#and the parallels between him and kris are cool

[dawnthefluffyduck]

There was empty space on the page of that comic

[lightlavenders]

I think there’s a lot of merit to the Gaster represents Toby Fox theory and here’s why!!!

evidence:

- gaster literally presents deltarune to us as an experiment (via taking “control” of the undertale twitter as well? toby literally speaking as him?)

- gaster was scattered across time and space when he fell into his creation? you could read this as toby as a creator falling into his work, and scattering pieces of himself within it in a figurative sense

- once you’re done listening to gaster’s theme in the sound test room, text pops up reading “"Thanks for your feedback! Be seeing you soon!" ....sound test? collecting feedback? sounds like the developer is speaking through the game to the player, and with the gaster connection.... (it stops after you select his theme)

- riverperson says “beware of the man who came from the other world” - if this is referencing gaster and not another character, could this be referring to the real world?? our world?

- one of gaster’s followers says “it’s rude to talk about someone who’s listening” in reference to gaster... figuratively, a creator has a constant presence in their game?? a slight stretch perhaps

- if we go with the idea that gaster is the one “corrupting” the secret bosses in deltarune, making jevil see the whole world as a game, making spamton see himself as a puppet desperate to be free of his strings? HELLO? they were literally given meta knowledge. JEVIL WAS TOLD HIS WORLD IS A GAME. Spamton knows he’s being controlled by someone else. LIKE A PROGRAMMER. THE STRINGS ARE STRINGS OF CODE--

- obviously gaster has knowledge of the player as we see in deltarune’s opening and on the twitter

- a massive stretch but gaster creating the core could be a reference to toby being responsible for the core idea of undertale

what does this mean?

- i don’t think it’s meant to be taken in a literal sense. i mean, I’m like 49% sure that Toby Fox doesn’t look like this:

- more importantly, gaster has a lot of unique character traits that don’t really let him align as a 1:1 with toby, like... he’s a royal scientist. he speaks in wingdings. plus, we already know the annoying dog is toby’s self insert (imagine annoying dog gets revealed as gaster. I’m deleting my blog)

- BUT I do think the parallels are important! we already know gaster is a very meta character so him being some sort of representation of toby (note I said a representation of him and definitely not a 1:1 self insert) is pretty likely and has some cool implications for what we can expect from deltarune!!

- like the themes of choice and control? you could argue a game developer has total choice and control over their game!! (think of the THEMATIC DISCUSSIONS)

- does this make any sense? just think of the implications okay! PROMISE ME YOU’LL THINK OF THE IMPLICATIONS!

conclusion:

the hour is late and i am bad at explaining things. but undertale has always been a very meta game and i think deltarune is heading in a similar direction with its themes. there’s already so much discussion of choice/free will - characters like jevil and spamton think they have no free will. kris, as the protagonist, should have greater freedom of choice, but they’re under the player’s control. and all the player’s choices have been pre-programmed too! FREE WILL ISN’T REAL! then you factor in the idea of creators having to choose between making a product that’ll satisfy an audience versus making what they want to make? imagine the role gaster could play in a plot thread like that! IMAGINE HOW META IT COULD GET!!! IS THIS MAKING ANY SENSE TO YOU?? I NEED TO GO TO BED.

[deltaruminations]

i didn’t want to keep reblogging that ch.1 game over post over and over so here are some more comments from other users that i thought were really cool and wanted to share/expand on

@determinators

Gaster knowing personally of Chara when they died is something i hadn't really considered in any depth and it's SO interesting and i can't stop thinking about it now

my current (admittedly convoluted) line of thinking is that G originated in the Deltarune universe, and his strong desire to un-doom its timeline is motivated in part because it's his home and he feels a sense of duty (maybe because of past actions) to the people in it -- especially the kids, maybe kris in particular (again, for any number of possible Reasons). i think Egg as a symbol of young, vulnerable life being given out to teenagers represents a gesture of nurturing (even if a very weird/unsettling one from the recipient's POV lol), and when we consider the repeated references to eggs not hatching...

so from there, if we hold that G hopped over to UT at some point (maybe with the "followers"? maybe to flee the Roaring?), and was royal scientist when chara was still alive... holy shit dude.

given just the sheer similarities between kris & chara (and especially if we believe kris & chara to be instances of the same character "model"), the idea that he was able to see kris alive "again" in some form before having to experience their terrible death and the fall of "darkness" a second time... i could see that driving him to a point where he might just feel like he has nothing left to lose, you know?

idk there’s so much i’d like to say but i feel like i’m veering a little too far into speculative fanfic territory whenever i start getting into it. but imo the G/chara parallels definitely seem to be there thematically and i think there’s potential for narrative significance to it as well (is G maybe taking extra interest in Kris in Deltarune the game in part due to what he saw happen to chara in undertale, and/or his particular sympathy for chara because of how his own well-meaning past choices led to harm like theirs did, and/or how his own inaction/indecision in the Undertale universe factored into them making their big mistakes in the first place? is anything about that ethically fraught from kris deltarune’s POV???)

@abandoned-quiche & @torchiiko

one of the things i find so interesting is that he doesn't just say they're wonderful — those statements are among the very few times he ever breaks from his "script." they’re among the only moments of spontaneity we see from him in the whole introduction sequence.

if you pick someone else’s name, even "sans" or "papyrus" or "asgore" or "gerson," he just says HM WHAT A COWINKYDINK. and if you give one of the kids’ names to the vessel alone, he responds similarly neutrally, as if he knows that because you’re giving that name to the "character," you already have some amount of meta knowledge and therefore have already "met" them as a character. he even said on twitter that he knew we were looking for him — he knows we’ve played undertale, and that might be why he’s seeking us out in the first place.

possible masking for personal reasons aside, if we consider that we’re participants in a "survey" or test case, that kind of neutrality is both polite & professional and necessary. whatever biases he personally has, he needs to minimize his betrayal of them, because that could influence the behavior he seems to be attempting to study. and if he’s aware of our (from his POV) tremendous metaphysical power and knowledge, then i think he might be just as skeptical of us as we are of him.

and yet, if you give yourself one of the main lightner kids’ names, he seemingly assumes it really is a coincidence and he just completely breaks. he is so excited for you to meet Kris, Noelle, and Susie for what he thinks is the first time that he can’t stop himself from telling us how very, very wonderful he thinks they are. it’s like he pauses from taking a note, looks up from his clipboard, and says, "NOELLE, YOU SAY. I HAPPEN TO KNOW OF A NOELLE MYSELF." he doesn’t just like these kids, he likes them so much that despite his best efforts he just can’t hide it.

the only other seemingly spontaneous moments occur when we give ourselves his name (discussed below) or when we give the vessel and creator identical names ("OF COURSE OF COURSE. OF COURSE THEY ARE THE SAME.").

@cogentsummoner

YES the name thing is something i’ve been thinking about a lot too.

to explain that more for anyone who’s unfamiliar: in the intro/"GONERMAKER," G ends the survey session as soon as the last letter of his name ("GASTER") is typed. he doesn’t wait for you to submit it, and he doesn’t ask you to change it to something else, he fully just takes the player out of the session. as soon as he sees his full name, he removes you (and, it’s worth noting, himself) from the situation.

this could be taken many ways, but i definitely think "startled" is accurate regardless of anything else. beyond that, it could be skepticism wrt your meta knowledge of him, as discussed before, but we’ve also established that he knows we likely know who he is. he knows we were looking for him. i also don’t think such spontaneity and haste would be expected to follow from skepticism, frustration, or fatigue alone.

PERSONALLY i believe that confronting his own name brings up deep discomfort for him (for, again, whatever Reasons). just seeing it causes him to panic. it causes him to break beyond affection for certain kids and even grief/disappointment after a game over. whatever it stirs in him makes him feel so exposed that he can’t even allow us to be present for it. note that while he doesn’t return us to menu/title after dying, he does that exact thing in response to seeing his name.

maybe interesting to note, "WINGDINGS" and the like don’t cause any particular reaction. it’s just "GASTER" that sets him off.

the survey sequence in general is very very interesting. why does G even give us a character creator in the first place? i know everyone’s already talked about "choices don’t matter" with the discarding from a thematic perspective but could there be narrative/characterization potentials as well? if G’s trying to help the player, his collaborator & participant, feel comfortable, what does the offer of a customized "vessel" say about what he values, what makes him feel comfortable or uneasy?

[calliopeebles]

outline-like thing i’m writing to further flesh out the Everything’s Fine concept. for context, there’s a really cool undertale AU comic i started reading a couple days after i first came up with the idea, and ‘Everything is fine’ is a recurring phrase at a point in the where everything is not, in fact, fine. also the youtube link goes to that one cr1tikal clip, you know the one. there’s a transcript under the cut.

CENTRAL PREMISE: Post - Weird Route, the entity controlling Kris's SOUL feels awful and desperately tries to atone for the harm they've done in any way they can.

THE EVENING AFTER - At the hospital, Kris attempts to reassure Noelle that it was only a bad dream, and not to worry about it. However, they forgot to take off Noelle's watch, so Noelle isn't exactly convinced. Noelle's finger also still hurts from the Thorn Ring. - Berdly wakes up in the dark closet. BERDLY'S BACK https://youtu.be/sAXZbfLzJUg -WOO YEAH BABY DEFROSTED BERDLY TIME except he's not like a badass with ice powers who wants to kick Kris's/your ass or anything, more like a frostbitten and pissed off nervous wreck. He refused to die with the power of, you guessed, it, determination. Which of course does imply that his ultimate fate will be a bit... melty. I'm going back and forth about whether I want him to die at the end. -There has to be a conversation between him and Noelle where they can just talk about stuff honestly, no more miscommunication, and ends with a long hug. I don't really know how to work it in, given... y'know, everything, but I need the catharsis. [Oh man what if they hug but Berdly has already started to melt and they become fused as a new amalgamate, oh man would that be messed up or what oh MAN i should lean into the Inverted Fate parallels, embrace the name of this concept] -DT Overload Melt Scene- "Berdly smiles." "For the first time in weeks, he feels warm and comfortable." "Everything is going to be okay." MEANWHILE, BACK AT THE RANCH... BY WHICH I MEAN CASTLE TOWN - Lancer, having been asleep for the whole ordeal, doesn't see what the big deal is with Kris and Noelle. Since he's still techniaclly the king of the Card Kingdom, maybe some of his 'subjects' will listen if he orders them to treat his friends nicely. Some darkners are worried for his saftey seeing him palling around with the murder duo. Some are worried that he's also going to start killing. Generally, there is an air of discomfort and it's probably pissing Lancer off and making him sad. Who's gonna fill him in on what happened? QUEEN REGRETS NOTHING AND HAS LEARNED NOTHING - Noelle never stood up to her, so she never internalized the lesson that her plans aren't going to make her happy and that she really doesn't know what's best for her. So, Noelle still has to dodge her everywhere. - Queen still cares a lot about Noelle, and will defend her character against anyone and anything, though the whole sitaution has put her in a bit of a mental tailspin regarding her perceptions of the girl. She knew that Noelle was strong in ways that no one else, not even she knew, but also knew that she could never say no to anyone. She never took into account the fact that there were other authoritive presences in her life, and the idea of Noelle recieving orders from another Lightner scared her more than she wanted to admit to herself. - Meanwhile, King, still sulking in jail, sees Noelle as definitve proof of the inherently careless and cruel nature of Lightners. He and Queen butt heads over that, remembering why they're divorced. (Maybe.)

[trinkerichi]

lI’ve been thinking of this so much ok so DELTARUNE THEORY RAMBLE TIME

It’s been said a lot that Noelle’s adventure in the dark world and how she was treated by Queen was a direct parallel to her strained relationship with her mother. If Queen was a mirror to help Noelle become braver with her mom, maybe King Spade and Lancer represent something similar with Susie? 

 Rudy reveals at the end of chapter 2 that Noelle’s mother is the mayor, and is very strict and controlling of her, and we’ve seen from uh.. certain events, that Noelle is very easily manipulated into doing things she would ordinarily hate to do. So with her adventure in the dark world, with a probably much sillier but still very powerful woman trying to control her, Noelle was able to find her courage and stand up to Queen! And we can see this bravery stuck with her into the “real world”. 

THAT BEING SAID, I think this reveals more about Susie’s situation looking back. I think Ralsei’s line about the darkners being there to serve the lightners will is ... suspicious? But there’s definitely a bit of truth to it. (Ralsei himself couldn’t be more obviously an analysis on Kris’ relationship with Asriel after all.) 

Susie definitely has a very strained relationship with her family, if she has one at all. I’m leaning more towards the possibility that she was abandoned and/or is currently in between foster homes. The way she lashed out at Lancer when he had them put in the dungeon was so drastic, that I feel like it must mirror some past events with her. Remember that Susie is probably around 14 - 16 years old. Being locked away / left alone “for your own good”, especially by someone you trusted is a scary thing. And she recovered immediately hearing that Lancer genuinely had good intentions. Because Lancer is EXACTLY the sort of friend she’s always needed. To him, she’s the COOL kind of scary! Someone who isn’t trying to change her nature, but loves her even more for it and plays along! Lancer gives Susie an outlet for her roughness, and she doesn’t have to hide any part of herself because he won’t judge. This lets her explore being kinder and protective of Lancer when he needs it, because she doesn’t have to worry about losing his respect or not being “cool” anymore. 

When we see King Spade threaten Lancer and hurt Kris, (directly mirroring Susie’s bullying of them both earlier,) Susie reacts first and very intensely, and that’s no surprise! But it shows how far she’s come around. She’s NOT like this person, who would hurt the people he’s supposed to care for. She’s a strong protector now! I think beating the King of Spades was the final necessary act to making her more comfortable and open with being herself. Whether the King and Lancer are direct parallels to her family members isn’t clear yet, but I think the adventure they went on was directly tailored for what Susie needed. 

And I think overall, all of this is specifically for either Kris or the player to learn something specific about this world, we just don’t know what yet. 

[protectchara201x]

(ignoring all the other juicy Deltarune 2 stuff to shove Chara Talks into it lololol)

I haven’t been super active on this blog because frankly I have like, three? looong analysis/theorycrafting posts I’ve been putting off working on and it fills me with shame to log in and see them waiting in my drafts.

But.

With the release of Deltarune Chapter 2, I wanted to talk kinda in general about how I thought it could impact the fandom’s perception of Everybody’s Favorite Demon Baby, and also point out something in specific about the Weird Route that might connect back to Undertale.

Putting it under the cut to avoid spoilers and long-winded ramblings for the unwilling. Includes spoilers for the Weird Route.

(NOTE: may update later if I notice more things for to put in section II. I’d like to make a full list of parallels if I can tidy them up.)

I. Pre- vs Post-Release Thoughts (you can skip down to II if you don’t care, it is genuinely Long and Pointless)

Okay, so first off. I got SO worried like, the day before the new chapter dropped? It hit me that whatever new stuff we got out of this, people would connect back to Undertale, and. Honestly, I really do hate connecting everything back to Chara, because I do think of Kris as their own character and I really like them and don’t want to ignore everything they got going on. But, I am first and foremost a shameless Chara stan and they’re very important to me, so I kinda... did spend a few minutes reeling from all the new DR stuff as its own stuff, and then immediately started thinking about how this would reflect back on Chara in Undertale lol.

But that’s ok for me to do here because this is my All Chara, Only Chara, All The Time blog, so I am gonna only really talk about Deltarune here to talk about them lol.

So yeah, I started getting anxious beforehand worrying about how everyone would take any and all implications and apply it to mean “aha, Chara IS evil!” The fakeout with the pie reveal in the anniversary stream was a big relief, but I still got worried leading up to the release about what could be in it.

Because part of why I’ve always thought that “Chara was genuinely evil from the start” and even “ok maybe not TOTALLY evil, but Chara was still a kinda bad person” were unlikely was, even if you throw out all the other popular Chara-sympathetic theories. To me, both these takes just seemed too below TF’s talent and the way he wrote all his other characters with depth and love; a Chara like the one these theories propose just doesn’t belong in a world created by TF, and the way the Dreemurrs talk about them overall, the way TF made a point of having Chara say they were guided and repeatedly, correctly blame you the player for the destruction in Kill-All, I was sure that he never intended them to ever be as bad as the fandom sometimes tried to make them out to be.

... Like, mostly sure. Like, 80% sure? Because he never ever talks about them, so it’s impossible say for sure, and it is still theoretically possible that “Chara was and is bad” was the cold-ass take he’d intended all along. So yeah, leading up to the release, I started getting antsy that whatever new lore came out of it, either he’d directly confirm “Chara was a villain?” “*cocks gun* Always has been” or there’d be something that’d at least heavily implicate them, or could be twisted to implicate them, as a negative force. More ammo to be used against them in the Chara Debate Circles would be a drag, and outright confirmation of them as a villain would honestly break my heart and I’d be forced to disown Toby Fox, My Beloved Cool Dad.

And, right now? Tell the truth, I’m SO relieved and I am SO happy. And not just because of how much depth and characterization it seems Kris is getting! (imo, because rn I just headcanon them as an unhappy teen desperately trying to keep their new friends going on adventures with them and trying to fight back against the player’s control)

I love how this chapter seems to be TF doing course-correcting based on fandom interpretations. Because Kris just isn’t evil, even if they are a knife teen, even if they are the Knight, they’re just NOT evil and that’s canon, baybeeee; it’s made clear in this chapter and the previous one that they love their family even outside of the player’s control, they care about their new friends even outside of the player’s control, they’re established as a weird creepy kid but no one sees them as scary or evil, they’re just Kris, and even in the Weird Route, TF made a point of hammering in the differences between Kris and the player in the Weird Route: Susie and Ralsei notice how distressed Kris seemed after you have Noelle ice Berdly, Noelle heard a voice that she said wasn’t Kris telling her to kill, and the FUCKING Spamton fight: “Kris called for help... but nobody came” again and again, and then “You whispered Noelle’s name”... you, not Kris.

I know TF has never commented much on fans’ perceptions of Frisk and Chara, or who exactly is pulling strings in different routes. But after all this, and especially after seeing all the little winks and nods to fandom jokes in this chapter (what comes to mind: pulling everyone’s leg by seeming to have Kris attack Toriel with a knife only to reveal that pie theory was right, Susie not liking Ralsei’s real face as much as his shadowed one, Ralsei with a gun getting referenced with the ad, Kris getting a joke fixation with knives after the fans made Chara and Kris have knife obsessions as a joke), and seeing what looks like him try to correct some things (what stuck out to me was doubling down on showing that Kris is loved and valued in their family: lots of fans came away from Chapter 1 thinking that Kris was not valued as much as Asriel, but here we see that Toriel is supportive of Kris’ friendship with Susie, and it’s stated that Asriel is the one who used the crappy controller, not Kris) -

I think while he hasn’t commented directly, while he admitted to being overwhelmed by Undertale’s success, while he tends to be pretty tight-lipped about the lore (whether that’s because it’ll be addressed by future chapters or because he prefers to let fans sleuth it out), this chapter convinced me that Toby does keep tabs on fan reactions in Deltarune, so he probably does with Undertale too and would know about all The Discourse surrounding Little Mx Pink Cheeks (and in turn, popular theories like Narrator Chara... Toby if you integrate Narrator Chara into Deltarune being a borderline creepypasta and have the narrator start talking directly to the characters or to the player or the characters start talking to the narrator I will lose my damn B E A N S).

(Kris and Chara not being demonized and the narrator interacting directly with the characters were the only two things on my wishlist going in, I was fine with literally anything else happening lmao)

I even kinda think he’s going out of his way to separate Kris and the player because we didn’t get it before with Undertale, we still insisted that Frisk or Chara was the one doing it, and he’s even using Kris to show that even if this kid can be scary, maybe even mean, and maybe they’re even the Knight (with their reasons unknown), they’re still not a bad kid, they’re still funny and likable, and they still genuinely love their family and friends - which falls in line with Undertale’s cast of complex but likable people who can be antagonists and make mistakes but still aren’t truly bad people, and imo is a direct response to some people fixating on the idea that Chara was always evil because they seem scary/complicated.

... Which is a long way to say that I came out of Deltarune with my confidence fully restored about TF’s intentions with Chara and Kris. Even if he never comments on Chara directly, now I really don’t think TF thinks they’re evil or ever intended for them to be. Deltarune convinced me more than ever that Chara is meant to be complex, yes, and able to be influenced to do horrible things, but they were never intended to be as malicious or shallow as some fans insist.

TLDR:

Toby Fox read your mean fanfiction where Chara is a bad abusive serial killer no one likes, and he made Deltarune in revenge.

... Hm? Ah, you’d like me to get to the point! Right this way!

II. Undertale, Deltarune, and The Point

While no doubt some will still take the voice Noelle hears to be Chara influencing her to turn her into a murderer (I haven’t gone looking for it yet, but I’m sure it’s already a thing because I know this fandom), since it’s made too clear by the game that they can’t blame Kris for this one, I think at this point that’s just being too stubborn to consider other ideas.

If you believe in the totally made up idea used in so many fanfics that Chara is an evil spirit trying to whisper in Frisk’s ear to kill everyone, literally (for some reason) the embodiment of raising stats, and gets more control over people who have increased LV to take over their body... sure. Could be them, they did talk about moving on to the next world and all. I mean, that wouldn’t really make sense because it’s literally never implied in the actual game that Chara encourages you to kill outside of the Kill-All Run or even wants you to, certainly not as the narrator and we get no hint of them doing this as an unseen, unheard third-party either.

Not to mention they’re NOT literally possessing you because of increased LV; they don’t control you even with high LV in any Undertale route other than arguably the Kill-All, and if you fail the Kill-All and it turns into a high-body count Neutral, Chara suddenly stops using first-person narration and showing up in mirrors entirely even though they were showing themself before, the LV remains the same or even can get raised as high as LV 19, nor do they suddenly take over in any other Neutral runs. We can speculate on why (personally, I’d place this either on Chara’s mindset, such as them sinking into shock from the trauma or becoming more assertive as the player feeds their megalomania, or as a sign of Frisk’s withdrawal, leaving Chara alone in the body to take the reins and act out the player’s orders), but canonically, no, Chara does not take over due to high stats.

In fact, there’s even more evidence against this. First-person narration also exists for fleeing your battles in Undertale, even on Pacifist runs with base stats, 0 EXP, and an LV of 1. Since Chara is established to use first-person narration to refer to themself, is the only one who canonically does so, and is confirmed to be present even in all runs through their name and memories always showing up, it seems pretty likely that Chara can take control to flee battle. That means an increase in stats is not a sign of their presence or control, in Undertale or Deltarune.

The most damning blow to the idea that Chara is the voice corrupting Noelle are the lines in the fight with Spamton I mentioned. Kris called for help, but nobody came. You whispered Noelle’s name. Well hold on. If that’s Chara, shouldn’t it be “I whispered Noelle’s name”? As soon as you’ve officially started the Kill-All in Undertale, Chara starts up their “It’s me, Chara” schtick right away, right there in Toriel’s home in the first area, and if they weren’t the narrator before, they’re beginning to speak through the narration now. If the voice was Chara, surely Toby Fox knows it’d be a way bigger “oh shit” moment if the creepy scary hidden route once again switched into first-person, scaring us the same way he did before when we first saw “It’s me, Chara” and knew something was wrong; unfairly or not, their reputation as a villain is still well established and hinting to Chara’s presence with a simple “I” would drive the menace even further, if he intended for them to simply be a demon that possesses player characters when you grind enough. But it’s still just you. The player.

The Weird Route does even more to help Chara’s case than that. Not only is it made pretty clear that Kris and the player are separate, and the player is the one responsible for corrupting Noelle and making her kill... consider how similar Noelle and Chara are, in the Weird Route and the Kill-All Route.

This “voice” that “guides” them in growing strong, compelling them to kill everyone in order to fight for them, eventually driving them to murder people they know. Chara calls themself “the demon that comes when people call its name”, and you whisper Noelle’s name to have her appear to kill Spamton. Noelle’s conflicting emotions towards Kris and the voice as she is manipulated, as she becomes more violent and sadistic, as she goes into shock; does that not sound like Chara, who flipflops between holding you dear as their partner and wanting to move on to the next world together, to be together forever, and them being disgusted by your refusal to accept consequences and the perverse enjoyment you get in killing everyone again and again? Chara, who clings to their quirky narration for much of the Kill-All, but keeps slipping up, who becomes terrifyingly cold, aggressive, power-hungry, and even sadistic, yet still calls Undyne “the heroine”, still seems to still care about their locket, still has moments where they seem to falter?

Noelle does put up significantly more resistance to the voice’s commands than Chara does, and at least much more visibly shows distress and trauma. I don’t think this is a black mark on Chara’s chara-cter either, or an indication of them being more violent or cruel.

For one, while Noelle is still herself with her own soul, it is heavily implied by Chara, Flowey, and Undertale’s lore that Chara was reincarnated without their own soul, at best perhaps attached to Frisk’s (or yours): as I speculate in one of my currently unfinished theories, while monster souls are made up of love, compassion, and hope and thus Asriel was reincarnated without these qualities, it could well be that human souls are correspondingly made up of their own multiple traits, namely determination, patience, bravery, integrity, perseverance, kindness, and justice; if true, a soulless Chara would be lacking these qualities, which would make them less equipped to resist the player’s commands or to feel as torn up about it.

Also, the player has a hold on them both as “party members” to the player’s vessels, but it is also possible that the player naming Chara and having them directly attached to Frisk also gives them a stronger connection to Chara they can abuse, similar to how Kris and Frisk (as the player’s direct vessels) have much less autonomy than Kris’ party members.

(Fun observation: We know that when the thing controlling Kris forced Noelle into becoming a killer and using her to kill Berdly, Kris was horrified and shaken-up according to Susie and Ralsei. How do you think Frisk felt watching Chara be used to slaughter the Underground and then erasing the world when they’re totally corrupted?)

And lastly... look, Noelle and Chara are both minors, but Chara is significantly younger - a small child compared to Noelle’s teen. I know it’s fiction and strong wills and determination and anime is real and all, but a traumatized young child who died two violent and awful deaths back-to-back, may have literally experienced being a corpse in their own coffin/grave for who knows how long, and then came back ”confused” only to immediately start hearing a voice relentlessly commanding them to kill everyone?? I can absolutely see a traumatized kid shutting down and just going with it out of fear at first, before the LV sets in.

TLDR:

What you do to Noelle in the Weird Route is the same fucking thing you do to Chara in the Kill-All Route.

[miracleonice87]

For the evermore prompt list can you do number seven with nathan mackinnon, please 💞💞💞💞

from the evermore prompt list

“And you asked me to dance / But I said, ‘Dancin' is a dangerous game’” - cowboy like me

When you’d pictured yourself at Sidney’s wedding, you always imagined you’d be happily tucked under Nate’s arm, celebrating right along with the bridal party as his date, dreaming of the day when the two of you would be at the center of such excitement.

And why wouldn’t you picture it that way? Years ago, you and Nate had met in California where you grew up and where he trained, and you’d started dating shortly before he got drafted. You’d been together ever since.

That is, until about six months ago.

So now, here you were, dateless, in Cole Harbour, Nova Scotia, wearing a pretty pink dress, watching the happy couple while desperately trying to remind yourself to just keep breathing. No matter how much it ached.

Every summer since Nate entered the league, you and Sid’s girlfriend — later fiancée, and now wife — had spent the long, hot days together in Cole Harbour, bouncing between the boys’ houses when the two of you weren’t traveling for your own respective careers. You cherished the years’ worth of memories you’d made painting the town red with her, shopping and swimming to your hearts’ delight while the boys trained during the day, then getting ready and heading out for date night, all four together more often than each couple separately.

Every summer for the past six was spent in much the same way.

Every summer but this one.

After you broke up with Nate and left Denver, both Sid and his fiancée had called you individually, assuring that the change in your relationship status should not keep you from celebrating their wedding. Of course, being the angels they were, they both repeated over and over that they also completely understood if it was something you felt unprepared to do. But in their voices, you heard the deep sincerity as they each told you what it would mean to them if you did choose to come.

They had both done so much for you, acting as the older siblings you never had, both while you were with Nate and ever since. You eventually came to the conclusion that you couldn’t not go, despite the anxiety that riddled you for weeks leading up to this date.

Despite Nate being Sid’s best man.

Despite the agony you felt as you maneuvered the ceremony, cocktail hour, and reception alone.

Despite the entire ordeal looking nothing like you thought it would.

You were happy to have been seated with the Penguins contingent, though you didn’t know most of them all that well. But, they provided a welcome distraction, one that you were grateful for. Sid’s teammates and their significant others were warm and welcoming and, though they well knew your connection to Nate, didn’t try to pry. Of anyone, they understood the delicate balance, and the oft inevitable failure, of relationships involving hockey players.

So, they all simply chatted and laughed and shared stories of Sid and his now-wife and their adventures with the team through the years — European vacations and charity events and Stanley Cup celebrations. Instead of sharing similar memories of your own, vignettes left behind in your former life, you were content to listen politely and laugh along as you sipped at your chardonnay, all the while fully cognizant of Nate’s eyes practically burning a hole through the side of your face from the head table.

His gaze had hardly left you all day, and you kept pouring drinks down your own throat in an attempt to distract yourself from the sadness in his stare.

But the only thing that that had really done successfully was make your head fuzzy.

After the meal, the DJ asked if the best man and maid of honor would make their way to the microphone for their speeches.

At that moment, you noticed several sets of eyes flash your way from around the table, a few concerned, but most just sympathetic. You offered a small smile — really all the more you could muster — and reached for your glass, breathing a sigh of relief that you had just requested a fresh refill. As you brought it to your lips hastily, Kelsey Rust, whose husband Bryan was also one of Sid’s groomsmen, squeezed your knee reassuringly from the seat beside yours. Though you weren’t close with her, you instinctively held onto her hand to ground yourself, and she gave you a kind, understanding nod.

From all the way across the dancefloor, Nate noticed the desperate way you reached for Kelsey, and his throat tightened. He longed for the time in the not so distant past, when he was the one you reached for. The one you leaned on. The one you turned to instinctively, without giving it another thought.

As he stepped to the mic, he tried his damnedest to push those thoughts aside and focus on giving Sid and his bride the tribute they both deserved.

It had taken him weeks to write this damn speech. For all the memories he wanted to share with the guests about Sid and his fiancée, there were still dozens more that he wanted to speak to, but they were tinged with you. He couldn’t possibly get up in front of Sid’s and his fiancée’s families and friends and wax poetic about the ex-girlfriend who they all knew had left him behind after he’d pushed her away.

So, instead, he started with a simple introduction and the expected niceties about the couple and the evening, followed up with a few funny stories about his own relationship with Sid — their competitiveness and their parallel paths — before wrapping it up with what he hoped would be the bow on top.

“I’ve learned a lot from Sid,” Nate spoke. “More than I’ve probably admitted to him. Not just hockey stuff — everybody knows I grew up obsessively watching him play and copying his every move. I mean, hell, I even went to Shattuck just because he did, for Christ’s sake.”

At his dry delivery, the crowd laughed, especially Sid, whose eyes crinkled at the corners as he lit up the room with his grin. Then, Nate cleared his throat and continued as the room quieted. Try as you might, you couldn’t pull your eyes away from him through the entirety of the speech, even when it wrecked you.

“But, uh, no, Sid’s taught me so much,” he said. “About life, and about love. About how to treat the people around you. About never taking anything for granted because you never know when something is going to end.”

With that, you knew Nate was looking at you once again, and your soul ached with regret. You couldn’t bear to look at him again, instead sitting motionless in your chair, barely even breathing. If you could have slipped under the table and out the door without being noticed, you would have, but leaving now would only draw attention to you, and you couldn’t do that to Sid and his wife. So, you sat there in it, praying for Nate’s speech to end soon.

And then, it must have, because people around you were suddenly raising their champagne flutes and clapping as Sid and his bride embraced Nate in the front of the room.

You took that opportunity, with everyone focused on the joy of the moment, to make your escape, sending Kelsey an apologetic glance which she acknowledged with a whispered, “it’s okay.” You didn’t allow yourself to look at the other faces at the table, Kris’s and Catherine’s and Jake’s and Natalie’s and Brian’s and Kayla’s and more. But you knew that they were offering caring looks — you could feel it. You just... you couldn’t handle it right now. Couldn’t handle any of it.

So, you left the grand ballroom of the elegant lodge and found yourself pushing open the nearest doorway, one that led to a balcony overlooking the golf course. The rolling hills and the sweeping fairways, now overtaken by nightfall, allowed you the space and silence you needed to collect your thoughts.

But before you could begin that futile process, you heard a familiar voice behind you — the most familiar one.

“It was you, you know.”

Your eyes fluttered shut. It had been months since you’d heard him speak without the inhibitions of cell phones and hundreds of miles.

Slowly, you turned to face him, your back pressed against the cool, cement railing behind you as you tried to put as much distance between your bodies as possible, for fear that getting too close might just obliterate any semblance of the strength you’d been trying to hold onto all day.

“What was me?” you asked coolly, feigning composure when in reality, the way he looked in the smart grey suit he wore made you dizzy — well, that, combined with your generous consumption of alcohol throughout the day.

Nate noted your hesitance to come close to him, so he left several yards between him and you as he walked forward and leaned his elbows on the railing. He cleared his throat.

“It was you I was talking about when I said Sid taught me never to take anything for granted. People probably thought I was just talking about hockey, maybe. But I wasn’t,” he spoke, and you felt your hands start to tremble. Nate sighed, standing up straight, and looked you square in the eye for the first time since that day when you kissed him goodbye in his living room in Denver. “I took you for granted,” he continued, his voice strained. “I know I did. I just... I never thought you would actually leave. Looking back I realize how stupid that was. You had every right to go.”

You felt a drop of water on your chest and realized that at some point you must have started crying. You dabbed at your skin, trying to dry the tears, but a sob bubbled through your lips as you admitted, “Well, I’ve been fucking miserable ever since.”

Nate blinked, taken aback.

“Have you really?” he asked softly.

You scoffed and rolled your eyes, still trying to control your crying.

“Yes, Nate,” you confirmed. “I know I was the one who left in the end. But that didn’t mean I wanted to. Leaving was the exact opposite of what I wanted.”

Nate ran a hand through his hair and gave it a tug, pacing around the balcony.

“It was the exact opposite of what I wanted,” Nate concurred. “But I know I pushed you to it.”

You gave a half-shrug, preparing to reply.

But just then, you heard the strains of a song you knew well flood the ballroom, spilling out the doors to the balcony.

You shouldn’t have been surprised that Sid and his fiancée chose “In Case You Didn’t Know” as their first dance song. But damn it if you hadn’t all four gone to Brett Young’s concert together a few summers back, when you danced with Nate in your suite to this very song, knowing full well how cheesy it was and not caring a bit.

You knew Nate’s mind had gone back to that night, too, as he stopped in his tracks and looked at you wide-eyed. Neither of you said a word for a few lines of the song.

Finally, Nate stretched out a hand.

“Dance with me?” he requested.

You cocked your head at him, though your feet were already moving toward him, betraying your display of faux indecision.

“Dancing is a dangerous game,” you warned.

Nate gave a sad smile.

“We don’t have to, if you don’t—“

You answered him by snaking one arm around his waist, grasping one of his hands in yours, and resting your head against the lapel of his jacket. It was quick and abrupt and it shouldn’t have felt so goddamn right but it did and you felt whole again, if only for this moment.

You felt Nate tentatively wrap his other arm around you, pulling you in close, his lips resting fixed atop your hairline. Both of you hardly moved your feet as the song played on, content and heartbroken all at once to be intertwined together like this again.

“Maybe you did push me,” you suddenly thought aloud. Nate glanced down at you as you pulled your head from his chest to look up at him. “But maybe I didn’t have to leave. Maybe I should’ve just stayed. Maybe we could’ve worked harder on us.”

Nate’s lips parted in surprise, and you thought he may speak up, but he didn’t, so you pressed on.

“Or maybe that’s just the emotions of the wedding talking,” you suggested, leaning further into him — deeper, deeper, as close as you could get. You’d so missed the way he stood so tall above you — this gentle giant of a man constantly making you feel safe, protected, unafraid, by just his form alone, not even to mention his steadfast nature.

“Is it?” Nate inquired somberly, his hand rising up from your hip to brush your cheek before winding its way into the thick hair behind your ear.

You swallowed, lost again in his gleaming blue eyes — blue like his backyard pool that he used to throw you into mercilessly with a belly laugh, blue like the ocean you walked along together on nights both here and in California, blue like the only hue that came to mind when someone asked your favorite color.

“No,” you whispered, and instead of wanting to take it back in the next instant like you feared you might, you wanted to repeat it again and again and again. Scream it from this balcony overlooking his hometown and from the dock behind his house and from center ice at Ball Arena.

No, Nathan. No, it’s not just because of the wedding. No, it’s not just from the alcohol. No, it’s not temporary or fake or fleeting.

“You mean it?” Nate whispered back pleadingly.

You nodded furiously, your chest flush against his as your fingers gripped the dress shirt beneath his jacket.

“I mean it,” you replied. “I miss you. I need you.”

A gleeful, tearful, incredulous chuckle escaped Nate, and he cupped your cheeks in his large hands, bringing his face nearer to yours.

“I miss you so much,” he breathed before his lips found yours. “I never stopped needing you.”

[jojosbizarrefanfics]

Oh my GOD! I just read the Jotaro x reader x Star Platinum and One bed Polnareff x reader fan fic. Oh my goodness. Man it was so hot! 😳 Your content is superb. 😁👏 May I request a fan fic with a fem reader and Avdol (it can be either SFW or NSFW). She travels with the Stardust Crusaders and one morning she walks past his and Joseph's hotel room and sees him with his hair down and she gets super flustered at his beautiful long luscious locks. Joseph even notices and has a little scheme brewing.

Aw thank you! I just picture Joseph like that meme of Kris Jenner “you’re doing amazing sweetie” godjfkskfkskf

Sorry this took so long!! I’m the worst! 😭 Gonna make this NSFW, we’re not shy around here

You knew Avdol had long hair from the ponytail behind his knots. It was no secret, but that didn’t stop you from being surprised when you spotted him after what must have been a wash day.

Joseph was stepping out of the room as you were passing by, which is when you noticed him. He still hadn’t gotten fully dressed yet and was shirtless, but his hair caught your attention. You hadn’t seen his hair outside of the way he normally styled it, and his tight, voluminous curls made him look like a model.

Avdol didn’t notice you looking, but Joseph certainly did.

“Oh, (YN)!”

“Joestar-san! Good morning; sorry, I nearly ran into you.”

He chuckled. “It’s quite alright. Say, can you help Avdol and I with something?”

“Sure, what is it?”

Joseph brought you into the room he was sharing with Avdol without much warning. “Hermit Purple captured a few spirit photographs, but we can’t quite figure them out. Maybe you can help?”

“Yeah, let’s take a look,” you said.

“(YN)!” Avdol exclaimed. “Forgive my indecency.”

You just smiled at him. “You’re fine, Muhammed. Nothing to worry about.”

Avdol tried to play it cool but was spacing out the whole time you were reviewing the spirit photographs with Joseph. The way you said his name made his knees feel weak, and he could have sworn that you kept sneaking glances at him. He wasn’t sure why you’d do that, and he was confused by his combined initial knee jerk reaction to look away and desire to have you look at him just a little bit longer.

Joseph made a comment about stepping out to grab some food for everyone with Polnareff, which left Avdol alone with you. Joseph closed the door behind him and grinned to himself, hoping his matchmaking skills were sharp.

You could tell Avdol was feeling a bit flustered, especially since he had only thrown on his jacket earlier. As you straightened out the spirit photographs on the table, certain that Joseph was just looking for an excuse to get you alone with Avdol, you decided you’d have to be the one to make the first move. “Your hair is beautiful.”

“Huh?” He was caught off guard.

You smiled softly at him as you leaned against the table, hands on either side of you to grip the edge as you faced him. “I’ve never seen it down before. I’d say you should wear it more often like that, but I imagine your knots are a bit more practical when we’re facing off against Stand users.”

Avdol let out a nervous chuckle. “Yeah, that’s for sure. Today was a wash day. Thank you.” The tension between the two of you was thick enough to cut with a knife. There was a long pause, both of you unsure of what to say, and then Avdol said, “Mr. Joestar isn’t getting food, is he?”

“I don’t think so,” you said. “I think he caught me checking you out when I passed by and wanted an excuse to have us talk to each other.”

Avdol laughed. “He thinks he’s subtle.” Then, it dawned on him. “Wait... you were checking me out?”

You couldn’t help the giggle. “I mean, yeah. Look at you, Muhammed! You’re really handsome.”

He felt the heat rising to his cheeks. “You think so?”

You nodded. “Yeah, I do. Sorry if I’m being too forward-”

“No, no!” Avdol interjected. “I mean, I don’t mind you being forward. Truth be told, I’ve been holding back quite a bit since we don’t know where this road will end.”

“All the more reason to enjoy the here and now, yeah?”

Avdol nodded as he approached you. A large hand gently caressed your cheek as he kissed you, finally breaking the tension you both felt since Joseph let you in their hotel room.

Avdol was warm to the touch, likely a byproduct of his Stand, and his skin was incredibly soft - you could tell he had recently moisturized. His lips felt right on yours and once you both started, you found it hard to stop. After a few moments of kissing, Avdol gently lifted you up to sit on the table you were leaning against to not have to crane his neck down as much.

Avdol felt a shiver run down his spine as your hands slowly ran down his chest, admiring the dips and curves of his muscular frame. His hand that had caressed your face was now on the back of your neck but his free hand found it’s way to one of your thighs. He gave it a gentle squeeze near your knee and enjoyed the feeling of your soft flesh in his grip.

You knew you wanted more and you knew Avdol had been holding back, so when you broke your kiss for a breath, you decided to speak up. Your forwardness hadn’t failed you yet. “Avdol, you can touch me if you want.”

You made eye contact as Avdol took in what you said. He smiled at you and simply said, “I do want to.”

When you kissed again, you ran your hands below his stomach. As his own hands crept up your thighs and moved their way inward, you palmed his crotch and could feel that he was rather stiff. Avdol groaned into the kiss as he gripped at your upper inner thighs. One of his hands moved to your hip and the other moved over to your clit.

Avdol began to rub you from the other side of your pants, and the added friction from the fabric provided a pressure that had your head spinning. You continued to palm his cock through his pants and you could feel him grow progressively harder.

As Avdol rubbed you through your pants, his other hand moved up from your hip and dipped beneath your shirt. He pushed your bra down to free your breasts and gently pinched one of your nipples. The dual sensation between your nipple and your clit pushed you extremely close to orgasm, and so you decided to let Avdol know by undoing his pants for easier access to his bare dick.

The feeling of your skin on him made Avdol moan into your kiss. You both broke from him, feeling desperate for breath and for each other.

“I want you,” he admitted, remaining ever the gentleman. “Is this mutual?”

“It is,” you confirmed. “And I don’t think Mr. Joestar will be back for a while.”

As Avdol stepped back to remove his pants, you quickly discarded OC your own clothing, leaving you nude and still sitting on the edge of table. Avdol tossed his jacket last, and once he did, he pulled you closer to him in his arms so only part of your ass was on the edge of the table. Locked between one of his arms - which had wrapped behind you and planted firmly on the table to support you better - and his body, Avdol kissed you deeper than ever as he thrust his cock into you.

One of your arms wrapped around his shoulders, careful to not pull on his hair in the process, for support as Avdol fucked you on the hotel room table. He smiled into the kiss as he felt you coming on him and as you groaned into his mouth.

When you nearly slid off the table after a particularly intense thrust, Avdol was quick to catch you. With his cock still in you, Avdol turned you around and laid you on the bed. Your legs hung over the side of it, with only your back and head on the mattress running parallel to the pillows. The sight of a nude Avdol above you was a lovely on, and even better as you watched him continue to thrust his cock in and out of you.

Avdol lifted one of your legs up to deepen the thrusts, which had you moaning more loudly than you’d care to admit. His other hand slid up your stomach and then landed on your breast, kneading it for a moment before he played with your nipple again. This had you coming again, and Avdol leaned down to kiss you when he could feel it.

Avdol wasn’t far behind you, and he pulled out to cum on your stomach once he was ready. Once he finished, he laid down beside you to catch his breath and didn’t hesitate to pull you into his arms. His fingers ran through your hair, a rather soothing motion that nearly lulled you to sleep until you remembered that Joseph would eventually return.

What reminded you was his boisterous laugh heard down the hallway. Avdol was quick to help you clean up, and you were dressed just in time for Joseph to come back in, carrying some wraps from a deli down the road.

“Ah, (YN), there you are!” Joseph belted. “You like fried tofu, right? That’s all they had today.”

“Yeah, thank you, Joseph,” you said with a smile. He glanced to the table and noticed one of the spirit photographs had fallen off and picked it up.

“Any time,” he said. Mission accomplished, he thought.

[argentdandelion]

Are Lightners Mind-Controlling Darkners? (Part 4)

Part 1 ---> Part 2---> Part 3---> Part 4 (Here) (Rebuttal Page)

Now that it's clear what the fullfilment effect is, how it affects Darkners, and how Lightners might react to it, what are the possible applications?

The possible applications below are sorted by broad category and then my angst levels. Note that the angst levels are sorted relative to each other in the same section, not between each other.

1. Lightners Playing with Free Will

For a more wholesome interpretation, one of the Lightners explains it actually helps them and pleases them if Ralsei says no sometimes and has his own choices.

Angst Level 2: Some combination of Kris, Susie, and possibly Noelle, not fully understanding the ethical implications of the fulfillment effect, persuade Lightners doing something silly or uncomfortable would help them. (Ralsei didn’t complain about Susie being thrown against K.Round, and Ralsei doesn’t say no even to odd or sudden commands, or even expectations that aren’t outright commands)

A second option is that, with Noelle, serving Lightners becomes so rewarding Ralsei’s identity becomes very malleable. So long as the group is in agreement, he does whatever they want, no matter what it is. (He does equip the Ragger without complaint, though it logically goes against his peaceful ways and Susie’s dialogue suggests it’s uncomfortable to wear)

Angst Level 3: Kris, Susie, and possibly Noelle learn (say, from the Spade King) how previous Lightners exploited Darkners to do silly, embarrassing, uncomfortable or dangerous things, but didn’t do anything that bad themselves. For extra angst, they were tricked into doing those things, without fully understanding Lightners’ intentions. For example, they could trick the Spade King into helping them in some tiny, inconsequential way, and then practically override his free will and “painting smiley faces on his soul” with the sudden surge of good feelings. For slightly less angst, the latest Lightners started along that exploitative path, but then realized the parallels and immediately stopped.

Angst Level 4: Lightners figure out a way to drastically amplify the fulfillment effect, and use it to make Darkners addicted to helping Lighners, or to create armies of zealots.

2. Darkners’ Choice

If it’s a property of Darkners themselves, then helping Lightners might cause “fulfillment” even if the Lightners don’t know they did it, which Darkner did it, or acknowledge an action as help. If Darkners consider this effect just part of being a Darkner, they may have accepted it, and considered it normal or pleasing. However, it is also possible people (e.g., the Spade King) hate the fulfillment they feel when assisting Lightners, especially if they hate Lightners. This could be motivated by a strong belief in free will and freedom of choice, including on which people to assist.

Angst Level 1: Ralsei becomes really clingy and desperate, but without creepy levels of addiction or obsession. For example, he could add a spiralling staircase or ladder up the cliff in the entry zone, so it’s easier to take the most direct route to meet with Kris and Susie when they arrive. He might even set up a camp near some caves in the entry zone, specifically to spend time with them the instant they arrive.

Angst Level 2: On a less angsty note, Darkners find serving Lightners significantly more pleasing and purposeful than helping other Darkners, but not to the point their longing drastically affects their quality of life.

Angst Level 3: Unable to resist the fulfillment effect, Darkners may underhandedly engineer scenarios where Lightners need their help. (this is especially likely for Ralsei)

Angst Level 4: Possible: Ralsei engineers a slow-building, mostly predictable catastrophe specifically to gain fulfillment. (For more angst: it actually would hurt people if fully executed, rather than seriously inconvenience them)

Crisis in Light

It’s possible the fulfillment effect only applies to Darkners, and only when they’re in the Dark World. If so, if a Darkner goes to the Light World, or if a Darkner is turned into a Lightner (as some speculate happened to Ralsei) it brings up the question of whether the fulfillment effect would still apply.

Should Darkner-Ralsei go to the Light World, or become a Lightner, or some combination of these, he may experience very negative emotions due to the lack of a fulfillment effect. Should Lancer experience the same things, he might adapt better. As much as he likes and respects Susie, he doesn’t seem to idolize Lightners as Ralsei does. He might think it’s suddenly not quite as fun in the Light World, but he might explain that from the fact they’re not on a quest and Susie’s outfit isn’t as cool.

Angst 1: For less angst, the experience could be disorienting or disappointing for Ralsei due to the fulfillment effect not working on the Light World, and he wants to go home to the Dark World.

He might learn Darkners are based on toys, but learn that, though they originated from toys, their existence is now independent of the physical objects and they may exist by different rules.

Angst 2: For more angst, the experience in the Light World could be more shocking. If he becomes a Lightner, he might not even feel the fulfillment effect when helping Darkners.

He might eventually get over this by believing the “fulfillment effect” is indeed mutual, but isn’t as strong in Lightners. Should someone explain compassion, charity, caring, responsibility and other concepts to him, he might suppose the fulfillment effect only kicks in when when Lightners are “fully developed”, and he, Kris, and Susie aren’t fully mature. He might also suppose they feel “fulfilled” only when helping people in very specific ways, and they go to school to learn which way works for them.

For extra stress, Ralsei might also realize Kris and Susie are, in the Light World, just normal kids or even social outcasts, rather than heroes.

Angst 3: The fulfillment effect no longer working brings up uncomfortable implications. He might suppose Lightners might have to nobly struggle against their own indifference to be kind, and don’t love Darkners as much as Darkners love them. He might go into shock and angst over this, and demand to go back to the Dark World.

Ralsei might also realize he is a toy, or his existence is based on a toy, and suddenly have an existential crisis. It would be even worse if he learns people “outgrow” toys.

To slightly reduce the angst, Susie or Kris could anticipate Ralsei’s discomfort by gradually disclosing potentially distressing details in the Dark World. They could even put it as a matter of needing Ralsei’s help on something, and therefore use the fulfillment effect as a workaround to avoid more stress. (Which might be ethically dubious, even if it’s for a good cause)

4. Other Fulfillment Effects

Lancer says Dark Candy tastes like “friendship”, which itself tastes like “[his] teeth are disintegrating”. This is a rather odd thing to say, and the fact two out of three of his first friends are Lightners might mean it’s representative of friendship with Lightners. If friendship indeed makes Darkners feel as if their teeth are “disintegrating”, it might be a painful sort of pleasure, like scratching a mosquito bite. Lancer’s over-enthusiastic delivery of “still boost from the juice!!” might be a facade that everything is normal, and so support this.

If true, this could relate to Darkners being based on toys. Playing only with toys by oneself, and not other people, can cause problems. It might be that Darkners exist to be good companions for Lightners, but not to they extent Lightners interact exclusively with them. If friendship with Lightners (or perhaps excessive emotional closeness) is supposed to cause pain or discomfort (e.g., like one’s teeth are disintegrating) it might be a failsafe to encourage Lightners to interact with other Lightners.

Angst 1: Ralsei seems to have a stronger-than-normal motivation to help Lightners, based on his eagerness and tolerance of uncomfortable situations. By this idea, he might keep going with this painful pleasure, like scratching a mosquito bite so much it becomes an open sore. In the least angsty interpretation, he might be constantly in mild pain whenever he interests with Lightners, or have fluctuations of pain depending on his actions.

Angst 2: If Ralsei tries to get too emotionally close to Kris (e.g., mutual self-disclosure about absent or estranged parents), it increases the base level of his pain or causes a really uncomfortable spike in pain.

Angst 3: Kris does something indicating a very close emotional relationship with Ralsei (e.g., kissing Ralsei, sobbing in Ralsei’s arms, a heartfelt “I’m so glad I met you” sort of disclosure) and Ralsei’s in so much pain he can’t walk.

Conclusion

In conclusion, the unequal, skewed relationship between Lightners and Darkners presents some interesting ethical problems, as well as providing many opportunities for fascinating or nuanced social interactions. The author waits to see whether the full game shall elaborate on this.

Made with the help of Ihasafandom.

If you liked what you just read, consider donating to the author's donation hole on Patreon or Ko-Fi. (By the name "ArgentDandelion", and also listed on the original blog sidebar)

[cynnied-writes]

Perfect Imperfections

○ paring: kralsei ( kris x ralsei )

○ genre/warnings: pure unadulterated fluff with a bit of angst

○ tags: sunrises | worrying over dates | imperfection | early morning drives | sitting on mountaintops | sweet kisses | sun showers

○ word count: 3.5k

→ summary: ralsei is coming to visit and, after days of deliberation, kris knows exactly where to bring him.

○  note: so this is the kralsei thing I said I was working on over on @cynnied-art. I hope you enjoy!

Kris’ hometown was a barren land of clinical depression and midlife crises. Filled to the brim with literally nothing to do.

And yes, they’ve checked.

All you can do is; eat at the diner, hang out in the school’s playground, stare at the lake for hours… Get a concussion? Soon realize that, in the grand scheme of the universe, nothing you do will ever matter? Oh, there’s also a pizza place that doesn’t technically even serve pizza.

This is the bad place if you were wondering.

For Kris, this was all common knowledge. They had known this since they were twelve. And yet here they were. Still sitting at their computer. Bathed in the pale, artificial glow of the screen at 5 am in the morning. Trying to find something, anything, to do. But, after wasting their finite time on the interwebz, a realization dawned on them. Their search was, in fact, fruitless.

They let out an extended groan. Slumping into their computer chair at the sight of the miles of empty space on Google Maps. This was hopeless. They lived in a tiny town. A tiny town in the middle of nowhere. With the closest city being three long hours away. And if they spent one more minute looking at a screen their eyes would die. 

A softer sigh fell as they pushed away from the desk. Kris stretched as they stood up on wobbly legs. Their bones popping back into place. They exhaled dramatically. Ending the exaggerated motion slouched over like an exhausted Sim.

This was so lame. SO LAME!

Their boyfriend was coming tomorrow and they had nothing special planned. All because of their stupid, boring hometown. Sure, they could laze around on the monkey bars again. Share another milkshake at the diner? Or you know, contemplate the meaning of life for a couple of hours. For the second time. Ralsei wouldn’t mind. But that’s the reason for all the mounting stress.

He wouldn’t care. He’d be happy to spend time with them. The duo could be in the ninth ring of hell and he’d still say it was a pretty good date. He’ll never expect any more than their simple presence. He’s just so…

Perfect.

Too perfect.

And Kris wasn’t. 

Their legs were too long. Hair’s too shaggy. Mannerisms too odd. Mind and soul too fucked up. The immediate willingness to eat moss off a dungeon floor kinda solidified that.

And, yet…

Ralsei still smiled at them with eyes filled with galaxies. Blushed whenever he caught them gazing. Said words that only held a genuine affection. Sang them the kinds of songs only Disney princesses sang to their true loves.

His words might stutter or his lyrics might be on the cheesy side but, man…

These trips to the surface he makes… to visit them? To visit a creepy, loner that could barely hold a conversation? In their mind, there was no other option. His visits had to be special. 

Kris’ feet dragged across their bedroom floor. A hundred percent ready to crash into bed. They shuffled before a strand of light caught them by surprise. Not taking in that tomorrow was now today.

The bright beam stung as Kris ran to close the curtains. Their hands paused, though. Gripping the rough fabric, they peered through the gap between them.

Orange and pink hues blended in the early morning sky. Contrasting against the shadowed tree line, the sun slowly rose. Its rays stretching across the horizon.

Any hint of drowsiness they had slipped into the background. Their soul lost its usual burdensome weight at the sight. Memories from a time almost forgotten reemerged in Kris’ mind.

Sitting high up. So high, it felt like they were in another world. Looking off into the distance. The same orangish colours surrounded them. Cool breezes brought golden leaves with them. Warmth seeped from the knitted scarf around their neck. Warmth seeped from the loved ones who were near. 

Everything was… perfect.

Oh.

In that moment, as they stared out of their window, enchanted by the sunrise, they knew.

They just knew. This was the view Ralsei deserved to see.The two teens snuck out of Kris’ home shy of twenty-four hours later.

The two teens snuck out of Kris’ home shy of twenty-four hours later.

With hands interlocked and fog all around them, they made their way across town. The sharpness of the air filled their noses. They kept their voices hushed and footsteps quick. Up above them the navy blue blanket of the night began to brighten. Slowly changing shades in the sky above.

Ralsei let a yawn escape him.

A few moments ago his steady had the honour of waking his tired form. Though the gesture was as old as time, a heroic knight waking a sleeping princess, this time it wasn’t with a kiss. His knight’s methods involved things like poking his side and harsh whispers. Not exactly fairy tale material but accuracy is a small price to pay.

Especially because he got to experience the wondrous things that are sleepovers. Sleeping in Kris’ room. Sleeping in Kris’ bed. Hogging all the blankets because they smell like sunshine. Kris didn’t seem to appreciate that last one. But, they also didn’t appreciate nice smelling sheets like he did.

Although, one caveat dampened the experience a bit. They had to forgo the “sleeping-in” part of a sleepover. No waking up to strands of light coming from the curtains. No smell of breakfast drifting from downstairs.

Nope, only waking up before the sun was even awake and sneaking through the streets. Like a couple of rapscallions.

Guess he still had much to learn.

Their feet finally crunched on fallen leaves as Kris brought him to the Flower King. Or rather, the side of it. His steady let go of his paw, using their spare hand to rummage through their inventory pockets.

Earlier in the day, Kris had waltzed into their father’s shop. Locked in loaded with a puppy-dog grin and years of unused “child of divorce” brownie points. They also maybe over-exaggerated their driving abilities a bit.

Okay, maybe a lot.

But, nonetheless, his truck would be back in its spot before 9 am and in the exact way he left it. As promised. Most likely. As long as they didn’t have to parallel park at any point.

With a startling beep, their father’s truck unlocked. The duo got in and tried to settle into their seats. Both a bit nervous about the endeavour. Kris more about the actual act of driving and Ralsei about the defiance.

He sank into the worn, leather seats as he began to worry. It was one of his oldest pastimes. His thoughts endlessly spinning worse and worse outcomes of his current situation.

This excursion couldn’t end well, right? There were a thousand different ways it could all go wrong.

Before he could spiral down any further, Ralsei jumped out of his thoughts as the old truck burst to life. The engine began to rumble. All the tiny lights and icons along the dash started flickering. While the soothing tones of John Denver drifted through the radio.

“Are you sure about this, Kris?”

They glanced up from adjusting the driver’s seat height to their size instead of their father’s. They tilted their head as a simple reply.

“Kriiiiiss.” He scolded, understanding their unspoken sentiment. It’s not like he didn’t know they were a teen of few words before they had started dating.

Continuing their silence, Kris’ head only tilted further. Resembling a ninety-degree angle instead of one belonging to a proper steady. Ralsei sighed, “You know what I mean. There’s no way your mother’s going to be okay with this.”

A shrug for a reply.

“How about we go for breakfast at the dinner from the second time I came? Those checkered things we had were pretty tasty. Waffles, right?”

A small grimace, this time.

“Or how about that strange P‘e’zza place? I’ve never had ice pizza before.”

“You’ve never had any kind of pizza before,” Kris said, their voice filled with confusion and disgust. So, now their words came out. Of course. They continued to mutter, “You’re first pizza isn’t gonna be a goddamn Ice P‘e’zza. Not while I’m still breathing.”

Ralsei flashed a small smile as he put his paws up in defence. Soft chuckles falling from his lips.

“It’s just…” He barely said before his sentence trailed off. Gaze turning to the sleeping world outside of his window. Kris reached over to take his paw and intertwined their fingers. Urging him to continue. “I don’t want to cause a fuss, Kris. I don’t want to… Your mother’s going to be so upset if she finds out. She’s going to punish you for an eternity. She’s going to—”

“Be ecstatic.” They said, drawing intricate circles into his fur. “I’m with ‘friends’, remember? She won’t mind.”

“That excuse isn’t going to work forever.”

Kris’ hand lingered with his as their head settled forwards. Staring off into the foggy woods. Easily drifting into deep thought.

Sure, it was a matter of when and not if their mother would ever figure out what was going on. No doubt. There was only so long she could believe whatever she wanted to believe. But, that day wasn’t today and thus that was a problem for future Kris, not them.

That kid’s fucked.

Themselves on the other hand? Present Kris? They had something spectacular to show their lonely prince. No strict rules or possible eternal damnation was going to stop them.

“Don’t worry, Rals.” They drawled as they took their prince’s fluffy face into their hands. “Future Kris’ got it handled.”

Now it was Ralsei’s turn to do the head tilting. His words coming out as jumbled as the thoughts in his head.

“Future Kri—What do you—? Futur—? Are you—?” He almost finished a single thought before Kris ducked under his hat and gently kissed his cheek.

They pulled back, flashed him a quick finger-gun-smirk combo, and put the truck into reverse. Letting out a chuckle as his love pulled up his scarf and down his hat. Hopelessly trying to cover his blush.

His steady was weird. A good kind of weird, though.

One that urged them to word for word recite the passage ‘Alas, Poor Yorick’ for no reason. The kind that allowed them to remember the rules to a satanic ritual but not the order of operations. A special kind of weird that caused them to resign to shackle themselves to a dungeon wall and eat floor moss.

They were all things he loved about them but, they were weird nonetheless.

Don’t get him wrong, he’s eternally grateful for Kris falling that day. He thanks the pillar of darkness every day. But, it’s just that any kind of kisses from them was so overwhelming. The simple act causing his cheeks to match his scarf’s hue. Though, he never complained because they also always calmed him like magic.

Why was being in love was so complicated?

Luckily, it was less complicated than driving. Of which the basic mechanics were entirely lost to him.

The truck jostled along the dirt road. Its headlights the illuminating the surrounding foggy woods as they went.

Kris’ knuckles had turned white a few miles back. Changing shades as they had turned off of paved streets and onto rougher terrain. Through their shaggy bangs, lidded eyes had never once deviated from the road. Perhaps they were being too cautious. Too wary. But, how could they not be? They were carrying the most precious cargo.

At just the thought of him, their eyes flicked to Ralsei curled up on his seat. Gaze settled outside his window. Intently watching the world rush by. Yawning every so often.

A small smile graced their face. They leaned back in their seat and released some of the tension in their fingers. Settling into a focused-yet-more-relaxed driving mode.

The road ahead got tighter as it began to curve. Letting them ‘round the side of one of Appalachia’s many mountains. Engine rumbling as they went. Luckily, for them, the truck had made this trip several times. Though they hadn’t been in the driver’s seat.

Glimpses of the past revealed themselves as their destination grew closer. A dozing Asriel sitting beside them. Eyes and head drooping as he fought back the dastardly enemy that was sleep. Their parents in the front seats, both humming along to the turned down the radio.

That’s when they saw it.

A nice patch of the mountainside overlooked valleys below. Tall, wild grass with flowers sprouting up in patches. They pulled up. Easing the truck to a full stop a couple meters from the optimal gazing spot.

Their whole body relaxed, finally. Head lolling back onto the headrest. Letting out a breath and closing their eyes. Knowing they made the trip here safely.

“We’re here?” Ralsei asked, yawning as his bones cracked while he stretched.

They threw him a lazy thumbs-up and clicked their tongue. Catching his yawn before holding out a hand, “Specs, please.”

His head and eyebrows cocked at their request. The urge to ask at least several questions rising in him. But, knowing Kris, they wouldn’t answer any of them.

With a sigh, he let the world turn blurry as he handed his glasses away. Soon after, scarred digits took a hold of his scarf, pulling it loose. Guiding it from his neck to cover his eyes. Before the world went dark as they tied a tight knot at the back.

Now, sound and touch were all he had to go on. Kris’ soft hum once they were finished tying. The clicks of their seat belts unbuckling and the whirring of them gliding back into place. A thunk as their door of the truck swung open. Another as his side opened.

Their hands guiding him out of the vehicle and over to an unknown spot. The dewy grass under his paws and roundness of the air. And finally, the familiar weight of his glasses returning.

He blinked once and then twice before his jaw dropped.

A golden world awaited him.

The sky he had fawned over weeks prior seemed so much more expansive. Stretching from the ends of the earth, blanketing everything around them in a warm hue. Streaks of orange, red, and yellow danced along it. Like a painter’s brush strokes. All independent at times. Before blending together to make the wondrous painting in front of him. Light, fluffy clouds lazily drifted across the background.

And in the center of it all?

A thing, once upon a time, he’d never thought he’d get to see.

The Lightners’ brightest star.

No, it was his too now.

Their brightest star. Their most prized possession rose from the horizon. Slowly but surely making its way to its throne in the heavens. Lighting up their little corner of the world. Not that he could quite remember it wasn’t just him and the celestial body. No, as he gazed upon the sun and a wave of serenity washed over him, it felt like there was no one else left on Earth.

Wait, there was someone else with them.

Ralsei pulled his sight away from his new friend to his real-life company. His silent knight.

Kris sat close beside. Their form bathed in the rays as they sprawled out in the tall grass. Golden light illuminating their whole body. Creating a god-like glow around them. At last, they seemed to be at peace. Then, as their head lolled back, their long bangs fell to either side. Revealing the gems they kept hidden from the world.

An occurrence rarer than any blue moon.

Maroon irises admired the painting before them. They were filled with something he couldn’t quite place. Contentment? Amazement? Nostalgia? Whatever it was, when their eyes drifted from the sunrise over to him, it was still there.

Oh…

Perhaps it was love.

He still had to come to terms with that fact. That somebody alive and sentient loved him. Somebody as wonderful as Kris loved a wreck like him. A tiny ball of nerves and anxiety. Terrified of falling too fast and too hard. Being too needy. Too much much of a bother. Being too… everything. And not being what Kris needed.

But,

They never seemed to mind.

They always were an attentive listener to all his rambling but, always knew the right time to stop him. Lest he enters a perpetually downward spiral.

They were one hundred percent willing to become the hero that he needed. Not questioning ludicrous, reality breaking implications for anything he told them.

And when they were ready, Kris would talk for hours.

About stories from when they were younger.

Barely believable conspiracy theories.

Loosely connected thoughts stringed together profoundly.

They were just so perfect.

And this, the sneaking out in the early morning, the quiet drive, and the sunset. It was all just so…

Perfect.

Kris reached out and laced their fingers together again. Pulling him out of his thoughts. Right on time as always. They gazed at him with, his throat tightened, love-filled eyes. Their usual neutral expression replaced with upturned lips and those softened gems.

Oh, darkness, don’t cry.

Don’t cry, Ralsei.

Don’t cry.

Don’t—

Dammit.

“Kris,” He choked out as tears began to well. They threatened to fall and ruin this perfect moment. Kris’ perfect moment for him. No, he had to pull himself together. “This is, this is. It’s…”

Yep, stuttering is a surefire sign of someone who’s totally not on the verge of a breakdown. So embarrassing. SO EMBARRASSING!

“Rals,” They began softly. Eyes squinting as they searched for the right words. “It’s… okay. Tears of joy, right? It’s okay. You’re okay.”

Not helping. Not helping at all.

“Oh, damn it all.” He cursed as he mustered up all the courage he had. Within the second, he bounded over to his steady. His beloved hat falling to the wayside as he wrapped his arms around them. Burrowing his nose into their neck. Inhaling their piney scent as he blurted out, “Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!”

The two stayed like that for a while. Enjoying each other’s body heat and tight holds. But, all good things must come to an end. And this good thing ended once he pulled back. Quickly realizing their current position.

His arms rested linked on their shoulders as he sat in their lap. And with their hands settled on his hips, their bodies were close.

Super close.

Close enough for a… kiss?

Yes, Kris thought as their hand made its way up to his cheek. Close enough to stare into his galaxies for eyes. Close enough to breathe the same air. Close enough for his head to block out the morning sun. Creating a glowing halo around him.

Definitely close enough.

Also, definitely a perfect way to punctuate their date.

But, alas,

Mother Nature had another idea in mind.

“Was that a raindrop?” Ralsei blinked and shook the excess wetness off of his snout. He rose from their lap to scan the horizon. Brows furrowed as he adjusted his glasses, “But, there aren’t any clouds?”

Despite the obvious lack of cloud coverage, rain began to pour down on them.

Kris, reluctantly, got to their feet. Their fingers ran through their messy brown locks as they closed their eyes. At least they got their sunrise.

With a deep sigh, they called out to their love, “We… should get back. Sorry about this.”

“Why?” Their eyes shot open at his question. That’s when they saw him. Spinning around on the balls of his feet as his giggles resounded through the air. His arms swung and legs kicked as he jaunted around the field. “This is amazing! How weird is this! Raining while the sun’s still shining! I’ve never heard of this. What is this, Kris?”

Oh.

My.

God.

He wasn’t upset?

“Sun showers,” They answered like a ditz. Their mind still running wild. Trying to comprehend how he could be this happy about it raining on their perfect date. “They, uh, happen sometimes. You don’t want to go?”

“No! I love it!” Hat long forgotten, he ran up to them, eyes a glow. Hands outstretched until they intertwined with theirs. “Dance with me!”

It was less of a question and more of a demand, not that they minded though. With all his might, Ralsei swung them around the wild grass. Dancing something between the waltz and a folksy jig. Loudly humming out a familiar tune. Soon, their laughs joined his humming. Until both faded and only the gentle beats of the rain were left.

They were close once more.

Super close.

Now or never.

Kris straightened their back and cleared their throat before asking, “Do you, maybe, want to—”

“Yes.” He cut them off, a look of pure unadulterated love on his face.

And then, they did it.

They kissed.

It technically wasn't a perfect kiss. The rain continued to beat down. Their now soaked clothes uncomfortably clung to their bodies. His fur wasn’t as soft and fluffy as it usually was. It was more damp and kinda spiky. Their skin somehow felt sweaty and tight. But,

None of that mattered.

Nope. Not to them.

Somehow, like everything else about the two of them, it was perfect.

Perhaps, their imperfections were what’s perfect.

At least to them.

And in the end, isn’t that the only thing that matters?

The End!!

I hope you've enjoyed reading this. If you did, any kind of comment would be appreciated! 

I've been working on it for a loooong time. Just glad it's all finished! Finally, I'm free!

[notmoreflippingelves]

The Case for Kristoph Gavin as a Shakespearean Tragic Hero/ Anti-villain (Pt 1: Iago, Richard III & Edmund)

So, as I former English major, I’ve been trying to put my finger on why exactly Ace Attorney’s Kristoph Gavin makes such a compelling character. And when I made an allusion to Othello in a Kriswright fic I’m writing, I suddenly came irrevocably to a stunning realization. 

Kristoph Gavin is a fantastic villain, because he was written in the mold of a great Shakespearean antagonist--complex, conflicted, and dripping in delicious ambiguity. Not only that but there are some pretty AMAZING parallels between character motivations and arcs of some of the most memorable Shakespearean villains/tragic heroes and Kristoph. 

(I’ve  decided to break the analysis into two parts, cause this part alone is WAY too long (So long I didn’t even get to all of my feelings about Kris as Brutus from Julius Caesar yet..)This part is for Iago, Richard III & Edmund the Bastard,  the three characters who are constantly vying with each other for the title of “most EVUL character in  all of Shakespeare.” Whereas in Part 2, I plan to focus on the more sympathetic antagonists ( including BRUTUS! I Can’t wait! It’s my favorite set of parallels. ) 

But enough intro, let’s jump into some analysis. (YAY!!!) I’m putting this under the cut, because  as I said it’s LONG.

Kristoph as Iago-- Okay, let’s tackle the giant elephant in the room first, shall we? The parallels are so glaring . (This parallel is kind of boring compared to the other two cause it’s so obvious. But it’s important to cover anyway.)

So we have Kristoph and we have Othello’s Iago. Two-faced “Big Bad friends” driven by envy to ruin another’s life.  One slightly surprising l thing that I’d  forgotten at first is that one of Iago’s proposed motivations is--like Kristoph’s-- thwarted professional ambition. Like Kristoph with the Gramarye case, Iago loses out on a job opportunity and decides to ruin the lives of those who passed him over.

 There’s also the VERY common scholarly interpretation that Iago is also driven at least in part by toxic love of/ excessive lust for Othello (It’s especially blatant in the Kenneth Branagh’s portrayal). One can definitely see a similar interpretation of Kristoph’s “friendship” with Phoenix--either  in a “if I can’t have you, no one will” way or  in “I will deliberately and methodically destroy everything you love until I’m the only the only thing left. Then, you’ll have to choose me” way. 

But there’s also hints that Iago could have mixed motives, completely different motives, or even no motive  at all. Now who does that remind me of? Kristoph “you’ll never break my five black psyche-locks”--Gavin. 

“Determined to be a villain”--Kristoph, Richard, and Edmund intro - When it comes to their motivations,  King Lear’s Edmund and Richard III are remarkably similar characters to each other  in terms of their motivations--even if their methods/results differ somewhat. So I’m gonna talk about their motivations together for a bit  before I talk about Kristoph parallels in terms of individual character arcs. 

Both  King Lear’s Edmund and Richard III are victims of a world that they believe had left them no other choice but villainy (Edmund because he was born illegitimately and Richard because he was born with multiple physical deformities)  When Richard III says that great line in his opening soliloquy  “I am determined to prove a villain,” he doesn’t mean  “I’m so excited about the fun evil I’m gonna do. Yay! YOLO.” (At least, he doesn’t mean ONLY that.)

“Determined” is actually part of  the verb in this sentence, not the adjective.If you tweak the  sentence structure to match how we’d express this in 21st century English, you can see that Richard is actually referring to himself as a passive subject: “I have been determined a villain by _______.” There’s an invisible indirect object there--the one that Richard believes has forced his hand: fate, his birth, his looks, divine judgement, or something else entirely. (Edmund also has a very similar monologue about how “nature” has made him a villain because of the circumstances of his birth but not gonna dive too deeply into that rn.)

Okay, so during that time and place, illegitimate children and those w/ physical disabilities thought they had little control over free will/personal morality. Makes sense. But how does Kristoph come into this? 

Well, he might if he had a serious mental illness instead. I have seen plausible cases being made for a Kristoph with PTSD (due to unexplained trauma suggested by his black psyche locks), anxiety, Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, OCD, and/or paranoia. Any one of these could make someone believe that the dice are stacked against them and that the only way to enjoy success/happiness is to take drastic action to ensure it. 

Of course, none of the above excuses or justifies any of what Richard, Edmund, or Kristoph do in their respective arcs. It just makes it easier to understand why they might do those things.

Now we’re gonna look at Richard and Edmund respectively and compare their specific parallels with Kristoph. 

Kristoph as Richard the III:

 So the most obvious parallel between Richard and Kristoph is a visual one. During his final break down, Kristoph hunches over in a way reminscient of someone--who like Richard--has  scoliosis. There’s also the creepy spasm on his face when he loses his cool, which does give him a very Richard-esque look. 

In terms of parallels in their actual arcs, Kristoph may not have murdered his two nephews  like tricky King Dicky does but his poisoning of Vera Misham does show that he--like Richard-- is willing to hurt a child if said child threatens his ambition. 

 And one more little thing: Kristoph like Richard (and also like Edmund who’ll we will get to in a second) does have a magnetic personality which he uses to charm the pants off his would-be enemies. 

The biggest example of that is when he is somehow able to convince Lady Anne to marry him- while standing next to the body of her of her dead father-in--law whom Richard himself killed alongside her husband too! 

Kristoph may have not done anything quite that twisted, but “befriending” a man whose life he personally ruined is definitely Richard III-esque--especially if one believes that Kristoph also has a sexual/romantic interest in Phoenix and/or that their “friendship”  had a physical, non-platonic component to it. 

Kristoph as Edmund the Bastard:

And now for the grand finale. Edmund you magnificent bastard (literally as well as figuratively). I cannot believe I nearly missed this particular parallel. It’s just... stunning.  

So, the main b-plot of King Lear involves the rivalry between two brothers--Edgar the legitimate son and Edmund the other one. Edgar is impulsive and hot-headed with a insightful, sometimes caustic sense of humor, whereas Edgar is cold, collected and quietly compelling.  (Does this remind y’all of a certain pair of lawyer siblings yet? Hmm... Just wait.)

Just like in AJ, the conflict between the brothers in Lear reaches a breaking point due to...get this.. a forged document. (Le gasp! Is it really so? What a freaky coincidence. Yeah that was my thought too!) 

So, Edmund writes a fake letter from “his brother” that alleges he’s plotting to overthrow their father and then hands the letter over to dear old Dad who exiles Edgar which kicks off the plot. 

But wait, you say? Phoenix was the one Kristoph ruined w/ the forged document, not Klavier, and you’d be right about that mostly. If you actually look at the timeline carefully, you’ll see that Kristoph ordering the forgery pre-dates his being fired as  Zak Gramarye’s  attorney. And as others have pointed out , there’s only one reason why he might do that.  

Kristoph was planning to use the fake diary page himself in court and present “indisputably compelling” fake evidence to get his client off. He was gonna use this forgery against his own brother, just to ensure he got what he wanted. Just like Edmund... (*mind blown*)

It’s only after he’s fired as Zak’s lawyer that Kristoph switches his animosity to Phoenix, setting him up to take the fall, because a Gavin court victory is still more valuable than that of a nobody--even if the wrong Gavin has to win the day. 

So yeah...that’s all she wrote so far. Hopefully, I’ll be able to pull my Claudius and Brutus thoughts together soon for a follow up.

[3wisellamas]

Because there still aren't enough Deltarune theories: Fun Facts About Cards

So, I was thinking a lot about @pirenja's older post on Jevil and Seam as The Fool and The Magician, the first (or first and last, depending on who you ask) cards of the Tarot major arcana and which usually map to the Jokers in a standard playing card deck.  

There's also the MINOR arcana, though -- the plain numbers and suits that make up the rest of a Tarot deck, and look a LOT like a typical 52-card deck.  I knew about those, but didn't know those, so I got curious and spent a couple days looking into it, just for funsies.

So, uh...holy shit.  The card-based Darkners aren't just playing cards, they're TAROT cards.  The characters we know fit almost ridiculously well to their cards, and there were a couple parallels I found particularly interesting.  Allow me to infodump, and add in a few extra fun little things that also came up in some card research, and which might have some...interesting implications on the rest of Deltarune.  A lot of this is gonna come from Wikipedia, as well as this site.

Just a heads-up, this post is gonna include a lot of theories (some of which may or may not be pure crack) and will be LONG, and much of it will look like this:

...But in a fun way, I promise.  ~^

First, let's go over some REALLY brief info about some of the cards we've seen so far in Deltarune.  The ties between these guys and Tarot are pretty damn obvious, especially when you look at the four suits:

Diamonds:  In Tarot, their equivalent is Pentacles or Coins.  These are associated with wealth, business, and physical possessions.

Sounds a lot like the Rudinns and the King of Diamonds, right?  I mean, they're so obsessed with their treasure that they sold their beds to have more of it!

Hearts:  The Tarot equivalent is the Cups.  Associated with emotions and bettering oneself.  

Hathys are pretty big on emotion -- they're the ones you keep flirting with in encounters, after all, and the proceeds for Hathy's bake sale go towards their health.

Clubs:  The Tarot equivalent is the Wands.  This one I had to work a bit to figure out, but it seems to be more associated with social things, passion, and desire/drive.

Clover is definitely a social one, seeing as how they're throwing their birthday party in the castle when you arrive.  And they're also VERY passionate about three specific topics, which actually plays into pacifying them!

Spades:  Now for some fun.  In Tarot, these are Swords, and are most associated with...take a wild guess.  Ambition, power, violence, and the military.

Yep.  Shall we look a bit closer at the actual cards in the Spades suit, then?  

First off, the King of Spades/Swords.  The card is LITERALLY called The Warlord, and is associated with force and discipline, ruthlessness, intelligence, and sometimes coldness and abuse in a negative reading.  Pretty damn accurate to the King, I gotta say.  Not a lot of room for interpretation here.

The other Spade we know of, though?  A...little less clear-cut, but still works.  Lancer is the Jack of Spades, meaning his Tarot equivalent is the Page/Knave of Swords -- same card, just an older name -- which is indeed all about youth and energy, as well as learning and observing, and keeping cool in danger.  However, the card is also called The Spy, and also has a meaning of concealing oneself and keeping secrets.

Hm.  Some of that really sounds like Lancer, some...doesn't?  Perhaps our boy has an arc and some more character development ahead of him.  Or...I'll get back to this.  Because there is some interesting theory fuel here once I bring in another point.

Now, for a Spade we DON'T know yet, but that we know very well is coming:  The Queen.  The Queen of Swords is associated with intelligence, strategy, independence, and...repressed sadness and divorce?  Hm.

HM.  If the King of Spades is meant to be a Dark World mirror of Asgore, could the Queen end up being a dark mirror of Toriel, out in self-exile?  Time will tell.  And when we do finally meet the Queen in future chapters, she will very likely be one hell of a big deal, if the Tarot theme holds, so keep the card description in mind for that!

But, we can't stop at the Queen; we're missing a big, major detail.  In Tarot decks, and in fact in historical playing card decks in general, there are FOUR face cards of each suit, not just the three we see in a typical deck.  At the top are the King and Queen, obviously.  At the bottom is the Page or the Knave, as I said up there the equivalent of the modern Jack.  And the last one, between the Page and the Queen?  The Knight.

No, really.  The Knight is a CARD.  But, I'm gonna go further than that:  We already know someone, specifically a card person, in the Dark World who fits the description of the Knight of Swords/Spades, quite well in fact:

Associated with major, drastic changes -- pretty appropriate for the person who's been jailing kings and opening up dark fountains, huh?

Impulsive, and constantly takes actions without much planning beforehand.

Fanatical and single-minded, obsessively loyal to one thing and one thing only at a time.

Confident, to the point of arrogance.  Basically, obsessed with themselves.

Articulate, good with words, and a sweet-talker, able to get what they want through speech and charm alone.  Ironically, not often associated with direct action, and can mean cowardice.

Also, a bald-faced liar -- their whole thing is trickery and deceit.  They also keep a LOT of secrets, like the Page.

Worth noting, the Knight often replaces the Queen entirely in older decks, and is considered the card right under the King of Spades, as his main servant or advisor.

Notably, according to that Tarot site up there, they are heavily associated with major career changes and promotions.

You figured it out yet?

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Oh yeah.  Worm knight.  

Let's go through some points with both Rouxls Kaard and that card description in mind, if you don't believe me.  

Uh, hello?  Confident, impulsive, acts without thinking, fanatical, self-centered?  The card description may as well be the guy's Wikia bio.

Articulate...well, he tries.  Can't fault him for that.  (yes you can)

Honestly, aside from that "God.  Damn it." moment, can you give me one instance in which his manner of speaking WASN'T overly flowery and fancy, to the point of ridiculousness?  That's, like, his most defining trait.

He's a coward, never actually facing you himself until you reach the castle, and instead preferring to vandalize puzzle solutions and throw minions at you.

He seriously butters you up during the entire second shop conversation, and in fact almost constantly from the moment K.Round is defeated for the final time -- he says he's always on the winning side, which at the time is you, and does his best to claim he never truly opposed you at all, that everything was a test, he just wants to help you, etc.  The guy even tries to BRIBE you at the very end if you went pacifist, offering Susie a plate of worms for letting him lie about his involvement in your adventure, to boost his own ego.  

Did I forget to mention he's pretty much got a lot of the Rudinns and Clover (and a lot of fandom it seems) charmed with his looks and manner of speaking, and wrapped around his finger as well?  Because that.

Throughout the game, Rouxls really is nothing more than a big talker and a big liar.  Most obviously, the first time you talk to him in his shop he says quite a bit, but does a COMPLETE 180 on ALL OF IT after he's defeated for the final time, suddenly going from praising the King to hating his guts and claiming to be undermining him, from mocking the Fun/$!? Squad to praising them and offering assistance, and from complaining about Lancer to admitting he cares about the kid quite a bit.  

Also, consider:  His "ultimate puzzle", which he suspiciously refused to show us...

Even if it's not explicitly pointed out as such, Rouxls is King Spade's second in command, the guy serving directly under him in the castle in the absence of the Queen (or any other castle staff besides the guards, for that matter).  In very old decks before the Queen was a thing, Knights are in between the Page/Jack and the King and are considered the King's advisor/right hand guy.

Knights also have a lot of very close connections to Pages, both in card games as well as history.  A page is literally a knight's very young (age 7-14) apprentice and servant, and stick close to them and learn from them -- similar to Rouxls' lesser dad/son relationship with Lancer!  (Also, a thought:  medieval knights would often carry lances, supplied by said page!)

During battle, the King calls the Knight "My Knight".  This might confirm that the Knight is indeed a member of his own court, the Knight of Spades, and not of another suit.  However, from the tone and some of the other things he says throughout the battle, it’s clear that King Spade actually owes allegiance to the Knight, rather than the other way around.  Possibly even some fondness for him, from that particular tone.  And...I'm not gonna beat around the bush on this.  King Spade is totally Rouxls' sugar daddy.  The King just up and fires everyone in his castle, and gives this random unqualified prettyboy the next-highest position after himself out of absolutely nowhere?  Yeah.  No.  Even incompetent kings don't just do that.  There's something really weird going on there, something about their relationship that screams there’s some shady business going on behind the scenes.  Though, potentially, one could also flip the script, seeing the new job as repayment for putting King Spade in power...

One final point, getting a bit away from the card again.  In the game, The Knight is supposed to have a close connection with the Dark Fountains, able to “pull them from the Earth” and manipulate their power to bring darkness or whatever, right?  When using the Card Castle fountain to go home, Kris and Susie teleport in a massive column of white light, that looks like this:

(Sorry, screenshotting that particular moment is tough...)

Look a little familiar?

Yep, I'm gonna go there.  The same goddamn teleport animation.  Nowhere else in the game is that particular animation used, even when it kinda should -- for instance, Jevil’s scythes also teleport in vertical columns of light, but those look entirely different!

There's some other things about Rouxls that actually make me super suspicious of the guy, but one that does so even more now, that I really should bring up if I'm claiming him to be The Knight:  Remember that last battle against K.Round?  When Rouxls brings out his "Control Crowne"?  That lets him control anything “disc-shaped”, and (if we take Ralsei's word for it) looks incredibly painful?  

...What the actual living FUCK??!  Seriously, is no one else IMMENSELY ALARMED by the fact that not only is this crown a thing that exists, but for some goddamn reason it just happens to be in the puzzle guy's possession??

I'm bringing that point up for a pretty big reason, though:  Another name for the Diamonds/Pentacles suit is DISKS.  If Rouxls wasn't just bluffing (like he does on everything else, admittedly), there's a good chance he might be able to use that crown on Diamond cards as well.

And Rouxls DEFINITELY has a lot of interesting connections to Diamonds himself, beyond that.  Rudinns generally seem to be pretty enamored with the guy, and the whole suit is all about money and even represent the Merchant, or if you will, the shopkeeper class.  (And if you ask him why he’s selling things to you, he will admit he's raising money, for...some reason.)  In a four-color deck, Diamonds are usually represented by the color blue instead of red.  Also, Diamonds/Pentacles represent the Earth element, which is where one would find worms and insects.  So, he may very well have a close connection to Diamonds, as well as being the Knight of Spades...

I'll get back to that one as well, though, because there's another point I wanna bring into this whole card mess that might complicate things.  Because while researching, I found a very, very interesting little bit of trivia about the Joker card...

Second half of this post and a LOT more fun cracktheories under the cut.  Yep, you heard me, I'm still only halfway done here!

So.  The Jokers, Fool and Magician, former members of the card court, before...something went wrong.  You know how Jevil (and presumably Seam, as his only equal) can apparently do anything?  Well, while researching Tarot, I also randomly looked into the Jokers and their functions in a couple of other card games, the biggest being Spades, because why not.

In Spades, the Joker card can attach itself to any non-Spade card in the deck to make it count as the equivalent Spade, though still inferior to the real Spade card.  In other words, Jokers can turn other cards into Spades.

No, I'm serious.  Look for yourself.

This idea I’m mostly just having some fun with here, but if this little bit of trivia happens to come into play in the next few Deltarune chapters, it might have some SERIOUS implications on what we know about the Spades court.  In particular, it means we might not be able to take...really, any of the Spades characters we meet at face value (pun not intended, but appropriate).

But you know what?  I think we should take a closer look at the Spades we already know, and see if that might already be the case.  

The King fits his card description very well, and we actually see the other three kings locked up in a cage, so none of them could have been converted into the King of Spades.  So, we can pretty much confirm he's who we think.

But, then there's Lancer.  So far, he's the only Jack we've seen -- I know the card characters were originally based on a set of playing card designs by @kanotynes, and that the Jacks in that deck included not only Lancer but also the various minor enemies we see:  Rudinn, Hathy, and Clover.  But, in the game, those three don't seem to have any royal ties at all, definitely not as princes!  So, I think we can confirm that they're not actually the Jacks of other suits in Deltarune.

So, I'm gonna go back to my first Tarot loose end -- the Page of Spades/Swords, Lancer.  Remember how I pointed out some pieces of the card's description didn't fully match the kid?  The secrets, the concealing of one's true nature?

What if Lancer's not the Jack of Spades at all, but rather another Jack that was converted into a Spade by one of the Jokers for whatever reason?  Let's take a quick look at the other Pages, and see if one fits Lancer a bit more, shall we?

The Page of Hearts/Cups:  A "sweet-natured child", immature, creative, naive, a bad childhood, and self-centeredness.  Not a bad fit for Lancer, gotta admit!

The Page of Diamonds/Pentacles:  Planning for and seizing future success and opportunities, loyalty, sometimes associated with fruit trees and harvests (”Delicious little apple” / "Sweet little peach"?), and most importantly, a student, constantly learning just like the Page of Swords.  Also not a bad fit, though maybe a little less than the Page of Cups.

Now for the really fun one.  The Page of Clubs/Wands:  Inspiration, optimism, also creativity and making plans, rushing into things without thinking (appropriate for the Knight's charge...), "a bit of a cheeky charmer or lovable rogue", impatience, laziness, and a big emphasis on "losing yourself".  Also, did I mention that Wands represent the fire element?

So, really all three other Pages have elements that fit this kid in different ways, but some of the things about that Page of Clubs are...striking, to say the least.  This possibility might be worth keeping in mind when chapter 2 ever gets released!

Now, then, there's also another Spade we know, even if unconfirmed, with no known equivalents in other suits to rule out.  Could Rouxls also have been another suit, and got converted into the Knight of Spades?  

Remember all those weird connections to the Diamonds suit I pointed out?  Well, let's talk about the Knight of Diamonds -- A Red Knight, if you will!

"A young man who is dark of complexion and features."  This is an actual quote from Wikipedia. 

Defensive -- focus on protecting home and family.

Hard worker, determined, stubborn, finishing what you start.

All about questioning one's work or home life, or where they stand on an issue.

An animal lover.

The "wish card", about making your wishes and dreams come true, via perseverance and ambition.

Also, a negative interpretation is a loser or laziness, expecting results but not putting in the effort.  

Not a PERFECT fit, but still an interesting comparison, no?  Especially those things about fulfilling your wish, but failing by not putting in the effort required, kinda like how Rouxls is quite proud of becoming the high-ranking and privileged "Duke of Puzzles", but doesn’t actually put together anything other than simple block-pushing puzzles.  Another thought that comes up:  The control crown(e).  If Rouxls was originally a high-ranking Diamond/Disk suit, that fucking thing suddenly makes WAY more sense.  (Also, it would make all the Blue Diamond comparisons really funny in hindsight.  Just saying.)

Yeah, I know, claiming that Rouxls is the Knight is a big enough deal, and this extra cracktheory about him being a Knight who switched suits  is one even I'm admitting it’s crazy, and over-analyzing is just what I do.  Who knows if all or any of this will still be plausible by chapter 2.  However, worth noting:  If Rouxls was originally another suit, and got converted into the "Lesser” Knight of Spades/Swords by one of the Jokers, then there is very likely ANOTHER Knight of Spades/Swords out there, a much more powerful one.  Hm...

...Naaaah.  Too obvious. And on the same note, if my cracktheory about Lancer being the “lesser” Jack of Spades up there ends up actually being somewhat accurate, then there's also an original one out there somewhere...

...Maybe?  If you look at that description up there again, it actually seems to fit Ralsei even better than it fits Lancer -- the things about concealing one's true nature, keeping secrets, intelligence, and analysis suddenly become quite fitting.  And didn't Ralsei's original concept art include a reversed spade instead of a heart on the front of his robe?

So, if these are the case, what card is Susie?  I'm...admittedly not sure.  ^^;  I bet someone else can find a card that fits her though, so I'll leave that one open.

Okay, okay, I'm done with the wild theories now.  Lastly, I just wanna mention a couple of other interesting, weird card things I found out while researching.  Won't go as in-depth with these, but including them because why not:

A lot of people have been theorizing about the idea of Darkners bleeding like humans, and unlike monsters.  What if I told you that "bleeding" is an actual card term?  When you bleed your cards, you're accidentally exposing your hand to other players out of turn.

Remember when Rouxls called the party "mine amigose"?  Kind of an odd line, especially coming from him, but it was actually another card game reference!  Also from Spades is the term "Three amigos":  A nickname for the Ace, Queen, and King of Spades.  Interestingly, the Ace of Swords is all about cutting through lies and exposing the truth.  (Maybe that could be a card for Susie in future chapters?)

Hell, there’s just a LOT of card references thrown all over the place.  A cute one is when Jevil says “piip piip” during his fight -- like the dots on dice, the individual symbols on number cards are called pips.

Want another fun Tarot card meaning?  Take a good look at the Nine of Swords.  It's generally considered the worst card you could get, even in a mostly positive reading -- It's literally called The Nightmare, and represents fear, stress, being overwhelmed, grief, doubts, cruelty, etc.  Basically, if it's bad, it's in this card, up to and including a complete breakdown.  Now, recall another line that seems totally benign at first, courtesy of Jevil:  "From now, a nightmare will awaken in your hearts.  In the shadow of the Knight's hand..."  If I were y'all, I'd make damn sure to WATCH THIS CARD.

Also, "The Knight's hand"...of cards, perhaps?  :P  Okay, bad joke.  

There's sometimes three Jokers in a deck -- a white one in addition to black and red.  Just sayin'.  Might wanna also keep your eyes open for a third Joker in chapter 2, maybe chilling out with the Queen wherever she is? 

[reactingtosomething]

Kris Reacts to The Defenders (cont’d)

"For Whatever It’s Worth, I’m Glad You’re Here.”

Find my off-the-cuff mini-Reactions to the first five episodes of The Defenders here. A full-sized Reaction with some others may be forthcoming later in the week. SPOILERS AFTER THE JUMP for the rest of the season. Some non-spoilery, mostly Daredevil-related thoughts first.

I feel even more strongly than before that to get very much out of The Defenders, you really should watch both seasons of Daredevil. There are for sure lots of quality Jessica-Luke moments, don’t get me wrong, and in the unlikely event that your favorite Defender show is Iron Fist, Colleen Wing gets a surprising amount to do. But the most important non-Defender characters, including significant villains, are from Daredevil’s supporting cast.

I love Matt Murdock (although not as much as Caroline loves Matt Murdock), but he has got to stop referring to New York (or is it just Hell’s Kitchen, or Manhattan? I’ve never been sure) as “my city.” Especially when Daredevil never really gave us a sense of what either the Kitchen in particular or NYC in general means to him. In fact, I’d love a moratorium on all superheroes referring to “My City,” especially if we rarely see them interacting with the people and places of “their” cities in meaningful, specific civilian capacities. The bar here is set by Luke Cage, which in two episodes does more to flesh out Harlem than the entirety of either Daredevil or Jessica Jones (which are otherwise the best entries in the Defenders series) did for Hell’s Kitchen.

The Defenders shares a composer, John Paesano, with Daredevil. This is not surprising, as these shows also share showrunners, Douglas Petrie and Marco Ramirez (who were producer-writers under Drew Goddard and later Steven DeKnight in Daredevil s1). What is surprising is how much I like the music in these shows. It’s pretty melody-light, and vaguely “atmospheric,” and there’s a lot of repetitive percussion, which all taken together is generally a style that annoys me. But what usually annoys me about that style is that it’s intended to blend into the background, to not really be noticed at all. And Paesano’s music, while it isn’t always super prominent in the sound mix or anything, uses simple but still hummable leitmotifs that -- even if in your experience their overall impression is to blend in -- can be recognized as very Of This Show. In other words, unlike many movies that have melody-light or even effectively melody-less scores, often with aggressive percussion, things scored by Paesano actually have musical identities (including Mass Effect: Andromeda, whose musical identity is probably the second-best thing about it, after combat).

Take the first music we hear in season 2 of Daredevil, “The Devil of Hell’s Kitchen”:

At first this seems like it’s just gonna be generic chasing-and-punching music, from literally any post-Bourne action franchise, but around 1:14, the ostinato that’s the backbone of the title theme kicks in. It’s much faster than in the titles, but instantly recognizable. Even if you don’t consciously recognize it in the moment, you probably feel a distinctly Daredevil vibe. It goes away again for a bit as the action of the scene ends, but returns as we see Matt (relatively) clearly for the first time in the season, a devil perched on a chapel.

This music from the climactic fight of the s2 finale, “They Have Nothing Now,” is another good example, riffing on both the ostinato and the main melody that starts about 18 seconds into the title theme.

Contrast this with the Guardians of the Galaxy movies, which do have a melodic instrumental theme, but which you almost certainly don’t associate with the movies or the characters. Partly this is because it’s just OK, but mostly it’s because what anyone remembers about those soundtracks are the needle drops of the Awesome Mixes. Don’t get me wrong, the Awesome Mixes are cool and all. But they also consist of music that most people would not specifically or exclusively associate with Guardians. Weirdly, the same composer worked on Atomic Blonde, which takes a similar approach to its music. This always seems to me like a missed opportunity. It’s like your movie or your show is somehow incomplete. What is Star Wars without John Williams? Or Batman: The Animated Series without Shirley Walker, 30 Rock without Jeff Richmond, Battlestar Galactica without Bear McCreary, Game of Thrones without Ramin Djawadi? What is Wonder Woman’s No Man’s Land without “No Man’s Land”? 

Anyway, all this to say that I’m a weirdo who REALLY LOVES A LOT that when a character briefly plays an instrument late in The Defenders, what they play is the show’s simple, vaguely Danny Elfman-esque title theme, rather than some overused classical piece.

Moving on... spoilers below!

There’s a lot about The Defenders that doesn’t work, and we’ll get to some of it. But unexpectedly, what’s stuck with me -- perhaps its single greatest achievement -- is that after the shitshow of his solo series, it renders Danny Rand pretty likable. Or at least, much easier to empathize with, much more often, than in Iron Fist.

In episode 6 when he’s tied up and Luke is babysitting, Luke (sarcastically) asks him to recount again the story of how he earned the Iron Fist by punching a dragon in the heart. Danny has a very bad sarcasm radar, and complies, and Luke has to remind him that he doesn’t give a shit or even really believe him (EVEN AFTER ALL THE WEIRD SHIT THAT’S HAPPENED). And Danny gives this sigh that back in Iron Fist I probably would’ve found petulant and childish. It does still feel, for lack of a better word, very young here. But I also found myself honestly feeling bad for the guy. He’s trying so hard, and in episode 4 he was the only one who (this is crucial) like the audience was rooting for the team to be a team, yet everyone keeps treating him like an annoying little sibling. Also, he’s telling the truth, he’s been telling the truth since he got back to New York (admittedly in the least persuasive ways possible at the start of Iron Fist), and since he got back to New York almost no one has believed him. And finally there comes the one guy in The Defenders who doesn’t have to believe Danny because he knows that Danny’s telling the truth: Stick. But then Stick is the one who wants to take Danny off the board at the top of episode 6, pulling the rug out from under him just when it seemed he had an all-in ally and even a potential mentor (something he realized he still needed very badly late in Iron Fist). This can’t be a fun place.

So that sigh actually carried some decent emotional weight for me. All the more because Luke immediately realized he’d genuinely hurt Danny’s feelings, and not just “get over yourself, you privileged white boy” feelings but “this is a central part of his identity that I’m mocking mercilessly” feelings.

Now, to be clear, Danny is an annoying little sibling. But Iron Fist never really recognized this, because it wanted Danny to be an imposing, menacing badass when what it needed him to be -- what The Defenders makes him -- is sweetly goofy and eager-to-please, a puppy who just happens to also be a trained killing machine. Danny’s the kind of guy that the cast of Leverage would call “adorable” with equal parts condescension and fondness, the kind of guy about whom you might say “bless his heart” and actually kind of mean it.

It should surprise no one who knows me well that despite all of the above, I Extremely Approve of Elektra pretty easily outclassing Danny in their fight at the end of episode 7, Iron Fist or no Iron Fist. 

But as Caroline mentions in her thoughts on her Patreon (and as she discussed in her Daredevil s2 reviews), it’s never super clear what it means for Elektra to be “the Black Sky.” For that matter it’s still unclear (though more deliberately) what the full potential extent of Danny’s Iron Fist powers is. And I think The Defenders could’ve gotten a lot more mileage out of parallels between Danny and Elektra as “living weapons.”

In general I’d hoped, perhaps foolishly, for a lot more from Elektra than we got. I didn’t have any problems with the acting, to be clear; I’m basically in love with Elodie Yung, entirely on the strength of her absurdly charismatic performance in Daredevil. But because Elektra doesn’t come back to life with her memories, Yung has to spend most of The Defenders keeping that charisma locked away, until a Plot Twist (Elektra killing Alexandra!) that I’m not convinced entirely works. I went along with it wholeheartedly anyway because it meant Yung got to unleash her full powers again. Or it would’ve been her full powers, if there’d been a lot more time to flesh out exactly what and who Elektra 3.0 is. 

We get a complete-ish answer by the end of the show, when it becomes clear that Elektra not only has her memories of Matt back but is still in love with him. But this is a character whose main challenge in her first life was that she was never permitted to figure out for herself what she wanted to do with that life, and “hijack the Hand’s plan to return to K’un Lun, and more importantly become immortal” -- though immortality certainly makes sense as a thing Elektra would want -- doesn’t come close to concretely addressing the ultimately relatable existential crisis (what is my place in the world?) that she faced in Daredevil. 

Sigourney Weaver is able to sell a desire for immortality as Alexandra Reid’s overriding concern because we meet her getting a (vaguely defined) terminal disease diagnosis, and because we spend a lot of time with Alexandra dwelling on her physical fragility and on her concerns about legacy. Yung’s Elektra doesn’t have that way in, and the writers don’t have the time or space in the last act of the season to do more than gesture broadly at Elektra’s desire to finally decide her own destiny. I think the reason this doesn’t land as well as it ought to is that it’s framed as a Villain Monologue, delivered to Danny, a character with whom she doesn’t have history. She doesn’t have this conversation with Stick (she just stabs him), and worse, she doesn’t really have it with Matt outside the chaos of a fight scene, though at least they get that last (?) kiss.

There’s a lot of lazy dialogue in The Defenders, especially in the finale, though thankfully these actors for whom we have a lot of banked affection just about pull it off. The last line of the cold open -- Luke’s “let’s go do something crazy” -- is... just kind of there? Which is a weird choice for the first big punctuation mark in the climactic chapter of this crossover event. He could’ve said that at basically any other point of the show; this should have been a line he could only say at this moment. 

Trish’s “Jess is a good friend speech” to Karen is not great. It’s not awful, either, but it’s not all that specific: Jess doesn’t do any of the things most of us in the real world ask our friends to do, “but when it comes to the real stuff, the stuff that’ll last forever...” What is that stuff? That Trish is interrupted by Malcolm and Foggy with some Bad News feels a little like the writers just didn’t know how to finish that sentence. How exactly are Matt and Jessica good friends? Yeah yeah yeah, they save your life, cool, standard superhero. But what’s the last time Matt in particular was 100 percent emotionally there for you? I do remember Jess and Trish’s friendship being my favorite part of Jessica Jones, but it’s been almost two years and some details would’ve been nice. 

Actively bad is the exchange that ends this scene: “That was the epicenter.” “Of what?” “Everything.” That’s just -- come on. That’s nowhere near as profound as it seems to want to be. That Midland was the epicenter of the earthquake is PLENTY to convey to the others that “ohhhhh that WASN’T a natural earthquake and shit’s about to go down.” In the abstract, “EVERYTHING” may sound more important than “the earthquake.” But the latter was a major inciting incident of The Defenders, and because none of these characters actually knows all of the other pieces the Defenders themselves are concerned with, the specificity of the earthquake is what should have been prized.

(In general, though, I did love that Karen and Trish got a scene together.) 

Luckily the best lines -- or at least, the best line readings -- of the episode come in the scene immediately afterward:

JESS: If you’d told me a week ago that I’d be here, with you two, about to blow up some building and fight ninjas to save New York... LUKE: (sigh) MATT: (chuckle) For whatever it’s worth, I’m glad you’re here. JESS: What? MATT: No, circumstances could be better, I’m just saying, you know -- I’m glad we found each other. LUKE: I’m not hugging you. MATT: (resigned sigh) JESS: You guys ready or what? LUKE: No. MATT: ...No. JESS: Sounds about right.

The sheer endearing-ness and tonal perfection of this moment is hard to convey in writing. Charlie Cox’s delivery of Matt’s “No” in particular is just terrifically world-weary. The other thing I need to say about this scene is that I identify a weird amount with Matt’s series-long resistance to the team culminating in a belated moment of emotional openness, only for him to be met with the realization that the emotional availability of others doesn’t work on his schedule. 

It’s possible I’m reading way too much into this. After all, I also identify with Luke’s resistance to hugging it out.

(My favorite dialogue in the show is probably still the “Are those pork?”-through-“God, you’re weird” exchange of episode 4.)

Another dialogue thing that stood out to me in the finale was the repeated trope of The Moment I Saw You.

Elektra, to Matt: “We’re together. Something I’ve wanted since I first laid eyes on you.”

Claire, to Foggy, about Matt: “But there was no talking him down. He had his mind made up the day I met him.”

This isn’t remotely unique to The Defenders, but it is a trope I tend to find annoying. I don’t think I believe in love at first sight, is probably part of my problem here, and I guess I get it if your mileage varies on that particular account. But it also feels lazy that it happens twice in a relatively narrow span of time, and about the same character, no less. Arguably more importantly, this is -- I know I lean on variations of this word a lot -- such an unspecific thing to say, in a show that had SO MUCH specificity at its disposal in the solo series. Why “since I first laid eyes on you” rather than a callback to something Matt said that night, or to their Sexy Sparring Session? Why “the day I met him” rather than a reference to Claire stitching Matt back together, or finding Matt in a literal dumpster?

(I liked that Claire and Foggy got an “our mutual friend” scene, but as others have said, it’s super weird that Claire and Matt never had a moment.)

There’s probably also something to say here about destiny and purpose, which ties into Elektra and Danny, and into the formation of the team itself, but again the show didn’t really make the time for that. I'm absolutely not suggesting that they needed 13 episodes -- I just don’t think they really managed their time well -- but with so many characters to serve, maybe 10 would’ve been interesting? To give Elektra a more robust arc post-Alexandra, if nothing else?

(About Alexandra -- I read some reviews to the effect that Sigourney Weaver held the first few episodes of The Defenders together through sheer force of will and Sigourney Weaver-ness, but I did not feel that way at all. I mean I thought she was very good, but the writing mostly wasn’t deep or clever enough for her to take the character of Alex anywhere near the level of Cottonmouth or Kilgrave or Wilson Fisk, and I think this “Sigourney Weaver is the best thing about The Defenders” take was mostly wishful projection on the part of people who know her corpus much better than I do. I’ve seen Alien but not Aliens; #sorrynotsorry.)

I did love that both in the premiere and the finale, Luke got to call back to Pop’s “Forward” mantra, without repeating the full “Forward always, always forward.” It was a nice way to show that Pop’s philosophy is thoroughly a part of him now, and that -- unlike Jessica, the person he’s with for the second callback -- he’s really deliberately thinking about his future.

I also liked, or wanted to like, that Jessica said maybe they could get coffee, but I wasn’t entirely sure what was intended by this. See, in Luke Cage, “coffee” turns out to be a euphemism Luke uses for sex, or at least a one-night stand.  But he’s with Claire now, which may be a reason he doesn’t deliver the established winking response from his own show: “I don’t drink coffee.” (Misty said it to him back then; he replied, “Neither do I.” I don’t think Luke not drinking coffee was a thing in Jessica Jones, and even if it was, it would totally be in character for Jess not to remember.) Apart from the lack of a callback response, my uncertainty comes from “we should get coffee” almost inevitably meaning, in my experience, “we are definitely not going to make the effort to get coffee,” even if we’re both totally sincere about wanting to catch up, which seems like a relatable social phenomenon Jess would snark about. 

To backtrack a bit -- that big fight scene in episode 7, against Gao and Bakuto and Murakami? It was... not shot well. Way too claustrophobic, and at least by the high standards of Daredevil, way too choppily edited. Most of the fights in The Defenders were underwhelming -- really missed Philip Silvera’s work -- but that one in particular stood out as a mess. (Caroline remarked that it’s a shame the fighting styles of the team aren’t better differentiated, at least in the show’s latter half; this is particularly true for Matt and Danny. It’s interesting that although Finn Jones is overall much better at the action here than he was in Iron Fist, the fights in The Defenders do lose a fair bit of the wushu character that previously distinguished his hand techniques, at least, from Matt’s.)

Anyway, I could probably say more -- I’m particularly sorry I haven’t done justice to the Jessica-Luke dynamic, or to the Daughters of the Dragon -- but I’ve lost most semblance of a train of thought here, so I’ll stop. I do recommend checking out all of Caroline's Random Thoughts, and, as always, the episode reviews over at The AV Club. (As of this writing the AVC is currently on episode 5.)

Though I did want a lot more from The Defenders in a lot of ways, as with the pretty strange and uneven Age of Ultron it was still a lot of fun to spend time with these characters, both alone and together. This was very much a show that did not manage to be more than the sum of its parts, but at least many of those parts were very pleasant. And frankly, I’m glad the run of episodes 6 through 8 was the last thing I watched this weekend, rather than the trainwreck (Tormund banter, zombie burning, and Dany’s winter wardrobe notwithstanding) that was this season’s penultimate episode of Game of Thrones.

I’m also cautiously optimistic about the possibility of a Luke Cage-Iron Fist team-up show, and to a lesser extent even -- I can’t believe I’m gonna say this -- the next solo season of Iron Fist (which will have a new showrunner -- Scott Buck is helming Inhumans, something about which I have strong feelings that we just can’t get into right now -- and add Simone Missick’s Misty Knight to its roster). If that’s not an endorsement, I don’t know what is.

[cardboardhogs]

I grew up in Texas and snow is not a normal thing for me.  When i was 9 we had a huge blizzard in San Antonio, 14″ to be exact.  It was absolutely nuts…as a kid though, fantastic!    It was a freakish event that i will never forget.  Rafik and I missed a couple days of school and had the greatest time ever.  We watched Chris Marrou tell us about the school closures and hoped it would never end!  Our days were filled with bags of sugar to fuel the moments in between epic snowball fights and a rudimentary snow man construction site.  It was the greatest of times for every kid in town.

When we were able (forced) to go back to school, our classrooms had so many leaks that we were huddled en masse in the schools gym.  A very large, crowded and noisy gym.  A gym on the edge of child anarchy.  It was one conch away from being a snowy version of Lord of the Flies.  The teachers were on edge trying to keep us all in line for the couple of days.  We were being taught in a prefabricated building not suited for long division or lessons on social studies.  But they did it and they were the real MVP’s that week.

But now…

I’m a tall adult that likes collecting things like cards and books and also likes rap music.  I also like familiarity and something i can depend on…surprises don’t work well for me.  For the last month or so, my part of Portland has had 3 different weekends of snow…g’darn freakin’ snow!!!  Now, don’t get me wrong, snow is cool when you go to it and are able to look at it and touch it.  But when it comes to you as an unwanted guest, it’s a bit of an annoyance.  We haven’t have had a ruler lengths of snow, but enough to shut the city down a couple of days and keep me from work.  It’s also made my snow driving (sliding) skills ratchet up a tick or two.

All the snow that i was surrounded by made me cave and pick up a box of cards with snow flakes on them.  Subliminal marketing.  Well done Topps, you got me.  Now, let’s see what you gave me Topps.

One of the first things i noticed about these cards is the streaking on the card fronts.  Half of the cards in the blaster box contained the streaking.  Maybe the other bloggers have already touched on this and as usual, i’m late to the party, but it seems that the quality of these cards may have been left to be what they are.  Not super upset about it, but a little disappointed with these…especially the Kershaw card.

Another thing that was very noticeable is the large amount of white space, most notably on the landscape cards.  Guess that’s the Topps blizzard parallel…?  Seems like a little gradient or transparency could have been a savior for Nick’s card.

These cards were awesome in their original issue and Ricky Bones seems to be dressed appropriately for this card, while Mike Trout is attempting to catch a tiny little snowflake.  Is snow flake one or two words?  snowflake snow flake…

Dickey Flakes should be a cereal, f’real.

Please let me digress a bit here.  Not sure if you have heard of Krampus, I hadn’t until about two weeks ago.  He’s an incredibly evil Germanic character created to scare the shit out of bad kids…to be honest, i saw a video of him and was a tad scared.  We used the Krampus tactic over the holidays to keep our little snowflake/snow flake in line.  For the most part it worked…but i feel guilty about it in hindsight.  I would point out the window, similar to what Carlos Correa is doing and say “I SEE KRAMPUS!!” and my child of 51 months would run off terrified, similar to what Jed Lowrie is doing.  The things parents to do get done what they want to get done the way they want it to get done.  Not my best parenting story…but sadly, it yielded the result i was looking for.

We now begin the bumpy snowflake portion of the blog post with a couple winners.  Dexter and Kris.  It’s a shame Ernie Banks didn’t get to see these guys win the title.  RIP #14.

If the card on the left was Steve rather than Nori Aoki, the hair on this pair would be most epic.  But it’s just Jacob and Nori.

My game used memorabilia card was Adam Jones which is pretty cool.  I really like Adam and often wonder what his career would have been like if the Mariners kept him..also wonder what would the Mariners could have done with his dependability over the incredibly fragile Erik Bedard…hindsight is 50/50 man..

So that’s my highlights from a Wal-Mart box of snowflake cards.  Rumor has it we may get some more snow in the next few days up here…remember that we are all snowflakes/snow flakes and nobody is like us…even though those Adam Jones cards are pretty much the same thing.

We’re all a snowflake… I grew up in Texas and snow is not a normal thing for me.  When i was 9 we had a huge blizzard in San Antonio, 14" to be exact.  

[reactingtosomething]

Reacting to Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (cont’d)

Part II: What If His Mom Was the Murder Planet?

The Setup: Find Part I of our Guardians Reaction here. As usual, annotations added after the fact are in italics.

The concept art above is by Andy Park.

SPOILERS BELOW.

MIRI: Ok, I think we’ve avoided this for too long: Kris, tell me your thoughts on Baby Groot. Or perhaps your thoughts about everyone else’s thoughts about Baby Groot.

KRIS: I think Baby Groot is fine

I just feel nowhere near the amount of love The Internet feels for him

MIRI: This surprises me not at all

KRIS: And as we briefly discussed this is completely unsurprising

MIRI: Exactly

Did you find Baby Groot to be a disappointment in comparison to adult Groot?

KRIS: I do think the extended gag of him trying and failing to fetch the control fin was the best comedy writing in the movie

MIRI: Ahhhhh yes

KRIS: Yeah, I guess so, though I’m having trouble putting my finger on it

Because both versions of Groot get their heart and their humor from a contradiction

Adult Groot is outwardly imposing and then we realize he’s so innocent

MIRI: I think it’s because you know you’re supposed to find him cuter than you do

Ohhhh

KRIS: Baby Groot is outwardly cute but then we learn that he still has his viciousness

MIRI: Whereas Baby Groot is adorable but a murder baby

KRIS: Yeah

MIRI: I mean, they really have reversed the heart of the character that way.

Huh

How do I feel about that

hmmmmm

KRIS: Adult Groot gets one of the best emotional beats of Vol 1, when “I am Groot” becomes “We are Groot”

MIRI: I guess it depends on if Baby Groot is genuinely Groot, reverted to childlike form

Or if it’s like a form of propagation--basically Groot’s baby

KRIS: Whereas Baby Groot is sort of a one-trick pony, albeit in a good way where you don’t really want more than that one trick

MIRI: I really enjoyed Baby Groot as a discrete concept

KRIS: Teenage Groot was surprisingly great

MIRI: But thinking about him compared to Groot is bumming me out a little

Yes, teenage Groot was delightful

But I think that’s a one trick that would get old super fast if they do that for the whole next one

KRIS: Way to tap into your inner teenager, Vin Diesel

MIRI: I mean I feel like he doesn’t have to reach too hard

KRIS: I really want Thor to meet Groot

Fair

MIRI: Adult Groot?

KRIS: I guess whichever Groot

MIRI: I now really want to know if the Second Coming Adult Groot will be the same as Adult Groot prime

KRIS: Seems like the Innocent Warrior vibe is right on Thor’s wavelength

Or at least early Thor and Ragnarok Thor

They lost the balance in between

KRIS: On reflection, I’m not actually convinced that Wiser, More Mature Thor is a bad thing for the MCU at large, but that’s neither here nor there.

MIRI: Is young Groot growing up to be the same version of himself, or is he a new person (Grootson) being shaped by these violent but ultimately loving misfits???

KRIS: I thiiiiink the comic treats him as one continuous Groot when he regenerates

MIRI: Then is the innocence supposed to be something he grows into somehow?

I mean, he was violent in the original movie

But not as deeply so

KRIS: I think his innocence is probably supposed to be his core, especially as a metaphor for Nature

MIRI: Maybe he would have been violent to anything that was a Groot sized rat thing, he just never came across that while big

I guess the whole not understanding the water fountain thing could be read in the same vein as the failure to retrieve the crest

Also, because it needs saying at some point: I did really love Baby Groot’s dance in the opening

And the whole hat bit

KRIS: That was a great opening I want to mention our snarky Arclight usher briefly

MIRI: I loved him

KRIS: Who seemed pretty miffed that Vol 2 repeats a lot of beats from Vol 1

MIRI: I hope his failed career as a standup comedian leads him to much happiness in his life

I mean that 100% and I didn’t mean for it to sound as mean as it did

KRIS: But at least on a second viewing, I thought the callbacks and parallels were mostly effective, and that credits sequence absolutely is in the THAT WORKED column

I did not love, on a structural level, that both movies have a middle that’s defined by the Guardians getting a long World-Buildy Explanation

Complete with Visual Aids

That repetition is one of the few things that worked worse for me on a second viewing

MIRI: But Kris, they needed to use that special effects budget up, or they won’t get as much next time!

We would be remiss if we didn’t mention the glory of Yondu’s rampage after he gets out of the cell

KRIS: One reason the repeated structure works (and I’m only realizing this now) is that each movie lets Quill come to terms with his feelings for a different parent

MIRI: Because that 100% worked for me

Ahhhhhhhh that’s such a good point!

See, I’m over here like “the murder arrow sequence was so funny!” and you’re hitting the underlying emotional structures

I think that sums us both up pretty well

Unfortunately (for me)

KRIS: Oh, see, I’m still ambivalent about that, because I just think Yondu is the epitome of an action problem these movies have: our heroes are Absolute Badasses..... except when the story needs them to lose

MIRI: 1) you’re entirely right

KRIS: Like how is Yondu not just completely unstoppable

MIRI: but 2) the sequence was really cool

KRIS: It looked amazing

And the music was particularly well used, I thought (as someone who did not grow up with any of this music)

MIRI: I think part of our difference on a lot of these points is what we wanted from this movie.

I didn’t super love the first one

I really really liked it

KRIS: Oh interesting

MIRI: But I didn’t LOVE it

So I was expecting this to be fun and funny

And it was

KRIS: I was totally on the BEST THING MARVEL’S DONE train the first time I saw the first one

And then I liked it a little less on Bluray viewings

MIRI: Right! So when parts of the second one are not the best, it hits you harder

I’m just kind of fatigued with Serious Action Movie superhero movies, so I’m a little more inclined to be forgiving of the flaws in something that’s a refreshing change from that type in other ways

I have a pretty high level of suspension of disbelief when I want to

KRIS: This is very true, and here is a Vox article anyone who feels this way should read

(Basically it’s about how even on a visual level Guardians is Bringing Fun Back to Superhero Movies)

MIRI: I miss the fun! I just want some movies/shows to enjoy what they are!!!!!

(Obligatory plug for everyone to watch the hell out of Wynonna Earp and Sweet Vicious)

((RIP Sweet Vicious))

I do want to jump back to your point about the unfailing hero..until the plot demands otherwise

Because it’s a really good one

KRIS: I have to say that I want coherent action physics/fighting hierarchies in any action-heavy genre entertainment

Even if it’s leaning on the Fun Train side of things

Again, Gamora’s fluctuating strength level bothered me a lot

MIRI: Yeah, I think that is a really basic expectation that I’ve let myself be conditioned out of I think people give in to a Rule of Cool type thing too easily

KRIS: Rocket is the Rule of Cool personified

MIRI: But he was designed in a lab, so anything can work!

*rolls eyes*

(but still loves most of it in the moment)

KRIS: (There’s actually a really fun running gag in the recent-ish Guardians comics where Tony joins the team, and Rocket is constantly giving him shit for how primitive Tony’s tech is)

MIRI: that sounds amazing

KRIS: Like Tony is amazed by how convenient their communications technology is and Rocket is like how do you people get anything done?

MIRI: But seriously: yes, it looks awesome for Gamora to pick up the gun that is literally bigger than her, but if she’s that strong she needs to always be that strong

KRIS: Gamora also ends up being strangled a lot for some reason throughout these movies

I don’t THINK it’s a creepy gendered thing because Ronan also almost kills Drax by strangling

But it’s like this lazy “oh what’s a position of weakness to put our action hero in” thing

I guess/hope

MIRI: You know what is a creepy gender thing? The supposedly super practical assassin always wearing crop tops and boots with heels

KRIS: WHAT is with those heels?

MIRI: THANK YOU It might be partially because she’s a very petite woman

KRIS: They’re a carryover from Vol 1 when they make even less sense

MIRI: if I recall correctly

KRIS: Yes but

MIRI: I know

KRIS: ScarJo has elevated heels in the Avengers movies

But they’re blocky so you can’t tell unless you’re looking

Because it’s mostly to make her taller

But Gamora’s have those goofy holes in them!

MIRI: Anytime you can get Kris talking very specifically about things he doesn’t know the names of is a good time. (Not that I know exactly what to call the “goofy holes” either)

MIRI: I also have some concerns about Mantis. She is really subservient 

And I don’t think any sort of gender/ethnicity thing was intended, but it’s still pretty unfortunate

KRIS: Hmm yeah

MIRI: Also, I don’t think it should be ignored that the actors who are POC end up in full body paint more than the white dudes

KRIS: I think it mostly slipped by for me because with Nebula as a bigger presence and Ayesha (Elizabeth Debicki) as a secondary villain, Mantis didn’t feel too “token girl” and there was a decent range of character types for the women

But low bars and all that

Yes the POC thing is sticky

MIRI: Again, no one’s intention, I’m sure. But it’s always the white guy (named Chris) who is the starting point, and then they fill in the universe from there, which makes everyone else automatically some flavor of Other

Oh, real quick on Ayesha: When she had her hair down she made me think of Ivanka Trump

I genuinely believe that is how Ivanka Trump sees herself

KRIS: Oh man yeah

MIRI: I cannot back it up in any way, but I know it to be true

KRIS: While we’re on the Sovereign, the whole arcade setup for their ships was a pretty good gag

And even almost came into the general vicinity of commenting on the gamification of war

MIRI: Yes! Really liked them going from dignity to anger at losing the game

KRIS: That is probably the most (unduly?) generous thing I will say about the writing

MIRI: Ok, I’m thinking about low bars and things we’re tired of having to complain about and I have a thought

What if Quill didn’t have the obligatory dead mom?

What if he had a dead dad?

And his mom was the murder planet

KRIS: I’m listening

MIRI: I think there would be so much more there in terms of our expectations of a mother figure

And the question of creation vs destruction

I suppose it fits less with our general narrative of Judeo Christian creation and males as spending their genes as widely as possible

MIRI: Or, you know, spreading

KRIS: Right right

MIRI: But I also think it’s less played out and therefore more interesting if you reverse it some I don’t have anything more coherent to say, but I like the idea

KRIS: Yeah, here we can definitely say that as thematically perfect as Papa Planet’s self-obsession was for a Quill arc, it’s also a really good example of why we want and need other types of people writing and directing these stories

One of Caroline’s AV Club pieces I like a lot was about how Daredevil explores different masculinities

And Guardians 2 definitely strikes me as exploring, in a simpler way, sort of foundational ideas we have about Being a Man

KRIS: Where I sort of forgot I was going here was that even though I think the Ego/Quill stuff makes a lot of thematic sense, "Being a Man” is not exactly untrodden territory, and a woman writing and/or directing a story like this could probably have found a theme that hasn’t been done to death in this genre space.

MIRI: I’m wondering about the fact that barely touched on stories often work better than secondary ones--in this case Nebula (esp in Volume 1) vs Gamora. I think it might be because when writing Gamora, they’re very aware of writing The Woman’s story, and keeping her accessible as a love interest. Whereas Nebula is a factor in that story, rather than her own story. So she gets less well-intentioned-but-poorly-executed thought and is instead just written as a character

Does that make any sense?

KRIS: Yyyyes

MIRI: I saw Guardians 2 as more of an exploration of how to be a family than how to be a man, but I definitely think Being a Man is a big factor, if only because men are most of the characters

KRIS: I do think family was sort of the all-encompassing theme, but in the A-story I thought there was a definite thread of interrogating Quill’s macho-ness through his dad

Or interrogating is too fancy of a word but you know what I mean

MIRI: right

KRIS: Re: family, all I really had for “Fast and Furious parallels” was “affectless bald man saying ‘Family’”

MIRI: But would you say Yondu’s is more Man or family? hahahahahahhaa

KRIS: Hmmm

MIRI: And also Vin Diesel is there

KRIS: I guess I’d split the difference and say Father?

or “Daddy,” I guess

MIRI: Yeah I did not enjoy the Daddy line

KRIS: Can we go back to the romance question for a minute?

MIRI: Always!

KRIS: Do you think Pratt and Saldana have chemistry?

I don’t really feel it

MIRI: Huh. I don’t think they do

And I think at least part of that has to come from the weird inconsistencies in her character

She’s supposed to be all conservative and removed and immune to his pelvic sorcery

But she’s also wearing these ridiculous outfits with half her tits showing

MIRI: Please note that I am a fan of people showing as much or as little of their tits as they choose, but when it’s a character and it makes NO SENSE for that character in any other way I call bullshit

KRIS: Yeah that makes sense. I will probably not hate the eventual official Becoming a Couple because they’ve been low key and patient about it, but since they don’t have Tony-Pepper level chemistry it’s definitely easier to get pulled out of it and just see “oh, designated endgame”

MIRI: Yeah, the strings are very much visible there And I don’t hate it but I definitely don’t love it

KRIS: I mean I would have LOVED if the way they took the family theme had been specifically “orphan siblings” so Gamora became everyone’s sister

Which would have added an interesting level of resentment to Nebula’s story here

MIRI: I mean I’m always low-key annoyed that the 1/5 gender ratio means the woman is always eventually going to be in a relationship dynamic while the men only are if it fits, because of that same disparity

KRIS: Yep

MIRI: YES YES YES

That would have been so interesting!!!

This little crew of orphans, which 3 of them very much are already

Finding family and support in the middle of being violent bounty hunters jetting through space

That is all I ever want ever

KRIS: I also just finished rewatching Selfie, if anyone is looking for something else where Karen Gillan is alternately hilarious, hangry, and heartbreaking, that doesn’t demand the time or emotional commitment of Doctor Who.

KRIS: I guess we should tie this off pretty soon. Any last major thoughts?

MIRI: I really enjoyed it, and I’m here for more things being enjoyable

That said, the fact that they did some things SO well does make the more sizable inconsistencies grate a bit more in retrospect

KRIS: I will always wish everyone could write dialogue better, and I’m pretty sure like the first one better, but I’ve largely come around to enthusiastic approval

And ACT 2 IS SO SLOW

except when it cuts to Rocket and Yondu

MIRI: I am in awe of their balance of humor and action. Really blew a lot of other films out of the water on that score

Oh, and props to Sean Gunn for pulling his fairly absurd character off with grace!

“I didn’t mean to do a mutiny. They killed all my friends”

KRIS: Yeah, the best way to watch this is as a family dramedy with action bookends

KRIS: Should clarify here that I meant “family” in the sense of theme, as opposed to “fun for the whole family!”, but I have heard of friends-of-friends bringing 8-year-olds or so to see it with no problems.

MIRI: in that accent/voice and I still bought it 100%

KRIS: Yeah he worked really well

And I forget where but you can probably find a really sweet interview with James Gunn about how he loves working with his brother

MIRI: awww

You know how I love the sibling relationships

KRIS: Karen Gillan for Secretary of Swagger and/or Sullenness

MIRI: Oh, and I never need to see a nervous system becoming a man from the inside out ever again. That needs to stop being a thing

KRIS: Swagger more so in Vol 1, I guess

MIRI: Very much agreed

I need her to be in more things

Ok, done?

KRIS: Yes

In closing

I’M MARY POPPINS, Y’ALL

MIRI: Yes, he is cool!