#and that the culmination of that arc being to willingly give her power entirely over to someone else

[aparticularbandit]

Big battle! What is Rika's super cool thing?

Oh? She gives ALL of her power to Ryo? Which literally stripes her Biomerge Digivolution Sakuyamon down to nothing? (LITERALLY.) Just so Justimon - Ryo's Biomerge Digivolution - can grow his laser sword extra large to cut down this part of the D-Reaper? And it leaves Sakuyamon super duper weak after while the big strong man gets to go wreck stuff with his super long sword that has been made super long by taking the main female character's full power and stripping her down to nothing?

YEAH, THAT'S NOT A SUPER GROSS METAPHOR FOR ANYTHING.

UGH, I HATE IT.

[utilitycaster]

Care to share more about why you think the baileyhams and taliesin excel at character change?

Oh sure - I should note it's specifically subtle character change, not character change in general; I think everyone in the cast portrays character change beautifully and it's just a matter of how they choose to do so.

To give examples of everyone else first to hopefully illustrate that point:

Marisha and Liam tend to have Big Theatrical Moments to sort of signal the key points of the development (intentionally or not) and there tends to be a lot of formalized structure; Liam especially tends to call his intended shots through mechanics (consider Vax wearing the sign of Sarenrae, or any of the scenes in which Caleb creates/describes a new spell or goes through his components). For Keyleth, we had the very clear structure of the Aramente and her interactions with Raishan; for Beau, we had her intermittent meetings with members of the Cobalt Soul or her willingly invoking it.

Sam tends to have a big, literal division of Before and After: for Scanlan, it's the build-up to and the scathing explosion of him leaving the group and then the return; for Veth it's the change back to her own body and name. (Tary is tricky in that he had so little time and you'll see below I also can't cover Molly or even Pike properly; this observation sort of requires you're there for at least half the campaign, I think. But like. I didn't forget him so don't @ me).

I'm not actually sure for Ashley; Pike was, due to Ashley's absences, mostly a static character (and her development was heavily skewed pre-stream; it's implied her death and resurrection was a very pivotal moment for her) and Yasha's development necessarily had to be pretty late in the game and so you can make an argument either for the Sam model (pre and post Obann) or a more structured one (the Kord sequences on the boat, on Rumblecusp, and in the Blooming Grove) but we'll have to see C3.

Travis and Laura I think both tend to play it such that the big theatrical events are, rather than the signal of a start, the signal of an end to something that had been slowly building. Other than a few episodes regarding the Herd of Storms, Grog's development was mainly a slow thing over time, but it was noticeable (to the point that it was a big deal when Scanlan returned, because he had changed a decent amount), and Vex's character arc was my favorite of C1 but similarly other than a few Feywild episodes her development was a slow burn in the background, of learning to forgive and becoming more secure after a childhood of loss and deprivation. Fjord and Jester had more obvious arcs in Campaign 2 but Fjord's biggest moment, with the sword, was the start of formally becoming a paladin but felt more like the culmination of his entire slow breakdown over two arcs - Pirates, as he learned the truth about his powers, and Xhorhas, as he faced the pressure of Uk'otoa. The biggest development came before, and throwing away the sword represented the finality of that change. Jester's experience with Artagan during Traveler Con was also very much a sign that she had figured out where she stood in terms of that relationship after a lot of internal turmoil starting when he revealed his true identity. Like, for them, the theatrical moments exist but they feel less tied to a formal thing. (I think this is also enhanced by the fact that Fjord, Vex, and Jester all have, yet again, the "if I showed you vulnerability no I didn't" trait coupled with a good amount of charm, and Grog is a truly tough case in that much as I say I'm intimidated by playing a druid I am far, far more intimidated by the idea of having to play any character with INT 6 for an entire campaign.)

Taliesin is a weird case in that Percy has the most obvious Character Focused Arc in the history of the show (to the point where I think fans kind of forget that like...this is not actually the norm, and really no one else has had anything quite like it across either campaign) but Percy is still a huge mess afterwards, so it is definitely a start...but then there's no formal structure to the rest of it, either, it's just sort of slowly simmering along in the background for the rest of the campaign and he's still like. kind of an asshole (affectionate and honorific) by the end. But then there's Caduceus, who is much closer to the Grog and Vex model of C1 (ie, only a few true episodes in focus but a full character arc) which is why Taliesin also gets the subtle change recognition.

(What's really funny to me is that both Molly and Caduceus were explicitly created with the intent of "this person has no intention of changing" but Caduceus ends up being forced to change in really fascinating ways - especially after rescuing his family and especially during the final arcs, but a little bit before as well - and Molly likely would have been in the same situation once he had to reckon with Lucien.)

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

#1: Chloe’s “Damnation Arc” That Was Totally Planned From the Start

Time to talk about one of the most infuriating anecdotes of Astruc, and it shows how chaotic the production of Miraculous Ladybug is.

Chloe Bourgeois the resident mean girl you see in a lot of cartoons and shows with a school setting in general. She's the daughter of the mayor of Paris, so she tends to get her way a lot. And her callous personality has left several people emotionally vulnerable, which is how Hawkmoth creates his minions of the week, Akumas. Of the 26 Akumas in the first season, Chloe has contributed to 12 of them becoming akumatized through bullying, insulting, and publicity humiliating them.

In the first season, Chloe was the kind of character who you loved to hate. She was someone who served as a minor threat in the civilian lives of the main characters, and she would usually get her comeuppance at the end of the episode.

There was effort into giving Chloe character development, don't get me wrong, with six episodes between Seasons 2 and 3 dedicated to it. But for every moment of heroism Chloe got, it was always negated by the end, having her go back to her old self and learning nothing in the process. This was because of a strange idea Astruc has. For some reason, he wants the status quo to be the same so new viewers can jump in at any time. While that may work for a show like SpongeBob SquarePants or The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, but not for a story driven show like Miraculous Ladybug. So Chloe's “character development” was an unfortunate case of one step forward, two steps back. This ended up disappointing fans, who were really hoping for Chloe to get a proper redemption arc. What's important to remember was that Astruc claimed that he planned for everything that's about to happen from the start, when you'll see that it couldn't be further from the truth.

Even after getting an entire trilogy of episodes focusing on her “development”, Chloe didn't really grow as a person. The only thing that changed was Ladybug would occasionally loan her the Bee Miraculous because of how good she is as Queen Bee. They tried mixing things up in Season 3 when Ladybug said she couldn't be Queen Bee anymore because her identity was public and it would be too dangerous... rather than how rude she is to everyone she meets, and is overall irresponsible with her powers (In her first appearance, she sabotaged a train so she could pull a Syndrome and save it herself, and it was quickly swept under the metaphorical rug). So throughout the third season, we'd get snippets of Chloe saying “Queen Bee could handle this if you let her!” whenever she was on screen. This culminated in the season finale, where she got fed up of waiting, and willingly sided with Hawkmoth to get back at Ladybug.

And when fans were naturally miffed at all this time wasted on a character arc that went absolutely nowhere, guess how Astruc responded?

I find it ironic that Astruc is saying fans shouldn't insult the writing team or other fans because they didn't like the twist... while insulting fans who didn't like the way Chloe's character arc went. Astruc could have easily turned down the idea of a Chloe redemption arc, or find some way to compromise instead of whatever we got. But even if he didn't, why does he have to be so callous about it?

Even if you don't like Chloe, this still screams bad writing. Why focus so much on a character's development so much if you're going to just throw it out the window? There were several times where Marinette was scolded for saying she couldn't change, and that she needed to see the good in Chloe, and now you're just turning back on it? If she was irredeemable the whole time, why dedicate so much time to her “damnation arc”, as Astruc puts it? Why not focus on getting to know other characters and their relevance to the story like Master Fu? Why not focus on writing more interactions between Marinette and Adrien? You know, the two leads whose relationship is the main focus of the show?

And it wasn't just here. Before the season finale, whenever people talked about how they loved Chloe and fanfics showing her growing as a person, Astruc just shut them down. If someone tries to reason with Astruc the importance of being kind to others, he'll just say something like “That doesn't matter, Chloe sucks!” Because that's a good lesson to teach kids, right? People can never change, so why bother?

It's not just those characters either. The last decade we got characters like Weiss Schnee, Pacifica Northwest, and Amity Blight. These were all mean girls who weren't just one-note caricatures of bullies, but characters who actually grew as we got to know them the longer their shows went on.

The thing is, Chloe has all the pieces necessary for a redemption arc, and there are fans and writers alike who want her to get a proper one. But because of Astruc's own stubborn beliefs, he refuses to let anything interesting happen. Change is possible, some of the most interesting characters in fiction are those who genuinely want to be better (Just take a look at all those examples I used earlier, and I'll show more if I need to).

And when someone pointed out that character development is a thing?

I mean, it's not like there was any evidence in the show that made it look like Chloe was trying to be a better person—OH WAIT.

And then, that same person pointed out the redundancy of having two mean girls to antagonize Marinette in her civilian life, relying on the stereotype that all girls do is fight over cute boys instead of actually finishing the redemption arc the writers set up, as well as showing a screenshot of a Tumblr post that perfectly summarizes my feelings on Chloe's character development.

What does Astruc have to say in response to these valid criticisms? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

That's literally all he said to this person. He didn't refute anything that person said, he didn't defend any of his writing choices, he basically plugged his fingers and his ears, and went “LALALALALALA, I'm not listening! I'm not listening!” Dude, you chose to open this Twitter account and take questions, so expect a little criticism thrown your way. But what should I know, according to him, he already planned this for years!

But the main question remains: If you didn't want Chloe to develop or grow as a person, Astruc, why did you even get our hopes up in the first place?

[elenathehun]

Watching the Clone Wars, part 7

Well, this is a better batch of episodes than last time, solely due to not having to actually skip an episode because it was too awful to watch.  With that said, click on keep reading to see reviews of "Brain Invaders", "Grievous Intrigue", "The Deserter", "Lightsaber Lost", "The Mandalore Plot", "Voyage of Temptation", and "Duchess of Mandalore".

"Brain Invaders" (2x08)

I'd rate this as above-average.  I am not really into horror as a genre, as I previously noted, so I was pretty grossed out by the brain worms.  However, it was a pretty nice Ahsoka and Barriss episode, although I think it's a bit weird that four Jedi Knights/Masters are necessary to interrogate Poggle. 

Anyway, it's not an episode of The Clone Wars without some unexpected graphic clone violence.  I don't blame Ahsoka or Barris for killing poor Trap - I even think this was well-written and conveyed the desperation of their situation well - but good god, it was startling.  Also tense: that final approach to the medical station.

Not good: Kit Fisto entering a ship that's infested with brain worms with no PPE.  C'mon, man, I know your headtails are majestic, but keep it covered up!  Also not super great: Anakin and Ahsoka's little talk at then end.  A lot of their interaction just feels forced.  I honestly feel like this should have been a dialogue of some kind between Ahsoka and Barriss.

"Grievous Intrigue" (2x09)

Sort of a meh episode.  I understand Eeth Koth is a bit of a bad-ass in the comics, and that does sort of carry over in this episode, but mostly it just seems like a vehicle for various Jedi Masters to quip while crossing blades with this somewhat delightful murder-cyborg.  Obi-Wan gives a furious monologue to Grievous, which rings a bit hollow since the clone army has had precious little screen-time (at least relatively speaking) to exhibit their loyalty or spirit.

Shout-out to Cody and those 212th soldiers dog-piling Grievous.  If only you'd had a lightsaber, Cody, you probably could have killed him right then and there.  And if the writers let you and your fellows out of the background more often, Obi-Wan's speech would have rung more true at the time this episode aired.

"The Deserter" (2x10)

I struggled with accurately summarizing why this episode left me cold.  After all, the focus is split between Rex and the pursuit of Grievous, and I love most of the clone-centric episodes I've seen thus far.  But after some thought, I realized this episode felt like the culmination of a character arc that never actually occurred for Rex, at least on-screen.  After all, this episode is only the third time he's been promoted to something more than the token Clone Character Who Doesn't Die At The End - the previous two episodes I thought were legitimately Rex-centric were Season One's "Rookies" and "The Hidden Enemy".  We still barely know the guy, but in this episode we watch him wrestle with doubt about his role and reason for existence when faced with a fellow clone who's made radically different choices than he has, before triumphantly stating his place is with the army.  This feels like it would be a great episode, if only we were more attached to the character. Writers have to build-up to those kind of moments, or they ring false.

Anyway, is it just me or is Obi-Wan getting a little angry in this episode?

"Lightsaber Lost" (2x11)

I wasn't expecting much from this episode, but it was actually very good.  Aside from the annoying Cad Bane arc at the beginning of the season, the Ahsoka episodes have been improving a lot this season - possibly because she's been separated from Anakin for a lot of them.  Losing a lightsaber feels like the sort of problem a Padawan might face, and the solution feels like the sort of thing an impatient teenager would resort to.  Tera Sinube is a gem - I am always a sucker for the elderly teaching the next generation, and he does it so well!  The animation was well done too, especially in the chase scenes. 

I've been ragging on TCW for it's lack of interconnectivity between episodes and episode arcs, but this is a stand-alone episode done right: it focuses on what a secondary character (yes, I know she's supposed to be a main character, but she doesn't feel like it quite yet), allows them to learn a lesson that develops their characters in an organic way, and reverberates through future episodes (I hope!).

"The Mandalore Plot", "Voyage of Temptation", and "Duchess of Mandalore" (2x12 -2x14)

Oof.  So, this was the arc that actually made me quit watching TCW the first time around.  I am very lukewarm on Mandalorians in general, so that wasn't great.  But aside from that, and from the well-attested issue of everyone on Mandalore looking like a Storm Front fantasy, this arc exhibits the same structural writing defects the entire show has shown far - and honestly, life is too short to watch bad TV.  At this point, I know this main issue will never be corrected in the entire show run, so I can accept it and push through in the name of completionism and writing research, but at the time I wasn't active in fandom and it was enormously easy to just stop watching and move onto other, better, shows and books.

Now, I thought long and hard about how to review these episodes, but I think it's useful in this case to interview them as a singular block instead of individual episodes.  The story is largely cohesive, if a bit strained. It is essentially Palpatine's PT plot writ small: he wants to take over Mandalore (a reason is never really explicated in the actual story, so who knows why), and he's doing it by essentially creating a false war between the CIS proxies, Death Watch, and the Republic proxy, which is Duchess Satine.  If all goes according to plan, Satine will be shown as ineffectual and unable to rule her people, and the GAR can occupy Mandalore for reasons of "public safety".  This will inflame the Mandalorians, who aren't part of the Republic and don't want to be, and send them rushing in the arms of the CIS-allied Death Watch, starting a cycle of radicalization and violence which will end (at least from Palpatine's POV) with Mandalore firmly in his grasp, and all potential opposition killed in the Civil War he engineered.   

As enormously stupid as the whole plot sounds, it's a valid historical tactic for imperial powers looking to expand.  And that's lead us the the primary flaw of this story: The Jedi are the Bad Guys.  Just ignore the tangled mess of Mandalorian canon, retcons, and expanded universe, past and present - in the show itself, they are presented as a smaller, weaker neighbor-state, and the Jedi are acting as agents of an expansionary military power, interfering with their internal politics specifically for the purpose of a soft invasion.  And that's an interesting story!  But that story is deliberately obfuscated and hobbled because the writers and producers of TCW were and are ever-so-concerned with making the Jedi as sympathetic as possible, even in situations where they shouldn't be.

Part of that hobbling is Satine's character.  Satine is badly written, but she's badly written in a very specific way that has been common to most of the non-CIS political antagonists the show has presented thus far.  Satine's most interesting characteristic is that she doesn't want to involve Mandalore with the war - and who can blame her?  The Republic and the CIS have nothing to offer to her or her people.  The only thing that will happen is the exploitation of Mandalore's natural resources (at best) or the destruction of her people, caught between two Great Powers who obviously don't care for her people's struggle.  That's an interesting character, right?  A POV we haven't seen in this show so far, which has consistently been from the Jedi POV, which is pretty firmly in the CIS = monsters and Republic = assholes (but democratic assholes!) camp.

But it's a POV that is pretty uncomplimentary of the Jedi role in this war, which means Satine must be crippled by an obnoxious belief in pacifism, like the unlikably-written Lurmen in season one, and also weighted down by a personal connection to an avatar of the Republic, like Senator Farr and his "family friendship" with Padme overcoming the fact that his people are starving and getting no support from the Republic.  I have heard people argue that TCW, written as it was in the late 2000s, is reacting against the excesses of the War on Terror.  I am less than convinced, mostly because every single anti-war character is reduced to a flat caricature of an annoying pacifist that can be safely defeated by the ever-so-kind warrior monks in the space of an episode or two before being cast aside for the next adventure. 

Because Satine's motivations are poorly written, her actions don't make a lick of sense. In "The Mandalore Plot", she's clearly escorting Obi-Wan around under duress - but in "Voyage of Temptation", she's apparently going with the Senators willingly to the Coruscant, to essentially beg the Senate to not invade.  Why not write her as an unwilling "guest" of the Republic, invited without recourse to defend her people's sovereignty?  Well, that would show Obi-Wan in a very unflattering light, wouldn't it?  But in "Duchess of Mandalore" she's back to being a prisoner in everything but name, escaping custody to receive an unaltered copy of her dead minister's speech.  

Now, Obi-Wan helps her at that point...but it's clearly due to some poorly-written romantic feelings.  I am not interested in any Padme/Anakin parallels, mostly because I find it incredibly tedious and honestly not helpful in exploring Anakin's Leap into the Dark Side.  This story is a gigantic missed opportunity to show the Jedi (or at least, a representative of the Jedi) wrestle with their roles as avatars of the republic, when the republic is so obviously manufacturing a reason to invade Mandalore.  Palpatine is obviously orchestrating this whole thing, but he still (at this point in the show) requires the consent of the Senate to essentially annex more territory - and the Senate is perfectly happy to give him that consent, by the way.  There is a fantastic story on the Jedi side about the clash of ideals vs realities, and the writers totally side-stepped it.

But pulling the focus out a little further, that has actually been par for the course for most of the Obi-Wan stories of season 2.  He's been consistently more and more irritated about the war as the season has gone on, and made some off-hand comments about the ungratefulness of the Republic populace that, in the hands of a more competent writer, could have been a multi-season character arc about loss of faith in fallible human institutions, which would dovetail pretty well with his characterization in both RotS and ANH.  Instead, his character remains the static wise-cracking Good Guy; Satine is the Designated Love Interest, unable to develop along more interesting and independent lines; and this arc falls deeply flat as a result.  

They're not the only characters who are horribly underwritten.  I mean, here we are at the end of Season 2, and have we yet seen a sympathetic CIS character, or an accounting of how Palpatine was able to take advantage of already extant fractures in the Republic to create a shadowy cabal dedicated to tearing it apart?  No.  It's all war crimes and evil laughter so far.  The Good Guys always win (until they don't), the bad guys are always Very Bad, and there are no shades of gray in this massive galaxy.  Again, ignoring the complicated Mandalorian backstory, Death Watch is extremely under-baked as villains.  There could have been a fascinating interplay between Satine and Pre about their different visions for their people's future, but just as Satine is a flat Pacifist caricature, Pre is a dull Terrorist caricature.

I have to give a special mention to the horrible Love Confession of "Voyage of Temptation".  This is the episode where Satine is written most consistently as Peak Pacifist.  If she had instead been written as anti-war (but not necessarily a philosophical pacifist), her escape from Tal Merrik would have been a great inversion of that trope - and in fact, I thought it was at first, when she "confessed", and then had to make an annoyed face when Obi-Wan didn't immediately play along.  Instead, they played it straight, and I've never felt more simpatico with a villain than when Tal Merrik complained about their timing.  That fact that Satine's "pacifism" is then used as an excuse for Obi-Wan and Satine to hesitate to kill a terrorist, leading Anakin to kill him...like, c'mon.  I get it, the writers want to show his fall to the dark side, you gotta play the ominous theme music, but is this really a particularly evil act by Anakin?  I'm gonna be honest, if a cop or an armed civilian kills a mass shooter, no one is castigating them for doing so, but instead congratulating them for stopping a murderer from killing again.

Final note and the only one that explicitly addresses the Mandalorian elephant in the room: I hate the Darksaber.  Like, I know we all gave KJA shit for the original Darksaber novel, but the fact that Filoni (or Lucas?) repurposed the name for a SPECIAL MANDALORIAN LIGHTSABER fills me with intense rage.  They're fucking gun knights, you coward, stop inserting your weird Arthurian hard-on into my western samurai sci-fi pastiche.

And that's it for this batch of episodes.  Up next: Boba Fett makes his first appearance in our chronological viewing, and we return to Mandalore a second time, much to my sorrow. 

[wak-after-dark]

Still not able to come up with an argument about the Epilogue treating Gamzee (the murderous corpse molester) better than Jade (sat around for 3 years with depression only to have a dog dick and then be abandoned by her friends) huh? Guess you're just an idiot and willingly sucking Hussie's dick for a job at Whatpumpkin down the line. Maybe write some incest porn like IPDG and you'll get hired.

Wow get a load of this guy.

Okay I should probably just delete your comments and not give you the time of day, but you’ve been periodically sending me this kind of ask, and I really have to ask, do you really, really believe you’re someone with some sort of Moral High Ground right now? Like I’m not even defending the Epilogues as masterpieces or trying to shove them down people’s throats. I am literally just enjoying the content the WP Team put out and talking about it, and you come to my Inbox, to spew this accusatory nonsense and flinging insults. If you can’t read the Epilogues in a positive manner, and think they’re dogshit, sure, go ahead, but you’re like, trying to act like I’m some sort of brainwashed sheep and you’re trying to make me see the light. Also “Still not able to come up with an argument“ very passive-aggressive there, I have talked about the Epilogues, my opinions and takes on them, and how I feel about the way they deal with characters at LARGE here, if you haven’t bothered to look for the info, and the several responses to some of your asks, then don’t blame me for it. But sure. Let me talk about every single point you JUST mentioned here like some sort of big Masterpost, and when you don’t agree with my point either way, stop fucking harassing me on Anon, seriously you alone have been making me consider turning anon off entirely, which all things considered may just be the healthiest option I could consider, but here I am!

Still not able to come up with an argument about the Epilogue treating Gamzee (the murderous corpse molester) better than Jade (sat around for 3 years with depression only to have a dog dick and then be abandoned by her friends) huh?

Okay let’s begin with Homestuck proper. Gamzee is a Villain. He’s framed as such, people have constantly shown backlash against his character because he’s got fans that would like to see him redeemed, since a good chunk of his story happens with him brainwashed or mind-altered in some sort, but every time he’s shown to go back to doing awful things and killing people. He abuses Terezi, kills Karkat, and gets killed by Kanaya in return in one Timeline, and in another he gets locked up in a fridge, ends up in Caliborn’s planet, and trying to serve his Lord just gets beaten up, shot, left half-dead, until his final appearance in which he gets cut in half and absorbed into Lord English. Then, the Epilogues happen, and he becomes the butt of a joke about undeserved redemption arcs. His very existence in Candy is a joke that he’s not worth redeeming, actually, but tries to force himself to ‘seem’ like he has, despite ruining Dirk’s funeral, making Jake and Tavros’ lives miserable, supporting a Fascist ruler, taking advantage of a potential minor, and it all ends up with him being choked, killed, and his corpse being used as a Weekend at Bernie’s joke. Like... Is that really what you consider ‘good treatment of a character’? He gets away with a lot of bullshit, but he’s like. Constantly, and consistently, shown to be unpleasant, gross and awful. Like. He’s an awful person, and a comic relief, that does fucked up shit for most of his appearance, and I am not sure how any of this can be read in any sort of positive light. I’ve seen Gamzee fans MAD at how much he gets shat on.

Meanwhile, let’s take Jade. A huge theme of her character, sadly, is loneliness and isolation. I dislike that, like many Jade fans. She’s forced into depressingly helpless situations where she lacks agency or control over her own body, or the situation she’s in, and it’s shown affecting her greatly. I want my girl to be happy as well. So when the Epilogues came, and had her getting Callie-possessed, that was bad, it was like, AGAIN she gets the shaft. I want her to be happy and do what she wants to do and be badass with her powers! But- Oh wait, none of that is what you’re complaining about!!! You keep insisting on the Dog Dick instead of any of the genuinely heartbreaking things that happen to her. Jade has a dog dick. It is mentioned once in the entire Epilogues. It mildly affects her desire to have a child with Dave, but she doesn’t even shown herself that broken up about it, and had been looking about potential alternatives, even having Rose as a surrogate. There’s not a single joke made in the Epilogues about her HAVING a dog dick, nor any sort of isolation that happens as a product of her genitalia. Is it a weird choice to canonize that headcanon? Yeah! It kind of is! But this is also a reality where Obama and Dirk make out. And if someone is uncomfortable about Jade having a dog dick, or doesn’t like her being more openly sexual, then that’s fine!!! If they have a transphobic read on Jade, that’s fine!!! You can dislike it, and Homestuck, and the Epilogues, and the writers! But I, as a trans woman myself, and one who’s horny on main a lot of the time, liked the freedom Jade expressed to just do whatever she wanted with new partners on Earth C, and her seeming acceptance and lack of conflict at just, having junk. She does fuck up with Dave and Karkat, because she pushes them a bit too hard, specially Karkat, trying to use the Quadrant System to insert herself in a Black relationship. In Candy, this culminates with political tensions breaking Karkat away from the triad, which is bad for everyone involved. But in Meat, Jade states that they can tell her to just stop and she will, because she genuinely likes both Karkat and Dave, but their feelings are too deeply bottled and complex to just come to light. Does this put some tension in her relationship with them? Yeah! Does this ISOLATE her from her friends? No! Karkat and Dave DO still wanna hang out with her even if she’s a bit too much. John and Jade apparently chat online a bunch, and Jake seemed to have a good relationship with Jade before the whole Jane thing. She is close enough with Rose and Kanaya that Rose considered the surrogate mother thing. She has friends and ties! The major things that happen to isolate her is, Karkat leaving- Caused by Jane’s rise to power- Dave dying- Caused by Ultimate Self Timeline Shenanigans- And being possessed by Callie- All things outside of her control. I want her to get her agency back, but beyond that, her, as a person on Earth C, was not abandoned by her friends, and your obsession over her dog dick as a root of her issues and the bad stuff that happens to her says more about you than about the Epilogues in my opinion.

Guess you're just an idiot and willingly sucking Hussie's dick for a job at Whatpumpkin down the line. Maybe write some incest porn like IPDG and you'll get hired.

You know what? Yeah I would love to have a role at WhatPumpkin. Because I’ve seen the people working at it do other things, and I’ve seen their passion for Homestuck. The people currently doing Homestuck love Homestuck, and this is not up for fucking debate. As for the incest porn thing? Fuck you. Fuck you, fuck you, and a thousand fucking times fuck you. Once again, trying to get some stupid moral high ground mentioning incest. “Oh look at me, I am criticizing someone for something they wrote years ago”, is how you actually sound, and that’s only on the surface. V from Homestuck was never confirmed to be ipgd. V got harassed, and ‘doxxed’ by dubious sources and, I believe, Kiwifarms shit was going on at that time, so that was extremely shady and shitty. And the result of them being equated ended with ipgd being told to kill themself because of old fic they’d written, which, GUESS WHAT, was actually a critic to the way Incest was extremely popular in Fanfic back then, written by ipgd themself, a god damn survivor of that same bullshit they wrote about!!! Congratulations! THAT is the kind of bullshit people like you pull. You just cling to some idea of what’s right and wrong, and end up hurting real people that’ve gone through real shit, instead of considering nuance to your actions and thinking that, HMM, PERHAPS I SHOULD NOT HARASS SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE THEY DID SOMETHING I DON’T LIKE OR HAVE AN OPINION I DON’T AGREE WITH! But nah, let’s go send death threats to people we don’t like, riiiiiiight????

My fandom wish for homestuck 2 is the characters are treated with respect but since every single one of the new authors hate women and only want dirk and jake as well as Dave and Karkat to fuck on screen while Vriska gets comphet child raped by gamzee why bother lol.

Like, I don’t even know what to say. Have you seen like... The rest of the work the WP Team is doing with Homestuck stuff? Addressing actual issues? Doing right by the characters? Acknowledging their fucked up stuff while also showing them in positive lights? A good chunk of the Team, too, is queer? Like if they were all cis straight dudes I could see your complaint but they just. Aren’t??? At all???? Even Taz, who’s probably the biggest Dirk-Jake fan around, absolutely wants the best for other characters, yes, Jade and Rose included, you are just too jaded and blinded by your perception of the Epilogues. Vriska and Gamzee... Yeah that’s iffy. I am not going to defend that, whether it was a mistake with the ages or it was just Gamzee being more awful, that was extremely nasty. There’s also like, suicide and abuse and dictatorship in the Epilogues though. All of this shit that happens is awful, but also it’s not PROMOTING it or saying it’s a good thing? It’s... Fucked up. Comphet though, I dooooooooo want to elaborate on that, because, while I do like the reading of Vriska as being more into women, she does show a near-consistent fascination for Nic Cage and, then, ARquius as someone with a similar aesthetic? Like don’t get me wrong, Vris-Rezi is absolutely the way to go and the healthy thing for Vriska, but also I am not 100% sure if you can gloss over every single one of her relationships with guys as Comphet? (Compbi? Since it’s Trolls) Not to say it justifies anything with Gamzee, that was just nasty. But I feel there’s nuance to talk about Vriska’s sexuality.

Hussie doesn't like his fans or care about Homestuck, how you can read the Epilogue and say the opposite it honestly insane and a complete bold faced lie. Any author that cares about their work would read someone demanding a character be given a dog dick and say no. Any author who cares about their work and their fans wouldn't have released such a purposely bad and painful epilogue and then demand payment for a resolution. Just give up. That's the moral of Homestuck. Give up. It's pointless.

Nah man, you’re just jaded and hurt and projecting. Hussie and the WP Team love Homestuck. It would’ve been so fucking easy to just stop doing Homestuck and move onto something, not even release an Epilogue. It’s like when Homestuck ended. People accused Hussie of a rushed ending with Act 7 back in the day, of disliking Homestuck and the Fans, of having just wrapped it up quickly, but like... If you want to wrap Homestuck up quickly... There were a million fan theories and endings out around that would’ve been so much simpler, easier and basic than what we got. The fact we got Act 7 and all it entailed, the shit the characters go through the Epilogues, of course a lot of awful shit happens, but like... Precisely? If you’re tired of doing something, you just wrap things up. You don’t set up new plot points and mess with the characters and push a new narrative outlook on something. This is the work of an experimental team that still do love the content and characters. Again, you return to the fucking Dog Cock like it’s the biggest sin the Epilogues commit. You haven’t even mentioned Jane’s fascism a single time, but you’ve mentioned Jade’s Dog Fucking Cock like fucking twenty times. Who the fuck cares about what sort of junk Jade has, the Epilogues themselves barely even care, it’s mentioned in the passing and it hardly affects a THING at all. You ask me how I can ‘read the Epilogues and see the opposite of what they say’, and I ask you the exact same thing, because despite all the awful things that happen, Rose and Kanaya keep fighting against tyranny in Candy. Kanaya realizes she’s been brainwashed and chases after Rose because she’s NOT giving up on her wife. Roxy explores their gender identity and finds new things about themself. Karkat gets to live his rebel leader dreams in one Timeline, although with a bitter split from Dave, but ends up together in a proper relationship in Meat. John’s arc in Candy about feeling isolated from a world that seems fake, before realizing his nihilism has hurt the people he cares about and wanting to fix it. Jake’s morale of ‘better late than never’, working up the courage to take Tavros away from Jane- And in HS^2, working as a double-agent trying to sabotage Jane from within? Jane’s been shown at her worst in candy, but in Meat she’s shown to still be redeemable, and that’s exactly what the team’s aiming to do, too.

Like... I can see all the bad stuff that happens. And I find the reactions of the characters to these awful situations are interesting, and the political conflict among friends and the pushing forward in such a dark situation, resonates with me, personally, and some of my own experiences? Not to say, the Epilogues are a Game Over scenario? They are a low point. HS^2 sets up to be the high point. Like... When Game Over happened, a lot of people were like “Welp, Hussie just killed everyone, lol, guess he just got tired of Homestuck”, despite the Retcon Powers being there as the obvious solution. Epilogues, lots of shit happen, and similarly there’s still like a hundred ways to build up from there to a satisfactory resolution? Storytelling can have low points you know. It hurts when it’s characters you care about, duh, specially when it plays into the weaknesses they already acknowledged but fell into again despite themselves. I see why so many people would dislike them and take a more negative vibe from them than they actually convey. But I am still baffled as to why people like you feel entitled to shit on the WP Team and send harassment and insults to people who do enjoy them. You’re not helping anything. You’re not doing anything good. You’re just being a dick.

As for the “demand a payment for a resolution”, they didn’t demand anything? I will be the first one to say that I don’t like the Extra Bonus for 5 bucks, and think it would be better if the Bonus got released like, a month or two after it has for Patrons, an ‘early access’ scenario like I do with my Patreon. And I hope they change this. But aside from that??? The Patreon is optional to support the creators because, it’s not just Hussie, it’s a big team, and they’re also using the Patreon to help them with other projects like Pesterquest and Hiveswap, because we live in a capitalistic hell world and need money to be able to pursue passion projects. The main updates every month- And twice a month starting February- Are completely free for people to read, still, the paywalled content still circulates around the community despite being paywalled, and other paid projects like, Pesterchum, for their scope and the amount of fun they’ve given me, they’re super cheap and worth it.

You ask me how I can ‘see the opposite the Epilogues say’, you tell me that I am an ‘idiot sucking Hussie’s dick for a job at WP’, you act like I am scum and brainwashed and there’s literally no reason why I should ever like something you don’t.

You know what I am though? I am happy and excited about the things I’ve been given! I am happy with the representation I’ve seen the Team push lately. I’m happy with the way the characters have been treated in Pesterquest and have high hopes for HS^2. And I am interested in the events of the Epilogues, while acknowledging that of course a lot of fucked up shit happened in them.

Back when the Epilogues happening and I was reading them, I was reading Candy at like 4 AM and was LOVING the fucked up-ness of the Timeline and wondering what may happen in Meat. I got a PM from a friend asking me to make a channel in a server I’m in, to quarantine Epilogues Discourse, and was genuinely confused as to why there was Discourse going on. I went through the rest of Candy and Meat with some dread waiting for some ball to drop and something to turn really controversial, and I finished them still enjoying them? Obviously there was a lot of awful shit. Obviously there was a lot of things people wouldn’t like. Obviously they were tales that likely alienated a chunk of the Fandom that was looking for a happy ending. But honestly, the unbridled fury and subsequent harassment of people over them is just plain embarrassing. It was confusing then, and it’s even more confusing now, well over half a year since their release, and still sending random Tumblr Blogs this kind of bullshit.

So there you go! All of your questions and your bullshit, answered! Now let’s get this out of the way: You’re not going to like my answer, you’re not going to agree with a majority of what I just said, you’re not going to CARE about any of what I just said. Spare me the fucking asks and anon hate. Just move on and do something productive with your time.

[formerlyrunephoenix6769]

Catra: Journey to Redemption.

(Long post and spoilers for Season 1 SPOP)

In the run up to the release of ‘She-Ra: Princesses of Power.’ season 2 on April 26th 2019, I have been seeing lots of posts about our resident, ‘misguided; villain and all around badass who knows damn well how to rock a suit. 

Yes, of course, I am talking about Catra!

The nature of the posts I have been seeing have all had a similar vein or sentiment. 

“Give Catra her redemption arc.”  or  “Start Catra’s redemption arc.” 

I am just as hopeful as the the next person for Catra to have a redemption arc, if that is in fact what Noelle Stevenson and the rest of the team have planned for the character. But one thing I will say, is ‘patience’ and a small warning to be prepared,  

Catra is going to get much worse before she can even begin to get better! 

Catra could not possibly even begin to start on a path of redemption by the end of S2 because at the end of S1, she hasnt even begun to explore the full depths of her villainy.  (Being we dont know exactly how many seasons are planned, or what the overall narrative end goal is when it comes to the final conflict and Good triumphing over Evil, much of this is speculative. 

We can however use Avatar Last Airbender and the industry standard of best Redemption Arc ever, in all mediums, Zuko, and their timeline, which I think Noelle Stevenson said in an interview that if a redemption arc was to occur, that they would like to do something that could stand next to Zuko’s redemption arc. 

I will also be using Joseph Campbell’s Hero With a Thousand Faces, and his hero’s journey map as a resource but try implement it for villains)  

If you would like to take a look at my thoughts on redemption arcs in general the feel free to check out the link below. 

https://formerlyrunephoenix6769.tumblr.com/post/182640410231/are-all-villains-redeemable

I’ll be covering similar sentiments here. 

Ok first. 

TIMELINE:. 

ATLAB is only 3 BOOKs long, however the number of episodes, 61 over all, containing 20 minimum in each Book is far more than SPOP’s standard 13, meaning that technically Zuko’s redemption arc played out over just under 6 SPOP seasons, meaning that Zuko’s penultimate episodes, detrimental to his redemption arc, ‘Blue Spirit’ episode 13 in Book 1 and ‘Zuko Alone’  Episode 7 of Book 2, didnt technically take place until till the end of season 1 and half way through season 3 ... going off an SPOP standard time. 

Meaning there was over a season and a half between Zuko doing something right for the wrong reasons and also then moving off to really begin the start of his redemption arc in earnest, which he continues to struggle with right the way into Book 3 ( season 5/6)  

The difference here, I would also like to point out is that Zuko at the very beginning of ATLAB is already technically way ahead of Catra due to him being physically away from his ‘abuser’ and direct control of the life long indoctrination. He also has one up on Catra at this point as he has a ‘Mentor/Guide’ helping to facilitate the transition and help him see the error of his ways.

Technically, this puts Zuko’s character development on the road to redemption (OTRTR)  at least ONE season ahead of Catra. Meaning that his moment of ‘doing something right for the wrong reasons’ in ‘Zuko Alone.’ does not take place until at least the end of season 2, SPOP standard time! 

In other words... 

It's going to take some time for a pussy riot to manifest.

Taking this into account. 

SIMILARITIES AND DIFFERENCES. 

We can not continue without addressing the fact that there are many similarities and differences between the supposed ‘villains’. 

Both were the Scape Goat to a favoured Golden Child yet their interactions with the ‘Gold Child’ are vastly different. 

For Zuko, Azula was an antagonist. For Catra, Adora was an ally. 

Both suffered abuse from their primary caregiver, both were belittled and chastised for supposedly being ‘lesser’. However the fundamental difference is their reactions, Zuko continued to attempt to receive his Father’s favour, whilst Catra, on the surface didn't care, resulting in acting rebelliously. 

Both have issues surrounding self worth and how they express it is vastly different. 

Zuko is hugely unaware of his ‘Empire’s’ indoctrination and the imperialistic rule, believing the propaganda he was raised with. 

Whilst Catra is fully aware of the Horde and its intentions. 

And I think this is worthy of note!

Their ‘villainy’ and motivations are seated in entirely different places. 

Zuko starts out  wishing to ‘reclaim his honour’, prove his worth in his father’s eyes, and reclaim his birthright as the heir to the Fire Nation throne, in the words of his sister,

  It is only as he travels over the next SPOP SDT, 4 seasons that he realises his true purpose. 

Catra, is aware the Horde is evil, is given an opportunity to leave, but chooses not to, instead she willingly sets herself on a dark path to gain power and prove her self worth to everyone around her, esp her abuser, step mom of the year, Shadow Weaver,

Thus setting up the whole shenanigans of SPOP season 1.  

CONFLICT. 

As I covered in my previous post in the link above, a redemption arc cannot occur without showing that the ‘villain’ is conflicted. 

A redemption should be a slow burn, from starting point of why/how they are villains,  also showing the seeds of discontent, inner conflict, conflict of their actions, conflict of their ideals,  whether indoctrinated/learned/or their own misguided musings, then later a larger amount of focus should be placed on how they have overcome that villainy and change of perspective culminating with coming full circle.

What makes Zuko’s particular redemption arc so good is the work that goes into showing this. The time, the attention to detail, not being shied away from by the writers, that  intentionally trickles down and infuses with the character’s essence of being. 

Yes, Catra is conflicted about her relationship with Adora and what Adora means to her. 

This conflict about her and Adora’s relationship was partially resolved with Catra taking Adora’s motivations the wrong way, due to her own issues surrounding her self worth. 

This ‘resolution’ only serves to push Catra further down the a dark path.

But we have yet to see Catra conflicted about her actions and dont expect to see that happen until after we see her fully embrace her villainy, which by the end of S1, she was nowhere near close to doing. (See Triggers and Turning points)

Meaning that “Catra Alone”  might not even occur until midway S3  and actual beginnings of feeling conflicted about her actions, until S4.  

TRIGGER A TURNING POINT.

So we have discussed conflict. Conflict about ones actions can come about in many different forms, but it must be triggered by something that is enough to shake the core foundations of a villains motivations. 

In order for it to be believable and carry weight, a villain cannot  suddenly overnight go, 

 And the protagonists accept it at face value, as the audience wont.  

 A redemption should be a slow burn, from starting point of why/how they are villains and most importantly,  focus on how they have struggled to overcome that villainy and change their perspective. 

The link below is to a previous post, with an avenue of thought of what could trigger Catra on ONRTR.

https://formerlyrunephoenix6769.tumblr.com/post/182601000156/catra-could-she-be-a-lost-princess-and-if-so

Another avenue of thought is that Adora is gravely injured. I am not normally one for such an easy and over done trope but in this instance it is highly possible, because as it stands now, Catra has never nastily physically injured Adora, only She-Ra! 

(When she raked her darn claws down She-Ra’s back. Showing that Catra see’s a difference between to two personalities and isn't as of yet willing to cross that line... Maybe crossing that line will be a stepping stone to embracing her chosen darker path?) 

In fact, Catra has gone out of her way to avoid just that, much preferring to go after Adora emotionally.  

FALLING INTO OLD PATTERNS:

Even after ‘Zuko Alone’ and the Ba Sing Say arc, Zuko begins on a false start redemption by bonding with Katara but by the next episode falls back into old patterns by choosing to side with Azula as the ties that bind and the potential to reclaim his birthright is too hard to ignore. 

Which is totally normal for a teenager. 

This adds so much depth to his inner conflict, a catalyst that later cements his realisation at his true purpose, ushering him through the gates of his redemption arc, towards trying to make amends with the protagonists before they can accept him.   

Catra strikes me as someone who will never be wholly ‘good’, in the sense of the word when it is applied to Bow, Glimmer or Adora, but rather someone who will make super dark comments and morally grey suggestions of how to deal with an issue, which is what we have been shown of her from the very beginning. 

It is hard to say is Catra will ever have this step in a redemption arc due to her already morally grey nature, this could very well be skipped over entirely. 

Narratively speaking and characterization wise, this particular part of an arc could present itself not as a ‘false start’ but could come from ‘Subterfuge and infiltration’ , whereby Catra pretends to come to their side only for her to betray them later, for her own ends. 

OR, 

We could very well have a ‘false start’, where she is trapped with any of the protagonists and they need to work together to escape, similar to the aptly named  ATLAB ep 40 ‘The Crossroads of Destiny’ and SPOPS s1e9 ‘Promise’, which would be a nice mirror, from a narrative standpoint, only for her to run off and return to the Horde once free. 

Again note, that this false start occured for Zuko the very end of S3 SPOP SDT. 

CONCLUSIONS.

Before Catra’s Redemption arc can come to fruition , we need her to go on her journey. Something akin to this, but for villains. 

On this map, if Resurrection is Catra being genuinely accepted by the protagonists as being changed and truly on their side.  I would see Catra as in between Meeting of Mentor (Hordak) and Crossing the Threshold into full blown villany 

So, we need to see her, 

1) Become a true villain. 

2) 1st Trigger.

3) baby Conflict

4)False start, falling into old patterns

5) 2nd Trigger

6)Conflict and Realisation/ (Seizing the Treasure) 

7) Through the Gates 

8) Trial of Proof.

9) Acceptance/Resurrection. 

We could be waiting for some time for a Catra redemption arc to kick in, and please dont be disappointed or frothing at the mouth if we dont see it starting in Season 2... No matter how much you want it out of the way so that ‘other’ things can occur.. 

Please keep in mind.. 

A good Redemption Arc has to be earned! And doing it well takes time!

MEANWHILE  ...

There is ALL OF THIS.... 

I dont even know where to begin starting to unwrap all this tension and awkwardness., 

Think I’m going to leave that for a an entirely different post.