#and that’s when we see bruce and selina’s relationship actually begin to develop on a more continuous level

[roobylavender]

selina was 19 when bruce was 26…? oh my god i never knew how old she was when she was first introduced so your tags shocked me😭

ok so i went back to volume one and it’s actually. a bit worse than i remember 😭

i did get it wrong that it was on the cusp of year one/year two, these events overlap with year one so bruce is 25. but based on the above panels it seems selina could have been anywhere from 16/17-19 😭

[bubblesxo]

Okay I just found out about your g!bruce meets the batfam AU and I LOVE IT SO MUCH - have only gone through the tumblr posts but I have the fic on my list to read. Wondering how you think of Jason's resurrection and Barbara's paralyzation working in a post-Gotham world? (Not specifically related to your AU sking you because you also seem really excited about these two worlds clashing!)

Because the way I see it, Hugo Strange was a well known factor and his resurrections don't appear to have any side effects. So why didn't Bruce try to get Jason resurrected, even if it meant working with an enemy?

Barbara's paralyzation pretty much happened exactly like Selina's did - so would Bruce not only be beating himself up, but also be able to approach Ivy for help? Or at least wouldn't Selina or Barbara Kean do it?

thank you so much!! i'm glad that you like the au even without all the material that goes around it! the au actually started out on tumblr in a few different textposts before i decided that i might as well just write it atp.

okay okay, jason's death and barbara's paralyzation.

jason first.

imo, if bruce ever comes face to face with hugo strange again, there won't even be words involved, that man is getting the beat down of his life. batman will MAKE IT so that that man stays in jail, if even only because he would be beat half to death again if he was let out.

hugo strange ordered the hit on bruce's parents, after all, and while bruce is opposed to murder, he is not, as we have seen, opposed to beating the stuffing out of someone repeatedly.

i also feel like that one girl who was introduced to the show really had more of an impact on bruce than is explored, because the show set them up almost like siblings. the girl, karen jennings i think? yeah, she was really close with thomas wayne before his death and he came to visit her often. he was involved in keeping her safe from the people at indian hollow (who moved there after pinewood was shut down).

karen suffered IMMENSELY under the hand of hugo strange, and during her short stay on the show, she and bruce got very close and developed what i personally see as an early sibling bond (and another example of bruce latching onto people and becoming emotionally involved way too quick, like, as a pattern).

anyway, hugo strange's mechanisms eventually end up getting karen brutally murdered right in front of bruce, so i feel like that could have a major effect on his mind, esp at that age and knowing what he does (or later did? my timeline there is fuzzy) about strange being involved in his parents' death.

because of his personal anger with him, deep-set mistrust of him (he likely heard about how he put a chip in ed's brain after penguin payed him to, essentially, revive him from the dead), and his respect for karen, he wouldn't ever get hugo involved, i believe.

as for barbara's paralyzation, i think that selina's side effects would play a huuuuge role here. in the show, when bruce gets the cure from ivy, she warns that it might have some side effects, and soon after, selina begins exhibiting animalistic and highly emotional traits, such as irrationality, extreme anger, low temper, excessive growling/hissing, etc.

it was during this time that bruce and selina's relationship was coming up on its time for both of them to decide what would happen next. after reunification, what would happen to both of them? would they still be a "they?"

even though both selina (deal with penguin) and bruce (helicopter, but also the interrupted dinner scene) want to leave gotham, either for good (selina) or for an extended period of time (bruce), neither of them are truly 100% involved in the discussion, which leads to communication issues, which is what eventually causes their breakup.

what i was more getting at bruce thinking here, however, i would say that bruce blames himself for getting her involved in the first place (as she literally did blame him, not that i can be mad at her), that she got shot because of him, and that he made the personal choice to force her to live on and feels responsible for taking the cure which gave her so many side effects (which she likes but he hates), bruce ultimately blames himself for their messy breakup and all of the pain that has caused.

which, of course, he hasn't processed at all, so instead he deflects it.

instead, he blames ivy and her weird eyeball-looking plant for taking away his best friend / girlfriend.

i definitely don't think that bruce would trust in ivy enough at this point in the timeline for her to be involved, but that i agree that (other than this) he (i fell asleep right here lol so im back now that it's morning) would totally do everything he possibly could to help barbara.

as for barbara kean---i'm going to be so real with you, i've been specifically not actually watching the series finale so i can stay on-track with bruce's line of thinking, so when i heard she got shot i honestly thought she died. i just checked last night and found out she got shot in the leg. so yeah, she's dead in this au. sorry guys 😭😭😭😭😭

i'm probably gonna go more in depth about this in the story, esp since i already thought she died LOL

so basically i'm giving babs extra childhood trauma (going the jim and bruce route with that), which honestly kinda fits because of the whole generational hero thing that jim and bruce kinda have going on (bruce's and jim's dads, jim passes it on to bruce, bruce passes it on to his kids, they both pass it on to babs).

more on that in the actual story LOL. i never really pictured barbara kean as working in the canon batfam universe anyway (just because penguin kinda has her niche). since in batfam canon it always seemed like she was at least primarily living with her dad, whereas barbara lee from gotham seems to be living primarily with her mom, and the only time i can see this changing is if something happened to her mom.

partially, i also think that babs herself had some sway in the whole not-going-to-ivy thing. barbara isn't a damsel in distress, and she likely wouldn't like bruce overstepping like that and just assuming that she wants to be cured just because selina did (not that she knew about selina being temporarily paralyzed, unless her dad told her). barbara doesn't see herself as any less of a person for her disabilty (which is good of course! though it took a little while for her to get used to everything and truly accept it) so she basically tells bruce to not get involved with any magic stuff for her.

the selina-barbara parallel is kinda crazy tho. i'm definitely gonna have to explore that in my fic (how bruce feels about it, selina, and babs of course).

bruce majorly spiraled after jason's death, so honestly i think that his mindset just wasn't in the best spot and that he wasn't doing okay mentally at all. honestly, he might have gone back to his old alcohol habits from his brucie phase (yes i know in gotham it's spelled brucey but i hate that) like some people headcanon.

basically, i don't really want to change any of the existing batfam canon as much as i can (like retconning barbara to have been cured, idk i just don't like that) and also i feel like bruce would never trust any of those people to be close to any of his loved ones haha.

thank you again so much for the ask!! hopefully this was intelligible, having been written on two different days. thank you so much for your support!! hopefully you like the story when you read it. feel free to send more asks anytime if you want!

[hotpinkstaples]

I’m not a BruceBabs shipper but people who get so scandalized by it or any other non-DickBabs ships are so annoying. And it’s usually Oracle fans who think the only people only like something else is because they are anti Babs. Babs used to be married to Bruce in the Superman universe and has even dated Clark Kent. They were literally only 3-4 years apart compared to Barbara and Dick who are 6-7 years apart and Barbara was literally older than Talia al Ghul at one point. DickBabs always is held to like this moral standard but honestly to me it’s like the writers settled for the the most boring and safest option which sucks because I wish that the one canonically disabled wheelchair user that DC has would have had a grand romance but yet… like it grates on me that when fans talk about reasons to like DickBabs it is because it’s a disabled woman in a relationship but like she would be a disabled woman in a relationship in whatever relationship she was in because she is a disabled woman. I don’t care for DickBabs and I honestly don’t even care for the age gap like let Babs have a younger guy and have fun, but the ship itself is just boring to me. Anybody else but that please.

i think the biggest mistake was to downgrade babs down to a dick’s contemporary when there were a hundred other ways (albeit none of them even slightly appropriate 😂) to get to the dickbabs agenda, but like, none of it was leveraged…. it’s always irked me, personally, bc there was nothing cookie cutter about their romance to begin with, and there were multiple layers of complexity that didn’t directly involve bruce getting between them, but i feel like in the current era, most of what made them dickbabs even remotely complex was straight up eliminated and or sterilized…. For what? for dick and barbara to be each other’s halal soulmate? forgive my language, but their relarionship’s entire conception was haram 😂 erasing and downplaying what made their relationship ‘theirs’ does nothing but diminish their personal histories and the fact that they each literally brought out the worst in each other at times.

and it’s not to say either are or were perfect. they are not. they are so fucked up i have to actually laugh bc they are both my mentally ill babus and i truly wish dc creative slt could SEE that they can be their best weirdo selves WITHOUT falling into the trap of reducing them to the kind of couple conservatives love to tout as “true love” when we know the only true love in dc comics is kon el and bart allen. also, break dickbabs up 5ever!

and ur absolutely right that babs deserves her fun! personally, i think brubabs is the answer to freeing selina kyle from all the straight woman allegations (i would like her to peacefully fuck other men abd women for at least ten years without hearing a single word about broose) and barbara from the dick-is-your-soulmate garbage. reality is that dickbabs has been as bust as dickkory for the last nine million years (as much as i love dickkory muah muah). one of my biggest critiques of dc comics writing is that motherfuckers cant commit to a character development point for their life. we were over both dickkory and dickbabs in 2010. not bc people didn’t enjoy their ships, but bc the writing staffs went out of their way to slander every single character. i recently saw a post that dickkory only looks good in elseworlds stories cuz the main comic runs fucked his ass UP. and i agree! the same should be applied to dickbabs, bc they lost their appeal eons ago as well. they want nightwing’s ass ate so damn bad, they need to get him a new girlfriend. a boyfriend, even! but leave babs and kory out of it 😭😭😭

Inshallah, hopefully dc creative SLT will understand the great fuckup they’re committing these days. if i cant get brubabs, i would like to see barbara go on a lil date with one of the many beautiful men and women in gotham. if she slept with selina, i would support it.

[ladyantiheroine]

Bruce, Selina and Growth

While I’m still rambling about The Batman (2022) and how fantastic the writing is, specifically with Bruce and Selina, I want to talk about how their relationship shows Bruce’s growth in the movie.

Bruce grows a lot in the movie. He starts out reliving the night his parents died by going out and beating up random criminals and inspiring fear in others. By the end, he’s realized that he needs to embody hope and refocuses his efforts on actually helping people (hence him saving people when Gotham floods).

But we also see this maturity and growth in his relationship with Selina. Early in the movie, he has this weird, slightly possessive edge towards her. He throws a spat every time he sees Selina with Falcone, even when she tells him she “doesn’t have a relationship with him.” He freaks out when he thinks he sees them together at the funeral before he even sees her face. He’s emotionally stunted at ten years old because of the trauma of losing his parents at that age, and that lack of maturity drives a lot of his decisions early in the movie, including some of his actions towards Selina.

When Selina tells Bruce that Falcone is her father, and he apologizes, it’s the moment he realizes how childish he’s been with her all this time. He realizes he’s been acting entitled towards Selina and feeling jealous over a romantic relationship that didn’t even exist!

I think it’s significant that a lot of their most romantic moments (the kiss, the motorcycles at the end, them rescuing each other at the election) don’t come until AFTER Bruce has this realization. Selina is clearly attracted to him from the beginning, but she can’t get too close to him until AFTER he gets over his bullshit. Even her repeated line, “I can take care of myself” feels like she’s challenging him.

That’s what makes the scene of him escorting her out of Gotham at the end so powerful and romantic. The Bruce Wayne earlier in the movie who threw a fit when he thought Selina was with someone else would have probably tried to make Selina stay in Gotham with him. But he doesn’t. He’s matured now, and he realizes he can’t possess her and has to let her make her own decisions. Even if it’s a decision neither of them is thrilled about. 

And so, he lets her go. Not because he doesn’t care about her, but because he loves her enough to set her free. 

I’ve seen so many romance narratives that frame jealousy as romantic or a “sign that they care so much” (which, I don’t have to explain why that’s wrong). So it is SO REFRESHING to have a love story where, yeah, the male lead IS kind of possessive and jealous, but the story frames it as a character flaw that he needs to overcome, rather than making excuses for it. Bruce’s relationship with Selina challenges him and forces him to reevaluate himself, and vice versa for Selina. This, in my humble opinion, is what makes a strong and effective love story: Both characters challenge each other and grow as people as a result of their influence on each other.

I just love this so much. It provides conflict and strengthens the romance plot between Bruce and Selina, while also strengthening Bruce’s overall arc in the movie. It shows how Selina is an important part of Batman’s journey into becoming the true hero Gotham needs. This, dear audience, is how you write a romantic subplot that feels organic and not forced.

In a way, you can argue that Bruce and Selina’s relationship is a microcosm of Batman’s whole story in this movie. This is a story of a man who is forced to realize his current mindset and way of doing things is only causing more harm, and he needs change. He’s still the same man, but he has a new perspective and outlook that makes him better equipped to protect those he cares about. At the end of the movie, Bruce prioritizes Selina’s wants over his, just as he does with Gotham.

Long story short, the writing in this movie is excellent and tightly written and their arcs are so well developed and intertwine with each other and the rest of the movie so well. Someone give Matt Reeves an award.

[perperam]

Do you have any Harlivy fic recommendations? Preferably something that is already completed?

OH I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ONE

okay okay so quick little tangent fact !! I actually just finished my undergrad degree in "english literature analysis & writing" and reading fics is so fun bc I get to analyze them and break them down and if it's particularly well written the stars align and it's just UGH so good. 

ratings are: E (explicit) M (mature) T (teens and up) and G (everyone) anyways here is a HUGE list of my favorite fics to date, their stats/details/plots, reasonings as to why they're on the list to begin with, and a short analysis:

SHORT STORIES (less than 30k words)

for your convenience they’re in order of length bc I’m focusing on this super hard rn

KISS YOUR BEST FRIEND CHALLENGE (T)  STATS — 340 words, shenanigans, fluff PLOT — Harley, TikTok and general Social Media queen, decides to do the trending challenge to kiss your best friend. The best friend? Her roommate and the woman she’s been crushing on for fucking ever: Poison Ivy.

AM I TOO CLOSE? (CAUSE YOU FOLD INTO ME LIKE A HEART WITH A BEAT) (G) STATS — 839 words, fluff, shenanigans PLOT — Harley genuinely wasn’t looking for trouble, but it’s hard to just have a day out when you’re one of Gotham’s most wanted. Running into Ivy, she takes drastic measures (and her hoodie into the mix) to distract the police from looking in their direction.

I’M HOME (G) STATS — 892 words, domestic fluff PLOT — After a long and rough day at work, Ivy comes home to Harley. Relaying the details of her day, she basks in the comfort of her girlfriend, who provides gentle questions and is a phenomenal listener. General cuteness.

CONFLICT DIAMONDS (G) STATS — 990 words, wedding shenanigans, banter, humor PLOT — Batman and Renee Montoya respond to a break-in at a jewelry store, except even though the owner is duct-taped to the wall, it isn’t really a break-in; Harley’s just trying to shop for a ring for Ivy, and that’s difficult to do when the owner is screaming in the corner. Batman and Renee both pitch in to help pick something nice for Harley’s girl, resulting in hilarious banter.

OF COURSE (T) STATS — 1.1k words, hurt/comfort (kinda), harley quinn animated tv show centric PLOT — In the aftermath of Ivy’s death, rebirth, and the fall of Joker Tower, Harley collapses onto the ground. Since she never mentioned that her parents are the reason for most of her injuries, Ivy isn’t sure why she’s so out of it.

PERFECT MORNINGS (T) STATS — 1.1k words, domestic fluff/bliss PLOT — Ivy, who usually wakes up early and before Harley, takes a moment to look at the countless muscles, ridges, scars, and tattoos on Harley’s body as she sleeps. General cuteness.

I’D LOVE TO CHECK YOU OUT (T) STATS — 1.7k words, university au, fluff PLOT — Harley visits the library virtually every day, and it’s definitely not because she needs to work on her university courses and homework. She finally works up the courage to speak to the alluring redhead she sees there every day while absentmindedly looking at a book on sharks. 

I’LL LOVE YOU IN THE MORNING (NOON, NIGHT) (T) STATS — 2.1k words, angst, hurt/comfort PLOT — A snapshot look into Ivy and how she comes to know, care, and love all the sides of Harley—from psychiatrist to criminal to girlfriend. She loves her throughout it all. 

DAY-DREAMING (T) STATS — 2.2k words, shenanigans, psychiatrist Harleen PLOT — Ivy’s falling for her psychiatrist—her humorous, intelligent, caring, and downright gorgeous psychiatrist. It’s difficult, to say the least.

WHAT HAPPENS IN THEMYSCIRA (DOESN’T) STAY IN THEMYSCIRA (T) STATS — 2.3k words, humor, wedding shenanigans, angst with a happy ending PLOT — In a surprise twist of events, Harley and Ivy were drunkenly married at Themyscira. When asked at the wedding if anybody had objections to the union of Ivy and Chuck, Wonder Woman and the Queen of Themyscira herself come to object. Ivy, for lack of a better word, wants to die a little.

NOT A ROCKER CHICK (T) STATS — 3.1k words, rock band au, fluff PLOT — The last thing Ivy wants to do is go to a rock band concert with her best friend, Selina. Despite her best efforts, she can’t help but completely fall into the rhythm of the band and their music, so different than her own norm. And okay, maybe the singer (who Selina was friends with and called “Harley”) was also kinda hot...

A TENDER HEART AMONG THE GREEN (T) STATS — 3.2k words, gotham city sirens raise Lucy au, domestic bliss PLOT — Harley and Selina come back home to the apartment to find Ivy passed out asleep with Lucy cuddling into the crook of her neck and Selina’s cats cuddling her legs. Knowing that Ivy would rather be caught dead than in such a compromising situation (after all, she is the Poison Ivy, who “hates humans”) the two take a photo, since it lasts longer. Shenanigans and cuteness ensue.

BUILDING YOUR GIRL’S SECOND STORY (M) STATS — 3.3k words, university/grad school au, angst with a happy ending PLOT — Snapshots of Harley’s battle with her violent and abusive boyfriend, Jack, and the way in which Bruce, his boyfriend Clark, and her best friend (and potentially lover) Pamela all love Harley and will do anything, anything, to make sure she gets the help, care, and love she needs.

A DIFFERENT KIND OF NORMAL (T) STATS — 3.6k words, coronavirus pandemic/quarantine au, family au PLOT — Ivy is requested by the Justice League to help create and manufacture a vaccine for the COVID-19 virus. As she works on the vaccine, she video calls Harley and their daughter Lucy, both of whom miss her very much. 

RABBIT IN THE GARDEN (T) STATS — 4.4k words, implied suicide attempt, hard angst PLOT — Winters are difficult to Ivy. When Harley comes home one day to see her submerged fully in water in the bathtub, the only thing Harley can do is cry and take her out. Ultimately Ivy is alright—but it doesn’t make it any easier.

WE WILL BE (EVERYTHING THAT WE’D EVER NEED) (T) STATS — 5.8k words, high school au, angst, hurt/comfort PLOT — Harley and Ivy are best friends from high school, living in the middle of Arizona. Ivy is absolutely head over heels for Harley, but the latter is in a growing and increasingly abusive relationship with the older “bad-boy” (literally) Jack. Eventually, the two grow together in more ways than one.  

WHERE THE RED FERN GROWS (EXCEPT NO DOGS DIE) (M) STATS — 9.7k words, domestic bliss, no powers just botanist & psychiatrist au PLOT — After her abusive ex-boyfriend tries to maniacally tear down the front door of her apartment with an ax as her best friend, Selina, pushes the table against the splintering wood, Bruce recommends that Harley gets a dog. She gets two German Shepard brothers—Bud and Lou—who lead her one day on their walk to the most beautiful flower shop owner Harley’s ever seen. The story of Harley and Ivy, told with Bud and Lou present to witness every moment.

THE MOMENT I AWAKEN GHOSTS (T) STATS — 11.7k words, falling in love, feelings & realizations PLOT — A deep look into Ivy’s feelings and how they evolve from general hatred against Harleen the psychiatrist at Arkham to a blooming, kind and gentle love towards Harley Quinn, the crown jester of crime. 

HARLEQUIN’S ISLE (T) STATS — 17.5k words, hurt/comfort, happy ending, shenanigans, humor PLOT — Harley and Ivy decide to go on a vacation on Bruce Wayne’s new eco-friendly plane, but in a surprise twist of events, things go terribly wrong, Ivy falls out of the plane, and the two (as well as all the other rich and wealthy big-name CEOS on the plane) get stranded on an island with someone actively trying to rob the investors. Harley and Ivy will fight them, god damn it, because they deserve this vacation and they will have it.

LONGER STORIES (30k words to 100k words)

YOUR LOVE (DÉJÀ VU) (G) STATS — 33k words, slow burn, mild angst, canon divergence PLOT — A what-if-Harley-found-Ivy-first fic, YOUR LOVE wonderfully illustrates Dr. Harleen Quinzel treating Ivy in a wonderfully humane and kind way, including learning floriography, the language of flowers, in order to better relate to her. Ivy is taken aback by her doctor's genuine care and begins to develop feelings, all the while Harleen falls hard and fast which wholly confuses and frightens her. The one caveat is that while this is happening, Harleen is also treating the Joker as well, who tries (keyword: tries) to manipulate her. Ivy and Harley dance a timid tango around one another as they try to navigate this new playing field of romantic feelings for one another, and things come to a breaking point when Harleen realizes that, perhaps, all of her patients have a point and that the real villains are not the ones inside the asylum, but rather the ones running it. FAVORITE DETAILS — I just love the way this is written. It provides a wonderful and almost skinny-love like romance (except this takes place in an insane asylum) as Harleen and Ivy both try to understand their strong feelings for one another. The way in which the rogues and other inmates/patients all look out for one another was very heartwarming, and Waylon and Eddie's thinly veiled camaraderie with Ivy—and her thinly veiled appreciation for it—were both lovely and created a really warm environment. It really underlined why Harley loved them because you love them too in the process, and see how she reaches her breaking point.  CHARACTER DEPICTIONS — Harley, as she is in all of my favorite fics, is depicted as an incredibly intelligent and talented psychiatrist. Her caring nature is wonderfully outlined in this fic as she helps Waylon, Eddie, Ivy, and everybody else in the asylum be treated with genuine respect and care, going as far as to get them personalized gifts. Her psyche fracturing slowly never once makes her seem unintelligent to the reader, even as she actively places a ditz persona in order to fool the rest of the asylum staff (and the Joker). Ivy, on the other hand, is illustrated in a way that perfectly shows how all she genuinely needed was someone to listen. She's sometimes harsh and crass but you can see how she begins to soften as Harley helps her and treats her with: you guessed it, genuine respect. FINAL VERDICT — I would get this tattooed on my ass if I could

NOVEL LENGTH WORKS (100k+ words)

ACROSS THE WAY (M) STATS — 128.7k words, slow-burn, tattoo artist & flower shop owner au  PLOT — Botanist and flower shop owner Pamela Isley moves to Gotham from Seattle in search of a new life. Her shop is located directly next to a tattoo shop—one that is incredibly loud and bothersome. Upon walking in to give the shop a piece of her mind, she meets one of the resident artsits, Harley Quinzel, and cannot get her out of her mind. The two become best friends, and feelings slowly start to develop. On a night when Harley is most vulnerable and in need of a place to escape, Pam offers her apartment as a refuge, and from that point on things are never the same again (in the best way possible).  FAVORITE DETAILS — The SIT sessions were a wonderful touch and I loved seeing the recovery of both Ivy and Harley, because it was so real. I also loved how once Harley got out, she did everything in her power to protect both herself and Ivy from Jack, and we got to see her and Ivy grow into their wonderful, healthy romance. CHARACTER DEPICTIONS — I love how all of the characters are illustrated; Selina, who is the caring best friend and genuinely does her best to help others around her all the while being her cocky, usual self. Pam, who escaped Seattle and started anew in Gotham and is the crass botanist and also the insanely kind and caring lover. Barbara is the adorable coffee shop owner, Floyd is the caring figure for Harley that she never had, and everyone is just wonderful.  FINAL VERDICT — literally go read this rn, what are you even doing

MAD LOVE: THE BEGINNING & MAD LOVE: THE FINAL CHAPTER (M) STATS — nearly 400k words total, angst, canon divergence, domestic fluff, slice of life PLOT — imagine YOUR LOVE except this is much longer, much more heart-wrenching, a whole lot more angsty, and Harleen's break with Harley is a lot more prevalent. Another what-if scenario of Dr. Harleen Quinzel meeting and treating the illusive Poison Ivy instead of the Joker, MAD LOVE shows an interesting depiction of the way they manipulate, hurt, care, and love one another. The entire story is riddled with well placed metaphors, recurring themes, and both Ivy and Harley's characters are illustrated in the most complex and interesting way. All throughout both the initial and the sequel, Ivy and Harleen play a metaphorical chess game in manipulation as a means to gain the upper-hand on the other, which creates a dangerous foundation for their following love story. In the sequel, "The Final Chapter," the story starts with Harley and Ivy—already married near the end of "A New Beginning"—having two kids and the entire piece spans over Harley's lifetime until she's on her deathbed, with Ivy still stuck at 33 years old beside her. I personally stopped reading the story after Harley died (I was too emotionally vulnerable to continue on) but if you continue reading on, you get to see Ivy move on and appreciate Harley's impact on her life as she finds love and happiness again after the loss of her wife. FAVORITE DETAILS — We get insight into both Ivy and Harleen's trauma, and how not everything can be fixed with love. Neither Harleen nor Ivy (or their actions for that matter) are characterized as perfect in any way, and the story never excuses any of their more-than-questionable actions; in fact they make MANY mistakes and manipulate one another throughout the story, and both have power over the other (Harleen is her psychiatrist, but Ivy could easily kill her, so emotional power over someone with immense physical power). CHARACTER DEPICTIONS — Harleen is depicted as an incredibly intelligent and capable psychiatrist, and the story somehow wonderfully mixes Harley's desire for violent chaos with Harleen's desire to help others. v Ivy is illustrated as the epitome of "I hate you and will not be nice unless you're literally either my wife or kids." She is seldom kind to others, is often crass, but an entire softy when it comes to Harleen and their children. She's a hard worker and is heavily involved in her research. Harleen, on the other hand, is equally cunning but more lighthearted, extremely athletic and active, the "fun" mom, and less into power trips (unless it's about Ivy). FINAL VERDICT — definitely the most interesting fics I've ever read in my entire fucking life, it's so complex and wonderful and a literal minefield of analysis worthy literature, I'd also get this tattooed on my ass if I could

[stxleslyds]

you know how dc keeps forcing this sudden "we're a family" narrative out of nowhere? I'd love batfam content but years of hurt among them make the recent content seem unearned.

bc you know more about dick and jason than the others, how do you think they would realistically become family to each other, or would it even be in character for them to be the "bros" they're written as now?

Oh anon, this question is amazing, I love it! I saw it when I woke up and since then my brain has been brewing this answer, I was thinking about it as I brushed my teeth and as I was making breakfast, and now I am ready to give you the answer, I hope you enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed thinking/writing about it!

DC keeps forcing the wrong relationships, and they keep forcing the wrong centre of this supposed family, they make it out to be the Bat-Family when in reality the Bat (Bruce) should have never been invited to this party.

This is why I give you the… Dick-Family!

Oh yeah baby, I am going there. Dick is the centre of this “family”, he is the guy who is actually connected with everyone, he has been around for so long and he has been present when almost all of the remaining characters were introduced! Bruce might have come first but that guy has nothing on Dick Grayson.

Dick has cared and loved for everyone in this family in a true and beautiful way, no matter how much fanon and DC try to tell us otherwise. This man was an amazing son to Bruce and Alfred (my love for Alfred and Dick is brought to you by @hood-ex), a fantastic brother to Jason, Tim and Cass as well as a phenomenal father/older brother to Damian.

Dick Grayson is the centre of this whole thing, and thanks to DC now being an Omniverse I will be able to explain my line of thoughts. But first let me clear some ideas up.

The way I see it Jason would only get along good enough with Dick. I am not here for Jason and Tim having brunch together (honestly, Lobdell, what were you thinking), Jason never cared for Tim, and then writers that didn’t know how the Red Hood worked made him try to kill Tim so, to me, that relationship is non-existent, Jason doesn’t really perceive Tim (yet).

Jason and Damian, listen, I know that there is this fanon theory that Jason knew and cared for Damian while he was in the League, but that is just fanon talk and it doesn’t really fit in canon either. Jason wasn’t really capable of doing much other than fight, and after he was put in the Lazarus Pit he either had to leave because Ra’s wanted to kill him or Talia took him to the All-Castle. So, Jason’s only real interactions with Damian would be when Jason was written as a crazy, blood thirsty dude that actually tried to harm a child. So, him and Damian wouldn’t really have a good relationship (yet).

Jason and Cass… that’s just a no. Jason and Barbara, I mean Barbara was older than Dick when she first met Jason, so they wouldn’t have much of a relationship.

Now, lets move on to how I will make the Dick-Family work.

Dick (bless him) actually talks and listens to people, unlike Bruce, so the change would start there. Let’s set the timeline, I will stand right after the events of Under the Red Hood. Bruce just chose saving Joker over letting Jason kill the Joker and the building they were in exploded.

Batman keeps on being himself (trash) and Jason, having survived the explosion, moves on to keep on building his empire. He really wants to control the drug trade in Gotham, so he works on that, he slowly but surely takes his place as a drug lord again and is a constant pain in Black Mask’s ass.

While Jason is doing that, Dick is trying to put together his life after Bludhaven was attacked with Chemo. Let’s say that Bludhaven isn’t completely erased from the map but he does have to leave so the city can be re-built. He goes to Gotham, where the Red Hood works.

Let’s say that Alfred told Dick who was under the Red Hood, so Dick being a good brother goes looking for Jason. Their first interaction out of the mask wouldn’t be nice, Jason barely remembers his life before the pit and he really is convinced that Dick is the absolute worst.

But then Jason being a nosy man would make an appearance, for some reason, let’s say that he hacks into the Batcave and when he does that he finds some footage… The footage in question would be the one which shows Bruce punching Dick and sort of blaming him for Jason’s death. (Oh yeah, I am going there). The footage will make a memory come to mind, Dick taking Jason on a skying trip.

So, the next time that Dick and Jason see each other is because Jason went looking for Dick and here is where these two actually talk. The way I see it, Dick is more flexible with the no killing rule, he has worked many times with people that are villains or that just have different ways of doing things. So, I think that he would understand where Jason’s coming from with his ideas. As they begin to understand one another Jason begins to recover more and more memories from before the Pit.

They get together once a week and they chat about life as well as vigilante stuff. They become friends.

At the same time Dick is also very good friends with Tim and also acts like the amazing big brother he is with him. They chat, they sometimes work together and one day they come across a very complicated situation involving a new drug being introduced in Gotham.

Dick would call Jason and now both of them and Tim are reunited in a safe house working together so this new drug doesn’t fall in the wrong hands. Jason and Tim wouldn’t really like each other. Both of them are there for Dick and because they have to get the job done.

That’s how I see Dick forming the Dick-Family unconsciously. Hell, I will introduce Barbara now. Do you guys remember that in UtRH Barbara was mad with Bruce and didn’t want to work with him but she was still in contact with Dick? Well, I am using that so it can fit my narrative.

Dick, Jason and Tim need more intel so Dick calls Oracle (real Oracle) and because Barbara trusts Dick she works with them.

Here is where it gets interesting, through Barbara, Dick meets Cass, through Tim he meets Stephanie. You see that Dick’s connections are leading him to form a group of people. Cass and Stephanie are trained by Babs and Dick and they become the new Batgirls.

As all of that keeps developing Jason and Dick become “partners in crime” they help each other, they start building a brotherly relationship again. Although Jason refuses to say that out loud.

Then comes in Damian, a difficult child if there has ever been one but he has Bruce so Dick doesn’t have to jump in that fast… right?

Oh brother! Bruce is dead (omg what would we do? Battle for the cowl maybe? No!). with Bruce gone there is only one person who can take his place and everyone knows it has to be Dick.

Dick would feel a lot of things as he is taking Bruce’s place as Batman but he has a group of people ready to back him up (Alfred, Jason, Tim, Babs, Cass, Steph), and he also has to take care of Damian, he is a child and with his father gone then maybe his mother would want to take him back to the League of Assassins, Dick obviously doesn’t want that so he talks to Tim and tells him that he sees him as his equal and that he has a plan to make Damian stay and it involves making Damian his new Robin.

Tim would obviously be sad and a little hurt, but he understands Dick’s decision because they talked about it and Dick actually took the time to explain why he was doing what he was doing (really DC half of the problems you guys come up could be fixed in seconds if people would only take some time to just TALK!).

Dick and Damian work as Batman and Robin and Dick starts assuming the position of his father. They would live with Alfred in the penthouse and maybe Tim will join them from time to time (when he wasn’t busy with Young Justice/Teen Titans stuff). Slowly Dick and Damian will become the Dynamic Duo that we love today.

So, Dick would have his own Robin, Oracle (who is also managing her own team with Black Canary and (why not) the Batgirls), Red Robin and Red Hood working with him if he needs them. They are always a call away. Jason is the most difficult to reach and he will only involve himself in that kind of drama if its about controlling the drug trade or scaring the living shit out of some very shady people.

So, Red Hood wouldn’t be working with the new (and improved) Batman but Jason would hang out with Dick sometimes.

From there they build up. Dick renovates Arkham Asylum and makes it work they way that it is supposed to work. He might also recruit Catwoman when he needs someone really sneaky, they have known each other for so long, I bet Selina loves Dick, she would certainly help him out.

But as all things do, this happy and well-connected Dick-Family is disrupted when Bruce comes back, he inserts himself slowly back into his role as Batman and as he does that Dick starts to move away from it.

But Dick’s connections are strong and well cared for, so, even when he goes back to Bludhaven and starts fresh (again) as Nightwing those connections remain. Oracle still gives him intel, Robin and Red Robin come over to Bludhaven to patrol, maybe they even have their own rooms at Dick’s place.

With Bludhaven functioning again, all of the terrible people that were working there also come back, maybe some of them never left and they have been corrupting the city from its very core. So, when Jason tells Dick that he would like to expand his operations to Bludhaven, Dick says yes, as long as Jason keeps him updated on his work and also lets him know what is going on.

I think it works! What do you guys think so far?

From then on with the whole Dick-Family being connected and strong I think they can actually act and solve their problems as a family. All those arcs that didn’t work very well because Bruce was in the middle of it being a jerk, I think they will work if Dick is at the centre of it. Let’s say that Bruce hid the fact that Joker knows their identities and all that, with such a strong family the second that the Joker tries to manipulate Jason into believing that he created him, Dick will come out of the shadows and shut that bullshit down. If Joker tries to do something to the Circus, then the Birds of Prey and the Robins will be there in seconds helping Dick.

The Court of Owls, those little shits wouldn’t stand a chance against this team, this force of nature! Jason would be the one working from afar because you know my boy wouldn’t be subjected to the “no-killing” rule but if he does it, he has to do it away from the children (Damian) and away from Cass, if he doesn’t want to know real trouble. (He probably arranged those things with Dick a long time ago and he is happy with it).

Now, please forgive me but for angst reasons I will actually let the events of, Batman Incorporated #8, Forever Evil, Nightwing #30 and Spyral run its course.

Let me explain, after Damian’s death Dick holds the Dick-Family together, as well as Bruce because he is amazing like that, but then after Dick supposedly dies, things change just a little bit. Jason would retreat back to his own corner because the only thing attaching him to the Dick-Family was Dick but he would also keep his eyes open and he might also have a direct line with Oracle if things go south.

Aside from Jason, I do see the others working on keeping their connections intact. When Damian eventually returns the land of the living, I can see all of them coming together even more because that’s what Dick would have wanted.

And then Dick will come back from Spyral and here is where the Dick-Family will show the “Bat-Family” why its superior to it in every aspect possible.

The Dick-Family will notice that something must have happened, Dick would never play dead and leave them like that, but Dick loves Bruce and he doesn’t want to tell them the truth, Bruce has no memories now and his family doesn’t deserve that kind of drama BUT Jason and Tim are suspicious, they know Dick at this point and they trust him so they firmly believe that he is hiding something to protect someone. And here is where life repeats itself. Let’s review the Batcave’s footage, yes, I did it again, I just love the fact that Bruce has footage of himself being the absolute worst to his kids, how does DC not use it! Anyway, Tim and Jason find the footage from the events of Nightwing #30 and suddenly the Dick-Family have their “Dick defence squad” jackets on and they are ready to party.

After all that Bruce eventually gets his memories back and he is held accountable for his actions. Also, around this time the events of Robin War would have already happened so Duke is also introduced. Dick lets him join and all that, and then Duke and Cass become besties and they work together.

And yeah, as Rebirth comes closer the Dick-Family would be more united than ever.

The end.

That is how I would have done it. But this way is slow, and DC wouldn’t be able to monetize it as much as they would want.

Jason wouldn’t be giving hugs and calling everyone their brother or sister, he will only get along with Dick and he would be professional with everyone else.

Tim and Damian would get along but they wouldn’t go for ice cream together on a sunny day. Steph and Damian would and so would Cass and Tim or Cass and Duke.

Oracle would work with Dick and the others as a side thing because her main thing would be the Birds of Prey, this time with Helena too.

Alfred would spend his time with Bruce but he would also be very aware of Dick and his influence on everyone around them. Bruce eventually would be integrated to the Dick-Family because Dick is a sweetheart but Dick would also make Bruce follow his rules, Dick is a little bean but he is also the most badass person in the room (whichever room) so you better listen to what he has to say.

The Dick-Family would be something that grows silently and doesn’t need a “Joker War” in order for them to be there for each other, they would try their best each step of the way and they will talk things out when mistakes are made.

This is the way that I see this family dynamic working.

I would even go as far as to say that Talia can be part of the Dick-Family because she is connected to three people, Dick, Damian and Jason.

Dick is the person with most connections in the DC Universe, the Titans, the Justice League, Deathstroke, they all have connections to this treasure of a man. If he needs help in Gotham or Bludhaven then he can call people from the “first circle”, if things are beyond a “street level” threat them he can call the Titans and if shit really hits the fan, Clark and the others are a call away.

Anyway, this was unnecessarily long, I am sorry about it but I am also not because I really don’t know how to answer your question without going on a long rant.

In conclusion the Bat-Family doesn’t work and sadly it wouldn’t work no matter how much they force it. These people don’t have connections, Bruce is not able to make connections between people. And DC has erased entire relationships that Dick used to have. I mean, they got rid of Dick and Tim being close brothers just so they could give us a shitty brunch between Tim and Jason? Only yesterday we saw a true and beautiful interaction between Dick and Damian.

DC is handling the “Bat-Family” in all the worst possible ways. It just doesn’t work.

They should have used Dick all those years ago and they shouldn’t have destroyed Jason’s characterization with Lobdell’s ideas.

So, sadly, my dear anon, I don’t see the Bat-Family as a in character thing for any of these people as they are written currently, but I hope that you enjoyed my version of it. May the Dick-Family bring everyone who reads about it a little joy!

[lils-in-space]

Notes on The Batman (2022) pt. 2

Here’s the link to part one, if you haven’t gone through it already :) 

(Sidenote: it’s been a while since I last posted on Tumblr so my notes organization is kinda messy. Please excuse the chaos)

Pt. 2 begins with the introduction of Selina Kyle in Bruce’s life and whewwww between Pattinson’s jawline and Kravitz’s cheekbones, I was a melting mess. 

When Bats shoves the Penguin against the glass to threaten him, the Penguin threatens him back, “Do you know my reputation?” Bats responds, “Yeah, I do. Do you?” Though the wording was a tad ambiguous, I think he meant “do you know mine?” Again, we’re back at it again with questions that Bruce Wayne really should be asking himself. Bruce, sweets, we really need to step up the introspection game. 

Selina’s apartment scene:

When we see Bats looking into Selina’s apartment with the binoculars, we flashback to an uncomfortable reminder of how the Riddler was looking into Mitchell’s apartment at the beginning of the film. This serves the purpose of blurring the line between hero and villain--can we justify violations into one’s privacy? Even for heroes? (namely, when Bruce watches Selina change into the jumpsuit). 

Bat meets Cat scene to tentative alliance at the 44 Below: 

I like how Kravitz really leans into cat-like mannerisms when she fights and interacts-- she huffs into Bats’ face in indignation, hissing when he covers her mouth and pulls her against him to prevent her from moving.  

We see some Marxism enter the room when Bats notes not only her name from the eviction notice, but also the fact that she probably doesn’t have much to go off of (this plays into a fight they get into later on in the movie). 

Social media returns with the video that the Riddler posts, announcing his claim on his murder of Commissioner Savage.

In this video, the Riddler says he wants to “unmask” the city. This wording will come back repeatedly. More to come on this significance. 

44 Below--apparently propane boils at (approx.) -44 degrees Fahrenheit. It turns into flammable steam. Kinda reminds of the “powder keg” comment that Gordon makes later when talking with Bats. It’s the vapor of depravity that will bring the city to its knees. 

“I can take care of myself” -- Selina repeats this on other occasions. This comes into play at the end. 

Red motif makes a comeback with Selina’s wig. What this means, still have yet to connect the clues. I feel like there’s more beyond the simple “red equals this emotion” but my sleep-deprived brain is slacking.

It also shows up when we see Selina’s perspective (through the contact lens) which is also red-tinted. Makes me wonder if this is what Bats sees every day or if this is just how it shows up on his screens. Red-tinted vision. Anger? 

Screw you Falcone. 

I wonder if this was intentional, but the lights on the bomb that the Riddler put around Gil’s neck looked like police sirens, which perhaps, was a good disguise for the car, and naturally, people would avoid it. 

Bruce, you’re such a loser sometimes, re-watching the footage of Selina saying “I don’t have a relationship with him.” You really need a better hobby. 

During this part though, we can see different parts of Bruce’s workshop--it looks like he’s working on developing part of the Bat-mobile. 

Alfred sounds almost happy? when he notices Bruce is dressed up in a suit and actually combed up. And then, Bruce just has to go and ruin it by saying he’s staking out Mitchell’s funeral as a civvie because serial killers like being at their victim’s funerals. What a loser, pt. 2

Alfred also notes the absence of Bruce’s Wayne cufflinks (”I can’t find them”--literally and metaphorically) and gives him his own, saying that he needs to keep up appearances. Thomas Wayne gave Alfred his, so in a sense, Alfred is passing the cufflinks along to Bruce, as if it’s his inheritance from his father. 

Honestly tho, Bruce, “How about you? Are you a Wayne?” What a dick thing to say to Alfred. Ask your reflection, yeesh. 

Funeral Scene

It seems rather natural for there to be civil unrest after political corruption is unearthed. Here, we see the economic gap between the protesters and those who are arriving at the funerals in their schmancy cars with valets to park their cars. We also see some police men patrolling on horses.. they’re literally on “high horses”.. sorry. bad pun. 

We also see how differently people treat Bruce vs. the Batman, which may because of Bruce’s status as a “rich person”. The policeman directs him to the valet area with a smile and recognizes him right off the bat.. I’m sorry (again) for the bad pun. Even criminals like Falcone and Oz treat him differently (aka, they don’t blast his brains out for a smart comment). Officer Martinez (he’s back!) treats him differently by greeting him with a smile. 

Nice detail of how Bruce is looking around at possible places the Riddler might be hiding around the building, and maybe scouting for exit points? 

Funeral guy that I mentioned in part one shows up with his line “What good is a safety net that doesn’t catch anyone?” and proceeds to share with Bruce how it failed his daughter. “Do I know you?”funeral guy asks, which again points to the identity question. Embarrassing for him, he doesn’t and Bruce Wayne just happens to be included among those “rich scum-suckers” that the man accused of ripping off his daughter. This guy comes back later, which I didn’t realize until my third watch-through. 

Mayor Elect Bella Reál addresses Bruce and says, ironically, “Mr. Wayne, you really could be doing more for this city.” Oh, sweet lady, if only you knew. He’s doing what he can, just not in the way that many would hope. This reminds us of the voice-over Bruce did at the beginning of the movie. “I wish I could say I’m making a difference.. but I don’t know.” 

Bomb to Jumping off a Building

Whoever played Gil actually had me feeling sorry for the guy. He’s rather realistic-- hysterically scared, willing to play along with a psychopath’s game for a chance to not die (even though, chances are he would’ve been murked anyhow), and stupid/wise enough not to spill in order to protect his family (again, with no guarantee that he and his family wouldn’t be killed by Falcone even if he didn’t spill the beans). 

The head puns in this scene were too much, I almost laughed at the deadpan delivery. “Not if you want to keep your head.” 

The video call with the Riddler reveals some things: (1) The Riddler says he is “nobody” but later on, we see he develops...almost an ego? and reacts negatively when Bats calls him a nobody in the cell scene. (2) “Unmask” makes another guest appearance. Further analysis on the word to come. (3) Social media commentary is back babyyyyy. Disturbing how there were so many likes on a serial killer’s video. Probably some of his 500 followers. (4) “No one ever gave me a chance.” This actually seemed like a genuine comment, showing how the Riddler is actually affected deep down by the traumas of his childhood.

I love, love, loveeee the fact that Bats actually got knocked out by the bomb. Again, this shows his vulnerability and maybe naivety in thinking Gil would rat out the rat. 

“Now I have you for assaulting an officer.” “You have me for assaulting three.” Bats, you’re really not helping, sweets. 

The small detail that Bruce actually hesitates before considering jumping off a building and that it takes him time to assemble the flying Bat suit is so human, I love it. This is amplified when he pulls the chute but miscalculates and ends up getting it caught in the railing and falling rather haphazardly onto the bus and then through a bunch of trash. He limps home. 

Part One // Part Three // Part Four (to be linked)

[jostenneil]

Hi, I saw the analyses of Talia and Bruce's relationship and (they were great to read) and also, I think you've mentioned O'Neil's idea to make Bruce a lone warrior before, but Bruce's slight personality shift the posts mentioned sounded like O'Neil's (I kind of compare it to the comics written by Bill Finger and the 1966 show) out of character justification for making Bruce a lone warrior and tbh that seems to be the same justification used in calling off Batman and Catwoman's wedding.

kind of, except that son of the demon (and by extension bride of the demon) was originally supposed to be followed by developments where bruce and ra's learned that damian was alive and tried to get to him before each other to influence his upbringing, so the overarching intent of the story wasn't actually to shape bruce into a lone warrior, it was at the time just meant to be a temporary separation. what ended up happening is that editorial plucked damian out of continuity, and barr was threatened not to use the concept of damian again else risk being fired (at least that's what he believed he would have been, according to one of his interviews, where he also mentioned he heard o'neil was pissed with son of the demon).

aside from that tho i think the reasoning for talia and selina rejecting or leaving bruce is a bit different. to me, talia rejects bruce bc he shuns his responsibility to the world, and that's not the right thing to do. yes, it ultimately does leave him as a "lone warrior", esp when damian is ripped out of continuity, but i don't think talia's intent was to render him a lone warrior, or to encourage his misery. we've seen her in plenty of comics prior express a desire to periodically value rest and comfort away from the trials and tribulations of the world, bc all-consuming neuroticism about needing to save the world can be unhealthy. that's one extreme. i think talia turns him away bc this child pushes him to another extreme, wherein all-consuming neuroticism about protecting his family leads him to abandon the need to save the world at all. talia doesn't need bruce to be someone so entrenched in misery he never looks up to smell the flowers; but just bc you can smell the flowers doesn't mean you should abandon all else either. the world is still impt, people still matter, and when we have power, we have obligations. altho operating off of a different set of circumstances, i think talia and bruce's conversation at the start of no man's land is also emblematic of that philosophy. she's willing to understand his misery due to recent events bc she knows that even before he's batman, he's just a human being. he's just bruce wayne. but she's also not going to let him use that misery as an excuse to give up on justice and the world, and i think she's ultimately right for that

the problem with the way king writes selina leaving bruce (and i think plenty of batcat fans would agree) is that her reasoning in-story is he can't be batman without the hurt and misery. that if he's allowed to be happy and if she's allowed to help him with the loneliness, he will somehow stop being batman. on a surface level it's a similar premise to sotd's, but where i think it falters is in the idea that misery is necessary to make bruce a hero. what makes bruce a hero is his compassion. he wants to prevent others from meeting the same fate as his parents bc he knows so many people don't deserve it, and bc he knows what it's like to be the one left behind. king's writing of that issue, to me, accounts for none of that. it's a bunch of flowery, ultimately meaningless prose that exposes the problem with the way he wrote bruce and selina's relationship to begin with: he viewed the core of their individual philosophies as a problem, and posited that their relationship with each other would solve that problem. there's a tweet of someone comparing king's execution to alan grant's execution in a trio of batcat issues the latter wrote back in the early 90s that sums it up well: "the irony is [bruce and selina] were perfect to each other in a way that the reader could see, but they would never touch the subject bc to do so would compromise their core - bat's devotion to justice and cat's lust for freedom. to assume either bruce or selina wouldn't know themselves and each other that well is insulting to every other writer to tackle the property." bruce and selina never needed to compromise their cores to have a rapport with each other or to be able to explore a relationship with each other (at least imo, they didn't). nor are their cores solely problematic. does bruce fall into bad habits bc of his duty to justice? sure. does selina sometimes do bad things in her quest for freedom? sure. but that doesn't mean bruce's desire for justice or selina's desire for freedom is all bad, and that good things can't come of either. there's plenty of comics that can prove that wrong (including those alan grant issues: batman #640-1, detective comics #612), and there are good things that come of those desires, too, most obviously their shared ability to save people. that, to me, is what king failed to account for in writing them (and i think it exposes the problem with king's writing at large; he just doesn't respect the mythos or genre he's writing within).

[highly-opinionated-ramblings]

Batshipping masterpost

Sometimes asking yourself the question “what would it take for me to ship these two characters together?” helps you come up with really really good stories that you otherwise might never have thought of! 

Very fun writing exercise. Do recommend.

ANYWAY. I like Batman, so I asked myself this question about him, and these were the results! 

(Featuring: Catwoman, Riddler, Twoface, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, Azrael, Mr. Freeze, Clayface, Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Flash, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, and Aquaman)

What would it take for me to ship Batman with that character? A few key ingredients: 

If they are/were a villain, a redemption of sorts. A slow process of coming to terms and actively deciding “yeah, that’s not who I am anymore.” 

A connection, a distinct moment where they’re able to talk to Batman as more than just an old enemy or a League ally. A spark that generates interest in developing the relationship further.

An establishment of explicit trust. This usually comes in the form of Bruce revealing his identity to the other and trusting them (maybe tentatively at first, but even so) not to give it away.

An introduction to the kids. I am one hundred percent positive that this is, for the vast majority, not a voluntary action on Batman’s part. But if you raise nine kids to be detectives, you can’t expect to keep secrets from them for long! And once they know you’ve been sleeping with that former villain, you’re going to have to justify that to them somehow.

Then the whole cycle starts again as the villain redeems themselves in the eyes of the kids and gains their trust and acceptance too. Good stuff.

Note: my interpretations of these characters are entirely my own and by no means do all of them line up with any sort of canon. I just sort of do whatever. 

Also: some of the bullet points below address some of the mental health problems in the villains, so proceed at your own discretion.

Catwoman: I really like the Gotham tv show’s dynamic between Bruce and Selina, which is to say, they were childhood friends with an early attraction to one another, but had a falling out sometime around the very beginnings of Bruce actually becoming Batman. She spends a few years as a professional thief. He sends her to prison a few times. But eventually she settles down and opens up a casino or whatever, where she deals information under the table. Alfred and the kids know her these days as an ally rather than enemy. So it’s just a matter of her realizing that her attraction to Bruce is deeper than originally assumed, and that if she wants to be with him she has to really dedicate herself to that idea, and for him to realize that she’s being serious and that he needs to prioritize spending time with her over obsessing over his work.

Bruce takes his mask off dramatically, saying something along the lines of “it’s me, Selina” and she’s like “yeah I know.” “What?” “You do this thing where you pace back and forth and nod your head up and down when you’re thinking. Never known anyone else who did that but Bruce Wayne.” “...Oh.”

Childhood friends interpretation is also great because Alfred already knows her and likes her. And she has all these embarrassing stories about 14 year old Bruce to share, which means that even the most resistant of the kids warm up to her right away.

Riddler: the first line in his Arkham file is that he has an obsessive need for attention. And Bruce KNOWS that. But it takes years for it to occur to him, incredibly sleep-deprived and staring down one of Ed’s death traps that he really, really doesn’t want to deal with today....what would happen if he just, y’know, gives it to him? The attention that he wants? And the results are instantaneous. It’s like the floodgates are open and Ed just can’t stop talking. It starts out snide and derogatory, the same way he usually talks to Batman, but the longer it goes on the more it deteriorates into something oddly helpless and vulnerable. Bruce has been so used to cocky, swaggering Ed that it never really occurred to him that this was someone suffering, who needed help. So he sits down and does his best to convince Ed that he’s not going to take him in (how many times has he been sent to Arkham? And what good has it done him, really?) and they talk. He leaves out of necessity (bank robbery in progress, says Barbara’s voice in his ear) but he goes back the next day, and again after that. Ed gets attention from Bruce without having to resort to crime to get it. Bruce gets a break from head busting and an outlet for some of the stale energy inside his head. They tell each other riddles and play strategy games and get to know each other, for real this time.

Ed stops worrying so much about proving that he’s smarter than Batman. Instead he channels all that energy into uncovering Bruce’s secret identity. It’s just another one of their games. Bruce has kept that secret for a long time and he’s confident he can keep it up, but Ed’s always alert waiting for him to slip up, to leave a clue

Option 1 for how he finds out: he sets up an elaborate trap, making it seem like he’s in danger and the only way to save him is for Bruce to take his mask off, so he does. Ed is outraged. “REALLY? BRUCE WAYNE? FUCKING REALLY?” he yells, dropping all pretense of being in danger. The robots he made for this setup drop like puppets with cut strings. Bruce gets ready to Fight.

Option 2: Some other villain reveals Bruce’s identity before he gets the chance (Arkhamverse style). Ed is outraged. “HOW DARE YOU LET ANYONE ELSE BUT ME DO THAT” he yells while Bruce tries his best to ignore him and focus on calling the JL to fix the whole situation somehow

Option 3: Bruce just tells him. Ed is outraged. “I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE ONE TO FIGURE IT OUT YOU IDIOT”

The kids are Not Happy about Bruce dating Gotham’s Most Annoying Super Villain

Twoface: again I gotta go with the whole ‘they were friends when they were younger and Bruce had a raging crush on him’ setup. Cause that adds a whole layer to Bruce’s part of the story, watching Harvey become Twoface and assuming responsibility for locking him up every time he gets out. One day something happens in Gotham- string of murders or something, it’s not important really what it is. Bruce goes after the person responsible and his trail leads him to Harvey. So he busts into the safe house, intending to intimidate anything Harvey knows out of him, and then throw him back in Blackgate. “Ohohoho, noooooo, you got this all wrong,” Harvey says when he figures out what Batman’s getting at. “That motherfucker put a dozen of my men in the ground. This is personal. You want me to tell you what I know, you’re going to take me with you.” And Bruce agrees. Cause he knows Harvey’s got a certain moral code that he can be trusted to stick to, and it’s the most painless way of getting what he wants from him anyway. Working with Harvey is weird, though. He shoots a couple of goons going after Batman and gives him that lopsided smile, says “I’ve got your back,” and suddenly Bruce is like 20 again and Harvey is bringing him a coffee, smiling. During their chase they have a dramatic rooftop showdown with whoever it is they’re chasing. Bruce turns around just in time to see one of the thugs push Twoface over the edge. He gets caught up in the moment and practically screams, “Harvey!” Of course, he’s able to dramatically swoop in and save him, though it’s a pretty close call. When Harvey comes to he sits up and says quietly, “It’s been a long time since anyone’s called my name like that, did we have that kind of relationship?” and Bruce panics and tries to brush it off as his imagination, but Harvey shakes his head and says “once you’ve seen it, you can’t unsee it, man. It’s you under there, isn’t it, Bruce?” And it turns out that knowing Bruce’s real identity turned out to be exactly what Harvey needed. Cause he can identify some of the duality he feels about himself in Batman, now. They spend some more time together, talking some of that out, and it doesn’t take long for Bruce’s crush to return en force.

Poison Ivy: He lets her go. He knew she was at that scene, and she knows he saw her, but he lets her go, cause it wasn’t a big deal. No one died, relatively little property damage, and that jerk deserved it anyway. The next day there’s a potted plant sitting on GCPD’s doorstep and they call Batman thinking it might be dangerous, but it’s just a lovely specimen of a rare flower, which he knows is her way of saying thanks. (He doesn’t let the police know that, though. He just puts it in the back of the Batmobile and tells them it’s nothing he can’t handle). He takes it home with him and treats it well. And she knows it, can kind of sense it, distantly. They have a few more run ins over the course of the next few months and they take it easy on each other, having this sort of mutually unspoken agreement. Eventually something happens for her to need to talk to Batman, so she digs her roots in deep and finds that flower...in the garden at Wayne Manor. She leaves a message for Batman and they meet up and talk about whatever she needed. She doesn’t mention the Manor, so he asks about it. She just shrugs and mentions something about Bruce Wayne’s recent efforts in protecting the environment. “Maybe we’re not as different as I thought, after all.” They give each other more little presents from afar. One day she sees him hanging around (where she knows he knows she can see him), and drops by to talk. He offers her a ride home and ends up spending the night.

This one I think he owns up to before the kids can figure it out. Pam’s a good source of information, and if he was desperate he’d call her even with all of them watching. They’d all think he’d been bewitched, of course. It’d take a while to convince them all otherwise.

Harley Quinn: all it takes is for him to get his first glimpse of the real her and decide that Joker victims need to stick together and help other Joker victims. After the breakup and the subsequent recovery, she’s living free (albeit under Constant Surveillance) in Gotham, and he checks in every once in a while, just to make sure she’s doing ok and not reverting to her previous, Joker-driven, rocket-fueled bad habits. One day there’s an incident in her neighborhood- maybe someone was going after her and Bruce was there protecting her, or maybe it wasn’t related to her at all. Regardless, it’s her who finds him after the explosion and takes him home and gives him first aid. He’s groggy and panicky when he first wakes up in a strange place (not a hospital, not the cave) with an IV drip in his arm (he’s not in a hospital, where did that come from!). It gets worse when he realizes that his mask was blown right off his face in the blast. It gets SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE when Harley appears in his field of vision, waving around a tablet pulled up to Bruce Wayne’s wikipedia page, in full psychologist mode, ranting about how he’s been going about dealing with his childhood trauma All Wrong. But they talk, and she promises not to give his secret away. “What would I have to gain from that? You’d stop coming to visit me then!” It takes a while for the two of them to figure out exactly what’s going on between them but once they’re both sure the others’ intentions are good, they develop a good, strong relationship.

Bonus points if, at any point in the above time space, she walks up to him one day and hands him an unmarked usb drive. “What’s on this?” “My daughter.” “What.” “My daughter! Her location and everything about her.” “Is she...Joker’s?” “I dunno. Could have been him or any one of a number of other guys. Mistah J threw some really wild parties. *shrug* The only part that really matters to me is that she’s mine. And if anything ever happens to me, she’ll need someone to look out for her, y’know?” “And that’s me???” “Well, helping people in need is one of your compulsions, after all. Especially kids, or else you wouldn’t have so many of your own.” 

I usually imagine Jason as one of the ones kind of sticking up for Batman, citing how crime has all but disappeared since he started sleeping with whatever particular villain and that who are they to police who Bruce shares his bed with anyway (BONUS bonus points if he’s just entering the early stages of coming to terms with his own bisexuality and never realized that Bruce was bi, too), but that wouldn’t be the case with Harley. He’d feel pretty hurt about that, I think. On the other hand: Dick has been around since Harley’s debut on the scene, and has always thought of her as relatively harmless and even respected her to a degree, as a fellow acrobat, so he’s cool with her dating Bruce

Azrael: His JL team goes on hiatus for a little while, so he calls Bruce up like “uhhh, I don’t really have much of anywhere else to go, so can I come back to Gotham for a while?” And Bruce tells him that they’re actually experiencing a pretty calm stretch for a change, but yeah, he can come if he wants. At first he’s excited because he’s never been invited to the actual, og Batcave, but there really IS nothing going on. He meets Alfred, who offers him tea. He meets Steph and Tim, out of masks, lounging on the couch playing Street Fighter. They assure him that if literally anything happens, one of their gajillion alert systems will let them know. He goes off in search of Bruce, finds him sitting at the kitchen table making his way through a veritable mountain of paperwork. Eventually he admits that he doesn’t really know what to do with himself in the downtime. “I usually try to use time like this to do things for Bruce Wayne, instead of for Batman,” Bruce explains. “You should do something for Michael Lane, while you have the chance.” “But...but...but I’ve been Azrael full-time for years now...” “Alright, well, what did you like to do before you were Azrael?” “UHH...” Before he can short-circuit too much trying to come up with an actual answer to that question, Bruce puts aside his paperwork and takes his arm. They get in the car and Bruce takes him to like a hobby shop or something. They buy model kits and a cookbook and some yarn (”one of the kids can teach you”), and he promises that one of these days they’ll clear some space on the lawn to play football. Michael hasn’t experienced this level of anyone caring for his well-being probably ever? and all he can do is stammer something about “is there anything I can do for Bruce Wayne in return?” “You can keep me company while I file all my paperwork, I guess.” So he sits at the table across from Bruce and builds his little ATAT model kit feeling happier than he has in a long time. Bruce can tell that a little more attention would do him good, so they spend some more time hanging out which leads to having some deep conversations and building up feelings for each other, it’s all very cute

Right at the beginning of Michael developing his crush on Bruce he realizes that something’s different, but doesn’t quite realize what it is, and his mind jumps to the worst case scenario right away. He locks himself in his room, calls Bruce at work, panicking, and says he thinks his St. Dumas brainwashed obsession with Bruce might be coming back. Bruce tells him to calm down, they’ll run some tests. All the tests come back negative, but Michael is visibly shaken, so Bruce offers for him to hang around Gotham a little longer so they can monitor him, which is what leads to his extended stay in Gotham

Mr. Freeze: One day something changes. One day the realization finally, finally clicks into place. There’s a huge floating JL base in the sky and aliens living on Earth and people coming back from the dead and healing from miraculous injuries and plagues all the time. If it was going to happen to him, it would have happened by now. It’s over. Nora’s not coming back. That day he laces up his boots and loads his gun and walks over to the little diner on the corner and wrecks it. Batman gets the call, and obviously he knows that something’s different, this isn’t Vic’s MO, but he goes anyway, of course. Vic blasts away at him with his freeze gun, wildly, recklessly, screaming and ranting the whole time. Bruce dodges out of view, and Vic transfers his aggressions to the nearest object in sight: a table. He blasts that thing in half, and then in half again, and keeps going until it’s nothing but splinters and he’s just standing there, gasping for breath. “Victor,” says Bruce from behind him, “tell me what’s wrong.” “Nora’s dead,” Vic mumbles under his breath. Bruce comes around to face him and Vic is looking at him with THE SADDEST puppy dog eyes he’s ever seen. (I know what you’re thinking right now. “Mr. Freeze can’t do puppy dog eyes.” You’re WRONG, I’m telling you) “That’s the first time I’ve ever said that out loud, I think... I d-don’t...I don’t know what to do…” and Bruce is like, darn, I can’t take this fool to jail. So he brings him back to his chilly lair instead and sits him down and talks him through it a little. Leaves him with a phone number to call if it gets real bad again, but makes the first call to check up on him later anyway. This one is a sloooow burn, it takes Vic MONTHS to get over Nora, couple weeks to realize he MIGHT? be developing feelings for Bruce, couple more weeks to wrestle with the guilt of that. Learning Bruce’s identity is the thing that really brings all of it to a head. Maybe there’s an attempt on Bruce Wayne’s life and later that day Batman shows up with the same pattern of lacerations on his cheek, or broken leg, or whatever. Vic’s not an idiot. He can put two and two together. When Bruce finally takes off the helmet in front of him, it’s a huge relief. To be able to say “I know what it’s like to lose people” and for Vic to know he’s not just talking about heroing. They get closer and closer from there. Their relationship is a weird one, with a lot of compromises to make, but they do the best they can.

The kids don’t particularly mind Bruce going out with Vic. He’s not so much a villain as he is just a guy who’s been dealt a bad hand in life and done the best he could with it. But having around makes the already-cool cave soooo much colder, which isn’t so fun.

Clayface: There hasn’t been an incident with Clayface in years. He’s older, little calmer, little more mature (I like the New 52 plotline of him joining Kate’s crime busting team, but this little scenario works even without that part thrown in). Still, when Bruce hears he’s back in town, he figures he should probably pay him a visit anyway. Just in case he’s planning something. But he goes to the address he was given, some apartment building in Kingston, opens the door, and finds Basil. Not Clayface, Basil Karlo, sitting in a chair by the window reading a paper. “Haven’t seen that face on you in a while,” he says, still unsure if it’s a trick or not. “Oh,” Basil shrugs, unsure if he should be worried about being tossed in jail again or not. “Well, it’s my face. The one I’m most familiar with, takes the least amount of concentration to keep up with. I did make some changes, though, see? Few gray hairs, few lines on my face. Do I look older?” “Yes. It’s a good look.” He keeps checking in with him, cause you can never be too careful, and then because he actually starts to enjoy Basil’s company. Their relationship is one of the more light-hearted ones on this list. They get wine drunk and make out on the roof of the apartment building, very giggly.

“If I learned anything at Arkham, it’s that there are some things that you know are wrong with you, but there are also things that are wrong with you that you aren’t even aware of, and that you couldn’t identify or fix even if you tried.” “One of the psychologists told you that?” “No. I shared a cell with Tetch for a few weeks. That dude is so much more messed up than you realize.”

Superman: Clark calls him up saying something about a mystery in Metropolis that has everyone stumped, and maybe the World’s Greatest Detective wouldn’t mind helping him out? So Bruce drops by to lend him a hand. The ‘mystery’ turns out to be a group of unfamiliar aliens who’re out to get Superman (I don’t care why. Maybe they’re holding some kind of grudge, maybe they’re bounty hunters, maybe they want to sell him off into space-gladiator slavery, whatever). These antagonistic aliens have been very careful in their preparations- they’ve done all the math, and come up with special weapons specifically designed to hit Superman hard enough to knock him out. But they didn’t plan on Batman being there with him, which throws them off just enough that Superman is able to chase them off successfully. In the midst of that fight, though, Bruce takes a hit. A hit calculated for Superman. It breaks several of his ribs and punctures a lung. Clark panics, scoops him up and flies him to the nearest hospital at record speeds. They’re able to stabilize him at Metropolis, and then they send him back to the Watchtower for further treatment. When he wakes up he’s pretty disoriented and confused, but Clark (who had been listening for a change in his breathing and heartbeat from a couple rooms away) comes rushing in, ushering him back to bed and promising to explain everything. Bruce is woozy and wonky enough from whatever drugs they gave him that he lays back down and lets Clark hold his hand protectively without argument. He listens to Clark’s explanation, mumbles something about calling Alfred, and promptly falls back asleep. Clark feels so guilty about his injury that he won’t leave his side for weeks, even following him back to Gotham once he’s well enough to leave the Watchtower.

“God, when will they finally just kiss already,” Jason says, taking cover with the rest of the family in the cave. “I know, right,” says Steph while Tim, Cass, and Duke (and Alfred) all nod in agreement. “SHUT UP,” yells Damian, having a hard time adapting to the idea of his dad and his best friend’s dad getting together

Any Superbat is good Superbat but I enjoy it best in the context of ‘they’re old enough by now to be embarrassed about how angsty and competitive they were when they first met, and they both have huge extended families, and the rest of the JL has been watching them dance around each other for YEARS, JUST KISS ALREADY DAMMIT’

Wonder Woman: I don’t usually imagine Bruce as a flustered kind of guy, but Wonder Woman is everything he wants to be when he grows up and he can’t help it. She’s so effortlessly cool, calm, and collected. And she’s a natural charmer, the public loves her. She always manages to come at things with a fresh perspective that has helped unstick his too-logical train of thought numerous times. She paid him a compliment once and he sat in the batmobile in the parking lot thinking about it for like twenty minutes. One day they get assigned to a League PR thing together that turns into an assassination attempt (surprising no one), but everything turns out ok. Minor damage to the surrounding buildings, a few people injured in the mass chaos, that’s all. She goes looking for him after returning from talking to the local cops, and finds him with a toddler girl on his hip, holding hands with her six yo sister, helping them look for their parents. And she just has to stop and marvel for a minute at how soft his voice is??? How the toddler isn’t even crying??? He bends down to hug the little girl bye after returning her to her fam and Diana almost has a heart attack. “I see that the gods have blessed you with an affinity for children of all ages,” she says. By the time he straightens back up he’s Batman again. “What do you mean by that?” “I can never get kids to warm up to me like that in situations like these...I always thought it was because I was just too big and imposing. How did you do it?” “Oh. Well. You know. *gestures vaguely* You just gotta give them what they want.” “And what is that?” “Security. A promise of safety from an adult that they can trust.” She doesn’t quite get it but she watches him, and talks to his sidekicks sometimes. It amazes her how much kindness and love are hidden under that mask of his. When he smiles from the heart he could melt glaciers. So she starts to press, just a little, just to see how he’ll respond. And once she figures out exactly how flustered he can get, too, it’s all downhill from there.

Martian Manhunter: This one is literally one of the sweetest, most pure relationship dynamics I think I’ve ever written, which really caught me by surprise! The way I think of it is like this: When they first meet, Bruce is really, really uncomfortable with the idea of having J’onn in his head, so J’onn tries to keep telecommunication with him to a minimum. So when Bruce gets his attention during like a meeting or something and subtly lets him know he needs to talk, J’onn knows it must be important. So he opens up a private channel and helps Bruce deal with whatever it is (I don’t know exactly what that would be, only that it’d be some kind of sensitive topic best kept between the two of them). And over the course of that, all those one-on-one mind convos, Bruce starts to get used to talking like that with J’onn. In return, while they’re working together, he helps J’onn get used to human physical contact. It starts with small things- handshakes, little pats on the shoulder- until J’onn is comfortable returning them. One day J’onn has a bad day and it’s Bruce that comes to find him, to comfort him. He doesn’t really say anything, just puts his arms around J’onn and holds him close. Most humans- and hell, even most Martians- wouldn’t have done that for him. What else was J’onn supposed to do but fall in love with him?

I really liked the scene in JL8 where J’onn was trying to, like, share a memory with Bruce or something, and instead he ended up unintentionally stumbling into some of Bruce’s trauma memories, which freaked both of them out pretty badly. I think that little scene would fit quite nicely into this scenario. Bonus, if it happens in the really early days of the League, it doubles as the moment when J’onn first learns Bruce’s secret identity.

Flash: It’s been a longtime headcanon of mine that Barry is very active in the Central City community, not just as Flash, but as himself, too. Namely, he spends a good deal of his free time volunteering with the local homeless shelter slash food bank. I mean, come on, just by the very nature of his powers, is it any surprise that he has a vested interest in ending hunger in his community? One day he stops Bruce in the hall in the Watchtower, and clumsily explains that he needs to ask a favor. The shelter has been looking to expand their operations for some time, but right at the last second one of their backers pulled out. They’re short 7k for the payment on the property they needed to make tomorrow, and Barry didn’t know where else to turn to get that much money that quickly. He promises to pay him back, somehow, eventually. Bruce cuts him a check right there for 10k, and tells him to consider it a gift. Later he even publicly endorses the program on social media, saying he thinks Gotham should implement something similar. Barry invites him down to see the building he paid for, so Bruce rolls up his sleeves and spends the day volunteering with him. It’s a chance for both of them to see a side of the other that they’ve never seen before. Bruce watches Barry shine like a ray of sunshine, bringing light and laughter to a room full of people at their very lowest. Barry watches Bruce inspire trust and confidence in complete strangers, like magic. Not to mention, that smile- Barry tries not to use his powers out in the open if he can avoid it, but he discreetly flashes over to stop a tray or something from falling, and of course it doesn’t escape Bruce’s notice. He grins at Barry from across the room and Barry’s heart fully stops for a second.

I like to think of Bruce as a little older than Barry. Just a little, just a few years. Just enough that Barry always feels like an inexperienced, incompetent baby in the face of The Batman

This one throws the kids for such a loop once they find out about it. “THIS is what you’re attracted to, Bruce? THIS???”

Green Lantern: what I know about Hal is that he’s sassy. And what I know about Bruce is that if anyone he doesn’t have the ability to tell to go to their room is sassy with him, he gets snippy. So he and Hal butt heads a lot. One day Hal is venting to Superman in like, an elevator or something about how Bruce just Doesn’t Get It, Clark, He Doesn’t Understand Me, and Clark says, “well, Hal, can you honestly say that you understand him, either?” And suggests that maybe he should spend some more time actually getting to know Bruce before passing judgement. Hal takes that to mean ‘maybe I should go to Gotham and spy on Batman for a day’. When he spots him doing his best to hide inconspicuously on a nearby rooftop, Bruce rolls his eyes and ignores him. Dick spots him too, though, and invites him to the cave in hopes that maybe they’ll be able to settle whatever their argument was about (Jason, Tim, and Steph break out the popcorn and get themselves front row seats for the Drama). But in the end, an up-close perspective was exactly what Hal needed to realize that there was more to Batman than had been meeting his eye. He watches Bruce juggle ten different comm feeds while giving a press conference AND directing his kids’ efforts in the field at the same time, and he earns a new respect for Bruce. He gets where he’s coming from now, and why he’s always so cautious all the time. The guy has a lot to lose. So he mans up and apologizes. Bruce accepts the apology graciously, says he realizes that they’re fundamentally different people but that he values Hal as a comrade and respects his prowess with the ring, and Hal is like, ��ah. We Are Friends Now.’ He spends more of his time on Earth with Bruce, and along the way he trips and falls headlong into a debilitating crush on him. Like, a visibly obvious crush. Bruce finds it adorable.

Green Arrow: Bruce and Ollie get invited to the same billionaire shindig one day and neither of them can think of a good enough reason to not go. Ollie’s recovering from a bad ankle sprain, and Bruce hasn’t slept in days, so instead of socializing with anyone else there they just sit in the corner and hang out with each other. Midway through the event Bruce closes his eyes and does this forceful little sigh through his nose. Ollie knows him well enough by now to know that small outward signs indicate big amounts of internal emotions with Bruce, and this is about as frustrated as he’s ever seen him out of mask. Normally his act is impenetrable. “What,” he asks, imagination running full speed ahead thinking about what might have happened, “what’s wrong?” “Firefly just broke out of prison,” Bruce growls, reaching for a refill of whatever he’s drinking. “Wh- Wait, who?” “Pyromaniac, serial arsonist in Gotham.” “How exactly did you learn this?” (read: do you have some kind of spider sense I don’t know about?) Bruce just gestures to his microscopic earpiece. Ollie offers, probably against his better judgement, to take a trip to Gotham and help catch Firefly. Bruce, barely able to see straight at that point (bad combination of sleeplessness and alcohol), accepts. So Ollie gets the full treatment, a trip to the cave and tea from Alfred and a haranguing from the kids and a trip to Blackgate with Firefly, even. In return he offers to have Bruce over in Star City sometime. Ollie is usually a little on edge around Bruce, but then he starts to see the real him and finds out that he does, in fact have a sense of humor. They have goofy adventures together and it’s all very cute

Aquaman: Arthur is hotheaded and when he gets in a Mood, the sight of Bruce and his stupid unmovable face just makes him angrier. But once during a mission, when Arthur is busy working himself into a panic, not knowing what to do, it’s Bruce that snaps him out of it. Grabs him by the shoulders and demands that he get a hold of himself. And it’s enough of a shock that it actually works- Bruce tells Arthur the plan, and Arthur does it without argument. No one is more surprised when it works than he is. He is SHOOK. Eventually he swallows his pride enough to go up to Batman and admit, “I think I’m still too emotionally invested in this, can you help me?” Bruce agrees, of course. He does his best to explain how he always keeps his emotions in check, especially when lives are on the line. It occurs to Arthur to wonder what kind of toll that takes on a person. He decides that Bruce could probably use a little vacation of sorts, and invites him to spend a day with him in Atlantis. A day in the life of a king, if you will. Bruce rolls his eyes and agrees, just to play along, but he ends up really enjoying it. Yes, there are a dozen-odd irons in the fire waiting for him when he gets home, but this time he finds that he actually has the energy to deal with them for once. Which is a good enough excuse to go back and do it again, and spend more time with Arthur in the process.

Dami is usually super resistant to Bruce dating anyone, but he would be ok with Arthur, I think. Like, “you bagged a king? Ok, respect”

Extra notes:

I feel like a lot of my thoughts about Clayface and Martian Manhunter specifically could also apply to Killer Croc, too, in a way. I mean, he’s not EVIL. He’s just never really been treated like a person, and so he embraced his image as Killer Croc instead of continuing to face that rejection. But if anyone can look past his exterior and see the needs of the man within, Bruce could. Feels a little weird to think about but maybe there’s something there.

Polyshipping is GREAT may I interest you in some ot3s??? SuperWonderBat is one of the more obvious ones, and I love it (cause Diana gets to play with TWO flustered boys) but BatLanternFlash is also top tier. And then there’s the villains! RiddleBatCat is one of my favorites! Also TwoRiddleBat and BruHarlIvy. The possibilities are endless!

I considered adding Lex and Slade to this post, but in the end I left them off. Cause it’s hard for me to see those as anything but weird, inherently unhealthy relationships. They’d make great black ships though : o

When talking about Bruce dating someone else from the JL, there’s DOUBLE the kids to embarrass. Can you imagine you’re like, Roy Harper or something, somebody’s sidekick, and you walk in and find BATMAN in bed with your mentor???? WILD

This post really got away from me, haha. Thanks for reading! Hit me up if you ever need someone to talk about Batshipping with (especially rarepairs, I got you fam)!

[dukereviewstv]

Duke Reviews TV: Batman: The Animated Series 1x15 And 1x16 The Cat And The Claw Parts 1 And 2

Hello, I'm Andrew Leduc And Welcome To The First Duke Reviews TV Episode Of 2021...

And To Quote Linkara "Let's Hope It's Better Than The Last!"...

Seriously, 2020 Sucked!, With The Coronavirus, And Various Other Problems With This Year, It Was Honestly The Worst, But I'm Going To Make 2021 The Best By Reviewing More TV Shows And Movies...

Anyway, I'm Continuing My Look At Batman: The Animated Series By Talking About Episodes 15 And 16 Of Season 1, The Cat And The Claw...

This Episode Sees A Villain Named Red Claw (Played By Captain Janeway From Star Trek Voyager) Arriving In Gotham To Steal A Viral Plague Which She'll Hold For Ransom For...

Well, Actually It's More Name Amount Here But You Get The Gist....

But Unfortunately, The Company That Gave Red Claw The Land She Is Using As A Base Is Of Interest To Selina Kyle (Played By Adrienne Barbeau) Who Wants To Use It As An Endangered Animal Reserve For Mountain Lions...

Can Both Catwoman And Batman Work Together And Stop Red Claw Before She Unleashes The Plague On Gotham?....

Let's Find Out As We Review The Cat And The Claw...

Part 1 Starts In Gotham As Catwoman Uses Her Cat, Isis To Steal An Valuable Necklace From An Expensive Apartment, But When She's Unknowingly Watched By Batman, He Confronts Her...

(Start At 1:21)

Later That Evening, Bruce Wayne Attends A Charity Auction For Animal Preservation Where He Is One Of The Bachelor's Up For Auction. Bidding Goes On For A While Until It Finally Ends When Selena Kyle, A Sponsor For A Mountain Lion Preserve Bids $10,000...

But While Bruce Is Happy To Be Her Date, Selena Is Only Interested In Saving The Animals, However, Bruce Insists On Keeping Their Date, So, She Lets Him Take Her To Lunch...

Meanwhile, Outside, Police Give Chase To A Military Truck Holding Army Weapons, Forcing Bruce To Leave The Auction Early So He Can Apprehend The Criminals And Stop The Robbery As Batman. But Unfortunately One Criminal Gets Away In The Sewers...

Talking With Gordon Afterwards, He Tells Batman That The Leader Of A Terrorist Group Named Red Claw...

Is In Gotham And That There Are No Leads To His/Her Whereabouts...

The Next Day, Selena And Her Secretary, Maven Talk About Selena's Upcoming Date With Bruce But Selena Is More Interested In Batman....

With The Phone Ringing As Bruce Comes Up, Selena Takes A Call From Her Lawyer That Her Deal To Purchase Land For A Mountain Lion Preserve Has Been Called Off As The Land Has Been Bought By Multigon International...

Offering To Get Selena A Meeting With Multigon's Chairman, Stern, Bruce Accompanies Selena As She Tries To Convince The Chairman To Not To Buy The Land But He Refuses, Claiming The Company Is Interested In Building A Resort There...

Furious And Threatening To Have Every Environmentalist On Multigon's Back, Selena Leaves As It's Revealed That Stern And Multigon Are Working With Red Claw, Who Is A Woman...

Telling Red Claw About Selena, She Orders Stern To Have Selena Tailed, Saying That Her Plans Are Too Important To Be Put In Jeopardy...

Later That Night, Batman Grills A Mob Boss On Red Claw While Catwoman Sneaks Into Multigon To Get Information From Their Files, But While Catwoman Takes Pics Of The Files, Red Claw Talks With Her Men About A Viral Plague That Interpol Stole From Her Organization Until....

(Start At 0:23, End At 4:12)

Returning Home, Selena Tells Maven What She Discovered As She Believes It Will Help Save The Mountain Lions But Unbeknownst To Selena, One Of Red Claw's Thugs Is Watching Her As Part 1 Ends...

Part 2 Begins In Gotham Park As The Mob Boss Batman Grilled For Information Arrives To Tell Him Rumors Of A Train Heist But He Doesn't Know If Red Claw Is Involved....

Telling Gordon About This, He Reveals There's Nothing On The Train Schedule, But When Batman Believes It To Be A Military Train, (Thereby Making Information On It Classified) Gordon Decides To Make A Call..

But When Batman Finally Goes To Stop Red Claw He's Already Too Late, She Has The Virus And Threatens That If Batman Gets Closer, She'll Unleash The Plague Which Will Kill Everyone Within A Ten Mile Radius...

The Next Day, Selena And Bruce Go Out On Their Date Only For Red Claw's Men To Attempt To Crash Their Car But Taking Evasive Maneuvers, Bruce Forces The Thugs Off The Bridge By Playing Chicken...

Taking Selena Home, Bruce Urges Her To Tell Him If She's In Any Trouble As He Really Cares About Her, But Selena Just Thanks Bruce For His Concern Before Going Back Into Her Apartment...

Upset About The Attempt On Her Life, Selena Suits Up And Goes Out As Catwoman While Bruce Wonders Selena's Connection To Red Claw But When Alfred Finds A Cat Hair On Bruce's Coat, He Remembers A Similar Hair Left By Isis The Night Before And He Finally Puts 2 And 2 Together...

Arriving As Batman To Save Maven From One Of Red Claw's Thugs He Confronts Maven On Catwoman's Activities Whereabouts Which Leads Her To Tell Him Everything Including The Fact That She's In Love With Him,.,

Infiltrating The Multigon Site, Catwoman Deals With A Security Guard Before Entering The Facility Through The Ventilation System, Eventually Getting Out Of The Vent, She Takes Pics Of Their Weapons Only To Be Spotted By Red Claw's Men..

Batman Attempts To Save Her But They Both Only Get Captured By Red Claw's Men, Who Tie Them Up In A Bunker Where The Government Hides Officials In Case Of An Emergency...

Dumping Acid On The Container With The Virus, Red Claw Leaves With Her Men With The Hopes That Catwoman And Batman Will Die...

(End At 4:10)

Returning Home, Catwoman Finds Maven To Be Gone As Batman Arrives To Admit That He Has Feelings For Her Too As He Places Her Under Arrest, Ending The Episode...

And I Don't Know About You Guys But I Think That Move Is Really Going To Hurt Their Relationship...

These Episodes Are Pretty Good...

The Story Is Pretty Interesting With The Stuff With Catwoman Being The Best, But The Stuff With Red Claw Just Was Not Good...

I Don't Find The Character Interesting Because She Just Had No Character Whatsoever And Was Just Another Threat Than Someone Who Could Be Developed Into A Member Of Batman's Rogues...

But Aside From Red Claw, I Enjoyed The Episodes And I Say See Them...

Till Next Time, This Is Duke, Signing Off....

[heroicadventurists]

Batman and The Outsiders # 1 **SPOILERS**

Lesser Gods part 1

Recap and Review

This issue begins in Los Angeles. A Father (Gabriel) and Daughter (Sofia) are driving along a highway. Sofia is listening to her headphones to the annoyance of her Dad. He tells her to play music in the car but she tells him she prefers the headphones. He promptly reminds her that he is her Father and asks her to take the headphones off. She complies.

-“You’re thinking about your Mother. I know what day it is. I won’t tell you how to grieve, but Ana would want you to be happy, she always said—" Gabriel

The car suddenly hits a man standing in the middle of the road, but instead of killing the man, he crushes the car.

The man stands on top of the car and pulls Gabriel thru the windshield. He grabs his neck and you see a light escaping his eyes and mouth before he dies. Before Sofia can run, the man grabs Sofia by her neck.

-“Nothing from my touch. Strange. So scared. You don’t know what you are. Let me show you.”-Strange killer

The man proceeds to throw Sofia over the bypass and she slams into a gas tanker. The tanker explodes from impact and the scene ends with Sofia’s screaming face.

The issue switches to Gotham City. Signal and Orphan appear to be at the docks, taking cover from a mad man (Saint John) wielding a machine gun. Signal tells Orphan that he can rush Saint John but Orphan tells him to wait for Black Lightning. Duke does not respond well to this.

Suddenly Black Lightning appears, firing lightning at Saint John’s helmet, while Katana slices his gun with her sword. Black Lightning tells Katana to cover her eyes and he lights Saint John up.

With Saint John down, Black Lightning reprimands Signal for not waiting for him & Katana. Signal tells Black Lightning that he is not his Father and he’s not Batman.

-“Neither are you, Signal. That’s why I had to save your life. We have to work together. We’re a team.” – Black Lightning

Shamed, Signal walks away and tells everyone he will call GCPD. Katana asks Orphan if he is normally like this. She responds that he has been different since he was injured by Karma.

The scene switches once again to Kubrick Towers. Bruce is meeting Jefferson for a report.

-“Duke’s not right. Cassandra thinks this is recess. Katana will kill someone before this is over.” -Jefferson

Bruce tells Jefferson they are his team and to make them what he wants them to be. Jefferson questions if this is truly his team. At this point Jefferson and Bruce have a real conversation about Bruce’s real intentions with forming the Outsiders.

-“I need to solve some things. For myself. And they…need more from me than I can give.” – Bruce

On his way out, Bruce tells Jefferson he put the penthouse in his name.

We switch to what appears to be the Batcave. Batman is surveying the wreck from earlier in the issue. It’s confirmed that Gabriel is dead and Sofia is missing.

We move to an abandoned building that Tatsu is living in. She is trying to communicate with her husband’s soul inside her sword.

Tatsu tells Jefferson he is not as quiet as he thinks, and he comes out of the shadows. He tells her that he needs her wisdom. Tatsu tells him to pick up a sword. They spar while Jefferson asks Tatsu for her help.

-“Duke is punishing himself. Cassandra is a mystery I can’t solve. Help me with them.” – Jefferson

Jefferson tells Tatsu that he needs a partner. He wants her to challenge him. After he leaves, her husband’s soul speaks to her “Taaatttsssuuuuu”. She cries as she holds the sword.

Next, we see Cass and Duke riding her motorcycle. During the ride, Duke is only thinking about Karma and he cries out for Cass to stop. She asks Duke if he’s ok and he tells her he still sees Karma.

“It’s okay. When I sleep…I see my Dad.”-Cass

Cass tells him it’s okay to be afraid, and he yells that he is not afraid. Cass begins to apologize but their batwatches go off.

The Outsiders meet up with Batman on top of a building. He briefs them on The Ark Program. A consortium of billionaires wanted to create their own metahumans. Batman burned it down. The architects tried to kill all the test subject, and only the Ramos family survived. Bruce Wayne and Lucius Fox set them up in a house in Los Angeles and Batman promised them they would stay safe. Batman informs the team that the Mother eventually died due to the experiments and Gabriel was just killed. Their task is to find Sofia and bring her to Gotham. At this, Batman grapples away.

Right away, Black Lightning is distrustful of Batman and wants to decline the mission. In the end, Katana informs the team that they are taking the mission.

-“I don’t trust Batman. But that doesn’t matter. What does matter----is us trusting each other. Because I have a feeling we are own our own.”-Black Lightning

We go back to Sofia, and she is at the train station trying to keep a low profile and get out of Los Angeles. As she’s walking a man in the shadows grabs her from behind. He tells her that she will pull humanity from the ashes; and thru her a new age is born.

Review

I really enjoyed this comic. First off, the art work is AMAZING. Dexter Soy really took this comic book to the next level. The only thing that threw me off was Bruce looking like an older version of Jason. I had to do a double take for a moment. Speaaking of Jason, Gabriel's license plate was TODD JASON. Dexter did a great job.

I really enjoyed the development we’re getting with Duke. Duke had a very traumatic experience with Karma in Detective Comics, and it’s nice to see them addressing those issues.

I am also intrigued by Jefferson’s relationship with Duke and Tatsu. A part of me feels like Duke is pushing Jefferson away because he reminds him of his Father; or he feels that Jefferson is trying to take his Father’s place. He really has no other reason to be this combative. Jefferson is eventually going to break down Duke’s walls; and when he does, I think they will have an unbreakable bond.

Jefferson and Tatsu have a lot of chemistry and I would probably ship Jefferson with Tatsu if I knew the status of Anissa and Jennifer. If he hasn’t had them yet, then I wouldn’t ship them, but if he’s divorced from Lynn already, then it would be an interesting relationship to explore.

When Jefferson visited Tatsu, she told him that Cassandra was afraid of her future. I hope this is tied to Detective Comics 980 where Cass learned she was both Batgirl and adopted. Stephanie seems to have taken the news from Tec 980 well. She's not bitter that she was never Robin or Batgirl in this timeline. She is actually referring to herself as a Robin in Young Justice. Stephanie doesn't care what time line it happened in, a win is a win. Cass's situation is entirely different. While she can take the same approach with the Batgirl mantle, she can't do that with the adoption. That has to be something formally initiated by Bruce. I think there are a couple of things Cass could be afraid of: (1) Deep inside she is bad and they will get rid of her like they did Basil (2) She never reaches her full potential and does not become an official bat (she never wears the symbol) (3) She's never adopted again (if Bruce doesn't adopt her, what does that mean for their current relationship?). It could be something else entirely or a combination of 1-3. Hill has a lot of compelling directions he can go with Cass. A follow up from Tec 980 would be great.

Last, but certainly not least….Bruce Wayne. Honestly, Bruce came across as someone who really doesn’t care what the team is doing as long as they stay out of his hair and they’re alive. When Bruce met with Jefferson at Kubrick Towers, he confirmed my suspicions that he formed BatO and put Jefferson in charge so he could be Duke and Cassandra’s primary mentor. While it may seem messed up that he is not making time for them, I respect the honesty of the situation. Bruce’s life is crap right now. He’s trying to rebuild his relationship with Damian, he has no clue what to do with Jason and this Iceberg situation, Dick is Ric and at some point, he should realize that Tim is missing on Gemworld. Not to mention his Dad from another Universe is teaming up with his enemy and he’s still heartbroken over Selina. He’s stretched thin and has realized he doesn’t have the physical time or emotional availability to look after/mentor Duke and Cass. He’s giving them a better option in Jefferson. He even gave Jefferson a pent house for his troubles. I think Jefferson knew from the beginning why Bruce formed the team, which explains why he doesn’t trust him. They are laying the seeds of Batman eventually leaving the Outsiders and if that happens, I feel like this comic will be a great vehicle for Black Lightning to shine. I wouldn’t be surprised if they phased Batman out of the title once they have some consistent sales. It wouldn’t be anytime soon, but I wouldn’t mind BatO becoming The Outsiders.

This was a great issue with some great art. If you’re a fan of these characters I highly recommend you pick up this issue.

[lalaurelia]

Quick Gotham 5x09 thoughts

No Gobblepot again, Jim and Lee are the worst possible couple ever, Harvey should have more friends and BatCat are amazing. I had better hopes for this ep. Let’s get to the sad and bitter rant and get this over with.

The shooting happens right at the start, and Oswald says the “mi casa - su casa” line and it’s the only Gobblepot interaction we’re apparently going to get. How, why? Okay, no time for tears just yet...

Jim is hauled off dramatically and is critical and the only doctor left is, apparently, Lee, who hasn’t done surgery since forever. Just what makes this woman “the best” doctor in Gotham again? Ah. It’s the fact that she’s the only one. We’re just gonna ignore the med ward staff who cared for Selina and Lucius who fixed Ed’s head, for the sake of this stupid detail.

I had such great hopes for Jim’s trial, for his trip through his guilty conscience and I feel absolutely robbed that the only witness we got for him was Lee. Seriously? He never even mentioned her for the several eps in the beginning, he ignored her existence for the whole previous ep, and now suddenly she’s the only person he’s hurt? Let’s not get into the amount of Jim’s wrongdoings to Oswald, I can keep my shipping goggles off here - what about Barbara? He got her in danger with Falcone back in the beginning and she was terrified of Zsasz because of him. Ogre targeted her and tortured her because of her connection to Jim. Then Jim ignored her when she was vulnerable and wanted to feel human again, but apparently she was good enough to use for help and intel throughout several seasons, apparently she was good enough for some comfort sex, she will be the mother of his child. And she doesn’t even get a mention in his thoughts. That’s just low.

And since I started ranting, it’s also quite low how Lee only has criticism for Jim and his wish to help Gotham, to save the city. Sure, it masks his suicidal tendencies. Sure, Jim is a complete mess, no matter how you take it. Will constant nagging and guilt-tripping fix it? Will it make him change? I don’t think so.

What nags and squicks me is the fact that Lee is so sure she gets to raise the baby that Barbara’s pregnant with. She is sure of it to the point she thinks she’s going to do it if Jim kicks the bucket. “What am I supposed to do, raise it with Barbara Kean?” No, Lee, you don’t have any claim to the kid, even your supposed moral claim due to your relationship with Jim is tenuous at best. And if anything happened to Jim I’m positive Babs wouldn’t want the toxic Lee Thompkins anywhere close.

God. It’s an unholy mess of a triangle and it’s terribly handled and I will praise Gotham to high heaven on public social media like Twitter, but really... it’s bad. I want to believe it could be better handled with slower pacing. With more episodes to develop the relationships and deal with the emotional baggage left behind by previous storylines. But it’s astonishingly bad as it is now.

The trial lacks input from other characters. It would’ve made Jim’s journey and guilt be brought into focus more, it would’ve been an interesting study of his perception of himself. Of what he thinks of other characters. But we only got the most boring option of Lee. Not even Harvey got a say. Ugh.

On the outside, Bruce and Selina have the cutest date. They’re just good. It was a pleasure to see them grow closer and closer consistently. Seriously, such a contrast.

The Ivy plot feels somewhat repetitive. We’ve been through this. We’ve seen this already. But I do love that it also brings BatCat closer. And Ivy is compelling and beautiful and it’s sad we don’t get more of her.

Ugh I don’t know. I wanted to enjoy this episode so much. But Jim and Lee get on my nerves too much with how unnecessary their relationship is. And how badly it affects Barbara, who already gets treated like a surrogate mother bearing a child for Jim and Lee and I can’t stress enough how terrible this plot is and how much dread it fills me with. I don’t want Babs to die for Lee to get her murderous mean hands on the kid. I don’t want Lee anywhere close to Gotham, actually. How is she not treated as a criminal? She poisoned the whole damn city with the Tetch virus. She went on the criminal spree with Ed. How is she suddenly elevated to the white-clad desirable bride is seriously annoying on so many levels. A woman character shouldn’t be treated like this, shouldn’t be deprived of her own agenda and stuffed into the cliche love interest role that doesn’t even get any more depth than that.

And uuugh Lee and the kid. What prevents her from getting her own? Apparently Jim is fertile enough - shouldn’t they just, I dunno, try? Instead of basically plotting to take the child away from the real mother. It is so terrible, FFS.

It also feels awful how Barbara tries to do the right thing, keep Gotham under control, all of it for Jim, - and get to see him marrying another woman and her not even getting some respect and gratitude she really is due.

It also feels weird to see her perform the Oswald role and him reduced to standing on the sidelines. Because really. Intel gathering and keeping Gotham in check has always been Oswald’s prerogative, his MO, his role. Even the motivation is more or less the same for him and Barbara - to get Jim appreciate them and consider their feelings. So this is all kinds of weird and wrong too. It would’ve felt so much more interesting and poignant if it was Oswald still.

Also this was the last ep to be filmed. Will this terrible wedding be ignored in the later ones? What was the point to it then?

The only thing it was good for was getting that sweet BatCat kiss. Now that made me go “awww”. And only that.

[justgotham]

Alfred Pennyworth is about to learn one of the hardest lessons of parenting: letting go. In the Gotham Season 4 finale, the loyal butler left the city with Selina Kyle to oversee her recovery, while his charge Bruce Wayne stayed behind to stop Jeremiah once and for all. Though Alfred will be spending some time outside Gotham with Selina, don't count him out just yet; Gotham star Sean Pertwee promised his character will see some action in Season 5 -- but he may pay a major price for it.

During a set visit in October, Pertwee told CBR about Alfred's role now that Gotham has gone full "No Man's Land." He discussed Alfred's evolving relationship with Selina and how his character sees himself in her. He also teased a crucial fight that "actually has repercussions," a major moment between Alfred and Bruce and more.

CBR: At the end of last season, Bruce struck out on his own. How is Alfred coping with that?

Pertwee: Well, you know, no parent likes it and that's what he is, essentially. He's a parent, and a bit like every parent -- like I'm doing with my own son, who's called Alfred -- you've got to let them fly... It's a tightrope, dealing with a teenager. You've got to be there, you've got to give them parameters, but you also have to let them go. And after his behavior last season, I should have let him go. I should have chucked him off a building, really. Disgraceful! He's so mean to me. I love the fact that the liturgy of fans actually sort of piped up and stuck by Alfred and the support was so evident. It's like, "How do you deal with this guy? He's a nightmare! Bruce of Wall St., or whatever it is." Yeah, so, that's it. Yeah.

How does Alfred's relationship with Selina evolve?

A lot of people have asked that! It's quite interesting, because it was something that's -- John Stephens, I was talking to him about it last night because I've got a couple of quite big scenes with her coming up and I said, well, of course, you know, the thing is the reason why he's like that with [her] is because he sees himself in her, because he was a troubled child and ran with the gangs and everything in the East End of London before he joined the services and he has a very dark past and he sees a lot of himself in her and John Stephens said, "Interesting. I never knew that." [laughs]

So, this is the last season and we have to find a way to give our characters heartbeats and that's what's so clever about our show. When we're developing these characters, you don't leap in. They become the people by Season 5. Everyone has a propensity for violence and goodness and badness. That's what I love about the show. Everyone fails. Everyone's fallible, as was Alfred as a parent. I mean, his parenting skills were a nightmare to begin with but then he learned to love and the boy respected and loved him back. Then they had this very strange relationship and she was part of it. Otherwise, she'd be swimming with the fishes, I imagine. There must have been a reason -- because I said this to John -- I said there must be a reason why he put up with her. You know, she stabbed and kicked my friend out of a window! Stabbed people. Stole from us. Messed with him. Alfred doesn't take kindly to that, so I had to find a reason for it, and it's because he sees himself in her and he knows that he cares for her.

Alfred is truly a man of action. Does that continue in Season 5?

Yes. [laughs] That's all I can say! There's not as much, because -- as you know -- I've had some legendary altercations with people... the stunt guys Norman [Douglass] and Turner [Smith] have allowed me to do all my own fights, which I love to doing. My wife doesn't like it when I do them, because I come home black and blue and I don't bounce like I used to, but yeah, there's a massive one coming up, which actually has repercussions, and I can't say anymore.

Do you have a favorite moment or scene from Season 5?

No, I haven't shot it yet. I know what it is, and I can't wait. We've had very little alone time, and we always have that. Bruce and I, we have culmination scenes; when he discovers, like, "Thou shall not kill" and I say, "Say it again." Which is like the mantra for Batman, and that was an amazing moment for us, to say that, because David [Mazouz] being a huge Batman fan, it's a huge part of his character, and he gets there with Alfred, whereas Alfred has absolutely no worries about knocking someone off or killing somebody. So there's a couple of scenes coming that I'm really looking forward to and with the man, but they haven't happened yet, so that's all I can say.

[optimisticcritique]

I haven’t really shared much about my opinions about Gotham so I decided I would share some: 

The thing I love most is watching Bruce becoming his Batman-self and villains growing into their own. I get so excited when these things happen.

I don’t really hate any characters. I get annoyed and frustrated with certain storylines or the way a character acts but can’t say that I fully despise any. I find the cast and characters immensely entertaining to watch.

I wish the show would work on backstories and information for some characters a bit. We don’t know enough about characters like Lucius, Ed, Tabitha, etc. Can we hear more about their childhood? What does Lucius do when he isn’t on screen, besides learning self-defense that apparently isn’t working for him?

I have a handful of ships but my favorite one is nygmobblepot. I will always love them. I also love them both individually as characters.

A scene I can't watch: Lee getting her hand smashed. I just can’t. 

I love both Jerome and Jeremiah for different reasons. Jerome is crazy and entertaining. Jeremiah is smart, calculating, and pretty unpredictable. Both relationships with Bruce and others are different, which is interesting.

I love Lucius Fox and want him to have more scenes. 

I love Harvey Bullock. 

I loved Fish. I wish they would have done more with her in season 3. 

While I loved seeing Jonathan become the Scarecrow, it was sad to see him go into a fear coma.

I was indifferent toward Jervis in the beginning but he grew on me. 

I love when Oswald outsmarts people or does the unexpected. 

I love both early season Ed and super extra Riddler Ed. 

I loved Lee/Ed’s relationship pre-romance. I wish they had kept it. 

I love independent Lee with no romance. 

Even though I do ship nygmobblepot, I would also like to see Ed go a full season without romance.

I didn’t hate Isabella. I just wish they could have at least used her to her full potential or better explained her. They could have done more.

I wish they would use Victor Fries/Mr. Freeze and Bridgit/Firefly for actual arcs again and not just lackeys. 

I find Oswald/Ivy entertaining. Hope we get more.

I enjoy all the Ivys but Maggie is probably my favorite. 

I love the relationships with Selina/Bridgit and Selina/Ivy. They have an interesting history and care about each other in their own ways. 

Oswald/his parents and Oswald/Martin scenes always make me emotional. Ed/Oswald scenes do too but in a completely different way.

There’s about one or two episodes each season that I find myself rarely wanting to re-watch. Sadly, it happens. 

Wasn’t a big fan of Babs taking Ra’s place and gaining the league. However, I loved the different emotions and character development of Babs that came out of it. 

Episodes without Oswald in them throw me off. 

I miss Essen. Wish she didn’t have to die. 

Wish we could have had more Grundy/Ed. They were fun. 

I feel like they could have done more with Grundy. They only used him for 4 episodes before Butch’s memory came back. It wasn’t enough.

Other interactions I love to watch are Ed/Lucius, Oswald/Jim, Harvey/Lucius, Zsasz/Oswald, Headhunter/Zsasz, Jeremiah/Bruce, Jerome/Bruce, Lee/Babs, Jervis/Jonathan, Jerome/Oswald, Harvey/Alfred, Bruce/Alfred, Bruce/Selina, Bruce/Oswald, Bruce/Ed, Fish/Oswald, Selina/Tabby, any rogues interacting with each other, any rogues interacting with Bruce, etc. 

I love a lot of interactions/dynamics if that wasn’t obvious. 

I love Arkham episodes. Every time a main character gets sent there, I’m actually excited. It does suck to see them in pain or tortured though. 

While I love the show, I am well aware of its faults and plotholes. However, at least I can honestly say that it is a show I genuinely enjoy watching. I also hope it finds a way to have more seasons. 

[phantom-le6]

Episode Reviews - Batman: The Animated Series Season 1 (5 of 10)

Our next instalment of episodes from Batman: The Animated Series season 1 will bring us to a major highlight episode of the series, but first we begin with an introduction to another Batman’s various foes.

Episode 27: Mad as a Hatter

Plot (as given by me):

Wayne Enterprises scientist Jervis Tetch has been neglecting development of microchips to enhance the potential of the human brain, focusing instead on similar technology that acts to allow one person to control others.  While Bruce Wayne is accommodating to Tetch, his supervisor Dr Cates is far less understanding.  Tetch is comforted by co-worker Alice Pleasance, with whom Tetch is smitten but unable to obtain due to her having a boyfriend.

 In private, Tetch contemplates either leaving Alice alone or using his mind control devices on her, but neither option appeals to him; he can’t give up on her, but he doesn’t want her to be a mindless shell either.  However, when he learns Alice has had a fight with her boyfriend and the relationship is over, Tetch decides to woo her.  He takes her out for a night on the town, dressing himself up to resemble the Mad Hatter from Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland and using mind-control devices to make other people serve him, creating the impression he is a man of great reputation in Gotham.  Along the way, he uses two of the devices to stop two muggers and tells them to jump off a bridge.

 The attempted suicide draws the attention of Batman, who saves the criminals and recognises the technology involved as Tetch’s work.  The next day, Tetch is infuriated to learn that after his ‘date’ with Alice, her boyfriend apologised and proposed to her, resulting in them becoming engaged.  At the same time, Cates informs Tetch that Wayne wants to see him.  As a result, Tetch takes control of Cates and leaves, then takes control of Alice’s boyfriend to make him break their engagement off.  That evening, Tetch tries to woo Alice again, but he is confronted at her apartment by Batman.  Forced to even greater extremes, Tetch sets two mind-controlled henchmen dressed as the Walrus and the Carpenter on Batman, then puts a mind control device on Alice before fleeing with her.

 Examining one of the Mad Hatter-style mind control cards and learning the card component came from Storybook Land, a literary-based park, Batman goes there to confront Tetch.  Battling his way through an army of mind-controlled people, among them Billy and Dr Cates, and overcoming various wonderland-themed obstacles, Batman finally subdues Tetch.  Billy removes Alice’s mind-control headband, freeing her while Tetch watches brokenheartedly from where a Jabberwock statue has him pinned.

Review:

The Mad Hatter is apparently a Batman villain who has been around for a long time according to Wikipedia, going right back to an initial appearance in comics back in 1948.  However, unlike some of Batman’s other rogues he doesn’t get draw as much attention when it comes to adaptations.  Certainly, his only appearances in Batman films have been the animated direct-to-home-release ones, but he’s managed to make a few good showings in TV show adaptations, this one included.  The basic elements of his character, namely an obsession with the works of Lewis Carol in general and Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland in particular, and mind-controlling people are both incorporated into this episode. However, the episode incorrectly shortens the book title to Alice in Wonderland, doubtless due to Disney and others shortening it in adaptations before this.

 It’s a decent introductory episode, and while we can initially empathise a little with Tetch over the unrequited love aspect of his story, his increasingly disturbing use of mind control to win the day for himself swiftly puts his creep factor through the roof.  While his motives remain understandable throughout, his methods simply make him someone you’re not going to really feel for by about half-way through at the latest.  Overall, I’d give the whole thing 8 out of 10.

Episode 28: Dream in Darkness

Plot (as given by me):

Batman is trapped in a cell at Arkham Asylum, restrained in a straitjacket and not being listened to by the doctors as he warns them of imminent danger to Gotham.  A few days before, Batman interfered with someone’s plans to poison the water supply of a local spa, and in the process was exposed to some kind of gaseous chemical.  Initially believing himself to be unaffected, Batman later began to experience terrifying hallucinations.  Batman later gained confirmation that he was affected from Dr Wu, the hospital doctor treating the would-be saboteur.  However, as treatment would put Batman out of action for too long, the dark knight proceeded to Arkham, having deduced the gas to be the Scarecrow’s work.

 Crashing the Batmobile due to another hallucination, Batman has now been admitted to Arkham, where the staff are clueless to Scarecrow’s escape.  However, when a check of Scarecrow’s room reveals he has escaped, Batman deduces he is actually beneath the asylum.  There is a river running through the caverns under the asylum that provides Gotham with water, and Scarecrow is going to put his fear chemicals in the water; the attempt on the spa was a test-run for this.  The doctors try to stop Batman due to him still being affected by the fear chemicals, but he is ultimately able to overcome them and get to the caverns.

 In the caverns, Batman battles the Scarecrow’s men and his own hallucinations to foil Scarecrow’s plan, and in the process, Scarecrow is exposed to his own chemicals.  While Scarecrow is returned to the care of the asylum, Batman finally takes the treatment back in the Batcave and sleeps.

Review:

This is an ok Scarecrow episode whose plot mirrors part of what would end up being the overall story of the 2005 film Batman Begins.  It’s also kind of interesting to see Batman being treated as an asylum inmate, although the episode doesn’t really explore the premise as fully as a live-action Batman show might.  In fact, this is a key reason why I’d like to see someone do a live-action Batman show instead of a Bruce Wayne/Jim Gordon prequel like Gotham or a spin-off character show like Batwoman.  Batman is a character that makes for better TV fodder than film fodder, but sadly no TV show fully does him justice.  Even this series, iconic as it is, falls short at times because of its animated and supposedly child-friendly nature.  All in all, I’d give this episode 6 out of 10.

Episode 29: Eternal Youth

Plot (as given by me):

As Bruce Wayne angrily threatens to fire one of his executives for making a deal with a slash-and-burn company, he and Alfred stumble upon a video invitation to the ‘Eternal Youth Spa’ in Bruce’s mail. The video invites Bruce for a free weekend at the spa, but Bruce declines.  Instead, Alfred is convinced to go along with his lady friend Maggie. At the spa, they are welcomed by scientist Dr Daphne Demeter, who has imbued everything at the spa with a restorative chemical she called Demetrite.  Alfred is sceptical at first, but changes his mind upon sampling the spa’s food and water.

 Meanwhile, Batman learns a number of corporate executives have disappeared, and when he investigates, he finds one has received the same video invite to the spa that he did.  He calls Alfred, who claims the executive in question checked out some weeks ago and has seen nothing untoward, but Batman remains unconvinced.  When Alfred returns, he becomes something of a green fanatic, continuing to consume Demetrite and filling the Batcave with plants. However, when Alfred collapses, Batman grows even more concerned and begins an analysis of the Demetrite. Batman’s analysis reveals the chemical can turn human plasma into plant matter, and when he tries to warn Alfred, he finds that his butler has left.

 Alfred and Maggie have been drawn back to the spa, but soon find themselves transformed into trees.  When Batman follows, it turns out Dr Demeter is actually Poison Ivy; she has been luring corporate executives to her spa to turn them into trees as punishment for business decisions that caused devastation to plant life.  Apparently, Alfred and Maggie were targeted in Bruce Wayne’s absence due to the brief-lived deal with the slash-and-burn operation, but Ivy explains her victims are only covering in a tree-like exo-skeleton at the moment; a full transformation will take months of additional spraying.

 Ivy then tries to have Batman transformed, but he’s coated his uniform with a herbicidal antidote.  He quickly subdues Ivy’s henchwomen, but in trying to tackle Ivy, the chemical enzyme is spilled and causes a massive tree to grow, pinning Ivy to the roof of the spa’s greenhouse before crashing through.  In the aftermath, Ivy’s henchwomen are arrested and her victims cured, but Ivy herself is missing.  Later, Bruce tries to cheer Alfred and Maggie up with the ill-chosen gift of a plant.

Review:

Out first Poison Ivy episode since she was introduced very early in the series, and to be honest it’s not a great follow-up. Again, we have a mystery that isn’t really a mystery because Ivy’s involvement is given away very early on, making it a boring slog as you watch Batman try to catch up with what the audience already knows.  We also have the random one-off character of Maggie as a possible love interest for Alfred…why?  Based on my knowledge of the comics, not only does she seem to be a one-off character for the show, but in the comics Alfred had a bit of a love interest in Dr Leslie Thompkins.  To my mind, putting both of Bruce’s surrogate parents would have made far more sense. I’m giving this one a meagre 4 out of 10 and hoping for better on the next episode.

Episode 30: Perchance to Dream

Plot (as given by me):

Batman pursues some criminals into a warehouse, but is then knocked out.  Coming to back at Wayne Manor, he finds that everything has changed; the Batcave is gone, he’s engaged to Selina Kyle and his parents are still alive.  Even stranger, while Bruce is talking with Selina at Wayne Enterprises, they both see Batman intervene in foiling a jewellery heist.  Going to see Dr Leslie Thompkins as the only doctor he can trust, Bruce is lead to believe his life as Batman was a disassociation fantasy, something he created to compensate for his hollow life as a rich playboy.

 Bruce is ready to embrace this until he tries to read something and finds all the words are jumbled and make no sense. Realising this is all somehow linked to the Batman, Bruce runs away, picking up supplies at a sporting goods store but then abandoning them to escape the police.  Finding his way to a belltower he knows to be part of the Batman’s nightly patrol, Bruce confronts “Batman”, and discovers Jervis Tetch, AKA the Mad Hatter, behind the mask.  It turns out Bruce, the real Batman, is in a dream machine created by Tetch.  The machine reveals nothing to the outside world, so Bruce’s dual identity remains safe; its purpose is to create an ideal reality the occupant of the machine won’t want to escape.

 Bruce deduced that he was in a dream based on his inability to dream, claiming that reading was a function of the opposite side of the brain to the one generating dreams.  He refuses to live a lie and further deduces that killing himself in the dreamscape will awaken him in the real world.  To that end, he hurls himself from the top of the bell tower, and reawakens in the warehouse as Batman.  Quickly defeating Tetch’s henchmen, Batman demands to know why Tetch put him in the dream machine.  Breaking down into tears, Tetch reveals he was so desperate to have the Batman not interfere with his life, he was willing to give his foe any life he wanted.

Review:

For the first time since the early episodes of this show, we have a Batman villain making a return appearance only a few episodes after they initially show up, and unlike the recent Poison Ivy episode, the mystery isn’t revealed too early.  It takes a while to discover what is behind Bruce suddenly not being Batman, but even then, the episode isn’t quite as well-executed as it could be. Part of this is based on an episode of Justice League Unlimited, which used a similar concept but to better effect. However, a far larger part is based on a graphic novel in the Justice League series entitled ‘Divided We Fall’.

 The graphic novel in question occurs right after ‘Tower of Babel’, a story arc in which contingency plans created by Batman for taking down his fellow heroes were stolen and used by Ra’s Al Ghul.  In the climax of the follow-up arc, an energy-based being known as Id was altering reality based on the wishes of people it encountered.  One wish, made by Superman, was that the members of the Justice League didn’t have to have dual identities that made it difficult for the team members to trust each other.  As a result of that wish, those members of the league who had dual identities became split into their separate identities.

 The split didn’t last because the members found that each half of themselves stabilised the other, and in Batman’s case, the Batman persona was a vessel through which Bruce Wayne could direct his aggression and frustration over being helpless to save his parents.  Now granted, that story came to the comics years after this episode, but for me it’s the definitive idea of how Bruce would react to not being Batman if you didn’t go back and change history to achieve that.  Bruce would never come close to accepting not being Batman in any situation where he had any memory, any awareness of being Batman, and as such I can’t buy into even the brief moments where he ends up being ok with it.  It’s just not who he is, plain and simple.  My end score for this episode is 5 out of 10.

Episode 31: The Cape and Cowl Conspiracy

Plot (as given by me):

When bearer bonds ear-marked for humanitarian aid are coerced from a diplomatic courier by means of a death trap, Batman suspects the involvement of one Josiah Wormwood, also known as The Interrogator. To confirm Wormwood is in Gotham, Batman visits Baron Wacklaw Josek, an associate of Wormwood’s, and tries to intimidate him into leaving Gotham for a while.  Later, Wormwood meets with Josek, who asks him to obtain the Batman’s cape and cowl.  Wormwood wants to know why Josek wants them, but Josek will only reveal this if Wormwood will tell him who hired him to steal the bearer bonds, something Wormwood refuses to disclose.

 Batman is later summoned to Gotham Police Headquarters by Commissioner Gordon via the Bat-Signal, where he learns one of Wormwood’s rhyming riddle invitations has been left.  The note leads Batman to Traintown, a heritage railway park where Wormwood tries to use the trains as a death-trap.  However, Batman is more resourceful than Wormwood expected and escapes, forcing Wormwood to prepare a second trap.  This time, he sets the death trap at DeLarue’s Wax Museum, and this time the trap proves too much for Batman, forcing him to hand over his cape and cowl.  As a precaution, Batman has a secondary mask under his cowl, so his dual identity is not revealed.

 At Josek’s office, Wormwood makes his delivery and his desire to know what Josek will do with the cape and cowl prompts him to finally explain the bearer bond theft.  At this point, it is revealed that the Josek Wormwood dealt with was really Batman in disguise; the real Josek left Gotham as Batman had earlier insisted.  Wormwood tries to escape with the key that is required to retrieve the bonds, but Batman battles him and ultimately defeats him.  The bonds are recovered and Wormwood sent to prison, where Batman sends him his cape and cowl with a rhyming riddle-clue note of his own.

Review:

After a stretch of several proper Batman rogues, it can be nice to get an episode that takes a break and does something different, but this episode isn’t the best break the show could have gone for. The riddle-style clues, while meant to be more rhymes than riddles, shouldn’t have been just because they’re a hallmark of the Riddler (who the show had yet to introduce its version of) or Cluemaster (a more lucid professional criminal who copied the Riddler’s M.O. in the comics to avoid suspicion).  I also don’t like the ending where Batman sends his own riddle clue in return; it’s too silly an action to come from a character like Batman, which just makes me think no one took this episode seriously.  It seems to just be a ‘let’s put Batman in a bunch of death traps because we’ve not done enough of these’.  People, for goodness’ sake, if you want a show about a DC superhero getting out of death traps, make a show for Mr Miracle.  I give this episode 4 out of 10.

Episode 32: Robin’s Reckoning (Part 1)

Plot (as given by me):

A stake-out at a construction site results in Batman and Robin tackling a gang of protection racketeers in the bones of an incomplete skyscraper.  Capturing one of the criminals for interrogation, the dynamic duo press him for the name of the person running the protection rackets in Gotham.  The criminal gives up the name of Billy Marin, which prompts Batman to dismiss Robin to grab the Batmobile, using the time alone with the criminal to extract more information.  Batman then returns Robin to the Batcaver before leaving again, refusing to explain his sudden shift in attitude.

 Suspecting the mention of Marin’s name is what caused Batman’s sudden change in attitude, Robin looks up the name on the Batcaver computer, and learns that Billy Marin is an alias for Tony Zucco.  Robin then flashes back to his childhood; back then he was Dick Grayson, one-third of the Flying Graysons trapeze act at Haley’s Circus. His parents were the other two-thirds of the act.  One day, the young Dick saw Tony Zucco arguing with Mr Haley, who refused to pay protection money to Zucco, prompting Zucco to threaten Haley in return.

 That night during a charity event for the Wayne Foundation, Dick’s parents fell to their deaths as a result of Zucco sabotaging the trapeze ropes.  Having been in the audience, Bruce Wayne remained behind and learned from Jim Gordon that the boy had no family, and while the circus folks wanted to take Dick in, his status as a material witness to the crime meant he could be in danger. As a result, Bruce offered to take Dick into his care at Wayne Manor.  Dick was given the room that was Bruce’s as a child.

 Meanwhile, Batman experiences his own flashback to the same period in time.  Leaving Dick in the capable hands of Alfred, Bruce went out looking for Zucco as Batman. Going undercover to some back-alley street gambling, he learned Zucco was being sheltered by his uncle Arnold Stromwell, and proceeded to press Stromwell on the matter as Batman. Leaving behind a bug, Batman listened in as Stromwell disowned Zucco, but he was then discovered by one of Stromwell’s guard.  In the ensuing conflict, Zucco made his mistake.  Back at Wayne Manor, Alfred convinced Bruce to give more time to Dick, and the two orphans bonded over their shared loss.

 In the present, Robin radios Batman in anger, demanding that he be allowed to be in on finally apprehending Zucco.  Batman refuses and cuts the radio link, prompting Robin to head out on the Bat-cycle.  Alfred tries to convince Robin that he should listen to Batman, but Robin states before leaving that he can’t do that this time, and maybe never again.

Review:

It’s been a long time coming, indeed too long in my view, but finally we have a Robin origin episode, and it’s a two-part story as well.  More to the point, it’s the origin arc for the original Robin.  By this time in comics, Dick Grayson had left the role of Robin behind to become Nightwing, Jason Todd had been introduced, revised via the ‘Crisis on Infinite Earths’ reboot event and killed by the Joker, and Tim Drake was the third Robin, and it would have been very easy for the series to play to the times as they had incorporating elements from the Tim Burton films.  However, the series made the smart move and stuck with the longer-standing original, and apparently the part 1 instalment resulted in the series winning an Emmy award.

 The episode is great on a few fronts.  Not only does it really honour the classic origins of Robin, but it also takes some visual cues from major works in Batman’s comic-book history.  There’s also a solid effort to keep the origin story flashbacks consistent with the series by incorporating crime boss Arnold Stromwell from a previous episode. The censorship standards for the show also forced the series to depict the deaths of the Graysons in a stylised manner that makes the scene more effective, and on top of that, you have the contrast of the strained present-day relationship between Robin and Batman, and the earlier, more caring relationship between Bruce and Dick.

 Throw in the show’s usual high-quality voice-acting and it’s an episode that I can understand the award-winning status of.  At last, we’re back to an episode where I can hand down full marks, even with a pesky part 1 in the title.  10 out of 10 and on to part 2.

Episode 33: Robin’s Reckoning (Part 2)

Plot (as given by me):

Robin attempts to follow Batman to Zucco, but Batman detects this and cuts off whatever means Robin was using to do this. Refusing to bow out, Robin reflects how he managed to find Zucco unaided once before.  Some days after Bruce and Dick began to bond with each other, Jim Gordon informed him that Zucco might be trying to skip town.  If so, it might prevent Zucco being brought to justice, but could also ensure Dick’s safety as his material witness status would mean nothing without a suspect to charge.  Overhearing this, Dick decided to take matters into his own hands.

 Running away from Wayne Manor, Dick tried to track down Zucco on the pretence of Zucco being a relation.  After saving a prostitute from her abusive pimp, and being treated to dinner at a diner to repay him, Dick learned Zucco was seen coming and going from an abandoned building nearby.  Heading to the building, Dick learned Zucco was packing to leave and tried to call the police, but accidentally tipped Zucco off to his presence.  Zucco was prevented from harming Dick by the arrival of Batman, and in the ensuing scuffle Dick fell into a channel of water.  Batman opted to save Dick over capturing Zucco, then took Dick back to the Batcave, revealing himself to be Bruce Wayne in the process.  This signalled Bruce’s intention to have Dick stay with him and become his apprentice.

 In the present, Robin cold-calls Zucco from the home of the arrested saboteur to obtain Zucco’s address.  However, Zucco is already paranoid from his run-in with Batman years ago, and when he hears noises overhead, he strafes the ceiling of his apartment with machine gun fire.  It turns out the noise was Batman, and when the gunfire causes the ceiling to collapse, the dark knight badly injures his knee upon landing.  However, Zucco’s panicked firing has made him run out of bullets, and Batman escapes under cover of a smoke bomb.

 However, Batman does not get far and is soon pursued through the abandoned boardwalk carnival nearby by Zucco and his men. Zucco, scared to insanity after several years looking over his shoulder, prepares to fire through his men on the carousel in order to get Batman, but before he can, Robin appears.  Using the Bat-cycle, he drags Zucco down to the end of the pier, where he then gains the upper hand over the gangster and begins to smack him around.

 Batman calls out to Robin to stop, causing Robin to angrily yell that Batman can’t know what he’s feeling.  However, the moment he says this, Robin realises Batman knows precisely how he feels and apologises.  As Zucco is finally taken into police custody, Robin concludes Batman tried to keep him off the Zucco case because he was worried Robin would cross the line and try to kill Zucco.  However, Batman reveals that he actually tried to keep Robin away out of fear Zucco would kill Robin.  Making amends, the two heroes head home.

Review:

Part 2 of this episode does a good job bringing part 1 to a decent, satisfying conclusion for the most part.  Like the show’s makers, however, I feel more should have been worked in showing Dick actually becoming Robin and seeing him grow up, but sadly this episode doesn’t deliver on that, and nor do any subsequent episodes.  Frankly, I think that’s a pity, and it would be nice if Warner Brothers and DC could put together a film or series set between this episode’s flashback and the present day of this show detailing the early years of this Robin.  That aside, it’s a good part 2 episode, but the lack of young Robin moments means I can’t quite give it top marks.  This time, it’s only 9 out of 10 that I’m prepared to bestow.

[stxleslyds]

Have you watched the Teen Titans animated series or Young Justice? If so, what do you think about their characterization of Dick Grayson?

And while we're at it, what about the animated movies? How does his characterization compare there?

Hi! Thank you so much for the ask!

I have to be honest, Teen Titans wasn’t a show that I was able to watch when it came out because I didn’t have cable tv yet and by the time that I had it I was actually into other TV shows, I watched a few episodes from what I believe was the last season but I didn’t really like the Titans lineup so I didn’t pay much attention to it. So, I can’t really say anything about his characterization there.

Young Justice I have watched! I believe I watched it for the first time in 2018 on Netflix. I loved the first season, it was amazing and it kinda made me want to read DC comics again. I had “taken a break” from reading DC because I was consuming another type of content, mostly MCU and Marvel Comics. I watched seasons two and three but I didn’t like them as much as the first one because I felt like there were too many characters and it overwhelmed me a little bit.

So, to answer your question, I love Young Justice’s characterization of Dick Grayson (as Robin, Nightwing, and just Dick). Although the universe where YJ is very different from the comics one, they did make an excellent job developing Dick and the other team members in the first season.

It was weird seeing Dick in the YJ team instead of the Titans one but I am glad that they did it that way because they took their time to develop Dick and then Tim as the Robins in the different seasons.

Dick not being the leader of the team was also weird but it led to so many interesting plotlines for him. I also felt that their take on Dick Grayson was very in tune with the times in which the show came out he was very tech-driven (which he used to be in comics but then they gave that characteristic to Tim and took it away from Dick) and is Bat training was shown plenty, he truly seemed like one of the most valuable assets for the team even though he was the youngest and he had no powers.

His personality felt real for his age in the show, he was funny and smart, his acrobatic skills were there. I really loved the way they handled his change of mind when it came to wanting to lead the team at all costs and wanting to become Batman in the future. That episode was wonderfully done and seeing that therapy session that Dick had still makes me feel sad for him.

He was friends with everybody and tried to make everyone feel welcome which I think is also very in tune with Dick Robin in comics. He seemed to be learning from everyone and every experience too which was also nice. The Circus episode really showed us another side of Dick, he was being protective of his first family and he was also starting to feel comfortable as a sort of co-leader of the team. He had a very deep connection with his teammates and that was also similar to his relationship in comics with the Titans.

As I said before I really couldn’t enjoy the other two seasons the same way that I did the first but the Dick Grayson that I saw in them was a really cool one, it did give me Outsiders (2003) vibes from those seasons so I am a little bit biased. But I really liked the idea of Dick and Kaldur having this secret plan that could help everyone in the end even though it might have cost them their friends. When that situation repeated itself in the third season I still sided with Dick (and the people that were on “his” team), it really felt like Dick could see the bigger picture of the problems that they were facing, I wouldn’t say that Dick puts the mission in front of everything else though, that’s Batman’s thing. Dick really just wanted everyone to be okay and he saw that people were trying to solve the problem inefficiently, which would eventually get more people hurt. He was very selfless but also realized that by doing what he did he didn’t only help to save the world but he did make some people think twice before trusting him completely.

That last scene where Dick calls everyone for a meeting and he is surprised when everyone shows up is a very Dick Grayson scene, people really understood that as a team leader Nightwing had to make some very difficult decisions so when he called, they all showed up. Bruce saying that Dick commands more respect than he realizes was so true and iconic of him.

One of my favorite episodes was “Private Security” where Dick teamed up with Will, Roy, and Jim harper, it was super fun and it also had some very interesting moments that showed how Dick was grieving the death/disappearance of his friend, and how he needed someone to tell him that he was going to be okay and that there were people who needed training and he was the best option to do it. That interaction between Dick and Will made me remember Dick and Roy’s chat at the beginning of Outsiders (2003).

Overall, I really enjoyed Dick’s characterization in that show, it respected the original material and made Dick a solid character even though he had differences from his comic counterpart.

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I have seen very few animated movies from DC that had Dick as a featured character. I watched: Under the Red Hood, Son of Batman, Batman vs Robin, Batman: Bad Blood, Teen Titans: Judas Contract, and Batman: Hush.

In those movies, Dick’s characterization hasn’t been consistent, in each movie they manage to get something right but they butcher everything else. Mostly I enjoy Dick’s interactions with people, he had a fun moment with Damian, Kory, Bruce, and Selina. But he is never the real center of these stories so they kinda throw him to the side and nerf him a bit too much.

In “Bad Blood” he was Batman to Damian’s Robin but that movie didn’t do much for their relationship. He kinda is reduced to Batman’s most loyal friend or something like that, there isn’t much depth to him or his characterization.

He really wasn’t loved or respected in these movies, “Batman vs. Robin” had the Court of Owls as the main enemies but they didn’t use Dick as a plotline, they had Damian and Bruce having a conflict instead.

“Batman: Hush” was a mess, from every point of view, Dick was done dirty in that scene in the cemetery (I can’t really remember if it was a cemetery the place where he got dosed with fear(?) gas and Selina had to save him), he is treated as if he were an unexperienced vigilante, it is very sad to see.

Also, they had this very annoying “trope” where Dick dislocated his shoulder someway, somehow in every movie. I don’t know why that was, but it happened too often.

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As you can see, I haven’t watched that much DC animated content so, from what I have seen Dick’s best characterization is the one from Young Justice, I think they did a great job mixing their own version of Dick Grayson with his comic counterpart. They really respected and worked with the original material.

But! “The Lego Batman” needs to have a special mention because this movie was a gift from the gods. This is a masterpiece, it’s Dick Grayson makes my heart melt, I adore that little Robin, he makes me happy. Bruce and Joker’s relationship is a perfect dramatization of what Batman and Joker’s relationship is in comics and I will be forever glad that DC took the initiative and made fun of themselves like that.

It is just the perfect comfort movie!

Another special mention is “Batman: Under the Red Hood” but I am not mentioning it because of Dick’s appearance there, I just think that this movie is neat and amazing and that everyone should watch it. It has Jensen Ackles voicing Jason! Best Jason Todd/Red Hood that we have ever had out of comics!

Anyway, I am sorry it took me so long to answer your ask, I hope you have a marvelous week!