#and if you want to say that rauru and mineru and the ancient hero are all from the same game while mipha and sidon and oren are from

[teamcapwasrightandishouldsayit]

hot loz take: we don't actually know what zonai look like. we know what RAURU AND MINERU look like.

imagine if like... zora. had never been depicted onscreen before. and then when we finally meet some, it's mipha and sidon and no one else.

the fandom would draw from this: zora are red with white markings. zora are shark-like. zora girls are very short and zora boys are very tall. zora have yellow eyes. zora have fins on their shoulders and elbows and waists.

but that's not true, is it? imagine, then, that in that world where we only knew mipha and sidon, there was an item called, idk, the ancient queen's aspect, and when you put it on it turned you into, say, queen oren from albw.

and the fandom would look at this and say, that can't be a zora. sure, she's fish-like, but think of all the differences! she's not red and has no white markings. her eyes aren't yellow. she has no shoulder/elbow fins. she's not a shark! zora are sharks, as we all know. her waist fins look nothing like zora waist fins. does she even have legs? couldn't possibly be a zora. she looks nothing like one!

but she is a zora. we know this, because we've seen many kinds of zora and know they are a diverse species that also evolved a lot over time.

this brings me to the ancient hero.

many people have said this can't be a zonai. zonai are gray, and he's green. zonai have white sclera, and his are black. zonai have three eyes, and he only has two. zonai have human like feet and he has paws. zonai don't have tails, but he does. zonai have big furry ears but his are more hylian. zonai have white hair with coloured accents, but his is red.

but. no. guys.

rauru and mineru are gray. rauru and mineru have white sclera and three eyes and human like feet and no tails and big ears and white hair. rauru and mineru have these things. that doesn't mean every zonai matches that description.

plus, this is, presumably, the ancient hero who fought the first calamity. which was thousands of years after rauru and mineru were alive. i think it's not unreasonable to assume there could have been some evolution there. and even if there was no evolution at all and zonai are exactly the same as they were when rauru and mineru were alive. there is no reason the ancient hero can't be a zonai.

[ganondoodle]

I probably still wouldn’t have been a big fan of the game, but I don’t think I would have been NEARLY as upset about TotK if BotW didn’t seem like it was so obviously setting up plot points for a sequel. Like, you’re very clearly MEANT to wonder what malice is, and how Ganon became the Calamity instead of just the Demon King. Fi is awake again, where are they going either that? What’s the deal with the Triforce-shaped symbol on Zelda’s hand? There were a LOT of other things like that, and many of them had to do with overarching lore for the series.

I get it if they want to reboot the series, but “BotW 2” was the single worst game you could have done that with. It could have been an amazing conclusion to the original continuity.

EXACTLY, you, you get it

botw felt like the introduction to a vast world with secrets and hints to things that were planned to become a bigger thing- a big giant game as a big giant set up, and then ... like totk likes to do alot, it lacks a pay off, and that is something it even does within itself, cosntantly, set up and no pay off, or set up and the most boring and uninspired pay off you can really not even call that, from the bigger things like the whole dragon thing being hammered into your head as irreversible and then it IS reversible.. out of nowhere without you having to do fuck all, the whole thing with the ancient hero beign a big mystery with lots of interesting ideas attached and then its some weird ass dog creature that doesnt resemble any other race with, of course, sonau armor, bc there nothing that isnt sonau in that game, even finding the old treasure maps you can find that then lead to amiibo stuff from botw id call that

botw wasnt that great with rewards either but exploring the world and wondering about those, surely intentionally, placed mysterious and intriguing designs and places did alot for making it so interesting to think about, totk fumbles it all and even the new stuff doesnt even come close to that environmental storytelling botw was so great at, sonau ruins? ha they look entirely different than in botw actually, bc those were built by hylians you see, the actual sonau stuff is in prime condition considering the time thats passed and its all the same blank blocky blocks that serve no purpose but to be a place for you to find a thing or exchange some currency- the most you can think about it is ... that the sonau hollowed out the entire underground of hyrule, every inch of the map, ... which is WEIRD and doesnt exactly make them look that good but ... thats all there is

at least with the shiekah it made somewaht more sense and it felt much less .. invasive? and you didnt have anyone from that time to talk to, other than dead monks whos only purpose is to give you their last piece of their own spirit, but in totk ... raurus ghost and mineru too are both just there to talk to but DONT tell you shit but vague hints that were already clear, the sky islands used to be on the ground? oh you dont say, you see them there in the stupid memories! and dont get to know how they got up there and theres nothing that can clue you in to that, its just sonau magic yet again i guess

dont even get me started on the whole malice/miasma thing, it made so much SENSE that there was a source of it, someone that has keep kept in a horrible place just between life and death for thousands of years trying to break free by their hate and anger manifesting to such a degree its literally spilling out and building creppy eyeballs, mouths and ribcage like structures like they are trying to rebuild themsleves outside of their awful prison no one knows about is so damn compelling, but no, actually, the guy trapped there was the msot evilest evar, was sealed bc him evil and no other motive, and the previously mentioned stuff is pretty much utterly unceonnected, and his magic beign miasma with red instead of pink and no creepy body parts was the true version of it, that pink one was its own thing heehooo SHUT UP argh

it doesnt help that really, i dont feel like the sonau were set up either, they were a tiny part in botw, really only serving to make the world seem more ancient and more full of history, having ruins from a past civilization there you know nothing about and cant find out more is so good, its compelling and sad and makes the world feel more real, just shoving them into everything, being the center of attention all of thes udden and not even the architecure fitting feels so ... forced, i really truly believe the og sonau werent meant to be more than that, but in their fear of the game being too similarly looking like botw they took the sonau to replace the shiekah with them- imo the shiekah were the ones set up to be deeper explored in botw, with their whole misstreatment by the royal family in the past, monk miz kyoshia reacting the same way a yiga commander would was deliberate and brings up even more interesting ideas, the comments about where the mysterious energy the ancient shiekah used to power everything being concentrated in certain regions?? thats a big ass set up, the fact that the center of what is signaling everything to reactivate being below hyrule castle? the fact the whole arena thing was BUILT INTO THE CASTLE or it on top of it is so??? cool??? and sso damn intriguing, we are scratching the surface of their history- but then no, actually, the sonau are the cool new shit those other ones just uh ... disappear, also the sonau did everythign the shiekah did but even better wayy before them haha

its like they didnt want to tackle the more complicated stuff with the shiekah, their relationship to the royal family and how the yiga ... have a point and a good reason- so they replaced them with entirely new purely goodest good guys that did the same stuff before them with none of the history attached :))

this is why im so insistent on it not really being a sequel, thers no follow up on anything that was set up, NOTHING, and no, a couple having a kid now or whatever isnt a follow up on an interesting set up, how hard is it to understand that-

.... listen to me rambling, you probably know all that already nhjdfkbnkd

(i know i always bring up the shiekah but ... they were so central in botw, while also not taking up every single corner- unlike some other ones >_____>, with so much interesting stuff to connect and think about, i cared about them so much i felt kicked down the stairs by their treatment in totk)

[werewen]

I saw a lot of people saying that the Ancient Hero is a Zonai so I compiled some notable differences. the bottom image shows the difference between the Ancient Hero's arm and the one Link borrowed from Rauru. speaking of, did you notice that it's slightly longer than Link's arm?

EDIT: yes it’s entirely possible that nintendo could confirm the ancient hero is a zonai and the differences between individuals are way bigger than between Rauru and Mineru. but as of now there is no evidence that is the case. THIS POST IS JUST FOR FUN IF YOU WANT TO THEORIZE OR HEADCANON DO WHAT YOU WANT I DON’T CARE.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Gale’s Theories: Ganondorf is not the same Ganondorf

Now if you have read that statement, you are probably VERY confused

What do I mean by that?

Well buckle up kiddos, I’m about to drop my theory on you.

Demon king Ganondorf from tears of the kingdom

Is not the same as Calamity Ganon

In fact he isn’t connected to the other Ganondorfs in the Zelda Timeline.

So Spoilers for tears of the kingdom.

The Demon King Ganondorf came to be 10000 years before the events of Tears of the kingdom. Around the founding of Hyrule, in the Age of King Rauru and Queen Sonia.

He killed the queen and stole her sage stone to become the monster that he is. The demon king

With his power, he nearly destroyed Hyrule. But he was sealed away by Rauru.

And eventually the seal gets undone. That results in the Gloom leaking out and Link and Zelda going to investigate, thus beginning the events of the game.

Now how can I say for sure that this Ganondorf isn’t the same as the Calamity Ganon, or that Calamity Ganon is not just a manifestation of THIS Ganondorf’s hatred.

Well it’s actually quite simple.

It revolves around Demise.

Demise, the Demon king that made the cycle that always has his hatred follow the blood of the princess and spirit of the hero.

Whenever that incarnation of Hate appears to cause trouble, it’s because Link and Zelda are both around or are coming.

This is the case in each game, EXCEPT for Tears of the kingdom.

Ganondorf didn’t manifest, the DK Ganondorf was sealed away by another person for 10000 years. There was no hero to confront and fight this Ganondorf back then. In fact, Zelda only shows up in that past AFTER they met him in the depths, altering history and causing her appearance as a dragon in the game. Zelda and Link wondered into this Demon King’s whole agenda, his beef wasn’t with Link or Zelda. If it was, Ganondorf, who would have had the memories of his previous lives would have KNOWN Zelda and Link prior to meeting them. He would have probably gone after them first.

But he didn’t, this Ganondorf arrogantly fought Link not as a nemesis he clashed with before like with his other iterations, but as some sort of annoyance that his true enemy warned him about.

And there is an important piece of dialogue that was in breath of the wild.

“He has Given up on Reincarnation.”

This form is no longer human or any sort of mortal. Calamity Ganon was the incarnation of Demise’s hate and the evil being that the hero of hyrule and princess were bound to fight.

The Demon king Ganondorf and Calamity Ganon are not the same.

If we even want to go further. The evil miasma that DK Ganondorf is responsible for is called Gloom,

While the Dark miasma that Calamity Ganon makes is called Malice. Both treated as different things in the Zelda universe

But before you all say

“But Gale, in Botw, it mentions Calamity Ganon appeared 10,000 years ago and Demon King Ganondorf appeared back then.”

Both can be correct, because, Calamity Ganon, appeared before Ganondorf.

Totk took place 5-7 years after BOTW.

Meaning, that Calamity Ganon appeared and was defeated by the Link and Zelda of that time with the Shiekah tech.

It’s likely the fight decimated hyrule but was stated as a success since Ganon was defeated.

Then the Zonai appeared likely seeing the aftermath and brought their tech, resulting in the Refounding of hyrule.

Ganondorf appears and pulls his bulls*** and bam. The imprisoning war.

After Mineru vanishes there were no more Zonai to help with the tech and thus useless and likely the ancient sheikah tech was lost to time. Thus 100 years prior to botw, the rediscovery of that Sheikah tech. Which was less complicated so it was easier to rediscover.

And that tech was eventually scrapped After Calamity Ganon was defeated so the guardians and Beasts could not be taken advantage of again.

[eternazrael]

the ancient hero is NOT a gerudo/zonai.

i've seen this theory thrown around a lot and i feel it's time i threw my two cents into the ring.

i am personally under the belief that the ancient hero we see in tears of the kingdom is part of their own species that we haven't seen yet, and not a member of the zonai or gerudo like a lot of people seem to believe.

some people believe that the hero is just outright a reincarnation of ganondorf, while others believe that the hero is just straight up a gerudo. but then there's the OTHER crowd that believe that the hero is in fact a zonai. both of which i will attempt to debunk in this post.

first off, i want to address the whole "ancient hero is a gerudo/ganondorf" thing.

no.

there's no proof that the ancient hero is a gerudo. you could argue it's because of their red hair, but that's not the case.

by this logic, then characters like malon, groose, and din (specifically the one from the oracle games) would ALSO be gerudo. do you see where this theory begins to fall flat?

see the gerudo argument towards DIN could make sense. din represents power, which is the same piece of the triforce that ganondorf holds, and din is very clearly dark-skinned in oracle of seasons' cutscenes.

but then we see the hero's green fur, and assume that by proxy, they are ganondorf because ganondorf has green skin. that doesn't even make sense. how would you assume that the ancient hero is ganondorf just because they have red hair and green fur. but here's one thing i should bring up that debunks this entirely.

the ancient hero has BLUE eyes. ganondorf has YELLOW (and in some cases, red) eyes. but never blue.

considering demise's curse is still very much a key player in how the reincarnations of the main three are, given the links to the previous games, there would be no reason why the fuck this new ganondorf would suddenly become a good guy just to fight himself, and wielding the master sword nonetheless.

and now we reach the second part. the "ancient hero is a zonai" thing.

for a while, i agreed with people on this! i thought that they were from some offshoot branch of the zonai, but then i thought about it for a while, and everything fell apart relating to that theory.

first off, given what we've seen from the games, the zonai appear to be tall dragon-like goat people, with long torsos and short legs. the ancient hero, on the other hand, has a normal build like that of a hylian. (excuse the bad photoshops, but you get what im trying to say)

the zonai have more defined capridae features, while the ancient hero has more defined feline features, such as a lion-like tail, cat-like ears, and a feline snout. i should mention, given the tail, that zonai do not even have tails.

not only that, but the zonai we've seen have human feet, with five toes and all. the ancient hero, on the other hand, has more animalistic feet, with only four toes.

most capridae have a snout that angles inward, while most felines have a snout that angles outward.

given rauru and mineru are the only zonai that we have seen ingame, it's safe to assume that all other zonai follow this similar structure.

"but azzy! what if the hero was a distant offspring of sonia and rauru? they could very well be a zonai and hylian hybrid!"

i have a few things to say regarding that.

who's that standing across from the hero? the ancient princess. if we're going by what the tapestry is depicting, then she would have had the same skin tone, if not similiar, to that of sonia's. not to mention the dress, being near identical in color to that of sonia's dress.

so the ancient hero wouldn't even have been a zonai or descendant of rauru and sonia either.

not to mention the biology behind a zonai and human hybrid would NOT result in whatever the ancient hero is.

a human + dragon-goat-thing would NOT equal a cat-like creature.

i rest my case, your honor.

[gensnix]

I'm gonna combust if I don't get this out

Totk rant underneath

I know I did review and I put a small rant in it but I got more shit to say and yes I might be repeating things because I have the need to point shit out

The writing is bad a lot of characters I loved in botw have turned into stale biscuits

I can't take the fact that the game goes against its own lore multiple times

"to become a dragon is to lose oneself" K. why tf was Ganondorf still fighting us in dragon form.

Also Zelda knowing when to join the fight or the fact that she cries her memories into the ground and the fact that she's perfectly fine at the end. Zero repercussion

Link your arm is fucked beyond repair... jk lol it's fine

Everyone talks about the shrines and sheika towers but no one talks about the giant sheika pillars that surrounded Hyrule castle I miss them :(

Link would you please react to something besides food and horse points I know you can, especially in a place where you were completely alone

Nope I'm not accepting that the ancient hero is part Zonai cause 2 things. there were only two zonai left that I don't see Mineru having kids and wouldn't that mean that hero and princess would be related or why isn't it just the princess. That is NOT A ZONAI WTF IS THAT IT IT LOOKS NOTHING LIKE THE TAPESTRY mf got blue skin and clearly wearing boots in the pic and I know that Hyrule can be racist but if the zonai were sooo important why would they make him look like a hylian(gerudo?) it really just feels like they just put Zonai stuff everywhere without actually thinking

I like the idea that the three dragons were once Zonai and went through with swallowing secret stones but shouldn't they have three eyes? Idk that's just a nitpick In fact, who even made the secret stones we get no explanation why do they do that.

another nitpick I have is that they should not be speaking the same langue in the past. Zelda shouldn't be able to understand a word of what they're saying

If Zelda gets her light magic from Rauru and time from Sonia why in botw does the triforce appear when she seals Calamity Ganon Sonia is the one with a triforce tattoo and yet they don't even talk about the triforce once in this game and correct me if I'm wrong but don't Sonia and Rauru not know what the master sword is

This game is trying way to hard to convince me that the Zonai were good people. An entire race of good people doesn't die out like that. They also don't have robots that kill everything on site. or doors that drain the life out of people. Or not correct anyone when they are called gods. Or have mining facilities everywhere underground. Or have a gerudo cemetery near all their underground shit

I want this game to stop trying to be Ocarina of Time it's not working.

Why are the labyrinths different especially the one that had all the guardians down there. All of them are gone. Who even went there to get them was it Link. The Zonai researcher makes it seem their the first one to ever go there

I usually see this on twitter saying that the missing sheika tech was stated to be decommissioned in Purah's diaries. Except what the FUCK are you talking about like is it different in other languages or are twitter people just saw one person say it and decide to spread it around. Please ya gotta tell me I know how bad American Nintendo translates their games

also about the shrine of resurrection I see a lot of people say that the yiga took it down. but uh... the whole reason the yiga started is cause one of the old kings banded their tech shouldn't they y'know use some of it and at least fuse it in some designs I know they can

As much as I love them I don't think the yiga really fit in this since everything sheika related got pushed off a cliff

I love the depths but there really isn't much there Like I feel like there should be some sheika stuff down there all destroyed and stuff. cause a lot of chasms are where old sheika shrines were wouldn't it be cool to go down there and see an old sheika shrine in ruins

demon king??? Secret stone????

Idk why I seem to be the only one who wants to know where the actual thunder helm is. I looked high and low for it. I even wore the replica to see if I'd get a reaction and I did but it's only for the speech bubbles above the gerudo's heads Most of them being "that helm..." one being "I want a helm!" Even RIJU with the fucking "That helm..." GIRL WHERE IS THE ACTUAL ONE. This game makes me confused about which side quests are apparently actually canon. Did Link lose it?? Why would they react like that?

Yunobo I love you please please please use your shield why are you not using it

Yunobo why won't you question why Zelda gave you a mask that possessed you please my baby boy don't let people treat you like a doormat be mad you are allowed to be mad that you got possessed

I will never not be mad they sidelined Teba. I didn't spend all those years convincing my friends that Teba was a crazy bastard cause they don't talk to npc's like I do and then proven right in Age of Calamity for him to not even get a redesign. Hell, he's fucking bored as an elder and he doesn't say the injury he got while fighting Medoh was lethal he shouldn't be standing if it was. In botw his wife, best friend, and elder all talk about how Teba acts without thinking and has been like that since a child. Who are you what have you done to my crazy speaks his mind bastard. It's hard being one of so few Teba simps but hey at least I'm not a Sidon simp who had to go through with his marriage.

Saki didn't even want Tulin to be a warrior why is she so ok with him being a Sage

Once again cause this pisses me off the most. In her diary Zelda says that Link follows her everywhere in there attempt to rebuild Hyrule. Everyone and their mothers knows Zelda she's the princess. But they don't recognize Link..? Does she not talk about him to them. Strange since she was so happy to share about him with her ancestors. They should know him he carries the fucking master sword and is always with Zelda. Hell I believe that they live in the same house but I guess Link's not important to them. Even though he's the reason that Zelda was able to seal away the calamity away.

Why does all of Hyrule just accept she's the princess? You guys haven't served under a monarchy in 100 years. You guys are so skeptical of Link but not her... and you're not gonna question anything she does. Even if it seems evil cause yeah that was a plot point in game that was completely dropped. the evil zelda thing could have been great. Get people questioning shit but you know whatever I guess

I don't know how true it is but I saw someone on twitter say that botw and totk take place in different universes (not from the timeline who cares about that but from each other) as stated on an official Nintendo site, even showed a picture, but it was in Japanese so I wanted to try and find this website cause it's easy to be fooled but couldn't cause once again it's Japanese I can't understand Japanese and I don't remember where that tweet was. And at this point I am going to believe that proof or not cause what is this story I know Nintendo is gameplay over story but I have never been upset at a plot like this before.

[gracefireheart]

Gonna go into some TotK spoilers, specifically about what you get after you beat all the shrines. Scram if you don't wanna be spoiled 💃

'Aight, something has been plaguing me since I cleared all the shrines and got the Ancient Hero's Aspect: What race was this Ancient Hero?

'Cause I've seen some say they're a Zonai, or maybe one of Rauru and Sonia's kids that could be some sort of Zonai-Hylian hybrid, but I don't think so.

First off, ofc, we got only two Zonai characters for reference; Rauru and Mineru. If this Ancient Hero was a straight up Zonai, why are their ears so small + why aren't the upperside of their ears the same color as their hair? Why is their feet more animalistic than Rauru and Mineru's? And lastly, from the ig art and cutscenes I've seen of Rauru and Mineru, I haven't seen either with a tail while the Ancient Hero very clearly has one.

And with that all in mind, I also can't see the Ancient Hero as a Zonai-Hylian mix 'cause-- How the fuck could they get a tail from two parents with no tails???

The last thing I'm gonna mention- that I'm most likely not the only one that noticed- is that the Ancient Hero's hair color is basically the same as Ganondorf's. Idk what it means, if anything, but I guess it's worth mentioning.

Tldr; I want to know more about this Ancient Hero and wtf is up with them. Maybe there'll be a DLC about it, maybe not. We'll see, I guess 🚶

[wynnundead]

Okay here me out

What if we got a dlc for the very beginning of the timeline

Before skyward sword

Where we get to learn more about that time and maybe learn more about Hylia and the ancient heros aspect that Link can get if you complete all the shrines.

Cause I dont believe that the aspect is from Sonia's and Rauru's time, like it doesn't look like other zonai at all, its much more...its older and Zelda went to the past where she was needed but not Link and so that earlier Link wasn't needed either in that time.

I think it would be a great dlc or even a game on its own, seeing the original hero and Hylia defeating Demise and sending skyloft into the Sky..it would be a way to confirm alot of theories about even older zonai like the ruins we see in botw (they are clearly different from the stuff in the sky but we know that it all belongs to the zonai), it would maybe explain some stuff Zelda says in that beginning sequence of TOTK about why the early ancient royal family kept all this stuff hidden or even a theory as small as Mineru actually being impa from SS.

Like this kind if dlc along with a dlc about the dragons and there origin if thats even a thing at all (i think they are the 3 goddesses but i still want it the dlc)..this would be so awesome and then something in the depths as well, cause i cant help but think the gerudo/twili/interlopers are still connected and the depths are just the twilight realm/dark realm/lorule...its all the same..its just had different names..