#and need to learn what queerbaiting is

[plotdevicetommykinard]

b*ddies need to learn the definition of queerbaiting lmfao.

buck is canonically bisexual and it’s not queerbaiting just because you don’t like tommy. hope this helps!

[castielsprostate]

breaking the sign in two by how hard im tapping it

[mars-ipan]

gotta say i've been in quite a few fandoms but i don't think any of them are quite as unabashedly queer as the gomens fandom is. it's very comfy here

[saint-starflicker]

The conflict-free cozy hopepunk is supposed to be a respite, not a norm. What demands for cozy-hopepunk-as-norm has become is toxic positivity.

Sometimes real-life people (from marginalized demographics, even) go through bereavement or trauma, and sometimes fictional depictions of that hold space for bereavement or trauma to process that through expression or catharsis. Sometimes there is no catharsis because that's not what's in the creator due to a failure of community support, so wow hey what a great idea for an audience community to then go "shut up forever because you create bad and so you should feel bad, minority creator of fictional dark theme stories" /s

Cozy hopepunk can still exist, but who got people thinking it was any sort of activism for there not to be any other kind of story?

I'm convinced it was a tragedy that tumblr learned the phrase "bury your gays" at the exact same time it decided that any fictional media darker than Landlord White was pearl-clutchingly problematic. Pouring one out for every creator of earnest LGBT+ media wanting to explore the themes of grief loss and tragedy who then got subsequently hounded by mobs of terminally online users brainrotted on nothing but conflict-free coffee shop AUs.

[bewarethemoonlads]

looking through tags for my favorite characters, wading amongst the x reader fanfiction whilst i search for photos/gifsets/etc: okay this isnt so bad i can just scroll right past these no problem

me getting swallowed whole by posts that use the word Queerbaiting completely wrong: okay well, this was not unexpected but it is quite fuckign annoying

[neil-gaiman]

hey mr gaiman. i saw that this post got revisited and wanted to address it.

i submitted this ask over a year ago on my old account and it was one of the stupidest things i ever did. it was my first tumblr account. id only been really online for a few weeks. i was 13. i was just coming back to school after a global pandemic.

ive been a fan of good omens for years and a fan of yours for longer. i was brought up reading odd and the frost giants and fortunately the milk, and as i got older i fell in love with your norse mythology book, good omens, snow glass apples, the sleeper and the spindle, and more.

i was excited to see one of my favorite authors on tumblr and tried to come up with the most bold and interesting ask i could think of.

i was rude and misinformed and it was a stupid choice of me to send it in with no thought.

but i got feedback. some in the form of kind suggestions. quite a few in the form of death threats and people telling me to kill myself.

while those specific messages were rude and hateful, the point got across. i educated myself to the best of my abilities, and eventually came back online.

not only did i misuse the term queerbaiting but i also implied that you were not an amazing supporter of the queer community. that’s absolutely incorrect. you’ve done so much for us with activism, representation, and overall kindness.

i wanted to address this ask that got so much attention because despite moving accounts i still feel guilt and shame every time i see it, or even when i interact with any of your posts at all. i need to actually address it.

also, i wanted a proper apology to be made. by no means am i now a saint. but im trying to be more thoughtful about thinking before i speak.

whether or not you decide to make a public response to this, i think ill find some peace knowing you’ve received this. ive needed closure on this for a long time.

im overjoyed and thrilled that season two is so close. thank you for tolerating the dumb questions of pretentious kids and thank you for helping to create a world where we can grow to be better than we were.

First of all, and most importantly, I'm really sorry that people were mean to you. That's awful. And nobody should ever have to deal with death threats or online threats and attacks, let alone a thirteen year old.

And secondly, you do not owe me an apology. I figure I have a Tumblr account, people ask things. Mostly they'll get nice replies, occasionally (normally when I'm being asked the same thing over and over) the replies will be terser. There has to be a certain amount of rough and tumble though, and occasionally I'll grab an ask that represents all of the asks I've had on that subject, and try and reply to all of them. That's what happened to you. I was getting tired of being accused of Queerbaiting for the occasional answer about a Season that was not yet released and about which nobody knew anything. And I needed to tell everyone who was doing this that they had to stop now. You had the misfortune to be the representative of all of the other people.

If you are not making mistakes you are not human and you are not learning anything.

(I wish there was tone of voice on the internet.)

And I think you are growing and learning and will make a fantastic adult.

I really hope you enjoy Season 2 when it drops.

[0-therw-0-rldly]

I’ll preface this by saying I’m not really a shipper. I just enjoy canon couples on TV Series/films.

Terms I’d like B*ddies to remove from their vocabulary because they don’t know how to use them correctly:

Media literacy: For a group that uses this term a lot you sure do misinterpret everything in this show.

Queerbaiting: Going to expand on this one. A show that’s already been pre established for having queer characters simply cannot queerbait.

Ship baiting: While sometimes you can argue that they could be doing that, that’s only if you look at the show in a very biased manner. You might think this is the case but the general audience doesn’t think the way you do.

Ship war: This isn’t a one tree hill situation where there was Team Brooke Vs. Team Peyton where the middle guy (Lucas Scott) had canonically been with both women. This is people not understanding fanon vs. canon and not being able to just watch the show. It’s like playing quarterback on Madden and thinking you could be better than Patrick Mahomes.

Plot device: everything’s a plot device. Move tf on.

Predator: You sound like crazy MAGA supporters calling everything regarding the LGBTQIA+ community as predatory. Sit down.

Co-parenting: I know this is a big one and discourse was brought up during the hiatus. Oliver and Ryan have loosely mentioned this years ago but it was never to be taken this seriously. Do y’all even know what co-parenting is or are you that big of a donut? Buck is someone who loves his best friend deeply and by extension, his kid too. Him taking care of him frequently does not make him a co-parent. Maybe he is a parental or uncle figure, but he isn’t a co-parent. Also, I swear y’all need to learn how a will works. He is a GODPARENT, not a GUARDIAN. Stfu.

Hag: This especially applies to women, but to say that someone 25-30+ is a hag for still being in fandoms or enjoying tv shows/films is inherently misogynistic. Men are never held to this much criticism for enjoying fictional media, but women aren’t allowed to?

Queer Coding: people of the same sex “looking at each other”, hugging, or having intimate moments all together doesn’t make them queer coded. It could mean that they just love each other that deeply platonically. While representation is amazing and just because you interpret a character as queer coded (just like my ship baiting comment) doesn’t mean others interpret it that way as well. In addition, network TV has stipulations, and also actors are allowed to decline storylines. Ryan has mentioned his character is heterosexual an abundance of times which means (at least for now) that he isn’t willing to go for this storyline.

Dead naming: Y’all construing the fact that Buck wants people like coworkers and some of his former love interests, to saying Evan is his dead name is inherently transphobic because do you even understand what a dead name is? Evan Buckley is shown as being fine with being called Evan by both Tommy and his sister. I’m pretty sure some of his love interests have called him Evan as well.

Fetishizing: You guys saw two hot guys who “looked at each other” and for 6 seasons have wanted nothing but to see those two make out with each other. Those of us who enjoy Tevan saw Buck giddy at the thought of Tommy and have wanted domestic fluff for them since.

Anything to do with racism, homophobia, and misogyny: I’ve seen the way you guys have conveniently weaponized Henren and by extension Aisha/Tracie when you didn’t get the Ryan/Oliver interview, don’t try to act like you’re morally superior. Not to mention wanting a canonically gay man to die in a show and not even holding those who use your ship name to write CSA fics accountable because you’re petty and want to throw hissy fits. Anyone looking at your comments as an outsider would think you’re homophobes and yes queer people can be homophobic.

I do hope you can expand your vocabulary. 🤍

[sharktooth-jacket]

Well I said I'd never make another tumblr after I left during the whole porn ban fallout but here I am askhgsj!! PLEASE tell me there's an active OFMD fandom over here because I finally finished watching it over the weekend and I learned that apparently there's an Ed and Stede shaped hole in my life and I'm about to drive everyone I know insane talking about them aslkglaksjjk

anyway MY TAKES!!!

so first of all this show is actually gay. like for real real. I watched the first season with a friend who's pretty big into shipping (no shade, I'm just not into that kind of fandom) and I fully expected this to just be queerbait. FRIENDS I'M STILL SHOOK ABOUT THIS akhgaj, I haven't been able to stop smiling since I finished it!! Because they're actually gay! And that's the point! THE POINT IS IT'S A LOVE STORY ABOUT STEDE AND ED HELLLOOO CAN ANYONE HEAR ME!!! Seriously I hadn't known how much I needed this show until I had it, I've never actually felt like the target audience for a show before

they could have made Ed and Stede so boring and one note AND THEY DIDN'T! I was sure from hearing my friend explain the premise that Stede would be this boring posh guy who's scared of everything, and Ed would be all tough and badass and boring, and that would be it. But no. Stede's a total weirdo who says "buckos" and picks up noses off the floor with his bare hands and Ed's an adorable dork who is scared of his own spider tattoo. I love them your honor akghaskj

also can i just say. Ed's fashion sense. Yes I get that the whole show is about masculinity and he's forcing himself into a style of masculinity that's restrictive and reductive. But consider: IT LOOKS HOT akshgakj I'm obsessed with his jacket with the shark teeth on it (as you can probably guess by the username lol)

SPEAKING OF ED I'll admit I hadn't thought of this until I saw people talking about it but reading his story as a trans man allegory works SO WELL! It's ABOUT him trying to live up to an impossible ideal of masculinity and killing himself in the process and being enraptured with a guy who's soft and learning to find a kind of masculinity he's comfortable with! I'm chewing my own arm off! I loved Jim (canon nonbinary rep holy shit) but as a trans man I just love this read for Ed's character so much 🥹

This is unrelated but my friend had also been trying to get me to watch The Last of Us and the two shows kinda melded in my mind I think? I figured it out eventually but at the end of season 1 episode 3 after Stede's been stabbed and there's the dramatic lighting and everything I was not thinking "oh boy Stede's about to meet the love of his life," I was pretty sure it was zombie time and thinking "oh no and now he has to deal with the zombies too???" alsghaklgk. I was all "is Blackbeard a zombie hunter" and my friend was like. "WHAT" akghjkjgkk

I watched season 2 on my own and my friend had warned me that there were budget cuts and cut episodes and w/e, and obviously I'm sad there's no third season to look forward to but I still really liked the ending and if I hadn't been told there was anything up with the season I don't think I'd have guessed!! They're safe and they're together and they just get to be Ed and Stede now :')

my friend did warn me I probably wouldn't like where they took Izzy in season 2 and...they were right akhgaskfj, it wasn't bad or anything and I liked that Izzy apologized at the end and stopped being so shitty to everyone but I just couldn't get past what he did to Ed in season 1. Plus he just didn't feel the same when he wasn't being weird all the time 😔. I didn't really like Jim's line about how "he was Ed's friend," like Jim. my friend. WAS HE LMAO my friends don't usually call the British Navy on me and stab my boyfriend

on that note though I made the mistake of logging onto Twitter for the first time in like two years to see what people were saying after I watched season 1, and I got a bit worried when I saw people saying that Ed's actions in season 2 made him irredeemable. But uh. He told them to eat cake and then made them kill him, it sucked but I was expecting way worse asksksksgk, I just felt bad for Ed honestly (which I think was intended obviously)

I am so picky with TV shows but everything about OFMD was just so fucking GOOD! The writing, the acting, the cinematography - everyone came into this show to do A GOOD JOB and it SHOWS

STEDE BONNET IS MY BEST FRIEND look at how far he came!!! He was so scared to even talk about running away with Ed in season 1 but now he's all in too 🥹🥹🥹

and I know I already said this but if you told me ten years ago my new favorite show would be one that was entirely about the central gay couple and they canonically kiss and have sex and love each other I wouldn't believe you!!! THIS SHOW IS SO GOOD

OKAY I'm sure I've got more to yell about later but that's my thoughts for now and I wanted to make a post so people know I'm not a bot alkghalkkj, if you like OFMD and love Ed and Stede too let's be friends!!!

[boyfriendsmalec]

Why I believe Stranger Things is NOT Queerbaiting Byler

In Stranger Things Will and Robin's queerness is taken seriously. To me a major hallmark of queerbaiting is teasing at a queer relationship by treating the idea as a joke.

But when has Will's love for Mike ever been played for laughs on the show? Never. Mike and Will's relationship is treated with genuineness and sincerity. Actually Mike and Will's relationship is treated more seriously than Mike's canonical romantic relationship! In S3 Mike and El's relationship is largely played for laughs, the breakup itself is comical and light-hearted. Whereas Mike and Will's argument is treated seriously and is given a stormy backdrop to match the melancholy mood.

Robin coming out isn't treated as joke by Steve. To lighten the mood he questions Robin's taste in women saying Tammy Thompson is a terrible singer, but these jokes between Steve and Robin is only done after Robin is out and these jokes are not at her expense, but is instead Steve normalizing her queerness and not treating her any different than he would a straight friend.

Also Will being canonically gay and in love with Mike is massive. How many queerbaited ships have one half of the pairing become canonically in love with the other? Almost none that I can think of.

People for the longest time thought Will himself was being queerbaited (especially after S3 with the line "It's not my fault you don't like girls"). Noah at the time said Will's sexuality was open for interpretation, but later after S4 aired Noah confirmed that he made these comments to hide the reveal of Will's sexuality and him being in love with Mike.

Revealing Will's romantic feelings toward Mike in the penultimate season is huge. Plus Finn saying the painting lie will "pay off in the end" means that Will's feelings will have to be revealed to Mike. Mike is going to figure out Will is in love with him in Season 5, there's no question about that. And we already know they're teamed up next season, while it seems El's storyline is almost entirely separate from Mike's. Why would they commit this much screen time to the build-up of Byler only for Will's feelings to go unreciprocated? Multi-season rejection arcs just don’t happen. Byler is being built-up for a reason.

I understand some may feel burned from being queerbaited by shows in the past, but again Stranger Things is not presenting to me any of the typical queerbaiting red flags. It's treated seriously in the show and by the cast and crew. Will in S4 is revealed to be in love with Mike, making the ship already semi-canon.

And just think about it: If Byler wasn't going to be canon, why all the secrecy? What could they possibly be hiding? I'm sure the Duffers and the cast (especially Noah as a gay man) are well-aware of the queerbaiting allegations and would've stifled the Byler talk if they weren’t happening in Season 5.

At this point I'm pretty much convinced Byler is happening (what I worry more is about the execution of their relationship, but that's for another post). But my being convinced about a Byler endgame goes far beyond color theory and lighting and set design and blocking. It's woven into the narrative of the show.

As the famous Byler Lawyer said: El is learning to not need Mike anymore, Mike wants to be needed, and Will will always need Mike.

Byler not happening will go against all three characters arcs, and would go away from the messaging of the show of embracing nonconformity and having the outcasts win for once.

[dotthings]

The reason for the ambiguity Misha references--the it could be that, or it could be something else--was the writers writing Destiel into the canon with queer coding, without tripping corporate alarms that would result in a hard no and a full shutdown. Queer coding is still part of canon, although not operating the same way things do when writers have a greenlight to make it expressly clear. They got that for Castiel's confession. Dean's side is still in the ambiguous area but is the same goals and method as with Castiel. People need to learn to add 2+2 and get 4. With Cas, they got a greenlight to make it absolutely clear text. Dean therefore...is only missing that final step. Right along, once the writers started doing the hints, both Dean and Cas were queer coded, and interested in each other. Missing the final piece on Dean's side doesn't make it "imaginary" or fake or not part of the canon that Dean is bi, and in love with Cas. It's that Cas is the only one that got the clear runway to go loud and clear. I think Dean's side isn't subtle. I don't think it's all that hard to spot what the writers were doing. And we also know from a previous statement from Misha that both he and Jensen, and the writers, "leaned into it."

The fact that the denialism about Castiel's side of it is still at ridiculous levels despite that being expressly greenlit and made expressly clear but we still have to wade through denialism about Cas being queer and in love with Dean.

I am not going to have patience with people who play denialism on the queer coding on Dean's side, even if we don't have expressly greenlit openness like with Cas.

This shouldn't have to be such an issue, or people get hate just for reading Dean as bi, let alone the ongoing hatred and denialism about queer Cas in love with Dean. Queer coding exists.

We have multiple confirmations how purposefully the writers set about doing this despite the ceiling placed from above. They were not mocking shippers. They weren't telling you that you're insane for seeing it with one hand while doing Destiel with the other. It's that they couldn't speak. It's that they didn't have a full greenlight. So they pushed it as far as they could. It's real. It's part of the crafting of the series. It's in the text. It wasn't queerbaiting, because the intention wasn't to dangle and rug yank, and not take it seriously, the intention was to put Destiel in there, while having to dodge external obstacles that would stifle it.

More people need to understand how queer coding can be part of canon or the methods creatives in Hollywood still to this day have to resort to for how media and "canon" and queer coding works.

"Cas is gay" is expressly canon and is loudly spoken. I'm still waiting on WBD US to acknowledge it in spn promotional materials, and quit going with this pretending it's not there while they look the other way and permit it, but it's still out there, it's done.

"Dean is bi" is queer coded still, but that doesn't mean we can't say Dean is bi in the canon and in love with Cas, because that is what the canon coded for Dean. It's there. It's not...out there the way Castiel's confession moved things for Cas. But it's there.

Castiel's confession was confirmation on what many people had already noticed and things already built into the story. It wasn't "out of nowhere." It wasn't inserted at the last minute for "pandering." It was the final step in a years long build. Dean's feelings for Cas...had similar build and the next step would be--

[heytemporary]

I rarely post in these tags but tell me why those orange green heart broccoli explosion emoji combo whiners are trying to infiltrate the bnha critical tags just because their mid ship wasn’t confirmed official.

What actually made you believe bakugo and midoriya was ever going to get together? Like I need you to be serious for a second. Did it seriously take you this long, 8 entire damn years for you to finally get your wakeup call???

Like gtfo out of the tags with your delusional ao3 “”queerbaiting”” ass. I’m trying to see well informed written analysis and learn from Horikoshis mistakes on how not to fail as a writing enthusiast.

Go create your own tags or something like anyone gives a damn about your inherent power imbalance ship.

[sonseulsoleil]

I’ve seen some posts that are variations of “I wish they’d just queerbaited me instead” and while I’m sure most of them are jokes, it’s still rubbing me the wrong way.

I first read Good Omens when I was about 15 years old. At the time I was closeted, and extremely depressed. I knew I was feeling a lot of things that I wasn’t “supposed” to be feeling, and that I wasn’t feeling other things that I thought I should be feeling. I knew I was different, but I hadn’t figured out exactly how yet. Good Omens came into my life during this time, and it spoke to me. Crowley and Aziraphale’s relationship was not defined, but the queerness was obvious, just beneath the surface. And even beyond them, it was a book about choosing love. Adam chooses his love for his family and friends and Tadfield over being the antichrist. Anathema chooses a life with Newt over Agnes’ predictions. Crowley and Aziraphale choose their love for the world, for humanity, and for each other, over their duties. It’s against the rules. It’s deviant. But it’s the right thing to do. Love, in every form, is always right, that’s what I learned from Good Omens as a sad repressed queer teen. And I fucking loved it. I saw myself and my own struggles in that story.

When the first season of the show came out, there were a lot of accusations of queerbaiting thrown around, but I never saw it that way. It’s always been a story drenched in queer themes and motifs, intentional or not. Would it be nice to see the angel and demon kiss? Of course. But I didn’t need it. I was happy with the story the way that it was.

And then season two came out, and honestly? I underestimated how much blunt textual queerness would mean to me. And I’m not just talking about Crowley and Aziraphale. All the queerness. Maggie and Nina. The magic shop owner and his spouse. Beelzebub. The story of Beelzebub and Gabriel falling in love and choosing each other over their respective sides, which took those queer themes already present and doubled down on them. Even little things like Crowley offhandedly saying “actually not either” to “you’re a good lad” took my breath away.

The ending was heartbreaking, but it was heartbreaking because it felt so real. It tapped into a specifically queer pain, the pain of repression and fear, and how easy it is to give into the desire to simply fit in, and how that can tear apart our relationships.

It truly, sincerely, means so much to me. This story that I’ve loved and seen myself in for over a decade, has just said back to me, loudly and utterly unapologetically: yes, you are a part of this story. yes, it’s for you.

So, no. I wouldn’t have preferred to be queerbaited.

[tastywormfood]

Ive tried to get my feelings about Moominvalley s4 into words, but im having a really hard time even accepting them. But ill try!

So here's my thoughts in Moominvalley s4.

Im 23 now and i remember being 12 - 15 figuring out my identity, and the only "representation" in mrdia being basically either "Bury your gays" trope or just queerbaiting. I grew up on a base level thinking i wasnt allowed to exist, and if i still dared to, tragedy would be my only birth right.

I believed i wasnt allowed to live a happy, soft AND queer life, cause no media i had seen had ever showed me that, that was a possibility.

Both the 90's Moomin series and Moominvalley 2019 are my comfort shows. I fall asleep to them at night, i listen to them like a podcast while im working or outside, they even calm my panic attacks. I collect cups, plushies, i collect the Comics and even some of the books.

I have 3 Moomin tattoos. This universe means a damn lot to me, and to thousands of ppl world wide.

As a queer person i find incredible comfort in Tove Janssons work, and you have to be a fool to be unable to see the way Snufkin and Moomintroll are written together.

I have been following this show since early 2020 and have watched interview to interview, ive listened to the podcast more times than i can count, and they knew what they were doing.

From the beginning of the show they deliberately wrote Snufkin and Moomin to be something more, they even confess In a BTS that their Moomin might like Snufkin more than Snorkmaiden. Even the podcast talked about it!! We are not crazy!!!

I feel incredibly gaslit by the entire situation, and suddenly im 14 again being told im reading too much into it.

Idk what happened inbetween S3 and 4, but it felt like all the love and care that came from the show, just disappeared?

Ignoring Snufmin for a second, every episode this season felt like a filler. It has no plot, followed up on nothing from the last seasons, and had an extreme amount of loose ends.

The former seasons, especially s1 and 2 has such amazing writting, character development and just a feeling of patience and of softness, i would watch it and think everything would be okay... But this season felt stripped of every inch of the care Tove Jansson put into her universe.

I want to talk a little about Moomintroll.

One of Moomins character Arcs is his want to grow up, its his need to be taken seriously and his need for independence and adventure. His need to step out of his dads shadow, and to be his own moomin! The character development he had built up through out the seasons, completely and utterly disappeared. There is no trace of anything in s4.

He is right back to where he started in s1, not being able to stand up for himself and say no, not having the confidence to go on adventures and right back to idealizing his dad. If anything this entire season felt like a prequal! Cause at least s1 Moomintroll wanted to learn, and was activily trying to change.

Moomintroll truly felt like a side character this season, i dont even think he has any important moments. Unless you count Comet in Moominvalley (which i dont), where all his independence has disappeared. Moominpapa literally has to push him out. He made one decision that eps, which was to float down the river instead of walking, which ended up being the wrong and slower way.

The regression Moomintroll went threw this season is heartbreaking, and thats not my Moomin.

Focusing for a bit on Snufkin, this season felt like a slap to the face.

They know that Snufkin is one of their most popular characters right? If not the most popular. If anything he is at least in the top 3, not only in Moominvalley but in the rest of the moominverse.

So why did this season feel like Snufkin erasure?

He was barely in it, and when he was all of that glow that normally radiats from him was all gone. He felt like the husk of a character.

This version of Snufkin was on of my favs, cause you could actually see his flaws and disagree with his actions. He had room to grow, and he did, he truly did.

He learned from Moomin just like Moomin learned from him. Their characters Arcs co align witch each other, their relationship and interactions are the pillars of the entire show. Snufkin and Moomintroll are what make the show proceed.

Finding the 2019 show for the first time as an 18 year old gave me confirmation and trust, that i was allowed to live a soft and slow life as a queer person. If Moomintroll and Snufkin could have that kind of beautiful queer slow burn romance, then i had a chance to as well.

They knew that a big part of their viewers are queer, and they knew how popular Snufmin was. They knew what kind of ppl they attracted, or they wouldnt have made it like that.

All the soft moments, the longing, the zoom in on eye contact, the zoom in on hand holding. They said trust us, they said be patient, and then they threw everything they had been building up out and set fire to it.

We got Queerbaited, and i truly havnt felt this feeling for a while. We got actual queer shows now, ofc they all end up being cancelled! But they exist!

This show felt like it was crafted with so much love and care, that i completely let my guard down. The entire queer Moomin community did a 5 year long trustfall, just to hit the floor the last second.

Season 4 of Moominvalley felt empty. It felt lost of all care and love. The first 3 seasons felt handcrafted by warm hands, season 4 felt machine made. Easy to digest, with no real soul.

Season 4 of Moominvalley feels souless.

I have chosen to live in a world where Comet in Moominvalley is a prequal to s4 and that s4 is a prequal to s1. The true last season was S3 and Moominvalley ended with Snufkin and Moomin walking arm in arm. Thats the only way i can Rationalize everything.

I have so much more to say, but ill stop here for now. Hope all of you are doing okay<3

[unicornachos2]

After finishing ROTE I'm trying to sort out my feelings about Robin Hobb as an author and it's sO hard. I've never had such a complicated relationship with an author while reading a series I don't think.

I think it comes down to her being... Kind of erratic and very contradictory in her work?

Like, she often seems to have amnesia about what she's built up in a character and then writes them differently like... Fitz learns and says things and then a book later he's back flipped or forgotten completely (perhaps bc RH herself forgets how he feels or what he's said in previous books? Which leads to inconsistent characterisation?) Some of how Beloved is written at the end of Ass Fate.... Idk if it's just BC it's from Bee's perspective, but there's stuff there narratively that makes no sense... Or maybe it does after all the trauma Beloved experienced? The way she wrote Nettle in tawny man vs how differently she's written in F&F....the way characters are inconsistently written bc the plot needs them to do certain things at certain moments.....

The way she has Beloved seriously question comphet gender stereotyping in ass quest and then.... Proceeds to nonstop write comphet gender stereotyping nonsense everywhere you look throughout the entire fucking series

Her writing of women and the way she pairs up any two cis characters of opposite sex who will stand next to each other just to make them reproduce as if she's Burrich forcing two horses together pisses me the fuck off, and I've already talked about that. P.S. on this. wHY did we need Lant/Spark? Insane.

Ass apprentice and royal assassin were absolute slogs for me, where I wasn't actually enjoying what I was reading and actively did not enjoy most of those books, but felt a very strong need to keep reading just to see what would happen?

Killing Chade offscreen after being with him for 16 entire books, never seeing Mercor again, Wintrow's weird fade-out in the series despite having so much focus in liveships

The way she wrote about ableism and disability with the dragons and rain Wilders was suuuuper flawed and I wish she hadn't gone there bc of how badly it was done. Thick could have literally been called anything else and nothing would have changed in the story

The way the story tries to be realistic in some areas and wildly unrealistic in others and how often it feels like whiplash

The way so many important things just go unfinished or skimmed over at the end of her books BC she seems to run into her word limit or something

And the magic systems just straight up make zero sense if you think about any of it too hard- whatever happens happens bc it serves the plot

And I think finally, this weird idea that I've never come across in any other series, about needing to choose between the people you love that permeates throughout ROTE. The way the author fabricates this false choice, where you have to choose who you love most and stay with them and them only. Burrich's "a horse can't wear two saddles". How Robin Hobb underscores the beauty of the stone wolf scene by needing to have Fitz remark to Bee that she lied well (indicating that he does in fact love Bee more than Beloved). How Molly would have spurned Nighteyes. How Burrich for some reason had to choose between Patience and Chivalry. Fitz, and countless other characters are always made to clarify or choose between who of their loved ones they "love the most". Again, absolute nonsense.

And then like. Somehow she manages to write the most beautiful prose and the most insane fucking queerbait of all time? (With a big No Homo stamped over all of it). And develops such loveable, flawed, interesting characters, and such engaging world building. Patience's entire existence, and the humour in the series and how insanely funny some moments are. Fitz's friendships with Riddle and Thick. Nighteyes. Bee and Fitz coming to know one another. The edge of your seat moments when you have to keep reading despite the horrible hour just so you can find out what happens. How Beloved and Fitz ultimately do change the world for the better. The life lessons given, and some of the clearest insights into trauma I've ever read. The tiny details that keep you fed to allow you to theorise and speculate. The way she's able to thread one theme throughout narrative, character, and dialogue.

I've never been so conflicted tbh. Like. I can understand why people are obsessed with this series (clearly I'm here in this camp), but I can also totally understand why people would never be able to get into this series, too. Like. I don't think I can ever rec it to anyone I know, just purely based on the final 10 chapters of Ship of Destiny. The fucking weird shit Verity did to Fitz and Kettricken. Like I think there are so many valid reasons why this series isn't as popular as other fantasy series, why it's never been turned into some big GOT style tv show (not that that is in any way a marker of quality, I'm just saying), etc. Like I love it, and I will always love it and I'm going to be thinking about it for the rest of my life, but I also. Did not enjoy or like a lot of ROTE, too. Anyway, two things can simultaneously be true and exist!

So I'm just. I'm processing. Anyway FitzLoved forever peace out

[juniperhillpatient]

my beloved mutual what are your thoughts on callieshauna. i’ve been into them for a while and now i’m really obsessing over them with s3 but it’s hard to find stuff about them. i’d love your input

Omg love the new url my beloved mutual ❤️

Let’s TALK about Callie x Shauna actually because there is SO much to discuss. It’s one of the most fascinating, complex relationships on television & it’s almost like nobody wants to “go there” & talk about it so let’s do it.

So, in season 1, we have this:

Callie is immediately paralleled with Jackie. She unknowingly wears Jackie’s uniform & it fucks Shauna (who is already hallucinating teen Jackie) up beyond belief.

It’s important to remember that Shauna is forever defined by the losses of Jackie & her baby. I think other losses - Javi, whatever happens with Melissa, I’m sure other stuff to come - are also IMPORTANT. But Shauna DEFINES herself by the loss of Jackie & the baby. These are the moments that broke her & warped her into the truly shattered person that she is. Unfortunately for Callie, she’ll always be the baby that was born after her brother died. She’ll always be the teenage girl in Shauna’s life that reminds her of Jackie, who is gone & will never have the opportunities Callie has. Shauna will always resent Callie for existing in this slice of normalcy that Shauna herself never got to hold onto. But that’s still her daughter & she STILL sees these important people she lost in her so she ALSO loves her & wants desperately to protect her. The resentment & protectiveness & love & hate are all mixed together in a delicious incestuous cannibalistic haunting the narrative stew that I’m personally devouring.

One of the scenes I’ve liked most in season 3 was Callie telling Shauna that she just wants to be close to her. Then we immediately jump to Callie manipulating & lying & scheming. How else is she supposed to be close to Shauna? I think there was even a joke in this latest episode about how closing herself off & lying is Shauna’s love language.

Also….. we can’t talk about about Callie/Jackie parallels without talking about THIS can of worms:

Shauna’s reaction when Lottie puts the necklace on Callie is SO fucking telling. She RIPS it off. Also, I love that Lottie says that it never meant what they thought it meant. The thing about the necklace is that it doesn’t just have one meaning.

Jackie gave it to Shauna so nothing could hurt her. But ultimately, it became a symbol of Jackie herself & her tragic death. A way to honor her. That culminated in the person being hunted - the person who chose the queen card - wearing that necklace. So, for a hundred reasons, of course Shauna wouldn’t want her daughter wearing that relic.

Also, since we’re going there let’s go there.

It sort of irritates me when people are like “now Jackie x Shauna is canon!” because….. well it’s sort of the same with Ginger Snaps & Jennifer’s body & I’m sure a few other pieces of media to me where it’s like “learn to understand a narrative PLEASE.” Just because the script doesn’t say “& there was dykey gay lesbian love involved btw” doesn’t mean it’s not there. I understand we live in the era of Supernatural but Jackie & Shauna were never queerbait, the story was always clear to me, anyway.

That said - it’s now been explicitly & undeniably confirmed clearly & explicitly even to the people who need it directly spelled out that Shauna Shipman IS queer. She was already heavily implied to be in love with Jackie. At this point, if people don’t get it that’s on them. I really don’t need her to directly say “I was in queer homosexual love with Jackie too btw” & in fact a scene like that would break the vibe for me. Shauna having an intense complex dark toxic queer relationship following Jackie’s death just further cements how much we the audience who has been paying attention already knew this suburban mask is just that for her - a mask.

So, the fact that Shauna obsessively equates & hallucinates her daughter as the girl she was completely obsessed with whose loss she defines herself by & whose corpse she played hallucination dollhouse with for months & then devoured is FASCINATING to put it lightly. Jackie devoured Shauna before the wilderness, at least from Shaunas perspective. In the wilderness, Shauna literally devoured Jackie. Then Shauna gave birth to a girl she’ll always compare to Jackie. Poor Callie is so fucking tragic & alone, unable to find any true autonomy or love in this relationship, when that’s all she really wants. Shauna sees both herself & Jackie as well as the lost potential of the baby she lost in Callie. “I don’t even know where you end & I begin” INDEED.

[microknifeyuri]

We need communism in the OSC

I know this sounds controversial, but I think that a communist approach to the community would do good for it.

I want communism because shit like "jacknjellify LLC" and "adamations Inc." should NOT exist.

The OSC is a community of creators, artists, creative minds, not pseudo-corporate slop that queerbait, scam, take advantage of the gullibility of the viewers (mostly MINORS. KIDS.) and get away with ableism, racism, transphobia, ZIONISM (YES, ZIONISM.) because a horde of brainless manchildren will defend them because they want their consumer product. These motherfuckers are turning what used to be a community of free creators into a cesspool of useless competition in which the ones who capitalize win and take advantage of their "popularity".

Jacknjellify and Adamations make THOUSANDS of dollars through their mediocre, ableist, queerbaity, soulless corporate shitty ass shows and low-quality merch that, by the way, is manufactured by exploited children in factories with POOR LIFE CONDITIONS. And that's also how it relates to the real-life horrors of capitalism.

What do most of OSC creators get from their shows? NOTHING. NOTHING. While these ableist greedy zionist leeches capitalize and exploit children, both in a psychological and physical way although indirectly, honest creators get NOTHING.

And don't get me started on the meetups. The meetups, the most soulless, corporate, CLASSIST thing that came out of this "OSC elite". Screening episodes to only a selected, privileged part of the community, episodes that 95% of the OSC have been waiting for months - no, YEARS. And screening them in only one country, ignoring how most of the OSC either cannot afford to buy tickets for a screening or lives on the totally different side of the earth. This is CLASSISM, by definition. This is why I also thank the leakers who gave us the episodes we've been waiting for that are being kept from the masses in favor of a privileged elite.

These companies are turning into Disney, and I do not say this with a positive connotation. The OSC is made of people, not consumers, and it's time everyone learns it. In a matter of years they're going to come after you, small creators who make a heartfelt show to get nothing in return, and you, viewers who yet do not realize these companies are taking your money and taking advantage of your gullibility.

We DO need communism in the OSC because class war is everywhere, even where you least expect it, even in a small Internet community. We DO need communism in the OSC because our art is not a tool of capitalism and it should not be used as such.

My brother in Christ what the fuck are you talking about.