#and the practice confession scene in Glaciator 2

[sparklingcubes]

When I first saw the Marichat kiss scene in Elation, I was very shocked. Like, not in a "omg finally they're in love with each other and kissed 😍" kind of way but more like, "holy shit I can't believe the writers just make Marichat, the Platonic side of the LS with capital P, where it consist of Marinette, who are obviously known to be down for Adrien, and Chat Noir, the biggest Ladybug simp ever, kissed lovingly and tenderly as if they have been wanting to do this since forever" kind of way.

[theerurishipper]

Season 4 and 5 made it just so difficult to truly believe that Marinette really loves her Kitty. The Fandom and show can scream about vague soft eyes and "she loves her kitty so muuuuuuch! <3" however they want, but it says alot about Marinette's character that this vague "I love my kitty" never really gets any more specific.

Saying "I like you / I want you around" doesn't mean anything whne the actions themselves paint the picture of her basically taking Cat Noir for granted and not thinking a single second about his actual well being or his perspective in any of this.

It's like in Glaciator 2 where a good part of the episode Marinette spends either screaming at Cat, manhandling him however she pleases and even invalidating any of his emotions by screaming in his face that HIS emotions don't matter in any of this, this is about HER and her only when she used him not knowing Marinette is Ladybug against him by secretly forcing him to practice with her her confession for Adrien.

She's literally screaming at him that his emotions are irrelevant to her. She just wants him to do whatever she wants and however she wants it bc apparently thats the only way she can stand being around him. And that she got in season 5, how Lovely.

And then later when Cat voices that he thinks Ladybug can't stand him anymore because she screams at him and gets seriously physical Marinette is like "No, no, that doesn't mean she hates you <3"

When, like, yes Marinette. Under anything resembling to normal morality you constantly reducing him to a rag doll, screaming, insulting, replacing him, leaving him behind on the battle field for your own and your friends' benefit and brushing him off would be a perfectly reasonable thing for another person to view as a bad thing. Only YOU would demand of someone to view that as unparalleled depictions of fondness, and that hasn't changed much by Elation.

Her ignoring his discomfort in the kissing scene (closing her eyes again) and then almost turning into Cat's enemy for daring to tell her "no" one time is one unnerving sight to behold. She basically immediately went back to season 4 mode the moment she didn't get what she wanted. I don't even want to imagine what she would have done to him by impulse if that moment had happened in Ladynoir (I hate how CONSISTENT this is...)

and even by the end of the episode she's still only asking him to validate her when he brings her back.

And well, then she leaves.

It's difficult to actually believe that Marinette really values Cat Noir alot. It feels much more like she values and likes how little genuine efforts she has to make in their dynamics to reach a normal standard, and that he's just the most convenient person for her regarding any kind of ugly dirty work or her worst tendencies not coming with regular circumstances. So of course she would like that.

If I had an anger problem, I would probably like the person too who had to learn from me that that's "perfectly reasonable behavior" they should view as GOOD in a dynamic bc i like using them as rag doll, punching bag and tool.

But just because I personally would find comfort in a person accepting that I can do that to them as my way of "showing affection" doesn't it mean that that's a good thing to make soft eyes about.

But the show is not GIVING us much more to work with. Marinette only on rare occasions voices anything she even likes about him. It goes mostly unsaid so you can claim whatever you want about her feelings for him.

She likes that he's funny, only that the show isn't showing that alot. If at all. Marinette telling Alya in Hack-San to laugh at his jokes because he likes taht is kinda out of left field because Marinette herself honestly doesn't do it alot. The normal reaction is her being annoyed, shutting him up and even insulting him, down to any kind of "slapstick".

And the most I can remember her having SAID about being in love with him in season 5 was being thirsty about how hot he is. I don't wanna be mean but no wonder Alya basically disregarded Marinette's crush. It's not like she ever named anything serious, and tahts....honestly awful.

With Adrien as Cat Noir there was NEVER a question if he values her for more than her being pretty. He loves her brilliant mind, her determination, her drive to help people. Him complimenting her for being pretty was just the cherry on top.

But only towards Joan of Arc did she mention that she likes his loyalty, but that got ruined by her straight up AGREEING with her whne she insulted Cat and the "loyal" part was only to save her own face. She literally agreed with someone insulting Cat right in front of him and only said "yeah, but he's LOYAL" which of course made him insecure. He couldn't see Joan of Arc, how many people are there and what the insult was Ladybug just agreed with. He can't defend himself and saw that Ladybug literally WON'T.

So which one is it, Marinette? Is he hot or a runt who's lucky he's loyal? Why was Joan's opinion of you the whole episode the only thing you actually cared about to the point where you were fine with throwing the person you love oh so much to the dogs again? And Cat looking bad and humiliated again was barely an afterthought to you, as long as it wasn't YOU?

If she actually loves and value him then why is she still treating him as if he merely spawns into existence for akumas or her entertainment and benefit as her care taker? Why isn't Marinette trying to make up for how she used her civilian side to make him do whatever she wants several times by now, as if she never even conciders how this will look like once they reveal (I would loose sleep if I did that to a person!)?

Why was she still perfectly fine with him being completely isolated and having no one in a case of emergency, meaning she always continued letting him run the risk of ending up the way he did in the season 5 finale? Cat being found as a civilian by Hawkmoth was from day 1 one of the most obvious things that could happen and even after 2 what if episodes this fate of his was never actually avoided, because Marinette always just prioritized getting HERSELF out of the equation more than him truly being safe.

That's a risk she was apparently from start til the end perfectly willing to take.

5 entire seasons and the only safety thing she cared about in their dynamic is that if he gets caught and is at the villain's mercy, he does so as quietly as possible so she isn't bothered by it and can close her eyes, cover her ears and go "Lalala".

If Marinette in any of these 5 seasons thought Cat deserved help too than she sure never acted like it, and in fact demanded the complete opposite for her own comfort.

How am I supposed to believe that Marinette loves and values Cat Noir as a person when non of that or his entire personhood goes beyond what little she wants for her own comfort? If you love a person you would actually want them save and not remain in harms way but accept that you shouldn't be asked to care about that? Or remain completely isolated in the dangerous lives you lead without being allowed to ask muvb of anything from you support wise?

Or constantly ditched on the battle field, being done who knows what to so YOU and your friends are fine while you execute the actual plan with the others.

You would ask questions if they're okay and if they need help too, and not just take any half an indicator your being given to write off any concern because you apparently don't actually wanna think about any of that.

You would actually think about them in any decision you make because this is not just about you and their well being should mean something to you. You would tell them things so you don't risk them getting hurt by having to find out themselves the worst way (and here leading to akumatizations).

You would let them made their own choices, have agency and not just when you're forced to. You wouldn't casually execute a plan to trick them into revealing their important secret identitiy to two people without their consent or knowledge, and ESPECIALLY not when the god damn angry authority figure, who already doesn't lie your partner, would fucking use it to get rid of them behind YOUR BACK TOO.

You wouldn't want physical harm being done to them instead of even being a main source of it, and never taking accountability for that while demanding to never get touched and spoken to in a single wrong way. You wouldn't want that they accept that you don't owe them anything as their LEADER but they owe you EVERYTHING because you said so and can't handle anything else in a "partnership".

(Only to feel sorry about it for 2 minutes when you loose everyone else but, well, not really I guess? Or else she would have tried making up for it in season 5 more than just surface level stuff that was once again mostly for HER benefit anyway. But more than that never happened)

You wouldn't want to think they're stupid for not thinking like you and draw the line at any "back talking" you're being given bc you apparently concider anything else but absolut obedience and blind faith as your little puppet as you being "disrespected". So they must walk around you like on eggshells and only talk in soft compliments and supportive words cause who knows how you would react otherwise?

Dude, no wonder Ladynoir is fucking dead. Good for Adrien, and I hate that we've come THIS far. Such a thing is one of the last things I ever wanted to say when I started watching the show. Now I can't be angry taht Ladynoir is fucking dead and Cat Noir didn't made it out of the partnership for the finale, because wtf else was this supposed to result in??

I just cannot fathom the type of "Love" and fondness Marinette supposedly has for Cat Noir. Whatever fondness she feels for him gets drowned out by other 20 red flags about her not actual treating him like a real person.

And man, I HATE that...

Yeah, literally. This is probably harsher than what I think, but it's more or less my thoughts on the matter.

Thank you for your ask!

[generalluxun]

I'm surprised that anyone could've gotten any enjoyment out of that wax scene, I could barely get through it just from the second hand embarrassment alone >.< (although that might just be bc I've got pretty bad social anxiety) in terms of emotional sincerity on Marinette's end I much preferred the whole "Buttercup" thing from Glaciator 2 (?), where Marinette practices her confession on Chat Noir. At least in that episode she's actually aware of her audience and I actually quite enjoyed the dynamic they had going on in those scenes

The whole point of that scene was her not being honest, right up until the end. She is sincere for a brief moment... Then poof it's gone and we never see it again ^^;

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Not sure if it has been done but Glaciator 2...

Gale poorly explains: Glaciator 2

(Paris having all of the ads now have LADYNOIR KISS) Ladybug: WE ARENT A COUPLE!

Chat noir: But we do look cute

Ladybug: Oh no I forgot, I need to take out the trash (Yeets Chat noir into trash bin

(Decimates Glaciator then yeets trash can on roof)

Ladybug: (Annoyed) So what were you saying earlier?!

Chat noir: Okay I over stepped with a joke when you werent in the mood. To apologize I will just stop flirting and just move one. I am sorry

Ladybug: (Still angry) Good

(Cue depressed adrien montage)

Alya: You cant make me delete my babies

Marinette: Do it.

Alya: (Removes all the ladynoir photos)

(More depression)

Shadowmoth: Oh damn there is a MEGA DEPRESSED KID. I gotta capitlize on th... its adrien. Wow, what a mood killer. He should be home anyway.

_____________________________________________________________

Marinette: GASP! DEPRESSED ADRIEN! I GOTTA CAPITALIZE ON THIS. I need to find the gift for this occasion.

Adrien: Oh hey marinette.

Marinette (Dream mode): I got this for you

Adrien: A pottery wheel?

Marinette: NO! WRONG GIFT. (Yeets in trash and runs)

Adrien: Marinette's right, I need to throw out my feelings.

(Kagami pulls Marinette into car)

Kagami: Your attempts to seduce adrien are garbage

Marinette: The f***

Kagami: You need a practice boy, There are books about it (hides manga)

Marinette: Thats actually a really smart idea

________________________________________________________

Gabriel: Hey Son... are you okay?

Adrien: Yes father.

Gabriel: Okay good.

(Adrien leaves)

Gabriel: I am gonna treat myself for being such a caring father. (Places father of the year mug on standing desk)

Adrien: Okay I need to obliterate every billboard in Paris, the last thing I want to become is my father.

_________________________________________________________

Marinette: Oh look, its chat noir. Since he is so in love with Ladybug he would be the perfect person to practice on

Tikki: (the only one aware of the f***ed up situation) why is he here though

Marinette: Cats like rooftops. HERE KITTY KITTY

Chat noir: Marinette? Whats up?

Marinette: I need to confess to you

Chat noir: But I am not in love with anyone.

Marinette: (missing his internal crisis) Perfect I can use you as practice.

Chat noir: Okay

(Cue cringe confession)

Chat noir: That is cringe

Marinette: Really? You of all people calling it cringe?

Chat noir: (Proves why its cringe)

Marinette: Damn it, youre right, want to take a break.

Chat noir: Im down

(Cue not date that Andre ice cream man thinks is date)

Marinette: Heartfelt explanation on why its hard to confess

Chat noir: Heartfelt explanation on feelings for ladybug

(Umbrella scene)

Andre: as Ladynoir trash I MUST RECTIFY THIS INJUSTICE!

Glaciator: THIS IS A NOTP!

Chat noir: Marinette go hide.

(Cue car chase)

Chat noir: Ah Ladybug, my associate who I fight crime with

Ladybug: Okay I am going to need you to cut that s*** out right the f*** now.

Chat noir: But you said.

Ladybug: Look, I just want you to not push things when I tell you to stop. If its too much, I will let you know. If I say stop, you stop. Deal?

Chat noir: That is reasonable and probably should have been said 10 minutes ago, you know how the salters are

Ladybug: Just drive

(Glaciator is defeated)

__________________________________________________________

Adrien: So I learned I shouldnt give up on Ladybug, but I should probably ease up on the jokes about being shipped with her

Plagg: Probably

__________________________________________________________

Kagami: Marinette MY PLAN WAS BAD! I JUST FINISHED THE MANGA AND...

Marinette: Manga? Did you seriously use manga as a reference for real life.

Kagami:... Yes

Marinette: You sweet summer child, dont do that again. This is the real world not a manga or tv show

____________________________________________________________

BONUS:

Nathalie: Sir, a Mr. Kubdel is calling about a mug you stole

Gabriel: Tell him to f*** off

[ladybugs-and-black-cats]

Just a Thought…

I was just thinking about “The Reveal” and…I always imagined it would be happy with both of them so overjoyed to know how close they’d been to each other this whole time and to laugh about their ridiculous love square, but…what if it’s not…?

Marinette will realize that she threw ADRIEN into a trash can!

Adrien will realize that MARINETTE shut him out, pushed him aside, and made him feel replaced!

This has the possibility for such angst! (I hope it’ll include some callback to the confession practice in Glaciator 2, though, because…honestly, I live for that scene!)

[depressed-teacup-inc]

Why is this romantic again?

Glaciator 2 is absolutely infuriating!!!! Hooray….

But before I start criticizing this episode, let me say the two things I liked about this episode!

1. Gabriel is kinda maybe half a dad, and it’s too little too late, but I respect that so much (like he looks better then marinette in this episode, at this point, I would not mind Adrien betraying Ladybug with Gabriel, as toxic as Gabriel is)

2. Chat Noir moving on!

Listen I love Chat Noir, but if I’m being completely real with y’all, he is obsessed with Ladybug. He does need to move on and distance himself from Ladybug, and I’m proud that he tried this episode!

…NOW LETS DISCUSS WHY IN COMPARISON TO MARINETTE THIS IS BULLSHIT!!!

And for that let me list Marinette’s behavior throughout this episode!

1. She treats Chat Noir like absolute garbage and physically hurts him when he shows mild excitement about them being seen as a couple (I understand frustration but she has no fucking right to do this, especially mid battle!) and everyone is just saying it’s comedy??? THATS NOT HOW YOU TREAT PEOPLE!

(Little note that she threw him into a literal trash can only to kick him out of on the roof top and scream at him. Again, I understand frustration but this is like a million red flags sewn together to a huge red flag)



2. this… this entire scene.

And like. For the life of me, I do not get how this show has justified this. The lesson in this episode is that you shouldn’t give up on your love and that no script can help with confession. But that’s not what marinette should have learned!!!

She needs to learn that Adrien might not react exactly how she wants him to! And that he’s his own person! Literally she got furious at Chat for not reacting the way she wanted him to and asking her what should he do, because all she expects from Adrien (and Chat) is to admire her and immediately say yes! THATS FUCKED UP!!!! This entire script is super ironic because this is marinette literally telling Chat to not think about himself when she’s the one guilty of that crime!

And when the confession practice (obviously) doesn’t work out? She cries and has chat comfort her and tell her to not give up.

…because if you’ve been stalking a guy for ages kids, instead of moving on or learning to treat him like a person, you should just keep insisting, hurt everyone around you, and when it eventually falls apart? Cry and everyone will comfort you.

(Note: Have you noticed Marinette only starts treating Chat nicely when he’s absolutely compliant and becomes a “yes” man for her? No? Cuz apparently the Marichat “date” was distracting)

And to too it all off? She never once apologized and Adrien is just roped into loving Ladybug. AGAIN.

This episode is basically Hack San but everything wrong and messed up with the love square!!

Both are in love (unhealthily so) with the other (not true self, don’t even bring that shit near me) and when Chat noir tries to move on or be happy (because god forbid marinette would be criticized for her behaviors and be forced to move on! She only half tries to do that when Adrien breathes the same air as another woman) he is also given shit for moving on, is forced to comfort marinette and tell her she is completely in the right (because again, his forbid she’d be called out and forced to develop) and is roped back in with Ladybug.

…why is this supposedly a romance again? The only good thing I’m getting out of this is that Gabriel I-drink-my-son’s-tears-for-breakfast Agreste is better then Marinette and that Kagami is a manga fan

[flightfoot]

Rating each Marichat episode of Miraculous by its Marichat content

4. Weredad

This one left a lot of Marichat fans feeling cheated. We finally get another Marichat episode, and it’s emphasizing that Marichat would never happen? It felt like a slap in the face.

Still, it had some good things going for it. Marinette automatically jumping to “I have to pretend to be in love with Chat Noir to solve this problem!” again was hilarious, along with her getting mad that Chat had, apparently, gotten over Ladybug enough to date her as Marinette instead XD. And Chat was so kind and gentle in his rejection, if slight self-aggrandizing, wanting to do his best not to hurt her, and fighting as hard as he could to rescue her when the akuma struck.

3. Evillustrator

Ah, the episode that spawned the ship. Chat Noir amps up his act in an effort to impress Marinette, while she sasses him. She also helps him figure out how to get out of the trap Evillustrator set, it’s great XD. Unfortunately the actual Marichat content only lasts about two minutes though, but it’s a glorious two minutes!

2. Glaciator

Ah, Marichat balcony scene, my beloved! Like with Evillustrator before it, they only spend a small portion of the episode together - only three minutes.

But in those three minutes, the two of them open up about their feelings for their crushes, Chat dropping his Chat act, allowing Marinette to see, for the first time, that he isn’t goofing around when he’s declaring his love for Ladybug - he’s as serious about it as she is with her feelings for Adrien. They bond, and he even gets to take her to the romantic set-up he created, talking through his feelings about Ladybug not showing up. It’s the most vulnerable she’d ever seen him up to that point, and allowed for her, as Ladybug, to have a heart-wrenching talk about their feelings and status.

1. Glaciator 2

Andre appears to the be Patron Saint of Marichat, as much as he ships Ladynoir instead. This episode had the most Marichat we’ve ever received, clocking in at 8 minutes dedicated to their interactions, over a third of the episode. 

It had it all. Marinette calling Chat noir like an actual kitty, over-the-top theatrics and comedy with the practice love confessions, and heart-wrenching talks about their feelings, about figuring out what to do about the feelings for their crushes. Heck, they even went to a movie together AND had an umbrella scene! It is by far the best Marichat episode we’ve gotten to date.

[star-ocean-peahen]

Okay so like. I was watching Glaciator 2 today. And my dad happened to be in the room (I was at the scene where Marinette practices confessing to Chat Noir)

and. my dad. laughs at it

now, my dad has a veeeeery specific sense of humor. its basically monty python and the occasional butt joke. most generic comedic scenes (and indeed jokes my family makes regularly) don't even make him smile (plus he hasn't been laughing at anything lately)

but fuckign miraculous ladybug did it???

[concernedbrownbread]

Glaciator 2 could've just had Marinette practice confessing her feelings to Kagami. Why didn't it? She was right there.

(But I admit, that was a very cute Marichat scene.)

[love-the-little-wonders]

Miraculous Ladybug Season 2 Timeline *UPDATED*

I made a post about this before but now it has all of the first half of season 2 in reasonable order!

The Collector: -takes place right after Volpina

Despair Bear: -this is the first time we hear the romantic music in the background - Marinette and Adrien slow dance with each other and are comfortable with one another to be close (*swoons*) - Alya and Nino dance together as a couple

Prime Queen: -the romance music track plays again -Ladybug and Chat Noir pretend to be in a relationship first time -Ladybug shuts down Chat’s advances thinking he’s not serious

Glaciator: -Alya and Nino established as a couple since they get ice cream together (and Nino is possessively holding Alya) -The last time Chat saves Marinette is when they fought The Evillustrator and they interact -Chat also saves Marinette from being attacked in “Gamer” but there is not much communication -Ladybug begins to take Chat’s affection for her seriously after hearing his confession as Marinette -First time we see Andre

Robustus: -Hawkmoth loses control of an akumatized victim for the first time - We learn what happens if the miraculous are combined from both Master Fu telling us and Hawkmoth expressing his desire for it

Gigantitan: -We see Andre the ice cream seller again as part of the girls’ scheme to get Marinette and Adrien together revisiting the idea of Marinette wanting to share a lovers ice cream with Adrien -This is the second time that Hawkmoth loses control over an akumatized victim -Ladybug is possibly flirting with Chat Noir. She knows now that his feelings for her are real after his confession in “Glaciator”. -After listening to Marinette rambling about food, Adrien is a bit thrown off but  suggests going with Marinette to eat. He wouldn’t mind being in her company

Riposte: -Adrien is growing fond of Marinette’s quirkiness and smiles at her during the fencing tryouts (so adorable!!!) -Adrien blows an air kiss to Ladybug. (The power of love always so strong~) -Adrien tells Kagami that he thinks Marinette is a great “friend” and Marinette overhears him say that

Gorizilla: - I would like to think that Gorizilla happened before Befana because Adrien brought up the bracelet that Marinette gave him and his bracelet to her wasn’t mentioned. -We see Wayhem for the second time. The first time is in Glaciator. -Gabriel and Adrien bond and have an overdue father son moment. - Marinette has grown so much!!! She’s able to have basically normal conversations with Adrien. Bless

Captain Hardrock: -Gabriel is monitoring Adrien’s piano practice now after finding out he snuck out in Godzilla -Luka is introduced!!! I am LIVING. -This love square is now a…cube of sorts? (Adrinette, Ladrien, Marichat, Ladynoir, Adrigami, Ladygami, Marigami, Lukanette, Lukadrien, Ladyluk) idk it’s confusing but there’s love all around. - More overdue father son bonding (Gabe step up yo game)

Befana: -This is the third time we hear the romance track music. Marinette mentions that this is her favorite song. The first time we hear it is when she is dancing with Adrien during Despair bear. -Chat saves Marinette once again and they feel comfortable around each other to banter -Adrien gives Marinette a handmade friendship bracelet (*sigh* just a friend Agreste) -Befana back talks to Hawkmoth lol. His control over his victims is slowly slipping throughout the season

Dark Owl: - Ladybug and Chat Noir de-transform in front of each other with their eyes closed -Tikki and Plagg discover each other’s chosens for the first time upon seeing the two transform -One of Ladybug’s earring is taken and her transformation begins to slowly come undone. She needs both earrings for her transformation -Hawkmoth’s desire to change the past is mentioned again -After watching the last scene from Gorizilla, it can be assumed that Hawkmoth wants to bring back/ save Emilie who is being held in that chamber (gathered from observation, not confirmed)

Sapotis We see Marinette in her Pjs from Godzilla (just gonna leave this here for no reason) Prior to this episode, there hasn’t been any mentions of Rena Rouge or anything else of the miraculi It is mentioned that Gabriel knows that the Guardian is in Paris These details point to more plot driven episodes to come This wraps up the “first half” of season 2 so again, good place to have more plot driven stuff given the parallel to Volpina’s ending

I may have missed some things but overall, this seems like a consistent order. Now we just gotta wait for the next half of season 2!

[ladymerveilleuse]

Just realized that after Glaciator 2, if Adrien ever thinks of this scene he might decide she was practicing for Buttercup with what she did think was a statue. Her initial practice attempts at a confession speech are similarly dramatic. If he ever had concerns about her explanation that she knew it was him but still suddenly pushed boundaries in that way, this might help.

"#bushy try not to bring up puppeteer 2 all the time challenge" no I don't think you should. I think everyone needs to talk about this episode more because it's such a great episode but people always overlook it

YOU HEARD IT HEAR FOLKS I HAVE BEEN ENABLED

I've talked AT LENGTH about why Puppeteer 2 is the best episode for adrinette development since Origins, but there was one scene I didn't mention.

That's right folks

IT'S TIME TO DISSECT THAT SCENE

Here's the most important thing: THIS SCENE BROKE THE TENSION BETWEEN THEM

Marinette was struggling to be honest with her feelings because she was nervous around him, while Adrien was afraid of her disliking him.

This scene made them become actual friends. Yes, they were friends before this. But in this one they became closer than ever before, more than just classmates.

Read more because I am going to include screenshots and rant about this episode till the end of time hehehe

Okay, for starters, remember what the mindset of our two leads is right now. You have Marinette who has been thinking about her relationship with Adrien and her inability to confess and talk about her feelings.

Meanwhile, Adrien is desperate to be her friend. The idea that they aren't, that she doesn't even like him is devastating to him. Remember, friends are so important to Adrien (I would even argue his friendships are even more important to him than his romantic relationships). More than that, Marinette was his first friend. (At least the first one he called a friend).

LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIS EXPRESSIONS THERE.

H E A R T B R O K E N

To have thought Marinette didn't see him the same way, would have hurt him so deeply. So he does what he thinks he has to show her that yes, he is a friend. And Adrien totally knows how friends work Agreste decides that ahhh yes I'm going to play a prank on my very good friend. Afterall, it's how Plagg makes me feel better, so this will work to help me make Marinette feel better. (using English dub here cause I can't speak French but if folks wanna let me know what the differences in dialogue are here please do)

(adrien my sweet summer child you)

Then we have Marinette, who is sooooooo deep in her spiral of being unable to communicate and Adrien her feelings, she's reached a point where she isn't even sure if she can anymore. That's why she did it, she wanted to role-play to prove to herself she can (and if anyone is here to blame it's Tikki for encouraging her, #evil tikki)

She's already siked herself out to the point where when she does see Statue Adrien, her head is in that impulsive I need to prove I can do anything state.

She also really does love Adrien, and being in such high emotions all day of course she's going to be a little lovesick when she sees statue him

And this is all extremely in character for her.

Marinette is hopeless and impulsive to a fault, missing social cues at times but more importantly she thought she was safe here. She was under the impression Adrien was a statue and what perfect timing because she needed to practice!!!! So she takes advantage of the opportunity and does her most Marinette scene of all time. She romances a statue. And remember SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS SAFE HERE.

Salters like to blame this all on Marinette but the reality here is Adrien was just as much at fault as she was.

And so comes the most Marinette of scenes in the entirety of the show. This right here, is her character. Impulsive, silly, dramatic, but with love and a heart several sizes too big.

And she is acting like a 14 year old girl with a crush. Please give her some slack and let her live her life my dudes.

(also you are lying if you say you wouldn't have done exactly the same thing she did and try to kiss the statue I know some of you also kissed posters or pictures or made out with a pillow don't even try to lie)

(side note the animation in this episode is some of the best of the season like holy heck the eye details this scene is worth it for the animation alone)

Like it baffles me that people can call themselves Marinette stans and hate this scene, because it's so her!!!

Not to mention even Adrien felt bad about the prank, rightfully so. But he didn't get upset with her because he understood she wasn't doing something to hurt him. No instead he wants to comfort and reassure her because remember, Adrien genuinely cares for Marinette and wants to be her friend. He moves past her embarrassing antics because he is an empathetic soul who gets it and wants to help Marinette as well. He also recognizes he was also at fault here and rightfully apologizes too.

Then, they actually sit down to talk about it and communicate (although Marinette doesn't explain her true feelings because she is embarrassed, and who can blame her)

And at the end of the day, this is a show meant to be lighthearted and humorous and fun. This was a fun scene that really encapsulates the lighthearted nature of the show. It also shows off these characters in fun ways. Adrien gets to show off his jokester side, which he doesn't often get to do as Adrien. Meanwhile, he gets to see Marinette be a dramatic disaster and more than that they get to break the ice and become real friends.

But also, this scene is a wonderful opportunity for you, the viewer to overcome your own fears.

There's a type of therapy called Exposure therapy where we support someone with extreme anxiety by showing them through a hierarchal ladder that they can manage and deal with their anxiety, that it is possible to sit with anxiety and face it as opposed to just avoiding it.

In fact, avoidance makes everything so much worse.

The thing I hear most from people who hate the statue scene is that they don't watch it. The thing I hear that baffles me is they have never watched it because they are scared of the scene. Some people are so certain they will hate it, they skip the episode entirely or never watch the scene.

And by doing that, you are pretty much just affirming your fears. You are telling yourself that you are going to be uncomfortable and thus you don't even try.

You are basically being Marinette, too afraid to try.

Except Marinette is at least trying to face her fears, and this episode, she even does a little bit. She doesn't confess the full extent of her feelings, but she does share some of her thoughts and is able to overcome her anxiety to the point where subsequent episodes she can talk to Adrien and even confess.

Marinette, a 14-year-old fictional character, can face her fears. Why can't you?

I implore you if you haven't watched the episode, convinced that you can't handle the cringe, try. Just get through it. Think of it as a moment of exposure. Think of it as the first step to face a fear or anxiety you've always had.

Then, once you've watched it once, that's great! You did it! You watched it! I am so, so proud of you! Facing a fear is extremely terrifying, but that first step is crucial! Watch it once, and then do it again and again until it's no longer cringe. If it's hard to watch again, maybe ask yourself why? Why is this 30 second scene so tough to handle? Does it remind you of something in your personal life? Or are you afraid that it will remind you of something?

I cringed too when I first watched it, but I never skipped it. And now, it's one of my favorite scenes because it is so quintessentially Marinette that it has to be. To love a character is to love all of them, even their worst. But more importantly, learning how to love someone's faults is the first step to loving them truly, and the first step to help someone love themselves.

Remember, Adrien, the person who was in the damn scene, still cares about Marinette. If you like the characters, maybe it's time to take a page from their book and try it out yourself. Try a bit of exposure therapy, and see how it might feel.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Glaciator 2

Plot: Ladybug and Chat noir are named couple of the year. Ladybug is not having it, Chat noir decides to try and move on, meanwhile Marinette decides she needs someone to help her confess to her "buttercup"

Akuma: Glaciator returns, and while I think his first attack was more iconic. This episode uses him to full effect and it has a great opening and Closing with him.

Character Development: Adrien and Marinette get incredible development. Its the first time we see Adrien legit breakdown from heartbreak and the lead up to it is just shattering. Marinette and Chat noir's practice and Movie break are also incredible scenes that delve into the characters, both a great balance of Comedy and emotional connection. The umbrella scene afterwards is the second best umbrella scene in the series (dont @ me). And it is pure gold for Marichat shippers. This is the episode that really shows how effective Marichat as a side of the lovesquare is. Also Marinette finally being real with her confession is a wonderful scene and THAT is how a confession by her should be done.

Connection to other episodes: This builds on a lot of the previous episodes, from Glaciator, Oblivio, prime queen. This episode really addresses how Chat noir feels about Ladybug, and also how Marinette views Adrien. Also the reveal of Adrien saying how chat noir was more of a persona and not his true self actually enhances the scene in Lies when Kagami points out his chat noir pose wasnt really him. Which was proven true.

Overall Rating: 10/10

Now some people do think Ladybug was a bit harsh with Chat noir and I totally get that, but I dont think its as bad as everyone said it was. I think it lead to the plot and crux of the episode quite well. And some people think it just looped back to right where it started by the end, but I think Adrien's feelings for Ladybug evolved. He is going to ease up the persona of Chat noir. This is the second best episode of the season so far.

[flightfoot]

Glaciator 2.

8. Glaciator 2: Best Marichat episode we’ve ever had! The first two minutes are painful, and I’m still a little bugged by the trash can, but they set up what came later. Adrien’s fine with annoying Ladybug, but he does NOT want to actually hurt her. He does have trouble dealing with the strength of his feelings, but he’s TRYING. The confession scene was pretty funny, especially when thinking about Marinette practicing her confession to Adrien on Adrien. And the movie theater scene showed that Marinette DOES understand why she self-sabotages her confession so often, she just can’t stop herself from still doing it, even understanding her reasons. Glad that she realized she needs to talk from the heart, instead of just rehearsing things. The lesson Chat learns as well, as far as figuring out boundaries, is a good one as well. She tells him to stop, he needs to stop, but otherwise it’s probably okay. He doesn’t give up on winning her over, but he DOES decide to just try being himself more, instead of leaning as far into the Chat Noir role. I do wish that Marinette had a better understanding of Adrien and Chat Noir though, it didn’t really seem to get through to her that Adrien being sad was bad, not just an opportunity (though I am glad that she wanted to cheer him up), and it didn’t seem to occur to her that Chat might not be in great shape after she went off on him earlier.

[familyagrestefanblog]

Miraculous-romance my criticism regards the entire narrative which runs entirely in Marinettes/Ladybugs favor and against Adrien/Chat Noir by default. Just Listing episodes and concret situations is not going to properly depict the problem I'm already very clearly describing because every episode is specifically written to end good for Marinette and portray her as the good and right badass heroin. I already know that you will be able to perfectly "disproof" any complaint I have with explaining why Marinette was perfectly justified in everything from her perspective and therefore shouldnt be criticized when she is having a hard time.

But alright, I'm gonna give an examples and will explain why just explaining Marinettes perspective to me is neither solving the problem I have with all of this nor what Imtalking about in general.

Lets go with a classic of season 4 "Glaciator 2":

Ihave a huge problem that the episode just allowed Marinette to take her Chat Blanc pdsd out of the current Chat Noir in an extremely violent way, by throwing him into the trashcan, then onto the roof and kick him out of it like he isnt worth the dirt on her feet. The was the scene was shot was unecessarily violent and Marinette never feels sorry for having done so. I support an episode where Ladybug puts her foot down for good but I hate that Marinette and the narrative covered it up as a regular "respect my bounderies" lesson when it was clearly influenced and made more intense by the Chat Blanc factor, which increased Ladybugs bounderies alot and in an extreme way but Adrien was never given this important information to put Ladybugs behavior into the right context. So from his perspective her (understandable) violent behavior was only caused by her just being annoyed and fed up with him and stresses as a guardian, which in turn is NOT a justified excuse for her going on his throat like this and just completely ignore that Chat was pressured by the public too (which isnt an excuse either).

She then says that she needs him to sort out his feelings but then later when she had no one there to practice her love confession to she called Chat noir over as Marinette (while dehumanizing him by calling him like a cat and denying towards Tikki that Chat could possibly have a negative reason for being outside). When Chat is then there Marinette throws out the understanding that Chat Noir HAS feelings for Ladybug and basically pressures Chat into saying that he isnt in love with Ladybug so he can help HER with her love problems because thoe are real and therefore he has to help her.

While practicing the love confession Chat isnt being the blank slate of a partner she wanted him to be which makes her angry and she yells at him that he is self-centered and this isnt about him. They go on teh movie date and Marinette gets a new perspective by getting reminded that Chat Noir is... a person. Something she didnt treat him as through the intense situation and she learns to appreciate his kindness and gentleness.

My problems here come into play through the formerly explained violent way Ladybug treated Chat in the beginning for which he doesnt even remotely have the right context and therefore Adrie just thinks that when he pushes Ladybug too far she will simply go on his throat like this now (which she never should in the first place) because Adrien is so used to highly extreme reactions from his civilian life that Adrien can not defend himself against her to set his own bounderies, meaning "please dont beat me just because you are angry". Something Ladybug/Marinette doesnt need to be told when it comes to every other character/miraculous holder but with Chat hitting him with her yoyo, throwing him away without his consent or because she is annoyed with him has just become so normal that Ladybug never feels sorry in "Glaciator 2" and Adrien accepted her beating him up as a justified methode of punishment because he made her angry. The fact that in the end Ladybugs says that if he doesnt want to upset her like this again he should just do as she tells him when she tells him to is... a bafflingly abuser-like line they gave her here. What is this? If you dont want me to beat you just do as I say?

My problems obviously are that Ladybug got to take her Blanc pdsd out of Chat Noir and in the end she never even feels bad about it but rather Marinette and the narrative makes it into a girlpower set your boundaries lesson to just teach Chat Noir a lesson to treat her right, by enforcing new extreme boundaries in an extreme way that in actuality was set off by a factor he can not possibly know about, expect her to react this violent and properly adjust to in a fair way.

Besides that I also have a huge problem with how entiteled Marinette felt towards getting Chat Noirs help for the love confession even though she should know exactly that this is exactly the kind of stuff that Chat would have in mind at the moment because of what just happened between him and Ladybug. But no, civilian Marinette wants to force Chat into just not having feelings for Ladybug in an unnatural way and then ends up yelling at him that hes selfish and self-centered so he can furthe cater to her, which he then also does.

The Marinette + Chat development in thsi episode is actually very well done, and realistically made and I do like "Glaciator 2 alot for it, but you asked for a specific example and here it is. I dont like how far Ladybug/ Marinette is alowed to take everything out on Chat Noir once again while the narrative puts him in two disadvanged situations with her where he basically has to endure everything she throws at him again (he just doesnt know that Marinette is Ladybug) and be a good little victim until Marinette starts to change her perspective by herself and not because she in any way faced a single normal consequense that would normally happen when you treat someone like this while Adrien wasnt at all spared from facing every consequense that came iwth this for him. I dont like how Ladybug just isnt feelings sorry in the end and makes it out to be a normal, logical reaction to what he did instead of explaining to him in any vague way that she has had a very VERY bad experience recently regarding love which makes her react much more strongly to what he did. You know, the TRUTH of why she actually reacted like this.

Plus I also HIGHLY dislike that Ladybugs initial violent reaction was set off by the Chat Blanc event but then the way she treated him for it straight up almost caused Chat Noir to get akumatized again just this time around as a civilian, which directly shows that Ladybug shouldnt just make this out to be a normal reaction from her, but Marinette just once again never has to learn what her actions towards Chat almost caused nor face a consequense for that (which Adrien ended up doing) because Shadowmoth himself had to let go Chat Noir by making the last actual effort to be a legit father in the season. This still was turned into a noose for Chat Noir behind Marinettes and Adriens backs because Adrien was so down and emotionally done when Gabriel decides against akumatizing his son (this time) that Adrien lets his guard down ONE TIME with his father then in the office and doesnt react positively to Gabriel making an actual attempt to reach out to his son which makes Adrien seem unappreciative and not like his good son of the past, which ties into Gabriels even worse neglect and abuse later the season and his willingness to akumatize Adrien in such a horrible way in "Ephemeral".

I find the Ladybug "respect my boundaries" lesson in that episode just...kinda questionable because of all of these extreme factors playing into it where Marinette teaches Chat Noir once again a lesson beause she is the badass heroin main character, but how Adrien/Chat was in turn treated by her and what that actually caused in the bigger picture basically couldnt have been more unfair and put him in worse disadvantages in several ways.

I wouldnt mind it so much if at any point in this season Marinette just glossing over/ignoring Chat Noirs civilian life in her favor like this had actually caused the right narrative consequences since Marinette as the main character is simply part of all of this and her actions shouldnt just be glossed over in the context of the entire season 4. But this never happens as everything is always conveniently written in a way that is in Marinettes favors and against Adrien until the very end where the narrative pulls a 180 degrees turn. Cause even when season 5 brings this up again then season 4 still is around and has to be able to stand on its own like any regular season and for that what the narrative and Marinette/Ladybug as the main character pulled in "Glaciator 2", to which extremes and then hardly even feeling sorry for it, it stands out like a sore thumb. The unbalanced and onesided way Ladynoir was handled in Glaciator 2 should matter but it just never actually does even when the price Chat Noir ends up paying for it later on outweights even Chat Blanc.

So, there you go, a precise example. Again, I dont really have too much hope that we arent going to blantanly talk past each other again and that this time I will not just get some general nothing saying explainations for Marinettes actions that completely miss the points im talking about because I already KNOW and understand those enough since that was all the narrative cared about this season. My problem isnt that I dont think Marinettes actions are inexcusable and she has to be miserable and be called a monster, never to be forgiven again, its that I simply expected season 4 to not have Ladybug take the negative aspects of her Ladynoir side from s3, take them to an 11, reduce Chat Noir to basically nothing in status, knowledge and rights but her Chaton and the narrative and him agreeing by saying "Yeah, thats fine. All Ladybug should be expected to actually act upon in their partnership is her treating him nicely because she likes him" Right until the end where everythung is turned around. It mixed awfully with how horribly Adrien/ Chat Noir got isolated til the end of Strike back, where he isnt even officially back in Paris as Adrien.

After season 3 and with high hopes of "Miracle Queen" I just expected so much better of the Ladynoir for season 4 and what I got is Ladybug treating Chat noir in everyway he doesnt deserve for almost 26 episodes but she learned to be open about wanting him around after episode 23 so that makes her better than his entire home situation in comparison, and now I can wait for season 5 where the ending of Strike back hopefully isnt completely forgotten like Miracle queen was and we finally get some Ladynoir again where it isnt necessary that the fandom has to make excuses upon excuses why it is alright for Marinette to not treat Chat Noir well or has him take the fall over and over again in her favors. Why that is an alright thing to do for her character because the narrative conveniently plays out everything in her favors and Adrien just shouldnt have expected too much in the first place.

Iexpected better and that season 4 doesnt just doubling down on what season 3 did, leaving season 5 to do the actual good stuff.

This also includes the other stuff I already talked out here on the post formerly and for which I still wanna clarify again that you just not reacting to those isnt invalidating my points, especially since I now stated at the beginning that pointing out moments for you to "disproof" is not changing the overall picture the show is sending, something people have been complaining about for years now.

I hope I'm getting a serious answer to this

I'm gonna be real and say that I really have a huge problem with how people are saying that the Ladynoir conflict in season 4 was great and needed for them "because Chat learned to voice his problems with Ladybug", because 1) Chat Noir already did that without a problem in the past its just that in season 3 Ladybug started to legit go on his throat and punish him for things she didn't like and that behavior/ habit came to an extreme in season 4.

Chat Noir not voicing his concerns towards Ladybug and instead swallowing down everything was learned behavior caused by Marinette/Ladybug learning the habit that she is entitled to teach Chat Noir lessons with direct physical and verbal punishments to make him behave the way she thinks he should instead of talking to him normally about it to solve the problem or in s3 get Fu to help, because in their normal dynamic there has legit never been a single person who stopped Ladybug from basically ANYTHING no matter how many lines she crossed. Marinettes approach of "solving Chats behavior issues" has already started to go increasingly downhill in s3 and it straight up needed her to outright loose him from her perspective in s4 "Kuro Neko" for it to start dawning on her that going on his throat for everything isn't the way to go. I mean the Kuro Neko ending scene still has her ignore his existence until he takes the full blame and her responding to "Chat Noir left because he didn't like being degraded into voiceless temporary hero status while I'm also being awful about it" still was "so I'm making his degradation official now but I'll be much kinder about it from now on!" which is still the same punishment technique which she also keeps til the end of "Strike back" the whole time through, but process is definitely there. I was legit surprised that Ladybug kept her hands/fists to herself in "Strike Back" because before "Kuro Neko" she would have not restrained herself while being angry with Chat Noir which brings me to

2) this is an abysmally low standard for the Ladynoir dynamic yall are praising into the heavens and I really need you to stop. Chat Noir finally not being afraid anymore to voice something Ladybug doesn't like hearing and her not immediately punishing him for it physically and or verbally but "forgiving him because she's so nice" is really NOT the golden, fluffy standard you make it out to be. The Ladynoir we saw in "Strike Back" should have always been the regular standard.

I said what I said