#and not prioritize romance over platonic relationships???

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

fanon BFS: glimmer and bow are madly in love and adora feels left out :((( adora misses catra so much bc glimmer and bow don't care about her

canon BFS: literally the three of them are so close, they are RIDE OR DIE for one another and if anything, bow is the third wheeler sometimes. also adora rarely ever mentions catra in a casual setting or reminisces their past relationship.

[cheriboms]

tell me why EVERY TIME a story will be like "these two characters are so close, their lives are cosmically intertwined; theyll always choose each other; they have the deepest, purest, and most passionate type of love one can have for someone else" that the fandom immediately decides that means theyre romantically in love. like... how interesting that you read "deepest purest most passionate love" and kissing was your first thought. its almost like you subconsciously consider romantic love to be the highest and most valuable kind of love compared to other kinds of love?? 🤔 hm... weird!!!

[zannolin]

i can admit to myself i like slowburn because i'm more interested in the friendship and non-sexual intimacy aspects of the ships i like than the actual romance. i can be honest.

[dicipher]

I think an interesting idea- considering some people argue that there isn't much romance in homicipher, is that this game IS full of love, just not traditional kinds. Variety! Woo!

"Unconditional love, simply put, is love without strings attached. It's love you offer freely. You don't base it on what someone does for you in return. You simply love them and want nothing more than their happiness."

"Someone is said to be suffering from delusional love disorder when they feel that that their feelings of love are reciprocated, despite glaring evidence of this being not true. People with delusional love disorder often feel that other people are in love with them."

"A love-hate relationship means that you hold both positive and negative feelings toward something. In the case of relationships, a person with a love-hate relationship with their partner both loves and hates something(s) about said relationship. These feelings can be both simultaneous or alternating — someone might go from loving to hating their partner very quickly, or experience a complicated mix of both at all times."

"One-sided love, also known as unrequited love, occurs when one person has romantic feelings for another who does not reciprocate those feelings. This situation can arise in various contexts, including friendships, crushes, or even long-term relationships where one partner may not feel the same way." (Note: this refers to the player's love, not his)

"Caring, on the other hand, can be seen as a broader concept that encompasses concern, empathy, and a willingness to support and help someone. While love is often seen as a more intense and emotional state, caring can be a more practical and action-oriented expression of concern for someone's welfare." (Note: custodial as in, in charge of someone. Like a caretaker, parent, etc)

"Ludus is playful, noncommittal love. Ludus covers things like flirting, seduction, and casual sex. Ludus means “play” or “game” in Latin, and that pretty much explains what ludus is: love as a game. When it comes to ludus, a person is not looking for a committed relationship."

"Conditional love is often characterized by the idea that affection and support are given based on specific conditions being met (eg, behavior, achievements, or circumstances)." (Note: Gap's love is ironically, transactional)

"Platonic love is a type of love in which sexual desire or romantic features are nonexistent or have been suppressed, sublimated, or purgated, but it means more than simple friendship" (extra: "Self-love is a state of appreciation for oneself that grows from actions that support our physical, psychological and spiritual growth. Self-love means having a high regard for your own well-being and happiness. Self-love means taking care of your own needs and not sacrificing your well-being to please others."

"Childish/child-like love is blind. It buys love and doesn't hesitate to manipulate in order to do so. Childish love tends to control and hang onto and therefore doesn't set us or the people we love free." "Selfish love in a relationship is when one prioritizes their own desires and needs over their partner's. It often involves manipulating or expecting the relationship to cater primarily to one's own comfort and goals."

[8cfc00]

shaking my head as i draw ship art of two characters to indicate that i understand the harmful tendency to flatten characters via reducing them to their romantic relations and ignoring the platonic angle to their relationships, which contributes to the problematic prioritization of romance over all other forms of connection. but also i just really want to see that romantic tension

[olderthannetfic]

Quote from a post: "the things created within fandom aren’t real - an individual fic can’t cause actual, material harm to a reader, even if it contains tropes that would be harmful or distressing if they happened in that reader’s real life; an author’s use of certain tropes or interest in certain characters is not indicative of their actual morals and values in real life; thought crimes are not real crimes - but fanfiction is produced by human beings who are themselves products of the societies and communities in which we all live, and these societies and communities all have flaws and failings.

which is to say, those of us who prefer to read male friendships as romantic do need to be aware that, no matter how enlightened on gender and its foibles we think ourselves to be, we are nonetheless influenced as modern humans by a modern tendency to discourage platonic physical and emotional closeness between men - especially straight men - on the grounds that two men having this sort of relationship is inherently queer and, in being queer, implicitly sexual [an understanding of queerness which is another powerful societal influence on our thought, even if we know we don’t agree with it.]"

Okay this is from a big post from a big fandom account here please don't speculate who it is this is not about them specifically and has nothing to do with them i genuinely respect this poster and they are nothing but a supportive space and don't have any anti-nonsense. But I wanna talk about this point that they are making "the society is queering straight friendships" which is something also the anti-fujoshi crowd is saying and honestly I can't agree with that point.

I don't think its us the people who make fandom are queering the relationships between two straight men but the patriarchal system we live under and straight men themselves are doing it to themselves. They can't show love and affection to each other lest other dudes will call them gay not because there are secret fujoshis around that sexualize them. They can be vulnerable period lest everyone calls them whiney like women. I feel like (and most of the things I say here are vibes, not facts) men having close friendships with other men are green flags, and most women are excited to see men who have exact the strong relationship that are portrayed in media.

I'm confused by this talking point to be honest. I also understand that by saying everything I said above I sort of said the same thing as the original poster. In a sense that society is the problem here and we live in a society as we know, but... idk I feel like what they say is "we live in a society where everyone by default is sexualizing male friendships" which sounds like the standard anti-fujoshi talking point to me.

And regarding the point of romantic relationships being prioritized over platonic— I feel like is a complete bullshit to be honest.

Romantic relationships are prioritized over platonic ones across the board. Straight couples leave their straight friends behind when they get further into relationship too! I don't understand this impulse to constantly talk about romantic vs platonic thing when its about queer ships, and maybe there is somewhere straight ship discourse about romantic vs plantonic but its not as big as with mlm or wlw ships.

And honestly even with this take I feel like romantic relationships are also not prioritized but rather are more encouraged. And there is difference between encouraging and actually prioritizing I think.

(I want to add here that I'm not aroace so maybe its a blindspot and from that identitys point of view the dynamics might be different)

In reality I think both are equally hard to obtain and maintain. I always felt like the fandom being so shipping focused was not about people being hellbent on romance but just the fact that good love stories are few and far between both in fiction and IRL and we can't help but try to make something at least remotely good, or interesting or satisfying.

Again, my main problems is: 1) I don't agree that romantic relationships are prioritized to that high degree over the friendships like everyone claims. 2) I don't think that every single person is actually a secret fujoshi waiting to make any straight male friendship gay. 3) Fandoms are romantic ship centric because people just want more narratively satisfying romantic stories that are underrepresented in media (or they don't get to experience it IRL) rather than they are vehemently against platonic ships.

I don't know this hopefully came out coherent.

--

The person who wrote that sounds like a pretentious twatwaffle, and I am so sick of seeing otherwise reasonable people spout that crap. That's been true since the 90s and probably before.

The reality is that Western culture enshrines male friendship as the highest form of affection possible. This goes back to the Classical world. And, yes, they were probably fucking too back then, but the thing that all of the media is about is friendship.

The entire backbone of Western culture is built on the idea that men are spiritually, biologically, inherently more capable than women of this highest form of relationship. Romance is the big thing for women because we're not eligible for The Pure And Holy Friendship Between Two Men.

The epidemic of male loneliness is real, but we haven't gotten any less "Bros before hos". Fandom and m/m shipping behavior are irrelevant to this.

--

Furthermore, fandom has plenty of people who don't focus on shipping.

AO3 was built by slashers, so ship type is a top-level category, and the site obviously signals that it's about shipping and particularly non heterosexual shipping since you can filter out het.

Past sites often had more metadata that wasn't around ships (e.g. FFN's genres that work like bookstore genres) and almost never let you get rid of het. You might have been able to filter in The Gay, but straight stuff was literally unmarked.

~We do need to be aware of~

Bite me.

This naggy phrase is everywhere, and nothing good comes of it.

The only thing we need to be aware of is that Blorbo is great and s/he should be mashed together with Other Blorbo. If that's in gen adventures, you do you.

[velnoni]

Why I Can See Ford Pines as Demisexual

I see a lot of people headcanoning Ford to be ace/aro which is valid, especially after Bill joking/wondering if he's plansexual due to Ford saying he's attracted to preparation and logic. So I thought I'd toss my two cents in and say I can see him more as demisexual.

He's definitely dated before, as mentioned in the journal, but I think the guy probably struggled a lot to connect with people on a base level (whether platonic or not) due to receiving hostility towards his six fingers and not having much positive social interaction outside the family. When he did receive positive interactions, it was towards his academic endeavors (I say this, including his parents and school).

Let's not forget that the 30 years of running for his life didn't help with trusting people easily. Stan was his best friend, and maybe that could've been enough if things didn't take a hard turn for the worst. We see a few times in the journals/BOB how Ford feels lonely even when arriving in Gravity Falls. I think he really wanted companionship/friendship outside of his brother. And he had that with Fiddleford and what he thought with Bill as well. Kind of blinded him to the fact he was being used until it was too late, and that's taking into account Bill was an evil triangle con man.

Not to mention his work ethic was all over the place and lowkey unhealthy? The guy barely got any rest, I doubt he'd prioritize a relationship over his life work anytime soon or be able to manage both.

I feel like he personally puts the person's intellect, lifestyle, etc etc all into consideration as you would with a friend. Like what do you have in common or not, do you also believe in the supernatural and things like that. Literally just a friend and that would be enough, doubt he's actively looking for something more at his age— guy has a lot of catching up to do with family.

He's a smart fella, a bit too smart, but maybe comes off apathetic (as shown in the show), so maybe having someone who can handle that and clock it while not seeing it through the eyes of romance works well. And having trust issues, understandably so, would maybe have a relationship take some time regardless of what kind. He would need to build up some type of emotional bond/trust, especially after Bill.

There are some folks recently saying Ford shows symptoms of have Narcisstic Personality Disorder (NPD) which is quite interesting and after rewatching the show I can understand with the moments we were given.

But idk, when I think about it maybe Ford wouldn't mind romance if he overcame the hurdles of mistrust, certain social expectations, his own ego, better work schedule (with the help of the twins & Stan) and many more things I'd speak on in another post. But does anyone else agree? I can always make a headcanon post on what being with Ford would be like if asked in the ask box.

(I'd appreciate all the reblogs & likes please, trying to be more active :] )

[burst-of-iridescent]

No, Shipping Zutara Is Not Supporting Amatonormativity (Please Use Some Fucking Braincells For Once)

- a treatise by a severely pissed off aroace zutara shipper

since words don’t mean anything anymore (if they ever did on the esteemed piss-on-the-poor website), let’s start with a definition.

amatonormativity: the set of social assumptions that everyone prospers with a romantic relationship, thereby positioning marriage as a universal goal of adult life. amatonormativity forms the basis of several institutional structures that are built to cater to romantic bonds over all others, also manifesting in social pressure on individuals to find a romantic partner by pushing the false narrative that those who do not experience romance are automatically lonely, unhappy and unfulfilled. it is usually characterized by the prioritization of romantic love over other forms of love, particularly platonic.

the anti-zutara argument based on this is as follows: wanting zutara to happen is amatonormative because it a) devalues zuko and katara’s platonic bond b) pushes the idea that men and women can’t be friends and c) doesn’t align with the themes of the show, as romantic love was never the point of atla.

i would like to take the time today to tell you that this is some fucking bullshit, for the following reasons:

one, this may come as a shock to some of you, but zutara shippers did not invent the concept of romantic love in avatar: the last airbender. you are more than welcome to criticize the pairings of suki/sokka, katara/aang, mai/zuko, yue/sokka, jin/zuko, jet/katara, and even kanna/pakku for perpetuating amatonormativity through their unnecessary romantic subplots. and if you don’t have anything to say about any of those pairings, then here’s a word for you: hypocrite.

zk shippers are not introducing the taint of romantic love into some kind of wholesome platonic utopia where it never existed. when we say zutara should have been canon, it is a statement that ends with the implicit instead of kat.aang and mai.ko tacked on at the back because if we were going to get a romantic relationship anyway, it might as well have been one that was well-developed, narratively impactful, and thematically relevant.

two, saying zutara is amatonormative is fucking rich when the main “romance” of atla is a three season long struggle to get out of the friendzone. aang’s desire to be in a romantic relationship with katara is one of his primary motivations throughout the show, and not once does either he or the narrative ever entertain the thought that just being katara’s friend might be enough. to the contrary, aang’s crush and the potential of its reciprocation is a fundamental part of how the story gets its audience to invest in both his character and the kat.aang relationship. they want you to want him to get the girl, and that’s the driving force of the ship’s development from start to finish.

you can see the influence of this in the way people defend why kat.aang had to happen: “aang would be crushed!” “it would break aang’s heart!” “aang deserves to be happy!” and that in and of itself is more amatonormative than any version of romantic zutara, as if this idea that aang is somehow doomed to a life of misery and loneliness just because he can’t be with the girl he likes isn’t inherently based on the assumption that platonic love can’t be as meaningful and satisfying as romantic love.

three, let’s be so fucking fr: a show written by cishet men in the early 2000s was not “subverting amatonormativity” by not making zutara happen, especially not when they went for the fucking olympic gold of romantic cliches — the hero gets the girl trope — instead. otherwise, why did the entire show end with an uncomfortably long liplock? if romance would’ve devalued zuko and katara’s platonic bond, then what the everloving fuck happened to their friendship in the comics and the legend of korra?

it is blatantly false to say that zutara shippers are the ones devaluing their platonic bond when the creators did it first. they evidently don’t view zutara’s platonic bond as equal to kat.aang’s romantic one, judging by their treatment of both relationships in the comics and LOK and the fact that they talked about kat.aang “winning” the ship war in the first place. because if the two relationships were of equivalent standing, why would there be a winner and a loser at all?

amatonormativity is baked into the DNA of atla, and while some people choose to reject this framework entirely (zk friendship >>> ka romance anyday), it is also not wrong for zk shippers to be annoyed at the treatment zutara received within the context of said framework. since the creators clearly thought a romantic relationship was better than a platonic one, they could at least have picked the couple that actually made sense instead of adding insult to injury by making that romance kat.aang. it is not amatonormative to acknowledge that zutara was not afforded the distinction it should have been in the eyes of those who wrote it, because it’s obvious that the decision to keep zuko and katara’s relationship platonic wasn’t to respect their friendship, but to position them as inferior to kat.aang.

four, detractors of romantic zutara often argue that their platonic relationship is inherently better & i’ve discussed before why that isn’t the case, but i also hate this argument because it’s perpetuating the very thing that aromantic people are trying to get rid of in the first place: the hierarchization of love. it is not the “gotcha!” you think it is to genuinely state that platonic love is better than romantic love, because it’s still buying into the idea that there’s some kind of order to categorizing human relationships. the solution to amatonormativity isn’t changing what form of love gets to be at the top of the list — it’s doing away with the hierarchy entirely.

i ship zuko and katara because canon already gave me their friendship. i already know what their platonic relationship looks like and that gives me more room for imagination in developing their romantic one because it’s a place canon didn’t go.

at the end of the day, friendship and romance are just different avenues of exploring intimacy. neither is inherently more valuable than the other, and neither is inherently more problematic. and if you truly believe in dismantling amatonormative beliefs, you would recognize that making a distinction between the two is only perpetuating the problem, not challenging it.

[gayofthefae]

People act like they don't understand the fundamentals of TV show duos but Mike and Will are a TV show duo. Straight up. Full stop. They're a duo on the show. They are given screentime as such, they are treated by characters as such, they are marketed as such.

Dustin and Steve are another one of these duos. Dustin spends season 1 without Steve entirely. He spends a lot of season 4 with focus on Eddie. Does this mean he and Steve are less of a famous "duo"? No! And we all know that.

This is an example of when it gets to arguing these types of things, you discredit yourself. Mike is straight and loves Will but has been made more of a monster-fighting duo with Will, as he and El have not teamed up since season 1, is a thing you can argue.

But he is not a duo with El. He just isn't. They have a one on one relationship, they have one on one scenes. He is no LESS a duo either than, say, Dustin and Lucas - who spend a great deal of time together and collaborate, even having many singled out scenes together over the seasons, but have their respect default people they partner off with. We see this directly at the Creel house when they all split off. We understand what character duos are. We understand that it isn't an insult to say someone isn't. We understand these things.

Mike and Will are the duo. Mike and El fought in a group in seasons 1 and 3 but had relationship arcs. Mike and Will fought together singled out in seasons 2 and 4. They're on all the posters together. I really don't need to keep arguing this.

Now I'm gonna get counterintuitive to what I seemed to be saying because, of course, this IS Byler proof when elaborated on and I will, but really what I'm saying is that denying its existence when being a duo does not UNIVERSALLY mean romance, as with Steve and Dustin, that is an admission that it does for them.

And the argument that he is a duo with El is actually the only reason it DOES mean romance for them. If this were about the prioritizations of friendship, there would be no fight. To keep the comparison, Steve in season 4 has Nancy as a love interest but it does not make him paired with her more than Dustin in the overall show perception. She is simply seen as a love interest. It is the attempt to claim Mike and El are a duo that seals the deal for Byler.

Mike is a duo with Will. If it were platonic and they were prioritized, it would have been framed as him fighting the monsters with his friend while he is sometimes with his girlfriend in the group and sometimes she's off fighting other battles because look at my independent girlfriend go. That is absolutely fine and that casual separation of love interests when the focus is friendship happens PLENTY in shows. Take Shawn and Gus from Psych if you know them. Shawn and Juliet are not a duo and never have been. That is fine, though, they are no less of love interests and their slowburn is no less juicy for it.

But it's the mutual exclusiveness we've talked about so much. And it's the repeated fact that it is entirely possible to write what people claim is happening and that is NOT how it was executed.

Will and Mike are a best friend monster fighting time. Mike is with his sister. Together, they fight to get her back. Together, they fight to keep her safe. Together, they fight without her but are happy when she appears again. Whichever season you picture.

What DOESN'T work is the dependency of Mike's romance with El on being a duo with her. If the claim is that whoever he's a duo with is his love interest, you're claiming Byler. The claim is that he will spend season 5 with her, that they are already a team, etc. They know the couple parallels, of course, so they're claiming them.

But it's that claim that pushes Byler. Mike is repeatedly framed not as having a best friend he focuses on and a girlfriend he maintains but rather a choice to make between who is his "partner in crime". It would not be an argument if he had made that choice onscreen either. You're right, though common enough to be clear, it is not 100% consistent enough. Neither are Dustin and Steve, as mentioned, but unlike them, they are never mutually exclusive with one consistent relationship.

Time after time it is framed as EITHER Mike has a relationship with Will OR El. This is illogical. It should not be a dilemma of who he saves the world with. It should be secure enough that he is even ABLE to choose Will when he needs him with no threat to his romance in the same way that El would be able to choose Max.

Mike behaves himself by pushing himself in those ways, communicating to us that to be romantic with El, he cannot be a "duo" with Will. This is untrue, we've seen Dustin and Steve. They are always a duo and THEY know it. Steve resents it at times while he's struggling with his own jealousy of Eddie for Dustin's admiration, but he still says "we're just always partners". Tone aside, that's self-awareness of it. Mike refuses that acknowledgement. Mike refuses that Will is his person.

Dustin is the other half of Steve's duo. Steve still has a romance with Nancy. Steve is the other half of Dustin's. Dustin still has a relationship with Suzie.

You CAN be a platonic duo and still have romantic relationships, even with a fellow main character. In seasons 1 and 2, Joyce's focus is much more on Will than Hopper, but they still have their moments. In season 3, Max is focused on El, but she and Lucas remain together (they actually do throughout the season, they don't break up when El dumps Mike and all their referenced breakups are offscreen and she is referred by Mike as his "girlfriend" still in 3x06 - common mistake). Very very easy and very very common to have some sort of focus on a platonic pair that may even seem exclusive to the love interest at times but not cut them off in any damaging way, just in screen time.

It is very possible, easy, and common in both TV and life to equally maintain a romantic and platonic relationship while giving more focus to the platonic.

"I was focusing too much on El" is a statement you can make to a friend about a romantic relationship in that context. Completely normal and valid. Is not a claim that he should stop being with her in any regard. He could have continued to focus on Will in compensation for that behavior and focus on El offscreen as Dustin does with Suzie.

That is not what Mike and Will do. That is not what Mike does. He attempts to switch, force, and lie about who he is a duo with despite that being defined by quantity of one on one screentime, not character claims. Because he himself sees romance as something he has to treat as exclusive in that way. In the way that he treats Will. HE denies that Will is his partner because of how HE is defining it again.

It's happening again. Yet another example of how all of Mike's words and behaviors WOULD have been normal...had they not been delivered in the manner and context they were. Will said Mike hadn't called. Will compared it to someone he HAD kept in touch with. Normal. MIKE defined that as deeper than it was. He always does. And he reacted accordingly.

It is 100% possible to have a focus on a duo even when the members of said duo have love interests and have the duo itself be platonic and not with those love interests but keeping them as endgame relationships. It is 100% plausible to argue that that is what Mike and Will are relative to El. It is not plausible to argue that Mike and El are a romantic duo. It's just untrue. They are a romance. That part is fair game.

BUT Mike is the one who doesn't think that. I've said before and I'll say again, when Mike is with Will while in a relationship with El and becomes defensive, he behaved as though he thinks he's cheating on El. Even though everything he's doing is above board.

Mike and Will can be just friends and focus primarily on each other. In concept. Except for the fact that...Mike doesn't think they can. Mike doesn't think they are. And he behaved as such. So he signals the audience as such.

And THAT is why people argue that Mike and El are a duo when they aren't. Not because a platonic duo with a separate love interest can't exist. But because it has been clearly communicated to them that Mike views whoever his partner in crime is as his love interest. That was established after it was made clear that he viewed Will as his partner in crime. But they don't like those two facts to coexist.

If somehow they weren't romantic, they'd still be a duo. We know that even from leaks.[spoiler warning] They're spending the season together, much one on one, and without El. [Leak references over]. That would be completely in character of a concept...had Mike not established how he views his attentions and partnerships.

Honestly? This came to me because I realized: if Milkvan were somehow endgame. Everyone would be way more relaxed about admitting they were a duo all along. A

team

And the revelation of how much they would admit if Byler weren't endgame just shows what they think of as PROOF.

Everything they deny is something they think of as Byler proof. It's shocking how small and how canon some of those things can go.

[bloomshroomz]

Partnering aromantic writing advice

The topic of aromantic characters dating is a bit of a contentious one in fandom spaces, but I think that it can be a great way to represent partnering aros if you do it right. I'm not an author, but I am a partnering aro, so I want to give some advice (or at least food for though) to those who may want to pair aromantic characters with partners in their fictional works.

1. Start with their aromanticism first.

This is very important. Do not slap their aromanticism on as an afterthought to their relationships. Develop their aromanticism first.

How do they feel about traditionally romantic activities? Do they enjoy them? Do they feel indifferent to them? Are they averse to them? Do they perceive those actions as inherently romantic in nature, or do they not? Does it depend on the action?

How do they experience attraction? Do they experience some amount of romantic attraction, or none at all? Does it happen only under very specific circumstances? Do they experience other forms of emotional attraction, like platonic or alterous attraction? Do they experience physical forms of attraction, like sexual, sensual, or aesthetic attraction?

Why have they chosen to be partnering? Are they doing it to fill an emotional need, in a world where friends often don't prioritize each other enough? Are they doing it to fill a physical need? Are they doing it because they enjoy traditionally romantic activities, regardless of whether or not they personally view those activities as romantic? Are they doing it for financial, social, and/or medical security? Are they doing it out of social pressure? Are they doing it because they perceive no inherent difference between partnership and friendship, and don't object to either?

Are they romantically partnering, or are they partnering in a different way, such as queerplatonic partnership? Are they partnering in multiple ways? What does that distinction look like for them? Is there a distinction at all?

Do they ever feel burdened by their aromanticism because they feel like it "get's in the way" of their desire for partnership? Tread very carefully if you go this route. Do not "cure" their aromanticism. Try to build towards self acceptance.

Aromantic people can date, but our aromanticism can and often does impact how we date, and how we feel about dating. Even when aromantic people are in committed relationships, or want to be, we are still aromantic.

2. Explore how this impacts their relationships.

Being aromantic often makes dating/partnering more complicated.

Did their partner(s) know that they're aromantic when they started dating? If not, do they know now? How did that conversation go?

Did the aromantic character know about their own aromanticism when they first started dating, or did they realize it later? How did they come to realize that? If they were in a relationship at the time of realizing it, did the realization spark anxiety over the future of their relationship? Did it spark relief?

Do they experience difficulty finding partners? Is it because people are less willing to date aromantic people? Is it because of highly limited attraction? Is it because the aromantic character has very specific needs when it comes to relationships, such as needing a less common (e.g. queerplatonic) relationship, or having a lot of strong boundaries around traditionally romantic activities? Is it because their orientation is difficult to explain to potential partners? Is it a combination of factors?

3. If you're writing fanfiction, respect the aromantic character's canon identity.

If an aromantic character is canonically non-partnering, romance-averse, romance-repulsed, or similar, keep it that way. Hands off.

[bababerries]

I love pandora hearts for saying that the idea of having a “favourite person” the idea of having to be someones “favourite person and the idea that I’m nobody’s favourite person makes me feel lonely” is an extremely dangerous and toxic ideal that implies hierarchy in how you value your relationships and leads to you being tunnel visioned and codependent on others to ensure your own happiness. The idea of you needing to look over the people in your life and pick one to be the “most important” how that’ll often prioritize family and romantic relationships (I’m glad pandora hearts is a manga focused on found family and platonic love with little romance really adds to this) you ultimately do need companionship in life but it’s also okay to let people come and go. Our experiences with others effect us and help us grow but don’t define us

[many-gay-magpies]

god what really gets me about dead boy detectives and what i think i love so much about the show and the relationships in it is that like. the romantic and sexual relationships aren't portrayed as being more unique or important than the platonic relationships. they're all just RELATIONSHIPS.

charles and crystal's attraction to each other and eventual hookup isn't this big end-all be-all relationship that shatter charles and edwin's friendship and draws charles' attention away from edwin; it's just a THING that happens. they're just two people that care about each other and happen to also be attracted to each other, and a hook-up happens, then they decide that neither of them are in the right place for it and it's nothing awful. crystal kisses charles, but it isn't some big spectacle of her declaring her love for him; it's just her saying goodbye and that she cares about him, like her hugs with niko and jenny and her handshake with edwin.

edwin realizes he loves charles romantically and tells him, and charles says he doesn't really love edwin romantically BACK, but it's okay, because they still love each other so much in so many other ways that this one tiny difference could never change them—and it doesn't!! they're still just as close, still care for each other just as much, still SHOW that care for each other just as much. their relationship didn't completely end because edwin loved charles in a way charles couldn't reciprocate, but at the same time it isn't "solved" by edwin getting over it, because there's nothing TO solve. it's just another type of love, added to everything that already exists between them. and they have LITERALLY FOREVER to figure out what it means.

the relationships between edwin & niko, crystal & niko, and crystal & edwin aren't given any less weight for being solely platonic, just as charles & crystal's relationship and edwin's feelings for charles aren't given (that much) MORE weight for being romantic. crystal and charles' conflict in the closet is about EDWIN, about how they're BOTH his friend and BOTH want to get him back; it has very little to do with the feelings between THEM, romantic or otherwise. similarly, the weight of charles' and edwin's relationship isn't diminished in the LEAST by charles not reciprocating the romantic side of his feelings (or SAYING he doesn't reciprocate, at least—we can all argue about the legitimacy of that in the notes).

i'm sure there are more examples than this, as well as probably some examples that CONTRADICT this, but like... by and large, it feels like dead boy detectives is a show where all the relationships are given equal weight regardless of platonic, sexual, romantic, or familial status, and as someone on both the asexual and aromantic spectrums who has struggled time and time again with shows casting out the importance of all other relationships in favor of prioritizing romance, that is INCREDIBLY refreshing to see.

[lightningant]

I saw your thing with Snape being aro/ace and I wanna hear more about that. Specifically the reasoning behind it and then with the dynamic of him and lily :3

My reasoning is that I am aro/ace and he's my little princess.

Okay, seriously. He's derided a lot for being an incel, but what he felt was most important about his history with her is that she was the most valuable person in the world; that she was the new life he was running to, that he'd get a good job with Voldemort so he could establish magic supremacy so people like Lily and himself could cast off their muggle upbringing and flourish. He wanted to share his new life with her.

If we look at the memories, what Snape selects to describe what their relationship:

His fumbled attempt to connect with Lily over his magic, hungry for her attention

Him mentoring her with what his mother taught him (again he is hungry for Lily's attention) and his inability to understand her love for Petunia [muggles].

The splinter of Petunia and Lily's relationship, and the grounds of the Snape-James rivalry and what about James grated on Lily

Lily sorted to a different house, completely breaking down their dynamic

The beginning of Lily and Snape's splinter; that he has become obsessed with the Marauders specifically because James is in love with her, and she is frustrated Snape isn't interested in what his own friends do. Snape prioritizes Lily not being taken away over what she has to say. See above; he doesn't understand the worth of muggles, just fantasizes about muggleborn and halfbloods like them getting to shuck their heritage and go on to greater things. Very Fuck You Got Mine philosophy.

Snape repeating his worst memory on purpose. It is humiliating but core to what happened; he is the one in the wrong, he reacted poorly, he is the cause of their parting.

And a memory of him grovelling to hammer it home. She catches him out on his Fuck You Got Mine attitude; that muggleborn who love their muggle families and indulge their muggle culture are just mudbloods, but he refuses to believe that about her, because Lily's so smart and talented and superior and destined to outgrow them. 😬

So the purpose of these memories is pretty clear, that she had been very consistent while Snape kept trying to introduce her to his fantasy of a better life that she (rightly!) didn't think very highly of. When he loses her, he goes back to live at Spinner's End, wallowing in the world he was trying to escape, because escape was no longer possible. The wizarding world no longer had anything to offer, because uplifting her was so core to how he understood it. He just didn't understand her.

I think Snape's paternalistic treatment of Lily and obsessive attitude towards James would result in more signs of desire; in fact, he is at his most ravenous for her when he is like, ten years old. After that, the one who reacts with attraction is Lily, because she's flustered by Snape being byronic and hormonal at her.

This is all to say I just think there's solid basis to read Snape's love for her as platonic, and that not undermining what he is trying to convey by selecting these memories. I'm not crazy.

Narrative-wise, as in, "what does Snape's love for Lily being platonic add to the character": I do think that this is often a cop-out to make him a more appetizing character and rescue him from incel allegations, which is kind of a bummer because... I mean, he's obsessed with James Potter's sexual fascination with Lily and is paternalistic towards her.

I think it would upset him he's not attracted to Lily.

I think he would be pretty conscious that he is a boy and he is fascinated and enraptured with a girl, and how ~obviously compatible they are~ (🙄), and that should mean they start a romance and become more intimate, but...that desire does not exist. He doesn't want to date Lily, he just wants to... [vague gesture] have her. There is no way to process his adoration of Lily; the only way to make her exclusive to himself is not something he actually wants, but that means she can't be exclusive to him, and so James Potter is free to take her in ways he can't.

I'm even willing to assume Lily was waiting for Snape to express sexual interest in her, because every word out of his mouth since the day they met has been worshiping her and talking mad shit about her suitors. And I can definitely see a lot of her dejection and hatred of him as that like, oh, so its okay to consort with mudbloods, but you could never touch one.

Which he can't really refute; what exactly is the end state of being so deeply devoted to someone platonically? Not dating, nor marriage, nor "like a sister to me" (which is just a way of saying you aren't going to date, and anyway isn't true because he's never seen her in a familial way), an eternally open, hanging question of a relationship without a knot to tie the ends together, dooming them to eventually unravel. He wants her to love him as much as she loves her future husband. That's not how things are meant to work.

And he's afraid of it, but resigned to it, and ends up just letting it unravel. He doesn't bother to understand or listen to Lily, or express what's radicalizing him (when she told him off for being friends with Mulciber, it seemed to be the first time it's ever come up), or share his vulnerabilities, because he's always viewed her as an opportunity to show how worldly and wise he is.

And as an adult, selecting those memories for Harry...He's keenly aware of that, and regrets how poorly he treated her, and yet for all the clarity he's gained... that frayed, open strand of their relationship is still drifting and unresolved.

Which is, of course, nothing like how Aberforth or Aurelius experiences aromanticism in herringverse. See what I mean about these specific headcanons being an ecosystem. They're all chewing on each other to power their own hangups. Beautiful.

[note: this can all also apply to a gay reading, but part of the terrifyingly ephemeral nature of this dynamic is that there is no new direction to head in. There is no new catharsis that explains this more-than-friendship. There is only the fact of his love, which he nonetheless bore for a lifetime.]

A bonus theory on Snape's unabashed haterism; he is not really interested in Harry because he's not interested in Lily's bloodline; she was always a future, and now that future doesn't exist, so James Potter gets to pass down his superb genes and superb pureblood privileges and superb legacy, while unremarkable inconsequential muggleborn Lily Evans dies as the wife of a pureblood bully and a scar on her son's brow.

[our-aplatonic-experience]

I'm Aplatonic and Alloromantic, and I've yet to find anybody who understands.

I feel bad when I prioritize romance over friendship. I've never felt 'I have to befriend them' Only, 'I wanna date them/ oh! They look queer or autistic and I wanna talk to them!' I have the desire to kiss all of my friends and any type of touch is registered as romantic to me, which obviously causes problems. I can't tell my friends I love them because I don't mean it platonically. I can't mean it platonically. It makes me feel like a bad person when I see aromantic people comment about how people make everything romantic/ don't value friendships. I'm sorry I don't. I can't.

I've had to hear it from non aro people too. My entire life from elementary to now has been people telling me to stop thinking about/prioritizing romantic relationships. It's TORTURE.

I'm afraid if I tell any of my friends they'll feel weird about it even though it changes nothing. I still value them as people. I just can't love them platonically. It has to be romantic.

Please tell me someone understands

.

[jitteryfool]

It frustrates me endlessly that a series about about a messy, dysfunctional family that nonetheless still cared for each other ended up sidelining these familial bonds in favor of stale, badly-written romances. This was something that already started bothering me in the previous season. I was not watching The Umbrella Academy because I want to see the Hargreeves stumble into a romantic relationship, I was watching it because I liked the siblings' banter, I liked the dynamic the Hargreeves had with each other, I loved seeing a show centering relationships that were not romantic because god knows the media likes to pretend romantic love is above any other kind of love.

I wanted to see the bonds the siblings have with each other deepened, explored, developed and most importantly be treated as central to the show. I don't give a rat ass about their romantic endeavors because they're not what's interesting to me, what drew me to the show. I mean, I'm fine with depictions of romance as long as it doesn't end up being the focal point of a character or the plot, which sadly is not really the case in TUA.

I want familial, platonic love to not be treated as below romance. That's why Five, the embodiment of 'prioritizing family over anything else' suddenly choosing romance over his siblings is such a slap in the face.

[dragonstoned]

JAYVIK FIC REC BLOG Interest Check???

over 10,000 fics on ao3!!!!!! jayvik world domination baby!!!!!

that's a lot of fic tho and searching though them is hard. would anyone be interesed in a fic rec blog here on tumblr? more importantly, anyone interested in co-modding??? i have no experience running this kind of blog.

the goal of the blog is to be a somewhat organized, detailed compendium, but also be a loosely-run ship for people with different tastes. all who want to mod will be accepted. anyone who wants to submit a rec will have it published, too.

proposed ground rules are as follows:

follow the rec format (i will make one)

don't forget cws/tws!! but under spoiler functions

no self-recs (but you can submit your fics and they will be tagged as shout-outs! and anyone can rec it properly after reading)

recs will be tagged by author, relationships, story tags, wip vs complete, AND reccer. if any other wants to rec the same fic they can reblog with their additions and reccer tag.

jayvik MUST NOT be just a side-ship but the main one. that said 'main ship' can take many forms: plot-heavy with light romance, pre-slash, platonic but jayce&victor-centric, and poly are all fine.

prioritize fics with under 2k kudos. better to shine a light on hidden gems than stuff everyone already knows

what do you think, tumblr? good idea??

is anyone doing this already???