#and it's not so much that she's being....punished by the narrative for thinking/dealing with things in that way

[lisbonsteresa]

[raayllum]

What do you think is the narrative, thematic and symbolic relevance of Claudia's amputation and prosthesis?

There's a few, I think, both in how the actual amputation happened, and then how the show handles things with her actual prosthetic.

The amputation:

Claudia is drinking and using a spell that uses her own blood. In arc 2, she increasingly takes on more animalistic forms with her dark magic (snake spell, wings, the tentacles). This mirrors how she's increasingly cannibalizing herself and treating herself as spell parts, as well as themes of fragmentation ("How are we going to move it?" "In pieces" / "We're all that's left of our family, and I'm not going to let anything break us apart" / "Our family was shattered forever"). She may not realize that's what she's doing with herself - dark magic is an extension of herself and her power - but that is what she's doing, hence having a 'dark magic leg' cut off but with real lasting consequences.

There's also the element of Rayla and her brutality that comes into play. Rayla nearly lost a hand in trying to save Zym and usher in peace, which is why she got to - narratively and literally - keep it. Meanwhile Claudia is going down an increasingly dark path, so she loses it, just as her assault on Ibis led her to injure her leg with her dark magic flask. That's not to say becoming disabled is a narrative punishment, but it does showcase how she's putting herself in 1) increasingly dangerous situations for 2) increasingly dangerous people and 3) always by herself. This is contrasted by how the trio wins because they have each other VS Terry (+ Claudia's support system) being regulated to the shore.

Rayla in arc 2 is walking her usual razor's edge of on the one hand being increasingly open and empathetic / letting her compassion shine through - which is a good thing - while being hands down more violent than she was in arc 1. She left to hunt down Viren and recognized it'd gotten twisted into revenge, much like her first mission, and gave this one up without a dragon's egg to change her; she held Terry hostage (although whether she would've hurt him is unknown, but the threat was there!), abandons the drake when Soren doesn't, and cuts off Claudia's leg, etc. We even see this with her actually agreeing to kill Callum if he's possessed again (6x03). All this is, I think, there to create room for the possession plot line to take centre stage in S7 as her own 'dark path' as an assassin will be challenged and likely, finally, put entirely to rest. (Arc 2 opening with her failing to kill a high mage and it's a bad thing vs closing with her failing/refusing to kill a high mage and it's a good thing, probably?) And Claudia represents like the middle road of Viren and Callum in some ways, just as Callum is a middle road between Viren and Claudia -- but meta for another day maybe

On a plot level: it's much harder for Claudia to stop and keep up with Viren if she can't fully walk, and it represents how she's continually sacrificed herself and her body for her family's survival (which dark magic is deeply interested in the idea of "bodies as sites of trauma" but again, meta for another day maybe / adjacent metas in my 'dark magic' tag).

As for her prosthetic:

Claudia has always used magic as a crutch, specifically dark magic. She doesn't have to deal with the big scary feelings permanent consequences or 'brokenness' can bring if she can fix it with dark magic. She can "cure" Soren and bring her dad back from the dead, and she expresses confusion or mistrust when those experiences of being paralyzed or dead undoubtedly affect them and change them, especially when it changes in ways that take them away from her. Because if they're not okay, or not here, then she's not okay. Her using her corrupted Sunforge staff, which at this point just represents dark magic in her life tbh, as a literal crutch is what she's been doing emotionally for a while now, which is also why she takes it with her when she leaves Terry. (The fact that it, much like Claudia, is a corrupted light is just the symbolic cherry on top.)

This isn't too dissimilar in terms of framing of how Callum uses magic as a crutch to distract from / avoid his emotions in S4, and how he drops the staff in order to pick up Rayla's sword to embrace those feelings and embrace her. And why Claudia has a moment of likewise dropping her staff to embrace Terry as well; even if he isn't as critical of dark magic as he arguably could/should be, he is still one of Claudia's guiding lights and wants what's best for her.

The prosthetic, then, represents learning to lean on Terry rather than dark magic (which Terry saving her in 6x04 and her staving off dark magic use also reflects) again, quite literally in 6x03. The prosthetic is the literal creation and metaphorical embodiment of Terry's love and faith for her and his connection to nature/primal magic, all things she sorely needs in her life.

TLDR:

The fact that paths and "every step forward is a choice" and "Daddy look I'm following in your footstep" are continually emphasized, I think Claudia losing a leg made a lot of sense symbolically. I think her prosthetic is also very strong symbolically if very straightforward. S6 honestly gave a lot of signals that she's going to be redeemed and this was one of the biggest to me; I'd expect that prosthetic as a symbol of Terry's love for her will either maintain that hope, or help bring it home (making her remember him if they diverge paths or something) and that we'd only be in a big trouble if it got burned to a crisp tbh

[sir-adamus]

One thing I love about RWBY is how it manages to thread that needle of, "That's a person" & "They have a reason for being this fucked up" without forgetting or failing to convey, "Doesn't mean they aren't still being bastard!"

See Adam, Ironwood, Salem, Mercury, hell even Jac got some of that treatment, as much as his narrative role needed and more than someone like him would usually be given.

In that regard though, it does always leave me vexed and confounded that people act like the Brothers will be some big exception. As though their issue is just that they are a little confused and don't understand some things, but once its explained and or they go home, it'll all be chill.

Like, sorry but if the woman they tortured for potentially millions of years still gets the "She's still being a bastard" treatment I cannot envision why the Brothers genocide would avoid being framed or treated as such.

yeah it's kind of weird how people have a blindspot for the gods being petty, arrogant assholes in the backstory; like it's been a weirdly common trend to see people making posts claiming it's fine for the gods to be assholes because they're gods (and therefore shouldn't be held to any kind of moral standard whatsoever), or thinking that post-volume 9, now the goal of the show is RWBY reuniting the relics to summon the gods because "the world is united" and the gods will deal with Salem.

like, the terms of Salem's immortality are made very clear, and these jackasses aren't gonna rescind on their punishment of her (which i need to point out was immensely disproportionate even before the mass genocide. "you need to learn a lesson, so now you can't die until you do" is fucked up) just because everyone else is on the same side.

and on top of that, the gods returning only means hanging a Sword of Damocles over humanity's head, because if they don't stay united, then it's just gonna lead to another disproportionate tantrum and Remnant getting the full scorched earth treatment. not to mention the gods dealing with Salem would ultimately prove her right and be immensely unsatisfying narratively (it would literally be a deus ex machina)

RWBY borrows heavily from Final Fantasy and other JRPGs, and a major recurring element in those sorts of games is that defeating the present big bad in the narrative is never the end of the story, there's always a greater scope threat that's usually either your dad or god or both. coupled with how Light and Dark are heavily influenced by mythological gods and how those are often petty, short-sighted and abusive bastards who cause more problems than they solve, and we've recently been outright told that the Brothers have completely misunderstood what 'balance' is and how that's factored into their conflicts and decision making, and how that then filters down to their treatment of Salem, demanding she understand something they don't and expecting her to learn it through the punishment they inflicted on her only ended up causing more damage

Salem's defeat has to be factored into ending her curse, and the end of volume 9 makes heavy implication that it's RWBY, not the Brothers, who are going to achieve that. but even with Salem then out of the picture, the Brothers are still a threat, they still wiped out the population of an entire planet for childish reasons and routinely abandon their creations; someone else could go for the relics to try and summon them, so there's the potential damage they could do to Remnant again, and who knows what same horrors and punishments the Brothers are inflicting on the worlds they've gone on to make and abandon since?

[iamnmbr3]

Severus calling Lily a slur in a fit of rage and humiliation while being bullied - obviously very bad. James publicly sexually assaulting Severus - obviously much worse?!!! That was some serious sadism on display. Yet for some bizarro reason the narrative wants me to judge the words said in this scene more harshly than the deeds done, because at this point Lily - an author self-insert and the Holy Mother of this saga - cuts one off for their crime and falls in love with the other. I do not like that Lily’s romantic choice is treated as some sort of absolution, but it’s what JKR implied. Despite paralleling James’ actions with the Death Eaters ‘sick’ ’torture’ of the Muggles at the Quidditch World Cup! Idk, I was never satisfied with the lack of follow through on the implications of that scene, nor with the textual idea that Snape’s fixation on the Marauders is petty childishness, rather than a quite understandable trauma response.

Yeah. I have a huge issue with the way James is framed by the narrative. It's also weird because in-universe everything works fine. The problem comes when we look at the jarring disconnect between what was written and the way the audience is cued to react. James's characterization - and the characterization of the Marauders - is well done and consistent. They all act and react realistically given who they are. The problem comes when we look at how we the audience are supposed to react. Because we are supposed to see their actions as bad, but not THAT big of a deal. And uh...yikes.

The Snape's Worst Memory sequence is one of the most horrifying and sadistic moments in the series. I find it particularly visceral and upsetting because it feels real in a way that some of the more fantastical scenes just don't. It's so horrifying and personal in a way that Voldemort punishing his minions or a snake coming out of a lady just isn't. The way James and the others so obviously delight in tormenting and humiliating Snape is just horrific. And the fact that they do this out in the open and face little pushback and no consequences makes it even more awful.

Even worse, everything we see in the narrative suggests that what they did wasn't even that unusual for them. The behavior and dialogue we see from Snape and from the Marauders makes it very clear that doing this sort of thing to Snape is a regular pastime. The reason this is Snape's worst memory is because of the effect this particular incident ended up having on his relationship with Lily, not because of the horrible treatment he endured which was horrifyingly routine.

JK Rowling seems to like Snape. But at the same time I think she tends to have a view (common among TERFs btw) that discounts men as victims of assault. Because that's what this was. And I know if a woman had been stripped and exposed by a group of boys JKR would not have treated it as lightly. Yes she thinks what happened was bad, but not THAT bad. And listen I don't have a problem with the story depicting this and I think the way it is viewed subsequently by the Marauders, wizarding society and Snape all work in the story. My problem is with the framing and the way JKR has talked about James in interviews where it makes clear that she doesn't view this with the gravity it deserves.

James shows more of a natural inclination towards sadism and obvious enjoyment of cruelty and violence than young Tom Riddle does. And this is never dealt with. A lot of the real evil people of the world are more like James - people who aren't the way they are because of some dramatic backstory or because of trauma or whatever. They just aren't kind. James wasn't raised without love or forced to suffer privation in an orphanage or anything like that. He comes from a loving home with parents who spoil him rotten. He has a lot of privilege due to both his wealth and his blood status. And he is cruel and delights in tormenting someone weaker than him for sport. Not because Snape did something to him. Not because they quarreled and James went too far in retaliation. But rather because, as James himself puts it, he exists. Which is so typical of the bullies of the world.

I actually like the fact that Harry's father turns out to be this kind of person. It think it adds depth and complexity to the narrative. But I don't think JKR fully understood or intended what she wrote. She meant to show James as flawed, but not to the extent that she ended up doing I think. And I agree that has always bothered me too.

[mossy-green-aka-ferrythem]

Ok, so the Murder on WARP Express brings a lot of truly strong narrative points to the table I didn't expect. (I will spoil the entire Intervallo here.)

Also, there is something kind of horrifying about how the sinners have multiple ways to bypass the inter-dimensional horrors, while you see everyone else fall victim to an eternal kingdom...

Like. They are sponsored by WARP Corp, the reason why they can bypass the horrors is because WARP Corp sponsored them. There is a sort of uniquely fascinating thing about that. With how you can avoid the horror of eternity, the eons, if you are given the favor of W Corp.

Also, it's interesting seeing the fucking Dead Space type bullshit is happening to the passengers. Since you are sort of just passing through the WARP... something's sort of sad about how impartial you are to their plight. I mean. This is normal city dealings. This is how the city works.

Also. The way Bloodfiends interact with the WARP is fascinating. Here, instead of being held back, forced to sulk in the corners of the city, he is treated to an eternal banquet hall. The fact that the WARP Train isn't a punishment for someone like him, but much rather a pleasure, is fascinating...

Also of course we have the BIG SPOILER:

With how Don Quixote. Is a Bloodfiend.

(Not gonna lie this makes her even SEXIER to me like holy shit the fucking energy? The aura? That blood soaked darkness that enshrouds her? Something feels so erotic about it...)

Also, since their pass to the First Class broke, I knew for a fact that due to the Backdoor pretty much housing all these possibilities, like for example, a door to the outskirts. Of course they can bypass the horrors of the WARP, it only makes sense.

Also, it opens up a new interesting thing... with how when they're inside A Corp... they are greeted to nothing but a blinding sandstorm...

I think what may be the case is that the city has desolation right at the heart of it.

Also, Faust, my beloved, has a very interesting arc here!

We learn about how she's in a sort of strange communication with multiple Fausts, and without her ability to cross examine all Faust's perspectives and knowledge, she struggles immensely. Thus she is sort of forced to learn to sort of somewhat accept a sense of individuality, and uncertainty. Also her willingness to let others speak first here shows her sort of growing, socially speaking. Like. Realizing the reason why she has so much knowledge is because of others, and how the sinners have a lot of strong perspectives and strong points to give.

Really this Intervallo was far more narratively intriguing, and well written than I could have anticipated.

[sufferu]

Amnesia!Rem feels like the burden the past Rem put on Subaru was too great, but the theme of Arc 7 is absolutely not that "Subaru is not a hero and should stop trying", it's "Subaru being a hero for his own sake even though nobody thinks he can"

Subaru being a hero is not being presented as a good thing. He absolutely CAN be a hero if he wants to, but by doing so, he is spitting in the face of every single theme in the story. The version of Subaru that becomes that Perfect Hero is the same version that lies to all his friends, breaks promises gleefully, abuses Return By Death to the point of madness, projects his own will onto other people constantly, and all in all repeats nearly every single mistake he was punished for in previous arcs — all the while paralleling ALL FIVE of the major IF Routes in really alarming ways, foiling the main antagonist by becoming noticeably less and less human in his manner of internal monologue while she develops a greater and greater sense of personhood, foiling arguably the two most monstrous characters in the story so far (the Segmunts) to the point where the narrative goes out of its way to say that “if Subaru were here, he would call the ability Rowan just developed Learn By Death” and Cecilus ends his arc by going “SUBARU IS JUST LIKE ME FORREAL,” siding with fate both through his first and only direct alliance with Priscilla Barielle and his saving the day via his adherence to a prophecy given by the Stargazer Ubilk (even going as far as to say, “Fate-sama, you’re excellent!”), and being a literal regression to his ten-year-old self.

Also — Rem is the only one who was against the idea of Subaru being a hero. Just off the top of my head, Vincent was so sure that Subaru was a valuable ally that he basically did everything he could to make sure his wagon was strapped along for the ride. Todd thought he would be an absolute nightmare to deal with from almost the word Go. And they weren’t there for most of the arc, but the Emilia Camp was so convinced of Subaru’s capabilities that Emilia even stated that they weren’t even that concerned for his safety, but instead came to Vollachia so that he wouldn’t be alone. Hell — even with Rem, her post-amnesia self didn’t say that because she didn’t BELIEVE in Subaru, she said it because she thought Subaru was hurting himself by putting too much pressure on himself — an attitude she has carried into Arc 9 by refusing to put more of a burden on him because he’s carrying too much already. “Nobody thinks he can be a hero” just doesn’t fit.

[sokkastyles]

Ok um, I need to rant about Katara for a second. This might sound incoherent, but hopefully it makes sense. When it comes to Katara's interests in romance or aspects of her life that aren't directly related to Aang, Bryke don't really always do a good job at treating her like an actual person. Legend of Korra is the biggest example of this of course, because I really don't think there is any way that Katara, being as righteous and morally courageous as she is, would ever choose to make decisions about her life that prioritize Aang more than herself (yes I know she wanted to fall in love and have a big family, but she would never give up her ambitions to do so). But ATLA also has a few egregious examples of this, such as not allowing Katara to have any complex emotions without demonizing her for it (I will never get over Katara being compared to Jet in TSR). I really feel like season 3 really indicates the gap in maturity between Katara and Aang when it comes to how they make decisions. Aang avoids facing his issues because he's scared, which makes sense as a character trait. But, the narrative never really addresses this as a detriment or a flaw that could have major consequences all the time. Katara on the other hand, by her own admission, "will never turn her back on people who need her" and is much more willing to reflect on her own emotions and internal conflicts. As shown in TSR, she's also not very likely to agree with Aang all the time, especially when matters are emotionally complicated. I wish the narrative had actually explored the implications of what this would mean for Katara and Aang's relationship, because they clearly probably wouldn't be able to deal with heavier, more complicated emotional problems together. This isn't a bad thing, it just means the characters probably shouldn't be a romantic pairing. But in order for the narrative to acknowledge this, Bryke would have to actually treat Katara like a person and not a wish fulfillment fantasy who has to end up with Aang no matter what and is bad for being interested in other guys. Even Zuko isn't treated this badly by Bryke for having briefly dated Jin and then dating Mai, and I don't think Bryke like him that much either. What do you think?

The joke about Mai getting angry at Zuko for briefly dating Jin is "girls are irrational bitches lol"

The joke about Katara maybe kinda sorta being attracted to Jet is "girls are irrational bitches lol"

Both come from the same misogynistic place. With a side of "Zuko has to put up with it as punishment for being the bad guy once" while Aang gets rewarded by getting Katara's affection for being the hero all along.

[harukapologist]

Yesterday I was having lots of 09 thoughts & mainly talked about him, so today I'll talk about why I think Haruka will not die before T3.

First off, what is the point of leaving such an engaging mystery unsolved?

If you think about it, Haruka's death would add two things in the story: drama factor to test the fans' feelings, and a chance to learn more about the extraction system. For the drama/emotional factor, it would be more useful if he stayed alive in critical condition; the fans' feelings will change and that will affect how these fans vote for Haruka and the other prisoners. In the scenario that he dies, the other prisoners' character developments will get somewhat of a push but Haruka's case will remain unsolved forever; if he stayed alive, I think that would help him and everyone develop further. e.g we would see more tension with Muu as she seems to be spending less time with him, we would see how Haruka struggles to cope with his verdict, how he interacts with the other prisoners etc it is much more compelling that way in my opinion

There is a possibility the extraction system could work on a dead body but 1. there would be no VD and VDs are important because they force the prisoner to think about and focus on their crime before extraction, 2. I don't see it being worth killing off a character, there are other more effective ways to get a reaction out of the audience and keep all of the prisoners' fates tied. And if it doesn't work, then wasn't Haruka's death pointless? It is just such a fruitless way to seal his case. Him being dead has only one outcome, which is...well, being dead. But surviving his attempt may have many outcomes: he might not attempt at all and remain unscathed, he might get in critical condition, he might be punished for attempting to escape milgram's boundaries by dying; who knows?

Not only narrative-wise is Haruka important, but also Haruka is a fan favorite, at least in JP fandom. He is well-loved, a lot of fans are intrigued by his case and killing him off without even getting close to solving his deal—which I see as one of if not the most ambiguous in the prison for many reasons—will leave a lot of fans disappointed and some may quit milgram, so the sales and audience etc will drop.

You have to keep in mind that Jackalope is biased, loves messing with us and sometimes says or implies things that are not true (e.g implying Haruka and Muu's dynamic to be romantic "lovey-dovey" when they are just friends) so you should not take anything he says—much like most of the info we are presented in milgram generally—at surface level.

Something else to be considered but which I wouldn't rely on as heavily, is that minigrams have foreshadowed things before (e.g system Amane), and Haruka has been really in the spotlight in nearly every recent minigram. I take this as a sign that he might not only survive but also play an important role in T3.

[kozachenko]

One very last thing: I definitely feel part of the moral greyness of this series is ZUN's writing style. On the one hand, he believes that it's easier to write selfish jerks than selfess people, because they don't need a reason to fight each other, and need to have a particular reason to help others. Yet, I also get the impression from all his comments that he admires all his creations in some way. He's never really "insulted" them in any way in the interviews I've seen. He's never stated that the world of Touhou would be better if a character was dead or didn't exist.

Honestly, that's something I really love about the series and it's writing. It's very rare to find someone who is 100% selfless in real life, and while yes fiction is fiction and shouldn't be tied to reality, I do think it's nice seeing some characters who are just unapologetic selfish assholes, because what's more fun? A nice goody two-shoes who's perfect in every single way and doesn't have a selfish bone in their body? Or an asshole who's selfish and highly flawed, but they are so unapologetically themself that it just loops back around to them being fun? It's something that really differentiates Touhou from most media where the series is willing to take risks with a character's personality even if they may come off as incredibly unlikeable. In Touhou, the likeablity of a character is second, and establishing who they are as a person takes precedent. The characters aren't made to please you, they're there for themselves and themselves alone, and there's something really fun about that (at least that's how I interpret a lot of the characters in this series).

With the second thing you brought up about how ZUN sees his characters, I appreciate how even though many Touhou characters aren't morally perfect, they aren't demeaned or seen as lesser than in the eyes of the narrative. Sure other characters may not like them at all, but the narrative itself isn't going to eternally punish them for just existing. Now that I think about it, there's never really been an interaction in Touhou where a character will outright bully and put down another one. Sure we've seen the characters harshly criticize each other, but they still don't really feel like bullying and the narrative doesn't make it a big deal. Most of the time it isn't even one sided and both parties have something snarky to say about the other one. The only character who ever really got close to bullying was Keiki oddly enough, that being her roasting the animal spirits in her pre-fight dialogue (still love that part by the way, it just gives her so much personality and I think that's one of the reasons that she stuck out to me in the first place). I definitely think that ZUN's level of respect for all of his characters comes through in the writing via the character interactions and relationships.

[nobodyfamousposts]

Do you think that a lot of the bad moments that people salt Marinette for are more due the "Marinette must commit a mistake and learn a lesson" Episode Writing Rule than things that she would actually do?

Partly. To be fair, part of it does seem to be based around the cringe moments that the writers threw in because they thought that somehow a teenage girl being embarrassed is what amounts to "humor". These humiliating moments that nobody BUT Marinette seems to experience and have played for laughs. Certainly not to the extent she does.

Not helped is that not only does no one else have to suffer such moments, but when others actively inflict this embarrassment onto her, they're never called out or really even acknowledged for their part. And when any of them experience similar treatment, it's narratively portrayed as sad and something to sympathize with them for.

Chloe pulled a lot of horrible stunts, and the fact that she's not even given so much as a slap on the wrist only further pushes this horrible narrative that it's supposed to funny and no big deal when Chloe does bad things and when Marinette suffers. And especially when Adrien or really anyone else does just as bad if not worse only to have any lesson be actively avoided.

So I think a major aspect of the salt towards Marinette is the narrative around her and how her suffering is portrayed as a joke and as if it's somehow deserved or warranted.

The very first episode had it end on a humor note of her losing out on a modeling chance with Adrien and the ending acting like she deserved it somehow. Let's bear in mind it was Alya pushing her to join and Marinette herself hadn't done anything to really deserve losing out the way the episode did compared with if she'd been actively ignoring Manon or acting like a jerk. As a result, I don't know what the lesson was supposed to be there other than that Marinette can't have nice things.

Reflektdoll was a major episode that showed this issue. ALYA was the one who pushed Juleka out to force Adrien and Marinette together. Even though Marinette told her she didn't want Adrien there in the first place. And yet even though ALYA was the one who caused the situation and MARINETTE was the one who at least TRIED to help Juleka and hear her out, Marinette ended up the one getting the full blame for Juleka being upset and the ONLY ONE who apologized by the end for apparently not doing enough to help Juleka despite her actively having attempted to and being cut off by Alya each time. She also ended up the ONLY ONE who WASN'T in the picture with Adrien. ALYA was in the picture, despite being the one directly responsible and the one who wanted Adrien and Marinette to have pictures taken of them together. All of this together gives the impression the narrative is punishing Marinette and that Marinette is somehow supposed to be the one in the wrong in the situation. Meanwhile, Alya and her actions and her part in the whole mess are simply forgotten.

There are at least four separate instances I can think of off the top of my head of Adrien throwing tantrums in the middle of akuma fights and even going so far as threatening to quit, refusing to work with Ladybug to stop the akuma, and even actually quitting. And each time, either HE was portrayed as the wholly innocent party and/or SHE was portrayed as being in the wrong and needing to apologize to him for...(checks notes) not giving him what he wants: whether that be a date, her identity, Fu's secrets, or not being dependent on him.

Then there's Chloe and Lila. Do I really need to get into them at this point?

And remember the comic and how Marinette ended up naked in New York thanks to a stunt Chloe pulled and instead of ANY punishment for Chloe for theft and leaving Marinette without any clothes, it's used to teach Marinette a lesson about racism? No, I will NOT let that go. Even if they did an "official New York episode" to try and replace it, it showed the depths that the writers would put Marinette through and how they would go out of their way to make it be more of a point to make HER wrong somehow even if they had to make it up and disregard the implications and the person responsible.

It all comes down to this common tendency Miraculous has to make light of the things Marinette goes through and having the treatment of her be their go-to joke.

[supremechancellorrex]

One of the major disappointments I had with the Avatar live-action was the storyline and characterisation of Azula. Not only does the show take vital minutes that could have been spent on Katara, but Live-Action!Azula fails to feel very strong and threatening presence wise. There's a lack of mystique, mystery and reveal with her. The live-action has laid her bare a little too early for comfort in my opinion. Narratively, I think we know her *too well* now. It doesn't help she lays her feelings on her face pretty bare to see.

Where she seemed more promising in Episode 3 with her cool dispatching of rebels and plotting with Zhao, I honestly didn't really enjoy her scenes after. Also, I know this is a tall order, but I found Azula's martial arts not as strong as Zuko's actor, which is jarring for her plotline. I found her lightning reveal a little lacklustre. She's just like, wham, lightning.

Azula's Conflict

Part of Azula's original characterisation in the cartoon was she was able to keep her feelings close to her chest like a cold flame, it was smarter that way. The entire point of her characterisation is she appears the perfect royal vessel blessed with all the gifts, but she actually was hurt and mentality unstable and masking this trauma. Yet, in the live-action Azula ragefully beats and loses control in a training session fight against a servant to the point Ty Lee and Mai, her friends/underlings of a lower social station, dare to protest and physically pull her off in full view of everyone. Meanwhile, Ozai reads her like an open book for most of the season. She feels like more of an underdog, like a vicious little poodle monkey kicked every time Ozai praises Zuko, and being so obvious with her feelings in front of Mai and Ty Lee, and an entire courtyard of subjects and everyone. Apparently, Royal Family members are so much so obvious, a lowly person like Zhao thousands of miles away somehow even knows Ozai is testing her. What did she put in those silly letters? It feels like Live-Action!Azula is cottoning on a little too late on how to really play the game for someone so smart, and that would just be unacceptable in such a traditional, Imperial Confuscianist-like environment.

What Azula deals with in Season 1 of the Avatar: Live Action is a conflict Azula would have more likely had at age 10, realising a textbook answer isn't enough. By having her have this at 14, it does make her feel more slow and less of a prodigy with a strategic mind. The writers decided to do the Season 1 timeline and have something for Azula to do at the same time, but the conflict they chose for her does change her characterisation in ways so far I'm not fond of or at least confident is for the better.

Aluza, A Meaner Zuko

My problem with Azula isn't that she's "sympathetic", more she just doesn't feel like herself. She had a different way of dealing with things in the original show; she'd learned from a young age to be more generally closed off and in an imperial, authoritarian environment. In this environment, where composure is everything and every movement needs to affirm the Mandate of Heaven that is your existence and your divine right, Azula learned to restrain her self-expression where in contrast Zuko had difficulty and was punished for it. As someone who knows people in real life who are very difficult to read. Live-Action!Azula was far too obvious and readable for the characters around her at this stage, especially given the upbringing she would have had. In most of the cartoon, she does have a tighter hold on her feelings and that is more realistic due to the position she has in the culture she was born into. Although we see sparks of insecurity in the cartoon, which hint towards the original Azula's inner issues and trauma, generally she is very composed and tactical.

Trauma can often manifest in unique ways depending on the individual. People with trauma can actually be very hard to read. Similar to how an injured cat will instinctively give no sign of pain to not show a predator any sign of weakness. Zuko lashed out with his trauma, but Azula reacted in a different way in the cartoon. That was part of her characterisation. And, I'm not talking about how Azula is becoming worse and Zuko better, I'm talking about how they react to Ozai and things not going their way. In the live-action, now both just lash out, complain, get angry and have to have someone intercede. Azula is more vicious, but the reactions are more similar now than they were, and I personally feel it takes away from what were key differences between how the characters would react to problems growing up. She was a different person. Now I don't think the cartoon got it all right, I think they were clumsy with Azula's character arc at points in Book 3 especially in my opinion, but she just had more of a presence and there was a certain nuance and dynamic to her troubled and calculating personality that I feel is lacking in the live-action.

Live-Action!Azula also didn't feel very "Royal" to me in the live-action, feeling less like a girl who believes in her divine right to rule and more just a mean girl in high school. There's something often intrinsically cold and distant about people in Royal Families, their environment, the "Never Got Enough Hugs" syndrome and its mentality, even for the ones that act out. The type of people that make children march miles behind their mother's coffin in full view of thousands of faces for saving face, tradition, and duty. I'm not sure they nailed it. This Live-Action!Azula lacks a certain spark so far, and what I know of Royal Families, from the UK and Japan to the former Royal Families of China and Korea, I'm not convinced of her characterisation here as a character with a background as a princess.

Villain Crafting

Azula felt intimidating because Ozai had twisted her into what on the surface to others and even herself was a "monster". Perhaps the cartoon's mistake was not delving deeper into this characterisation more and instead focusing just on the badass spinning kick blue flames moments and smirks a bit too long, as some people didn't get Azula had a sympathetic and tragic side, but I feel the live-action's mistake is adding in details not true to Azula's character and peeling back the mystery of this character too early, because now it feels like the viewers know they know a lot, right off the bat, and storytelling wise in Season 1 it just made this Azula come across as less interesting or even authentic to me. It won't be surprising to anyone this Live-Action!Azula has a mental breakdown now, it will be predictable and more like her usual tantrums instead of a shock that shows a deeper truth.

[o-uncle-newt]

Random Sayers thought-

I've seen people say that Gaudy Night is when Harriet becomes a co-detective with Wimsey, or even solo detective of her own mystery. I was always surprised by this, and the more I think about it the more I think that's not true. She's a co-detective with Wimsey in Have His Carcase, because she has to* and finds it interesting and (secretly, I think) wants to show Peter what she's made of and collaborate with him on equal terms- and just hang around him in general, just like he wants to hang around her.

*By "she has to," I mean that she needs to be in control of her fate. She's tied up in this case and can't stand by and let other people solve it and suspect her again (and can't let Peter seem to be just being the gallant knight-errant again, either, she's had enough of that). I've read stuff on Harriet and PTSD before but the world can always use more, hint hint...

But in Gaudy Night, not only does she not solve the mystery, she doesn't realize what Peter has until the very end. What she is able to do is be detail oriented, put together the dossier, place it in an order that Peter is able to follow and allow him to solve it. She's a writer; that's what she does. And she's a writer who doesn't want to become subsumed in Peter, who doesn't want him, or being with him, to define her. She doesn't need to solve the case- her association with him shouldn't have to be about solving cases. She just needs to write the book that's in her to write.

In the punt, she and Peter realize that she is almost blinded from being able to solve the case because of her own jaundiced view of the situation, her own personal struggles, and the narrative that she is internally composing. As a writer, her job isn't to interpret situations- it's to create them. She's not meant to be following someone else's clues and plainly observing facts, she's meant to be creating her own narrative. If she could put everything to the side to solve the case, she would be putting to the side the things that make her HER. Peter can solve it because a) that's HIS thing/way of dealing with things and b) he knows she wants it to be solved.

(Incidentally, he also knows that he might be "sawing off [his] own branch" in doing so, but that's fine, because the thing that they both have in common, that unites them despite their different functions in the world and different skill sets, is a dedication to truth.)

By Busman's Honeymoon, the pretense that Harriet is a co-detective is basically gone. She's there to shed her own light on the situation as a novelist and an observer of character, but Peter is the detective. And that's important because the books is so much about what happens when the two of them actually take a stab at the thing they've decided may actually work by the end of Gaudy Night- having Harriet join Peter without being subsumed in him. Having him be able to continue his life's work with her support and despite her growing realization of what it entails, and having him realize that the unique angles that she gives him are complementary but different to what he himself has.

It's also important because it's clear that they're with each other for who they are as people and not what they each do. In Gaudy Night, Peter says that he thinks Harriet hasn't written the book that she could if she tried- not that her current books aren't good but that she's better than them. In Busman's Honeymoon, Harriet fully realizes that Peter's work makes him suspect sympathetic people and ultimately leads to capital punishment (she obviously knew this, but as she notes, it's different when the same delicate hands that... you know... are also the ones that do THAT...). And for each of them, they're able to say "this is who you are and what you do and I believe in your right to, and ability to, do it- and hope that you will accept me as a part of your life as you do so."

[astridthevalkyrie]

so idk how mha is gonna end but obviously the moral of the story we’re going for here is that everyone deserves to be saved and heroism is about saving people no matter what. that’s great! i’m guessing some or all of the league is going to survive and be put into some kind of rehabilitation center (toga and spinner seem the most likely to me for now but who knows). and i’m fine with that i like the overall message of it.

but how are they going to deal with the fallout from the league’s victims? i get the feeling that they’re not, or it’ll be a one-off like “some ppl were upset we didn’t jail or kill the villains but the heroes calmed them down” or something like that. i mean. whoever in the LOV it is would have to show remorse eventually, for one thing, for them to be any different than the corrupt hero system. but even then, all the families of whoever machia trampled on during the war arc, are they just gonna be cool with this? mind you I don’t think that anyone in the LOV should be killed or jailed rather than rehabilitated, but i wonder if the show is going to bring up that anyone who dabi or toga killed won’t get a second chance. they won’t get rehabilitated, they’re just gone. how are their families and friends going to deal with what society deems as an appropriate punishment for them?

i think this message also could’ve been conveyed better if we had more prominent “corrupt” heroes aside from endeavor and hawks. the top ten minus them and the irrelevant guy who retired after the war arc are all portrayed narratively as good people. iida’s brother is attacked by stain for no real reason at all aside from not being all might. all might’s heroism ends up being bad for society overall yeah, but so much of that is because of who toshinori is as a person rather than hero society (which does play a part but if toshinori just hadn’t pushed himself to be the best and number one savior for everyone there wasn’t necessarily any society forcing him to until after he’d already showed them he could do it).

PLUS the existence of afo offsets this message. everyone can be saved…..besides the real super evil people?? if, and I’m not saying they do, shigaraki and afo had the same kill count, is the lack of a sad childhood the only thing that makes afo beyond redemption? i mean he might not be gone gone if he’s still inside shigaraki’s mind or whatever, but that doesn’t change the fact that the heroes were trying to kill him too. narratively, why was all might in the right for killing him all those years ago when hawks was in the wrong for killing twice? because twice was kinder? because twice was neurodivergent??

mha also a little bit contradicts itself because. hero society is exposed post war arc. civilians have every right to be mad that their current number one is an abuser and that the heroes failed and couldn’t protect them. but theeeen, we have ochako’s speech in which she yells at scared civilians that “the heroes are the ones who are getting dirty!” which is like. yeah. they are. but during and post the war arc civilians also very much died. i feel for izuku but at first glance if someone promised you a safe haven from being attacked and then said oh never mind we’re actually going to bring the one guy shigaraki can absolutely track and hunt down here because he’s tired of fighting, getting upset with that is not totally unreasonable.

and I get that civilians are supposed to get mad at heroes for being corrupt, but not for failing, because heroes should never have been put up on such a high pedestal. they should be seen as humans who are as fallible as everyone else. that doesn’t change the fact the average innocent person would be rightfully scared, because it’s not just the heroes who are getting dirty. people are getting attacked. the heroes are not saving everyone. they shouldn’t have to and there’s no way they realistically can, but picking and choosing which aspects of hero society people are allowed to criticize feels…meh. if there’s gonna be fallout, fallout that endeavor and hawks if not the rest deserve, there should be proper fallout.

i don’t think the UA kids should be treated as full-fledged heroes because they’re not, but their age should not be the one thing that makes them better than the current heroes. they’re liable to the same mistakes and the same fallings. or they would be had they not all been portrayed from the beginning as one big happy hopeful crowd who just wanna save the day! there was opportunity to show who was in it for the right and wrong reasons and somehow ochako who has been so poorly written for several seasons actually had the most relevant arc (besides bakugo) about being in the hero business for the right reasons. ochako should have interned with hawks ochako should have interned with hawks ochako should have interned with there should’ve been more students in it for the glory, for the money, for the fame, but even monoma from class b and mineta are apparently true heroes! is being a high schooler all it takes??

anyway this is all jumbled and a mess but mha should’ve made hero society far more corrupt to justify its dismantling is my point. right now we’re getting a vibe of “the heroes are just as bad as the villains if they don’t save them too” and that’s just like. objectively not true. if hawks was supposed to be an assassin for hire for the hero commission, we should’ve seen him kill people aside from the guy who could’ve turned the tides of the war, at the very least actually kill best jeanist to finish his mission. if toga wanted to preach about how the heroes are just as bad because they killed jin, it falls flat when she’s on machia’s back stomping on people and then killing an old lady to talk to ochako. the heroes should try to save everyone including the villains because that’s what heroism is, but they are not equally as bad as the villains for trying to stop the villains.

the hero commission in general is just like afo, a vague villain we can blame so that we don’t have to blame the underlings. if people discriminate against animal quirks we should’ve seen it way earlier with shoji and tsu and tokoyami, maybe really expanded on it once mirko and hawks and even the dog cop were introduced. if sooo many heroes were in this for the wrong reasons, where are they? the current “failings” of the hero system are all might, endeavor, hawks, lady nagant and bakugo. everyone else is fine! there was a chance to show that someone like mount lady isn’t a real hero because she only cares about fame. there was a chance to show that aizawa is a good hero compared to others because he doesn’t try and seek glory. but these points are only halfway done and then kinda left there.

[bestworstcase]

With your read on the character, what would it take for Salem to believe someone loves her? What would they need to do? Say? Prove? Would they have to prove anything? Genuinely interested in how you see that playing out

it’s complicated because i think her reasons for feeling unlovable are pretty complex—in contrast to cinder, whose fundamental problem is just that she’s never been treated well and consequently just can’t conceive of the possibility at all, salem Has experienced genuine unconditional love (from her daughters, from ozma in the beginning) so she has, at least, an idea of what that’s Like…

the problem is that a) ozma ripped the rug out from under her, b) she’s never stopped raking herself over the coals for what happened to the girls, and c) salem has also spent her whole life being someone else’s justification for killing people—her father executing people who were kind to her, then later murdering her would-be rescuers; the gods butchering the planet; ozma’s centuries-long crusade to get rid of her.

it’s overt in the text that salem blames herself for the divine massacre, she wouldn’t have been circumspect about the rebellion out of fear that ozma would reject her if she didn’t feel guilty and ashamed, and likewise her behavior in 6.4 suggests that salem considers her temper to be something dangerous that she needs to control, and the shot composition connects this to the moments before the duel with ozma, again implying that salem feels she is at fault for the deaths of her children. i will not be remotely surprised if in future volumes it turns out salem also believes that the blood her father spilled to punish or “protect” her is on her hands.

the point being that i don’t think there’s anyone on the planet who HATES SALEM as much as salem hates herself, and the locus of this self-loathing is guilt. we see this manifest in her treatment of cinder too—salem reacts to her own realization of how much she cares about cinder by being mean to cinder because, i think, deep down she sees herself as a danger to anyone who gets too close.

so i think for salem to accept that someone does or even could love her is less a question of what they’d need to do to prove it—she can tell when people lie, after all—than surmounting her immediate knee-jerk reaction, if she cares about them even a little, to make them stop. like, gestures at midnight, salem can bring herself to say things like “you deserve so much more than i’ve given you” to cinder only after . literally torturing her.

her belief that she’s unlovable arises from a deep conviction that she not only doesn’t deserve to be loved but is actively dangerous to love; so i think she could believe that the feeling is real, or at least that the other person thinks it’s real, fairly easily, but she’d see it as self-destructive and try anything she could think of to push it away or retreat from it if it refused to budge. & the key to getting through that is just patience and understanding, and also probably dealing with the very real existential threats reinforcing this feeling because it’s, frankly, not irrational for salem to feel this way as the lone survivor of a genocide that was explicitly committed by the gods to make her suffer. anyone she cares for and anyone who cares about her really is in danger of divine retribution, and that situation needs to end before salem can even begin to actually heal. so narratively it happens in tandem with the shift from fighting salem to confronting the god of light with salem.

[nellie-elizabeth]

The Legend of Vox Machina: Hell to Pay (3x04)

Another great episode, turns out!

Cons:

This is going to be a bit difficult to articulate but it almost felt like we were missing a narrative beat somewhere before Pike and Zerxus began their card game. We know that there's a vestige, we know that the vestige is supposed to be instrumental in defeating Thordak, we know the stakes are high to get it... but it's also just a mostly abstract tool at this point. The others have powerful vestiges, is one more vestige worth the eternal damnation of not only Pike but also all her friends? I think I was missing a beat where the group seriously contemplates turning around and leaving, and then there's one more nudge as to why this is worth the astronomical price of failure. I also felt like it was a little silly that J'Mon apparently sent them down to Hell with absolutely no context or warning other than "this one dude has the armor, go get it." Wouldn't they have gone in a bit more prepared to have to offer something in return?

So there's this interesting tidbit with Zerxus (who I loved and will praise in a moment) where he says "we are his blood," and it seems like he's maybe working for the Whispered One? That would be a cool little tease for potential future seasons, but I feel like viewers who aren't really dedicated and deal-oriented might be confused by that, so I felt like a more concrete reminder might have been warranted.

Pros:

Despite that little wobble in the stakes-setting, I overall really enjoyed this episode. Great for us to get some Pike-centric story going, here!

The setting of Hell was so cool and creative, I felt like every moment gave me a fresh opportunity to enjoy a gruesome sight or creative character design. Scanlan's disguises for the group were also a lot of fun, I especially loved seeing Pike all furry and snugly.

This was a strong episode for Keyleth comedy, I loved her trying to lean in to being a disgusting Hell beast and eating the worm, and Vax's reaction of horror. Plus just her trying to do a scary Hell voice instead of her usual more timid register.

Pike's struggle to figure out the right thing to do is really interesting here, with the Everlight trying to warn her but also wanting her to choose her own path. I appreciate the way her relationship with her goddess functions in this show; it feels like a lot of what the Everlight is doing is empowering Pike to make her own fate, rather than doing more direct divine intervention, which is great for keeping the stakes balanced. Also, whenever we see that light flickering out in her little pendant, we know it means Pike is going to be without the backup/security of her goddess's presence. We've seen how bad that's shaken her in the past, so it was extra cool to see her buckle down and be a bad-ass even when she had those doubts planted in her head.

Let's talk about Zerxus!! So hot! Luis is here! I loved loved loved seeing him. What a cool added element for those of us who have seen Calamity, but also I feel like narrative-wise it's a perfectly reasonable swap-out for how the story went in the original. It felt like having secret forbidden knowledge when he was like "my friends ruined everything with their hubris, and then Asmodeus tricked me." Like, sir. Sir. Are you mayhaps editing the truth just slightly? But I also thought it worked on its own terms. I noticed that the backstory was slightly different as to his husband, but thought that was interesting too, feeding into this idea of his punishment being about being forgotten.

I loved Pike's moment of triumph specifically - the way it tied into Zerxus's story, and Pike's understanding of what it means to have ugly, uncomfortable, and selfish thoughts. Pike has admitted that she wonders if her life would be better without the Everlight, and now she gets Zerxus to realize that his loneliness overrides his desire to keep his family safe.

We didn't have much of a check-in with the Draconia crew, but we did see them briefly, on the cusp of finding out if Kima is okay. I'm excited to check in more with that story when I get around to watching the next episode!

That's all for now! Still loving this show, still hitting on all cylinders. It's interesting to watch the show when I feel really unsure of how things are going to shake out! Things are so different from what I've seen before.

8/10

[the-way-astray]

Heyyy any chance you could make a post explaining why you don't like dex? :33

sure! @unaside i believe you also wanted to know

it's actually very similar to the reasons i dislike keefe. when he's jealous of fitz, he tends to humiliate sophie over it, he's whiny, in general i despise characters/people in real life that immediately start off a friendship with an expectation of romance tied to it at some point, i despise the sodex kiss scene and prefer to pretend it didn't happen (though that was mostly sophie's fault), and just like keefe he acts ridiculously possessive over sophie. he's incredibly immature for his age, just like keefe (gagging at fitz, volunteering sophie to be in a very intimate position with him without her permission, tearing down sophie and fitz's relationship, etc.) and i find that he just in general has no personality besides being vaguely bitchy sometimes, and that gets resolved by the fourth book. basically, he's someone i would steer very clear of in real life. i dislike his character immensely and found him unbearable to deal with as i read the story.

however. having said all of that. as i said in this post, i can't argue that dex is a poorly written character as i could with keefe, because the difference here is that the narrative makes all of the above out to be flaws and punishes dex for them or develops him accordingly. the jealousy towards fitz and subsequent sophitz bashing? villainized throughout the series and eventually resolved. his crush on sophie which results in him treating her poorly and expecting her to cater to it? developed out of when sophie rejects him and therefore proves his beliefs about her wrong (and you notice he gets way more chill about her relationship to fitz later on). the immature behavior slowly grinds to a halt and by legacy era it's basically gone. so i can't argue that his flaws aren't developed from or villainized, just because i found them annoying (which is what you're supposed to feel). his entire arc is about learning to become less jealous of fitz and to get over his crush on sophie/stop treating her badly because of it.

the only thing is that this arc is resolved in like nightfall era, meaning that for the latter half of the series, he's not in it as much, leading to movements such as the dexvolution or the begging to make dex more relevant again. which i don't agree with, i think the fact that his arc has basically ended means he would eat up a lot of time that could go to something better if he was in the story more (which i think i touched on in the post linked above). but again, i say that as someone who is biased when it comes to him; as i've already said, i don't really like him.

this is very much a case of "i dislike a fictional person" more so than it is a case of "i dislike a character". and i think it's really important to make the difference clear. do i like dex? no. but i do think he's a well-written character. it's just that his flaws and general personality and arc don't gel with me (i hate the "guy learns not to be a incel" arc on principle, it's tiring for me, but that's entirely personal preference), but shannon did write it well, for what it's worth.

now if only she could do the same with keefe (which for me, is a case of "i hate a character" not a case of "i hate a fictional person").

tldr: dex is a trope i really don't like, however shannon executed that trope well, making it so that i can't argue that he's a poorly written character, but i still hate him as a person.