#and robin tim fans were like fuck yeah

[oifaaa]

Your Tim gives big “peaked in high-school” energy, but I doubt he peaked in high-school, so maybe he peaked at being Robin, thus creating new trauma in the family, and maybe hero community

Oh Tim 100% is the peaked in high-school guy like dude was having a ball he was super popular constantly had girls falling over themselves for him and he was Robin- the fact that Tim is so reluctant to let robin go is literally the biggest tell of all that this boy is trying desperately to hang on to how things used to be

[clockwayswrites]

Orange, City Pigeon, Danny & Batfam @roanawayspoons WC: 864 CW: Blood, injury

“I’m just saying, you shouldn’t get to be Red by default.”

“Well I can’t be Robin and Hood is a unique identifier.”

“No, nope, just because you weren’t creative enough to come up with something other than Red Robin you shouldn’t get to just claim Red.”

“Creative enough? Oh that’s rich from the man who ripped off the Joker.”

“It was poetic!”

“It was lazy.”

“Look here, bird bones—” …and Tim was gone, Jason thought with a sigh. He turned back to see Tim still before the last jump, staring down into the alleyway with a tilted head. Jason’s hand went to one of his guns. “Red?”

“Blood.”

“And? It’s Gotham. I think the city is held together by blood at this point.”

“Green blood, Hood.”

“How do you know it’s blood then?” Jason asked, but stalked forward to look. Alright, maybe the splatter was pretty distinctive.

That particular shade of green was also concernedly distinctive.

“Well, fuck.”

“Yep.”

“Who bleeds Lazarus water?”

“No clue,” Tim said unhelpfully. “Guess we better find out.”

They dropped silently down into the alley, one after another, and followed the trail of toxic green blood. The trail went cold a few times, whoever was bleeding was clearly trying to hide, but they were inexperienced at it and the Bats had spent enough time stalking through the streets of this city that the cement and stone basically spoke to them. The trail couldn’t hide from them.

Without warning, Jason shot his arm out to stop Tim. He tapped the side of his helmet silently; he heard something. Tim nodded and they fanned out to search. A door in this latest alley they were in was cracked open, like someone had tried to close it and it had bounced back off the latch.

A green hand print was smeared down it.

Jason pulled a gun from his holster, but let Tim go through first. While Jason was far lighter on his feet than someone his size should be, there was no denying that Tim was stealthier. Jason would be just a few steps behind ready to provide the muscles and firepower.

It was odd, then, when Tim purposefully let his foot scrape against the ground as he rounded the corner. Jason just cursed silently as the idiot continued forward, cutting himself off from Jason’s line of sight. “Hey, looks like you could use some help with that wound before you bleed out.”

Jason couldn’t hear what was said back; he edged closer.

“You must not be from Gotham. I’m Red Robin, one of the heroes here.”

The person snorted. “Just… over… then?”

Tim laughed. It was one of his many fake laughs, but the one meant to soothe people in trouble. “Why would I do that? I’m a vigilante. Do you know how illegal what I do is? I just don’t want to see you bleed out. Maybe I can even take you to a safe house where you can rest.

“So… interrogate me?”

“I mean, I’d like to know who tried to kill a kid, but that’s to make them pay, not you.”

Jason’s hand gripped his gun so tightly it hurt.

The person… the kid laughed. It was a broken sound that no kid should have to make.

Jason had heard it a lot on the streets.

“Maybe I deserve it.” Their voice was raspy, like every word caught in their throat.

Jason came around the corner. The kid went rigid, which was the last thing they needed with how blood seeped from their fingers where their pale hand was clutched against a too big hoodie.

Tim leaned casually into Jason's space in a way he wouldn’t normally, putting on a show for the kid that Red Hood was safe. It was at least true for the kid. Jason leaned back, mostly for the comfort of having his brother close in the face of the sight. Seeing bloody kids never got easier.

“You’re what, sixteen?” Jason asked.

“…fifteen?”

“Yeah, no fifteen year old deserves to bleed out. You know who I am?”

They shook their head. It dislodged the hood a little. The tangled, chin length hair was startling white and splattered with dried green blood. Jason forced himself to take a breath.

“I’m Red Hood. I protect part of this city called Crime Alley. I’m not afraid to kill a shithead, especially ones that hurt kids, but I never harm a kid. I’ve got places to put you if you need somewhere safe; places not in the system. Or get you somewhere. Do you have a place to go to?”

The kid laughed again. Somehow it sounded worse this time. “That’s the thing. I do. I might, I guess. Just no one is going to believe me.”

“Why won’t they believe you? Where do you need to get?” Tim asked.

The kid looked up. Jason felt Tim tense against him. Hell, Jason tensed. They were the wrong color, but Jason knew those eyes, those brows, that slope of the nose. Everything was just a little sideways, but Jason knew that face. He knew what the kid was going to say.

“I need to get to Bruce Wayne.”

--- AN: Happy Trauma Tuesday~

Feel free to continue this, use it as a prompt if you'd like!

[glitter-stained]

I've seen many people point out that canon members of the Batfam would hate their fanon counterpart (rightfully), I would like to highlight that fanon Bruce would deck canon Bruce upon five minutes of meeting him

Literally the reason why comics fan who actually read the comics and people who were starting to get into the comics feel intimidated/disgusted/ are either taking a break or straight up giving up on canon recently is how exhausting it is to see him behave like an abusive piece of shit and the narrative go "um actually he was right ☝️" or "yeah they were both at fault here but don't worry they hug it out". ( Between that, the intense victim-blaming and the classist/racist/sexist/ableist narratives, I understand the fatigue, you can only eat so much shit in the hopes of finding chocolate before you give up on the cake.)

Anyway, canon and fanon Bruce meeting:

Fanon Bruce: yeah, I do wish Jason wouldn't kill people in Gotham... I let him get away with more, I know I'm being soft on him compared to the others because he's my baby and I'm afraid to lose him again, but I wish he would stop...

Canon Bruce: have you tried beating him into a coma?

Fanon Bruce: what?

Canon Bruce (half-possessed by the entity he himself created): if it doesn't work, you could install a failsafe in his dna that gives him a a paralyzing panic attack when his adrenaline spikes!

Fanon Bruce: ...did you torture and murder your son ? how the fuck is the kid still alive at that point

*****

Fanon Bruce: I don't know what to get Tim for his 16th birthday... Maybe a camera? And some kind of expensive coffee blend, he'd like that...

Canon Bruce: Tim doesn't drink coffee

Fanon Bruce : Oh really? What should I get him then?

Canon Bruce: I have a suggestion.

*****

Canon Bruce: yes, honestly Cassandra not having a legal identity does have its advantages...

Fanon Bruce : *sighs and opens the batcomputer*

*****

Canon Bruce: yeah, everyone was mad at Dick after I convinced him to fake his death to go undercover in Spyral... He was a bit unruly but we sparred it out, thankfully I could beat the stubbornness out of him. ^^ I'm also very glad I got Duke to give up on that silly Lark idea and told him to become Signal! The last thing the world needs is another reckless Robin who gets himself killed like Jason and Stephanie did.

Fanon Bruce : r/AskReddit: Is it murder if I kill my evil counterpart and kidnap his children? I have a no-kill rule but I never considered it to apply to suicide, I'm hoping there's a loophole there.

[hana-no-seiiki]

Hi! I’m the one who asked about Cat Villain! Reader theme lol. It’s nice to have a person to think as same as me, anyway civilians probably confusing about how all 4 Robins so fond of the villain but they still have that kind of rivalry to them, at least in civilians’ views. STILL

I’d like to add another trailer song that I often use when rotting over cat villain! reader

Eula’s theme is such a good one for heists/a little tango with the bois.

I feel like the general public have a general clue as to the relationship of cat villain! reader and the robins

purely because some of the guys (*cough* Jason *cough*) has fucked them in public, and as much as Gotham is unsafe at night, and no matter how many measures the boys put to protect you, there will always be fanatics that’ll witness everything you guys do.

of course, the damning info is mostly kept in small circles due to the miraculous power of ‘paying people to take shit down’ the Waynes have but a lot of fans have headcannoned and could sometimes build an entirely accurate version of your relationships.

tim was definitely one of your top fansite keepers before he became robin (even though it wasn’t his main focus). he most likely influenced a very uh… ‘sasaeng’ type of attitude in your fandom. which wasn’t regulated well until he realized his mistakes. nowadays, he makes sure your fans are more tamed.

sometimes i imagine cat villain! reader to be a celebrity, less known in america and mostly abroad (bonus if you guys aren’t from there to begin with, so your popularity can just be focused on or around your home country) that is until they were suddenly seen with Dick Grayson in public. you two were very much young and not careful.

people know you as that person that dated Dick, and is now extremely close with his brother, Tim. Definitely scandalous. The only thing stopping Damian from being labeled as one of your conquests is that, dude only realized his feelings recently and he usually approaches your civilian form as Robin. why? Damian’s just a show off, but Robin can be a show off without being seen as arrogant. he’s just doing his job

you have your fair share of villain friends you enjoy hanging out/sleeping with. some of them do you favors in exchange for a night. mostly because they know it’ll piss off the Batboys and throw them off their game though it does come with the risk of being beaten down to death.

i also think it’d be funny if in civilian form as a celeb, cat villain! reader just likes to profess their ‘undying love’ to Bruce 24/7 and how he totally slept with them once and their heart has been taken since. just like to be a menace and cause more chaos with people accusing them of using his kids.

when you found out tim protected your image and generally surveyed posts about you 24/7 you got into a little argument cause you wanted the world to breakdown about your identity and the shit you’ve done

and last but not least, the only reason you haven’t been cancelled to non-existence is cause of your large donations to charity and very humble living. sure, you liked to troll the universe in its entirety but in the end cat villain! reader main purpose is to help the needy. you’re most likely one of Bruce’s biggest investors (again, just to be a little shit)

you’re a little shit yeah, but you’re the batfam’s little shit.

OH! and you like visiting Jason’s grave even after he came back. partly due to missing his old self, but it also assists with keeping his identity unknown with how often you guys are together.

bonus: you’ve interacted a fair bit with the batgirls and duke. by that i mean you’ve bullied them all at some point that it has become almost a christening ritual for you to be a menace to each member.

[rubydubydoo122]

could you talk more about fanon vs canon tim drake? i havent gotten too far into the comics yet but have seen a lot of him (mis?)characterized by others

Just a preface, I'm not gonna crucify any Tim fans who find themselves writing these tropes, because it is fandom, and everyone's allowed their own interpretations of the character, I'm just personally not a fan of these takes on Tim because in my mind they just don't make sense for the character. If anyone has differing opinions, feel free to (politely) explain them to me, because I'm happy to hear them.

Ok, so much like Fanon Dick Grayson, there are two versions of fanon Tim Drake.

There's version A.) where where he's one minor inconvienience away from becoming a supervillain (I understand where this one comes from and I don't HATE it) and there's version B.) where he was criminally neglected as a kid and is infantalized (This version of Tim I Loathe)

I'll start with version A. I see where it comes from. Mainly the Red Robin 2009 run, but we have to remember that Tim was grieving pretty much everyone close to him during that era. He was being self destructive because of that grief, and yeah, grief changes a person, but Tim is the type of character who would still turn out good despite all the hurt handed to him. Oh! But Gun Batman-- Tim actively chose against being that. He would rather kill himself than let himself become a version of Batman who went against everything Batman stood for. I know there are multiple storylines where Tim meets and evil future version of himself, but those versions would constantly be like a weight on him to be good. All in all, if I had to choose between the fanon Tim Drakes, I would choose villain Tim Drake, as long as it's done in more of a character-study way rather than a 'He deserves to go evil, as a treat' because it's an interesting take with the right motives.

Now onto Version B. Loser Tim Drake. The reason I Loathe this version of Tim is because it usually involves Characters Assassination of the characters around him. Ok, so do I agree that Tim Drake was somewhat neglected? Yes. But goddamit, the way I see Jack and Janet portrayed, you would think that they were running from the feds or something. They were good people, just bad parents. Maybe a little immature to raise a child, but it wasn't to the point where they would probably need to call CPS. Neglect isn't black and white, and the Drakes fell into that grey-- which I personally believe to be a lighter shade. You do have to remember that a lot of Tim's introduction was written in the 90's where parenting styles were a lot different compared to Today. Still, they sent him to boarding school, meaning they made sure that some form of adult was taking care of Tim AND a lot of people try to make Jack Drake out to be the villain for stopping Tim from being Robin, and blackmailing Bruce for it, but... It's What Any Sane Parent Would Do? I'm 18, but I know if I ever had a kid, and then fell into a coma and then woke up and found out that my Kid was fighting crime in one of the most CRIME RIDDEN CITIES alongside my middle-aged neighbor who dresses up like a furry I WOULD CALL THE FUCKING COPS. But enough about the Drakes. Because not only does Loser Tim Drake assassinate their character, but why is 17 year old Tim the victim when it comes to 10 year old Damian-- "Oh he tried to kill him' They're both trained by assassins. They're both trained. They're both Trained. Why Is a Junior/Senior in high school hurt by the actions of a 5th grader. I have a similar age gap with my younger brother. We have had pretty brutal fights and the next day we're fine. I'm not going to get into "Attack on Titans Tower AUs" but I will say this, Every Time I Start To Read One Of Those, I Lose Half Of My Hair Because of How Bad the Characterization Of Both Jason And Tim are. Please, Read, The, Comic. Jason Wasn't Trying To Kill Tim. If He Was, Tim would Be Dead. ANd Tim was Snarking Jason Through The Entire Confrontation. Lastly, Why Has DICK 'BAMF' GRAYSON TURNED INTO TIM"S NUMBER ONE OP????!!!! DIck IS LITERALLY TiM's ChiLDHOOD HEro!!!!! NoT BAtMAN, DICK GRAYSON. And like, not only that, Dick and Tim are the most brotherly. I'm Begging, Please go read a 90's comic. Why is it, the only time I see Dicks Manipulative side in fanon, It's in opposition to Tim? I bet it's bc of Teen Titans Go. I bet the only Tim and Dick interaction they've seen is TTG Robin going "No BOdy cARes AbOuT TiM DrAke"

Sorry that ended up becoming rant-y, and less objective. Since actually reading comics, fanon Tim Drake gets on my nerves.

[marionluth]

I'm fairly new to the batman fandom, but today I was reminded of my favorite preteen batman animated series back in the early 2000s (damn I'm getting old 🫠) : Batman Beyond. And it got me thinking and I did some digging and found (fan-created) timelines about the ages of the characters.

So they theorize Bruce is 77 and Terry is 16 in Batman Beyond. Now I know that i’m mixing different media here (comics and DCAU), but if we go under the batman all media types umbrella, Bruce being 77 would make (again based on fan made ages analyses) Dick 62, Jason 57, Tim 55, Damian 49.

And I’m just think it would be interesting to explore these characters’ reactions to suddenly seeing a helluva young batman (at the same age they were still just Robins) roaming Gotham and kicking ass. And their enstranged toxic-as-fuck father figure bringing another teen into the bat-game AND giving that new kid the mantle (not that they'd want it for themselves, but I think it would still just rub them wrong?)

As I'm typing this I'm realizing there might actually already be numerous stories out there exploring this and I just haven't read any yet, but it just came to me and I thought it is an interesting premise to explore. Also trying to imagine all the Robins so old is 🤯

So yeah, if you happen to know of any fics like this I'd love some recs (I'll research for some myself later). And I really think that's something I might write myself at some point.

[perseus-jackass]

okay we've got jason & dick fans who hate what fandom does to tim. im mostly a damian stan and i have to say that everytime i see a post by a tim fan that says ANYTHING abt any of the al ghuls, it ends up being the weirdest grossest stuff ever. do they even realize how they sound????? a lot of posts abt the al ghuls end up being abt tim somehow and ive already blocked so many ppl. but it never stops.

i still think of that panel where tim puts damian on his "contingency" list and says its bc of his "biology"🤮🤮🤮🤮

and for a while there were a lot of posts that made jokes abt how tim had the highest kill count in the family. Like are you flexing that?????

also for the sake of jason's fans ive got to mention red hood tim aus. the only way he gets to be red hood if you flipped the batfams ages around is if you straight up ignore women and poc characters - and then tim fans do. But no he would not give a shit abt crime alley lmao he was rich and grew up rich and spoiled and has nothing in common w these people

YES YES YES OMG THANK YOUUUUUU i’ve said up before, I’ll say it again.

If you have not read a comic that they’re in pre-911 you don’t get to speak on the Al Ghuls. 

And for the most part, it’s usually Ra’s or Damian, but I’ve seen Talia catch a few strays from Tim fans too!! Which pisses me off like you do not know my wife. I just don’t understand how they can’t see the blatant racism. I am beating them away from Ra’s and Damian with a stick.

I have not read that because I make a point to avoid Tim reading stuff. And more specifically early Tim and Damian stuff because of the way Damian is written, BUT THATS INSANE WTF. I will have to go to my Damian fan mutuals about this. That’s genuinely so racist. What the fuck who wrote that? Was it Morrison? It was probably Morrison. 

“Tim has the highest kill count in the family.” I WILL KILL YOU. It’s basic comic book logic that if the deaths do not happen on screen, they did not happen. THOSE BASES DONT FUCKING COUNT OMG

Also, thank you for the reverse robins comment. Those are the bane of my existence. If we’re gonna reverse robins, either Steph is Red Hood or we just reverse the order and keep the roles the same.

You’re absolutely right about Tim not giving a shit about Crime Alley. The whole reason Jason made that his whole thing is cause that’s where he’s from, those were his people, he loved them. Tim doesn’t have that. 

But yeah, Tim stans ignoring women and POC once again? I’m so surprised. 

[letika]

"Timber is absolutely unreasonable ship. They never weren't supposed to be canon"

Yeah. I'm ship them. I'm well aware that they only became canon because the writers wanted it that way, not because the majority of fans wanted it.

But I think we all know what it forced ship. Who were never supposed to be a couple anyway, but the writers decided otherwise, so now they're canon. And usually looking at these ships, you can feel how uncomfortable they are with each other. You can see how closed off and awkward they are with each other. How ill-matched they are and how out of place they are in that relationship. Despite some supposed efforts by the writers, but they just look very artificial when they're trying to squeeze out their deepest love for each other and pretend that's the way it's meant to be. And just literally everyone realizes that couple these characters is just impossible as canon.

But Timber don't fall into that category. Surprisingly their dynamic is very genuine and real. I don't sense any unnaturalness or falseness in their love. They are insanely comfortable with each other. The fact that Tim feels safe in Bernard's arms, and basically with him. And Tim considers going to an amusement park or a movie as something exciting and fun, even though that these are quite ordinary places to go on dates, but Tim life in general is a living hell, so the relationship with Ber is like some kind of island of normalcy and safety for him. Like, with him he can just enjoy life and the ordinary pleasures of youth. And writers could easily have gone the way of irritating clichés, like, Bernard might not have known that Tim was Robin and end up resenting him for withholding that information. Or he could have been jealous of Tim's superhero life and demand attention. But in the end, Bernard the most understanding boyfriend ever. It's such a thrill to see such an adequate and accepting person for whom the only thing that matters is that Tim okay and happy. But it's also very noticeable that they are an important part of each other's lives. This is especially evident in Tim. Like, my boy a hero with a lot of problems that go way beyond the problems of normal people, but he'll always make time for his boyfriend. Yah, by and large all of their dates are planned, but that's also what it means that they're an important part of each other's lives that they make special time for. And looking at them you really see that they are fucking love and appreciative of each other.

I don't love Timber for HOW their relationship turned out, I love them for WHAT their relationship turned out to be.

[blackbatcass]

helloo :D

So, I keep seeing people saying that Jason is Bruce’s favorite child, and the only one that was actually like a son to Bruce. (aside from Damian) Also that just because Dick and Bruce were partners/brothers too, it means that Dick isn’t really like Bruce’s son. How Jason and Bruce are each other’s favorite and Dick wishes he could be Bruce’s son (basically it just gets worse and worse jekskenjske)

AND I DON’T REALLY GET THIS AT ALL.. I COMPLETELY DISAGREED

But then I saw SO MANY posts about this (just getting harsher and harsher LMAO) and I thought I’d ask someone who knew more. So, yeah, here I am!

Thanks for answering if you do, and have a wonderful day!

anon do you want me dead. is that what's happening here

JK JK my first fanon jason ask... what a historic day! basically you're completely right. I don't know where this frankly insane take comes from but whenever me, my mutuals, and pretty much anyone in this corner of the dc fandom sees a post like it we roll our eyes to the heavens. to put it simply the idea that jason is bruce's favorite and the only one he actually loved like a son is a complete fucking lie lol.

first of all to claim that bruce didn't love dick like a son is......I mean. let's just say people saying that have probably never read a comic with bruce and dick before. literally the number one thing to know about these characters is that the love bruce and dick have for each other can be seen from outer space. they have never been normal about each other. bruce raised dick since he was eight. they are thee og codependent father-son partners 'we saved each other we are pack bonded for life if anything happened to him i'd kill everyone in this room and then myself' duo. I mean... there is nuance to be had where they had a very complicated tangled up hard-to-label relationship that had elements of being father & son, elements of being brothers, and ofc partners as batman and robin but that is a function of their relationship being TOO crazy and close not the other way around lol. it is patently true that bruce and dick know each other better than anyone else in the world. it is pretty much true that if you're going to play the favorites game, it's hard to deny that dick is bruce's favorite. that's his eldest his most trusted his saving grace his person who understands him better than anyone. I could pull like an endless amount of panels as evidence that dick was bruce's favorite. there are so many 'dick is the only thing i did right' 'i only feel pride when i look at nightwing' etc etc. dick is his child in every way that matters basically

which is not to say that jason isn't bruce's son! he definitely is! bruce does love jason, but jason was his second kid lol. and it's...i mean jason was robin for a very short time in the grand scheme of things. you can blow through his robin run super fast because it's just not very long. the idea that bruce loved jason more or there's more of a father-son bond to be found in the few issues they were together for as opposed to the 10 years dick was robin is actually insane. bruce literally admitted that the reason he let jason be robin was because he missed dick. lol. lmao even.

basically yeah claiming that jason is bruce's favorite and dick was never treated as bruce's son is just a lie. it's not true. it's like that 'jason is tim's favorite robin' nonsense that was going around a few months ago; it completely ignores canon and essential character elements in jason's favor. I don't know why some jason fans are so obsessed with putting him up on a pedestal by bashing other characters on his behalf. and like...it is possible to have two sons? and love them both? lmfao? and that's not even getting into like tim and cass (also bruce's adopted children). I don't know why people just decided this was a thing but it is false<3

[a-bad-case-of-the-stephs]

Finally re-reading Robin 101-104 (the nocturna arc) bc I remember being intrigued but overwhelmed the first time and looking back I really, really enjoy it (it's timsteph at their most enjoyable and has decent balance between the conflict in Tim's life and the inner workings of Steph's life, which was always unequal in Dixon's robin to the point of being slightly infuriating) but an interesting addendum to what you were saying a bit ago visa vie Steph's costume: Nocturna keeps saying to Steph "I see the colours you wear" as a means of arguing that her and Steph have some Fundamental Aspect in common. Which is potentially connected to womenhood/feminity? Said bc Natalia calls her "little sister" during the second time she mentions the colours Steph wears and bc Steph connects hers and Natalia's experiences of gendered violence in her head. I also mentioned in my comments on that post that the pink/purple colour choice feels connected to Steph's status as the 'young girl' character of the batman cast at the time (since Cass' character actively subverts a lot of teen girl stereotypes that Steph's character more incorporates and is in conversation with, Buffy Summers-style) so that feels like a personal win lol. Tbh a connection between Steph and Nocturna over ~feminine energy~ is kind of fitting from a modern lens considering like, modern tiktok influencer 'woo woo crystal energy' spiritual girlie phrases and buzzwords that sucker young girls into believing a bunch of borderline medievalist garbage.

Which got me thinking about Steph and Nocturna and how brief their relationship is but how interesting it is and how it's been referenced and revisited briefly in modern continuity but that's a whole other can of worms. Wish someone would take the time at DC to sort out the continuity between Nocturna's tbh, pre-crisis post-crisis and post-flashpoint all feel so different I can't reconcile them really, even tho post-crisis and post-flashpoint are meant to be the same(?) now.

Anyway yeah. Random Steph and Nocturna thoughts as I reread this arc! Hope they give some food for thought

Thank you for this! Im always so happy to see I got an ask from you, you always have such great Steph takes and thoughts.

I totally get how this arc can feel overwhelming. On one hand, I adore how much detail and nuance Jon Lewis brings to the table when it comes to Steph, and I definitely appreciate how we get so much of her internal monologue aside Tims, really emphasizing her perspective as a valid and important one. (As you point out, this stands fairly in contrast to Dixons approach). But on the other hand: there’s so much fucking internal dialogue. Swaths of it. It’s a lot sometimes, especially when it’s not broken up, and (for me at least) is sometimes easy to get lost reading.

(Also have to confess something: i didn’t realize Natalia was meant to be a version of Nocturna. Whoops. Definitely good to know, thanks.)

Big fan of the take about Stephs costume and femininity. Especially fun to look at this in contrast to Cass. Like you mentioned, Cass stands in contrast to the expected archetypes and trappings of a teen girl character, while Steph tends to conform to them. (Which is especially ironic to me given Cass begins with the explicitly gendered title ‘Batgirl’ while Spoiler is gender neutral.)

Steph being a female character is (for better or worse) essential to how her character is treated on every level. Misogyny and especially sexualization and sexual violence are kind of core parts of her character. Unlike Cass, Steph isnt detached from femininity, she is constantly reasserted to be part of it and hurt by her association with it, both through the sexual violence she is threatened with consistently and more than that through the way she can be narratively treated, dumbed down and villainized and discarded when convenient.

But Steph’s ‘femaleness’ can also be core to her character in a (somewhat) positive way. Her strongest familal relationship (while rocky) is by far her relationship with her mother. While pretty much every male relative in her life we see is some degree of absolutely shitty, Crystal and Steph’s relationship is deep and compelling and genuinely touching.

One of the first missions she gave herself as Spoiler was to track down Jim Murray: for the specific reason of protecting other young girls he might try to prey upon.

So given that, I’m interested the read of Steph’s femininity as connected to the purple of her costume. Given how often is Steph doomed or defined by her femininity I think it’s interesting to have it grounded in her costumes coloration as well, for better or worse.

Anyways, another bit of the connection between Nocturna and Steph and femininity which you got me thinking of is the moment where Steph tries to contact Natalia’s mother.

Maybe it’s just because I’ve had Crystal and Steph’s relationship on the brain so much recently, but it’s so interesting to me that Steph thinks to try to contact Natalias mom.

Especially as a character who we know spent a long long time seeing Crystal as unreliable or unsafe to confide in, and who Steph is at times more accustomed to seeing as someone she has to take care of instead of Vice versa.

Maybe this is because they’re in between these rough points right now. Steph is probably experiencing a high point in their relationship. (Crystal is clean and present, they’ve commiserated over how shitty Arthur is, and Steph has gotten a lot more time getting used to her mom wanting to be there for her.)

Good point about the whole ‘feminine energy’ spiritualistic stuff w Noctura retaining relevance, huge agree.

Their relationship is just generally very interesting, with the ‘little sister’ of course, and Steph seeing Natalia as a child to some degree, and their connection through music. I also find her convo w Steph with the stars just so enduringly touching, definitely a highlight for me.

(And who fucking knows w continuity at this point. It’s rough out here. Also, didn’t know her and Steph’s interactions had been revisited, that’s very interesting, good to know.)

Anyway great thoughts as always, thanks for the ask, and sorry this took like literally forever to respond to I’ve been stupid busy.

[radioactive-earthshine]

I'm choosing hell by asking you "Timkon" for the ask

Ship It IT'S COMPLICATED

What made you (sort of) ship it? It's obvious Tim was into Kon, while his feelings in the comics were a classic case of right feelings, wrong time and he couldn't identify that his feelings were not entirely platonic due to his comphet and his own freak nature (he's a freak about all his friends). Kon also is definitely a great case of comphet where it feels very obvious he was performing what he believed how a MAN behaves due to his Cadmus engineering and it led him to some pretty bad decisions - but he has shown instances in the comics that make is easy to interpret that he is into guys (Superboy #92 for example and his dream about Bart). Kon always thought Tim was SO COOL so I can definitely see that he had a bit of a crush on him.

What are your favorite things about the ship/What would have made you like it? I would have liked to see more instances of Kon and Tim being friends outside of being Superboy and Robin - yes we got some implication of their emotional closeness via Geoff but a lot of their history was also Tim not revealing much of anything to Kon and part of that mystery likely was an allure to Kon. I would have loved that dynamic being played out more. "Who is this guy really I think he so hot fuck he irritates the hell out of me." Also would love if people back in 2022 didn't threaten to doxx me and burn my house down because I prefer Konbart and might have suggested it is pretty one-sided.

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship. The fans need to fucking get a grip, and read the comics, seriously. Not just the few from Tim's pov of him being freaky when Kon is dead, or the HUG issue, but much much more to get a handle on how compelling this relationship could be. Particularly from Kon's pov, because so many of you just treat him like Tim's purse dog that Batman told him he couldn't keep. Yeah you can do whatever you want forever, I can't make you care about understanding the content you claim to love, but reading is important now more than ever and halting the spread of misinformation should always be paramount.

TLDR: I recognize the contextual evidence and why and how people ship it and see how it has value BUT you guys are annoying about it to the point of being criminal.

[zeroducks-2]

I've just finished Gotham Knights and I get that people aren't happy with the fucked ass haircuts but like, I do believe this is the most progressive and well written Jason Todd we've ever gotten in recent times. Even in recent comics. Like damn, bro goes to therapy, picked up his interests and hobbies again (e.g. the cooking and the reading and the shit talking) from his "Robin makes me Magic" days. Like yeah, he's still edgy, but he was murdered by a fucking Clown, he's allowed to be edgy. We got a Jason Todd that isn't diluted to "the angry black sheep character" archetype. He's healing, working on himself, his relationship with his family, and he's fighting his way (brutal and all strength and tact) to do what he stands for and what he believes is right. And his heart is just so big and full of compassion, but it doesnt blind him and make him wishful or naive. He's so well balanced in Gotham Knights. I hope this version of his character is written in future comics. I'm sick of DC writers making him this angry anti-hero who's only reasoning and purpose in life is to get back at Batman for failing him and so many others. Jason is allowed to be more than his trauma. Thank you Gotham Knights for seeing that.

I'm glad you enjoyed the game anon. I personally am not a fan, not because of Jason but because of the game itself. The dialogues felt stale, more reminiscent of tumblr "incorrect Batfam quotes" than the source material, and the NPCs felt dull compared to how full of life they were in the Arkham series (so much so I would hide in random spots just to hear them talking about the current game events, especially in AK). The most unforgivable bit to me was Tim not having ever fought the rogues because he's "young" - I've never seen anything more insulting and infantilizing for a character which already heavily suffers for being treated as the useless one, never allowed to participate in the game changing dynamics or to have meaningful arcs, and is relegated to being the cute little bisexual twink.

That being said it's a matter of taste, and Gotham Knights is surely a good game for those who prefer a wholesome loving family approach to these characters. Jason working on himself and going to therapy and having a good relationship with his "family" is surely what lots of people (especially in here) want to see. Me, I don't think any amount of therapy would help since therapy is based on shared human experiences and repetition of patterns, and Jason died and dug himself out of his own grave. That's not a trauma any therapist would have the means to help with. They indeed "diluted" the event in the game, changed the fact that Jason dug himself out of his own grave and was functionally braindead and homeless for two years, and made it so UTRH never happened in order for therapy to make any sense, because there is no reconciliation possible with a parent that slit your neck to save the person who broke all your bones with a crowbar and then murdered you.

It's kinda like when Wally went to therapy (canonically) after Barry's death. The therapist was a good one and he tried! But ultimately he didn't manage to make a real difference because Wally is the Flash, a super-powered creature with time bending powers who does things on the scale of absurdity, and who also happens to have had an extremely traumatic childhood and to have just lost the only person who ever loved him unconditionally. His problems have roots in reality but are out of the scope of any therapy method currently known to man.

And Jason is more than his trauma, but pretending his trauma doesn't inform his actions and can be solved with him "working on himself" is not an approach I hope they take in comics. I'd rather they went back to Jason doing things his way and protecting the people of Gotham in the only manner he finds helpful, because he experienced on his own skin (twice!) that Batman's methods don't work. I'd rather they allowed him to stop clashing with Bruce as main theme of his stories, and have his own plotlines in which he's in between a vigilante and a mafia lord (which they were doing with Dick by the way, before chickening out and have Slade bomb Bludhaven) with Bruce only as a cameo sometimes.

We have a high number of morally irrepressible characters who always do the right thing more or less. I'd like Jason to be something different, something darker, because there is a dramatic lack of grey characters and anti-heroes which were sanded down to either 100% bad guys or 100% good guys. I hate that, why can't we have nuanced choices and people struggling with the darkness they carry, why does everyone need to be a perfect "unproblematic" paragon of goodness who would never do anything wrong. We have A LOT of characters like that and I love them, I really do! But if everyone and their families are like that then it's really frickin boring!

Plus, I'd like the characters to actually struggle with their past traumas in a meaningful way, otherwise why even giving them those traumas to begin with. Give me Tim still grappling with how he couldn't save his father, give me Dick haunted by all the times he slipped and let go of the no killing rule in a way or another, give me Jason haunted by the tragedy of being abandoned by every person who was supposed to protect him and working from there to being the protector of everyone else.

That's what I hope DC would pick up and write about. I was never much for fluff and wholesome things unless it's in small amounts, I always preferred strife and complexity. But hey, I'm glad you enjoyed the game, at least one of us did!

[gorogues]

tricksterrune replied to your text post: Clearly he has a pair of dice in his fist, ready to fling them dramatically at the right opportunity

Oh yes, clearly!

aukisstic replied to your ask post: THANK YOU I hate the pride special so much…

Yeah, I just did not think that story was good at all.

demonbirdsforever replied to your ask post: See this is where I go… they were in other comics!? I missed those!🥺

The Rogues are in tons of issues (cumulatively), but not all those stories are great :>

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: Not to be weird or anything but rn I actually feel like for Captain Boomerang, Knight Terrors Robin #1 or Suicide Squad Blaze as a whole are the worse than Suicide Squad v4

You're not being weird at all, but neither of those are canon. If I'd included non-canon stuff the list would have been really different lol, but in hindsight I should have made that clear.

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: Cuz Suicide Squad Blaze treated him like he was nothing more than a joke (and called him Captain Cultural Appropriation, which if we take Suicide Squad v4 #26 into account, where his mother is aboriginal, it feels like the writers just don’t know him), killed him off revealed that he was actually assaulted by whatever monster he was fighting and then killed him off for real.

Believe me, I agree that story was terrible :] It just didn't make the list because thankfully it's an AU.

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: And then in Knight Terrors: Robin #1 like… I understand it’s supposed to be from Tim Drake’s perspective, but it really paints Captain Boomerang in a really bad light. Like he killed Jack Drake on purpose. When he didn’t even throw the boomerang until he was collapsing from 3 gunshot wounds to the chest.

Well, Digger did go there to kill Jack, but Identity Crisis was a terrible story anyway. I should have included it in my worst Digger stories list, and am not sure how I forgot. I'll add it with a note that it's a late addition.

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: Like… The beginning of Suicide Squad v4, yeah, I agree, they fucked over Digger big time, but at least it got better at the end, despite issue #26 also calling him Owen instead.

It's of course a very subjective matter (all best/worst lists are), but I just thought those comics were straight up edgy and terrible. I've never liked any Adam Glass or Ales Kot comics.

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: Suicide Squad v1 was also Not Great™ as a whole due to the use of slurs for aboriginal people within it. Issue 4 was the worst of those where on top of using a slur for an aboriginal person to a black man, he also said black people can’t be artists and tried agree with a Nazi and made the super racist statement that minorities commit the most petty crimes.

This is also subjective, and I get where you're coming from but I don't think they're bad comics. It's fine if you don't like it -- a lot of people don't like what was done with Digger in that series, and that's valid -- but I think it's a good series. It hasn't always aged well, but it's the reason the Suicide Squad concept exists to this day. The racism is tough to read, but Ostrander was making a point about the garbage Waller, Bronze Tiger, and Vixen have to fight through to do their jobs and just exist as Black people. It does suck for Rogue fans that Digger was chosen to be the problematic mouthpiece, though, so I understand why some people don't like it. I agree it was a very drastic swing from his pre-Crisis characterization, so I don't love that aspect either.

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: Sorry, I have many thoughts on the true worst Captain Boomerang comic.

That's fine! :)

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: Also for Owen I’d argue for the Supergirl v5 comics. Cuz apparently that version of Supergirl that he’s not only rooming with, but is also trying to get with is 16. And he’s like… Literally an adult man. He literally called that version of Supergirl “jailbait” in one of the better comics of the bunch.

Yeah, I have mixed feelings on that series. It wasn't good, but unfortunately I think a lot of Owen's stories weren't great so to me it doesn't necessarily stand out. He's a good character who's been in a lot of mediocre stories…in part because a lot of DC's output was mediocre around that time.

demonbirdsforever replied to your text post: I read the Catwoman issues you recommended and now understand the kiss.

Hope you enjoyed it!

[chaoxfix]

i’m going. to be calm. i’m going to be so normal about this.

anyways obviously yeah there are 100% criticisms about YJ to be made, but they should also be made for all of 90s era comics. the fact that this writer felt the need to single this series out to punish fans … like i’m sorry, we’re not annoyed with the modern era because it exists or is diverse. most of us enjoy a great majority of the new characters and we appreciate the growing diversity of the series. we’re only upset because half our generation of characters were never given satisfying character arcs to actually develop them into adulthood (like they did with the titans and are doing with the current young era). every time our generation of heroes gets brought out, they’re dragged through the fucking mud and made ooc within an inch of their lives, if they get brought back at all.

we’re not mad that they were replaced; we’re mad they weren’t given a new role to grow into. legacy characters are meant to age out of the old role and into a new one. you just have to figure out what that role is. don’t just kill them off or write them out of existence. give them a new title, a new responsibility, and a new location.

because superboy should go to jon kent, it’s time! kid flash should go to wally west ii. robin should go to damian wayne.

but don’t just throw kon-el into a goddamn crack in space time to make jon superboy because you can’t figure out a new title for kon (THEY LITERALLY DID THIS. FOR YEARS.), and don’t constantly waver with making tim red robin, and don’t make bart feel weird about being impulse vs kid flash. all because you can’t figure out where they’re growing up into.

because, obviously impulse IS a better fit for bart! red robin IS growth for tim! supernova is the coolest goddamn name you could give kon!!!!!

and let cassie age into a new name for gods sake!!! you literally haven’t even TRIED with her!

and for context, DC knows how to do this, because they let dick grayson become nightwing, donna became troia, and the rest (like starfire) didn’t need to change bc she wasn’t a legacy character. though i notice no one’s weird about wally west being the flash alongside barry allen — that’s bc you guys are only obsessed with giving YJ characters the shaft.

for fucks sake. you did NOT do this with the titans. stop acting like YJ era fans are the most toxic when you WROTE OUR GENERATION OUT OF EXISTENCE TO MAKE ROOM FOR THE NEXT. we’re not mad because you’re adding more diverse characters, we’re mad because you fucked over our generation of heroes repeatedly but didn’t do that shit to prior generations which means it was absolutely singling us out to fuck over! holy bad writing batman!!

even the fucking batman animated movies do this. jason got the red hood movie that’s not connected to anything else — aaaaand… tim doesn’t exist. great. thanks for that.

and with tim specifically… dude. you gave him a new role … then backpedaled? are you serious rn? he’s 100% aged out of being robin wtf.

i just. i’m going to scream. how did they miss the point this fucking badly.

[danny-chase]

well maybe. if Jason actually had seen Dick be a jackass, but Dick waited till Jason went to school to pick fights with Bruce

was totally the hot-head in that fight 🙄

and made up with Jason for treating him harshly by the end of their first issue

(all the above is from Batman 1940 #416, so if you cry about Jason’s character being retconned, then this is the source you want to pick from)

In contrast Dick took longer (aka more than 1 issue) to warm up to Tim

The New Titans #61

Wasn’t a fan of Cass taking up Barbara’s old mantle

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #120

And was definitely not a fan of Damian attempts to up-surp Tim’s position as Robin 

Nightwing (1996) #138

Dick isn’t this magical golden person that meets you, instantly decides you’re an uwu baby that needs big brothering, and takes you under your wing. He’s had initial dislike for ALL of his siblings when they’ve entered into his family. So what changed?

1. With Jason it was really about Bruce, which generally fandom gets right, but what they get wrong is Dick and Bruce festering and fighting about it for long periods of time. Dick saw Jason was Robin, showed up, was rude to Jason, and stormed off. He calmed down, waited till the next day when Jason was at school, confronted Bruce about the situation, and made up with Jason that night. It was literally a 2-day long event. Not months of arguments and Jason playing the divorced child of Dick and Bruce. Dick also wasn’t living in Gotham at the time, and didn’t really have a need to be around, so he wasn’t, and Jason wasn’t alive for many more issues after this anyways, but was on the Teen Titans reserve list, so ig he did stuff with them

2. Tim kept coming back. Accounts that Tim bullied Bruce and Dick into accepting him as Robin are kinda dumb. Essentially Tim kept showing up and seeking them out, and they were like. Fine this kid is cute, also lets train him so he doesn’t fucking die, because he tried to rescue us from Two-Face single handedly

3. Barbara voiced her approval for Cass to take on the Batgirl mantle. It was literally as simple as that

4. Time. So much time. Dick and Damian aren’t this fluffy huggy pair that fandom makes them out to be. They genuinely didn’t like each other at first. Damian didn’t respect Dick, and while Dick respected Damian as a person, that doesn’t mean he necessarily liked him, because Damian was a massive brat (affectionate) at 10 years old. And so yeah. Dick made snide remarks to Damian at times, and engaged in banter/taunting with a 10 year old. Eventually they learned how to communicate in a better way. But it took time

So yeah, ALL of Dick’s siblings know he can be an asshole, they’ve all been on the receiving end of his disapproval. But all of them got past that and know he’s a good person, who won’t let grudges or first impressions get in the way of how their relationships develop. If Jason asked Tim or Damian if they thought Dick was an asshole, they’d probably reply “yeah sometimes, but after you get to know him, he’s really great” or something along those sentiments. anyways this is the fanon interpretation of Dick and Jason’s relationship that drives me nuts: that Dick was a massive bitch to poor widdle Jason and no one believes him because he’s all hugs and kisses when it comes to Tim and Damian. nah. sorry but Jason’s not special, Dick disapproved of all his siblings initially. And then five seconds later he was like actually [x] is my kid now, and if anything happens to them I’ll kill everyone in this room, and then myself

I just know Jason is so fed up with the rest of the Batfam not knowing how much of a shitbag Dick was when he was a teenager. I know this man looks like a complete nutcase when he tries to convince Tim or Damian that Dick had his asshole phase, too. Don’t believe his fucking golden boy, depressed, running on fumes, burnt out, “I’d give everything and then some for the good of the world” act. He’s a lying liar that lies. It’s ALL lies.

Mr. Professional Older Brother was a goddamn menace to society, and Jason Todd is gonna PROVE IT, DAMNIT.

“I know what you are,” says Jason.

“Lol,” says Dick. “Lmao.”

[buds-and-baubles]

You lost interest in the Batfam because of Jason or because of the fans mistagging? Just curious, btw!

there's multiple reasons i lost interest in the batfamily all circled around jason todd in particular.

many of his fans are intrigued by the concept of jason todd as red hood but refuse to acknowledge any of his wrongdoings as canon.

they'll ignore some bits entirely like what he did to mia dearden while a good chunk will then ship him with roy harper. y'know, mia's adoptive brother. yes, he kidnapped roy's sister, mocked her trauma for being forced as a child to be a sex worker, and then blew up her school (thankfully empty)!

surely this means roy harper should kiss the guy that in post-crisis he had known as his best friend's little brother. who had did that to his sister. who had fucking exploded blüdhaven which could've killed dick, who is his best friend.

or they'll downplay things. oh no, he didn't try to kill tim and damian multiple times, he was just mad at bruce and trying to prove a point! he tried to kill children. he wanted to kill them. there was no lazarus madness doing that, that was him, wanting to kill children.

another big thing is that people in the fandom continue to treat it that jason and tim would be close brothers and 'oh he was my robin' and then turn around and make dick grayson into a fucking monster.

y'know, tim drake? who was irrevocably changed by seeing the flying grayson's fall? who figured out who robin was through dick grayson? who tracked down dick grayson during a lonely place of dying? who continued to work with dick in the earliest appearance of pre-knightfall where tim met with dick in new york because their cases had the two guys they were looking for? who was dick's first robin as batman in prodigal where he taught him how to cook, clean and do laundry?

that dick grayson and tim drake bond? yeah that one.

the mistagging did have a hand in this. go through the batfamily tag and even posts not applying to him are tagged with jason todd. go into batman posts and it'll be talking about jason todd but tagged as batman.

on ao3, you'll find fics tagged with some characters (ex: kon) and you'll find it'll have one mention of kon and the rest is about the batfamily. i've read some and it'll usually be a fic that involves a heavy jason todd focus.

that or he's a minor character in a story/post tagged and people will be talking in comments only about him. it'll only be reblogged or liked because of him. it'll get traction in fandom because of him.

this exact concept above was the final straw for me. let me explain.

i've been planning a concept for a redone wildstorm to dc transfer. originally, i had entertained the concept that midnighter's first bat contact rather than nightwing (because i am not a fan of the agent grayson storyline), it was red hood.

and what do you know, 98% of the people who liked and reblogged it were there for him and not the main characters it was about! midnighter talking about himself in regards to his family/friends to jason? people are there for jason.

i got sick of it. i got pissed off. wildstorm's the authority and midpollo fandom are smaller than the batfamily and fans of jason todd. i already have to deal with the change the new 52 did to my faves.

don't get me wrong, i still love nightwing. he has been part of my life since i was a toddler. i still love the rest of the family minus him (though bruce and alfred i do not know how to feel about).

it takes a lot for me to leave behind or dislike something, but i reached that point for him. i used to romantically daydream about him, but all of this killed it with a crowbar for my ace/arospec heart so it ain't ever coming back.

i prefer that either he either be a vengeful ghost of who he was because the inherent horror of him dying as a child would leave where he cannot return to a family he knew due to his own trauma and hubris or that he just never came back. either dead inside or just dead.