#and that should be the case by the end of s3! depending on how the various early-season meetcutes go down

[markantonys]

now for the training yard scene, i would hazard a guess that this is nynaeve on the right and elayne on the left (mostly hidden by the tree, but i can see a bit of long reddish hair peeking out)

i know it would be insane and illogical to have egwene and gawyn miss meeting each other by 1 episode, but if the andoran arrival isn't until 3x02 and we also have an image of rand and lan training somewhere outside tar valon in 3x02, possibly indicating they've headed out on their trip, and now we're seeing possibly only our tanchico crew still around in the white tower for the quarterstaff fight, i can't help but worry! of course, it's entirely possible that egwene is somewhere in this scene too but just not visible from this particular angle, or that this takes place later in 3x02 and she's met gawyn earlier in the episode before leaving with rand & co, or that the quarterstaff scene isn't until 3x03 (which i actually think might make the most sense since if the tanchico crew aren't reaching tanchico until the back half of the season, they'll need a little something to fill up a 3x03 in the white tower, and then i'd guess they'll sit out the big rhuidean ep4; this would also allow gawyn and galad's 3x02 screentime to be focused on just getting to know them and the family dynamics, and then 3x03 we see more of them in a new setting here with the fight scene)

[galvanizedfriend]

do you recommend watching The Originals?

Nonnie, you're out with the tough questions 😂

I've been here thinking about this for a few minutes. The answer is... depends? lol I know some people who really like The Originals, so it's hard to say that you should or shouldn't watch it. It really depends on what kind of thing you're looking for and where do you draw a line.

Personally, I have a lot of issues with TO lol And back when it was still airing and I was watching it as the episodes came out, I abandoned it halfway through S3 because I got to a point where the very far and few good parts were no longer making it worth my while. A lot of people think S3 is the best season, I think it's by far the worst one lol So you see how it really depends.

But I do like it that I watched it in end, even though it took me a few years. It gives me authority that I know exactly what I'm talking about when I shit talk it lol also whenever people who can't stand the show have a canon-related question, they come to me because I watched it some 200 times so other people don't have to suffer through it, and I think that's beautiful 😂😂

Here's a simple pros vs cons list *in my opinion*: Pros: it's more Mikaelson screen time, so there's that. That are some plot lines that had potential, although almost none of them are well executed. Seasons 1 and 2 are actually kind of ok. S3 and 4 Klaus hair is 🤌🤌🤌 The WILD CURLS ERA! I'm a simple girl, you give me Klaus in tight Henley shirts with curly curls, I'm in. There are some great family moments scattered throughout the seasons, some really cool scenes that make you think 'wow, this could've been a great show' (right before you get pissed off that it wasn't). Daniel Sharman's Kol is, IMHO, the superior Kol (I don't like Nate Buzz's acting). Jomo really delivers as Klaus regardless the whole bullshittery around him and gets some great chances to just be a little shit, which I love. There are some great Klaroline moments (and not just in S5). And in spite of my overall feelings for TO, one of my favorite all-time TVDverse characters is from there: Vincent Griffith. I love him to bits. I also really like Marcel, even though he becomes a glorified extra after S1, and Jackson. Also, if you're really into werewolves, this is really the show where they get any screen time. I'm not saying it's good, but at least it's there (and no, Klaus never turns into a wolf, it makes no sense).

Cons: Really bad, inconsistent writing. Some seasons have storylines that just die out of nowhere for no reason (*cough*season 3*cough*). The whole premise of the show is insane (there was absolutely no need for Hope when Marcel is right there). The crossovers with TVD are very poorly done and very glaring opportunities go unexplored (like at the end of S1). Rebekah drops out pretty soon into the show. Elijah changes personality at least once every season to the point where, by the end of the show, they just retcon him completely. The finale is RIDICULOUS. Season 4 was written by someone on a wild acid trip, season 5 is really not worth your time AT ALL (except for the Klaroline moments). Female characters are very badly treated (pretty standard in the TVDverse, but anyway). Klamille is a thing, although, as with everything else, it's so badly done it's only marginally there. There are a lot of retcons and rewritings of the show's own mythology, which is annoying. And it's just... Bad. I don't know what to say, it just never lived up to the hype of what a show about the Original family could've been or what TVD had been at its peak. It's never, ever even remotely as good as TVD was around S2-3, not even at its best moments.

Those are my personal opinions, anyway. I'm sure others might feel different, but each to their own. It's really about you considering whether or not that's something you might enjoy or if it will at least be worth your time. Maybe start it and see how you feel? Worst case scenario, at least you get to see more of Klaus prancing around New Orleans.

Also, the first episode of TO is different from the backdoor pilot in TVD. That's more of a Klaus POV one, while the one in TO is more an Elijah POV.

hope my TED Talk helps you! 😂

[inevitably-johnlocked]

Hey Stephhh,

Im looking for some good post s4 fix-its, friends to lovers. Preferably smutty obvs, and under 50k (if its reeeeeeaallyy good but long ill read it but its gotta be like an 11/10)

I believe in you 🙏 thank you in advance lol

Hi Lovely!!

I've a lot of Post-S4 fics, and if I can say so, I think all of the fics on my lists are fantastic and MORE than 11/10's, but subjective, hahah.

I'm also needing a list for the weekend, so I'm using your ask as the one I'm posting the next part for, so I HOPE some of these appeal to you, as well as the fics on the additional lists!! I put word counts next to all my fics which should help you out!

And if y'all have S4 fics to suggest, please do, as usual! I've another part I'm compiling of MFL fics, so I will add them to that as well! Enjoy!

POST-S4 / S4 Fix Its Pt. 5

See also:

TFP Is Canon

Post S4 / S4 Fix Its

Post S4 / S4 Fix Its Pt. 2

Post S4 / S4 Fix Its Pt. 3

Post S4 / S4 Fix Its Pt. 4

S4 Rewrites

S3 / TAB / S4 [FIX IT] Fics (March 2019)

Post S4 and Mental Health

Evermore by SosoHolmesWatson (G, 2,068 w., 1 Ch. || Post-S4,  5-Year-Old Rosie, Love Confessions, Song Fic, Parentlock, Oblivious John, Pining Sherlock, First Kiss, Love Confessions, Fluff, Friends to Lovers, Disney Songs, Beauty and the Beast) – For the past years, John and Sherlock have lived at Baker Street again, raising Rosie together--as friends and nothing more. Ever since the little girl has watched her first Disney movie, she is obsessed with princesses. When John comes home one day, he finds his friend and his daughter in the middle of a reenactment of her current favourite. Part 1 of Made of Music

fulfilling for other people by missselene (E, 3,957 w., 1 Ch. || Post S4, Oblivious John, Pining Sherlock, Unhappy Fic, Unrequited Love Confession, Virgin Sherlock) – When Sherlock decides to act on John’s advice regarding romantic entanglements, the results are far from what John expected. Part 1 of fulfilling for other people

holding steady by darcylindbergh (E, 12,724 w., 4 Ch. || Post S4, Love Confessions, First Kiss, Growing Old, Gone Fishing, Mood without Plot, Soft Sherlock, Caring Sherlock, POV John Third Person, Anxious Sherlock, First Kiss / Time, Touching, Feeling Old, Sherlock Worship, Crying Sherlock, Cuddles, Comforting, Introspection, Retirement, Hand Holding, Forehead Kisses, Caring John, Bed Sharing, Emotional Love Making) – Sitting on a thick wool blanket at the end of a rickety dock side-by-side, legs dangling over the edge, a styrofoam container of wet, dark dirt between them, they’re fishing. John knows what this is about. This is about finally figuring it out.

A Quiet Life by DiscordantWords (M, 25,176 w., 6 Ch. || Post S4, Retirement, POV Sherlock, Awkwardness, Established Relationship, Family Dynamics, Minor Character Death, Questionable Parenting Choices, Non-Linear Narrative, 20 Year Old Rosie, Meddling Mycroft, Pining Sherlock, First Kiss, Love Confessions, Angst, Sherlock Whump) – There had been three days of silence and a funeral. Sherlock had the terrible feeling that whatever happened next would depend, entirely, on him.

How To Unfold a Heart by elwinglyre (E, 25,477 w., 7 Ch. || Post S4 Fix It, BAMF John, Mentioned Eurus, POV First Person Sherlock, Case Fic, Fluff, Slow Burn, Topping from the Bottom, 3 Yr Old Rosie, Introspection, Sexual Fantasies, John Worship, Ogling, Hand Holding, Kidnapping, Domesticity, Sherlock Whump, First Kiss/Time, Doctor John, Caring John, Soft Sherlock, Sensuality, Touching, Crying, Love Confessions, Anxious Sherlock, Rimming, Toplock, Fingering, Bossy Bottom John) – To Sherlock’s dismay, John’s return to Baker Street with Rosie is only temporary. Sherlock’s daily visits to Regent Park with John and Rosie illuminate his lost childhood memories and missed opportunities. But with each trip to the park, Sherlock also feels a growing sense of hope. That is until the past horrors return unexpectedly in a cryptic note folded in the shape of a heart. To decipher the message, Sherlock must uncover the nature of the hearts around him, including his own.

Winter’s Storm by LoloLolly (M, 51,812 w., 11 Ch. || Canon Compliant Through TFP/S4 Is Canon, Alternating POV,  Established / New Relationship, Parentlock with Rosie, Explicit Torture, Mentions of Sherlock’s PTSD, Mentions of Human Trafficking, References to Child Abuse, Violence, Kidnapping, Captivity, Angst with Happy Ending, Fluff, Case Fic, BAMF / Soldier John, Sherlock Whump, Mycroft and John Work Together, Marriage Proposal, Autistic Sherlock, Lestrade Finds Out, Polyglot Sherlock, Aftermath of Serbia) – Sherlock had buried the past. Shut Serbia away in the attic of his mind palace. Muddy footprints at a heinous crime scene, however, have led him right back to old enemies. And right back to captivity. For God’s sake, Mycroft. Part 2 of the Earthly Pomp (Is But a Dream) series

Isosceles by SilentAuror (E, 56,609 w., 7 Ch. || Post-S4, POV John, Original Male Character / Sherlock Dates Another Man, Love Triangle, Jealous John, Virgin Sherlock, Sexual Coaching, Angst, Romance, Domesticity, Unrequited Feelings, Miscommunication, First Kiss/Time, For a Case, Friends With Benefits, Bottomlock, Love Confessions, Spooning) – After solving a case for a major celebrity, Sherlock gets himself asked out. When John asks, he discovers that Sherlock has no intention of going, at least not until John agrees to coach him through whatever he might need to know for his date...

Repairing the Broken Things by BakerTumblings (M, 75,252 w., 15 Ch. || S4 Compliant, Angst, Hurt/Comfort, Medical Trauma, Hospitals, Big Brother Mycroft, Misunderstandings, Realizations, Severe Accident, John Whump, Pneumonia, Medical Procedures, Bed Sharing, First Time, Healing, Happy Ending) – "I'm calling today to notify you that there's been an accident."

Swallow the Night by ArwaMachine (E, 87,873 w., 15 Ch. || TSo3/Stag Night Fix It, TAB/S4 Divergence, Toplock, Mutual Pining, PWP, Drunk / Public Sex, Anal Fingering/Sex, Alcohol-Induced Amnesia, Everyone Knows Except Them, Emotional Love Confession, Demisexual Sherlock, Internalized Homophobia [John], Parentlock with Rosie, First Kiss, Drug Relapse, Infidelity, Texting, Masturbation, Oblivious John, Emotional Love Making, Angst with Happy Ending, Dreams and Nightmares) – “Do you know how long,” John panted, his cheek scraping against the wall, looking back at Sherlock through half-closed eyes, “I’ve wanted this?” Sherlock pressed himself against John’s back, biting at John’s ear. “Not nearly as long as I have,” he whispered.

Kintsukuroi by sussexbound (E, 91,823 w., 20 Ch. || S4 Compliant / Post-TLD, Grief / Mourning, PTSD, Internalized Homophobia, Therapy, Past Abuse, Alcohol Abuse, Nightmares, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Depression, Anxiety, Bed Sharing, Love Confessions, Cuddling, Suicidal Ideation, Masturbation, Minor Character Death, Sexting, Frottage, Inexperienced Sherlock, Rimming / Anal / BJ’s, Emotional Turmoil, Finding Each Other) – “I love you.” Sherlock sees the words hit John with almost physical force. He reels back a little, jaw twitching and eyes filling. “I love you,” he repeats, a little softer, a little more gentle, as earnest as he possibly can. Because they’ve been teetering on the brink of this thing for years, and it had become painfully obvious over the last few months that they were at a tipping point. This had to happen. Now it has. Now they can see where they end up. The tears in John’s eyes spill over, and he wipes at them angrily. “Do you even know what that means?”  

Drawn to Stars by Silvergirl (E, 109,272 w., 60 Ch. || S4 Compliant to TLD / TFP Doesn’t Exist, Sherlock’s Italian Adventure, Sherlock/OC and Johnlock, Jealous John, Mutual Pining, Misunderstandings, First Kiss/Time, Idiots in Love, 3 Part Story, Slow Burn, Inexperienced Sherlock, Bottom Sherlock, Introspection, Multiple Alternating First and Third Person POV, Separation and Reconciliation, Emotional Love Making, Love Confessions via Letters, Angst with Happy Ending) – After the Culverton Smith case Sherlock is clean, working, and looking for a romantic partner—since John has told him that’s what he needs. Shame John didn’t mention he was interested in that role himself, before Sherlock went off to Rome with a gorgeous Italian copper to try to fall in love and become a complete human being.  Part 1 of the Drawn to Stars series

The Lost Special: Family Matters (As Do Relationships) by ShirleyCarlton (M, 144,688 w., 40 Ch. || S4 Fix It Fic / Meta Fic, Unreliable Narrator, John’s Mind Bungalow, Friends to Lovers, Happy Ending, Demisexual Sherlock, Holmes Family, John Whump, Gay Mycroft, Misunderstandings, Drug Addiction, Parenting, TFP is a Nightmare, Virgin Sherlock, Slow Burn, Minor Character Death, Switchlock, John’s Past, Sherlock’s Past, Eurus, Love Confessions) –Sherrinford is not really the name of some high security prison. That was just a figment of John’s frantic coma dream. And Eurus is not actually Sherlock’s sister. That’s just something random she said to John before shooting him. Sherlock and John were never actually estranged. That was just their act to cover up what really happened to Mary – or Rosamund Moran, as her real name has turned out to be. Sherlock does have a secret sibling, though, and his name is Sherrinford. After finally eliminating Moran – though in a rather dramatically different way than they had envisioned – and exposing the truth about Eurus, John encourages Sherlock to delve into his past and to find out whether the reasons to keep Sherrinford away from Sherlock were the right ones, and to discover what really happened in 1981. Along the way, Sherlock and John gradually, finally, stop keeping each other at a distance, and eventually become a proper family of their own.

[lunabug2004]

You said that according to you there is a way to make Mileven stay together and have all the characters have a good arc at the end of the show. Could you develop that? cause in my opinion if Mike's arc is about falling in love , changing his personality after meeting a girl and at the end being the protective paladin to "fix" his bad behaviour then it's really bad writing (coming from a straight person)

I'm going to be completely honest here, which I hope is what you want lol, I do think I say this (sans the "good arcs" part bc I don't think I've ever said that there's a way to make Mileven happen where all the characters have good arcs) to more-or-less make myself feel better bc I have so much Byler doubt (& Mike love) so yeah, take this as you will, this is just what my brain has come up with as an arc(?) I could mostly cope with. I mean, there's a reason I put "(mostly) happy" but yes, I'll try to expand.

I love Mike and I have a feeling I will continue to love Mike whether Mileven or Byler is endgame. This is purely because I do not believe Mike is a bad person or bad character just bc he's made some bad decisions/said some things he (canonically) regrets. I don't think Mike would be a protective paladin to simply "fix" his "bad behavior". While I do agree that this wouldn't be the best writing choice, I think, in-context, he would be trying his best to keep everyone he loves alive. He is an extremely traumatized teenage boy whose biggest fear is losing those he loves. He has been smack-dab in the middle of the action until s4. Finn Wolfhard himself has said Mike is depressed and pushing everyone away bc of it.

Anyways, all of this to say that I don't think it'd be too farfetched to say all of his "bad behavior" is simply untreated trauma symptoms. And yes, you could say something about other characters being traumatized and them not acting like Mike, but trauma, and this is a fact, effects everyone differently. One person may lean into their life before going through said trauma, like Will in s3, while another may block it out, like it's shown with El in s4, and another may completely change themselves while being stuck in a loop of wanting those he loves close to him but also wanting to keep them at a distance bc he is so terrified of losing them. Dr. Owens even says in s2 that a sign of PTSD is change in personality and lashing out, which we see both in Mike. Plus all the parallels bt him and Max in s4, it's safe to say this boy is struggling mentally.

I do think it would make sense, when we finally get Mike's POV in s5, for a lot of his controversial moments to be fueled by his mental health struggle. Now, do I think this is an excuse? Not necessarily, but it does make sense, and as far as I know, anytime Mike's actively made anyone upset he's apologetic (like I said earlier, lashing out). I believe that if the show solely focuses on Mike's mental health issues, then Mileven wouldn't be out of the question.

I do want to add that this is not how I want the story to go, I would much rather his story go the Byler route, but I've said before that his character is not solely dependent on either Byler or Mileven, and I still stand by that. He should not simply be seen as a 'romantic interest' character bc he is more than that and he has his own problems (that we aren't necessarily shown) that have nothing to do with who he's in a romantic relationship with.

Now, again, this is probably mostly just something I've convinced myself I'd be alright with, but I am aware that this in and of itself would be boring and not very good writing. I also do not know, in this case, what would happen on the Byler side of things, this why I say "(mostly)". I am fully a Byler shipper and would prefer Byler endgame to anything really, but I'm a Mike-stan first and foremost.

Sorry if this wasn't too clear, I feel like I just rambled and repeated myself a lot. Thanks for the ask, though! And pls if you or anyone else has questions about anything I said, pls ask me! Trust me, I know this isn't foolproof and I'm probably just dumb 😂

TLDR: I think it's possible they could go more towards untreated PTSD and trauma/mental health related route for Mike in a way that would make Mileven possible. Doesn't mean I'd think it's necessarily good writing, but I could see it going that way.

[spacedlexi]

I am madly in love with your artstyle and its been a big big inspiration for me as of late. Also, what are your thoughts on Jane and Bonnie? Do you like them or not

AAA thank you so much thats so flattering to hear 🥺💕!!

my feelings on jane and bonnie are nuanced just like my opinion on many of twdg characters. but i love twdg for all its messy fucked up characters :) its fun :) so while i dont hate either of them they definitely still do things that piss me off

in janes case, i think her mentorship/sisterhood with clem came more from her guilt about her sister than actually wanting to have this 11 year old around. so while she would teach clem important survival skills, she was also always quick to leave or act selfishly (clems "i thought you believed in me 🥺" always makes me sad). and this is just solidified by her actions in her S3 flashbacks. i do think she TRIES to work with the group, but she just gets in her own way and is never able to fully integrate, especially since the S2 cast is a fucked up mess in and of itself so its understandable. her actions at the end of S2 are born of pure selfishness, leaving a newborn infant in a random freezing vehicle so she could "show clem what kenny was really like" when clem is WELL AWARE of the thread this madman is hanging on to (having already faced the brunt of his frustrations MULTIPLE times at this point, and is desperate not to lose anyone else). she wanted a fight and she got one. i think maybe she told herself it was about saving clem, but honestly i dont think that was really ever her goal. again i just think a lot of her motivation comes out of the guilt of leaving her sister behind, so she saw clem as a second chance to make things right. but depending on clems actions, she can end up on her own without either of them, and jane can be the sister left behind to die. its interesting to see clem kinda pick up janes personality in the first half of S3 now that shes also at a point where she has no one and trusts no one, and is deep down lonely and longing for community. the difference is clem is not selfish (while still caring about self preservation), and actually likes being able to help people when she can. shes more so just afraid of caring for people again to protect herself from what she sees is the inevitable pain of losing them, as opposed to janes "theyre all just gonna bring you down so you should be on your own instead" outlook. but i definitely saw jane (and luke) as a bigger mentor/big sister(/brother) figure to clem than kenny was to her. jane actually taught her how to take care of herself. kenny was just someone from her past she didnt want to let go of

in bonnies case, she can be really horrible to clem if she listened to luke and stayed back instead of trying to grab him, so i'll literally try to save luke just so i dont have to hear it 😭 but also i like the convo her and clem have on the steps if you tried to save him. its an important character moment for clem, being asked what SHE wants instead of what the people around her want, and that she should start thinking about that, which is formative to the decision she makes (or fails to make) at the rest stop. the way bonnie is initially dismissive of carvers behavior i think is supposed to mirror the way clem can be dismissive of kennys behavior after leaving howes. will they come to see the man they once respected is becoming someone unstable? (i used to be in the "kenny might be going crazy but he'd never hurt clem" camp UNTIL i picked the "lee shouldnt have tried to save me 😔" option in the car and kenny threatened to smack her for it AFTER giving it a moment of hesitation so he KNEW what he was saying there. my jaw was dropped. but kenny is just another interesting flawed character in a game of interesting flawed characters (although they Heavily backtracked on the kenny/carver parallels in the S3 flashbacks. you can make the argument hes happier now but idk he cant come back from the threat for me he MEANT that)). bonnie leaving with mike is fucked but understandable, and she can show real concern after clem gets shot before getting chased off by kenny. i hope her and mike are still out there somewhere i dont hate either of them, even tho it was horrible of them to steal ALL of their supplies when they knew they were leaving TWO children behind. like cmon. but overall i liked bonnie :) shes a bit of a mess but i like her for it

in the end i am a twdg woman character forgiver :) i do love all the fucked up ladies its refreshing let them do dumb shit and make mistakes!!! i love mess :)

[my-mt-heart]

I’ve read the leaked script page—the whole page— not just the Carol teaser. I’m not going to share it just in case it gets anyone in trouble, but fwiw I strongly believe it’s a sanctioned leak, meaning AMC wants to gauge our reactions so they can plan their marketing strategies going forward.

I’ve reread this thing a bunch of times from different angles—as a writer and as a fan—and every time I come out of it feeling like the concerns I’ve expressed before have been validated. Again, I don’t have the big picture, just this one page that suggests:

1. AMC and co are struggling to write/market Daryl’s character. I'm so sick of the ambiguity. I'm so sick of the baiting. And, I'm worried I'm going to end up resenting him if it isn't made explicitly clear how he's feeling (particularly about Carol) ASAP. There’s an excessive amount of conventional action heroes on TV. Daryl has never been one of them, AND THAT’S A GOOD THING. Why not lean into it?

2. AMC doesn’t consider the ways they are constantly using women to service the male hero’s story or how it’s impacting the female lead we’re all really invested in. They can flaunt the number of women they have in the writers’ room all they want. It means absolutely nothing if leadership can’t get over their biases and listen 👏 to 👏 their 👏 audience.

3. It makes me happy that Carol is going to be riding Daryl’s bike and that Daryl is going to be her emotional drive. But take a closer look at the action line “as we left her in 106.” If that's the case, then to me that implies they’re relying on gimmicks (Daryl’s bike) to get us hyped rather than giving us any real payoff. It’s low hanging fruit, it’s a huge gamble considering that most of the audience has no faith left in any eventual payoff, and it’s not enough.

I feel like I have as much as I need to conclude S1 isn’t worth any amount of my time or my money, not that I wasn’t sure already. Whether S2 will be worth watching remains to be seen, and is dependent on how faithful the story is to the relationship between Caryl which was twelve years in the making.

I know I’m going to get a lot of asks, which I will answer as soon as I can. Just please be patient with me, and please keep in mind that I’m trying to honor strike rules to the best of my ability while still providing insight.

I’m not trying to rain on anyone’s parade. I said before that we should focus on Carol/Caryl, so if you love this little leak as much as I do, go nuts about it. The fact remains that Carol is back. Melissa is back. Season 2 will have her in it and that’s worth celebrating. I just feel it's important that we aren’t playing into AMC’s gross strategies in the meantime or responding to even a tiny hint of ship baiting that might come our way. Do not stop reminding AMC what you'll pay for—unambiguous Caryl canon.

Side note: I don’t know if they’re trying to use name recognition to lure back a reluctant audience, but I’m not promoting or watching anything with “DD” as a placeholder. I think it's disrespectful to their female lead and to loyal Carol/Caryl fans, so please make it stop.

Other side note: I would not be surprised if more info on a potential S3 comes out soon to try to get us to "hang in there."

[stelladess]

I know most people do not really care much for crushers, but I find them neat. I like them a lot. Hoederer has been a mainstay on my team since his original banner. So... comparing some numbers on Hoederer and Ulpian (no abyssal buffs)

Hoederer atk at max trust + module: 1782 (it goes up to 1960 when attacking or 2495 if the enemy is stunned our bound) Ulpian atk at max trust + module: 1769 (+30-270 from talent for total of 1799-2039)

Hoederer HP: 6938 Ulpian HP: 7032 (+120-1080 from talent for 7152-8112)

Defensive abilities Hoederer of course got 28% sanctuary (damage reduction) while Ulpian gains 130 or 175 hp when hit by an enemy (depending on how much hp Ulpian got). These are not really good in the exact same situations, damage reduction helps more against harder hitting enemies (like the elites and bosses that crushers are designed to crush) while Ulpian skill is better against faster attacks and DoTs. Of course since Ulpian gets 30% damage reduction from Gladiia who is free this is most of the time going to be a moot point as he practically just has Hoederer´s damage reduction but slightly better AND gets his own on top of that. On defense Ulpian is pretty much always gonna be better, Hoederer giving damage reduction to an operator behind him is very flavorful about his desire to bring a better future for the sarkaz and all that but is not that impactful most of the time in gameplay. I am fine with this, I like giving abilities to convey things about the character.

Their S1 are both automatic skills with some nice damage bonus. Ulpian charges per second, Hoederer per hit. Hoederer gets more damage, Ulpian gets to pull enemy. Hoederer also self heals. Hoederer S1 is better if you have aspd+ source (say in IS mode via artifacts) but Ulpian does not often have benefit from his S1 since it does what pullers do. It is useful for E0 since it has higher pull force by default though.

Hoederer S2 takes only 5 seconds to charge and gives him 3 block (therefore attacking 3 targets at a time). He stuns enemies for 1 second on attack. Since the enemy will always be stunned unless stun immune (so unless it is a boss pretty much, which you should probably not try to 1v1 with a melee operator in the first place) that means the attack is always 2495 on atks. Skill also gives + 40% atk so + 998 in this case. So 3493 per hit. Also factor in Hoederer´s module giving him +10% damage so 3842 dph on each attack. His aspd is made slower, to 3 seconds on this skill though. 1281 dps.

Ulpian S2 takes 70 seconds to charge. Doubles his talent 1 effect so he is tankier. Max HP +60% so between 11251 and 12979 hp. Also +160% atk which is between 2830 and 3262 dph, at 2.5 second attack interval the dps ends up at 1132-1305.

So on S2 Ulpian has much higher survivability and at maximum stacks slightly higher dps but he always has lower dph then Hoederer if they both use their S2. But Hoederer also stuns enemies, which against enemies that have a slower then 2 second attack interval (since they get stunned for 1 second) means they cant even attack him. But I think the biggest advantage Hoederer has on S2 is getting to activate the skill right away pretty much.

As for their S3....

50 second charge time with 70 second duration for Hoederer S3 with 25 second charge time with 25 second duration for Ulpian. Hoederer gets 25% chance to stun for 5 seconds every hit (2.5 seconds attack interval for both, so this is pretty good chance to keep slower attacking enemies from attacking) while Ulpian has guaranteed 6 second stun in the area (Ulpian moves but Hoederer gains increased attack, what is handier would of course depend on the situation)

Hoederer buffs his HP by 60% up to 11101 (also he loses 200 hp per second and does 200 true damage per second on enemies who etc etc.) while Ulpian gets +80% hp so between 12658 and 14602 hp. Ulpian is more tanky even off skill so this is not surprising at all so far. Hoederer has the higher attack at base though so....

Hoederer gets +120% atk but also he has his talent which makes this more complicated of course. There is a 25% chance to stun on each hit, which means we cant really decide on a concrete DPS. But thankfully Hoederer and Ulpian got the same attack speed on their S3 (not counting abyssal buffs) so calculating their DPH should be enough. So 1960*2.2=4312 dph or 2495*2.2=5446 dph depending on if he can stun or not. However both get +10% damage increase so 4743 or 5991.

Ulpian has between 1769*3.6=6368 and 2039*3.6=7340 Even at zero stacks and no abyssal hunters Ulpian does higher damage per swing on S3 then Hoederer. This is not counting his initial big damage slam too which is way higher damage.

Hoederer does get the advantage of one tile range extension, the true damage DoT and absurdly long duration. The absurdly long duration is actually worth a lot more then you´d think in the right situations. Also he self heals on hits. But he also has health drain, his self heal more then makes up for the health drain but it is worth keeping in mind.

Hoederer is another one of those operators who people dunked on a lot that is actually pretty good. But then Ulpian came out and... Hoederer was still pretty good, just Ulpian was extremely good. Then their modules came out and... honestly Hoederer is pretty darn good.

If we compare only Ulpian and Hoederer, without including abyssal hunter buffs. They are actually pretty good sidegrades to each other. On S2 Hoederer has less survivability (except against slow attacking enemies) but makes up for it in getting it up quicker and higher damage. S1 synergizes well with a lot of buffs and make him have both good damage and survivability while Ulpian S1 is mostly only worth it if you cant bring a puller for some reason. Ulpian survives better against enemies crushers are normally weak to, while Hoederer survives better against enemies they are meant to counter. Their S3s Ulpian has more cycleability, the guaranteed 6 second stun and big AoE slam at the start as well as higher damage. But the longer duration with chance to stun for 5 seconds on each hit for Hoederer, along with the true DoT and range extension can all help Hoederer a lot.

Ulpian´s kit makes him less vulnerable to the weaknesses of a crusher while still doing what they do best really well (mostly on S3, his other two skills are mostly focused on making up for their weaknesses) while Hoederer focuses on fine tuning what crushers excel at to the maximum potential. Which means you want him to fight alongside operators that can provide crowd control and AoE damage (perhaps, say, his teammates Ines and W/Wis´adel) so he can focus on the tougher enemies. Ulpian meanwhile does not really require any support but he falls behind in prolonged fights against elites.

This is without abyssal buffs of course, once we factor those in Ulpian gets pretty insane. But that applies to all the hunters so I do not think we can hold that against Hoederer.

[jupitermelichios]

the creators haven't said anything about it afaik, but having now finished arcane s2, i'm absolutely certain they had planned for 3 more seasons, and got told pretty late into pre-production that it was only going to be 1.

you can even see pretty clearly where the season breaks would be - s2 would end with the vander/warwick reveal, s3 would end with the attack on victor's commune, and s4 would be the robot apocalypse stuff. (alternatively it might have been 2 seasons, in which case you could break it at either warwick or the commune, depending on how much time they were planning to spend on the multiverse stuff)

you wouldn't even need to add all that much completely new content to make it work, there's so much stuff that's fudged or skipped over for time, and multiple montage sequences that could be entire episodes by themselves. (in the case of martial law being implemented in xorn, multiple entire episodes). there's also moments and characters that feel like they should be entire episodes or major storylines that just aren't - vander's flashbacks really feel to me like they were once an entire episode. likewise, i cannot believe there was never a plan for an episode focussing entirely on isha, she has the weird quality of being super important and yet a total stranger to the audience at the same time. I can't believe we weren't supposed to get to know her properly.

my biggest evidence for this theory is the black rose stuff, which just screams 'multi season subplot that got condensed into a couple of episodes'. it has '30 volume manga gets 90 minute movie adaptation' energy. there's no set up for it, which i assume was going to be a season long arc that got cut entirely, then mel is captured and escapes in the course of 2 scenes, which again feels like it was probably a season long, or at least multi-episode, arc being condensed. that shot of mel walking out of the prison now with magic? you cannot tell me that wasn't at one point a season finale moment. then we never actually get a satisfying answer for how ambessa is involved or how mel's brother died, which is compounded by the fact that we really have no idea how magic works in this world or what being a mage actually means in any meaningful sense, all of which could have been very easily solved if we'd had a season, or at least a bunch of episodes, in which mel figures out how to navigate now being magic and learns to use her powers.

there's also so many instances of the show assuming we remember everything from s1 despite the multiyear gap between seasons in ways that are frankly just bad writing, but which make total sense if you assume they're desperately trying to find anything to cut or condense for time. is not reminding the audience of jayce's magic bracelet backstory before it becomes plot-relevant bad writing? yes. is it one of the first things i'd cut if i was condensing this severely? also yes.

like i said, i don't know if that's what happened. but as much as i hate good shows getting screwed over by networks, i kind of hope it is, if only because i don't want to believe these writers are capable of making those mistakes without outside interferance.

[kinetic-elaboration]

December 27: Some Daria Thoughts

I’m trying to slow down with my Daria rewatch because I’m too obsessed and have too few episodes left, and I’ve been mainlining it too hard. But I am really enjoying it. I think taking several years off from my formerly regular rewatches helped. But I also… don’t want to leave the universe of it, I guess. I’ve been toying around with some fic ideas, nothing that I would share but just something fun for me. Also I feel like I could use some ‘seriously this can be bad it’s just for me’ writing, to help loosen up.

Anyway, I’ve gotten almost to the end of S4, or the Tom Troubles Storyline. I definitely just let this story wash over me when I watched as a teenager and enjoyed the sort of sordidness of it but it’s different to watch as an adult. He’s so fucking annoying. It’s so unforgivable to cheat on your girlfriend with her best friend AND be so sanctimonious about it AND then to totally get away with it! I think making out with one’s best friend’s boyfriend is also unforgivable but in Daria’s case it’s more of a she-can’t-help-it-she’s-drawn-that-way scenario, or in other words, I don’t really think that’s in character for her and to the extent that it is OOC that’s a writing mistake, something to be annoyed at on a meta level. And even if you can kind of make that work—people make mistakes, 17-year-olds make lots of mistakes, this is an area far out of her comfort zone or expertise, sometimes we want to tell certain stories and that means stretching the limits of believable characterizations especially in long-form, serial narratives—she shouldn’t have stayed with him for a year! A year! That piece of toast!

The thing is that I do get why they did it. The show was getting pretty weird in S3, perhaps a little bored with itself, and after 3 full seasons I think it was also ready to grow, and ready for its characters to grow. I think bringing in Tom was an attempt to give Daria specifically, the character, room to grow: first by separating her from Jane and thus forcing her to explore other relationships or even just herself in solitude, and second by laying the groundwork for Tom/Daria in S5. I understand the desire to give the main character a boyfriend, especially at that point in the show. But it’s hard to imagine where Daria would find someone to date: first off it would have to be a new character, because there are no viable men in the existing cast and almost every character at this point in the show exists to be skewered, and second because her friendship with Jane is so intense and codependent. There might be one-off new characters like Ted (gay, btw), but for Daria to really want to date someone she’d have to get quite close to him and to get close to someone she’d need to detach herself at least a little bit from Jane.

Jane, yeah, one could imagine her dating someone: she’s always been more into men than Daria, she’s always been more willing to go out on her own, she’s always been less socially awkward and less dependent. And once she becomes serious with someone, that person is in Daria’s orbit and she can plausibly gain an interest in him that she wouldn’t have the chance to gain in anyone else. I mean, lol, even the safely unattainable Trent is Jane’s older brother.

That said, Tom plays a pretty minor role in S4. Mostly he exists to pull Jane away from Daria, as I said, although every time he and Daria do interact, they get along better than she wants them to. (And he’s also totally inappropriate with her! She doesn’t know how to flirt but he damn sure does! Looking at you I Loathe a Parade.) A lot of the story line that makes IIFY possible comes in those two episode right at the end of S4, the ones I haven’t gotten to yet in this rewatch. My feeling is… it might be worth using Tom to test the Daria and Jane friendship but Daria and Tom should have broken up either in the movie or by early S5. The only issue is that I think all of these earlier plot points exist NOT to test the Daria and Jane friendship or to help Daria become less co-dependent but to set her up for a S5 boyfriend the only way they knew how. And I can’t really argue that there aren’t many paths to ‘Daria dates in high school’ that AREN’T ‘Daria poaches Jane’s boyfriend,’ annoying as that is.

[jackoshadows]

Rafe’s Q&A on twitter

And on here courtesy of u/crowz9:

Q: Will we see more than one of these cities in season 2? Cairhien, Tear, Falme

A: Yes

Q:  I have to ask. Gawyn (and I guess the lesser brother Galad) actually beat Mat in the warder training yard in the show right? Theres no way they lose on screen is there?

A:  This is an iconic scene from the book and we are building to a believable version of it in the show.  Hopefully.  Ha.

Q:  I have a cheat question about season 1. What was the biggest change in episode 8 that was brought by COVID restrictions compared to what you had originally planned?

A:  The thing I like the least was we originally had Egwene using the Wisdom skills she’d learned in the pilot from Nynaeve to help her after the channeling in Fal Dara.  But last minute Covid changes on the day didn’t allow for the same amount of touching so it got switched and I (melting face emoji)

Q:  How much has the making of process changed in between seasons especially with how the pandemic affected season 1?

A:  It’s certainly affected us in ways both huge and small, but by the end of Season Two it had become so second nature that MULTIPLE TIMES I poured a coffee into my mask and was confused why it didn’t go into my mouth

Q:  What’s your favourite scene with Donal Finn, and why is it him blowing the horn?

A:  #LetDonalToot is now the rallying cry of a generation

Q:  Which books make it into season 2?

A:  Pieces of 1,2 and 3.

Q:  Blink twice if we see more than one Forsaken!

A: (two relieved face emojis)

Q:  How far into the books will this season take us, know the EF5 are much more split up than EotW

A:  We are trying to get a fair amount of what’s done in Books 1-3 (large parts still being held for later) by the end of S2 so that S3 can be a much closer adaptation of TSR

Q:  In comparison to season one, how much queer rep is there going to be?

A:  It depends on how many great memes you churn out.

Q:  When will Rand’s luscious curly locks return?

A:  Ask @joshastradowsk1 He should be growing them now :)

Q:  Maybe you can open with an explanation of why you had the entire seanchan ever victorious navy unleash everything they had on a poor little girl on the beach, or how you had the forces of Fal Dara hard charging the BACK OF THEIR OWN DEFENSIVE FORTIFICATION.

A:  That girl had it coming.  So did the entire coastline and all its cities

Q:  Is Liandrin’s friend a <ahem> North Harbor friend, a Darkfriend, or both?

A:  I wouldn’t tell you even if you used a weave of compulsion

Q: Why did you guys decide not to make the dagger instant death like the books? How did Loial survive being stabbed by *the* dagger?

A:  That’s a story best told in a stedding

Q: describe S2 using only alcoholic beverages please

A:  Spiked Kaf

Q: Do the Seanchan still use the ball gags on the Damane?

A:  I’ve never seen a ball gag on a damane

Q: Pretty sure I saw Uno in the behind the scenes - interested in how that is possible after last season...

A:  He’s breathing.  Watch close

Q: Can you tell us how much you will be expanding on the forsaken in this season?

A:  It’s a big point of difference from the books in S2.  We will spend more time with any Forsaken who’s in the show, more how the later books treat the Forsaken than necessarily Books 2 or 3 did

Q: Hopper?

A:  THANK YOU.  WHY IS NO ONE EVER GIVING HOPPER THE RESPECT HE DESERVES.  OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: HOPPER IS IN S2

Q: favorite Season 2 two person scene with only the character names and no more

A:  Egwene Renna

Q: Since most of the main characters split up geographically at the beginning to tGH, will the next seasons keep them on parallel timelines for a convergence at Falme? In which case, the Portal Stones left a time gap of ~4 months for Rand's group; easier to do on a page or on film?

A:  Time gaps are very difficult moving to the medium of television with the stories intercutting, but we try to do as much as we can to avoid one hour cross continent dragon flights

Q: favourite type of gin, and also, can you drop a hint about something you're looking forward to us seeing in season 2?

A:  Your pic makes me excited about where Liandrin’s character goes in S2.  We are so so lucky to have the amazing  @katefleetwood in the show and you will love, hate, and love to hate her LiLi

Q:  Any hints on Moiraine’s journey in season 2? A:  It’s much expanded from her Book 2 story. But built out of the core of that and of a couple relationships that were not explored in the books

Q:  Did everything happen as planned this season or did you guys have to change anything (as in the last 2 eps of season 1)? A: There were unforeseen changes as we shot S2 immediately after wrap of 107 and 108.  But that’s making television.  Anyone who tells you there weren’t unforeseen changes on their show is lying

Q: Are you sticking with the fun cold opens? A:  Yep!   It’s our ode to the out of POV chapters in the books and we will always have them

Q:  What new character/actor are you most excited to introduce us to? A:  There are so many — Aviendha, Elayne, others that have been both announced but not announced, and of course Bayle Domon

Q:  Does Mat get to wander the Tower practice yard, and do we learn of Jearom? A:  Get your Origins on!!!

Q:  Will we get “Do you like to dance, Perrin Aybara”? A:  Yes.

Q:  Can you tell us what role Xelia Mendes-Jones will play please A:  Xelia is playing the role of knocking their scenes out of the fucking park every time they stepped on set.

Q:  Which new cast member gave you the best “Yep! THAT’S _(insert character name)_!” moment in season 2 filming? A:  I think this moment will be in the first or second trailer of season 2.  It lives rent free in my mind at all times

Q:  How many episodes will@Season 2 be? If only 8 again, will they be longer? A:  They are longer than first season, but yes, still only 8

Q:  Are the Wheel of Times Origins cannon to the tv show or just a pretty (amazing) side piece where the stories of origins aren’t the mythology used in the show? A:  Canon

Q:  which character had his plot changed the most compared to the books? A: Mat.  But we try to bring the characters back to where they should be by the end of S2.

Q:  What is the journey like for Moiraine and Lan in season 2 with their bond still masked A:  Another big departure point for us from the books is making much more story for Moiraine and Lan.  We aren’t sitting these two amazing actors on the bench for a season, so we take what’s in Book 2 for them and expand it in a huge way.  That’s all I can say.

Q:  please tell us gawyn won’t be likable please please please you can’t do this to me A:  I love every character I write.  I think you have to find a way to

Q: Will weaves appear the same in the coming season(s)? Congrats on S3 btw! A:  They’re getting a bit of a revamp for S2.  Threads and colors and bears oh my.  But no bears.

Q:  First off, G&T is divine. Second, I want to know if you get more chances to expand the dialog more to let us see the characters better? A:  We are always trying to.  Lots of one on one scenes that didn’t get shot or didn’t make the cuts.  But I’m always fighting for them, I think that’s where the characters really live or die, and our actors can always deliver when it’s just 2 people in a room talking

Q:  What was the scene you dreamed of bringing alive the most and have you filmed it yet? A:  That scene is in the final episode of the show

Q:  Is the Darkfriend Social gonna be in the show? A:  Yep

Q:  Does Rand get his Red and Gold outfit this season? I can’t wait to see Josha officially in it A: (smiling face with open hands emoji)

[earthstellar]

Language in TFP

A couple things I’ve been thinking about lately: 

1) We aren’t sure how the translation process/language learning process is for Cybertronians, even though there are several effective and reasonably plausible ways for them to have learnt English. 

They also might look things up in real time fast enough to learn on the go to supplement base knowledge-- It’s handy when your brain is basically a high end computer! 

But what we do absolutely know is that they’re not organic.

So how do they replicate the sounds of human speech, which are highly dependent on our actual physiology? We know that in some TF media, Cybertronians have a tongue equivalent (glossa), but is that the case in TFP? I can’t recall ever seeing a bot stick out their tongue or ever seeing one when their mouths are open wide, like when yelling. 

So there may be a real physical difficulty for them when speaking English, at least at first. The effectivity or accuracy of work-arounds may vary. 

For example, can a Cybertronian replicate a glottal stop effectively? So many human speech sounds depend on the glottis, something they don’t have, but may have an equivalent for. We don’t know exactly. 

--

2) There are some concepts and words that would just not translate, and some concepts that are familiar but so different with humans that it would be completely bizarre to them. 

We see this a little bit when Ultra Magnus asks Optimus what a kilt is after Agent Fowler mentions it, and Optimus admits he has no clue. 

Clothes, or items like shoes, etc. are all totally foreign as concepts to Cybertronians. 

Food items or similar are somewhat irrelevant to them, so they might struggle with that in terms of building vocabulary; In TFP they have one primary source of fuel, energon, although it does have variations like engex and other refined forms. We never see them eat solids of any kind in TFP that I can recall. 

But I can imagine them initially being surprised at learning about humans and human language, and how extremely different life forms on Earth are and how the language reflects that. 

Arcee: “I did a little drive around to check out the locals. They have this place called a cafe where they source their fuel, like a canteen or bar, but they seem to be able to eat pretty much anything, so I’m not sure what they were doing. Maybe a social ritual. It was weird, they seemed to go in and out pretty quickly...  Maybe they don’t like to eat around others? Do we know if humans are defensive over food? They all looked different, maybe they only eat around their own group or something.” 

Ratchet: “Pff, nonsense. These are organics, if the rest of the organic land animals we’ve seen on this planet so far are anything to go by, they have a primary diet of grasses or plant matter, perhaps mild carnivorous tendencies, something along those lines. The humans aren’t so different from the other organic life here, they just appear to have higher cognitive functions. Biologically--” 

Arcee: “I did some recon and found this.” (Shows a paper take out menu.) 

Ratchet: “These are all ingestible??? They can fuel themselves with ALL OF THIS????? Beings so tiny... I wouldn’t have imagined. Although I suppose it makes sense, they must require more energy than other smaller, simpler organics. Is this desert area so barren because they’ve stripped it of nutrient giving material? How do they process or store it all?” 

Optimus: “We should be careful not to transgress on any contested or sensitive human territories. It is good to learn more about the native life before we attempt to engage with them directly; This is potentially valuable cultural information. Well done, Arcee.” 

Bulkhead: (Looking at the menu) “They have 50 different words for fuel fluids alone! THEY HAVE 50 DIFFERENT FUEL FLUIDS!” 

Ratchet: “Remarkable... What is [coffee]?” (looks it up) “THE HUMANS ENGAGE IN WIDESPREAD CASUAL DRUG USE ???” 

--

3) We don’t know about how age (hardware age, age overall, etc.) affects Cybertronians in regards to mental acuity as it relates to language learning. Would older Cybertronians have somewhat more difficulty adapting to using a new language, or a completely different language like ones spoken by organics due to the possible difficulty in physically replicating some sounds-- Even if their processors don’t actually struggle all that much in regards to learning it, and adapting to using it was the primary struggle?  

My great-Grandma spoke Slovakian and learned English later in life; She did well, but as anyone who knows multiple languages or is from a bilingual family knows, often vocabulary was forgotten momentarily in one language or the other, so it would just be substituted with the right word in whatever language it could be remembered in at the moment. Sometimes it just happens no matter how fluent or how experienced with a language someone gets. 

Where I’m going with this, is that I really like the idea of Ratchet sometimes getting frustrated with English and just using a Cybertronian word instead, but then refusing to mention it or translate it because it’s one of the few ways in which his age shows so he tries to just cover it up. Or if he does acknowledge it, he tries to keep it on the down low, but every now and then you just hear him yell a random word and you know it’s because he just remembered it. 

I recall in S3 when Raf mentions Ratchet has been teaching him Cybertronian, at least the text form of it, to assist with tech work at the base...

But that might also result in cultural etc. language concept problems, too! Just the other direction.

Ratchet: *tries to casually, secretly slide up to Raf despite being the boxiest bot in the base* “Hello Rafael, may I interrupt briefly?” 

Raf: “Yes, Ratchet? I'm working on--”

Ratchet: “What is the word for 01010101010″ 

Raf: “...I have no idea. Can you describe it?” 

Ratchet: “You know when you get some wear and tear around the edges of your armour, perhaps some damage from the elements, and you need to debride, treat, repaint, and replace the sealant?”

Raf: “Uh, no.” 

Ratchet: “FFFFF OPTIMUS WHAT IS 010101010″

Optimus: “Rust.” 

Ratchet: “RUST” 

idk I just think it’s fun to think about space robots having to cope with weird human stuff 

[markantonys]

oh purely political arranged marriage could be interesting to see because yeah, of all the characters rj could've chosen, he picked the one guy that was pretty much enslaved and sexual assaulted and yet was willing to sacrifice his own escape to free collared woman. Like sure, that guy would fall in love with a slaver and then even worse, sort of defend the Seanchann. Respectfully, fuck that.

So that marriage could be interesting, especially if it ends with Tuon breaking it off for whatever reason.

Personally, I think the show (and the books) should end with either Mat in the polycule (which ofc is not gonna happen) or single. We don't need to have all our heroes paired off (side-eyeing Moiraine/Thom).

yeah, i think the route the show needs to go is setting mat up as someone who is entering this marriage with the intention of fixing (or destroying) the seanchan empire from the inside. because it's not his character to go in with any other mindset. now, whether that includes genuine love for a changed tuon who will help him fix/destroy things or whether he's working as a solo operator with no feelings for her will depend on how many seasons they end up getting.

(and like, in the books we can headcanon that this is what he would've done post-canon, we can say "oh this is probably the route rj would've gone if he'd been able to write outriggers", but the idea that mat has serious intentions of trying to change stuff in seanchan and use his new position as prince of ravens for good is BARELY there in the actual text, if at all. the show needs to make it explicit. we don't need to witness the destruction of the empire within the show, it's fine to leave that as a post-canon loose end, but we need to feel confident that mat Has Plans and isn't just going to sit around being a slaver empress's yes-man for the rest of his life, because that's not his character.)

anyway, back to the show! i'm sure their 8-season plan includes a proper mat/tuon romance arc, but i think of all the PRIMARY romances (so not counting moiraine/thom & siuan/bryne which totally are not happening regardless) this one's the most likely to get cut if they DON'T get the full 8 seasons. perrin/faile and rand/aviendha will definitely be happening in s3, and the show already announced its rand/elayne intentions with that romantic meet-cute shot. i could see rand/min being cut and the polycule only being avirandlayne if the show only goes to 5 seasons (which may be why the show's withholding the polycule viewing for now, to play it safe in case they can't get to it all), but any more than that and i think rand/min will make it in (not that i would be mad if it didn't............just saying!). egwene/gawyn is also at risk for the chopping block in a less-than-8-seasons scenario since they get together so late in the story, but it IS plot-crucial that they're at least warder-bonded and emotionally connected in SOME way by the last battle.

mat/tuon, though, in addition to being one of the latest-game ships, there is 0 story reason they need to have a significant emotional connection. the only story necessity from that relationship is mat corralling the seanchan army to fight in the last battle, which can be accomplished just as well by a feelings-free political marriage (and in the books even this was mostly accomplished by rand lmao mat barely did shit in getting the seanchan to TLB). so i could definitely imagine feelings-free political marriage, with maybe the Implication that feelings might develop later, being their "fewer-seasons backup plan" for mat/tuon. it will be very interesting to see whether mat gets his marriage prophecy next season and see whether the show is willing to commit to that marriage as early as s3! i think this MARRIAGE prophecy is less risky to include early than the polycule LOVE prophecy, because you can always last-minute cram a political marriage into whatever ends up being the final season but you can't cram in actual love without enough time to develop it.

[heart-stomper]

Unspoken Trust, Unspoken Fears

Gathering my thoughts on Sasha and Marcy’s dynamic before S3 proves me wrong shows us what’s going on with these two.

It’s time to look at The Dinner and Battle of the Bands, and then use it as a guide to read the room in True Colors.

No worries! You just gotta speak their language. - Sasha, Reunion

Or in this case, know when to stay quiet. 

Sasha gets really really frustrated this episode. Like, so bad, that if that Volcakeno didn’t erupt, she might have been the one to end the friendship. Even Marcy and Grime couldn’t calm her down. But that’s the thing, before this point, they were the only ones to get through to Sasha without provoking her.

Grime keeps Sasha in line; she rolls her eyes and is clearly annoyed every time she has to hold herself back, but her willingness to keep it cool shows she ultimately agrees with Grime’s plan and sees it as the best path to success.  When Marcy chimes in, it’s with a helpful answer to Sasha’s question. She reminds Sasha of why they stopped Doing Thing by explaining how their plan failed. She avoids judging Sasha for it, and frames it as the repercussions of their actions, as a group. Marcy is on Sasha’s side, so Sasha doesn’t put up any defenses. When Sasha decides to avoid arguing with Anne however, it isn’t for Anne. It’s for the plan, for her and Grime.

Marcy has enough faith in Sasha to believe she’d never want to purposefully hurt Anne, but is careful about broaching the subject. Sasha feels attacked very easily, and will quickly trivialize or downplay things if she feels the other person is being unreasonable or doesn’t ‘get’ her.

And that is the only time Marcy speaks up besides The Big Argument. She only jumps into actual conflicts if things get too heated. Otherwise, she just lets Sasha do her thing, and lets Anne argue with Sasha... sort of.

This isn’t collaboration. It’s a hostile takeover. Why do things always have to be your way?

Now, for the bait and switch. Let’s talk about Marcy’s behavior in Day at the Aquarium and New Wartwood, and Sasha’s in Toadcatcher and Barrel’s Warhammer… while tying it all back to Battle of Bands!

You didn’t tell me you were writing a song! Let’s do it! I mean, if that’s okay with you, Sasha.

In A Day at the Aquarium, Marcy’s first instinct to Anne saying she’s going back with the Plantars is to make a plan. To show that it isn’t actually what will benefit Anne’s Goals. She doesn’t even consider opening up as an option, and avoids saying anything that could cause conflict. New Wartwood, Marcy tries to chat with the citizens of Wartwood and get to know them. But when that doesn’t work, she decides that impressing them with her knowledge and usefulness is bound to make them like her. It has to.

It does seem simpler.

Trying to win people over by claiming a plan is of mutual interest and necessary, carefully choosing which words to use, viewing relationships as a puzzle to be solved… this isn’t the sort of thing Marcy needs to do to get along with someone like Anne. It’s how Marcy copes with Sasha. Sasha lashes out and belittles bad ideas. Sasha has to be convinced the plan benefits her, suits her. Vulnerability and love aren’t enough to make her care, so Marcy does what she can to prove she’s worth being around. She might even sometimes wonder if Sasha actually likes her, or just likes what she can do for her. She rather not find out.

Whenever she’s afraid of people not liking her, or is worried that she’ll lose them, she dives right into those bad habits. She can give her opinions, but they aren’t supposed to get in the way of what Sasha wants. She’s supposed to say “That’s amazing! What do you think Sash’?” not “Let’s do it!”

Listen. There’s another reason why I’ve been training so hard. To protect the one person I know I can count on right now. You. You’re right, I already lost one friend. I’m not about to lose another. - Sasha, Toadcatcher

In Toadcatcher, there’s that scene, where Sasha looks at the BFF picture and the wind cuts off Anne for a second so it’s just her and Marcy. This is where Sasha is at. Anne might have rebelled, but when Sasha reunites with Marcy? Oh, she’ll show Anne, one way or another. They’ll get her back (like, joining the team or revenge wise, depending on Sasha’s mood.)

Listen here you buffoon! What’s it gonna take to prove that you should follow us? - Barrel’s Warhammer

Aaaand Sasha freaks out royally when she learns the two are alone together and doing just fine. On some level, she fears Anne and Marcy “getting along without her” because it means they might decide they don’t actually need her to make plans; that she isn’t necessary to have fun. In the The Sleepover to End All Sleepovers, we see that isn’t as big a catastrophe as Sasha seems to think it’d be. As time goes on, the girls do gain a healthier relationship to their feelings about Sasha, but that doesn’t mean they’d want her gone even if they don’t need her there. But Sasha doesn’t know that, she doesn’t even consider it till reuniting in The Third Temple. All she knows for now, is that she can be a bit... much... so if she isn’t in control, if her way isn’t “the best”, why would Marcy put up with her either? 

Listen. If things get too wild out here, just give me a signal and I’ll call the whole thing off. 

 For sure, teach it to us Anne. 

Every Sasha plan starts with an empty reassurance. So much of Sasha’s dialogue follows a pattern where she says stuff like “we’ll call it off” (she did not call it off) and “for sure, I don’t mind” (she did mind) that it could be it’s own game. Sasha talks the talk, until it gets in the way of what she wants.

Sorry guys, but we’re way to close to bail. I am not going back empty-handed.

It’s good. I just have a few tiny notes that I think could make it even better. ... Boom! Fiixed it! 

If they just follow her lead and let her fix it, everything will work out. They should believe in her and trust her. After all...

That’s not true! Besides, we did it. ... You’re not actually gonna throw this all away are you?

I just wanted all of us to succeed. I was just being a good friend. Why couldn’t they see that?

It all worked out, right? Percy and Braddock made it out okay even if she didn’t follow through on her promise. They won, she’s reliable. But of course, Sasha lost something more important than their belief in her abilities, she lost their trust. In Battle of the Bands however, Sasha recognizes that Anne and Marcy don’t want to follow her ambitions and will be pushed away by them just like Percy and Braddock were. So she takes it upon herself to end things, accepting that she’s lost.

Sorry it took so long.

Except this time, she manages to realize that maybe “what she wants” is to be there for her friends. Sasha’s finally had the space to relax and really think about what she wants, at least a little. This isn’t a real battle after all. Doing things her way all the time isn’t as important as she thought. Maybe she should trust in her friends more. A change of pace isn’t “wrong”, just different. It’s fun.

Sorry we lost, Sash’.

Just like Percy and Braddock, Marcy knows Sasha is capable. She understands that Sasha just wants the team to succeed. That’s why she apologizes when Grime beats them in the competition. She wants Sasha to know she appreciates what she did, but keeps it a bit indirect. She gets Sasha probably didn’t want to push them away. Marcy tried to catch herself and back Sasha up, but when Sasha had her argument with Anne, she stayed quiet. She couldn’t bring herself to go against Anne. 

That was ultimately for the best, as Sasha learned a valuable lesson. Except... She’s in too deep with the rebellion to back out now. This is the episode she’d spill the truth and give up on the whole thing, except... Grime. A part of her knows leaving would make Grime her enemy. She can’t risk that. So, she keeps going with the plan. She decides she’ll somehow win it all back. Because the thing she’s actually most afraid of, is losing another friend. 

Sorry things got a little crazy back there. You guys good? ... Sheesh, don’t be a sore loser. Look, I’m gonna stay here and get this toad regime off the ground, but I can totally send you two home if you want. Or, you can stick around and give me a hand! So what’d’ya say?

Sasha’s final offer; the last chance she’s giving the girls to stop acting weird and go back to being her obedient friends who do what she wants. Sasha lost at Toad Tower, but now she’s won. So Anne should go back to normal, she’s supposed to, like some unspoken “rule”.

And Marcy is supposed fall back in line too. The offer and apology are just as much a plea directed at her. Sasha’s trying to be generous, in her own awkward way. She has bit her tongue so far. She’s thrown a temper tantrum or two, but she hasn’t been this forward in asking Marcy for help till now. She wants Marcy to say that everything’s okay. Make it clear she doesn’t think she’s the bad guy, and that she forgives her and wants to be there for her. That they’re on the same page again. She wants Marcy to help make Anne look overly dramatic and silly for making such a big deal of all this. Sure, if Anne figures that out by herself, that’d be great, but if Marcy could just speak up.

But she doesn’t. Of course she doesn’t.

Marcy’s too busy worrying about Anne’s reaction. Knowing that she’ll be upset about this. She doesn’t dare side with Sasha, and is disappointed and betrayed that she actually did something like this. Marcy already has her own secret plans, so when she finally tries to calm things down, all she can give is a non-descript “we can still fix this”. And then, she’s once again shocked when she sees Sasha threaten Anne and the Plantars. Seeing Sasha act so willing to actually hurt people rather than just push them around... it finally hits her just how serious “tried to kill them” was. And of course, losing Anne or being sent home with her would completely mess up her own plans.

Sasha’s isn’t a vulnerable person. She’ll go on about loving her friends if it makes her look good, but she actively avoids doing anything that could be seen as “weak”. She wouldn’t dare ask Marcy to drop Anne and choose her. If Marcy isn’t speaking up, she can take the hint. She still isn’t on her side, and so she gets sent to the dungeon along with the rest of them.

Marcy accepts that Sasha has become an obstacle, but a part of her still hopes the three of them can work through all this. If they do things her way, nobody has to get hurt. She'll figure out a way hold everything together, fix everything, like always.

And then Andrias betrays her.

Yeah, what plan?

Sasha stops talking once she realizes what’s going on. Quietly fuming as Marcy explains herself. The music box, the suggestion to take it back to Andrias... that wasn’t Marcy being the sweet, supportive friend who Sasha thought she could always rely on, who believed in her... that was Marcy using her. It was never going to become their plan; Marcy never trusted her and was actively working against her. Sasha lost Anne, and she never had a chance at getting Marcy back, either. 

Sasha smacks Marcy away when she desperately tries to justify herself. She doesn’t want to hear it anymore. She’s furious that Marcy thinks they could be friends after something like this, after she’s manipulated them and claimed it was for their sakes. This whole time, her goal had been avoiding the move with her parents. And coming here has only torn them apart even worse.

Marcy reaches out to both girls. And when Sasha rejects her, she clings to Anne, hoping at least she’ll find it in her to forgive her. That she’ll understand she cares about them even if she messed up. Marcy knows they’d probably never pick her over their families or ambitions, so she told herself this place offered those things too. Made them all better people. But as she says her excuses out loud, she can’t find a single one that feels right. She was just afraid of losing them, and now, she’s managed to hurt them on top of that. 

But the thing is. After all that. Despite how betrayed and hurt and angry Sasha was, she looks like this:

Sasha realizes this must be exactly how Anne felt about her betrayal. It isn’t just an abstract “hurt” or “bad thing” anymore. She can also sympathize with how Marcy feels and why she did it, at least a little. She can’t imagine being able to forgive this, and yet... when she looks to Anne with that apologetic look, she isn’t just hoping Anne will forgive her. She’s also asking for permission to forgive Marcy. Pleading that they all still have a chance to move past this together.

[kaypeace21]

The ‘parentification’ of Jonathan Byers (psych analysis)

“Parentification is defined as the phenomenon where children take caregiving responsibilities (acting as a parent)  for their parents, siblings or other family members, at the expense of their own developmental needs.”

When can parentification occur?

1) After a “Divorce”   

“If there is more than one child in the family, usually the eldest, is “chosen” to be parentified .When a father-figure is missing, it may be the eldest son who is forced to take on his father's responsibilities.”

2) When there’s a “parent with a mental illness “

3)“Parental alcoholism or drug addiction.” (lonnie’s place covered in beer cans could allude to this).

4) “siblings with a mental illness’

5) “Death of a sibling or parent” (  This point is kind of cheating - but the fact Jon as a 15 y old had to plan a funeral, for his little brother instead of either one of his parents just illustrates how he always was forced to do adult duties much too young.)

6) “mothers of low socio-economic status, are frequently associated with parentification of their children. “

“given the fact that there are many single parent families, it falls upon children from some of these homes to carry adult responsibilities while their parent is out working. Often, in these situations, the parent is asking or expecting the child to take on adult responsibilities in their absence. They become the parent of the household in the interim between coming home from school and when the parent returns to the household.”

***TO MAKE THINGS VERY CLEAR: we are NOT hating on Joyce, here! “The harm of parentification is usually done not out of malicious intent. However, when a child who is supposed to go through their natural cycles of development and self- evolution,  is forced to grow up too quickly, there is a cost.” But, Joyce did what she had to do being a poor single mother - she had to work! Even when Lonnie was around- he had debts. And Joyce apologized to Jon for not being around when they were growing up (working since he was 5)- and she even mentioned working Hollidays . But at the end of s1, we see her celebrating Christmas eve with them (showing she’s trying to have a better work life balance for her kids and prioritize them more).  I think Will’s disappearance gave Joyce a wake-up call of sorts about what she values most-her kids.She loves her kids more than anything- and  would never intentionally do any harm. She has to work for all of them to survive and stay together. But it did force Jon to be parent to Will in her absence (especially cause Lonnie even when around wasn’t much help).

And in s3 it’s hinted Joyce plans to be there for her kids on Thanksgiving and Christmas- so she is trying to rectify past behaviors. Ok with that out of the way,  now we can continue...

 Types of Parentification 

“Parentification can either be emotional or instrumental, or both.”

“EMOTIONAL PARENTIFICATION : is when the child becomes a source of constant emotional support to their parent or sibling.Emotional parentification often involves a child or adolescent taking on the role and responsibilities of confidant, secret keeper, or emotional healer for family members.”

“ Parentification can also be the the process of role reversal where a child is obliged to act as parent to their own parent. Examples being: Listening to a parent talk about their problems.Serving as a confidante for their parent or providing emotional comfort and support to a parent.”

  “In cases of INSTRUMENTAL PARENTIFICATION: children take on practical responsibilities such as:Taking care of siblings or other relatives because a parent is unable to. Assuming housekeeping duties, such as cleaning, cooking,  grocery shopping. And Paying bills and attending to other household tasks .”

“ It’s good for kids to have responsibilities such as chores around the house or babysitting for a younger sibling. Responsibilities should increase when a child becomes a teenager to prepare them for being on their own eventually. However, when a young child is responsible for , paying the electricity bill, or raising a younger sibling, that is when problems arise.”

“Imagine a child who is bombarded every day with the responsibilities to tuck in sisters or brothers, or read them bedtime stories; organize drinks or food, wash up dishes, pay bills, or a myriad of housework. When burdened with that many responsibilities, self-care tends to go out the window. If the child continues to attend school, they may be withdrawn, unkempt, and visibly exhausted.”

“The effects are worsened and more destructive for the development of the child, the more the care-giving efforts of the child become a normalized expectation.“

 We see this in Joyce berating Jon for not parenting Will, properly (although her being upset was somewhat reasonable). But ,we also see this in how Joyce  says Jonathan has “always been good at taking care of himself.” Assuming Jon is ok, when he’s actually not. While Lonnie simply insults Will saying “he was never good at taking care of himself.”  The difference being Joyce criticizes Jon for not relying on her more. While Lonnie critiques Will for simply acting like a child and not being self-reliant, like Jonathan. Pretty heavily hinting, Lonnie even when around did very little parenting and expected the kids to take care of themselves. And since Will didn’t ‘take care of himself’ - it probably put the load on Jonathan to parent Will (when Joyce wasn’t around, even when Lonnie was physically there).

Consequences of Parentification

“ It is expected that complicated relationship patterns will develop between siblings.  The parentified sibling can often develop a symbiotic, codependent relationship with their siblings.”

“These people are very likely to find themselves in similar relational patterns in adulthood. They believe they must serve, help and rescue everyone in need. As adults, they may find that they have a confused sense of self-identity beyond the helper role. The only way they learned to relate, was through being of service and providing caregiving- so it is extremely possible that they have to be the primary caregivers for their own romantic partners . Since they never learned anything different. “

“ The ‘helper role’ might have dominated their entire being. Their sense of self did not get fully developed before they were needed to care for others, so as a result, they don’t know who they are except when they are doing things for others. “

“Parentified children can become very angry people. Sometimes this adult child may not know why they are angry . They can have explosive anger or passive anger, especially when someone triggers their parental wounds of emotional exploitation.”

“Parentified children inevitably develop a distorted image of what love is supposed to be like, thereby growing up to be quite distrustful of interpersonal relationships overall.Complicated attachment patterns emerge as a result. An avoidant attachment style is not unlikely. In the absence of a nurturing provider of safety and care, the parentified child may have learned to utterly depend on themselves alone- thereby avoiding close bonds and intimacy in adult life.intimacy is both craved for and avoided, both a longing and a great threat. Underneath this facade, they are quite lonely.”

This is similar to Jonathan not having friends, ‘not liking most people’, having ‘trust issues’ caused by Lonnie (that caused distrust of Bob, a father-figure) and simply being afraid to talk to people in general. Or joyce calling out Jonathan saying “you act like you’re all alone in this world. But your not.”

‘They also tend to blame themselves for everything that goes wrong, and constantly try to fix things that cannot be fixed.’

“The child may appear highly capable to tend for themselves and others, very mature for their age, resilient and even wise beyond their years- but they lack the safe haven of a secure attachment figure that is vital for the development of emotional regulation.”

A parentified teenager or younger child may exhibit the following symptoms:

-”Anxiety”

Like... this hurt my soul!  His face dropped the second Nancy left the room.He probably has anxiety but looks up to Joyce for trying to still be a good mom and keep it together. Why he said “WE’LL be okay” cause his mom is  “tough”.  He tries to lead by her example. But unlike Joyce, Jon probably always had to keep it together- even if struggling with similar anxiety issues as Joyce. Because he knew they both couldn’t act that way and “shut down” (for Will’s sake). He always had to put on a fake ‘grown-up’ front and keep the family together and help support Joyce and Will emotionally and finacially . And someone (unintentionally) saying the reason he’s like his mom is not because of her positive traits but because of her mental illness- must have HURT! Especially cause he’s probably already struggling with anxiety-  and maybe even fears acknowledging it. Because he’s supposed to have it ‘all together.’ “The identity of parentified children actually depends on their ability to suppress their needs. Since it is likely that their family already had too many problems to cope with, and so they learned to be quiet, voiceless and without demands. In order to be a ‘proper helper’ .“

And it probably doesn’t help he’s afraid it could escalate into something worse. Because in s1 they mentioned Joyce’s aunt having hallucinations. And jonathan even says to hopper “she used to have anxiety problems. I’m worried it could be ... I don’t know.” So yeah , Nancy saying him and Joyce have the same anxiety problems probably terrified him.

-”Depression”

-”Inability to trust others (we covered that) and or social isolation.”

-”Compulsively overworking in order to fulfill responsibilities at school and at home.”

-”Feelings of guilt and shame.”

“Fortunately, there are many healing processes and routes to wholeness and recovery for a young adult or adult who has been parentified as a child.Acknowledgment of your past is the first step to healing and recovery (via therapy or other means). You have to accept the truth of your story. Because, if you continue to live in denial, your mental energy will be spent in suppressing the pain that was there, rather than healing what needs to be healed. Being highly self-reliant was your only option in your household , but it may be a strategy that no longer works for you. It keeps you in isolation and unable to connect with others. Therefore, challenging yourself to connect with others authentically would also be considered one of the most potent ways to heal. The thoughts, feelings, impressions, and emotions buried within are waiting to be heard, once and for all.  “

Alright, thanks for listening I hope you enjoyed.  I really wanted to do a psych analysis strictly based on what the show presents. Rather than inclusion of the s4 movies. I did mention how those movies did allude to Jonathan’s parentification, here (if interested though). I also didn’t go into the hints in the narrative of Lonnie possibly being s****lly abusive to Jonathan cause it’s a bit more speculative ( I did talk about it in my DID psych analyses pt 1 & pt 2 though). Only mentioning it here, at the end, since one of the causes of parentification is also a parent s****lly ab*sing their kids (quite literally stripping their kids of their entire childhood in every way imaginable- and frankly the worst way possible). Regardless,I think most people neglect Jonathan as a character- and the s4 movies hint we’ll finally get more focus on him in the upcoming seasons. So I wanted to dedicate a post to some of Jonathan’s issues that may get more attention in later seasons.

[scripted-downfall]

Have you received any asks about OUAT recently? I was going to ask you about your favorite characters and ships, but I don't think that I ever sent anything in.

I have not received any prior to this, but I'm happy to have gotten yours now! I warn you now that I'm writing this purely off the top of my head, without having rewatched in a good half-year at minimum, but I shall do my best!

Favorite characters: All the conventional villains, for sure. It helps that I'm a big fan of character development (both in terms of their evolutions on-show, and in terms of looking at how they became they villains --- or "villains", depending on the case --- that they ended up being), and just analysis in general. I loved Regina and Rumple ever since their introductions in s1, and Hook ever since his in s2. How much I like their characters varies by season, of course, but they're all really enjoyable to watch, more or less throughout. (e.g. Rumple was a character I adored in the first three seasons, and then he became one I love to hate... if that makes sense?) Zelena was another awesome villain, and so was Peter Pan. All of the performers did a really good job, the writing was usually pretty ubiquitously good/interesting, and, frankly, they tend to be less hypocritical. Also, Jefferson and Will Scarlet were two characters I always remember really fondly but thought we didn't see enough of; I've never been able to watch the Wonderland version of OUAT, though, and I think they both get developed in there? I'll have to find a way to watch that one of these days.

Potential hot take: most of the outright "heroes", I don't tend to like. I like Emma --- but she's not really a conventional "hero", so that isn't really a surprise --- and I probably like all of them at some point or another (except the Blue Fairy. not her. ever.) but it's a rare "hero" who ranks in my favorites book. I did really like Robin Hood, and I can't quite tell if he's a "hero" or not... I mean, my instinct is to say yes, but he did have the whole chaotic good outlaw, steal-from-the-rich-give-to-the-poor thing going. (Luckily, since OUAT basically thrived on changing perceptions on the definition of hero vs villain, maybe it doesn't much matter. I honestly can't keep track of who's what at any given time since it's so blurred.) I also felt like his character suffered a bit as his part of the show went on, and he kinda got diluted to just being a love interest... but I haven't watched in a while, like I said, so maybe that's just a mis-recollection.

As for ships... I definitely appreciate Captain Swan (Emma and Hook), and I very much don't like Swanfire (Emma and Bae). (Note: my issues with SF come, not from an issue with it interfering in CS --- I, personally, am a fan of multishipping, and recognizing that someone can have a good relationship with multiple people at varying points in their lives --- but from an issue with SF itself, and with Baelfire in general.) I wish that Milah had been more developed, but what little we saw of Millian (Milah and Killian) seemed decent; she definitely seemed way happier as a pirate queen than in her unhealthy life with Rumple. I always felt like Mulan should have at least had a chance to talk to Aurora and see if they could work things out (especially because I never liked OUAT!Phillip, ngl). I have vague memories of being on board with Outlaw Queen (Regina and Robin), but, as I said, I did feel like Robin eventually got solely relegated to being the Love Interest, and I don't think that did his character justice.

A brief bonus section: Rumbelle (Rumple and Belle) might have started out okay, but it quickly devolved into being unhealthy, so I can't in good conscience list it as a pure favorite... I think it was decent at first --- again, it's been a bit since I watched s1/s2 --- so that's why it gets mentioned, but the tail end of s3 and on through s4? That's when he goes back to lying and manipulating, and the ship crashes (imo).

I hope that answers your question decently, and, if you have a specific character/ship you wanted me to address more in detail, I'm happy to answer something else! Thanks for the ask!

[smithy-smith]

I love This Way Up series 2. Did it go the exact way I hoped? No. But I honestly think that I appreciated how much more real and three dimensional the characters all felt as a result of that. Although some aspects of the series felt a touch clunkier than S1, I think a lot of that can be put down to the fact that they had to work under some pretty strict COVID restrictions while filming. I’d be interested to know how Aisling Bea envisioned this series going before it had to be written to work during lockdown and if that meant significant changes to the scripts.

Anyway, more thoughts under the cut…

Shona & Áine : 10/10 sibling dynamic. They love each other so much. Are they verging on co-dependent? Probably a little bit, but it works for them. They would both kill each other and kill for each other at a moment’s notice, and I love that for them. Their interactions feel so real and you can truly get a sense of their deep love and affection for each other. If I tried to list all of my favourite Áine and Shona moments then I’d be here all day, but some highlights are: the whole time that  Áine is ‘helping’ Shona to unpack, the haemorrhoid, and also Áine and Shona lying on the floor together at the end. S1 was so much of Shona being there for Áine (understandably!) that it’s amazing to see that get flipped, and for it to be made explicitly clear that this isn’t just a case of the younger sibling relying totally on the older one. They need each other, and that’s wonderful!

Shona/Charlotte: I feel like we got more confirmation of something I’d sort of suspected- that Charlotte wasn’t Shona’s first foray into sleeping with other women, but that it was probably the first time that feelings got involved. I get the impression that she’s probably had one night stands with women, but relationships with men, and so as soon as Charlotte said that she was falling for her, Shona completely panicked. Charlotte was right to feel hurt and used, and that whole scene where they had it out in the office was so raw and painful. I’m glad they went down that route, and that it is clear that if they do reconcile then they’ll need to do a lot of work to get there. Ideally, I’d love that to be the outcome, but I’m happy to be along for the ride whatever happens at this point!

Shona/Vish: I love Vish, I think he’s sweet, but it still feels like he and Shona are on different pages. Maybe even different books, at least when it comes to their relationship. Him being away for this series really worked, as it allowed Shona to miss him and feel like she wants to connect with him, without the reality of him actually being around. I think it’s clear that she’s burying a lot of her feelings and it’s much easier for her to do that if he isn’t there. I really want see the fallout of that voice note…

Áine/Richard: God love them, but they need to sit down and actually talk. I think they’re super sweet together and that they could be really good for each other, but it’s obvious that Áine is having issues with telling Richard about rehab and her breakdown, and that she’s kind of terrified about what telling him will mean. (I get it. I too get that anxious panicky feeling every time I’m about to talk to other people about my mental health issues. I dread the thought of watching their face change in real time as they realise what a fucked-up mess I actually am…) Richard on the other hand is still dealing with the fact that he became the father of a teenager overnight, and is clearly still struggling to regain a sense of control over his identity as a result. That, combined with his intense level of Repressed British Awkwardness™ is definitely having an impact on how they communicate with each other. Him telling Étienne without talking to Áine first is the peak example of this- that is 100% a conversation they should have had with each other first, even though ultimately it was the right thing to do at this point. Fingers crossed that we’ll get a S3 as I really want to see if that communication issue gets resolved, or if it will be the death of their relationship… They had some really cute moments this series, and some moments with more honest and open communication, so I’m hopeful that they might be able to work things out, it definitely seems like that is an option for them!

Áine/Bradley: I LOVED that we got more Áine and Bradley time this series! Their flatmate dynamic in S1 was great, it very much seemed to sit in the ‘we’re friendly, but we’re not 100% certain that we are friends’ category, and his loud relationship with Emma was clearly a bit of an awkward sticking point, for obvious reasons! But this series they’ve spent more time together on screen and they are clearly solid friends- with potentially something more simmering away… I loved him giving Áine advice on how to be sexy and flirt with Richard when they were having problems, and his obvious acceptance of all her quirks as a housemate. In the fundraiser ep he was not feeling Richard’s vibes, which was understandable given Áine’s obvious insecurity and worries, and let’s be honest, what he’s heard about Richard so far probably hasn’t been the most flattering or reassuring! Áine turning to Bradley when she found out about Tom dying, knowing that he would be there and support her! The fact that he already knows about rehab, and it doesn’t seem to make a difference to how he treats her! Plus, that conversation at the end?? When he was saying ‘wouldn’t it be nice to be with someone you can relax with’?? It definitely seems like he is working through some stuff of his own, and that maybe he is starting to potentially see  Áine as that person… At the moment, it feels like their relationship is teetering on the cusp- if it tips one way he can fit into the protective ‘older brother’ friend mould, looking out for  Áine and supporting her. Or it could tip the other way and they could perhaps be at the beginning of something more romantic…

Étienne: he is so big! I’m hazarding a guess that he wasn’t in this series as much because it’s easier to send him off to France so that they don’t have to worry about exposing the child actor to COVID, but perhaps that was always the plan. His relationship with Richard seems to be improving slightly, but is obviously still a bit difficult for them both to negotiate. Again, fingers crossed for a S3 where he can be more involved, as I really want to see the fallout from Richard telling him about his relationship with Áine, and the change of tutors. God I wish Richard had waited for Áine before he did anything!

I haven’t even touched on the exciting development of Áine and James going into business together, and what that would mean for Áine’s personal growth. (Also her friendship with James! Hooray for Áine having more friends!) But this is already HELLA long so maybe I’ll dig into that another time :) 

Fingers crossed for S3, I think there’s still so much left to explore with these characters, and I hope that we get the chance to see that!