#and it was worse as a Talia fan

[damian-lil-babybat]

It arrived!!!!!!

I am now the proud owner of THIS COMIC waaaaaa.

Seriously, only good writing and good art can make me do fanart again for Damian. So I am happy comics nowadays are fun now.

Haven't bought any new comics since 2018...for obvious reasons. Let's just say, I don't want to give my money to DC editorials, until now. XD Dami-fans will know why. (Rant at the tags)

[kittykatninja321]

sympathizing with fanon fans today. Like you know what maybe dc does stand for “disregard canon”

[frownyalfred]

Hi!!!! What do you think about the fandoms characterisation of Dicks and Damian’s relationship???

A lot of the fans replace Dick with Bruce in terms of who is Damian’s father. Idek but it gets annoying when it’s all “oh Bruce may be Damian’s father, but dick is his dad”

Thanks <3

I go back and forth on it, tbh. Damian needed a dad, but he was a surprise to Bruce. Dick handled it much better than Bruce did for a while, but Bruce eventually came around (depending on the canon). A lot of siblings raise their younger family members in the absence of a parent, so it makes sense that Damian would be drawn to Dick as a more grounded and sympathetic parental figure. And that Dick would be able to connect with Damian more easily than Bruce, who was still reeling from the shock of finding out Talia lied.

But does that make Dick his dad? I don’t know. It’s kind of like saying older Bruce raising Dick as his ward was his dad. Yes, on paper there’s a parental relationship but — the ages are so off. Bruce was young and Dick wasn’t that much younger than him.

Their relationship was more like an older brother raising a younger one, and that shows a lot in the dynamics between them later in life. Not saying he can’t be a full dad to Dick or that he doesn’t take that role on but — their relationship isn’t as clear cut either.

So yeah, it makes sense to me that Dick could model that same relationship with Damian. Not quite dad, not quite older brother. Still Batman, to Damian’s Robin, just like Bruce was Batman to him.

I guess when it comes to writing it, it depends on how much you want to make 1) Bruce the bad guy for being a bad/absent parent and 2) Dick the sacrificing parent who stepped up while Bruce was gone.

I tried to show in my fic borderline that that relationship isn’t sustainable long term - Dick trying to mollify Damian and Bruce standing to the side awkwardly does everyone a disservice. Dick is not a martyr. He’s a sibling trying his best. But also, sometimes that actually makes things worse, you know? Having a sibling raise the younger kids. It throws off the dynamics in so many families if you’re not careful. If that sibling doesn’t have resources and support, they’ll burn out.

[sobbingscripter]

Tags: [mlw][crack][fluff][reader is an asshole][this is their karma for some shit they did in the past]

Includes: Damian Wayne; Bruce Wayne; Dick Grayson

A/n: a lil' drabble to broaden my horizons and see if I should stick to smut :3

"Okay, listen here, Sulu, I don't take orders from you. I take orders from your mother. So if she says I need to keep you safe, best believe, I'm doing my job to the best of my ability."

You're off-putting on your best day.

Alfred and Jason love to call you Damian's karma for him being a massive dick, and Bruce likes to call you.... Well... When Damian's not on his best behaviour.

"Listen, Cobra Kai, you better get your shit straight and listen to Batman." You stare at Damian, your eyes narrowing at him with distaste, upper lip curling in disdain before you look up at Bruce, your expression warm and your eyes fucking sparkle like a supernova.

"Huge fan." You reassure Bruce before looking back at Damian, finding those emerald eyes simmering with barely contained rage and he just about has it when you take two fingers, pointing them at your eyes and then, pointing them at his.

And almost as if to drive in your point (which you definitely do not have), you take a hefty bite of the nearest edible thing to you as you stand in the centre of the kitchen.

The nearest thing being an onion. Freshly peeled.

Your teeth sink into the flesh of the vegetable, and your throat burns but you don't waver, simply retreating back to your assigned bedroom and Jason lets out a whistle, muscular arms crossing over his broad chest.

"I expected her to start tearing up at the taste." Jason comments, taking a bite of the orange in his hand, the fruit already peeled and missing a few bites, which suggests that he didn't even cut it.

"I don't think she can cry." Bruce mutters quietly, before letting a shiver run down his spine and he visibly shudders. "She's intense."

Meanwhile, you're in the en suite of your room, coughing your lungs out your ass and trying not to gag as you feed yourself palmfuls of water from the bathroom sink. The water's clean, clear enough to be drinkable and you rinse your mouth. Your lashes are wet with unshed tears as you allow yourself to sink to the cool bathroom tiles, resting your back against the wall and you wipe the water droplets from your chin, letting out panted breaths.

"Holy shit." You mutter quietly.

Talia had trained you personally, wanting you to be her son's bodyguard when he needed it the most. And she deems him 'needing it the most', as now. When he's been living with his father for about 9 years. When he's 6 foot 2. When he's jacked and a fucking ninja who quite literally, is like...

Have you ever seen that movie? Ninja Assassin?

That's Damian.

Moving organs and shit.

It's barely midnight when Damian clomps into your bedroom, arms folded across his chest and he stares at you from beneath dark lashes, eyes glittering like jewels in a cove as he spits out.

"What do I have to do, to make you leave?"

His expression is tight, eyes narrowing and the muscle in his jaw is wound tighter than... Well a wire. That's wound super tight around a thing.

Damian's fingers tap impatiently on his bicep as he waits for you to answer his question, the fabric of his T-shirt stretching tightly around the muscles of his torso, extending past the waistband of his pants. And he runs his tongue across his teeth, stopping at the sharp point of his canine.

"I'm waiting, vermin."

You scoff.

"Calm down, Beverly Hills Ninja." You watch Damian's jaw tick in annoyance at the nickname.

Somehow, they always seem to get worse. Even when they're... Awful.

"I'm not gonna be here for any longer than you need me to be."

Your voice is as grating to his ears as nails to a chalkboard, but that stupid cadence and the lilt of your tone have his mind wracking for ways to put your stupid mouth to better use.

"I don't need you to be here." Damian grumbles.

"Listen, Kung Fu Hustle," you roll your eyes, readying yourself to go to bed as the back of your head makes contact with the puffed up pillow, the satin pillowcase making you let out a sigh of relief, "I'll tell you what you need."

Bruce would actually rather be in that alley again than work another case with your dumb ass.

Commissioner Gordon's protege, the only officer that somehow seems like a combination of Spencer Reid and Jake Peralta. But more Jake, than anything.

"Come on, Sherlock Homo." You snap your fingers in front of Bruce's cowl-covered face, but you watch as his eyes narrow while he stares down at you. But he doesn't speak, simply glancing back towards the clues laid across the surface of the desk in front of you two.

In the archives of the GCPD building, Bruce and you remain working silently. His wards having taken over his patrol, giving him the time for a physical breather but God, his jaw finds itself clenched tighter than Arthur's fist.

The air smells like musty books and ink, a hint of pine cleaner and you settle into your seat, lifting the clue to your eyes, scanning over the parchment for any kind of spot that could mean something.

"I think we should refer to previous riddles." Bruce hums softly, biceps bulging beneath the Kevlar of his suit, his cape fluttering in the breeze that creeps through rusted vents.

"Or we can use Chat GPT?"

Bruce watches, his expression falling to one of incredulity as he watches you grab your phone from your bag, the device just so...

He's distressed, on your behalf.

15%. A few cracks in your screen guard and that bright notification that says your storage is far too full for your phone to be functioning optimally.

And Bruce watches as you type the riddle into the AI app, and he watches as those dots appear, signalling a response being formulated. And Bruce nearly groans aloud when he sees an ad light up your screen.

And he pinches the bridge of his nose in frustration when he watches you screenshot the name of the stupid widget app, saving it for later when you can download it.

"Should we use my phone?"

Bruce's question is unexpected and you crease your brows, shaking your head.

"Nah, I just need to connect to the wifi."

And Bruce wipes his hands over his face, a low groan rumbling in his broad chest before he drops into the seat beside you, and he waits for you.

Each minute seems like a lifetime, and he hears that little beep.

"Did you get an answer?" Bruce questions, his voice tinged with barely contained annoyance, frustration. Almost everything that points to him yanking out his luxurious, inky hair.

"It says I used up my free messages." You purse your lips. "I'm gonna make a new email really quickly."

Half an hour passes before you get an answer. Which is, that there is no answer.

"This...—" Bruce let's out a shaky breath. "Have you ever been told that you're disorganised?"

And you scoff, raising a hand in Bruce's direction to dismiss him.

"Listen, Karate Kid, who went to police academy?" You question Bruce. "Not me, but still. I've still got the badge, American Ninja."

"You're not a legal officer?!"

"License and registration, Mr Wing."

Dick can't believe this.

He's getting a speeding ticket for chasing a fucking criminal on his bike.

"They have my secret identity on them, so I can't give it to you." Dick answers, pulling his bike onto the curb and cutting the engine, and he rests his forearms on the space between the handlebars. Because he just knows this is gonna take a while.

"So you're impersonating right now?"

Dick rolls his eyes behind his mask, and his lips part to protest.

"Listen, officer, I'm in a bit of a hurry and it'd be really nice if you could just... Not do this right now."

Dick's trying to be nice, really. Trying to respect the law and act like a model citizen, like the kind of citizen he'd be happy to protect and serve.

"Well, too bad Britney Allen, justice... Isn't nice. Justice is messy, hard and fast. Like a creampie." And you pull the notebook out of your back pocket, the action of tilting your body just a bit draws Dick's attention to your body.

Perfect hips, only accentuated by those stupid cuffed, cargo pants and that bulky holster belt.

Dick clears his throat.

He seriously cannot be finding you sexy right now.

"So, Twinkle toes, you wanna tell me why you're going 130 in a 80 zone?" You hum, eyes lowered to the notebook in your hands, continuing to scrawl his parking ticket before you glance towards the number plate of the sportbike.

Or more accurately, the lack thereof.

"Oh, Pom Poms," you muse, laughter in your voice as you continue to scrawl, "riding without a number plate? That's an 80 dollar fine."

Rummaging through a hidden compartment, long gloved fingers wrap around a hundred dollar bill before handing it to you. And you pocket it.

"Now what about the fine?"

[thenonbinarydetective]

Do you like the official wayne family adventures? It has everything any batfam fan would want.....But sometimes I feel like they all kinda have the same personality.....shouldn't dick be with titans or starfire....why is he back with Bruce?

EDIT: REMINDER THIS IS MY OPINION. IT IS NOT A DISCUSSION OR ARGUMENT.

It’s what tumblr fanon fans who actively go out of their way to shit on comics wants. To be precise. I’ve been shitting on the behavior of some truly awful people on here for like several years so if anyone reading this is surprised and offended. I don’t care.

No I really don’t like it. The better personalities are the girls really. But even then it’s not great. The boys and Bruce especially are full copy and paste. But honestly that’s the only way they can get what they want to work without digging too deep

That’s kinda the main problem I have with it and many others who do that it’s very surface level fluff rather than actually challenging the “angst” in the comics. I’m only putting it in quotes because to some angst is when it isn’t sunshine and rainbows all the time.

I don’t think it has a good argument, for lack of a better word (still works I just want a different one that I can’t remember rn) for being what it is. And also creating that weirdly rancid, occasionally violent and pretentious fanbase that accuses comic fans of doing that no matter what they say or do. Like some people suck but you dont need essays when people point out flaws in WFA. Of which it has some pretty obvious ones. Aside from batfam characterization their Talia characterization just rubs me the wrong way. Like I know it’s been worse but it’s just not giving what it should.

I think dickbabs is supposed to be canon there or at least people act like it. Idk a lot of their reactions can still read platonic which is why WFA readers try to say it’s batcest. If that answers your starfire question. Technically this should be set at a time where dick wasn’t fully friends with the titans again. Although it’s an au, they could probably just fix that for their obscenely happy go lucky attitude

But if you’re asking why starfire and Roy should be far away from the outlaws title, you’d be right. You can call me dramatic but it was lowkey shitty of them to include them considering the damage it did to their characters. Especially Kory.

Yeah dick should be actually independent. But again it’s family fluff over solid characterization so the umbilical cord isn’t cut yet

It’s negatively effecting comics too. Pushing that coffee Tim bullshit, “feral” Damian, and emotional support dick. The Damian one pisses me off most of all because they really had him pull a knife in a formal affair out of annoyance when that boy was raised an AL GHUL until he went to Bruce. Like if he’s drawing a knife it’s for a formalized duel. Not on an unwitting old woman. But even then I’m not sure I’m forgiving.

Oh and DUKE. Duke gets his own paragraph. Jesus fucking Christ did they do him dirty. Absolute boring cardboard cut out of a child. That also gets mildly sidelined for a comic that began with his narration. I get it’s a group thing but like why did some chapters seem to forget about him completely when they stripped him of every ounce of personality to turn him into a reader insert? God I hate it

There’s a lot of problems with it but apparently when you talk about it you’re in for a “let people enjoy things” lecture from someone who doesn’t actually let people enjoy things. I mean some WFA stans cry webtoon if you talk about the slightest amount of negativity. Claiming they need to be healed. Idk with what because WFA is basically a placebo of a comic

[sunhighriptide]

My Headcanons for the Spice Tolerance of various members and associates of the batfamily.

DICK: He isn't a wimp, but also not a spicy fan. Give him sweet any day. He'll eat the hot sauce from your local mexican restaurant but will avoid spicy challenges at all costs. Has been burned by Jason's food more than once. Does have a liking for sour candy.

BARBARA: Not terrible, but very much not her thing. She likes sour and occasionally bitter. She will not eat your hot sauce. Handles it much better than some, but would rather not purposefully eat pain, thank you very much.

JASON: Spice King. There is almost no food he will not try. Had a high spicy tolerance before he died, after the pit and his world travels, nothing phases him. He loves Alfred's cooking, and it will always be his comfort food, but his palette is way more adventurous. He will only tone his cooking down for Alfred and Barabara. If anyone else wants to eat his food, they can shut up and deal. He doesn't have to feed them.

I don't really have an opinion on Helena. Probably similar to Dick's.

TIM: The biggest wimp to ever wimp. His taste buds are mostly destroyed, so if you feed him spicy food, he won't notice for the first five minutes. Until he realizes his mouth is on fire and is finally distracted from whatever he is working on. The burning will linger for the rest of the day, and he won't talk to the person responsible for a week. He used to gulp water until Steph told him that makes it worse, and he should use milk instead. He figured coffee has enough milk content. Both Damian and Jason have used this against him.

STEPHANIE: Suprisingly impressive. She can nearly match Damian, and no one but Cass can tell she's dying inside towards the end of the hot sauce challenge. She once attempted to eat Jason's spiciest dish while looking him dead on before bailing to the bathroom about six seconds in. Jason never told her it wasn't quite the spicest dish he makes.

CASSANDRA: She doesn't like spicy food and is fully okay with that. Sure, she can tolerate it, but as Barbara said, why would she willingly eat pain? Jason doesn't mind because it is Cass, and she's really chill about it. He'll give her the mild version he makes for Alfred and Babs.

DAMIAN: Obviously, he can handle spicy food, how dare you insult his constitution, plebian. Nothing in the U.S. is going to trip him up, especially nothing in New Jersey, but there are spices he would rather not suffer through, though he will never admit to such a weakness.

KATE: Enjoys spicy food, but European level spicy. She can handle anything found in Italy, no problem, but Indian becomes a problem.

ALFRED: He is English. No, he doesn't like spicy food. He will never like spicy food. This is okay, we still love him.

BRUCE: It is a very good thing he has a nearly perfect poker face because Talia would never have married such a wimp. Feed the white boys (Tim and Bruce), a pepper, and watch Ra's al ghul loose all interest. That's my solution. Cannot handle the slightest spice. The grocery store mild salsa is a danger to him. Will lie to your face about it. Lives in fear of his family discovering this weakness.

[zeynyukine3011]

Not quite sure but even if Talia's character wasn't butchered by racist writers, fandom would still write Talia in their fanfics as a bad mother. Look at Jack and Janet Drake. Just because they weren't flawless, perfect parents fandom treats them as horrible, neglectful, abusive parents while they were not.

And considering Talia is Arab-Chinese, she would still be butchered and mischaractarised by fandom rasicm. Fans might be better than DC in some parts but there is an undeniable racism towards POC characters.

And also because she is a woman. Misogyny is a big problem too and fandoms treat women worse than men. Fandoms don't accept flawed mothers, but they can accept flawed fathers.

So even though the situation would be MUCH BETTER than this, I still think there would so many Bad Parent Talia fics out there.

If anyone disagrees, please share your thoughts with me. This was just a passing thought I had while I was looking at fics.

[drbatsponge]

Most ass Batman comic ever incoming?

Yes this is the preview for Hush 2.

We're lucky Jeph Loeb prefers Babs as Batgirl because this could've been a lot worse if Cass was here.

Feel bad for Damian and Talia fans tho.

[wesavegotham]

"Talia can never be redeemed and her romance with Bruce can never come back because *falls for Grant Morrison's/DC's extreme racism towards asian and arab characters in the 2000s/2010s"

Yeah, sorry, but shut the hell up. It never fails to astound me when DC actually tries to fix the mistakes they made with Talia/the al Ghuls in general these last two decades and the fans manage to be even worse than DC by clinging to the blatant racist/sexist writing of the past instead of embracing the turn for the better.

"But she did this and that!"

She's a fictional character in a fictional universe that is aware that it goes through continuity changes/retcons. What Grant Morrison did to her character was a a complete retcon of her 30 year history and characterization with zero respect for her. Why am I supposed to take Morrison's bullshit as gospel and reject any attempts to fix her from writers who know better?

[sparkylilacs]

Bat Family Show Concept

I’ll admit while I’m more of a casual Bat-Man fan, I’ve been stalking the Bat Family concept posts on here and love the idea! 

It made me wonder why no networks have tried to make it a show yet? And that made me think about how it might play out. But since I’m still pretty green I need advice as to where to put which Bat kid in each of the middle child roles.

See Damian and Dick are easy to place. 

Damian: Baby, like actually only 4-5 years old, with lots of chaos energy. The other Bat kids consider babysitting him worse than a one on one training session with Bruce. 

Dick: 19-20 years old, finally off at college and trying to enjoy a normal life and put superhero stunts behind him (at least for now). Basically he's Nora from Cheaper by the Dozen, and keeps getting called back to the manor to meditate fights and babysit.

Then I have middle children roles, but am not sure who would fit best where.

9-10 year old Bat: Just learned the family secret or was just officially adopted by the family and is so excited to be here training. Because we are freaking SUPERHEROS!

12-13 year old Bat: Current Robin, but is getting frustrated with the role (they can only go on night patrols with Bruce and even then only once or twice a month) and really wants their own super persona. Keeps trying out new names and costumes on their siblings, each more ridiculous (would be really funny if some of the personas referenced B role DC heroes) than the last.

15-16 and 16-17 year old Bats: Have their own superhero personas and have just started going on solo night patrols once a week. Current Robin is very jealous of them and they may rub it in the younger kid’s face just a bit.

But wait, where's Jason you may ask? He is the black sheep of the family (we don't talk about Bruno), the younger Bats barely remember/ didn’t know him at all. He left the night Talia dropped baby Damian at the manor. It was after a huge fight with Bruce over the family business that he ran off with Talia al Ghul and the League of Assassins. But as the show kicks off a new villain Red Hood has been growing power in the streets of Gotham. Nobody knows who he is or where he came from. Will there be a big dramatic reveal? Absolutely. Also Jason does not know about Damian or why Talia was in Gotham city that night. Just to add more drama of course.

Alfred will be the rock of the manor as he’s always been. He knows each of the Bats favorite late stakeout night drinks, the only way to get Damian to go to bed, and is the reason Dick keeps coming back to help out at the manor. Basically the overextended MVP, but he loves every minute of it because he remembers how quiet and empty the manor was after Bruce lost his parents. He is thriving in all the noise and life the manor has now.

*edit* Had another idea Barbara Gordon while not officially a Wayne, she is the nerdy kid from school who figures them out and follows them home one day to the Bat Cave. At first they are suspicious of her but, after she makes them give her a chance by threatening to tell her dad The Commissioner, she proves herself trustworthy and is inducted into the team. Basically the only child is enamored by large family trope, with more punching. (P.S. she uses the name Batgirl semi ironically because it’s what Damian called her when he first saw her suited up)

Please add on your own ideas!

[havendance]

I’m back again with another fic rec list. This time with a baker’s dozen of excellent Batman fics of the hidden gen variety that I’ve dug up. Hopefully there’s something new for everyone on here. Check them out! Give them some love!

Boy Hostage by kuonji

2.5k, complete. A fun little piece showing each of the batboys getting in and out of getting kidnapped for ransom.

but I don’t own a single gun by Molly_Hats (@mollyhats)

1.1k, complete. DICK AND TIM! A conversation between them set at a vague point in the timeline in which various old wounds of the past get dug up.

Get Used to Dying, by papered_king (@paperedking)

1.6k, complete. A very neat character study for Jason that’s formatted as a script for a play and does and excellent job of utilizing it’s format.

It could be worse by Runespoor

2.8k, complete. A series of vignettes about alternate universes where it was somebody else that took Jason in instead of Bruce.

paradoxical sleep by brawltogethernow (@brawltogethernow)

4k, wip. A vibey and cool inception AU. I have never actually watched inception so I don’t know what’s going on half the time when I read this, but I do know that it’s a fun read!

Promises by RenaRoo (@renaroo)

33k, wip. A fix-it fic for Cass’s One Year Later/Evil!Cass arc. This one admittedly, has not been updated since 2018, but it is still very good and you all should read it! It’s got Cass & Tim! Cass interacting with the Birds of Prey! And it really does a great job of digging into her head and all of her raw emotions.

Rose Garden by batling_out_of_hell

6k, wip. In which Cass decides to rebel against Batman and take over the world in order to make sure that no one kills ever. A delight to read. The first chapter is a little slower to start, but chapter 2 onwards is rocking!

Ships and Schemes by Molly_Hats (@mollyhats)

1.3k, complete. A short and fun little fic where Oracle’s been running a misinformation op by harnessing Bruce Wayne/Batman Shippers.

The Fisher Prince by Arctic_Cyclist

3.4k, complete. Damian vs Poison Ivy during the Batman Reborn era. This fic has rich prose, cool lore, and Damian kicking ass through superior ecological praxis.

these crosses by mintchocochips (@mintchocochipsposts)

7.1k, complete. Post-No Man’s Land Helena Bertinelli character study my beloved! Also features a fun Tim & Helena scene for fellow fans of their dynamic.

There is no milk! by chucklesbuckles

2.1k, complete. A fic where Catherine is alive when Jason dies. The start of a Red Hood!Catherine AU, but hasn’t actually gotten to that part in the series yet. It does an excellent job at capturing Catherine’s grief. (Note: This fic is only available to read if you have an AO3 account)

They move and it's fire by Arctic_Cyclist

1.5k, complete. Dick and Damian doing gymnastics together and Damian being recognized as Talia’s son.

when the bodies hit the floor by nashequilibrium

7k, complete. A fun Steph & Damian teamup where they take on a ghost at a sleepover gone wrong with some really fun to read prose.

[anxiousnerdwritings]

Damn... if we go back to au, where Demian's twin reader becomes Harley's child, how much will Talia be jealous.

She's like, yes, I didn't put my child in anything, he's an unworthy brat, but I hate even more that she found another mother and thinks I'm worse😡😡

And Ra, outraged at the conditions in which his grandson is being brought up (and angry that Talia allowed the child to escape with these people, and full of hatred because now his role as the main male role model has been replaced by some crazy clown)

Talia would be incredibly jealous and irate but it wouldn’t stem from her own maternal instincts, it’s all about principle. That child, even though she despises them and thinks their nothing but a defective spawn, is her child. It all comes down to possessiveness. And she especially wouldn’t take well to the situation if her child was absolutely thriving with Harley as their mother.

Ra’s would be incredibly enraged, mainly at Talia. Whether the twin!Reader left of their own accord (before Talia could do anything to them) or Talia got rid of them herself and sent them to their demise, Ra’s would blame Talia for the Reader ending up in the hands of Harley. In his eyes it was her fault, if only she had opened her eyes and saw what he saw in them then she would have tried so much harder with them. But seeing that his favorite grandchild was flourishing with Harley (and the fact that when he first visited them the Reader had a sword to his neck in protection of their new mother), Ra’s would be more inclined to allow the a reader to stay right where they were. The only thing he’d want in return would be for them to keep in contact with him. Even if they weren’t to do so he’d have his people watching over them and keeping him updated.

Meanwhile, Harley would have no problem kicking Talia’s ass and even going as far as killing her for how she treated Harley’s bby. When she learned of the Reader’s upbringing and how Talia Ned Damian treated them, Harley would be out for blood. She wouldn’t be able to wrap her head around how a mother can be so cruel to her own child. If Harley ever catches sight of Talia, it’s on sight and she’s aiming to maim. But I could see Harley and Ra’s coming to some kind of agreement regarding the Reader. The two aren’t exactly allies but when it comes to the Reader they’ll keep in contact with each other and if they need to they’ll work together for their precious darling.

In the case of the jokerized!twin!Reader then that would be a completely different situation. If Harley had taken the Reader in on her own, with no Joker in the picture, then things would be alright, but if Joker’s playing ‘daddy’ and especially if twin!Reader has already had a visit to the chemical vats then shit is hitting the fan (mainly in regards to Ra’s’ reaction).

Talia’s reaction to Jokerized!twin!Reader isn’t going to be anything positive. If anything she’ll only double down on her terrible treatment of the Reader, becoming even more disgusted by them and what they move become. She’ll accuse them of having finally sunk so low that there’s no coming back and that she was right to want to get rid of them. But once the Reader starts attacking her and is using their training from their upbringing among the League of Assassins and the unhinged, uncontrollable, unpredictable rawness they’re coming at her with has her shook. It’s probably Harley who goes at her first in retaliation for what Talia is saying about her bby and the Reader only jumps in to protect and fight for their new mother.

Fleeing, Talia would plan to come back or have some members of the League come and retrieve her faulty child so that she can train and forge them into what they should have been all this time ago, maybe even making them into something even better than that.

Ra’s would be outraged and plain disgusted with both the clowns and Talia. Again, if it weren’t for her his beloved grandchild wouldn’t have been desecrated and ruined by them. He would take matters into his own hands and save his grandchild from their ‘new family’. And he won’t let anyone stop him. He may even team up with Bruce but there’s no guarantee that Ra’s will allow anyone to have anything to do with the Reader when he gets them back. Not Talia, not Damian, not Bruce, no one would be allowed to come anywhere near them. They’ve been failed and ruined enough, he won’t let it happen again. It’s safe to say that Joker would surely meet his demise and there’s nothing Bruce could do to keep Ra’s from going through with his eradication of the Clown Prince.

And if getting the Reader back means having to kill them to do so then Ra’s will, but they won’t stay dead for long. He can promise that.

[judgeanon]

So about that DETECTIVE COMICS #1084...

As a big Shiva fan, I really, really liked that. Maybe my favorite issue with her since Hill's Outsiders run. I made a thread in another site about it but I liked that issue so much that I'm gonna take a sec to repost it here too, so hit that jump if you wanna read an in-depth analysis of 'Tec #1084... or at least, its backup feature!

I'm kinda kidding, I actually enjoyed the main story too. I liked seeing Bruce and Talia reunited in a very touching moment of romance that gives way to grim tension as the unfortunate complications of the strange and violent world they live being to slowly rip them apart once more... and then Shiva happens. For one panel and in a flashback but it was really fun to see Talia call her a friend for a bunch of reasons.

The most serious one is that I genuinely think that, given enough room to work with, Talia and Shiva could be a very compelling pair. Shiva is known to be interested in people who are in a state of flux, who find themselves in crossroads trying to figure out where their true path really lies. And Talia, for better or worse, has been there for, like... years now. I've always thought that Talia, endlessly torn between her love for Bruce, her love for her father, and her love for the world, might even find something tempting about Shiva's absolute detachment, about her comparative freedom from all connections. Which would be fun to explore.

The other reason comes from the issue's backup story by Alex Paknadel and Robbi Rodriguez, which I didn't expect at all but ended up being a huge treat for me, since it aligned so much with a lot of what I consider the most interesting elements and perspectives in Shiva and Cass' relationship.

Right from the start, we have Shiva being able to read Cass and figure out what's wrong with her just from a couple of fighting moves, which I absolutely adore. What looks like a fight is really just them having a conversation, at least for Shiva, who is very quickly able to get at the deeper emotions troubling Cass and holding her back.

(Also, that one panel of Snake Style ThodThodThod's really made me smile. I love the idea of Shiva using stranger, more exotic martial arts than anyone else, especially in Gotham)

On my first read I wasn't really onboard with Shiva's words about not killing Cass, like there was something about them that didn't quite click, but after mulling them over for a while I feel like they can be read as Shiva intentionally picking at Cass' perfectionist nature and competitive spirit. It's less "I spared you and now you owe me" and more "You trying to be Batman makes you suck, here's why, now be better." But I might be reaching a bit there.

Still, it does work, which I really enjoy. I like Shiva being able to prod Cass into reaching deep within her, figuring out what's wrong and improving herself. And we get a lot of that in the next couple of pages, where Cass grapples with the Azmer while also grappling with her own nature. Cass' training with David is an extremely defining element of her character. It's her instincts, her mother tongue, her main method of expression, but it's also something that causes her a ton of inner turmoil, due to the intentions of that training.

Cass is presented in this story as someone inwardly ashamed by her nature, worried of the assassin skills that are weaved into her very nature and what that may say about her. Of course, this is something that Cass has been through before and has developed quite a bit, maybe even outgrown but with Batman dead and gone, it probably makes sense for her to lapse a bit back into self-loathing without that symbol to guide her and with her failure at trying to emulate it. Which I think is a very human thing to happen. Your worst traits are never really gone, and tend to slip back into you when you're at a low point.

Which is why I really like the last few panels of this story.

Although first, Shiva calling Talia an "associate" makes me giggle a bit. C'mon Shivs, don't be so tsun-tsun... anyway.

On the most basic level, we have Shiva offering Cass some solid advice that ties the whole story in a neat bow. But it takes on an even stronger quality when you remember this is Lady Shiva talking here. Shiva, who we know wants Cass to be more than just a Bat. Shiva, who understands the strength that comes from finding your own path and following it. Shiva, who maybe more than anyone knows exactly how strong Cass can be once she embraces all aspects of her own nature and finds harmony in herself.

From almost any other character, that last phrase would just be a nice little canned moral. From Shiva's lips, it carries the weight of decades of character work for both Cass and Shiva. It's a solid ending that's elevated by the history between its characters. It hits SO many of the notes I want to see, the things that I think make Shiva's relationship with Cass genuinely compelling. Shiva being able to "read" Cass through a fight, her wanting Cass to be herself more than anything else, and all of it unhindered by any kind of easy moral judgment from Cass or the story itself.

Shiva is not presented as a monstrous villainess who Cass must reject, but as her own character with her own story that happpens to cross with Cass' for a moment. And from Shiva, there's no berating Cass for being a hero or choosing not to kill. There is berating, sure, but it works because it speaks to something a lot more personal for both characters than generic notions of good or evil. It speaks about Cass' need to find and be herself and stick with it no matter what.

(Which this arc also touched upon a couple months ago in 'Tec #1082, which very elegantly made it clear that Cass had the heart of a hero before she even knew what a Batman was -- an incredibly powerful statement made in just two captions)

So this is a story that hits pretty much all the right notes for me. I wish it would hit them a bit longer, or in a few different ways that didn't involve Batman, but it's just a perfect example of most of the elements that I think make this relationship worth exploring. Even the fact that this makes it the sixth major appearance of Lady Shiva in a row that is ultimately dedicated to her relationship with Cass doesn't bother me because this is precisely how I want this relationship to be written. If they were all this good, I wouldn't even mind.

And on top of all that, this issue is also a good example of something I'm always thinking about: tempting as it is, you don't need to make every Shiva appearance be huge and bombastic and lead to some massive story arc. It can be something small but meaningful, a quick appearance with some very choice words, Shiva walking into an ongoing story to, in her own way, help others get through an inflection point.

If I had to say something I disliked about it, I do think it's a little blunt in its themes and execution. Paknadel has Shiva quite literally spell out the problem for Cass, which I guess is fine given how short the story is, but it does lose a bit of elegance because of it. Still, it was a great little treat and while I know Ram's 'Tec run is coming to its end, I do hope he'll find a place for one last bit of Shiva in it.

And I also hope he gets to write her for more than just one wordless balloon because Ram V's Lady Shiva is a dream book in my book.

[fancyfade]

Williamson continues to disappoint in batman and robin 2023

Like (spoilers. also CW child abuse)

I respect the general intention behind the talia portrayed as putting limits on damians instructors in the league and not being portrayed as a 100% abusive monster. It's necessary to show that, though obviously the best option would be for her not to have been portrayed as involved in raising him as an assassin at all.

But Williamson has previously done half assed al ghul retcons that went nowhere, often while later portraying them in a more unflattering manner in a way that makes me question if he was actually trying to fix writing in the first place.

He also just... is a huge fan of making damians abuse I guess like more "conventional", or more immediately obvious to see, which I don't like. Like whenever he writes damians instructors their always telling him he's not good enough or being extremely harsh in ways he needs to be saved from.

But like... previously in tomasi and gleasons writing, we see damian told that he is great. It's not unwarranted - he is incredibly talented and he works hard and does impossible feats. But i feel like if Williamson wrote those scenes he'd rewrite it for damian to do something incredibly impressive and then people come in and tell damian he sucks anyway and needs to be better and that is so NOT THE POINT. Like his childhood can be abusive... and he was treated like the heir who was going to take over*, he was not insulted a bunch, he was told he was great (while he also demonstrated capability).

Like I'm reminded of how horrocks wrote cass and david's dynamic compared to puckett (link). Where when Cass reflects on her childhood with David while Puckett writes her, she often is portrayed as happy. Even when he shoots her to keep her on her toes. She doesn't see anything wrong with her childhood! Horrock portrays their dynamic with a much more "typical" take on an abusive dad and abused child, with cass being touch starved and sad.

Williamson takes a complicated situation (raising a child in such an extreme way to kill people is abusive, but he also was supported/encouraged vocally by his family and told he's awesome (not unwarrantedly, he does demonstrate being awesome)) and then flattens it into something that is more palatable and obvious to the reader. There were these mean guys who insulted Damian and hit him or wanted to throw him to the wolves. It just sits so wrong with me to flatten a complex situation that is not immediately obvious to many people what's wrong with it into a more stereotypical situation

In terms of Talia I feel like... it is not making things worse, and maybe trying to be a little better, but it's still working off foundations that are so OOC it's hard to imagine. Like yeah realistically Williamson can't retcon Talia raising Damian as an assassin without DC editors approval probably, but given the rest of his writing I really doubt he would try to do that anyway. No matter what, the major complaint ("she raised her child as an assassin") is still there

*going by new 52 onward stories, pre new 52 was kind of unclear and I could see some arguing for Williamson's interpretation... but also pre new 52 would not have had Talia present at all (just while she's being villainized)

[cookiesupplier]

Every Rose Has Its Thorns - Part Nineteen

pairing: Ricky Olson x ofc x Chris 'Motionless' Cerulli

warnings/tropes: slow burn, soulmates, strangers to enemies to lovers, betrayal, angst, fluff, smut, language, panic attack, stalking, online bullying.

summary: In a world where soulmates inexplicably receive a tattoo that will match that of their soulmate the moment they turn eighteen years old, being famous and covered in very visible tattoos can make finding your true soulmate a questionable fate. For everyone involved.

author’s note: Unbeta'd, readers beware as always lol.

tags:@tearfallpixie @cncohshit @jordynyingling0219 @faceless-mirror @nyxthedestroyerofworlds @wild-child-7747 @witchyweeb34 @black-damask1999 @jilliemiw86 @ilovesamkiszka @lyschko666 @lacktoesandtoddlerants @bngurngheart @collapsedglasshouses @laurpartyprogram

Tag List is Open, please let me know if you would like to be added to it or in general.

Ricky was staying with Chris, which he hadn’t wanted to. When he came down, having finished editing the video, uploading it to YouTube so that he could publish it when he was ready, only for Chris to let him know the plan. He’d argued that he was fine in his own house. He hadn’t worked hard to buy his own fucking house to get run out of it by some fucking insane psycho stalker!

The whole argument had fallen on deaf ears. Chris had just shaken his head, saying that he wouldn’t be staying with him forever, that this was still his house, just until they figured out how to deal with everything that was happening, until all of this settled down. It would all be settled down. Chris assured him, standing there with him, a hand on his shoulder, the other curving around the back of his neck, just helping him breathe for a second. It would be fine.

Talia had taken a deep breath herself watching the guys console Ricky, as much as he fought to stay in the house, something about how he looked as he turned to head back upstairs to go pack a bag so he could stay with Chris, she had a feeling there was a weight off his shoulders. He could argue that he was fine here all he wanted, but he wasn’t, and she didn’t blame him. Realising that you had a stalker, it didn’t matter who they were, it was unnerving. In this case Talia thought  it was worse because Ricky did know Grace, and Grace knew Ricky, and now they knew that Grace hadn’t given up, whether, she thought she could get him back, or she was just trying to ruin his life, Talia didn’t know. Then again, someone as insane as to date him for so long and think he’d never find out she was lying to him, it was possible she thought turning the fans against him, would get him to come back to her. So Ricky packed up a bag of his things, along with some of his equipment, and after he published the video to his channel, headed to go home with Chris. Talia, however, went with Vin and Ava like she had been since she’d arrived, waiting to see how it would fair with the video, how the fans would react. By the time the video went live, it had been quite late at night for all of them, so it was no surprise, that she crashed into a fitful sleep long before she saw any reaction to it.

When Talia woke up, she realised it was mid-morning, and found a text from Ava, telling her that she’d gone into town with Vinny and that they’d be back later that afternoon. So dragging herself to make something to eat, only to hear the door, she sighed, walking from the kitchen, she went to answer it, and saw Rick on the other side of the door, waiting.

“Vin isn’t here, he went out with Ava-”

“Actually, I came to see you.”

She was taken aback. So far, Ricky hadn’t once gone out of his way to want to see her, every time they’d spoken, the party, yesterday, even the diner, had all been circumstances when they’d been put together because of other people, and had to deal with the other person, and now he was here, seeking her out?

“Um, okay, come in, I guess?”

Stepping aside to let him in, while it wasn’t her house, she knew Ricky was more than welcome in Vinny’s house as it was.

“I’m just making something to eat, I only just got up, I, well, I didn’t sleep well last night.”

Talia nervously rubbed her neck slightly, she hadn’t been able to check her phone without being abused in her messages on her social media since yesterday, and honestly, she was scared to check it now, she hadn’t checked her messages since she woke up.

“I haven’t checked my messages since I got up, I know it's going to be crazy, I can’t control how the fans react, all I know was what I said, and I turned the comments off on the video. I told them I would, because of the abuse that came after the live, and how ashamed I am that any of my fans would abuse anyone online, ever. So.”

Walking back towards the kitchen after she closed and locked the door, she doubted that would change everyone, she knew how fandoms got, while there were a lot of good people there could be a lot of bad too. It wasn’t a good thing, even if you could meet great friends, you could meet your worst enemy too.

“What was more important, was, talking to you about yesterday, about how we haven’t really talked, and you were right, I haven’t wanted to. Honestly, because admitting that you’re my soulmate has been, it's been shit through all of this. I have been struggling-”

“I know Ricky, you don’t need to explain that to me-”

“Shit! Will you just stop!”

Rick cut her off as she went to make herself a coffee, and she started a little, going tense as she set the cup that she’d just pulled out of the cupboard on the counter carefully, not wanting to look back at him now and fuck, he ran his fingers through his hair, feeling bad for snapping at her with how she looked right then. Shit... Why did she have to look like a spooked fucking deer, when yesterday she looked like she was ready to slap him into the middle of next week. Where was that girl, he needed her for the moment. But he supposed, at the same time, he needed reminding, why he was here, after what she said yesterday, he didn’t know her, he didn’t know the pain she’d been put through, by her own fucking family. He had so much support around him, from the band, his friends, and even his family from a whole other state, and she had Ava and two friends who couldn’t even be here with her now.

“I’m sorry I shouldn’t have snapped at you, I just, do you always do that? Make excuses for other people's shitty behaviour? You’ve been doing nothing but that for me since we met, haven’t you?”

He’d known he was acting like an ass, but hearing her yesterday, he hadn’t realised just how much of one he was until then. Shit. When Talia didn’t say anything, just stared at him for a long moment, Ricky glanced down at the coffee cup on the counter and shifted on his feet, moving to pick up the cup. When she went to say something, he lifted his hand,

“Let me, how do you like it?”

He didn’t have Ava here to ask, and hadn’t prepared in advance like she had yesterday, so, he went ahead and asked her directly.

“Half cream, no sugar, please.”

Nodding slightly, they both fell silent as he went to work to make her her coffee, while she knew she hadn’t eaten anything yet and any moment her stomach was going to rebel, it was going to have to be satisfied with the coffee, because the thought of eating anything while about to talk about soulmates with Rick, well, the thought made her feel a bit sick. They’d been going around in circles enough, and she was a bit terrified of where this was going to go, not to mention the messages she had seen yesterday, had brought back the worst memories, she didn’t need to go down that path right now.

Once he was done, Rick handed over her coffee, and let her take a sip before,

“Okay?”

When she nodded slightly, he smiled a little, at least he could do something right, even if it was only coffee.

“Good, okay. So, I know I’m fucked up, and I don’t need you making excuses for me, I don’t deserve them, any of them. I don’t deserve them any more than the people in your past do, because I know I don’t know you that well, but from everything Ava says about you, and she talks about you constantly,”

His voice a little deadpanned at that, trying not to smirk at the way Talia’s face turned a bright fucking red when he said that, she did though, Ava had talked Talia up all through their time on tour, even if Rick had tried to avoid any talk of her like the plague it had been impossible in its entirety. He’d be laying in his bunk, and Ava would be talking to Vinny about home, and Talia this, and Talia that, and it had made him want to scream in fucking frustration into his pillow that he couldn’t escape her.

“Then you are an amazing person. Honestly, you’d think you were her soulmate, Vin should watch out, she might have a thing.”

Hearing her chuckle against the coffee much was better than the dead silence, and the startled look she’d given him when he’d snapped at her before.

“There was that moment in college, so maybe, he should be warned.”

“Oh wow, noted, I’ll give him a heads-up.”

Both of them were laughing that time as she drank some more of her coffee, Ricky reaching for another coffee mug as he started to make himself a coffee.

“So yeah, I want to apologise, I realise, like a complete asshole, that I haven’t, for anything that I’ve done, or said to you, pretty much the entire time I’ve known you. How I’ve treated you has been, inexcusable. Even if you weren’t my soulmate, I should have treated you with more respect, especially as my best friend’s soulmate’s best friend, sister even.”

Both of them, standing in the kitchen, with their coffees leaning back against opposing counters and drinking at their mugs,

“Thank you.”

It was nice to hear it, at least. Talia hadn’t ever even gotten an apology from her family. Not that they would ever consider that they were wrong, that she could be right about having a famous soulmate, that was it, not that she’d always known who he was. Kyle and Jordan had known from the start, it was that Ricky was famous. Who was she, what right did she have, to have a famous soulmate when they didn’t? At least that was how Ava put it, that they were all just jealous, what made her special, was that she had a famous soulmate, and they didn’t, why did she deserve something more? She didn’t, she just had a soulmate, a normal soulmate, Ricky. Ricky, who enjoyed music, had been painfully abused by a horrible woman because of it.

“Fuck, don’t thank me, I was an asshole to you, especially at that party, shit. Making you prove it.”

He knew how he was treating her then, just like Grace had been suggesting she was, just someone out to play him, and he felt like utter fucking trash for it. Now she was thanking him for finally acting like a decent human being and apologising? Well, that made him feel even worse.

“Shit, you can’t be real.”

Just hearing him mention that party, even with what he was saying, how he’d treated her that day, Talia was feeling some sort of way, and Ricky’s eyes went wide when he felt the way she was reacting to it, the way his soulmate tattoo started to grow warm. Only the heat wasn’t instant and, well, stabbing like yesterday, it was like a warm slow burn. The warmth was a tingle that sunk into his skin to spread through him, and shit. That was when he saw it, the way her fingers pressed tighter to her mug, her back arched as she stood a little straighter, her thighs, tensed slightly, pressing together under her long shirt, the shorts she wore barely visible underneath.. Oh, and oh that delicate flush of her cheeks..

“Oh, oh Talia..”

The words were so softly off his lips, that he barely breathed them, he wasn’t even sure she heard him, but that wasn’t the point. She had to be some sort of masochist, he was a fucking asshole to her of epic proportions, and she was still thinking about him like that. Swallowing, not that he could lie himself, that day had played on his mind too. He’d thought about her more than once over the past week, enough that that tingle in his tattoo right now was not an unfamiliar feeling… Right now, seeing the way she was rolling her shoulder on the side of her tattoo, remembering how she reacted to the pain yesterday… it was making him wonder.

Did she feel it every time he did?

Did Talia feel what he felt every time he’d felt a surge of sensation in that tattoo?

Fuck, the most memorable had been when they were together, in that bathroom. He’d felt it, the way he brushed against her tattoo, the way he’d let his lips trail over her tattoo, how in that instant he’d felt her come around his cock as he did. Just thinking about it now, he might as well have been buried deep inside of her again, with the way the surge of feeling in his tattoo flared just at the thought, his eyes closed at the soft gasp that escaped her against the mug of her coffee.

“Shit.”

Ricky set his down on the counter before he dropped it and scalding hot coffee went everywhere. He took a deep breath, eyes opening before he moved towards her, taking the mug from her hands and putting it aside, hot coffee, safely out of reach for the moment, and then his hand was curving around the side of her neck, over her soulmate tattoo, just letting his fingers rest there over her skin nothing more, and feeling her shiver slightly under his touch.

“You can feel something, can’t you?”

Dividers by @saradika-graphics

[redwiccanrobin]

I just realized something else that makes me pissed about thebisexualbatman.

They completely took the context out of this scene. They said Talia was threatening to rape Bruce, but here it’s clear that she’s saying she doesn’t know if she can wait and stay by his side. They fucking know what they’re doing. They’re intentionally spreading misinformation to make not only Talia look worse but her fans look worse by liking her. Don’t engage, just block and don’t take them seriously.