiveness in women or ambivalence in attraction toward men as particularly meaningful evidence of anything. >>>I don’t want to be with a woman, it’s not my nature, I don’t even mention sex because it seems gross, but my HOCD tells me: you want it. And I don’t know what to think. I’ve never watched lesbian porn and when I cool down I know I’m not gay but still feel anxious and want to come back to my life, like watching tv, reading books (I love reading books), going out with friends without anxiety that I can see some woman and fall in love with her (like what). I want to fall asleep without the thoughts, becuse I used to imagine myself in some man’s arms before sleep and now falling asleep is jus a battle. —The problem with trying to control your thoughts is that it always leads to spending more time attending to unwanted thoughts than preferred ones. >>>>Sometimes I doubt it’s HOCD and thinking about being lesbian and I accept it and then again feel anxious and tell myself I’ not gay – it’s awful. Is it HOCD? How can I be sure having no sexual encounters in my past? Has every HOCD sufferer that “denial phase” or backdoor spikes? Can I be gay not knowing it my whole life and always crushed on boys? I want my life back, I used to like the way I look, comparing myself to other girls, admiring beauty I could see in everyone. Now I can’t do it without innuendo and anxiety. And I’m scared of sex too now, and men, and everything. And what’s scaring me the most: I could have a boyfriend, there is someone in my life, but I just don’t have no feelings toward him. I’m not attracted to him, I never was. And my HOCD tells me that it’s because I’m lesbian in denial. There were other guys, they were trying to hit on me but I just didn’t feel attracted to them. If you’ll read this, thank you. I really appreciate it. And sorry that it is so long. Wish you all the best —Again, by trying to control your thoughts and feelings, you are only making the more upsetting ones more intrusive. I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment, but it is clear that you are spending significant amounts of time analyzing, neutralizing, and otherwise responding compulsively to unwanted thoughts of being some sexual orientation other than what you identify with. So rather than trying to be certain you have OCD, I would recommend seeing what happens when you approach the subject as if it is OCD anyway. I don’t know what resources you have for CBT where you are, but perhaps your psychiatrist can make a referral or you could try to employ the use of a workbook for OCD. Cara September 5, 2015 at 6:08 pm - Reply Thank you for your response Dr. Hershfield. It seems like I’m loosing my mind actually. I have few more questions, sorry about that. Do you think some people, who have always desired people of the opposite sex can suddenly turn gay/lesbian? Because for me it’s pretty weird. Like I’ve never even thought about some woman as a lover in my entire life, like never. So isn’t it weird, that I have some anxiety now? I thought that people who come out later in life have always felt different etc. Could you explain it? Have you had some clients who believed they had HOCD but they were gay in denial? What’s the difference between sexual identity crisis and hocd? I’ve read about some guy who doesn’t believe there is such thing as HOCD and everyone who think they have it are really gay in denial, he always liked girls but in his 20ties suddenly realized he was gay all along, though he was in love with some girl. Do you think it’s possible? Secondly: I always became anxious at the end of August / beginning of the September, every year. And I had always intrusive thoughts about me being alone in this world and having no future life with some man and actually having no feelings for them – it’s more like depression, like I have no desire even to live but I can exist in the world etc. It ends when December comes. So my question is: Do you think this two cases may be connected? But I don’t know why this HOCD even came to me. Have yo a clu what can trigger HOCD? Because I’ve watched some random video on youtube about girl coming out and it hit me: What if I’m gay? And at first they were intrusive thoughts like panicking and everything but now I think like I’m really gay but I don’t want to be with some woman it’s depressing me. Can HOCD make insane? Because I feel so. Sorry that its so long again, but my therapist is unavailable. The last question is: How homosexual desires look like? Because I know heterosexual person can have homosexual thoughts but I don’t now what’s the difference. Sorry that there’s so many questions, but I want to really understand hocd and if I can really relate to it. Jon Hershfield September 12, 2015 at 5:25 pm - Reply >>>>Thank you for your response Dr. Hershfield. It seems like I’m loosing my mind actually. —People often tell me this. Not sure what it means. Usually I hear it from people who are lost in thought, so wrapped up in the mind that they start to question reality. That’s not losing the mind then – more like being too close to it. >>>>I have few more questions, sorry about that. Do you think some people, who have always desired people of the opposite sex can suddenly turn gay/lesbian? —No idea. I can’t imagine why not or why yes or why it would be important to know. >>>Because for me it’s pretty weird. Like I’ve never even thought about some woman as a lover in my entire life, like never. So isn’t it weird, that I have some anxiety now? I thought that people who come out later in life have always felt different etc. Could you explain it? —Well, you’re right that suddenly becoming anxious about something more likely points to OCD and always feeling like you belonged with the same sex more likely points to being gay. I’m not sure what you mean by weird other than you seem to have developed an obsession about sexual orientation. >>>Have you had some clients who believed they had HOCD but they were gay in denial? What’s the difference between sexual identity crisis and hocd? I’ve read about some guy who doesn’t believe there is such thing as HOCD and everyone who think they have it are really gay in denial, he always liked girls but in his 20ties suddenly realized he was gay all along, though he was in love with some girl. Do you think it’s possible? —Many things are possible, including that you are currently asking me compulsive reassurance-seeking questions that ultimately worsen the grip OCD has on you. >>>>Secondly: I always became anxious at the end of August / beginning of the September, every year. And I had always intrusive thoughts about me being alone in this world and having no future life with some man and actually having no feelings for them – it’s more like depression, like I have no desire even to live but I can exist in the world etc. It ends when December comes. So my question is: Do you think this two cases may be connected? —I don’t know. Some people appear to have mood disorders that are affected seasonally, but this is not my area of expertise. I would imagine that if a person had OCD and a seasonal mood disorder, then they could expect it to affect the severity of OCD symptoms as well. >>>But I don’t know why this HOCD even came to me. Have yo a clu what can trigger HOCD? Because I’ve watched some random video on youtube about girl coming out and it hit me: What if I’m gay? And at first they were intrusive thoughts like panicking and everything but now I think like I’m really gay but I don’t want to be with some woman it’s depressing me. —If it wasn’t this, it would likely be something else. It’s this because when you had the thought about being gay, you responded to it with compulsive efforts to get certainty. When you had a thought like, “is there really life on Mars?” you probably shrugged and went back about your business. >>>>Can HOCD make insane? Because I feel so. Sorry that its so long again, but my therapist is unavailable. —I don’t know what “insane” is supposed to mean in this context or why having an answer to that question would benefit anyone. >>>The last question is: How homosexual desires look like? Because I know heterosexual person can have homosexual thoughts but I don’t now what’s the difference. —They look awesome is my guess. I don’t know. If you want to overcome this obsession, you need to start by identifying as compulsive these attempts to get certainty about the difference between OCD and whatever it is your OCD is going on about. >>>>Sorry that there’s so many questions, but I want to really understand hocd and if I can really relate to it. —The thing to understand about HOCD is the same thing to understand about any OCD. Compulsions aimed at getting certainty send the message to your brain that obsessions are intruders, to be persisted in, and fought with, and the more you compulse, the stronger the obsession. CBT and mindfulness approaches work because they specifically target the cessation of compulsions and the acceptance of uncertainty. Cara September 5, 2015 at 6:19 pm - Reply And I want to mention that I read this article over and over again and it makes me more relaxed, but then again, when I stop reading or go out I feel anxious again. I don’t know what’s true anymore and what’s not. Can HOCD make someone believe that he really wants and wouldn’t mind a relationship with a person of the same sex? But I want to. I always desired men and now feels like it’s a lie. weird. Jon Hershfield September 12, 2015 at 5:27 pm - Reply It’s not unusual for someone with OCD to find a blog that describes his/her symptoms and then compulsively read and re-read the blog for reassurance. Occupational hazard of writing blogs for OCD I suppose. I would recommend you take a break from reading blogs about your OCD and start doing CBT as soon as you can. Cara September 12, 2015 at 10:34 pm Thank you for all answers, Dr. Hershfield. I appreciate it a lot and it helpedme. I’ll start doing CBT asap and stop the compulsions. Nara October 15, 2015 at 1:34 am - Reply Hey Doctor, how are you? (You can jump for the last 2 paragraph if you want, there’s my doubt.) So, I’ve been dealing with I hope with all my heart is HOCD. I haven’t been diagnosed actually because there’s any OCD specialist in my city (I live in a pretty small city in Brazil) but reading others people stories and symptoms and reading articles about the subject I saw the similarity (I saw myself in these stories/articles) with what I’m dealing with since march this year. Just classic HOCD, I never had same-sex attractions/crushes (I’m a 20 years old girl), never fantasized/wanted same-sex intercourse, never questioned my sexuality, only liked/fantasized/daydreamed about boys, basically I lived a pretty normal Heterosexual life. During these past months, I went through several “cycles?” of HOCD, back and forth, several times. Right now I’m almost convinced that my sexuality changed or that I just discovered that I was gay all my life and didn’t know (even though I never liked a girl like that, like I remember most of my boy crushes if I had a girl crush I’d be able to remember, right?) and doubting that a had/have HOCD and was just trying to force myself to be straight (I never forced any of my attractions for boys, it would just happen without me thinking/questioning about it, I know that… everything was natural and good and REAL and made me so happy). (I could write more but would be a really long post and I don’t think it would make difference, just know Doc that I WAS straight, I know this) The problem right now is that I keep seeing the word gay everywhere, like, I’m scrolling down quickly an article and the there’s the word Day for example and my brain just automatically reads Gay, sometimes the word don’t even look like Gay, could be any word, big or small, my brain keep reading Gay. (I know that’s something kinda normal to do but It happens a lot of times and most of the time I just see the word GAY GAY GAY) or when I’m reading something, for example, “I’m so…” my brain before finishing the phrase already finish with “gay”, but the real phrase is “I’m so understanding”. Like today, I was reading a text and said “Girls, what are you weakness?” My first thought was “Girls” even though they weren’t/aren’t my weakness. Someone once told me that the first thought that pops on our head after a question is the real us, and I am sad now. 🙁 I never saw anyone with HOCD saying they had this and it makes me sadder. 🙁 Could this be because I’m obsessing with my sexuality and the fear of being Lesbian or could my brain trying to send me signals about who I’m? I know I shouldn’t seek certainty because I can’t have it, but I can have hope, right? I really hope this is just OCD and my sexuality didn’t changed and that I can be my old self again, I miss her. I hope you understand what I meant, English is not my first language. Nara October 15, 2015 at 1:41 am - Reply Forget to say that I don’t like these thoughts, it makes me really sad and frustrated, I really don’t want to be gay, I have nothing against them, I actually support them, they have the right to love whoever they want but I don’t want to be. Liking guys always felt right to me. Jon Hershfield October 15, 2015 at 9:35 pm - Reply If you suddenly realized you were gay, I would presume you’d be overjoyed by the new discovery. Sounds like an obsession based on how you are describing it. The concern about seeing “gay” everywhere and making gay associations with words, etc. is best understood as a cognitive distortion called selective abstraction (or tunnel vision). When we have an obsession, we inadvertently invite thinking patterns that keep the obsession in place. This pattern, selective abstraction, basically means that you are pulling in all information that relates to your obsession and giving it more attention than information that is unrelated. It’s like you are wearing obsession-tinted sunglasses. A good non-OCD example is how when we break up with a romantic partner, we might turn on the radio and notice that all of the songs happen to be love songs. Well, there are actually the same number of love songs, but it seems like they are everywhere when you are in that state. Understanding (and reducing) this is don simply by recognizing that you have “gay on the mind” because right now you have an obsession with the subject. When you notice the triggering words popping out, simply notice them. If it bothers you to notice them, you can remember, “oh, right, that’s selective abstraction.” Fanny Sisley October 15, 2015 at 8:39 pm - Reply Hello, so I think I may have HOCD… I didn’t go to a doctor yet because I’m afraid I don’t have it and that I’m lying to myself. Those intrusive and unwanted same-sex thoughts started in the beginner of this year and caused me a lot of distress and anxiety, I cried a lot. I really never questioned my sexually or my attractions to guys (I’m a girl) but is all that I do right now. I always find girls pretty, I thought that was normal, even to a straight girl so I really never worried about it, I used to be very confident on my sexuality, but I can’t find a girl pretty anymore without anxiety and fear of being attracted to them. I’m having trouble doing normal things that I used to do before like watching TV, I fear I’m going to get attracted to one of them, I ever got afraid of watching a cartoon that had girls animations. Or listening to music, I feared that I’d get attracted to their voices, I feared that I was getting attracted to my family members like my mom, sister and even my niece (She’s 10). I used to joke around saying that If Candice Swanepoel ever wanted to be with a girl, she could call me but think about the possibility of wanting to be with a girl for real is scares the shit out me. And I really don’t know why but my brain simply don’t believe in the possibility of liking both (Be bi.. even though I don’t want to be it either), is like or I’m straight or I’m a lesbian, there’s no in between. Like I don’t want to stop desiring men, ever. I didn’t ever had the chance to experience with a guy and I wanted it so bad. I never had any crush on girls (at least that I noticed/remember), never wanted to be with a girl, never was interested or even watched lesbian porn or fantasized about it. I wasn’t disgusted about it, just uninterested. All my attractions to guys were real, at least, I thought they were. I really enjoyed them and loved to daydream about them. I have social anxiety and talking to guys was never easy to me so I never had a boyfriend or even been kissed. And my brain is telling me that I can’t know If I’d like it (having a boyfriend) if I never had one and I don’t know what to think. I used to dream with the day that I’d date a guy and do everything couples do, but I’m really close to giving up of this dream because I really think something changed in me. I don’t know if am not straight anymore or if I just noticed that I’m a lesbian, but I don’t feel the way I used to. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to love a woman like that, but my brain keeps telling to just accept it, that I will like it and will laugh about it. I’m afraid of getting treatment because sometimes it feels I’m going to really find out that I’m a lesbian, and not that I’ll be like I used to be. I’d prefer not knowing it. I don’t know what I’m trying to get with this comment and I feel like I may have left a bunch of important details that about what I’m going through or about my sexuality and past, but reading about it everywhere, I have the same symptoms and did the same thing people do (and I’m aware that I can’t be diagnosed like this) but could this be HOCD? And could be HOCD my first OCD “attack”? I don’t think I ever had it before. Jon Hershfield October 15, 2015 at 9:41 pm - Reply >>>Hello, so I think I may have HOCD… I didn’t go to a doctor yet because I’m afraid I don’t have it and that I’m lying to myself. —Yes, many people struggle with this and it highlights the importance of seeing an ocd specialist if you suspect you might have ocd. >>>Those intrusive and unwanted same-sex thoughts started in the beginner of this year and caused me a lot of distress and anxiety, I cried a lot. I really never questioned my sexually or my attractions to guys (I’m a girl) but is all that I do right now. I always find girls pretty, I thought that was normal, even to a straight girl so I really never worried about it, I used to be very confident on my sexuality, but I can’t find a girl pretty anymore without anxiety and fear of being attracted to them. —Right, it is normal, but now you have an obsession that it might not be normal and you are responding to the thoughts differently. If you went back to responding to the thoughts like they were just things that cross your mind, they would stop preenting as intruders out to harm your identity. >>>I’m having trouble doing normal things that I used to do before like watching TV, I fear I’m going to get attracted to one of them, I ever got afraid of watching a cartoon that had girls animations. Or listening to music, I feared that I’d get attracted to their voices, I feared that I was getting attracted to my family members like my mom, sister and even my niece (She’s 10). I used to joke around saying that If Candice Swanepoel ever wanted to be with a girl, she could call me but think about the possibility of wanting to be with a girl for real is scares the shit out me. And I really don’t know why but my brain simply don’t believe in the possibility of liking both (Be bi.. even though I don’t want to be it either), is like or I’m straight or I’m a lesbian, there’s no in between. Like I don’t want to stop desiring men, ever. I didn’t ever had the chance to experience with a guy and I wanted it so bad. —You describe a lot of common triggers and concerns in HOCD. >>>I never had any crush on girls (at least that I noticed/remember), never wanted to be with a girl, never was interested or even watched lesbian porn or fantasized about it. I wasn’t disgusted about it, just uninterested. All my attractions to guys were real, at least, I thought they were. I really enjoyed them and loved to daydream about them. I have social anxiety and talking to guys was never easy to me so I never had a boyfriend or even been kissed. And my brain is telling me that I can’t know If I’d like it (having a boyfriend) if I never had one and I don’t know what to think. I used to dream with the day that I’d date a guy and do everything couples do, but I’m really close to giving up of this dream because I really think something changed in me. I don’t know if am not straight anymore or if I just noticed that I’m a lesbian, but I don’t feel the way I used to. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to love a woman like that, but my brain keeps telling to just accept it, that I will like it and will laugh about it. I’m afraid of getting treatment because sometimes it feels I’m going to really find out that I’m a lesbian, and not that I’ll be like I used to be. I’d prefer not knowing it. —Social anxiety, in my experience, seems to be pretty common alongside HOCD and the OCD sort of uses your fear of negative evaluation as one of its weapons to keep you obsessed. >>>I don’t know what I’m trying to get with this comment and I feel like I may have left a bunch of important details that about what I’m going through or about my sexuality and past, but reading about it everywhere, I have the same symptoms and did the same thing people do (and I’m aware that I can’t be diagnosed like this) but could this be HOCD? And could be HOCD my first OCD “attack”? I don’t think I ever had it before. —Not unusual for this subject to b the first thing a person can get really stuck on if they have ocd. My recommendation is to get an assessment from an ocd specialist in your area. Hannah October 23, 2015 at 5:15 pm - Reply Hello Doctor, I have a doubt… Are false memories normal to people with OCD? Maybe not false but distorted memories? I mean I’m a girl and used to consider myself straight until the HOCD got stuck on me. And sometimes my brain brings up some old memories and I have a hard time letting them go because I literally can’t tell if they are real or not. Like today, I remembered a school party that I went years ago, and I was with a boy there and my mind told me that I was uncomfortable with him because I’m a lesbian and the thing is I can’t remember if I did or didn’t get uncomfortable… I know that he didn’t let go of me for the whole party and this could have made uncomfortable because I have social anxiety, but my mind insists that I was and it’s because I’m a lesbian. And most of the memories that my brain bring up that involves girls are normally the girls I used to want to be friends with because they were popular, but my mind says that I liked them, but I didn’t know. Like at this moment, I’m afraid of getting crushes on girls, but my brain says it already happened and I didn’t realize. Is it normal? Jon Hershfield November 1, 2015 at 2:57 pm - Reply Inaccurate or distorted memories are normal events for people with or without ocd. People with ocd are more likely to view them as problematic, review them compulsively, and further confuse themselves. Memories are thoughts. Instead of trying to prove what they mean, you want to simply observe them as they come and go and not take the bait your ocd sets out. Nyancat November 5, 2015 at 3:24 am - Reply I’m in my early teens and recently, just a month ago I have been suffering HOCD. One day I was thinking about one of my friends and her boyfriend, and what it was like to be dating–and then I snowballed from that, thinking “Well what if my friend was dating a girl?” And my thoughts kept elaborating until I myself was worried that I was lesbian. I told my parents about this, and they simply said that I was asking for trouble and that I was absolutely not homosexual–as I have liked only boys my entire life. That gave me relief for another five more weeks, until now. Now, whenever I see an attractive girl/woman, I wonder “What if I actually like her? What if?” To prevent these thoughts from recurring, I would just think of a boy crush over and over again. If there was an image of an attractive woman/girl online, then I would avoid looking at it. And whenever I saw an attractive female in person, I would tell myself “DO NOT start feeling butterflies in your stomach.” I have even spent great amounts of time praying to God and asking for help. Sometimes, I would move on to thinking that I was bisexual, which is just as “unacceptable” as being lesbian. To me, homo/bisexuality is disgusting; for instance, I would avoid all news that had LGBT content. Yet, my mind tells me that I might be one of those people. This really haunts me. My parents have told me that one’s sexuality is innate, and is rarely ever learnt. But I have also heard that some people don’t discover their true sexuality until adulthood. That really bothers me, as I feel that I will have to wait a couple more years until I finally know. I’m the person who needs to find the “absolute truth” for reassurance. But one thing does distinguish me from lesbians/bisexuals in denial. I don’t “deny” myself from being homo/bisexual because of the fear of being rejected by the society–I just think that it’s disgusting, wrong, and “not right.” I’m still extremely confused, levitating in a state of helplessness. It’s already been interfering with my schoolwork, and I do not want it to continue. I have been suffering from harm OCD just last week, and POOF! it’s gone now. BTW when I was 10, for 3 months I had extremely intrusive thoughts about my “making wrong decisions in the future.” I would think, “What if I was a murderer when I grew up? What if I lost self-control and started doing drugs?” I was (and still am) very sensitive to “bad news.” Whenever someone mentioned something about a serial killer, for example, I would feel extremely uncomfortable and start worrying whether or not I would be one. Even the mention of the word “drugs” made/makes me feel queasy. After a while, those intrusive thoughts just faded away. For a few more years I was completely fine…..until now. Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 5:47 pm - Reply >>>>I’m in my early teens and recently, just a month ago I have been suffering HOCD. One day I was thinking about one of my friends and her boyfriend, and what it was like to be dating–and then I snowballed from that, thinking “Well what if my friend was dating a girl?” And my thoughts kept elaborating until I myself was worried that I was lesbian. I told my parents about this, and they simply said that I was asking for trouble and that I was absolutely not homosexual–as I have liked only boys my entire life. That gave me relief for another five more weeks, until now. Now, whenever I see an attractive girl/woman, I wonder “What if I actually like her? What if?” To prevent these thoughts from recurring, I would just think of a boy crush over and over again. —This is a good example of a compulsion called thought neutralization. A non-compulsive response to these “what if” questions would be to shrug and maybe something like “dunno, food for thought” and let it remain unanswered. The strategy you are employing only sends the message to your brain that you must be at some sort of heightened risk of losing your sexual identity and have to engage in some kind of thought game to protect yourself. >>>If there was an image of an attractive woman/girl online, then I would avoid looking at it. And whenever I saw an attractive female in person, I would tell myself “DO NOT start feeling butterflies in your stomach.” —A more useful strategy would be the exact opposite of this behavior. Let yourself look at things that are in front of you and stop telling yourself that you must feel anything in particular. >>>I have even spent great amounts of time praying to God and asking for help. Sometimes, I would move on to thinking that I was bisexual, which is just as “unacceptable” as being lesbian. To me, homo/bisexuality is disgusting; for instance, I would avoid all news that had LGBT content. Yet, my mind tells me that I might be one of those people. This really haunts me. —You are absolutely entitled to these beliefs. However, since people of different orientations exist, you are likely to hear about or read about them from time to time. Going out of your way to avoid being in the presence of things that exist only makes you obsessed with those very things you are trying to avoid thinking about. >>>My parents have told me that one’s sexuality is innate, and is rarely ever learnt. But I have also heard that some people don’t discover their true sexuality until adulthood. That really bothers me, as I feel that I will have to wait a couple more years until I finally know. I’m the person who needs to find the “absolute truth” for reassurance. —More to the point, you are a person who thinks this way about truth because you may have OCD. >>>But one thing does distinguish me from lesbians/bisexuals in denial. I don’t “deny” myself from being homo/bisexual because of the fear of being rejected by the society–I just think that it’s disgusting, wrong, and “not right.” I’m still extremely confused, levitating in a state of helplessness. It’s already been interfering with my schoolwork, and I do not want it to continue. I have been suffering from harm OCD just last week, and POOF! it’s gone now. BTW when I was 10, for 3 months I had extremely intrusive thoughts about my “making wrong decisions in the future.” I would think, “What if I was a murderer when I grew up? What if I lost self-control and started doing drugs?” I was (and still am) very sensitive to “bad news.” Whenever someone mentioned something about a serial killer, for example, I would feel extremely uncomfortable and start worrying whether or not I would be one. Even the mention of the word “drugs” made/makes me feel queasy. After a while, those intrusive thoughts just faded away. For a few more years I was completely fine…..until now. —You describe a history of multiple OCD symptoms. The next question is what you are going to do about this disorder in terms of getting some treatment so you don’t just keep repeating these cycles. Nyancat November 5, 2015 at 3:28 am - Reply Please help I am in great distress. I would really appreciate your feedback. Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 5:48 pm - Reply Sorry for the delayed response. For context, in addition to my practice and other responsibilities, I also moderate or contribute to multiple online support groups and things back up. Commenting on blog comments often takes me a few weeks to get caught up. Sarah November 6, 2015 at 8:44 am - Reply Hi Jon, I am a 24 year old girl and I am certain I have HOCD because I can’t stop obsessing over whether I am a lesbian or not. I just sit in my room researching the internet about it all day and the thoughts don’t leave my head. When I go in public I am constantly trying to see if I am attracted to any girls but I am not. I wake up having panic attacks over this and the thoughts don’t leave my head until I go to bed. I haven’t told anyone other than my mum but I don’t think people really understand. The ocd comes and goes and usually lasts for a few weeks and I can’t even focus on anything then it disappears and I am back to normal for a few months. I remember having crushes on guys when I was as young as 6 years old and I currently have a boyfriend who I love. I have never been attracted to a girl and cannot imagine having sex with or dating one. But the fact that lesbian porn turns me on (along with other types) keeps bothering me and my head keeps telling me I must be lesbian/bisexual because of this. I have seen people in YouTube comments and even in recent news articles say that if a girl is turned on by lesbian porn then she is definitely at least bisexual and this is scarying me (It is making me feel really really anxious that people think this). I remember when I was 11 and first found out about sex I would look up porn and there were a lot girls in it and I’d have weird thoughts, but I can’t remember if they turned me on then but my mind is trying to tell me it did. Anyways, is it true that if I get turned on by lesbian porn I am at least bisexual? This scares me because I don’t feel like I am but I read people’s comments on the internet saying a girl that does this must be bisexual. Others say they can still be straight and that it’s normal. What do you think about this it is really causing me to stress out. I don’t know what to do anymore, I can’t stop crying. Thank you for reading this. Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 8:39 pm - Reply You describe yourself struggling significantly with OCD and engaging in a lot of compulsive behavior. OCD is a treatable disorder and I strongly recommend you seek treatment for it from a specialist if you can access one or, at the very least, look into a self-CBT workbook for it. To your question about pornography and orientation, it has been demonstrated by multiple research studies that women respond to stimuli outside their identified orientation and that groinal arousal in women does not correlate well to defined orientation. It is also somewhat common knowledge I would argue that the average heterosexual woman is stimulated to varying degrees by lesbian pornography and that this is not relevant to orientation. Whether it has something to do with biology, the psychological nature of taboo, or some combination of factors, I have no idea. Your OCD wants you to get certainty that your experience of lesbian pornography is mutually exclusive from being bi or homosexual. This reassurance you cannot have. But what I can say is that there is no scientific evidence backing what you are afraid people think or what you see on youtube comments. In the end, if you want to stop being obsessed with orientation, you have to stop responding to these questions like they need answers in order for you to be you. Nyancat November 8, 2015 at 12:45 am - Reply If I found out that I was not heterosexual, I would be devastated. Please tell me whether or not I have another mental disorder based on what I wrote above– so that I can tell my parents about it. I think it’s unusual for me to be so young to be worrying about these things. Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 8:40 pm - Reply I cannot diagnose you from a blog comment. I believe you said you were a young teen, which is a common age for people with ocd to see a spike in symptoms, particularly sexual obsessions. Nyancat November 8, 2015 at 6:44 am - Reply And now I just heard that one’s sexuality can change as time progresses. Is that true? I do all this checking to make sure; some sources say it’s true, while others say that one cannot suddenly turn into something else no more than he can sprout wings. I’ve read all these stories about people who consistently fall in love with the opposite sex for the first few decades of his/her life–and then shift towards homosexuality in their fifties. But I really, really don’t want my sexuality to change–I just want to be heterosexual for the rest of my life–like I knew ever since I had crushes. Now, I wish that I had never even elicited these horrible thoughts, and I want to return to what I was before. I couldn’t accept myself being homo/bisexual or anything else other than heterosexual, and I wish that heterosexuality was the only type of sexual orientation in the world. I also take a whole bunch of sexuality quizzes, all of them saying that I am heterosexual. But then I doubt myself, thinking that I might be bisexual/lesbian. And then I tell myself that it’s just HOCD that’s lying to me. I’m always going back and forth between the two. Now I’m really confused. Should I see an OCD specialist? Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 8:43 pm - Reply >>>>And now I just heard that one’s sexuality can change as time progresses. Is that true? —How would I know? >>>>I do all this checking to make sure; —This is as useful as repeatedly checking a stove to build confidence that you won;t burn you house down. It’s a compulsion and it always makes your obsession worse in the end. >>>>some sources say it’s true, while others say that one cannot suddenly turn into something else no more than he can sprout wings. I’ve read all these stories about people who consistently fall in love with the opposite sex for the first few decades of his/her life–and then shift towards homosexuality in their fifties. But I really, really don’t want my sexuality to change–I just want to be heterosexual for the rest of my life–like I knew ever since I had crushes. Now, I wish that I had never even elicited these horrible thoughts, and I want to return to what I was before. I couldn’t accept myself being homo/bisexual or anything else other than heterosexual, and I wish that heterosexuality was the only type of sexual orientation in the world. I also take a whole bunch of sexuality quizzes, all of them saying that I am heterosexual. —Taking these quizzes is another compulsion you would need to stop if you want to stop obsessing about your orientation. >>>>But then I doubt myself, thinking that I might be bisexual/lesbian. And then I tell myself that it’s just HOCD that’s lying to me. I’m always going back and forth between the two. Now I’m really confused. Should I see an OCD specialist? —Yes, that would seem the most sensible approach to what you are describing. Ingrid November 12, 2015 at 3:37 am - Reply Do people know whether or not they are in denial? I still can’t tell the difference between that and HOCD. I know I’m not in denial, but a little voice from the back of my head whispers, “Yes, you are in denial. Be true to yourself.” And then I retort, “NO YOU AREN’T. Of course not. You were heterosexual before and you cannot be homo/bi now. SHUT UP.” I would go back and forth between these thoughts, and it is agitating me. At times, it distracts me so much that I take double the amount of time doing my schoolwork. Before, whenever I saw an attractive woman/girl, I only admired her and wished to possess her beauty. But now, instead of feeling admiration, I would worry that I had a crush on her. I would check to see if my heart rate sped up, or if I was blushing (those were my reactions to a male crush) And although that never really happened, I would still think it did and be forced into thinking that my heart rate went up. This matter is tormenting me. Literally, it’s one of the most excruciating mental pains I’ve ever experienced in my life. Last week, I was taking a piano lesson when I began to cry in the middle of playing a piece–so we had to end that day’s class. I told my parents about my worries, and they said that I was absolutely not homo/bi and I was heterosexual. I have talked to my pediatrician (I’m 13), but she hasn’t helped much either. What can I do to get rid of these thoughts? I was fine last week…. I have been taking a number of sexuality questionnaires, to find that I get “heterosexual” as my result for all of them. But I still doubt myself, thinking “Well, what if you are actually in denial and you are lying? What if?” I don’t even feel like I’m in denial, though. I just feel so confused. I’m levitating in a state of helplessness. I don’t even know what in the world these terrible thoughts are. I just want them to go away. I want to return to what I was before. Am I in denial? I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hope I’m not. Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 9:44 pm - Reply >>>Do people know whether or not they are in denial? —I don’t know, but I would presume they don’t. >>>>I still can’t tell the difference between that and HOCD. —OCD is am mental health condition characterized by unwanted intrusive thoughts and ritualized compulsive responses that impair functioning. Denial is when you’re one way and living another way when you’re really that one way, but you don’t know it or won’t admit it. The two concepts don’t have much to do with one another except that people with an obsessive fear of being in denial often want to know if they are in denial or not. >>>>I know I’m not in denial, but a little voice from the back of my head whispers, “Yes, you are in denial. Be true to yourself.” And then I retort, “NO YOU AREN’T. Of course not. You were heterosexual before and you cannot be homo/bi now. SHUT UP.” I would go back and forth between these thoughts, and it is agitating me. At times, it distracts me so much that I take double the amount of time doing my schoolwork. —It would be a better strategy to resist the urge to argue with little voices in your head since you already established that they say a lot of nonsense and don’t merit a lot of attention. >>>Before, whenever I saw an attractive woman/girl, I only admired her and wished to possess her beauty. But now, instead of feeling admiration, I would worry that I had a crush on her. I would check to see if my heart rate sped up, or if I was blushing (those were my reactions to a male crush) And although that never really happened, I would still think it did and be forced into thinking that my heart rate went up. This matter is tormenting me. Literally, it’s one of the most excruciating mental pains I’ve ever experienced in my life. Last week, I was taking a piano lesson when I began to cry in the middle of playing a piece–so we had to end that day’s class. I told my parents about my worries, and they said that I was absolutely not homo/bi and I was heterosexual. I have talked to my pediatrician (I’m 13), but she hasn’t helped much either. What can I do to get rid of these thoughts? I was fine last week…. —Sorry you are struggling so. Pretty brave of you to reach out for information at 13. My recommendation is that you talk to your parents about how much anxiety you are experiencing and how much time you are spending doing battle with that anxiety. Them reassuring you about being straight won;t make this go away, more likely will just make you more obsessive. The best bet would be to start working with an ocd specialist who does a form of therapy for OCD called CBT. >>>I have been taking a number of sexuality questionnaires, to find that I get “heterosexual” as my result for all of them. —May be reassuring at first, but it’s a compulsion and it makes you more obsessive. Think of it this way. Your thoughts about being denial are like dirt to you and your questionnaires are like soap. But if you know anything about OCD, you know that people who wash more when they’re afraid of dirt don’t suddenly feel clean and then drop it. They wash and wash and wash until they get treatment. >>>>But I still doubt myself, thinking “Well, what if you are actually in denial and you are lying? What if?” I don’t even feel like I’m in denial, though. I just feel so confused. I’m levitating in a state of helplessness. I don’t even know what in the world these terrible thoughts are. I just want them to go away. I want to return to what I was before. Am I in denial? I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hope I’m not. —I can’t diagnose you from here, but it sounds like an obsession to me and that means you can get help for it. Ask your parents to get you help, not for sexual orientation confusion, but for an OCD assessment with a specialist. Ingrid November 18, 2015 at 6:12 am - Reply Thanks, Mr. Hershfield, for your evaluation of my condition. I have been fine for a week now, and my parents will let me see a therapist to guide me through my ERP journey. I really apologize for the many comments I posted. For whatever reason, my first few comments “disappeared”–so I thought there was an internet connection error and began posting more comments (by the way, I am the “Nyancat” from above) (And I didn’t mean to discriminate LGB’s from the above comments….I was so distressed that words came pouring out of my mouth) Jon Hershfield November 19, 2015 at 12:12 am - Reply Glad to hear you will be getting some help. Best of luck in your treatment! Andrew November 22, 2015 at 5:05 am - Reply Hi I don’t know if I have hocd or not, I done the free test and checked off around 23-24 items , still I’m not sure though I can’t live like this anymore I feel tormented and feel I have to be alone forever. I keep feeling stressed out all day everyday and can’t get peace at anytime I just want to be happy, I’ve suffered this since a young age I am now 26 , the thing that really confuses me is I get thoughts that I start thinking I enjoy these fantasies so I stress more and repeat the ritual in my head over and over to see if I get aroused by it in which I always end up feeling worse, I only fancy women and don’t fancy men but seem fixated on penises and that I must enjoy the thoughts but on the other hand I love women and don’t want to spend my life with a man and would never ever want to hold hands or kiss one, I’m sorry about going on about this but I just can’t stop thinking about it, I worry about everything and I mean everything from health to money to being like this forever but it’s the hocd if it is that that gets me down the most, I want to be with a woman but I feel with these thoughts that I am going to just have to be gay to somehow have a life that I don’t want, also have fantasies of wearing girls lingerie and get aroused by it therefore leading to me thinking I’m homosexual I just want peace and to b happy I really feel depressed as I feel I have to give in, so sorry for the long comment sorry Jon Hershfield November 30, 2015 at 1:46 am - Reply >>>>Hi I don’t know if I have hocd or not, I done the free test and checked off around 23-24 items —What free test? To my knowledge there is no official test for specific forms of OCD, though maybe someone made one up on a website somewhere. , still I’m not sure though I can’t live like this anymore I feel tormented and feel I have to be alone forever. I keep feeling stressed out all day everyday and can’t get peace at anytime I just want to be happy, I’ve suffered this since a young age I am now 26 , the thing that really confuses me is I get thoughts that I start thinking I enjoy these fantasies so I stress more and repeat the ritual in my head over and over to see if I get aroused by it in which I always end up feeling worse —So there are two problems here. One is the distorted belief that you need to control your enjoyment or disgust with fantasies (which are, by definition fictional and imaginary so not subject to the same assessment as actions) and the other is your decision to respond to your obsessions with compulsions. Testing is a particularly nasty compulsion that’s hard to quit, but, as you pointed out, the results speak for themselves. >>>, I only fancy women and don’t fancy men but seem fixated on penises and that I must enjoy the thoughts but on the other hand I love women and don’t want to spend my life with a man and would never ever want to hold hands or kiss one, I’m sorry about going on about this but I just can’t stop thinking about it, I worry about everything and I mean everything from health to money to being like this forever but it’s the hocd if it is that that gets me down the most, I want to be with a woman but I feel with these thoughts that I am going to just have to be gay to somehow have a life that I don’t want —Sounds like you’re struggling with a lot of anxiety and are stuck in an O-C loop. I suggest you get treatment for your OCD and stop expecting compulsions to pay off one day. You say you are afraid you’ll have to live as a gay man against your will because you can’t stop thinking about it, but it’s unclear why that would result you stopping thinking about. I think treating your POVD with CBT is a better strategy. , also have fantasies of wearing girls lingerie and get aroused by it therefore leading to me thinking I’m homosexual —people have all kinds of fantasies. And actually, men who do have genuine fantasies of wearing women’s clothing are typically heterosexual. >>>I just want peace and to b happy I really feel depressed as I feel I have to give in, so sorry for the long comment sorry —It’s not clear what you mean by “give in.” You seem to be giving in to compulsions, but I think you mean “give in” to homosexual desires, which you don;t appear to actually have outside of your testing compulsions. Ingrid November 22, 2015 at 6:03 am - Reply I apologize for posting so many comments, but one last question: I remember telling you I still sometimes worry if I would lose self-control one day and start doing drugs. Is this considered another subgroup of OCD? Or is it not even OCD, since it probably doesn’t pass a certain threshold? Thank you for your extra time…. Jon Hershfield November 30, 2015 at 1:46 am - Reply Sounds like an obsession with losing control to me. Ita December 14, 2015 at 3:22 am - Reply Hello dr My name is Ita. I’m a 23yr old male that has been suffering from hocd since 10th grade. I have been to many Drs and none have had the lasting effect that I would expect once you learn to live with hocd. Although I’m defiantly better then I was before I still find myself doubting and over analyzing my sexuality. The biggest thing that always gets me are the groinal responses and amount of debilitating anxiety that is automatically triggered when I look at certain men in the eyes. I find it hard to hold eye contact for fear that I will be aroused or them thinking that I am attracted to them and being weirded out. I haven’t had sex since my last girlfriend (about a year and a half) and find it very difficult to get sexual with women. For example/ yesterday I was at a bar and some pretty woman started talking with me. Although I wanted to get sexual with her I couldn’t feel anything. I felt like I wasn’t going to get anywhere with her because I wasn’t feeling the hornyness feelings that would create the sexual chemistry. From reading your posts I assume it’s because I’m putting too much pressure on the situation and the premiered outcome. It very hard to not attach feeling of feeling good depending on whether or not I get the girl. On top of that when I’m talking to her friend that’s a dude I feel such strong sensations that it’s hard not to believe the thoughts in my head that say that the reason I’m not getting horny to the girl is because my body is programmed to only get aroused by men and the sooner I accept it the better I’ll be. It gets really depressing because although I want to believe and move past this hocd it’s very confusing and I’m letting the years of my life swing by. Any advice on how to overcome and be able to feel aroused by women would be really great. Thanks, Ita Jon Hershfield December 15, 2015 at 9:32 pm - Reply >>>>My name is Ita. I’m a 23yr old male that has been suffering from hocd since 10th grade. I have been to many Drs and none have had the lasting effect that I would expect once you learn to live with hocd. Although I’m defiantly better then I was before I still find myself doubting and over analyzing my sexuality. The biggest thing that always gets me are the groinal responses and amount of debilitating anxiety that is automatically triggered when I look at certain men in the eyes. I find it hard to hold eye contact for fear that I will be aroused or them thinking that I am attracted to them and being weirded out. —The best way to deal with this is to make more eye contact with men and allow your groin to do whatever it wants without reading into it. Your avoidance only serves to make your over-attention to that area more severe. >>>>I haven’t had sex since my last girlfriend (about a year and a half) and find it very difficult to get sexual with women. For example/ yesterday I was at a bar and some pretty woman started talking with me. Although I wanted to get sexual with her I couldn’t feel anything. I felt like I wasn’t going to get anywhere with her because I wasn’t feeling the hornyness feelings that would create the sexual chemistry. —If you wait for your feelings to guide your behavior, you will wait for a lot of things for a very ling time. Feelings are not as reliable as people think and can easily be manipulated. Values are better guides. If you see hitting on this girl as being in line with your values, then that should be the motivator whether the feelings are present or absent. “Sexual chemistry” is a term someone made up one day to describe what they imagine other people are experiencing when they aren;t sitting around analyzing their feelings. >>>From reading your posts I assume it’s because I’m putting too much pressure on the situation and the premiered outcome. It very hard to not attach feeling of feeling good depending on whether or not I get the girl. —Yes, I understand it is difficult, especially when it is reinforced by avoidance. >>>>On top of that when I’m talking to her friend that’s a dude I feel such strong sensations that it’s hard not to believe the thoughts in my head that say that the reason I’m not getting horny to the girl is because my body is programmed to only get aroused by men and the sooner I accept it the better I’ll be. —Many people with HOCD who have spent a lot of time focusing on their groin as some sort of measuring tool for gayness find that the same sex is activating (because they are trying not to feel anything) and the other sex is deactivating or numbing (because you are trying to feel something). The key is to be present with whatever you are sensing at any given moment and allow it to be as it is while you make a guess as to what (or who?) you want to spend your time doing. >>>It gets really depressing because although I want to believe and move past this hocd it’s very confusing and I’m letting the years of my life swing by. Any advice on how to overcome and be able to feel aroused by women would be really great. —You mentioned seeing some doctors, but it wasn’t clear if you were engaging in CBT, ERP, or any of the treatments that work for OCD. My recommendation would be to stop checking your groin, stop checking and waiting for the exact right feelings, and do exposure to your fears. The best way to do this would be in CBT with an ocd specialist. or if you cannot access one, you might use a self-CBT workbook for ocd. Sther January 10, 2016 at 9:50 pm - Reply Doctor, OCD can make me doubt if I’m sexual too, right? I know this post is not about this but I’m dealing with HOCD too and I’m noticing the same patterns of thinking, it’s not the first time that I question it (did before when I was 15 I guess and was depressed, I wasn’t getting attracted to guys so I thought I could be and now with HOCD and depression again) and it never last as long as HOCD do (I’m very grateful)… Spent most of my day today researching about asexuality and ruminating about my past to see if there any signs. I don’t think I’m, even though I never had sex, I enjoy the idea of it and want to. Anyway, I’m not going to get further with this, just wanted to know if it’s possible? and should be treated the same way as HOCD? Lost interest in sex lately again so could be because of it? Thank you. Jon Hershfield January 11, 2016 at 7:18 pm - Reply Yes, absolutely. It’s important to remember that HOCD is a made-up term that sufferers use as short hand to describe OCD where the primary theme has to do with sexual orientation (some may use SO-OCD for sexual orientation). But sexual obsessions, which are common in ocd, can apply to any aspect of sexuality or sexual identity. I have worked with clients who fear being asexual, transgender, and several other things. The fear is losing one’s preferred or assumed identity. The content of how this could happen is not important. The treatment is the same. Jessi January 12, 2016 at 3:32 pm - Reply Hello, First of all I really liked your article. It was helpful and made me realize some things. So I had problems with anxiety and panic attacks since my childhood. Last year I finally had the courage to go to a therapist and I was diagnosed with a panic disorder. The thing what scared me was my high heart rate and I thought that there is something physical wrong with me. Anyway a lot of people were judging me for being not girly enough and my dad annyoed me every week with “Do you have a boyfriend? Oh no you will never get one because you are a lesbian” and he did this since I was 14. And I am 19 now. My question can it be that my selfimage was distroyed by the reactions people have giving me all my life? 2 years ago out of nowhere the thought of “what of I am really gay?” popped into my head and I had anxiety. I was checking for emotional responses when I was looking at girls but nothing happened so I shrugged it off. But then there were 3 other times where I got anxiety/nervousness and I thought that means I am attracted to these girls. My question here was this also HOCD back then? I mean I had no intrusive thoughts back then I was just scared of being it and this thought was still back in my head. But now that I saw that you said that anxiety can trick us in feeling something and I just misinterpretended it because the anxiety was/is still there. Last year in August I met my boyfriend online and I wanted to visit him as soon as I was feeling better with my anxiety of getting a heart attack. I was looking in the mirror and I was thinking “He will not like you. Look at your body/face” (We are skyping every day so he already saw me and I saw him) Then I was pretty down and checked Facebook for any messages and I saw a photo of a girl and then the anxiety and nervousness came back and then it happened. “Oh my god. Does that mean I am gay?” and that’s when all the intrusive thoughts came into my head. I was depressed, I can’t sleep and It’s the First thing I think of when waking up and going to bed. The thought and the anxiety are always there. I went to my therapist and he said he is pretty sure that I have OCD. The funny thing is that my anxiety for my heart completly disappeared since HOCD took the place. And since that day my brain tells me stuff like “You are not attracted/ You don’t love your boyfriend because you are gay” “Come on I know you like girls” and I was fighting it. I did a lot of compulsions. Looking through the Internet to look for an answer “Am I gay?” Of course there was no answer. But then I tried to look at a lot of HOCD Forums to see what other people have gone through. And I could relate to a lot of people with their symptoms. Like not watching TV because there a women. Not going outside. Etc. And then I was like “Okay I want to get better. I want this to end.” I looked at many sides to see what you can do and then I found the ERP and my first thought was “No way what If I find out I like all this stuff and that means I am gay and I had to leave my boyfriend who I don’t want to lose.” I was scared but I tried to make small steps for now. I googled sexy women and forced myself to stay in the situation even if I wanted to shut down my laptop and start to panic. But I did it my anxiety decreased (Oh I am also taking meds) and I just felt nothing. And I was proud of myself. I am trying to do stuff I normally prevent because I didn’t want to think “Oh you think she looks pretty that means you are gay”. I think I improved a little bit. What is still a hard thing is the thoughts around my boyfriend “You don’t love him. You don’t want to see him. Leave him and go get a girl.” That is something which gets me every time and I fight with my head by giving him evidence that this is just ocd and that I do love him. It’s really hard. Sometimes I have short times where I know I am not gay and I am thinking like “why was I freaking out so much” but yeah this is ocd and it always came back with the anxiety and the doubt. My parents have no idea about this whole HOCD thing and they think I am in denial which made everything worse and I was depressed again, couldn’t eat etc. Because they said I never had sex so I can’t tell what my sexual orientation is which I think is completely nonsense. If you ask a homosexual virgin if he is really gay because he can’t know if he never had sex he still would say yes because he is attracted to the same sex. And I am attracted to men. So I was trying to explain them my Situation but they just don’t understand. And one last question also which is really hard is that I am thinking about past events and literally everything is for OCD a thing where he can tell me “See! That means you are gay” that’s really exhausting and I try not to think about past events. Where seriously nothing happened but for ocd it looks like a big deal. Is it good to try not to think about past events or should I think about it and let me ocd talk? Thank you so much for the help and I am sorry for any spelling/grammar mistakes I am from Germany (: Jon Hershfield January 20, 2016 at 11:21 pm - Reply >>>>First of all I really liked your article. It was helpful and made me realize some things. —Great! >>>>So I had problems with anxiety and panic attacks since my childhood. Last year I finally had the courage to go to a therapist and I was diagnosed with a panic disorder. The thing what scared me was my high heart rate and I thought that there is something physical wrong with me. —Yes, panic disorder is often experienced this way. >>>>Anyway a lot of people were judging me for being not girly enough and my dad annyoed me every week with “Do you have a boyfriend? Oh no you will never get one because you are a lesbian” and he did this since I was 14. And I am 19 now. My question can it be that my selfimage was distroyed by the reactions people have giving me all my life? —Well, it didn’t help, but the concept of “self image” being :destroyed” doesn’t mean all that much. You have thoughts and some of those thoughts are assessments of your value in the world. Sometimes people get used to devaluing themselves, perhaps because other people encourage this. But it’s never really destroyed. It gets affected negatively, but can improve with proper treatment. >>>>2 years ago out of nowhere the thought of “what of I am really gay?” popped into my head and I had anxiety. I was checking for emotional responses when I was looking at girls but nothing happened so I shrugged it off. But then there were 3 other times where I got anxiety/nervousness and I thought that means I am attracted to these girls. My question here was this also HOCD back then? I mean I had no intrusive thoughts back then I was just scared of being it and this thought was still back in my head. But now that I saw that you said that anxiety can trick us in feeling something and I just misinterpretended it because the anxiety was/is still there. —Sometimes people experience intrusive thoughts as sudden bursts of awareness of unwanted material;. Sometimes people experience intrusive thoughts as more general fears the way you describe it. >>>>Last year in August I met my boyfriend online and I wanted to visit him as soon as I was feeling better with my anxiety of getting a heart attack. I was looking in the mirror and I was thinking “He will not like you. Look at your body/face” (We are skyping every day so he already saw me and I saw him) Then I was pretty down and checked Facebook for any messages and I saw a photo of a girl and then the anxiety and nervousness came back and then it happened. “Oh my god. Does that mean I am gay?” and that’s when all the intrusive thoughts came into my head. I was depressed, I can’t sleep and It’s the First thing I think of when waking up and going to bed. The thought and the anxiety are always there. I went to my therapist and he said he is pretty sure that I have OCD. The funny thing is that my anxiety for my heart completly disappeared since HOCD took the place. —Yes, OCD does that. >>>>And since that day my brain tells me stuff like “You are not attracted/ You don’t love your boyfriend because you are gay” “Come on I know you like girls” and I was fighting it. I did a lot of compulsions. Looking through the Internet to look for an answer “Am I gay?” Of course there was no answer. But then I tried to look at a lot of HOCD Forums to see what other people have gone through. And I could relate to a lot of people with their symptoms. Like not watching TV because there a women. Not going outside. Etc. And then I was like “Okay I want to get better. I want this to end.” I looked at many sides to see what you can do and then I found the ERP and my first thought was “No way what If I find out I like all this stuff and that means I am gay and I had to leave my boyfriend who I don’t want to lose.” —The idea that we should avoid exposure because we might discover something in the process that could make us lose the things we care about is an unhelpful idea. After all, the avoidance, mental review, and other compulsive behaviors that keep you focused on this fear are significantly more likely to result in losing the things you care about than anything else. The OCD is a bigger threat to your happiness than being gay would be. Thankfully, those aren’t your only choices, but you need to do the CBT work to get better. >>>>I was scared but I tried to make small steps for now. I googled sexy women and forced myself to stay in the situation even if I wanted to shut down my laptop and start to panic. But I did it my anxiety decreased (Oh I am also taking meds) and I just felt nothing. And I was proud of myself. I am trying to do stuff I normally prevent because I didn’t want to think “Oh you think she looks pretty that means you are gay”. I think I improved a little bit. —Good work. >>>>What is still a hard thing is the thoughts around my boyfriend “You don’t love him. You don’t want to see him. Leave him and go get a girl.” That is something which gets me every time and I fight with my head by giving him evidence that this is just ocd and that I do love him. It’s really hard. —You’re doing a self-reassurance compulsion by repeatedly telling yourself it;s just ocd and you really love him. If you keep reminding yourself of something you already know, then your brain can only conclude there must be some doubt that makes the reminder necessary. A better strategy would be to say, “OK, maybe I don;t love him nd maybe I will go for girls, but right now I think I’ll just hang out for a while and see what happens.” >>>Sometimes I have short times where I know I am not gay and I am thinking like “why was I freaking out so much” but yeah this is ocd and it always came back with the anxiety and the doubt. My parents have no idea about this whole HOCD thing and they think I am in denial which made everything worse and I was depressed again, couldn’t eat etc. Because they said I never had sex so I can’t tell what my sexual orientation is which I think is completely nonsense. —I agree, nonsense. Only a person who knows nothing about sexuality would believe that sexual orientation is just about sex. >>>>If you ask a homosexual virgin if he is really gay because he can’t know if he never had sex he still would say yes because he is attracted to the same sex. And I am attracted to men. So I was trying to explain them my Situation but they just don’t understand. And one last question also which is really hard is that I am thinking about past events and literally everything is for OCD a thing where he can tell me “See! That means you are gay” that’s really exhausting and I try not to think about past events. Where seriously nothing happened but for ocd it looks like a big deal. Is it good to try not to think about past events or should I think about it and let me ocd talk? —You need to consider what the function of a behavior is before you determine if it is a compulsion or an exposure. From what you describe, the function of reviewing your past is to try to get certainty about your sexual orientation. So I would describe that as a form of compulsive mental review. Yosh January 29, 2016 at 4:22 pm - Reply Is usually in this disorder see all the guys walking down the street? I’m a male. I’m 35. I have been obssesed about mi sexuality since i was twenty. The worst for me is when i walk and i notice a goodlooking guy. I have to see him. I have to do that fourty or fifty times a day. It’s a hell. I allways loved woman y i have been in two larges relationships. I fell deep in love. I was free of ocd for three years (22/27) but then i started again. Jon Hershfield February 1, 2016 at 2:42 pm - Reply Hi, it’s clear that you are upset by these thoughts, but not clear why you are upset about seeing people in your field of vision that happen to be male. If your ocd is trying to tell you that noticing people of the same sex must mean something about you sexual orientation, I would challenge this assertion. Good looking guys are part of the landscape, so unless you have vision problems, you are going to see them. What you tell yourself about seeing them, what stories you spin, that is up to you. Yosh January 29, 2016 at 4:31 pm - Reply I have to add that when i was free for four years of ocd i never notice guys. And never looked at a guy until this ocd started. Thanks doc Jon Hershfield February 1, 2016 at 2:43 pm - Reply More likely you noticed guys and didn’t register that noticing them was important enough to remember. Yosh January 29, 2016 at 4:38 pm - Reply It seems an obligation. I have lost my atraction for girls and i think about that stuff 24/7. When i have to see a goodlooking guy in the street, tv, newspaper or Facebook i have anxiety and i compare this feelings with the feelings of attraction all the times. Jon Hershfield February 1, 2016 at 2:45 pm - Reply What you are calling “think about” is actually compulsive mental review. Comparing your feelings and testing for attraction are also compulsions. Compulsions function for you as a safety behavior to protect from discovering that you could be gay. Safety behaviors send the message to your brain that you must be in danger. therefore, the more you “think” and compare and analyze what you happen to notice, the more fear and doubt you will find yourself in. A better strategy would be to engage in some form of treatment for your ocd, either through a therapist if you can access one, or through a self-CBT workbook of some kind. Yosh January 29, 2016 at 6:12 pm - Reply I have to look at many guys constantly and monitoring my feelings but sometimes i feel something in my chest similar to my old feelings when i looked at womans. Is dificult for me live in this hell. I still have sex with girls only and i enjoy it. I love girls but i have to look at every goodlooking guy in the street. If i have a dinner in a restaurant and the waiter is handsome i suffer so much. I have to close my eyes and my ass and then i have to look. It’s horrible. Sorry Jon Hershfield February 1, 2016 at 2:50 pm - Reply >>>>I have to look at many guys constantly and monitoring my feelings —No, you choose to do this monitoring because you believe it protects you from turning gay. It is a compulsion and it keeps the obsession at the forefront. >>>but sometimes i feel something in my chest similar to my old feelings when i looked at womans. —Compulsive testing makes your feelings totally unreliable, so assessing them is futile until you have stopped testing. >>>Is dificult for me live in this hell. I still have sex with girls only and i enjoy it. —Hell? Maybe just an obsession. >>>I love girls but i have to look at every goodlooking guy in the street. If i have a dinner in a restaurant and the waiter is handsome i suffer so much. I have to close my eyes and my ass and then i have to look. It’s horrible. —Again, you get too comfortable with saying you “have to” do things and you start believe it is true when it clearly isn’t. You choose to do these compulsions as an alternative to accepting uncertainty and standing up to your ocd. And all of this just makes your obsession more powerful. My recommendation is to keep your eyes (and ass I guess) open, notice what you notice, including the thoughts and feelings, and allow them to be whatever they are while you continue to pursue, have sex with, and enjoy women since that is apparently your preference. Yosh February 1, 2016 at 5:16 pm - Reply Thank doc! I have been living with this disorder since 2000. In 2003 i won OCD and i was free four years but then, in 2007, this stuff came back. I’m seeing a therapist but i don’t improve. I don’t know why. Maybe i need ERP but in my country is dificult find a good therapist for that disorder. When i won ocd i was very happy and i laughed about my fears. I knew it was only anxiety but then all returned. It’s dificult. I am allways reading about hocd, it’s other compulsion. Thanks and good luck Jon Hershfield February 2, 2016 at 5:48 pm - Reply The excessive reading (reassurance seeking) about HOCD will certainly impede progress. If you cannot find a therapist who specializes in OCD where you are, my recommendation would be either to find a therapist who at least practices CBT and ask if they are willing to read up on ERP and the treatment of OCD, or use a self-help CBT workbook to construct your own ERP. Joe February 6, 2016 at 2:23 am - Reply Hello, Jon. I’ve last commented on this topic a while ago, as I was working really hard to figure things out and answer some questions for myself. To recap what I said to you on earlier occasions: I’ve had serious and really disfunctional doubts about my sexuality, at first exacerbated by early exposure to homoerotic media, then my apparent liking of the said media coupled with increasing doubts about enjoying heterosexual fantasies, then after having several crushes on girls, starting to notice attractive guys (and attractive people in general) much more, and trying to put that discovery in a satisfactory context, which only lead to increasingly intense and confusing emotional reactions (anxiety, butterflies, urge to stare until calmed down, undeniable visual appreciation/attraction), and all of that contributed to fairly regular cycles of extreme anxiety followed by periods when I felt more confident in my behaviours, thoughts and fantasies. Anyway, I’ve been ‘self-treating’ for quite some time, (nothing weird, just trying to apply mindfulness, some common sense and acceptance into my anxiety cycles and (mostly) accidental exposures and triggers, and even though my emotional and physical responses didn’t really take a 180 degree turn, I’ve been able to push through anxiety, mostly by acceptance and finding worth in the things that define me. All said and done, I’m feeling more confident, more scared and more uncertain about this than ever (if this makes sense) because I’m at a point where all the intense anxiety is being replaced by acceptance, which is a scary thing on it’s own. Accepting that I have fluid sexual feelings and responses now puts things in the context of ”I know I’m not 100% straight (as defined by attraction/fantasy criteria), and that’s cool, but what if acceptance of the present and the feeling of liberation it brings is just me (gasp!) willingly inching closer and closer to gay? Should I even care, sometimes I dont even care about what’s going on in my head and I haven’t felt like that ever, it feels amazing! But is that good or bad?” TL;DR: Made progress, which lead to mixed feelings about my progress. Thank you immeasurably! Joe Jon Hershfield February 20, 2016 at 5:12 pm - Reply Frustration aside, it does sound like you are making progress. “100% anything” should be suspicious. Feelings should be mixed. That’s how feelings are. Just do your best to live a life outside of your head and in accordance with your values. Jesus March 9, 2016 at 8:49 am - Reply Hi John, I want to do this once only since so I apologize in advance if its long. I know this is or could be searching for reassurance however I want to know how to deal with things and structure my thoughts. A brief intro of myself is a normal dude at 17 I started being very active sexually (college). First OCD (I think) experience at 21 thought I had gotten a girl pregnant and left the country for school the morning after which started a series of events (HIV and STD’s) OCD etc. I overcame it mostly through constant testing that luckily is almost 100% certain yet the OCD lasted for over a year followed by depression, which I too overcame. Since then I continued very active sexually but I have had 4 experiences that have changed me. First “different” experience in France after excessive drinking (potentially being drugged in a very shady place or maybe I tell myself that) I ended up with a transgender person making out going to his/her place and almost having sex, somewhere in the middle I decided it was not my thing although I did grab the penis for a second in the moment. I was drunk and alone nobody would’ve known yet I still stopped so I don’t know how to interpret this, I constantly think about sex and I’m into almost anything a girl would tell me so I don’t know if its some hidden gay thought, or just experimenting or what. In any case I spent a couple days depressed anxious and with time I just forgot it. Second was actually a few experiences different girls giving me oral sex started poking the backdoor which I enjoyed, at first was anxious but I too let go since I’ve read much about the famous G spot and I considered it normal. This last one however was the cherry in the cake. After two more years of enjoying a lot (I mean it) of heterosexual sex and feeling fulfilled by a great yearlong relationship I came yet to another country. Third happened in Asia, After a night drinking and taking MDMA(once again) I ended up in a club where two gay guys approached and invited me for drinks to a different after hour club, I refused without any second thoughts yet when they told me their sister wanted to have sex with me I left with them. In the taxi I had an unseal erection almost ejaculation. I don’t know if it was some twisted orgy unconscious vibe or experimenting rush or I don’t know but the morning after I was confused and depressed as fuck. Everything’s downhill from there. I had a match with another transgender in Tinder and had an erection and I experimented stimulating myself anally but all of this just brought anxiety, remorse, self-loathing, depression and eventual suicide thoughts. I had sex with 3 more girls in the meanwhile having normal erections, a couple rounds a night and enjoyed them a lot, felt good the morning after however most of the time everything’s regular HOCD I cant tell what feelings are normal what makes me normally hard or not what I enjoy or not enjoy but sometimes I just feel like giving up quit trying to get better and just be mediocre. I don’t know how to treat this. Its obvious its got OCD involved, however theres more I think. As for the rest I don’t know is it an arousal addiction, bisexuality or what not. I just miss having a normal life, peace of mind and to know who I am. Any suggestion is welcome. I could get a lot more into detail but this is long enough. I thank you in advance for your time and patience. Jon Hershfield March 10, 2016 at 1:00 pm - Reply The running theme in your story is irresponsible drug use and co-occurring irresponsible sexual behavior with people you don’t seem to have feelings for. Trying to be certain and get the “right interpretation” of things that occurred during these interactions is compulsive. Sexual experimentation is fine if the intention is to express your interest in sexuality as you see it, but you appear to be running “experiments” on yourself that are driven only to get certainty about sexual orientation, a compulsion guaranteed to make you miserable. So there is clearly an obsessive fear of being gay and a compulsive approach to addressing it, but I think the more pressing issue interfering in your pursuit of happiness is the drug use and impulsive sexual behavior that makes you feel removed from your values. In your other post, you mentioned identifying with romantic comedies. This may be the other end of an unrealistic view of intimacy, but where does Tinder fall on this spectrum? In any case, to address the HOCD, you need to start by choosing to be open to uncertainty and willing to feel unsure without testing. Jesus March 9, 2016 at 9:05 am - Reply Briefly I forgot to kinda emphasize how genuinely I’ve always loved women, I know this is not to convince my self but at many points of my life I’ve been a classic dude, a good bum would kill me or a great pair of boobs. Genuinely make my heartbeat go faster thing that another dude never achieved however since this started that has disappeared and its both depressing and scary. I use to watch romantic comedies wih my ex and just love the happy ending imagine it to be mine with her now that I’ve lost hope it depresses me. Paige March 26, 2016 at 1:07 am - Reply Hi, for the last couple months I have been suffering from this. Firstly I will say that I am only fifteen years old. I have always liked boys. When I was little I had crushes on boys and was a total girly girl. I started having intrusive thoughts three years ago which has lead to this. I’m starting to question myself and everything around me. I don’t want to be gay. I never want to be gay. I’m very religious and so is my family. I feel if I tell them they will not accept it at all, they won’t understand that I cannot stop these thoughts from entering my head. I have a best friend, like most girls do, and we are really close. The other day we were watching a movie and she was resting her head on my shoulder when I got this irrational thought “what if I kissed her?” “Do I want to?” “Would I like it?” My stomach started hurting really bad and I got sweaty and had a lot of anxiety. I was getting so scared that I perform this irrational act. I was driving myself crazy and still am over this. I’m scared I’m gay, and I never want to be. I need help to understand why this is happening… Please Help!! Jon Hershfield March 30, 2016 at 8:37 pm - Reply Sorry you are feeling so distraught over this. You mentioned in your post that you believe you are suffering with “this” which I presume to mean the form of OCD discussed in this blog and the three that preceded it. So “why this is happening” may be best understood as you having an obsession. Your intrusive thoughts about sexualizing or romanticizing your friend are one of the common ways this obsession presents. Your efforts to prove you would never do something against your values only make you more insecure about your fear. My recommendation would be to ask your parents for help finding a therapist that specializes in OCD. If you feel you can’t tell them the content of your obsession, then don’t. You could tell them it’s so awful to you that you’ll only talk to a therapist about it. If you can’t access a therapist, then you’ll have to do your own CBT work, which is highlighted in these blogs and discussed in several different books on OCD. The sooner you stop trying to prove you won’t become gay, the sooner you will stop feeling threatened by your intrusive thoughts that you could become gay. I'mReallyAfraid March 28, 2016 at 8:30 pm - Reply I’m a 15 years old boy and 3 months ago ,I had a normal and happy life as a straight boy until i triggered an obsession(I might do grammatical mistakes,i’m not a native speaker of english)…Well , I always been afraid of gay people ,I couldn’t even think about 2 men having sex or kissing without getting desgusted and anxious.I couldn’t understood them like”What is in their mind?How could you do that with another man?” When I was watching movies with my parents/friends/myself ,if would appeared a scene with gay ,I would skip that part ,I would be too scared ,terrified I could say ,about that scene. Instead ,I was always attracted to women.I remember that I was in nursery school when I had my first crush (a girl) I think I was 6.At the age of 11, for the first time I was really attached to a girl from my school ,we were talking daily ,I blushed every time when I saw her and I was thinking a lot about her and I liked her 2 years or more.That was the first time when I felt love.(At least ,maximum that you could feel at that age).After her I fell in love with many girls.I started to masturbate on straight porn at the age of 10. In general ,I was masturbating a lot (On streight porn,only straight porn).Well ,everything start this year ,on my first high school year.In november 2015 I fell in love again ,but this time was different ,every feeling was intensified.I used to see her daily ,I’m pretty sure that I came to love her but we wasn’t in an official relationship..In December 2015 we broke up like we don’t even talk to each other anymore. Now ,the hell begins…On the day of 7 January (I will never forgot this date all my life) ,I got a little bit drunk with some friends and we were walking on the street late night.When a friend of mine (drunk as well) kissed me on the cheek and in my mind I was like (What the fu*k?).Anyway ,when I came home ,I watched some male models ,I used to watch pictures with male stars like David Beckham ,Brad Pitt ,etc I watched them just to see how they dress ,how they act ,I was admiring them.And the next second I told myself “What the f*uck ,a friend of mine kissed me on the cheek ,now I’m watching males ,what the f*ck?” then I started to ask myself like “What if I liked that kiss?” ,”What if i’m gay?” And then, I was terrified ,I think I was never in my life more scared then I was in that moment.Next day ,I didn’t think on something else ,I was starting the obsession.It took a week ,all that week I thought only about “What if i’m gay?” “My life would be destroyed” ,I was totally disgusted about that thoughts and I couldn’t get rid of them.The thoughts stopped for a few days because I started to be attracted of a girl from high school but I passed her (I found out that she is not my type of girl that I like).After that ,the intrusive thoughts appeared again but intensified this time.I was scared ,at school ,I didn’t let another male classmates to approach me ,I avoided all my classmates (boys) because I thought that I might start like them.When I was walking on the street ,I looked to men to see if i’m attracted to them and something in my mind started to tell me that i am attracted to them and i was like “No,No,please no,im streight”.More attention I paied ,more powerful and real thoughts started to look like.I started to imagine myself kissing another man ,i was totally desgusted and scared ,I felt a thrill in my body.I started to do a lot of tests ,watching gay porn to see if i’m aroused (I never got hard on them) ,imagine myself kissing with another man to check how i feel.I started to read about gay stories and sexual orientation to make sure that i’m not going to turn gay.I eliminated from my behavior every gesture that might “be gay” ,I started to pay attention on the way that I walk,the way that I stay on the chair,the way that I talk…just to make sure that my behavior streight.I was never faithful in God ,I considered myself atheist but after a mouth of this crap I started to belive in God ,I started to pray for myself ,I choose to die then being gay.All this time I couldn’t think to something else.I don’t watch my favourite TV Shows or movies anymore because i’m afraid that I might be attracted to male actors.I got anxious even when I pronounce the word “homosexual”.BUT ,I fell again in love with another girl ,I got into a relationship with her,I really liked her and my intrusive thoughts stopped,again.The relationship lasted just 2 weeks,after we broke up.I liked the way that she kiss,the way that she looks,she is a beautiful girl,but I found out that she wasn’t honest with me.After that relationship,thoughts about being gay came back,OCD told me something like “You re not really attracted to girls” and that made me sick.Everything was intensified ,I had moments when I was convinced that i’m gay ,I started to cry.All these thoughts were killing me ,made me sick ,I was disgusted ,I started to hate myself.I was asking myself 24/7 “What if i-m gay?” “What if I always been gay and i’m just in denial”.I felt like a scratch on my brain.I checked myself looking to pictures with naked man to see if i’m aroused (I always passed that test,I never got aroused)I became tired of all this crap ,I just wanted my past life.I started to sleep a lot (11-12-13 hours,I read that this is produced by stress)I started to read more about HOCD and I perfectly found myself there.I started to learn more about some therapies like CBT and ERP.I started to told myself “These are just thoughts ,it’s just in my head ,I have the power to do what I want to do,this thoughts are totally unrealistic and can’t turn me gay if my whole life I was attracted to women”.We are approaching from my actual condition… The anxiety was reduced ,I started to recover myself.The thoughts were reduced ,for the first time I started to enjoy my life with less stress ,masturbating at streight porn without asking myself if I am aroused by the women from the video or the man…I started to realise that all this staff was a big crap ,a week ago I was like “What was in my mind?”.I realised that everything was just in my mind ,was just ocd telling me all those lies.That happened one or two weeks ago..But 4-5 days ago ,the thoughts came back ,but this time ,I wasn’t anxious anymore ,they didn’t scare me anymore ,And I was “wtf?”…I started again with compulsions,checking myself ,imagining myself kissing a guy and im not scared about that anymore…But then ,OCD (I hope is still OCD) made me ask myself “What if it doesn t make me anxious because i m gay and i like these thoughts”…And this make me sick..I just don’t want to be gay ,I want to be straight ,hanging with girls.Last night I found on facebook a beautiful girl and she is in my high school ,I thought about her all night ,I like her a little ,I think she is so beautiful,I feel so right when i’m imagine myself with her.But after a few seconds OCD (I hope is still OCD) tells me that I don’t really like her (But in my mind I know I like her).Today ,in the bus station I saw a pretty girl ,I was looking sideways at her ,even in the bus,I was looking at her.When I came back from school ,I saw a guy on the street and checked myself imagining what I would feel If I would kiss him and we would be in a romantic moment.And my OCD (Again,I really hope OCD) made me feel that I like that ,that I might fell in love with him,and im not so anxious like i used to be,and this is scaring me ,when i’m thinking about that,in my mind i’m just telling myself “no,no,no,is disgusting,no,no” but i’m wondering why it doesn’t scratch my brain anymore when I’m thinking about that.Actually ,the fact that i’m not anxious ,make me anxious ,nervous.If you read all of my story,you’re a hero,now,what do you think about that?Is just OCD struggling or all of this nightmare that lasted more than 3 months really might turn me gay?I can’t find a man attractive like the way that I see a woman but somthing in my head keeps telling me that i’m in denial. Jon Hershfield March 30, 2016 at 8:50 pm - Reply There’s a lot going on in this comment, so I’ll just make a few brief comments. You seem to be engaging in a lot of self-reassurance and mental rituals designed to prove to yourself that you are not gay. You did what you described as CBT and your anxiety went down, but it sounds more like you just reassured yourself a lot and felt better, which really isn’t CBT, only to relapse over it later on. If you want to tackle this obsession, you need to stop checking and testing your feelings, do ERP to the idea that you may never lock down your sexual orientation, accept the presence of thoughts about denial instead of trying to neutralize them, and commit to behavioral choices that are in line with your values. If you have access to an OCD specialist or at least an OCD workbook, that would be useful. I'mReallyAfraid April 4, 2016 at 9:47 am - Reply As you said,my anxiety went down and when i try to do ERP to the idea that i may never lock down my sexual orientation and i imagine that maybe I will fell in love for a guy in future (imagining this without testing myself,without imagining myself with a guy) make me feel better,i mean,i feel how the stress disappear for a couple of seconds and every though about “being gay” dissapear.But next seconds ,I am afraid and i stop doing the ERP because i’m afraid that I might find pleasure in this and I will turn gay,i’m afraid that i might discover something about me that I didn’t know util now…Should I trust myself and continue practicing on that idea(knowing deep inside me that this can’t change my sexual orientation)?I spent my whole life being in love with girls and I never doubted my sexual orientation until i started this obsession ,I was a happy straight teen and honestly ,i’m really sad that this is happening to me and I can’t enjoy my life how i did in the past.There is no ocd therapist in my city and i look for help everywhere i can.Thanks Jon Hershfield April 7, 2016 at 2:26 pm - Reply You are saying that ERP works, but then when you get scared, you stop doing what works. You need to learn to do what works while also being scared. I'mReallyAfraid April 6, 2016 at 8:05 pm - Reply I need to do an update to the comment that is awaiting for moderation right now.I know that i said into it that i’m not capable to do erp to the idea that you suggested me because it was triggering a spike like “if i’m allright with that and the idea of accepting thoughts make me feel better and i feel like the hocd fade away ,maybe that’s because i’m gay” and after that I give up to your suggestion of ERP because i was too scared.Yesterday I made tha decision that you are a specialist and I should do what you told me so today I started to focus on the idea that maybe my sexual orientation could be fluid and i have to accept all those thoughts and uncertainity without testing anything.When I do that ,the obsession is diminuated and I don’t feel like I need to “check” anything like i used to do.I actually feel like the Ocd is fading away but i’m still sad,and I feel like i’m not straight anymore (even If I fell in love with a girl and i’m aroused at girls).I have a question: Is it normal to feel like i’m not straight anymore plus a general state of sadness? This is really making me upset ,I just want to enjoy girls and I really want to know if this is an attempt of the hocd to persist in my head.Beside this problem,I think the erp to the idea that maybe I’ll never remain straight and accepting every thought without compulsions ,is working.And another question:How is this going to end? I will woke up and be how I was in the past or the obsession is slowly fading away?What should I do next?Thanks,I really appreciate (P.S: Is a site called ocdla and they have a clinic in L.A wich is treating hocd,they have an online test wich says if you suffer from Hocd or not. I hited 23 boxes from 27 and they told me that I suffer from Hocd) As I already said,I miss my past life and I really want to take it back.Thanks,I really appreciate your work. Jon Hershfield April 7, 2016 at 8:56 pm - Reply >>>Is it normal to feel like i’m not straight anymore plus a general state of sadness? This is really making me upset ,I just want to enjoy girls and I really want to know if this is an attempt of the hocd to persist in my head. —-If you over-monitor your feelings, you will always find your feelings to be synthetic. You appear to be compulsively checking to see if you “feel straight” which is making you feel off. >>>>Beside this problem,I think the erp to the idea that maybe I’ll never remain straight and accepting every thought without compulsions ,is working.And another question:How is this going to end? I will woke up and be how I was in the past or the obsession is slowly fading away? —-Everyone’s different, but it’s probably best looked at like dieting or physical fitness. You notice over weeks that your clothes fit better. You don’t actually see the weight come off. Similarly, you may notice one day that it’s been a long time since you checked to see how you were doing. >>>What should I do next?Thanks,I really appreciate (P.S: Is a site called ocdla and they have a clinic in L.A wich is treating hocd,they have an online test wich says if you suffer from Hocd or not. I hited 23 boxes from 27 and they told me that I suffer from Hocd) —I don’t recommend taking any online tests seriously. They’re just marketing tools, not psychological evaluations. That being said, I would move forward as if you have OCD. You seem to be on to an approach that is working. I'mReallyAfraid April 10, 2016 at 8:59 pm I continued doing the erp,2 days ago i was in a bar where i saw a lot of lesbians and in that night i was expoused a lot.Me and my best friend (a couple of days i was afraid that i might sudenlly fell in love with him,having unwanted thoughts about kissing him) We started picking up girls ,I felt awensome in that night.Next day was the best day in this 4 months,I wasn’t worry about my sexual orientation and I felt that my straightness came back(in the last reply i told you that i feel like i lost my straightness) Of course,I stopped checking if i like girls as you said and know I beaten this problem.Today I decided to do more exposure,reading stories about coming out.Everything was fine until i started to check if i find myself in their stories and this made my hocd worse.I found an online chat with LGBT people(was a site for discussions not porn),I started to ask gay and Bi people about my problem.A few of them told me that i’m not gay but one of them told me that i might be Bi so today I developed a fear about being Bi,I want to be just straight,not even Bi,I told them what I told you in my first comment.Now i’m scared again ,I cried a few minutes ago.I’m afraid that maybe I don’t have hocd and this is making me sick.When i wrote to you for the first time I told you that I was afraid that i might fell in love with my best friend and I checked to see if I like kissing him and after a few days of checking, I felt nothing ( I was aspecting to feel disgust) and then i became afraid that i might like that.I have 2 questions: 1) Can hocd make me feel that i like those thoughts?I got terrified when I accidentally check and the though don’t bother me anymore.When I though that i may like this thoughts about kissing another guy are making me cry. 2)Could you say that I have Hocd ?I’m afraid that maybe those “false feelings” could be real and maybe I don’t have Hocd and this is destroying me.I know that i made a huge progress these days because yesterday I felt awensome ,I felt that I am going to take back my past life…and today everything run out of control again…I just need to know your opinion ,could you “diagnose” me with Ocd?I found every symptom in me. (P.S I don’t know it this mean something but since in know myself ,I was engaging in a lot of acts like”If i don’t run on the stairs in 15 seconds,my mom will do an accident” and i’m always reassuring about anything ex: at school I ask the teacher twice to see if he really gave me the mark that i think he gave me.)I just need to ask you because everything that you told me worked. Jon Hershfield April 12, 2016 at 2:00 pm You say you stopped compulsive checking and started to get better. Then you say you started to check again and got worse. I’m not sure you really need me to add any insights here. Alejandro March 29, 2016 at 12:01 am - Reply Hi. I think I can use some help today. I’ve been suffering of what I think is HOCD for about 4 years now. I´ve been diagnosed several times, but I am still doubting who I am. Besides, and althought doctors say I have OCD, I am, from Venezuela, and it has been really hard for me to find an OCD specialist. Something has been bugging lately, and that’s why I ask for your help. I had never had a gay fantasy in my life, and that was my proof I wasn´t gay (I know that is reassurence, but I can´t help it). But. a month ago, while I was trying to prove I wasn´t gay imagining gay scenarios, I thought about a handsome man, and it did nothing for me. But then, I thougth something like “If I look like that, I’d probably have a lot of sex” with women, of course. And I imagine myself as someone better looking, having straight sex, and it aroused me. I dindn´t imagine another man’s body, I believe, it was just me, having sex, imagining it would be easier if I was better looking. At that time, it reassured me, because I was being aroused by straight things. and not by gay thoughts. But a week ago, I thought that, although it was straight sex, it kind of involved another man. And that’s when I lost myself. I have been searching a lot, trying to find if that counts as a gay fantasy, and I am really scared. Sometimes I think it is normal, because it was a thought about straight sex, and if imagine just a handsome man, that looks like I wish I looked, it doesn´t arouse me. So, my question is: was that gay? Was that a gay fantasy? Am I accepting all my fears? Did I turned gay? Thak you very much for taking time to answer, your blog has always been really useful for me, and has helped me letting go some of my obssesions. Jon Hershfield March 31, 2016 at 1:25 am - Reply >>>>>Hi. I think I can use some help today. I’ve been suffering of what I think is HOCD for about 4 years now. I´ve been diagnosed several times, but I am still doubting who I am. —-Sounds like OCD so far. >>>>Besides, and althought doctors say I have OCD, I am, from Venezuela, and it has been really hard for me to find an OCD specialist. Something has been bugging lately, and that’s why I ask for your help. I had never had a gay fantasy in my life, and that was my proof I wasn´t gay —-How is the absence of a fantasy proof of something? I haven’t fantasized about going to Venezuela, but hadn’t considered this proof I would never go there. >>>>(I know that is reassurence, but I can´t help it). —Still sounds like OCD. >>>>But. a month ago, while I was trying to prove I wasn´t gay imagining gay scenarios, I thought about a handsome man, and it did nothing for me. But then, I thougth something like “If I look like that, I’d probably have a lot of sex” with women, of course. And I imagine myself as someone better looking, having straight sex, and it aroused me. I dindn´t imagine another man’s body, I believe, it was just me, having sex, imagining it would be easier if I was better looking. At that time, it reassured me, because I was being aroused by straight things. and not by gay thoughts. But a week ago, I thought that, although it was straight sex, it kind of involved another man. And that’s when I lost myself. I have been searching a lot, trying to find if that counts as a gay fantasy, and I am really scared. Sometimes I think it is normal, because it was a thought about straight sex, and if imagine just a handsome man, that looks like I wish I looked, it doesn´t arouse me. So, my question is: was that gay? Was that a gay fantasy? Am I accepting all my fears? Did I turned gay? Thak you very much for taking time to answer, your blog has always been really useful for me, and has helped me letting go some of my obssesions. —-There a few things going on here. First, you are not the first person I have encountered who became aroused by the male image as a function of imagining himself embodying that image. Actually, you’re not even the first person to contact me about this in the last week. So take from that what you will. Second, and more importantly, you are doing a ton of mental rituals that make it very unlikely for your obsession to improve at this time. The deep analysis, checking, testing, and ruminating are all behaviors that give the obsession a reason to stay and your brain a reason to think these mental investigations must have merit. A better strategy would be to interfere in your mental rituals and try not to figure out what is or is not fantasy and whether or not that is supposed to mean something. My recommendation is to implement CBT tools in the treatment of your OCD, preferably with the guidance of an ocd specialist therapist. Julian April 19, 2016 at 4:37 pm - Reply Dear Jon, Hope you are fine and enjoying the Maryland spring. I am back in the UK as my wife is doing a phd at a uni here. Fortunately i am on the waiting list for intensive CBT treatment,(god, do i need it after about 30 years with intrusive thoughts, gay fears, compulsions etc) ……about a 6 month waiting list as there is a bit of a NHS mental health crisis over here…I keep getting letters asking if i still want to be on the waiting list or if im ok now…..or topped myself already!…..not funny really as there are many cases of this while people are waiting. Fortunately , after big mental health campaigns in newspapers, ONGs etc the govt has pledged much more funding and training of therapists. Anyway, i cant wait to get started, I have been good, and busy with a new job (pretty menial but fun and pays the rent!) . I dont get the hocd thoughts so much, just the oral sex ones occasionally, these seem to have moved to my 3 yr old somewhere i get often incessant images , thoughts, sensations in my mouth when with him. These thoughts get me really down and i’ve been depressed the last few days. The thoughts are almost all the time, most of the day. I’ve been thinking about why i do compulsions? whats the point? why have i done them for so long? I will still have the thought , whether or not i do the compulsions! so why do them? They will not make thoughts that i have already had go away! Anyway, the think that kills me is that i am analysing the thoughts, to see if i like the thoughts, ( acting them out in my mind) I feel like a surge of adrenalin or anxiety all over my body which feels both good and not good, if that makes sense. Its a similar feeling to when you are angry or want to punch a driver who has gone thru a red light etc. It feel like an urge to do something prohibited or wrong , as if i want to do it. Why do i feel like this, is this common in oCD? whats the explanation? Other disgusting sick images (licking sucking) feel the same. Also as i would never do or have done such things, how can my mind know what it feels like? Also, i guess sucking anything feels nice, a lollipop, thumb, etc. With all these images, thoughts there is absolutely no sexual arousal whatsoever, could the thoughts be some kind of oral fettish or obsession. Can checking scenarios to see if i like them actually distort what i feel or think? Some advice would be welcome. I cant accept the fact that i may like these kinds of deplorable thoughts/simulations. Thanks Julian Jon Hershfield April 25, 2016 at 12:11 pm - Reply >>>>Fortunately i am on the waiting list for intensive CBT treatment,(god, do i need it after about 30 years with intrusive thoughts, gay fears, compulsions etc) ……about a 6 month waiting list as there is a bit of a NHS mental health crisis over here…I keep getting letters asking if i still want to be on the waiting list or if im ok now…..or topped myself already!…..not funny really as there are many cases of this while people are waiting. Fortunately , after big mental health campaigns in newspapers, ONGs etc the govt has pledged much more funding and training of therapists. —Sounds frustrating. Sorry you have to wait so long for treatment. >>>>Anyway, i cant wait to get started, I have been good, and busy with a new job (pretty menial but fun and pays the rent!) . I dont get the hocd thoughts so much, just the oral sex ones occasionally, these seem to have moved to my 3 yr old somewhere i get often incessant images , thoughts, sensations in my mouth when with him. These thoughts get me really down and i’ve been depressed the last few days. —Thoughts alone do not have the power to get someone down. Interpretations of those thoughts and behaviors related to those interpretations do. >>> The thoughts are almost all the time, most of the day. I’ve been thinking about why i do compulsions? whats the point? why have i done them for so long? I will still have the thought , whether or not i do the compulsions! so why do them? They will not make thoughts that i have already had go away! —Good observation. >>>>Anyway, the think that kills me is that i am analysing the thoughts, to see if i like the thoughts, ( acting them out in my mind) I feel like a surge of adrenalin or anxiety all over my body which feels both good and not good, if that makes sense. —What you’re describing is a compulsion. What happens during the course of a compulsion is not new evidence of anything other than you got burned while doing compulsion. It’s like the compulsive handwasher who wasn’t sure he was dirty, then washed for OCD reasons, then got triggered thinking he may have touched the dirty faucet in the process. >>>>Its a similar feeling to when you are angry or want to punch a driver who has gone thru a red light etc. It feel like an urge to do something prohibited or wrong , as if i want to do it. Why do i feel like this, is this common in oCD? whats the explanation? —This high level analysis is part of your mental ritual, not something to be answered. >>>Other disgusting sick images (licking sucking) feel the same. Also as i would never do or have done such things, how can my mind know what it feels like? Also, i guess sucking anything feels nice, a lollipop, thumb, etc. With all these images, thoughts there is absolutely no sexual arousal whatsoever, could the thoughts be some kind of oral fettish or obsession. Can checking scenarios to see if i like them actually distort what i feel or think? —Yes. >>>>Some advice would be welcome. I cant accept the fact that i may like these kinds of deplorable thoughts/simulations. —What is the alternative to accepting uncertainty? James April 23, 2016 at 12:45 am - Reply Sorry for my english,i might do some mistakes. I always have been attracted to girls and I had many crushes on girls since nursery school… I never considered myself different from other boys and I never doubted my sexual orientation.I was always staring at beautiful girls when I was with my friends or at school.I started masturbating when I was like ten and I was a happy straight kid.I knew about the existence of gay people since I was 11 (I heared at school about that) but I couldn’t understood them ,I was like “How could you like men instead of women, what a fools”.I was afraid of them ,even when I was watching a movie ,If would appear a scene with gay people kissing or holding their hands,I would have been disgusted.I always dreamed of being around hot girls and having sexy girlfriends so for me being with girls was an important thing.When I started my first year of high school ,I made a girfriend,everything was nice and beutiful.After broke up I fell in love with another girl.I must say that being in love with a girl was a part of my life,I mean ,I always had a girl in my head ,was something normal and pleasant for me.I used to look on google at pictures with stars like David Beckham or Chris Hemsworth and others, but not in a sexual way,I wanted to act like them ,to dress like them ,to look like them ,I was never in my life aroused by a man.One evening while I was looking at haircuts a though popped up in my head “Why am I looking to them?If I am gay?”This happened this year on January,in that night I was terrified ,I hardly fell asleep.Next day I couldn’t though about something else and I wanted this thoughts to disappear fast.I started to be sad and next days I started to avoid all my classmates(boys) ,I wouldn’t let any boy to approach me too much ,I started to review my past to see If I’ve done something gay.I started to check by looking at guys on street or at school to see if i like them and all this time I was terrified ,telling myself in my head “No,no,i-m not gay,please no”.I was rapt by what was happening around me,everything was only about checking if I am gay or not.In the past I used to watch movies and TV Serials but I quit watching all of them because I was afraid that I might become attracted to some of the male characters.I’ve done compulsions like:Imagining myself kissing another guy to see if i like that (wich was disgusting me),I started watching gay porn to see if i’m aroused and i felt something around my genital zone but wasn’t an erection was like a pressure given by me because I was anxious,scared that i might get an erection (wich didn’t happen).I started to pay attention on the way that I walk,the way that I dress,even the way that I sit on the chair to make sure that i’m not acting gay and i’m masculine.I considered myself an atheist but I started to pray to God for help,I felt hopeless,guilty and disgusted.I’m always seeking for reassurance ,I started to read about sexual orientation to make sure that is fixed and it can’t sudenlly change,I searched for gay stories to find out if they were always attracted by the the same sex to reassure myself that i’m still straight like I always have been.I calmed myself when I found out that gay people were attracted by the same sex at the age that I was attracted to the opposite sex but the obsession continued.After 3 months of this rentless routine stopped for a few days and the obsession was diminuated a lot because I fell in love with a girl and I had butterflies in my stomach and I was thinking at her.I started a happy relationship with her and I really felt good after a long time of doubting and sadness.For normal reasons,we broke up,I was upset because of this broke up.The obsession came back,I became tired of it so I searched for help,I found out about hocd earlier ,but from that moment I started to look for how to beat it.I started to say that i’m gay and I have to accept that.I kept this for a few days,of course those days were the most painful days that I ever went through.After those few days ,I couldn’t endure it anymore and I said “NO,NO,NO ,I’m not gay,I’M STRAIGHT like i always have been”.Of course,fighting the thoughts fueled the obsession.The disease won again.The routine of compulsions came back but this time something was different.When I imagined myself kissing another guy,it didn’t bother me like it used to do.In the next second I was totally terrified because of that and a though popped up in my head like”Maybe it doesn’t bother me anymore because i’m gay” and the anxiety intensified.When I started to analyze this more and more,the obsession was telling me that this is what I want and everytime I responsed to it with “no.no,stop,i don’t want that,I want my past life back”and it became more real…I tried not to let this ilness to ruinate my social life anymore,I started to talk to my friends again and hangout like we used to do.When I met my friends ,we started to talk,laugh,talking about girls(wich make me feel so good).suddenly,a thought popped up in my head”If I am attracted to my best friend?”( We are talking about one of my best friends and i know him for 4-5 years)And this terrified me,disgusted me.Fortunately ,this thought lasted short while(one or two days)I decided to fight this obsession but this time I was better informed.I tried to do “ERP” to the Idea that I MIGHT be gay ,knowing that hocd can’t change my sexual orientation.I stoped every type of checking and I tried to ignore if a moment of triggering would appear by saying”Yeah,of course,i-m gay”.Without realizing,I was checking to see if girls still arouse me and this made me feel like I lost my attraction to women(wich scared me,again).I solved this problem by stopping checking,when I stopped,the attraction to girls came back,wich calmed me.Now I’m doing a lot of erp,looking to things that would trigger the obsession without checking anything and for the last 2 weeks I guess,the obsession has diminuated a little bit but for a while,this ilness prepared another gun for me ,wich make me ask myself If i’m really suffering from HOCD or it’s just me in denial(this is making me very anxious)I had some desperate moments of hopeless since I triggered this obsession in Januray 7 when this ilness made me believe that i’m gay (temporary) and I cried a lot.I’m sorry that this was so long but it’s my entire story.My question is:From your experience,does this sound like OCD ?Thank you a lot,I appreciate your work. Jon Hershfield April 25, 2016 at 3:29 pm - Reply Yes Arthur April 25, 2016 at 7:23 am - Reply Hi Jon, great article you share there, it might explain a lot of my HOCD behavior(I am guy). But I had a question here, when I reading the “Loving Your Friends” section, I notice that you written “I can tell you what HOCD sufferers often fear is gay denial and simply isn’t: Anxious butterflies in your stomach when you get a call from or see your friend”, does this mean that HOCD sufferer won’t having a butterfly feeling towards there same-sex friend?(Sorry for my bad English). Jon Hershfield April 25, 2016 at 11:53 am - Reply No, I mean people in general may feel “butterflies” when they get a call from a friend. People with HOCD may misinterpret this as evidence of “gay denial”. Arthur April 25, 2016 at 12:45 pm - Reply Thank you for your explanation, as my first “attack” by HOCD was it seem like I am having a butterfly moment with my colleague, since then everything went hell. Rusty April 26, 2016 at 7:41 pm - Reply Alright, so here we go. I have been terrified that I have been gay for about 7 years, following a traumatic bullying experience. I’m 21 now. However whenever these questions would arise in the past, I was easily able to dismiss them as bogus because I was (and had always been) attracted to girls (tons of crushes, still a virgin however, have always had social anxiety and confidence issues), got aroused by them and what not. Simultaneously, these thoughts about being gay always disgusted me and I was able to dismiss them without too much thought. Fast forward to about 2-3 months ago. I had a childhood friend die of a suspected overdose and I subsequently got really depressed. One night at a party, a friend of mine asked me if I was gay (I have always suspected that he was himself), and since then I haven’t been able to definitively answer that question. I was unable to eat, drink, or sleep for a couple weeks and had massive panic attacks. I experienced no “arousal” from these thoughts and only fear, I heard about HOCD (I am constantly researching this topic). I eventually talked to a therapist, and the fears subsided (not completely) for a while, but they resurfaced. This time around using HOCD as an excuse simply doesn’t work, reading articles doesn’t give me the temporary calm it used too. I am pretty sure I just used it as a method for denial. I recently came to the conclusion that I was actually gay, and got actual arousal (not the BS groinal response OCD’ers experience) from these fantasies. However, after a couple days, these fantasies stopped really doing anything for me, and I couldn’t get it up for anything. Then without actively denying the presence of gay tendencies, I got aroused by an old female crush (on a couple of occasions, but one was rock-hard). After this I assumed, I was somewhere on the Kinsey Scale, not completely straight, but also not completely gay. This calmed me for a bit, but then a couple of days ago a friend directed a few gay slurs at me (not being aware of this issue that I had been having), and my house of cards simply collapsed. I couldn’t get it up for any fantasy/dream/porn for four days, but then this morning I was able to get off to the gay fantasies (and lesbian porn, for whatever reason) and my straight fantasies felt forced and numb. I am clearly obsessing over this issue, but I imagine true HOCD’ers never actually feel true arousal and some degree of enjoyment, correct? I think this post is a last ditch effort at trying to deny my true gay self. Although I have always been afraid (for 7 years) of this reality (which is why I think it is true, in addition to the sexual arousal). I am having difficulty accepting it as (complete) truth, for I have always had intense desires for girls and straight sex. I use to wake up every morning and go to sleep every night thinking about getting a girl and spending the rest of my life with her. Will I get this feeling back? Or am I permanently gay? I can’t see myself in a long term relationship with a man, or can I? Jon Hershfield May 4, 2016 at 9:38 pm - Reply There is a significant amount of rumination, confession, and reassurance seeking in this post that is hard to address line by line. You seem to have some concern that your ability to be aroused by one thing or another is some kind of a death sentence that pre-determines your orientation or fate. This kind of thinking is common in OCD. Testing your orientation through masturbation/pornography experiments is not going to produce reliable results, confidence, or least of all, certainty. My recommendation is to get CBT treatment from an OCD specialist. Rusty April 26, 2016 at 8:37 pm - Reply To add, when I get my mind of this “gay question,” which is rare I feel like my normal self. When I start obsessing or start doing some sort of compulsion (checking, attempted masturbation, reading forums like this), I just feel “gay.” But back when I thought I was straight, I never felt “straight.” It was just me. I never thought, “are you actually attracted to this girl.” I just knew I was. These gay urges/desires/arousal I’m getting now always come after a thought. I see a guy, and I say to myself, “do I want to have sex with him?” Its usually no (which I feel is denial), but there have been days and moments where I can definitively say “yes,” which sometimes scares me and sometimes doesn’t. One minute I might be laughing at the idea of having gay sex as absurd “hell no”, the next I will be paranoid about it “oh shit, am I gay,” and the next I will honestly feel into it and/or compelled to act on it, “let your guard down and enjoy it, you know its true.” When my previous crushes (on girls), for the most part happened instantaneously, without any obsessions, worries, or consideration (I think). I wasn’t worried I was gay when I was making out with this girl or that girl. Is this just part of the coming out process? Jon Hershfield May 4, 2016 at 9:40 pm - Reply As you point out, when you were not obsessed with your orientation, there was no thing as “feeling straight” and now you focus much attention on this mystical notion of “feeling gay.” This is common in this form of OCD. If you want to stop obsessing, you have to start accepting uncertainty, which means you have to stop testing your reaction to things or giving yourself these kind of mental quizzes. Darren May 2, 2016 at 6:49 pm - Reply Dear Mr. Hershfield, First I wanted to say thanks for the articles as they have really helped me out. I just had a couple of questions/statements and wanted to get your take on them. I’ve been going to therapy lately for my ocd, but I don’t feel like I’m getting anywhere. It’s like I get my reassurance, feel better for awhile, but then I continue to test and obsess over my orientation. This all started after I was watching pornogrophy, and (sorry to get graphic) I watched a woman preform oral sex. I felt like I had a “sensation” in my mouth and I immediately freaked out. I asked myself if I was gay and why would I have a feeling like that. After confiding in a friend he told me that “if that happens then you must want it”.. And after that everyday has been horrible. Which now leads me to my biggest problem, the testing. I test myself to gay and transsexual porn regularly and i feel like I’m starting to lose myself. When watching gay porn there is some slight arousal, but nothing much. But when it comes to transsexual porn there is way more arousal and this scares me. I honestly don’t feel as if I am gay, I’ve loved girls since I was a kid, and before this all I could think about was women, and how I wanted to be the perfect man for them. I definitely believe I have a porn problem, and I am working on that now before I try any ERP therapy.. My biggest question is just because I was aroused by porn that I feel like does not match my true orientation now mean that I am gay/bisexual?… I don’t like gay sex nor do I wanted to have it, but I obsess over this so much that everything is a blur. It’s like I don’t believe myself anymore. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Respectfully posted, Darren Jon Hershfield May 4, 2016 at 9:50 pm - Reply >>>>First I wanted to say thanks for the articles as they have really helped me out. I just had a couple of questions/statements and wanted to get your take on them. I’ve been going to therapy lately for my ocd, but I don’t feel like I’m getting anywhere. It’s like I get my reassurance, feel better for awhile, but then I continue to test and obsess over my orientation. —-If you are getting reassurance from your therapist, then you are not seeing a therapist that knows much about treating OCD. >>>>This all started after I was watching pornogrophy, and (sorry to get graphic) I watched a woman preform oral sex. I felt like I had a “sensation” in my mouth and I immediately freaked out. I asked myself if I was gay and why would I have a feeling like that. After confiding in a friend he told me that “if that happens then you must want it”. —Your friend sounds like a jerk. I watched someone eat toast in a movie once and felt a sensation in my mouth. Didn’t result in me getting up to make toast. Sensations happen. >>>>. And after that everyday has been horrible. Which now leads me to my biggest problem, the testing. I test myself to gay and transsexual porn regularly and i feel like I’m starting to lose myself. —You should stop this destructive and unnecessary behavior. >>>When watching gay porn there is some slight arousal, but nothing much. But when it comes to transsexual porn there is way more arousal and this scares me. —Wouldn’t it be reassuring since the transexual is presumably more female to you than the male? Regardless, what gets a person off in porno-land (which is not reality), provides zero evidence of what that person really wants in life. You need to stop doing the testing compulsion. >>>I honestly don’t feel as if I am gay, I’ve loved girls since I was a kid, and before this all I could think about was women, and how I wanted to be the perfect man for them. I definitely believe I have a porn problem, and I am working on that now before I try any ERP therapy.. ——Good. >>>>My biggest question is just because I was aroused by porn that I feel like does not match my true orientation now mean that I am gay/bisexual?… I don’t like gay sex nor do I wanted to have it, but I obsess over this so much that everything is a blur. It’s like I don’t believe myself anymore. Thanks for taking the time to read this. —It’s not for me to say what you are. All I can offer is my opinion, which is that any “evidence” you dig up from a compulsion, especially one involving porn, is worthless. If you are working on addressing the unhealthy aspects of your porn use and planning to get treatment for your OCD, then you are on the right track. Darren May 5, 2016 at 12:38 am - Reply Thanks for your reply as it has given me a lot of confidence. I think another big problem is the fact that I’ve always assumed that straight individuals would not be aroused by stimulus outside of their orientation and vise versa. Not only that, but it seems like between males (I could be wrong) if you do anything that is not masculine or “non straight” then you are automatically deemed as gay. Like commenting on another mans looks or using the word cute. So when I had that “non-straight” sensation/reaction to the pornography I felt like I could no longer be considered heterosexual. But, as you have stated that is all irrelevant. I’m going to try really hard to have confidence in my sexuality and refrain from testing myself mentally and through porn. Thanks again for your reply. You’ve honestly helped a lot. Jon Hershfield May 22, 2016 at 12:42 pm - Reply Glad I could help. This notion that there are “non-straight” behaviors and that if you acknowledge them in yourself, you are somehow less straight than you were before, is a socially constructed phenomenon that has no basis in science or reason. Sounds like you’re on the right track! Steve May 2, 2016 at 10:09 pm - Reply Great article Jon Hershfield May 4, 2016 at 9:52 pm - Reply Thanks! kay May 26, 2016 at 8:54 pm - Reply Can you recommended an HOCD specialist near eastern NC? I have found only one on the coast here, and need to await approval from my health insurance. I must admit to using these websites and forums as a compulsion to help feel not so alone and hopeless. I’m a married female with 2 beautiful children, my life to me is perfect! Except….. When these HOCD fears come and go. Is this a normal pattern? I have gone maybe over a year without them bothering me. But exactly a week ago today, something struck the cord- and here I am again. I over analyze so of course I try to find a reason to why they have come back. I just want to go back to my life a week ago. When I wasn’t bothered by these doubts. I doubt if I love my husband, after 10 yrs of marriage since I have been feeling as though our busy lives have strained our ” affection to each other. Which I think is pretty common with jobs, kids etc. I question why am I not checking out other guys? Answer- bc I’m married- but mean HOCD doesn’t let me believe that. What if I’m gay and don’t know it ? Ridiculous it is, but yet it causes sooooo much anxiety and fear in me. Have done therapy but not ERT. Could that be why it still comes back? Or does stress/ hormones trigger as well? All I want is my life with my husband and kids, I want this all to stop and just leave me alone!!!! Any advice appreciated! Jon Hershfield May 27, 2016 at 2:04 pm - Reply >>>>Can you recommended an HOCD specialist near eastern NC? I have found only one on the coast here, and need to await approval from my health insurance. —The only names that come to mind in NC are Jonathan Abramowitz and Reid Wilson, which are both in the Chapel Hill area. They may do teletherapy in NC or they may know someone on the coast that they would recommend. You can also look here: iocdf.org/find-help/ >>>I must admit to using these websites and forums as a compulsion to help feel not so alone and hopeless. I’m a married female with 2 beautiful children, my life to me is perfect! Except….. When these HOCD fears come and go. Is this a normal pattern? I have gone maybe over a year without them bothering me. But exactly a week ago today, something struck the cord- and here I am again. I over analyze so of course I try to find a reason to why they have come back. I just want to go back to my life a week ago. When I wasn’t bothered by these doubts. —-It is normal for OCD to wax and wane and also to be exacerbated by stress and transitions (new jobs, moving, etc). >>>I doubt if I love my husband, after 10 yrs of marriage since I have been feeling as though our busy lives have strained our ” affection to each other. —Relationship substantiation obsessions and HOCD often go hand in hand. >>>Which I think is pretty common with jobs, kids etc. I question why am I not checking out other guys? Answer- bc I’m married- but mean HOCD doesn’t let me believe that. —Maybe you are checking out other guys but not allowing yourself to notice it because you keep compulsively analyzing whether you are checking out guys. >>>What if I’m gay and don’t know it ? Ridiculous it is, but yet it causes sooooo much anxiety and fear in me. Have done therapy but not ERT. Could that be why it still comes back? —Yes. >>>>Or does stress/ hormones trigger as well? —-Yes. >>>All I want is my life with my husband and kids, I want this all to stop and just leave me alone!!!! Any advice appreciated! —My recommendation is to start doing ERP with an OCD specialist if you can. And instead of looking at these doubtful thoughts as contaminants interfering in your happy family life, try to view them as just additional details (thoughts, feelings, etc) that you can make space for without getting certainty about them. Stefanny June 10, 2016 at 11:41 pm - Reply Hey Doctor, so I was having most of the HOCD symptoms since last year till the begin of this year (more or less) but now they aren’t as strong as they used to, I kinda don’t have symptoms anymore even though I get triggered most days is just not the same way. Should I still go see a doctor? Should I go to the doctor now that I’m calm or I have gone before when the symptoms were strong? I still am anxious and still fear it but now is kinda more generalised… I don’t know how to explain. Should I treat depression first? I feel like I’m kinda indifferent to these fear now, I’m tired. Jon Hershfield June 14, 2016 at 7:15 pm - Reply Sorry, but these are not easy questions to answer via blog comment. You sound like you might be experiencing some depression, which can coincide with a reduction in anxiety without you having really made any progress in the OCD, which may be what’s making you depressed. So yes, I would still seek professional help. ReallyAfraid June 27, 2016 at 12:50 am - Reply Hi Dr.Jon ,I’ve suffered from Hocd for almost 7 months.All this months I tried many many methods to overcome this.I think this is the 4 th comment that I send to you and I tried to do exactly what you told me to do and I can say that it works and I really thank you for that.It least about 5 months for me to really understand how is hocd working.Almost a month ago I started to don’t care anymore about it and accept whatever it is telling me without analyzing and checking anything.This last month I almost defended it ,I was spending only a few minutes thinking about hocd staff (I would normally spend my whole day thinking bout’ it).And of course I fell in love for a girl and I started to talk to her.I finally started to live me life again.So ,I talked with this girl ,I really really liked her but after a week we had a boring dialog and of course my attraction started to get lower a bit.This was a major spike…” What if this is because im gay” “what if im not straight anymore” and all that staff….And this is my actual problem…How should I deal with this spike? I want to start a relationship with that girl. Jon Hershfield June 30, 2016 at 3:47 pm - Reply First, congratulations on standing up to your OCD and I am glad to hear that you are seeing results. My recommendation is you continue to do so and double-down on your commitment to do what you want without consulting the OCD. If the OCD tells you that unwanted feelings about the girl mean you’re gay, then so be it. If you want to be with the girl, be with her and have unwanted thoughts (like the rest of us). Darren August 9, 2016 at 7:23 pm - Reply Okay so I’ve been trying hard to have confidence the past 3 months and I’m only now starting to see slight inprovments. I know for a fact that I don’t like men sexually or romantically, but I can’t seem to get over the intrusive thoughts. To make matters worse every time I talk to another male customer at my job I feel like my face gets really fuzzy. I don’t know if I’m blushing or what, but it isn’t like “I like you kind of blush”. It’s more of a good feeling because I like to help people if that makes any sense. I enjoy helping others and I feel like that’s where that feeling comes from. I sometimes get it with girls, but I always get it with the male customers. Its more like comradery I guess, but I freaks me out and it’s getting annoying. I remember always getting this feeling in highschool when I would make friends with the other guys or on the football field when supporting each other, or even just giving each other high fives and stuff. I’m really trying not to let things like this bother me because even as I type this out is sounds ridiculous. I don’t know what’s wrong with me I know I love women, but every time there’s a handsome guy around I can’t help but get triggered. Any extra advice ? Jon Hershfield August 11, 2016 at 2:12 pm - Reply >>>>>Okay so I’ve been trying hard to have confidence the past 3 months and I’m only now starting to see slight inprovments. I know for a fact that I don’t like men sexually or romantically, but I can’t seem to get over the intrusive thoughts. —I’m not sure what you call a fact is the same thing I call a fact. You are confident in your heterosexuality. Good. This does not mean we are certain. We don;t need certainty when we have confidence. >>>To make matters worse every time I talk to another male customer at my job I feel like my face gets really fuzzy. I don’t know if I’m blushing or what, but it isn’t like “I like you kind of blush”. It’s more of a good feeling because I like to help people if that makes any sense. I enjoy helping others and I feel like that’s where that feeling comes from. I sometimes get it with girls, but I always get it with the male customers. Its more like comradery I guess, but I freaks me out and it’s getting annoying. I remember always getting this feeling in highschool when I would make friends with the other guys or on the football field when supporting each other, or even just giving each other high fives and stuff. —It seems you are making a choice to read into a physical sensation in your face instead of simply accepting that you have physical sensation in your face. Your efforts to explain it here may be best understood as another certainty-seeking compulsion. >>>>I’m really trying not to let things like this bother me because even as I type this out is sounds ridiculous. I don’t know what’s wrong with me I know I love women, but every time there’s a handsome guy around I can’t help but get triggered. Any extra advice ? —You have to let things bother you if they bother you. But you don’t have to devote this much attention to the feeling of being bothered. It’s just one of many feelings that come and go as they please. My recommendation is to open up and allow the sensations in your face to be a part of the present moment and then choose not to put any effort into explaining to yourself why the sensation happened in any given situation. Jesse August 19, 2016 at 8:53 pm - Reply Hi dr. Jon ,is my 9th month of hocd and I’ve almost beat it,I accepted everything,I stoped doing compolsions like checking and reassuring myself and I tried to live my normal life again wich really worked for me beacuse the obsession is gone but i still have spikes like the next one that I’d like to ask you about beacuse there’s nothing on internet about it.I did’t experience this until a few days ago,I started to blush in front of good looking guys or even to friends wich didn’t happen to me in all this 9 months of hocd .I have to say that I always had this problem but in front of girls that I like and different sittuations (I think I have social anxiety too ,and I had it since I know myself but only now I discovered what is and I think that interferences with hocd).And is not only in front of guys,I started to blush even in front of friends when they joke (not about gay things) or other normal social contacts.Do you think that it is a symphtom of Hocd ?I’d really like to know your opinion about that.I always liked girls and I never considered myself different until 9 months ago when a thought pop up in my head and since the it stucked in my head…Now i’m quiet fine ,i was really bad,hopeless and disperate with all the symphtoms of hocd but those blushed really makes me sick.Thanks Jon Hershfield August 29, 2016 at 9:32 pm - Reply Blushing is a common physical response to anxiety and since you know you have social anxiety, then it would make the most sense to attribute this physical response to that and view it as a normal physical experience in your face that doesn’t need to be treated as a threat and doesn’t need any additional narratives. You could engage in social interactions, allow yourself to blush, and keep engaging in social interactions while blushing as ERP. Matt September 17, 2016 at 9:47 pm - Reply I was outed as bisexual at age 8 on the playground so I have always viewed gay and straight people as the “other” because many gay people hate bisexuals and I am 35 etc. I find that the sexual orientation OCD started with that bisexual men don’t exist article because my behavior got me labeled that as a kid. I personally took homophobia on violently in self defense when I was beat up and the goth community and my flagrant bisexuality wasn’t the issue. I am dating a bi woman now and I get panicked if I am approached for a date by hetero or gay people because I like the ambiguous, cocky, don’t care 1990’s bisexual culture as I had that experience. So it scares me that because they opened their minds last year and expect me to get over it that people think I am gay or straight and I am both so to call me one or the other is reductive. I am hetero OCDing it now. Oddly enough, we laugh at the people calling us fakes and liars and mock the gay and straight drama when I date a bi woman. I hear they are bad moms and she hears that I am gay and spread AIDS etc. It’s odd because, I have never dated them and don’t get into their drama. I hate it because I was a vile, slur slinging homophobe for a month or two after that article was being held as gold when it was a poor study with an agenda. And 19 year olds that were “bi” when I was 19 have 80% gone gay or straight so I don’t trust it. I dumped an ex girlfriend for trying to initiate a group thing with a bi girl and curious hetero guy. I never used to even care about this either. My doctor treats my bipolar and ADHD and she doesn’t see enough OCD symptoms to diagnose it and thinks the bisexuality obsessions and compulsions are just liberation. But I will panic now and fear that I will be seen as gay or straight and my girlfriend will dump me (or boyfriend in the future and with 2 bi men, it’s the same too). Sexual stimuli isn’t my issue because I was in 3 and 4 person bisexual relationships when I was 15 and very obnoxious about it. Jon Hershfield September 22, 2016 at 6:42 pm - Reply Hi and thanks for sharing your perspective. I’m not clear if you have a question I can answer. It seems that you have a fear of being mislabelled and that this may stem from some traumatic experiences you had in your youth. If you were to treat this fear as an obsession, then exposure therapy would be aimed towards efforts to feel uncertain about how you might get labelled by people. michael September 25, 2016 at 9:58 am - Reply personally, I’ve derived great benefit from mindfulness, but I have yet to find a therapist who believes I actually have HOCD instead of some other issue. Their reasoning is that I don’t present any other types of OCD symptoms outside of “HOCD”. Jon Hershfield September 29, 2016 at 12:21 pm - Reply Therapists who do not specialize in OCD are more likely to make the assumption that OCD must involve either a wide spectrum of obsessions or hand washing. Stephanie September 26, 2016 at 7:52 pm - Reply Hey doctor, how are you? So… I am struggling with my sexuality for more than 2 years now and reading about hocd it seems like it could be it but I haven’t been diagnosed yet because of fears and doubts and others things. It’s confusing because my mind won’t stop obssesing of things that I see or feel or that I think etc but at the same time I kinda have this sensation that I don’t need help. I feel calm??, I guess, not happy or better, maybe used to all that going on inside my head that the thought of not be like this anymore scares me a little bit. It weird to imagine myself not so anxious all the time, it seems dangerous to imagine that. But as I said, I’m struggling with my sexuality and I have already tried to remember and analyze everything that I have done to this day to try to understand myself, and what causes me more anxiety and doubts are my “porn past”… I stared watching porn very young and after I grow up a little bit it started to not excited me anymore. I only watched straight porn, really wasn’t interresed in lesbian/gay porn, so I started to watch something very taboo and I think I kinda get addicted to it, after I noticed how wrong and disgusting that was I tried to stop and for a while I couldn’t, that would stay stuck inside my head and only could stop thinking about that when I watched at least one. Now I’m happily free, and I could not feel better even thought I still obssess over it, like I regret watching that so much I woory about what kinda of person I’m for enjoying that for a while. The thing is.. I was on tumblr today and saw a post about girls who like girls and they used to watch porn with girls they thought was hot, I always considered myself to be straight because of my historic of sexual attraction, but after all that I tried to watch straight porn again but in a kinda of way the girls body was what would made me watch the video, like porn never was that exciting for me and neither the guy or the girl used to turned me on (I guess, I can’t remember for sure). but that taboo videos that I used to watch, did and the main person was always girls, like always. Wish made me wonder if that was why I liked that. I just thought that the cenario of the scene that used to attract me to watch, but I don’t know I still can’t myself to be atleast 10% sure of anything and it drives me mad. I feel like i’m forcing myself to be anxious about these things. I was very anxious when I started to write it, even opened a porn site to see if that was true, but I’m relaxed now and don’t even have a question. Sometimes I just have this urge to tell someone what’s going on with me but I never really do, only online sometimes, I do that quite a lot inside my head, I always see myself going to therapy and talking and talking but I never really go, I just have nothing or desire to fight for anymore… anyway, anything that you have to say to me would be very nice. Jon Hershfield September 30, 2016 at 7:31 pm - Reply Pornography is an unreliable and truly useless tool for identifying one’s orientation or even their predispositions. Most heterosexual women prefer lesbian pornography. Further, anything that is taboo is going to cause greater activation. Whether this activation manifests as disgust or arousal seems only related to what the person is telling themselves about the experience. It does not seem related to anything particularly scientific. My recommendation is to stop using pornography (or your mental review of pornography from the past) as tools for getting certainty. Instead, accept that, like everyone else, you have a sexual mind that doesn’t follow a straight line and spending all of your energy trying to get certain about it is not in your best interest. Given the amount of time you spend ruminating on the subject, it’s probably a good idea to seek professional help from an ocd specialist as well. Andre October 13, 2016 at 1:31 pm - Reply Dr. Hershfield, Thank you for your article, it has helped me before. Sadly I believe to have been suffering from this manifestation of OCD since I was 16 when my girlfriend asked me if I was gay. I got very angry when she asked and she said people at school said I was. I immediately asked myself why I got so upset, was I secretly gay? I began to pay close attention to the way I walked, talked, dressed to make sure I wasn’t giving off that vibe. 2 years later at college a friend told me he would swear I was gay if it wasn’t for my girlfriend. I began to get paranoid and would begin to avoid music I liked and other things I associated with homosexuality. I began to compulsively masterbate to lesbian porn, even straight porn had a guy in it and was too gay for me to watch. I began to check if I thought other guys were attractive, I would imagine kissing them and feel repulsed. I googled how to know if your gay/bi. I don’t remember how I got over it. My fears moved to health anxiety over the next several years, heart attack, HIV, cancer, etc. when I was 24 watching a tv show with my fiancé two gay males were on it and the thought popped back in my head, what if I’m gay? Again with the questioning and checking. It hit full speed the next year before I got married. I completely collapsed, I lost 30 lbs, couldn’t eat couldn’t sleep reviewed every relationship I was ever in and wondered if my whole life has been a lie. Every interaction with a male there was a thought of me kissing him and something in my mind would say, “he’s hot”. It was relentless. It was then I discovered OCD and pure-o and felt this overwhelming relief that I wasn’t crazy. I practiced some mindfulness and attempted self erp during this time, my therapist did not understand my worries. I eventually came to the whatever type attitude. It helped but the thoughts would still come from time to time. I am now 28 and back in the hole with this obsession. Now it has become the what if I want to be gay and that’s why it keeps coming back!? What if I don’t love my wife? What if I’m not truly happy and that’s why this comes back and that’s why this theme has persisted for so long. My therapist told me it was uncommon to see this obsession persevere for so many years. I have gone to more extreme compulsions having to imagine myself in homosexual situations and test if I would like them. I try to accept the thoughts and sadly feel that this will ultimately become my reality and that I am a liar and not who I thought/hoped I was. I am devastated that I will never overcome this and terrified that beating this means becoming gay. I fear never to be able to stop thinking these things and live happily. Sadly many doctors I see do not believe I suffer from ocd and I have lost hope. Jon Hershfield October 21, 2016 at 1:51 pm - Reply Sounds like you’ve been through a lot. I don;t know what your therapist is talking about. I’ve seen several clients stuck with obsessions like these for decades because they never got proper treatment. You describe doing some significant compulsions which are making you worse. Testing yourself in imagined scenarios pretty much locks you in deeper to the obsession. If you want to stop being a slave to your “what if” mind, you need to be doing cognitive behavioral therapy and ERP, preferably with an ocd specialist if you can access one. Otherwise use a self-help book. You say you fear never being able to stop thinking these things and live happily. The first thing you need to understand is that the presence or absence of any particular thought has nothing to do with happiness. Darren October 22, 2016 at 4:59 pm - Reply First I wanted to say thanks again for all your help. I made it a goal of mine to not comment on your articles until I made real progress which I feel like I finally have. I feel ten times better and you were definitely apart of that. I still have intrusive thoughts about being gay of course, but it’s been so much easier to ignore it and move on with my day. I have even been able to talk to men and have whatever sensation in my face or where ever happen and still have confidence in my orientation. Plus I feel like my old self at times because I find myself having fantasies about women/developing crushes on women at work/school. This leads me to my last obstacle which is the porn. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t addicted. I no longer watch porn to test myself, but to fulfill fantasies about women. Which is good I guess, but the problem is whenever I watch straight pornogrophy I can’t help but have intrusive thoughts, feelings, and sensations about the male in the video and in the moment I feels so real. I know that I have conditioned myself to this response due to me obsessing/testing myself for the past year. Plus I’ve watched porn since I was 12 (I’m 19 now) and during all my years of watching porn I’ve never had any type of intrusive thoughts about a naked man. Like I’ve said before this all started a couple months after I turned 18 when my friend called me Gay after I seeked reassurance from him. So, my question is how should I go about “unconditioning” myself when it comes to porn and my thoughts/feelings/sensations in the real world? I know I should stay away from porn completely, but it bothers me when I go to watch porn for women and end up having weird thoughts about the guy. It makes me feel like I need to keep watching to prove myself, and to get back to the “old days” when I didnt have any though/sensation when it came to another male. thanks again for your help and patience with me. Jon Hershfield October 27, 2016 at 12:26 pm - Reply That’s great that are doing better! As far as porn goes, there may be a few things to consider. First, you use the term “addicted” but then go on to describe your use as an otherwise healthy way to explore and express your fantasies, so it might be worth approaching the word “addiction” with some skepticism. That being said, there may be UNhealthy attachments to pornography that are worth addressing, particularly if it is causing financial, time consumption, or relationship problems. In terms of your intrusive thoughts about men in porn, it is not advisable to ever try to “get back to the old days” on anything. The old days were not as great as you think. New days are days where you are more open and accepting of what your mind may offer and this may sometimes include random or “weird” thoughts. Without compulsively testing, I would encourage you to attempt to allow yourself to enjoy whatever you enjoy and allow for whatever other thoughts might come along for the ride. For example, most heterosexual men would acknowledge a preference in heterosexual porn for a good looking male performer, someone they might aspire to be or whose image is not off-putting. Can you allow yourself to accept positive thoughts about male performers in these scenes without making it a deep analysis of your orientation? Instead of “unconditioning” away from a specific thought, try reconditioning toward greater mindfulness. Darren October 27, 2016 at 3:05 pm - Reply Thanks for your reply. The reason I said i was addicted is because I have a habit of watching porn daily, and find it very difficult to stop. It will definitely be a challenge to accept thoughts about men all while trying to enjoy my fantises about women, but I will attempt to do so in the future. Although I think for now I am going to stop watching porn, because it always seems to make things worse. However I am curious, why would not getting back to the “old days” when none of this was a problem not be my goal? Also, what bothers me the most about porn is the fact that I can’t help but have intrusive thoughts about me doing what it is that the women are doing to the men. Like I said previously I watch porn to fulfill my fantasies about women, but when watching porn I have intrusive feelings and sensations from the womans perspective. Then the fear and doubt overwhelm me and I began asking questions like “why does this feel so real” “are you sure you wouldn’t want to do this” and i have weird feelings like I do what to do these things, when I know/have confidence that I don’t want to do them. Would my approach to this problem be the same as well? Which is like you said to enjoy what I enjoy and accept the intrusive thoughts about me doing things to men? I know it’s impossible to understand who I am as a person over a blog comment, but I am confident that I want women romantically and sexually and not men. Jon Hershfield October 29, 2016 at 1:35 pm - Reply >>>>Thanks for your reply. The reason I said i was addicted is because I have a habit of watching porn daily, and find it very difficult to stop. —I see. Well, a relationship with any person, thing, or activity can be healthy (adds value to your life) or unhealthy (mostly detracts from your life). We have to make difficult choices sometimes to take care of our health. >>>> It will definitely be a challenge to accept thoughts about men all while trying to enjoy my fantises about women, but I will attempt to do so in the future. Although I think for now I am going to stop watching porn, because it always seems to make things worse. —It sounds like at the very least it would be useful to take a hiatus from porn for now. If you can;t enjoy it without doing compulsions, then better to step away and come back to it later when you can truly enjoy it freely. >>>>However I am curious, why would not getting back to the “old days” when none of this was a problem not be my goal? —Because the “old days” have no memory or insights related to the experiences you have had since this started. If the plan is to return to a place where you have not been changed (positively or otherwise) buy your experiences, then the plan is to return to a fictional place. This may be semantics, but my point is that you should look forward to not being burdened by your OCD, but that new version of you will still include an awareness that this obsession was a problem in your life that you fought to overcome. >>>>Also, what bothers me the most about porn is the fact that I can’t help but have intrusive thoughts about me doing what it is that the women are doing to the men. Like I said previously I watch porn to fulfill my fantasies about women, but when watching porn I have intrusive feelings and sensations from the womans perspective. —They are intrusive because you treat them as intruders instead of just viewing them as normal passing thoughts you don’t need to defend yourself from. >>>>Then the fear and doubt overwhelm me and I began asking questions like “why does this feel so real” “are you sure you wouldn’t want to do this” and i have weird feelings like I do what to do these things, when I know/have confidence that I don’t want to do them. —These are common OCD testing questions. Attempts to answer them are common compulsions. >>>>Would my approach to this problem be the same as well? Which is like you said to enjoy what I enjoy and accept the intrusive thoughts about me doing things to men? I know it’s impossible to understand who I am as a person over a blog comment, but I am confident that I want women romantically and sexually and not men. —I don’t know you of course, but you sound like most men I encounter with this obsession. If you want the thoughts to stop intruding, you have to stop treating them as intruders and start allowing them to come and go as they please, as you do most thoughts. SQ November 3, 2016 at 7:01 am - Reply Hi Jon, I’ve written a few times in the past regarding HOCD. Over the years it has improved greatly and I’ve gotten used to dismissing my thoughts and feelings and just telling myself “who cares?” this has helped alot and I’ve been better about letting things go. Over the past few months I have had some boy issues and things didn’t work out how I wanted them to with someone and this caused me to realize how much I do care about the opposite sex and how much I would want a relationship with the opposite sex. But lately (maybe because I’m getting over someone) I’ve been thinking more about some thoughts and feelings I do have that I dismiss as HOCD and I worry that maybe why I haven’t had alot of relationships with guys is because of some of these thoughts and feelings. I’ve come to the conclusion over the years that yes I do have arousal towards girls and I do take notice when a girl is pretty (I think this is sometimes just in comparison with myself) . But I can’t see myself really being with a girl and having a life and relationship with a girl like I would with a guy at all. But what concerns me is that I feel like the crushes/guys I like is few and far between and I notice I do have more arousal towards girls than guys. But when I do feel an arousal feeling towards girls I try to let myself think about it further (to see if I really want to be with a girl), but I just can’t its like I only feel it in a moment and move on. It gives me a gross/tense/disgusting feeling to go any further thinking about whereas when I feel it towards a guy I don’t mind thinking about it at all. But I do believe those arousal feelings are real when I do feel them. My question is how can I want to be with a guy when I still have some feelings like this towards girls and even sometimes more often than what I feel for a guy? How can I still be straight when those two feelings occupy the same space? I’ve had a crush on a guy and I’ve still felt these feelings? Then I wonder am I just in denial? Am I just forcing myself to like a guy? But I don’t think I’am in denial because I just don’t want to be with a girl like that, I just can’t see it and I’ve been really upset over things not working out with a guy. But sometimes I just wonder if I should push myself and try to imagine a life with girls since I feel those feelings maybe I’ve just been stifling them for so long and dismissing them for HOCD when maybe its something I need to explore; but when I do it just makes me miserable and I don’t like it! I know its just a feeling shouldn’t matter in the big picture and its not a threat to how I want to live my life, but I just wonder why I feel it in the first place? When I do feel arousal for guys I don’t feel it immediately (usually; sometimes I do), but it has to build up more and the more I get to know him the more I like him and I feel it. That even concerns me like “why isn’t it instantaneous?” like some of the feelings I feel towards a girl, or is that normal? Thanks for reading this long message and thanks so much for your time! Jon Hershfield November 28, 2016 at 2:20 pm - Reply >>>>I’ve come to the conclusion over the years that yes I do have arousal towards girls and I do take notice when a girl is pretty (I think this is sometimes just in comparison with myself) . But I can’t see myself really being with a girl and having a life and relationship with a girl like I would with a guy at all. —There was an episode of the sitcom “New Girl” recently where one of the male characters claimed not to be able to tell that a male model was good looking. In the end he concluded that he was capable of telling a guy was attractive by asking himself if he wouldn’t mind waking up and looking like that guy. I think the moral of the story is not to take yourself too seriously. >>>>But what concerns me is that I feel like the crushes/guys I like is few and far between and I notice I do have more arousal towards girls than guys. But when I do feel an arousal feeling towards girls I try to let myself think about it further (to see if I really want to be with a girl), but I just can’t its like I only feel it in a moment and move on. It gives me a gross/tense/disgusting feeling to go any further thinking about whereas when I feel it towards a guy I don’t mind thinking about it at all. But I do believe those arousal feelings are real when I do feel them. —-It sounds like you are still engaging in a fair amount of compulsive testing, and this interferes in your ability to think clearly about this issue. >>>>My question is how can I want to be with a guy when I still have some feelings like this towards girls and even sometimes more often than what I feel for a guy? How can I still be straight when those two feelings occupy the same space? —-A better question is why you think two feelings can’t occupy the same space. I love my children. I also feel angry at them a lot (especially around bed time). Should I read into this? >>>>>I’ve had a crush on a guy and I’ve still felt these feelings? Then I wonder am I just in denial? Am I just forcing myself to like a guy? But I don’t think I’am in denial because I just don’t want to be with a girl like that, I just can’t see it and I’ve been really upset over things not working out with a guy. But sometimes I just wonder if I should push myself and try to imagine a life with girls since I feel those feelings maybe I’ve just been stifling them for so long and dismissing them for HOCD when maybe its something I need to explore; but when I do it just makes me miserable and I don’t like it! —-I think your time is better spent pursuing relationships with whomever seems to be treating you well and making you happy. To do this, you will have to open up and accept uncertainty that you may be choosing “wrong” somehow and stop compulsively trying to prove otherwise. >>>>I know its just a feeling shouldn’t matter in the big picture and its not a threat to how I want to live my life, but I just wonder why I feel it in the first place? When I do feel arousal for guys I don’t feel it immediately (usually; sometimes I do), but it has to build up more and the more I get to know him the more I like him and I feel it. That even concerns me like “why isn’t it instantaneous?” like some of the feelings I feel towards a girl, or is that normal? —You are overanalyzing your reactions, which produces all kinds of unhelpful results for you. Instead of trying to figure out why you feel what you feel, work on accepting whatever you feel in each moment. But, for what it’s worth, people generally find taboo thoughts more immediately stimulating than other thoughts, so reading into this is pointless. Dan November 3, 2016 at 7:21 pm - Reply Hi Doctor. I’m sorry to bother you again, but I’ve been stucked for a while whit the same thought, and I don’t know how to get over it. While doing one of my testing ‘exercises’, I decided to think about gay anal sex in order to proof myself I wouldn’t like it and that it doesn’t arouse me. But somehow, after a lot of rumination, I started to think about what my penis would feel if it was stimulated during sex. And now I can’t stop testing about it because if I focus on the sexual stimulation on my penis, I might find it… well, sexually stimulating. But when I start to think that it is a man, and imagine a man’s body or penis, I lost any kind of erection I could have. And, in some way, I can understand that sexual stimulation feels good. But if in my testings, when I focus on the sensation on my penis, it feels a little like arousal, wouldn’t that mean that real life-gay sex would also feel ‘good’ if I ignore that there is a man and just let myself ‘feel’ the stimulation? And if that is true, what is stopping me from having gay sex? I know that I don’t want some man to touch me, and I don’t see myself having sex with one (well, I think and hope so). But I really don’t like the idea that, in some way, I can find gay sex ‘stimulating’. What should I do? How can I get over this thought? Thank you very much Jon Hershfield November 28, 2016 at 2:50 pm - Reply Stop doing testing compulsions. Nothing stops anyone from anything, including sexual behaviors, other than they just don’t choose to do it. Nothing is stopping me from jumping out my office window. I can just open it. I choose to attend to other things instead and accept the possibility that I may at any point change my mind and jump to my death. The only way to get anywhere with your OCD is to stop the testing compulsions first. SQ December 6, 2016 at 6:49 am - Reply Thank you Jon I appreciate your insight on everything I wrote! Michael December 26, 2016 at 7:01 am - Reply Hello Dr. Hershfield, Happy holidays to you doctor, hope you’ve enjoyed them. Im a 19 year old male college student and i have a huge problem with my sexual orientation and it is ruining my life. For the past three years, I’ve been struggling with what I think is hocd. I have a history of same sex experimenation when I was a little kid. I think it was caused by the fact that an older boy sexually abused me when I was around 4 and I think it caused me to act it out on others. Regardless, I have always had attractions to girls but have had bad dating experiences. But I still love women, they’re the only ones I think of when I think of love or dating. The issue is that gay porn heavily arouses me and I sometimes masturbate to it in a horrible cycle. I’ll go for about a month only watching straight porn and getting off to women. Then I’ll get a thought about gay porn or an ‘urge’ to watch it, then I watch gay porn and if I get aroused, then I masturbate. But then I proceed to masturbate to it 3 times a day for a week, then I’ll feel bad and stop and promise never to do it again, only to fail afterwards. I’m actively seeking girls, but I think my hocd is interfering with my mental health. I always think that people think I’m gay. Worst of all, I’m always finding myself staring at men’s butts sometimes and unable to avoid it, it annoys me. I tell myself to look at them sometimes to achieve certainty that I’m not attracted to them but it never works. Sometimes I’ve noticed pseople seeing me do this, maybe this is why some people think I might be gay? Throughout my life, some people have told me that they thought I was gay and I often think that people think I’m gay too, even if they don’t tell me so. It confuses me, I don’t really act gay according to my estimation. This has also heavily contributed to my anxiety and sadness. I am so sad right now, so alone and depressed. I don’t think that I’m gay, but at least ten people throughout my life have asked me if I’m gay and it makes me wonder. I try to not appear gay now. Whenever people talk about homosexuality around me I get nervous and feel that they’re talking about me. I don’t like calling things gay and feel uncomfortable saying crude things about girls sometimes What do I do? Where do I go from here? I need help but cannot currently afford or get treatment. Is this actually hocd? Or maybe I’m just gay and in denial, after all, some people have thought that I’m gay. This has destroyed me for years and I want to end it, it has caused me much pain and doubt Thank you so much. Jon Hershfield January 7, 2017 at 8:56 pm - Reply It doesn’t sound to me like you are in denial, but that the situation is more complex than just OCD. Being heterosexual and also being attracted to same sex fantasies is not an uncommon experience, but you appear to have a somewhat addictive or unhealthy relationship to pornography (gay or otherwise). Rather than focusing on what other people think of you, my first suggestion would be to examine your relationship to pornography and see what changes could be made to reduce its role in your attention to sex and sexuality. In terms of what OCD there is, you need to stop engaging in efforts to get certain, including with your staring rituals. OCD or not, you should pursue relationships with people you are interested in and not get too caught up in labels or the unknowable thoughts of others. Shaun December 30, 2016 at 12:00 am - Reply Hi Jon I’ve had this problem for 3 years now and I’m ready to fight back! I’m messaging you regarding the whole loving your friend issue and just wondering if you could give me some tips for good exposure techniques! Thanks Jon Hershfield January 7, 2017 at 9:15 pm - Reply There are several excellent self-help workbooks for OCD with tips for good ERP techniques. In short, your exposure should be to the idea that you might be into your friend somehow and might have to deal with the consequences of this being true one day. You can probably do this with imaginal scripts, watching movies about people who fall for their friends, and being loving and affectionate with your friends. S February 28, 2017 at 4:10 pm - Reply Hi Jon My intrusive thoughts revolves around one of my friends (fear of romance) and recently she stopped talking to me but I’m still having the thoughts. Should I continue the exposure around the issue. Jon Hershfield March 5, 2017 at 8:44 pm - Reply I can’t give you specific treatment recommendations because I don’t know enough about you and am not your therapist. I can say that obsessive fear of inappropriate or unwanted attraction to friends is not unusual in OCD. If you are doing ERP to this fear, you might consider using exposure scripts describing what consequences you might have to cope with if your fears came true. Miguel March 11, 2017 at 2:13 pm - Reply Hey jon and just wanted to tell you this article is helping going through my hocd tremendously. Ok so I’ve had hocd for over a year now and I have to say that the anxiety is almost non existent now. But what’s been worrying is that my sex drive is close to 0 still. Before hocd the thought of a women would excite me sexually. Now I just don’t feel anything which is makes me worry. I just started cbt a few days ago accepting my thoughts before i would say ” gay people don’t go through this so I must not be gay”. Now I’m just shrugging it off but its hard with no anxiety! Also I developed pocd but its not as bad. Also I would like to say if pocd applies to cbt as well like accepting thoughts. It’s pretty scary but thank you so much. Jon Hershfield March 13, 2017 at 4:30 pm - Reply Happy to hear the articles have been helpful. Anxiety often causes issues with libido, regardless of the cause of the anxiety. Putting too much (or any) pressure on yourself to feel arousal basically gets in the way of experiencing arousal in the moment. Unless there is reason to believe a medical issue is causing your lack of arousal (in which case, consult a doctor), I would work on simply accepting the way you feel about things for now. The more mindful and present you are without judgment, the more likely you will find yourself available when feelings arise. The more you check and judge, the more you interfere in experiencing feelings organically. A regular mindful meditation practice may be helpful in this regard. Cole March 13, 2017 at 10:08 pm - Reply Can OCD make you believe things that aren’t true or am I just kidding myself? Ever since this has started I keep having this intrusive thoughts and feelings that I know I wouldn’t do or want to do at all. But every time I watch straight porn I have weird thoughts about the guy like I would actually do what is is that the chick is doing to him. So I tried watching gay porn and I thought that was gross. So I feel confident that I’m into girls, but when I try to watch the straight porn again I can’t shake the intrusive thoughts about the guy. Everything feels so real and it bothers the hell out of me. Jon Hershfield March 20, 2017 at 3:42 pm - Reply This is commonly reported by my HOCD clients. You need to stop trying to prove what you like and accept that even while doing something you like, you may have thoughts that don’t fit the mold. Instead of “shaking the intrusive thought”, it would be better to simply note that the thought happened. The more you try not to have thoughts, the more they intrude. dennis March 26, 2017 at 3:44 pm - Reply hey Jon I´ve been reading and searching around the web. I´ve actually read this before, but didnt notice the Leave a comment section and i can see, that you are replying to everyone, so i´m leaving comment in the hope, that you will answer me as well and perhaps guide me through a exposure and response programme of some sorts. do you use a general method or a specific one? if you are using specific methods for each person, would you mind if mention mine, so i can follow the instructions? i´ve been through therapy before and while it a bit. Even though i´ve tried the same exercises, i´m either failing at i and it ends up in a test or i´m scared that i am doing it wrong – as im not a professional. Right now i feel sad, im crying and i feel desperation and depression consistently – i feel anxiety. I feel scared and hopeless. í´ve just met a new girl and im in love, sometimes i can feel the feelings of love and attraction. I can feel lust, but the hocd and the search for the truth/answers in multiple situations, can completelyt take i away. I end up in a situation, where im contemplating suicide, as i get so goddamn depressed. The selfdoubt about sexual orientation, is removing my identity. I sometimes feel like i am a stranger to myself or dont know who i am anymore. The fact that i have these thoughts, is in itself enough to mindfuck me. I wouldnt be writing if i wasnt desperate or down. I´ve had this for 17 years, and im fed up. Jon Hershfield March 27, 2017 at 5:27 pm - Reply Hi Dennis, I’d be happy to answer a question or two about how to treat your obsession with sexual orientation. You will have to ask a specific question though. What you have written here is that you are in a loving relationship, that you have an obsessive fear of not being who you want to be, and that you respond to this fear with compulsive efforts to get certainty about the “truth” of your orientation. You also seem to be compulsively checking and analyzing your feelings for this girl. Having read my blogs on the subject, you understand that compulsions fuel the obsessions and that CBT is the way to treat OCD. So if you have a specific question not already addressed in the blogs, feel free to ask and I will do my best to respond. You mentioned being significantly distressed and having suicidal thoughts. If you are in any way at risk of harming yourself, please go to your nearest emergency room. Leave A Comment Comment... Name (required) Email (required) Website POST COMMENT Jon Hershfield, MFT hershfield-80x90Director of The OCD and Anxiety Center of Greater Baltimore and specialist in the treatment of OCD and related disorders. Learn more about Jon Hershfield Brenda Kijesky, LGMFT Licensed Graduate Marriage and Family Therapist, treating children and adults with OCD and related disorders. Learn more about Brenda Kijesky Molly Schiffer, LGPC Licensed Graduate Professional Counselor, treating children, adolescents, and adults with OCD and related disorders. Learn more about Molly Recent Articles IMG_9926   New Office and New Team Member: OCGB Welcomes Molly Schiffer, LGPC March 27th, 2017 Man solving problem thinking   How to Respond to Unwanted Thoughts July 23rd, 2016|34 Comments officebldg   Introducing Brenda Kijesky, LGMFT May 21st, 2016 Latest News April 7th at the 2017 Anxiety and Depression Association of America Conference in San Francisco, CA "Using Games to Improve ERP Compliance When Treating OCD" by Jon Hershfield and Shala Nicely July 7th at the International OCD Foundation's 24th Annual OCD Conference in San Francisco, CA "ERP Games for Living Joyfully with OCD" with Jon Hershfield and Shala Nicely July 8th at the International OCD Foundation's 24th Annual OCD Conference in San Francisco, CA "The Use of Technology in OCD Treatment" with Elizabeth McIngvale, Monnica Williams, Katrina Rufino, and Jon Hershfield July 9th at the International OCD Foundation's 24th Annual OCD Conference in San Francisco, CA "My OCD Says I’m a Bad Person: Tackling Moral Scrupulosity" with Jon Hershfield and Patrick McGrath THE LATEST FROM FACEBOOK The OCD and Anxiety Center of Greater BaltimoreThe OCD and Anxiety Center of Greater Baltimorewww.ocdbaltimore.com/ocgb-welcomes-molly/ New clinician at The OCD and Anxiety Center of Greater Baltimore and more! New Office and New Team Member: OCGB Welcomes Molly Schiffer, LGPCocdbaltimore.comIt’s been an exciting few months for The OCD and Anxiety Center of Greater Baltimore! We recently moved into a larger space in the Executive Plaza complex in Hunt Valley, MD and are very happy in our new home. Our free “GOALS” OCD support 14 hours ago · View on Facebook·Share RECENT TWEETS Resignation to assuming the worst is not acceptance. 2 days ago RT @lifebeyondocd : Contributor, Jon Hershfield, on mistaken beliefs about uncertainty acceptance and #OCD on our site. https://t.co/UOdyqs8… 2 weeks ago RT @A2AStories : "You have a spectacular mind." Thanks, @CBTOCD , for your message of hope! #OCDHopeDrive https://t.co/plEOBXbCgO 2 weeks ago CONTACT INFORMATION 11350 McCormick Rd. Executive Plaza III Suite LL4 Hunt Valley, MD 21031 Phone: (410) 927-5462 Email: Send an Email FOLLOW ME Copyright 2014 Jon Hershfield, MVT | All Rights Reserved | Designed and Developed by JA Design

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