#and now bc of everyone else’s interpretations of my friendship i needed to distance

[mtvhoods]

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[whatisthiswritingthing]

Get Over Yourself - Lindsey Horan x Reader

Prompt: The Great Horan x reader? Where she and R aren’t a thing, but there are some feelings there. R always flirts with her and asks her out a lot, but Lindsey always rejects her. Eventually, R stops doing it bc she doesn’t want to continue being hurt and disappointed by the rejection. So, when R gets shipped with another teammate (you decide) by the fans, R has to flirt with them as PR stunt. Lindsey gets jealous and realizes that she wants to be the only one R flirts with. Cue an angsty fight between the two until she finally tells R how she feels and they make up.

“Hey Linds, do you believe in love at first sight?” Y/N smirked, slowly walking past Lindsey, pausing, waiting for the midfielder to acknowledge her. Once Lindsey looked up, cocking her head to the side, she continued, “or do you need me to walk by again?” Y/N winked, giving a slow, dramatic strut past.

Several players rolled their eyes, some boo’ing, while others squirted Y/N with water. Lindsey just rolled her eyes, fighting a smirk, “come on, let’s pass,” she reached a handout for Y/N to help tug her up.

Y/N grasped the offered hand, tugging Lindsey to a standing position. Lindsey, not expecting Y/N to actually pull her up, pushed herself up at the same time, crashing her body into Y/N’s.

“If you wanted to feel me up, you just had to ask,” Y/N smirked, hands on either of Lindsey’s hips to help steady her.

“You gotta buy me dinner first for that,” Lindsey gave Y/N a gentle shove to the chest before jogging away, tapping a ball with her.

“Yea?” Y/N hesitated, biting her lip, watching the blonde to see if she was serious or not. The friends had such a flirtatious relationship, the lines between friends and more had been blurred, were blurred. Hands would wander, hugs lingered, eyes always finding each other in crowded rooms. Y/N was the first person Lindsey would seek out when she needed to talk about something, needed comfort, or just needed to hear Y/N’s voice.

Anyone watching the two women could easily interpret the interactions would assume the friends were a couple. But they weren’t. The concept of a romantic relationship had never been discussed. Y/N had been working to feel out if it was more than harmless flirting for Lindsey, like it was for herself. But their friendship had been like this for so long, Y/N didn’t know how Lindsey felt.

Y/N knew how she felt, how she couldn’t help be drawn to Lindsey, and would be more than willing maintain the friendship as long as it meant she still got to be with the midfielder. Worried if Lindsey knew the true intention behind Y/N’s flirting it would push her away.

Y/N was brought out of her musings when Lindsey flipped a ball into her stomach.

“We playing or not you weirdo?” Lindsey smirked.

“Oh yea,” Y/N kicked the ball back, still only half paying attention. Her thoughts still on her feelings for the blonde, distracted by Lindsey implying she might want to go for dinner with Y/N, “so you, me, dinner. Then you can feel me up as much as you want,” the soccer player smirked, but her eyes critically watching the midfielder.

Lindsey scoffed, rolling her eyes, “What, like a date?” thinking it was a joke, laughed, juggling the ball a few times before passing it back, “like I would ever date you,” she continued to laugh alone.

Y/N felt her entire body heat up. Lindsey thought it was a joke. A joke they would ever date. That she was a joke, the concept of them as a joke, “hey, I was just trying to give you free access to touch all this,” she awkwardly motioned the length of her body, “your loss, “she tried to play it off, hoping her voice sounded more nonchalant than it really felt.

Thankfully, Y/N was saved from having to hear what Lindsey would say or do by practicing beginning.

For the next two hours, it was Y/N could do to avoid Lindsey. Switching lines for drills, have to re-tie her cleats several times, even requesting more work with the defenders to avoid all the midfielders. Everyone gave Y/N strange looks when she darted away at the water break and Lindsey reached out to touch a bruise forming on Y/N’s leg.

Somehow, Y/N managed to avoid the team for the next two days. Arriving just on time to meetings, meals, and practices. Leaving as soon as she could. She spent two days putting in extra workouts, extra training, or just wandering the mall. Anything that would keep her put of the hotel and away from the team. She was only trying to avoid the blonde, but she knew it was near impossible to avoid one person in the close group of women.

“Y/L/N!” one of the media coordinators called her as she tried to rush out of another meeting on the third day, “you and Mewis are up for media, let’s go.”

“Fuck” Y/N mumbled, slowly turning around to follow the media person.

“Don’t sound so excited!” Kristie slung an arm across Y/N’s shoulders, “we’re both hot, funny, and supposedly really good at soccer. We are a triple threat!” she tugged Y/N to a stop to jump on her back for a piggy back ride, “we get stuck, just flex these guns,” Kristie teasingly squeezed Y/N’s arms, “and they’ll all be so distracted we can just run away.”

That drew a genuine laugh from the soccer player, she tightened her hold under the blondes’ legs and carried her into the media room.

The media team all laughed as the pair walked in, Kristie having wrapped her legs around Y/N’s waist and around her shoulders., holding so tightly Y/N didn’t need to hold her. Looking similar to koala on a branch.

“USWNT presents ‘Koala or Kristie’. Where we show you a picture and you decide if it’s a koala or a Kristie,” Y/N announced to the media staff as she turned so Kristie could let go and drop right into the chair. When Kristie didn’t let go right away, Y/N reached behind her and began tickling the blonde until her grip let go and she fell into the chair.

The staff all laughed at the pairs antics, “you guys are already live,” one called while the two finished settling into the chairs, handing a phone over so they could read the questions being sent in.

Y/N smirked while she scrolled through the comments, letting Kristie introduce them and officially start their session.

“Alright Y/N/N,” Kristie leaned into Y/N’s side to attempt to read the phone and choose a question, “start off with a good one.”

“I have one of my own before I get to the fan ones,” Y/N giggled, grinning at the blonde while she tugged the phone away, “do you think you have the right koala-fications?”

Kristie stared at Y/N before glancing to the media staff behind the camera, “I think I’m busy today guys, I am available when I can do this with anyone else.”

Y/N maintained a serious expression, “that answers that, Kristie Mewis does not have the right koala-fications,” she began scrolling through the phone looking for a real fan question while Kristie turned and mock gasped at Y/N, “if I could play any other sport professionally, I would be a basketball player,” she continued on, ignoring Kristie staring at her.

Y/N deliberately focused on the phone, waiting for Kristie to say anything, her serious expression slipping and a smirk cracking through.

Kristie shook her head, “no way you could be a basketball player, you’re way too short,” she held a hand up next to her, drastically exaggerating Y/N’s height.

“But I’ve got mad hops, and big feet!” Y/N put her hands under her knee and lifted her leg, so her foot was in view of the camera.

“That just means you have big feet, not that it will make you a good basketball player,” Kristie laughed, pushing Y/N’s foot away from her.

“My mom said I’ll grow into them, there’s still a chance,” Y/N shrugged her shoulders. She knew she wouldn’t get any taller, but it was fun working Kristie up.

“You’re 28, you’re not growing into your feet at this point,” Kristie rolled her eyes, shaking her head, “read a question!”

Much of their live session went that way, very few questions being answered. The friends easily distracted, telling stories or just bantering, forgetting the camera was there entirely.

By the end of the say, the video had been picked apart, screenshots were made, and new a secret couple was formed.

Y/N had gone back to avoiding the team, her thoughts even more jumbled now that everyone assumed she was with Kristie. She didn’t have feelings for Kristie, she loved her like a friend and loved their easy going dynamic, but it would never be anything more that. And she knew Kristie felt the same.

“You’re avoiding me,” Lindsey said as greeting when Y/N walked into her room the next day.

“Fuck!” Y/N stepped back into the closed door, her body crashing against it, “what the fuck Lindsey?” she stomped further into the room.

“You’re avoiding me,” Lindsey repeated, sitting in a chair in the corning, watching Y/N move around the room.

“I’m not avoiding you,” Y/N continued to rummage around the room, mindlessly moving things around in order to look busy, “how’d you get into my room?”

“Kicked your rookie out, convinced the poor kid medical needed to redo their testing,” she answered quickly, “you’re avoiding me,” she said it a third time.

“I’m not avoiding you,” Y/N began to refold her suitcase to keep her hands busy and continue to avoid looking at the blonde critically staring at her, “but just to clarify, if I was, you thought the solution was to corner me in my room?”

“Is this because of practice the other day?” Lindsey pushed out of the chair and closed the distance between them, “because I know I’ve felt you up for less than dinner before,” she chuckled softly, stepping close, pressing her body against y/N’s placing a handout to land low on Y/N’s hip.

Y/N abruptly dropped the shirt she was folding and took two large steps away from Lindsey, “Fuck Lindsey, it’s not always about you. I’m not avoiding you. I haven’t hung out with anyone else,” she snapped, her jaw clenching while she stared hard at Lindsey.

Lindsey stared wide eyed at the sudden outburst before gathering herself, snapping back, “yet, Kristie gets to hang all over you.”

“You hang all over me all the time Lindsey, it’s the same thing. Besides, it was for the live thing we did,” Y/N didn’t know what she was so angry all of a sudden. She was avoiding Lindsey and Lindsey was just calling her out on the immature behaviour. Y/N really didn’t understand why she was upset, Lindsey had a right to confront her avoidance. Y/N was the one that had decided to pull away when it seemed Lindsey didn’t see their friendship as anything more. But what Y/N really didn’t understand, was why Lindsey was so upset about Kristie being on her.  

Lindsey knew why she was upset. She had spent the last two days always just missing Y/N and had replayed all their interactions before Y/N seemingly disappeared. The only thing she could come up with when she joked about them going out and shooting down Y/N’s dinner invite. Then she watched the live session Y/N did with Kristie, a few other players planning on throwing in their own obscure questions. The feeling she got in her chest watching Y/N carry Kristie in was a feeling she couldn’t place; she’d never felt it before.

Jealously was what Alex said.

Longing was what Kelley said.

Infatuation was what Rose said.

Gross was what Sam said, thinking it was directed at her sister.

Realization was what Sonnett said.

She sat silent the entire time, that feeling growing throughout. She ruminated on what her friends. None of the words fit, yet, they all fit. That was the problem, they all fit. She was realizing her feelings for Y/N. She was infatuated with how effortlessly funny she was. Longed to be the one Y/N was making smile the way she was making Kristie smile. And she jealous Kristie got to be the one Y/N was with while she had been avoided for two days.

So, Lindsey knew why she was upset. She was frustrated at herself because she wanted to tell Y/N how she felt but she couldn’t get the words out. Could only make a joke that didn’t end up being a great joke because now Y/N was upset too.

“Get over yourself Lindsey. You don’t get a say in who hangs on me and who doesn’t,” Y/N said, her voice had started firm, but sounded defeated by the end. She looked down before shuffling back to the bed to resume folding her clothes.

“But what if I did?” Lindsey rushed out, crinkling her face at how that sounded, implying Y/N was something someone controlled, “fuck, that came out wrong! I meant, I want hang all over you and you to hang all over me. And dinner, so I can feel you up. And I don’t want you avoiding me anymore.”

Y/N’s hands paused while she folder her shirt, before continuing, her eyes never leaving the shirt, “Lindsey, you don’t get to come in here pissed at me because you got jealous, then expect things to be alright.”

“I don’t want that or expect that! Yes, I got so jealous when I saw you and Kristie together and I didn’t even understand what it meant. But then I figured it out, I wanted all our banter and jokes about being together to be real. I don’t want to call you at the end of bad day, because I won’t have to because you’ll be in the bed next to me,” Lindsey saw Y/N’s hands stop moving and the shirt slip back on top of the suit case, Y/N’s arms dropping to her side, but she still wouldn’t look up.  

Lindsey took a tentative step closer, not wanting to spook the girl away like she had initially.

“I want it all to be real. I want everything we had a couple days ago again, but I want it to be real and more. I want this gross longing feeling to stop because I have you again,” taking a risk, she gently held Y/N’s hand and giving it a squeeze.

Y/N squeezed back before letting go, “Linds, just because you got jealous doesn’t me this is what you want. You like the idea of me, you don’t like me. And we can try and go back to how it was before, but my feelings are real, Lindsey, I know how I feel about you.”

“My feelings are real too!” Lindsey gripped Y/N’s hand again, tight, “this isn’t just me being jealous, watching you with Kristie was just what I needed to realize that I was just too scared to admit how I felt about you. I know how I feel about you,” she finished with conviction, reaching for other hand and squeezed both tight.

“Ok,” Y/N nodded, seeing the sincerity on Lindsey’s face.

“Ok?”

Lindsey was confused, she poured her heart out and she gets is ok?

“I don’t know your feelings Linds, but I trust you, and if you say they are real, then they’re real,” she smiled.

“So, can I take you for dinner?” Lindsey asked, still shy even though she knew the answer would be yes.

“And you can feel me up all you want after.”

[b612sunsets]

Since we have less than half a season left, how do you think Gaon and Soohyun's friendship is gonna turn out? Love you and your posts!

Stop being cute! Thank you, anon! Lots of love. Sorry for the late reply but I wanted to watch episode 10 before giving my thoughts on this.

Soohyun should take a hint and move on, you know? I had a similar situation with one of my best friends. They confessed to me about 3 times during our friendship but I never felt the same and just wanted to be friends and not feel pressured or bad for not liking them back. I never knew if I was hurting them by saying and doing things that they could interpret wrong and at the same time I didn’t want to change how I treated them because I knew it would hurt them too. It was really hard for a long time, I felt uncomfortable too but I couldn't blame anyone. You can’t control who your heart wants. But you can and should work on moving on if you keep trying and being rejected. It’s a matter of self-love as well. And that way you can save what you have and build a stronger and more legit friendship from both sides.

Soohyun is always showing how hopeful she gets whenever they’re interacting and tries to make Gaon look like her bf in public or take his words with a romantic meaning when he’s always clear it’s platonic and he’s speaking about something else completely. Soohyun wasn’t even a first love. Soohyun only confessed when Gaon was crying and vulnerable about something in his life (like, wtf?). If Gaon does feel something back for Soohyun as more than friends, the writers are doing a shitty job of showing and developing it. Okay, he liked hearing her voice and in episode 10 Gaon said he had Soohyun, along with good memories of his family and his house (if I'm not taking into consideration that you can like your friends voices and the fact you have them in your life). But does he? Maybe that’s why he hesitated to admit it to her. Because up until now he only wants to have her in a friendly way, she wants more. He can’t show his true self or tell her everything he thinks and does because she would judge him and turn her back to him. He feels insecure and hesitates to do that with someone that's supposed to be his best friend since childhood. Unlike with, say, Yohan and Elijah. So no, it doesn’t seem that Gaon truly has Soohyun as more than a childhood friend for good moments and playing the good cops. Yeah, he seeks comfort from her but that's it. He doesn't reveal the details about why he needed comfort and often goes to see her only to hold back from doing something she wouldn't approve. If it's not the way Soohyun wants, she would arrest him (going by her own words, maybe in a real situation she can surprise us because she’s biased with Gaon and everyone else, if they’re not Yohan.) and whatever else that would make Gaon feel bad.

I have no idea how their relationship will turn out.. if they will distance themselves more from now on or get closer. What I don’t want to happen and don’t expect happening anytime soon or ever (bc let’s face it, it’s too late to start this narrative after 10 episodes of 16 even for slow burn romances) if the drama keeps it up with the good writing, is Soohyun and Gaon ending up in a romantic relationship. Same for Sunah and Yohan but if there was still doubt for the latter, episode 10 cleared it up. They can never be anything more than enemies until one of them destroys and stops the other. And I’m team Yohan haha

Woah, sorry for my rant! But there you go, that’s my take on Soohyun and Gaon’s friendship. I do respect different opinions so people should feel free to discuss about it, I just don’t think I can change mine regarding that subject.

[jazzanddaydreams]

Evidence and reasons to ship Sophiana that literally no one asked for

Disclaimer: I myself am a multi-shipper, so I ship both Sophiana AND Dexiana (and sokeefe of course), but anyway here's my reasoning for Sophiana (no hate to the other ships). This is WAYYYYY overly long and my adhd brain is crying trying to proof-read it so fair warning

1. Representation in this series. Even though I know it probably won't happen with these two, I can still dream. 

2. Both Sophie and Biana are strong independent females who have been sucked (mainly unknowingly) into love triangles in the midst of whatever mess is going on with the Neverseen. 

3. In the beginning of the series, Biana seemed to hate Sophie, but after persuasion from Alden, became friends with Sophie. From there, the two of them have had a couple of rocky moments (Alden's memory break, where she didn't hate Sophie, she just wouldn't talk to her or anyone, which is less harmful of a reaction that Fitz's. Also when Stina reveals that Biana became friends with Sophie initially because of her dad) but overall have been growing into good friends. 

Now for my evidence (be forewarned there's a LOT, but still not all my evidence bc I mainly skimmed through my books I had on hand): 

Book 1: 

Fitz in the first book is shocked when Sophie says she thinks Biana hates her, stating that they're  pretty similar (first book, I don't remember the page number or exact quote). 

 Page 272, in general, when Sophie hands Biana her midterms present, and Biana asks if she's coming over for dinner. After that interaction, both Dex and Maruca (Biana's best friend at the time) are glaring at Sophie. Maruca's reaction can be explained by being best friends and feeling like she's losing Biana (though hmm....), but Dex's reaction is a bit harder to explain, thus my reasoning. Dex at this time has a major crush on Sophie, and yes he hates the Vackers, but that doesn't explain why he's mad at Sophie, unless he feels like he has competition from Biana for Sophie's affections, and is glaring to try and stop her from forgetting he's an option (oh boy my poor child). 

Also just through the rest of this book, when Sophie is having troubles or avoiding her, Biana is actually worried, and cares about her friend, not lashing out at her, just wondering if she's going to come over, and being obviously disappointed when Sophie declines her invitations. "She's right though. Red is definitely your color." 

Book 2: 

Page 567. "'Uh, I've always known that,' Dex said, sitting on her other side. 'But remember? I like weird.' 'Me too,' Biana chimed in." We know later that this statement from Dex was him literally saying that he liked Sophie, but the big thing about this is that Biana agrees immediately after. Before Fitz agrees. This could be read as just friends, but I read it otherwise. 

Book 3: Page 590. Biana is fighting Gisela on Mount Everest, in extreme conditions. Sophie looks at her and is like "Did you know Biana could fight like that?" like she's impressed, and I mean it's very impressive because she's taking down an adult in extreme conditions, but they're in the middle of a fight, and Sophie takes the time to notice and point out Biana's fighting skills. Which seems a little bit ship-y. Later on this page she is written as smiling at imagining Biana fighting Fitz and Keefe and smiling, and then screaming when Biana almost dies, along with Biana's former crush (Keefe) and her brother (Fitz). 

Page 511. Biana literally hides in Magnate Leto's office when Sophie was getting her ability restricting circlet (HIGHLY FORBIDDEN AND DANGEROUS) and watches in silent support. She breaks so many rules doing that, and then to top it off, on this page she says she doesn't "think I could've been that brave." Which is extremely sweet given the circumstances, and knowing just how much she risked going in with Sophie and yet calling Sophie the brave one, it's just very sweet. 

Book 4: 

(Oh boy I love this one there's so much fuel here.) 

 Page 9. "Dex pretended to gag, while Biana stared at Keefe's arm around Sophie." This is generally read as Biana being jealous of Sophie getting Keefe's attention, but it can also be read as Biana being jealous of Keefe being able to get that close to Sophie in that way (and that is how I am choosing to interpret it). 

I would also like to point out that Biana chooses to run away with Sophie to be with the Black Swan. She doesn't have to. She could stay in the Lost Cities and serve her minimal punishment, then get back to her life. But she chooses the dangerous option to BE WITH SOPHIE, which speaks a lot about these two and how their relationship has grown from mutual animosity to ride-or-die friendship. 

Page 31. "'But we're in costume!' Biana argued. 'Yeah, but you guys will stand out. I mean...look at you. You look like models.'" Sophie literally says Biana looks like a model (along with the boys of course, but she's including EVERYONE in her group) (plus she also comments in her head NUMEROUS times that Biana is gorgeous, or pretty, or looks like a princess, and I don't know about you but I don't go around thinking about how gorgeous all my friends look, I mean they're all amazing people but I don't go around thinking "oh wow [friend] looks like a fabulous princess with their on point makeup and effortless looking outfit." It's just a little bit indicative  that Sophie might like Biana as more than just a friend, hidden in the deep reaches of her oblivion at least). 

Also I would just like to point out that on page 38, when the group sees the statue of David, Keefe immediately reacts to it, and Sophie has no immediate gross out factor, she's just like yeah it's art and this dude is naked so what, which I find a bit telling but idk. 

Bonus: Biana finds the fact that the statue is naked a bit disgusting, and is terrified at the thought of running into it, which also seems a bit telling. 

Page 77. aka the page where Biana compliments Sophie's eyes and calls them "striking and unique." 

Page 167, 168, 169. THEY LITERALLY SLEEP IN THE SAME BED TOGETHER TO COMFORT EACH OTHER. BIANA WENT TO SOPHIE'S ROOM FIRST WHEN SHE COULDN'T SLEEP AND IS IN NEED OF COMFORT, EVEN THOUGH HER MOM IS literally within walking distance away. 

Page 168 "The soft sound of Biana's breathing made the room feel warmer"

Page 615 "...especially when she realized Biana was there too. She pulled her soggy hair forward to cover her face. 'It's cold here.' 'It is,' Biana agreed. Sophie couldn't tell if the strain in Biana's voice was exhaustion or something else." This is after Biana and Alvar interrupt Sophie and Keefe basically cuddling in the cold after almost dying. This could be interpreted as Biana being sad that Sophie seems to be choosing Keefe over her, and she's struggling to deal with that. 

*~*

After these moments, Biana kind of fades into the background, along with Dex, until around book 8 (and even then....yes I'm a bit bitter that my girl doesn't get page time), so I'm going to skip ahead. 

Book 8: 

page 135. "...next to her daughter wearing a peacock blue gown with shimmering gold beading that was almost as stunningly beautiful as she was." Reminding you of her constant appeal to Biana's appearance, and also this is after Biana has been MAJORLY scarred, yet Sophie still finds her beautiful and oh look I'm crying now (onto the next!) 

Page 256: "'You okay?' Biana asked, plopping down beside Sophie on the grass and reaching out to brush some of the fallen pinkish, purplish, bluish petals out of Sophie's hair." this kind of thing is generally reserved for Fitz or Keefe, so I was SHOCKED when I read this. She's pulling the 'brushing the person's hair out of their face' ploy and I'm so here for it. 

Also, just Biana's reactions to Sophie dating her brother are a bit odd, as if she is only reluctantly okay with them being together. 

Unlocked (8.5): 

Biana's file: page 76. "Ultimately, though, Biana and Sophie have grown to genuinely respect and admire each other, and are now well and truly friends." This is under the heading explaining that Biana has trouble making friends because of complications with her brother,  and then goes on to mainly explain Biana's friendship with Sophie, which just...points toward the slim possibility of Sophiana. 

I'm not holding out a lot of hope, because I know it's probably not going to become reality, but I do have my reasoning and a decent amount of evidence, and I still can enjoy my ship from afar as the ship wars rage on. Because with these two gals, we could: 

1. Have the possibility of a healthy relationship where neither party is afraid to tell the other something

2. both balance each other out personality-wise

3. they've also gone through some rough spots but in all have retained a steady friendship in which Sophie isn't afraid Biana will betray her or hate her for anything (unlike SOME boys (I'm sorry, I love Keefe it’s just his decisions haven’t been all that great lately)) 

So yeah, tl;dr Biana and Sophie have the possibility of being in a great relationship built on support and trust and I put way too much effort into this

(Part 1 bc I’ll have more evidence eventually)

[ziracona]

What do you see happening after Josh is being rescued? Does he meet everyone of his friend eventually or some of them keep their distance? I read one of your answers about them abandoning him and honestly I don't think they didn't care at all about him, but the events were so traumatic and scary that they probably had a hard time taking into consideration that small possibility of him being alive. Plus I guess it's also part of the smooth flow of the game if it makes sense, Mike doesn't go after Jess either after he sees her falling into the mines and accuses Josh of killing her without being 100% sure that she is dead and without seeing Josh around when shit happened to her. But if I were Josh maybe I would be upset knowing they didn't come for me at all. So how would a reunion go?

That’s valid! You can interpret the lack of an interest in rescuing Josh to multiple things—that they are very sure he’s dead, if you want to be as generous as possible to them. That they think he’s probably dead and are afraid of dying too more than willing to save him, that they’re (sans Chris) too mad about the prank he pulled, etc. And I can see why people would go for any number of them. I think to me it has always read like they think he is probably dead, and the whatever he has, 30%, 20% chance? Of still being alive just isn’t enough for them to feel motivated to face very likely death to go hunting for him, especially with flamethrower dude just dead doing the same. Which makes /me/ angry, because Mike went batshit after seeing Jess wounded and dragged through a window and more trying to save her, multiple characters can kill themselves trying to save the others in the finale, etc, and I just think if you /can/ save someone who is your friend—or like, you have a shot anyway—you don’t know it is too late. You should. (& true Jess can still be alive and Mike will assume she is dead, but in his defense, so do basically all blind playthroughs she looks like she falls four stories or something while already almost dead I can’t fault Mike for assuming that was a 100% death there. Boy really tried. Whereas Josh’s vanishing from the shed is much less confirmed. There is no ‘I watched him fall’ here. Just a neither he nor his dead body were still in the shed so /something/ happened). Like I do get it, that’s a terrifying situation and not helping doesn’t = not caring, but I will hold it against characters if they don’t risk themselves to save their friends and I will be unhappy with them. Loyalty is very important to me. But it is a truly terrifying situation.

But I also get why they’d be terrified to go out there. I don’t think it makes them evil to not want to risk it till they have to, it just makes me disappointed in them. I don’t think I said I think they didn’t care about him—typo if I did, because I certainly don’t think that at all! I think Chris was traumatized and felt very sure he was dead, Ashley didn’t care (she explicitly says she thinks he deserves it and tries to stop Chris from saving him the first time), Emily doesn’t care a lot one way or another and is mostly on her own trauma right now and thinking about Matt and the awful shit she saw, that Sam does care but thinks he is probably dead and is in team mom mode and cares more about trying to keep as many friends alive as possible right now than anything else and doesn’t want to lose the others, and Mike is still pissed but also feels very bad and would prefer for Josh to make it but is also more focused on group survival and not losing anyone else since he just lost someone he loves horribly (based largely on how his reaction to the safe room scenario is either to kill Emily and feel awful but do it because he very vocally and visibly doesn’t want the others to be killed and she won’t go peacefully, and he’s terrified of losing them, or to try but not be able to because he loves Emily, and instead give the gun to the others to try to save themselves with in the event she /does/ turn). And although he’s a right coward bastard for leaving Josh if Josh gets grabbed instead of killed, down in the mines, I do think he cared about Josh. He seems truly sorry to some extent when he finds him, and does /try/ to lead him out of the mines. At the point they make the decision to go for the cable car key, I don’t think they don’t care at all, except Ashley. I just think they should care more. Although I tend to give Chris a pass because he just watched a man get beheaded, has strong reason to think Josh is dead, is injured, and spends the entire rest of the game more or less in traumatized mode quiet in the corner.

But that said I can also see why people would interpret the reactions to mean they all believe he is very dead, and mean they’re going after his corpse! I can see lots of basis in-game to interpret in quite a number of ways. And be generous to the fool kids if you want to! I /super/ hold abandoning Josh in the mines wildly against Mike, but Mike is still one of my favorite characters in the whole game. I love how flawed the cast is and that you go in hating most of them and only slowly grow to care because you don’t want them dead-dead, which keeps you there long enough to see some of their good sides. *cheff’s kiss* the great ability of the horror genre. The bar to initially invest is so low, it lets you have such a multi-faceted cast.

Okay anyway, original question! What do I see happening after Josh gets rescued and exorcised.

I think he meets up with all of them again eventually. Interesting to think from Josh’s pov how he’s going to feel. I expect to some degree he does feel abandoned, and fairly, and in RoB it is very clear he is afraid to some extent of Mike and Chris after being dragged off and tied up and left in the shed, and the things they said to him. He also /definitely/ feels massively guilty and self-blaming about all of it. He’s telling himself through Hill that no one will come for him and it’s his own fault by the final chapter. And mostly he’s just afraid of Mike and in ptsd dissociating mode by the time Sam and Mike find him. So, mixed feelings on his part I expect. Lots of fear and pain and hurt at being abandoned and so universally believed capable of murder, hurt, left to die alone in the mines. Pretty damn betrayed, and that on top of the hurt from what happened to his sisters and the inherent paranoia of paranoid schizophrenia. Hurt that they just left him. Hurt they didn’t believe him. Hurt nobody came for him until it was too late. Hurt he got betrayed again. Probably pretty miserable overall. But with that, also feels really bad about going too far and hates and blames himself intensely for everything, and I expect is also kind of not just traumatized but ashamed of what happens to him, and everyone knowing about the possession and the cannibalism. Probably he wants to lock himself in a room in the corner of a big house and never come out. But also is intensely and miserably and hopelessly lonely. Probably feels all of his friendships are likely broken beyond repair.

I don’t think they are though. Chris “I’m not your bro” six seconds later “bro are you for real?” Hartley almost dies trying to save him and wouldn’t care about the possession stuff except to be worried about him. Sam is angry and harboring some resentment, but clearly reacts to Mike reporting he is gone with regret. Mike would probably feel very guilty for leaving him and be hesitant to reconnect and then defensive doing it, but I think he cares. Jess wasn’t even there for this shit so probably she does. Same for Matt maybe? Ashley and Emily are harder to guess for. I think Ashley would be incredibly angry and resentful—I mean she wants him dead in-game, but might eventually join the others if the others got over stuff? Bc she’s also kinda a joiner? Really it’s hard to say she is a very...hair-trigger character. Volatile and intensely and massively changeable. Probably the least predictable of all. That kind of person scares me deeply in real life because I have been very backstabbed by them before. >.> But anyway hard to say. Also a lot of this depends on what ending, even assuming they all live. But I usually assume that like, Mike almost shot Em, didn’t, Matt tried to save her, Sam saw the workshop, etc ending. Emily I really don’t know. She’s a very self-reliant and hard person. She didn’t have anything very specifically for or against Josh with her experience, but wasn’t that close to him before, so I think she just kinda falls wherever she falls.

I think mostly though that they’d reconnect. Definitely Chris would jump to it, and I think Sam would too—she’s a well educated, empathetic and understanding person. She’d know he needs her. And Chris is his childhood best friend and cares the whole game. I think Mike would try to go too because of guilt, and because he’s a decent guy. Probably so would after not much time those least effected by what Josh did. I think Josh would be alone while being exorcised and probably reocvering in a hospital some after, and Chris would be the first, or Chris and Sam possibly. I think he’d be afraid to see them, and it would be complicated and messy and painful for them all, but it would be okay and sort itself out and they’d find old ground quickly. And having them there would be /incredibly/ vital to helping him recover. I think eventually he’d get back on his feet, and a lot of his old friends would be around and stay in his life. I think things would get better. I’d say the OG ExorJosh comic writer I think did a good job of guessing about what a lot of it would be like. Hard, and slow, and messy. But a lot of them care for him, and I think that would matter enough to help things get okay between them again.

[twdmusicboxmystery]

Acorn Symbolism: Romance, Promises, and Peter Pan!

Morning Everyone! Sorry it’s taken me so long to get this posted. As I keep saying, cray week. So, I said before that I thought they represented romantic love And I stand by that. For one thing, there are both a male and female component in the germination of acorn seeds. Hence, the romantic love symbol.

But let me mention a few other important acorn references as well.

@frangipanilove​ pointed out Daryl’s line to Carol last season about Ezekiel being “corny.” A play on the word acorn, perhaps? Now, maybe that’s a silly word play, but given the Serious/Sirius references and “Del Arno Foods,” it’s obvious that the TWD writers don’t mind silly word plays.

Now, @frangipanilove is working on a “nut” theory that will probably be much more comprehensive than this one. She has other “corn” references that are specifically around Ezekiel. I’ll leave that to her. But I suppose you could argue that this is a Carzekiel thing, rather than a Bethyl thing.

Or is it?

I would argue that it might simply be…a romantic love thing. After all, people in love tend to wax a little corny, right?

But there’s something else @wdway​ thought of that kinda proves the acorn reference is tied to Beth. I’d completely forgotten about this acorn reference in the show, so kudos to her for her awesome memory.

Do you remember there being acorns in the show before? Think about it for a minute. I will say it’s pretty subtle.

Okay, so take a stroll down memory lane to 5x11, The Distance. That’s two episodes after Coda and the one directly after 5x10, where the music box woke up. TF brings Aaron into the barn, Rick knocks him out, and they spend the episode trying to figure out whether he’s trustworthy or not, and also driving to Alexandria for the first time.

At one point, Rick sends everyone out of the barn to hide in various places and keep watch in case Aaron is part of a larger group that might be a threat to them. Then Judith starts crying because she’s hungry, and Aaron offers the applesauce in his bag, right?

But just before that, Rick tries to mash up acorns for her to eat. Voila! Acorn reference!

Why is that important? Because this scene has almost every major TD symbol in it, sitting in that barn. We have the flare gun (fire), a bottle of water with "Greendale springs” written on it, the music box itself, bullets, toilet paper, the applesauce, and even a dog reference (Fido) on top of the applesauce jar.

And this is the barn from 5x10, outside of which the music box has just awakened.

So, the acorns are most definitely a Beth reference.

Where do we take it from there? I’m not sure. I do think it’s significant that we saw acorns around Aaron right after the music box woke up, and we’re seeing them again now, right when something is happening with Aaron and the Whisperers. To me, that says Beth is about to appear.

Also, I won’t go into all the details now, but 5x11, The Distance, is another episode you should go back and watch if you can. There are SO many amazing references in that episode that we had no way of identifying the first time through. Eugene makes a “copulating dogs” reference. Rosita says, “we’re halfway there,” which I can’t help but see as S5 being half way to S10, suggesting the “dog” will return in S10. Tons of stuff like that all through it. Go watch! 😝

If you look up acorn symbolism, they can represent strength, much like the oak tree (which I’ll talk about in a minute). But that could also represent Beth’s strength. They can tell the future, so yes, they definitely portend something Daryl’s future, and are kind of the ultimate foreshadowing symbol. They suggest looking deep within ourselves (Daryl feelings for Beth) and that if something is nurtured in the right way, it can become powerful. Again, Beth nurtured Daryl like no one ever has.

@frangipanilove​ and I researched the phrase Carol uses, “double capper.” It doesn’t seem to be a real thing. I just figured it was slang, but it’s not coming up in online searches as even that. So I don’t think it means anything by itself. It’s just something mean to draw our attention to the acorn and its symbolism.

Also, the “double” part (2) might represent that we’ve hit the second phase. This hearkens back to retellings and the fact that carrots take two seasons to grow into maturity. It’s something I haven’t mentioned for a while, but we always figured there would be, symbolically, two stages or two times around for Beth and Daryl. The first was S4/S5, and they, as characters, hadn’t matured all the way at that point. We always saw it as Beth returning as stronger, more mature in her character and survival skills, etc. But it’s true of Daryl as well, at least emotionally. This is something I have touched on recently, about how he does understand his own feelings now and will be able to communicate them. So again, the “double” part might represent that we’ve entered phase 2, which is just a fancy way of saying we’re in the part where Beth will return.

Oak Trees

Let’s talk about oak trees, which produce acorns. You might even call acorns the offspring of the oak tree.

Sometimes it’s hard to tell what kind of trees we’re seeing, because we don’t get close up shots of the leaves. But we think all the trees in Fear, on which we’ve seen ladders painted, and Alicia is now painting Phoenixes, are oak trees. (Ladder Theory, Phoenix Theory).

We also talked about the tree in the opening credits—the one the plate glass windows hang from—and whether it might be an oak or not. We also looked up biblical symbolism because we all know biblical symbols are big in TWD, and they’re a big deal in the bible as well.

There are several cases of the holy men of the bible (including Abraham, Jacob, and Joshua) making sacred vows under oak trees. Sometimes they bury things in token of these oaths. Jacob’s is very significant, especially as it is entangled with the story of Jacob’s ladder, and remember that in FTWD, we’ve seen ladders painted on oak trees.

One story that stood out to me was that of Joshua. Reading it, I became convinced that the tree we see in the opening credits is, indeed, an oak tree. Let me explain.

In the story, Joshua utters the famous line, “as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” He then asks if the people will do the same. They make a solemn oath to always serve the Lord, and they do it under an oak tree. Joshua puts a rock under the tree (which represents Christ, btw) and says if they break their promise, the rock will testify against them in judgement.

So, the oak tree = a solemn promise. It occurred to me that’s pretty much what Rick did under the tree with the plate glass pictures hanging on it at the end of S8. He made an oath to honor Carl’s last wishes and not kill Negan. (“My mercy overcame my wrath.) And if that was an oak, then the one in the opening credits must be as well. (Bc of the plate glass pictures.)

And the more I think about it, the more significant that becomes. I don’t want to go into all the details of this today (because this post is about acorns), but I’ve said before that I think Negan will lead to Beth in some way (hence all the bats we saw around her). And the only reason Negan is still alive is because of Rick’s “oath” to let him live in order to honor Carl’s last wishes.

Remember the Phoenix near Carl at his death? (Alicia is painting phoenixes on trees in FTWD.) Well, if Carl hadn’t died, I absolutely think Rick would have simply executed him at the end of AOW. And if Negan is as instrumental in Beth’s return as I think he’ll be, then that’s super important. You could argue that but for Carl’s death, Beth wouldn’t have ever returned. Which explains the phoenix we saw just before Carl’s death.

Also, these new opening credits that start and kind of center around the oak tree began in S9, after AOW ended. Which says to me that Rick’s oath (keeping Negan alive, etc) is what’s driving this part of the story, now. So, this really is all beautifully and intricately connected.

And how do we go from the oath under the oak tree to an acorn symbol? How should we interpret that?

Well, this may become more specific as we learn more, but for now, here’s how I think of it. Just as the acorn is the offspring—or offshoot, if you will—of the oak tree, so Beth’s return (and Daryl’s happiness) will be a result or offshoot of Carl’s death and Rick’s oath.

Peter Pan:

All right, I’m going to switch gears and talk about one more possibility for this acorn reference that the lovely @weapon13whitefang​.

She said between the acorn in this scene with Carol and Daryl, and the “kiss” reference, she was immediately reminded of Peter Pan. In Peter Pan, there are tokens of kisses exchanged. Like thimbles. Peter didn’t know what a kiss was, so Wendy gave him a thimble, which was a token of a kiss. 

In return, Peter actually gives Wendy an acorn button. Now, technically, this is not an actual acorn (though many PP interpretations use actual acorns). Rather this was a term for a button made of wood, which in slang, was known as an “acorn button.” (Source) In symbol of their friendship, Peter and Wendy wore their gifts for one another around their necks on necklaces. Wendy’s acorn button even saved her life when the Lost Boys (on Tinkerbell’s angry lie) shot her out of the sky. The button stopped the arrow from piercing her heart and killing her.

This has SO many promising implications.

But first thing’s first. My first thought was about what this meant for the question of romance. You all know I don’t think this signifies romance between Carol and Daryl—I know it doesn’t—but I need to be able to explain why.

So, Wendy and Peter exchanged tokens, much like Carol giving Daryl an acorn in this past episode. The question is, was there ever romance between Wendy and Peter?

Meh…a little bit. Wendy was definitely crushing on Peter when she first met him, though it was as much the prospect of adventure as anything else. (Which might have also been true of Carol early on, especially as Daryl helped her search for Sophia.) 

But think about it in the long term. Things don’t work out romantically between Wendy and Peter. Wendy leaves Neverland, grows up, gets married and has kids, where Peter doesn’t. They always have a deep and abiding friendship—and even love—for one another. They wear their token necklaces for decades after their adventures together. But romance? No, it’s not really part of the story.

In fact, if you want to get REALLY detailed, why did Wendy first become disillusioned with Neverland? Because she came to understand that Peter brought her there, not as a girlfriend or companion, but to be a MOTHER to the Lost Boys. (Daryl and Carol have a mother/son relationship, as confirmed by Norman in S7.)

You could also argue that Carol finally putting the tragedy of Sophia behind her and marrying Ezekiel and finding happiness represents Wendy moving on from Neverland and getting married and having kids. Daryl is still Peter Pan in Neverland who’s never sustained a real relationship before. Of course, we think he will, when Beth returns. But for now, the Peter and Wendy analogy is very apt.

And it opens up a lot of possibilities for me. I’m super intrigued as to what will happen with this acorn. He put it in the pocket of his vest. Will it save his life? Deflect a bullet or something? Or is this less literal than that? If it represents Beth or his relationship with her, maybe it foreshadows that she’ll save his life in some way. (Something we’ve all theorized about for a LONG time.)

I also think it’s interesting that Wendy was flying when she was shot out of the sky and the acorn button saved her. They even called her the Wendy-Bird. Now, granted, in this analogy, Carol, more than Beth is Wendy. But still. 

1) We saw a plane crash this past season on FTWD, and we’ve seen several helicopter crashes, including one on the roof of Big Spot in 4x01 (Beth) and one when Merle returned in 3x01 (resurrection of character). 

These are representations of birds falling out of the sky. You MIGHT even be able to lump the satellite in with that. I don’t know if satellites are ever referred to as birds, but it did fall out of the sky, after all. 

2) How many birds have been used around Beth as symbolism? Blue Heron. Yellow Wagtail. Phoenix. Songbird.

3) And of course there’s a major precedent for the writers using children’s stories as symbolic templates in the show. The Wizard of Oz. Little Red Riding Hood. The Little Prince (FTWD). Why not Peter Pan?

So yeah. I gotta stop now, but let’s just say I’m still loving the acorn symbol and the acorn scene. They portend great things for TD and Bethyl. 🎉

Which acorn interpretation is your favorite and why?